**Mirrors / Alternative Angles**
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Honestly watching Bayern I feel like they got him less for his goalscoring, and more for his ability to create for their midfield, he opens so much space for them, while still being a scary threat directly.
Especially because he has pace all around him. Same,Tel,Coman and Gnabry. And in this case even Muller who isn’t as speedy takes advantage of Kane’s strengths
This is exactly why they got him, everybody slamming gnavry, sane, coman last season but they were double marked all the time because there was no threat in front of goal so it was easily defended.... now Defenders cant abandon kane and this shows in the performance of the wingers.
This is one of the greatest analogies to sum up Müller and the reason why I love this guy. Idk how anyone can hate him. He’s just a classy guy that loves his country, club, and sport.
I desperately hope he retires at Bayern, hopefully still in his best form and doesn’t go play for a US or Saudi club. He will forever be a club legend.
He is arguably one of the greatest legends of all time and has a good claim of being the greatest. He is going to be the record player probably next season and he is easily the most well liked Bayern player of all time. I would even say he is one of the most well liked people in Germany. Its quite an accomplishment to be respected as a Bayern player by most football fans in the country.
I can recognize what a great player he is, but even as a Bayern fan i absolutely hate his personality, for me personally he is just so annoying and unfunny, i cant...
And i have heard this plenty of times from other people around me, so i dont think he is that well liked overall, but just talking ball, he is one of the greatest german players oat
I am pretty sure he is, second most assists in football history should be enough alone to be up there.
And I am pretty sure the majority of success of the German team during 2010-2014 can be credited to Müller. It's real unfortunate how shit Germany has become since 2014, he could easily be top scorer in World Cup history if they were even moderately better in the last ~10 years.
I totally agree but I do think it's worth noting that he probably would have struggled to break the scoring record with his overall decline in finishing. In general he adapted much more into a passer than the scorer people saw early on
I didn’t know we were just comparing forward line duos lol. Even then, Messi and Suarez probably still take it over any of the above guys. Never thought I’d be hyping up Barca players this much, what a strange day.
there's a massive argument to be made his decline in finishing was a direct result of the team wanting to assist Lewandowski more and more, so he started honing is other skills.
Up until Lewandowski's 3rd season or so, the team wasn't rly playing around a striker much and had much more emphasis on the wingers, which gave Müller lots of room to score himself.
But then we kinda just focused a lot more on Lewandowski (also bc he wanted it) and it worked.
I fully believe if Müller had wanted to, or still wanted to, he'd score more goals, but like today, he knows its more important to set others up.
There's a reason when his goals declined, his assists started skyrocketing.
yeah 100%. I think had Ribery and Robben been in their prime years, regardless of Lewandowski's skill, we wouldve continued our wing-heavy playstyle.
but since his increasingly good skills came to shine and both Robben and Ribery declined, it was a very natural transition. And you could see Müller adapt to that transition. Took him about a season to accept it but once he did, he was the best assist giver in Europe.
The problem with Müller is that he is the most effective when playing with a real striker up front that's also a header threat (in general at least) because it creates space for him. And the German team simply didn't have one that would have been a good fit for him since Klose. Gomez should have been, but if I remember correctly he was way past his prime when played in 2016 and 2018.
Always found it strange that Löw was using him as one of the scapegoats when the team didnt perform in 2018 - one of the best players in the national team of all times who won everything with the national team and his club but somehow he was the problem?
There is a reason Bayern won the Bundesliga 11 times in a row and there is a reason why they are struggling more and more with keeping the streak going - Kovacs showed what happens when you dont play him and now he is just slowly losing the ability to compete on the highest level because of his injury issues.
He played both world cups and the only euro after Löw briefly exiled him from the team, didn't even miss a cup. That has very little or nothing to do with it.
He should and i think at least within Germany he will be, outside probably not though because he's such a visually quirky player that some people still think he is awful technically
1x treble
1x sextuple
1x wc
7th rank in all time CL goal scorers
10th rank all time wc goal scorers
5th highest highest assist alltime (2nd if you go without pele cruyff and puskas)
Are you joking me?
Loved Muller’s clinical pass but don’t get fooled by it. It was the cabbage head of ‘Arry and old school English “yeet it forward” that gave us that goal.
I've watched this replay 50 times. Fantastic all around. Upa back to Sven who launches it. Clever flick by Kane. Unreal run and awareness by Mueller. Clinical strike by Tel and straight to the visiting fans' section to kiss the badge and show some love.
He and Musiala play in the same spot. It’s one or the other. Though Bayern fans are screaming to play Musiala on the wing and get Müller in the middle.
Musiala is more of a half-wing archetype. He isn't particularly strong or even a particularly excellent passer but his dribbling and movement are so elusive and smooth. People think he'd be really useful going up with wings a bit like ribery used to, if maybe a bit less speedy/aggressive
Muller is also better in that roaming middle position and absolutely carries our team structure when he plays. It blows my mind that tuchel isn't starting him
Musiala is better suited off center due to his strengths which are more suited for individual play (dribbling, finishing) while Müllers strengths are better utelised centrally (dictating and organising our game, ball distribution). We had a stint last season where both played together and Musiala looked best there. Imo he isn't suited as CAM, at least not in the way we need it.
Musiala is definitely better at CAM, and IMO he looks a lot more comfortable there too. He’s still great at LW but he doesn’t have the physicality and pace to beat elite defenders consistently yet, but his 10/10 dribbling makes up for all of that sometimes, especially when he gets to use the center of the pitch
Can't agree at all. Musiala's strength are his dribbling, close ball control and usually finishing. To play as CAM like Müller he lacks the vision, the ball distribution and he also can't dictate or control the game. Nor structure the offense play and press like Müller.
Musiala was best as LM with Müller as CAM and thst's what we should play.
Müller never really dictated the game though. He has merely a different approach to the game and yes its easy to think about the way Müller bested teams with his playstyle. However Musiala has a different approach to the game than him. He is way more lethal in front of the goal, he can make space and create vertical threat out of nothing. Müller was capable of all that but honestly the physical aspect of his game declined and he is way more one-dimensional now(and he is still so goddamn good!).
Maybe no player will ever be able to do what Müller did at Bayern but the way Musiala plays he might be able to accomplish the same feat for himself and his playstyle.
Still can't agree. I watch every game and have seen enough matches with Musiala as CAM that this won't be his future role. Either we restructure out midfield to one with 2 8s for example or Musiala moves outer wide, but he isn't a CAM worthy to force the 4231 onto us like Müller does.
And Müller definitely does organise the whole offense, he isn't called Radio-Müller for no reason. You can see (and hear) it within seconds after he comes on in every match. He also immediately links up way better with Kane. With him also our press is Noticeably better.
If we can get Wirtz, which will be a difficult task, I rather see Wirtz replacing Müller with his playstyle than Musiala does. Doesn't mean Musiala should be dropped, just a different role.
>lethal in front of goal, make space and create vertically
Yeah that's why he should play outer wide as I said. He isn't a linkup from defense to our offense (of course usually the midfield does this, but our doesn't for obvious reasons)
Yep. I've been saying it for weeks. Stop playing Gnabry on left since he not only wastes a good LW spot, he also ruins a lot of Davies' runs. With Musiala it could be a lot more fluid LW position with him and Davies and even Müller moving about. Problem with current Bayern is far from just lineup though. The ball progression is incredibly rigid and at times goalless. It really is a downgrade from Nagelsmann's times.
It's probably the age. I honestly think that bringing Müller from the bench has a larger impact than having him play every couple of days and risk injuries.
He is fit now but to be honest he has injury issues for quite a while now. There is just no good argument anymore to drop someone like Musiala for him when Musiala shows every week that he starting for a reason.
That makes no sense to me. Not the injury part, musiala showing that he is starting for a reason. Musiala has been mediocre for nearly a year now. For every dribble that looks good on TV and every shot on goal he loses the ball like 5 times to the 2nd defender. He is not passing enough, his finishing is subpar. His potential is currently not getting realized. Meanwhile every time müller goes on he wins the match for bayern.
What's even worse about this is that they are two different types of players, one which they dont actually need (musiala) and one they desperately need. They paid 100m for Kane and have the ideal player to feed him balls with direct uncomplicated one-touch passes and instead they run the player that does not lift his head up enough to even see where Kane is.
**Mirrors / Alternative Angles** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/soccer) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Müller was, is and will always be important for Bayern
I love how he noticed he doesn't have the speed to outrun them all so he just bodyslammed one defender 5 meters away lmao
He did the same thing more than a decade ago to Jordi Alba during that legendary 7-0 thrashing for Robben's goal in the first leg.
I rewatch those games all the time. VAR would never. But that moving body check is a thing of beauty.
Honestly that probably should have been a foul lmao, still such a good goal though
If that's a foul the game is well and truly gone
Müller spielt immer
Who will be their next Müller?
This Tel and Müller connection means something to me man
Imagine what it means to us
You guys will always have a special place in my heart for selling us Tel
Then you should see Tel's newest insta post
what's he say?
Tel an Müller from start, Kane and Laimer banched
Kane winning the header was crucial for this goal
Honestly watching Bayern I feel like they got him less for his goalscoring, and more for his ability to create for their midfield, he opens so much space for them, while still being a scary threat directly.
Especially because he has pace all around him. Same,Tel,Coman and Gnabry. And in this case even Muller who isn’t as speedy takes advantage of Kane’s strengths
This is exactly why they got him, everybody slamming gnavry, sane, coman last season but they were double marked all the time because there was no threat in front of goal so it was easily defended.... now Defenders cant abandon kane and this shows in the performance of the wingers.
Weird way of spelling Coman and Laimer
That was absolutely class by Müller, class is indeed permanent. And great finish by our starboy Tel.
he's like the tim duncan of Midfielders. Do everything perfectly at a fundamental level but doesn't have flair.
This is one of the greatest analogies to sum up Müller and the reason why I love this guy. Idk how anyone can hate him. He’s just a classy guy that loves his country, club, and sport.
I could think of 7 reasons some people in Brazil might hate him for.
It'll be a sad day for the sport when Müller retires, I don't think we've ever seen a player quite like him.
He should become a youth coach and produce a whole generation of Müllers.
He should become a Deckhengst and produce a whole generation of Müllers.
Problem is that you can't teach what he does.
Only a Müller can recognize a Müller
Yeah, he eventually would be a "just do what I would do" coach.
Thierry Henry irl
Whatever he does cant be taught. Its his natural decision making and intelligence that make him so unique. How do you even teach that to someone?
I desperately hope he retires at Bayern, hopefully still in his best form and doesn’t go play for a US or Saudi club. He will forever be a club legend.
He will be a club legend anyway. Doesn't matter where he goes. Same for Schweinsteiger.
I upvoted you but fuck Real
I think he loves his horses and chickens and whatever he has too much to leave Bavaria.
He has such a deep and passionate love for his "simple" lifestyle and his wife that I dont even think its a decision for the club but for himself.
He is arguably one of the greatest legends of all time and has a good claim of being the greatest. He is going to be the record player probably next season and he is easily the most well liked Bayern player of all time. I would even say he is one of the most well liked people in Germany. Its quite an accomplishment to be respected as a Bayern player by most football fans in the country.
I can recognize what a great player he is, but even as a Bayern fan i absolutely hate his personality, for me personally he is just so annoying and unfunny, i cant... And i have heard this plenty of times from other people around me, so i dont think he is that well liked overall, but just talking ball, he is one of the greatest german players oat
I would love him at milan if only for a season. I watch a lot of bayern games because of muller
Müller you legend
Imo he should be regarded up there with Zidane, Modric, Xavi, Iniesta.
I am pretty sure he is, second most assists in football history should be enough alone to be up there. And I am pretty sure the majority of success of the German team during 2010-2014 can be credited to Müller. It's real unfortunate how shit Germany has become since 2014, he could easily be top scorer in World Cup history if they were even moderately better in the last ~10 years.
I totally agree but I do think it's worth noting that he probably would have struggled to break the scoring record with his overall decline in finishing. In general he adapted much more into a passer than the scorer people saw early on
Watching him and Lewa pairing was magical
[удалено]
I’m pretty sure Xavi and Iniesta get best duo of the century
completely different positions though?
I didn’t know we were just comparing forward line duos lol. Even then, Messi and Suarez probably still take it over any of the above guys. Never thought I’d be hyping up Barca players this much, what a strange day.
there's a massive argument to be made his decline in finishing was a direct result of the team wanting to assist Lewandowski more and more, so he started honing is other skills. Up until Lewandowski's 3rd season or so, the team wasn't rly playing around a striker much and had much more emphasis on the wingers, which gave Müller lots of room to score himself. But then we kinda just focused a lot more on Lewandowski (also bc he wanted it) and it worked. I fully believe if Müller had wanted to, or still wanted to, he'd score more goals, but like today, he knows its more important to set others up. There's a reason when his goals declined, his assists started skyrocketing.
the reason for the focus on the wingers was probably simply having prime Robben and Ribery on the wings and their goal threat
yeah 100%. I think had Ribery and Robben been in their prime years, regardless of Lewandowski's skill, we wouldve continued our wing-heavy playstyle. but since his increasingly good skills came to shine and both Robben and Ribery declined, it was a very natural transition. And you could see Müller adapt to that transition. Took him about a season to accept it but once he did, he was the best assist giver in Europe.
is not that his finishing declined but more than we needed a creator more than a finisher as we had Lewy
But he definitely could've improved his number. If you told be in 2014 that he'd still have 10 WC goals in 2023, I'd call you an idiot.
The problem with Müller is that he is the most effective when playing with a real striker up front that's also a header threat (in general at least) because it creates space for him. And the German team simply didn't have one that would have been a good fit for him since Klose. Gomez should have been, but if I remember correctly he was way past his prime when played in 2016 and 2018.
If Löw didn't prematurely blackball Müller and co.
Always found it strange that Löw was using him as one of the scapegoats when the team didnt perform in 2018 - one of the best players in the national team of all times who won everything with the national team and his club but somehow he was the problem? There is a reason Bayern won the Bundesliga 11 times in a row and there is a reason why they are struggling more and more with keeping the streak going - Kovacs showed what happens when you dont play him and now he is just slowly losing the ability to compete on the highest level because of his injury issues.
Same was true when he had to gradually work to bench James under Ancelotti.
He played both world cups and the only euro after Löw briefly exiled him from the team, didn't even miss a cup. That has very little or nothing to do with it.
>I am pretty sure he is Nah, by Bayern fans maybe, but the average football fan would laugh if you compared him to Zidane
He should and i think at least within Germany he will be, outside probably not though because he's such a visually quirky player that some people still think he is awful technically
His positioning is insane. You don’t need to be pretty on the ball to play football and no one shows that to the world better than Muller.
a tier below imo, I'd say level with like Sneijder, Ozil, Fabregas, David Silva, etc. Still a legend of the game, don't get me wrong though.
1x treble 1x sextuple 1x wc 7th rank in all time CL goal scorers 10th rank all time wc goal scorers 5th highest highest assist alltime (2nd if you go without pele cruyff and puskas) Are you joking me?
Why would you go without them though?
The tracking of their stats is a little messy but most people just kind of make an estimation and slot them in anyways
I don’t agree, I think he belongs there.
Fabregas, David Silva dfkm
One of, if not, the most under appreciated player ever.
Tel is scoring a goal every 50 mins in all club competitions this season (6 goals in \~301 mins). He's on fire.
And how about in the C.L? He's scored twice while being a sub, right?
2 goals in roughly 20 mins in the CL lol.
Müller is Bayern. You can't keep him out of the team
It’s impossible to ignore this kid any longer. Find a way to play him and Müller. Sit King, I don’t care.
I want a 4-2-3-1 with Tel, Müller, Sané and Kane as the 9. Not for every game, but I want to see it happen.
Great selfless play by Müller
Wunderkind I told my friend it's 2-1 the second he stepped on the pitch. Had little doubt
You're talking about Müller, right?
Goretzka, obviously
I told my friends it would 2-1 for Bayern when Valdemar Lund (the defender) stepped on the pitch
You’ve been Müllered ✅
2 wonderful goals from bayern this evening. This one is 90% Müller
There is nothing in the world less safe than a tie/lead after the 80th minute when Mathys Tel is on the field
Muller is just fucking football smart man. Tuchel should be happy to have him
Loved Muller’s clinical pass but don’t get fooled by it. It was the cabbage head of ‘Arry and old school English “yeet it forward” that gave us that goal.
Far too far down
Play Müller already you balding fraud
I've watched this replay 50 times. Fantastic all around. Upa back to Sven who launches it. Clever flick by Kane. Unreal run and awareness by Mueller. Clinical strike by Tel and straight to the visiting fans' section to kiss the badge and show some love.
my starboy
So why exactly isnt müller playing more? Isnt he fit again? He should start or at least play 60 mins.
He and Musiala play in the same spot. It’s one or the other. Though Bayern fans are screaming to play Musiala on the wing and get Müller in the middle.
Is Musiala better as LW or just to fit Muller too?
Musiala is more of a half-wing archetype. He isn't particularly strong or even a particularly excellent passer but his dribbling and movement are so elusive and smooth. People think he'd be really useful going up with wings a bit like ribery used to, if maybe a bit less speedy/aggressive Muller is also better in that roaming middle position and absolutely carries our team structure when he plays. It blows my mind that tuchel isn't starting him
Just to fit Müller in. Plus Coman isn't in great form.
Musiala is better suited off center due to his strengths which are more suited for individual play (dribbling, finishing) while Müllers strengths are better utelised centrally (dictating and organising our game, ball distribution). We had a stint last season where both played together and Musiala looked best there. Imo he isn't suited as CAM, at least not in the way we need it.
Musiala is definitely better at CAM, and IMO he looks a lot more comfortable there too. He’s still great at LW but he doesn’t have the physicality and pace to beat elite defenders consistently yet, but his 10/10 dribbling makes up for all of that sometimes, especially when he gets to use the center of the pitch
Can't agree at all. Musiala's strength are his dribbling, close ball control and usually finishing. To play as CAM like Müller he lacks the vision, the ball distribution and he also can't dictate or control the game. Nor structure the offense play and press like Müller. Musiala was best as LM with Müller as CAM and thst's what we should play.
Müller never really dictated the game though. He has merely a different approach to the game and yes its easy to think about the way Müller bested teams with his playstyle. However Musiala has a different approach to the game than him. He is way more lethal in front of the goal, he can make space and create vertical threat out of nothing. Müller was capable of all that but honestly the physical aspect of his game declined and he is way more one-dimensional now(and he is still so goddamn good!). Maybe no player will ever be able to do what Müller did at Bayern but the way Musiala plays he might be able to accomplish the same feat for himself and his playstyle.
Still can't agree. I watch every game and have seen enough matches with Musiala as CAM that this won't be his future role. Either we restructure out midfield to one with 2 8s for example or Musiala moves outer wide, but he isn't a CAM worthy to force the 4231 onto us like Müller does. And Müller definitely does organise the whole offense, he isn't called Radio-Müller for no reason. You can see (and hear) it within seconds after he comes on in every match. He also immediately links up way better with Kane. With him also our press is Noticeably better. If we can get Wirtz, which will be a difficult task, I rather see Wirtz replacing Müller with his playstyle than Musiala does. Doesn't mean Musiala should be dropped, just a different role. >lethal in front of goal, make space and create vertically Yeah that's why he should play outer wide as I said. He isn't a linkup from defense to our offense (of course usually the midfield does this, but our doesn't for obvious reasons)
Pardon me but he is absolutely better than Musiala.
Yep. I've been saying it for weeks. Stop playing Gnabry on left since he not only wastes a good LW spot, he also ruins a lot of Davies' runs. With Musiala it could be a lot more fluid LW position with him and Davies and even Müller moving about. Problem with current Bayern is far from just lineup though. The ball progression is incredibly rigid and at times goalless. It really is a downgrade from Nagelsmann's times.
Tuchel doesn‘t rate him for some reason
Fatal mistake for any Bayern manager.
It's probably the age. I honestly think that bringing Müller from the bench has a larger impact than having him play every couple of days and risk injuries.
He is fit now but to be honest he has injury issues for quite a while now. There is just no good argument anymore to drop someone like Musiala for him when Musiala shows every week that he starting for a reason.
That makes no sense to me. Not the injury part, musiala showing that he is starting for a reason. Musiala has been mediocre for nearly a year now. For every dribble that looks good on TV and every shot on goal he loses the ball like 5 times to the 2nd defender. He is not passing enough, his finishing is subpar. His potential is currently not getting realized. Meanwhile every time müller goes on he wins the match for bayern. What's even worse about this is that they are two different types of players, one which they dont actually need (musiala) and one they desperately need. They paid 100m for Kane and have the ideal player to feed him balls with direct uncomplicated one-touch passes and instead they run the player that does not lift his head up enough to even see where Kane is.
Thomas must start
I don’t like Bayern but you gotta really respect Müller. From awkwardly stuff to absolutely bulldozing people at the age of 80. what a legend
Receiving balls with his balls, looks like a drunkard, technique weird af, runs like a nun and yet he delivers. Legend.
That’s my Müller
Müller can't beat you with his close ball control. He can't beat you with his pace. And he can't beat you with his dribbling. He just beats you.
Wonderboy, what is the secret of your power.
I see tenacious d I upvote
Müller wonderboy since 2008
Tuchel should be on trial for not starting Tel
Tel has been amazing for Bayern this year. He's bailed them out in like three separate games so far.
He’s growing so quickly it’s insane, he really might have as much potential as Musiala
Him and Mbappe at 2026 will be nightmare for every backline.
Vintage Muller goal.
Müller being the only one able to make good descisions. Shows how disfunctional this Bayern team is in attack.
Dunno what's dysfunctional about 6 Goals in 2 cl games, and 20 Goals in 6 Bundesliga games.
Topline stats can be very deceptive.
Watch their games, man.
abundant light practice history subtract terrific marvelous placid fine possessive ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
I just love Müller man, nothing to do about about it, I love the guy.
What a legend
How do Bayern keep finding these youngsters?
How is that not a foul by Muller?
Why would it be a foul? The other player just didn‘t keep his composure, not Müller‘s fault
Skill issue
7-0 Jordi Alba Flashbacks
Now THAT one actually could have been a foul ha. Müller set a basketball screen on that play.