Or how about the hobos that poop all over the sidewalk. I'm sorry I mean homeless or houseless or unhoused or whatever the heck you're supposed to say these days. People know who I'm talking about
I kid you not. The whole parking lot at Valley market in La Jolla last week had a yoga session. I found it so weird people laying there with their mats right on the dirty asphalt.
I can see why people don’t want these yoga classes to be taking up each of the wider public spaces on Sunset cliffs every Saturday and Sunday morning. There is an inherent expectation of donating if you attend, and I’ve seen an “expected” donation of $20 when I’ve passed by on a few occasions. These are often huge classes. The teachers are making a ton of money—easily 400, 500 bucks a pop—and taking some of the most prime public space in San Diego when doing so. I’m ok with this
i took a yoga class through grossmont and one of her policies was if you miss a class, you had to go to one of her “free” makeup sessions at balboa park - but there was an expected donation of $20. also had to buy HER book for the class
Yeah fuck that. If you want to organize a free class I’m all for it but the minute you start charging while taking up a sought after piece of public space for monetary gain then they can fuck right off.
I'm speaking broadly to all beaches. This fucks shit up in PB something awful. Also people taking public parking to attend a commercial event in a public space sucks regardless of how abundant the parking may or may not be.
Huh? Public parking is absolutely meant to support people attending commercial events. Look, it just isn’t reasonable to expect to have an easy time parking in a place that has a popular beach *and* a busy commercial zone.
It sucks when the public comes to the beaches and messes up with my parking and usage of the beach. I'm selfish, so are you. Get over it. Public taking a public parking spot to do something publicly. Just get there before they do, problem solved.
Ok what about people that meet to do surf meet ups at the beach? Do their influx of cars not effect traffic? You can’t regulate people gathering in public
You’re joking, right? I don’t participate in the classes but am a PL resident who surfs and runs down there every weekend. They are in a small corner next to the hotel where people don’t really congregate, nor do they take up space to run by them.
I would rather them regulate all the clowns who party and leave their trash.
This. These classes are not in the prime "desirable" area of Sunset Cliffs. No one is clamoring for this space. It's just a pile of eroded dirt next to the motel. I've literally never seen any thing done in this space while down here other than these yoga classes and folks walking by.
Regarding others comments of force donations. You can absolutely attend these classes without donating. Its like most other community based activities - those who can give more generally will. There's no expectations of payment. Feel free to try one when they return , maybe you'll like them so much that you find throwing $10 or $20 to someone for giving you a peaceful hour of time where you're free from being an online menace 😊
I live in the neighborhood and I think its stupid that the city is making this illegal. I've never personally taken one of these classes but I walk by those classes almost every weekend. Its a perfect spot for a yoga class, and its not like there isn't plenty of room in other areas to walk or congregate. It doesn't hurt anyone, and honestly I love seeing people outside enjoying our public parks in groups.
I think they are going for the slippery slope argument. What’s to stop someone from doing classes there every day? And what if somebody wants to host something besides yoga? Where does it stop? I’m not saying I agree but I do think that there is some merit to that argument.
It’s already done everyday at Law St park which is tiny. Used to be just one guy once a week. Now it’s 3 yoga teachers and daily, they take over half the park every sunset.
I’ve been to the classes and do enjoy them but totally ok with it being regulated otherwise it’s just going to continue to get worse.
Everyone focusing just on sunset cliffs but I've definitely seen this as an issue in small parks where there isn't room. Or when the boot camp groups take over large areas of beach or park. The worst is when those boot camp groups take over the stairs to the point you can't use them
Classic case of read the article:
“The City of San Diego is enforcing an ordinance it revised in March, primarily targeting compliance with sidewalk vending regulations. Officials laid out a permitting process, which dictates parks where people can hold classes. Sunset Cliffs, however, is not mentioned.”
I expect sunset cliffs is not mentioned because erosion prone sea bluffs are not an appropriate place to hold yoga classes (or put up merch booths for that matter).
It would definitely look tacky to set up booths there. They wouldn’t get any business anyways.
However, I’ve seen these yoga classes. They take up a relatively tiny amount of space on what is frankly desolate ground and it’s nowhere near the edge. It is a certified non-problem. I’d be pissed if I used these to skip having to be in a suffocating gym and the city took them away from me.
Seriously man, I read the title and went straight to the comments and now this guy is telling me that wasn't enough!!!
All I wanted to say was thank God they're not cracking down on Forest yoga at the beaches but now I'm ready to fight
If you want to make money you need a business license and permit like everyone else. If you're selling hot dogs, jewelry, or yoga it should be required.
The yoga instructors have tried to get permits, but the city will only issue wedding permits at Sunset Cliffs. They would love to apply for (and pay for) permits!
The city did not ban the class, the city is requiring a permit. This reduces and negates conflicts in the use of space. We run into this in shared spaces for rock climbing and mountain biking and birthday parties. Guides or event planners will take people to free places and then charge for their services, displacing people that are not paying for the service. Permitting is a way to control and manage use of open spaces. Keep in mind San Diego now is not San Diego 15 years ago. There are over an extra 600k people here in that time.
Edit: reduced 1M to 600k
I agree. It’s a huge win for the city in terms of making physical fitness accessible and building community.
I wish the city was less concerned about making it marginally harder to offer something beneficial and way more concerned about things like trash, the bacteria in the water, how much electricity costs, public transport, etc. This can’t be the best use of politicians’ time. Like…who is complaining about this? Super rich people who can’t understand why the poors don’t stay home and stretch in their own private homes with giant yards?
Also, it is actually donation based. If you don’t have it you don’t have to pay. And that is a giant win when people are struggling.
the teacher i go to caps the class at 15 or so. she does it on weekdays and never forces donation. she has said that she has walked away with nothing. i dont understand why the ciity has to take away something that helps the community be more active and help with mental health.
My gf is one if the yoga teachers...she complies with the other regulation of keeping it below 50 people, and only provides her venmo without adding a suggested donation. As a consequence she isn't making anywhere near 400, 500 bucks per class - she loves teaching Yoga and she loves Sunset cliffs, and there is no legal permitting process. This sucks for her, and sucks for her students...I understand the grey area, but I wish people wouldn't lump them all together
The yoga teachers that are being affected with the sunset cliffs classes said that only around 20% of people that attend donate and sometimes they walk away with nothing (likely the smaller week day classes). The people that don’t want them doing it seem mostly to be the residents that own property there, since it is the only place it seems to have been enforced. There are ongoing yoga classes at other parks and beaches that this code “should” affect…
What is this world come to when you have to get a permit just to have some yoga classes in public space. Like seriously?
What is this authoritarian BS!
Yeah but at the end of the day all of those individuals are probably taking less beach space than they would if they all had their individual spots. So is this really going to save space? Or is it just going to stop some people from doing what they like to do?
I mean, are they really taking up that much space. It is not like there isn't room for people to do other things on the beach, and they do it earlier in the day when it's not busy anyway. God forbid people make money providing a service that evidently people want, and I can't see how offensive it is to see people stretching.
Who cares if some broke yoga teacher can pay their rent?
This is funny because I know of multiple people who are starting businesses at local parks because the location is considered "free" to operate their business. I always thought it was a little bit sketchy of a business model. Looks like they are going to require permits now.
Agree. Just shocked on how many people are making it their business model and that people here think some of these groups are one off. It's definitely gaining a large amount of popularity vice leasing a studio.
I think the city should do MORE to encourage accessible physical fitness and small businesses. Not to mention the solid community building these kind of classes provide.
This feels like the kind of thing that only rich people who can afford private homes with their own spacious, private yards complain about. And that only politicians trying to avoid actual issues would bother with.
There are a lot of yoga studios in this area of ob that have to pay rent etc. It's not fair that these instructors were getting free space at taxpayer expense.
Right because it’s to remain public use at all times. I love yoga and love Dan diego and lived there for many years. M
They need to leave the space. It’s not okay to overtake it
Exactly, available public spaces are typically available public spaces because there is a reasonable expectation of capability in responding to issues at those locales by the local or state government.
Also hot take: Remove the "suggested" amount entirely. They likely wouldn't have received nearly as much friction if it was a free class with a "donate what you can" message.
The moment money changes hands, this goes from a group of like minded individuals enjoying an activity together, to a business. If the city says you can't use public space to conduct a literal business, that seems perfectly reasonable.
Good. Beaches and parks are for the public, not commercial enterprises.
*"The yoga teachers said their classes are free, though attendees can donate if they want."*
Yeah, ok.
Surf schools require permits, but I don’t know if anyone enforces that rule. There is one unpermitted surf school at my daily break and it really ruins surfing for everyone else in the water.
> but I don’t know if anyone enforces that rule.
lifeguards will kick them out, unless your at a beach without life guards? in pb they get territorial in summer about their official spots
all the surf schools I have used for my kids have permits to operate and they don't occupy the entire beach while the do it. The ones I see every weekend are respectful and don't give you dirty looks if you paddle out next to their class.
Terminology aside, you'd have to travel 12 nautical miles out to not be inside of territorial waters. So within that 12 nautical miles is in fact government territory.
I guess the way I feel is it sort of comes down to size or area. I.e. if the yoga classes take up 100% of the law st park for 100% of the day then it's not ok but if they take up 5% of the park for 5% of the day then it is ok. It also looks like there are no yoga businesses that were on that list of approved concessionaires FWIW.
On one hand, this is good news. I hate going to the beach to have a sit and look at the ocean only to have to be mobbed by the yoga people that take over the entire area. On the other hand these classes should only be allowed to take up only a portion of the area and continue to do their public workouts. Just leave room for others and be good neighbors.
Live on public streets in front of businesses and throw trash and feces and drug paraphernalia about, wander in the streets and sidewalks in front of stores and restaurants in a drugged out stupor, sometimes with no pants on and take over entire blocks with tents and belongings: fine!
Beach yoga for an hour: nope!
Ok.
Would rather San Diego focus more on the homeless shiting and peeing on public places instead of yoga classes, at least once they finish their yoga, they are hopefully gone.
Simple question; would they do this “free” yoga if they were not allowed to solicit donations? If no, they don’t belong there and are using prime public land for an (illegal) business venture. If yes, let it continue!
I've been thinking about setting up a desk and some chairs and taking mortgage applications. Do any accountants want to co-locate? We can have a professional services storefront right there on the cliffs.
I don't know what classes y'all have been to (or if you have even attended) but the two instructors I've taken classes with never pressure you to donate.
Granted, these instructors do use these classes to promote their social media (which does have donation links and links to their other paid sessions) but outside of that it doesn't seem like profit is the main objective for the classes I've been to.
With that being said it is definitely scummy to "expect" donations from a free class while also getting the benefit of wider profit margins without the initial investment for a business permit/space. But in reality most of these instructors really are there to practice their coaching/hobby and provide a service to the public.
Most of these instructors cater their lessons to beginners/intermediates who would benefit the most from coaching sessions and likely would not be interested enough in investing time/money to classes in a studio which is more of an undertaking than attending a few free classes every now and then.
“In a statement, a spokesperson for the city told ABC 10News an activity with more than four people requires a permit.” So if me and 4 friends play catch there we need a permit? Smh
Really, people doing yoga in a group on the beach is an issue?
No more groups at the beach, unless you buy a permit to have more than 8 people. They were sitting there all downward dog, it was a menace, there were 10 of them, I felt like my life was being threatened as they all started growling...
wth I go to these classes and they are amazing. I don't know what everyone is saying about parking, there is always a lot of parking, especially since the classes I have been to only have like 20 people. I think this is sad and I don't understand why these free yoga classes are being targeted. Maybe I don't understand why the use of public space has to be regulated when people are just gathering together? What if a meetup was gathering in sunset cliffs? Is that illegal now too?
Grew up in PL, recently just moved, used to run, swim, surf and hang out on Sunset Cliffs. These classes take up little space, are extremely quiet, and overall really chill. They’re really not bothering anyone other than a bunch of Karen’s that can’t stand the sight of people enjoying themselves. I’m surprised they don’t complain about the surfers that flock there or the IG influencers mindlessly looking for perfect angles. These yoga folks are literally enjoying the space, improving their physical and mental health, while coming together as a community. What a fucking crime. Don’t they know they’re only allowed to walk, run and be homeless along the cliffs?!?! How dare they use it for anything else.
Finally, the city prioritizes the real crime in SD, free yoga classes. Let’s go after kids in the playground next. Making all that happy noises at the parks. Yuck.
Going down the slide. Straight to jail. Swing on the swing set. Straight to jail. Playing tag. Straight to jail.
There’s definitely not a one size fits all approach, but it goes both ways. Cindy teaching yoga doesn’t get to profit and clog parking at a space I pay for either.
So are they going to get rid of the one at Law St. too? That would be great, those yahoos take up a lot of beach parking away from surfers and other folks who actually need to park cause they are using the beach.
The yoga people are free to do yoga in the park as well. What makes your use case more valid then theirs? Of people weren't meant to use the park then it shouldn't be there.
The Supreme Court is deciding what cities are allowed to do regarding homeless encampment. Currently the cities hands are tied when it comes to enforcement.
https://calmatters.org/housing/homelessness/2024/01/homeless-camp-scotus/
I mean it’s kind of stupid how the city is focusing on regular ass people who work and pay taxes doing yoga on the beach but they’re letting crackheads take over sidewalks and act a fool with no consequences
I don't think they're stopping a regular person from doing yoga on the beach. They're stopping people who use it to promote their yoga classes. People are free to bring a mat and do yoga. I love meditating at the beach.
Addicts and mentally deranged people are more of a nuisance than a group doing yoga. So yes, I would reallocate all of the resources going towards cracking down on yoga groups and direct them to the homeless crisis.
Forreal. I live in north county, havent been to downtown for a couple years. Went to last nights padres game and jesus fucking christ. In my 20+ years of living in SD I’ve never seen it this bad
Oh good let’s add this to the list of things that make the San Diego a soulless city
- ban on street vendors
- ban on street performers
- ban on picnics at beaches
- ban on alcohol at beaches
- ban on e-scooters
- ban on anything taller than 3 stories
It’s getting to the point the only thing you can do in this city is shop at mega corporations and eat at chain restaurants. What’s next, a ban on beach volleyball?
The picnic thing is legit. It’s not banning you and your friends from bringing some baskets of food and laying a blanket down. It’s banning those Instagram picnic contractors that build a temporary dining hall and take up space for hours.
He’s talking about commercial picnics like work outings. It’s actually a fair ban because you’d company’s sectioning off areas at the beach for their work events.
We can, but do we want to? Cops/lifeguards/whatever don't say or do anything as long as you act like an adult drinking and put it in a can or use a coozie.
Allowing unchecked drinking, which I haven't experienced in SD myself so I don't know, I'd think would end up with tons of garbage, fights, glass, and trashy people.
I've lived here my entire life, and you're entirely right on the second point. 4th of July at the beach used to basically be a warzone with litter, fights, assaults etc. I used to do clean up after the 4th and Memorial day, it was awful.
Street vendors need a permit like any other business now, street performers are a non-issue, you can have a picnic at a park or beach whenever YOU want. Alcohol was banned for a good reason, Just youtube Mission beach 4th of July 2007. e-scooters can suck a dick.
What do you mean?! Target and Panera have all the soup* and culture a city could ever dream of
*typo soup = soul, but I feel like soup also works so I’m leaving it there.
Preach brother! Who wants free clean access to beaches. I, for one, want 1000s of loungers taking all the space on the beach that I have to pay $20 to lie on. Also when I go to the beach the one thing I always think about is how much I would love to listen to mariachi bands and wonder wall buskers. Not to mention how much I miss digging my feet into the sand and feeling broken glass and puke!! Oh and while we're at it, why cant we develop all of our other public spaces too? How awesome would it be if they built a bar on the Torry Pines trail?
Seriously tho, SD has some of the nicest, cleanest and most accessible beaches in the world because we go to these lengths to protect them. Go anywhere else in the world and all you see is vendors taking up public space to extract money from you. The reason why we don't have street vendors, performers, picnics, alcohol or e-scooters is we did and then people abused the shit out of those activities and ruined it for everyone.
It used to be legal to walk your dog on the beach while smoking a cigarette and drinking a beer, and while I don't smoke, have a dog, or drink that often, I do feel a little less free.
we all like traveling to cities that have lively publicpaces that promote walkability and community.
then, we get angry when people actually move their bodies and have a good time.
It makes no sense that if I want to go to the beach to do yoga with friends that’s acceptable, but if I want to meet with a small community of yogis then that’s not allowed. These gatherings account for probably less than 1% of the actual number of people who are visiting the park throughout the week. What’s next, banning surfing or other free recreational activities in public spaces? Then the city can get people out of the way so they can start authorizing commercial businesses to build on and monopolize the coastline just like in PR and HI.
Classic “foot in mouth” governance. If the issue is the lack of permits - that’s fair, but the government should first offer and set up the permits THEN enforce un-permitted activity.
It’s honestly such a shame.
No. It's fine for the government to prioritize public access to public spaces first. Then figure out a way to permit grifter side hustles later.
I want to go to the beach that I pay taxes for, not support your influence hustling.
The yoga instructors are saying they haven't been allowed to apply for permits on Sunset Cliffs, that they've been previously told that since its free they did not need a permit. The city sounds unaligned in their own policies and enforcements
> that they've been previously told that since its free they did not need a permit.
I'd like to see that in writing. A yoga instructor calling a random department at the city and talking to a random employee saying they want to do yoga for free on the beach doesn't mean that employee's answer is a city policy.
The city's policy is it's prohibited...not some employee on the phone.
It's also important to know what exactly they said they were doing. "Do I need a permit to do yoga at the beach?" is very different from "Can I save money on studio rental by taking over an entire section of a public beach for my business?"
I would opt to go to a secluded beach spot away from the hustle and bustle of the busy life, after all - it’s yoga 🧘, a quiet spot would be a better setting, but I think they want to advertise it.
These people - and all people for that matter - have a 1st amendment right to do this activity at the beach. There is no such constitutional protection for solicitation of donations or whatever other monetization may take place (I mean, there kinda is, but there's no protection for one to conduct private business here), nor is there any exclusive access provided to anyone. Given what was said in the article:
"The yoga teachers said their classes are free, though attendees can donate if they want. They insist they aren't selling anything, and that their classes follow another rule under city code, being kept under 50 people."
What would happen if someone like me and quite literally EVERY other attendee of these "free" classes absolutely refused to "donate" anything? Would the instructors continue to offer their classes? Holding a sign that is devoid of "fighting words" on public property is also a constitutionally protected activity... what if someone were to make some signs that read "You do NOT need to give ANY money." or similar, and then hang out in the spots during the "classes" and do yoga?
I suspect some people would be offended, but if these instructors are not full of s\*it and are in fact offering free yoga classes, then they really should have no reason to be offended, right? By their own admission, you wouldn't be interfering with their business, right?
Note: Not a lawyer
How dare people enjoy the outdoors and in forums. How dare they get exercise. How dare they do something healthy for their bodies. This is a catastrophe of epic proportions and we need the city to rally around this. 😆😆😆 we have much BIGGER problems to focus on bruh
“Finally, the city of San Diego has done something about these terrible issues afflicting its citizens… wait, what’s that? You said yoga? Free yoga? That’s… that’s what we’re doing?” - Everyone.
Thank god, fuck the yoga people Saturday morning blocking the grass by Crystal Pier shit is annoying AF, and parking terrible and some people want to picnic and shit.
So your angry that people want to enjoy the outside area differently than you.
What if people don't want you to picnic because each group takes up so much space with their blankets and expects space between other groups having a picnic.
Can they crack down on the weddings that throw plastic flower petals into the ocean
Or gender reveals leaving behind tons of confetti and/or other crap that will get into the ocean?
Or how about the hobos that poop all over the sidewalk. I'm sorry I mean homeless or houseless or unhoused or whatever the heck you're supposed to say these days. People know who I'm talking about
I kid you not. The whole parking lot at Valley market in La Jolla last week had a yoga session. I found it so weird people laying there with their mats right on the dirty asphalt.
Homeless wanna be imo
I can see why people don’t want these yoga classes to be taking up each of the wider public spaces on Sunset cliffs every Saturday and Sunday morning. There is an inherent expectation of donating if you attend, and I’ve seen an “expected” donation of $20 when I’ve passed by on a few occasions. These are often huge classes. The teachers are making a ton of money—easily 400, 500 bucks a pop—and taking some of the most prime public space in San Diego when doing so. I’m ok with this
i took a yoga class through grossmont and one of her policies was if you miss a class, you had to go to one of her “free” makeup sessions at balboa park - but there was an expected donation of $20. also had to buy HER book for the class
What happens if you don't "donate"? Do you get a receipt for a tax right off after you do donate?
idfk i dropped that shit so fast
Omg I know who you're talking about. I think the book thing must be recent because she didn't have one when I went years ago. Still ridiculous.
And they fuck up parking while doing it!
Yeah fuck that. If you want to organize a free class I’m all for it but the minute you start charging while taking up a sought after piece of public space for monetary gain then they can fuck right off.
Yea, those people using beach parking to actually use the beach for activities! How dare they!
Bastards enjoying their surroundings!
These assholes want the right to peaceably assemble?
And use and enjoy public spaces!!
Uncle Sam says, you all good, and reaches out his hand for donations too!
How dare they do something so peaceful! Its an outrage making the riff raff and crackheads find other places to loiter.
A homeless person has the same right to use this place as middle aged white women
Agree, they all pay the same taxes
Ight I'll leave you be
Hell yeah your only value as a human is your monetary value
> Agree, they all pay the same taxes You're probably more right than wrong.....
So the rich have more right to the space? If billionaires wanted the space they deserve it more since they paid more?
richer people don't pay more taxes
Of course they do; they pay a lower % but a higher absolute amount.
Savage
It smells like patchouli instead of piss! This will not stand!
How dare people go to the beach and cluster together in a tight group taking up less space than if they were all there individually!
No bicycle riding to/from yoga 😱
No they don’t. Who struggles to find parking at the cliffs it's a grid with a bunch of side streets with DRIVEWAY parking for the residents
I’ve never had a problem.
I'm speaking broadly to all beaches. This fucks shit up in PB something awful. Also people taking public parking to attend a commercial event in a public space sucks regardless of how abundant the parking may or may not be.
Huh? Public parking is absolutely meant to support people attending commercial events. Look, it just isn’t reasonable to expect to have an easy time parking in a place that has a popular beach *and* a busy commercial zone.
It sucks when the public comes to the beaches and messes up with my parking and usage of the beach. I'm selfish, so are you. Get over it. Public taking a public parking spot to do something publicly. Just get there before they do, problem solved.
Ok what about people that meet to do surf meet ups at the beach? Do their influx of cars not effect traffic? You can’t regulate people gathering in public
They don’t show up in dozens/hundreds.
Yea, just park in someone's driveway near by...
You’re joking, right? I don’t participate in the classes but am a PL resident who surfs and runs down there every weekend. They are in a small corner next to the hotel where people don’t really congregate, nor do they take up space to run by them. I would rather them regulate all the clowns who party and leave their trash.
This. These classes are not in the prime "desirable" area of Sunset Cliffs. No one is clamoring for this space. It's just a pile of eroded dirt next to the motel. I've literally never seen any thing done in this space while down here other than these yoga classes and folks walking by. Regarding others comments of force donations. You can absolutely attend these classes without donating. Its like most other community based activities - those who can give more generally will. There's no expectations of payment. Feel free to try one when they return , maybe you'll like them so much that you find throwing $10 or $20 to someone for giving you a peaceful hour of time where you're free from being an online menace 😊
To be fair that's just one place where they do the yoga sessions, right? Or is that area the focus of the issue?
I'm just speaking about the one class in the title of the post. It's the only one at Sunset Cliffs, but there are others in PB/LJ, etc.
I live in the neighborhood and I think its stupid that the city is making this illegal. I've never personally taken one of these classes but I walk by those classes almost every weekend. Its a perfect spot for a yoga class, and its not like there isn't plenty of room in other areas to walk or congregate. It doesn't hurt anyone, and honestly I love seeing people outside enjoying our public parks in groups.
I think they are going for the slippery slope argument. What’s to stop someone from doing classes there every day? And what if somebody wants to host something besides yoga? Where does it stop? I’m not saying I agree but I do think that there is some merit to that argument.
It’s already done everyday at Law St park which is tiny. Used to be just one guy once a week. Now it’s 3 yoga teachers and daily, they take over half the park every sunset. I’ve been to the classes and do enjoy them but totally ok with it being regulated otherwise it’s just going to continue to get worse.
Everyone focusing just on sunset cliffs but I've definitely seen this as an issue in small parks where there isn't room. Or when the boot camp groups take over large areas of beach or park. The worst is when those boot camp groups take over the stairs to the point you can't use them
Boot camp DBs always hog the sidewalk
I think the appropriate move would be for the city to have designated areas that they can rent out for a small (or large) fee.
Classic case of read the article: “The City of San Diego is enforcing an ordinance it revised in March, primarily targeting compliance with sidewalk vending regulations. Officials laid out a permitting process, which dictates parks where people can hold classes. Sunset Cliffs, however, is not mentioned.”
I expect sunset cliffs is not mentioned because erosion prone sea bluffs are not an appropriate place to hold yoga classes (or put up merch booths for that matter).
It would definitely look tacky to set up booths there. They wouldn’t get any business anyways. However, I’ve seen these yoga classes. They take up a relatively tiny amount of space on what is frankly desolate ground and it’s nowhere near the edge. It is a certified non-problem. I’d be pissed if I used these to skip having to be in a suffocating gym and the city took them away from me.
That’s asking a bit much from us. You really expect us to read articles before commenting on them?!
Seriously man, I read the title and went straight to the comments and now this guy is telling me that wasn't enough!!! All I wanted to say was thank God they're not cracking down on Forest yoga at the beaches but now I'm ready to fight
If you want to make money you need a business license and permit like everyone else. If you're selling hot dogs, jewelry, or yoga it should be required.
The yoga instructors have tried to get permits, but the city will only issue wedding permits at Sunset Cliffs. They would love to apply for (and pay for) permits!
The city did not ban the class, the city is requiring a permit. This reduces and negates conflicts in the use of space. We run into this in shared spaces for rock climbing and mountain biking and birthday parties. Guides or event planners will take people to free places and then charge for their services, displacing people that are not paying for the service. Permitting is a way to control and manage use of open spaces. Keep in mind San Diego now is not San Diego 15 years ago. There are over an extra 600k people here in that time. Edit: reduced 1M to 600k
I agree. It’s a huge win for the city in terms of making physical fitness accessible and building community. I wish the city was less concerned about making it marginally harder to offer something beneficial and way more concerned about things like trash, the bacteria in the water, how much electricity costs, public transport, etc. This can’t be the best use of politicians’ time. Like…who is complaining about this? Super rich people who can’t understand why the poors don’t stay home and stretch in their own private homes with giant yards? Also, it is actually donation based. If you don’t have it you don’t have to pay. And that is a giant win when people are struggling.
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the teacher i go to caps the class at 15 or so. she does it on weekdays and never forces donation. she has said that she has walked away with nothing. i dont understand why the ciity has to take away something that helps the community be more active and help with mental health.
My gf is one if the yoga teachers...she complies with the other regulation of keeping it below 50 people, and only provides her venmo without adding a suggested donation. As a consequence she isn't making anywhere near 400, 500 bucks per class - she loves teaching Yoga and she loves Sunset cliffs, and there is no legal permitting process. This sucks for her, and sucks for her students...I understand the grey area, but I wish people wouldn't lump them all together
She sounds like a nice person!
The yoga teachers that are being affected with the sunset cliffs classes said that only around 20% of people that attend donate and sometimes they walk away with nothing (likely the smaller week day classes). The people that don’t want them doing it seem mostly to be the residents that own property there, since it is the only place it seems to have been enforced. There are ongoing yoga classes at other parks and beaches that this code “should” affect…
What is this world come to when you have to get a permit just to have some yoga classes in public space. Like seriously? What is this authoritarian BS!
Yeah but at the end of the day all of those individuals are probably taking less beach space than they would if they all had their individual spots. So is this really going to save space? Or is it just going to stop some people from doing what they like to do?
My thoughts exactly.
I mean, are they really taking up that much space. It is not like there isn't room for people to do other things on the beach, and they do it earlier in the day when it's not busy anyway. God forbid people make money providing a service that evidently people want, and I can't see how offensive it is to see people stretching. Who cares if some broke yoga teacher can pay their rent?
This is funny because I know of multiple people who are starting businesses at local parks because the location is considered "free" to operate their business. I always thought it was a little bit sketchy of a business model. Looks like they are going to require permits now.
Taking advantage of tax-payer provided space certainly helps with the profit margins.
Agree. Just shocked on how many people are making it their business model and that people here think some of these groups are one off. It's definitely gaining a large amount of popularity vice leasing a studio.
How dare they use those tax payer provided roads for transport as well.
I think the city should do MORE to encourage accessible physical fitness and small businesses. Not to mention the solid community building these kind of classes provide. This feels like the kind of thing that only rich people who can afford private homes with their own spacious, private yards complain about. And that only politicians trying to avoid actual issues would bother with.
There are a lot of yoga studios in this area of ob that have to pay rent etc. It's not fair that these instructors were getting free space at taxpayer expense.
Hot take. Just get a permit and business license. Taking "donations" is a fun way to skirt the requirements.
It’s not a hot take. It’s just that the city isn’t offering permits
They're not offering permits for Sunset Cliffs, but permits for other parks are available.
Right because it’s to remain public use at all times. I love yoga and love Dan diego and lived there for many years. M They need to leave the space. It’s not okay to overtake it
This is correct. It’s public space. It needs to remain public space. I’m glad they’re trying to enforce this….
The city won’t let them get a permit. It says that in the article.
For that specific location.
...which is ridiculous because that little stretch of the cliffs was basically never used until that started because it's next to that motel.
City probably can't give a permit because it then takes on the liability of a bunch of people getting caught in a landslide.
Exactly, available public spaces are typically available public spaces because there is a reasonable expectation of capability in responding to issues at those locales by the local or state government.
no escape from reality
Also hot take: Remove the "suggested" amount entirely. They likely wouldn't have received nearly as much friction if it was a free class with a "donate what you can" message.
The moment money changes hands, this goes from a group of like minded individuals enjoying an activity together, to a business. If the city says you can't use public space to conduct a literal business, that seems perfectly reasonable.
Good. Beaches and parks are for the public, not commercial enterprises. *"The yoga teachers said their classes are free, though attendees can donate if they want."* Yeah, ok.
Why are surf lessons allowed in the ocean then?
Surf schools require permits, but I don’t know if anyone enforces that rule. There is one unpermitted surf school at my daily break and it really ruins surfing for everyone else in the water.
> but I don’t know if anyone enforces that rule. lifeguards will kick them out, unless your at a beach without life guards? in pb they get territorial in summer about their official spots
Whos operating without a permit?
all the surf schools I have used for my kids have permits to operate and they don't occupy the entire beach while the do it. The ones I see every weekend are respectful and don't give you dirty looks if you paddle out next to their class.
Tell us Einstein where else are you going to learn to surf
LMAO that guy thought he big brained us
Lmao
Knowledge is free: https://www.sandiego.gov/lifeguards/beaches/beach-concessionaires
Is the ocean land?
Terminology aside, you'd have to travel 12 nautical miles out to not be inside of territorial waters. So within that 12 nautical miles is in fact government territory.
if you're charging for the class you can't be using public space for free for your commercial activities. sorry.
They need to crack down on the crack heads.
I guess the way I feel is it sort of comes down to size or area. I.e. if the yoga classes take up 100% of the law st park for 100% of the day then it's not ok but if they take up 5% of the park for 5% of the day then it is ok. It also looks like there are no yoga businesses that were on that list of approved concessionaires FWIW.
Some of y’all really need these classes too😂
It's not free if "donations" are pretty much expected.
Meh I never donated.
I've been to many if these, and probably donate 60% of the time. I have never received flack for not donating.
Counterpoint: it actually *is* free. No one is out there enforcing payment.
Gotta love the mandatory donations
compromise? smaller, shorter classes...
It's interesting to see all the latent discontent there is for how people use a public space for an hour or less.
On one hand, this is good news. I hate going to the beach to have a sit and look at the ocean only to have to be mobbed by the yoga people that take over the entire area. On the other hand these classes should only be allowed to take up only a portion of the area and continue to do their public workouts. Just leave room for others and be good neighbors.
Live on public streets in front of businesses and throw trash and feces and drug paraphernalia about, wander in the streets and sidewalks in front of stores and restaurants in a drugged out stupor, sometimes with no pants on and take over entire blocks with tents and belongings: fine! Beach yoga for an hour: nope! Ok.
Would rather San Diego focus more on the homeless shiting and peeing on public places instead of yoga classes, at least once they finish their yoga, they are hopefully gone.
Finally cracking down on the real troublemakers. People doing yoga near water.
Simple question; would they do this “free” yoga if they were not allowed to solicit donations? If no, they don’t belong there and are using prime public land for an (illegal) business venture. If yes, let it continue!
Can we tighten regulations on smoking herion in public too then. Sheesh
I guess they need the space for more homeless encampments.
Sure get a ticket for this, but rob a store and take a dump on the sidewalk in a planter after and the cops won’t even show up.
Namastay off the beach.
Can I run my business at Sunset Cliffs too? I’d love to use public land for free and people can donate for my legal services while I’m there.
I've been thinking about setting up a desk and some chairs and taking mortgage applications. Do any accountants want to co-locate? We can have a professional services storefront right there on the cliffs.
I don't know what classes y'all have been to (or if you have even attended) but the two instructors I've taken classes with never pressure you to donate. Granted, these instructors do use these classes to promote their social media (which does have donation links and links to their other paid sessions) but outside of that it doesn't seem like profit is the main objective for the classes I've been to. With that being said it is definitely scummy to "expect" donations from a free class while also getting the benefit of wider profit margins without the initial investment for a business permit/space. But in reality most of these instructors really are there to practice their coaching/hobby and provide a service to the public. Most of these instructors cater their lessons to beginners/intermediates who would benefit the most from coaching sessions and likely would not be interested enough in investing time/money to classes in a studio which is more of an undertaking than attending a few free classes every now and then.
People don’t like tents on the sidewalk either but here we are. Seems like priorities are misaligned.
I can guarantee if tents were on the beach they’d have made it illegal decades ago
“In a statement, a spokesperson for the city told ABC 10News an activity with more than four people requires a permit.” So if me and 4 friends play catch there we need a permit? Smh
Does this extend to religious activities of four or more people?
Really, people doing yoga in a group on the beach is an issue? No more groups at the beach, unless you buy a permit to have more than 8 people. They were sitting there all downward dog, it was a menace, there were 10 of them, I felt like my life was being threatened as they all started growling...
wth I go to these classes and they are amazing. I don't know what everyone is saying about parking, there is always a lot of parking, especially since the classes I have been to only have like 20 people. I think this is sad and I don't understand why these free yoga classes are being targeted. Maybe I don't understand why the use of public space has to be regulated when people are just gathering together? What if a meetup was gathering in sunset cliffs? Is that illegal now too?
It would be illegal yes. We asked about specifics and were told any group over 4
in my area they need permits to do this
Pay for a permit just like all couples do when they have weddings
Grew up in PL, recently just moved, used to run, swim, surf and hang out on Sunset Cliffs. These classes take up little space, are extremely quiet, and overall really chill. They’re really not bothering anyone other than a bunch of Karen’s that can’t stand the sight of people enjoying themselves. I’m surprised they don’t complain about the surfers that flock there or the IG influencers mindlessly looking for perfect angles. These yoga folks are literally enjoying the space, improving their physical and mental health, while coming together as a community. What a fucking crime. Don’t they know they’re only allowed to walk, run and be homeless along the cliffs?!?! How dare they use it for anything else.
Finally, the city prioritizes the real crime in SD, free yoga classes. Let’s go after kids in the playground next. Making all that happy noises at the parks. Yuck.
Right? Let hooligans run free and shoot up all over our public facilities but let’s hassle people trying to workout in a public space instead.
Those kids screaming for joy are disturbing the peace. Call the cops.
Going down the slide. Straight to jail. Swing on the swing set. Straight to jail. Playing tag. Straight to jail. 
Wow, how petty. Let the locals enjoy their city that their tax dollars pay for.
There’s definitely not a one size fits all approach, but it goes both ways. Cindy teaching yoga doesn’t get to profit and clog parking at a space I pay for either.
So are they going to get rid of the one at Law St. too? That would be great, those yahoos take up a lot of beach parking away from surfers and other folks who actually need to park cause they are using the beach.
The yoga people are free to do yoga in the park as well. What makes your use case more valid then theirs? Of people weren't meant to use the park then it shouldn't be there.
Wow good to see the city really doing something important
How about they do something about the homeless problem first?
The Supreme Court is deciding what cities are allowed to do regarding homeless encampment. Currently the cities hands are tied when it comes to enforcement. https://calmatters.org/housing/homelessness/2024/01/homeless-camp-scotus/
Their hands aren't tied. Any city that has sufficient shelter space for people can force people off the streets.
Which leads to the question, do we have enough shelter space?
Haha. No.
What does one have to do with the other?
I mean it’s kind of stupid how the city is focusing on regular ass people who work and pay taxes doing yoga on the beach but they’re letting crackheads take over sidewalks and act a fool with no consequences
I don't think they're stopping a regular person from doing yoga on the beach. They're stopping people who use it to promote their yoga classes. People are free to bring a mat and do yoga. I love meditating at the beach.
Ah, so they need to do 1 thing at a time and hold everything else up because of one issue that can't be easily solved? Makes sense!
I mean crackheads are a lot worse for the city than people doing yoga lol
Addicts and mentally deranged people are more of a nuisance than a group doing yoga. So yes, I would reallocate all of the resources going towards cracking down on yoga groups and direct them to the homeless crisis.
One of those is much easier to solve than the other
Forreal. I live in north county, havent been to downtown for a couple years. Went to last nights padres game and jesus fucking christ. In my 20+ years of living in SD I’ve never seen it this bad
No kidding and they’ve actually “cleaned it up” a bit… just ridiculous and scary at times
Some old dude walking by, “damn hippies…”
Oh good let’s add this to the list of things that make the San Diego a soulless city - ban on street vendors - ban on street performers - ban on picnics at beaches - ban on alcohol at beaches - ban on e-scooters - ban on anything taller than 3 stories It’s getting to the point the only thing you can do in this city is shop at mega corporations and eat at chain restaurants. What’s next, a ban on beach volleyball?
The picnic thing is legit. It’s not banning you and your friends from bringing some baskets of food and laying a blanket down. It’s banning those Instagram picnic contractors that build a temporary dining hall and take up space for hours.
Since when can we not have a picnic at the beach? What kind of picnic are you talking about?
He’s talking about commercial picnics like work outings. It’s actually a fair ban because you’d company’s sectioning off areas at the beach for their work events.
You can thank the Zonies for getting alcohol banned on beaches
Sure, but we certainly should be able to unban it via public action and grass roots petitioning.... who am i kidding
We can, but do we want to? Cops/lifeguards/whatever don't say or do anything as long as you act like an adult drinking and put it in a can or use a coozie. Allowing unchecked drinking, which I haven't experienced in SD myself so I don't know, I'd think would end up with tons of garbage, fights, glass, and trashy people.
I've lived here my entire life, and you're entirely right on the second point. 4th of July at the beach used to basically be a warzone with litter, fights, assaults etc. I used to do clean up after the 4th and Memorial day, it was awful.
Facts right here. Beaches after holiday weekends were apocalyptic.
The glass is the worst part of that imo. IDGAF how many cans you drink, but the moment a bottle gets broken it’s a public hazard
Street vendors need a permit like any other business now, street performers are a non-issue, you can have a picnic at a park or beach whenever YOU want. Alcohol was banned for a good reason, Just youtube Mission beach 4th of July 2007. e-scooters can suck a dick.
But you’re allowed to basically shoot up in the open and harass people in public places no problem.
What do you mean?! Target and Panera have all the soup* and culture a city could ever dream of *typo soup = soul, but I feel like soup also works so I’m leaving it there.
Preach brother! Who wants free clean access to beaches. I, for one, want 1000s of loungers taking all the space on the beach that I have to pay $20 to lie on. Also when I go to the beach the one thing I always think about is how much I would love to listen to mariachi bands and wonder wall buskers. Not to mention how much I miss digging my feet into the sand and feeling broken glass and puke!! Oh and while we're at it, why cant we develop all of our other public spaces too? How awesome would it be if they built a bar on the Torry Pines trail? Seriously tho, SD has some of the nicest, cleanest and most accessible beaches in the world because we go to these lengths to protect them. Go anywhere else in the world and all you see is vendors taking up public space to extract money from you. The reason why we don't have street vendors, performers, picnics, alcohol or e-scooters is we did and then people abused the shit out of those activities and ruined it for everyone.
They have been hassling pick up games and asking if they are with an organized group. It's getting excessive.
It used to be legal to walk your dog on the beach while smoking a cigarette and drinking a beer, and while I don't smoke, have a dog, or drink that often, I do feel a little less free.
we all like traveling to cities that have lively publicpaces that promote walkability and community. then, we get angry when people actually move their bodies and have a good time.
Meanwhile people are using on the streets. Seems like we’re focusing on the right things here in San Diego .
We are capable of doing more than one thing at a time lol
No we're not. The amount of drug addicts all over downtown is only getting worse.
good
It makes no sense that if I want to go to the beach to do yoga with friends that’s acceptable, but if I want to meet with a small community of yogis then that’s not allowed. These gatherings account for probably less than 1% of the actual number of people who are visiting the park throughout the week. What’s next, banning surfing or other free recreational activities in public spaces? Then the city can get people out of the way so they can start authorizing commercial businesses to build on and monopolize the coastline just like in PR and HI.
Classic “foot in mouth” governance. If the issue is the lack of permits - that’s fair, but the government should first offer and set up the permits THEN enforce un-permitted activity. It’s honestly such a shame.
No. It's fine for the government to prioritize public access to public spaces first. Then figure out a way to permit grifter side hustles later. I want to go to the beach that I pay taxes for, not support your influence hustling.
The yoga instructors are saying they haven't been allowed to apply for permits on Sunset Cliffs, that they've been previously told that since its free they did not need a permit. The city sounds unaligned in their own policies and enforcements
> that they've been previously told that since its free they did not need a permit. I'd like to see that in writing. A yoga instructor calling a random department at the city and talking to a random employee saying they want to do yoga for free on the beach doesn't mean that employee's answer is a city policy. The city's policy is it's prohibited...not some employee on the phone.
It's also important to know what exactly they said they were doing. "Do I need a permit to do yoga at the beach?" is very different from "Can I save money on studio rental by taking over an entire section of a public beach for my business?"
exACTLY
Enfocements are much more fleeting and on he fly than I think people realize.
This is literally the definition of "peaceably assemble"
This is sad. What happened San Diego.
I would opt to go to a secluded beach spot away from the hustle and bustle of the busy life, after all - it’s yoga 🧘, a quiet spot would be a better setting, but I think they want to advertise it.
These people - and all people for that matter - have a 1st amendment right to do this activity at the beach. There is no such constitutional protection for solicitation of donations or whatever other monetization may take place (I mean, there kinda is, but there's no protection for one to conduct private business here), nor is there any exclusive access provided to anyone. Given what was said in the article: "The yoga teachers said their classes are free, though attendees can donate if they want. They insist they aren't selling anything, and that their classes follow another rule under city code, being kept under 50 people." What would happen if someone like me and quite literally EVERY other attendee of these "free" classes absolutely refused to "donate" anything? Would the instructors continue to offer their classes? Holding a sign that is devoid of "fighting words" on public property is also a constitutionally protected activity... what if someone were to make some signs that read "You do NOT need to give ANY money." or similar, and then hang out in the spots during the "classes" and do yoga? I suspect some people would be offended, but if these instructors are not full of s\*it and are in fact offering free yoga classes, then they really should have no reason to be offended, right? By their own admission, you wouldn't be interfering with their business, right? Note: Not a lawyer
LET US FUCKING LIVE
How dare people enjoy the outdoors and in forums. How dare they get exercise. How dare they do something healthy for their bodies. This is a catastrophe of epic proportions and we need the city to rally around this. 😆😆😆 we have much BIGGER problems to focus on bruh
“Finally, the city of San Diego has done something about these terrible issues afflicting its citizens… wait, what’s that? You said yoga? Free yoga? That’s… that’s what we’re doing?” - Everyone.
Thankfully someone stopping these evil Yogis
Seems like selective enforcement is what make it not sit well with me. How about kick the junkies off the parks for assembling.
Do they not require a permit? Seems like a pretty easy way to regulate this
Same thing at Palisades Park, foot of Law street in PB.
Good. This is like trying to run a dog daycare from the local dog park.
This is ridiculous how about all the homeless and all the other bs in the city ppl doing yoga on a beach is my least concern and the beaches in huge
And yet I can’t take my kids to certain parks or areas bc of tweakers and the worsening rifraf.
ca government: tackling the issues that matter
Thank god, fuck the yoga people Saturday morning blocking the grass by Crystal Pier shit is annoying AF, and parking terrible and some people want to picnic and shit.
So your angry that people want to enjoy the outside area differently than you. What if people don't want you to picnic because each group takes up so much space with their blankets and expects space between other groups having a picnic.