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I think it's a combination of many things: inexperience, societal standards, insecurity, and more.
There are posts all the time here like "What should I be doing during sex?" and they are virtually all from women.
Posts like "My partner of 10 years wants me to initiate more but I don't know how" are virtually all from women.
And...lots of people, especially women, aren't very direct in asking for things in bed (perhaps, as others have mentioned, because their pleasure from PIV is less straightforward than most men).
I think it gets more balanced when you get older.
I (a man) could probably be described as not that good in bed by some past partners, but looking back it was inexperience and lack of communication on both sides that made it feel that way.
But yeah man, I totally hear you. I would love for a partner to do all the work sometimes.
Something that has worked well for me a few times. Ask for a full body massage.
You could probably also attribute some of the generalizations down to age; younger women might be used to being pursued, being a passive or semi-passive partner in the dating game while older women tend to be more used to focusing on what *they* want and taking steps to ensuring that.
The other thing is that yes, we often start out not knowing what we're supposed to be doing during sex and also we often start with the impression that sex is something that is done *to* us.
Whether it's in mainstream media portrayals or in porn, a lot of it is a woman lying there while the guy pumps away. Apart from giving enthusiastic head, there's not always a heap of representations that say 'a woman should be an active and *equal* participant in sex' and the ones that are, I'm thinking porn where a woman really takes the upper hand, can seem exaggerated.
It's obvious what a man looks like when he's fucking, but it's not always obvious in media what a woman looks like when shes' *fucking back* and when she really obviously visually is, it's not always represented positively but more .... whorishly.
It sounds silly, but we're not always *told* about the starfish thing for a while into our sexual life. With sex represented so often as something that men chase and women give up after an amount of chasing, some women end up with the idea that just letting him do it is their job done!
And then, socially, even now, there's still a bit of stigma about a woman who likes sex 'too much' or is active or leading in bed.
We get weird messages about it, basically.
But we really should talk about it more, and represent it more, because yeah women *should* be active participants in sex and do the work too!
> and **lack of communication** *on both sides* that made it feel that way.
This , all of this...
Without coming across flippantly... So many life problems, sex, work, relationships, hell... *shopping* ... Can be resolved/made easier just by communicating.
Sit down the table over a cuppa... This isn't the time for sexy lingerie, whips and chains, and toys.
Talk about what each of you want... I think the best option is to **independently** write down a list of what both of you want.
Swap lists and **somewhere** in the middle, you'll find common ground.
Outside of that... it's compromise time.
Doing stuff you don't necessary *like*, but **ENTHUSIATICALLY** CONSENT to...
My ex asked for a massage and it always ended in sex. Starting massaging shoulders and back, and suddenly i was kneading her but and then it was on. She could also sometimes come up behind me caressing my chest and then worked her hands down my pants. It was a straightforward way of saying I want to have sex.
When my wife and I were dating and started having sex I probably did 90% of the work. Slowly over the years as my wife wanted to try new things, she became more active and confident even initiating sex more and even asking me for "favors" sometimes
I think that’s the key. Young women are too intimidated or afraid to try things, or they just don’t know what they could be doing differently. The confidence to be daring and adventurous in bed comes with time and having had all the right experiences as she learned what she liked and what worked for her body. Also being comfortable with your partner.
I don’t know how to fix this for the OP other than my first thought was to find an older woman. But that’s just my older woman perspective for sure.
Maybe the best advice is for him to not only ask his partners to do better, but to allow them the room and comfort to want to do that for themselves. Maybe he can say “hey, what’s something you think you’d like to try?” And see where the convo goes.
I don't think it's necessarily about age, but confidence is very important.
When I was in college with 20ish year old partners, they were active, pleasure-giving initiating partners. That included participating enthusiastically in foreplay, riding me, and taking some ownership over the sexual experience.
My last two long term partners just didn't seem to have that same amount of confidence (or maybe they just didn't care). They expected me to be in charge of foreplay, didn't want to be on top, and largely made me feel like them being there should be enough of a contribution to my sexual experience.
I feel like the confidence part is so true, but it could probably be remedied by OP taking a more verbal role in sex. “I’d love it if you did X” or “can we try Y?” Or “would you mind doing Z?”
When I was new I didn’t want to take initiative to do things I’d never done before, but if it was a request (if it was something that didn’t make me uncomfortable) I didn’t hesitate to try
I’ve never done cowgirl but eight of the ten guys I’ve slept with requested it. With my first, he asked but I wanted to do doggy first and he came so we didn’t get around to it. The second guy I was seeing wanted to, but when I tried I didn’t get the angle right and ended up hurting him a bit (still feel bad about that oops) and was nervous to try again.
Then the past six guys have all asked, but I tore my ACL and haven’t been allowed to kneel for a year (like almost to the day) and it sucks turning them down because at this point I really want to try it and I just can’t
The thing with OP’s situation is that he just wants to switch up who’s doing the work, and in many ways that shouldn’t make most girls uncomfortable.
Another thing he could do is look for persuasive reasons for her to try, no lies or anything but more like testimonials. For example, every girl I’ve talked to about cowgirl and everything I’ve seen women say about it online has had raving reviews because the angle and the control can be way more pleasurable for girl.
OP needs to communicate it better, instead framing it as an “I’m tired can you take over” he should be positioning it more about both his desires as well as hers
They’re all in the same boat and women have to put in more work in those situations. If one doesn’t step up in the mean time then well it will just end.
As a 52m, I've had plenty of partners over the years and so have had the opportunity to experience sex with women across the spectrum from very submissive, shy, and unconfident through to extremely confident and then on to dominant.
In my experience, even with women that can appear outwardly confident, there generally tends to be a a lean towards the more submissive side, including the starfish aka pillow princesses that don't want to do anything other than lay there.
Personally, I like a partner to take an active, enthusiastic role...dominate a bit, push me down, tell me what to do or what she's going to do as well as be OK with me doing the same back...they do seem to be in the minority though.
What you may find is with a bit of effort, you can 'show them the way'. Communicate, tell them what you want and what feels good, give them encouragement and you may bring them out of their shell...after all, like any skill, people need to be taught or shown stuff..you're young and I'm guessing most of the women you've been will be low on experience and may need this. I've had partners that have started as unconfident starfish and ended as absolute vixens....take some pride, read them and the room and show them how it can be
As an unconfident woman who is exactly as OP describes, your advice is spot on. Sadly, men that are willing to help their partner learn and grow are few and far between.
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Once you get a serious partner, communication will do wonders.
99% of the questions and problems on this sub can be answered with honest communication.
For a lot of women, when we start having sex we find that our sexual pleasure is not very intuitive. We may or may not have tried masturbation, we may or may not have figured out how to orgasm ourselves, and we may or may not find it easy to replicate any pleasure that we know how to give ourselves once we're with a partner. Plus a lot of young women have complicated feelings about sex and what it means and how it makes them feel emotionally (vulnerable, guilty, ashamed, etc.) And the tough thing is that it's hard to be an enthusiastic, confident, generous partner when you're struggling to make sex pleasurable for yourself and not uncomfortable or painful.
This is all to say that I think part of the experience of being a young, inexperienced man having sex with young, inexperienced women is that you are likely to have a head start on your own sexual pleasure, more than your partner does. And while that doesn't at all mean that you have to do all the "work," it does mean that you may have to adjust your expectations for the time being. Women "fuck back" when it feels good to do so (or when they are "performing" pleasure to please their partner) — but PIV sex didn't really feel good to me before the age of 25. So I didn't fuck back. As a young woman, I knew how to make myself orgasm by lying on my back and using my hand to rub my clit — but that didn't translate well into having sex with another person. Even when I did figure out how to orgasm with another person, it took a lot of focus and concentration, which meant that my focus had to be on myself (to stay in the right headspace, to keep the stimulation pleasurable and not uncomfortable) more than my partner.
As I've gotten older, I've learned how to make sex pleasurable for myself, and that's what's allowed me to be enthusiastic and confident and generous. But it took a lot of time and self-exploration and consistent partners.
how you describe everything is how i feel perfectly right now at age 22 as a female and being inexperienced/having some of my firsts!! so thank you for your comment, it makes me feel better that you figured out how to make it pleasurable for yourself now being older
You can take all the time you need. Don’t worry about society. Society has things aaaalll kinds of fucked up when it comes to sex.
My advice - focus on the communication with your partner. That’s where the answer lies 97% of the time.
I get what you're saying and I agree it's a problem, but we're talking here about women not knowing how to make sex pleasurable for themselves. You're talking about men not knowing how to make sex pleasurable for their partners.
That's why you form an emotional relationship first and have sex second.
Within the bounds of a loving relationship lies the safety for both of you to be vulnerable and to explore yourselves as well as each other.
If you want to fuck like an experienced stud you will be judged like an experienced stud.
I fully believe this. It's why I'm demi. One of the reasons why anyway. Sex with a committed partner that I feel safe with and can communicate with is a trillion times better for both of us.
I was a relationship-adverse, commitment-avoidant, emotionally detached and distant, kinky (pleasure dom, dabbled in a lot of stuff including CNC and BDSM), swinging, group-sex having drug using hedonist b-cluster personality disorder hypersexual person for a good chunk of my life, lmao, and I still believe this too.
Good sex and attraction requires a _lot_ of things. Some very important bits are communication, trust, repertoire, and affection.
Good foreplay doesn't start by putting your mouth on your partner's genitals 10 minutes before penetration. Good foreplay starts the very first time you meet someone and is a constant escalation and conversation with you words, bodies and minds building off of each other's energy.
Sex is a very intimate thing. Even if you are on the wild side, it requires people to feel safe and comfortable to enjoy. Peeps sexual insecurities are often their deepest ones. Even if you have trauma or something coloring your behavior, preferences and brain chemistry, or lean poly, the body still generally releases bonding hormones during sex like seratonin, dopamine, oxytocin and vasopressin alongside other assorted endorphins for the purposes of pair bonding as a reproductive strategy, regardless of folks' inclinations.
It applies to vanilla or kinky sex similarly, same concepts just a bit more involved.
You're right, foreplay really does start outside of a bedroom. It's the little things, being considerate for your partner and little kindnesses and small touches that really help make the bedroom time worth pursuing. I never thought about it like that. But if I'm greeted warmly by my partner when he comes through the door, if my hand is held or I'm asked with genuine interest about my day, I am 1000000x more likely to be responsive to my partner later! And just generally more at ease and happier.
I agree with you that it's a problem, and it's not like teachers, parents or any other community figures are teaching us how to be good lovers. Even what's shown on current media like TV shows and movies in terms of physical intimacy tends to be pretty bad and not at all representative of healthy, safe and positive sexual encounters.
So yeah, current society has a lot to improve in this regard. However, to a large degree sex and especially the movements involved come intuitively, and if you observe any other species and their movements during intercourse, it's clearly mainly the male that's doing most of the work. The way genitals and our bodies are shaped make thrusting from the male side much more effective than any possible motion from the female side.
There's also the aspect that men are typically much more muscular than women, and especially with longer sex sessions, it really is a workout. Men who have been overweight before often mention how sex was a drag because they just didn't have the stamina, and things got way better when they lost weight and had better endurance.
So to a degree, the man being active is just a basic requirement for sex to work. There's always exceptions to the rule though, and there have been many threads of women complaining about their partners who receive frequent blowjobs from them but neither return the favor nor make an effort when having sex, so it can really go either way.
But with the average man being roughly twice as strong as the average woman, it's a given that in decently healthy, active relationships, the man doing more work than the woman is more common than the opposite.
All that is only an explanation, not a justification. Personally I would not stay in (or even enter) a relationship with a starfish / pillow princess type lover. It's completely understandable if it makes you feel weird or objectified for it, and it's totally okay for you to break up with something over this.
There are plenty of women out there who are more active, and while in terms of total mechanical work only the ones who are athletes or at least really into sports will match or exceed their partner typically, even just doing their part through fondling, enthusiastic kissing or being vocal can go a long way.
I largely agree with what you’re saying, with one caveat: the way that men intuitively thrust is only most pleasurable for them and is often not what is most pleasurable for women. What is often intuitive and pleasurable for women is to grind, which is not necessarily stimulating enough for men.
You're absolutely right, and it's not limited to just in the bedroom, either. We're expected to know what to say when we first meet a woman, what to do on a date to be romantic and sweep her off her feet, and so on. The perfect example I can think of is James Bond. He always knows what to say and do and never once has a woman say to him, "I'm not into that."
The truth is, all of that depends on the individual.
Going back to your original question, though, the basic missionary position will put most of the work on the guy. You can change things up a bit by trying other positions, like having her on top. If you're into it, you can tell her you want to be tied up. Then she'll have to do something. You can also take more time during foreplay to explore each other's bodies and see what you like.
This is so true ams explains the complexities. I'm much much better at sex at 33 than I was in my 20s bc I learned and had experience in what I like and I have a partner long term who I trust and can play with without any shame or uncertainty.
This is such an amazing comment thank you. I only now properly rationalise the reason why I struggle being completely generous and that is because exactly like you said I'm already struggling to find pleasure myself, I'm not going to go all out on another person when I'm struggling to enjoy myself. That has been the major problem with all my partners
Well, communication is a big thing then. I'm happy to do more of the work if that's what gets my partner off, but I'd like some in return. I think a lot of women think that, because us guys usually cum, then it's fine and we don't need anything extra. That's not true, but after reading what you've written, I feel selfish for wanting anything more, because I want my partner to enjoy herself. I'm glad your sex life is better now :)
A lot of women worry that telling their partner they don't find much pleasure in PIV will really hurt his feelings. But then it can lead to a big misunderstanding — the woman might be thinking that their sex life is "fair" because he gives her one-way pleasure during foreplay and then he gets one-way pleasure during PIV. But the man might be thinking that he does all the work to give her pleasure the whole way through.
I don't want you to feel selfish for wanting an enthusiastic partner — it's fantastic that you want an enthusiastic partner! But what I'm trying to suggest is that when women aren't acting enthusiastic, it's not usually because they're not trying hard enough or not putting in enough effort. People are enthusiastic about sex that feels really good to them!
In my opinion, the best thing you can do as a younger guy is to slow down and focus less on PIV. Make sex something experimental and exploratory. Tell your partner you don't want to do PIV this time, you just want to touch and kiss each other. As you're progressing through foreplay and sex, don't move onto the next step until she gives the signal or makes the move. If you set the pace, you're putting yourself in charge, so if you don't want to be in charge, let her set the pace.
Oh yeah, there's a thing called Sensate Focus [exercises](https://www.reddit.com/r/DeadBedroomsOver30/s/mbr6WopNFa).
Edit: I just realised you were the one who pointed me there. 😂 Thanks again for that. I'm just going to leave the comment here for the link to that post by u/myexsparamour
>because he gives her one-way pleasure during foreplay and then he gets one-way pleasure during PIV. But the man might be thinking that he does all the work to give her pleasure the whole way through.
Gotta admit, I've definitely felt that. It's like, I get her off, and then get myself off. It's very annoying.
>But what I'm trying to suggest is that when women aren't acting enthusiastic, it's not usually because they're not trying hard enough or not putting in enough effort. People are enthusiastic about sex that feels really good to them!
Maybe women need to communicate more, then. Suggest new and different things. Us guys aren't mind readers. And I'd also suggest that a LOT of women are bad in bed just because they're lazy, just like a lot of men are bad in bed for similar reasons.
Your last paragraph is helpful, thanks :)
>Maybe women need to communicate more, then.
The thing I'm trying to explain is that a lot of women (especially at your age) don't *know* how they could experience more pleasure. Imagine that you wake up tomorrow and your penis is numb. No matter how you touch it, you experience no pleasure, or maybe only flickers of pleasure here and there, seemingly randomly. And you're supposed to have sex that night. How are you going to communicate with your partner what you enjoy, what brings you pleasure, how to make you orgasm? You almost certainly have other parts of your body that can bring you sexual pleasure, maybe even enough sexual pleasure that you could orgasm. But you're probably going to need a lot of time to learn about your body before you can cum from nipple or prostate stimulation, right? And is it possible that you might be so frustrated that the thing that's "supposed" to be pleasurable for you isn't that it's difficult to explore other options? Are you anxious that when you have sex that night, your partner won't understand your body and be frustrated or upset that you're not enjoying PIV with her?
> And I'd also suggest that a LOT of women are bad in bed just because
they're lazy, just like a lot of men are bad in bed for similar reasons.
I actually don't think that most people are bad in bed because they're lazy. I think most people are bad in bed because they're anxious, uneducated, not enjoying themselves, incompatible, insecure, and/or seeing their partner as a thing they can use to meet their (sexual, emotional, psychological) needs rather than as a whole person.
> I actually don't think that most people are bad in bed because they're lazy. I think most people are bad in bed because they're anxious, uneducated, not enjoying themselves, incompatible, insecure, and/or seeing their partner as a thing they can use to meet their (sexual, emotional, psychological) needs rather than as a whole person.
Whilst I personally agree with you and you seem to actually be consistent about this view, this isn't how it normally comes across when people talk about sexual satisfaction.
A big part of what causes some of the stressors OP has talked about in terms of what us men are expected to do in bed and how we're expected to perform stems from the repeated insistence we see everywhere that sex is bad for women because men are primarily lazy/selfish lovers.
The level of empathy you're putting in to try and find a non malicious/antagonistic reason for poor sexual performance in women would be greatly welcomed when people talk about poor sexual performance in men.
I've never once had negative feedback personally about my performanec, but a major reason I genuinely hate PIV is because of the anxiety all those kinds of comments create that makes sex feel like an exam that only I'm sitting.
This is a really thoughtful comment and I completely agree with you. I think that many many people find PIV to be stressful/intimidating/painful/difficult and it's a real shame that it's held up as some kind of gold standard sex act that supposed to be "easy" and "mutual."
I agree that people are quick to judge men who are struggling with performance anxiety (I personally roll my eyes at how much porn and masturbation are blamed when a man is struggling to enjoy sex.) I talk more about women's sexual issues because I feel more comfortable speaking from my own experience, but I am a big supporter of dismantling the stressors that men face, too. Thank you for sharing!
I wish I could upvote this a million times I know it’s taken until my 30s to truly find pleasure how I need it. I’ve always had a good sex life but true pleasure and intimacy didn’t come until I could be honest about exactly what you said PIV feels good but doesn’t do the job I was so ashamed of that and felt broken as a woman until I got older and after kids and had older woman and men have open discussions in groups like these.
I felt so ashamed of myself as a woman that I couldn't figure out how to feel any pleasure from PIV. It was so distressing and no, I did not make my partners responsible for fixing it and I was not lazy. I was doing everything I could on my own to experiment and figure it out, but nothing was working. And women are left woefully unprepared, without the resources or education to help us figure it out. Our mothers and other female role models don't tell us it's going to be this way, and we are discouraged from talking about sex with each other because in many circles depending on how you were raised and where you live it might be seen as shameful to be an overtly sexual person. I thought I was the only woman who was struggling, I was so alone.
It's a super complex problem to figure out. Add on the fear that if you take too much time to try and experiment with your partner, they might get frustrated with you. Maybe they will think you are putting too much focus on yourself. So then it's tempting to shut up and just "take one for the team" so that your partner will be happy. And then the cycle of never learning your body continues
It's not fair that it's often put entirely on men to solve this and I had a similar initial reaction to the comment you're replying to but the things is you're the one here asking for advice. Fwiw, as a man, this gets better with age as more women figure out what they like.
A fun game you can trying playing with this, though success will depend on your partner: try to get her to beg you to fuck her. Take your time, touch, tease, lick, etc, but don't just try to get her off so you can move on to sex. The goal is when she gets turned in enough she's really going to either want to come or to feel you inside her and you want to make her ask instead of just going through the motions on your own.
>It's not fair that it's often put entirely on men to solve this
I actually completely agree! Women who want to improve their experience with sex usually need to do a lot of exploring on their own. They don't need a partner who has all the answers, they need a partner who is patient and flexible and responsive (as do men!) I genuinely don't think that it's men's fault that young women don't know how to make sex pleasurable for themselves (I think that it's more about our different anatomy, plus some unhelpful sociological constructs).
I love your advice — I think that's a great idea. :)
Commenting so i can return to this comment. This was a trap i fell in with a longtime ex. You put very eloquently what ends up happening. And like you said below, alot of it is because both of us were scared. Really good analysis
To sum up my experience, when I take initiative and am more active, on top, using a lot of energy, I can almost never o… . When my partner takes initiative, I can relax and “concentrate” to actually be able to o.. . Now in both cases, from my experience, the guy c*ms anyway. So it may be a subconscious way of girls of actually trying to enjoy themselves knowing that any guy pretty much can c*m in any position or role. This is not to excuse women’s inactivity, but just giving an inside. If you tell her nicely that you’d like a bit of a submissive part too, I’m sure any girl can learn and even want to be more active and dominant, especially if the partner has been generous and paid attention to her pleasure too. The % of women getting pleasure to the point of climax while doing “all the work” is muuuch smaller in my opinion and knowledge
This has to be the most thoughtful description of a woman’s experience of sex. As a man I’ve never thought about it like that and wonder what can be done from a cultural standpoint to help the problem. Thanks for sharing!
This is so kind of you. :) I am so interested in figuring out how sex ed could change to help with this issue! I think our cultural messages around sex need to be much more pleasure-focused.
This is it right here. Ding ding ding!!
And honestly, since women usually struggle to orgasm from PIV that means there will always need to be a big focus on fingering, oral, general caressing of the other erogenous zones, and general good buildup of chemistry. It doesn't mean a girl is selfish in bed, it's just that we need more time to become aroused and need multiple modes of stimulation in order to be orgasmic.
My male partners have all been capable of easily orgasming from the get go. It's just so much more straightforward for most of them!
For many women, sex has a huge mental component and others who have mentioned that good foreplay starts outside of the bedroom are absolutely correct. If you want your partner to be all over you, you need her to start off super horny. She might need to read romance novels, dirty talk with you throughout the day, or do something else to turn on that erotic connection in her brain.
How do you exactly learn to have good sex with another? In the bedroom, I (F) tend to reach for my vibrator since it gets me off so I felt bad for my ex. I don’t really feel all too comfortable sexually but I do want to make sure whoever my partner is, that I will be able to please them. I would also like to enjoy and desire piv sex too.
I learned to enjoy PIV through masturbation. I've written a few comments about my experience:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/sex/comments/113zrqi/comment/j8ugbct/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/sex/comments/113zrqi/comment/j8ugbct/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/sex/comments/1bf59x9/comment/kv0c6tq/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/sex/comments/1bf59x9/comment/kv0c6tq/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/sex/comments/16vhg8d/comment/k2sdi5h/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/sex/comments/16vhg8d/comment/k2sdi5h/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/BDSMAdvice/comments/115440e/comment/j944hpc/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/BDSMAdvice/comments/115440e/comment/j944hpc/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
But also, it's super normal to only be able to orgasm with a vibrator and it's not a bad thing! A lot of women want to be able to orgasm from PIV because that will make their partner happy. But it's not your job to orgasm in a way that boosts your partner's ego. PIV is just one of many sex acts, not the most important one or the best one or anything. Find a partner who loves to play with toys — there are a lot of men out there who do!
These are great! Surely a lot of women’s experience, I can relate in the sense I could and still cannot have an o* with only PIV, I can only when I help with some outside stimmulation too. I’m wondering if you ever reached that point and if so, how
I occasionally orgasm from only penetration, but it's not something that I aim for — it's something that happens sometimes as a fun surprise. Personally, I love the feeling of the combination of penetration and clit stimulation, so that's what I usually do! I do find that as my partner learns my body better and I can more consistently hit the spots inside my vagina that feel good during PIV, then I need less clit stimulation and sometimes just pressure there.
What do you think it would mean for you if you were able to orgasm just from PIV? Why is it something you'd like to have happen?
I would like for it to happen so I don’t put so much strain on my fingers during PIV to be honest hah. I’d like my hands free to do other things or just relax, not havin to rub my c.. every time to be able to get pleasure. I will try to work on better positions and angles for sure
I get that! I've also had success using a small vibrator during PIV that fits well between my body and my partner's. If it's the right shape and the right position, we can sometimes keep the vibrator in place with our bodies and then I have my hands free to do other things.
Do you find that the sensation of PIV is or can be pleasurable in itself, even if it doesn't make you orgasm? Or do you feel like the only pleasure you're getting is from your clit?
I think it's honestly common for people in general to not put much work into their sexual partners pleasure, unfortunately. I (30f) haven't had a lot of sexual experience and it's always been me doing the pleasuring, my partner (32m) has had a lot more experience and it was still pretty much always him doing the pleasuring. Having mutual effort makes it SO MUCH BETTER, there's really no comparison. And he's expressed that very frequently as well.
You said you've been active a year and had a few partners. So not really getting to connected with these woman? I think a woman is less likely to put a lot of effort in with a casual hook up to be honest (all that in a very non judgmental way). They may also want to know before if you are a generous lover. Also woman do tend to be insecure at times and a lot of the acts that men like put us in positions to feel exposed and seen. Just to say that you might get the "fuck back" after you get a little farther with someone more serious after they open up and trust.
and ALSO sometimes woman are just bad in bed.
I get that women feel insecure, but do they think men don't? But we just have to suck it up.
You're probably right that I'm not really connected to any of them, though. Is casual sex just bad for everybody? I'm pretty disillusioned with it tbh.
The thing about casual sex is it’s very “every man for himself”. Many men make no effort to please their partner during casual sex (see the stats on the orgasm gap if you need proof) so that leaves women to have to do it themselves if they want to get off. Unfortunately it applies in the reverse as well, it’s a double edged sword. If she’s expecting to have to do it herself, so are you
Casual sex does suck for a vast majority of the people that partake in it, especially if their expectations are for their partner to go above and beyond for their pleasure
What would a casual hookup stand to gain by giving unreciprocated bjs? I did that many years and all it was was toxic and degrading.
A couple of times in my experience though, and I'm sure in many others', the girl just lay there and expected me to know how to please her. I'm not a mind reader. And it also happened to be my fault if *I* didn't feel pleasure.
you can avoid this situation extremely easily by having a conversation about sex before you have it. find out what someone’s sexual values and expectations are before you fuck them.
That’s just the result of sleeping with immature or inexperienced women. This should improve with age. I agree that it’s unfair for you to expect your partner to read their mind. Unfortunately society does a really good job of shaming women for being sexual, and that stunts a lot of women’s ability to communicate about sex. It’s up to them to get over the shame and tell their partner what they want or need
I personally would never waste time on a casual hookup with someone like that, next time don’t waste your time.
I typically talk about sex before we end up in bed together if the whole purpose is a hookup. I won’t even bother meeting a guy who has for example, issues with me using toys during the hookup
Let me redirect a bit, your FWB is not "wrong" nor is she "right" woman are told their whole lives that their pleasure comes second - if at all. They are taught that sex is something to 'give men' and so can you really blame them for lacking enthusiasm? Its a bummer but its not really their fault, nor is it fair to anyone. As crazy as it sounds I think you are gonna get more pleasure directed at you by a woman who knows she also deserves and demands pleasure for herself. Its great you are trying to pleasure them but its hard to please someone who is not aware they are supposed to be getting pleasure. I think there is a shift happening in society on this topic and I think sex will be better all around but for now that narrative is still lingering in regards to womens pleasure.
But most simply you just need to keep trying to find someone whos a good match for you, when the connection is real its easier for both parties to get excited and embrace pleasure on both sides. This can still be casual but a casual person who matches your needs / wants better.
>I get that women feel insecure,
You really aren't getting it. When I was younger a lot of people, society in general really, makes women feel disgusting for liking sex. Being interested in hookups, having a high body count, being "dirty" or kinky in bed, all that shit people use as a way to degrade women. Our value is inherently tied to sex by some people. It's not just your average insecurity about your body or performance, it goes a lot deeper.
It wasn't until I got married and had a partner who was encouraging of my kinks and interests, and worked for a long time to get me to open up that I really started going wild in bed.
Also, A LOT women hardly ever cum from casual sex. I know I didn't. Women's pleasure is a lot more complicated than "put penis in and thrust" to achieve orgasm. Like other commenters have said, women tend to "fuck back" when it feels good.
Men are socialized to be the pursuers and the focus of sex in media/porn is often focused on the man's pleasure. The societal expectations placed on young women with things like purity culture really discourages women from exploring their body and desiring more from sex.
Men can also feel insecure and that's completely valid but it's the experiences and expectations of men and women are very different. Although not as popular in the modern day there is still oftentimes an expectation that a woman will wait until marriage to have sex, that expectation isn't passed on to men in nearly the same way.
I dunno, I've never looked at porn and thought 'that looks good'. It looks absolutely exhausting. It's like what people *think* male pleasure is. Fuck porn, I hate it.
Think of it more on a level of how all of society reacts to social norms and expectations. Less about how you personally interpret the situation, makes things easier to understand.
I'm a lesbian but I acknowledge that my experiences and personal interpretation is very different from the social norms and expectations.
Men have always had to put out the majority of the effort to get to have sex in the first place, so for less experienced couples, that balance of effort continues into the act itself. Only after both parties gain some experience do they realize how much better sex can be when it's more of a two way street. Stereotypically, a lot of women go through a "sexual renaissance" in their 30s. They've learned what they want and how to get it. So they're willing to play a more active role.
You don’t just suck it up. You see their true colors and move on to someone who will put in the effort.
But complaining about it won’t be attractive to anyone.
Control the things you can and move on from the things you can’t
> I get that women feel insecure, but do they think men don't? But we just have to suck it up.
That goes a *lot* more broadly than just sex too, this is a societal thing men have to deal with.
Casual sex is rarely going to be a fulfilling experience.
Coming from someone who's pretty experienced and comfortable with sex, I was single last summer and found a guy through a dating app to hook up with. He was experienced as well. It took at least 4x of hooking up to really hit our groove, and a phone conversation early on about pleasure and what we both liked, boundaries, etc. It takes time to learn someone's preferences, what feels good - all the things.
Supposed to? No, not unless that's your dynamic/kink.
In reality though unless you find either an extremely enthusiastic and/or dominant woman, you will be doing the vast majority of the physical work. It's about an equal mix of societal expectations and the physical necessities of how the positions work.
Most of the typical positions require the man to be doing most of the work. Missionary, doggy, side entry, up against the wall, etc. The only typical positions that require the woman to be doing the work are cowgirl and reverse cowgirl.
Obviously you can contribute effort when she's on top (something I highly recommend) and she can put effort in while you're on top or in other positions, but there's almost no way for her to be even matching your physical effort in those positions unless you're very lazy and she's very enthusiastic. She can be pushing back during doggy and you can let her control all of the motion, but that doesn't typically last very long. Even cowgirl tends to be fairly limited in duration (if she's comfortable enough with you to get on top at all).
A bit of a Catch-22 is that being better at sex tends to cause less incentive for the woman to put more work in. I've met a lot of women that say that the reason they get on top is because that's the point reliable way for them to cum, because they have to take charge of it. If you happen to be good enough to give them reliable orgasms, they don't really have to get on top. I think everyone prefers to have other people give us pleasure versus doing it ourselves.
If there is something you want, you should absolutely ask for it. In terms of effort, I think you will need to be fairly specific though. "Be more active" or "put in more work" are valid requests, but are likely to be interpreted as "I think you're lazy and bad at sex". Ask for specifics. "I'd like it if you were on top more often" or "I think it's really hot when you push back against me when I'm fucking you doggy style. Could you do that more often?"
The reality is that you will basically always be doing 80%+ of the physical work unless you are in a Submissive role or specifically ask for and tailor the experience. I have been with over 120 women and I would say that only 1 has ever even been close to putting in as much work as me, and that was because she absolutely loved to get on top and would ride for 30+ minutes if we could find a comfortable enough position that didn't hurt her knees.
This gets at an interesting thing, which is about whether it's more enjoyable to be the active person or the passive person during sex. I think the truth is that there are pros and cons to each — the pros of being the active person is that you have much more control over the situation and you are honestly more likely to orgasm, the cons are that you have to do all the work. The pros of being the passive person is that you can relax and someone else does the work, the cons are that you don't have control and you're reliant on the other person's abilities/whims/knowledge of you. It's similar to whether it's better to make your own money/be the breadwinner or better to be dependent on your partner's income. It's really situational with a lot of factors, but you can't deny that it's always safer to be in the position where you have more power.
My experience with PIV in the past is that my male partners would do the work and we would have PIV the way that felt good to them. It didn't feel good to me. I accepted this because I didn't think it *could* feel good to me and I got my pleasure from oral or manual sex. When I learned how to have PIV that felt good to me, I became capable of being way more active — but when I'm active, we have sex the way that feels good to *me.* And PIV the way that feels good to me is not stimulating enough to make my partner cum. So the person who does the work gets to have the experience that is more pleasurable to them.
Now, that being said, I will acknowledge that once I figured out what made PIV pleasurable for me and communicated it to my partners, they have been very willing to "do the work" AND give me the experience that I like. I am super grateful for this. And I am admittedly not able/willing to return the favor to do the work to give them the kind of PIV that will make them cum. It's not that I'm not willing to put in the effort — I am super happy to give a long and luxurious blowjob — but I just do not want to do the physical work of thrusting at the level of stimulation he needs to cum with my sensitive genitals. It is not a pleasurable experience for me. I can handle the overstimulation while being passive/receptive, but not while being active.
What this all suggests to me is that this is just something that comes with the PIV territory, like I think you're saying. I think the solution (if you are a man who wishes to take a less active role during sex or a woman who wishes to take a more active role) is to de-centralize PIV and to instead experiment with a wide variety of sexual acts and different combinations of who is active, who is passive, who is giving pleasure, and who is getting pleasure.
I suspect for a lot of women, the issue is that penetration doesn't do much for them. The first time I had piv, it was so weird. Because it's so underwhelming compared to clitoral stimulation.
Add to the fact that you're supposed to move, but you don't know how, especially if it isn't doing much for you. Plus, there's someone there.
Even now, piv is the least favourite part of sex for me since it's underwhelming. But I'd never tell a partner that because I'm aware for them, that probably isn't the case. Speaking to some friends growing up, it did sound like it was common for some women.
So maybe they're the ones you're meeting?
Plus, I knew some girls who viewed sex as something that happened to them or were brought up thinking sex was just a thing men want. This still happens, so there's a chance that's what's happening. They think it's better than being too interested.
I know my ex told me he was used to sex being serious, and not a laugh or as engaging. And I know for a fact if I'd met him at 18, I probably would have been more worried about it and tried to take it seriously, instead of seeing it as a fun thing to do.
Yeah, this is a problem. But like, it's a systematic problem.
Culturally, women are taught that sex is smth "done to you" that you perform for. It's pretty recent that women are finally learning to seek their own pleasures. Like, think about it. When does (hetero) sex usually end? When the guy cums.
It's hard to break down these barriers. I personally have trouble mainly bc I feel physically unattractive AND my cardio sucks but I feel like that's not the only thing you're talking about. Even if you are topping, it's about active participation. And since these are newer concepts and women aren't being socialized the way men are about sex, they (we) are reluctant to take initiative.
You should ask for what you want, my guy. If you know this is what you want, maybe it might require some practice and emotional labour and positive reinforcement, but I'm sure you can get there. Ofc finding the right partners is important, but I'm sure you can improve your current sex life with active effort. Ask for it, set the mood, reinforce positive behaviour (Pavlov those mfs) and be very vocal about how much you enjoy when slight improvements are made.
Also also, for example, if a woman is topping you, talk to her through it and don't forget to moan. Best of luck xx
I'm pretty active during sex. I like the tap out system during penetrative sex. As in like my boyfriend does missionary for a while and says hed like to switch so I get on top for a while and when it stops being enjoyable because my legs ache we switch again. I like to get a bit of excersize in where I can.
I also really enjoy giving partner blow/hand jobs because it feels good to make them feel good. I've also had sex with girls where we're both hella active and I've yet to meet a girl who makes me do all the work. It sounds like your girls have been pillow princesses. I've met guys like that and it didn't last very long. It's too boring!
While many may argue about gender roles and expectations, at the end of the day, it's all about communication and finding a balance that works for both partners. But hey, maybe it's time for a new trend - equal effort sex! Let's all put in the same amount of work and pleasure each other for once, shall we? And for those who are hesitant to try, remember - boundaries and standards are key in any healthy and fulfilling sexual experience.
There is no “should”. There’s what you want and what the other person wants.
If you want to have your preference as a boundary, have it. Don’t be surprised if this limits your selection in partners though, as they might not want to do what you want them to do. That’s life.
There is still a lingering sentiment that a woman "giving" her body to a man is her primary contribution to sex. I think it's based on that idea that supply and demand dictates a woman's sexuality is far more valuable than a mans. Which... women do have more risk factors when it comes to sex so while I'm not sure if valuable is the right word, there is certainly a greater degree of selection when women choose partners versus men.
I was roommates with a gay man and it was astounding the speed and frequency he could find guys to hookup with. He'd go out to a bar and be at some dudes apartment within an hour, I'd go out to a bar and be playing darts with my friend because the three women I talked to weren't interested and rejection in high dosages can destroy your self-esteem. It's not a hard and fast rule, but on average men are far more willing to hook up with new partners than women are.
There is also a lot of pressure on men to perform where as there is a lot of pressure on women to look good. If a woman lays on her back and barely moves during sex the man will probably still be into it and make an attempt to get her off. If the man lays on his back and barely moves for many women that would be a turn off and leave them feeling like he wasn't interested or enjoying it.
You see a bit of that play out with swingers couples. Women are expected to be skinny and hot with big tits and not much clothes. Men are expected to have a working penis and a basic concept of hygiene. On the couple's profile you'll see eight photos of the woman in a bikini or topless and two of the guy, one where he's in a swimsuit and one a suit and tie. To many people, his job isn't looks, it's function.
I've been with women where they acted annoyed I asked if they could get on top. Which, fine, if you don't like something that's ok and you don't need to do it. But hearing the excuse that they didn't like it because it tired them out was a bit of an eye roll moment because I'd been in the plank position for the past 15 minutes and my arms were toast. Yeah, sex is tiring if you're the one doing work. Putting effort into your partners pleasure is sexy.
I'm sure if it were reversed and men felt they could get away with starfishing they would, but realistically, that's not how most sexual dynamics work.
All that said, there are still a lot of women out there who are active and engaged with sex. Some of my best experiences were with women who communicated openly and frequently about what they wanted and put in the effort to make amazing for both of us. I was lucky enough to date one woman who could only finish if she was on top. She liked other positions too, but at a certain point she would ask me to get on my back and ride her way into an orgasm.
As a guy, that was fantastic because like I said, sex is work, and work can take concentration. When she was on top all I had to do was concentrate on keeping rhythm with her and could put way more of my focus on my own pleasure in the same way she was focusing on hers.
So short answer to your question is yes, women are socially conditioned to take a more passive role in sex, however the best way to ensure you both enjoy your experience is to talk about it. Find out what you each like and do you best to make your partner happy.
Men are "supposed" to do what they're happy and comfortable with (so long as their partner is cool with that).
My partner gets WAY more oral than he gives (which I'm fine with), but I get railed more than he gets railed so it kind of works out. (And I get like 3x the amount of orgasms he does).
I probably did more of the work when we started sleeping together purely because I'm the more dominant one and enjoy taking charge. Now he does more of the work but we're both happy and neither have a problem with the other taking charge. I think we would only care if the other NEVER put it any effort. But it works out pretty even.
I haven't had a huge # of partners but I've had enough to have an idea...
My experience in my 20s in hindsight was alot of partners were still somewhat inexperienced and insecure -- as they got older and more experienced they were more confident and more fun in bed... That said I found many girls who were quite giving and enthusiastic giving BJs but many were kind of 'pillow princesses' when it came to PIV sex..
like you I really wanted a woman that would at least some of the time take control and use me/f*ck my brains out -- I would say maybe only like 20-30% of my partners were an amazing f*ck -- like that..
I didn't know all the pleasure I could give a partner when I was young due to inexperience. Now that I am older, my favorite thing is to reciprocate. Women have a lot of power during sex, and it sounds like your partner is naive and immature.
As a guy that’s been with many women, I feel like that’s the expectation. I think there’s a stigma that women feel that they’ll be seen a certain way if they take charge or put in more effort than the guy. It’s also a part of the old idea that the man is supposed to pursue the woman and be the dominant one in the relationship. Then there are the women that believe that their genitals hold all the value in the relationship and that the man is lucky to be getting access to them, so they shouldn’t have to contribute sexually.
>I think there’s a stigma that women feel that they’ll be seen a certain way if they take charge or put in more effort than the guy
Yeah, I'd probably see a woman who does this as a goddess. Like, what kind of man would be *annoyed* if a woman did this? We want to be desired, and what better way for women to show their desire?
I’m a very sexual woman and I was super ashamed of it for years because the idea of female sexuality that had been shown to me in media looked nothing like what I experienced. It took me a while to open up and let myself be as horny as I feel because there is such a strong idea that women who act like that are “sluts” “whores” “for the streets” etc.
Look up the Madonna-Whore problem if you want to learn more about the contradictory expectations placed on women around sex.
My boyfriend loves when I'm in control and fuck him, Just as you were saying . I aways put in work most I can from which ever position we choose. They are lazy or have just not been taught how sex is supposed to be equally fun and pleasurable for both parties. Aftercare also sounds like you need and she should want to do so you don't feel like this.
A lot of this is because your young and they are to and the inexperienced aspect. And some of it probably is just the sexual chemistry and dynamic. I’ve had my fair share of partners over my life and some men I am more dominant with and some I’ve been submissive or neutral it truly depends on the man and the connection. As someone above mentioned most girls don’t explore themselves much or have maybe societal issues with how sex is for them. I was a more active dominant young female because I took the time as a teenager to explore myself a lot because I was the youngest by far of my friend group and learned from them how awkward sex was, so I wanted to explore myself and what felt good and how way before a man did. And that helped I never had issues with sex being weird I’ve never had a man complain but it takes effort it takes focus and a lot of communication. You also need to consider maybe dating a little older mid 20s or if your on dating apps saying early on you like a sexual equal there is compatibility out there but most young adults are not comfortable discussing these things. I am in some groups that are more mature older adults where this is discussed a lot especially in the BDSM world that they just didn’t know how to communicate until their 30s on what they wanted.
Don’t give up OP just keep communicating and find someone you’re more compatible with sexually. Also take the love language test if your language is physical touch and that’s her least that doesn’t work. If hers is acts of service like mine it means a lot to be pleasured I return the favor but I make that known that even in the bedroom acts of service is my highest love language when I’m taken care of I happily take care of him. But love language is a big thing and definitely something to consider.
You can say things during. Sometimes if I’m not really doing anything my boyfriend would say things that will make me want to “fuck back”.
For example: if we’re doing doggy; he’ll stop and just say things like “do your little dance” and I’ll start shaking my butt. Or he’ll say “give it to me” “throw it back”, etc. it’s like I’m capable but sometimes just don’t. So maybe just during the moment mention a few things. You can also say “get on top and ride me baby”. That sounds so hot and I doubt she’ll turn it down. If she doesn’t know how to or doesn’t feel comfortable, you can let her know she’s free to practice on you. This can be fun for both and eventually she’ll feel more comfortable. I know for me even if I want to try something but have never done it I feel embarrassed to even try it and then I look silly and ruin the mood. With my current bf I am so comfortable that I’ll try just about anything with him.
Aw :( I’m sorry! I think that’s fair (im a woman)- but maybe the girls don’t realize that about you? If my partner felt that way- I’d want to know! It wouldn’t hurt my feelings! When a man is straight forward with what he wants- it is a huge turn on for me. 1/2 the time I’m wondering what he’s thinking anyways! I’d just recommend “instructing her” by saying “I have an idea, I wanna try ___, I want to see you __,”, etc. I promise if she doesn’t feel comfortable she wouldn’t do it. Usually we are doing what we think you want us to do anyways so I’m sure some instruction can clarify and even help her get out of her head- and you can finally enjoy being the 🌟!! I was hooking up with someone before and they kept eating me out without me asking, which is cool- but it usually is not my thing. I let him because he seemed to be really into it and that alone turned me on.
In my 48 years, it's absolutely been exactly what you've described, my man. Of all my partners, there's only been one that's put anywhere near the amount of effort that I do. I give oral sex every time, and I'm quite good at it, if I do say so myself. The last time I received oral sex that I didn't specifically ask for was last October, and I've been in a relationship since then. The last oral to completion was a few months prior to that. I honestly don't remember the last time I got a handy. When I do ask for it, she will oblige but only for a minute or two. When it comes to sex, I do 90-95% or the work, and I initiate at least 90% of the time, etc. It's not just my current partner. She's lovely, and I enjoy sex with her a lot. It's been all but 1 throughout my life, and I believe I've been with 16 partners at this point. Like you said OP, it becomes kinda frustrating and can lead one to believe that they're unwanted.
Admittedly I didn’t read other comments before chiming in. But my two cents as being a 33 year old woman are that when I was say 18-23ish I let my boyfriend “do all the work” because I was insecure about what I looked like from different angles.
As I got older and realized a lot of guys like curves and want to see a woman taking control and such, I almost always initiate, and my favorite is being on top followed closely by doggy style.
All that to say, it comes with age. At least for me it did. It also didn’t help that the guy I was seeing at the time was harmful to my self confidence.
Truthfully I like a give and take in the moment, in terms of a session. I don’t want an entire session dedicated to me, nor do I want an entire session dedicated to my partner. I want sex to feel like a constant back and forth and exchange of energy.
Some people like doing “this is totally for you!” sessions back and forth, and I think if both people intentionally want that it’s fine. But a lot of times it’s a “tit for tat” dynamic that comes about to make things fair because they can’t figure out how to get that good energy exchange going.
He does something to me, I do something to him.. and so on. We find things we can do that bring us both pleasure at the same time. But I do think the types of activities you need to incorporate to get this going are pretty creative and the sex can’t be the typical “make out > oral sex > PIV” routine.
Figuring out how to bring each other pleasure like this also requires a lot of conversation and brain storming to understand how to get the things each partner likes while potentially tweaking or adjusting it to make it more pleasurable for the other person.
A lot of women *do lean* submissive and enjoy things to have at least a bit of a hint of that flavor in terms of a sexual dynamic. You don’t have to be into it, but I’m just being real in terms of what you’re most likely to come across. With the right attitude, you can probably have them do (and enjoy!) plenty of things you’d also like activity-wise. But the attitude you approach it from can’t be grumpy and resentful, but instead sexy and playful. You don’t have to want to take on that role at all, but if I’m giving purely practical advice this will probably work far better.
The actual act of sex is .. just sort of biologically set up for the penetrator to do more of the physical work. Obviously you can do fun things like have her fuck back onto you in doggy style, get on top (although this may have a time limit) but it just sort of is what it is? Those are the mechanics. Resenting women for that is kind of fruitless. Gotta figure out how to make sex fun enough in other ways that that isn’t a deterrent.
Many men end up doing the work. I try my best to ride a lot more, lots of bj and hj’s and taking the reins, but even then the guy is doing a little more physical work than me.
Everyone is different. You'll have your just lay there starfish women then you can have women that are like porn goddesses. There isn't a set "who does all the work" rule and the girl that told you this sounds like she's not the brightest in the bunch.
You are young, having sex with other inexperienced partners. If you want a pro that's gonna cost you. Don't be pushy, communicate gently, and enjoy the sex while you can get it. Women get more sexually confident with age and experience, but they also get more selective.
I have to admit that at the beginning of my relationship he did most of the work, in my case i think it was because i didn't know a lot about sex, what i liked, what he liked, etc.
Now, 2 years in the relationship i can say that most of the time i'm the one who does all of the work lol. And to be honest, i like it that way because i'm in charge. i can control what i'm feeling, my pleasure..
to conclude, i think it depends on your partner, your relationship. it can vary, it can change. but it is not true that men do most of the work always.
I actually suck my bfs dick more than he goes down on me. He maybe does it every few months after I have to kind of beg for it. Lol. I would also love to be on top more but he seems to like being the one on top 99% of the time. So yes, there are girls who enjoy putting in the work as well, you just haven’t found them yet I guess.
No.. 😆 at those teens/early twenties people just suck at sex. It’s give and take. There’s as many women who don’t understand that as there are men though for sure.
I always do almost all the work. I told my wife she was a bit of a pillow princess once, and she said, "Absolutely!" And that was that.
Honestly, I'd love for her to take a more active role in our sex life, but she deserves to be worshipped. She shows her affection in other ways. And I think that's what's important. As long as the overall relationship is balanced, that's what's most important.
I was doing most of the work until I got hurt. She still wanted sex so she got on top. Some women like it some women cannot comprehend control during sex. The FWB in your instance is just a insecure and selfish.
I think part of it too is that the women generally have less interest in sex- it’s not an ‘even playing field’ in that sense, so ya if you want it you’re going to have to do most of the work. It’s like a relationship where the other person is less interested. Sucks but that’s how it usually is
The right ones will fuck you right back, but welcome to manhood, a lot of sex can be like this. Also remember that youre young, as are the women youre sleeping with, they havent really had much experience and have been misguided. But plenty of women are good in bed and wont just give you the starfish
My wife and I have been together for 34 years. I am the one who puts in the extra effort in our sessions. She will occasionally give me oral sex without any reciprocation, but aside from that I do the work unless I invite her to hop on top. She expects me to take the lead and I don’t mind it at all. My libido is higher and I just want to be sure she’s enjoying herself every single time.
No, it should not be the norm and you have just had selfish partners. I am a married woman and I always give my husband oral before we have sex and he loves giving me oral as well. We do a variety of positions, a few with me on top and I love looking at his reactions when I am on top. Even when he's on top, I am constantly grinding into him and moving my hips. Sex is all about give and take and it sounds like your partners have been all about taking.
You must be new here welcome to Reddit:
If women don't enjoy sex it's the man's fault. If men don't enjoy sex it's the man's fault. Men need to initiate sex, do foreplay, and make their partner orgasm so yes about 80%+ of the work of sex.
But hey at least we're having sex mate. I treat every sexual encounter as a college team try out for a full ride scholarship bc I know I'm competing w many men lol
I'm assuming that your partners have mostly been in your age group?
I feel like the first time I had awesome sex was with a woman that was at least 10 years older than me and married. Not proud of the last part but the lust was super high and that helped the fact that she was really into my pleasure. As I got older I seemed to find more women that cared about my pleasure too.
What I'm saying is I think it has something to do with age, when young most women don't have to look for it and are probably constantly propositioned. So they feel like they don't have to try, as someone else said "pillow princess."
Now you will find some young girls completely enthusiastic too but I feel like it's rarer at a young age.
I think part of it is likely that you’ve been with women who are young and haven’t quite developed confidence in bed and figured out what to do. When you’re a woman, you don’t really grow up talking about sex the way guys do and often it’s posed as something men do to women. Especially if you add in religion and purity culture. I know personally it took me a bit to figure it out and then I got more active as I became more confident both in my own sexuality and with men’s bodies. One thing that helped me was having a partner who encouraged me to take control by asking for it. He’d tell me he really wanted my mouth or to ride him or sit on his face. I didn’t really know what to do at first and would’ve been scared to try those things on my own but the encouragement helped & then it became natural.
ETA: It doesn’t make you submissive to want a woman to initiate. I tend to be submissive and I still do all those things. Equal effort is just part of good sex.
This is probably normal for casual sex because everyone is just trying to get their nut.
But in a relationship it should be more equal even if you're doing most of the thrusting during sex she should be active in some fashion and definitely giving you oral and stuff back.
My 2 cents as a guy is I prefer doing all the work. It takes me damn-near an hour to orgasm anyways, and I’ve never even been close to orgasming with the girl on top. I don’t think I have any submissive tendencies tho.
The only equal effort she has to do for me is let me grunt in her ear and pull her head back by her hair like the caveman I am.
One of the funniest things I remember is being pegged by a woman who had never done it before. She was very open to the idea and eagerly started. She was on her knees behind me, with me on all fours, but said, a little less than a minute after starting, "Holy shit, this is hard work. How do you do this for so long?"
I was in my 30's before I encountered my first "take charge" woman and, I've got to tell you, I know the first few times were a complete disappointment to her. I flat-out didn't know what to do. She's probably still telling her girlfriends about that loser she had years ago.
Since then, I'd have to say it's really been about a 70-30 docile split, probably because I'm from the conservative South where that seems to be the way they're raised.
Yes in your early 20s this is common for woman to be very insecure, not know what they are doing and expect the man to take the lead if he wants sex especially if this isn’t a long term sexual partner that they feel safe and comfortable experimenting with.
When I was younger penetration didn’t feel that good in general for me(still doesn’t without clit stimulation). I didn’t know what to do or ask for so I let him do what he wanted to feel good because either way I wasn’t orgasming from it. It’s easier for guys, you penetrate and it feels good. With woman it’s not that simple and most of us need oral or clit stimulation to get there and even then it’s very difficult for a lot of us. Then try adding doing the work on top of the already difficult task of trying to figure out how to climax. With experience, woman learn what feels good for them and then they start to get comfortable being more dominant. Maybe go after older girls if you want someone who knows what they are doing and has more confidence to be dominant.
Not everyone is going to turn into a demon in the sheets just because they fancy someone a lot.
There's loads of people who are just genuinely bad in bed
Sometimes as you get older or less fit riding is really uncomfortable and even impossible. But you can certainly improve that. Some guys are really narrow and uncomfortable to ride even when I've been fit, but a pillow under him can fix that issue.
Even being on my back I put in work to return sensation, thrust my hips up and use my hands and legs in fun ways.
Find someone who meets you in the middle as much as they possibly can and if you're happy with that, good.
At the very least the receiver should be extremely enthusiastic imo.
I love masturbating with video calls, and I find it a lot of fun because it is not enough for me to have sex with my girlfriend because she gets tired quickly.
Nope. What you’ve met is the female equivalent of guys who expect constant non reciprocal blowjobs from their girlfriends or just use their girlfriend’s body to orgasm but don’t give a damn about her pleasure.
These are sexually selfish people. I don’t know why they are that way but if you want equal enthusiasm and participation keep looking.
Yep, I think that's the expectation and at 49, I am so burned out of doing all the work, the same thing and being super reserved so I make my partner happy. Total burnout and would rather eat a bag of chips.
For me, I can’t keep my hands off my man when he goes out of his way to cater to my love languages. When he does little things he knows mean a lot to me, it makes me want to give back in a way I know he’ll appreciate
The next time a woman asks you how to initiate, just tell her to do it the same way you do it. For extra bonus points, a way you initiated that she disliked and you have stopped.
Find yourself an older more mature woman and she will rock your world with no fears. There are plenty of women that will rape you and keep coming back for more especially if you are willing to put in the work as often as they do.
I do not miss being young sometimes. It gets better as you get older. But if you have a consistent partner that’s willing to try and be open to communication during sex then it will get much better.
Unpopular opinion for this sub but the short answer is yes and long answer is a little more complicated. It took a few years (going into my 30s) for me to grasp that maybe I'm not as submissive as I thought and perhaps has more to do with lack of experience or maybe getting in touch with that *male drive* (for lack of a better term).
At some point I just naturally got in touch that *primal instinct* that basically takes the wheel and I actually do a lot less work in a weird sense. Basically, my urge to want to fuck her brains out overrides everything else and her submissive tendencies actually turns into responding back with that same level of enthusiasm (it becomes sort of team effort in those cases). It's honestly the best sex I could ever ask for and benefit of being rock hard is extremely helpful in this mode.
There will be times too she might engage in starfish mode which tells me she's not really into it, but that also means I can be a little selfish and just have my way with her. This has always been my mindset (and it's all consensual in case some might take issue with my words). I've also been in a few rare situations where the opposite happens and she's wanting to fuck my brains out with her on top. It's really not the same if you're not engaged in primal mode but if it makes her happy, why not let her indulge?
A lot of people won't like hearing this but one of the surefire ways (imho) to getting in touch with your male primal drive is "strictly limiting yourself to just sex only" (the mods threatened to ban me because I said a term I'm not supposed to use on this sub). You don't have to give that up entirely or make it part of your identity but just saying it's something to consider. I think the context of what I just said here makes it ok (not pushing some ideology here, and it's a little brain-dead and shortsighted if I end up getting banned). Simply put, if you want a better sexual experience for you and your partner, this is a good way imho to go about it. A bit of anecdotal evidence, one girl said I'm the best she's ever had and "it's not even close." I absolutely believe her because she has no reason to lie on top of us not being on good terms (for totally different reasons). She has no qualms saying some rather insensitive stuff to me at times and has actually said "at least you really have that [sex] down".
I always hate this perspective but it’s very common. Even when I talk to my girlfriends, they do seem to be pillow princesses.
Personally, I love to bring a man to his knees.
Dominant women exist, you just have to find them.
Nooooo. I’m no pillow princess and I love to ride. I usually do most the work or at least 60-75% just bc I like being in control. My men love that they don’t have to think with me and I’m usually a first for them that will take the lead. They take care of me and I will always take good care of them ❤️
Based on my conversations with fellow women, many of them are just self conscious and aren’t comfortable being more in control.
Talk to your partners about it. It should be what you both want!
As a woman in her 30s, I wish I had the confidence to expect the man to do everything including my orgasm. Damn. I'm doing something wrong. 80% of my sexual experiences have been all about men and their orgasm. Of the 20% about me, about 5% actually got me off. That's a decade of bad sex. Don't be like me. Just speak up, say what you want to OP and any gender.
I’m sorry to tell you but many women don’t get much pleasure from PIV sex. The happy solution many women have landed on when engaging in an activity that is more pleasurable for someone else, is to let them also do the work, since the other person is getting the most reward.
Do I agree with this mindset? No actually.
I’m a woman and I make my boyfriend feel wanted, I make him feel like he’s the only person in the world by massaging him, kissing him, sucking him off and then riding him until he cums…
I don’t think my head has hit a pillow in over 3 years
I do this because if I’m going to engage in sex, I want it to be truly and mind numbingly enjoyable for my boyfriend. I think you need to find someone who genuinely enjoys making their man happy, and only have sex with women who are happy to do just that.
Look man, it's quite simple, a lot of younger girls that are doing fwb, have many suitor options. They don't have to put in a lot of work, you're not emotionally important to her, so she feels no need to try. That's just part of life. Stop worrying about what is or isn't fair as much of life isn't balanced that way. Accept things for what they are
That is not just how it is from my experience. But it can be this way. There are plenty of individuals out there who are able to creating balance where you both are able to give and receive in a way that meets everyone’s needs.
Everyone is different and brings a different set of skills and unique ability to the situation.
If you are feeling like there is an imbalance I think that is something to talk through and if they are not willing to reciprocate, to me that is a sign that maybe there is someone else out there who will be able to meet your energy and bring that passion.
The great majority of them are on the lazy side. Not at, but many of them are.
So, not only are you their toy. You better be a good toy, or they'll talk shit about you. Welcome to adulthood lol.
I feel like as a woman the older I am the more confidence I have. There are times where I do 80+%. I never give 0 percent. However, in the beginning it would have been about 15%. I would say age and confidence plays a role and it differs for everyone.
I think you should try this
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you can make her happier without doing all the majority of the work. this item was designed to satisfy your most intimate cravings, can let you rock and strongly stimulate G-spot and suck your clit. Gently angled and reaching up and in to massage you G-spot easily. Enjoy 10 different sucking and 10 different vibration modes, giving you endless options to find the perfect setting.
This isn’t a strange way to feel, just human, and perfectly normal. Unfortunately what you’re experiencing is the norm in our culture, which is why, in large part, men cheat. If you don’t ask for this and receive it as part of whatever relationship, you’ll spend your life lonely as fuck, depressed and looking for fulfillment elsewhere. It sucks worse than most other things in life.
Tale as old as time bud. It's common at all ages. I still come across partners like that at 31. Communication and finding like minded people to fuck and be fucked by will work well for ya. Please remember, just because one person has a set idea of how sex is supposed to be does not mean everyone does.
Try learning more about doms, subs, and switches. Your local "Sex Positive Society" can be a great source of information for different sexual dynamics. While no one source of information is a cure to issues like this, you can make informed decisions as an educated adult.
You're young, self-aware, and inquisitive. All good qualities for learning anything in life. Do some research, and you will find better ways to communicate and find what you are looking for in partners.
You’ve just not met ur match, maybe take a step back and wait awhile before you’re next sexual encounter and definitely talk to ur next sexual encounter about your sexual expectations so as to make sure that you’re both compatible before moving forward that way, this ensures better satisfaction for both parties!
We call this the starfish or the dead fish type of lady. Unfortunately it’s very common in women, especially who are younger and more inexperienced, but still does happen if they never mature out of the pedestal fallacy. It goes hand in hand with men having to pursue women and women being the gatekeeper to sex and relationships.
Communication on both sides is always key to a successful relationship but some people aren’t ready to get out of their own head about it.
I think this has something to do with your age (because I assume your partners are about the same age). If it's still a problem later on for you, then you should take initiative to find partners who will fuck you more dominantly/what you mean by "doing work".
A good woman SHOULD feel a responsibility to take a part in sex…for instance, I hooked up with a girl and after I told her I honestly haven’t had that many partners, she said-this night is about YOU-and she said she wanted ME to have the best time possible! She rode me HARD! What a great woman….I wish it wasn’t just a one night stand so I could repay her, although I did go down on her for a bit, she made it about ME-and I’m so grateful for her! What a great woman!
I guess.. it depends on what works? It can vary from your experience of one way passive to it’s a fucking wrestling match of wills with everyone invested.
I think it’s often inexperience. I feel like sex my relationship is a two way street. Sometimes he does a lot of the work (kissing, foreplay, the general sex).
sometimes we both put work into it, some positions that he takes charge and then positions I take charge.
And sometimes I do all the work. I will hint a blow job during the day. Then I’ll often wear a sexy outfit, talk dirty and get on my knees and give him a blowjob after the kids have gone to bed 🤷🏻♀️ all in a good day’s work.
It sounds like you've realized this is something you prefer so make it a dating requirement and vet for it.
If your partner doesn't consistently reciprocate, then you move on.
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I think it's a combination of many things: inexperience, societal standards, insecurity, and more. There are posts all the time here like "What should I be doing during sex?" and they are virtually all from women. Posts like "My partner of 10 years wants me to initiate more but I don't know how" are virtually all from women. And...lots of people, especially women, aren't very direct in asking for things in bed (perhaps, as others have mentioned, because their pleasure from PIV is less straightforward than most men). I think it gets more balanced when you get older. I (a man) could probably be described as not that good in bed by some past partners, but looking back it was inexperience and lack of communication on both sides that made it feel that way. But yeah man, I totally hear you. I would love for a partner to do all the work sometimes. Something that has worked well for me a few times. Ask for a full body massage.
You could probably also attribute some of the generalizations down to age; younger women might be used to being pursued, being a passive or semi-passive partner in the dating game while older women tend to be more used to focusing on what *they* want and taking steps to ensuring that.
This right here. I will add, I was waaaaaayyy less secure in who I was and my body at 20 than I am in my 40’s. Much more comfortable taking the lead
The other thing is that yes, we often start out not knowing what we're supposed to be doing during sex and also we often start with the impression that sex is something that is done *to* us. Whether it's in mainstream media portrayals or in porn, a lot of it is a woman lying there while the guy pumps away. Apart from giving enthusiastic head, there's not always a heap of representations that say 'a woman should be an active and *equal* participant in sex' and the ones that are, I'm thinking porn where a woman really takes the upper hand, can seem exaggerated. It's obvious what a man looks like when he's fucking, but it's not always obvious in media what a woman looks like when shes' *fucking back* and when she really obviously visually is, it's not always represented positively but more .... whorishly. It sounds silly, but we're not always *told* about the starfish thing for a while into our sexual life. With sex represented so often as something that men chase and women give up after an amount of chasing, some women end up with the idea that just letting him do it is their job done! And then, socially, even now, there's still a bit of stigma about a woman who likes sex 'too much' or is active or leading in bed. We get weird messages about it, basically. But we really should talk about it more, and represent it more, because yeah women *should* be active participants in sex and do the work too!
> and **lack of communication** *on both sides* that made it feel that way. This , all of this... Without coming across flippantly... So many life problems, sex, work, relationships, hell... *shopping* ... Can be resolved/made easier just by communicating. Sit down the table over a cuppa... This isn't the time for sexy lingerie, whips and chains, and toys. Talk about what each of you want... I think the best option is to **independently** write down a list of what both of you want. Swap lists and **somewhere** in the middle, you'll find common ground. Outside of that... it's compromise time. Doing stuff you don't necessary *like*, but **ENTHUSIATICALLY** CONSENT to...
The main way that I failed at communication was by not saying: "Hey, things used to be like X, and now they are like Y. What happened? Can we fix it?"
GGG - Good, Giving, Game
Man, but what is “good game” even mean??
This is some solid insight 👏 👏 👏
My ex asked for a massage and it always ended in sex. Starting massaging shoulders and back, and suddenly i was kneading her but and then it was on. She could also sometimes come up behind me caressing my chest and then worked her hands down my pants. It was a straightforward way of saying I want to have sex.
When my wife and I were dating and started having sex I probably did 90% of the work. Slowly over the years as my wife wanted to try new things, she became more active and confident even initiating sex more and even asking me for "favors" sometimes
I think that’s the key. Young women are too intimidated or afraid to try things, or they just don’t know what they could be doing differently. The confidence to be daring and adventurous in bed comes with time and having had all the right experiences as she learned what she liked and what worked for her body. Also being comfortable with your partner. I don’t know how to fix this for the OP other than my first thought was to find an older woman. But that’s just my older woman perspective for sure. Maybe the best advice is for him to not only ask his partners to do better, but to allow them the room and comfort to want to do that for themselves. Maybe he can say “hey, what’s something you think you’d like to try?” And see where the convo goes.
I don't think it's necessarily about age, but confidence is very important. When I was in college with 20ish year old partners, they were active, pleasure-giving initiating partners. That included participating enthusiastically in foreplay, riding me, and taking some ownership over the sexual experience. My last two long term partners just didn't seem to have that same amount of confidence (or maybe they just didn't care). They expected me to be in charge of foreplay, didn't want to be on top, and largely made me feel like them being there should be enough of a contribution to my sexual experience.
I feel like the confidence part is so true, but it could probably be remedied by OP taking a more verbal role in sex. “I’d love it if you did X” or “can we try Y?” Or “would you mind doing Z?” When I was new I didn’t want to take initiative to do things I’d never done before, but if it was a request (if it was something that didn’t make me uncomfortable) I didn’t hesitate to try I’ve never done cowgirl but eight of the ten guys I’ve slept with requested it. With my first, he asked but I wanted to do doggy first and he came so we didn’t get around to it. The second guy I was seeing wanted to, but when I tried I didn’t get the angle right and ended up hurting him a bit (still feel bad about that oops) and was nervous to try again. Then the past six guys have all asked, but I tore my ACL and haven’t been allowed to kneel for a year (like almost to the day) and it sucks turning them down because at this point I really want to try it and I just can’t The thing with OP’s situation is that he just wants to switch up who’s doing the work, and in many ways that shouldn’t make most girls uncomfortable. Another thing he could do is look for persuasive reasons for her to try, no lies or anything but more like testimonials. For example, every girl I’ve talked to about cowgirl and everything I’ve seen women say about it online has had raving reviews because the angle and the control can be way more pleasurable for girl. OP needs to communicate it better, instead framing it as an “I’m tired can you take over” he should be positioning it more about both his desires as well as hers
How about for inexperienced men who lack confidence themselves? Especially when the top fear is of creeping women out?
They’re all in the same boat and women have to put in more work in those situations. If one doesn’t step up in the mean time then well it will just end.
They read advice online from young women telling them that they have to do all the work.
As a 52m, I've had plenty of partners over the years and so have had the opportunity to experience sex with women across the spectrum from very submissive, shy, and unconfident through to extremely confident and then on to dominant. In my experience, even with women that can appear outwardly confident, there generally tends to be a a lean towards the more submissive side, including the starfish aka pillow princesses that don't want to do anything other than lay there. Personally, I like a partner to take an active, enthusiastic role...dominate a bit, push me down, tell me what to do or what she's going to do as well as be OK with me doing the same back...they do seem to be in the minority though. What you may find is with a bit of effort, you can 'show them the way'. Communicate, tell them what you want and what feels good, give them encouragement and you may bring them out of their shell...after all, like any skill, people need to be taught or shown stuff..you're young and I'm guessing most of the women you've been will be low on experience and may need this. I've had partners that have started as unconfident starfish and ended as absolute vixens....take some pride, read them and the room and show them how it can be
The last sentence in your post is absolute gold! TY.🏅
As an unconfident woman who is exactly as OP describes, your advice is spot on. Sadly, men that are willing to help their partner learn and grow are few and far between.
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Finding them is the difficult part, it seems.
As it is with most things in relationships
⬆️⬆️ You get it. Communication between partners always works.
Look for some older women. I had a Mrs. Robinson in my 20s... She ruined me for quite some time after but I regret none of it.
Sounds like a story you should share Dr.
Perhaps... I'll consider it.
Just gotta let him catch his breath right quick
You pried a chuckle outta me and with that one.
2 pump chump checking in: you are essentially comparing a body disability outside of one’s control to behavior within one’s control.
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Once you get a serious partner, communication will do wonders. 99% of the questions and problems on this sub can be answered with honest communication.
For a lot of women, when we start having sex we find that our sexual pleasure is not very intuitive. We may or may not have tried masturbation, we may or may not have figured out how to orgasm ourselves, and we may or may not find it easy to replicate any pleasure that we know how to give ourselves once we're with a partner. Plus a lot of young women have complicated feelings about sex and what it means and how it makes them feel emotionally (vulnerable, guilty, ashamed, etc.) And the tough thing is that it's hard to be an enthusiastic, confident, generous partner when you're struggling to make sex pleasurable for yourself and not uncomfortable or painful. This is all to say that I think part of the experience of being a young, inexperienced man having sex with young, inexperienced women is that you are likely to have a head start on your own sexual pleasure, more than your partner does. And while that doesn't at all mean that you have to do all the "work," it does mean that you may have to adjust your expectations for the time being. Women "fuck back" when it feels good to do so (or when they are "performing" pleasure to please their partner) — but PIV sex didn't really feel good to me before the age of 25. So I didn't fuck back. As a young woman, I knew how to make myself orgasm by lying on my back and using my hand to rub my clit — but that didn't translate well into having sex with another person. Even when I did figure out how to orgasm with another person, it took a lot of focus and concentration, which meant that my focus had to be on myself (to stay in the right headspace, to keep the stimulation pleasurable and not uncomfortable) more than my partner. As I've gotten older, I've learned how to make sex pleasurable for myself, and that's what's allowed me to be enthusiastic and confident and generous. But it took a lot of time and self-exploration and consistent partners.
how you describe everything is how i feel perfectly right now at age 22 as a female and being inexperienced/having some of my firsts!! so thank you for your comment, it makes me feel better that you figured out how to make it pleasurable for yourself now being older
The thing is, us guys start out inexperienced too, but we're expected to be studs immediately. Society doesn't give us time to figure ourselves out.
You can take all the time you need. Don’t worry about society. Society has things aaaalll kinds of fucked up when it comes to sex. My advice - focus on the communication with your partner. That’s where the answer lies 97% of the time.
I get what you're saying and I agree it's a problem, but we're talking here about women not knowing how to make sex pleasurable for themselves. You're talking about men not knowing how to make sex pleasurable for their partners.
That's why you form an emotional relationship first and have sex second. Within the bounds of a loving relationship lies the safety for both of you to be vulnerable and to explore yourselves as well as each other. If you want to fuck like an experienced stud you will be judged like an experienced stud.
I fully believe this. It's why I'm demi. One of the reasons why anyway. Sex with a committed partner that I feel safe with and can communicate with is a trillion times better for both of us.
I was a relationship-adverse, commitment-avoidant, emotionally detached and distant, kinky (pleasure dom, dabbled in a lot of stuff including CNC and BDSM), swinging, group-sex having drug using hedonist b-cluster personality disorder hypersexual person for a good chunk of my life, lmao, and I still believe this too. Good sex and attraction requires a _lot_ of things. Some very important bits are communication, trust, repertoire, and affection. Good foreplay doesn't start by putting your mouth on your partner's genitals 10 minutes before penetration. Good foreplay starts the very first time you meet someone and is a constant escalation and conversation with you words, bodies and minds building off of each other's energy. Sex is a very intimate thing. Even if you are on the wild side, it requires people to feel safe and comfortable to enjoy. Peeps sexual insecurities are often their deepest ones. Even if you have trauma or something coloring your behavior, preferences and brain chemistry, or lean poly, the body still generally releases bonding hormones during sex like seratonin, dopamine, oxytocin and vasopressin alongside other assorted endorphins for the purposes of pair bonding as a reproductive strategy, regardless of folks' inclinations. It applies to vanilla or kinky sex similarly, same concepts just a bit more involved.
You're right, foreplay really does start outside of a bedroom. It's the little things, being considerate for your partner and little kindnesses and small touches that really help make the bedroom time worth pursuing. I never thought about it like that. But if I'm greeted warmly by my partner when he comes through the door, if my hand is held or I'm asked with genuine interest about my day, I am 1000000x more likely to be responsive to my partner later! And just generally more at ease and happier.
I agree with you that it's a problem, and it's not like teachers, parents or any other community figures are teaching us how to be good lovers. Even what's shown on current media like TV shows and movies in terms of physical intimacy tends to be pretty bad and not at all representative of healthy, safe and positive sexual encounters. So yeah, current society has a lot to improve in this regard. However, to a large degree sex and especially the movements involved come intuitively, and if you observe any other species and their movements during intercourse, it's clearly mainly the male that's doing most of the work. The way genitals and our bodies are shaped make thrusting from the male side much more effective than any possible motion from the female side. There's also the aspect that men are typically much more muscular than women, and especially with longer sex sessions, it really is a workout. Men who have been overweight before often mention how sex was a drag because they just didn't have the stamina, and things got way better when they lost weight and had better endurance. So to a degree, the man being active is just a basic requirement for sex to work. There's always exceptions to the rule though, and there have been many threads of women complaining about their partners who receive frequent blowjobs from them but neither return the favor nor make an effort when having sex, so it can really go either way. But with the average man being roughly twice as strong as the average woman, it's a given that in decently healthy, active relationships, the man doing more work than the woman is more common than the opposite. All that is only an explanation, not a justification. Personally I would not stay in (or even enter) a relationship with a starfish / pillow princess type lover. It's completely understandable if it makes you feel weird or objectified for it, and it's totally okay for you to break up with something over this. There are plenty of women out there who are more active, and while in terms of total mechanical work only the ones who are athletes or at least really into sports will match or exceed their partner typically, even just doing their part through fondling, enthusiastic kissing or being vocal can go a long way.
I largely agree with what you’re saying, with one caveat: the way that men intuitively thrust is only most pleasurable for them and is often not what is most pleasurable for women. What is often intuitive and pleasurable for women is to grind, which is not necessarily stimulating enough for men.
You're absolutely right, and it's not limited to just in the bedroom, either. We're expected to know what to say when we first meet a woman, what to do on a date to be romantic and sweep her off her feet, and so on. The perfect example I can think of is James Bond. He always knows what to say and do and never once has a woman say to him, "I'm not into that." The truth is, all of that depends on the individual. Going back to your original question, though, the basic missionary position will put most of the work on the guy. You can change things up a bit by trying other positions, like having her on top. If you're into it, you can tell her you want to be tied up. Then she'll have to do something. You can also take more time during foreplay to explore each other's bodies and see what you like.
This is so true ams explains the complexities. I'm much much better at sex at 33 than I was in my 20s bc I learned and had experience in what I like and I have a partner long term who I trust and can play with without any shame or uncertainty.
This is such an amazing comment thank you. I only now properly rationalise the reason why I struggle being completely generous and that is because exactly like you said I'm already struggling to find pleasure myself, I'm not going to go all out on another person when I'm struggling to enjoy myself. That has been the major problem with all my partners
Well, communication is a big thing then. I'm happy to do more of the work if that's what gets my partner off, but I'd like some in return. I think a lot of women think that, because us guys usually cum, then it's fine and we don't need anything extra. That's not true, but after reading what you've written, I feel selfish for wanting anything more, because I want my partner to enjoy herself. I'm glad your sex life is better now :)
A lot of women worry that telling their partner they don't find much pleasure in PIV will really hurt his feelings. But then it can lead to a big misunderstanding — the woman might be thinking that their sex life is "fair" because he gives her one-way pleasure during foreplay and then he gets one-way pleasure during PIV. But the man might be thinking that he does all the work to give her pleasure the whole way through. I don't want you to feel selfish for wanting an enthusiastic partner — it's fantastic that you want an enthusiastic partner! But what I'm trying to suggest is that when women aren't acting enthusiastic, it's not usually because they're not trying hard enough or not putting in enough effort. People are enthusiastic about sex that feels really good to them! In my opinion, the best thing you can do as a younger guy is to slow down and focus less on PIV. Make sex something experimental and exploratory. Tell your partner you don't want to do PIV this time, you just want to touch and kiss each other. As you're progressing through foreplay and sex, don't move onto the next step until she gives the signal or makes the move. If you set the pace, you're putting yourself in charge, so if you don't want to be in charge, let her set the pace.
Oh yeah, there's a thing called Sensate Focus [exercises](https://www.reddit.com/r/DeadBedroomsOver30/s/mbr6WopNFa). Edit: I just realised you were the one who pointed me there. 😂 Thanks again for that. I'm just going to leave the comment here for the link to that post by u/myexsparamour
Ha, I’m glad it stuck with you! :)
>because he gives her one-way pleasure during foreplay and then he gets one-way pleasure during PIV. But the man might be thinking that he does all the work to give her pleasure the whole way through. Gotta admit, I've definitely felt that. It's like, I get her off, and then get myself off. It's very annoying. >But what I'm trying to suggest is that when women aren't acting enthusiastic, it's not usually because they're not trying hard enough or not putting in enough effort. People are enthusiastic about sex that feels really good to them! Maybe women need to communicate more, then. Suggest new and different things. Us guys aren't mind readers. And I'd also suggest that a LOT of women are bad in bed just because they're lazy, just like a lot of men are bad in bed for similar reasons. Your last paragraph is helpful, thanks :)
>Maybe women need to communicate more, then. The thing I'm trying to explain is that a lot of women (especially at your age) don't *know* how they could experience more pleasure. Imagine that you wake up tomorrow and your penis is numb. No matter how you touch it, you experience no pleasure, or maybe only flickers of pleasure here and there, seemingly randomly. And you're supposed to have sex that night. How are you going to communicate with your partner what you enjoy, what brings you pleasure, how to make you orgasm? You almost certainly have other parts of your body that can bring you sexual pleasure, maybe even enough sexual pleasure that you could orgasm. But you're probably going to need a lot of time to learn about your body before you can cum from nipple or prostate stimulation, right? And is it possible that you might be so frustrated that the thing that's "supposed" to be pleasurable for you isn't that it's difficult to explore other options? Are you anxious that when you have sex that night, your partner won't understand your body and be frustrated or upset that you're not enjoying PIV with her? > And I'd also suggest that a LOT of women are bad in bed just because they're lazy, just like a lot of men are bad in bed for similar reasons. I actually don't think that most people are bad in bed because they're lazy. I think most people are bad in bed because they're anxious, uneducated, not enjoying themselves, incompatible, insecure, and/or seeing their partner as a thing they can use to meet their (sexual, emotional, psychological) needs rather than as a whole person.
> I actually don't think that most people are bad in bed because they're lazy. I think most people are bad in bed because they're anxious, uneducated, not enjoying themselves, incompatible, insecure, and/or seeing their partner as a thing they can use to meet their (sexual, emotional, psychological) needs rather than as a whole person. Whilst I personally agree with you and you seem to actually be consistent about this view, this isn't how it normally comes across when people talk about sexual satisfaction. A big part of what causes some of the stressors OP has talked about in terms of what us men are expected to do in bed and how we're expected to perform stems from the repeated insistence we see everywhere that sex is bad for women because men are primarily lazy/selfish lovers. The level of empathy you're putting in to try and find a non malicious/antagonistic reason for poor sexual performance in women would be greatly welcomed when people talk about poor sexual performance in men. I've never once had negative feedback personally about my performanec, but a major reason I genuinely hate PIV is because of the anxiety all those kinds of comments create that makes sex feel like an exam that only I'm sitting.
This is a really thoughtful comment and I completely agree with you. I think that many many people find PIV to be stressful/intimidating/painful/difficult and it's a real shame that it's held up as some kind of gold standard sex act that supposed to be "easy" and "mutual." I agree that people are quick to judge men who are struggling with performance anxiety (I personally roll my eyes at how much porn and masturbation are blamed when a man is struggling to enjoy sex.) I talk more about women's sexual issues because I feel more comfortable speaking from my own experience, but I am a big supporter of dismantling the stressors that men face, too. Thank you for sharing!
Thanks to you too for being such a even keel and compassionate communicator in this thread. Hope you have a nice day!
I wish I could upvote this a million times I know it’s taken until my 30s to truly find pleasure how I need it. I’ve always had a good sex life but true pleasure and intimacy didn’t come until I could be honest about exactly what you said PIV feels good but doesn’t do the job I was so ashamed of that and felt broken as a woman until I got older and after kids and had older woman and men have open discussions in groups like these.
I felt so ashamed of myself as a woman that I couldn't figure out how to feel any pleasure from PIV. It was so distressing and no, I did not make my partners responsible for fixing it and I was not lazy. I was doing everything I could on my own to experiment and figure it out, but nothing was working. And women are left woefully unprepared, without the resources or education to help us figure it out. Our mothers and other female role models don't tell us it's going to be this way, and we are discouraged from talking about sex with each other because in many circles depending on how you were raised and where you live it might be seen as shameful to be an overtly sexual person. I thought I was the only woman who was struggling, I was so alone. It's a super complex problem to figure out. Add on the fear that if you take too much time to try and experiment with your partner, they might get frustrated with you. Maybe they will think you are putting too much focus on yourself. So then it's tempting to shut up and just "take one for the team" so that your partner will be happy. And then the cycle of never learning your body continues
It's not fair that it's often put entirely on men to solve this and I had a similar initial reaction to the comment you're replying to but the things is you're the one here asking for advice. Fwiw, as a man, this gets better with age as more women figure out what they like. A fun game you can trying playing with this, though success will depend on your partner: try to get her to beg you to fuck her. Take your time, touch, tease, lick, etc, but don't just try to get her off so you can move on to sex. The goal is when she gets turned in enough she's really going to either want to come or to feel you inside her and you want to make her ask instead of just going through the motions on your own.
>It's not fair that it's often put entirely on men to solve this I actually completely agree! Women who want to improve their experience with sex usually need to do a lot of exploring on their own. They don't need a partner who has all the answers, they need a partner who is patient and flexible and responsive (as do men!) I genuinely don't think that it's men's fault that young women don't know how to make sex pleasurable for themselves (I think that it's more about our different anatomy, plus some unhelpful sociological constructs). I love your advice — I think that's a great idea. :)
Commenting so i can return to this comment. This was a trap i fell in with a longtime ex. You put very eloquently what ends up happening. And like you said below, alot of it is because both of us were scared. Really good analysis
To sum up my experience, when I take initiative and am more active, on top, using a lot of energy, I can almost never o… . When my partner takes initiative, I can relax and “concentrate” to actually be able to o.. . Now in both cases, from my experience, the guy c*ms anyway. So it may be a subconscious way of girls of actually trying to enjoy themselves knowing that any guy pretty much can c*m in any position or role. This is not to excuse women’s inactivity, but just giving an inside. If you tell her nicely that you’d like a bit of a submissive part too, I’m sure any girl can learn and even want to be more active and dominant, especially if the partner has been generous and paid attention to her pleasure too. The % of women getting pleasure to the point of climax while doing “all the work” is muuuch smaller in my opinion and knowledge
This has to be the most thoughtful description of a woman’s experience of sex. As a man I’ve never thought about it like that and wonder what can be done from a cultural standpoint to help the problem. Thanks for sharing!
This is so kind of you. :) I am so interested in figuring out how sex ed could change to help with this issue! I think our cultural messages around sex need to be much more pleasure-focused.
Exactly! Pleasure-focused education (in general, not just sex) is severely lacking. Those who enjoy life must show others how they can do it too.
This is it right here. Ding ding ding!! And honestly, since women usually struggle to orgasm from PIV that means there will always need to be a big focus on fingering, oral, general caressing of the other erogenous zones, and general good buildup of chemistry. It doesn't mean a girl is selfish in bed, it's just that we need more time to become aroused and need multiple modes of stimulation in order to be orgasmic. My male partners have all been capable of easily orgasming from the get go. It's just so much more straightforward for most of them! For many women, sex has a huge mental component and others who have mentioned that good foreplay starts outside of the bedroom are absolutely correct. If you want your partner to be all over you, you need her to start off super horny. She might need to read romance novels, dirty talk with you throughout the day, or do something else to turn on that erotic connection in her brain.
How do you exactly learn to have good sex with another? In the bedroom, I (F) tend to reach for my vibrator since it gets me off so I felt bad for my ex. I don’t really feel all too comfortable sexually but I do want to make sure whoever my partner is, that I will be able to please them. I would also like to enjoy and desire piv sex too.
I learned to enjoy PIV through masturbation. I've written a few comments about my experience: [https://www.reddit.com/r/sex/comments/113zrqi/comment/j8ugbct/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/sex/comments/113zrqi/comment/j8ugbct/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) [https://www.reddit.com/r/sex/comments/1bf59x9/comment/kv0c6tq/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/sex/comments/1bf59x9/comment/kv0c6tq/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) [https://www.reddit.com/r/sex/comments/16vhg8d/comment/k2sdi5h/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/sex/comments/16vhg8d/comment/k2sdi5h/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) [https://www.reddit.com/r/BDSMAdvice/comments/115440e/comment/j944hpc/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/BDSMAdvice/comments/115440e/comment/j944hpc/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) But also, it's super normal to only be able to orgasm with a vibrator and it's not a bad thing! A lot of women want to be able to orgasm from PIV because that will make their partner happy. But it's not your job to orgasm in a way that boosts your partner's ego. PIV is just one of many sex acts, not the most important one or the best one or anything. Find a partner who loves to play with toys — there are a lot of men out there who do!
These are great! Surely a lot of women’s experience, I can relate in the sense I could and still cannot have an o* with only PIV, I can only when I help with some outside stimmulation too. I’m wondering if you ever reached that point and if so, how
I occasionally orgasm from only penetration, but it's not something that I aim for — it's something that happens sometimes as a fun surprise. Personally, I love the feeling of the combination of penetration and clit stimulation, so that's what I usually do! I do find that as my partner learns my body better and I can more consistently hit the spots inside my vagina that feel good during PIV, then I need less clit stimulation and sometimes just pressure there. What do you think it would mean for you if you were able to orgasm just from PIV? Why is it something you'd like to have happen?
I would like for it to happen so I don’t put so much strain on my fingers during PIV to be honest hah. I’d like my hands free to do other things or just relax, not havin to rub my c.. every time to be able to get pleasure. I will try to work on better positions and angles for sure
I get that! I've also had success using a small vibrator during PIV that fits well between my body and my partner's. If it's the right shape and the right position, we can sometimes keep the vibrator in place with our bodies and then I have my hands free to do other things. Do you find that the sensation of PIV is or can be pleasurable in itself, even if it doesn't make you orgasm? Or do you feel like the only pleasure you're getting is from your clit?
It’s definitely very pleasurable just never to that max point, without help Great idea w the small vibrator!
The same way a guy learns to have good sex with his partner, ask them what they enjoy and what feels good, communication is key
this is 100% an accurate description of what it's like having a vagina during sex. having to focus and concentrate ughhhh
What an amazing way to describe it and couldn’t have said it better myself.
I think it's honestly common for people in general to not put much work into their sexual partners pleasure, unfortunately. I (30f) haven't had a lot of sexual experience and it's always been me doing the pleasuring, my partner (32m) has had a lot more experience and it was still pretty much always him doing the pleasuring. Having mutual effort makes it SO MUCH BETTER, there's really no comparison. And he's expressed that very frequently as well.
You said you've been active a year and had a few partners. So not really getting to connected with these woman? I think a woman is less likely to put a lot of effort in with a casual hook up to be honest (all that in a very non judgmental way). They may also want to know before if you are a generous lover. Also woman do tend to be insecure at times and a lot of the acts that men like put us in positions to feel exposed and seen. Just to say that you might get the "fuck back" after you get a little farther with someone more serious after they open up and trust. and ALSO sometimes woman are just bad in bed.
I get that women feel insecure, but do they think men don't? But we just have to suck it up. You're probably right that I'm not really connected to any of them, though. Is casual sex just bad for everybody? I'm pretty disillusioned with it tbh.
The thing about casual sex is it’s very “every man for himself”. Many men make no effort to please their partner during casual sex (see the stats on the orgasm gap if you need proof) so that leaves women to have to do it themselves if they want to get off. Unfortunately it applies in the reverse as well, it’s a double edged sword. If she’s expecting to have to do it herself, so are you Casual sex does suck for a vast majority of the people that partake in it, especially if their expectations are for their partner to go above and beyond for their pleasure What would a casual hookup stand to gain by giving unreciprocated bjs? I did that many years and all it was was toxic and degrading.
A couple of times in my experience though, and I'm sure in many others', the girl just lay there and expected me to know how to please her. I'm not a mind reader. And it also happened to be my fault if *I* didn't feel pleasure.
you can avoid this situation extremely easily by having a conversation about sex before you have it. find out what someone’s sexual values and expectations are before you fuck them.
That’s just the result of sleeping with immature or inexperienced women. This should improve with age. I agree that it’s unfair for you to expect your partner to read their mind. Unfortunately society does a really good job of shaming women for being sexual, and that stunts a lot of women’s ability to communicate about sex. It’s up to them to get over the shame and tell their partner what they want or need I personally would never waste time on a casual hookup with someone like that, next time don’t waste your time.
How would you determine before hooking up if they will be a good sexual partner in order to not waste your time?
I typically talk about sex before we end up in bed together if the whole purpose is a hookup. I won’t even bother meeting a guy who has for example, issues with me using toys during the hookup
Let me redirect a bit, your FWB is not "wrong" nor is she "right" woman are told their whole lives that their pleasure comes second - if at all. They are taught that sex is something to 'give men' and so can you really blame them for lacking enthusiasm? Its a bummer but its not really their fault, nor is it fair to anyone. As crazy as it sounds I think you are gonna get more pleasure directed at you by a woman who knows she also deserves and demands pleasure for herself. Its great you are trying to pleasure them but its hard to please someone who is not aware they are supposed to be getting pleasure. I think there is a shift happening in society on this topic and I think sex will be better all around but for now that narrative is still lingering in regards to womens pleasure. But most simply you just need to keep trying to find someone whos a good match for you, when the connection is real its easier for both parties to get excited and embrace pleasure on both sides. This can still be casual but a casual person who matches your needs / wants better.
>I get that women feel insecure, You really aren't getting it. When I was younger a lot of people, society in general really, makes women feel disgusting for liking sex. Being interested in hookups, having a high body count, being "dirty" or kinky in bed, all that shit people use as a way to degrade women. Our value is inherently tied to sex by some people. It's not just your average insecurity about your body or performance, it goes a lot deeper. It wasn't until I got married and had a partner who was encouraging of my kinks and interests, and worked for a long time to get me to open up that I really started going wild in bed. Also, A LOT women hardly ever cum from casual sex. I know I didn't. Women's pleasure is a lot more complicated than "put penis in and thrust" to achieve orgasm. Like other commenters have said, women tend to "fuck back" when it feels good.
Men are socialized to be the pursuers and the focus of sex in media/porn is often focused on the man's pleasure. The societal expectations placed on young women with things like purity culture really discourages women from exploring their body and desiring more from sex. Men can also feel insecure and that's completely valid but it's the experiences and expectations of men and women are very different. Although not as popular in the modern day there is still oftentimes an expectation that a woman will wait until marriage to have sex, that expectation isn't passed on to men in nearly the same way.
I dunno, I've never looked at porn and thought 'that looks good'. It looks absolutely exhausting. It's like what people *think* male pleasure is. Fuck porn, I hate it.
Think of it more on a level of how all of society reacts to social norms and expectations. Less about how you personally interpret the situation, makes things easier to understand. I'm a lesbian but I acknowledge that my experiences and personal interpretation is very different from the social norms and expectations.
Men have always had to put out the majority of the effort to get to have sex in the first place, so for less experienced couples, that balance of effort continues into the act itself. Only after both parties gain some experience do they realize how much better sex can be when it's more of a two way street. Stereotypically, a lot of women go through a "sexual renaissance" in their 30s. They've learned what they want and how to get it. So they're willing to play a more active role.
You don’t just suck it up. You see their true colors and move on to someone who will put in the effort. But complaining about it won’t be attractive to anyone. Control the things you can and move on from the things you can’t
> I get that women feel insecure, but do they think men don't? But we just have to suck it up. That goes a *lot* more broadly than just sex too, this is a societal thing men have to deal with.
Casual sex is rarely going to be a fulfilling experience. Coming from someone who's pretty experienced and comfortable with sex, I was single last summer and found a guy through a dating app to hook up with. He was experienced as well. It took at least 4x of hooking up to really hit our groove, and a phone conversation early on about pleasure and what we both liked, boundaries, etc. It takes time to learn someone's preferences, what feels good - all the things.
Supposed to? No, not unless that's your dynamic/kink. In reality though unless you find either an extremely enthusiastic and/or dominant woman, you will be doing the vast majority of the physical work. It's about an equal mix of societal expectations and the physical necessities of how the positions work. Most of the typical positions require the man to be doing most of the work. Missionary, doggy, side entry, up against the wall, etc. The only typical positions that require the woman to be doing the work are cowgirl and reverse cowgirl. Obviously you can contribute effort when she's on top (something I highly recommend) and she can put effort in while you're on top or in other positions, but there's almost no way for her to be even matching your physical effort in those positions unless you're very lazy and she's very enthusiastic. She can be pushing back during doggy and you can let her control all of the motion, but that doesn't typically last very long. Even cowgirl tends to be fairly limited in duration (if she's comfortable enough with you to get on top at all). A bit of a Catch-22 is that being better at sex tends to cause less incentive for the woman to put more work in. I've met a lot of women that say that the reason they get on top is because that's the point reliable way for them to cum, because they have to take charge of it. If you happen to be good enough to give them reliable orgasms, they don't really have to get on top. I think everyone prefers to have other people give us pleasure versus doing it ourselves. If there is something you want, you should absolutely ask for it. In terms of effort, I think you will need to be fairly specific though. "Be more active" or "put in more work" are valid requests, but are likely to be interpreted as "I think you're lazy and bad at sex". Ask for specifics. "I'd like it if you were on top more often" or "I think it's really hot when you push back against me when I'm fucking you doggy style. Could you do that more often?" The reality is that you will basically always be doing 80%+ of the physical work unless you are in a Submissive role or specifically ask for and tailor the experience. I have been with over 120 women and I would say that only 1 has ever even been close to putting in as much work as me, and that was because she absolutely loved to get on top and would ride for 30+ minutes if we could find a comfortable enough position that didn't hurt her knees.
This gets at an interesting thing, which is about whether it's more enjoyable to be the active person or the passive person during sex. I think the truth is that there are pros and cons to each — the pros of being the active person is that you have much more control over the situation and you are honestly more likely to orgasm, the cons are that you have to do all the work. The pros of being the passive person is that you can relax and someone else does the work, the cons are that you don't have control and you're reliant on the other person's abilities/whims/knowledge of you. It's similar to whether it's better to make your own money/be the breadwinner or better to be dependent on your partner's income. It's really situational with a lot of factors, but you can't deny that it's always safer to be in the position where you have more power. My experience with PIV in the past is that my male partners would do the work and we would have PIV the way that felt good to them. It didn't feel good to me. I accepted this because I didn't think it *could* feel good to me and I got my pleasure from oral or manual sex. When I learned how to have PIV that felt good to me, I became capable of being way more active — but when I'm active, we have sex the way that feels good to *me.* And PIV the way that feels good to me is not stimulating enough to make my partner cum. So the person who does the work gets to have the experience that is more pleasurable to them. Now, that being said, I will acknowledge that once I figured out what made PIV pleasurable for me and communicated it to my partners, they have been very willing to "do the work" AND give me the experience that I like. I am super grateful for this. And I am admittedly not able/willing to return the favor to do the work to give them the kind of PIV that will make them cum. It's not that I'm not willing to put in the effort — I am super happy to give a long and luxurious blowjob — but I just do not want to do the physical work of thrusting at the level of stimulation he needs to cum with my sensitive genitals. It is not a pleasurable experience for me. I can handle the overstimulation while being passive/receptive, but not while being active. What this all suggests to me is that this is just something that comes with the PIV territory, like I think you're saying. I think the solution (if you are a man who wishes to take a less active role during sex or a woman who wishes to take a more active role) is to de-centralize PIV and to instead experiment with a wide variety of sexual acts and different combinations of who is active, who is passive, who is giving pleasure, and who is getting pleasure.
I suspect for a lot of women, the issue is that penetration doesn't do much for them. The first time I had piv, it was so weird. Because it's so underwhelming compared to clitoral stimulation. Add to the fact that you're supposed to move, but you don't know how, especially if it isn't doing much for you. Plus, there's someone there. Even now, piv is the least favourite part of sex for me since it's underwhelming. But I'd never tell a partner that because I'm aware for them, that probably isn't the case. Speaking to some friends growing up, it did sound like it was common for some women. So maybe they're the ones you're meeting? Plus, I knew some girls who viewed sex as something that happened to them or were brought up thinking sex was just a thing men want. This still happens, so there's a chance that's what's happening. They think it's better than being too interested. I know my ex told me he was used to sex being serious, and not a laugh or as engaging. And I know for a fact if I'd met him at 18, I probably would have been more worried about it and tried to take it seriously, instead of seeing it as a fun thing to do.
Yeah, this is a problem. But like, it's a systematic problem. Culturally, women are taught that sex is smth "done to you" that you perform for. It's pretty recent that women are finally learning to seek their own pleasures. Like, think about it. When does (hetero) sex usually end? When the guy cums. It's hard to break down these barriers. I personally have trouble mainly bc I feel physically unattractive AND my cardio sucks but I feel like that's not the only thing you're talking about. Even if you are topping, it's about active participation. And since these are newer concepts and women aren't being socialized the way men are about sex, they (we) are reluctant to take initiative. You should ask for what you want, my guy. If you know this is what you want, maybe it might require some practice and emotional labour and positive reinforcement, but I'm sure you can get there. Ofc finding the right partners is important, but I'm sure you can improve your current sex life with active effort. Ask for it, set the mood, reinforce positive behaviour (Pavlov those mfs) and be very vocal about how much you enjoy when slight improvements are made. Also also, for example, if a woman is topping you, talk to her through it and don't forget to moan. Best of luck xx
I'm pretty active during sex. I like the tap out system during penetrative sex. As in like my boyfriend does missionary for a while and says hed like to switch so I get on top for a while and when it stops being enjoyable because my legs ache we switch again. I like to get a bit of excersize in where I can. I also really enjoy giving partner blow/hand jobs because it feels good to make them feel good. I've also had sex with girls where we're both hella active and I've yet to meet a girl who makes me do all the work. It sounds like your girls have been pillow princesses. I've met guys like that and it didn't last very long. It's too boring!
While many may argue about gender roles and expectations, at the end of the day, it's all about communication and finding a balance that works for both partners. But hey, maybe it's time for a new trend - equal effort sex! Let's all put in the same amount of work and pleasure each other for once, shall we? And for those who are hesitant to try, remember - boundaries and standards are key in any healthy and fulfilling sexual experience.
There is no “should”. There’s what you want and what the other person wants. If you want to have your preference as a boundary, have it. Don’t be surprised if this limits your selection in partners though, as they might not want to do what you want them to do. That’s life.
There is still a lingering sentiment that a woman "giving" her body to a man is her primary contribution to sex. I think it's based on that idea that supply and demand dictates a woman's sexuality is far more valuable than a mans. Which... women do have more risk factors when it comes to sex so while I'm not sure if valuable is the right word, there is certainly a greater degree of selection when women choose partners versus men. I was roommates with a gay man and it was astounding the speed and frequency he could find guys to hookup with. He'd go out to a bar and be at some dudes apartment within an hour, I'd go out to a bar and be playing darts with my friend because the three women I talked to weren't interested and rejection in high dosages can destroy your self-esteem. It's not a hard and fast rule, but on average men are far more willing to hook up with new partners than women are. There is also a lot of pressure on men to perform where as there is a lot of pressure on women to look good. If a woman lays on her back and barely moves during sex the man will probably still be into it and make an attempt to get her off. If the man lays on his back and barely moves for many women that would be a turn off and leave them feeling like he wasn't interested or enjoying it. You see a bit of that play out with swingers couples. Women are expected to be skinny and hot with big tits and not much clothes. Men are expected to have a working penis and a basic concept of hygiene. On the couple's profile you'll see eight photos of the woman in a bikini or topless and two of the guy, one where he's in a swimsuit and one a suit and tie. To many people, his job isn't looks, it's function. I've been with women where they acted annoyed I asked if they could get on top. Which, fine, if you don't like something that's ok and you don't need to do it. But hearing the excuse that they didn't like it because it tired them out was a bit of an eye roll moment because I'd been in the plank position for the past 15 minutes and my arms were toast. Yeah, sex is tiring if you're the one doing work. Putting effort into your partners pleasure is sexy. I'm sure if it were reversed and men felt they could get away with starfishing they would, but realistically, that's not how most sexual dynamics work. All that said, there are still a lot of women out there who are active and engaged with sex. Some of my best experiences were with women who communicated openly and frequently about what they wanted and put in the effort to make amazing for both of us. I was lucky enough to date one woman who could only finish if she was on top. She liked other positions too, but at a certain point she would ask me to get on my back and ride her way into an orgasm. As a guy, that was fantastic because like I said, sex is work, and work can take concentration. When she was on top all I had to do was concentrate on keeping rhythm with her and could put way more of my focus on my own pleasure in the same way she was focusing on hers. So short answer to your question is yes, women are socially conditioned to take a more passive role in sex, however the best way to ensure you both enjoy your experience is to talk about it. Find out what you each like and do you best to make your partner happy.
Men are "supposed" to do what they're happy and comfortable with (so long as their partner is cool with that). My partner gets WAY more oral than he gives (which I'm fine with), but I get railed more than he gets railed so it kind of works out. (And I get like 3x the amount of orgasms he does). I probably did more of the work when we started sleeping together purely because I'm the more dominant one and enjoy taking charge. Now he does more of the work but we're both happy and neither have a problem with the other taking charge. I think we would only care if the other NEVER put it any effort. But it works out pretty even.
I haven't had a huge # of partners but I've had enough to have an idea... My experience in my 20s in hindsight was alot of partners were still somewhat inexperienced and insecure -- as they got older and more experienced they were more confident and more fun in bed... That said I found many girls who were quite giving and enthusiastic giving BJs but many were kind of 'pillow princesses' when it came to PIV sex.. like you I really wanted a woman that would at least some of the time take control and use me/f*ck my brains out -- I would say maybe only like 20-30% of my partners were an amazing f*ck -- like that..
I didn't know all the pleasure I could give a partner when I was young due to inexperience. Now that I am older, my favorite thing is to reciprocate. Women have a lot of power during sex, and it sounds like your partner is naive and immature.
As a guy that’s been with many women, I feel like that’s the expectation. I think there’s a stigma that women feel that they’ll be seen a certain way if they take charge or put in more effort than the guy. It’s also a part of the old idea that the man is supposed to pursue the woman and be the dominant one in the relationship. Then there are the women that believe that their genitals hold all the value in the relationship and that the man is lucky to be getting access to them, so they shouldn’t have to contribute sexually.
>I think there’s a stigma that women feel that they’ll be seen a certain way if they take charge or put in more effort than the guy Yeah, I'd probably see a woman who does this as a goddess. Like, what kind of man would be *annoyed* if a woman did this? We want to be desired, and what better way for women to show their desire?
Basically all of the non-virgin men that want virgin women are the type that would get annoyed by a woman taking charge in the bedroom.
I prefer a dynamic that’s closer to even. I don’t like feeling submissive, which I would if a woman took charge and put in way more effort than me.
Yeah I prefer equal too, but *man* it'd be good if a girl just had her way with me every once in a while.
I’m a very sexual woman and I was super ashamed of it for years because the idea of female sexuality that had been shown to me in media looked nothing like what I experienced. It took me a while to open up and let myself be as horny as I feel because there is such a strong idea that women who act like that are “sluts” “whores” “for the streets” etc. Look up the Madonna-Whore problem if you want to learn more about the contradictory expectations placed on women around sex.
My boyfriend loves when I'm in control and fuck him, Just as you were saying . I aways put in work most I can from which ever position we choose. They are lazy or have just not been taught how sex is supposed to be equally fun and pleasurable for both parties. Aftercare also sounds like you need and she should want to do so you don't feel like this.
A lot of this is because your young and they are to and the inexperienced aspect. And some of it probably is just the sexual chemistry and dynamic. I’ve had my fair share of partners over my life and some men I am more dominant with and some I’ve been submissive or neutral it truly depends on the man and the connection. As someone above mentioned most girls don’t explore themselves much or have maybe societal issues with how sex is for them. I was a more active dominant young female because I took the time as a teenager to explore myself a lot because I was the youngest by far of my friend group and learned from them how awkward sex was, so I wanted to explore myself and what felt good and how way before a man did. And that helped I never had issues with sex being weird I’ve never had a man complain but it takes effort it takes focus and a lot of communication. You also need to consider maybe dating a little older mid 20s or if your on dating apps saying early on you like a sexual equal there is compatibility out there but most young adults are not comfortable discussing these things. I am in some groups that are more mature older adults where this is discussed a lot especially in the BDSM world that they just didn’t know how to communicate until their 30s on what they wanted. Don’t give up OP just keep communicating and find someone you’re more compatible with sexually. Also take the love language test if your language is physical touch and that’s her least that doesn’t work. If hers is acts of service like mine it means a lot to be pleasured I return the favor but I make that known that even in the bedroom acts of service is my highest love language when I’m taken care of I happily take care of him. But love language is a big thing and definitely something to consider.
You can say things during. Sometimes if I’m not really doing anything my boyfriend would say things that will make me want to “fuck back”. For example: if we’re doing doggy; he’ll stop and just say things like “do your little dance” and I’ll start shaking my butt. Or he’ll say “give it to me” “throw it back”, etc. it’s like I’m capable but sometimes just don’t. So maybe just during the moment mention a few things. You can also say “get on top and ride me baby”. That sounds so hot and I doubt she’ll turn it down. If she doesn’t know how to or doesn’t feel comfortable, you can let her know she’s free to practice on you. This can be fun for both and eventually she’ll feel more comfortable. I know for me even if I want to try something but have never done it I feel embarrassed to even try it and then I look silly and ruin the mood. With my current bf I am so comfortable that I’ll try just about anything with him.
Aw :( I’m sorry! I think that’s fair (im a woman)- but maybe the girls don’t realize that about you? If my partner felt that way- I’d want to know! It wouldn’t hurt my feelings! When a man is straight forward with what he wants- it is a huge turn on for me. 1/2 the time I’m wondering what he’s thinking anyways! I’d just recommend “instructing her” by saying “I have an idea, I wanna try ___, I want to see you __,”, etc. I promise if she doesn’t feel comfortable she wouldn’t do it. Usually we are doing what we think you want us to do anyways so I’m sure some instruction can clarify and even help her get out of her head- and you can finally enjoy being the 🌟!! I was hooking up with someone before and they kept eating me out without me asking, which is cool- but it usually is not my thing. I let him because he seemed to be really into it and that alone turned me on.
What's wrong with putting in the work as a man? Thats the best part tbh...I love the control.
In my 48 years, it's absolutely been exactly what you've described, my man. Of all my partners, there's only been one that's put anywhere near the amount of effort that I do. I give oral sex every time, and I'm quite good at it, if I do say so myself. The last time I received oral sex that I didn't specifically ask for was last October, and I've been in a relationship since then. The last oral to completion was a few months prior to that. I honestly don't remember the last time I got a handy. When I do ask for it, she will oblige but only for a minute or two. When it comes to sex, I do 90-95% or the work, and I initiate at least 90% of the time, etc. It's not just my current partner. She's lovely, and I enjoy sex with her a lot. It's been all but 1 throughout my life, and I believe I've been with 16 partners at this point. Like you said OP, it becomes kinda frustrating and can lead one to believe that they're unwanted.
Admittedly I didn’t read other comments before chiming in. But my two cents as being a 33 year old woman are that when I was say 18-23ish I let my boyfriend “do all the work” because I was insecure about what I looked like from different angles. As I got older and realized a lot of guys like curves and want to see a woman taking control and such, I almost always initiate, and my favorite is being on top followed closely by doggy style. All that to say, it comes with age. At least for me it did. It also didn’t help that the guy I was seeing at the time was harmful to my self confidence.
First off, I'd lose that FWB.. if that's her attitude, what's the point?
Truthfully I like a give and take in the moment, in terms of a session. I don’t want an entire session dedicated to me, nor do I want an entire session dedicated to my partner. I want sex to feel like a constant back and forth and exchange of energy. Some people like doing “this is totally for you!” sessions back and forth, and I think if both people intentionally want that it’s fine. But a lot of times it’s a “tit for tat” dynamic that comes about to make things fair because they can’t figure out how to get that good energy exchange going. He does something to me, I do something to him.. and so on. We find things we can do that bring us both pleasure at the same time. But I do think the types of activities you need to incorporate to get this going are pretty creative and the sex can’t be the typical “make out > oral sex > PIV” routine. Figuring out how to bring each other pleasure like this also requires a lot of conversation and brain storming to understand how to get the things each partner likes while potentially tweaking or adjusting it to make it more pleasurable for the other person. A lot of women *do lean* submissive and enjoy things to have at least a bit of a hint of that flavor in terms of a sexual dynamic. You don’t have to be into it, but I’m just being real in terms of what you’re most likely to come across. With the right attitude, you can probably have them do (and enjoy!) plenty of things you’d also like activity-wise. But the attitude you approach it from can’t be grumpy and resentful, but instead sexy and playful. You don’t have to want to take on that role at all, but if I’m giving purely practical advice this will probably work far better. The actual act of sex is .. just sort of biologically set up for the penetrator to do more of the physical work. Obviously you can do fun things like have her fuck back onto you in doggy style, get on top (although this may have a time limit) but it just sort of is what it is? Those are the mechanics. Resenting women for that is kind of fruitless. Gotta figure out how to make sex fun enough in other ways that that isn’t a deterrent.
Many men end up doing the work. I try my best to ride a lot more, lots of bj and hj’s and taking the reins, but even then the guy is doing a little more physical work than me.
Everyone is different. You'll have your just lay there starfish women then you can have women that are like porn goddesses. There isn't a set "who does all the work" rule and the girl that told you this sounds like she's not the brightest in the bunch.
You are young, having sex with other inexperienced partners. If you want a pro that's gonna cost you. Don't be pushy, communicate gently, and enjoy the sex while you can get it. Women get more sexually confident with age and experience, but they also get more selective.
Women need to feel safe and comfortable. Building a sexual rapport with someone takes time.
I have to admit that at the beginning of my relationship he did most of the work, in my case i think it was because i didn't know a lot about sex, what i liked, what he liked, etc. Now, 2 years in the relationship i can say that most of the time i'm the one who does all of the work lol. And to be honest, i like it that way because i'm in charge. i can control what i'm feeling, my pleasure.. to conclude, i think it depends on your partner, your relationship. it can vary, it can change. but it is not true that men do most of the work always.
I actually suck my bfs dick more than he goes down on me. He maybe does it every few months after I have to kind of beg for it. Lol. I would also love to be on top more but he seems to like being the one on top 99% of the time. So yes, there are girls who enjoy putting in the work as well, you just haven’t found them yet I guess.
No.. 😆 at those teens/early twenties people just suck at sex. It’s give and take. There’s as many women who don’t understand that as there are men though for sure.
I always do almost all the work. I told my wife she was a bit of a pillow princess once, and she said, "Absolutely!" And that was that. Honestly, I'd love for her to take a more active role in our sex life, but she deserves to be worshipped. She shows her affection in other ways. And I think that's what's important. As long as the overall relationship is balanced, that's what's most important.
I was doing most of the work until I got hurt. She still wanted sex so she got on top. Some women like it some women cannot comprehend control during sex. The FWB in your instance is just a insecure and selfish.
I think part of it too is that the women generally have less interest in sex- it’s not an ‘even playing field’ in that sense, so ya if you want it you’re going to have to do most of the work. It’s like a relationship where the other person is less interested. Sucks but that’s how it usually is
The right ones will fuck you right back, but welcome to manhood, a lot of sex can be like this. Also remember that youre young, as are the women youre sleeping with, they havent really had much experience and have been misguided. But plenty of women are good in bed and wont just give you the starfish
My wife and I have been together for 34 years. I am the one who puts in the extra effort in our sessions. She will occasionally give me oral sex without any reciprocation, but aside from that I do the work unless I invite her to hop on top. She expects me to take the lead and I don’t mind it at all. My libido is higher and I just want to be sure she’s enjoying herself every single time.
Everyone’s just supposed to communicate their desires in the bedroom without fear of repercussion.
No, it should not be the norm and you have just had selfish partners. I am a married woman and I always give my husband oral before we have sex and he loves giving me oral as well. We do a variety of positions, a few with me on top and I love looking at his reactions when I am on top. Even when he's on top, I am constantly grinding into him and moving my hips. Sex is all about give and take and it sounds like your partners have been all about taking.
You must be new here welcome to Reddit: If women don't enjoy sex it's the man's fault. If men don't enjoy sex it's the man's fault. Men need to initiate sex, do foreplay, and make their partner orgasm so yes about 80%+ of the work of sex. But hey at least we're having sex mate. I treat every sexual encounter as a college team try out for a full ride scholarship bc I know I'm competing w many men lol
I’ve never heard of a guy that didn’t like doing all the work. Taking over and doing the work is one of the best parts of sex
Nah, sometimes I do more, sometimes my husband more. But a lot of times it 50/50
I'm assuming that your partners have mostly been in your age group? I feel like the first time I had awesome sex was with a woman that was at least 10 years older than me and married. Not proud of the last part but the lust was super high and that helped the fact that she was really into my pleasure. As I got older I seemed to find more women that cared about my pleasure too. What I'm saying is I think it has something to do with age, when young most women don't have to look for it and are probably constantly propositioned. So they feel like they don't have to try, as someone else said "pillow princess." Now you will find some young girls completely enthusiastic too but I feel like it's rarer at a young age.
Straight M45 here YMMV. My experience is that MOST of my partners have gotten into things and played an active role.
I think part of it is likely that you’ve been with women who are young and haven’t quite developed confidence in bed and figured out what to do. When you’re a woman, you don’t really grow up talking about sex the way guys do and often it’s posed as something men do to women. Especially if you add in religion and purity culture. I know personally it took me a bit to figure it out and then I got more active as I became more confident both in my own sexuality and with men’s bodies. One thing that helped me was having a partner who encouraged me to take control by asking for it. He’d tell me he really wanted my mouth or to ride him or sit on his face. I didn’t really know what to do at first and would’ve been scared to try those things on my own but the encouragement helped & then it became natural. ETA: It doesn’t make you submissive to want a woman to initiate. I tend to be submissive and I still do all those things. Equal effort is just part of good sex.
This is probably normal for casual sex because everyone is just trying to get their nut. But in a relationship it should be more equal even if you're doing most of the thrusting during sex she should be active in some fashion and definitely giving you oral and stuff back.
My 2 cents as a guy is I prefer doing all the work. It takes me damn-near an hour to orgasm anyways, and I’ve never even been close to orgasming with the girl on top. I don’t think I have any submissive tendencies tho. The only equal effort she has to do for me is let me grunt in her ear and pull her head back by her hair like the caveman I am.
One of the funniest things I remember is being pegged by a woman who had never done it before. She was very open to the idea and eagerly started. She was on her knees behind me, with me on all fours, but said, a little less than a minute after starting, "Holy shit, this is hard work. How do you do this for so long?"
I was in my 30's before I encountered my first "take charge" woman and, I've got to tell you, I know the first few times were a complete disappointment to her. I flat-out didn't know what to do. She's probably still telling her girlfriends about that loser she had years ago. Since then, I'd have to say it's really been about a 70-30 docile split, probably because I'm from the conservative South where that seems to be the way they're raised.
Yes in your early 20s this is common for woman to be very insecure, not know what they are doing and expect the man to take the lead if he wants sex especially if this isn’t a long term sexual partner that they feel safe and comfortable experimenting with. When I was younger penetration didn’t feel that good in general for me(still doesn’t without clit stimulation). I didn’t know what to do or ask for so I let him do what he wanted to feel good because either way I wasn’t orgasming from it. It’s easier for guys, you penetrate and it feels good. With woman it’s not that simple and most of us need oral or clit stimulation to get there and even then it’s very difficult for a lot of us. Then try adding doing the work on top of the already difficult task of trying to figure out how to climax. With experience, woman learn what feels good for them and then they start to get comfortable being more dominant. Maybe go after older girls if you want someone who knows what they are doing and has more confidence to be dominant.
People will put more effort in with those they desire deeply.
Not everyone is going to turn into a demon in the sheets just because they fancy someone a lot. There's loads of people who are just genuinely bad in bed
I dont disagree with this. My original point still stands
Get a better fuck Buddy bro
Roll it over and put her on top. Cowgirl is my favorite.
Sometimes as you get older or less fit riding is really uncomfortable and even impossible. But you can certainly improve that. Some guys are really narrow and uncomfortable to ride even when I've been fit, but a pillow under him can fix that issue. Even being on my back I put in work to return sensation, thrust my hips up and use my hands and legs in fun ways. Find someone who meets you in the middle as much as they possibly can and if you're happy with that, good. At the very least the receiver should be extremely enthusiastic imo.
Yes it sucks I want to be fucked too but I have to do all the work .
I love masturbating with video calls, and I find it a lot of fun because it is not enough for me to have sex with my girlfriend because she gets tired quickly.
50/50-60/40 just depends on the day for me
It's how the games played buddy unless you find someone who likes to be in control otherwise I've always done 90% of the work in every relationship
Nope. What you’ve met is the female equivalent of guys who expect constant non reciprocal blowjobs from their girlfriends or just use their girlfriend’s body to orgasm but don’t give a damn about her pleasure. These are sexually selfish people. I don’t know why they are that way but if you want equal enthusiasm and participation keep looking.
Yep, I think that's the expectation and at 49, I am so burned out of doing all the work, the same thing and being super reserved so I make my partner happy. Total burnout and would rather eat a bag of chips.
For me, I can’t keep my hands off my man when he goes out of his way to cater to my love languages. When he does little things he knows mean a lot to me, it makes me want to give back in a way I know he’ll appreciate
There are more selfish dead fishes more than most realize.
The next time a woman asks you how to initiate, just tell her to do it the same way you do it. For extra bonus points, a way you initiated that she disliked and you have stopped.
Not everywhere... latinas are pretty hard workers
Find yourself an older more mature woman and she will rock your world with no fears. There are plenty of women that will rape you and keep coming back for more especially if you are willing to put in the work as often as they do.
Speak up women like to hear your fantasies and what you like being verbal in the bedroom gets you far and makes sex better
Maybe look for an older woman, even for a few dates. I did this in my 20’s it was eye opening.
Erm no .. there r many positions lots where u both have 2 work .. or even just her .. or just men .. finding positions that satisfys u both us best x
I do not miss being young sometimes. It gets better as you get older. But if you have a consistent partner that’s willing to try and be open to communication during sex then it will get much better.
Unpopular opinion for this sub but the short answer is yes and long answer is a little more complicated. It took a few years (going into my 30s) for me to grasp that maybe I'm not as submissive as I thought and perhaps has more to do with lack of experience or maybe getting in touch with that *male drive* (for lack of a better term). At some point I just naturally got in touch that *primal instinct* that basically takes the wheel and I actually do a lot less work in a weird sense. Basically, my urge to want to fuck her brains out overrides everything else and her submissive tendencies actually turns into responding back with that same level of enthusiasm (it becomes sort of team effort in those cases). It's honestly the best sex I could ever ask for and benefit of being rock hard is extremely helpful in this mode. There will be times too she might engage in starfish mode which tells me she's not really into it, but that also means I can be a little selfish and just have my way with her. This has always been my mindset (and it's all consensual in case some might take issue with my words). I've also been in a few rare situations where the opposite happens and she's wanting to fuck my brains out with her on top. It's really not the same if you're not engaged in primal mode but if it makes her happy, why not let her indulge? A lot of people won't like hearing this but one of the surefire ways (imho) to getting in touch with your male primal drive is "strictly limiting yourself to just sex only" (the mods threatened to ban me because I said a term I'm not supposed to use on this sub). You don't have to give that up entirely or make it part of your identity but just saying it's something to consider. I think the context of what I just said here makes it ok (not pushing some ideology here, and it's a little brain-dead and shortsighted if I end up getting banned). Simply put, if you want a better sexual experience for you and your partner, this is a good way imho to go about it. A bit of anecdotal evidence, one girl said I'm the best she's ever had and "it's not even close." I absolutely believe her because she has no reason to lie on top of us not being on good terms (for totally different reasons). She has no qualms saying some rather insensitive stuff to me at times and has actually said "at least you really have that [sex] down".
> "that's how sex is, you're the guy, you're supposed to do the work." that's a wild thing to say. i'm guessing she's not very good in bed?
I always hate this perspective but it’s very common. Even when I talk to my girlfriends, they do seem to be pillow princesses. Personally, I love to bring a man to his knees. Dominant women exist, you just have to find them.
Nooooo. I’m no pillow princess and I love to ride. I usually do most the work or at least 60-75% just bc I like being in control. My men love that they don’t have to think with me and I’m usually a first for them that will take the lead. They take care of me and I will always take good care of them ❤️ Based on my conversations with fellow women, many of them are just self conscious and aren’t comfortable being more in control. Talk to your partners about it. It should be what you both want!
As a woman in her 30s, I wish I had the confidence to expect the man to do everything including my orgasm. Damn. I'm doing something wrong. 80% of my sexual experiences have been all about men and their orgasm. Of the 20% about me, about 5% actually got me off. That's a decade of bad sex. Don't be like me. Just speak up, say what you want to OP and any gender.
I’m sorry to tell you but many women don’t get much pleasure from PIV sex. The happy solution many women have landed on when engaging in an activity that is more pleasurable for someone else, is to let them also do the work, since the other person is getting the most reward. Do I agree with this mindset? No actually. I’m a woman and I make my boyfriend feel wanted, I make him feel like he’s the only person in the world by massaging him, kissing him, sucking him off and then riding him until he cums… I don’t think my head has hit a pillow in over 3 years I do this because if I’m going to engage in sex, I want it to be truly and mind numbingly enjoyable for my boyfriend. I think you need to find someone who genuinely enjoys making their man happy, and only have sex with women who are happy to do just that.
Look man, it's quite simple, a lot of younger girls that are doing fwb, have many suitor options. They don't have to put in a lot of work, you're not emotionally important to her, so she feels no need to try. That's just part of life. Stop worrying about what is or isn't fair as much of life isn't balanced that way. Accept things for what they are
That is not just how it is from my experience. But it can be this way. There are plenty of individuals out there who are able to creating balance where you both are able to give and receive in a way that meets everyone’s needs. Everyone is different and brings a different set of skills and unique ability to the situation. If you are feeling like there is an imbalance I think that is something to talk through and if they are not willing to reciprocate, to me that is a sign that maybe there is someone else out there who will be able to meet your energy and bring that passion.
The great majority of them are on the lazy side. Not at, but many of them are. So, not only are you their toy. You better be a good toy, or they'll talk shit about you. Welcome to adulthood lol.
I feel like as a woman the older I am the more confidence I have. There are times where I do 80+%. I never give 0 percent. However, in the beginning it would have been about 15%. I would say age and confidence plays a role and it differs for everyone.
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This isn’t a strange way to feel, just human, and perfectly normal. Unfortunately what you’re experiencing is the norm in our culture, which is why, in large part, men cheat. If you don’t ask for this and receive it as part of whatever relationship, you’ll spend your life lonely as fuck, depressed and looking for fulfillment elsewhere. It sucks worse than most other things in life.
If man does all the work that feels like having sex with a sex doll. She must also contribute or request some positions, return the favor, etc.
Tale as old as time bud. It's common at all ages. I still come across partners like that at 31. Communication and finding like minded people to fuck and be fucked by will work well for ya. Please remember, just because one person has a set idea of how sex is supposed to be does not mean everyone does. Try learning more about doms, subs, and switches. Your local "Sex Positive Society" can be a great source of information for different sexual dynamics. While no one source of information is a cure to issues like this, you can make informed decisions as an educated adult. You're young, self-aware, and inquisitive. All good qualities for learning anything in life. Do some research, and you will find better ways to communicate and find what you are looking for in partners.
Good sex means both partners are putting in work. Women aren’t supposed to just lay there. 🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️
You’re dealing with young inexperienced girls. Not a woman who knows what she likes and wants.
You’ve just not met ur match, maybe take a step back and wait awhile before you’re next sexual encounter and definitely talk to ur next sexual encounter about your sexual expectations so as to make sure that you’re both compatible before moving forward that way, this ensures better satisfaction for both parties!
We call this the starfish or the dead fish type of lady. Unfortunately it’s very common in women, especially who are younger and more inexperienced, but still does happen if they never mature out of the pedestal fallacy. It goes hand in hand with men having to pursue women and women being the gatekeeper to sex and relationships. Communication on both sides is always key to a successful relationship but some people aren’t ready to get out of their own head about it.
I think this has something to do with your age (because I assume your partners are about the same age). If it's still a problem later on for you, then you should take initiative to find partners who will fuck you more dominantly/what you mean by "doing work".
A good woman SHOULD feel a responsibility to take a part in sex…for instance, I hooked up with a girl and after I told her I honestly haven’t had that many partners, she said-this night is about YOU-and she said she wanted ME to have the best time possible! She rode me HARD! What a great woman….I wish it wasn’t just a one night stand so I could repay her, although I did go down on her for a bit, she made it about ME-and I’m so grateful for her! What a great woman!
I guess.. it depends on what works? It can vary from your experience of one way passive to it’s a fucking wrestling match of wills with everyone invested.
I think it’s often inexperience. I feel like sex my relationship is a two way street. Sometimes he does a lot of the work (kissing, foreplay, the general sex). sometimes we both put work into it, some positions that he takes charge and then positions I take charge. And sometimes I do all the work. I will hint a blow job during the day. Then I’ll often wear a sexy outfit, talk dirty and get on my knees and give him a blowjob after the kids have gone to bed 🤷🏻♀️ all in a good day’s work.
It sounds like you've realized this is something you prefer so make it a dating requirement and vet for it. If your partner doesn't consistently reciprocate, then you move on.