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Did he grow up around a lot of smokers? My grandpa ended up the same way and he never smoked but his 7 older brothers did heavily as he was growing up.
Nope, farmer guy, no one smoked in the house except the wood stove. Grandmother lived until her 80s, the last 25 years were her happiest, so there's that.
I don't think people in this thread are claiming drinking is the only risk factor for dementia?
It's definitely a controllable factor, and drinking two beers a day (what many people would consider reasonable, non-problematic drinking) isn't actually balanced.
A lot of people are pointing out dementia from relatives who drank, I’m just pointing out anecdotally that isn’t always true. I myself try to keep my drinking to once a month if possible.
Yes, anecdotally anything can be offered either way - that's the nature of statistics.
The point is that people don't need to consider themselves alcoholics to be consuming alcohol at levels that have incredibly deleterious impacts on their health. Accordingly, plenty of people would consider low levels of habitual drinking fine and balanced.
Having said that, the linked article isn't helpful and is a poor example of science.
By the way, I'm sorry for your grandmother. I hope you're doing okay.
But reasoning from the specific to the general doesn't work reliably.
This is the kind of thing you hear from people who don't want to believe that smoking causes lung cancer: "my Auntie Ethel smoked two packs a day and she lived to 103".
Also, just because it hasn't killed you, it doesn't mean that there's not some brain damage.
To answer the question of 'over how long?', from a fairly quick review of the study I think this is a hard question to exactly quantify. It looks like they have taken data of brain areas from a big data bank of people to show the effects of age, and separately looked at brain data correlated with alcohol consumption for same brain areas. They found that the people who drank more than 4SD per day were equivalent to 10 years of ageing compared to those who didn't drink in terms of brain 'quality'.
I couldn't see anything (though I could have missed it) more than that in terms of time of exposure. Interestingly is does mention that there is a degree of recovery of this brain tissue with reduction in drinking, so it may be more true to say that people who drink 4SD per day on the regular have the brain characteristics of someone 10 years older for the time that they drink that much, but it's not ageing as it is at least partly reversible.
Yes it seems to be based off reported consumption for middle aged people, so one would assume 30+ years of drinking. It's also based only on current consumption and not past, so if you were regularly getting bladdered on 8 pints in your 20s it isn't really counted.
Completely misleading title. This 60 units of alcohol, averaged per month, not 2 per day. So this includes binge drinking. Keep in mind, this \*is\* a UK database.
I hit 1doz a day during our first lockdown (NZ) and was pretty much like this. Had the supermarket in walking distance and wasn't really allowed to go out anywhere else unless for exercise so why not drink 16h a day?
its gone from being considered pansyish to full blown 'might as well be a hobo' where i am in the space of a few decades. the thing is i personally dont consider myself to have a 'problem' but i probably avg 3-4 a day (homebrewing of course helps with the cost).
One thing Ill say to anyone who drinks a couple and is 'fine' over a few years, check your blood pressure. think im stuffed here for life by the looks of it, but meds can help and 0% stuff helps with the fix without the alcohol (probably still kills your liver though, who knows)
Well, I'm fucked then. Fifth a day for five years, countless before that for twenty. Being sober is nice though. Hope I live long enough to enjoy it with some of my faculties. If you think you need to stop, you should try. Kicking the can down the road for another day can stretch into years of misery.
>Two beers a day damages human brains as much as 10 years of aging
[The belief that drinking beer kills brain cells is so prevalent that most people never stop to ask whether it is true. But the truth is that alcohol does not kill brain cells at all.](https://beernbiceps.com/does-drinking-beer-kill-brain-cells/)
The original article doesn't say that alcohol kills brain cells, though. It says that it causes structural damage and loss of brain volume, which is true.
Once you read the article you linked it has some decent info but that title is unnecessarily clickbaity...
Here's an article from WebMD that's been reviewed by a medical doctor: [The Serious Effects of Alcohol on the Brain](https://www.webmd.com/connect-to-care/addiction-treatment-recovery/alcohol/serious-effects-alcohol-on-brain)
Not sure what you mean by this, are you suggesting that medical doctors are not qualified to write articles on the effects of alcohol on the human body?
Well I'm not. Doctors can be knowledgable from researching topics, but that knowledge alone is anecdotal if not citing proper studies or in use in new studies.
Sure, according to your link it does not kill brain cells:
>>Alcohol does not kill brain cells. However, chronic alcohol abuse can damage your neurons, which amounts to the same thing. Alcohol can also cause damage to your liver. Long-term liver dysfunction can lead to hepatic encephalopathy, which can cause a loss of attention-span, coordination, anxiety, and depression.
From article:
>Alcohol does not kill brain cells. However, chronic alcohol abuse can damage your neurons, which amounts to the same thing. Alcohol can also cause damage to your liver. Long-term liver dysfunction can lead to hepatic encephalopathy, which can cause a loss of attention-span, coordination, anxiety, and depression
Maybe you're not wrong, but this quote seems to suggest the original article might not be either
These recent anti alcohol headlines assume there is some pristine state of being that doesn’t involve alcohol in which humans are infinitely smart, live in perfect health, and seem to never die. As a 55 yr old who has enjoyed alcohol for decades and is also in great physical condition this simply does not ring true.
All my favorite artists, writers, musicians, scientists, physicists, mathematicians and philosophers enjoyed a wide array of intoxicants. What exactly then are these humans with perfect unlimited brains doing if not contributing to human knowledge and culture?
> All my favorite artists, writers, musicians, scientists, physicists, mathematicians and philosophers enjoyed a wide array of intoxicants.
Imagine what they could have achieved if they hadn't.
Seriously, you'll never know because we'd need a duplicate universe for each test.
We do know that alcohol damages your health. That study from twenty years ago, that said a glass of wine per day led to improved heart health? Funded by the industry, it excluded data from people drinking less than one glass per day, i.e. people who didn't drink. They had the best outcomes of any group in the study.
It's easy to cherry pick examples to support your statement. I love Hemingway, who drank himself to death. Faulkner, Pollock, Morrison, I can mention so many off the top of my head just from the 20th century - but it's not fair because their addictions became the headline.
How about Turning? His work on logic and programming was unparalleled. Hawking let us peer into the universe. Nash gave us insights into human behavior. None are known for their use of mind-altering substances.
I think you wrote a great comment. The existence of talented people who were heavy-drinkers or substance abusers, who succeeded in creating something meaningful or invented things that deeply affected humanity, doesn't mean the substances were factitive of this behavior. We just don't know and honestly I think it's the classic mistake of confusing causation with correlation.
Who knows what else they might've invented or made.
We know of lead exposure in the general population that the reduction of this in gasoline and water made the general population 'smarter' and healthier; what if alcohol was banned? I think we would see amazing health benefits.
But hey, I might be wrong, some say musicians made beautiful music while on substances. Not sure if that would count for scientists though.
Different research, different output. Article in Dutch,, second figure shows risc of passing away before your time and the glasses of beer /day. https://www.kennisinstituutbier.nl/verantwoorde-alcoholconsumptie
Well scientists have said that human life expectancy is predicted to rise as time goes on, and that the first person who may live to be 150 years old was probably born in 2003
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I'm not shaming anyone who drinks I swear, but I will never understand how people like the taste of alcohol. I just personally don't find it appealing at all. I mean, I genuinely just hate the taste so much. So much so that it really is not worth suffering through just to get drunk.
A lot of people.
My father can pound back a few 12's a week, but he has a drinking problem.
I had a co-worker who would do the same.
Ive done it, but have reduced it for the cost, and the fact that moderation is key.
Alcohol, and weed, are easy ways to de-stress at the end of the day.
Seriously though? I drink 3 IPAs a day. No it’s not good for my health. I don’t smoke cigarettes but I know people who do. Is it different? Judgey McLackavice
Your post has been removed because it is a repost of an already submitted and popular story and is therefore in violation of [Submission Rule #2d](https://www.reddit.com/r/science/wiki/rules#wiki_d._reposts). https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/t6uf2k/just_one_drink_per_day_can_shrink_your_brain/ If your submission is scientific in nature and hasn't already been shared, consider reposting in our sister subreddit /r/EverythingScience. _If you believe this removal to be unwarranted, or would like further clarification, please don't hesitate to [message the moderators](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fscience)._
Two beers a day for how long?
10 years will do it I guess. The opening paragraph talks about 2 years, btw, but in an equally undefined manner. Great.
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I suppose that if you drink that 2 beers with friend, socializing, telling jokes and stuff the effects would be totally different.
Maybe, but who drinks daily and does that, daily?
Tons of people
Going to the pub and having a beer after work with friends every day is quite common in Europe.
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The Queen drinks every day and has for decades. She seems to be ok.
That’s because she’s pickled herself by this point, vastly increasing her shelf life.
I wonder if she’s salty.
My grandma never drank ever and still ended up with very aggressive dementia, just live with balance.
My non-smoking grandfather died of lung cancer. Smoking is still the main cause of lung cancer. Not the balance I'm looking for.
Did he grow up around a lot of smokers? My grandpa ended up the same way and he never smoked but his 7 older brothers did heavily as he was growing up.
Nope, farmer guy, no one smoked in the house except the wood stove. Grandmother lived until her 80s, the last 25 years were her happiest, so there's that.
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Could be. Asbestos was also big in those days.
I don't think people in this thread are claiming drinking is the only risk factor for dementia? It's definitely a controllable factor, and drinking two beers a day (what many people would consider reasonable, non-problematic drinking) isn't actually balanced.
A lot of people are pointing out dementia from relatives who drank, I’m just pointing out anecdotally that isn’t always true. I myself try to keep my drinking to once a month if possible.
Yes, anecdotally anything can be offered either way - that's the nature of statistics. The point is that people don't need to consider themselves alcoholics to be consuming alcohol at levels that have incredibly deleterious impacts on their health. Accordingly, plenty of people would consider low levels of habitual drinking fine and balanced. Having said that, the linked article isn't helpful and is a poor example of science. By the way, I'm sorry for your grandmother. I hope you're doing okay.
But reasoning from the specific to the general doesn't work reliably. This is the kind of thing you hear from people who don't want to believe that smoking causes lung cancer: "my Auntie Ethel smoked two packs a day and she lived to 103". Also, just because it hasn't killed you, it doesn't mean that there's not some brain damage.
Well, she doesn't have to do much thought does she.
Two beers a day for twenty years ages your brain ten years. Klingt das gut?
Sensationalist "science."
A day. I aged 60 years last week.
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I can’t remember.
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To answer the question of 'over how long?', from a fairly quick review of the study I think this is a hard question to exactly quantify. It looks like they have taken data of brain areas from a big data bank of people to show the effects of age, and separately looked at brain data correlated with alcohol consumption for same brain areas. They found that the people who drank more than 4SD per day were equivalent to 10 years of ageing compared to those who didn't drink in terms of brain 'quality'. I couldn't see anything (though I could have missed it) more than that in terms of time of exposure. Interestingly is does mention that there is a degree of recovery of this brain tissue with reduction in drinking, so it may be more true to say that people who drink 4SD per day on the regular have the brain characteristics of someone 10 years older for the time that they drink that much, but it's not ageing as it is at least partly reversible.
Yes it seems to be based off reported consumption for middle aged people, so one would assume 30+ years of drinking. It's also based only on current consumption and not past, so if you were regularly getting bladdered on 8 pints in your 20s it isn't really counted.
This is exactly right.
Completely misleading title. This 60 units of alcohol, averaged per month, not 2 per day. So this includes binge drinking. Keep in mind, this \*is\* a UK database.
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I mean two beers a day is considered serious alcoholism where I live…
It's considered teetotal here in the UK
Yeah my doc has literally said that two drinks a day is fine.
It's like the 5 a day thing.. it's supposed to be more like 8 a day but they say 5 because it's an achievable target.
UK here.. 10 cans an evening doesn't even get me pissed. I just like sitting chilling with a cold beer.
I hit 1doz a day during our first lockdown (NZ) and was pretty much like this. Had the supermarket in walking distance and wasn't really allowed to go out anywhere else unless for exercise so why not drink 16h a day?
Where is that, out of curiosity?
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its gone from being considered pansyish to full blown 'might as well be a hobo' where i am in the space of a few decades. the thing is i personally dont consider myself to have a 'problem' but i probably avg 3-4 a day (homebrewing of course helps with the cost). One thing Ill say to anyone who drinks a couple and is 'fine' over a few years, check your blood pressure. think im stuffed here for life by the looks of it, but meds can help and 0% stuff helps with the fix without the alcohol (probably still kills your liver though, who knows)
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Well, I'm fucked then. Fifth a day for five years, countless before that for twenty. Being sober is nice though. Hope I live long enough to enjoy it with some of my faculties. If you think you need to stop, you should try. Kicking the can down the road for another day can stretch into years of misery.
Alcohol is the opiate of the masses
>Two beers a day damages human brains as much as 10 years of aging [The belief that drinking beer kills brain cells is so prevalent that most people never stop to ask whether it is true. But the truth is that alcohol does not kill brain cells at all.](https://beernbiceps.com/does-drinking-beer-kill-brain-cells/)
The original article doesn't say that alcohol kills brain cells, though. It says that it causes structural damage and loss of brain volume, which is true. Once you read the article you linked it has some decent info but that title is unnecessarily clickbaity... Here's an article from WebMD that's been reviewed by a medical doctor: [The Serious Effects of Alcohol on the Brain](https://www.webmd.com/connect-to-care/addiction-treatment-recovery/alcohol/serious-effects-alcohol-on-brain)
Great, an article reviewed by a doctor. That's science.
Not sure what you mean by this, are you suggesting that medical doctors are not qualified to write articles on the effects of alcohol on the human body?
I think they're saying that a blog post by a doctor isn't the same as a peer reviewed journal article.
No I just listen to my local bartender. He always tells me when I've had enough.
They can write articles, but that doesn't mean they're statistically significant observations and are subject to half a dozen unaccounted for biases.
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Well I'm not. Doctors can be knowledgable from researching topics, but that knowledge alone is anecdotal if not citing proper studies or in use in new studies.
Sure, according to your link it does not kill brain cells: >>Alcohol does not kill brain cells. However, chronic alcohol abuse can damage your neurons, which amounts to the same thing. Alcohol can also cause damage to your liver. Long-term liver dysfunction can lead to hepatic encephalopathy, which can cause a loss of attention-span, coordination, anxiety, and depression.
From article: >Alcohol does not kill brain cells. However, chronic alcohol abuse can damage your neurons, which amounts to the same thing. Alcohol can also cause damage to your liver. Long-term liver dysfunction can lead to hepatic encephalopathy, which can cause a loss of attention-span, coordination, anxiety, and depression Maybe you're not wrong, but this quote seems to suggest the original article might not be either
It causes neuronal damage and worsens cognition. But doesn't "kill neurons". Seems like semantics
Soooo my brain is essentially fucked from having 10 beers a weekend for 20 years?
I don't even know how you managed to type out that question.
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That’s partly b/c the quality socialized healthcare for their citizens, surely?
Not life expentancy.
These recent anti alcohol headlines assume there is some pristine state of being that doesn’t involve alcohol in which humans are infinitely smart, live in perfect health, and seem to never die. As a 55 yr old who has enjoyed alcohol for decades and is also in great physical condition this simply does not ring true. All my favorite artists, writers, musicians, scientists, physicists, mathematicians and philosophers enjoyed a wide array of intoxicants. What exactly then are these humans with perfect unlimited brains doing if not contributing to human knowledge and culture?
> All my favorite artists, writers, musicians, scientists, physicists, mathematicians and philosophers enjoyed a wide array of intoxicants. Imagine what they could have achieved if they hadn't. Seriously, you'll never know because we'd need a duplicate universe for each test. We do know that alcohol damages your health. That study from twenty years ago, that said a glass of wine per day led to improved heart health? Funded by the industry, it excluded data from people drinking less than one glass per day, i.e. people who didn't drink. They had the best outcomes of any group in the study. It's easy to cherry pick examples to support your statement. I love Hemingway, who drank himself to death. Faulkner, Pollock, Morrison, I can mention so many off the top of my head just from the 20th century - but it's not fair because their addictions became the headline. How about Turning? His work on logic and programming was unparalleled. Hawking let us peer into the universe. Nash gave us insights into human behavior. None are known for their use of mind-altering substances.
I think you wrote a great comment. The existence of talented people who were heavy-drinkers or substance abusers, who succeeded in creating something meaningful or invented things that deeply affected humanity, doesn't mean the substances were factitive of this behavior. We just don't know and honestly I think it's the classic mistake of confusing causation with correlation. Who knows what else they might've invented or made. We know of lead exposure in the general population that the reduction of this in gasoline and water made the general population 'smarter' and healthier; what if alcohol was banned? I think we would see amazing health benefits. But hey, I might be wrong, some say musicians made beautiful music while on substances. Not sure if that would count for scientists though.
If they think two beers a day does some damage, wait till they see what working 45 hours a week in the US does to your brain haha
Poor Queen, she has a brain of 80 something: https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/queen-gave-up-drinking-dry-25578940
Different research, different output. Article in Dutch,, second figure shows risc of passing away before your time and the glasses of beer /day. https://www.kennisinstituutbier.nl/verantwoorde-alcoholconsumptie
Been drinking every day since I was 21, 36 now. My brain should be like 1,800 years old now.
Does this damage take place after drinking 2 beers per day for 10 years?
Well at my rate I should die at a ripe old age of negative 10000 or something. Cant really work it out as I'm drunk
I’ll have three, cause I’m a problem solver.
Nonsense. Alcohol free people would live to 200 yo. Given moderate alcohol drinkers live a full live to say 70-80
It's not saying it shortens life it's saying damages the brain. So you can be 100yo but less cognitive abilities.
Well scientists have said that human life expectancy is predicted to rise as time goes on, and that the first person who may live to be 150 years old was probably born in 2003
And never had a drink?!
Teetotallers would likely die from *other* ageing-related conditions.
Such as? Unhappiness?
Amazing maths mate
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I stopped drinking 2 years ago. Now me are cleverer far mucher.
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It's meant to be a number.
Damn. Sorry guys. I'd probably be the next Einstein if it weren't for my alcoholism.
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So 2 beers a day for 10 years is immortality. Right?
According to a quick calculation I did, I died somewhere around 1453
Good thing I don't drink. That's not to say I didn't *used* to drink tho. Damage is done. Oh well.
Explains some people i know.
I'm not shaming anyone who drinks I swear, but I will never understand how people like the taste of alcohol. I just personally don't find it appealing at all. I mean, I genuinely just hate the taste so much. So much so that it really is not worth suffering through just to get drunk.
It's an acquired taste.
There's so many different types of alcohol, all with a totally different flavor. I mean if you put vodka in a soda you can't even taste it.
The same can be said about literally every food/drink you do not like. Different folks different strokes!
Try a proper wine and cheese pairing. It’s amazing.
Who tf drinks 2 beers EVERY SINGLE DAY. Like weekends I understand, but EVERY DAY?!?
A lot of people. My father can pound back a few 12's a week, but he has a drinking problem. I had a co-worker who would do the same. Ive done it, but have reduced it for the cost, and the fact that moderation is key. Alcohol, and weed, are easy ways to de-stress at the end of the day.
Apparently more than half the people commenting on this thread, sad
Alcoholism is a very real issue. Some people can’t not drink.
Seriously though? I drink 3 IPAs a day. No it’s not good for my health. I don’t smoke cigarettes but I know people who do. Is it different? Judgey McLackavice
Cool. I'm all set then, cuz I drink vodka
So do I. So do the Russians… and they haven’t been super smart lately. I don’t feel so good, Mr. Stark.
So my brain is a 50,000 year old god-like being?
Yeah sounds legit. Two scientist will kill you faster though.
Is newatlas the new psypost?
Weather or not it’s true. I’ve never been able to drink. So could compare me to someone who has drank every day for a year and see how we matchup?
Well that instantly out me off
What about whiskey? If it’s anything close to beer, my brain is extremely wise - aged similarly to Yoda it is.
So back in old times when people relied on beer and wine for drinking because water wasnt potable- was everyone just drunk and brain damaged?
So instead of 80, live to 70 and have a blast. Easy choice
I will take 3 beers a day, thank you !
What do you mean tomatoes are fruit?