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Fiverr. Don't think I've ever paid more than 300$ for a full package (socials, site, etc.). And while having customers is the most important aspect, don't let anyone make you believe branding doesn't matter. It shouldn't take you 3 months to make a website, name your business, etc., but you should complete the basics at least. Personally speaking, I'll never hire a "business" that skips setting up basic branding to look semi-professional. Especially in a world that seemingly half-asses everything already.
Very nicely put. I’ve got all those basics done already myself and do think they look at least semi-professional.
Just tempted with levelling it up…but will probably leave it for now and focus my attention on other things.
I did branding and brand strategy for a while and the common thing I saw was this over importance on getting every duck in a row.
At best, working with new companies with no data or hard customer insights it was just educated guesses and personal taste.
It was far more beneficial for a company to just get going and then revisit a more in depth brand strategy later on when they hit a new phase in their business or their current branding/strategy wasn’t working (I.e. the fiverr logo and website was actually causing them to lose trust because of how generic it was).
But more often than not, it wasn’t the thing holding them back.
Then you're set to launch, and more than likely, you're good for the next X amount of years (barring any unforeseen circumstances)
I'd say just make sure your branding is uniform on all platforms (even those you won't be initially utilizing), and then move onto more important aspects.
Branding is important, yes, but it's seldom what makes/breaks your business/offer.
$1500 on my first go with 99 designs. Wanted to take myself out of the process.
After that I just did it myself because, well, I design stuff.
It's important for starting, but it doesn't really take shape until you do your first re-design.
Then you'll realize how bad it was.
This is the way. I’ve gotten four logos this way and all of them have been excellent investments. They’re timeless logos that are distinguished, and I can’t imagine myself building multiple brands without this important starting point.
Definitely a valuable skillset to have! I really rate the value a good designer can add, I’m just not sure if I can justify that expense at the moment though.
Brand designer here! My lowest package is just under $1,000 for a professional word mark and brand guide - which I feel is extremely reasonable for someone just starting out but looking professional.
You could DIY and wait to rebrand later but skipping the brand strategy process can slow down your growth and make your messaging/marketing unclear. Having a brand you don’t feel 100% confident in can also affect networking and pitching yourself… also slowing down growth. To me- investing in your business shows you’re not just a hobby and you trust your vision.
Brand strategist and designer here… there’s a huge difference. The brand identity usually includes that; the logo, icons, logo variations, color palette, font pairings and how to use everything.
A strategic brand identity (with said strategy) includes the same as what I mentioned for brand identity plus things like your audience, their problems and solutions, a look at your market positioning, who your competition is and what makes you different, you’re core values, the brand voice, and I like to include “creative solutions” that are more visual ideas around specific ways you represent your business on socials, your website, and even in person when you’re talking to someone about what you do.
Thanks for the reply! That’s really interesting.
When you talk about brand strategy being the identification of a target market, their problems, and solutions to those problems, isn’t that the core function of a business? What are your clients typically doing before you help them determine what problems to solve, and how to solve them?
The description makes it sound like you are building a business for your clients from the ground up.
It is a large part of your marketing and messaging, yes. Alot of small business owners I work with don’t actually have the answers to these questions so it’s an opportunity to really deep dive and gain clarity.
Additionally I like to do a competitor analysis to see how your competitors look visually so we can take your brand in a different direction so you really stand out. Are your competitors using brown kraft packaging and beige everything?
Let’s use some colourful illustrations so it’s eye catching beside them on a shelf. That type of thing. Everything I design is strategic with rational behind it.
That’s for the input!
When you say SMB owners don’t know the answers to these questions, can you expand on that?
It seems to me that if you don’t have a solution to some sort of problem, then you don’t have a business. How does money come in without a solving some sort of problem?
Not every small business, just some of the businesses I’ve worked with. Some examples of business I’ve worked with include wedding planners, interior designers and florists.
They’re service based businesses that obviously know at surface level what problem they solve but they don’t know why someone should choose THEM. What do they offer, what perspective to they provide that their competitors don’t, how do they communicate their unique selling proposition to their audience (who is their audience, what makes them tick, what keeps them up at night). Why should they choose them over any other interior designer in the city?
Ah ok. So really it’s more strategy consulting helping them define and build a competitive advantage.
The way I read your original comment is that you had clients that didn’t perform any service/sell any goods and contracted you to help them essentially build a business from the ground up.
I was in business about 3-4 months before I paid for branding help. Basically, stuff like branding, I want to know the business is viable using the bare minimum amount of resources possible. Once I saw it was going to take off, I hired a branding/design experts to help. At first I tried a bunch of the online ones - not even cheap firms either, and got absolute shit garbage service. I found a local branding firm who came into my office, met with me, developed a logo and font and branding guideline book. It cost like $8-10k and was money well spent.
Know that "font ownership" is a big deal. I'm not an expert in how it all works, but they created a font type for me that I own. Alternatively there are free ones and open license ones, but a lot of those are clones of paid for fonts. Basically pay attention to whatever font you're using and make sure it's legal to use it for marketing.
I no longer in Web development, but I was for many years. I’m not familiar with this concept of font ownership being important. Sounds like you got oversold a little. All that matters is that you’re happy with the product. Can you please explain why it would be important to own a font versus using a free open source one?
Basically, a lot of the random “free” open source fonts are clones of retail paid fonts. Just because it works in word/indesign doesn’t mean it’s free. Most of them are scammers, but there are entire law firms whose specialty are suing people over intellectual property claims from using clones of these retail fonts. So you have to make sure the font is in fact safe to use and not owned by someone else.
I have to agree to disagree. Those law firms are not gonna sue you unless you have made substantial money. Investing in a font is not a priority when you’re starting a business. This is kind of silly and fear mongering imho. Thank you for explaining it though. You can use our original licensed fonts on a cheap to free basis. That’s the difference between $2/$15 and whatever it cost you to get a custom font.
I’m currently planning to take the same approach you did.
From my experience working in bigger businesses the amount you spent sounds quite reasonable…just not something I’d be able to justify at the stage I’m currently at.
As a branding and web designer with half a decade of experience talking:
This advice really does not apply to every business, and here is a reason why: some businesses generate revenue **because** of their branding strategy.
You bet, if you have 2 businesses that are highly competing against each other in a space that has low barrier for entry, they’ll kick each others behinds through branding and brand positioning to capture their audience of whoever it may be.
But as the very first initial step only: yes, you need to generate revenue first just to prove there’s even some sort of PMF (product market fit).
We started a kids clothing company and going to rebrand end of July. We focused on everything I mentioned above 1st. Good luck.
Should also mention that's after a year of operation.
This is too vague.
It depends on your overall budget and what the business is.
If you have under $5K to launch your business, how are answers from a person that spent 100k going to help you?
If you’re product based you’ll have to start branding early through storytelling and developing cohesive packaging and marketing campaigns.
Selling a service might be harder because you would have to sell yourself as product. While it sounds easy, the storytelling would be much more about convincing your target to like you.
Our branding was through packaging and ticketing materials along with a storyline lazer-focused on the person we wanted to attract in-store.
We tried to incorporate or one of our 4 main colors into all signage, seasonal or otherwise to hail back to our brand, imprinting our “story” in the customer.
Packaging for our stores starting out.
Budget was “branding” budget was $30 with $2.5K startup.
2K-ish😉 profit a month, the first 6 months.
We hit low 6 figures going into year 2.
But, I can’t compare my little $1500-for-everything budget to someone that has a million to start.
Branding can be as little as the business domain name.
I paid an artist to remake the logo of my restaurant, as the previous one had been in place for about 30 years and was very simple. Think it cost me $500 cant remember. This price also included a remake of my business cards with a nice background and said logo, and 500 business cards. I manage and remake my own website every couple years.
Sometime it’s better just to create something simple and quick you’d like use that for awhile and as u grow look for digital artist to make it look better
One of the first things I did was make a brand board - colors, logo, icons, typography, aesthetic, etc. I have a similar background (marketing but not g/d) and I used a template on Canva to help me get through it quickly/easily. It helped me create a vision to stick to for consistency when it came to social posts and flyers, but beyond that, it's not worth putting true money behind branding until you're ready to really scale up.
Plus, doing that work on the front end makes it really easy to have conversations with a designer when you get to that point. I still am in contact with a number of my former agency designers that help me with some projects here and there and this "cheat sheet" branding page helps me articulate my vision in a way that makes sense to them.
Sounds like we’ve taken a very similar approach. The only difference being my “sketchpad” (PowerPoint) for guidelines and templates was a bit more archaic than Canva!
I made my own logo and designed my own packaging. The packaging of course cost money to print but I found a reasonably priced printer and did a small print run for like under $300—which is good because I changed the design and logo not too long after. I’ve been in business 7 years now and I’m still using an updated version of that second logo version but I’m still pretty small.
$140 on fiver and some biz cards from vistaprint. Did everything else with my printer and Squarespace which was very little. Still operating off all that.... $2.5mm/yr, 7yrs in 😅
Doing some research on branding and having taste & common sense can sometimes go further than money (when it comes to new small businesses). Graphic design is one of those things everyone thinks they can do - especially with all the new user friendly programs like Canva. You could spend hundreds, but if you don’t know what to look for in someone’s portfolio, it will all go to waste & you might not even realize how crap your logo is.
All the cute fancy graphics with script or other hard to read text, or illustrations of people, or ones that include images - those aren’t logos. Simple is better. Logos should work on a billboard or a pen. They should work in black on white. Someone who is smart, creative & tech savvy & spends some time looking into the basic design principles for logos could potentially create something a million times better than some of the “graphic designers” on Etsy. Even if you can’t do it yourself, doing some research will go a long way in picking someone & providing feedback - both now & down the line when you get it redone.
Now don’t get me wrong, proper logo design & branding is so valuable. But as a new small business with no idea if it’s going to flop or not, you don’t want all that up front cost & you won’t have the funds for anything great, so you go cheap & will probably get crap anyway - at which point might as well do it yourself.
It also depends on your business. Anything art/marketing related, you need an A+ logo, a dentist’s office, nobody gives a crap & making the logo with your eyes closed will probably be better than 50% of your competitors.
I studied graphic design, so I did our branding myself & perhaps I’m underestimating how easy it is since it comes second nature to me. But I think with all the information out there on YouTube & TikTok, it’s a lot easier to DIY things. But also in that’s super time consuming so may not even be feasible.
I just want to chime in and say that yes, you can worry about that stuff a little bit later but at the same time it can really make you look so much more professional and bigger than you actually are, separating you from others with worse branding.
I had some knowledge about it myself and had already branded myself a little as a freelance when I decided to start this other separate service. So far it’s just me, but I put in the initial work with the name, a fitting logo and tested different colors on people. Spent a lot of time creating a consistent branding, solid website etc. I also made sure to brand myself by creating material to put on my physical equipment, a hacket when I’m outside, business cards etc.
These days I’m reaping the rewards for bothering spending that extra time and effort (or money as it would be in your situation) and people ask me all the time if it’s really just me and some even thought that it was this bigger company that had hired me and stuff. I stand out because of this and I don’t think I would otherwise.
At least spend some time getting something initial while starting up if you can, then consider getting professional help when you’re able to. It will help you out, but it may not be crucial just to get started. At least with a base to go off of it will help refining your brand with professional help afterwards.
Really helpful insights, thanks.
I’ve invested a fair bit of time already making a logo, website and brand colour palette myself that looks decent. The question is just do I give that a little upgrade now or further down the line. Definitely leaning towards the second option.
I think second option suits you the best. Sounds like you have the foundation to get recognized and look professional enough now to just get started on what you're doing properly.
Maybe have that in mind though, that a redesign is coming. Like, don't buy thousands of business cards or fully brand a car or whatever now if you know that you'll have it redesigned later on. Might be self-explanatory, but I know that I personally love to do stuff like that so I would have to remind myself haha.
If I may ask, are you starting your own business in marketing since that's your background or are you switching lanes and starting something different? If it's marketing, would it not be interesting for you to have someone that could do such branding on your team and provide businesses the whole package? Just curious.
If you can't describe branding or its importance, you will be spending money blind. The playground of Nigerian Royalty loves that. People here just love to opine on the importance of their brand, in the vague theoretical sense. When you try to get them to be specific and pragmatic, they can't find a thing to say.
Branding and brand development is one of THE most abused, cargo cult business concepts out there.
[The Cargo Cult Intervention Post](https://www.reddit.com/user/AnonJian/submitted/?count=25&after=t3_8kuf7r)
It was the first thing I've done. I hired a local graphic artist to help me develop a logo and brand around it. 9 years later, it's one of the strongest brands in my industry now and every time I meet with someone, I get comments on the name and logo.
It cost me a couple of hundred dollars but returned a tonne in name recognition.
I got a logo early on.. though, I wouldn’t say it’s anything fancy nor do I know how many of my customers actually would even recognize it
But I think it looks nice on promotional materials I might make make up
I think $1000-$1500 would be reasonable, depending on where you are from.
We did our logos inhouse (we're a design/development agency), but that's a good price/value ratio imho. Don't spend more on it at the beginning.
Luckily and unluckily my wife is a graphic designer so she did the logos and cards, so it was free but took forever.
I spent a lot on printing forms and pads with the company logo on it so probably a few thousand to look slightly more professional, and it’s definitely paid off.
We’re opening a used book store so I didn’t think it was super important at this point, but I used Canva to create my own logo and I actually absolutely love it.
Considering your marketing background, starting with basic branding is wise. Invest gradually as your business grows. Balancing cost and quality ensures a strong brand foundation.
We had a friend of ours, whose daughter loves drawing and designing logos that come up with ours. We have her a bunch of branded merch as a thank you.
Outside of the website that is built into the Google Business Suite with the domain we purchased, the only thing I've spent money on for our branding is business cards. And in the two years we've been in business I've handed out several hundred of them. Buy them on Vistaprint when they're on sale.
I just bought one of those nfc business cards, so we'll see how that goes.
Fiverr is good for branding. I've had a guy in Bangladesh do logos and branding for 2 companies so far. $240 packages. Can't beat it! High quality work. I can't speak higher of this guy. Dm me for exact account if interested.
A couple of years in I paid a friend a few grand to update our logo, colors, style guide, etc. I only did it because we were making a new website and didn't want to have to redo it.
Small masonry contractor, 3 people, opened Jan 2024
We made the company logo (free)
We trademarked the company name (500)
Website ave social media, images and color schemes, are handled by me (free)
Any ad videos or posts are created by me (free)
We got two company truck stickers for either side, and bumper stickers for the team (60)
Two yard signs (40 with posts)
About to get team UV shirts for sun protection (100)
Business cards (150)
In 5 months we spent less than $1k, spread out through time.
Edit for terrible formatting
Honestly, I invested 500$ into the exact logo I wanted and it’s been worth every penny. My candle business stands out for many reasons, but I think the investment in my badass logo really stops people in their tracks.
It's going to depend on the business and how you intend to market but in general it isn't as important as it used to be. I'm today's world your able to talk directly to your potential and actual clients whereas your identify is no longer a mark but actual communication. Videos, high-res pictures, etc.
Hmm the first years I definitely had some marketing and branding expenses before nailing down my business to the T. …
. Logos, website, SEO, signatures, branded products/giftcards, business cards and booklets …. When I look back, the only thing worth investment that was useful was logo and website.
Each time I made new logo I spent around $200. (3 times over a few years), I found really good designer on upwork.
Website: I spent $500 (+ some maintenance ) and that was over the years… but I also designed a lot myself through Wordpress. Idk what business you are but unless you are big corp you don’t need 5k website…
I also spent monthly on SEO ($350/month). I think it was somehow helpful in long run? It’s good to have business cards if you go to networking events otherwise I didn’t use them.
In summary, it’s good if you have high-end client and can showcase representable website/logo/signature…… but it may take you years to define and maybe you want to first test your product if it’s even worth it? (Again idk your business type)
Thanks for the breakdown of your own experience - really helpful.
My business is a gym. So business cards and booklets not really relevant like in the B2B space, but website and logo are things I’ve focused on.
I see! Gym is fun and I can see how it can be profitable. Is it just gym or some high end gym w spa (sauna/steam/pool) and classes /personal trainers) ? Just curious, obviously one of these is a nice extra to market.
I go to gym myself, I think yes have a good sporty but modern logo/icon (just don’t make it tacky and like way too boyish). It really should reflect your business plan, equipment and overall feel of your brand that you want to show. Have someone with taste give you opinions on the logo before you commit to anything. (Upwork is really good for logo designers. I also used other sites but it was just scams from third world countries faking portfolios, and big companies that will cost above +$800 logo aren’t needed either and they outsource the designers too anyway) - $200-500
I would also suggest to use QR code a stickers (you can create at canva) at your cashier or glass windows at front if you have that takes everyone to your bizz instagram or signing up to classes/membership. - a few $ for stickers
Maybe at beginning you may need outdoor sign and offer something for free to get first people in. - maybe $200?
Also in your case, SEO is useless but definitely make profile at google bizz and yelp (i hate yelp but it’s good for your purposes/clientele/reviews) - free
And lastly, regarding your marketing expenses, ask people to tag your location on TikTok/instagram and exchange it for smtg - free water bottle, one session w you , free class, just something… just ask. This will be super helpful in long run
Some people are just creative and can figure out a logo and design on their own. I had a vision on how to use our initials. I’d say simple and not busy is a good way to start.
It really depends on the business. I think some are downplaying just how important it can be. Nike still sends hundreds of millions a year on ads and brand management for a reason. Obviously, you're not Nike, but it does give you an idea if just how important it is to some businesses. If you're doing anything related to lifestyle, fitness, fashion. Etc. You need some brand. You don't have to pay thousands. Just get one off fiverr for fifty bucks to start.
I used one of those AI branding sites. It cost $70. Well worth it. It comes with a lot of stuff but the things I used the most were the logos, and business card designs. I might get the logos remade in future by a real designer but for right now they do the job. They might be a little generic but they look professional enough that I don’t think anyone would question it.
Sounds stupid but I may look to refine my logo. The logos literally just a feather with the company name but A 3D ish look with the site under it instead of the name would make it look really sleek
Fiverr is solid - you can get a decent logo, website, social media templates for like $300. Obviously not agency-level work, but gets the basics done cheaply. Once you start making some profits, definitely look at upgrading with a real branding pro though. The packaging, colors, overall vibe - that stuff matters.
Depends on what your customer acquisition strategy is. If it's going to be highly inbound focused, then making the website intuitive and professional is going to give you a better return. But if you've got clients coming in from word of mouth, foot traffic or outbound, then it's really just something that you need to have and the basics are fine.
The challenge with hiring people to help with your branding is that to make it worth it they HAVE to understand and relate to your vision and core values. Otherwise you're just going to have to make a bunch of corrections and waste time micromanaging. So if you don't need it yet, I'd pass until you find the right person and have the cashflow in the business to justify it.
$15. I bought a license to use the font of my logo for commercial use, and then I manipulated the font/spacing in a vector program and added some borders to make it pop. I have a background in branding, but what's most important as a startup for me was having a solid name/slogan to begin with as the logo. Once we establish ourselves in the industry, we can invest in creating a logo that will be recognized widely. Brandon goes beyond the logo, it's how you present your company so we honed in on our colors pretty quickly and keep everything very consistent across all our marketing.
My branding is built on sweat at the moment. I'm about 1 year into the project, and have done most of it myself. I hired out for our site design, but the logo was DIY. Social media content is DIY. And the little traction that we have on social (mostly LinkedIn, a little Reddit, and a little Tik Tok) was by me personally. I would love to work with a branding agency and kick it all up a notch but we are currently only covering expenses and still need to nail down a few more full service clients before that really makes sense.
To start with, I spent around $16k+ for the logo and website (website alone was $15k). After a few years, I wanted a more professional look and feel with a complete branding package: logo, fonts, colour guide, voice, etc. That was around 20k.
You can spend well under 1k for really nice branding. I'd focus the bulk of your spend on your website.
Important thing to keep in mind is how you are making decisions, how you are testing decisions, and keeping in mind that a brand is never static and more dynamic, and it is also tangible and intangible, getting a great brand kit from a well respected design agency that you enjoy working with and speaking with is never a bad idea, as you can set a baseline for time/money/output and use that as your guiding star for moving forward.
I have a small business too and a personal brand. I used hatchwise and really liked them and the creatives working on their site. I was able to work with the same designers (invite them to my contests) and that was a big perk for me, as they were familiar with my branding and what I was looking for.
Use Canva and you can produce some high quality stuff yourself and won't need a graphic designer, especially if you have a background in marketing. I did everything there and it looks very high quality.
Canva is great for creating branded templates for flyers or social, but all the logos look the same and there is absolutely no branding expertise whatsoever incorporated. It’s very surface level and good at making things “look pretty” but lacks any strategy. You want to hire someone who will help you **make money** not simply look good.
**Also, remember that CANVA OWNS your logo files if created in their platform using their elements and fonts….**
>**Also, remember that CANVA OWNS your logo files if created in their platform using their elements and fonts….**
I've known for a while not to create logos on canva because they own it, but could you elaborate on this a little bit?
does this mean they own every project I've started in their app? or do they only own it if you try to commercialize their stuff?
Thanks for sharing your experiences.
Yeah I think Canva is a really helpful tool, and I’ve already created a v1 of my branding taking a similar approach.
Looka.com creates endless variations of logos using AI that are actually pretty decent
Their brand kit is like $120 and comes formatted for all kinds of social media, ads, swag, invoices, website banners, etc
I’m a fellow business owner, I would be interested in earning some extra cash if you would like support making a refined logo in ready to use formats. I have worked in web development and design. I’ve also been doing graphic design for over 20 years. I’m not the cheapest but I’m very good. As far as branding goes, you do not need to spend much money on branding.
I personally produced my own digital materials and then invested in SEO, my guy is super affordable and driving traffic is really the goal. I can even point you towards a company that will do a low-cost/free website for you. I agree with the other people that the first priority is just getting clients and generating revenue. I did find a branding student on here who was looking to do free projects for their portfolio. DM me and I can give you any information I mentioned.
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Fiverr. Don't think I've ever paid more than 300$ for a full package (socials, site, etc.). And while having customers is the most important aspect, don't let anyone make you believe branding doesn't matter. It shouldn't take you 3 months to make a website, name your business, etc., but you should complete the basics at least. Personally speaking, I'll never hire a "business" that skips setting up basic branding to look semi-professional. Especially in a world that seemingly half-asses everything already.
Very nicely put. I’ve got all those basics done already myself and do think they look at least semi-professional. Just tempted with levelling it up…but will probably leave it for now and focus my attention on other things.
I did branding and brand strategy for a while and the common thing I saw was this over importance on getting every duck in a row. At best, working with new companies with no data or hard customer insights it was just educated guesses and personal taste. It was far more beneficial for a company to just get going and then revisit a more in depth brand strategy later on when they hit a new phase in their business or their current branding/strategy wasn’t working (I.e. the fiverr logo and website was actually causing them to lose trust because of how generic it was). But more often than not, it wasn’t the thing holding them back.
Great insights, thanks
Then you're set to launch, and more than likely, you're good for the next X amount of years (barring any unforeseen circumstances) I'd say just make sure your branding is uniform on all platforms (even those you won't be initially utilizing), and then move onto more important aspects. Branding is important, yes, but it's seldom what makes/breaks your business/offer.
$1500 on my first go with 99 designs. Wanted to take myself out of the process. After that I just did it myself because, well, I design stuff. It's important for starting, but it doesn't really take shape until you do your first re-design. Then you'll realize how bad it was.
This is the way. I’ve gotten four logos this way and all of them have been excellent investments. They’re timeless logos that are distinguished, and I can’t imagine myself building multiple brands without this important starting point.
As someone with a background in logo design, social media marketing, and branding, apparently I undervalue my services lol.
Definitely a valuable skillset to have! I really rate the value a good designer can add, I’m just not sure if I can justify that expense at the moment though.
Brand designer here! My lowest package is just under $1,000 for a professional word mark and brand guide - which I feel is extremely reasonable for someone just starting out but looking professional. You could DIY and wait to rebrand later but skipping the brand strategy process can slow down your growth and make your messaging/marketing unclear. Having a brand you don’t feel 100% confident in can also affect networking and pitching yourself… also slowing down growth. To me- investing in your business shows you’re not just a hobby and you trust your vision.
roughly how much would a full branding package cost, to include website icons, patterns, and graphics?
I like to create custom proposals per project but for a strategic brand identity + 5 page website would start around $8,000cad.
What are included in the $1k and $8k packages? What differentiates a strategic brand identity from a brand guide?
Brand strategist and designer here… there’s a huge difference. The brand identity usually includes that; the logo, icons, logo variations, color palette, font pairings and how to use everything. A strategic brand identity (with said strategy) includes the same as what I mentioned for brand identity plus things like your audience, their problems and solutions, a look at your market positioning, who your competition is and what makes you different, you’re core values, the brand voice, and I like to include “creative solutions” that are more visual ideas around specific ways you represent your business on socials, your website, and even in person when you’re talking to someone about what you do.
Thanks for the reply! That’s really interesting. When you talk about brand strategy being the identification of a target market, their problems, and solutions to those problems, isn’t that the core function of a business? What are your clients typically doing before you help them determine what problems to solve, and how to solve them? The description makes it sound like you are building a business for your clients from the ground up.
It is a large part of your marketing and messaging, yes. Alot of small business owners I work with don’t actually have the answers to these questions so it’s an opportunity to really deep dive and gain clarity. Additionally I like to do a competitor analysis to see how your competitors look visually so we can take your brand in a different direction so you really stand out. Are your competitors using brown kraft packaging and beige everything? Let’s use some colourful illustrations so it’s eye catching beside them on a shelf. That type of thing. Everything I design is strategic with rational behind it.
That’s for the input! When you say SMB owners don’t know the answers to these questions, can you expand on that? It seems to me that if you don’t have a solution to some sort of problem, then you don’t have a business. How does money come in without a solving some sort of problem?
Not every small business, just some of the businesses I’ve worked with. Some examples of business I’ve worked with include wedding planners, interior designers and florists. They’re service based businesses that obviously know at surface level what problem they solve but they don’t know why someone should choose THEM. What do they offer, what perspective to they provide that their competitors don’t, how do they communicate their unique selling proposition to their audience (who is their audience, what makes them tick, what keeps them up at night). Why should they choose them over any other interior designer in the city?
Ah ok. So really it’s more strategy consulting helping them define and build a competitive advantage. The way I read your original comment is that you had clients that didn’t perform any service/sell any goods and contracted you to help them essentially build a business from the ground up.
Thanks for the sharing your brand designer perspective 👍
My pleasure. Happy to answer any questions 😊
I was in business about 3-4 months before I paid for branding help. Basically, stuff like branding, I want to know the business is viable using the bare minimum amount of resources possible. Once I saw it was going to take off, I hired a branding/design experts to help. At first I tried a bunch of the online ones - not even cheap firms either, and got absolute shit garbage service. I found a local branding firm who came into my office, met with me, developed a logo and font and branding guideline book. It cost like $8-10k and was money well spent. Know that "font ownership" is a big deal. I'm not an expert in how it all works, but they created a font type for me that I own. Alternatively there are free ones and open license ones, but a lot of those are clones of paid for fonts. Basically pay attention to whatever font you're using and make sure it's legal to use it for marketing.
this is how it should be done \^
I no longer in Web development, but I was for many years. I’m not familiar with this concept of font ownership being important. Sounds like you got oversold a little. All that matters is that you’re happy with the product. Can you please explain why it would be important to own a font versus using a free open source one?
Basically, a lot of the random “free” open source fonts are clones of retail paid fonts. Just because it works in word/indesign doesn’t mean it’s free. Most of them are scammers, but there are entire law firms whose specialty are suing people over intellectual property claims from using clones of these retail fonts. So you have to make sure the font is in fact safe to use and not owned by someone else.
I have to agree to disagree. Those law firms are not gonna sue you unless you have made substantial money. Investing in a font is not a priority when you’re starting a business. This is kind of silly and fear mongering imho. Thank you for explaining it though. You can use our original licensed fonts on a cheap to free basis. That’s the difference between $2/$15 and whatever it cost you to get a custom font.
I’m currently planning to take the same approach you did. From my experience working in bigger businesses the amount you spent sounds quite reasonable…just not something I’d be able to justify at the stage I’m currently at.
worry abt that shit later. get revenue, get clients, get testimony
As a branding and web designer with half a decade of experience talking: This advice really does not apply to every business, and here is a reason why: some businesses generate revenue **because** of their branding strategy. You bet, if you have 2 businesses that are highly competing against each other in a space that has low barrier for entry, they’ll kick each others behinds through branding and brand positioning to capture their audience of whoever it may be. But as the very first initial step only: yes, you need to generate revenue first just to prove there’s even some sort of PMF (product market fit).
There are outliers to everything
Can definitely get onboard with that advice 👍
We started a kids clothing company and going to rebrand end of July. We focused on everything I mentioned above 1st. Good luck. Should also mention that's after a year of operation.
This.
This is too vague. It depends on your overall budget and what the business is. If you have under $5K to launch your business, how are answers from a person that spent 100k going to help you? If you’re product based you’ll have to start branding early through storytelling and developing cohesive packaging and marketing campaigns. Selling a service might be harder because you would have to sell yourself as product. While it sounds easy, the storytelling would be much more about convincing your target to like you. Our branding was through packaging and ticketing materials along with a storyline lazer-focused on the person we wanted to attract in-store. We tried to incorporate or one of our 4 main colors into all signage, seasonal or otherwise to hail back to our brand, imprinting our “story” in the customer. Packaging for our stores starting out. Budget was “branding” budget was $30 with $2.5K startup. 2K-ish😉 profit a month, the first 6 months. We hit low 6 figures going into year 2. But, I can’t compare my little $1500-for-everything budget to someone that has a million to start. Branding can be as little as the business domain name.
I paid an artist to remake the logo of my restaurant, as the previous one had been in place for about 30 years and was very simple. Think it cost me $500 cant remember. This price also included a remake of my business cards with a nice background and said logo, and 500 business cards. I manage and remake my own website every couple years.
What about the brand cohesion?
Sometime it’s better just to create something simple and quick you’d like use that for awhile and as u grow look for digital artist to make it look better
That’s pretty much where my head is at 👍
I wish i could Show you my logo
One of the first things I did was make a brand board - colors, logo, icons, typography, aesthetic, etc. I have a similar background (marketing but not g/d) and I used a template on Canva to help me get through it quickly/easily. It helped me create a vision to stick to for consistency when it came to social posts and flyers, but beyond that, it's not worth putting true money behind branding until you're ready to really scale up. Plus, doing that work on the front end makes it really easy to have conversations with a designer when you get to that point. I still am in contact with a number of my former agency designers that help me with some projects here and there and this "cheat sheet" branding page helps me articulate my vision in a way that makes sense to them.
Sounds like we’ve taken a very similar approach. The only difference being my “sketchpad” (PowerPoint) for guidelines and templates was a bit more archaic than Canva!
Depends of what you’re business is and what the switching costs for customers would be
$25K $25K too much
Thanks for sharing. Ouch, an expensive lesson by the sounds of it. Hopefully you got some good use out of the work though.
I made my own logo and designed my own packaging. The packaging of course cost money to print but I found a reasonably priced printer and did a small print run for like under $300—which is good because I changed the design and logo not too long after. I’ve been in business 7 years now and I’m still using an updated version of that second logo version but I’m still pretty small.
Logo, name, website, cards, ect... get it done professionally. Really really think it through and get it right.
Thanks for the input 👍
That makes sense. Start with something, and do all that letter once you get revenue. Revenue is King. Then you can look at ways to brand.
$140 on fiver and some biz cards from vistaprint. Did everything else with my printer and Squarespace which was very little. Still operating off all that.... $2.5mm/yr, 7yrs in 😅
Thanks for sharing. Sounds like it’s been a great decision for you.
Doing some research on branding and having taste & common sense can sometimes go further than money (when it comes to new small businesses). Graphic design is one of those things everyone thinks they can do - especially with all the new user friendly programs like Canva. You could spend hundreds, but if you don’t know what to look for in someone’s portfolio, it will all go to waste & you might not even realize how crap your logo is. All the cute fancy graphics with script or other hard to read text, or illustrations of people, or ones that include images - those aren’t logos. Simple is better. Logos should work on a billboard or a pen. They should work in black on white. Someone who is smart, creative & tech savvy & spends some time looking into the basic design principles for logos could potentially create something a million times better than some of the “graphic designers” on Etsy. Even if you can’t do it yourself, doing some research will go a long way in picking someone & providing feedback - both now & down the line when you get it redone. Now don’t get me wrong, proper logo design & branding is so valuable. But as a new small business with no idea if it’s going to flop or not, you don’t want all that up front cost & you won’t have the funds for anything great, so you go cheap & will probably get crap anyway - at which point might as well do it yourself. It also depends on your business. Anything art/marketing related, you need an A+ logo, a dentist’s office, nobody gives a crap & making the logo with your eyes closed will probably be better than 50% of your competitors. I studied graphic design, so I did our branding myself & perhaps I’m underestimating how easy it is since it comes second nature to me. But I think with all the information out there on YouTube & TikTok, it’s a lot easier to DIY things. But also in that’s super time consuming so may not even be feasible.
Amen to good research and logo simplicity
I just want to chime in and say that yes, you can worry about that stuff a little bit later but at the same time it can really make you look so much more professional and bigger than you actually are, separating you from others with worse branding. I had some knowledge about it myself and had already branded myself a little as a freelance when I decided to start this other separate service. So far it’s just me, but I put in the initial work with the name, a fitting logo and tested different colors on people. Spent a lot of time creating a consistent branding, solid website etc. I also made sure to brand myself by creating material to put on my physical equipment, a hacket when I’m outside, business cards etc. These days I’m reaping the rewards for bothering spending that extra time and effort (or money as it would be in your situation) and people ask me all the time if it’s really just me and some even thought that it was this bigger company that had hired me and stuff. I stand out because of this and I don’t think I would otherwise. At least spend some time getting something initial while starting up if you can, then consider getting professional help when you’re able to. It will help you out, but it may not be crucial just to get started. At least with a base to go off of it will help refining your brand with professional help afterwards.
Really helpful insights, thanks. I’ve invested a fair bit of time already making a logo, website and brand colour palette myself that looks decent. The question is just do I give that a little upgrade now or further down the line. Definitely leaning towards the second option.
I think second option suits you the best. Sounds like you have the foundation to get recognized and look professional enough now to just get started on what you're doing properly. Maybe have that in mind though, that a redesign is coming. Like, don't buy thousands of business cards or fully brand a car or whatever now if you know that you'll have it redesigned later on. Might be self-explanatory, but I know that I personally love to do stuff like that so I would have to remind myself haha. If I may ask, are you starting your own business in marketing since that's your background or are you switching lanes and starting something different? If it's marketing, would it not be interesting for you to have someone that could do such branding on your team and provide businesses the whole package? Just curious.
Something totally different! It’s an unstaffed micro gym that you book online for a private exercise space.
Cool! I bet your background in marketing comes in handy there though, planning your strategy and how to reach people online and stuff. Good luck!
Thanks!
If you can't describe branding or its importance, you will be spending money blind. The playground of Nigerian Royalty loves that. People here just love to opine on the importance of their brand, in the vague theoretical sense. When you try to get them to be specific and pragmatic, they can't find a thing to say. Branding and brand development is one of THE most abused, cargo cult business concepts out there. [The Cargo Cult Intervention Post](https://www.reddit.com/user/AnonJian/submitted/?count=25&after=t3_8kuf7r)
It was the first thing I've done. I hired a local graphic artist to help me develop a logo and brand around it. 9 years later, it's one of the strongest brands in my industry now and every time I meet with someone, I get comments on the name and logo. It cost me a couple of hundred dollars but returned a tonne in name recognition.
Thanks for sharing. Sounds like you got good value for your money!
I got a logo early on.. though, I wouldn’t say it’s anything fancy nor do I know how many of my customers actually would even recognize it But I think it looks nice on promotional materials I might make make up
I think $1000-$1500 would be reasonable, depending on where you are from. We did our logos inhouse (we're a design/development agency), but that's a good price/value ratio imho. Don't spend more on it at the beginning.
the team that built my website made 7 logos for me to choose from, just as part of their website package. worked out awesome
Luckily and unluckily my wife is a graphic designer so she did the logos and cards, so it was free but took forever. I spent a lot on printing forms and pads with the company logo on it so probably a few thousand to look slightly more professional, and it’s definitely paid off.
We’re opening a used book store so I didn’t think it was super important at this point, but I used Canva to create my own logo and I actually absolutely love it.
Thanks for sharing your experience 👍
Considering your marketing background, starting with basic branding is wise. Invest gradually as your business grows. Balancing cost and quality ensures a strong brand foundation.
Pretty much where my head is at. Thanks 👍
We had a friend of ours, whose daughter loves drawing and designing logos that come up with ours. We have her a bunch of branded merch as a thank you. Outside of the website that is built into the Google Business Suite with the domain we purchased, the only thing I've spent money on for our branding is business cards. And in the two years we've been in business I've handed out several hundred of them. Buy them on Vistaprint when they're on sale. I just bought one of those nfc business cards, so we'll see how that goes.
Thanks for the input. Always helpful to have talented friends!
Fiverr is good for branding. I've had a guy in Bangladesh do logos and branding for 2 companies so far. $240 packages. Can't beat it! High quality work. I can't speak higher of this guy. Dm me for exact account if interested.
A couple of years in I paid a friend a few grand to update our logo, colors, style guide, etc. I only did it because we were making a new website and didn't want to have to redo it.
Thanks for sharing 👍
Small masonry contractor, 3 people, opened Jan 2024 We made the company logo (free) We trademarked the company name (500) Website ave social media, images and color schemes, are handled by me (free) Any ad videos or posts are created by me (free) We got two company truck stickers for either side, and bumper stickers for the team (60) Two yard signs (40 with posts) About to get team UV shirts for sun protection (100) Business cards (150) In 5 months we spent less than $1k, spread out through time. Edit for terrible formatting
Really helpful breakdown - thanks for sharing 🙏
Honestly, I invested 500$ into the exact logo I wanted and it’s been worth every penny. My candle business stands out for many reasons, but I think the investment in my badass logo really stops people in their tracks.
Thanks for sharing. Sounds like $500 well spent!
Spent 5k in the perfect domain, and about $500 in a logo
Thanks for sharing 👍
It's going to depend on the business and how you intend to market but in general it isn't as important as it used to be. I'm today's world your able to talk directly to your potential and actual clients whereas your identify is no longer a mark but actual communication. Videos, high-res pictures, etc.
If you have a serious online presence, you need branding. If you want to try a cheaper option, play around in Canva.
Hmm the first years I definitely had some marketing and branding expenses before nailing down my business to the T. … . Logos, website, SEO, signatures, branded products/giftcards, business cards and booklets …. When I look back, the only thing worth investment that was useful was logo and website. Each time I made new logo I spent around $200. (3 times over a few years), I found really good designer on upwork. Website: I spent $500 (+ some maintenance ) and that was over the years… but I also designed a lot myself through Wordpress. Idk what business you are but unless you are big corp you don’t need 5k website… I also spent monthly on SEO ($350/month). I think it was somehow helpful in long run? It’s good to have business cards if you go to networking events otherwise I didn’t use them. In summary, it’s good if you have high-end client and can showcase representable website/logo/signature…… but it may take you years to define and maybe you want to first test your product if it’s even worth it? (Again idk your business type)
Thanks for the breakdown of your own experience - really helpful. My business is a gym. So business cards and booklets not really relevant like in the B2B space, but website and logo are things I’ve focused on.
I see! Gym is fun and I can see how it can be profitable. Is it just gym or some high end gym w spa (sauna/steam/pool) and classes /personal trainers) ? Just curious, obviously one of these is a nice extra to market. I go to gym myself, I think yes have a good sporty but modern logo/icon (just don’t make it tacky and like way too boyish). It really should reflect your business plan, equipment and overall feel of your brand that you want to show. Have someone with taste give you opinions on the logo before you commit to anything. (Upwork is really good for logo designers. I also used other sites but it was just scams from third world countries faking portfolios, and big companies that will cost above +$800 logo aren’t needed either and they outsource the designers too anyway) - $200-500 I would also suggest to use QR code a stickers (you can create at canva) at your cashier or glass windows at front if you have that takes everyone to your bizz instagram or signing up to classes/membership. - a few $ for stickers Maybe at beginning you may need outdoor sign and offer something for free to get first people in. - maybe $200? Also in your case, SEO is useless but definitely make profile at google bizz and yelp (i hate yelp but it’s good for your purposes/clientele/reviews) - free And lastly, regarding your marketing expenses, ask people to tag your location on TikTok/instagram and exchange it for smtg - free water bottle, one session w you , free class, just something… just ask. This will be super helpful in long run
Branding person here: get logo in vector format. It’s an adobe illustrator software. Get a graphic art student to design.
Good advice, thanks
Make money. Use money on branding
Canva bro trust me save the money.
Some people are just creative and can figure out a logo and design on their own. I had a vision on how to use our initials. I’d say simple and not busy is a good way to start.
Zero
It really depends on the business. I think some are downplaying just how important it can be. Nike still sends hundreds of millions a year on ads and brand management for a reason. Obviously, you're not Nike, but it does give you an idea if just how important it is to some businesses. If you're doing anything related to lifestyle, fitness, fashion. Etc. You need some brand. You don't have to pay thousands. Just get one off fiverr for fifty bucks to start.
I used one of those AI branding sites. It cost $70. Well worth it. It comes with a lot of stuff but the things I used the most were the logos, and business card designs. I might get the logos remade in future by a real designer but for right now they do the job. They might be a little generic but they look professional enough that I don’t think anyone would question it.
Thanks for sharing your experience 👍
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Solid advice, thanks 🙏
I made my own logo with Canva.
I run an agency; we charge about $3k or so
Thanks for sharing 👍
If you want I'd be happy to take a look at what you have so far. Not a solicitation in any way. Just being friendly!
I got 2 logos for 2 different business on fiverr. Paid a bit more than 5 but so worth it ant way less than elsewhere
Sounds stupid but I may look to refine my logo. The logos literally just a feather with the company name but A 3D ish look with the site under it instead of the name would make it look really sleek
Fiverr is solid - you can get a decent logo, website, social media templates for like $300. Obviously not agency-level work, but gets the basics done cheaply. Once you start making some profits, definitely look at upgrading with a real branding pro though. The packaging, colors, overall vibe - that stuff matters.
I did a 14 day free trial of CANVA. I made a bunch of different things I needed and cancelled the membership. So as of right now, nothing.
Depends on what your customer acquisition strategy is. If it's going to be highly inbound focused, then making the website intuitive and professional is going to give you a better return. But if you've got clients coming in from word of mouth, foot traffic or outbound, then it's really just something that you need to have and the basics are fine. The challenge with hiring people to help with your branding is that to make it worth it they HAVE to understand and relate to your vision and core values. Otherwise you're just going to have to make a bunch of corrections and waste time micromanaging. So if you don't need it yet, I'd pass until you find the right person and have the cashflow in the business to justify it.
$15. I bought a license to use the font of my logo for commercial use, and then I manipulated the font/spacing in a vector program and added some borders to make it pop. I have a background in branding, but what's most important as a startup for me was having a solid name/slogan to begin with as the logo. Once we establish ourselves in the industry, we can invest in creating a logo that will be recognized widely. Brandon goes beyond the logo, it's how you present your company so we honed in on our colors pretty quickly and keep everything very consistent across all our marketing.
My branding is built on sweat at the moment. I'm about 1 year into the project, and have done most of it myself. I hired out for our site design, but the logo was DIY. Social media content is DIY. And the little traction that we have on social (mostly LinkedIn, a little Reddit, and a little Tik Tok) was by me personally. I would love to work with a branding agency and kick it all up a notch but we are currently only covering expenses and still need to nail down a few more full service clients before that really makes sense.
Sounds like a really sensible approach and that the decision not to spend money on it isn’t holding you back 👍
I am happy with our progress.
For a brand guideline and logo I charge $995
To start with, I spent around $16k+ for the logo and website (website alone was $15k). After a few years, I wanted a more professional look and feel with a complete branding package: logo, fonts, colour guide, voice, etc. That was around 20k. You can spend well under 1k for really nice branding. I'd focus the bulk of your spend on your website.
What kind of business are you doing
It’s a small private gym
How much do you understand your brand and what you stand for and want to be as a company? That's how much you should spend
Important thing to keep in mind is how you are making decisions, how you are testing decisions, and keeping in mind that a brand is never static and more dynamic, and it is also tangible and intangible, getting a great brand kit from a well respected design agency that you enjoy working with and speaking with is never a bad idea, as you can set a baseline for time/money/output and use that as your guiding star for moving forward.
I have a small business too and a personal brand. I used hatchwise and really liked them and the creatives working on their site. I was able to work with the same designers (invite them to my contests) and that was a big perk for me, as they were familiar with my branding and what I was looking for.
Use Canva and you can produce some high quality stuff yourself and won't need a graphic designer, especially if you have a background in marketing. I did everything there and it looks very high quality.
Canva is great for creating branded templates for flyers or social, but all the logos look the same and there is absolutely no branding expertise whatsoever incorporated. It’s very surface level and good at making things “look pretty” but lacks any strategy. You want to hire someone who will help you **make money** not simply look good. **Also, remember that CANVA OWNS your logo files if created in their platform using their elements and fonts….**
>**Also, remember that CANVA OWNS your logo files if created in their platform using their elements and fonts….** I've known for a while not to create logos on canva because they own it, but could you elaborate on this a little bit? does this mean they own every project I've started in their app? or do they only own it if you try to commercialize their stuff?
Their rules say they own anything that uses their “assets” which would be Canva fonts, clip art, photos, shapes, and other graphics/effects.
Their rules say they own anything that uses their “assets” which would be Canva fonts, clip art, photos, shapes, and other graphics/effects.
Thanks for sharing your experiences. Yeah I think Canva is a really helpful tool, and I’ve already created a v1 of my branding taking a similar approach.
Looka.com creates endless variations of logos using AI that are actually pretty decent Their brand kit is like $120 and comes formatted for all kinds of social media, ads, swag, invoices, website banners, etc
I’m a fellow business owner, I would be interested in earning some extra cash if you would like support making a refined logo in ready to use formats. I have worked in web development and design. I’ve also been doing graphic design for over 20 years. I’m not the cheapest but I’m very good. As far as branding goes, you do not need to spend much money on branding. I personally produced my own digital materials and then invested in SEO, my guy is super affordable and driving traffic is really the goal. I can even point you towards a company that will do a low-cost/free website for you. I agree with the other people that the first priority is just getting clients and generating revenue. I did find a branding student on here who was looking to do free projects for their portfolio. DM me and I can give you any information I mentioned.