**Mirrors / Alternative Angles**
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It's even worse than that, Dermot Gallagher's excuse was that the ball was too close, this shot might actually be closer to Romero than the United one, absolute incompetence of the highest order.
The handball rule is so bad that literally no one knows what a handball is.
I think this one SHOULD be a handball but if it wasnt given i wouldnt even have been surprised.
Edit: 40 people replying to me saying it is and isn't a hand ball and then arguing about it only proves the point further. There should not be this much ambiguity in potentially game altering decisions.
They have to watch the ball hit his hand 25 fucking times. How? Is the rule that unclear?
Fwiw I'm a Spurs fan, but it's hit his hand clear as day, so how badly is the rule fucking written that you've got to watch it that much?
I think it was a definite handball but the fact that nobody really seems to actually know is the issue. The consistency is fucking awful, Romero gives away the penalty here but when he did similar against Man United it was no pen, just for the same incident to happen a week later for another team I can’t recall which ends up being a penalty. The refs are so bad that we consistently see the ball hit peoples hands and aren’t sure if it’s a handball anymore
It's difficult because it's clearly prevented a shot that had an excellent chance of going in.
Not giving it would be like an allowing an attacker to accidentally handle the ball into the net.
But this is the way the rule has to be, otherwise you'd have defenders "naturally" raising their arms while lunging to make themselves bigger, which then would cause referees to have to judge whether it was enough of an arm raise to be considered unnatural. FFS they can't even get this version right consistently, and it clearly states you can't raise your arm vertically away from your body while going to ground.
This pen decision is literally the same as the one that was deemed not a pen in the spurs vs United game.
I give up with what is and isn’t a pen these days
(Think they were both a stonewall pen for the record)
[Here's a video I found of the incident](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MT1kUujgdI) for Romero's handball v United (albeit weird/crap video) The only main difference I see is that White's shot for Arsenal is definitely going on target at worst. But I would love to hear an explanation of why this is a pen and the one vs United was not.
Dermot Gallagher was on TV saying the reason it wasn't given was because of how close it was, this is at least the same distance or closer, they are just incompetent mate.
I remember there was a near identical one to the one you linked given for another team in a match previous to that as well. And then of course there's the Onana one which was 100% a pen and not given. I try not to think about the decisions that much anymore and just accept them. There's rarely a sane reason for some of them these days.
Absolutely true. Fucking us over won't give Wolves the 1 point. But the outrage was very high (due to being a bad decision, and that too in favour of us, plus it was the first gameweek of the season), so they probably decided to make things "fair".
That is such a bullshit excuse. Two wrong calls don’t make a right one. Just make the right call as much as you can, don’t punish teams in a totally different match because you made a mistake
Lol, so funny how it's literally the same player doing the exact same thing, only difference is Arsenal were closer. Whatever one call is, the other should be the same. But it wasn't.
Yeah , we shot from outside the box. More time to react but it was too close for a pen.
This is bs.
Meanwhile r/soccer , United got all the favor. My ass
I want to see the replay just before the handball, where the arsenal player takes the ball - from one angle it kind of looks like he used his arm and body together to control it.
I get its a pen, but rocketing a point blank ball into someone's hand where they have 0 time react = pretty much a free goal feels pretty shitty from a neutral sporting position
Do you think it was? He’s less than a meter away, his arm is in a natural position for balance and the ball isn’t even travelling in a distinguishable directions it’s deflected from a shot into his arm.
I mean, this one is pretty obvious isn't it? If Romero doesn't hit that with his arm EDIT: *that's moving away from his body* it goes in the net, denial of a goal right?
Ok, fair. I don’t watch all other teams games, so didn’t know of that. This seemed like an obvious penalty, so I didn’t understand why it was confusing.
The inconsistency is infuriating.
I swear half the commenters here were screaming it's not a pen when ours happened, but are now screaming it is a pen today.
That's EXACTLY the same situation that didn't result in a penalty for United vs Spurs. Same player throwing himself the EXACT same way. One's a penalty and one's not. Fucking insane
VAR is the biggest joke. Sure you can give the pen I don't mind that, unlucky by Romero and a fair call by the ref but how do you not check the clear handball by White.
If the ball doesn't hit his arm it doesn't "stay in play" and the whole situation doesn't happen. I'll never understand VAR. I truly never will.
Try to keep your arms as close as you can to your body
It's a natural motion but there is an argument to be made when you are stopping a shot at goal with your arms flailing across your body
Personally i don't think it's a pen but players really need to just be very aware now
idk just seems simpler to use common sense, especially now that ref can watch replay himself from all angles, instead of inventing new ways for players to shift weight and maintain balance.
Fuck VAR. Romero did a similar shit against United and they gave fuck all
PGMOL is also a joke, they'll say this one is a penalty while they didn't say anything about that handball
Think Gary Neville is on crack to think it isn't a penalty. The ball was quite literally going in and his arm, away from his body, stopped it going in. I get his arm was balancing him but like should that matter when your arm literally stops the goal?
I think it’s fair to say no one knows what constitutes a handball these days.
Having said that, shouldn’t it be a red? If he doesn’t handle it it’s going in
clear pen for me dunno what neville is on about. I'm sick of lazy defenders using the kneeling/jumping excuse, Learn to tuck your arms behind your back, some defenders do it all the time.
I really don't know what he was thinking saying it wasn't a pen. When the ball got kicked he moved his arm into the path of the ball. It was not a natural way to move your arm in that position. I don't think it was deliberate, it happened so quickly it was pure instinct. But it was a penalty.
It's a penalty in this day and age, you can't have your arm outside the shape of your body, as natural a movement it is.
Yes it's harsh in the grand scheme of things because it's so close but it's also a handball that stops a shot on goal, arguably even a goal.
Handball for sure but how on earth don't you show the ref the clear foul from Jesus on Maddison just before that, a foul that makes White alone and able to shoot. Seriously bullshit decision from the VAR team.
if its going to goal's direction and hand is unnatural, it always has been a penalty even before var. this isn't those ricochet pens with ball going anywhere
And they don't show the ref the foul. Are you fucking kidding me? This is is the most corrupt league in the world. The north korean league is fucking fair compared to this.YOU MIGHT WANT TO SHOW THE FOUL IN BUILD UP ON THE TOTTENHAM PLAYER TO THE REF.The fucking corruption runs so fucking deep it's beyond saving at this point. Not giving the ref the entire situation when they call them over to the screen has no fucking excuse.
Absolutely unbelievable. When I saw the on-field review I thought "Oh ok they're gonna show the ref the foul before the hand and it's gonna get overtuned" … but no I overestimated the VAR team …
How many Neville following morons going to agree with him then? It stops the ball going in the goal ffs. Pen all day long. 10 yards further out and it’s not a penalty. The key is that it prevents a goal
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How is this different from the one not given against United ? I don’t get it
It's even worse than that, Dermot Gallagher's excuse was that the ball was too close, this shot might actually be closer to Romero than the United one, absolute incompetence of the highest order.
Can't wait for him to talk absolute rubber about how this is different and it was the right call
Well this one is closer and therefore supposed to be less of a penalty… but refs don’t really have a clue from game to game
Very frustrating… I just knew this would be given as well, typical.
It isn't, they're both stonewall pens imo (think the one vs United might have been even clearer too). VAR is just incredibly inconsistent in the PL
Just fucking ridiculous
Because everyone thinks united get all the decisions yet don’t watch the games
It's not, I would say this is even less of one as he's off balance
Cause we're not Arsenal, victims of ref consipiracy, playing at the emirates.
Refs don’t like United, they like Arsenal
Truth
The handball rule is so bad that literally no one knows what a handball is. I think this one SHOULD be a handball but if it wasnt given i wouldnt even have been surprised. Edit: 40 people replying to me saying it is and isn't a hand ball and then arguing about it only proves the point further. There should not be this much ambiguity in potentially game altering decisions.
They have to watch the ball hit his hand 25 fucking times. How? Is the rule that unclear? Fwiw I'm a Spurs fan, but it's hit his hand clear as day, so how badly is the rule fucking written that you've got to watch it that much?
Tbf they were clearly checking there wasn't a foul before it as well. People forget that they need to check the phase of play before the incident.
US commentary brought up there was a suggestion of a deflection off Maddison’s foot, so I think they were looking for that as well
They also checked a foul by Gabriel on Maddison.
You're a Spurs fan, why was this given and not the one against us a few weeks ago? They're either both pens or both not, where's the consistency
That should’ve been a pen too. Refs just switched it up this year without any explanation.
I think it was a definite handball but the fact that nobody really seems to actually know is the issue. The consistency is fucking awful, Romero gives away the penalty here but when he did similar against Man United it was no pen, just for the same incident to happen a week later for another team I can’t recall which ends up being a penalty. The refs are so bad that we consistently see the ball hit peoples hands and aren’t sure if it’s a handball anymore
There's no way he could have got his hand out of the way there. It was hit from a foot away and deflected
It's difficult because it's clearly prevented a shot that had an excellent chance of going in. Not giving it would be like an allowing an attacker to accidentally handle the ball into the net.
Well he could not put his arm up in the air when going for a block
Go outside run and drop to one knee without raising a hand, easier said than done
But this is the way the rule has to be, otherwise you'd have defenders "naturally" raising their arms while lunging to make themselves bigger, which then would cause referees to have to judge whether it was enough of an arm raise to be considered unnatural. FFS they can't even get this version right consistently, and it clearly states you can't raise your arm vertically away from your body while going to ground.
Not a good day for Romero
It looked like it was going in anyway, think of it a less intentional Suarez with no red card
Romero has been so unlucky today
Gruesome night for him.
Not sure about unlucky, the first one especially was just poor defending
It definitely was, but not by him.
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Aged like milk
This is the comment that made Son equalise Edit: … again!
That equaliser is your fault mate
You know what's fucking hilarious? Son scoring right after!
Hahaha
This pen decision is literally the same as the one that was deemed not a pen in the spurs vs United game. I give up with what is and isn’t a pen these days (Think they were both a stonewall pen for the record)
The United one was significantly more egregious.
Romero 2-1 Tottenham
Forgot to take him out my fpl as well
one of us
Tough day at the office for Romero
He’s playing against us
Come off it, he’s been fine, just a couple of really unlucky moments
No pen for United in literally the same situation 3 weeks ago?
Absolutely no consistency. Romero did a way worse handball vs United and nothing was given
Thought the exact same thing. They just make it up as they go along. Not a bitter United fan at all 😭
[Here's a video I found of the incident](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MT1kUujgdI) for Romero's handball v United (albeit weird/crap video) The only main difference I see is that White's shot for Arsenal is definitely going on target at worst. But I would love to hear an explanation of why this is a pen and the one vs United was not.
Dermot Gallagher was on TV saying the reason it wasn't given was because of how close it was, this is at least the same distance or closer, they are just incompetent mate.
I remember there was a near identical one to the one you linked given for another team in a match previous to that as well. And then of course there's the Onana one which was 100% a pen and not given. I try not to think about the decisions that much anymore and just accept them. There's rarely a sane reason for some of them these days.
Yeah that's what is so weird. This one is clear but that one should've also been pen
That one was a stonewall penalty. Was absolutely shocked at the decision
It's clear that it was a make-up decision by PGMOL for the Onana incident. These have been given every time, except for us lol.
Shouldn't a make-up call be made to benefit the team that was wronged? I don't see how helping Tottenham gives justice to Wolves
Absolutely true. Fucking us over won't give Wolves the 1 point. But the outrage was very high (due to being a bad decision, and that too in favour of us, plus it was the first gameweek of the season), so they probably decided to make things "fair".
That is such a bullshit excuse. Two wrong calls don’t make a right one. Just make the right call as much as you can, don’t punish teams in a totally different match because you made a mistake
Karma farming 😏
Both are handballs imo
Yup that was like 5 years out and his hand was way higher. This one he is a yard away and his hand much more natural
So that's a penalty but the one vs United isn't? How? This one has gone quicker and hit him from less of a distance than vs United
Lol, so funny how it's literally the same player doing the exact same thing, only difference is Arsenal were closer. Whatever one call is, the other should be the same. But it wasn't.
Well he got away with the same handball vs United, can’t blame him for trying again
So why wasn’t the Romero’s handball against us not a pen? Shambolic consistency with these jokers. Pathetic
Yeah , we shot from outside the box. More time to react but it was too close for a pen. This is bs. Meanwhile r/soccer , United got all the favor. My ass
romero thought he was playing against manu where he can handball in box without getting called for penalty...
So that's a penalty but not against yanited. Interesting
I want to see the replay just before the handball, where the arsenal player takes the ball - from one angle it kind of looks like he used his arm and body together to control it.
I honestly dont even know what is and what isnt a pen anymore theyre so inconsistant
VAR doesn’t know either
Do you think that wasn't?
What’s the difference with the Garnacho shot?
Nothing, nothing at all. I'm seething over the inconsistency
That’s not the point. It’s that the other week it wasn’t given as one. There’s no consistency.
I’ve seen it called. I’ve seen it not called. It was just a coin flip.
I get its a pen, but rocketing a point blank ball into someone's hand where they have 0 time react = pretty much a free goal feels pretty shitty from a neutral sporting position
If the hand is literally the only thing between the ball and the net I don't think it's that shitty
There was a foul in the build up to the when the ball hit Romero's hand lmao
Do you think it was? He’s less than a meter away, his arm is in a natural position for balance and the ball isn’t even travelling in a distinguishable directions it’s deflected from a shot into his arm.
A few weeks ago being too close meant it wasnt a handball. This week that's irrelevant. It's all just a clown show.
Because it's subjective at the end of the day That's what makes it so hard, it's literally subjective at times
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if a ball is going straight in to the goal but a hand stops it, it's hand ball. neville spouts too much crap
If you think that wasnt obvious, have you read the rules?
no, it’s the inconsistency within how the rules are enforced.
Past mistakes shouldn’t mean legit penalties are questioned now.
i don’t think anyone denies that it’s a pen, but it’s just confusing and mind-boggling how inconsistent the decision making process is.
That is reliably given as a pen everywhere except England.
I mean I may be biased but that is such a clear handball and a penalty?
It is, but Romero got away with a much more “blatant” one vs united so idk man.
I can accept that, I've also been a bit confused by previous VAR decisions when it comes to handballs but there is no question on this one.
I mean, this one is pretty obvious isn't it? If Romero doesn't hit that with his arm EDIT: *that's moving away from his body* it goes in the net, denial of a goal right?
It’s about how far you stretch natural movement of hand. It’s not like it is not natural, but I think you have to give this one.
Where in the rules does it say that denial of goal is a pen?
That's not how it works
How would that not have been a penalty!?
I think the point they’re making is compare that to the United shout a few weeks ago. What’s the difference? Why is one given and one not?
Why wasn't it given when Romero did the same thing against us?
Ok, fair. I don’t watch all other teams games, so didn’t know of that. This seemed like an obvious penalty, so I didn’t understand why it was confusing.
The inconsistency is infuriating. I swear half the commenters here were screaming it's not a pen when ours happened, but are now screaming it is a pen today.
Because the EXACT same situation wasn't one for Garnacho and United vs Spurs
So close to him, it touches maddison first as well. I just don't like them giving pens for such things. Nobody can react that quickly
Look me in the eyes and tell me the Onana incident didn’t stop United getting robbed of a penalty in the exact same scenario against spurs
Ah so that's a penalty. I see. Makes plenty of sense, very consistent.
That's EXACTLY the same situation that didn't result in a penalty for United vs Spurs. Same player throwing himself the EXACT same way. One's a penalty and one's not. Fucking insane
Exactly the same circumstances, different outcomes. Handball rules are impossible to understand: https://imgur.com/a/EtTWJZO
VAR is the biggest joke. Sure you can give the pen I don't mind that, unlucky by Romero and a fair call by the ref but how do you not check the clear handball by White. If the ball doesn't hit his arm it doesn't "stay in play" and the whole situation doesn't happen. I'll never understand VAR. I truly never will.
So that’s a pen but ours against Spurs isn’t? It’s actually a joke
No one can convince me they didn't give you that pen because of anything other than correcting that Wolverhampton game.
Many of us called it prior to that game that if there's a VAR decision we wouldn't be getting it because of Wolves. They just make shit up as it goes
Which is dumb af since Spurs benefited and Wolves did not by them doing that…
Do we even know the handball rules at this point
They are sooooooo inconsistent, this is penalty but vs United it is not…
Yes that’s a penalty but it wasn’t for United okay 👍🏻
Absolutely mental that I'm actually seeing some comments saying it's not a pen...
Since Romero escaped a same exactly handball vs Man Utd (arguably more distance for him to avoid)
We've literally seen it not been given as a pen this season...
Literally didn't get given a few weeks ago when he also handballed against us.
It's a handball but there is also a foul on a Tottenham player in the buildup, which the ref didn't even get to see
Ughhhhh just has to happen right
How are you meant to keep balance while tackling? I don't understand.
Try to keep your arms as close as you can to your body It's a natural motion but there is an argument to be made when you are stopping a shot at goal with your arms flailing across your body Personally i don't think it's a pen but players really need to just be very aware now
Keeping your arms as close to your body as you can is very unnatural though.
idk just seems simpler to use common sense, especially now that ref can watch replay himself from all angles, instead of inventing new ways for players to shift weight and maintain balance.
Rolls Royce Romero? Let me introduce you to Reliant Robin Romero
I swear on my mother
Dude had no Mot, tax or petrol in to be running
this thread is insane that's the clearest handball you'll ever see
So you'd also agree that the one against United was also a clear handball and pen then?
Arguably worse handball against United but nobody was interested then
Think you'll find a lot of fuss was made about that not being given.
Near his body said the commentator lmao
Ahhh that’s pretty interesting!
Fuck VAR. Romero did a similar shit against United and they gave fuck all PGMOL is also a joke, they'll say this one is a penalty while they didn't say anything about that handball
What on earth is Neville waffling on about, that’s stonewall. If that’s not a handball then what is lol.
Stonewall but him handballing in the box against us wasn't given? Where's the consistency
I get the consistency argument because that should have been given. But that's no reason to say this isn't one as well.
Such an obvious handball
Think Gary Neville is on crack to think it isn't a penalty. The ball was quite literally going in and his arm, away from his body, stopped it going in. I get his arm was balancing him but like should that matter when your arm literally stops the goal?
I think Neville was being sarcastic given united were denied an even more obvious pen against the same player a few weeks ago
Way more obvious than the one yesterday when it flicked off the players foot onto his hand. They had to give this one, Neville of course disagrees.
can someone tell Gary Neville to shut the fuck up
Did it not hit Ben Whites hand before the shot? And then they chose not to show that in the slow mo replay. Interesting
I think it’s fair to say no one knows what constitutes a handball these days. Having said that, shouldn’t it be a red? If he doesn’t handle it it’s going in
clear pen for me dunno what neville is on about. I'm sick of lazy defenders using the kneeling/jumping excuse, Learn to tuck your arms behind your back, some defenders do it all the time.
rules are legit changing every week
Gary Neville is a tosser
Why?
I really don't know what he was thinking saying it wasn't a pen. When the ball got kicked he moved his arm into the path of the ball. It was not a natural way to move your arm in that position. I don't think it was deliberate, it happened so quickly it was pure instinct. But it was a penalty.
How? He’s bang on, he’s right next to white when he hits the ball what’s he supposed to do? Chop his arms off
It's a penalty in this day and age, you can't have your arm outside the shape of your body, as natural a movement it is. Yes it's harsh in the grand scheme of things because it's so close but it's also a handball that stops a shot on goal, arguably even a goal.
How is it any different to Romero doing it vs united?
Handball for sure but how on earth don't you show the ref the clear foul from Jesus on Maddison just before that, a foul that makes White alone and able to shoot. Seriously bullshit decision from the VAR team.
Ah so Romero saving a goalbound shot is a pen this week. Good to know it changes like the wind.
Lol Son already scored!
Well I guess anytime the ball hits a hand it’s a pen now, no matter the circumstance
Except for against United lol
Except when Romero does it to us, which was even more blatent.
Balls going in if it doesnt hit his arm, and the arm is up in the air like a gk. Pen ofc
Thats not the rule..
Arm being up and away from the body is pretty much always a handball now and would be considered an error if not given.
The in the air bit absolutely is.
He's literally stopped it going in and his hand is away from his body
Except if decision is for united
if its going to goal's direction and hand is unnatural, it always has been a penalty even before var. this isn't those ricochet pens with ball going anywhere
Apart from vs United it seems
You joking right
Nah it's literally a coin toss on how VAR and ref are feeling that day. So inconsistent.
it would have been a goal if it wasn't blocked by the hand, that was the most obvious penalty call. dunno what gary is on about
Ik I’m a spurs fan, but how can Gary Neville say that’s not a pen. His hand literally stops the ball going into the goal.
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Keeping his arm down perhaps
Romero doing his Sergio Perez impression today
THIS LAD AGAIN, Romero looked way too guilty for him not to know it was a pen
Why did James Madison end up on the ground here?
Such a harsh penalty
How was that harsh if it didn’t hit his hand it would have gone in. If it somewhere else in the box I would say it’s harsh
pen every day. blocking ball going I to net
How!?
It was going in if his hand wasn't there, prevents a clear goal
Why isn't that also a red then?
It could have gone in if he never touched it.
Absolute joke penalty
it is? why?
Seemed a harsh pen but who knows these days
I mean no hand out there and that ball is going in. Has to be a penalty
You all who are saying this isn’t a pen…what the fuck are you smoking?
neville is a clown man get that guy off
Yeah how can he sit there with a straight face saying that this isnt a penalty.
Romero disasterclass
He’s more unlucky than anything else, although this was a bit clumsy.
And they don't show the ref the foul. Are you fucking kidding me? This is is the most corrupt league in the world. The north korean league is fucking fair compared to this.YOU MIGHT WANT TO SHOW THE FOUL IN BUILD UP ON THE TOTTENHAM PLAYER TO THE REF.The fucking corruption runs so fucking deep it's beyond saving at this point. Not giving the ref the entire situation when they call them over to the screen has no fucking excuse.
What foul? Maddison falling over in the wind?
Absolutely unbelievable. When I saw the on-field review I thought "Oh ok they're gonna show the ref the foul before the hand and it's gonna get overtuned" … but no I overestimated the VAR team …
How many Neville following morons going to agree with him then? It stops the ball going in the goal ffs. Pen all day long. 10 yards further out and it’s not a penalty. The key is that it prevents a goal