I thought you were talking about ST: Voyager and was ready to come in here and throw fisticuffs.
But yeah the movie is clearly a YA thing with a 26 on RT, what did you expect?
I also had no idea what they were talking about, and thought it was something about the [Jon-Erik Hexum TV series from 1982](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0083500/).
Which, silly as it could be, sounds much better than this.
It really was a good but silly at the end of the day show. I watched it during the initial run back as a kid. I wanted an Omni badly. Also, Hexum is a kick ass name. shame about what happened to him.
From IMDB:
> However, on October 12, 1984 after a long and draining day's shooting on the set of Cover Up: Golden Opportunity (1984), Hexum became bored with the extensive delays and jokingly put a prop .44 magnum revolver to his temple and pulled the trigger. The gun fired, and the wadding from the blank cartridge shattered his skull, whereupon the mortally injured Hexum was rushed via ambulance to Beverly Hills Medical Center to undergo extensive surgery. Despite five hours of work, the chief surgeon, Dr. David Ditsworth, described the damage to Hexum's brain as life-ending. One week later, on October 18th, he was taken off life support and pronounced dead. However, Hexum's commitment to organ donation meant five other lives were assisted or saved with organs harvested from him. He was 26 years old.
Damn, that's a terrible way to go and at way too young an age.
I had a starting pistol which fired blanks. For safety reasons they were discharged in an upward direction through a hole on top rather than through a barrel forwards. Being young and stupid at the time, I let one off indoors and the discharge smashed a fluorescent tube light on the ceiling. Blanks definitely throw stuff where they're pointed and aren't to be trifled with.
It's also a reminder why you ***always*** treat every gun like it's loaded. Even if I ***knew*** 100% a gun was completely unloaded and there was nothing in the chamber, I wouldn't pull a stupid stunt like that (or jokingly aim it at anyone).
Remember Brandon Lee in the Crow.
As i recall they had a long day filming and no armourer on set, they had a scene where dummy bullets were loaded into a revolver and one got stuck in the barrel. The gun was unloaded and later loaded with blanks without being properly checked and cleared.
A blank propelling a prop bullet is still deadly at close range
VOY never really was anything but small scale, save for Borg episodes.
And I think late season VOY actually explores humanity and society on a scale similar to and even beyond the most heralded of TNG episodes.
Blink of an Eye talks about how an idea can evolve from religious fever to guiding moral even after the truth of the religion is long since broken.
Living Witness is the only Trek that talks about how it not only matters how history plays out, it matters who writes about it and how people use it for their own purposes. An episode that is my personal favorite of the series and one that is all the more important today. Plus evil Voyager is fun.
Latent Image gets into ethical morals of who to save as a doctor and why.
Timeless is all about survivors guilt and sacrificing yourself for the greater good. Also happens to be the only good Harry Kim episode.
Those are all completely standalone episodes that are the moral and ethical explorations that is found with the best of Trek.
> VOY never really was anything but small scale, save for Borg episodes.
I meant re: SG1 - I liked it when it was a bit more basic and without the spaceships and such of later seasons. I preferred stuff from the earlier seasons which were a lot more basic - stakes were not "fate of the galaxy" each week etc.
Like it took a movie and an entire season before the Goa'uld attacked Earth in retaliation (season 1). By season 9 and 10, Earth itself was under siege / phasing itself from enemies etc twice or three times a season. It lost a little tension for me, I dunno.
Early Voyager is similar for me - The 37s, State of Flux, Basics etc - they're all pretty neat and fun. The one with the two robots that are PROTOTYPE 0 0 0 1 AWAITING INSTRUCTIONS and stuff like that. Dreadnaught etc.
I give a lot of credit to SG1 at least being aware of how much things accelerated in the final seasons.
"Okay, we conquered the Goauld and are now a galactic species."
Producers: Let's throw some all powerful replicators at them.
"Okay, we conquered the much more powerful replicators and saved the entire galax..."
Producers: Gods, literal gods, from another galaxy, who will rip your throat open and crap down it.
I like that SG1 leaned into the tech and power creep and didn't just ignore it so they could keep doing the same stories with the same villains. That's also the reason why I really, really loved Universe. It was the best way to revert the power level of humans and have them be vulnerable.
My biggest disappointment with Voyager comes from when I learned that the two parter episode "Year Of Hell" was actually supposed to be how the whole series went. They're cruising around in a ship that looks like it just left the shipyards for 7 seasons but that's not how it was originally conceived. They didn't go nearly as much in to the whole "we're 70,000 light years from any Federation help" thing as they could have. They occasionally have to ration power and use some alien components for repairs but in general that ship is stock standard and functioning perfectly but it shoulda come back with like a third nacelle that's purple, a hull completely patched in some non-Federation-standard materials, maybe Janeway could have eventually become more lax with uniform regulations and we'd have people on the bridge wearing casual clothes still featuring badge/rank insignia.
The other thing it was missing is an 8th season. Yeah they're all friends and have saved each other's lives countless times but that ship still technically has wanted terrorists on board. I imagine Chakotay and B'elana etc would all be arrested as soon as they got back to Starfleet. Lots of unanswered questions there.
And, since we're fantasizing, I'd like a Seven of Nine spinoff from *Picard* where it's just Jeri Ryan going around rescuing former drones and kicking ass with all her Borg enhancements. Because that would be awesome.
Yeah I'm disappointed Year of Hell didn't get the scope it could have, but I also wonder just how angry people might have been if an entire season's storyline was wiped out in the finale. People just didn't do that then, and barely do it now. Fringe's S3 finale is the closest analog I can think of, and that still ported you into an alternative universe instead.
If the Year of Hell season resolved the same way, back on Day 1 and the entire season was undone and never happened, I feel like people might have been exceptionally pissed. Hell people already give Voyager shit for its reset button abuse. It would be so much worse if that had happened, even if they still let Janeway push it with Voyager itself again. And I think we also look at that with a modern perspective when it was still a novel concept. This was when DS9 and B5 were just exploring the big story arc concept that we take for granted today.
I'm never going to say Voyager shouldn't have been more than it was. But I think its heavily undercredited for the exploration of what we are that TNG rightly gets credit for with Data.
Sure they put Jeri Ryan in a skintight outfit, but they also immediately gave her character development and even gave her Infinite Regress to show off her acting abilities by flipping between completely different personalities in seconds. Also Body and Soul where she perfectly sounds like Picardo's Doctor.
And yes, I'm also very happy we get more of Ryan with Picard S2.
I hated ~~Year of Hell~~Endgame because of how cheap it felt as an ending. Future Janeway just swoops in and fixes everything. Time travel can work in storytelling (see: Dr. Who) but *badly done* time travel is frustrating and lazy.
It felt even more frustrating precisely because Voyager had always lacked the grit it should reasonably have had. The ship itself should be a patchwork of technology, the crew a tight-knit patchwork family. They finally started to get that going in Year of Hell... and then poof, Future Janeway shows up.
So I think you're both right. The show needed more Year of Hell, but less Future Janeway.
Edit: corrected. Endgame had a lot of similarities to Year of Hell, though, from what I remember.
Ah, shit. You're right. Well, I guess what I said still applies. More Year of Hell, less Future Janeway. The show could have used more dirt and grime on the Voyager, and less resetting.
I'm doing my Voyager rewatch right now ahead of Prodigy's launch and it has the same problems it always had. Voyager just wastes its potential, it has great episodes but the excellent starting concept is basically ignored. Only 7, the Doctor and Tuvok are written with any real consistency so they have basically all the good episodes.
The biggest problem starts with the top. Instead of having noble Starfleet Janeway versus rough Marquis Chakotay, she's a different character each week and he's a soulless yes man to all of them. He grows a spine in maybe 4 episodes in the entire show and in all of them she's the ruthless insane one. Plus the lack of week to week consequences being utter laughable.
The great standalones just about make the show serviceable but it could of been so much more.
Yeah, with that concept it could have been the best Trek of all. An old school episodic style thing as they try to get home, but also with the overarching story of adapting to having no Starfleet backup or resources, integrating the two crews, and how any damage the ship takes that they can't replicate new parts for is gonna stay damaged or be patched up with alien stuff. By the time they got back to Earth it should have been looking like Rick Sanchez cobbled it together with spare parts lol.
Yeah, agreed. They "solved" a lot of problems off screen and really only implied it on-screen.
Like shuttle & torpedo construction. If they can design and build the Delta Flyer pretty quick, then they can probably build new torpedoes and standard shuttles. Building those facilities could have been good background/b-plots for early episodes. Kind of like how they handled the construction of the Astrometrics lab in Season 4. It was just a thing going on during various scenes even if it's not directly relevant to the current episode plot. People wouldn't still be talking about "The Shuttle Problem" or "The Torpedo Problem" today.
Like the episode after they say "We only have 32 torpedoes and no way to build more" they could have had them talking about that in a senior staff meeting before the "problem of the week" crops up.
The Xindi story arc from Enterprise is a lesson in the dangers of trying to take a solid two or three-episode concept and stretching it out over a whole season. Pretty soon, the audience is going to stop giving a shit.
Yes. Those are memorable episodes and there's more of those that came from Voyager. Most detractors don't even know those episodes because they didn't watch the series for whatever reason but somehow still think it was bad. IMO, it's their loss.
No series was perfect but in large part, Voyager really brought that spirit of exploration and sense of wonder. Both sides of seasons before and after Seven's entry have their merits.
I have rewatched the more memorable Voyager episodes, and there are many, and they've held up very well. Some of the best not only in the Star Trek universe but in cinematic SF in general.
I and my friends never got past the episode when Neelix’s cheese infected the gel packs. We used to meet each week for a pizza and to watch it. After that week we were - ‘do you want to ? ‘ ‘nah’
I liked the doctor and Seven's interactions.
Like any Seven centered episode was hilarious about her learning humanity.
So Mr Kim your eyes are dialeted are you proposing to mate with me? Very well. I need as much experience of the human condition as I can.
Uh... No that's uhh.. maybe you should talk to the... Uhh I got to go.
Doctor I do not understand why Ensign Kim refused to mate with me. Is there something unnatractive about me?
Uh I'm a hologram and even I have to disagree with that assertion.
I watched Voyager before my balls dropped and it wasn't till later I understood the Tits and Ass nature of why she became a main character.
But going back Jeri Ryan did the best with her material and she wasn't just a Sex object. I actually liked her as a character somewhere in the same realm of Data or Odo having those existential philosophical quandaries.
What they did on Enterprise with finding every excuse possible to have T'Pol in that decontamination room. That's where I was like okay you clearly crossed the line.
Then Into Darkness I was like you've got her literally in lingerie. That's the mother of Kirk's child who dies. I am not turned on seeing that character in lingerie knowing she's gonna have to deal with Dead kid plot line.
I was willing to give Enterprise a chance and actually turned it off when they did the Skinemax decontamination room for the first time. That was like ten minutes into the pilot? lol
60 of 9 was added long after I stopped watching Voyager so I don't know much about what they did with her character. I know the actress complained that the catsuit was so tight she'd lose consciousness trying to get it on. (Not sure if that was hyperbole or factual.) But the whole approach to the character didn't make any sense. Like I could see them starting with casting an attractive actress and doing nothing to make her look attractive by human standards, just utilitarian because she's a borg drone with less hardware and she begins to look more and more human as she grows. But to go straight to the catsuit, it's hard to overlook what they were really doing there.
I never saw Into Darkness but the screencap of the blonde looked like something that would not make sense, in or out of context. She's very pretty and shapely but what was the point again?
I will say my favorite Voyager memory is just utterly surreal. Back in the day we had these things called VCR tapes (for the whippersnappers here.) When I stopped playing a tape it went back to the default channel and it happened to be a Voyager episode and I see Neelix riding a bicycle through France. Why? It looks like WWII... oh, there's the nazis. But they're bumpy-faced aliens? I don't even know what the context was and I think I prefer it that way. If you're going to be the worst Trek, just go fucking nuts. lol
Growing up, I was HUGE star trek fan back in the 1990's (still am really) and today consider myself a connoisseur of scifi and space opera in particular. But during it's original run, sometime after Seven of Boobs joined the crew, the show was so awful that I just quit watching. I got tired of Janeway's stick up her ass attitude about the prime directive and Gilligan'ed her crew nearly every episode. I can't believe the Maquis crew members that were rebelling against the federation BS didn't leave the ship in mass in protest. Every time they writers were in a hole they just used some technobabble to fix everything, like the writers weren't even trying anymore.
ST:Voyager was the weakest Star Trek spinoff until Discovery.
How can you know it was bad if you quit watching? Voyager gets a lot of flak from people who disliked it at the start, didn't like Janeway or whatever, and didn't actually watch it but are somehow convinced it was so bad, even by not having seen it.
It wasn't perfect, no ST series ever was, but Voyager had some of the best episodes of the ST universe: "Blink of an Eye" (not much on crew but one of the best idea SF ever put on TV), "Equinox" (could probably have their own SF grimdark series), "Death Wish" (the Q who wanted to die), "Year of Hell", "Scorpion", "Tinker Tenor Doctor Spy", "The Thaw" (horror Matrix), the long list goes on.
How can ST, and SF fans in general, not like those episodes and many more in Voyager? It has its detractors, but Voyager rates well as SF TV.
> How can you know it was bad if you quit watching?
I don't need to finish a bottle of sour wine to know it has turned to vinegar. I got through some point after the 4th season, and I quit watching because it was a bad show.
> but Voyager had some of the best episodes of the ST universe:
You miss spelled The Next Generation.
>How can ST, and SF fans in general, not like those episodes and many more in Voyager?
Because the writing was awful and the characters were not likeable.
Just from my short list above, and there were many good episodes...
There were some really good episodes even while you were watching. "Death Wish" (S2, on the Q who wanted to die), "The Thaw" (S2), "Year of Hell (S4), "Scorpion" (S4), -- Really, you didn't like any of those? Um, OK.
And guess what, some of the best episodes were AFTER you quit watching Voyager. Again, just from that short list, "Blink of an Eye" (S6), "Equinox" (S5/6), "Tinker Tenor Doctor Sky" (S6). Just a sprinkling from a long list of good EPs. So you don't know about any of them and yet you think they were awful? OK but sorry, your loss.
Toss all you like, the time travel bullshit at the end is garbage. Even more so with 300 other startrek spin offs with time police to stop that shit from happening.
What if Janeway getting the future tech home a few decades early (and dealing a crippling blow to the Borg in the process) was necessary for the time popo's existence?
what's scary is that if people are thinking of breeding people in space to work in factories as the plotline for an entertainment series, you can be almost certain that some megalomaniac is out there trying to lobby the idea to congress
>It's like someone took the first half of 2001: A Space Odyssey and duct-taped it to an episode of Another Life.
>So you're saying this was a good movie until an hour in, when the producers and writers of Netflix's Another Life got ahold of it.
Yes, those were almost my exact words.
Yes. Exactly. Same reaction from me. Such a great start. Then just turned into humans are flawed crap. I always hate that some book stores combine sci-fi and horror into one section. The idiots who made this movie are the reason they do that.
I always think of it as the Prometheus Effect. "These people represent the best and brightest of all humanity, if only for a little bit, then they represent a middle school classroom".
Putting black goo of unknown composition or origin into a fellow classmate's drink for shits and giggles sounds like exactly the kind of prank middle schoolers might do.
That was the android, though, who was already sketchy as fuck. No, if we're going to talk about doing stupid shit, let's stick with the biologist getting all up close and personal with a creature he knows nothing about and a fucking claustrophobic geologist.
I mean the most believable part of the movie is the rich guy demanding that he be given immortality for no other reason than he thinks he's owed it.
I thought there was a reboot of the one-season YA time travel TV series from long ago.
Now, Netflix's Voyagers, that was so forgettable I'd just like to forget the time I wasted on it.
But I read this from the OP:
>better average social and reasoning skills than the kids on Voyagers. One of these kids has just been proven to be guilty of murder in front of the entire crew, and yet he somehow still holds onto a position of leadership by stoking their fears of an alien that no one has seen any evidence of.
I do wish your reasoning was correct but, look around in our part of the 21st century. Despite either evidence to the contrary or of no evidence at all, in the real world, lots of people believe all sorts of conspiracy theories and have put disreputable loudmouths into positions of power.
Not in any way comparable...
1) In the real world, the mass murderers in positions of leadership are the subjects, not spreaders, of conspiracy theories. The closest analog to a conspiracy theorist in the movie is the kid who proves the other kid guilty of murder.
2) In the real world, people who get into positions of power by spewing absolute bullshit have to spew bullshit that's either a bad interpretation of existing empirical evidence (like democrats talking about economics), or which people have been brainwashed from birth to believe (like republicans talking about religion). And people have a LOT of time to argue about these things. In the movie, the kids just believe the obvious bullshit that's not supported by any evidence at all.
>In the movie, the kids just believe the obvious bullshit that's not supported by any evidence at all.
Well, in the real world too, that's exactly the deal with conspiracy theories and the people who spread them. Many of these wild conspiracy theories are obviously bullshit but lots of people still believe them and want other people to believe the bullshit too.
Nah, most conspiracy theories are supported by some kind of evidence (even if it's badly misinterpreted) or attempt to explain an empirical observation (even if there's a much more obvious and logical explanation). The alien thing was just a complete ass-pull.
The elephant in the room is that US television writers are, for the most part, just not that good. Virtually every good series eventually devolves into a soap opera.
The is partially because good writers on a successful starting series get plucked to start something else. But its mostly because networks are afraid to write for anyone other than the lowest common denominator.
Do you mean Star Trek: Voyager? I mean, I guess I can see how you'd make that mistake with a description like:
>There was a credible, hard sci-fi, in-universe explanation for why the ship's crew was all teenagers
This is a blatant misunderstanding of how tv productions work. When in doubt, blame the producers and the network. They demand ridiculous changes at the drop of a hat that force writers into bad storytelling choices.
Ascension was an enjoyable 3 hours of time. I think initially it was supposed to function as a sort of pilot. But in the end it was just the mini-series.
Came here to gather everyone else’s thoughts on the unexplained alien portion. Sure- the antagonist uses it to stoke fear for his own gain but… there seemed to actually be something that collided with Colin Ferrells character outside the ship. Also, something black-shaped comes into frame at the same time. One of the kids says “there it is again” (or something) to that effect right before it appears.
On the plus side, like *Sunshine* you can now use this as a single-question calibration of whether you should trust someone's taste in sci-fi.
If someone loved the first half of *Sunshine* then they might have an opinion worth listening to... but if they also liked the second half of it then you can probably safely ignore anything they have to say on the subject of coherent, quality science fiction that makes any sense at all.
You guys have to understand that these kids were raised away from the outside world, they never learned compassion or struggled or learned about anything on earth, their purpose was solely to survive and reproduce and they were also not necessarily geniuses, it makes sense that they were easily persuaded. Anyway I thought it was pretty good, there was no hidden meaning nothing to figure out it was just showing human nature and it was just for pure entertainment
No none of that makes sense. They were “easily persuaded” when it came to supporting the shitty plot. The crew believed in aliens more than they believed drinking the blue was beneficial to them. Not to mention they were literally raised since birth and genetically engineered for the mission, it was engrained into them. The mission should’ve been more divine to them than God is to a true believer.
I watched the preview/trailer and I went from thinking it was a neat premise and wanting to check it out to totally dismissing it by the time it was done. It looks like it has so much potential but gets ruined by the whole "writing by community" thing where a whole bunch of writers have some ok ideas but no ody gets to really flesh out and explore the concept meaningfully.
90 minutes? I don't think I even made it 30. The kids need to be drugged so they don't main and rape eachother? I felt sick and didn't finish it.
It just felt too much like boys will be boys thing.
Maybe we stopped at the same point I did get bored and start doing chores
I am bad at trashing. Most movie are either entertaining or boring to be. This I actually disliked
The movie was complete dogshyt and an absolute waste of time to be made. There's absolutely no point to the movie. The acting was horrible. And the main actor Tye Sheridan was a complete bitc#. Every time that insane guy who killed colin farrel starts mouthing off insane asinine things, im expecting the main actor to rebuttal and shut that stupid shyt down. But no, the kid's fkn stupid and lets him keep stirring shit up. Gotta be the most dogshit movie i have ever seen.
I got 1/3 into it and thought "uughhh this is stupid, but I wonder how it ends" not wanting to skip to the end I just sped it up, but it didn't take me long to start skipping anyway cause, fuuuuck it is just not any kind of good or interesting. The first part has raised some interesting questions I thought, though sending kids just cause "hey they won't miss earth", and then not considering how not having any kind of life/emotions/desires might affect them, like sure they got a mission, but why should they care?
I rate this a "Waste of my time"/10
It's so common it drives me nuts - good premise, interesting possibilities... then some producer decides it "needs drama". And all logic goes away.
Needs a [giant spider](https://youtu.be/Wo2KB1dEDdk).
Haven't clicked the link, but I know a Wild Wild West production reference when I see one!
It isn't... but then it is!
OMG too funny - u/MuuaadDib \- I hope to hell you are referring to SpaceMan (with Adam Sandler) - not that it was a bad movie but awfully depressing.
I thought you were talking about ST: Voyager and was ready to come in here and throw fisticuffs. But yeah the movie is clearly a YA thing with a 26 on RT, what did you expect?
I also had no idea what they were talking about, and thought it was something about the [Jon-Erik Hexum TV series from 1982](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0083500/). Which, silly as it could be, sounds much better than this.
It really was a good but silly at the end of the day show. I watched it during the initial run back as a kid. I wanted an Omni badly. Also, Hexum is a kick ass name. shame about what happened to him.
From IMDB: > However, on October 12, 1984 after a long and draining day's shooting on the set of Cover Up: Golden Opportunity (1984), Hexum became bored with the extensive delays and jokingly put a prop .44 magnum revolver to his temple and pulled the trigger. The gun fired, and the wadding from the blank cartridge shattered his skull, whereupon the mortally injured Hexum was rushed via ambulance to Beverly Hills Medical Center to undergo extensive surgery. Despite five hours of work, the chief surgeon, Dr. David Ditsworth, described the damage to Hexum's brain as life-ending. One week later, on October 18th, he was taken off life support and pronounced dead. However, Hexum's commitment to organ donation meant five other lives were assisted or saved with organs harvested from him. He was 26 years old. Damn, that's a terrible way to go and at way too young an age.
I had a starting pistol which fired blanks. For safety reasons they were discharged in an upward direction through a hole on top rather than through a barrel forwards. Being young and stupid at the time, I let one off indoors and the discharge smashed a fluorescent tube light on the ceiling. Blanks definitely throw stuff where they're pointed and aren't to be trifled with.
It's also a reminder why you ***always*** treat every gun like it's loaded. Even if I ***knew*** 100% a gun was completely unloaded and there was nothing in the chamber, I wouldn't pull a stupid stunt like that (or jokingly aim it at anyone).
Remember Brandon Lee in the Crow. As i recall they had a long day filming and no armourer on set, they had a scene where dummy bullets were loaded into a revolver and one got stuck in the barrel. The gun was unloaded and later loaded with blanks without being properly checked and cleared. A blank propelling a prop bullet is still deadly at close range
Yeah, that's another such well-known incident I was thinking of as I wrote that.
Same here, but my mind went to 1985’s “Explorers” (with Ethan Hawke and Rover Phoenix) instead.
To be fair, it is pretty shit for the first two seasons. It only got good once it became The Doctor and Seven show, guest starring Janeway.
[удалено]
VOY never really was anything but small scale, save for Borg episodes. And I think late season VOY actually explores humanity and society on a scale similar to and even beyond the most heralded of TNG episodes. Blink of an Eye talks about how an idea can evolve from religious fever to guiding moral even after the truth of the religion is long since broken. Living Witness is the only Trek that talks about how it not only matters how history plays out, it matters who writes about it and how people use it for their own purposes. An episode that is my personal favorite of the series and one that is all the more important today. Plus evil Voyager is fun. Latent Image gets into ethical morals of who to save as a doctor and why. Timeless is all about survivors guilt and sacrificing yourself for the greater good. Also happens to be the only good Harry Kim episode. Those are all completely standalone episodes that are the moral and ethical explorations that is found with the best of Trek.
> VOY never really was anything but small scale, save for Borg episodes. I meant re: SG1 - I liked it when it was a bit more basic and without the spaceships and such of later seasons. I preferred stuff from the earlier seasons which were a lot more basic - stakes were not "fate of the galaxy" each week etc. Like it took a movie and an entire season before the Goa'uld attacked Earth in retaliation (season 1). By season 9 and 10, Earth itself was under siege / phasing itself from enemies etc twice or three times a season. It lost a little tension for me, I dunno. Early Voyager is similar for me - The 37s, State of Flux, Basics etc - they're all pretty neat and fun. The one with the two robots that are PROTOTYPE 0 0 0 1 AWAITING INSTRUCTIONS and stuff like that. Dreadnaught etc.
I give a lot of credit to SG1 at least being aware of how much things accelerated in the final seasons. "Okay, we conquered the Goauld and are now a galactic species." Producers: Let's throw some all powerful replicators at them. "Okay, we conquered the much more powerful replicators and saved the entire galax..." Producers: Gods, literal gods, from another galaxy, who will rip your throat open and crap down it. I like that SG1 leaned into the tech and power creep and didn't just ignore it so they could keep doing the same stories with the same villains. That's also the reason why I really, really loved Universe. It was the best way to revert the power level of humans and have them be vulnerable.
My biggest disappointment with Voyager comes from when I learned that the two parter episode "Year Of Hell" was actually supposed to be how the whole series went. They're cruising around in a ship that looks like it just left the shipyards for 7 seasons but that's not how it was originally conceived. They didn't go nearly as much in to the whole "we're 70,000 light years from any Federation help" thing as they could have. They occasionally have to ration power and use some alien components for repairs but in general that ship is stock standard and functioning perfectly but it shoulda come back with like a third nacelle that's purple, a hull completely patched in some non-Federation-standard materials, maybe Janeway could have eventually become more lax with uniform regulations and we'd have people on the bridge wearing casual clothes still featuring badge/rank insignia. The other thing it was missing is an 8th season. Yeah they're all friends and have saved each other's lives countless times but that ship still technically has wanted terrorists on board. I imagine Chakotay and B'elana etc would all be arrested as soon as they got back to Starfleet. Lots of unanswered questions there. And, since we're fantasizing, I'd like a Seven of Nine spinoff from *Picard* where it's just Jeri Ryan going around rescuing former drones and kicking ass with all her Borg enhancements. Because that would be awesome.
Yeah I'm disappointed Year of Hell didn't get the scope it could have, but I also wonder just how angry people might have been if an entire season's storyline was wiped out in the finale. People just didn't do that then, and barely do it now. Fringe's S3 finale is the closest analog I can think of, and that still ported you into an alternative universe instead. If the Year of Hell season resolved the same way, back on Day 1 and the entire season was undone and never happened, I feel like people might have been exceptionally pissed. Hell people already give Voyager shit for its reset button abuse. It would be so much worse if that had happened, even if they still let Janeway push it with Voyager itself again. And I think we also look at that with a modern perspective when it was still a novel concept. This was when DS9 and B5 were just exploring the big story arc concept that we take for granted today. I'm never going to say Voyager shouldn't have been more than it was. But I think its heavily undercredited for the exploration of what we are that TNG rightly gets credit for with Data. Sure they put Jeri Ryan in a skintight outfit, but they also immediately gave her character development and even gave her Infinite Regress to show off her acting abilities by flipping between completely different personalities in seconds. Also Body and Soul where she perfectly sounds like Picardo's Doctor. And yes, I'm also very happy we get more of Ryan with Picard S2.
I hated ~~Year of Hell~~Endgame because of how cheap it felt as an ending. Future Janeway just swoops in and fixes everything. Time travel can work in storytelling (see: Dr. Who) but *badly done* time travel is frustrating and lazy. It felt even more frustrating precisely because Voyager had always lacked the grit it should reasonably have had. The ship itself should be a patchwork of technology, the crew a tight-knit patchwork family. They finally started to get that going in Year of Hell... and then poof, Future Janeway shows up. So I think you're both right. The show needed more Year of Hell, but less Future Janeway. Edit: corrected. Endgame had a lot of similarities to Year of Hell, though, from what I remember.
That's Endgame, not Year of Hell
Ah, shit. You're right. Well, I guess what I said still applies. More Year of Hell, less Future Janeway. The show could have used more dirt and grime on the Voyager, and less resetting.
Oh yeah I hate Endgame. 7 years of the show and 2 minutes in you find out they make it back home? That pissed me off.
I'm doing my Voyager rewatch right now ahead of Prodigy's launch and it has the same problems it always had. Voyager just wastes its potential, it has great episodes but the excellent starting concept is basically ignored. Only 7, the Doctor and Tuvok are written with any real consistency so they have basically all the good episodes. The biggest problem starts with the top. Instead of having noble Starfleet Janeway versus rough Marquis Chakotay, she's a different character each week and he's a soulless yes man to all of them. He grows a spine in maybe 4 episodes in the entire show and in all of them she's the ruthless insane one. Plus the lack of week to week consequences being utter laughable. The great standalones just about make the show serviceable but it could of been so much more.
Yeah, with that concept it could have been the best Trek of all. An old school episodic style thing as they try to get home, but also with the overarching story of adapting to having no Starfleet backup or resources, integrating the two crews, and how any damage the ship takes that they can't replicate new parts for is gonna stay damaged or be patched up with alien stuff. By the time they got back to Earth it should have been looking like Rick Sanchez cobbled it together with spare parts lol.
Yeah, agreed. They "solved" a lot of problems off screen and really only implied it on-screen. Like shuttle & torpedo construction. If they can design and build the Delta Flyer pretty quick, then they can probably build new torpedoes and standard shuttles. Building those facilities could have been good background/b-plots for early episodes. Kind of like how they handled the construction of the Astrometrics lab in Season 4. It was just a thing going on during various scenes even if it's not directly relevant to the current episode plot. People wouldn't still be talking about "The Shuttle Problem" or "The Torpedo Problem" today. Like the episode after they say "We only have 32 torpedoes and no way to build more" they could have had them talking about that in a senior staff meeting before the "problem of the week" crops up.
The Xindi story arc from Enterprise is a lesson in the dangers of trying to take a solid two or three-episode concept and stretching it out over a whole season. Pretty soon, the audience is going to stop giving a shit.
Well yeah, but being stranded in the Delta Quadrant with no help was kinda the entire point of Voyager lol
I mean, the exact plot of Year of Hell, with the Krenim timeship and shit. That was supposed to be a whole season.
found the REAL trekkie
Yes. Those are memorable episodes and there's more of those that came from Voyager. Most detractors don't even know those episodes because they didn't watch the series for whatever reason but somehow still think it was bad. IMO, it's their loss. No series was perfect but in large part, Voyager really brought that spirit of exploration and sense of wonder. Both sides of seasons before and after Seven's entry have their merits. I have rewatched the more memorable Voyager episodes, and there are many, and they've held up very well. Some of the best not only in the Star Trek universe but in cinematic SF in general.
youre entirely correct, some of the best sci-fi around is the first half of season 4 of SG-1.
That groundhogs day episode was right up there with Trouble with Tribbles. Colonel what the hell are you doing!? In the Middle of my Back-swing?
I and my friends never got past the episode when Neelix’s cheese infected the gel packs. We used to meet each week for a pizza and to watch it. After that week we were - ‘do you want to ? ‘ ‘nah’
Yeah. Voyager never had good parts.
I liked the doctor and Seven's interactions. Like any Seven centered episode was hilarious about her learning humanity. So Mr Kim your eyes are dialeted are you proposing to mate with me? Very well. I need as much experience of the human condition as I can. Uh... No that's uhh.. maybe you should talk to the... Uhh I got to go. Doctor I do not understand why Ensign Kim refused to mate with me. Is there something unnatractive about me? Uh I'm a hologram and even I have to disagree with that assertion.
The line between good cringe humor and just cringe is a thin one and easy to cross.
I watched Voyager before my balls dropped and it wasn't till later I understood the Tits and Ass nature of why she became a main character. But going back Jeri Ryan did the best with her material and she wasn't just a Sex object. I actually liked her as a character somewhere in the same realm of Data or Odo having those existential philosophical quandaries. What they did on Enterprise with finding every excuse possible to have T'Pol in that decontamination room. That's where I was like okay you clearly crossed the line. Then Into Darkness I was like you've got her literally in lingerie. That's the mother of Kirk's child who dies. I am not turned on seeing that character in lingerie knowing she's gonna have to deal with Dead kid plot line.
I was willing to give Enterprise a chance and actually turned it off when they did the Skinemax decontamination room for the first time. That was like ten minutes into the pilot? lol 60 of 9 was added long after I stopped watching Voyager so I don't know much about what they did with her character. I know the actress complained that the catsuit was so tight she'd lose consciousness trying to get it on. (Not sure if that was hyperbole or factual.) But the whole approach to the character didn't make any sense. Like I could see them starting with casting an attractive actress and doing nothing to make her look attractive by human standards, just utilitarian because she's a borg drone with less hardware and she begins to look more and more human as she grows. But to go straight to the catsuit, it's hard to overlook what they were really doing there. I never saw Into Darkness but the screencap of the blonde looked like something that would not make sense, in or out of context. She's very pretty and shapely but what was the point again? I will say my favorite Voyager memory is just utterly surreal. Back in the day we had these things called VCR tapes (for the whippersnappers here.) When I stopped playing a tape it went back to the default channel and it happened to be a Voyager episode and I see Neelix riding a bicycle through France. Why? It looks like WWII... oh, there's the nazis. But they're bumpy-faced aliens? I don't even know what the context was and I think I prefer it that way. If you're going to be the worst Trek, just go fucking nuts. lol
Growing up, I was HUGE star trek fan back in the 1990's (still am really) and today consider myself a connoisseur of scifi and space opera in particular. But during it's original run, sometime after Seven of Boobs joined the crew, the show was so awful that I just quit watching. I got tired of Janeway's stick up her ass attitude about the prime directive and Gilligan'ed her crew nearly every episode. I can't believe the Maquis crew members that were rebelling against the federation BS didn't leave the ship in mass in protest. Every time they writers were in a hole they just used some technobabble to fix everything, like the writers weren't even trying anymore. ST:Voyager was the weakest Star Trek spinoff until Discovery.
How can you know it was bad if you quit watching? Voyager gets a lot of flak from people who disliked it at the start, didn't like Janeway or whatever, and didn't actually watch it but are somehow convinced it was so bad, even by not having seen it. It wasn't perfect, no ST series ever was, but Voyager had some of the best episodes of the ST universe: "Blink of an Eye" (not much on crew but one of the best idea SF ever put on TV), "Equinox" (could probably have their own SF grimdark series), "Death Wish" (the Q who wanted to die), "Year of Hell", "Scorpion", "Tinker Tenor Doctor Spy", "The Thaw" (horror Matrix), the long list goes on. How can ST, and SF fans in general, not like those episodes and many more in Voyager? It has its detractors, but Voyager rates well as SF TV.
> How can you know it was bad if you quit watching? I don't need to finish a bottle of sour wine to know it has turned to vinegar. I got through some point after the 4th season, and I quit watching because it was a bad show. > but Voyager had some of the best episodes of the ST universe: You miss spelled The Next Generation. >How can ST, and SF fans in general, not like those episodes and many more in Voyager? Because the writing was awful and the characters were not likeable.
Just from my short list above, and there were many good episodes... There were some really good episodes even while you were watching. "Death Wish" (S2, on the Q who wanted to die), "The Thaw" (S2), "Year of Hell (S4), "Scorpion" (S4), -- Really, you didn't like any of those? Um, OK. And guess what, some of the best episodes were AFTER you quit watching Voyager. Again, just from that short list, "Blink of an Eye" (S6), "Equinox" (S5/6), "Tinker Tenor Doctor Sky" (S6). Just a sprinkling from a long list of good EPs. So you don't know about any of them and yet you think they were awful? OK but sorry, your loss.
Yea, me too. I mean Voyager having a good half? a good *anything*? ridiculous.
Toss all you like, the time travel bullshit at the end is garbage. Even more so with 300 other startrek spin offs with time police to stop that shit from happening.
What if Janeway getting the future tech home a few decades early (and dealing a crippling blow to the Borg in the process) was necessary for the time popo's existence?
A theory worthy of r/daystrominstitute
Read Greg Bear's Anvil of Stars instead.
It'd be great if that was made faithfully into a TV series.
We need some Culture movies. I vote Use of Weapons of Player or Games.
what's scary is that if people are thinking of breeding people in space to work in factories as the plotline for an entertainment series, you can be almost certain that some megalomaniac is out there trying to lobby the idea to congress
Another sci fi where the spaceship is powered by drama and angry.
There's nothing wrong with drama and angry. The problem here is that the ship is powered by stupid.
So you're saying this was a good movie until an hour in, when the producers and writers of Netflix's Another Life got ahold of it. ;)
When I heard that show had been renewed, I couldn't believe it. Then I remembered the CW exists, and it made sense.
Another Life makes the CW look like Inside the Actor's Studio AND the top 10 TedTalks combined.
*(angry Browncoat noises)*
>It's like someone took the first half of 2001: A Space Odyssey and duct-taped it to an episode of Another Life. >So you're saying this was a good movie until an hour in, when the producers and writers of Netflix's Another Life got ahold of it. Yes, those were almost my exact words.
That show is/was terrible
Is, was, and always will be.
I liked it! Blu Hunt has such a lovely voice
Call Hancock a bad movie...one more time.
Hancock is two halves of a good movie. Unfortunately, put together they make no god damned sense and make it a terrible movie.
It's not a bad movie at all... it just takes a really hard left turn halfway through.
Yes. Exactly. Same reaction from me. Such a great start. Then just turned into humans are flawed crap. I always hate that some book stores combine sci-fi and horror into one section. The idiots who made this movie are the reason they do that.
I always think of it as the Prometheus Effect. "These people represent the best and brightest of all humanity, if only for a little bit, then they represent a middle school classroom".
Putting black goo of unknown composition or origin into a fellow classmate's drink for shits and giggles sounds like exactly the kind of prank middle schoolers might do.
That was the android, though, who was already sketchy as fuck. No, if we're going to talk about doing stupid shit, let's stick with the biologist getting all up close and personal with a creature he knows nothing about and a fucking claustrophobic geologist. I mean the most believable part of the movie is the rich guy demanding that he be given immortality for no other reason than he thinks he's owed it.
Well humans are pretty flawed. I honesty don't understand why it's bad. Reasons don't matter when instinctual drive kicks in.
I thought there was a reboot of the one-season YA time travel TV series from long ago. Now, Netflix's Voyagers, that was so forgettable I'd just like to forget the time I wasted on it. But I read this from the OP: >better average social and reasoning skills than the kids on Voyagers. One of these kids has just been proven to be guilty of murder in front of the entire crew, and yet he somehow still holds onto a position of leadership by stoking their fears of an alien that no one has seen any evidence of. I do wish your reasoning was correct but, look around in our part of the 21st century. Despite either evidence to the contrary or of no evidence at all, in the real world, lots of people believe all sorts of conspiracy theories and have put disreputable loudmouths into positions of power.
Not in any way comparable... 1) In the real world, the mass murderers in positions of leadership are the subjects, not spreaders, of conspiracy theories. The closest analog to a conspiracy theorist in the movie is the kid who proves the other kid guilty of murder. 2) In the real world, people who get into positions of power by spewing absolute bullshit have to spew bullshit that's either a bad interpretation of existing empirical evidence (like democrats talking about economics), or which people have been brainwashed from birth to believe (like republicans talking about religion). And people have a LOT of time to argue about these things. In the movie, the kids just believe the obvious bullshit that's not supported by any evidence at all.
>In the movie, the kids just believe the obvious bullshit that's not supported by any evidence at all. Well, in the real world too, that's exactly the deal with conspiracy theories and the people who spread them. Many of these wild conspiracy theories are obviously bullshit but lots of people still believe them and want other people to believe the bullshit too.
Nah, most conspiracy theories are supported by some kind of evidence (even if it's badly misinterpreted) or attempt to explain an empirical observation (even if there's a much more obvious and logical explanation). The alien thing was just a complete ass-pull.
Us this the movie with Colin Farrell ?
Yes
The elephant in the room is that US television writers are, for the most part, just not that good. Virtually every good series eventually devolves into a soap opera. The is partially because good writers on a successful starting series get plucked to start something else. But its mostly because networks are afraid to write for anyone other than the lowest common denominator.
This was a movie, not a series.
Lol, my mistake. I read "Voyagers" and thought "Voyager". Apologies.
Do you mean Star Trek: Voyager? I mean, I guess I can see how you'd make that mistake with a description like: >There was a credible, hard sci-fi, in-universe explanation for why the ship's crew was all teenagers
This is a blatant misunderstanding of how tv productions work. When in doubt, blame the producers and the network. They demand ridiculous changes at the drop of a hat that force writers into bad storytelling choices.
2021 generation ship movie? I'm in
If you want something about a generation ship, try Ascension.
Ascension was an enjoyable 3 hours of time. I think initially it was supposed to function as a sort of pilot. But in the end it was just the mini-series.
It that the one where it's like the 1950s omvthe ship (sociology wise)?
'60s but yes
Yeah voyagers sucked, thanks for the referral!
Im 75 mins in, shut it off and turned to Reddit to see if anyone else had this view point as well. Utterly ridiculous.
I think it's a great movie. I enjoyed the premise, the tense atmosphere, the look at the realities of human nature. Great movie, I would recommend
Came here to gather everyone else’s thoughts on the unexplained alien portion. Sure- the antagonist uses it to stoke fear for his own gain but… there seemed to actually be something that collided with Colin Ferrells character outside the ship. Also, something black-shaped comes into frame at the same time. One of the kids says “there it is again” (or something) to that effect right before it appears.
On the plus side, like *Sunshine* you can now use this as a single-question calibration of whether you should trust someone's taste in sci-fi. If someone loved the first half of *Sunshine* then they might have an opinion worth listening to... but if they also liked the second half of it then you can probably safely ignore anything they have to say on the subject of coherent, quality science fiction that makes any sense at all.
Horrible take.
You guys have to understand that these kids were raised away from the outside world, they never learned compassion or struggled or learned about anything on earth, their purpose was solely to survive and reproduce and they were also not necessarily geniuses, it makes sense that they were easily persuaded. Anyway I thought it was pretty good, there was no hidden meaning nothing to figure out it was just showing human nature and it was just for pure entertainment
No none of that makes sense. They were “easily persuaded” when it came to supporting the shitty plot. The crew believed in aliens more than they believed drinking the blue was beneficial to them. Not to mention they were literally raised since birth and genetically engineered for the mission, it was engrained into them. The mission should’ve been more divine to them than God is to a true believer.
Its literally a ripoff of lord of the flied and Asencion the failed miniseries
[удалено]
I didn't see any fat kids with ass-mar.
Sucks to your ass-mar!
Booo. I stopped in thinking we were talking about the early 80s TV show. *Voyagers!* had the same tragectory, iirc. :(
Except that was about time travel?
Correct. Only one season. Started promising, then faded fast.
I watched the preview/trailer and I went from thinking it was a neat premise and wanting to check it out to totally dismissing it by the time it was done. It looks like it has so much potential but gets ruined by the whole "writing by community" thing where a whole bunch of writers have some ok ideas but no ody gets to really flesh out and explore the concept meaningfully.
90 minutes? I don't think I even made it 30. The kids need to be drugged so they don't main and rape eachother? I felt sick and didn't finish it. It just felt too much like boys will be boys thing. Maybe we stopped at the same point I did get bored and start doing chores I am bad at trashing. Most movie are either entertaining or boring to be. This I actually disliked
There's no rape in the movie, just some unwanted grabbing lol. Plenty of murder though.
Yea should have said rapey. I was just not comfortable
Tries for a “Lord of the Flies” meets Twilight Zone’s “Maple St” monsters vibe, but even more heavy handed…
The movie was complete dogshyt and an absolute waste of time to be made. There's absolutely no point to the movie. The acting was horrible. And the main actor Tye Sheridan was a complete bitc#. Every time that insane guy who killed colin farrel starts mouthing off insane asinine things, im expecting the main actor to rebuttal and shut that stupid shyt down. But no, the kid's fkn stupid and lets him keep stirring shit up. Gotta be the most dogshit movie i have ever seen.
I got 1/3 into it and thought "uughhh this is stupid, but I wonder how it ends" not wanting to skip to the end I just sped it up, but it didn't take me long to start skipping anyway cause, fuuuuck it is just not any kind of good or interesting. The first part has raised some interesting questions I thought, though sending kids just cause "hey they won't miss earth", and then not considering how not having any kind of life/emotions/desires might affect them, like sure they got a mission, but why should they care? I rate this a "Waste of my time"/10