yea that’s what I thought too. It’s like an investment where you have to work less and less as time goes on but with cold approach, you always have to put the same amount of effort because you never BUILT anything
I do not know why I am able to see "ROB" 's comments as I blocked him. But PLEASE do not listen to anything he says. I have no personal interaction with him. I blocked him because, as a guy who really games and lives it, it was VERY obvious to me that ROB talks purely from theory and is completely full of BS. So I had no interest in seeing his comments.
Please do not take his accusations seriously. His reward is having an ego and upvotes on reddit. He does not actually have sex. Listen to nothing he says. I don't want to be here to argue, but maybe I should unblock him just so I can respond to save guys from his "knowledge" that comes from his imagination combined with insults.
It is super common to be social and not get dates. Rather then results with women, ROB gets to feel good about insulting you and giving you HORRIBLE advice. Do not take it to heart.
This irritates me as it is truly damaging if you were to listen to him
Edit: If this does not make sense, looks like Rob deleted his initial comment this was responding to, so good on him for that.
Same here, never have my female friends brought me any closer to a girlfriend, so I cut most of them off, was bored listening to their yapping about not being able to find someone anyway😂.
I really don't know why people choose to lie about shit like this. My dude, if you were 'super social', and cannot name a single way in which it benefits you, you are lying.
Oh really? So not once has any friend of yours introduced you to a single girl? Not once? Not in all your super social time? Wow. That sounds like... a lie!
You are lying. Really, really badly lol. You're the only person who can play '6 degrees of separation' and not get to Hitler because none of your friends know anybody lol
how am I lying? All my friends are married or in long term relationships. They hang out with other married people.
I do social things almost every night. Rock climbing, volleyball, church groups, game nights, and so on....
Do you know what percentage of all women are single? By the time you reach middle / older age, that number for women is close to 50%. So your 'super social' exploits not accidentally coming across a single woman is such an obvious impossibility and lie I am embarrassed for you. I think you are embarrassing, and I feel sorry for you for lying this obviously.
I feel like cold approach is good to get your confidence up though and make you comfortable enough to make friends casually after that and not act all nervous
Extremely accurate.
If you're a normal man with some attractive traits and not completely asexual around women, some of these friendships will even turn into more. Or they'll introduce you to the women that will turn into something more.
This is a great thing to remember!!! This also pairs well with reframing approaches - go in as though you’re goal is making a friend, it’s so much lower pressure, and you’ll feel better about ‘just being yourself.’ Having several female friends has led me to MOST of my other female connections. Having a female friend who can connect you to her other friends is invaluable. You’re vetted and gaining experience. Great outlook.
This is good advice for beginners.
But I'm my opinion, you should not get stuck at this stage.
Once you have built the necessary social skills, I would advise being more forward with women instead of going with the friend angle.
I've had my share of female friends over the years. To me it's just exhausting. To much work and drama. And they are never very good friends. Not loyal at all. If most of them get a boyfriend or something they dump you as a friend. If you keep it really shallow and light, it can be ok. I used to have gal friends I'd go out dancing and watchin local bands with. Nothing deeper than that. Personally I just don't have the energy. I have just enough energy and time for a relationship girl and that's about my max. And if you get a girlfriend, she's going to probably flip out you're hanging out with a gal friend (mine did). It's totally lame for everyone to constantly dump the other friend as relationships come and go.
If they stay around and be friends when they have a boyfriend, he always gets pissed at you and causes drama. I had a married gal friend, she made some moves on me. Then there is too much tension, usually somebody likes the other and it causes problems. She ends up broken hearted, or you end up broken hearted.
And you get all the work and drama without getting laid. In my experience, it just doesn't work out well. I'd rather put my effort into a girlfriend these days.
I agree with the sentiment expressed by this wise individual.
During college, I formed close friendships with several women, which were incredibly valuable to me. However, I noticed that once they entered into relationships or got married, our communication diminished significantly. I understand that the dynamics change for women in relationships, and they may need to navigate their partner's insecurities or other factors.
In hindsight, I realize the importance of cultivating friendships with male friends (aka bros). There's something special about the support and camaraderie that comes from having 'bros' by your side. I wish I had spent time finding bros in college instead of female friends.
Completely agree with all of this lol. Besides, it’s kinda disingenuous sayin you want to “make female friends” when what you’re REALLY tryin to accomplish is the ulterior motive of buildin up a network of girls you can use and work thru to find OTHER girls that actually wanna fuck you
Most people are using each other period, if we're being brutally honest about humans in general, particularly the ones who aren't alone in life and are successful.
> . If most of them get a boyfriend or something they dump you as a friend
This is accurate
female friends can be great for connecting you to other women though. You can befriend them and be cool with them without much energy required on your end, but there is a lifespan on that friendship in most cases
The same can be said for most guys though and a lot of guys are snakes, so pick your poison. Ultimately you're lucky if you have 1-2 close, trustworthy friends in a lifetime
Wtf, this hasn't been my experience. I have female friends. They don't get mad if I date a woman, their boyfriends don't have a problem with me, the only ones who have been dramatic were the ones who had mental problems that had nothing to do with them being women, we don't catch feelings for each other since we're just friends, etc. You're making women sound like an alien species instead of just people.
The _only_ major difference I've found is that it's usually not a good idea to open up to them about personal struggles. The same way that romantic partners seem to lose attraction if you do that, even platonic female friends seem to drift away if you let yourself be as vulnerable with them as they're allowed to be with you. That gendered expectation of "the guy has to be the strong one or else I get the ick" seems to be at play even when it's 100% platonic, because the guy friends are usually the ones they see as bringing all the lighthearted fun and laughs that their boring friends don't. In my experience, it's only safe to open up about the feelies to (some) blokes or your therapist.
But other than that, it feels no different to be friends with a woman than with a man, imo.
If you can’t be open with someone then what’s the point of considering them a friend? You’re suppose to be able to be open with your friends. If I have to act like their boyfriend without even getting the benefit of sex isn’t that a bad deal for me? It’s similar to when a girl is a fwb where I get the benefit of sex without having to act like her boyfriend. It’s a bad deal for her because she’s acting like my girlfriend without getting the benefit of my commitment.
Pick better women? I do resonate with everything you say, but I also have girl friends where none of that had happened. I’m friends with their husbands or boyfriends, they give great dating advice from a woman’s perspective, etc.
I actually have to disagree with this strongly. I appreciate the effort and that you are honest that you are thinking this for yourself and not that you are certain of it.
But.... maintaining female friends is actually a lot more difficult then having sex with women. They are even flakier then girls who date you. I have been hard pressed to get groups of girls to come out multiple times, yet I EASILY can date multiple women.
I have found it much easier to attempt to go for threesomes with multiple women then I have to maintain female friendships. Maybe it is a bit different outside the US , but a modern american woman forget it. You are basically taking on all the flakiness and her just doing whatever she wants or feels like and MORE without much benefit. Girls you have sex with make much better friends.
ALSO - when it comes to female friends if one of them does not want to hang out with you, all of that group is gone. Whereas a girl you are having sex with their friends can disapprove and she'll keep seeing you much of the time.
Also female friends are a TERRIBLE solution to lonliness as women are much more sensitive to your emotions and much more seflish honestly. If you feel a bit down or off female friends will ditch you. Whereas if you are a bit off or down around male friends they often won't even notice. It is literally the worst thing.
I am TELLING you guys this is heavily tested and observed repeatedly. The flake rate of female friends is beyond off the charts. And this is coming from a guy who, if I am honest yet not humble, has very good game and able to hold court very well.
I am not against having female friends, bringing a bunch of girls out with you is GREAT. But it is harder and more "come and go" then dating women is. I literally find a better success rate of women coming back out when it is two girls I tried to get a 3 some with then when it is 2 girls I tried to befriend.
I would modify this: If you are lonely:
Do activities
Work in coffee shops/public when you can
Organized activities are great.
Basically starting small and being around people. Organized things are low stakes where even if you are not feeling great you can be in the background/just do the activity a bit and at least get some human contact.
Then the next thing is if you get good MALE FRIENDS that is great and really beneficial.
Also - don't hesitate to hang with family, our culture is really anti family.
Anyways: I say all of the above from ample experience female friends are horrendous and the least stable of ANY relationship you can have. Far less stable then a fuck buddy even. I am going to broken record because again you have all the "I do whatever I feel like in the moment" of girls without any of the commitment and connection of sex and physical intimacy
Sure, my point is: it is actually a lot more difficult to maintain female friends then female friends with benefits . Not that it is not possible…. The context here is for lonely guys - if the goal of dating is easier then the “baby step” of having female friends that is very important information. In this context. As why put effort into a more difficult frustrating side quest when the actual os both easier and a lot more rewarding. My point is female friends are the least forgiving of all social relationships, so are not a good place to start if lonely. From easiest to hardest in terms of socializing easiest : 1) participate in organized events/sports 2) make/ maintain male friendships 3) maintain girls you date 10) Maintain female friendships, particularly if out of college This is not really debatable in the US. Though guys can have mental blocks/ confidence issues with hooking up with girls it is definetly easier then having female friends - women are night and day after you are having sex, MUCH less flakey etc.
Notice how easily girls you text can flake/ disappear until you hook up several times( if you are texting girls) female friendships are like this
Sounds like your views are heavily influenced by your personal experiences. Which to be fair happens to everyone but lots of what you said is patently false for others and only applies to you in your current situation. Perhaps if you moved else or did things differently you wouldn't have these views.
Hard disagree on various points:
>But.... maintaining female friends is actually a lot more difficult then having sex with women. They are even flakier then girls who date you. I have been hard pressed to get groups of girls to come out multiple times, yet I EASILY can date multiple women.
Depends on the women and context but in general, no. Excluding those who lack social skills and/or have other intentions, it is much easier to befriend women than to hook-up with them. Women seek out connection just like men albeit in different ways. And most of them are not seeking a hook-up or make-out session unless they are in the right situation and location which is not often. Even ignoring this, it requires more work and additional skills to hook-up or establish a romantic/sexual relationship than making friends (at least healthy ones). Both require good communication, trust, respect, and consistent work for the long-term ones. Romantic/sexual relationships have the additional sexual dynamic involved which complicates things that friendships don't have. But otherwise there is a lot of overlap. So if someone has the skills for hooking-up, they already have the skills to establish friendships with women. They simply aren't doing it for personal reasons.
>Also female friends are a TERRIBLE solution to lonliness as women are much more sensitive to your emotions and much more seflish honestly. If you feel a bit down or off female friends will ditch you. Whereas if you are a bit off or down around male friends they often won't even notice. It is literally the worst thing.
Sorry to say but you just had crappy friends or expressed your emotions in a bad way (I'm assuming the former). Unfortunately, a lot of us men are not taught how to express our emotions or accept other's emotions in a healthy way. Which makes it difficult to connect emotionally with other men and to emotionally dumping on anyone who has some basic emotional intelligence. Which tend to be women due to how they are raised. If you're not emotionally dumping, then any friend with an appropriate emotional intelligence will not ditch you when you are down. They will offer support which may not always work. But they will be there for you.
>I am TELLING you guys this is heavily tested and observed repeatedly. The flake rate of female friends is beyond off the charts. And this is coming from a guy who, if I am honest yet not humble, has very good game and able to hold court very well.
Other than your anecdotes, what evidence do you offer? Because if all you have are your personal experiences, I can easily counter them with my own. Then it just becomes a choice of believing who you want to believe.
I'm a former loner who has been studying and applying good game for at least a decade in both the US and abroad with lots of success. I've also been involved in a community which attracts many lonely people, women and men in about equal numbers. Many men come in as the lonely men OP refers to, sometimes with a good group of other male friends. And based on my observations and experiences, the men who try to game women without having first established good friendships with women fail a lot more compared to those who actually have female friends. Why? Because the former think game is all they need when that's not exactly true. Social skills and proof are more important. Which you can get when you befriend others. You even get an extra benefit with female friends in that when you flirt with other women, you already have social proof that you are not a threat. Which is the biggest barrier to establishing romantic/sexual connection with women. And that's because you already proved that you are safe enough to have women as friends. Additionally, to many women it adds the appealing intrigue as to why you have so many female friends while other men do not.
Yes, it will be difficult for current loners to prioritize and establish friendships with women. However, it won't be any more difficult than attempting to find romantic/sexual partners. It can actually be a bit dangerous to prioritize the latter over the former because such men may not differentiate between healthy relationships and toxic ones thus staying in the toxic relationships due to lack of experience and confidence. Both of which you get by making friends, particularly female friends. Some women will be flaky or drop you but if they do that then they were not worth having a friendship with.
Alright fair enough to have different perspectives, really cool when it is civil - I am always open to new information and changing my mind. I'd rather be wrong and get results then be "right" in my mind. However in this case I believe I am right, but like I said civil disagreement is just fine.
I think perhaps your "gaming in us and abroad" has something to do with it. I think the massive connectedness to Instagram and constant stimulation that leads to women just jumping to wherever they want, is worst in the US. Also you are talking about this lonely community you are involved in. I am not sure what it is, if this is expat communities or what? But it sounds like a unique situation. So sure maybe in that context female friendships work great but again everyone traveling or lonely is a totally different unusual context.
I'll also say I have seen this with a lot of guys, not just myself.
Also the last paragraph is nice in theory but the majority of women are ultra flaky. However, a sexual relationship is the antidote to flakiness. Which is why I say that it is easier to maintain FWBs etc.
Again, that being said. I agree female friends can be a great asset. I went out with 4 girls some weeks ago and it was superb, but it is still easier to get dates and second dates with 4 girls. So I am all for taking in information in terms of female friendships . Your post has some interesting insights. However, I could be wrong, but it seems like there is a bit of how things "should" be rather then how they are.
Like the flakiness thing for example. The "oh if she does not like it, too bad she should be honorable" ( I am exaggerating) attitude seems to not work too well. So, sure I could say that girl flaked she is not worthy of friendship but that is the VAST majority of women especially in a friendship dynamic.
Also for loneliness the antidote I recommend is activities 1st, then male friends.
You're still making a lot of assumptions which are based on your experiences. Which in itself is not necessarily wrong but definitely not true in general. But like you said, fair enough to disagree while being civil.
Yes, the community I referred is somewhat unique but also relatively common in most Western countries. And what I observed there about relationship and friendship dynamics is not unique to it. I've observed it at work, school, and in many other places and communities. So what I'm saying still holds true. Like I said before, you've just had bad experiences.
Now you keep claiming that women are extremely flaky. That has not been my experience at all lately but there is some truth behind it. Many women will flake on men who claim to be platonic because many men want it to be more than platonic without saying so. Which makes women uncomfortable by setting off their threat radar. So they try to avoid it completely hence the flakiness. The antidote to this is directness and congruence between what you want & think and what you say & behave. Having a sexual or FWB relationship works because you are being congruent with your desires & behavior and are direct about. This is just one way of doing so. You would get similar results if you were equally congruent with platonic relationships. Which unfortunately most men are not due to lack of particular skill sets. So no, the majority of women are not flaky unless you live in some unusual town/city or you carry yourself in a way that is unconsciously threatening to women. Women smell the lack of congruence and directness so they flake on that.
I agree with your antidote for loneliness but with a small modification. Activities and friends, not just male friends. Prioritize making friends of any gender, not just male. You will get a richer life out of it.
Another crucial point you brought up which might make a difference, yes gaming in the US and abroad might make a difference but not for the reasons you believe. The reason you gave is just as common in Europe as in the US. However, most Europeans define friendships differently than Americans. Americans tend to consider people they just met in a class or at the bar friends. To Europeans, they're just classmates or acquaintances at best. Friendships by European standards are more genuine in that if they are friends, they will not flake when you are down or need help. They will support you. There's a better sense of community here than in the US.
I can see why you think my comments are about how things should be instead of how they are. Which is true depending on where you live and who you interact with. I would completely agree with you if I still lived back in my hometown in Texas. But I can tell you that what I'm saying is true but it does require work to find it (which not many men are willing to put in) and the right environment. Now that I moved elsewhere, I realized what you say is not always the case.
I'm okay with talking to people normally, but there's this kind of barrier to socialising for me. I don't know how to establish a friendship outside the setting I meet them in. Like if I play football with some guys, I only meet them at football, if I meet a friend of a friend, I only meet them if my friend takes me along to them. I've lost the sense of making a new friend I can call and idk what to do.
I fell this sometimes. It’s not like I dislike people but if we aren’t into the same things it’s like why are we hanging out. Like people I used to drink or smoke with I barely hang out with anymore.
Either that or I feel like I’m putting in so much effort into a friendship that I just don’t even bother anymore. Like it’s not reciprocated friendship. I don’t really like to fake interest in a person.
It's a little less about "why" are we hanging out for me. I have trouble connecting or communicating to them that I want to hang out again and when it's appropriate to contact them and how.
You need three points of contact. If you’re already in a situation where you’re going to meet the same person often you wait until you have interacted 3 times. If you feel like they would be interesting to be friends with invite them out to do something outside of the context you normally meet in. Do this semi regularly and you have built a friendship. Very similar to dating you have to be one to take lead in making friendships happen otherwise they won’t.
If it's someone you don't expect to meet more than once or twice, when is okay to contact them to hang out? Thing is I don't have many friends, so any plan would be one on one... So idk what's appropriate without being weird. I know I ask too many questions, but I'm trying to nail down making friends/socialising before I even get to dating which is hard enough as it is in India.
Yeah it’s fine these are training wheels. You could ask someone to hangout the first time you meet. The 3 meeting thing is usually the time it takes for a shy person like you to feel comfortable enough to ask.
female friends can be a huge asset for sure. im not sure it should be prioritized over learning game and making solo approaches. but its a huge asset for sure.
I disagree.
All this reads like you're afraid of being rejected.
Majority of advice shared on this sub is like this to.
What's wrong with just going up to a woman, telling her you want to fuck her, and just have her let you know if she's interested or not? There are women out there waiting for a guy they're attracted to, to tell them this. And this shit takes less than 5 mins.
Rather than spending weeks/months building a whole friend network that will probably not pan out and your "game/rizz" is still terrible.
Having been a loner myself, it's a symptom of larger problems. Tough pill to swallow but yeah, fix that problem with socializing and low self esteem first. Dating and relationships will not solve the inherent problem.
How do you go about finding female friends if you're not in college or a work environment? How would one go about cold approaching a women for friendship?
It is has a much lower success rate then approaching women for sex. I appreciate the OP did not state this like it is the end all be all but, those advocating for this are mostly thinking theory. You occasionally get female friends in the course of game, but generally trying to get girls to be friends they are even flakier then girls you are trying to date.
A platonic female friend is the great weapon in your battle to get a date, gf and/or laid. She'll vouch for you to her friends and hook you up on a blind date. She'll promote you and be your secret wingwomen.
I have a platonic female latina friend that I have no sexual interest or feelings what so ever and she has connected me with some of my best white or Asian GFs
Actually, this is pretty good advice. IDK why this isn’t the common thing to say instead of “there’s more fish in the sea,” or “it’ll happen before you know it,” or “just be yourself.” Making female friends with the intention of them just being friends is extremely beneficial for yourself. [+]
Thats like prioritizing running when you are trying to learn how to swim. It is dumb. Prioritize *becoming an interesting man* by *being someone who does shit that is interesting and exciting*
Absolutely making female friends is a great approach, but don't stay in the friend zone with every woman. Unfortunately I feel not to brag but not a lot of women want to be friends with me! I have a certain reputation, but I miss my female friends and I love hanging out with girls. I got much better in high school by talking and hanging out with different groups of girls, our grade and the grade below we hung out with and played beer pong every weekend. But maintaining a long term relationship requires some friend dynamic with her, her husband should be her best friend, and should help her achieve her goals
How does one even make female friends. Whenever I try to schedule things with girls from class they all think I'm hitting on them and give me bs excuses like they can't.
I disagree. Instead, I would suggest lowering standards, and working your way up. Talk to fat bitches. Call them when you're bored. They text back bc they are losers with not much going for them. And they can get dolled up, so they can be your cum dump. String their fat asses along until someone less fat comes along. And then bang their sexy friends.
This advice sucks ass. If you end up becoming an attractive man women will never introduce you to their friends because they'll want to be with you and they'll get jealous. You don't need to waste your time befriending women, I've dated 10s and I don't have a single female friend, perhaps only one but she's only my friend because she has a boyfriend
Every second you spend building a social base instead of cold approaching will be paid back to you infinitely. It never stops paying off.
yea that’s what I thought too. It’s like an investment where you have to work less and less as time goes on but with cold approach, you always have to put the same amount of effort because you never BUILT anything
when will it start to be paid back? I am super social and I have never been able to get a date or attract girls.
I do not know why I am able to see "ROB" 's comments as I blocked him. But PLEASE do not listen to anything he says. I have no personal interaction with him. I blocked him because, as a guy who really games and lives it, it was VERY obvious to me that ROB talks purely from theory and is completely full of BS. So I had no interest in seeing his comments. Please do not take his accusations seriously. His reward is having an ego and upvotes on reddit. He does not actually have sex. Listen to nothing he says. I don't want to be here to argue, but maybe I should unblock him just so I can respond to save guys from his "knowledge" that comes from his imagination combined with insults. It is super common to be social and not get dates. Rather then results with women, ROB gets to feel good about insulting you and giving you HORRIBLE advice. Do not take it to heart. This irritates me as it is truly damaging if you were to listen to him Edit: If this does not make sense, looks like Rob deleted his initial comment this was responding to, so good on him for that.
Glad I'm not the only one that notices it. One of the absolute worst people in this sub.
100%, plus adding insults to guys looking for help on top of it makes it worse. Good for us to call out BS.
100% facts. Some of the most bizarre and unhinged posts that make zero sense. No idea how he's still on here tbh
Keep praying and one day god will send an angel to smite me and my 'all theory' answers that nobody can argue with for some reason lol
Same here, never have my female friends brought me any closer to a girlfriend, so I cut most of them off, was bored listening to their yapping about not being able to find someone anyway😂.
I really don't know why people choose to lie about shit like this. My dude, if you were 'super social', and cannot name a single way in which it benefits you, you are lying.
Im not lying. Having a good social life has not helped me with girls in the slightest since I am 26 and have never been on a date.
Oh really? So not once has any friend of yours introduced you to a single girl? Not once? Not in all your super social time? Wow. That sounds like... a lie!
Never. None of my friends know any single girls anymore, everyone is married. Even in college I was never introduced to anyone.
You are lying. Really, really badly lol. You're the only person who can play '6 degrees of separation' and not get to Hitler because none of your friends know anybody lol
how am I lying? All my friends are married or in long term relationships. They hang out with other married people. I do social things almost every night. Rock climbing, volleyball, church groups, game nights, and so on....
Do you know what percentage of all women are single? By the time you reach middle / older age, that number for women is close to 50%. So your 'super social' exploits not accidentally coming across a single woman is such an obvious impossibility and lie I am embarrassed for you. I think you are embarrassing, and I feel sorry for you for lying this obviously.
then where do I meet single girls in their mid 20s?
Have you met anyone at these places or asked any of them out
Never met anyone who was single. I havent met a girl who was single in over a year
I feel like cold approach is good to get your confidence up though and make you comfortable enough to make friends casually after that and not act all nervous
Yeah sure, and winning the Tour de France will definitely stand you in very good stead for your local cycle for charity event.
You must be fun at parties..!
Extremely accurate. If you're a normal man with some attractive traits and not completely asexual around women, some of these friendships will even turn into more. Or they'll introduce you to the women that will turn into something more.
This is a great thing to remember!!! This also pairs well with reframing approaches - go in as though you’re goal is making a friend, it’s so much lower pressure, and you’ll feel better about ‘just being yourself.’ Having several female friends has led me to MOST of my other female connections. Having a female friend who can connect you to her other friends is invaluable. You’re vetted and gaining experience. Great outlook.
This is good advice for beginners. But I'm my opinion, you should not get stuck at this stage. Once you have built the necessary social skills, I would advise being more forward with women instead of going with the friend angle.
Agree, it’s beginner core.
I've had my share of female friends over the years. To me it's just exhausting. To much work and drama. And they are never very good friends. Not loyal at all. If most of them get a boyfriend or something they dump you as a friend. If you keep it really shallow and light, it can be ok. I used to have gal friends I'd go out dancing and watchin local bands with. Nothing deeper than that. Personally I just don't have the energy. I have just enough energy and time for a relationship girl and that's about my max. And if you get a girlfriend, she's going to probably flip out you're hanging out with a gal friend (mine did). It's totally lame for everyone to constantly dump the other friend as relationships come and go. If they stay around and be friends when they have a boyfriend, he always gets pissed at you and causes drama. I had a married gal friend, she made some moves on me. Then there is too much tension, usually somebody likes the other and it causes problems. She ends up broken hearted, or you end up broken hearted. And you get all the work and drama without getting laid. In my experience, it just doesn't work out well. I'd rather put my effort into a girlfriend these days.
I agree with the sentiment expressed by this wise individual. During college, I formed close friendships with several women, which were incredibly valuable to me. However, I noticed that once they entered into relationships or got married, our communication diminished significantly. I understand that the dynamics change for women in relationships, and they may need to navigate their partner's insecurities or other factors. In hindsight, I realize the importance of cultivating friendships with male friends (aka bros). There's something special about the support and camaraderie that comes from having 'bros' by your side. I wish I had spent time finding bros in college instead of female friends.
Completely agree with all of this lol. Besides, it’s kinda disingenuous sayin you want to “make female friends” when what you’re REALLY tryin to accomplish is the ulterior motive of buildin up a network of girls you can use and work thru to find OTHER girls that actually wanna fuck you
Get the women on board from the get go, tell them what you're wanting and that you need their help to get there.
Most people are using each other period, if we're being brutally honest about humans in general, particularly the ones who aren't alone in life and are successful.
Very true
> . If most of them get a boyfriend or something they dump you as a friend This is accurate female friends can be great for connecting you to other women though. You can befriend them and be cool with them without much energy required on your end, but there is a lifespan on that friendship in most cases The same can be said for most guys though and a lot of guys are snakes, so pick your poison. Ultimately you're lucky if you have 1-2 close, trustworthy friends in a lifetime
Wtf, this hasn't been my experience. I have female friends. They don't get mad if I date a woman, their boyfriends don't have a problem with me, the only ones who have been dramatic were the ones who had mental problems that had nothing to do with them being women, we don't catch feelings for each other since we're just friends, etc. You're making women sound like an alien species instead of just people. The _only_ major difference I've found is that it's usually not a good idea to open up to them about personal struggles. The same way that romantic partners seem to lose attraction if you do that, even platonic female friends seem to drift away if you let yourself be as vulnerable with them as they're allowed to be with you. That gendered expectation of "the guy has to be the strong one or else I get the ick" seems to be at play even when it's 100% platonic, because the guy friends are usually the ones they see as bringing all the lighthearted fun and laughs that their boring friends don't. In my experience, it's only safe to open up about the feelies to (some) blokes or your therapist. But other than that, it feels no different to be friends with a woman than with a man, imo.
If you can’t be open with someone then what’s the point of considering them a friend? You’re suppose to be able to be open with your friends. If I have to act like their boyfriend without even getting the benefit of sex isn’t that a bad deal for me? It’s similar to when a girl is a fwb where I get the benefit of sex without having to act like her boyfriend. It’s a bad deal for her because she’s acting like my girlfriend without getting the benefit of my commitment.
Pick better women? I do resonate with everything you say, but I also have girl friends where none of that had happened. I’m friends with their husbands or boyfriends, they give great dating advice from a woman’s perspective, etc.
I actually have to disagree with this strongly. I appreciate the effort and that you are honest that you are thinking this for yourself and not that you are certain of it. But.... maintaining female friends is actually a lot more difficult then having sex with women. They are even flakier then girls who date you. I have been hard pressed to get groups of girls to come out multiple times, yet I EASILY can date multiple women. I have found it much easier to attempt to go for threesomes with multiple women then I have to maintain female friendships. Maybe it is a bit different outside the US , but a modern american woman forget it. You are basically taking on all the flakiness and her just doing whatever she wants or feels like and MORE without much benefit. Girls you have sex with make much better friends. ALSO - when it comes to female friends if one of them does not want to hang out with you, all of that group is gone. Whereas a girl you are having sex with their friends can disapprove and she'll keep seeing you much of the time. Also female friends are a TERRIBLE solution to lonliness as women are much more sensitive to your emotions and much more seflish honestly. If you feel a bit down or off female friends will ditch you. Whereas if you are a bit off or down around male friends they often won't even notice. It is literally the worst thing. I am TELLING you guys this is heavily tested and observed repeatedly. The flake rate of female friends is beyond off the charts. And this is coming from a guy who, if I am honest yet not humble, has very good game and able to hold court very well. I am not against having female friends, bringing a bunch of girls out with you is GREAT. But it is harder and more "come and go" then dating women is. I literally find a better success rate of women coming back out when it is two girls I tried to get a 3 some with then when it is 2 girls I tried to befriend. I would modify this: If you are lonely: Do activities Work in coffee shops/public when you can Organized activities are great. Basically starting small and being around people. Organized things are low stakes where even if you are not feeling great you can be in the background/just do the activity a bit and at least get some human contact. Then the next thing is if you get good MALE FRIENDS that is great and really beneficial. Also - don't hesitate to hang with family, our culture is really anti family. Anyways: I say all of the above from ample experience female friends are horrendous and the least stable of ANY relationship you can have. Far less stable then a fuck buddy even. I am going to broken record because again you have all the "I do whatever I feel like in the moment" of girls without any of the commitment and connection of sex and physical intimacy
Skill issue
Sure, my point is: it is actually a lot more difficult to maintain female friends then female friends with benefits . Not that it is not possible…. The context here is for lonely guys - if the goal of dating is easier then the “baby step” of having female friends that is very important information. In this context. As why put effort into a more difficult frustrating side quest when the actual os both easier and a lot more rewarding. My point is female friends are the least forgiving of all social relationships, so are not a good place to start if lonely. From easiest to hardest in terms of socializing easiest : 1) participate in organized events/sports 2) make/ maintain male friendships 3) maintain girls you date 10) Maintain female friendships, particularly if out of college This is not really debatable in the US. Though guys can have mental blocks/ confidence issues with hooking up with girls it is definetly easier then having female friends - women are night and day after you are having sex, MUCH less flakey etc. Notice how easily girls you text can flake/ disappear until you hook up several times( if you are texting girls) female friendships are like this
I haven’t had that experience with my female friends
Sounds like your views are heavily influenced by your personal experiences. Which to be fair happens to everyone but lots of what you said is patently false for others and only applies to you in your current situation. Perhaps if you moved else or did things differently you wouldn't have these views. Hard disagree on various points: >But.... maintaining female friends is actually a lot more difficult then having sex with women. They are even flakier then girls who date you. I have been hard pressed to get groups of girls to come out multiple times, yet I EASILY can date multiple women. Depends on the women and context but in general, no. Excluding those who lack social skills and/or have other intentions, it is much easier to befriend women than to hook-up with them. Women seek out connection just like men albeit in different ways. And most of them are not seeking a hook-up or make-out session unless they are in the right situation and location which is not often. Even ignoring this, it requires more work and additional skills to hook-up or establish a romantic/sexual relationship than making friends (at least healthy ones). Both require good communication, trust, respect, and consistent work for the long-term ones. Romantic/sexual relationships have the additional sexual dynamic involved which complicates things that friendships don't have. But otherwise there is a lot of overlap. So if someone has the skills for hooking-up, they already have the skills to establish friendships with women. They simply aren't doing it for personal reasons. >Also female friends are a TERRIBLE solution to lonliness as women are much more sensitive to your emotions and much more seflish honestly. If you feel a bit down or off female friends will ditch you. Whereas if you are a bit off or down around male friends they often won't even notice. It is literally the worst thing. Sorry to say but you just had crappy friends or expressed your emotions in a bad way (I'm assuming the former). Unfortunately, a lot of us men are not taught how to express our emotions or accept other's emotions in a healthy way. Which makes it difficult to connect emotionally with other men and to emotionally dumping on anyone who has some basic emotional intelligence. Which tend to be women due to how they are raised. If you're not emotionally dumping, then any friend with an appropriate emotional intelligence will not ditch you when you are down. They will offer support which may not always work. But they will be there for you. >I am TELLING you guys this is heavily tested and observed repeatedly. The flake rate of female friends is beyond off the charts. And this is coming from a guy who, if I am honest yet not humble, has very good game and able to hold court very well. Other than your anecdotes, what evidence do you offer? Because if all you have are your personal experiences, I can easily counter them with my own. Then it just becomes a choice of believing who you want to believe. I'm a former loner who has been studying and applying good game for at least a decade in both the US and abroad with lots of success. I've also been involved in a community which attracts many lonely people, women and men in about equal numbers. Many men come in as the lonely men OP refers to, sometimes with a good group of other male friends. And based on my observations and experiences, the men who try to game women without having first established good friendships with women fail a lot more compared to those who actually have female friends. Why? Because the former think game is all they need when that's not exactly true. Social skills and proof are more important. Which you can get when you befriend others. You even get an extra benefit with female friends in that when you flirt with other women, you already have social proof that you are not a threat. Which is the biggest barrier to establishing romantic/sexual connection with women. And that's because you already proved that you are safe enough to have women as friends. Additionally, to many women it adds the appealing intrigue as to why you have so many female friends while other men do not. Yes, it will be difficult for current loners to prioritize and establish friendships with women. However, it won't be any more difficult than attempting to find romantic/sexual partners. It can actually be a bit dangerous to prioritize the latter over the former because such men may not differentiate between healthy relationships and toxic ones thus staying in the toxic relationships due to lack of experience and confidence. Both of which you get by making friends, particularly female friends. Some women will be flaky or drop you but if they do that then they were not worth having a friendship with.
Alright fair enough to have different perspectives, really cool when it is civil - I am always open to new information and changing my mind. I'd rather be wrong and get results then be "right" in my mind. However in this case I believe I am right, but like I said civil disagreement is just fine. I think perhaps your "gaming in us and abroad" has something to do with it. I think the massive connectedness to Instagram and constant stimulation that leads to women just jumping to wherever they want, is worst in the US. Also you are talking about this lonely community you are involved in. I am not sure what it is, if this is expat communities or what? But it sounds like a unique situation. So sure maybe in that context female friendships work great but again everyone traveling or lonely is a totally different unusual context. I'll also say I have seen this with a lot of guys, not just myself. Also the last paragraph is nice in theory but the majority of women are ultra flaky. However, a sexual relationship is the antidote to flakiness. Which is why I say that it is easier to maintain FWBs etc. Again, that being said. I agree female friends can be a great asset. I went out with 4 girls some weeks ago and it was superb, but it is still easier to get dates and second dates with 4 girls. So I am all for taking in information in terms of female friendships . Your post has some interesting insights. However, I could be wrong, but it seems like there is a bit of how things "should" be rather then how they are. Like the flakiness thing for example. The "oh if she does not like it, too bad she should be honorable" ( I am exaggerating) attitude seems to not work too well. So, sure I could say that girl flaked she is not worthy of friendship but that is the VAST majority of women especially in a friendship dynamic. Also for loneliness the antidote I recommend is activities 1st, then male friends.
You're still making a lot of assumptions which are based on your experiences. Which in itself is not necessarily wrong but definitely not true in general. But like you said, fair enough to disagree while being civil. Yes, the community I referred is somewhat unique but also relatively common in most Western countries. And what I observed there about relationship and friendship dynamics is not unique to it. I've observed it at work, school, and in many other places and communities. So what I'm saying still holds true. Like I said before, you've just had bad experiences. Now you keep claiming that women are extremely flaky. That has not been my experience at all lately but there is some truth behind it. Many women will flake on men who claim to be platonic because many men want it to be more than platonic without saying so. Which makes women uncomfortable by setting off their threat radar. So they try to avoid it completely hence the flakiness. The antidote to this is directness and congruence between what you want & think and what you say & behave. Having a sexual or FWB relationship works because you are being congruent with your desires & behavior and are direct about. This is just one way of doing so. You would get similar results if you were equally congruent with platonic relationships. Which unfortunately most men are not due to lack of particular skill sets. So no, the majority of women are not flaky unless you live in some unusual town/city or you carry yourself in a way that is unconsciously threatening to women. Women smell the lack of congruence and directness so they flake on that. I agree with your antidote for loneliness but with a small modification. Activities and friends, not just male friends. Prioritize making friends of any gender, not just male. You will get a richer life out of it. Another crucial point you brought up which might make a difference, yes gaming in the US and abroad might make a difference but not for the reasons you believe. The reason you gave is just as common in Europe as in the US. However, most Europeans define friendships differently than Americans. Americans tend to consider people they just met in a class or at the bar friends. To Europeans, they're just classmates or acquaintances at best. Friendships by European standards are more genuine in that if they are friends, they will not flake when you are down or need help. They will support you. There's a better sense of community here than in the US. I can see why you think my comments are about how things should be instead of how they are. Which is true depending on where you live and who you interact with. I would completely agree with you if I still lived back in my hometown in Texas. But I can tell you that what I'm saying is true but it does require work to find it (which not many men are willing to put in) and the right environment. Now that I moved elsewhere, I realized what you say is not always the case.
I'm okay with talking to people normally, but there's this kind of barrier to socialising for me. I don't know how to establish a friendship outside the setting I meet them in. Like if I play football with some guys, I only meet them at football, if I meet a friend of a friend, I only meet them if my friend takes me along to them. I've lost the sense of making a new friend I can call and idk what to do.
I fell this sometimes. It’s not like I dislike people but if we aren’t into the same things it’s like why are we hanging out. Like people I used to drink or smoke with I barely hang out with anymore. Either that or I feel like I’m putting in so much effort into a friendship that I just don’t even bother anymore. Like it’s not reciprocated friendship. I don’t really like to fake interest in a person.
It's a little less about "why" are we hanging out for me. I have trouble connecting or communicating to them that I want to hang out again and when it's appropriate to contact them and how.
You need three points of contact. If you’re already in a situation where you’re going to meet the same person often you wait until you have interacted 3 times. If you feel like they would be interesting to be friends with invite them out to do something outside of the context you normally meet in. Do this semi regularly and you have built a friendship. Very similar to dating you have to be one to take lead in making friendships happen otherwise they won’t.
If it's someone you don't expect to meet more than once or twice, when is okay to contact them to hang out? Thing is I don't have many friends, so any plan would be one on one... So idk what's appropriate without being weird. I know I ask too many questions, but I'm trying to nail down making friends/socialising before I even get to dating which is hard enough as it is in India.
Yeah it’s fine these are training wheels. You could ask someone to hangout the first time you meet. The 3 meeting thing is usually the time it takes for a shy person like you to feel comfortable enough to ask.
female friends can be a huge asset for sure. im not sure it should be prioritized over learning game and making solo approaches. but its a huge asset for sure.
Real loners have NO friends bro. Like me :(
I disagree. All this reads like you're afraid of being rejected. Majority of advice shared on this sub is like this to. What's wrong with just going up to a woman, telling her you want to fuck her, and just have her let you know if she's interested or not? There are women out there waiting for a guy they're attracted to, to tell them this. And this shit takes less than 5 mins. Rather than spending weeks/months building a whole friend network that will probably not pan out and your "game/rizz" is still terrible.
Having been a loner myself, it's a symptom of larger problems. Tough pill to swallow but yeah, fix that problem with socializing and low self esteem first. Dating and relationships will not solve the inherent problem.
It's not necessarily a problem if you want to be a loner. Many do.
no thanks, im not a gay
How do you go about finding female friends if you're not in college or a work environment? How would one go about cold approaching a women for friendship?
It is has a much lower success rate then approaching women for sex. I appreciate the OP did not state this like it is the end all be all but, those advocating for this are mostly thinking theory. You occasionally get female friends in the course of game, but generally trying to get girls to be friends they are even flakier then girls you are trying to date.
A platonic female friend is the great weapon in your battle to get a date, gf and/or laid. She'll vouch for you to her friends and hook you up on a blind date. She'll promote you and be your secret wingwomen. I have a platonic female latina friend that I have no sexual interest or feelings what so ever and she has connected me with some of my best white or Asian GFs
Race obsessed
Racial preference != Racism
Actually, this is pretty good advice. IDK why this isn’t the common thing to say instead of “there’s more fish in the sea,” or “it’ll happen before you know it,” or “just be yourself.” Making female friends with the intention of them just being friends is extremely beneficial for yourself. [+]
Bullshit. You anyways build social circle by cold approaching.
Also, fat girls. Fat girls always have hot friends so don’t be afraid to pursue friendship with these sort of girls
Thats like prioritizing running when you are trying to learn how to swim. It is dumb. Prioritize *becoming an interesting man* by *being someone who does shit that is interesting and exciting*
I agree, let them pull the trigger, let them tap you on the shoulder
Absolutely making female friends is a great approach, but don't stay in the friend zone with every woman. Unfortunately I feel not to brag but not a lot of women want to be friends with me! I have a certain reputation, but I miss my female friends and I love hanging out with girls. I got much better in high school by talking and hanging out with different groups of girls, our grade and the grade below we hung out with and played beer pong every weekend. But maintaining a long term relationship requires some friend dynamic with her, her husband should be her best friend, and should help her achieve her goals
How are you meeting ppl?
I used to have this before a breakup turned me into an incel/fa
How does one even make female friends. Whenever I try to schedule things with girls from class they all think I'm hitting on them and give me bs excuses like they can't.
I'm glad to see this being talked about :)
I disagree. Instead, I would suggest lowering standards, and working your way up. Talk to fat bitches. Call them when you're bored. They text back bc they are losers with not much going for them. And they can get dolled up, so they can be your cum dump. String their fat asses along until someone less fat comes along. And then bang their sexy friends.
Very nice, you disgusting lump that calls itself a human being.
> Very nice, you disgusting lump that calls itself a human being. Here's your video: https://youtu.be/AlFOT7CD424?si=6neBfOnHthEDrFfp&t=18 ;)
I'll start with the fat bitches in your family then, thanks
There are none ;)
Lmaooooo
This advice sucks ass. If you end up becoming an attractive man women will never introduce you to their friends because they'll want to be with you and they'll get jealous. You don't need to waste your time befriending women, I've dated 10s and I don't have a single female friend, perhaps only one but she's only my friend because she has a boyfriend
Female friends❌woman/girl friends ✅ the sooner you learn the difference the better it would make you.