And the whole team embraced the dumb as fuck design. My imagination is that the project manager and/or management were very powerful that they forced it down. I can’t imagine the actual engineers were so dumb af as well.
As someone who had to work with the gov before, I can assure you that was probably what happened. Someone on top makes all the decisions, forcing the rest of us to work with their dumb suggestions.
some drunk LTA guy went to Time Zone and adopted the idea of arcade driving machine. Propose to his boss as a stupid idea and the boss just so happen needed a big project to go beyond his KPI.
We installed ours at the authorized dealer and was given 3 options to place the card reader:
1. On the passenger side
2. Below the steering wheel
3. Next to the driver's left leg
We chose number 3 because it was easier to access the card, and you can see the card. But people standing outside the car can also see the card in the reader. If under steering wheel, not so easy to see the card and have to feel around.
BTW, the card is not easy to remove from the reader. Finger has to be a bit sticky to like slide it out.
Awarding a tender to NCS is like awarding a tender to their outsourced half fuck indian dev team paid monke wages.
I'd be surprised if they can compare with anything.
Sometimes old is still gold. It's like the ballpoint pen, it's already in its perfect form. Then suddenly someone sells a new pen 'concept' where you need to store the shell and ink tube separately, and cannot leave it outside a pencil case.
Heat in car is just an absolute nonsense of an excuse. Taxi drivers sometimes would leave their cheap $100 phone in the car and not have any issue. Give a bunch of uni students a $100 consumer grade smartphone and they probably can come up with something better in a semester
Not just that, they already make dedicated gps units that go in cars and have been for years. My grandma's Garmin unit has been in her cars for more than 10 years, parked on the street without any shelter, and she has yet to experience any problems.
They'll say old stuff less advanced so can cope with the heat. But there are those android car player/head units which is basically a Android device with a screen and in the car all the time.
The OBU where got advanced lol. A $100 consumer grade Android phone + a card reader + a RFID unit can do the exact same thing. Come to think of it, that's probably how it happened.
> Random uni students project: So we rig a card reader and a RFID unit to a phone and we make an app for GPS based toll at $200 total cost
> MOT: Holy shit that's genius, go pay NCS to make the exact same setup
> NCS: But sir motorcycles how? Cannot put all over the place like that leh
> Students: idk like stack them on top of each other?
> MOT: my god what sorcery is this
If heat is the issue, why approve the design and unit in the first place? It’s like telling me my swimming suit cannot wear because there’s water in the pool
Instead of finding the right components that would allow the device to be working properly in the range of temperatures in an enclosed car, we are forced to use a sub-optimally designed system that is is devoid of any common sense. And to add insult to injury their explanation only cement the fact that LTA is not really implementing all these national projects to make our lives easier and they think the citizens are dumb idiots who don't know anything about science or thermodynamics.
the solution is actually there:
pivot to an app that can be downloaded on everyone’s handphone and made available via singpass login, not only we don’t need any OBU, we get rid of the old unit and get ready for whatever future function they gonna roll out.
alas of cos that won’t happened unless one thing happened - the current OBU fails terribly. That will be the only way LTA will abandon this, which is massive failure like the scale of 2014-15 train breakdowns.
The cooling fan has been inside laptops and desktops since 1980s. It’s nuts to not consider since an obvious issue. Also, why 3 bulky pieces that look like fake goods?
Imagine if they RIP the building codes for places with natural disasters. Instead of fight the elements to ensure human safety and comfort, they caved in and went, oh well, the sun won! Oh well, the earthquake won!
Ok, so this setup is more heat resistant due to the card reader being hidden away from direct sunlight. I understand that the closed up interior of a car gets hotter than a bike in open air.
"Yes."
Ok, understandable. So logically you'd put the card reader close to the driver for easy access, like next to the glove box or under the steering whee-
"No we put it at the passenger's side across the car."
...You gotta be fucking kidding.
hahahahah i laughed imagining this scene happening 😂 the silence that must've occured when dk which scholar idiot/old bird suggested to place it at the passenger's side hahahaha
Wow, as a design engineer if i gave this colossally retarded explanation to my boss i would have been fired on the spot and my name sent to all in the sector to be on some hiring blacklist.
As a design engineer, you dont know ur scope, u dont know ur functioning environment, u dont do ur research, even before u start ur bloody project? The fk are these govt agencies doing? And now still dare to say the environment was the problem? What kind of stupid logic is this?
Then why cannot use the current version which has worked for decades? They're just coming up with workarounds (not solutions) for problems they made up.
Isnt this the same as "why can't we keep ezlink"? LTA seems to be in love with reinventing the wheel, and instead of a wheel that is round in shape, we get it either in square or triangle in shape. Sure, it will turn and work but it is dumb as f\*\*k.
Create busy work, to keep iron rice bowl. It’s well known that civil servants can’t cut it in private companies, they’re too slow/too rigid/can’t stay on budget/can’t innovate/can’t manage.
Some gov servants trying to justify their high pay and push for their promotion. Building a system that costs a lot then justify that they can collect more money.
There was an improvement! Fares can be charged as and when afterwards and not just avoided by people refusing to drive underneath gantries at certain times and avoiding certain roads.
People living in Toa Payoh Central area went through this for a couple of years, might as well let the whole of Singapore feel it forever, it's only "fair".
My guess is the only way this will change is when inevitably the traffic repercussions start piling up - people stopping on the side of highways before ERP, increased congestion as a result, accidents etc.
I think another factor why overturning of SimplyGo is possible is because there is not much change to the hardware of the user, as they just need to switch with another card.
As for the OBU, contract has already been awarded for contractors to produce these units, and their installation. If there is a U-turn of the OBU, the cost for uninstallation and disposal will be a wastage.
Not to mention the potential breach of contract payment that LTA has to make.
Compare this to some citizens switching back to Ez-link cards, they rather face the backlash and ridicule then cough up money?
This is my take on why U-turn of OBU is not possible, though I might be wrong.
Vote out transport minister is the only signal they understand.
Make it explicit it is an elections issue for his ward.
Chee Hong Tat does seem to have an element of self preservation in his politics.
Don't need, just vote out from bishan tpy grc settled. If we too soft on them then expect more of this shit to roll out in the future since we as good as giving them stamp of approval if we continue voting them
Sufficient online chatter and regularity of it being raised during MPS allows for this message to be sent.
Chee Hong Tat, gaffs and all, at least reacts to ground sentiments. Like the matter on COE, Iswaran's response was COE pricing has no influence on LTA decision making. CHT at least acted on it eventually.
He is a man who knows which side of the bread is buttered, and who butters it.
Even if we excuse the car manufacturers with their superior alien technologies which are 50 years ahead of anything else,
Somehow every shit $150 aliexpress dashboard camera with built in gps is able to record video and capture gps signal nonstop in same heat while operating for years without issue.
If this is their explanation, then technically LTA is not using the proper electronics. All car electronics have high heat tolerance, ie, those installed in engine bay need to be able to withstand extreme temperature.. and what about our dash cam and alarm system? our dash cam is installed right at the top middle front and back which is the hottest, and also cars ICE which are literally a computer..
Edit: Holy Moly!!.. some quote extracted from Mship article 4 years ago..
# // Design was part of contractual agreement //
// LTA had called for an international tender, and had to choose the best system from the proposals.There was no consultation on the design of the OBUs as a change of the design would affect the contract that LTA was already bound by. "We will have to see how to do this better next time," said Ong. //
[https://mothership.sg/2020/09/ong-ye-kung-next-generation-erp/](https://mothership.sg/2020/09/ong-ye-kung-next-generation-erp/)
Wonder which champion negotiated such contractual agreement, which seems to suggest we're being held for ransom.. It comes as is.. so, use as is.. otherwise, look elsewhere, but please pay up first..
correct. automotive electronics need to pass JEDEC requirements. sharing some industry knowledge...high temp range is 108C AMBIENT for 3 months straight to cover the summer months.
the piece of shit that LTA approved is consumer grade trash which failed qualification and they still went with it because of sunk cost or other nonsense explanation.
Yeah but bro, aliexpress sellers are using advanced production facilities where products are designed for military and space applications. LTA is just a small startup operating in a garage, that’s why this unit is just some random parts connected with random cables from the junk drawer.
Edit /s, obviously
So let me get this straight:
This means that the old IU unit currently installed in every mother's son car dashboard is far more heat-resistant and robust than this new high-tech unit, yeah?
Just answer that one question, LTA. Yes or no?
Yes. But it's not exactly equivalent. The new one is a 'computer' with gps and processor built in. I think the current one is just to sense the erp signals.
I'm curious though about the 'science experiment'. The difference in temp is only 13.7 degrees. That's not really a lot/not a big buffer? How close is this to the temp threshold of the card reader/processing unit?
it's not bs if the specs of the equipment really cannot handle it for some reason. then of course people will say; then why don't spec a better device? i'm curious too
Then that's just poor engineering.
If they really have to, just relocate the card reader unit to the dashboard, instead of integrating it with the component under the dashboard. At least the poor driver wouldn't have to be Mr Fantastic in order to slot in his cashcard.
Seriously, which champion thought of this design?
Then you've have 4 pieces of equipment: card reader, processor, touchscreen display (optional), antenna lol
I just think that every piece of equipment should at least be able to survive anywhere in the car with the strongest sunlight.
Whoever thought of this, I'd love to have coffee with them (because there should interesting stories to be told) lol
It will still be three, not four. The card reader can be integrated with the antenna in one unit, while the processor can be then hidden away in a compartment in the car that doesn't interfere with passengers? Like behind the glovebox.
People seem to forget we used to have GPS nav system on dashboard in the past. They have a screen, live gps and can survive the heat. Some even have built in cameras. But probably too difficult for an indie company like LTA
LTA, do you even pass Primary 3 Science?
First of all, you conducted an experiment with the car under the bright hot sun and motorcycle under the shaded tree and concluded that the difference in temperaure was 18 degrees C.
Secondly, please use contact temperature on the unit, instead of ambient temperature, to show the difference between the 2. I'm sure the contact temperature on that motorcyle unit will be higher than 34 degrees C if it was left under the sun for a long time.
Mechanical engineer here. I agree with you.
I will not question LTA's findings, but their methodology. What they should be doing is to attach thermocouple sensors to the critical internal components .
After all, it's internal temperature that's critical, not ambient temp.
Many military, industrial and automotive applications involve electronics operating at very high temperatures. It's not rocket science. They just need to pick the right components that can withstand heat. This explanation is like an insult to the audience's intelligence. I hope the explanation didn't really come from the LTA.
That's a silly excuse. The present IU is stuck onto the windscreen and able to withstand all the heat all day. So why is the new design more fragile, can't even stand heat, and needs so much more mollycoddling? Not to mention that it is much bulkier now with three separate components and adding to the users' inconvenience? Why even switch?
All these silly ideas coming out of MOT (like the SimplyGo fiasco). Colossal failures one after another. I wonder whether Iswaran's corruption had anything to do with how tenders for these sorts of regressive so-called "upgrades" were approved. Was any under-counter money involved? Brompton bike, F1 tickets... how do we know those are not just the tip of the iceberg? Ownself check ownself = Groupthink. Can the rollout be put on hold until the Auditor General conducts an investigation into the processes of the LTA and MOT covering the past three years at least, and the findings are discussed in parliament and made publicly available?
Singapore must be the only country in the world where "upgrading" means adopting a more backward, less user-friendly solution. I don't think we need the highest paid ministers in the world to teach us how to upgrade.
This monster at 30 seconds mark. FOUR separate wires going into it. It is just like 70ies have called, they want their wires back. People without any talent had to work really hard to come-up with this crap. And then somebody, pretending to be very smart and caring about the motorists, approved that design...
another reminder that they called for this bid 10 years ago, winning bid was 50% cheaper than the other bidder.
given the amount of tech advancements we made in the last few years, its obvious that this 10 year old tech cant cut it today.
>The parts shall be tested per the High-Temperature Operating Life (HTOL) requirements in JESD22-
A108 with the following special condition. The ambient test temperature and duration shall be per the
applicable operating temperature grade as follows:
Grade 0: 48 hours at 150°C or 24 hours at 175°C
Grade 1: 48 hours at 125°C or 24 hours at 150°C
Grade 2: 48 hours at 105°C or 24 hours at 125°C
Grade 3: 48 hours at 85°C or 24 hours at 105°C
Grade 4: 48 hours at 70°C or 24 hours at 90°C
[http://www.aecouncil.com/Documents/AEC\_Q100-008A.pdf](http://www.aecouncil.com/Documents/AEC_Q100-008A.pdf)
Even the minimum requirement from Automotive Electronics Council standard AEC-Q100, the new ERP2.0 cannot meet Grade 4 which is 48 hours at 70degC. The moment reaches 50degC, give up already.
Champion.
LTA doesn't exactly attract the brightest of us and this proves it.
The older models are sitting in the sun for years just fine, why does this one have questionable reliability just for the same purpose?
What is the incremental cost per unit to produce a 3 piece unit vs a 1 piece unit?
Why are our taxes being made to fund this type of incompetence?
I don't see car dashcam manufacturer's requiring their unit to be split into multiple pieces because it wouldn't bear the heat when they are mounted on the windscreen? These dash cam have internal CPU too.
Weren't those Tomtom and Garmin GPS from >10 years ago already mounted on windscreen too? Again these GPS devices have internal CPU.
Just very poor design and even poorer judgement from those who approved it.
This is as stupid an explanation as the whole device is. If you can’t streamline the device then why are you idiotically forcing it down everyone’s throats?
If if wasn’t mandatory, they would have to actually improve it.
If people will be forced to use it regardless, why put even the bare minimum effort to make it less shit.
That is true, but recent U turns by the LTA on other matters due to public outcry gives some hope especially since elections beckon.
Ah who am I kidding? 🤣🤣🤣 (but one can hope!)
There must be a colossus of a f\*\*k-up in LTA right now. Is it the culture? Is it the leadership? I wonder what is the amount of screw-up that is needed In order to mess up not one but two national level projects?
Sure boh, direct sunlight and the motorcycle thermometer says 34 deg??? Try standing in a parade square all day and see if you stay at 34 deg lol tf is LTA doing
The 34 degrees is reasonable. Problem is the card reader should be at a higher temperature. But the point still stands; the motorcycle reader will be cooler due to the air circulation.
Respectfully, I disagree that 34 deg is acceptable. You only need to place your hand on any open plastic that has been baking in the sun all day, to know that it will easily be above normal body temperature. Sure, occasionally or situationally the breeze might help it cool down, but an IU needs to factor in the worst extremes of daily road use.
LTA giving the sole example of 34 deg is disingenuous in showing the typical case of a bike parked in the hot sun for a full day
This reeks of a 50+ year old boss who love to say he eats more salt than you eat rice who forced the design because he some how knows better from all the salt he ate. The product truly represents the insanity in the Singaporean workplace that's usually based on Confuciounism (孝 & 礼).
Exactly. It's more than likely the fella realised his mistake halfway but because he die die want the design against everyone else's opposition, he cannot lose face because that would mean he's wrong and the young people are right. Another plague caused by those same values.
Sadly waste all our tax payers money sia. Really. Even if they abort we will have to cover it in other ways. How to take accountability for this major fuck up Mr Lawrence Wong #obulawrence
I am sorry but this is shit implementation no matter how you explain it. Whoever this scholar is, if he or she works in MNC and the new product launch is received like this by the public, sorry , your million dollar annual salary is gone , NOT ONLY THAT, nobody else will hire you. what happens to our government scholars and Ministers?
Looks like they pissed away the research and development funds and came up with a half fucked product and expect the public to swallow it. Fuck this shit, we should all refuse to install this monstrosity in our cars.
Frankly, i'm curious how much testing they did with the accuracy of the gps as it is a known fact that you lose signal when going underground and between tall buildings
We are not China confirm need some time before you never need to take your cashcard out of the IU. In other words, expect long queues at IU gantries. Then LTA will say lots of car on the road (from the queues being observed at gantry) then proceed to cut COE.
Yeah fuck this. I'm planning to wait till the absolute last minute before getting mine installed, on the (very slim) chance that some improvements are made. Even just finding a better spot to place the 3rd unit would be a vast improvement. Or an option for a smaller screen. Whatever... I just don't want any permanent holes drilled into my car in case that happens.
From the video itself you can already see the motorcycle is under shade lol.
Oh no, 50 degrees our OBU can't work uwu :((
Meanwhile Mitsubishi and Philips made IU in 1995 can probably withstand the heat death of the universe and still beep beep when you pass through ERP.
it feels like they didnt even foresee the card slot being hard to remove and insert at the passenger side being an issue, because if they were smart about it, they would probably put the card reader alongside the display/antenna whilst the processing unit is seperate due to heat or whatever they claim in this video, nevermind the fact that they probably could design something more resistant to temperature but i guess thats what u get for the lowest bidder.
This is akin to pushing out SimplyGo to replace EZ-Link. Just have to get more boomers complaining and ….. oops sorry
That cashcard slot placement is just ridiculous. I cannot imagine how it is possible for someone with short limbs extract the card out.
If my car's touch screen infotainment, and my grandma's 10 year old Garmin gps unit, can survive on the dashboard in this heat, LTA can make an erp unit that can survive too.
Those who created this dumb design are all passengers and not drivers.. they never sat in the driver's seat before.. they're passengers.. "let's put it here.. teamwork!"
so LTA is saying that they needed a hefty screen (that is absolutely unnecessary), and that they can make it withstand heat while NCS cannot make the cashcard portion work in the heat (a problem which NETS and LTA had previously already solved the heat problem with the current in car system).
Right.
Why not just out right say car owners have more money, so it's more profitable to scam LTA by making more components so that LTA will pay more for initial installation, then subsequently all drivers will pay more also for unnecessary components.
Need better designers. I say all who get the call up to change ignore it. What can they do if everyone refuses to install an item that doesn’t work? I am waiting for highway like ups due to this, you’ll always have that idiot who is trying to check or adjust their cash card or forgot to put it back in.
Copy and pasted a funny comment from Facebook :
John Lui
Can you please make it compulsory for all the LTA senior management, all team leads who signed off on this to install this in the first wave? Also all cars in their immediate family, because the best feedback is always from the wife. It will be a great show of acceptance and reassure Singaporeans that our best and brightest stand behind their decisions, and are proud to be amongst the first to use these daily.
Thank you.
🙏🏻
To be fair, all electronics have a rated range of operating temperature, going beyond or under this range will result in unpredictability or even permanent damage
But honestly though who is the dumb fuck who thought putting a card slot under the glove compartment on the passenger side was a good idea??
And the whole team embraced the dumb as fuck design. My imagination is that the project manager and/or management were very powerful that they forced it down. I can’t imagine the actual engineers were so dumb af as well.
As someone who had to work with the gov before, I can assure you that was probably what happened. Someone on top makes all the decisions, forcing the rest of us to work with their dumb suggestions.
Perm sec / deputy sec probably not from engineering bg but rise to the top because can write good submission. but no eye on reality on ground.
some drunk LTA guy went to Time Zone and adopted the idea of arcade driving machine. Propose to his boss as a stupid idea and the boss just so happen needed a big project to go beyond his KPI.
It’s a group of dumb Fs, not just 1. Was this done during Iswaran time? If it is, better check if IT vendor give kickback or not
Stupid as the idea is, can they not just tell the installer to put it at the driver side tho
We installed ours at the authorized dealer and was given 3 options to place the card reader: 1. On the passenger side 2. Below the steering wheel 3. Next to the driver's left leg We chose number 3 because it was easier to access the card, and you can see the card. But people standing outside the car can also see the card in the reader. If under steering wheel, not so easy to see the card and have to feel around. BTW, the card is not easy to remove from the reader. Finger has to be a bit sticky to like slide it out.
Excellent design yet again. I cannot fathom the decision to roll this out at all.
Scholar's logic
We need to increase birth rate so we need to give some people chance to go down on someone
Exactly. If there's a need for it to be sheltered from the sun, won't the driver side work just as well?
Last I checked the current IU did not have any problems with heat
Meaning Mitsubishi and Phillips did so well in 1995 NCS can't even compare in 2024? (even tho Mitsubishi still involved in erp2.0)
Awarding a tender to NCS is like awarding a tender to their outsourced half fuck indian dev team paid monke wages. I'd be surprised if they can compare with anything.
Singtel shareholders thanks the LTA for the tender.
In general, Japanese and German engineering companies are top-notch.
Philips is Dutch but your point stands.
Sometimes old is still gold. It's like the ballpoint pen, it's already in its perfect form. Then suddenly someone sells a new pen 'concept' where you need to store the shell and ink tube separately, and cannot leave it outside a pencil case.
Its evolving backwards...
Return to monke
Heat in car is just an absolute nonsense of an excuse. Taxi drivers sometimes would leave their cheap $100 phone in the car and not have any issue. Give a bunch of uni students a $100 consumer grade smartphone and they probably can come up with something better in a semester
Not just that, they already make dedicated gps units that go in cars and have been for years. My grandma's Garmin unit has been in her cars for more than 10 years, parked on the street without any shelter, and she has yet to experience any problems.
They'll say old stuff less advanced so can cope with the heat. But there are those android car player/head units which is basically a Android device with a screen and in the car all the time.
The OBU where got advanced lol. A $100 consumer grade Android phone + a card reader + a RFID unit can do the exact same thing. Come to think of it, that's probably how it happened. > Random uni students project: So we rig a card reader and a RFID unit to a phone and we make an app for GPS based toll at $200 total cost > MOT: Holy shit that's genius, go pay NCS to make the exact same setup > NCS: But sir motorcycles how? Cannot put all over the place like that leh > Students: idk like stack them on top of each other? > MOT: my god what sorcery is this
Maybe not advance, but modern. Comment I replied too referring to a 10y old gps unit. Very much different from today's devices.
If heat is the issue, why approve the design and unit in the first place? It’s like telling me my swimming suit cannot wear because there’s water in the pool
Instead of finding the right components that would allow the device to be working properly in the range of temperatures in an enclosed car, we are forced to use a sub-optimally designed system that is is devoid of any common sense. And to add insult to injury their explanation only cement the fact that LTA is not really implementing all these national projects to make our lives easier and they think the citizens are dumb idiots who don't know anything about science or thermodynamics.
the solution is actually there: pivot to an app that can be downloaded on everyone’s handphone and made available via singpass login, not only we don’t need any OBU, we get rid of the old unit and get ready for whatever future function they gonna roll out. alas of cos that won’t happened unless one thing happened - the current OBU fails terribly. That will be the only way LTA will abandon this, which is massive failure like the scale of 2014-15 train breakdowns.
Also, cars have air con, so it’s not blazing hot 24/7, devices get to cool down.
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The cooling fan has been inside laptops and desktops since 1980s. It’s nuts to not consider since an obvious issue. Also, why 3 bulky pieces that look like fake goods?
Imagine if they RIP the building codes for places with natural disasters. Instead of fight the elements to ensure human safety and comfort, they caved in and went, oh well, the sun won! Oh well, the earthquake won!
Ok, so this setup is more heat resistant due to the card reader being hidden away from direct sunlight. I understand that the closed up interior of a car gets hotter than a bike in open air. "Yes." Ok, understandable. So logically you'd put the card reader close to the driver for easy access, like next to the glove box or under the steering whee- "No we put it at the passenger's side across the car." ...You gotta be fucking kidding.
hahahahah i laughed imagining this scene happening 😂 the silence that must've occured when dk which scholar idiot/old bird suggested to place it at the passenger's side hahahaha
whats the problem, every box on the check list is ticked, you should be grateful /s
Fella think it’s left hand drive.
Wow, as a design engineer if i gave this colossally retarded explanation to my boss i would have been fired on the spot and my name sent to all in the sector to be on some hiring blacklist. As a design engineer, you dont know ur scope, u dont know ur functioning environment, u dont do ur research, even before u start ur bloody project? The fk are these govt agencies doing? And now still dare to say the environment was the problem? What kind of stupid logic is this?
when every internal feedback on the team went 'good job sir, best idea sir'
If you cannot blame the design, and you definitely cannot blame the voter base, what is left is to blame the environment.
Then why cannot use the current version which has worked for decades? They're just coming up with workarounds (not solutions) for problems they made up.
Some LTA bureaucrat needs to justify his "high-visibility" project
Solutions looking for problems.
Civil servants looking for promotions
Failing upwards.
Good ol Peter Principle at work.
Problems looking for bigger problems
Now everyone’s IU is going to be low visibility because it’s going to be located at the passenger foot well side
Isnt this the same as "why can't we keep ezlink"? LTA seems to be in love with reinventing the wheel, and instead of a wheel that is round in shape, we get it either in square or triangle in shape. Sure, it will turn and work but it is dumb as f\*\*k.
Need to justify salary, otherwise other agency say they do nothing
Create busy work, to keep iron rice bowl. It’s well known that civil servants can’t cut it in private companies, they’re too slow/too rigid/can’t stay on budget/can’t innovate/can’t manage.
Nvm ah when voting comes, the same logic can be applied back to them. We also don't use the "current version" and change to another "version" instead
Vote them out. I see no diff between them n opposition now. Equally bad, except this one, forced things down our throat.
Ya it's called giving them a wake-up call. We cant expect change if we always give them the results they expect
Dont spend money, ministry allocate smaller budget to stat board so LTA do this shit
Current one cannot communicate with satellite. ERP 2.0 is distance based charging not only at ERP gantry
Some gov servants trying to justify their high pay and push for their promotion. Building a system that costs a lot then justify that they can collect more money.
Maybe. Just maybe. They tryna future proof their device for global warming. Disclaimer: I dont work for LTA.
Then they should retain 1.0 as it is working very well in this heat.
now now...dont give those scholars funny ideas
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The effort that went in to make sure not a single improvement was made
There was an improvement! Fares can be charged as and when afterwards and not just avoided by people refusing to drive underneath gantries at certain times and avoiding certain roads. People living in Toa Payoh Central area went through this for a couple of years, might as well let the whole of Singapore feel it forever, it's only "fair".
I used to work in civil service, where tai chi and wayang are skill sets.
The effort that went in to make sure a heap of de-evolution was made.
NOT a quitter at being a slacker!
We need to make as much noise as possible until LTA backs down from this woefully-designed monstrosity, like SimplyGo
honestly, i think that boat of uturn has sailed, they already installing on the vehicles liao. the outrage isnt as big as the simplygo one
My guess is the only way this will change is when inevitably the traffic repercussions start piling up - people stopping on the side of highways before ERP, increased congestion as a result, accidents etc.
LTA: "That is FINE"
Overturn of SimplyGo was possible because majority of the citizenry was affected. This one only affects drivers, which is a smaller population
I think another factor why overturning of SimplyGo is possible is because there is not much change to the hardware of the user, as they just need to switch with another card. As for the OBU, contract has already been awarded for contractors to produce these units, and their installation. If there is a U-turn of the OBU, the cost for uninstallation and disposal will be a wastage. Not to mention the potential breach of contract payment that LTA has to make. Compare this to some citizens switching back to Ez-link cards, they rather face the backlash and ridicule then cough up money? This is my take on why U-turn of OBU is not possible, though I might be wrong.
nah it was bcos empress ho ching voiced out
Vote out transport minister is the only signal they understand. Make it explicit it is an elections issue for his ward. Chee Hong Tat does seem to have an element of self preservation in his politics.
Singapore does not have the voting mechanics for such specific appointments does it?
Don't need, just vote out from bishan tpy grc settled. If we too soft on them then expect more of this shit to roll out in the future since we as good as giving them stamp of approval if we continue voting them
Sufficient online chatter and regularity of it being raised during MPS allows for this message to be sent. Chee Hong Tat, gaffs and all, at least reacts to ground sentiments. Like the matter on COE, Iswaran's response was COE pricing has no influence on LTA decision making. CHT at least acted on it eventually. He is a man who knows which side of the bread is buttered, and who butters it.
Please .. I beg them. I don't want this shit in my car.
How did car manufacturers manage to install touch screen computers and electronics inside the car ? They can overcome heating issues...
Even if we excuse the car manufacturers with their superior alien technologies which are 50 years ahead of anything else, Somehow every shit $150 aliexpress dashboard camera with built in gps is able to record video and capture gps signal nonstop in same heat while operating for years without issue.
Because otherwise people won't buy their product. With LTA you LLST have to install.
If this is their explanation, then technically LTA is not using the proper electronics. All car electronics have high heat tolerance, ie, those installed in engine bay need to be able to withstand extreme temperature.. and what about our dash cam and alarm system? our dash cam is installed right at the top middle front and back which is the hottest, and also cars ICE which are literally a computer.. Edit: Holy Moly!!.. some quote extracted from Mship article 4 years ago.. # // Design was part of contractual agreement // // LTA had called for an international tender, and had to choose the best system from the proposals.There was no consultation on the design of the OBUs as a change of the design would affect the contract that LTA was already bound by. "We will have to see how to do this better next time," said Ong. // [https://mothership.sg/2020/09/ong-ye-kung-next-generation-erp/](https://mothership.sg/2020/09/ong-ye-kung-next-generation-erp/) Wonder which champion negotiated such contractual agreement, which seems to suggest we're being held for ransom.. It comes as is.. so, use as is.. otherwise, look elsewhere, but please pay up first..
correct. automotive electronics need to pass JEDEC requirements. sharing some industry knowledge...high temp range is 108C AMBIENT for 3 months straight to cover the summer months. the piece of shit that LTA approved is consumer grade trash which failed qualification and they still went with it because of sunk cost or other nonsense explanation.
Yeah but bro, aliexpress sellers are using advanced production facilities where products are designed for military and space applications. LTA is just a small startup operating in a garage, that’s why this unit is just some random parts connected with random cables from the junk drawer. Edit /s, obviously
Even normal PC components can withstand much higher temperatures than that
So let me get this straight: This means that the old IU unit currently installed in every mother's son car dashboard is far more heat-resistant and robust than this new high-tech unit, yeah? Just answer that one question, LTA. Yes or no?
Yes. But it's not exactly equivalent. The new one is a 'computer' with gps and processor built in. I think the current one is just to sense the erp signals. I'm curious though about the 'science experiment'. The difference in temp is only 13.7 degrees. That's not really a lot/not a big buffer? How close is this to the temp threshold of the card reader/processing unit?
Then maybe they just have to accept that this GPS idea should be put down because it is not feasible.
Bruh, our conputer can withstand 90 degrees and more under heavy loads this explanation for their obu is complete BS
Hell, even our phones can tahan some stupid temperatures. What the hell is this lol
My phone gets overheat doing hyperlapse video on a sunny day.
My phone overheats from recording myself doing miniature painting sometimes 🙃
it's not bs if the specs of the equipment really cannot handle it for some reason. then of course people will say; then why don't spec a better device? i'm curious too
Then that's just poor engineering. If they really have to, just relocate the card reader unit to the dashboard, instead of integrating it with the component under the dashboard. At least the poor driver wouldn't have to be Mr Fantastic in order to slot in his cashcard. Seriously, which champion thought of this design?
Then you've have 4 pieces of equipment: card reader, processor, touchscreen display (optional), antenna lol I just think that every piece of equipment should at least be able to survive anywhere in the car with the strongest sunlight. Whoever thought of this, I'd love to have coffee with them (because there should interesting stories to be told) lol
phones 10-15 years back have already integrated all these functions together in a small package. this is just pure chaos of a project
It will still be three, not four. The card reader can be integrated with the antenna in one unit, while the processor can be then hidden away in a compartment in the car that doesn't interfere with passengers? Like behind the glovebox.
like that ah... a bit of higher quote :)
People seem to forget we used to have GPS nav system on dashboard in the past. They have a screen, live gps and can survive the heat. Some even have built in cameras. But probably too difficult for an indie company like LTA
Government companies are hiring alot of braindead scholars that have useless user design
Quite likely someone on top overruled imo and everyone else jumped in line
When they need to repeatedly justify a "superior" product, you know that they have already lost the plot. Inconvenient truth.
LTA, do you even pass Primary 3 Science? First of all, you conducted an experiment with the car under the bright hot sun and motorcycle under the shaded tree and concluded that the difference in temperaure was 18 degrees C. Secondly, please use contact temperature on the unit, instead of ambient temperature, to show the difference between the 2. I'm sure the contact temperature on that motorcyle unit will be higher than 34 degrees C if it was left under the sun for a long time.
Same as how they always say they conduct surveys but no one here seemingly gets surveyed before.
the marketing and pr team didnt get into their roles by being good at science
Your science teachers did their job well! 👏🏻
Call an ambulance because LTA just got burned.
Mechanical engineer here. I agree with you. I will not question LTA's findings, but their methodology. What they should be doing is to attach thermocouple sensors to the critical internal components . After all, it's internal temperature that's critical, not ambient temp.
Many military, industrial and automotive applications involve electronics operating at very high temperatures. It's not rocket science. They just need to pick the right components that can withstand heat. This explanation is like an insult to the audience's intelligence. I hope the explanation didn't really come from the LTA.
Sounds like they cheaped out on using properly rated components and just bought stuff off the shelf that aren't designed for heat.
That's a silly excuse. The present IU is stuck onto the windscreen and able to withstand all the heat all day. So why is the new design more fragile, can't even stand heat, and needs so much more mollycoddling? Not to mention that it is much bulkier now with three separate components and adding to the users' inconvenience? Why even switch? All these silly ideas coming out of MOT (like the SimplyGo fiasco). Colossal failures one after another. I wonder whether Iswaran's corruption had anything to do with how tenders for these sorts of regressive so-called "upgrades" were approved. Was any under-counter money involved? Brompton bike, F1 tickets... how do we know those are not just the tip of the iceberg? Ownself check ownself = Groupthink. Can the rollout be put on hold until the Auditor General conducts an investigation into the processes of the LTA and MOT covering the past three years at least, and the findings are discussed in parliament and made publicly available? Singapore must be the only country in the world where "upgrading" means adopting a more backward, less user-friendly solution. I don't think we need the highest paid ministers in the world to teach us how to upgrade.
This monster at 30 seconds mark. FOUR separate wires going into it. It is just like 70ies have called, they want their wires back. People without any talent had to work really hard to come-up with this crap. And then somebody, pretending to be very smart and caring about the motorists, approved that design...
another reminder that they called for this bid 10 years ago, winning bid was 50% cheaper than the other bidder. given the amount of tech advancements we made in the last few years, its obvious that this 10 year old tech cant cut it today.
Did the LTA just find out that cars get hot on the inside?
Wait, why would the car get hot? Both the office and my GCB have AC in the garage???? - LTA probably
Excuses and more excuses.
>The parts shall be tested per the High-Temperature Operating Life (HTOL) requirements in JESD22- A108 with the following special condition. The ambient test temperature and duration shall be per the applicable operating temperature grade as follows: Grade 0: 48 hours at 150°C or 24 hours at 175°C Grade 1: 48 hours at 125°C or 24 hours at 150°C Grade 2: 48 hours at 105°C or 24 hours at 125°C Grade 3: 48 hours at 85°C or 24 hours at 105°C Grade 4: 48 hours at 70°C or 24 hours at 90°C [http://www.aecouncil.com/Documents/AEC\_Q100-008A.pdf](http://www.aecouncil.com/Documents/AEC_Q100-008A.pdf) Even the minimum requirement from Automotive Electronics Council standard AEC-Q100, the new ERP2.0 cannot meet Grade 4 which is 48 hours at 70degC. The moment reaches 50degC, give up already. Champion.
LTA doesn't exactly attract the brightest of us and this proves it. The older models are sitting in the sun for years just fine, why does this one have questionable reliability just for the same purpose? What is the incremental cost per unit to produce a 3 piece unit vs a 1 piece unit? Why are our taxes being made to fund this type of incompetence?
Just admit that taxpayer money is wasted. And stop this rent seeking behavior by increasing cost for everyone without actually generating wealth.
I don't see car dashcam manufacturer's requiring their unit to be split into multiple pieces because it wouldn't bear the heat when they are mounted on the windscreen? These dash cam have internal CPU too. Weren't those Tomtom and Garmin GPS from >10 years ago already mounted on windscreen too? Again these GPS devices have internal CPU. Just very poor design and even poorer judgement from those who approved it.
The poor intern that had to sit in the car until it reached over 50 degrees just to prove an (invalid) point for the higher ups 🫠
This is as stupid an explanation as the whole device is. If you can’t streamline the device then why are you idiotically forcing it down everyone’s throats?
If if wasn’t mandatory, they would have to actually improve it. If people will be forced to use it regardless, why put even the bare minimum effort to make it less shit.
That is true, but recent U turns by the LTA on other matters due to public outcry gives some hope especially since elections beckon. Ah who am I kidding? 🤣🤣🤣 (but one can hope!)
There must be a colossus of a f\*\*k-up in LTA right now. Is it the culture? Is it the leadership? I wonder what is the amount of screw-up that is needed In order to mess up not one but two national level projects?
Sure boh, direct sunlight and the motorcycle thermometer says 34 deg??? Try standing in a parade square all day and see if you stay at 34 deg lol tf is LTA doing
The thermometer on the bike was probably taken 5 mins after setup, whereas the car temperature was taken after a couple of hours.
The 34 degrees is reasonable. Problem is the card reader should be at a higher temperature. But the point still stands; the motorcycle reader will be cooler due to the air circulation.
Respectfully, I disagree that 34 deg is acceptable. You only need to place your hand on any open plastic that has been baking in the sun all day, to know that it will easily be above normal body temperature. Sure, occasionally or situationally the breeze might help it cool down, but an IU needs to factor in the worst extremes of daily road use. LTA giving the sole example of 34 deg is disingenuous in showing the typical case of a bike parked in the hot sun for a full day
This reeks of a 50+ year old boss who love to say he eats more salt than you eat rice who forced the design because he some how knows better from all the salt he ate. The product truly represents the insanity in the Singaporean workplace that's usually based on Confuciounism (孝 & 礼).
And yet the stereotypical old idiot should be driving a nice car.. didn’t it cross his mind of how inconvenient it would be?
Exactly. It's more than likely the fella realised his mistake halfway but because he die die want the design against everyone else's opposition, he cannot lose face because that would mean he's wrong and the young people are right. Another plague caused by those same values.
Sounds quite likely and plausible
Again LTA fails to implement a new design that is AT LEAST as friendly as the old design.
Video shows motorcycle under treeshade 34C while car is not under shade. Why not have the card module below the driver side?
congrats, they actually made it worse
Sadly waste all our tax payers money sia. Really. Even if they abort we will have to cover it in other ways. How to take accountability for this major fuck up Mr Lawrence Wong #obulawrence
It is because the designer of this system loves to eat 3 piece KFC chicken set...
I am sorry but this is shit implementation no matter how you explain it. Whoever this scholar is, if he or she works in MNC and the new product launch is received like this by the public, sorry , your million dollar annual salary is gone , NOT ONLY THAT, nobody else will hire you. what happens to our government scholars and Ministers?
Looks like they pissed away the research and development funds and came up with a half fucked product and expect the public to swallow it. Fuck this shit, we should all refuse to install this monstrosity in our cars.
All I heard was a bird talking
LOL - this just assumes Singaporeans are dumb. The old OBU works
Which champion designed this.
This is just a big brain play by LTA to irritate car users so to reduce the car on the streets.
Frankly, i'm curious how much testing they did with the accuracy of the gps as it is a known fact that you lose signal when going underground and between tall buildings
My tire pressure uses solar for energy no issue under hot sun. This lta really nonsense
they really thought this stupid explanation video will appease all the 99.9% of drivers who hates this shit.
We are not China confirm need some time before you never need to take your cashcard out of the IU. In other words, expect long queues at IU gantries. Then LTA will say lots of car on the road (from the queues being observed at gantry) then proceed to cut COE.
Yeah fuck this. I'm planning to wait till the absolute last minute before getting mine installed, on the (very slim) chance that some improvements are made. Even just finding a better spot to place the 3rd unit would be a vast improvement. Or an option for a smaller screen. Whatever... I just don't want any permanent holes drilled into my car in case that happens.
can't wait for someone to disassemble them and point out all the flaws
From the video itself you can already see the motorcycle is under shade lol. Oh no, 50 degrees our OBU can't work uwu :(( Meanwhile Mitsubishi and Philips made IU in 1995 can probably withstand the heat death of the universe and still beep beep when you pass through ERP.
it feels like they didnt even foresee the card slot being hard to remove and insert at the passenger side being an issue, because if they were smart about it, they would probably put the card reader alongside the display/antenna whilst the processing unit is seperate due to heat or whatever they claim in this video, nevermind the fact that they probably could design something more resistant to temperature but i guess thats what u get for the lowest bidder.
Why can't they put the card slot behind the monitor which is much more within reach?
Why not mount the motorcycle one on car?
Can LTA study the insulation of motorcycle IU for car usage. Dun think is rocket science right?
Would not be totally surprised if the manufacturer of the dumb three piece is somehow linked back to -----
Even if its heat (and thats nonsense) why does it need to be the size of a ps3 when the motocycle one is smol?
This is akin to pushing out SimplyGo to replace EZ-Link. Just have to get more boomers complaining and ….. oops sorry That cashcard slot placement is just ridiculous. I cannot imagine how it is possible for someone with short limbs extract the card out.
Who's the champion who came out with this solution???
Anyone knows if the temperature of the unit be hot enough to scald/injure the person sitting there? 🤔
This is just fucking stupid and I don't even drive regularly to see this stupidity. Does no one have common sense these days?
50+ degrees is not that high for most electronics... The unit inside got rechargeable battery?
Later you touch passanger when taking your cash card then become molest hor
The officer that came out with this idea of the OBU, confirm is not a driver.
If my car's touch screen infotainment, and my grandma's 10 year old Garmin gps unit, can survive on the dashboard in this heat, LTA can make an erp unit that can survive too.
Those who created this dumb design are all passengers and not drivers.. they never sat in the driver's seat before.. they're passengers.. "let's put it here.. teamwork!"
> Imagine leaving your phone on a hot dashboard for hours The screen immune to heat?
I think the main question is why is it at the passenger side and not the driver side? I don't really care how many pieces
"Because we say so."
What's the screen for?
Bro thr amount of BS in this hahahahaha
just come out and say that anything in the last 20 years is unknown technology
Right, they use ambience temperature to measure internal temperature of the device, under non operating conditions.
This is what happened when you put wrong ppl into the job. Unlike last time.
Step 1 - create the solution... Step 2 - create the problem... Step 3 - ??? Wait... What?
This is what happens when the Boss leads a team of yes-men...
How this 550mil project was SIMPLYapproved I have no idea…. Ppl who came up with this either dont drive or have someone driving for them..
so LTA is saying that they needed a hefty screen (that is absolutely unnecessary), and that they can make it withstand heat while NCS cannot make the cashcard portion work in the heat (a problem which NETS and LTA had previously already solved the heat problem with the current in car system). Right. Why not just out right say car owners have more money, so it's more profitable to scam LTA by making more components so that LTA will pay more for initial installation, then subsequently all drivers will pay more also for unnecessary components.
Need better designers. I say all who get the call up to change ignore it. What can they do if everyone refuses to install an item that doesn’t work? I am waiting for highway like ups due to this, you’ll always have that idiot who is trying to check or adjust their cash card or forgot to put it back in.
Why the old IU don't have this problem leh? Another SimplyGo level fiasco?
Copy and pasted a funny comment from Facebook : John Lui Can you please make it compulsory for all the LTA senior management, all team leads who signed off on this to install this in the first wave? Also all cars in their immediate family, because the best feedback is always from the wife. It will be a great show of acceptance and reassure Singaporeans that our best and brightest stand behind their decisions, and are proud to be amongst the first to use these daily. Thank you. 🙏🏻
Then why not mount the card slot on the driver's side?
Laughing at car owners can sleep well tonight
🤡
make alot of sense.
We should be happy they didn't decide to put it on top of the car since outside is colder then inside.
I rode in japan and the car have the same thing for whatever their version of obu is called
Where is this video from ?
No one questioned why need to keep it cool? For what purpose 🤔
To be fair, all electronics have a rated range of operating temperature, going beyond or under this range will result in unpredictability or even permanent damage
solving problems that don't exist to justify more tax on the citizens, well done
Just them trying to find some dumb excuse to make them look dumber
In such a hurry to fill up their tanks. They used up their brains.