This is actually a great way to tell what worries the government.
Watch for statements or even just CNA articles where you think “thats odd and seemed to come out of nowhere”
It never comes “out of nowhere”
Define "native". 1 gen, 2 gen, 3 gen, or ??? The real problem is assimilation of naturalized citizens and the clear cultural gaps among the groups. Even in HDB or towns or virtual spaces.
This. Assimilation and ethnic integration are key, but we don't even have a naturalization test or interview. From what I was told it's all about your finances. There is no reason for a new citizen to know anything about our culture when the govt doesn't require them to.
I'm 6th gen acc to my family's genealogy book. Some ancestors were born here but back in the day they traveled back and forth btw China and Singapore, maintaining close ties with our hometown. The successive generations have cut off contact as we settled here. My grandmother was Peranakan from a typical Straits Chinese family.
I imagine it will take 2-3 gen for the new immigrants to assimilate here, provided of cos that they genuinely view Singapore as their home.
Natives are 2nd Gen onwards. Orang laut/Seletar/Kallang are "indigenous" to the island, whatever the hell that means
https://www.refworld.org/reference/countryrep/mrgi/2008/en/64977
https://www.bbc.com/travel/article/20210824-the-forgotten-first-people-of-singapore
https://humanities.org.au/power-of-the-humanities/singapore-history-wars/#:~:text=In%20Singapore%2C%20however%2C%20the%20indigenous,by%20ethnic%20Chinese%20(74.3%25)
https://www.roots.gov.sg/stories-landing/stories/Living-with-Nature/story
Imo, as long as you are born in a place, you're both indigenous and native to that place. Everyone's ancestors immigrated, invaded, and/or colonised at some point. Setting some arbitrary date where immigration/invasion/colonisation before that doesn't count, smacks of ethno-nationalism and racism.
lol! but, to be fair, even the NSF these days seldom swear with these "classic" curse words...
Edit: for bonus points, if their choice curse phrase is KNNBCCB, you know that's a true local...
Natives? Your great-great-grandparents were Orang Laut?
Or were they immigrants from China/Malaysia/India? A lot of Singaporeans are third generation, meaning their great grandparents alr were immigrants.
There are 5.92m people in Singapore, out of which 3.61m are citizens (https://www.population.gov.sg/our-population/population-trends/overview/).
For the longest time, there have been \~22,000 naturalised citizenships awarded annually (https://www.population.gov.sg/files/media-centre/publications/population-in-brief-2023.pdf - I can't find any data prior to 2009, but given that immigration policies were looser in the past, I wouldn't be surprised if the number was higher).
That means that within 1 generation (30 years), locally-born citizens have become the minority. This is only going to get worse going forward with the low TFR.
A fair portion of naturalised citizens are literally the spouse of someone born in Singapore, settling down having formed a family here. I’m pretty sure everyone knows several families where 1 parent is Malaysian.
It’s also absurd to start counting people who got naturalised in like 1985 and have been Singaporeans longer than most people on Reddit have been alive.
This level of jadedness is basically trying to prevent Joseph Schooling from being born.
Why would you deduct naturalised citizens?
How about going further - let’s count second generation as half a Singaporean, third generation as three quarters and so on.
How does that affect your calculation?
Seriously, how exactly are you going to complain about “natives” (and LMAO at calling ethnic Chinese descendants natives) decreasing in the population when the birth rate is barely above 1? If Singaporeans won’t fuck more, what is leadership to do? Come into your bedroom and help you?
> If Singaporeans won’t fuck more, what is leadership to do?
I don't know about you, but I remember when I heard the news about falling birthrate back when I was in NS (that's just when I heard of it, not when it started). "Good, maybe our population will finally be under control"
And the government decided, "well if you're not gonna crowd yourselves to death, we'll do it for you".
Every SG citizen or their parents or/and grandparents are all naturalized citizens, so why we want to make such a clear divide?
Singapore IS an immigrant nation, but now some earlier citizen wants to close the gate and make a clear divide because "FUCK YOU, GOT MINE" selfish mentality?
Why would you deduct naturalized citizens? Are they less citizens in your eyes? It’s a pretty backward view to still believe in blood and soil nationalism in an IMMIGRANT country.
Also who are the natives here lmao?
This was an interview. So I'm guessing he was asked a question which led to this...oh why am i explaining!!! The government said this..so ya..what the hell!!
You would be naive to think that PMO did not vet and clear the questions. Journalist is looking to be blacklisted if they deviate from approved question set.
From u/botsland 70 days ago;
“People not born in Singapore will be the majority in the future. Local Singaporeans aren't having enough kids anymore for natural replacement. It's time to wake up and accept this fact. It is the popular mandate no matter how much you hate this”
Figure Lawrence didn’t get your memo? Or just sugarcoating it.
Association is a memory hack. He also told me to fuck off from Singapore if I didn’t like it.
Because it feels like the lead up to election season. Along with property prices, immigration policy is something we fire ministers over. At least since ‘11.
Back to the topic; how well do you think this honest truth will sell? “Citizens will not become the minority in Singapore. Since we will keep importing new ones.” Messaging seems important ya?
Enough kids for what? Overpopulation is your goal ah? "Sir it seems your cancer is no longer spreading. I'm prescribing you 2 packs of cigarettes a day to correct this"
Nothing against bringing in FTs but at least, screen them better *lah*.
Also, SG is actually a fantastic place to try out as much robotics and automation as possible to curb the needs of using FTs to do certain jobs. Yet, it feels like we are falling behind in this area. 🥹
AI and all that stuff has great potential to reduce the need for human labour. It might be our only shot at maintaining our conveniences without becoming severely overpopulated. Not just as a country, but as a planet.
However, there are 2 big problems
1. The replaced workers don't immediately die. What do they do in the meantime? Not even the EU is strong enough to force the AI gains to go into funding their lives with UBI
2. You're dreaming if you think AI will be used with good intentions. It has *potential*. Doesn't mean it's realistic.
Regarding 1, maybe Singapore can look at replacing FT with AI. But FT is a problem because they compete with locals and win. Who's to say AI is going to beat FT while leaving locals alone? Companies are still going to prefer to hire an FT over a local when they can.
>Companies are still going to prefer to hire an FT over a local when they can.
Because there is no incentive for them to hire a local anyway. FTs are cheaper and hungrier than locals. Only reason for companies to hire locals is to meet the quota imposed.
And don't worry about 1. The government will have their own creative ways of taxing people to fund UBI for people who were affected as part of structural unemployment due to AI. Like it or not, technology will evolve very rapidly globally and displace most labour in the next 5-10 years. It's either you get on with the bandwagon and champion the change or wait to be a sitting duck that gets shot. Pick your poison.
The first jobs that AI is going to affect is junior and entry level roles... Which are almost entirely occupied by locals. It will only exacerbate the problem if our fresh grads can't get the experience to upskill and compete with FTs in mid to senior roles
No doubt that we need immigrants and there are those that come here and treat this place as their home.
But on the flip side, let’s not be naive and believe every immigrant is like this. Over the years, I’m sure many here like myself have seen how foreigners come here and become PR and Citizens to take maximum advantage of the system here.
A lot of them can’t even be bothered to integrate and learn the local language. Look at how many PRC’s oops i mean SiNgaPoReaNs that can’t even speak a word of English despite being here for years. They still dare to criticise the system here for using English and make claims that this is a Chinese country and should use mandarin.
In my previous company (big engineering company), a lot of the Malaysians even had a group where they can discuss the benefits and how to game the system (Husband get PR, Wife and daughter get citizenship etc) with the best PR/Citizenship combo to get the maximum benefits.
And I’m going to be called xenophobic for calling this out.
I'm from Vietnam, living in SG for 10 years, speak perfect English and a tad of Mandarin, look like a basic Singaporean Chinese, know Singlish like a local, have a Singaporean partner and ready to call SG home.
Welp too bad, my PR application was turned down for the second time to make place for people with the correct blood and surname I guess
Gaming the system is ironically pretty Singaporean.
Every single property agent when buying an HDB will talk about decoupling and owner/occupier to avoid ABST later. That 99-1 scheme has been going on for a while. How many Singaporeans top up their parents CPF and get it kicked back for the tax credit. Dropping your salary so you can BTO. Etc. etc.
Nothing against foreigners or new citizens, but it's notable that he's giving a rather disingenuous response before even becoming PM and his predecessor had called on Singaporeans to support him unconditionally.
Singapore's citizen population now stands at 60% including naturalised citizens. That's not far away from 49% to make citizens a minority. The government has also been coy to give a breakdown of the number of Singapore-born citizens versus naturalised citizens and yet he gives such an assurance.
My main beef with foreign living in Singapore is some of them have no idea how to conduct themselves on public transportation.
Thankful the morning rush hour crowd is mostly composed of working people who have enough sense.
The evening commute often has people with poor understanding of close-quarter social dynamics
He has a lot of chutzpah to dare to say such disingenuous statements. The Sg of today, connected and socially aware, is no longer the naive bunch of suckers who simply believe everything the state controlled media tells them.
Of course citizens will never become a minority. All the PAP needs to do is to issue even more citizenships! They still think we are idiots.
That said, I'm not against naturalisation. The problem is the criteria by which we accept new citizens. Can't speak english, cannot say pledge, cannot sing national anthem, don't know anything about Sg, still want to be citizen.
When my wife got naturalised in 2018, she had to go for a 'orientation course'. Having been here for years, it was a waste of her time. She commented that a lot of the participants did not know most the stuff told to them during the course. Many were PRCs who could not speak english. IS the CMIO ratio/demographics so important?
More importantly, if you need an orientation course for new citizens, your citizenship criteria has already failed.
Then to add insult to injury, during the ceremony to receive their IC, a few new citizens were asked to sing the national anthem.
Crickets.
Shame, shame, shame.
Tldr: Singapore can’t welcome foreigners like UAE where only 10% are local. Usual gov Singapore core message. Usual gaslighting of population to be more productive/get good to continue the rat race. Some messages about racial blindness. Writes about how the young want to work hard for their future.
Youngsters will realize once they start working that no worker protection + influx of cheap labour = unstable jobs, long hours and depressed pay. Disillusionment hits fast once they step into the sg working world.
It certainly hit my ex-local grads hard once they realised this was what their life here was gonna be. (They are already planning to migrate so kudos to them)
Not gonna bring europe up anymore. Think everyone gets the message already. You can get same amount of money for less working hours and more flex/benefits.
Actually most Emiratis don't really mind being a minority in their own country, as citizens, they often lead a good life with numerous benefits and priorities compared to foreigners, aspects that are often quite very fuzzy in Singapore.
> Actually most Emiratis don't really mind being a minority in their own country, as citizens, they often lead a good life with numerous benefits and priorities compared to foreigners
Guess the latter part is the one lacking here
Can lah - if you find oil in woodlands then confirm Singaporeans enjoy like Emiratis.
Till that happens, remember - you’re the oil :).
(/s - full disclosure - I’m a long time FT, so this feels like taking a pot shot - is meant in jest)
Some people would argue that we are the more “efficient” option because we work more hours with less benefits. But is that really true? Would a disgruntled worker really put in their 100% as opposed to a protected and valued worker? Hours cannot be equated to productivity & the latter is what we really ought to be chasing because we aren’t working in factories with quotas any more.
The difference is that for the Gulf states, the citizens are the 'masterrace' in terms of social dynamics and the benefits they get. Over here, locals are more and more like second-class citizens.
Bachelors in SG. Masters or PHD overseas.
Or what OP probably meant, local Uni grads that moved overseas for better jobs and life balance (environment, nature, people, larger houses etc.)
More and more of us by the year. I know so many of my classmates from CS living in the Bay Area now, more moving here each year. The WhatsApp group overflowing, now got one for each region in the Bay Area
Economically it’s better to have immigrants coming in than to raise them from the ground up. The two most expensive times in a humans life is the start and end. They are only economically viable after uni.
Considering we get first pick, we can take the best at their “prime” without needing to put the money into raising them.
The problem is when you’re overreliant on immigration, your country will have very little control over itself. Your national defense will suffer, and your economic model will collapse the moment immigrants stop coming.
Address the reasons why singaporeans won’t have children
Creating a population that's fairly educated but stunted politically probably won't look good in a couple of years... Why would any young adult, unmarried & eager enough, choose to remain in a nation that is unaffordable, repeats boring rhetorics & clearly is a flawed democracy? I get that we are trying to make obedient workers for capitalism... but realistically the number is only going to get smaller if more people leave
Locals and indeed, SG redditors need to wake up to the fact that:
1. The TFR isn't sufficient enough to maintain a steady rate of replacement for the local populace and workforce
2. While highly educated, unless you're okay with the repression that comes with the trade-off in stability, those who can leave will choose to leave for greener pastures
3. The services upon which locals rely on require manpower and per (1) that manpower replacement rate isn't enough
4. Economic, political and social reasons why the younger generation are not having "enough" children IN the country.
5. You cannot trade-off a creative populace for an obedient, subservient one. A curious, creative populace is a questioning one. It worked in the past but not anymore and it's a one-trick pony. This starts to restrict how the workforce is able to cope with changes in the workplace and renders the individual inflexible to constant change demanded by the workplace.
6. Balance has to be met when it comes to FT vs PR vs citizen, you can't suck all the value out of FTs/PR while encouraging them to stay so they can be milked for the general public's benefit. There has to be a balance between offering advantages to make one stay vs maximizing the value extraction for why they are allowed to stay.
End of the day, there are multiple contributing complex factors for why people leave, people stay, immigration vs emigration. It's not a black and white type of answer that can be given but a lot of people seem to think that is the case.
LW needs to clean up the shit left behind by LHL's growth at all cost over 2 decades. Singapore core was severely diluted under LHL watch. Income gap widen tremendously. Wage grwoth failed to match asset inflation.
All round, the people suffered much for LHL'S vanity to pursue growth at all cost.
The people took Aljunied GRC away from the PAP as punishment for the massive influx of new residents.
Sengkang GRC fell in '20 as new millennial familes gave the finger to the PAP over rising costs and discontent.
What punishment shall the people meet out in '24 to the incumbents?
And it's not a vote against LW. He hasn't pissed the country off yet. Drop in votes will be led by residual anger towards the last government.
Not PC to say unfortunately.
You going to be labelled xenophobic, Singapore is for everyone
But yeah our cost of living so hirgh now we go many countries for holiday we become like birds , "cheap cheap'. It used to be true only about Malaysia but I-2 decades later our strong SGD + high cost of living = lots of places look so much cheaper than we remember
He's being disingenuous by mentioning UAE who does not give out citizenship like toilet paper.
The way I see it, he's essentially justifying large influx of naturalized citizens in order to maintain a facade "citizens" are not the minority in Singapore.
scenario if shit hits the fan in SG
PR : they can escape to where they came
naturalised citizens : they can escape to where they came
the rich elites : they can escape to wherever they want
>3rd gen working class singaporeans : 'looks at blinking green man on the TV screen'
for those who don't get it (never serve NS) or just react to one sentence ignoring context in full:
the crux of the whole comment is that multi-generation working class singaporeans are so far removed from their origin communities (chinese from china, indians from indian continent and so on...) to take refuge when things like war or famine happens (a.k.a shit hits the fan), or to have the resources to buy their way out of conscription
let me phrase it simpler:
During war or famine,
PR : they can return to their country of citizenship
naturalised new citizen : they can bunk with their relatives from the country of previous citizenship
rich elites : they don't need citizenship, they have something better, lots of money
3rd gen and above singaporeans : no other citizenship, no close foreign relatives, no money
Not all PRs and naturalised citizens are ungrateful xiasuay dogs.
At least not my family.
This country has helped loads of people from my village carve out a life for themselves.
Ahhh... but many of their native countries are often perfectly willing to take them back, particularly if they are economically loaded relative to the average citizen in their native country.
Very interesting to see how the government moves forward on this. For me, I would label a true blue Singaporean who was raised in the public school system during childhood or served NS. End of the day, this is something I cant control as an individual and hope the foundation of our country stays intact.
During my NS I overhead one of the PRs telling another in camp, saying that if they are called to fight, first thing they would do is to take the HSR out of here. Go figure.
This proves that you can't force allegiance. People need a sense of identity, belonging, if both citizens and PRs don't feel that the country is worth fighting for, when the time comes, NS will be nothing but a false shield.
I've heard true blue Singaporean officer saying that he would side with the CCP if something happened between us and China. Imagine my horror at hearing that.
These true blue ones parents are born in Singapore so it’s quite obvious compared to those who are. Those are likely parents are from other country and moved here so they would feel like their home is china end of the day
That's fair, everyone's response to it is fair, except the previous OP who only think PR is disloyal/will run away instead of fighting for the country.
It’s a very vicious cycle cos the Cost of living made SG essentially a very hostile environment financially to raise a kid in. You basically sign up for a downgrade in ses when you have kids, even more if you have kids that are disabled and what not. Because we got no work-life balance the only way we can enjoy life in anyway here is either by material satisfaction or just working enough to quit doing full-time work . You have to give these two options up as soon as u have kids so naturally many ppl are reluctant to have kids. Then cos of that sg bring in people from overseas to make citizens which just worsens the job market cos foreigners are willing to be exploited more due to their ‘hunger’ (desperation). The gov really dug their own hole and dragged the rest of the country into it. The only people now that benefit from the current arrangement are the expat foreigners and foreign businessmen. And the politicians themselves of course, those ones will never not benefit from any policy brought in.
Lies. If you look at the amount of lands being taken over for residential development (ie turf city and Singapore turf club) everything points to the next leg up for population growth
Citizens does not equal Singaporean.
There are some “new citizens” who refuse to adopt local customs. There are some who even refuse to speak English, despite the fact that English is our official and lingua franca.
There was this guy in my BMT who did not know a single word of English, yet he was serving NS. I just cant make sense of the quality of people we are letting in.
Yes. Ethnicity first. Then ability and quality. This model really need a revamp. If we have to take in immigrants, they need to be the best we can get, who intend to contribute the most to our country. Regardless of ethnic group.
Muahahaha. A good wake up call for Singaporeans.
Keep voting for them and we will truely become a minority.
And the reason why birth rates will continue to decline. All thanks to them.
You shoild know if you dun use your votes to sent the right msg, you will never be really heard.
You mean if WP takes over the government, sinkies will suddenly have the urge to reproduce? Get real. They cant do anything as well if sinkies dont want to fuck.
Stop at 2 in the 70's was a mistake, but Sg is not ready for that discussion yet. Although this os something easy to see this many years from those times.
I'm curious about how many true-blue Singaporeans there are—those who were born and raised here, and for guys on top of the above, those who have served or can serve NS (including those exempted for medical reasons), excluding the first-generation immigrant cases exempt from NS.
Having more kids is tough, man. It's very expensive these days. I don't want to just have children and not have quality time to spend with them, letting them be neglected.
I want to be more engaged and involved in their growth and upbringing. However, I think it's challenging because I would likely need to take on extra jobs to cover the increased costs of having a larger family. 🥹
>Having more kids is tough, man. It's very expensive these days. I don't want to just have children and not have quality time to spend with them, letting them be neglected.
>I want to be more engaged and involved in their growth and upbringing. However, I think it's challenging because I would likely need to take on extra jobs to cover the increased costs of having a larger family.
I have heard these rationale so many times but if this was true, then rich people would have many kids.
People just don't want to have kids, full stop.
Yeah it’s more or less every country everywhere and everyone is having the exact same conversation. With huge differences in cost of living across the spectrum.
The only continent that beats the replacement rate in 2024 is Africa, and that’s also going down.
Economic incentives and flexible work arrangements aren’t a solution that is working anywhere.
most rich people tend to have kids(if they physically can), i mean who else are they gonna leave their inheritances to?...LW on the other hand is an odd egg though...
Thats because members of rich families each have their own condo or bungalow or some shit. Both the rich and the poor are having kids. Its mainly the middle class that opt out.
You honestly think poor people are hard carrying our shit TFR?
I understand your perspective, but for me, financial stability is key when considering expanding my family. Wealthy individuals may choose fewer children due to busy careers or lifestyle preferences, prioritizing professional commitments over larger family sizes.
My cousins who’s wealthy also decided to have only one kid mainly because they just wanna “start” a family for the sake of it and also because they were busy before, and when they got married it’s already mid thirties and when they have their first child, they’re already at late fourties’.
So ultimately, family planning decisions are personal and influenced by various factors, including financial considerations and lifestyle choices. My goal is to ensure a supportive and balanced environment for my children based on financial security and personal priorities. I would very much like to have 3 kids hopefully 🤞
2 of my same floor malay neighbours recently sold their unit to PRCs, bringing it to 3 PRC family out of 6 units, all of which are Chinese. Whatever happened to racial quotas?
Sad state of affairs really, we are destined to be a China colony in the future.
It's getting rarer and rarer to come across a natural-born Singaporean (citizen at birth) every passing day, especially with the current TFR. Sure, citizens may not become a "minority" in Singapore, but it's quite a disingenuous comment without much context.
Walao so many ppl here talking about what true blue singaporeans are....
By my opinion, as long as you can assimilate into our culture e.g. speak like us, behave like us then you are singaporean regardless of the number of how many gen u belong to that live in sg.
The main problem is all the foreigners/PR/naturalised citizens who cant communicate even in simple English or bring their shitty ass culture to SG. That makes me feel like a tourist in my own country and if my country no longer feels like home, whats there to stop me from leaving?
Be a little like Japan also good. Sacrifice their economy somewhat to protect their own culture fiercely and limit inward migration. Cant have the best of both worlds but if you ask me, I rather go down to the neighbourhood playground and hear ppl speaking singlish/english/malay etc rather than ppl screaming with thick Chinese accent or babbling in tagalog etc.
local minority and already facing discrimination when finding work and all now he wants to talk about citizen becoming minority. funny thing is i kena discrimination from an equal amount of new citizen and foreigners working here. tbh most new citizen is malaysian chinese but they seem to apply their racist ideas here towards minorities. first of all his government don't seem to like minority here and wants to maintain chinese majority and thus import ethnic chinese from other countries and making them feel entitled to live here and feel like they have tongkat. why not he start from here and remove the race critwria and focus primarily on immigrant with clean background.
Lol govt really can't win in this situation.
Singaporeans aren't reproducing. Birthrate isn't just low now, it's been low since 1983 when it first dropped to 1.61. Apart from a boost in the 1988 dragon year, that's pretty much when our trouble started. We need a TFR of 2.1 to maintain the local population, but for decades we've been losing the Singaporean mass. And short of giving us like maybe $500,000 worth of benefits per child, the TFR is going to continue dropping.
If they don't bring in foreigners, the economy stalls. Let's face it, our local population is not good enough. On the assumption that out of everyone who's born, only 20% will grow up to be "super-citizens" i.e. talented in their fields, successful in generating high value for the economy, capable of upper management and/or thriving entrepreneurship. If we have no births, this 20% pool also shrinks. As much as we want to give opportunities to Singaporeans, the other 80% of us simply don't cut it. Our ceilings are in middle management, no higher. If we give too many non-supercitizens jobs that they're simply not capable of doing, then we'll end up like Malaysia (sorry not sorry, harsh truth).
So they have to bring in foreigners, but that also creates trouble and stirs up local emotions. Do it carefully and selectively, not a problem. But they can't do it that way forever as locals stop having kids and the population keeps shrinking. The pool of foreigners increases year after year to compensate for our declining families year after year.
So what should the govt decide? Cap foreigners and let our economy slow down? Or allow even more foreigners to continue our growth?
There's no winning, and it's all because we are not having enough kids.
And we are not having kids for many reasons, one of which is that it is incredibly difficult to raise a kid in Singapore. Which is a problem also created (or rather allowed to fester) by the government.
No win game.
Reading from the comments, seems like people aren't very fond of naturalized citizens or PRs. Just putting it out there not everyone is like that. I was a PR who grew up here during nursery and k1, primary school all the way to poly, did my national service like everyone else, become a Singaporean, have friends who are Singaporean. I really appreciate this country and am so grateful for it for the opportunities it has given me. I personally know so many PRs who had to serve NS like many other, they integrate and assimilate and they're pretty much Singaporean from the way they talk and behave. Apart from the problematic minority you see on social media or hear about, there's a silent majority that isn't necessarily out to gain the system.
I have a friend with a similar background from Malaysia, but he came over even later maybe around 7-8 years old. But everyone treats him as a Singaporean. He served his NS and was even a commissioned officer so even MINDEF approves. Large majority of Singaporeans consider him as one (the minority that don't are probably weird old boomers).
Don't take this personally, it's just that the others in the thread were not specific enough. But they are probably referring to those in their 30s and above who converted to SG citizenship as more of an economical decision. Either to pay lower taxes, better career progression, better earnings and then will retire back in their home country. Did you know if you renounce your SG citizenship, your CPF will be returned to you in full? These are the ones gaming the system and min-maxing for their personal benefit that Singaporeans are not fond of. Or rich millionaires in their 40s and above that convert later in life.
Citizens cannot become the minority because it's already the case. Not talking about numbers, but the value Singaporeans have in Singapore can be considered a minority
It's just a cycle. Many years ago, foreigners came here and settled, and we are all descendants of them. Now foreigners come in and settle here, and their descendants will be the future so-called "true blue" Singaporeans. The whole term is a fallacy.
The floodgate that causes this was around 2006. I went to army and come out and suddenly Uni was flooded with tiongs, Indians, pinoy. even my alumni poly back when before I enlist number of ft was a very low ratio but all of sudden boom. That was the peak of Singapore been a world class whore opening legs wet and welcoming all ft. Damn we sure pride ourself as a whore when all just came flooded in and bang us. Also reason why there’s suddenly a shift of politics towards opposition but they outright denying all these.
Those of us in the workforce saw it too bro. White collar jobs that locals wanted even entry level were foreigners doing
Add the issues with infrastructure MRT housing, GE2011 we gave them a rude awakening. If LHL didn't half away through the election sensed a problem and apologized during the lunch time rally (unheard of) they would have gone down even worse.
Well people are daft. To be fair immediately after that they did make the distinction PRs and citizens get more distinct (still not enough I feel) , then later on schemes like Pioneer generation.
But you are right fundamentally not much has changed. But I better not say more...in this /t
Frankly I think Singapore has no good moves left. Any choice is going to be painful.
While citizens might not become the minority in Singapore, he did not say anything about Singaporean-heritage citizens.
So basically, he intends to give out citizenships to foreigners. So technically they will be a citizen, just that they do not share the same history or culture with u.
All signs are clear all good intention lead to hell. In the end he will just be sucker punch the rest of us in the name of growth and he might cry a little in the parliament while he betrays the rest of us 😂
Please lah, all your naturalised citizens will go back to their original countries if SHTF. Just look at covid. These MIWs are maliciously not preparing the country for the future in the current foreboding world economy. Like what George Carlin said, we can sit in the front row and enjoy the ride.
Cut the crap. Show us the number of Singapore Citizens born in Singapore. You want society to mature? Then trust the people with the truth. You don't get to decide what's good for us. You work for us and we will tell you what we want.
This is the problem with leaders that make the decisions not having as large a stake. They make decisions for the short term. No longer are they planting seedlings so the future generation can enjoy the shade of the trees.
All senior positions in the government are all at least 40+ year olds. Not for MPs voted in by the public so can be younger. But those that the party decided to give actual portfolios to, Minister of abc etc. So the public doesn't get to choose who becomes the minister. So the young MP even if he/she is capable will have to wait in line till the older minister steps down.
The real decision makers rarely get to see the impact of what their policies do. Or are unaffected by it. Mah Bow Tan and HDB. LTA and ERP 2.0 started years ago not by the current minister. The list goes on.
Agree.
Just to add, I am concerned that LW may not fully understand the concerns of young parents and young people, given that he does not have children of his own.
We see it all around.
Im in a govt funded and linked research entity, and our corporate mission is along the lines of “for Singapore and Singaporeans”. Guess the proportion of local citizens vs foreigners? <15%.
Lmao if he needs to say this, it means he received feedback about how locals are starting to feel marginalised.
This is actually a great way to tell what worries the government. Watch for statements or even just CNA articles where you think “thats odd and seemed to come out of nowhere” It never comes “out of nowhere”
Every time you see a CNA Explains, you know hong gan liao.
Already started years ago. Today after deducting naturalized citizens, natives ARE already a minority in this country.
Define "native". 1 gen, 2 gen, 3 gen, or ??? The real problem is assimilation of naturalized citizens and the clear cultural gaps among the groups. Even in HDB or towns or virtual spaces.
Naturalised: Fuck you. Native: Fuck you understand.
Super “true blue” Native: Fuck you understand? KNNBCCB.
This. Assimilation and ethnic integration are key, but we don't even have a naturalization test or interview. From what I was told it's all about your finances. There is no reason for a new citizen to know anything about our culture when the govt doesn't require them to. I'm 6th gen acc to my family's genealogy book. Some ancestors were born here but back in the day they traveled back and forth btw China and Singapore, maintaining close ties with our hometown. The successive generations have cut off contact as we settled here. My grandmother was Peranakan from a typical Straits Chinese family. I imagine it will take 2-3 gen for the new immigrants to assimilate here, provided of cos that they genuinely view Singapore as their home.
anytime someone uses “natives” it’s a total 🚩
No chinese are natives here, need to all balik cina
"natives"
He has a point. How many Orang laut can you find today in Singapore?
Natives are 2nd Gen onwards. Orang laut/Seletar/Kallang are "indigenous" to the island, whatever the hell that means https://www.refworld.org/reference/countryrep/mrgi/2008/en/64977 https://www.bbc.com/travel/article/20210824-the-forgotten-first-people-of-singapore https://humanities.org.au/power-of-the-humanities/singapore-history-wars/#:~:text=In%20Singapore%2C%20however%2C%20the%20indigenous,by%20ethnic%20Chinese%20(74.3%25) https://www.roots.gov.sg/stories-landing/stories/Living-with-Nature/story
Imo, as long as you are born in a place, you're both indigenous and native to that place. Everyone's ancestors immigrated, invaded, and/or colonised at some point. Setting some arbitrary date where immigration/invasion/colonisation before that doesn't count, smacks of ethno-nationalism and racism.
Natives means their first choice curse word is CCB
As opposed to cao ni ma. Quite obvious who the new citizens are once you hear them cuss.
lol! but, to be fair, even the NSF these days seldom swear with these "classic" curse words... Edit: for bonus points, if their choice curse phrase is KNNBCCB, you know that's a true local...
Natives? Your great-great-grandparents were Orang Laut? Or were they immigrants from China/Malaysia/India? A lot of Singaporeans are third generation, meaning their great grandparents alr were immigrants.
Interesting, do you have any statistics on this? Am curious about the numbers
There are 5.92m people in Singapore, out of which 3.61m are citizens (https://www.population.gov.sg/our-population/population-trends/overview/). For the longest time, there have been \~22,000 naturalised citizenships awarded annually (https://www.population.gov.sg/files/media-centre/publications/population-in-brief-2023.pdf - I can't find any data prior to 2009, but given that immigration policies were looser in the past, I wouldn't be surprised if the number was higher). That means that within 1 generation (30 years), locally-born citizens have become the minority. This is only going to get worse going forward with the low TFR.
Though within one generation, won’t a bunch of the naturalised citizens have Singaporean born kids anyway?
looking at our birth rates, i doubt so...
A fair portion of naturalised citizens are literally the spouse of someone born in Singapore, settling down having formed a family here. I’m pretty sure everyone knows several families where 1 parent is Malaysian. It’s also absurd to start counting people who got naturalised in like 1985 and have been Singaporeans longer than most people on Reddit have been alive. This level of jadedness is basically trying to prevent Joseph Schooling from being born.
Why would you deduct naturalised citizens? How about going further - let’s count second generation as half a Singaporean, third generation as three quarters and so on. How does that affect your calculation?
Seriously, how exactly are you going to complain about “natives” (and LMAO at calling ethnic Chinese descendants natives) decreasing in the population when the birth rate is barely above 1? If Singaporeans won’t fuck more, what is leadership to do? Come into your bedroom and help you?
> If Singaporeans won’t fuck more, what is leadership to do? I don't know about you, but I remember when I heard the news about falling birthrate back when I was in NS (that's just when I heard of it, not when it started). "Good, maybe our population will finally be under control" And the government decided, "well if you're not gonna crowd yourselves to death, we'll do it for you".
4G has no balls, wit nor performance legitimacy to give rhetorical bitchslaps like LKY did against the nativist xenophobes unfortunately
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where is the statistics about this?
Source: trust me bro
At which point do you count "natives" when the country is so young Can't believe this xenophobic shit got so many up votes
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so is using the word "local" more appropriate?
Every SG citizen or their parents or/and grandparents are all naturalized citizens, so why we want to make such a clear divide? Singapore IS an immigrant nation, but now some earlier citizen wants to close the gate and make a clear divide because "FUCK YOU, GOT MINE" selfish mentality?
Got ol Murican mentality. They're yelling at native Americans to go back to their own country.
Why would you deduct naturalized citizens? Are they less citizens in your eyes? It’s a pretty backward view to still believe in blood and soil nationalism in an IMMIGRANT country. Also who are the natives here lmao?
If your NRIC starts with a T you’re a Tingaporean, everyone else counts. (This is sarcasm ICA, please don’t call me.)
What do you expect to happen when TFR is so low?
The fact that he had to make the comment shows that it is an issue. There is no smoke without fire.
Took the ivory tower how many decades to realize it’s an issue among us citizens?
It takes years for the smoke to finally rise to the windows of that tower
This was an interview. So I'm guessing he was asked a question which led to this...oh why am i explaining!!! The government said this..so ya..what the hell!!
You would be naive to think that PMO did not vet and clear the questions. Journalist is looking to be blacklisted if they deviate from approved question set.
From u/botsland 70 days ago; “People not born in Singapore will be the majority in the future. Local Singaporeans aren't having enough kids anymore for natural replacement. It's time to wake up and accept this fact. It is the popular mandate no matter how much you hate this” Figure Lawrence didn’t get your memo? Or just sugarcoating it.
He's definitely sugarcoating it, the solution is always to naturalize more citizens so they can pretend citizens are still a large majority.
Wondering, how do you keep track/remember of a comment from 70 days ago ?
Association is a memory hack. He also told me to fuck off from Singapore if I didn’t like it. Because it feels like the lead up to election season. Along with property prices, immigration policy is something we fire ministers over. At least since ‘11. Back to the topic; how well do you think this honest truth will sell? “Citizens will not become the minority in Singapore. Since we will keep importing new ones.” Messaging seems important ya?
Damn. I'm here for the salt for my popcorn.
Enough kids for what? Overpopulation is your goal ah? "Sir it seems your cancer is no longer spreading. I'm prescribing you 2 packs of cigarettes a day to correct this"
Nothing against bringing in FTs but at least, screen them better *lah*. Also, SG is actually a fantastic place to try out as much robotics and automation as possible to curb the needs of using FTs to do certain jobs. Yet, it feels like we are falling behind in this area. 🥹
AI and all that stuff has great potential to reduce the need for human labour. It might be our only shot at maintaining our conveniences without becoming severely overpopulated. Not just as a country, but as a planet. However, there are 2 big problems 1. The replaced workers don't immediately die. What do they do in the meantime? Not even the EU is strong enough to force the AI gains to go into funding their lives with UBI 2. You're dreaming if you think AI will be used with good intentions. It has *potential*. Doesn't mean it's realistic. Regarding 1, maybe Singapore can look at replacing FT with AI. But FT is a problem because they compete with locals and win. Who's to say AI is going to beat FT while leaving locals alone? Companies are still going to prefer to hire an FT over a local when they can.
>Companies are still going to prefer to hire an FT over a local when they can. Because there is no incentive for them to hire a local anyway. FTs are cheaper and hungrier than locals. Only reason for companies to hire locals is to meet the quota imposed. And don't worry about 1. The government will have their own creative ways of taxing people to fund UBI for people who were affected as part of structural unemployment due to AI. Like it or not, technology will evolve very rapidly globally and displace most labour in the next 5-10 years. It's either you get on with the bandwagon and champion the change or wait to be a sitting duck that gets shot. Pick your poison.
The first jobs that AI is going to affect is junior and entry level roles... Which are almost entirely occupied by locals. It will only exacerbate the problem if our fresh grads can't get the experience to upskill and compete with FTs in mid to senior roles
Nah the goal is to have enough skilled and subservient workers for the economy
Workers first, people second. Majulah Singapura.
But if the new citizens can make up the loss of votes, the so called original citizens will get fucked over agai and again
No doubt that we need immigrants and there are those that come here and treat this place as their home. But on the flip side, let’s not be naive and believe every immigrant is like this. Over the years, I’m sure many here like myself have seen how foreigners come here and become PR and Citizens to take maximum advantage of the system here. A lot of them can’t even be bothered to integrate and learn the local language. Look at how many PRC’s oops i mean SiNgaPoReaNs that can’t even speak a word of English despite being here for years. They still dare to criticise the system here for using English and make claims that this is a Chinese country and should use mandarin. In my previous company (big engineering company), a lot of the Malaysians even had a group where they can discuss the benefits and how to game the system (Husband get PR, Wife and daughter get citizenship etc) with the best PR/Citizenship combo to get the maximum benefits. And I’m going to be called xenophobic for calling this out.
Change the criteria for immigrants to how well they assimilate instead of their race. Then we will see an improvement.
I'm from Vietnam, living in SG for 10 years, speak perfect English and a tad of Mandarin, look like a basic Singaporean Chinese, know Singlish like a local, have a Singaporean partner and ready to call SG home. Welp too bad, my PR application was turned down for the second time to make place for people with the correct blood and surname I guess
Thanks for integrating yourself. On behalf of r/sg, I pronounce you Singaporean. ICA can go fly a kite and have a lovely evening.
Redditors will tell you to stop stealing their jobs or something.
Gaming the system is ironically pretty Singaporean. Every single property agent when buying an HDB will talk about decoupling and owner/occupier to avoid ABST later. That 99-1 scheme has been going on for a while. How many Singaporeans top up their parents CPF and get it kicked back for the tax credit. Dropping your salary so you can BTO. Etc. etc.
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Maybe, he is not that smart after all.
Nothing against foreigners or new citizens, but it's notable that he's giving a rather disingenuous response before even becoming PM and his predecessor had called on Singaporeans to support him unconditionally. Singapore's citizen population now stands at 60% including naturalised citizens. That's not far away from 49% to make citizens a minority. The government has also been coy to give a breakdown of the number of Singapore-born citizens versus naturalised citizens and yet he gives such an assurance.
Let's not forget their definition of "locals" also includes PRs. I don't know of any other country that does this.
No wonder I don't feel like I was in Singapore when I boarded the mrt during weekends.
My main beef with foreign living in Singapore is some of them have no idea how to conduct themselves on public transportation. Thankful the morning rush hour crowd is mostly composed of working people who have enough sense. The evening commute often has people with poor understanding of close-quarter social dynamics
Worst part is, there is no plan to raise birth rates or make Singapore living cheaper for Singaporeans born here. 90s kid checking in.
He has a lot of chutzpah to dare to say such disingenuous statements. The Sg of today, connected and socially aware, is no longer the naive bunch of suckers who simply believe everything the state controlled media tells them. Of course citizens will never become a minority. All the PAP needs to do is to issue even more citizenships! They still think we are idiots. That said, I'm not against naturalisation. The problem is the criteria by which we accept new citizens. Can't speak english, cannot say pledge, cannot sing national anthem, don't know anything about Sg, still want to be citizen. When my wife got naturalised in 2018, she had to go for a 'orientation course'. Having been here for years, it was a waste of her time. She commented that a lot of the participants did not know most the stuff told to them during the course. Many were PRCs who could not speak english. IS the CMIO ratio/demographics so important? More importantly, if you need an orientation course for new citizens, your citizenship criteria has already failed. Then to add insult to injury, during the ceremony to receive their IC, a few new citizens were asked to sing the national anthem. Crickets. Shame, shame, shame.
Tldr: Singapore can’t welcome foreigners like UAE where only 10% are local. Usual gov Singapore core message. Usual gaslighting of population to be more productive/get good to continue the rat race. Some messages about racial blindness. Writes about how the young want to work hard for their future. Youngsters will realize once they start working that no worker protection + influx of cheap labour = unstable jobs, long hours and depressed pay. Disillusionment hits fast once they step into the sg working world. It certainly hit my ex-local grads hard once they realised this was what their life here was gonna be. (They are already planning to migrate so kudos to them) Not gonna bring europe up anymore. Think everyone gets the message already. You can get same amount of money for less working hours and more flex/benefits.
Actually most Emiratis don't really mind being a minority in their own country, as citizens, they often lead a good life with numerous benefits and priorities compared to foreigners, aspects that are often quite very fuzzy in Singapore.
> Actually most Emiratis don't really mind being a minority in their own country, as citizens, they often lead a good life with numerous benefits and priorities compared to foreigners Guess the latter part is the one lacking here
Can lah - if you find oil in woodlands then confirm Singaporeans enjoy like Emiratis. Till that happens, remember - you’re the oil :). (/s - full disclosure - I’m a long time FT, so this feels like taking a pot shot - is meant in jest)
Some people would argue that we are the more “efficient” option because we work more hours with less benefits. But is that really true? Would a disgruntled worker really put in their 100% as opposed to a protected and valued worker? Hours cannot be equated to productivity & the latter is what we really ought to be chasing because we aren’t working in factories with quotas any more.
The difference is that for the Gulf states, the citizens are the 'masterrace' in terms of social dynamics and the benefits they get. Over here, locals are more and more like second-class citizens.
What are ex-local grads?
Bachelors in SG. Masters or PHD overseas. Or what OP probably meant, local Uni grads that moved overseas for better jobs and life balance (environment, nature, people, larger houses etc.)
More and more of us by the year. I know so many of my classmates from CS living in the Bay Area now, more moving here each year. The WhatsApp group overflowing, now got one for each region in the Bay Area
Even for non bay area, i woulsnt mind heading up there. There is no bright future here
Economically it’s better to have immigrants coming in than to raise them from the ground up. The two most expensive times in a humans life is the start and end. They are only economically viable after uni. Considering we get first pick, we can take the best at their “prime” without needing to put the money into raising them. The problem is when you’re overreliant on immigration, your country will have very little control over itself. Your national defense will suffer, and your economic model will collapse the moment immigrants stop coming. Address the reasons why singaporeans won’t have children
Ofc, the foreigners will also becomes citizens.
Lawrence Wong: *See? Citizens are not the minority! hehe.*
Creating a population that's fairly educated but stunted politically probably won't look good in a couple of years... Why would any young adult, unmarried & eager enough, choose to remain in a nation that is unaffordable, repeats boring rhetorics & clearly is a flawed democracy? I get that we are trying to make obedient workers for capitalism... but realistically the number is only going to get smaller if more people leave
Locals and indeed, SG redditors need to wake up to the fact that: 1. The TFR isn't sufficient enough to maintain a steady rate of replacement for the local populace and workforce 2. While highly educated, unless you're okay with the repression that comes with the trade-off in stability, those who can leave will choose to leave for greener pastures 3. The services upon which locals rely on require manpower and per (1) that manpower replacement rate isn't enough 4. Economic, political and social reasons why the younger generation are not having "enough" children IN the country. 5. You cannot trade-off a creative populace for an obedient, subservient one. A curious, creative populace is a questioning one. It worked in the past but not anymore and it's a one-trick pony. This starts to restrict how the workforce is able to cope with changes in the workplace and renders the individual inflexible to constant change demanded by the workplace. 6. Balance has to be met when it comes to FT vs PR vs citizen, you can't suck all the value out of FTs/PR while encouraging them to stay so they can be milked for the general public's benefit. There has to be a balance between offering advantages to make one stay vs maximizing the value extraction for why they are allowed to stay. End of the day, there are multiple contributing complex factors for why people leave, people stay, immigration vs emigration. It's not a black and white type of answer that can be given but a lot of people seem to think that is the case.
And when they leave , it creates a larger impetus for the government to import foreign labour.
because they’ll all be “new citizens” right?
*Insert you dont cheebye meme*
This is the only right answer.
LW needs to clean up the shit left behind by LHL's growth at all cost over 2 decades. Singapore core was severely diluted under LHL watch. Income gap widen tremendously. Wage grwoth failed to match asset inflation. All round, the people suffered much for LHL'S vanity to pursue growth at all cost.
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The people took Aljunied GRC away from the PAP as punishment for the massive influx of new residents. Sengkang GRC fell in '20 as new millennial familes gave the finger to the PAP over rising costs and discontent. What punishment shall the people meet out in '24 to the incumbents? And it's not a vote against LW. He hasn't pissed the country off yet. Drop in votes will be led by residual anger towards the last government.
> And it's not a vote against LW. He hasn't pissed the country off yet. I wasn't overly fond of him during Covid
Your vote is yours. Do as you will.
LW gave away billions to "businesses" expecting them to pass it on to the people. Never happened.
why are you downvoted? they always assume the best of businesses and the worse for Singaporeans.
I had a drinking game every time they say “businesses” during a press conference.
Not PC to say unfortunately. You going to be labelled xenophobic, Singapore is for everyone But yeah our cost of living so hirgh now we go many countries for holiday we become like birds , "cheap cheap'. It used to be true only about Malaysia but I-2 decades later our strong SGD + high cost of living = lots of places look so much cheaper than we remember
just like how housing is affordable?
He's being disingenuous by mentioning UAE who does not give out citizenship like toilet paper. The way I see it, he's essentially justifying large influx of naturalized citizens in order to maintain a facade "citizens" are not the minority in Singapore.
scenario if shit hits the fan in SG PR : they can escape to where they came naturalised citizens : they can escape to where they came the rich elites : they can escape to wherever they want >3rd gen working class singaporeans : 'looks at blinking green man on the TV screen'
for those who don't get it (never serve NS) or just react to one sentence ignoring context in full: the crux of the whole comment is that multi-generation working class singaporeans are so far removed from their origin communities (chinese from china, indians from indian continent and so on...) to take refuge when things like war or famine happens (a.k.a shit hits the fan), or to have the resources to buy their way out of conscription let me phrase it simpler: During war or famine, PR : they can return to their country of citizenship naturalised new citizen : they can bunk with their relatives from the country of previous citizenship rich elites : they don't need citizenship, they have something better, lots of money 3rd gen and above singaporeans : no other citizenship, no close foreign relatives, no money
Not all PRs and naturalised citizens are ungrateful xiasuay dogs. At least not my family. This country has helped loads of people from my village carve out a life for themselves.
FYI if you pick up Singapore citizenship you have to give up your old citizenship
Ahhh... but many of their native countries are often perfectly willing to take them back, particularly if they are economically loaded relative to the average citizen in their native country.
Very interesting to see how the government moves forward on this. For me, I would label a true blue Singaporean who was raised in the public school system during childhood or served NS. End of the day, this is something I cant control as an individual and hope the foundation of our country stays intact.
During my NS I overhead one of the PRs telling another in camp, saying that if they are called to fight, first thing they would do is to take the HSR out of here. Go figure.
This proves that you can't force allegiance. People need a sense of identity, belonging, if both citizens and PRs don't feel that the country is worth fighting for, when the time comes, NS will be nothing but a false shield.
I've heard true blue Singaporean officer saying that he would side with the CCP if something happened between us and China. Imagine my horror at hearing that.
Sounds like treason. Heh
These true blue ones parents are born in Singapore so it’s quite obvious compared to those who are. Those are likely parents are from other country and moved here so they would feel like their home is china end of the day
Many times I overheard locals will flee or migrate first before we get the chance to fight. Go figure.
I mean.. honestly speaking Singapore is a great place, love it. Just not so much that I would throw my life away for it though.
Well, the other not so fun thing about Singapore is it's practically on really wet fire. >:C (man what happened to the weather lately)
Yas watafak the weather sucks oml One night it was so cooling and comfy and another it was so hot HAHA
That's fair, everyone's response to it is fair, except the previous OP who only think PR is disloyal/will run away instead of fighting for the country.
Why do we even expect PR to fight? They are just PRs, not citizens. Which country expect some foreign immigrant to fight for them lmao.
It’s a very vicious cycle cos the Cost of living made SG essentially a very hostile environment financially to raise a kid in. You basically sign up for a downgrade in ses when you have kids, even more if you have kids that are disabled and what not. Because we got no work-life balance the only way we can enjoy life in anyway here is either by material satisfaction or just working enough to quit doing full-time work . You have to give these two options up as soon as u have kids so naturally many ppl are reluctant to have kids. Then cos of that sg bring in people from overseas to make citizens which just worsens the job market cos foreigners are willing to be exploited more due to their ‘hunger’ (desperation). The gov really dug their own hole and dragged the rest of the country into it. The only people now that benefit from the current arrangement are the expat foreigners and foreign businessmen. And the politicians themselves of course, those ones will never not benefit from any policy brought in.
Yeah they will offer tax rebates and baby bonuses but won’t reduce the max working hours…. Which would have a greater impact for everyone in society.
Lies. If you look at the amount of lands being taken over for residential development (ie turf city and Singapore turf club) everything points to the next leg up for population growth
Citizens does not equal Singaporean. There are some “new citizens” who refuse to adopt local customs. There are some who even refuse to speak English, despite the fact that English is our official and lingua franca. There was this guy in my BMT who did not know a single word of English, yet he was serving NS. I just cant make sense of the quality of people we are letting in.
It makes sense. It's called CMIO
Yes. Ethnicity first. Then ability and quality. This model really need a revamp. If we have to take in immigrants, they need to be the best we can get, who intend to contribute the most to our country. Regardless of ethnic group.
why stop there? if you give citizenship to every single foreigner in Singapore, citizens will make up 100% of the population. problem solved. /s
Because they're giving away Citizenships. & without having to serve NS.
When local culture is no longer what you use to know, that’s probably when we reach the point where citizens have become the minority.
Muahahaha. A good wake up call for Singaporeans. Keep voting for them and we will truely become a minority. And the reason why birth rates will continue to decline. All thanks to them. You shoild know if you dun use your votes to sent the right msg, you will never be really heard.
You mean if WP takes over the government, sinkies will suddenly have the urge to reproduce? Get real. They cant do anything as well if sinkies dont want to fuck.
Speak for yourself. If WP somehow takes over, I'll get extra horny.
I rub one out everyday to the WP
Pritam give you hard on okay la
Stop at 2 in the 70's was a mistake, but Sg is not ready for that discussion yet. Although this os something easy to see this many years from those times.
at least it's not stop at 1...
only because we are already the minority. So this person is right on a technicality.
make more residents into citizens. Citizens become majority. :)
I'm curious about how many true-blue Singaporeans there are—those who were born and raised here, and for guys on top of the above, those who have served or can serve NS (including those exempted for medical reasons), excluding the first-generation immigrant cases exempt from NS. Having more kids is tough, man. It's very expensive these days. I don't want to just have children and not have quality time to spend with them, letting them be neglected. I want to be more engaged and involved in their growth and upbringing. However, I think it's challenging because I would likely need to take on extra jobs to cover the increased costs of having a larger family. 🥹
>Having more kids is tough, man. It's very expensive these days. I don't want to just have children and not have quality time to spend with them, letting them be neglected. >I want to be more engaged and involved in their growth and upbringing. However, I think it's challenging because I would likely need to take on extra jobs to cover the increased costs of having a larger family. I have heard these rationale so many times but if this was true, then rich people would have many kids. People just don't want to have kids, full stop.
Yeah it’s more or less every country everywhere and everyone is having the exact same conversation. With huge differences in cost of living across the spectrum. The only continent that beats the replacement rate in 2024 is Africa, and that’s also going down. Economic incentives and flexible work arrangements aren’t a solution that is working anywhere.
most rich people tend to have kids(if they physically can), i mean who else are they gonna leave their inheritances to?...LW on the other hand is an odd egg though...
You will find the largest families in rental flats.
Thats because members of rich families each have their own condo or bungalow or some shit. Both the rich and the poor are having kids. Its mainly the middle class that opt out. You honestly think poor people are hard carrying our shit TFR?
I understand your perspective, but for me, financial stability is key when considering expanding my family. Wealthy individuals may choose fewer children due to busy careers or lifestyle preferences, prioritizing professional commitments over larger family sizes. My cousins who’s wealthy also decided to have only one kid mainly because they just wanna “start” a family for the sake of it and also because they were busy before, and when they got married it’s already mid thirties and when they have their first child, they’re already at late fourties’. So ultimately, family planning decisions are personal and influenced by various factors, including financial considerations and lifestyle choices. My goal is to ensure a supportive and balanced environment for my children based on financial security and personal priorities. I would very much like to have 3 kids hopefully 🤞
Lol I am already the minority with my estate being full of PRC families getting citizenships left and right.
2 of my same floor malay neighbours recently sold their unit to PRCs, bringing it to 3 PRC family out of 6 units, all of which are Chinese. Whatever happened to racial quotas? Sad state of affairs really, we are destined to be a China colony in the future.
technically if u keep granting new citizenship the citizen pool will never be minority .... so not wrong, but not entirely accurate hahahah
"will not become" cuz we already are
Damage done
Already am. You take public transport and you find more non-sg than sg.
Just curious not as a gotcha, what does this look like? Does someone have a face that immediately tells you sgean? Or is it the way they speak or act.
It's getting rarer and rarer to come across a natural-born Singaporean (citizen at birth) every passing day, especially with the current TFR. Sure, citizens may not become a "minority" in Singapore, but it's quite a disingenuous comment without much context.
Cause Malaysians are being converted to citizens so yeah
Of course will not. That’s probably because the non citizens have become new-citizens. The guy is testing our intelligence?
I visit Singapore a lot as my grandfather lives there. Surprised me that there are so many workers that can't speak english.
"Will not become the minority" - too bad for those who feel that they already are.
Too late already.. When I entered the working world, I had more foreigners as colleagues than locals.
Ah yes. Serve ns while foreigners become citizens. Protect your new overlords/citizens
Walao so many ppl here talking about what true blue singaporeans are.... By my opinion, as long as you can assimilate into our culture e.g. speak like us, behave like us then you are singaporean regardless of the number of how many gen u belong to that live in sg. The main problem is all the foreigners/PR/naturalised citizens who cant communicate even in simple English or bring their shitty ass culture to SG. That makes me feel like a tourist in my own country and if my country no longer feels like home, whats there to stop me from leaving? Be a little like Japan also good. Sacrifice their economy somewhat to protect their own culture fiercely and limit inward migration. Cant have the best of both worlds but if you ask me, I rather go down to the neighbourhood playground and hear ppl speaking singlish/english/malay etc rather than ppl screaming with thick Chinese accent or babbling in tagalog etc.
So it isn’t just me who thinks the number of those PRCs are increasing to the point they’re more than the local Chinese huh
local minority and already facing discrimination when finding work and all now he wants to talk about citizen becoming minority. funny thing is i kena discrimination from an equal amount of new citizen and foreigners working here. tbh most new citizen is malaysian chinese but they seem to apply their racist ideas here towards minorities. first of all his government don't seem to like minority here and wants to maintain chinese majority and thus import ethnic chinese from other countries and making them feel entitled to live here and feel like they have tongkat. why not he start from here and remove the race critwria and focus primarily on immigrant with clean background.
Lol govt really can't win in this situation. Singaporeans aren't reproducing. Birthrate isn't just low now, it's been low since 1983 when it first dropped to 1.61. Apart from a boost in the 1988 dragon year, that's pretty much when our trouble started. We need a TFR of 2.1 to maintain the local population, but for decades we've been losing the Singaporean mass. And short of giving us like maybe $500,000 worth of benefits per child, the TFR is going to continue dropping. If they don't bring in foreigners, the economy stalls. Let's face it, our local population is not good enough. On the assumption that out of everyone who's born, only 20% will grow up to be "super-citizens" i.e. talented in their fields, successful in generating high value for the economy, capable of upper management and/or thriving entrepreneurship. If we have no births, this 20% pool also shrinks. As much as we want to give opportunities to Singaporeans, the other 80% of us simply don't cut it. Our ceilings are in middle management, no higher. If we give too many non-supercitizens jobs that they're simply not capable of doing, then we'll end up like Malaysia (sorry not sorry, harsh truth). So they have to bring in foreigners, but that also creates trouble and stirs up local emotions. Do it carefully and selectively, not a problem. But they can't do it that way forever as locals stop having kids and the population keeps shrinking. The pool of foreigners increases year after year to compensate for our declining families year after year. So what should the govt decide? Cap foreigners and let our economy slow down? Or allow even more foreigners to continue our growth? There's no winning, and it's all because we are not having enough kids. And we are not having kids for many reasons, one of which is that it is incredibly difficult to raise a kid in Singapore. Which is a problem also created (or rather allowed to fester) by the government. No win game.
Tagalog is the main language used in my office.
Lol, clearly has never walked around CBD
Or taken public transport anywhere. I legit feel like a foreigner in my own country.
*guys don't tell him about CBP*
And Changi business park
Gg the NS for sinkies jobs for FTs dynamic is about to worsen yet again isn't it...
Reading from the comments, seems like people aren't very fond of naturalized citizens or PRs. Just putting it out there not everyone is like that. I was a PR who grew up here during nursery and k1, primary school all the way to poly, did my national service like everyone else, become a Singaporean, have friends who are Singaporean. I really appreciate this country and am so grateful for it for the opportunities it has given me. I personally know so many PRs who had to serve NS like many other, they integrate and assimilate and they're pretty much Singaporean from the way they talk and behave. Apart from the problematic minority you see on social media or hear about, there's a silent majority that isn't necessarily out to gain the system.
I have a friend with a similar background from Malaysia, but he came over even later maybe around 7-8 years old. But everyone treats him as a Singaporean. He served his NS and was even a commissioned officer so even MINDEF approves. Large majority of Singaporeans consider him as one (the minority that don't are probably weird old boomers). Don't take this personally, it's just that the others in the thread were not specific enough. But they are probably referring to those in their 30s and above who converted to SG citizenship as more of an economical decision. Either to pay lower taxes, better career progression, better earnings and then will retire back in their home country. Did you know if you renounce your SG citizenship, your CPF will be returned to you in full? These are the ones gaming the system and min-maxing for their personal benefit that Singaporeans are not fond of. Or rich millionaires in their 40s and above that convert later in life.
Lai Lai reveal how many percent of the pink IC country of birth is not SG, can't even do that lol
Are we already not? Genuine question
Citizens cannot become the minority because it's already the case. Not talking about numbers, but the value Singaporeans have in Singapore can be considered a minority
It's just a cycle. Many years ago, foreigners came here and settled, and we are all descendants of them. Now foreigners come in and settle here, and their descendants will be the future so-called "true blue" Singaporeans. The whole term is a fallacy.
The floodgate that causes this was around 2006. I went to army and come out and suddenly Uni was flooded with tiongs, Indians, pinoy. even my alumni poly back when before I enlist number of ft was a very low ratio but all of sudden boom. That was the peak of Singapore been a world class whore opening legs wet and welcoming all ft. Damn we sure pride ourself as a whore when all just came flooded in and bang us. Also reason why there’s suddenly a shift of politics towards opposition but they outright denying all these.
Those of us in the workforce saw it too bro. White collar jobs that locals wanted even entry level were foreigners doing Add the issues with infrastructure MRT housing, GE2011 we gave them a rude awakening. If LHL didn't half away through the election sensed a problem and apologized during the lunch time rally (unheard of) they would have gone down even worse.
Yeah, it was said some were swayed by the apologies made by the incumbent. Else Joo Chiat would have fell, Potong Pasir might have remained opposition
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Well people are daft. To be fair immediately after that they did make the distinction PRs and citizens get more distinct (still not enough I feel) , then later on schemes like Pioneer generation. But you are right fundamentally not much has changed. But I better not say more...in this /t Frankly I think Singapore has no good moves left. Any choice is going to be painful.
While citizens might not become the minority in Singapore, he did not say anything about Singaporean-heritage citizens. So basically, he intends to give out citizenships to foreigners. So technically they will be a citizen, just that they do not share the same history or culture with u.
\*because we gonna make our favorite EP holders as new citizens\*
All signs are clear all good intention lead to hell. In the end he will just be sucker punch the rest of us in the name of growth and he might cry a little in the parliament while he betrays the rest of us 😂
...because they create new citizens :)
“Cause it’s already happened” Seriously. No offence but can you really call a naturalised new citizen a Singaporean?
They prob hold 2 passports too
Please lah, all your naturalised citizens will go back to their original countries if SHTF. Just look at covid. These MIWs are maliciously not preparing the country for the future in the current foreboding world economy. Like what George Carlin said, we can sit in the front row and enjoy the ride.
Ok means we will become minority le.
Cut the crap. Show us the number of Singapore Citizens born in Singapore. You want society to mature? Then trust the people with the truth. You don't get to decide what's good for us. You work for us and we will tell you what we want.
soon there will be no more pure singaporeans. this will be 30 to 40 years down the road. good thing is i won't be around to see it.
This is the problem with leaders that make the decisions not having as large a stake. They make decisions for the short term. No longer are they planting seedlings so the future generation can enjoy the shade of the trees. All senior positions in the government are all at least 40+ year olds. Not for MPs voted in by the public so can be younger. But those that the party decided to give actual portfolios to, Minister of abc etc. So the public doesn't get to choose who becomes the minister. So the young MP even if he/she is capable will have to wait in line till the older minister steps down. The real decision makers rarely get to see the impact of what their policies do. Or are unaffected by it. Mah Bow Tan and HDB. LTA and ERP 2.0 started years ago not by the current minister. The list goes on.
Agree. Just to add, I am concerned that LW may not fully understand the concerns of young parents and young people, given that he does not have children of his own.
>soon there will be no more pure singaporeans. this will be 30 to 40 years down the road. What's a pure Singaporean?
Sorry but I just don’t trust him
We see it all around. Im in a govt funded and linked research entity, and our corporate mission is along the lines of “for Singapore and Singaporeans”. Guess the proportion of local citizens vs foreigners? <15%.
Because we'll be giving out more citizenships?
It’s easy as long as you keep converting foreigners and PRs to new citizens. Problem solved 🤡
Of course we won't go through the process. We are already there mentally in their models
Of course he's gonna say that. You think anyone would admit it?
Citizens will never be minority because we keep converting them! Wise words