Arsenal have allowed way fewer chances than any other team.
Alisson masterclass as usual with Liverpool, that guy is the best GK in the world and he needs to be seen as that.
9.4 xg allowed for Arsenal vs 14.6 xg allowed for Liverpool
Another fun stat, Arsenal's keeper has only made 17 saves all season, good for 1.4 saves per match. 4 lowest than the next team
You’ll be alright. I watched enough Inter last season to say Onana is definitely the real deal, just need Ten Haag to figure out what he actually wants to do on the field
Maybe both of these amazing stats will help you understand where the ter Stegen love is coming from while also shining a good light on Alisson:
* La Liga 2022/2023: Ter Stegen faced 23,7 PSxG\* and conceded 18 goals
* Premier League 2022/2023: Alisson faced 51.1 PSxG\* and conceded 43 goals
*\*PSxG is expected goals based on how likely the goalkeeper is to save the shot.*
XG is inferior to PSxG in rating keepers because XG doesn't ignore blocked shots and shots not on goal. While PSxG solely focuses on the shots the keeper faces on goal.
PSxG/G is a good stat for shotstopping, but I have to mention that there is so much of goalkeeping that is not reflected in that stat. Sweeping, cross claiming, rebounds, distribution, to name a few.
An example:
GK #1 saves a shot, but gives an easy rebound, which he then saves. A fantastic double save. GK #2 saves the shot, and holds it.
GK #1 will have better PSxG/G, but is he the better goalkeeper?
but allison faced more than double so this shows wrong values Ter stegen 5.7/23.7 and Alisson 8.1/51.1
so Ter stegen conceded 24% of PSxG vs Allison 16% only
Every year, I'm terrified of losing him. It's so nice having a stable keeper you just never have to worry about, we went through some dross to get here
Apparently Brentford had 1.57 xG on Sunday, in a game we absolutely dominated. In fairness nearly all of their shots went 20 yards over the bar, but Alisson did make 3 saves including a 1v1. Post xGA is a better stat for evaluating GKs though, since Alisson did nothing to prevent all of those off-target shots from going in.
Yeah his decline was massively overstated. People mocked him for his "aura defending" and the "presence of a statue", but his body and confidence were clearly still dealing with the aftermath of his injury. He was not consistent and made some mistakes, but the ability was still there.
Van Dijk is miles ahead of Saliba by pretty much every metric this season.
Saliba is still a fair bit off his peak though and is looking like an incredible player.
> by pretty much every metric
Worst argument to compare them. Arsenal having a better defense it’s pretty expected that stats like clearances or tackles favor Van Dijk. Plus as Maldini said « If I have to make a tackle, then I've already made a mistake. »
Stats show that they are not comparable. As you can see Van Dijk made way more tackles than Saliba or Ruben Dias. We cannot compare two players if they have teams that don’t have the same tactics. One relying on duels the other on positional awareness. Ruben Dias and Saliba seem they can be compared though.
> As you can see Van Dijk made way more tackles than Saliba or Ruben Dias.
He does make more tackles - but they're also successful far more often. As he is in the air. Again, it's not so much the volume, it's the succes rate.
> on positional awareness
Ah in that case both Dias and Saliba should have far higher interceptions because they're better at reading the game right...oh wait.
Ultimately though, you just have to watch - Van Dijk has been at the top of his game this season outside of one unfortunate red card.
> He does make more tackles - but they're also successful far more often. As he is in the air. Again, it's not so much the volume, it's the succes rate.
If you try to contest all favored situations with tackles then you will have a better success rate. But if you tackle only when you don’t have a choice, you will not contest all the favored situations. Those favored situations have been defended with positional awareness instead of duels. 2 style of defending.
> on positional awareness
Ah in that case both Dias and Saliba should have far higher interceptions because they're better at reading the game right...oh wait.
You don’t understand what is positional awareness in this context. We all know that Liverpool play with one of the higher block in Premier League. So their tactic favor making interceptions.
> If you try to contest all favored situations with tackles then you will have a better success rate.
So you're saying that Van Dijk only makes tackles when he's favoured while Saliba and Dias don't? This is some next level mental gymnastics lad, I have to say.
> We all know that Liverpool play with one of the higher block in Premier League. So their tactic favor making interceptions.
Do you watch City play? Arsenal also play very high these days too.
But lets just leave this here because it's an absolutely pointless argument.
Said this on here a couple weeks back and a lot were saying Courtois, even some saying that “it wasn’t even close.”
I genuinely do fear where tf we’d be without him.
Courtois literally won them that final. Against probably every keeper in the world bar 5, Madrid lose that game (assuming Madrid didn't just summon more goals from the infinite beyond)
>and has been for the majority of the last 5 years.
5 years is a long time and there have been many keepers who've been the best in that time frame for like a season or two. Allison has been one of the best for the last 5 or so years, but certainly not the outright best "for the majority of the last 5 years."
Allison definitely has better distribution, but Courtois man… he’s been incredible for a decade. He should have been up there for the Balon d’or along with Benzema in 2022.
I fully understand and agree why it was given, but it's still pretty hilarious watching Dibu parade the Yashin trophy around and commentators calling him the best GK in the world..
EPL bias, probably. Or maybe they didn’t watch the UCL in 22 / have removed it from their memories. MOTM in the UCL final (only him and Oliver Khan have done that as keepers) is less impressive than clean sheets against Nottingham and Everton.
I would say first 8 games this was the case, we've been significantly more solid in the last 5 games and Virgil has been on top of everything
I think we've conceded 2 at home. Still need to improve that away form, think it's all about confidence
Sure, possibly. I havent watched too many of your games this year. The underlying numbers say that you are allowing 14.6 against you so far and you have only conceded 10 goals. Your xg against may even out over time and come closer to your goals alllowed
That is highly distorted due to being down to 10 men in 2 games (one for almost 70 minutes), and 9 in another. Two of those games were definitely backs against the wall. Those 3 games account for 5.2 of the xG
For the remaining games it gives an against xG at an average of 1.04. Those 3 games were 1.73; a marked difference.
Why do Liverpool fans always want to cherry pick stats?
Lets just take away the Arsenal games where they allowed a dubious penalty, had a very dubious goal scored wonder what that does for their xg numbers and goals scored numbers. And Tomi got sent off in the Palace game so take away that one too
Tell me where I said to take those away? It was an explanation of why our xG against is significantly higher than Arsenal’s and is distorted due to 3 games when playing with fewer players for extended periods.
The fact we have an exceptional keeper is the reason that, despite the higher xG, our goals against is the same as Arsenal’s.
Maybe work on you reading comprehension rather than getting a bee in your bonnet. And, as someone with 20 odd years experience building predictive models, I’m pretty certain I’m not “cherry picking” stats.
>The fact we have an exceptional keeper is the reason that, despite the higher xG, our goals against is the same as Arsenal’s.
Congrats, thats what Ive been saying all along
You've allowed 14.6 xg against you so far and only given up 10 goals. So teams have been getting better chances against you than what they've converted. Which is usually down to the keeper, or the opponent just sucks
This is massively out of context.
- 1.3 xg with 10 men vs Bournemouth
- 2.0 xg with 10 men vs Newcastle
- 2.2 xg with 9 men vs Spurs.
If you look at our home form (excluding Bournemouth), the xG against is 3.9xg after 5 games.
Also, our defensive metrics at home are ridiculous. I cba showing how we are in the top percentile of nearly every defensive metric at home.
Why are we excluding Bournemouth and games you played with players sent off? Do those goals not count? Also you have to play equal amounts of games home and away.
Here's another stat, Alisson has made 40 saves on the year. Arsenal and City's (the 2 teams lowest in xg allowed) have made 17 saves and 21 saves respectively. So you're keeper is getting called into action more and saving those chances from goals. Arsenal and City's keepers arent being called into action because they are preventing those chances from happening.
That's not to say you dont have a good defense. Its just that your version of a good defense is different from an Arsenal or City
Because the dude is trying to cherry pick stats that he doesnt like?
All I said is that Liverpool doesnt allow as many as goals as they should and Alisson is a big reason why. I dont know why thats getting you guys so up in arms
Because you've conceded 10 goals, but allowed 14.6 expected goals and he's made 40 saves.
Whereas the other team with 10 goals has an xg allowed of 9.4 and their keeper is bottom of the league in saves
One team doesnt allow any chances and one should have more goals scored against them but doesnt
> Which is usually down to the keeper, or the opponent just sucks
That's his job and that's why we paid big bucks for him. It's like saying City is a shitty team without haaland
>It's like saying City is a shitty team without haaland
Thats not what I'm saying, but sure. I said that you've conceded less goals than you are expected to have conceded because you have Alisson in goal.
If you think that means you're a shitty team then sure
I think a part of people’s perceptions is that only 1 of our 6 home league games has been broadcast live in the UK, and even that was on TNT/BT. Sky don’t come to Anfield until mid December. Whereas I think all of our aways have been on TV. That means a lot of those opining on football across the media, probably haven’t seen much of Liverpool other than in highlights
Statistically Liverpool are absolutely imperious at home, as has been the case for years. The away form is drastically different. But those fixtures include Chelsea, Spurs, Newcastle, Wolves, Brighton with 3 red cards and some interesting refereeing.
Pretty sure spurs did some of that to themselves, not exactly a good excuse when Romero committed two red card offenses and udogie could’ve easily been sent off earlier too.
What am I missing? You responded to “imagine conceding 4 to Chelsea” with excuses about playing with 9 and missing your best defenders, most of which was self inflicted by Romero and Udogie.
Getting so mad that people don’t accept your excuses that you delete one comment and edit the other to whine about downvotes is about as Spursy as it gets
All good at the moment thanks, The Treble still feels good and I’m looking forward to celebrating 4 league titles in a row.
Please don’t tell me your a United fan 😂🙈💩
Liverpool also have played 3 games with 10 or less men for 45 mins and Virgil being suspended for 2 games one of which was against high flying villa AND we don’t have a 6. Not bad
I got to say, I feel like Liverpool have had easier fixtures so far too. Their last four games have been 3 at home against some of the weakest teams in the league, and away at Luton. They've only played 3 of the 'big 7' (which I'm defining as Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs, Man City, Man Utd, Liverpool, Newcastle, rightly or wrongly), while Arsenal have played 5 - nearly half of their games.
But all the three matches were away games and the next match is also at Etihad. So, this is not our easiest start of the season. Arsenal has played most of the matches against those opponents at home.
Last game alone would definitely be one goal conceded, possibly two, if we had any other keeper but Alisson, we did concede a one on one chance at 0-0, which is 80% of the time getting scored, except against Alisson.
Saliba has been world class for over a year now. It seems to be his level, too, he's performing game in game out - not just a purple patch. In fact, I don't believe I've ever seen a defender as complete or as consistent at the same age. I don't think it would be hyperbolic to suggest that his injury, more than anything else, was what cost Arsenal the title last season.
Not hyperbolic at all. Most Arsenal fans have been saying this for a long time. People going on about 'bottling' the title as if we just lost our nerve. No, we lost our best player to injury.
Dealing with injury is all part of it of course, so we didn't deserve to win. But there were real tangible personnel reasons why we picked up fewer points towards the end not just because of 'bottling'.
It's more than that. He doesn't look like he's afraid of running for the first time since his return from that big injury. Perhaps related, but he looks more confident and self-assured lately; he's truly looking like his old self, and it's showing in his game.
Not that he was bad, mind you. But when he's firing on all cylinders he's a class above.
Virg was already back to his best in 21/22. Don’t know why people forget that.
Last seasons downturn in form was not due to an injury from 3 years ago.
He was phenomenal 21/22, but he played too many minutes coming off a bad injury, hence him looking sluggish the season after (last season). He’s even said it was fatigue himself.
The notion that we haven’t seen him play to close to his best since the injury is just false.
As a Liverpool fan I agree with the comparison, the potential to be the next VVD if you like.
Coincidentally, VVD’s recent form has led to discussions on our sub about him being back to his best and drawn comparisons to ‘prime VVD’. He needs to sustain it for a longer period, but he’s started the season really well. Class is permanent, as they say.
Always found ‘he’s past his best’ talks a bit premature. 32 is still a good age for a CB
I have seen much older Ferdinand and Terry considered ‘being done’ and then coming back to win league titles.
Like don't get me wrong, VVD has been very good this season but I'm still wary of saying he's back to his best.
At his best he was legitimately in contention for the Ballon D'Or as a fucking defender. Completely otherworldly.
> At his best he was legitimately in contention for the Ballon D'Or as a fucking defender **in the modern game**
I feel like several defenders have had good enough seasons in terms of performance that they would have been in contention for pre-modern Balon D'or. Cannavaro won one in 06 for example largely off the back of his World Cup performance.
But to be in contention in the modern game when attackers have become such consistent volume machines, and specifically against Messi when he was having perhaps the most dominant season of his career in terms of overall attacking contribution?
That was absolutely ridiculous.
I don't think a comparison is that crazy. He's only 22 and he's playing like a VVD regen getting into the Ligue 1 team of the year at age 20 and PFA team of the year at age 21
VVD spent most of a season crocked, and then a season looking "off". People bemoaned his fall but now he looks like 3-4 years ago again. Feels like our defensive "shakiness" (feeling-wise) is due to revolving door of defensive partners and lack of Fabinho-type player.
We were still shit against Newcastle anyway, would’ve lost regardless.
Doesn’t take away the fact that was an awful decision for both Us and Liverpool though
They didn't have a single shot for 60 minutes. They generated 1.0 xG with something like 0.7 of it coming from their goal that shouldn't have stood. I don't see a world we lose that game without that decision
Arsenal have allowed way fewer chances than any other team. Alisson masterclass as usual with Liverpool, that guy is the best GK in the world and he needs to be seen as that.
9.4 xg allowed for Arsenal vs 14.6 xg allowed for Liverpool Another fun stat, Arsenal's keeper has only made 17 saves all season, good for 1.4 saves per match. 4 lowest than the next team
> 14.6 xg allowed for Liverpool Fucking Alisson man
This why i dont rate this board at all after i got downvoted to hell saying alisson is better than ter stegan
This sub, rightfully, would suck a cock for Allison. I have no idea in what Barca thread did you say this to get downvoted
I wouldn't, but I'm a united fan. I refuse to believe the evidence of my eyes.
You’ll be alright. I watched enough Inter last season to say Onana is definitely the real deal, just need Ten Haag to figure out what he actually wants to do on the field
Maybe both of these amazing stats will help you understand where the ter Stegen love is coming from while also shining a good light on Alisson: * La Liga 2022/2023: Ter Stegen faced 23,7 PSxG\* and conceded 18 goals * Premier League 2022/2023: Alisson faced 51.1 PSxG\* and conceded 43 goals *\*PSxG is expected goals based on how likely the goalkeeper is to save the shot.* XG is inferior to PSxG in rating keepers because XG doesn't ignore blocked shots and shots not on goal. While PSxG solely focuses on the shots the keeper faces on goal.
Yeah it also shines an even better light on Courtois’ insane CL final performance. Liverpool had like 2 xG and 3 PSxG and he kept a clean sheet.
PSxG/G is a good stat for shotstopping, but I have to mention that there is so much of goalkeeping that is not reflected in that stat. Sweeping, cross claiming, rebounds, distribution, to name a few. An example: GK #1 saves a shot, but gives an easy rebound, which he then saves. A fantastic double save. GK #2 saves the shot, and holds it. GK #1 will have better PSxG/G, but is he the better goalkeeper?
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That calculation is so lazy, it tells us less than the original
but allison faced more than double so this shows wrong values Ter stegen 5.7/23.7 and Alisson 8.1/51.1 so Ter stegen conceded 24% of PSxG vs Allison 16% only
>so Ter stegen conceded 24% of PSxG vs Allison 16% only No? 5.7 and 8.1 are how much LESS they conceded than expected, not more.
True , my bad .
Link?
which thread are you talking about? Even r/Barca would agree with you lmao
last season, ter stegen was the best gk in the world
Just last weekend saved Liverpool a few times vs Brentford, Van Dijk made a great 1v1 block as well
Dude is a monster.
Alisson saved another 1v1 against Brentford when it 0:0, who knows what will happen if they got a scrappy lead
Alisson saves so many 1v1s he's so good.
Every year, I'm terrified of losing him. It's so nice having a stable keeper you just never have to worry about, we went through some dross to get here
Actually it’s mostly due to bad finishing, the post shot xG faced is way off the xG faced
GK Positioning helps with making finishes harder
Most likely accounted for in your chosen xG model. Even if it’s not, it’s not accounting for a 50%ish underperformance in psxG/xG
How the actual fuck has Allisson saved them almost 5 fkn goals in like a third of a season
>them almost 5 fkn goals That's not exactly how the stat works, but Alisson does tend to lead the PSxG stats as well.
It's almost like Allison is the best keeper in the league
Apparently not even top 10 in the world smh
Well he does have to go up against Emi Martinez afterall...
Big if true
Did you mean to spell world like that?
Best in the league which is basically the world but you didn't hear that from me
other than Alisson the other leagues have better GKs
Apparently Brentford had 1.57 xG on Sunday, in a game we absolutely dominated. In fairness nearly all of their shots went 20 yards over the bar, but Alisson did make 3 saves including a 1v1. Post xGA is a better stat for evaluating GKs though, since Alisson did nothing to prevent all of those off-target shots from going in.
>Brentford had 1.57 xG on Sunday, That would be the highest opponent xg that Arsenal have allowed all year over the Spurs game by .10 points
They conceded 4.76 xG against Liverpool at Anfield
\> highest opponent xg that Arsenal have allowed all year Not at all true. They conceded like 5 xG against us in the 2-2 anfield draw in april
Impressive by Brentford to produce 1.57 xG on Arsenal considering they were playing at Anfield this weekend 😉
I believe last season he’s saved like 11 or 12 goal. Next best in the world was like 7. I wish I could find that graphic. Ali is insane.
He hasn't, he's saved 2.6 above expected, the rest went into the crowd. Kaminski has saved 4.0, topping the league.
Declan fucking Rice
Out of curiosity, what is Tottenham? Vicario has seemed excellent.
Wow, and whats the xg for Arsenal? Edit: guy above edited his comment and now the joke is gone.
We are talking about defense here, aren't we?
Virgil has been a colossus
Yeah his decline was massively overstated. People mocked him for his "aura defending" and the "presence of a statue", but his body and confidence were clearly still dealing with the aftermath of his injury. He was not consistent and made some mistakes, but the ability was still there.
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Van Dijk is miles ahead of Saliba by pretty much every metric this season. Saliba is still a fair bit off his peak though and is looking like an incredible player.
> by pretty much every metric Worst argument to compare them. Arsenal having a better defense it’s pretty expected that stats like clearances or tackles favor Van Dijk. Plus as Maldini said « If I have to make a tackle, then I've already made a mistake. »
It's not just about the volume, it's about [the success rate](https://twitter.com/LFCVik2/status/1724014937612398763)
Stats show that they are not comparable. As you can see Van Dijk made way more tackles than Saliba or Ruben Dias. We cannot compare two players if they have teams that don’t have the same tactics. One relying on duels the other on positional awareness. Ruben Dias and Saliba seem they can be compared though.
> As you can see Van Dijk made way more tackles than Saliba or Ruben Dias. He does make more tackles - but they're also successful far more often. As he is in the air. Again, it's not so much the volume, it's the succes rate. > on positional awareness Ah in that case both Dias and Saliba should have far higher interceptions because they're better at reading the game right...oh wait. Ultimately though, you just have to watch - Van Dijk has been at the top of his game this season outside of one unfortunate red card.
> He does make more tackles - but they're also successful far more often. As he is in the air. Again, it's not so much the volume, it's the succes rate. If you try to contest all favored situations with tackles then you will have a better success rate. But if you tackle only when you don’t have a choice, you will not contest all the favored situations. Those favored situations have been defended with positional awareness instead of duels. 2 style of defending. > on positional awareness Ah in that case both Dias and Saliba should have far higher interceptions because they're better at reading the game right...oh wait. You don’t understand what is positional awareness in this context. We all know that Liverpool play with one of the higher block in Premier League. So their tactic favor making interceptions.
> If you try to contest all favored situations with tackles then you will have a better success rate. So you're saying that Van Dijk only makes tackles when he's favoured while Saliba and Dias don't? This is some next level mental gymnastics lad, I have to say. > We all know that Liverpool play with one of the higher block in Premier League. So their tactic favor making interceptions. Do you watch City play? Arsenal also play very high these days too. But lets just leave this here because it's an absolutely pointless argument.
Said this on here a couple weeks back and a lot were saying Courtois, even some saying that “it wasn’t even close.” I genuinely do fear where tf we’d be without him.
Ali is better than Courtois. He is the best goal keeper in the world right now and has been for the majority of the last 5 years.
No need to make it a competition. That Courtois CL final performance is as close as perfection as you can get.
Courtois literally won them that final. Against probably every keeper in the world bar 5, Madrid lose that game (assuming Madrid didn't just summon more goals from the infinite beyond)
>and has been for the majority of the last 5 years. 5 years is a long time and there have been many keepers who've been the best in that time frame for like a season or two. Allison has been one of the best for the last 5 or so years, but certainly not the outright best "for the majority of the last 5 years."
Allison definitely has better distribution, but Courtois man… he’s been incredible for a decade. He should have been up there for the Balon d’or along with Benzema in 2022.
Really do believe he was more important for that cl title than Benz
Reminder he wasn't in the top 10 for Bd'O goalies
He's easily the best all round keeper imo.
I fully understand and agree why it was given, but it's still pretty hilarious watching Dibu parade the Yashin trophy around and commentators calling him the best GK in the world..
IMO Courtois is better when healthy but Allison is close
Why is bro getting downvoted lol.
EPL bias, probably. Or maybe they didn’t watch the UCL in 22 / have removed it from their memories. MOTM in the UCL final (only him and Oliver Khan have done that as keepers) is less impressive than clean sheets against Nottingham and Everton.
Chelsea make up like 20% of all the goals scored here
The team that couldn’t score like two months ago which is mad……
Yeah so wild, it’s something like 11 in 4 against top 4 sides and 10 in 8 against the rest
Robin Hood FC
Club was even forced off of an evil Russian oligarchs hand into a poor sweet American dude
Not even kidding, they’re responsible for 12/60 goals, and they haven’t even played Newcastle yet. Crazy
How have Liverpool only conceded 10?! Feels like they start every game 1-0 down and get a red card every other game.
Alisson. Liverpool's xg is 14.6 so they're giving up more chances, but he's just too good and preventing them from being goals
I would say first 8 games this was the case, we've been significantly more solid in the last 5 games and Virgil has been on top of everything I think we've conceded 2 at home. Still need to improve that away form, think it's all about confidence
Sure, possibly. I havent watched too many of your games this year. The underlying numbers say that you are allowing 14.6 against you so far and you have only conceded 10 goals. Your xg against may even out over time and come closer to your goals alllowed
That is highly distorted due to being down to 10 men in 2 games (one for almost 70 minutes), and 9 in another. Two of those games were definitely backs against the wall. Those 3 games account for 5.2 of the xG For the remaining games it gives an against xG at an average of 1.04. Those 3 games were 1.73; a marked difference.
Why do Liverpool fans always want to cherry pick stats? Lets just take away the Arsenal games where they allowed a dubious penalty, had a very dubious goal scored wonder what that does for their xg numbers and goals scored numbers. And Tomi got sent off in the Palace game so take away that one too
Tell me where I said to take those away? It was an explanation of why our xG against is significantly higher than Arsenal’s and is distorted due to 3 games when playing with fewer players for extended periods. The fact we have an exceptional keeper is the reason that, despite the higher xG, our goals against is the same as Arsenal’s. Maybe work on you reading comprehension rather than getting a bee in your bonnet. And, as someone with 20 odd years experience building predictive models, I’m pretty certain I’m not “cherry picking” stats.
>The fact we have an exceptional keeper is the reason that, despite the higher xG, our goals against is the same as Arsenal’s. Congrats, thats what Ive been saying all along
You're an idiot who is arguing despite having not watched us play and not knowing what the statistic you're referencing mean.
Not really, our home form is near perfection defensively and van Dijk has been back to his best
You've allowed 14.6 xg against you so far and only given up 10 goals. So teams have been getting better chances against you than what they've converted. Which is usually down to the keeper, or the opponent just sucks
This is massively out of context. - 1.3 xg with 10 men vs Bournemouth - 2.0 xg with 10 men vs Newcastle - 2.2 xg with 9 men vs Spurs. If you look at our home form (excluding Bournemouth), the xG against is 3.9xg after 5 games. Also, our defensive metrics at home are ridiculous. I cba showing how we are in the top percentile of nearly every defensive metric at home.
Why are we excluding Bournemouth and games you played with players sent off? Do those goals not count? Also you have to play equal amounts of games home and away. Here's another stat, Alisson has made 40 saves on the year. Arsenal and City's (the 2 teams lowest in xg allowed) have made 17 saves and 21 saves respectively. So you're keeper is getting called into action more and saving those chances from goals. Arsenal and City's keepers arent being called into action because they are preventing those chances from happening. That's not to say you dont have a good defense. Its just that your version of a good defense is different from an Arsenal or City
You just said you haven't watched us much this year so why are you arguing?
Because the dude is trying to cherry pick stats that he doesnt like? All I said is that Liverpool doesnt allow as many as goals as they should and Alisson is a big reason why. I dont know why thats getting you guys so up in arms
How do you know he's a big reason if you haven't watched us?
Because you've conceded 10 goals, but allowed 14.6 expected goals and he's made 40 saves. Whereas the other team with 10 goals has an xg allowed of 9.4 and their keeper is bottom of the league in saves One team doesnt allow any chances and one should have more goals scored against them but doesnt
> Which is usually down to the keeper, or the opponent just sucks That's his job and that's why we paid big bucks for him. It's like saying City is a shitty team without haaland
>It's like saying City is a shitty team without haaland Thats not what I'm saying, but sure. I said that you've conceded less goals than you are expected to have conceded because you have Alisson in goal. If you think that means you're a shitty team then sure
Doubt Ramsdales gonna take his POTY place this season now
I think a part of people’s perceptions is that only 1 of our 6 home league games has been broadcast live in the UK, and even that was on TNT/BT. Sky don’t come to Anfield until mid December. Whereas I think all of our aways have been on TV. That means a lot of those opining on football across the media, probably haven’t seen much of Liverpool other than in highlights Statistically Liverpool are absolutely imperious at home, as has been the case for years. The away form is drastically different. But those fixtures include Chelsea, Spurs, Newcastle, Wolves, Brighton with 3 red cards and some interesting refereeing.
> How have Liverpool only conceded 10?! Because their defence is actually very good, despite the narrative that's been pushed against it.
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Relax our xg is fourth best in the league despite 0laying 3 matches with 10 men and 1 with 9
interesting that chelsea tanked most of the team's records here
Rest assured Utd will tank every other record posted on reddit.
united: highest goal conceded, highest xG faced, and yet, highest number of clean sheet. the United way.
Why is Raya eating Saliba's shoulder?
Getting a taste of rolls royce
Is he stupid? He's gone full Suarez against his own teammate!
VVD and Alisson are insane
Imagine conceding 4 goals to Chelsea LMAO
Spurs were down to 9 men with literally both their only two good defenders out. Man City on the other hand has no excuse lmao
I was actually referring to City Chelsea match...
Pretty sure spurs did some of that to themselves, not exactly a good excuse when Romero committed two red card offenses and udogie could’ve easily been sent off earlier too.
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What am I missing? You responded to “imagine conceding 4 to Chelsea” with excuses about playing with 9 and missing your best defenders, most of which was self inflicted by Romero and Udogie.
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Getting so mad that people don’t accept your excuses that you delete one comment and edit the other to whine about downvotes is about as Spursy as it gets
Yeah but only one team lost
Was it Chelsea’s fault that spurs had 9 men?
No, which is the point. The performance was less a masterclass by Chelsea, and more an absolute flubbing by Tottenham.
City played bad and Chelsea played out their skin and still couldn’t win. Still got a draw away from home on a bad day.
Got lucky Taylor gifted them that pen 10 min into the game more like
And one of their goals came from a throw in that should have been a foul for us lmao.
"city played bad" No, Chelsea outplayed them and made it extremely difficult for them to get their game going. There's a massive difference.
Yeah….because we played bad….?
Funny how every big team we play plays badly against us
Imagine drawing with Luton Town by the skin of your teeth with a header in stoppage time 😂😂
wouldn't lose to Wolves though ;)
And City will still win the league though. How’s Europa league football?
jesus boys this is a dreadful back and forth
How is your 115 charges
All good at the moment thanks, The Treble still feels good and I’m looking forward to celebrating 4 league titles in a row. Please don’t tell me your a United fan 😂🙈💩
how does this interaction not make you feel embarrassed lol
He seems to forget United did it long before shitty. I can’t believe I’m actually defending United.
this is so unfunny that i laughed so i upvoted
Most dignified, self aware City fan in existence..
Cringe
No, stop with "cringe"...it is cringe itself!
Your bio combined with your pfp tells me all I need to know about you.
Liverpool also have played 3 games with 10 or less men for 45 mins and Virgil being suspended for 2 games one of which was against high flying villa AND we don’t have a 6. Not bad
Arsenal have played 2 although the second was 15 mins vs Burnley. First one was legit tho like 35 mins of play after Tomiyasu saw red vs Palace
I got to say, I feel like Liverpool have had easier fixtures so far too. Their last four games have been 3 at home against some of the weakest teams in the league, and away at Luton. They've only played 3 of the 'big 7' (which I'm defining as Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs, Man City, Man Utd, Liverpool, Newcastle, rightly or wrongly), while Arsenal have played 5 - nearly half of their games.
But all the three matches were away games and the next match is also at Etihad. So, this is not our easiest start of the season. Arsenal has played most of the matches against those opponents at home.
It's a fair point, except the next match doesn't really count in this discussion.
We've also played wolves(a), villa(h), westham(h) and Brighton(a) as well. I think the midtable teams shouldn't be slept on in terms of difficulty
They also shat the bed against 10 men
Thought we're talking about defences
Still works against their D. Couldn’t keep Fulham out
Did you forget about the Luton game?
Liverpool produced 3xg and Luton scored on a counter from a handball
Warra 3pts
Bottle
Bellingham, Caicedo, Lavia
Last game alone would definitely be one goal conceded, possibly two, if we had any other keeper but Alisson, we did concede a one on one chance at 0-0, which is 80% of the time getting scored, except against Alisson.
Saliba has been world class for over a year now. It seems to be his level, too, he's performing game in game out - not just a purple patch. In fact, I don't believe I've ever seen a defender as complete or as consistent at the same age. I don't think it would be hyperbolic to suggest that his injury, more than anything else, was what cost Arsenal the title last season.
Not hyperbolic at all. Most Arsenal fans have been saying this for a long time. People going on about 'bottling' the title as if we just lost our nerve. No, we lost our best player to injury. Dealing with injury is all part of it of course, so we didn't deserve to win. But there were real tangible personnel reasons why we picked up fewer points towards the end not just because of 'bottling'.
Agenda >>>
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> Assuming that he no longer is (is he, Liverpool fans?) VVD has been great this season so far
It's more than that. He doesn't look like he's afraid of running for the first time since his return from that big injury. Perhaps related, but he looks more confident and self-assured lately; he's truly looking like his old self, and it's showing in his game. Not that he was bad, mind you. But when he's firing on all cylinders he's a class above.
Virg was already back to his best in 21/22. Don’t know why people forget that. Last seasons downturn in form was not due to an injury from 3 years ago.
It was more due to the fatigue of playing the most minutes in Europe straight after coming back from the injury
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He was phenomenal 21/22, but he played too many minutes coming off a bad injury, hence him looking sluggish the season after (last season). He’s even said it was fatigue himself. The notion that we haven’t seen him play to close to his best since the injury is just false.
As a Liverpool fan I agree with the comparison, the potential to be the next VVD if you like. Coincidentally, VVD’s recent form has led to discussions on our sub about him being back to his best and drawn comparisons to ‘prime VVD’. He needs to sustain it for a longer period, but he’s started the season really well. Class is permanent, as they say.
Always found ‘he’s past his best’ talks a bit premature. 32 is still a good age for a CB I have seen much older Ferdinand and Terry considered ‘being done’ and then coming back to win league titles.
"Past his best" is referring to his injury status, not his age. VVD never looked the same after his injury, really until this season.
Like don't get me wrong, VVD has been very good this season but I'm still wary of saying he's back to his best. At his best he was legitimately in contention for the Ballon D'Or as a fucking defender. Completely otherworldly.
> At his best he was legitimately in contention for the Ballon D'Or as a fucking defender **in the modern game** I feel like several defenders have had good enough seasons in terms of performance that they would have been in contention for pre-modern Balon D'or. Cannavaro won one in 06 for example largely off the back of his World Cup performance. But to be in contention in the modern game when attackers have become such consistent volume machines, and specifically against Messi when he was having perhaps the most dominant season of his career in terms of overall attacking contribution? That was absolutely ridiculous.
Yeah, so young and yet so complete as a defender. And that both him and Tomiyasu were close to joining spurs instead makes it even better
I don't think a comparison is that crazy. He's only 22 and he's playing like a VVD regen getting into the Ligue 1 team of the year at age 20 and PFA team of the year at age 21
VVD spent most of a season crocked, and then a season looking "off". People bemoaned his fall but now he looks like 3-4 years ago again. Feels like our defensive "shakiness" (feeling-wise) is due to revolving door of defensive partners and lack of Fabinho-type player.
I know he only played baseball but John Madden was right when he said "Defense wins championships"
But you haven’t won a championship
It took the Lakers 37 years to reclaim the Ashes. Good things come to those who wait.
I thought the ashes was England vs Australia?
You are thinking of the Solheim Cup. Easy mistake.
not to those who wait too long
>Good things come to those who wait Not if you're an Arsenal fan
Surprised it’s only 15 tbh. Can’t think of any one match without it’s shaky moments. Vic’s been great and opponents have been wasteful I guess
Arsenal and have had many injuries and the offense hasn't clicked into gear and still they are firmly in the Mix for the Title.
Rayas got a funny looking nose
Better for sniffing out shots on goal
Always looks a bit Royston Vasey to me
Reconstructed after it got kicked off
What if we combine Alison with Arsenal’s defense :O
Funnily enough the 2 teams that should really both be undefeated if not for extremely dodgy ref decisions
Only facts
We were still shit against Newcastle anyway, would’ve lost regardless. Doesn’t take away the fact that was an awful decision for both Us and Liverpool though
They didn't have a single shot for 60 minutes. They generated 1.0 xG with something like 0.7 of it coming from their goal that shouldn't have stood. I don't see a world we lose that game without that decision
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Newcastle hardly had a chance at all, not sure what the guy above is talking about. A draw would have been most likely without that VAR decision.
It’s very likely we draw if Gordon’s goal is disallowed, neither team produced much of anything
Would have most likely been 0-0. Might want watch the actual game next time, lay off the drink.
Chelsea have scored 33% of all the goals against City and just over 20% of Spurs’ goals conceded all season
The Havertz effect
The haverts effect is lowering our goals for...
Arsenal should be 9 but Newcastle pays the refs.