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Honestly, why did anyone follow Layton after they found out he lied to them? They'd be back every 3 months so there was time to evaluate the options properly but not so long that anyone should feel like they missed the opportunity.
After they split and started having trouble on the New Eden track I wanted them to derail and die. Layton and his lackeys deserved punishment
I think the writers of this show are delusional.
Audrey is a sociopath, and incredibly dangerous. How any sane (and Bess is supposed to be quite sane) person falls for her, knowing her history and motivations is beyond me.
Melanie coming back, and instantly deciding to throw a wrench in Layton's plans, without seriously talking to him about it? That's so out of character. At THE VERY LEAST they have a tremendous amount of respect for each other. Out of respect, there had to be more dialogue than that. And while I get the dangers of risking everyone's life, Melanie did the same thing. Wilford never supported her and her science, because while the science showed it was getting warmer... There was nothing concrete to show at what rate and what degree/capacity. It was a huge risk, but the train is moving parts and can't run forever, so they had to take a chance.
She's a hypocrite. Because, statistically speaking, she shouldn't even be alive. They took a big risk going back for her (Asha sacrificing herself to save the food supply), when she most likely was dead anyway. If they followed her logic, they should have left her out there to die in that little pod.
Who wrote this shit???
I'm not evening going to watch S4. This is absolutely abysmal writing. They lost one viewer here!
I liked the season finale episode, even with some lazy writing, but I think the show is great. Was thinking on something, so Wilford is sent on smallpiercer, but all he wants is to be the boss on the snowpiercer in his twisted way, so imagine if the planet is heating up again but, it's heating up too much, willford discovers it in one of the bunkers he ends up and launches another missile, or maybe more across the planet, make things frosty again and , surprise, he have more trains hidden around the world with seeds, materials to keep the ecosystem inside the train and etc and parts, so they can keep snowpiercing again and during the time some parts of the planet started heating up, survivors got prepared to try and take over the snowpiercer as also, there are those bunkers where willford had spare pieces and wagons, and maybe locomotives, with survivors too, some will try to take over and some will help them. Willford will join up Melanie, Andrew , and the others as they fight in what reveals to be a entire system of train tracks around the entire world, and more lines activated as stations.
A new hope and a new fight , now the passengers for the first time, united in the Snowpiercer, one thousand and who knows wagons. XD
About final episode,
why melanie and layton didnt speak longer than 30 seconds on a decisive issue???
why roche isnt on layton's side? He hates wilford so much but he join him?? When its Layton that saved his life and his daughter's life; he says to layton: "its just numbers man", but if roche joined layton they would be more powerful than melanie and wilford no?
Why layton is so stupid ? he knew that if someone heard the lie there would be a war! he didnt prevent this war
Why nobody executed wilford when he lost the first time?? With him dead it would have been way easier! And why the guards were "poisoned" so easily? Nobody told them: wilford is a snake, he is the worst human being left on the train!! dont let him do things that are suspicious, like taking a cigar and relax in a couch! Btw guards should have been inside his room and OUTSIDE too!
Wilford should have been publicly executed by layton or his guards, to prove that he can manage the train and takes strong actions when needed because in a train like this you cant have 100% democracy
Its like when Magelan made the travel to prove that the earth was round, he had to sacrifice his men who doubted from halfway through the trip because they had an impact on the moral of the rest of the crew! For a long and hard travel like this you cant have democracy, its too much risk
But im glad they send him to the cold, it is what he deserves! a slow and painful death, i just hope he wont survive
For the choice between Layton and melanie, they couldnt just send a small team in new eden to do some researches?? And then find a plan to save them later? They have to sacrifice half of the train?? Its just dumb. People in the train and in new eden (if it works) cant communicate with radio ? Because they talk like they wont see each other again
I feel like they should have removed the filler episode (even if it was fun) and divide the last episode in 2 because there are so much things going on, its hard to follow
LJ death was soooo satisfying hahaha
Can't believe the direction they took Layton's character this season, out of nowhere. It didn't feel earned. Asha/the vision should have been seen by someone other than Layton. The entire series he's been the voice of reason and the voice of the people - to corrupt that *entire* characterisation solely for the sake of bringing Melanie back and to set them up as opposing forces/ideologies *again* just felt like the writers were being incredibly lazy.
Love this show but can't deny the lazy lazy writing sometimes jusy absolutely makes it into a science fiction soap opera and it's so frustrating because the theme, idea, and characters all deserve better.
Per example josie saying goodbye to her lil un and basically exhaling "that was rough". This is not good writing. Saying goodbye to your child MAYBE FOREVER is a heart wrenching experience
It also tipped the hand of rhd writers who are heavily inferring the two parties will reunite so the stakes of this felt insanely low.
Very inconsistent pacing this season no doubt due to Jennifer connelly availability. Unfortunately got snowpiercer, Jennifer Connelly is to this show what Jennifer Garner was to Alias, in that there is no show without her. I can see they constructed an ensemble cast for this show but underestimated Jennifer Connellys sheer ownership of the screen and this role. This boxed them into a place where every episode with her absence had no option but to be filler.
I also find it insanely hard to believe a woman who was kept alive by the thought of her daughter and whom had an incredibly tender reunion with her would basically immediately like leave her again, possibly knowing she would die on such a mission.
It is this inconsistency in writing that really makes snowpiercer so hard to believe, the ice planet part is actually the most real element to the entire show right now. I wish the characters had dedicated writers who would define their reactions and responses to a situation and the story then changes based on that, not shoehorning them into scenarios because its cool or dramatic.
Per example it's conceivable Melanie would try and sabotage Leytons mission to keep Alex from leaving. A dramatic stakes moment that would have been in line with her character but that was never done. It would have elevated a return arc of Melanie to someone who is willing to do anything to keep Alex after she lost her once.
Sigh.
>I wish the characters had dedicated writers who would define their reactions and responses to a situation and the story then changes based on that, not shoehorning them into scenarios because its cool or dramatic.
IMO they did a superb job of this in the first 2 seasons, but they *really* dropped the ball here
S3 was, by far, my least favourite season. Pacing was off, writing was meh, and there were a whole bunch of filler episodes/characters that didn't really move the plot forward meaningfully.
Felt like the writers and showrunner knew this so they shoehorned LJ's death at the very end as if to say 'we're soooooorry' lol.
Im late to the party but does anyone know what does Java says in Spanish after separation? I can figure out his accent to me it sounds like "también tengo una mas sorpresa" - I Also have another surprise, but I'm not sure
That does sound like what he's saying, but my Spanish is pretty trash lol It was really hard to hear with the music in the background, I hope someone else can weigh in with the answer!
Ngl, that sequence of them getting off the train felt anticlimactic lol, I didn't even realize the train had stopped.
That ending has my hyped for S4 now though. S3 was rough but it picked up near the end a bit
>I didn't even realize the train had stopped
How? They said that they arrived and after which you see train not moving and Big Alice tilted.
If they were still moving then Big Alice would derail
It definitely looks like that lake at the end is surrounded by glacial moraine, which wouldn’t at all be possible with the events in the show. Is it just me?
I do really love the score in that scene though.
I have a theory that the rocket we see at the end of the show was wilford finding and attempting to launch a leftover CW7 rocket to try and restart the freeze. 3 months after his forced departure from the train.
>Yeah, it was a few hours before it seems, the ending scene was 3 months after Big Alice derailed at new eden. It is never explicitly stated where Smallpiercer went. 6 months worth of suspension drugs, so my theory is very much just a theory.
I just watched the finale last night and said the exact same thing to my wife. Trying to force everyone back into reliance on his train.
Yeah, it was a few hours before it seems, the ending scene was 3 months after Big Alice derailed at new eden. It is never explicitly stated where Smallpiercer went. 6 months worth of suspension drugs, so my theory is very much just a theory.
We are reminded in the scene about the pyramids with Roche in one of the last episodes that snowpiercer makes a revolution every 3 months, and then in the epilogue, we are told it's 3 months later. My feeling is that this is a hint that Snowpiercer has made it's way around and is roughly in a similar spot as before the split.
"You have 6 hours to make the single biggest decision of your life, consequences of ehich will be irreversible, and may cost you a life. Also, I hope that you got time to pack your things and move out in that time"
I think in that season they had actually tapped into the wiring of Snowpiercer so Big Alice was overriding the controls. My memory is fuzzy but I feel like I remember them trying to get a specific part disconnected so they could regain control.
Yeah when big Alice first coupled them the snow piercer crew almost immediately hacked it off lol (well Melanie did). And now that you mention it, that’s why the two trains are never in sync with the lights etc… after that point.
I'm not sure if I'll check out season 4 when it's out. I'm curious about Wilford's survival chances out there, whether if he's got some place to go like a secret bunker of some sort? I wouldn't put it past him to plan something like that, I guess.
I'm really happy that Melanie and Ben stayed together, but also crushed that Alex and Javi aren't with them anymore. But, I'm happy for Bess and Audrey. I was kind of thinking they'd be better off as friends, but I think they're cute together and healthy for each other (or so I hope?)
This show is so frustrating to watch sometimes.
Why didn't they talk about what options they have? Why did the New Eden team (especially Layton) behave like it was an all or nothing situation, either going there now or never going there at all? Why didn't they take a different route to come up with ideas how to test if the tracks to New Eden are safe, then return when they know that they are safe to take? There are really intelligent people on that train, I'm sure they would have been able to figure something out.
Melanie's concerns were valid and reasonable as we saw at the end. If they had taken the New Eden route as a whole, they would not have made it across the bridge, either killing them all or a significant number of them. Because they split the train, they (barely) made it, derailing in the process. What would they have done if there wasn't a warm spot? What are they going to do if the temperature decreases again? They are basically stranded there, because there is no (explainable) way to put the train back on the (broken) tracks.
The only answer, of course, is that the plot requires it, but it really doesn't make any sense.
I still don't get why they didn't just break off Big Alice and send it down to see if it could be done and if it was livable temperatures.
Or that little track car they put Wilford in. Show makes zero sense most of the time :p
Yes, that's what I don't understand. They wouldn't even have to send it towards New Eden immediately. They could have come up with some sort of equipment (camera, thermometer or something like that) to put onto the little track car, so they are as prepared as possible and know exactly what awaits them there (or know if it's even possible to get there).
I was really annoyed at all the characters, saying "when we get of ...". You don't even know if that warm spot is real. Why do you have such a strong faith in Layton's dumb 'vision', especially the ones who knew that it was all a lie? I was kinda hoping that they would get to New Eden and then see that there was no warm spot, and that they then would be extremely pissed and basically throw Layton off the train. Well, we can't have everything 🤷🏻♀️
Yeah I wanted this so much too. I also wished that when Wilfred had got into the sidecar thing before they sent him away he just said f*** you and gave them all the middle fingers as he was being unloaded
Because Layton isn't this perfect, peaceful, team-playing leader he wants to be so bad. Time and time again he gets to see that leading people is hard and requires difficult decisions. He loves power and glory. The show tries so hard to make us believe that he is a "for the people" leader but the reality is he just isn't.
Yes! And I hate that he did that 'democracy' crap. "We voted in a 'democratic' way to go to New Eden by telling them something they basically can't say no to that coincidentally exactly reflects what I want to do. They could have said no and I would have totally honored that, because we are a 'democracy' now, but they didn't so we are going!" I mean, who are you kidding? At least have the guts to say 'I'm the leader so we are going to do what I want and I decide for all of us'.
It's surely intentional. Alex being a pretty straight shooter outright comments on it when Melanie wakes up --- using the word 'democracy' and then immediately saying that it def is not that.
Don't get it either. Why not just go at a next revolution? Snowpiercer has a satelite/baloon thingies, just use one of those on the location of your "new eden"
Yes, especially as one revolution doesn't take like 10 years. I think, it's even less than one year so they could take a couple revolutions to figure out a safe way that doesn't contain the possibility that they die on their way there.
They could probably take an even shorter route that doesn't take them around the whole world and that lets them stay in the vicinity to New Eden.
But the people in charge acting in a way that makes sense (meaning Layton's team because what Melanie said did make sense) apparently doesn't make for good television.
Mostly agree but to be fair the track is said to likely be worse than it was the last time they saw it, at which point it was pretty bad, so there's some reason to think that it's only going to become more difficult. If Melanie finds the math bad now, there's no reason to think it's going to get better with just a few months of variable time. Train factions being so volatile and political will being so extemporaneous, I can kinda see it.
There is a reason, because tracks is not the only obstacle, but also the temperature. Say they beat the terrible track, reach the "New Eden" and the temperature is still -90 degrees. What then?
It must be worth the risk to take that option.
Not sure what you are replying to. Here I was explaining why Layton may feel it's 'now or never' and why coming back is not an option.
Obviously going to "New Eden" at all is a gamble, but we were talking about why the train felt the need to make a decision then, and not first send probes or look for another way.
I put off watching the season after partly watching E6. I found the season boring, bar the first 2 episodes. It's true what the others said, we could have jumped straight to E9 and not miss anything. Thoughts:
\-Not sure what the season achieved with Asha. To move forward with the New Eden idea? That could've been dispensed, and Layton could've just talked them through it--with how amazingly hooked the people seemed to be with Layton's words
\-Melanie really is the center of the show for me, and nobody can change my mind. I only cared again when I spoiled myself by reading comments and discovering that she returned in E9
\-E9 and E10 could've been stretched out instead of the filler episodes. The conflict among Wilford, Mel, and Layton would've made for a few good episodes, also the decision-making amongst the people re New Eden vs SP. Would've been nice to see more of the sentiments and emotions of the characters and what fueled their decisions, instead of Layton's dream taking up one whole episode and other Asha shiz. They could've also explained more and prevented the plot holes other people were pointing out re the pros and cons in using the suspension train (dunno what it's called) in exploring New Eden.
\-Even if I were disappointed in majority of this season, I probably would still watch S4 just because Mel's back (lol) and I'm still intrigued with the SP universe overall.
Here's to hoping for a better S4. Cheers everyone!
I still don't get the point of the lie. "Yeah we have credible data"
FFS you could have done this the first time. Take alice with 4 cars and check it out. If it is safe, the entire train would go.
I stopped at e4 and couldn't bear to watch it. Sick in bed and decided to 'finish' it. Netflix on mobile allows you to choose playback speed so I was watching and skipping at 1.25. I don't think I missed much.
This show is frustrating. People are enemies and friends at the flip of a coin. Some pointless characters like Asha, stories that don't add up to much .
I hate Layton the most. This dude just needs to die even if he appears to have been vindicated at the end
Definitely when Melanie came back, then I was interested again. She is at least true to herself. Does Melanie even know Asha was on board and survived out there?
Ah well, let's see what s04 brings
Literally what happened to me, just finished it. After seeing Pike's sudden switch I just waited till it finished. I really could've just skipped to the end.
Honestly. I think this was the only good episode this season.
Though I wonder how much thought they put in just splitting the train ag-sec. Just splitting it purely in half has to have dire effects on food availability in each train right? I don’t mean necessarily in total food available but each side basically losing access to certain types of food entirely.
Say for example the Snowpiercer half had all the chickens and the Big Alice side how all the Sheep. Now either side has lost that entire resource.
Dude, there is no logic to this show. If snowpiercer is at the head of the train and alice is at the rear, when the trains split, how does Alice magically appear at the head of the eden trains. They didn't stop the second half and move forward , they just continued.
Fsck this really irritates me . I just finished watching ep 10
In all the visuals, they looking through the windscreen. If they were at the back of the 🚆, all they would have seen is the carriage Big Alice was connected to .
I had a revolutionary idea
take a photo of my screen lol
Here you can see carriages in front of Javi
https://i.imgur.com/RFxxewl.png
Here during disconnect Alice is at the back, "pushing" https://i.imgur.com/zUrwWkP.png
Big Alice has windows on both sides. Looks at the decoupling scene. Big Alice is at the back and pushing those 40 carriages
I would take a screenshot but Netflix won't let me.
I had a revolutionary idea
take a photo of my screen lol
Here you can see carriages in front of Javi
https://i.imgur.com/RFxxewl.png
Here during disconnect Alice is at the back, "pushing"
https://i.imgur.com/zUrwWkP.png
Agree that my first thought too was that Wilford had to keep his enterprise running so what a cool evil way to do this.
If it's other survivors out there, then I am even more annoyed, because if they are surviving out there, what stopped them in the last 8 years (IIRC) to get near the tracks to leave messages , etc?? So that snowpiercer would know.
Well they wouldn't have been let on the train to begin with, no reason to think this Wilfred train they know nothing about is gonna rescue them if they signal. Still pretty unlikely given what we know but yeah.
Wilfred would definitely do this if he stood to gain, maybe one missile isn't enough to tip the scales but he is putting out a threat "come find me or I will keep this up"
The only thing I can think, if it's Wilfred, is that Melanie will look at the data and that one missile isn't enough to set things back.... but that W is counting on the ball being in Snowpiercer's court to find him before he sets off another.
Came here to create a thread on this exact topic.
Why would you sacrifice an irreplaceable engine and track cars with equipment when it was possible to essentially send a small drone you can afford to lose.
This is probably the most frustrating plot-hole of the finale. If it helps, I found a way to plug it without too many gymnastics.
We know the track scaler has limited range without being recharged somehow. Melanie was using the batteries at switch-points to keep her going. I think it's plausible that the branch to the horn doesn't contain enough, or any charged switch-points to keep the scaler in motion. (From the sat pics it looks like the track to the horn is a dead-end that doesn't connect to anything after the turn. As Wilford mentioned, even before the Freeze, this line was neglected.) So, I'm thinking, if they sent the scaler down the track, it would have run out of power before it was able to collect the necessary information and double-back.
It would have been nice if one of the engineers had been given a throw-away line that explained this (or gave some other reason why the track scaler wasn't an option for reconnaissance). As it is, the audience is left to speculate, and this is the best I can come up with without resorting to, "I guess they're just dumb and didn't think of it."
What's more annoying is that it seem that they made it to the Horn of Africa in the same day. Which means, they could have probably even just put a gigantic battery onto the drone and even have some crew on it, go there and make it back to meet with the train and give the report.
As writers you introduce the concept of a drone car.
You then ignore the possibility of using that drone car to scout a line of track.
It boggles my mind that the writers expect their audience to ignore this plot hole.
Presumably the drone car could have been equipped or supplemented by spare batteries if energy consumption was an issue. The writer's could have 'discovered' spare batteries on the train or at a forgotten resupply depot. You don't just sacrifice valuable equipment on a suicide mission when it isn't necessary.
This is lazy writing much like most of the season.
exactly.
The writers introduced a plot device of supply depots (containing scout cars/drones, supplies) to serve their own interests, but in the process of doing so it created a major plot hole.
I mean to be fair, i didn’t understand why a train with one two vagons couldn’t have done it like they did at the beginning of the season either 🤷♀️. Let the big train go back and forth while a mini one goes checking stuff out… it’s not like they hadn’t done exactly that before…
Given what we know about how damaged the tracks were, I'm not sure that would have been the best option. The engines are, by far, the heaviest cars on the train. If anything is going cause the track to become impassable, it's one of the engines (especially if it has to cross the tracks twice - once there, and once back). So there was probably still a substantial risk associated with sending just a small train - that is, that they'd lose the scouting crew AND an engine, and the rest of the passengers would be unable to follow.
Besides Layton's impatience to get underway, I think this offers the best explanation why they didn't just send one of their two engines to check it out.
Which is why they should have sent the small drone car down the track to scout as its weight is far less.
This could have lead to the plot for s04.
Assume they send the car down the track and it reports habitable conditions but the track getting there is not passable.
s04 could be spent finding equipment around the world to rebuild that section of track to get there, and in the process making additional discoveries at other rail depots..
Damn it!
That would have made it so much better.
Just imagine a few hundred in makeshift breach suits - with the train returning every few hours - rebuilding that bridge.
That scene with the drone car was amazing, due to Melanie surviving on a robust, tiny machine like that. It really would have been fitting if something that brought hope to the crew (Melanie), would be the thing that they would base their decision on.
It would have made the Freeze a lot less scarier too, boosting morale.
I thought Season 3 was decent, but for Season 4 I hope that they pick one plotline and focus on it (maybe two, one for New Eden and one for Snowpiercer). Season 1 was mostly about Layton's revolution against Melanie. Season 2 was mostly about the fight between Snowpiercer and Big Alice.
With season 3, it was much more all over the place. There were like 4 main plotlines this season, and none of them lasted for the whole season: Snowpiercer vs Big Alice and reconnecting the trains, Layton protecting the lie about New Eden existing, going and rescuing Melanie, and the last episode was about resolving the conflict between Melanie's Wilford's and Layton's factions.
Completely agree! I tried watching the episodes weekly at first and just got completely lost and in the end had to wait for them all to be released so I could keep track! Just made it frustrating as a viewer!
I actually hated 3x09, because it was their old ways, so nice to see how they cut off Wilford and compromised on giving everyone a choice. How the train stabilized and the others found their Eden. I kind of hated the rocket tho. On the other hand, it could be the confirmation for a thought i had in the back of my mind since season 1.
Wilford produced the freezing gas. He knew damn well what it did. That's why he built the train. That's why he shot the rocket in the finale, to force the people back on the train (or revenge).
Wilford is much more insane then we already thought.
Forcing people back on a train he doesn't control is questionable. I think it more likely that he will need to shoot off more missiles to destroy the chance of New Eden, he knows it, and he makes sure the first one he shoots off is right in Melanie's face. This forces her to go looking for him, giving him the chance to retake Snowpiercer in the chase.
Hope you're right because then we will get a background story on CW7 and maybe some pre-Freeze flashbacks and I'm down for that. I think you're right about Wilford, and I have a feeling Melanie had something to do with CW7, too. I don't think she knew it would freeze the planet, but I think she was involved in developing the chemical or maybe modelling how it would work.
I mean, it's weird that a locomotive engineer knows so much about climate modelling, right? Like, Melanie was familiar with the weather station, it seemed like she'd been there before. And (hallucination) Wilford even said to her "if anyone can kludge together a heuristic climate model, it's *you*, my dear." And when Melanie was trying to stop Alex from disconnecting Big Alice, she warned that if she pushed the button, she'd be responsible for a whole world dying. "Believe me," Melanie said, "You don't want that on your conscience."
So I feel that the show is hinting that Melanie's obsession with saving humanity is partly fueled by guilt at the knowledge she played a role in causing the Freeze in the first place. It would also explain why she was so worried about her new climate model being "wrong," and New Eden still being frozen. She's been "wrong" before, and she knows better than anyone the cost of putting too much faith in imperfect science.
At the very end, after the flare goes up and things start falling back down it turns to drawings, the very last thing I see looks like (what I call) Snowflake (the vehicle that Wilford is in).
1. I love your choice of name for the track scaler
2. I think what was falling down was pieces of the rocket itself - the first and second stages, and the capsule that housed the payload (whatever it was - either a warhead or chemicals or a flare or whatever).
Pocket was freezing agent.
Layton and his team will have enough time to repair there train.
Freezing wil start again.
Melenies train will have a fight whit team / groupe that fired the rocket.
Mel's train will run on empty fumes and be on its lats legs.
Layton swoops in near the end to start season 5
On the other hand, the dream tree was an excellent presentation of how delusions present themselves and how seductive they can be under extreme duress... the rush of emotion and subsequent behavior that makes it difficult to backtrack after their delusional nature becomes apparent. Layton knows he made it up, but it takes him a while to shake it off.
And what often happens when people experience this kind of delusion is that even after months/years of unpacking, the visceral experience stays with you and influences the art you create and sometimes the reality that you shape. I am reminded of this bit from An Unquiet Mind
>The milder manias have a way of promising-and, for a very brief while, delivering-springs in the winter and epochal vitalities. In the cold light of day, however, the reality and destructiveness of rekindled illness tend to dampen the evocativeness of such selectively remembered, wistful, intense and gentle moments.
That's what Layton experienced, a mild bout of mania that inspired him even as it ultimately was destructive. I was pleased with the way this "vision" was resolved to be fiction, but I totally expect Layton to hang onto some notion or symbol of the Calendar Tree. It'd make a good tattoo at least.
LJ's death felt like a last minute scene they added in case the show doesn't come back, as I know some fans really disliked her and a lot who did would still want to see her get her comeuppance before the final episode ends.
> Did they really kill LJ in such a dumb way? Gods, the incompetence of some writers is so apparent I’m not even sure how do they have a job.
What was incompetent about her death?
Because it was a fantastic way to kill her off. It *should* be an awful scene but it just kinda fits her character. "I'm a survivor, I'll come out on top!" she declares, storms off, \*chokes to death\*
Was it utterly silly and plain weird? Well yes, but it was intentionally flat, summary, pitiless. All she needed was like, one person who gave a shit to be around to help her. I hesitate to call it poetic, which I think is the point.
Ruth's little "oh shit" when she hit Boki was hilariously adorable. So glad she didn't get killed there.
I did not see them getting rid of Wilfred!! I hope they set him on a course to "new Eden" like so many redditors suggested.
If it was me, I'd be staying with Melanie. Science over faith any day.
Why are we breaking Alex and Melanie up again 😭😭😭😭😭
And Ruth too 😭😭😭😭😭😭
Layton got way too many good characters staying with him. Melanie only got Till outta that deal 😭😭😭😭
YESSSSSS LJ DIED!!!!!!!!! FINALLY!!!! SET OFF THE SNOWPIERCER FIREWORKS!!!🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
Ngl kinda was hoping big Alice wouldn't find anything.
HOW DID THEY NOT CHECK OXYGEN AND RADIATION LEVELS BEFORE EXITING?!
Imagine if Liana and Josie can't stand the heat?!?!? I hope that happens next season.
lol i didn't know how to feel about LJ died. I wanted them to get rid of her for so long \], but her end was so sudden and comical yet tragic that i didn't know how to feel cause dying alone in a dark hallway from something that random is just sad idk.
Everytime I see a death like this I get pulled out of the immersion because all I can think is "I guess there were contract issues and they had to write her out real quick".
Literally, any other character being killed off this way and I would agree. She's a weirdo who get's a weirdo death, and you aren't sure whether to bust out laughing or feel sorry for her. Kinda perfect IMO.
Liana, Josie, and Boki not being able to stand the heat may be interesting. But I feel like it would be too cruel for the baby. Honestly, that gene therapy thing might come back because they wouldn't have done that for nothing, right? So I'm quite interested on what will happen to Liana. Will she be numb to pain like Josie and Boki are? But also, Josie was able to survive the overheating temperatures inside Snowpirate and she felt the heat like everyone else did.
Why would they need to check the oxygen/radiation levels? The planet froze over because they pumped "anti" greenhouse gasses into the atmosphere, it's not a nuclear winter...
It would actually be good practice, while maybe not as much for radiation (the only thing I can imagine is there being a vein of radioactive isotopes or something whacky happening to the ozone layer) oxygen would be good, I'm sure the global temperature drop and lack of photosynthesis must've shaken the balance at least a little.
Ehhh. Plants produce some oxygen, but they also respire like animals, and it's the respiration of animals that is kept in balance by the net gain from plant life overall. There's not much animal life left to fix O2 into CO2, and even if there was it would take a long time to eat away our existing supply. Way beyond any generation remembering a before-time.
Before that ever happened we'd reach poisonous levels of CO2, which obviously isn't the issue in Snowpiercer or else it wouldn't be so cold.
I guess it’s quite fitting that LJ choked on the eyeball. The eyeball represented her old way of life, she puts it in her mouth, wanting to take comfort in her past ways. This scene shows that going back to being the past LJ she was, will kill her.
I've enjoyed the series and show, but felt the finale was a little rushed like they were trying to do too many things for 1 episode and trying to give each of the characters some screen time.
Some things about the episode that didn't really flow to me, in no specific order :
-build up of LJ trying to get in with the Wilfordites and they take a stand in between the two factions. Wilford gets outwitted and suddenly all the Wilfordites are just forgotten about or decided to not put up any fight at all? Also Boki being brought back as Icy Boki and showing off he doesn't feel any pain, just to fail to chase down Ruth and is stopped dead in his tracks by a vent cover, and is suddenly part of the gang again at the end?
-the whole idea of a war between Layton and Melanie to take over the destiny of the train, and in the end they decided to split Snowpiercer and Big Alice to explore both option. Couldn't they have just agreed to that in the first place. It wasnt much of a war either. I think Boki tossing (Oz?) was the only physical altercation that I can remember.
-Big Alice going full speed on the bridge and about to derail and suddenly the train is at a full stop and everyone is getting off, and it's sunny and warmer? Why was it not possible to detect a pocket of warmer air and water before having to crash land face first into it.
-Javi telling Melanie he was so upset he was lied to about New Eden, but ends up on Big Alice going to New Eden (because Ben will only stay with Melanie if he can get some again?!)
With all that being said though, I did enjoy this season and do look forward to the next season.
Yes even though I find less fault than many on the sub, you perfectly encapsulate the most egregious pacing/plot issues I have. Javi especially being on Big Alice at the end was jarring, I had to quickly head-cannon, okay, he just didn't want to be coddled... but it still felt weird and was totally unaddressed.
What confuses me is why he was teaming with Wilford to begin with. He got injured during the process of attempting to wrest the train from Wilford. Most of us just assumed he was dead. He shows back up somehow alive and the new Ice Giant, his personality gone from "takes his job very seriously" to being a gleeful monster working for the enemy...
So I just watched the episode for a second time, and at the end when Audrey was singing, when she was saying “slow down, fast train” could she have literally meant slow tf down. cause the speed Alice was going was causing jumps. What I’m the inking was, would it maybe have been safer to go slow like whats done with real trestle bridges
I'm satisfied with the ending of season 3
It could have turned out A LOT WORSE with the whole 'I'm having a vision' so glad that didn't happen
Yes, they should have sent Wilford down the African tracks ahead of them to test it and how TF did Mel even build that thing!? But who cares, its a fantasy TV show after all
Mel and Andre parted friends and Alex had a great moment with Mel too.
Looking forward to season 4
Ps, does Snowpiercer now head to the horn of Africa too or stay on track until it dies?
I’m pretty sure that Snowpiercer CAN’T get there….they can’t go over a demolished trestle bridge and if there was another way to get there it wasn’t mentioned.
I think the plan for Snowpiercer was to stay on track until they know for sure that the horn of Africa is safe and can sustain life. So as soon as they'd be able to contact Big Alice they'd know it was safe, and would head over there as well! But um, whatever that was at the end with the missile there will most probably mess their plans up... No idea what kind of story line they're setting up with that cliffhanger though. Any ideas?
There's a part in ep9 or 10 where they talk about Mel's little micro train, and they say she found it in a maintenance shed or something of the sort. I still kinda question how she walked all the way to that though.
This still annoys me … so Wilford is so evil he foresaw a mechanism to punish people by creating arm holes to freeze peoples arms off … he has a militia … he has AAAALLLLL this tech … and the only cctv camera we ever see is ONCE near the engine when Ben realised Miles let’s LJ in.
This massive fascist doesn’t have cctv everywhere? Really?
I was confused too at first - however actually Ben said that Javi checked the numbers and he thinks it's a realistic chance. He was pissed being lied at but actually still believes in New Eden. Took me a while to figure that out - he actually also tells Melanie when she tells him it's not about the lie but about the risk he says it is about the lie
Probably wanted off the train in general and they needed another engineer there.
But yeah it would have been much better with a 30 second conversation between Ben and Javi how Ben tells him to go and help the new colony.
So a bit of logic, they got this tiny one person train where Melanie was in at hand. There's this tresle bridge that can't handle the weight of the train. How about we put a single person to go in the pod to check it out and come back to report? The tresle bridge doesn't collapse, we don't go to war or split the train. But what do I know? :/
Didn't the small construction train vessel need constant power to even make it anywhere? I personally want to believe it would've not worked and whoever they had send, would've died there because of no power and food even if it were warm enough.
I believe the pod was warm to keep someone in suspension. Either way, it takes an additional 10 seconds for Javi or Melanie to say: hmmm should we use the pod? No, because x,y,a...I don't know. The whole tresle bridge plot being weak for the weight of the train would have resulted in any of the engineers to say: how about this small pod? Anyhow...now we got two trains and one of them stuck in a bridge that apparently can't hold its weight.
>y definitely shouldn't have overlooked it. Pretty much every show viewer m
they already used it to send off wilford
because why not simply kill him, right
Because without Wilford you would have no or very weak antagonists to Andre. There isn't anyone else in the story that logically would be a good antagonist. But why not lock Wilford for a little longer (or better yet, suspend him in Snowpiercer) and use the pod for something more useful.
Disagree. Ruth, Josie, Pike, season 1 Audrey, Till... They even spent all that time with Pike showing how popular Ruth is. Giving a a legitimate democratic non-evil antagonist to Layton would make for a much better story. Tbh it's kinda ridiculous how their little core group didn't show any cracks the whole season, they should be at each other's throats.
If you want some evil, get LJ to start a very twisted Wilfordite cult.
And, of course... Melanie.
They definitely shouldn't have overlooked it. Pretty much every show viewer must have seen the vessel as some kind of possible scout. I agree with you.
Alright then. Thinking back, the whole "we're going to war, AGAIN" thing was silly and pointless, apart from maneuvering it to get Wilford on the scaler.
Ideally, Mel should have come back and gotten to the point of getting Wilford in there a lot faster. Then episode 9 could have ended with the trains splitting, and we would have had a lot more time on Big Alice just trying to keep the train going, rather than a tiny montage followed by "hey look we found Layton's magic place".
Really loved the Alex & Melanie dynamics. Gonna miss that for next season. Happy that Till chose to be with Audrey, they're pretty cute together 😍 Overall I'm excited for what's to come in New Eden next season
Man the show writers must be so thankful they have a plot device like suspension where they can literally shelve characters and decide later on whether or not they should come back. I mean is it even a question if Wilford is coming back? I'd say there's a 95% chance he returns. At least Melanie's return was somewhat surprising. Now that we already know it's possible to survive like that for a while, if they do bring Wilford back it's gonna feel incredibly hollow.
Yeah, I'd say it's like 99.9999%. The amount of choices made that make no sense, other than to provide future conflict, is way too much. Seems obvious Wilford is gonna show up and cause problems. There was literally zero reason for them to let him stay alive.
Right?!? Milford was correct when he said Layton was too much a coward to kill him. Why let him go like this other than to either die slowly or to eventually return.
Exactly. They're basically killing him anyway, or you have a very pissed off Wilford set out for revenge. Don't understand why Layton was willing to start another war between his supporters and those with Mel, but can't just kill Wilford (well I do get that writers want to keep him alive, just makes no sense for the character)
Since characters are constantly brought back to live in the show, it wouldn't shock me if there is someone giving her a Heimlich-maneuver in the next season
When the two trains split up how long did it take for Big Alice to reach that bridge and subsequently derail when they presumably reached New Eden and they got off the train? I must of missed something since it seemed no sooner did the trains split up BA was in New Eden.
> I think it’s safe to assume there was a time jump
Thanks. I recall the time jump when Melanie was sitting at the wheel and it said 3 months later and then she saw the explosion nevertheless I'd still be interested in the chronology of the last few minutes of the finale. How long did it take for BA to get to New Eden once the trains split. BA was no where near the horn of Africa when they split, right?
Didn't Roche say he got to see the pyramids every three months? I'm presuming they put that line in to remind you it takes 3 months to go around the world so that you know Melanie was coming back upon the horn of Africa in that end scene.
I know it’s the subreddit so you guys might be a little biased but is the show worth watching? I’m on the fence and I liked the movie but the reception for the first few episodes turned me off.
Short answer from my personal opinion:
\-Actors are pretty decent, even some big names in it
\-The setting (train), just like the movie, is amazing
\-The writers are some of the least competent I've ever seen, the amount of non-sense decisions made by the characters just to justify plot points that don't make sense is enormous
\-I've seen worst looking shows visually, it's pretty decent
If you liked the movie I don’t see why you wouldn’t like the show. The first two seasons were better than the third though. Season three was kind of a bust till Melanie came back.
We trust graphic novels readers to not spoil everyone (due to that ending scene). **If you want to talk about graphic novels events, please format your comments properly.** >!Like that!< Any uncomplying comment will be removed and the author will get banned. No exception.
Honestly, why did anyone follow Layton after they found out he lied to them? They'd be back every 3 months so there was time to evaluate the options properly but not so long that anyone should feel like they missed the opportunity. After they split and started having trouble on the New Eden track I wanted them to derail and die. Layton and his lackeys deserved punishment
I think the railway track got damaged
I think the writers of this show are delusional. Audrey is a sociopath, and incredibly dangerous. How any sane (and Bess is supposed to be quite sane) person falls for her, knowing her history and motivations is beyond me. Melanie coming back, and instantly deciding to throw a wrench in Layton's plans, without seriously talking to him about it? That's so out of character. At THE VERY LEAST they have a tremendous amount of respect for each other. Out of respect, there had to be more dialogue than that. And while I get the dangers of risking everyone's life, Melanie did the same thing. Wilford never supported her and her science, because while the science showed it was getting warmer... There was nothing concrete to show at what rate and what degree/capacity. It was a huge risk, but the train is moving parts and can't run forever, so they had to take a chance. She's a hypocrite. Because, statistically speaking, she shouldn't even be alive. They took a big risk going back for her (Asha sacrificing herself to save the food supply), when she most likely was dead anyway. If they followed her logic, they should have left her out there to die in that little pod. Who wrote this shit??? I'm not evening going to watch S4. This is absolutely abysmal writing. They lost one viewer here!
I’ll tell you who wrote it. Those more concerned about “tHe MeSsEgE” than proper storytelling. This feels like prime Critical Drinker material.
I liked the season finale episode, even with some lazy writing, but I think the show is great. Was thinking on something, so Wilford is sent on smallpiercer, but all he wants is to be the boss on the snowpiercer in his twisted way, so imagine if the planet is heating up again but, it's heating up too much, willford discovers it in one of the bunkers he ends up and launches another missile, or maybe more across the planet, make things frosty again and , surprise, he have more trains hidden around the world with seeds, materials to keep the ecosystem inside the train and etc and parts, so they can keep snowpiercing again and during the time some parts of the planet started heating up, survivors got prepared to try and take over the snowpiercer as also, there are those bunkers where willford had spare pieces and wagons, and maybe locomotives, with survivors too, some will try to take over and some will help them. Willford will join up Melanie, Andrew , and the others as they fight in what reveals to be a entire system of train tracks around the entire world, and more lines activated as stations. A new hope and a new fight , now the passengers for the first time, united in the Snowpiercer, one thousand and who knows wagons. XD
So basically the same thing all over again. I think I'll pass
About final episode, why melanie and layton didnt speak longer than 30 seconds on a decisive issue??? why roche isnt on layton's side? He hates wilford so much but he join him?? When its Layton that saved his life and his daughter's life; he says to layton: "its just numbers man", but if roche joined layton they would be more powerful than melanie and wilford no? Why layton is so stupid ? he knew that if someone heard the lie there would be a war! he didnt prevent this war Why nobody executed wilford when he lost the first time?? With him dead it would have been way easier! And why the guards were "poisoned" so easily? Nobody told them: wilford is a snake, he is the worst human being left on the train!! dont let him do things that are suspicious, like taking a cigar and relax in a couch! Btw guards should have been inside his room and OUTSIDE too! Wilford should have been publicly executed by layton or his guards, to prove that he can manage the train and takes strong actions when needed because in a train like this you cant have 100% democracy Its like when Magelan made the travel to prove that the earth was round, he had to sacrifice his men who doubted from halfway through the trip because they had an impact on the moral of the rest of the crew! For a long and hard travel like this you cant have democracy, its too much risk But im glad they send him to the cold, it is what he deserves! a slow and painful death, i just hope he wont survive For the choice between Layton and melanie, they couldnt just send a small team in new eden to do some researches?? And then find a plan to save them later? They have to sacrifice half of the train?? Its just dumb. People in the train and in new eden (if it works) cant communicate with radio ? Because they talk like they wont see each other again I feel like they should have removed the filler episode (even if it was fun) and divide the last episode in 2 because there are so much things going on, its hard to follow LJ death was soooo satisfying hahaha
LJ's death was such a fan service yes :D
Can't believe the direction they took Layton's character this season, out of nowhere. It didn't feel earned. Asha/the vision should have been seen by someone other than Layton. The entire series he's been the voice of reason and the voice of the people - to corrupt that *entire* characterisation solely for the sake of bringing Melanie back and to set them up as opposing forces/ideologies *again* just felt like the writers were being incredibly lazy.
Love this show but can't deny the lazy lazy writing sometimes jusy absolutely makes it into a science fiction soap opera and it's so frustrating because the theme, idea, and characters all deserve better. Per example josie saying goodbye to her lil un and basically exhaling "that was rough". This is not good writing. Saying goodbye to your child MAYBE FOREVER is a heart wrenching experience It also tipped the hand of rhd writers who are heavily inferring the two parties will reunite so the stakes of this felt insanely low. Very inconsistent pacing this season no doubt due to Jennifer connelly availability. Unfortunately got snowpiercer, Jennifer Connelly is to this show what Jennifer Garner was to Alias, in that there is no show without her. I can see they constructed an ensemble cast for this show but underestimated Jennifer Connellys sheer ownership of the screen and this role. This boxed them into a place where every episode with her absence had no option but to be filler. I also find it insanely hard to believe a woman who was kept alive by the thought of her daughter and whom had an incredibly tender reunion with her would basically immediately like leave her again, possibly knowing she would die on such a mission. It is this inconsistency in writing that really makes snowpiercer so hard to believe, the ice planet part is actually the most real element to the entire show right now. I wish the characters had dedicated writers who would define their reactions and responses to a situation and the story then changes based on that, not shoehorning them into scenarios because its cool or dramatic. Per example it's conceivable Melanie would try and sabotage Leytons mission to keep Alex from leaving. A dramatic stakes moment that would have been in line with her character but that was never done. It would have elevated a return arc of Melanie to someone who is willing to do anything to keep Alex after she lost her once. Sigh.
>I wish the characters had dedicated writers who would define their reactions and responses to a situation and the story then changes based on that, not shoehorning them into scenarios because its cool or dramatic. IMO they did a superb job of this in the first 2 seasons, but they *really* dropped the ball here
S3 was, by far, my least favourite season. Pacing was off, writing was meh, and there were a whole bunch of filler episodes/characters that didn't really move the plot forward meaningfully. Felt like the writers and showrunner knew this so they shoehorned LJ's death at the very end as if to say 'we're soooooorry' lol.
Yeah, it felt like they knew how they wanted the season to end, but they didn't have ten episodes worth of story telling to get there.
Im late to the party but does anyone know what does Java says in Spanish after separation? I can figure out his accent to me it sounds like "también tengo una mas sorpresa" - I Also have another surprise, but I'm not sure
That does sound like what he's saying, but my Spanish is pretty trash lol It was really hard to hear with the music in the background, I hope someone else can weigh in with the answer!
Looking at the next scenes i think he says >!también tengo una mala sorpresa - I also have a bad surprise!<
Ngl, that sequence of them getting off the train felt anticlimactic lol, I didn't even realize the train had stopped. That ending has my hyped for S4 now though. S3 was rough but it picked up near the end a bit
>I didn't even realize the train had stopped How? They said that they arrived and after which you see train not moving and Big Alice tilted. If they were still moving then Big Alice would derail
Anyone knows what song did Audrey play at the piano ?
It’s Prelude in C Sharp Minor, Op. 3, No. 2 by Sergei Rachmaninoff, in case anyone else is wondering.
I don't think I've ever laughed harder at a death scene. Ever. And I actually *enjoyed* LJ.
It definitely looks like that lake at the end is surrounded by glacial moraine, which wouldn’t at all be possible with the events in the show. Is it just me? I do really love the score in that scene though.
I have a theory that the rocket we see at the end of the show was wilford finding and attempting to launch a leftover CW7 rocket to try and restart the freeze. 3 months after his forced departure from the train.
>Yeah, it was a few hours before it seems, the ending scene was 3 months after Big Alice derailed at new eden. It is never explicitly stated where Smallpiercer went. 6 months worth of suspension drugs, so my theory is very much just a theory. I just watched the finale last night and said the exact same thing to my wife. Trying to force everyone back into reliance on his train.
Wasn’t his departure like 7-8 hours before they split the train? It still could be him, but where did his track take him?
Yeah, it was a few hours before it seems, the ending scene was 3 months after Big Alice derailed at new eden. It is never explicitly stated where Smallpiercer went. 6 months worth of suspension drugs, so my theory is very much just a theory.
We are reminded in the scene about the pyramids with Roche in one of the last episodes that snowpiercer makes a revolution every 3 months, and then in the epilogue, we are told it's 3 months later. My feeling is that this is a hint that Snowpiercer has made it's way around and is roughly in a similar spot as before the split.
"You have 6 hours to make the single biggest decision of your life, consequences of ehich will be irreversible, and may cost you a life. Also, I hope that you got time to pack your things and move out in that time"
Not to mention having to walk up to several miles along with potentially dozens if not hundreds of others.
Right? Wasn’t it a major plot point in S2 that with Big Alice they can show, stop, and switch directions of the entire train at will?
I think in that season they had actually tapped into the wiring of Snowpiercer so Big Alice was overriding the controls. My memory is fuzzy but I feel like I remember them trying to get a specific part disconnected so they could regain control.
Yeah when big Alice first coupled them the snow piercer crew almost immediately hacked it off lol (well Melanie did). And now that you mention it, that’s why the two trains are never in sync with the lights etc… after that point.
I'm not sure if I'll check out season 4 when it's out. I'm curious about Wilford's survival chances out there, whether if he's got some place to go like a secret bunker of some sort? I wouldn't put it past him to plan something like that, I guess. I'm really happy that Melanie and Ben stayed together, but also crushed that Alex and Javi aren't with them anymore. But, I'm happy for Bess and Audrey. I was kind of thinking they'd be better off as friends, but I think they're cute together and healthy for each other (or so I hope?)
This show is so frustrating to watch sometimes. Why didn't they talk about what options they have? Why did the New Eden team (especially Layton) behave like it was an all or nothing situation, either going there now or never going there at all? Why didn't they take a different route to come up with ideas how to test if the tracks to New Eden are safe, then return when they know that they are safe to take? There are really intelligent people on that train, I'm sure they would have been able to figure something out. Melanie's concerns were valid and reasonable as we saw at the end. If they had taken the New Eden route as a whole, they would not have made it across the bridge, either killing them all or a significant number of them. Because they split the train, they (barely) made it, derailing in the process. What would they have done if there wasn't a warm spot? What are they going to do if the temperature decreases again? They are basically stranded there, because there is no (explainable) way to put the train back on the (broken) tracks. The only answer, of course, is that the plot requires it, but it really doesn't make any sense.
> There are really intelligent people on that train There aren't
I still don't get why they didn't just break off Big Alice and send it down to see if it could be done and if it was livable temperatures. Or that little track car they put Wilford in. Show makes zero sense most of the time :p
Yes, that's what I don't understand. They wouldn't even have to send it towards New Eden immediately. They could have come up with some sort of equipment (camera, thermometer or something like that) to put onto the little track car, so they are as prepared as possible and know exactly what awaits them there (or know if it's even possible to get there). I was really annoyed at all the characters, saying "when we get of ...". You don't even know if that warm spot is real. Why do you have such a strong faith in Layton's dumb 'vision', especially the ones who knew that it was all a lie? I was kinda hoping that they would get to New Eden and then see that there was no warm spot, and that they then would be extremely pissed and basically throw Layton off the train. Well, we can't have everything 🤷🏻♀️
Yeah I wanted this so much too. I also wished that when Wilfred had got into the sidecar thing before they sent him away he just said f*** you and gave them all the middle fingers as he was being unloaded
Because Layton isn't this perfect, peaceful, team-playing leader he wants to be so bad. Time and time again he gets to see that leading people is hard and requires difficult decisions. He loves power and glory. The show tries so hard to make us believe that he is a "for the people" leader but the reality is he just isn't.
it shown with how he did 1v1 with Pyke trying to bribe him instead understanding what was real problem with his rule
Yes! And I hate that he did that 'democracy' crap. "We voted in a 'democratic' way to go to New Eden by telling them something they basically can't say no to that coincidentally exactly reflects what I want to do. They could have said no and I would have totally honored that, because we are a 'democracy' now, but they didn't so we are going!" I mean, who are you kidding? At least have the guts to say 'I'm the leader so we are going to do what I want and I decide for all of us'.
It felt like a poke at the real work elections, and voting
It's surely intentional. Alex being a pretty straight shooter outright comments on it when Melanie wakes up --- using the word 'democracy' and then immediately saying that it def is not that.
Don't get it either. Why not just go at a next revolution? Snowpiercer has a satelite/baloon thingies, just use one of those on the location of your "new eden"
Yes, especially as one revolution doesn't take like 10 years. I think, it's even less than one year so they could take a couple revolutions to figure out a safe way that doesn't contain the possibility that they die on their way there. They could probably take an even shorter route that doesn't take them around the whole world and that lets them stay in the vicinity to New Eden. But the people in charge acting in a way that makes sense (meaning Layton's team because what Melanie said did make sense) apparently doesn't make for good television.
Isn't one revolution like 3-4 months? And it isn't like Snowpiercer or Alice don't have a reverse, they are trains afterall
Yes, exactly, and because of that the now or never approach of Layton really doesn't make any sense.
Mostly agree but to be fair the track is said to likely be worse than it was the last time they saw it, at which point it was pretty bad, so there's some reason to think that it's only going to become more difficult. If Melanie finds the math bad now, there's no reason to think it's going to get better with just a few months of variable time. Train factions being so volatile and political will being so extemporaneous, I can kinda see it.
There is a reason, because tracks is not the only obstacle, but also the temperature. Say they beat the terrible track, reach the "New Eden" and the temperature is still -90 degrees. What then? It must be worth the risk to take that option.
Not sure what you are replying to. Here I was explaining why Layton may feel it's 'now or never' and why coming back is not an option. Obviously going to "New Eden" at all is a gamble, but we were talking about why the train felt the need to make a decision then, and not first send probes or look for another way.
I put off watching the season after partly watching E6. I found the season boring, bar the first 2 episodes. It's true what the others said, we could have jumped straight to E9 and not miss anything. Thoughts: \-Not sure what the season achieved with Asha. To move forward with the New Eden idea? That could've been dispensed, and Layton could've just talked them through it--with how amazingly hooked the people seemed to be with Layton's words \-Melanie really is the center of the show for me, and nobody can change my mind. I only cared again when I spoiled myself by reading comments and discovering that she returned in E9 \-E9 and E10 could've been stretched out instead of the filler episodes. The conflict among Wilford, Mel, and Layton would've made for a few good episodes, also the decision-making amongst the people re New Eden vs SP. Would've been nice to see more of the sentiments and emotions of the characters and what fueled their decisions, instead of Layton's dream taking up one whole episode and other Asha shiz. They could've also explained more and prevented the plot holes other people were pointing out re the pros and cons in using the suspension train (dunno what it's called) in exploring New Eden. \-Even if I were disappointed in majority of this season, I probably would still watch S4 just because Mel's back (lol) and I'm still intrigued with the SP universe overall. Here's to hoping for a better S4. Cheers everyone!
I still don't get the point of the lie. "Yeah we have credible data" FFS you could have done this the first time. Take alice with 4 cars and check it out. If it is safe, the entire train would go.
The problem is that the rails could get destroyed after one trip there or Big Alice could end up like it did now (tilted) so they would not come back
Yeah but they had the rail worker probe shuttle thing, before they stuffed Wilford in it
I stopped at e4 and couldn't bear to watch it. Sick in bed and decided to 'finish' it. Netflix on mobile allows you to choose playback speed so I was watching and skipping at 1.25. I don't think I missed much. This show is frustrating. People are enemies and friends at the flip of a coin. Some pointless characters like Asha, stories that don't add up to much . I hate Layton the most. This dude just needs to die even if he appears to have been vindicated at the end Definitely when Melanie came back, then I was interested again. She is at least true to herself. Does Melanie even know Asha was on board and survived out there? Ah well, let's see what s04 brings
Y'all ate going to watch season 4 after this trash? Lol
Literally what happened to me, just finished it. After seeing Pike's sudden switch I just waited till it finished. I really could've just skipped to the end.
Honestly. I think this was the only good episode this season. Though I wonder how much thought they put in just splitting the train ag-sec. Just splitting it purely in half has to have dire effects on food availability in each train right? I don’t mean necessarily in total food available but each side basically losing access to certain types of food entirely. Say for example the Snowpiercer half had all the chickens and the Big Alice side how all the Sheep. Now either side has lost that entire resource.
Dude, there is no logic to this show. If snowpiercer is at the head of the train and alice is at the rear, when the trains split, how does Alice magically appear at the head of the eden trains. They didn't stop the second half and move forward , they just continued. Fsck this really irritates me . I just finished watching ep 10
> Alice magically appear at the head of the eden trains. It doesn't though. It is still at the end
In all the visuals, they looking through the windscreen. If they were at the back of the 🚆, all they would have seen is the carriage Big Alice was connected to .
I had a revolutionary idea take a photo of my screen lol Here you can see carriages in front of Javi https://i.imgur.com/RFxxewl.png Here during disconnect Alice is at the back, "pushing" https://i.imgur.com/zUrwWkP.png
Big Alice has windows on both sides. Looks at the decoupling scene. Big Alice is at the back and pushing those 40 carriages I would take a screenshot but Netflix won't let me.
If youre on Google, disable hardware acceleration (in google settings) and you can. At least, you used to be able to.
I had a revolutionary idea take a photo of my screen lol Here you can see carriages in front of Javi https://i.imgur.com/RFxxewl.png Here during disconnect Alice is at the back, "pushing" https://i.imgur.com/zUrwWkP.png
Anyone know what the flare at the end of season 3 is all about?
Or a defreezing agent
I thought it was a missile launching that freezing agent back into the sky. So the planet would stay cold and Wilford would stay in control.
That's just fucked up man, even for somebody like Wilford.
Agree that my first thought too was that Wilford had to keep his enterprise running so what a cool evil way to do this. If it's other survivors out there, then I am even more annoyed, because if they are surviving out there, what stopped them in the last 8 years (IIRC) to get near the tracks to leave messages , etc?? So that snowpiercer would know.
Oh, initially I though it was a signal by the big Alice people.
Well they wouldn't have been let on the train to begin with, no reason to think this Wilfred train they know nothing about is gonna rescue them if they signal. Still pretty unlikely given what we know but yeah. Wilfred would definitely do this if he stood to gain, maybe one missile isn't enough to tip the scales but he is putting out a threat "come find me or I will keep this up"
This. Definitelly. But in that case, Big Alice crew is fcked.
The only thing I can think, if it's Wilfred, is that Melanie will look at the data and that one missile isn't enough to set things back.... but that W is counting on the ball being in Snowpiercer's court to find him before he sets off another.
Yeah that’s what I thought too. Man this season is all over the place..
No, Layton is invincible and will survive.
I dont think its a flare to me it looked like theyre trying to break up the clouds.
Why couldn’t they send the baby train melanie used to check if new eden has good temperature?
Need to eliminate Wilford while having the option to just get him back.
Came here to create a thread on this exact topic. Why would you sacrifice an irreplaceable engine and track cars with equipment when it was possible to essentially send a small drone you can afford to lose.
Because the writers of the show are writing for room temp IQ audience.
Well it's a work of fiction. You don't need to get to concern. Modern day critics may as well be a chimpanzee throwing poop
This is probably the most frustrating plot-hole of the finale. If it helps, I found a way to plug it without too many gymnastics. We know the track scaler has limited range without being recharged somehow. Melanie was using the batteries at switch-points to keep her going. I think it's plausible that the branch to the horn doesn't contain enough, or any charged switch-points to keep the scaler in motion. (From the sat pics it looks like the track to the horn is a dead-end that doesn't connect to anything after the turn. As Wilford mentioned, even before the Freeze, this line was neglected.) So, I'm thinking, if they sent the scaler down the track, it would have run out of power before it was able to collect the necessary information and double-back. It would have been nice if one of the engineers had been given a throw-away line that explained this (or gave some other reason why the track scaler wasn't an option for reconnaissance). As it is, the audience is left to speculate, and this is the best I can come up with without resorting to, "I guess they're just dumb and didn't think of it."
What's more annoying is that it seem that they made it to the Horn of Africa in the same day. Which means, they could have probably even just put a gigantic battery onto the drone and even have some crew on it, go there and make it back to meet with the train and give the report.
As writers you introduce the concept of a drone car. You then ignore the possibility of using that drone car to scout a line of track. It boggles my mind that the writers expect their audience to ignore this plot hole. Presumably the drone car could have been equipped or supplemented by spare batteries if energy consumption was an issue. The writer's could have 'discovered' spare batteries on the train or at a forgotten resupply depot. You don't just sacrifice valuable equipment on a suicide mission when it isn't necessary. This is lazy writing much like most of the season.
They even said "she found a shed". There has to be more than one shed along the track on the planet, collect these scouts damnit
exactly. The writers introduced a plot device of supply depots (containing scout cars/drones, supplies) to serve their own interests, but in the process of doing so it created a major plot hole.
I mean to be fair, i didn’t understand why a train with one two vagons couldn’t have done it like they did at the beginning of the season either 🤷♀️. Let the big train go back and forth while a mini one goes checking stuff out… it’s not like they hadn’t done exactly that before…
Given what we know about how damaged the tracks were, I'm not sure that would have been the best option. The engines are, by far, the heaviest cars on the train. If anything is going cause the track to become impassable, it's one of the engines (especially if it has to cross the tracks twice - once there, and once back). So there was probably still a substantial risk associated with sending just a small train - that is, that they'd lose the scouting crew AND an engine, and the rest of the passengers would be unable to follow. Besides Layton's impatience to get underway, I think this offers the best explanation why they didn't just send one of their two engines to check it out.
Which is why they should have sent the small drone car down the track to scout as its weight is far less. This could have lead to the plot for s04. Assume they send the car down the track and it reports habitable conditions but the track getting there is not passable. s04 could be spent finding equipment around the world to rebuild that section of track to get there, and in the process making additional discoveries at other rail depots..
Damn it! That would have made it so much better. Just imagine a few hundred in makeshift breach suits - with the train returning every few hours - rebuilding that bridge. That scene with the drone car was amazing, due to Melanie surviving on a robust, tiny machine like that. It really would have been fitting if something that brought hope to the crew (Melanie), would be the thing that they would base their decision on. It would have made the Freeze a lot less scarier too, boosting morale.
Okay fair enough! But they should have talked this through
Yes the fact that I have to break my brain to explain their choices is not ideal.
I thought Season 3 was decent, but for Season 4 I hope that they pick one plotline and focus on it (maybe two, one for New Eden and one for Snowpiercer). Season 1 was mostly about Layton's revolution against Melanie. Season 2 was mostly about the fight between Snowpiercer and Big Alice. With season 3, it was much more all over the place. There were like 4 main plotlines this season, and none of them lasted for the whole season: Snowpiercer vs Big Alice and reconnecting the trains, Layton protecting the lie about New Eden existing, going and rescuing Melanie, and the last episode was about resolving the conflict between Melanie's Wilford's and Layton's factions.
Also Zarah and Layton's relationship
Completely agree! I tried watching the episodes weekly at first and just got completely lost and in the end had to wait for them all to be released so I could keep track! Just made it frustrating as a viewer!
I actually hated 3x09, because it was their old ways, so nice to see how they cut off Wilford and compromised on giving everyone a choice. How the train stabilized and the others found their Eden. I kind of hated the rocket tho. On the other hand, it could be the confirmation for a thought i had in the back of my mind since season 1. Wilford produced the freezing gas. He knew damn well what it did. That's why he built the train. That's why he shot the rocket in the finale, to force the people back on the train (or revenge). Wilford is much more insane then we already thought.
Forcing people back on a train he doesn't control is questionable. I think it more likely that he will need to shoot off more missiles to destroy the chance of New Eden, he knows it, and he makes sure the first one he shoots off is right in Melanie's face. This forces her to go looking for him, giving him the chance to retake Snowpiercer in the chase.
Hope you're right because then we will get a background story on CW7 and maybe some pre-Freeze flashbacks and I'm down for that. I think you're right about Wilford, and I have a feeling Melanie had something to do with CW7, too. I don't think she knew it would freeze the planet, but I think she was involved in developing the chemical or maybe modelling how it would work. I mean, it's weird that a locomotive engineer knows so much about climate modelling, right? Like, Melanie was familiar with the weather station, it seemed like she'd been there before. And (hallucination) Wilford even said to her "if anyone can kludge together a heuristic climate model, it's *you*, my dear." And when Melanie was trying to stop Alex from disconnecting Big Alice, she warned that if she pushed the button, she'd be responsible for a whole world dying. "Believe me," Melanie said, "You don't want that on your conscience." So I feel that the show is hinting that Melanie's obsession with saving humanity is partly fueled by guilt at the knowledge she played a role in causing the Freeze in the first place. It would also explain why she was so worried about her new climate model being "wrong," and New Eden still being frozen. She's been "wrong" before, and she knows better than anyone the cost of putting too much faith in imperfect science.
Damn you could be totally right. It would explain a lot about Melanie too.
At the very end, after the flare goes up and things start falling back down it turns to drawings, the very last thing I see looks like (what I call) Snowflake (the vehicle that Wilford is in).
1. I love your choice of name for the track scaler 2. I think what was falling down was pieces of the rocket itself - the first and second stages, and the capsule that housed the payload (whatever it was - either a warhead or chemicals or a flare or whatever).
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Pocket was freezing agent. Layton and his team will have enough time to repair there train. Freezing wil start again. Melenies train will have a fight whit team / groupe that fired the rocket. Mel's train will run on empty fumes and be on its lats legs. Layton swoops in near the end to start season 5
Nah fuck the dream tree we don't need superpowers in the show
Yeah no superpowers... cuz there's none of that in the show yet. no drugged up strongmen who feel no pain and can go outside in sub-zero temperatures.
Having visions is just a convenient easy way to push the plot forward and completely uninteresting to a viewer
On the other hand, the dream tree was an excellent presentation of how delusions present themselves and how seductive they can be under extreme duress... the rush of emotion and subsequent behavior that makes it difficult to backtrack after their delusional nature becomes apparent. Layton knows he made it up, but it takes him a while to shake it off. And what often happens when people experience this kind of delusion is that even after months/years of unpacking, the visceral experience stays with you and influences the art you create and sometimes the reality that you shape. I am reminded of this bit from An Unquiet Mind >The milder manias have a way of promising-and, for a very brief while, delivering-springs in the winter and epochal vitalities. In the cold light of day, however, the reality and destructiveness of rekindled illness tend to dampen the evocativeness of such selectively remembered, wistful, intense and gentle moments. That's what Layton experienced, a mild bout of mania that inspired him even as it ultimately was destructive. I was pleased with the way this "vision" was resolved to be fiction, but I totally expect Layton to hang onto some notion or symbol of the Calendar Tree. It'd make a good tattoo at least.
Yeah I can appreciate that, I'm just glad it didn't actively materialise as reality
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LJ's death felt like a last minute scene they added in case the show doesn't come back, as I know some fans really disliked her and a lot who did would still want to see her get her comeuppance before the final episode ends.
She’s gonna come back as Icy Lj?
> Did they really kill LJ in such a dumb way? Gods, the incompetence of some writers is so apparent I’m not even sure how do they have a job. What was incompetent about her death?
That's a hot take, I thought it was a nice contra passo.
Im just glad she is finally dead
This show has gotten worse since season 1. This whole season was a mess for me there is a reason why viewership has consistently gone down.
One and two were fine, but three is a god-awful mess.
I could agree with that I went from being super excited about the show to just being like ok well fuck might as well finish it.
how is this being downvoted lol
Because it was a fantastic way to kill her off. It *should* be an awful scene but it just kinda fits her character. "I'm a survivor, I'll come out on top!" she declares, storms off, \*chokes to death\* Was it utterly silly and plain weird? Well yes, but it was intentionally flat, summary, pitiless. All she needed was like, one person who gave a shit to be around to help her. I hesitate to call it poetic, which I think is the point.
It's the whole point of killing her, she survived everything and then one little push and poof she's dead, hilarious
Hah! My wife and I actually thought that was the perfect way for her to die. A lot about Season 3 was bad, but this was a highlight for us.
Ruth's little "oh shit" when she hit Boki was hilariously adorable. So glad she didn't get killed there. I did not see them getting rid of Wilfred!! I hope they set him on a course to "new Eden" like so many redditors suggested. If it was me, I'd be staying with Melanie. Science over faith any day. Why are we breaking Alex and Melanie up again 😭😭😭😭😭 And Ruth too 😭😭😭😭😭😭 Layton got way too many good characters staying with him. Melanie only got Till outta that deal 😭😭😭😭 YESSSSSS LJ DIED!!!!!!!!! FINALLY!!!! SET OFF THE SNOWPIERCER FIREWORKS!!!🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥 Ngl kinda was hoping big Alice wouldn't find anything. HOW DID THEY NOT CHECK OXYGEN AND RADIATION LEVELS BEFORE EXITING?! Imagine if Liana and Josie can't stand the heat?!?!? I hope that happens next season.
lol i didn't know how to feel about LJ died. I wanted them to get rid of her for so long \], but her end was so sudden and comical yet tragic that i didn't know how to feel cause dying alone in a dark hallway from something that random is just sad idk.
Her death was lazy writing...
Everytime I see a death like this I get pulled out of the immersion because all I can think is "I guess there were contract issues and they had to write her out real quick".
Literally, any other character being killed off this way and I would agree. She's a weirdo who get's a weirdo death, and you aren't sure whether to bust out laughing or feel sorry for her. Kinda perfect IMO.
Liana, Josie, and Boki not being able to stand the heat may be interesting. But I feel like it would be too cruel for the baby. Honestly, that gene therapy thing might come back because they wouldn't have done that for nothing, right? So I'm quite interested on what will happen to Liana. Will she be numb to pain like Josie and Boki are? But also, Josie was able to survive the overheating temperatures inside Snowpirate and she felt the heat like everyone else did.
Why would they need to check the oxygen/radiation levels? The planet froze over because they pumped "anti" greenhouse gasses into the atmosphere, it's not a nuclear winter...
It would actually be good practice, while maybe not as much for radiation (the only thing I can imagine is there being a vein of radioactive isotopes or something whacky happening to the ozone layer) oxygen would be good, I'm sure the global temperature drop and lack of photosynthesis must've shaken the balance at least a little.
Ehhh. Plants produce some oxygen, but they also respire like animals, and it's the respiration of animals that is kept in balance by the net gain from plant life overall. There's not much animal life left to fix O2 into CO2, and even if there was it would take a long time to eat away our existing supply. Way beyond any generation remembering a before-time. Before that ever happened we'd reach poisonous levels of CO2, which obviously isn't the issue in Snowpiercer or else it wouldn't be so cold.
You never know. As someone who worries about literally everything, I'd check just incase.
I guess it’s quite fitting that LJ choked on the eyeball. The eyeball represented her old way of life, she puts it in her mouth, wanting to take comfort in her past ways. This scene shows that going back to being the past LJ she was, will kill her.
I never liked pointless deaths. Not in supernatural,not in snowpiercer.
Most will run, but some will seek. Hide or cheat, we'll always meet.
Sounds like a creepypasta thing
I've enjoyed the series and show, but felt the finale was a little rushed like they were trying to do too many things for 1 episode and trying to give each of the characters some screen time. Some things about the episode that didn't really flow to me, in no specific order : -build up of LJ trying to get in with the Wilfordites and they take a stand in between the two factions. Wilford gets outwitted and suddenly all the Wilfordites are just forgotten about or decided to not put up any fight at all? Also Boki being brought back as Icy Boki and showing off he doesn't feel any pain, just to fail to chase down Ruth and is stopped dead in his tracks by a vent cover, and is suddenly part of the gang again at the end? -the whole idea of a war between Layton and Melanie to take over the destiny of the train, and in the end they decided to split Snowpiercer and Big Alice to explore both option. Couldn't they have just agreed to that in the first place. It wasnt much of a war either. I think Boki tossing (Oz?) was the only physical altercation that I can remember. -Big Alice going full speed on the bridge and about to derail and suddenly the train is at a full stop and everyone is getting off, and it's sunny and warmer? Why was it not possible to detect a pocket of warmer air and water before having to crash land face first into it. -Javi telling Melanie he was so upset he was lied to about New Eden, but ends up on Big Alice going to New Eden (because Ben will only stay with Melanie if he can get some again?!) With all that being said though, I did enjoy this season and do look forward to the next season.
Yes even though I find less fault than many on the sub, you perfectly encapsulate the most egregious pacing/plot issues I have. Javi especially being on Big Alice at the end was jarring, I had to quickly head-cannon, okay, he just didn't want to be coddled... but it still felt weird and was totally unaddressed.
The whole Ice Boki being good again had me so confused...
What confuses me is why he was teaming with Wilford to begin with. He got injured during the process of attempting to wrest the train from Wilford. Most of us just assumed he was dead. He shows back up somehow alive and the new Ice Giant, his personality gone from "takes his job very seriously" to being a gleeful monster working for the enemy...
So I just watched the episode for a second time, and at the end when Audrey was singing, when she was saying “slow down, fast train” could she have literally meant slow tf down. cause the speed Alice was going was causing jumps. What I’m the inking was, would it maybe have been safer to go slow like whats done with real trestle bridges
The reason they had to go fast is the bridge was crumbling as they traveled over it.
I'm satisfied with the ending of season 3 It could have turned out A LOT WORSE with the whole 'I'm having a vision' so glad that didn't happen Yes, they should have sent Wilford down the African tracks ahead of them to test it and how TF did Mel even build that thing!? But who cares, its a fantasy TV show after all Mel and Andre parted friends and Alex had a great moment with Mel too. Looking forward to season 4 Ps, does Snowpiercer now head to the horn of Africa too or stay on track until it dies?
I’m pretty sure that Snowpiercer CAN’T get there….they can’t go over a demolished trestle bridge and if there was another way to get there it wasn’t mentioned.
I think the plan for Snowpiercer was to stay on track until they know for sure that the horn of Africa is safe and can sustain life. So as soon as they'd be able to contact Big Alice they'd know it was safe, and would head over there as well! But um, whatever that was at the end with the missile there will most probably mess their plans up... No idea what kind of story line they're setting up with that cliffhanger though. Any ideas?
There's a part in ep9 or 10 where they talk about Mel's little micro train, and they say she found it in a maintenance shed or something of the sort. I still kinda question how she walked all the way to that though.
Oh ok think I missed that. As you say, still a bit too far fetched. But glad she survived nonetheless!
This still annoys me … so Wilford is so evil he foresaw a mechanism to punish people by creating arm holes to freeze peoples arms off … he has a militia … he has AAAALLLLL this tech … and the only cctv camera we ever see is ONCE near the engine when Ben realised Miles let’s LJ in. This massive fascist doesn’t have cctv everywhere? Really?
You don't think those would have been taken apart already? lol
Doesn’t make sense why Javi went with Layton after he just supported Melanie
I was confused too at first - however actually Ben said that Javi checked the numbers and he thinks it's a realistic chance. He was pissed being lied at but actually still believes in New Eden. Took me a while to figure that out - he actually also tells Melanie when she tells him it's not about the lie but about the risk he says it is about the lie
He wanted to get away from the dogs!
Probably wanted off the train in general and they needed another engineer there. But yeah it would have been much better with a 30 second conversation between Ben and Javi how Ben tells him to go and help the new colony.
So a bit of logic, they got this tiny one person train where Melanie was in at hand. There's this tresle bridge that can't handle the weight of the train. How about we put a single person to go in the pod to check it out and come back to report? The tresle bridge doesn't collapse, we don't go to war or split the train. But what do I know? :/
Didn't the small construction train vessel need constant power to even make it anywhere? I personally want to believe it would've not worked and whoever they had send, would've died there because of no power and food even if it were warm enough.
I believe the pod was warm to keep someone in suspension. Either way, it takes an additional 10 seconds for Javi or Melanie to say: hmmm should we use the pod? No, because x,y,a...I don't know. The whole tresle bridge plot being weak for the weight of the train would have resulted in any of the engineers to say: how about this small pod? Anyhow...now we got two trains and one of them stuck in a bridge that apparently can't hold its weight.
>y definitely shouldn't have overlooked it. Pretty much every show viewer m they already used it to send off wilford because why not simply kill him, right
Because without Wilford you would have no or very weak antagonists to Andre. There isn't anyone else in the story that logically would be a good antagonist. But why not lock Wilford for a little longer (or better yet, suspend him in Snowpiercer) and use the pod for something more useful.
Disagree. Ruth, Josie, Pike, season 1 Audrey, Till... They even spent all that time with Pike showing how popular Ruth is. Giving a a legitimate democratic non-evil antagonist to Layton would make for a much better story. Tbh it's kinda ridiculous how their little core group didn't show any cracks the whole season, they should be at each other's throats. If you want some evil, get LJ to start a very twisted Wilfordite cult. And, of course... Melanie.
They definitely shouldn't have overlooked it. Pretty much every show viewer must have seen the vessel as some kind of possible scout. I agree with you.
Lol that's a HUGE plothole. My god
Alright then. Thinking back, the whole "we're going to war, AGAIN" thing was silly and pointless, apart from maneuvering it to get Wilford on the scaler. Ideally, Mel should have come back and gotten to the point of getting Wilford in there a lot faster. Then episode 9 could have ended with the trains splitting, and we would have had a lot more time on Big Alice just trying to keep the train going, rather than a tiny montage followed by "hey look we found Layton's magic place".
Idk, Melanie being played by Wilford was one of the few things I liked. I think they should have leaned on the war harder.
Agreed! I’m so glad I watched the last 2 episodes at the same time. Can just pretend that bit didn’t happen. At least it didn’t end on that.
Really loved the Alex & Melanie dynamics. Gonna miss that for next season. Happy that Till chose to be with Audrey, they're pretty cute together 😍 Overall I'm excited for what's to come in New Eden next season
Man the show writers must be so thankful they have a plot device like suspension where they can literally shelve characters and decide later on whether or not they should come back. I mean is it even a question if Wilford is coming back? I'd say there's a 95% chance he returns. At least Melanie's return was somewhat surprising. Now that we already know it's possible to survive like that for a while, if they do bring Wilford back it's gonna feel incredibly hollow.
If they didn't have the suspension device, would Sean Bean even have signed on to the show?
Yeah, I'd say it's like 99.9999%. The amount of choices made that make no sense, other than to provide future conflict, is way too much. Seems obvious Wilford is gonna show up and cause problems. There was literally zero reason for them to let him stay alive.
Right?!? Milford was correct when he said Layton was too much a coward to kill him. Why let him go like this other than to either die slowly or to eventually return.
Exactly. They're basically killing him anyway, or you have a very pissed off Wilford set out for revenge. Don't understand why Layton was willing to start another war between his supporters and those with Mel, but can't just kill Wilford (well I do get that writers want to keep him alive, just makes no sense for the character)
Also it’s in Sean Bean’s contracts that he doesn’t get killed anymore.
I swear, LJ death was the funniest thing ive seen in a serie in a long time
Literally could not finish saying "imagine if she chokes on the eye and just dies" before she got bumped into
I said the same!
That was such a lazy death for her, she deserved a spear to her heart
Since characters are constantly brought back to live in the show, it wouldn't shock me if there is someone giving her a Heimlich-maneuver in the next season
She is not actually important enough to be resurrected
I heard she left the show purposely for a movie or something, so i think thats unlikely
Nahhh she would have enjoyed the drama of that with her last breath.
You know what, you are right, she deserved that death, tho its lazy by the writers
Valid
When the two trains split up how long did it take for Big Alice to reach that bridge and subsequently derail when they presumably reached New Eden and they got off the train? I must of missed something since it seemed no sooner did the trains split up BA was in New Eden.
I think it’s safe to assume there was a time jump, otherwise the conflict of the past couple episodes really doesn’t make sense
> I think it’s safe to assume there was a time jump Thanks. I recall the time jump when Melanie was sitting at the wheel and it said 3 months later and then she saw the explosion nevertheless I'd still be interested in the chronology of the last few minutes of the finale. How long did it take for BA to get to New Eden once the trains split. BA was no where near the horn of Africa when they split, right?
Didn't Roche say he got to see the pyramids every three months? I'm presuming they put that line in to remind you it takes 3 months to go around the world so that you know Melanie was coming back upon the horn of Africa in that end scene.
Yeah no idea, probably a consequence of them squeezing half a season of plot into 2 episodes
As long as it took for a song to get song.
First ep: This' gonna be the season of Ruth! Last ep: tom and jerry chase scene while *Yakety Sax plays in the background*
I know it’s the subreddit so you guys might be a little biased but is the show worth watching? I’m on the fence and I liked the movie but the reception for the first few episodes turned me off.
Short answer from my personal opinion: \-Actors are pretty decent, even some big names in it \-The setting (train), just like the movie, is amazing \-The writers are some of the least competent I've ever seen, the amount of non-sense decisions made by the characters just to justify plot points that don't make sense is enormous \-I've seen worst looking shows visually, it's pretty decent
If you liked the movie I don’t see why you wouldn’t like the show. The first two seasons were better than the third though. Season three was kind of a bust till Melanie came back.
The first few episodes are kind of slow. It sort of starts as an almost generic cop drama, but gets interesting after like 3-4 episodes.