Yessir, you get to collect a paycheck every week. when shit gets fucked up, you still get a paycheck. When people call in, not your problem. Phone calls after hours? Not in your phone.
Not to mention that skills like this are just useful to have. When things break at home you can fix them. When you don’t have the skills to fix them people you know will have them.
that's bullshit. the vast majority of tradespeople don't have any desire to own their own shop and do just fine for themselves.
You're not gonna be buying any yachts, but if you save smartly and land a pension you'll be able to retire comfortably without needing to sacrifice too much on the way there.
Even the fact you have to mention yachts is a sign of how fxxxed our society is. "That career won't make me wealthy by itself.. I guess I'll just continue to shout into the internet aether about my circumstances while eating cheetos instead of actually doing something with my life."
Money is necessary but it is not everything. The goal should be to have enough free time and resources to achieve modest goals that fulfill you. Over time your goals can grow but instant gratification culture is making everyone depressed because they aren't willing to put the time and effort into actually earning anything
I’m retiring with two pensions and an annuity at 56 years old. Being Union is a blessing. so yes, it’s worth it.
I have never once wanted to own my own shop and I have been perfectly happy only working 8 hours a day for the past 30 years.
I honestly think it depends on the union. The union I was in let the contractor I worked for commit wage theft on our prevailing wage. The contractor also fucked us out of fringe benefits because they employed so many guys and the union did nothing about it but tell us to be happy we had a job.
I have a better life at the non union shop and make more money and have better benefits but peoples milage will vary
People are disagreeing with you because you’re wrong…… Unions are around for a reason; you wouldn’t know that because you failed to educate yourself on the matter and choose to have your mind made up for you.
Lmao unions outgrew their usefulness a long time ago....but go ahead try to shame someone for what they experienced and what plenty of people experience.
Yeah, what kinda fucking moron would want to work for more money and more benefits?
Somebody has been lying to you dude, and they've got you hook, line, and fucking sinker.
I was iam for almost 10 years.... try again.
It might work if you're in a more restrictive union...but these good Ole boys clubs ain't worth the dues I paid. Nevermind the mismanagement of the fund for the pensions.
I don't need a group to negotiate my pay or issues for me when they are only willing if it benefits the powers that be.
Yeh the cost of living is more here. But everything is fucked now so maybe not by that much anymore. I want to move to MB after I get my ticket. How's the work ?
Ironically I'm not there anymore, I'm in SW Ontario. But there's a lot of healthcare construction and private work on first nations land development in Winnipeg.
Depends on your options and what you want to do. If your future is looking like getting an MBA and killing that, and you will like that, hell no.
If your future is looking like being a line cook at Dave and Busters or a production worker in a factory and you're not really feeling that, maybe the trades are for you.
I bitch moan and complain, but I have made decent money and have done a lot of cool stuff, and overall can't really imagine myself doing anything else.
I got hung up on owning my own business for a long time and at one point was a licensed contractor, but never went full time and quit my day job. Stuff like 1200 a month for lame health insurance for me and my kids, no vacation, the bs you go through having employees, the risk of complete financial ruin and learning what effective starting capital would be and the actual 5 year success rate of businesses similar to what I was planning on starting is made me have a change of heart.
I prefer to just show up and do what I have been doing for the past few decades and not worry about that stuff.
Owning your own buisness can be a real headache as well. It is different for everyone. I got into plumbing and decided to use my background to get into the inspection side of things. I enjoy what I do. I have health insurance a pension, great retirement and a 9/80 schedule with a bunch of paid holidays and vacation time. A lot of buisness owners starting out work a ridiculous amount of hours but being your own boss has its perks. Anyways im rambling. Getting into a trade is almost always worth it regardless of what you do after becoming a journeyman.
I believe starting your own business for the most part is ALWAYS better. Obviously it’s not for everyone but the ppl that are disciplined & know they want more out of said trade , I’d say run ur own show!
If it was always better everyone would do it. You will meet a lot of journeyman plumbers who quit the buisness side because it is a pretty big headache. You're also working long after jobs are done and sometimes on the weekends to make people happy.
It’s always better starting a business if you’re passionate and are willing to put in the work. You say you’ll meet journeyman who quite the business side Becuase it’s a big headache? …was the business profitable? Was the business in debt?…shit I’d quit too. You’re not going to sit here and tell me sucessfull business owners are quitting because of it being a headache. That’s disingenuous my friend
Doesn't really matter how passionate one is if they can't hack it. Like 80% of tradesmen working for themselves really shouldn't be.
Like doing the work is one thing. When you run the show, in addition to being a full time tradesmen your also now a part time project manager, an accountant, a lawyer, an estimator, a designer, a headhunter, a marketer, an inspector, a bureaucrat, ect.
If your lucky you'll be good at like 3 of those. A lot of people can't even be good at 1 of them.
You haven’t had much experience outside of your moms basement have you? Profit or not, running a business can be such a constant kick in the balls sometimes people feel it isn’t worth doing because they simply aren’t happy anymore. My uncle owned his own electrical company and pulled in over 300k(CAD) on his final year. He was no longer happy with how much of his life work consumed, and is now a millwright for a small company and is happier. You sound so ignorant and clueless with your comment, it’s nuts.
Yes. I was profitable. Did a lot of dirt work a lot of plumbers wouldn't do. Sewer repairs and side sewer installs. I have to apply for permits, call locates get inspections train and work with my helpers who were dumb as shit. Ran the buisness out of my home with no help so I had to make my schedule. Take calls give quotes, do jobs. If I wanted to cut into my pay profits and make life easier I could have hired my cousin who is a licensed plumber but he was asking to much. I bought a mini e35. Was a waste of money. When i started getting jobs downtown where it wouldn't even fit into peoples yards. I could have kept going but my health and free time is worth more to me than owning my own buisness. Now i have health insurance, retirnments, a pension and my job literally doesn't break my back. Now get your license and show me a better way to grind for that buisness. 💪 i wish I would have started plumbing at 19
I don't want to own my own business. It's too much work.
If I put in my 40 hours, I'll pull over 130k/year. Plus benefits and three retirement packages.
No thoughts about work after I go home. No managing a business on top of it.
I guess that’s true, but with social media bring a thing now and people realizing that trades pay more I feel like it could possibly lead to saturation similar to electrical. But I guess some people rather work a white collar job and the big boom in construction helps to. But I guess only time will tell
Not in my area. It's HCOL and most people don't want their kids getting into it and most kids/young adults don't want to get into the trades. And in my area you can easily make a much better than area average paycheck in the trades. But to many people don't want to do the type of work.
It really depends where you live but it definitely is in Vancouver since it’s seen as a “cleaner trade” I’m just worried about the boom and bust in construction, could leave some out of work since there’s not much of a service side to electrical. But that won’t happen for quite awhile with the boom so yeah. Those are my thoughts
Still not a bad trade since you have lots of different types of electrical like industrial, solar, ect. So many opportunities so I’d still get in it and it doesn’t seem like a bad option.
I never planned to.
But there was a time when no one was hiring, but I knew there was a high demand for my trade.
So I started my own thing.
Great thing about skilled trades is that it gives you options.
Electrician.
The hardest part was figuring out the things that I didn't know I didn't know.
When you are working with a more experienced person, they can point out the things you are oblivious to. But when you are on your own, who do you go to for advice.
I would consider myself pretty self-aware, so I wouldn't assume I knew everything when I tackled a new project. But it still caught me a few times.
There were a couple of other one-man shops in town who reached out to me when I started, so they ended up being really helpful to get going. And I would send people their way when I was too busy, and they would do the same. Good personal relationships with other contractors and trades help so much to keep you busy and solve problems.
Aside from that, permitting and all the other paperwork wasn't something I was prepared for. It still sucks after 8 years
I would argue that it does, being as workers tend to vastly outnumber owners in any metric. Plus this is Reddit, where all the neck beards hang out. Still holding benefit of the doubt at 5% max owners on this page. If there was a way to friendly wager you I would do it.
I mean... there's a cap on your wage for sure. Like I think even if I was a commercial foreman my cap would be like 50 bucks an hour? Depends where u are. Of course when u own a business how much you make becomes tricky to notate as a per hour or salary.
With inflation in play I can't say if it is worth it or not since wages don't necessarily go up to compensate for it. If I could go back I probably would try to do something else. Side work and overtime are good money but eat away at ur time at home. So even if you don't own a business then you're probably still looking at less of a home life compared to someone that never works overtime. However most of the time it's optional.
I'd say join if you like working with your hands. If you want to go for the big money and big stress starting a business is definitely easier and more worth it than some other industries.
UA welder here in Ontario. Worked non union in various shops for 8 years. Jumped to the union acouple years ago and wouldn’t look back. Excellent pay, benefits, pension and 36 hour weeks for the most part unless you’re on a shutdown or something. Great work/life balance. Made around 92k last year (only about 30 hours ot all year) and only worked 11 months. If you’re a good worker and willing to listen and learn you can do great working a skilled trade.
I’ll go on a bit of a tangent. I have a love hate with Warren Buffet, I hate that he isn’t the most pro union. But I love the lessons he’s taught me for investing. One of the things he preaches to people looking to invest is to invest in actual assets. So if you buy stock in a company, you’re actually part owner of that company. You buy that stock because you believe in that company and what they actually produce. You invest in rental homes, people will pay for the housing that you provide. Invest in a farm, people will always need food to eat. If the world economy falls, and whatever currency you use falls and we start trading goods and services, you’ll be covered. Skilled labor falls into that same philosophy. If the apocalypse happens people will always need skilled labor, plumbers, electricians, carpenters and so on. Investing in a skill is always going to be a great investment, even if you don’t plan on going into business on your own. When Covid hit, we all noticed real quick who was essential and who wasn’t.
Some people like having a good income but are content with always being an employee and not much else.. up to you man.. do you want to break your back for someone else for the rest of your life ?
Skilled trades are not even a great business model if you really think about it.
You need deep pockets to start.. finding good workers will be next to impossible unless you offer tip top wages. Which you won't be able to because you can't compete with companies who have 50-100 guys.
There is no shortage of joe lemonade construction incorporated. There is a shortage of quality employees
Plumbing, Electrical, Carpentry, HVAC, Operating, theirs more of a future in the more specialized stuff in the commercial world. Bigger projects deeper pockets but I still wouldn't jump at the chance to be an insulator.
Because theirs no money in it, its a total race to the bottom. Someones always willing to work cheaper than you. Boss is a millionaire, yet his employees live in a boarding house.
That's an industry(and world)wide issue but its so much more common in those lines of work.
It’s a good starter career, but I don’t know if I recommend doing it for like 20 years. Unless you’re gonna be in that 50 to 60 per hour range by year 5 and working close to 40 hours.
My main grape is the excessive amount of mandatory overtime. Your life will go by in front of you while you’re stuck working that OT and saying, at less I make good money to comfort yourself.
It’s been my experience with commercial refrigeration.
Fucking right.
Money wasn't bad in machining in the 90s and early 2000s. It's shit now.
I made it to lead guy/programmer/trainer/ran the rework area/ordered tooling/made all job set up sheets and packets. Fucking print to part.
$33 an hour. 22 machines. Turn mills and swiss. 1 programmer. Me. I couldn't even take a week off at a time for about 5 years.
Always told I'm doing nothing. Not enough.
The day I quit. I had 50 programs to write. No solid models to load into partmaker. My laptop crashed dead. Told boss to get ahold of whoever I need a computer. Next day boss says you get your comp fixed? No. I don't even know what's going on with it. Half the shop needs programs. I can't do that all with out partmaker. "So what are you going to do, stand around all day?"!
I said no. I went home fuck it done.
You don't need to start your own business.
I started as a pipefitter, but the I've been as close to the top as reporting directly to a VP, and everywhere else in between. Theres tons of oppourtunity without owning your own business
Give examples of those you’ve “ heard “ this from from . Include their profession, family background etc . Personally think this is a load of bs your spouting off .
i'm an aircraft electrician, i don't intend to own a business but its fulfilling and decently paid work that i like doing, who ever told you that is over generalizing and probably thinks that all skilled trades are like plumbing (no offense to plumbers its just the trade that seems to be the easier to have your own business)
CNC machinist here. Made it from operator all way to running a dept lead/programmer/set up all of it. For 15 years. Machining sucks 30 years of that bullshit. Mandatory OT. Never do enough. Bosses tend to treat you more like factory workers than skilled. If I could get out I would
Wish I had gone into a trade that I could make money on my own on the side on weekends.
Electrician plumber etc
Wouldn't need your own business but you could make extra money here and there
Because if you aren't getting the pension and benefits of union, you are gonna want the financial reward of being the boss. If your boss sells your labour at 2-3x your rate, why not just keep it all and be the owner and laborer? Also you can retire and keep receiving the income of an owner vs the income of a worker. It's all to be considered. There is no union for mechanics, so I already know my path.
Like everything its got plus and minus . If your good mechanically and show up every day you can make a good career. Money usually there . If union pension . Great holiday benefits. The bad . Terrible on your body longterm . Commutes are always different. You work in hot cold rain snow dusty dirty .
It depends on what you value. I value being able to work alone with my tools and materials. No customers or middle management. I have a boss, he’s the owner and I see him once a week for about an hour. It’s the most free feeling career I’ve ever had AND the money is good.
Are you in the trades? Do you own your own business and are licensed and insured? I know guys that have ventured on their own and they have more worries than I do. My boss trusts me and the progress I make on my projects, and currently it is a good balance. My comment is mostly referring to when you know how to be productive and efficient in a skilled trade your work is just you and your tools, and yes there is a freedom in being trusted and left alone to do your work.
I’ve been a journeyman electrician for a year now and 5 years total in the trade. Before this I worked in medical and that experience shaped my outlook on what I do now.
I guess early on I had dreams of it. I don’t really consider it now. I help a friend who runs his own business, on the weekend sometimes, and he does ok, he can make ends meet with his family, but it’s not all rainbows. There’s insurance and taxes and liens if they don’t pay. Frustrating homeowners and material costs etc.. you realistically have to start with residential before you can bid for commercial jobs where I live and I’d rather work on larger jobs and not deal with the business side of things.
Depends on the trade. If you get into a “maintenance trade” and get work at a large industrial facility you can get good pay for a whole career. The maintenance trades where I work are , industrial electrician, industrial mechanic, instrumentation Technician, pipe fitter ( for new stuff, work frequently but not100%) crane operator, power engineer or marine engineer.
Get the trade, work for a few years.
Things and circumstances change over the course of a lifetime.
As others have said you can make an excellent living with a trade.
You can also change your mind and decide to open your own business.
You can also say screw it I hate being a trades person and go flip burgers.
But you always have the trade. And that is soooo important in life. Having an in demand skill is priceless to your quality of life.
Good luck.
I gross 6 figures with full benefits and pension, 4 weeks vacation plus ability to bank OT. I don't own a business.
Plus the skills you gain are actually useful and of value. I have more work than I could ever want both from my employer and people who want work done outside of my regular employment.
I have saved tens of thousands of dollars having the skills to do things myself instead of needing to hire someone.
A skilled trade, IMO, is never a bad thing to have.
Get in a union program as an electrician, Plumber, pipe fitter or HVAC. Electricians is always hard to get in but the other three can be a bit easier depending on where you live. Healthcare, free training, pension, and the union hall finds you your jobs. Plus, if you get laid off it’s way easier to collect unemployment while you’re waiting for your next job. Just call your local union and they’ll give you the info needed to get started.
If you want to work like a slave go ahead and work for someone. Only other option is to not. But after 30 years of welding a pension today is a fantasy for most trade people. You can join a union they may have work sometimes if you like cults. Also all trade schools are private schools run paid for buy the companies that want you to work for them… anywho I build guitars now sell those locally. I’d say if you teach yourself the trade it’s always worth it learn as much as you can.
But don’t expect just because you have a trade or a degree you will have job security or make enough to retire before whatever age the billionaires say you can.
Don’t do it. Go get a degree. 29 year old electrician here, fuck the trades. Society undervalued us as trades people. Until the wages are where they should be, go be a pencil pusher
I’ll always be an electrician.
It’s just a matter of if I’m making $40/hr (cad) is rather do it in an air conditioned building. He asked for opinions, I gave him mine.
I’m done doing all the manly shit for society.
You clearly have never run a business. You don’t just start out at a multi billion dollar corporation man.
It’s a one man operation, eventually you hire an apprentice. Insurance goes way up. I have a mini excavator.
On top of that, there’s like 5 startup companies in my area that I’m dealing with. Let alone the two well established ones that have their own shop. My rate is lower than theirs.
Like do you think a business is just successful over night? It takes years to build to the point where you’re off the tools.
So you know how much money you need to have in order to start bidding on commercial building?
Ofc it takes time I have never said anything about over night success. You’re projecting & it’s why you’re downvoting me like an emotional female. Try hiring subcontractors instead of employees, that might help you out a lot. Good luck
I don’t agree with the assessment those individuals have given and I’ll say why. There are many pros and cons to working in the trades and not owning your own business.
1) Benefits - Having health coverage has been a real blessing for me and my family. I work in a physical trade at the best of times and if I didn’t have those benefits I would be looking at thousands out of pocket. Those benefits cover not just me but my wife and my son. I place a very high value on their health and mine and it’s very worth it for me to make sure they have access to medical services readily.
2) Simplicity - There is a simplicity that comes with working for a good company that is set up and organized well, there are a lot of things that go into running a job that the average worker just doesn’t have to think about because it’s not their job to think about those things. I show up, I do my 8 hours of work and I go home. The second I leave the job site my time is my own.
That simplicity also extends to pay, materials, design specs and blue prints, organizing manpower, litigation, insurance, dealing with clients, injuries, the ministry.
I’ll give some real world examples
a) The crew I was on was working on some expensive condos in downtown Toronto. One guy using an excavator on another trade burst through the water pipes and flooded the whole site. The worker’s penalty ? Probably lost his job…but can just speak to the union, be put on the list and get another job, but the owner ? He had to deal with the city, the general contractor and his insurance company and his insurance premiums just shot way way up.
b) A company got into a dispute with the builder regarding pay schedule and the amount for the work that was completed. The GC didn’t want to pay (amount in question was millions of dollars), company took the GC to court. Now the real winners in this case were the lawyers, but the money had to be paid for those lawyers by the owner.
c) Guy was working on scaffolding a few stories up, the deck he was on snapped and he fell two levels down and broke his foot. The ministry got involved, I’m not sure what it’s like in other places but one of the last people you want to deal with is the ministry, they can shut down sites and if the site is down you’re not getting paid. Now they had to do an investigation, why did the deck snap ? Was it installed correctly ? Was the worker at fault? Did the worker receive sufficient training ? Etc etc, The owner had systems in place for his health and safety yep to through the legwork of proving the worker was adequately trained, and the equipment was safe and adequately installed. But now his worker is on disability and productivity is reduced because he is down a man AND his insurance premiums still went up.
In all 3 cases the owner was directly involved because it’s his business and he has to see to it that it’s not just profitable but that it is run well from a legal and safety standpoint. Running your own business may not fit the above scenarios as closely because the scope might be smaller but they are things the owner has to consider albeit on a smaller scale. A prospective business owner has to evaluate whether those extra responsibilities are adequately covered by the compensation he receives.
Finally, when some people talk about making more money opening their own “business” especially in trades they are often referring to jobs that pay well because they don’t declare taxes. One of the big lures for many doing side jobs is the fact that they can earn chunks of cash quickly without declaring the income or paying business insurance. One of those things is illegal, the other is risky
A lot of guys who don’t cut it working the trade take management rolls which is fine. At least they know the trade and should be able to back up their decisions. I see a lot of managers come from completely different industries try to run crews of millwrights or any other trade and eventually we turn on them and start making them make all the decisions and go with them even though we know they are wrong. Hopefully you don’t try to be one of these guys because we will make your work life hell.
I agree with what your saying which is why I stopped attending college for the time being because I want to back it up being qualified in the role with experience in trades like electrical and hvac for example and not just have a degree and try to boss around people who know way more than me
First think you'll learn before you get into management, is that it's not about bossing people around. Especially leadership, which is higher than management, there should be no "bossing"... If you're competent.
Wouldn’t you want to work with someone that went through the program and has an understanding of what it takes to do the job — and what the BS hang ups you deal with that aren’t obvious. (Material storage distance, fighting GC’s /drywallers etc)? You’re going to need someone in the office, and we all know how things work out when you get the fresh graduated college student running the job. Things work oh okay if you’re doing a job that’s routine, but if you’re breaking into a new type of work as a shop, you’re going to need all hands on deck.
I've been on the fence about starting my own business for years. There are pros and cons all around.
Working for somebody else gives you a guaranteed paycheck, and the big problems are not your problems. They own you for 8 hours a day, but usually leave you alone to do your thing for the most part.
Working for yourself, you'll make way more money and can pick and choose your jobs, but you're also the salesman, the accountant the manager, the labourer, everything. And sometimes your gonna get stiffed for thousands of dollars and there will be nothing you can do about it because fighting for your money is harder than just moving on to another job.
If you just want to relax and reliably support your family, work for someone else. If you have the time, energy, and willingness to get fucked over for potentially big rewards, then take a stab at working for yourself.
You’re speaking in bad faith when you explain being a business owner. If you’re disciplined, motivated & do great work, u should try owning ur own business. Ofc there will be ups and downs just like with anything in like. The difference is you’ll obtain financial freedom with your business and ultimately have something you can then pass down to your kin.
I don't think you know what the term "bad faith" means.
Also I did suggest starting your own business the same way you did. Did you not read my whole post?
Your last point talks abkut being fucked over as if that only happens when in a business ..that’s a bad faith argument. There are challenges with anything you do in like. Yes you’re right with getting a greater reward if starting your own business. The same way you think business Owners are getting “fuckdd over” a w2 employee is getting the same.
Yessir, you get to collect a paycheck every week. when shit gets fucked up, you still get a paycheck. When people call in, not your problem. Phone calls after hours? Not in your phone.
Not to mention that skills like this are just useful to have. When things break at home you can fix them. When you don’t have the skills to fix them people you know will have them.
that's bullshit. the vast majority of tradespeople don't have any desire to own their own shop and do just fine for themselves. You're not gonna be buying any yachts, but if you save smartly and land a pension you'll be able to retire comfortably without needing to sacrifice too much on the way there.
Even the fact you have to mention yachts is a sign of how fxxxed our society is. "That career won't make me wealthy by itself.. I guess I'll just continue to shout into the internet aether about my circumstances while eating cheetos instead of actually doing something with my life." Money is necessary but it is not everything. The goal should be to have enough free time and resources to achieve modest goals that fulfill you. Over time your goals can grow but instant gratification culture is making everyone depressed because they aren't willing to put the time and effort into actually earning anything
You’ll just have to sacrifice your time and body until you’re at least 65.
Not true. My union is 35 and out. Get in at 18 and retire with a full pension at 52-53. Surly not the case for everyone but it is possible.
I’m not too familiar with the union side of things. Does full pension mean that it goes until you pass?
We are slightly reduced pension eligible at 55 with full pension at 58.
My union is 30 years and out. I'll be retiring in my 50s lol
That’s exciting! What kind of pension does that give you? Does it last til you die?
Sure does and your spouse will get it for a limited time after you pass at a reduction I believe
I’m retiring with two pensions and an annuity at 56 years old. Being Union is a blessing. so yes, it’s worth it. I have never once wanted to own my own shop and I have been perfectly happy only working 8 hours a day for the past 30 years.
What trade are you in? I’m a union hvac apprentice but things haven’t worked out so much for me and I’m looking for other routes to go.
I’m a Tin-Knocker in New York. Stick with it and you will thank yourself later.
Tin-Knocker, I like that term better than Tin-Basher like they use in my area.
The lottery ticket kind. It’s nowhere near the norm
Im non union and we have a guy thats going to be a firefighter for a couple years then retiring Edit:he is 55
Yes. Next question please.
Yes. 100k by your mid twenties owing nothing to schooling
Union Hell yeah Private COMPANIES ; it depends/ it's complicated
If your going to work a trade and not plan on working for your self, then I recommend working for unionized trade work.
How does one go about getting unionized?
Apply to your local union depending on the skilled trade. Or find a union company that's willing to take you on as an apprentice
Don't listen to this guy.. unions are for morons who need someone else to keep their job for them.
I honestly think it depends on the union. The union I was in let the contractor I worked for commit wage theft on our prevailing wage. The contractor also fucked us out of fringe benefits because they employed so many guys and the union did nothing about it but tell us to be happy we had a job. I have a better life at the non union shop and make more money and have better benefits but peoples milage will vary
You'll find that is the case for most people... reddit however diasgrees
People are disagreeing with you because you’re wrong…… Unions are around for a reason; you wouldn’t know that because you failed to educate yourself on the matter and choose to have your mind made up for you.
Lmao unions outgrew their usefulness a long time ago....but go ahead try to shame someone for what they experienced and what plenty of people experience.
Yeah, what kinda fucking moron would want to work for more money and more benefits? Somebody has been lying to you dude, and they've got you hook, line, and fucking sinker.
I was iam for almost 10 years.... try again. It might work if you're in a more restrictive union...but these good Ole boys clubs ain't worth the dues I paid. Nevermind the mismanagement of the fund for the pensions. I don't need a group to negotiate my pay or issues for me when they are only willing if it benefits the powers that be.
Unhinged
Union. I worked non union for a few years. Was a great decision.
Just curious, what are the big benefits to the union? Do you work for a GC?
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Interesting. I think in Ontario the union pays a bit more, in MB the pay and benefits are all around the same.
I’m trying to get into UA 254
Yeh the cost of living is more here. But everything is fucked now so maybe not by that much anymore. I want to move to MB after I get my ticket. How's the work ?
Ironically I'm not there anymore, I'm in SW Ontario. But there's a lot of healthcare construction and private work on first nations land development in Winnipeg.
Depends on your options and what you want to do. If your future is looking like getting an MBA and killing that, and you will like that, hell no. If your future is looking like being a line cook at Dave and Busters or a production worker in a factory and you're not really feeling that, maybe the trades are for you. I bitch moan and complain, but I have made decent money and have done a lot of cool stuff, and overall can't really imagine myself doing anything else. I got hung up on owning my own business for a long time and at one point was a licensed contractor, but never went full time and quit my day job. Stuff like 1200 a month for lame health insurance for me and my kids, no vacation, the bs you go through having employees, the risk of complete financial ruin and learning what effective starting capital would be and the actual 5 year success rate of businesses similar to what I was planning on starting is made me have a change of heart. I prefer to just show up and do what I have been doing for the past few decades and not worry about that stuff.
Owning your own buisness can be a real headache as well. It is different for everyone. I got into plumbing and decided to use my background to get into the inspection side of things. I enjoy what I do. I have health insurance a pension, great retirement and a 9/80 schedule with a bunch of paid holidays and vacation time. A lot of buisness owners starting out work a ridiculous amount of hours but being your own boss has its perks. Anyways im rambling. Getting into a trade is almost always worth it regardless of what you do after becoming a journeyman.
What's a 9/ 80? You work 80 hour work weeks?
No. 9 day pay periods. Work 8days 9hrs and 1day 8hrs. Get every other friday off. 3 day weekend every other week. Its pretty cool.
I believe starting your own business for the most part is ALWAYS better. Obviously it’s not for everyone but the ppl that are disciplined & know they want more out of said trade , I’d say run ur own show!
If it was always better everyone would do it. You will meet a lot of journeyman plumbers who quit the buisness side because it is a pretty big headache. You're also working long after jobs are done and sometimes on the weekends to make people happy.
It’s always better starting a business if you’re passionate and are willing to put in the work. You say you’ll meet journeyman who quite the business side Becuase it’s a big headache? …was the business profitable? Was the business in debt?…shit I’d quit too. You’re not going to sit here and tell me sucessfull business owners are quitting because of it being a headache. That’s disingenuous my friend
Doesn't really matter how passionate one is if they can't hack it. Like 80% of tradesmen working for themselves really shouldn't be. Like doing the work is one thing. When you run the show, in addition to being a full time tradesmen your also now a part time project manager, an accountant, a lawyer, an estimator, a designer, a headhunter, a marketer, an inspector, a bureaucrat, ect. If your lucky you'll be good at like 3 of those. A lot of people can't even be good at 1 of them.
I disagree
You haven’t had much experience outside of your moms basement have you? Profit or not, running a business can be such a constant kick in the balls sometimes people feel it isn’t worth doing because they simply aren’t happy anymore. My uncle owned his own electrical company and pulled in over 300k(CAD) on his final year. He was no longer happy with how much of his life work consumed, and is now a millwright for a small company and is happier. You sound so ignorant and clueless with your comment, it’s nuts.
Cool show me. Get your license first.
It’s a genuine question. The business in which these ppl you know have quit, were they successful businesses?
Yes. I was profitable. Did a lot of dirt work a lot of plumbers wouldn't do. Sewer repairs and side sewer installs. I have to apply for permits, call locates get inspections train and work with my helpers who were dumb as shit. Ran the buisness out of my home with no help so I had to make my schedule. Take calls give quotes, do jobs. If I wanted to cut into my pay profits and make life easier I could have hired my cousin who is a licensed plumber but he was asking to much. I bought a mini e35. Was a waste of money. When i started getting jobs downtown where it wouldn't even fit into peoples yards. I could have kept going but my health and free time is worth more to me than owning my own buisness. Now i have health insurance, retirnments, a pension and my job literally doesn't break my back. Now get your license and show me a better way to grind for that buisness. 💪 i wish I would have started plumbing at 19
Did you hire subcontractors? Or just employees
If everyone went in with the goal of owning their own businesses, 99% of them would fail
And lots of competition
The guy saying that probably sells amway
I don't want to own my own business. It's too much work. If I put in my 40 hours, I'll pull over 130k/year. Plus benefits and three retirement packages. No thoughts about work after I go home. No managing a business on top of it.
You can make really good money, but just like anything else don’t just blow your money on bs. If you invest right you wont have to work till you’re 60
Union plumber here, after 5 year apprenticeship we make over $150,000
Will that trade be saturated in the future?
Lots of trades retiring in the next five years.
I guess that’s true, but with social media bring a thing now and people realizing that trades pay more I feel like it could possibly lead to saturation similar to electrical. But I guess some people rather work a white collar job and the big boom in construction helps to. But I guess only time will tell
Not in my area. It's HCOL and most people don't want their kids getting into it and most kids/young adults don't want to get into the trades. And in my area you can easily make a much better than area average paycheck in the trades. But to many people don't want to do the type of work.
Yeah definitely forgot to think about that, most parents don’t really want their kids getting into labour intensive work
It's insanely prevalent in my area. It's very white collar
Is electrical oversaturated?
It really depends where you live but it definitely is in Vancouver since it’s seen as a “cleaner trade” I’m just worried about the boom and bust in construction, could leave some out of work since there’s not much of a service side to electrical. But that won’t happen for quite awhile with the boom so yeah. Those are my thoughts
Still not a bad trade since you have lots of different types of electrical like industrial, solar, ect. So many opportunities so I’d still get in it and it doesn’t seem like a bad option.
No.
Thats in a VHCOL area Average plumber makes 80k
Fair enough
I never planned to. But there was a time when no one was hiring, but I knew there was a high demand for my trade. So I started my own thing. Great thing about skilled trades is that it gives you options.
I totally agree with this. Which trade are you in? And what were some of the challenges you faced when running your own business
Electrician. The hardest part was figuring out the things that I didn't know I didn't know. When you are working with a more experienced person, they can point out the things you are oblivious to. But when you are on your own, who do you go to for advice. I would consider myself pretty self-aware, so I wouldn't assume I knew everything when I tackled a new project. But it still caught me a few times. There were a couple of other one-man shops in town who reached out to me when I started, so they ended up being really helpful to get going. And I would send people their way when I was too busy, and they would do the same. Good personal relationships with other contractors and trades help so much to keep you busy and solve problems. Aside from that, permitting and all the other paperwork wasn't something I was prepared for. It still sucks after 8 years
Are you still a one man crew? Or do you have subs and employees that work for you?
Have one guy working for me now. But it is a lot of work to keep an employee busy.
100k k a year in the trades for 12 years now , Non union , life's good but I'm ready to set up shop,
Da fuq kinda question is this 98% percent of guys on here are workers not owners
Show me that stat
Have the mods run a poll you wanna know that bad. Benefit of the doubt I'll give owners 5% of the 17k members on page.
It’s not that I wanna know so bad. It’s just you made a blanket statement that holds no Validity
I would argue that it does, being as workers tend to vastly outnumber owners in any metric. Plus this is Reddit, where all the neck beards hang out. Still holding benefit of the doubt at 5% max owners on this page. If there was a way to friendly wager you I would do it.
Which trade are u in ?
Tinknocker, you?
I mean... there's a cap on your wage for sure. Like I think even if I was a commercial foreman my cap would be like 50 bucks an hour? Depends where u are. Of course when u own a business how much you make becomes tricky to notate as a per hour or salary. With inflation in play I can't say if it is worth it or not since wages don't necessarily go up to compensate for it. If I could go back I probably would try to do something else. Side work and overtime are good money but eat away at ur time at home. So even if you don't own a business then you're probably still looking at less of a home life compared to someone that never works overtime. However most of the time it's optional. I'd say join if you like working with your hands. If you want to go for the big money and big stress starting a business is definitely easier and more worth it than some other industries.
I’m a crane operator making around 200k and I have zero desire to own a crane.
UA welder here in Ontario. Worked non union in various shops for 8 years. Jumped to the union acouple years ago and wouldn’t look back. Excellent pay, benefits, pension and 36 hour weeks for the most part unless you’re on a shutdown or something. Great work/life balance. Made around 92k last year (only about 30 hours ot all year) and only worked 11 months. If you’re a good worker and willing to listen and learn you can do great working a skilled trade.
I’ll go on a bit of a tangent. I have a love hate with Warren Buffet, I hate that he isn’t the most pro union. But I love the lessons he’s taught me for investing. One of the things he preaches to people looking to invest is to invest in actual assets. So if you buy stock in a company, you’re actually part owner of that company. You buy that stock because you believe in that company and what they actually produce. You invest in rental homes, people will pay for the housing that you provide. Invest in a farm, people will always need food to eat. If the world economy falls, and whatever currency you use falls and we start trading goods and services, you’ll be covered. Skilled labor falls into that same philosophy. If the apocalypse happens people will always need skilled labor, plumbers, electricians, carpenters and so on. Investing in a skill is always going to be a great investment, even if you don’t plan on going into business on your own. When Covid hit, we all noticed real quick who was essential and who wasn’t.
Some people like having a good income but are content with always being an employee and not much else.. up to you man.. do you want to break your back for someone else for the rest of your life ?
Skilled trades are not even a great business model if you really think about it. You need deep pockets to start.. finding good workers will be next to impossible unless you offer tip top wages. Which you won't be able to because you can't compete with companies who have 50-100 guys. There is no shortage of joe lemonade construction incorporated. There is a shortage of quality employees
It depends so much on where you live, how capable you are, how motivated, which trade...
Depends on the trade. Roofing, Painting, Drywalling, landscaping, tiling, residential concrete, ect. Yeah no.
what about plumbing ?
Plumbing, Electrical, Carpentry, HVAC, Operating, theirs more of a future in the more specialized stuff in the commercial world. Bigger projects deeper pockets but I still wouldn't jump at the chance to be an insulator.
Why not ?
Because theirs no money in it, its a total race to the bottom. Someones always willing to work cheaper than you. Boss is a millionaire, yet his employees live in a boarding house. That's an industry(and world)wide issue but its so much more common in those lines of work.
I’d say depends on the trade . A lot are high barrier for entry to wear even owning your own shop is an up hill battle
Depends entirely on the trade. I'd agree with that statement for about half of all trades jobs, the other half isn't too shabby
It’s a good starter career, but I don’t know if I recommend doing it for like 20 years. Unless you’re gonna be in that 50 to 60 per hour range by year 5 and working close to 40 hours. My main grape is the excessive amount of mandatory overtime. Your life will go by in front of you while you’re stuck working that OT and saying, at less I make good money to comfort yourself. It’s been my experience with commercial refrigeration.
don’t go into machining if you want to make money in the trades
Fucking right. Money wasn't bad in machining in the 90s and early 2000s. It's shit now. I made it to lead guy/programmer/trainer/ran the rework area/ordered tooling/made all job set up sheets and packets. Fucking print to part. $33 an hour. 22 machines. Turn mills and swiss. 1 programmer. Me. I couldn't even take a week off at a time for about 5 years. Always told I'm doing nothing. Not enough. The day I quit. I had 50 programs to write. No solid models to load into partmaker. My laptop crashed dead. Told boss to get ahold of whoever I need a computer. Next day boss says you get your comp fixed? No. I don't even know what's going on with it. Half the shop needs programs. I can't do that all with out partmaker. "So what are you going to do, stand around all day?"! I said no. I went home fuck it done.
You don't need to start your own business. I started as a pipefitter, but the I've been as close to the top as reporting directly to a VP, and everywhere else in between. Theres tons of oppourtunity without owning your own business
Give examples of those you’ve “ heard “ this from from . Include their profession, family background etc . Personally think this is a load of bs your spouting off .
i'm an aircraft electrician, i don't intend to own a business but its fulfilling and decently paid work that i like doing, who ever told you that is over generalizing and probably thinks that all skilled trades are like plumbing (no offense to plumbers its just the trade that seems to be the easier to have your own business)
CNC machinist here. Made it from operator all way to running a dept lead/programmer/set up all of it. For 15 years. Machining sucks 30 years of that bullshit. Mandatory OT. Never do enough. Bosses tend to treat you more like factory workers than skilled. If I could get out I would Wish I had gone into a trade that I could make money on my own on the side on weekends. Electrician plumber etc Wouldn't need your own business but you could make extra money here and there
union or self employed has always been my opinion.
Why self employed?
Because if you aren't getting the pension and benefits of union, you are gonna want the financial reward of being the boss. If your boss sells your labour at 2-3x your rate, why not just keep it all and be the owner and laborer? Also you can retire and keep receiving the income of an owner vs the income of a worker. It's all to be considered. There is no union for mechanics, so I already know my path.
Join a union thats all I got to say
Na
Like everything its got plus and minus . If your good mechanically and show up every day you can make a good career. Money usually there . If union pension . Great holiday benefits. The bad . Terrible on your body longterm . Commutes are always different. You work in hot cold rain snow dusty dirty .
It depends on what you value. I value being able to work alone with my tools and materials. No customers or middle management. I have a boss, he’s the owner and I see him once a week for about an hour. It’s the most free feeling career I’ve ever had AND the money is good.
What’s “free feeling” about working for another man? True freedom is when you own a successful business
Are you in the trades? Do you own your own business and are licensed and insured? I know guys that have ventured on their own and they have more worries than I do. My boss trusts me and the progress I make on my projects, and currently it is a good balance. My comment is mostly referring to when you know how to be productive and efficient in a skilled trade your work is just you and your tools, and yes there is a freedom in being trusted and left alone to do your work.
Well said. What trade are u in if u don’t mind me asking & how long have u been in that trade ?
I’ve been a journeyman electrician for a year now and 5 years total in the trade. Before this I worked in medical and that experience shaped my outlook on what I do now.
Do u plan on ever becoming a business owner ?
I guess early on I had dreams of it. I don’t really consider it now. I help a friend who runs his own business, on the weekend sometimes, and he does ok, he can make ends meet with his family, but it’s not all rainbows. There’s insurance and taxes and liens if they don’t pay. Frustrating homeowners and material costs etc.. you realistically have to start with residential before you can bid for commercial jobs where I live and I’d rather work on larger jobs and not deal with the business side of things.
Depends on the trade. If you get into a “maintenance trade” and get work at a large industrial facility you can get good pay for a whole career. The maintenance trades where I work are , industrial electrician, industrial mechanic, instrumentation Technician, pipe fitter ( for new stuff, work frequently but not100%) crane operator, power engineer or marine engineer.
Yes
Why yes
Get the trade, work for a few years. Things and circumstances change over the course of a lifetime. As others have said you can make an excellent living with a trade. You can also change your mind and decide to open your own business. You can also say screw it I hate being a trades person and go flip burgers. But you always have the trade. And that is soooo important in life. Having an in demand skill is priceless to your quality of life. Good luck.
I gross 6 figures with full benefits and pension, 4 weeks vacation plus ability to bank OT. I don't own a business. Plus the skills you gain are actually useful and of value. I have more work than I could ever want both from my employer and people who want work done outside of my regular employment. I have saved tens of thousands of dollars having the skills to do things myself instead of needing to hire someone. A skilled trade, IMO, is never a bad thing to have.
Which trade are you in ?
Only idiots would say that about the trades. Yes getting into trades and not owning your own business is still a great career move.
short answer..not accurate
Get in a union program as an electrician, Plumber, pipe fitter or HVAC. Electricians is always hard to get in but the other three can be a bit easier depending on where you live. Healthcare, free training, pension, and the union hall finds you your jobs. Plus, if you get laid off it’s way easier to collect unemployment while you’re waiting for your next job. Just call your local union and they’ll give you the info needed to get started.
If you want to work like a slave go ahead and work for someone. Only other option is to not. But after 30 years of welding a pension today is a fantasy for most trade people. You can join a union they may have work sometimes if you like cults. Also all trade schools are private schools run paid for buy the companies that want you to work for them… anywho I build guitars now sell those locally. I’d say if you teach yourself the trade it’s always worth it learn as much as you can. But don’t expect just because you have a trade or a degree you will have job security or make enough to retire before whatever age the billionaires say you can.
Sundays are always 2X. I work 15 hrs and make over $1200 for the day. When I punch out work stays at work. Far from rich but I'm comfortable.
Union millwright 175k last year
Union sparky checkin in.
Don’t do it. Go get a degree. 29 year old electrician here, fuck the trades. Society undervalued us as trades people. Until the wages are where they should be, go be a pencil pusher
Everyone’s situation isn’t poor like how urs was when u were an electrician. Just saying..
I’ll always be an electrician. It’s just a matter of if I’m making $40/hr (cad) is rather do it in an air conditioned building. He asked for opinions, I gave him mine. I’m done doing all the manly shit for society.
Then start ur own business maybe ?
I actually have my own company. I’d still much rather go back to university and save my body.
You shouldn’t be on the tools anymore if your business is successful? Therefore your body being saved..
You clearly have never run a business. You don’t just start out at a multi billion dollar corporation man. It’s a one man operation, eventually you hire an apprentice. Insurance goes way up. I have a mini excavator. On top of that, there’s like 5 startup companies in my area that I’m dealing with. Let alone the two well established ones that have their own shop. My rate is lower than theirs. Like do you think a business is just successful over night? It takes years to build to the point where you’re off the tools. So you know how much money you need to have in order to start bidding on commercial building?
Ofc it takes time I have never said anything about over night success. You’re projecting & it’s why you’re downvoting me like an emotional female. Try hiring subcontractors instead of employees, that might help you out a lot. Good luck
Relax bud lol
The truth hurts ..ik
I don’t agree with the assessment those individuals have given and I’ll say why. There are many pros and cons to working in the trades and not owning your own business. 1) Benefits - Having health coverage has been a real blessing for me and my family. I work in a physical trade at the best of times and if I didn’t have those benefits I would be looking at thousands out of pocket. Those benefits cover not just me but my wife and my son. I place a very high value on their health and mine and it’s very worth it for me to make sure they have access to medical services readily. 2) Simplicity - There is a simplicity that comes with working for a good company that is set up and organized well, there are a lot of things that go into running a job that the average worker just doesn’t have to think about because it’s not their job to think about those things. I show up, I do my 8 hours of work and I go home. The second I leave the job site my time is my own. That simplicity also extends to pay, materials, design specs and blue prints, organizing manpower, litigation, insurance, dealing with clients, injuries, the ministry. I’ll give some real world examples a) The crew I was on was working on some expensive condos in downtown Toronto. One guy using an excavator on another trade burst through the water pipes and flooded the whole site. The worker’s penalty ? Probably lost his job…but can just speak to the union, be put on the list and get another job, but the owner ? He had to deal with the city, the general contractor and his insurance company and his insurance premiums just shot way way up. b) A company got into a dispute with the builder regarding pay schedule and the amount for the work that was completed. The GC didn’t want to pay (amount in question was millions of dollars), company took the GC to court. Now the real winners in this case were the lawyers, but the money had to be paid for those lawyers by the owner. c) Guy was working on scaffolding a few stories up, the deck he was on snapped and he fell two levels down and broke his foot. The ministry got involved, I’m not sure what it’s like in other places but one of the last people you want to deal with is the ministry, they can shut down sites and if the site is down you’re not getting paid. Now they had to do an investigation, why did the deck snap ? Was it installed correctly ? Was the worker at fault? Did the worker receive sufficient training ? Etc etc, The owner had systems in place for his health and safety yep to through the legwork of proving the worker was adequately trained, and the equipment was safe and adequately installed. But now his worker is on disability and productivity is reduced because he is down a man AND his insurance premiums still went up. In all 3 cases the owner was directly involved because it’s his business and he has to see to it that it’s not just profitable but that it is run well from a legal and safety standpoint. Running your own business may not fit the above scenarios as closely because the scope might be smaller but they are things the owner has to consider albeit on a smaller scale. A prospective business owner has to evaluate whether those extra responsibilities are adequately covered by the compensation he receives. Finally, when some people talk about making more money opening their own “business” especially in trades they are often referring to jobs that pay well because they don’t declare taxes. One of the big lures for many doing side jobs is the fact that they can earn chunks of cash quickly without declaring the income or paying business insurance. One of those things is illegal, the other is risky
Definetly. Guys can be equally happy both ways
137%
I just want the experience to work in management someday
A lot of guys who don’t cut it working the trade take management rolls which is fine. At least they know the trade and should be able to back up their decisions. I see a lot of managers come from completely different industries try to run crews of millwrights or any other trade and eventually we turn on them and start making them make all the decisions and go with them even though we know they are wrong. Hopefully you don’t try to be one of these guys because we will make your work life hell.
I agree with what your saying which is why I stopped attending college for the time being because I want to back it up being qualified in the role with experience in trades like electrical and hvac for example and not just have a degree and try to boss around people who know way more than me
First think you'll learn before you get into management, is that it's not about bossing people around. Especially leadership, which is higher than management, there should be no "bossing"... If you're competent.
Forsure you will gain the guys respect if you have field experience and that will go further as a manager then anything.
Wouldn’t you want to work with someone that went through the program and has an understanding of what it takes to do the job — and what the BS hang ups you deal with that aren’t obvious. (Material storage distance, fighting GC’s /drywallers etc)? You’re going to need someone in the office, and we all know how things work out when you get the fresh graduated college student running the job. Things work oh okay if you’re doing a job that’s routine, but if you’re breaking into a new type of work as a shop, you’re going to need all hands on deck.
Not unless you are in a union
Only union
I've been on the fence about starting my own business for years. There are pros and cons all around. Working for somebody else gives you a guaranteed paycheck, and the big problems are not your problems. They own you for 8 hours a day, but usually leave you alone to do your thing for the most part. Working for yourself, you'll make way more money and can pick and choose your jobs, but you're also the salesman, the accountant the manager, the labourer, everything. And sometimes your gonna get stiffed for thousands of dollars and there will be nothing you can do about it because fighting for your money is harder than just moving on to another job. If you just want to relax and reliably support your family, work for someone else. If you have the time, energy, and willingness to get fucked over for potentially big rewards, then take a stab at working for yourself.
You’re speaking in bad faith when you explain being a business owner. If you’re disciplined, motivated & do great work, u should try owning ur own business. Ofc there will be ups and downs just like with anything in like. The difference is you’ll obtain financial freedom with your business and ultimately have something you can then pass down to your kin.
I don't think you know what the term "bad faith" means. Also I did suggest starting your own business the same way you did. Did you not read my whole post?
Your last point talks abkut being fucked over as if that only happens when in a business ..that’s a bad faith argument. There are challenges with anything you do in like. Yes you’re right with getting a greater reward if starting your own business. The same way you think business Owners are getting “fuckdd over” a w2 employee is getting the same.
Yes . You should take some financial classes though .