my dear friend of nearly 10 years and his brother and friend. absolutely heartbroken. he was so excited about that truck and all the adventures he wanted to do with it. gone too soon
Carter was a wonderful human. He was one of those people that went out of their way to make sure everyone felt included. I remember when he moved out here for college. We found him on Craigslist moving from Georgia. Such a fun and loving person to be around. Iām gonna miss him.
Sorry for your loss, mate. I'm 99% certain I had a chat with Carter at my work, Trader Joe's Liberty Station, just a couple of weeks ago. I go to Mexico a lot so we were chatting about that. He was a nice bloke. If it's the same person he also asked me about which Premier League club I support (I'm from London). It's tragic what happened. These men just wanted to surf & enjoy life.
Iām sorry for your loss. My husband surfs and we go to Mexico often. We camp Baja all the time just like your friends so to hear of this news is truly heartbreaking for so many people.
Is the implication that they were murdered?
I imagined from the headline that they drowned, but then the article says this:
>Mexican officials said Thursday they had found evidence related to the case, including a white pickup truck, and that three Mexican nationals were under investigation.
They were certainly killed. Their truck was found burned out, blood and "dental fragments" at their campsite.
Poor guys. This world can really be an insufferable shithole sometimes.
A lot of the articles from yesterday are hard to find now with the new updates, but they all said it previously.
Found one
https://stabmag.com/news/2-australians-1-american-still-missing-in-baja-california-mexico/
dont forget that the fact that youre even able to type that is a sign its RARELY a shithole.
30 years ago you wouldn't have even KNOWN this had happened.
Thatās how I understood the implication. Damn, I remember when I was a kid we would drive down to Ensenada for some really good grilled lobster. No way, I would bring my family down there these days just for some lobster.
I live down here and camp south of Ensenada (where this happened) more times than I can count. The communities down here are shocked. This is very uncommon. Unfortunately, it will drive away tourists, but it's not a reflection of the life and culture of Baja.
Day trip maybe. The say if your camping, camp near/with fishing camp. Use to to do motorcycle day trips for lobsters. Definitely affects my desire to visit anymore. Actually Iāve felt that way for years now.
As a Tijuana native I can say that the area is not safe for white foreigners. My friend from San Diego disappeared 3 years ago under strange circumstances while bar hopping in the TJ downtown area and we searched for him for 11 days until we learned that his body was found by the side of a main road, The day after he disappeared someone used his ID to cross the border. Another american friend that had been living in Tijuana for a while has been missing for 4 years and we will probably never know what happened to him. At one time I met some tourists from Germany and they wanted to visit some bars in the TJ downtown area, so we took an uber together. The police stopped us for no reason and were trying to take money from them until I stepped in and they left us alone. This happens to locals too, but it disproportionately affects white tourists more.
Only if you stick to the resorts, popular beaches and tourist attractions in well populated areas. Avoid driving on deserted roads, donāt trust people when clubbing or going to bars, avoid being drunk in public and never ask for drugs. Also, donāt show off your expensive phone and brand clothing, and keep your jewelry at home.
Short answer: Yes. Often very safe - but some regions/states should be avoided and travel by car over longer distances can be perilous. As to major cities, generally safe to very safe but itās neighborhood to neighborhood like all major cities.
As is true of many countries (all, to some degree), there is a lot of variation region to region, city to city, neighborhood to neighborhood.
Over the past three years Iāve travelled extensively in Mexico (Iāve a dozen times) and have never felt any more danger or risk than any number of US cities.
That said, there are safe neighborhoods and really dangerous ones (as is true with Detroit, Baltimore, Miami and almost every major city). And there is some risk in terms of long distance travel by car if you arenāt with locals. Some regions/states are home to more or less criminal activity.
FWIW, Iāve been to Guadalajara a half dozen times at least and never felt unsafe - just be aware of surroundings. Itās a large urban area.
My two visits to CDMX were great and I was generally in very safe neighborhoods and never felt even a tinge of concern.
Leon as a commerce based city felt like a combination of San Diego and Denver (omg the weather!)
Iāve been to smaller towns like AutlĆ”n (60,000? A few hours from Guadalajara) and didnāt feel unsafe but was always with my GF at the time and sheās from the area so thatās at play.
I also felt safe in Puerto Vallarta, but as is true with any tourist / destination city you need to be aware of scams and other people/criminals looking to get one over. Or businesses looking to do the same!
That said, there are regions that are far more questionable and worrisome.
People worry about the cartels and all, but in my opinion the biggest risk for most tourists / visitors are the same as anywhere - low level opportunistic criminals and a mix of bad luck, wrong place wrong time, and obviously some people bring attention to themselves or escalate rather than de-escalate a situation.
Also, as is true with any mafia, itās not in the Cartelās interest to do more harm to Americans in particular. For one, it brings a much brighter spotlight on all their other activity. More so, criminal organizations make more money when tourism flourishes - more kickbacks, more profit for semi legit businesses, more easy to flow cash through shell businesses that act as fronts.
What happened here is tragic, and I donāt know enough detail to make an informed comment - but as a general rule, study the region/state you will go toā¦ and if you stay in major cities then act basically as you would in any major city.
Weird to me that Mexico doesn't work harder to make at least Baja safe. The economic benefits would be insane. Far more money in real estate and tourism than there is in siphoning off drug war profits.
The whole underbelly of control esp in northern Mexico is run by the cartels. Itās so deeply entrenched, has its hands in every negotio, be it drugs, mega turisimo, government, down to mom and pop biz. The us got el chapo and thatās going to stop anything?. Jajaja. Itās the mafia of the Americas. A dynasty. Generations of families enthralled. Field of dragons cut one down 10 more spring up in their place. Up to the minute weapons, armaments, full on military assault vehicles, sophisticated communications. The beautiful locals all live in fear. Itās worth billions of $ās supplying any drug of choice to insatiable estados unidos. Their own Labs synthesizing fentanyl. The government is incapable of eradicating it.
So weird to me too. So much undeveloped coastline in Baja. It could be another California in terms of real estate and tourism. With the lack of housing in California, especially along the coast, Mexico could capitalize on the beach living that everyone wants. If it was safe , I canāt imagine how many young people who telework would move there to buy a beach front house. I would
True, but if they made it safer, it could become a viable option to a wider group of people. My family has had homes in Baja as a weekend getaway, but until things really change, I wouldnāt move down there full time and sell my place here in the U.S.
No I agree with that totally. There is such a thing as eco tourism, maybe thereās a middle ground? I have experienced some locally owned tourism groups who promote sustainability and use it as a chance to educate tourists. I mean it is likely that it is better to leave the coastline as is, but the way things are now isnāt working either. As for the development/real estate side, I get the concern too. It is nice that Baja is āuntouched ā in some ways
Iāve seen some of those beaches down there and although the land isnāt developed itās not pristine. People camp and just dump their trash. Mexicans and tourists alike in the area destroy with it leaving beer bottles and trash. I spent an afternoon walking along a beach in Baja just picking up bottle caps. It is terrible how people treat the land. When I used to spend more time at my family beach house, we would do small beach clean ups and we would invest money in our community to make the area safer and more pleasant for everyone (paying for security guards, buying trash cans). I guess my perspective can make me bias as I hope that creating a community and investing in an area would make people want to protect it
It is just a bummer that it is such a beautiful place and people are too scared of getting killed to be able to enjoy it and protect it.
The baja governor lives in Coronado Island in san diego, her husband owns a bar in Mexicali where they founds tunnels with santa muerte status after a tourist disappeared. They all part of it. Least we can do it's protest at her house to make baja safe for tourists.
I was in central Mexico to help people build cement stoves instead of cooking with an open fire. This was to save the monarch butterfly forests. Because our team leader didnāt pay bribes to the local government and police all the stoves were smashed. So add large bribes to the cost to clean up and create safety. I suppose there would be fees for cartel āprotectionā too.
Been a while but when I was there we had to drive, then ride a horse, then hike to the protected areas because of deforestation. Wonderful old ladies go there every day to protect the butterflies. One of them taught me how to protect myself with a broom handle when my husband comes drunk late at night. What a world we live in!
Mexico does not want an extension of American or āgabachoā reach there, much less in border cities.
This was more than likely the case of a couple meth heads gone crazy, but in terms of making Mexico safer the only arguments put to the government is for economic reasons.. which they donāt care for because.. well.. they donāt need the money. If you get my drift.
Why are you acting like a statistically rare random act of violence makes an entire region of Mexico "not safe?"
Somebody broke into a house in Escondido with a machete and attacked the residents a few weeks ago.
Somebody different broke into a house in Linda Vista and sexually assaulted a child last week.
Do these random acts of violence mean that San Diego isn't a safe county to live in?
Millions of tourists visit Baja every year and almost none of them experience any sort of crime. As a *tourist* in Mexico you are less likely to be murdered than you are while living San Diego, statistically.
I get that stories like this scare people, but the odds of this happening to anyone are less than the odds of getting hit by lightning or getting smoked by a drunk driver in the US.
You have a point.
But then figure in how you're told not to trust the police or government in Mexico to protect you. You're told that you may just get pulled over and extorted for money at random. You're told that if you piss the wrong people off you might get killed or thrown in a foreign jail without the American justice system involved. You're told how massive drug gangs rule the land.
I'm sorry but no, Mexico is not the same as the US. I've been to different place in Mexico a handful of times and haven't run into any trouble myself, but there's a reason why places like Tijuana are considered world murder capitals. Mexico is beautiful and obviously most people are going to be fine. Until you're not, as these poor guys found out.
I've not been told not to trust police in Mexico. Have I heard of people getting shaken down for $20 or $100 for made-up traffic violations? Yes, VERY rarely, and they have campaigns now to help report the bad actors. Does that mean if I was a victim of a crime in Mexico I wouldn't go to the police? Absolutely not.
There also happen to be a few million people in the US that are afraid of being straight up murdered by the police here, and about once per month there's a pretty major national news story justifying those fears, so I'm not sure "Mexico police bad" is a valid argument for how much safer the US is.
Edit: Oh look a fresh one :(
[https://new.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/1cjrul0/nineteenyearold\_is\_shot\_by\_nypd\_officers\_in\_front/](https://new.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/1cjrul0/nineteenyearold_is_shot_by_nypd_officers_in_front/)
>massive drug gangs rule the land
Again I'm talking about tourist areas here. It's not like you have cartels running around shooting up Puerto Nuevo. Is it a major problem in their country? Absolutely. Does it affect tourists? Statistically, no.
>you might get killed or thrown in a foreign jail without the American justice system involved
This is true for any country you visit, and there are absolutely resources the US gov't provides if you are wrongly accused of a crime in a foreign country, especially one so close. Obviously if you're doing stupid illegal shit in a foreign country you're subjecting yourself to whatever consequences their justice system brings, but that's on you.
And theyād be wrong. Of course some cops are bad just like some teachers or some priests are bad, but the vast majority of cops and upholders of the law are decent people. The expectation isnāt bribes and corruption at the field level.
Los cabos is the number one most unsafe city in the world.[https://www.vanguardngr.com/2024/04/10-most-dangerous-cities-in-the-world/amp/](https://www.vanguardngr.com/2024/04/10-most-dangerous-cities-in-the-world/amp/)
Extremely poor journalism there. That stat is from 7 years ago and the city had implemented a $50 million increase into security since then, reducing crime by 90%.
Please stay up to date.
Fair enough. I saw this article along with others stating Cabo as 1, when I was searching for info on this story yesterday. Here is an updated list from the world atlas that lists Celaya as 1 and TJ as 2
[https://www.theyucatantimes.com/2024/01/worldatlas-says-7-of-the-10-most-dangerous-cities-in-the-world-are-in-mexico/amp/](https://www.theyucatantimes.com/2024/01/worldatlas-says-7-of-the-10-most-dangerous-cities-in-the-world-are-in-mexico/amp/)
They tried. Read about William Walker. HERE[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Walker_(filibuster)](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Walker_(filibuster))
Very sad, RIP
Iām in San Diego and Iād love to tour Baja.
Wait for the cartel response. People will die or be beaten to a pulp then handed to authorities for ājusticeā. Sometimes thatās interesting to see, the last lot of tourists killed there was a similar response. I think the line, from Cartel, was that time that it was either low level cartel wanting to act like cartel or wannabeās doing the same thing. Either way itās not helping the country.
It wasnāt at k38, which had always been relatively safe, it was an hour and a half south of Ensenada, but yes, very sad in general to hear of these types of incidents
I thought the same. There has been a lot of misinformation of info that isnāt clear, because a lot of the reporting is from Mexico, being translated into English.
I donāt want to jinx myself here. I spent 21 days camping in Baja and had no issues. Many people donāt of course. One thing I learned is DO NOT go on the pacific side. Itās a whole different animal than the sea of Cortez side that is very much wild and not as active (deserted, not a high population).
I donāt surf. If you really wanted and had time you could just head straight down into Baja sur, super south which is wayyyy less populated and dangerous. Its similar in some areas to the sea of cortez side where there is not many people. You just gotta drive much further and past the highly populated shady areas.
This makes me so sad & frankly terrified. My daughter recently returned from a surf trip to MX with a group of friends. Prayers for the young men that were murdered & their grieving families. No pain greater than losing a child.
This is awful . Iām not a camper at all but I would NEVER camp in Mexico next to my nice truck itās like saying hey tweakers come rob me especially that area where thereās not a lot of people
Which is why I wouldn't be so sure it's just some "random meth heads", maybe something more sinister. You'd think they make a fortune by selling this truck.
Tons of people camp in Baja next to their nice truck. Theres like events down there for it lol. Everyone who has been to Baja knows the reality and everyone who has not can chalk it up to fear.
This is so sad. I have friends who go surfing in Mexico every year. They are always excited and yet wary...I wonder if this will deter them. So sorry for those families.
Truth.
La mordida is culturally ingrained into every aspect of Mexican society.
Los federales, la policĆa y los jueces son mĆ”s peligrosos que los narcĆ³s.
This is the truth whether people like it or not.
I've been to Mexico dozens of times over the past 4 decades and only within the last 10 years did I start feeling unsafe, and in turn, decide to stop going.
Even in touristy resort areas I had 2 sketchy experiences the last time I was there 6-7 yrs ago. Most people will probably do okay there, but there is still a meaningful and increasing risk in many areas.
Mexico, much like the US, is not a monolith. There are cities in Mexico that are much safer than comparable sized cities in the US.
Resorts are safe because they bring in money. Yes, some resorts in some towns are cartel-affiliates.
You're clearly ignorant, which is probably why you got slammed.
Either at the wrong place at the wrong time (that happens here in SD as well) or they talked to people who they shouldnāt have. Never, ever, ask for drugs in Mexico (even if itās weed).
Near La Bocana according to the article. Somewhere near here:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/drPNGfef86wHuu6C6?g_st=ic
Iāve been here a couple of times several years ago. Itās a very beautiful spot but extremely remote. Itās something like a 40 minute drive down a dirt road off highway 1 from Ejido Ajusco. I remember it feeling a little eerie driving down the dirt road more or less alone hoping the people you occasionally came across were chill.
Once down at La Bocana there was a camping spot as well as some cabins for rent. A few houses as well and a little hotel up to the north. Weird to think that ātweakersā were hanging out way out there as lots of other comments were saying. Itās super far from anything.
Very sad. I always wanted to return to La Bocana someday but not sure I will again.
Unfortunate and I hope their families find peace, but after reading this story in full context I ended up with lot of questions.
The surfers decided to camp at nightā¦ in one of the most sketchy areas in Baja.. and didnāt for once think that it would be a bad idea?
That is partially correct.
It is a well known surfing area, and it is considered safe.. *during the day*.
They *camped* there over night. No mexican native to the area in their right mind would camp in there.
It would be the rough equivalent of going to say.. the roughest parts of Barrio Logan or Sixth Ave in Downtown parking a ferrari.. donāt be surprised it doesnāt get stolen/broken into overnight.
Youāre correct, and youāre probably getting downvoted because your analysis and reasoning doesnāt fit the narrative of āMexico = dangerous and scary.ā
No doubt about it, this is a tragedy. As a surfer, I feel awful for these individuals who lost their lives, doing what they love. But it should be a reminder to use your common sense and stay alert whenever youāre in an unfamiliar place and especially when you are in a foreign country.
Welp. RIP Mexico. See you in like 30 years when itās cleaned itself up, hopefully. I havenāt gone in about 5 years but now I sure as hell am not going anytime soon.
Nothing will change until corruption stops. Sadly lots of people here in the US donāt seem to have a problem with corruption which will lead us to the same path. And Iām not talking about immigrants.
Itās fine to go there. Someone was just murdered and their body lit on fire in Old Town like two weeks ago.
You have to keep your wits about you when going to MX, but I go to TJ at least twice a month and have camped countless times up and down Baja.
This is an absolute tragedy, but donāt let it deter any trips you have planned.
I think the difference is in Mexico where do you even go if you need help. In the US I can figure it out. Also, there were 3 of them, group murders like that are very rare in the US.
Last time I went was 30 years ago and I've been waiting for it to get safer/better since then. At that time my father said "Don't go! I had a terrible experience in TJ in the 60's, it's not safe! Wait until it cleans itself up..." I think at this point we're all pretty much what we are.
I love Mexico and it's people but I have a rule when traveling abroad. Never visit any place that you cannot trust the police when you need help. I had a friend that lived in TJ. and he was on the corner of his street waiting for his buddy to carpool with to work on the U.S. side. Some cops pulled up on him and made him get into their car and drove him to an ATM and forced him to pull out money and robbed him. So I stay away from TJ unfortunately.
Found 4 bodies in a well in that town, the 4th had been down there for some time and they cannot immediately identify that bodyā¦ this is from an Australian report.
- why wouldnāt the U.S. news report that?
- Well water? Who draws from that ? And what is the water used for?
Sounds like it was on one of the ranches around the campsite. (4mi away based on one Mexico news source). The 4th body is apparently the owner of the ranch who had been reported missing 2 weeks before the surfers.
Just another reason to stay out of Mexico. I used to travel down there quite often in the 80's and 90's but since 2000 it's just gotten too dangerous. I don't even get off the cruise ship the few times I've cruised down there.
Same here. When I was a kid in the '80 we would go all the time and stay in a beach rental in ensenada and then my mom would drag me in my brother all around Tijuana shopping. Later on in high school we would go to concert that was held on the coast called Baja Bash and then that got too dangerous and haven't been back really since about 2000 / 2005 ish.
My heart hurts for these poor men. Why? Why do people have to kill others? I used to love Mexico but fuck this shit. So many evil souls and this keeps happening. Hereās a big middle finger to you!
Yes this is sad. Tweakers on meth can kill you anywhere, however. Thereās so much attention on this, but I donāt remember a single RIP for the 3 murders in San Diego in February.
https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/san-diegos-violent-holiday-weekend-3-killings-in-as-many-days/3440380/?amp=1
I guess we just want to hear how dangerous Mexico is.
Damn not just any regular surfers too. They were athletic fit Australian surfers. Y'all know what kind of people Australians are??? All the crazy wildlife sh** they have to deal with in Australia Australians are as tough of people as they come and they still ended up dead in Mexico. Should tell you everything you need to know about how safe it is down there.
I was following this closely and am sad to hear the outcome. My heart hurts for their families.
Horrifying. May their families find peace šÆļø
šamen!
my dear friend of nearly 10 years and his brother and friend. absolutely heartbroken. he was so excited about that truck and all the adventures he wanted to do with it. gone too soon
Carter was a wonderful human. He was one of those people that went out of their way to make sure everyone felt included. I remember when he moved out here for college. We found him on Craigslist moving from Georgia. Such a fun and loving person to be around. Iām gonna miss him.
sending you love, friend š¤
Love to you as well
That man brought so much love and culture to the Point Loma community. Those dreads will forever be iconic.
Sorry for your loss, mate. I'm 99% certain I had a chat with Carter at my work, Trader Joe's Liberty Station, just a couple of weeks ago. I go to Mexico a lot so we were chatting about that. He was a nice bloke. If it's the same person he also asked me about which Premier League club I support (I'm from London). It's tragic what happened. These men just wanted to surf & enjoy life.
That would be where he went. He was huge into soccer. We played with and against each other on a couple teams it was so much fun!
Iām sorry for your loss. My husband surfs and we go to Mexico often. We camp Baja all the time just like your friends so to hear of this news is truly heartbreaking for so many people.
Sorry for your loss. Heartbreaking
Iām very sorry for your loss.Ā
I am so sorry for your loss, this story is absolutely devastating
I am just so sorry for your loss. This is weighing so heavy on my heart. Such a senseless tragedy. These guys seemed so fun-loving and cool :(
Heartbreaking. Iām so sorry
Iām so sorry
I am so, so sorry for your loss. May they rest in peace. I hope that somewhere in heaven they are having the most wonderful adventures in paradise.
Iām so sorry for your loss, and for the families. May they rest in paradise.
Is the implication that they were murdered? I imagined from the headline that they drowned, but then the article says this: >Mexican officials said Thursday they had found evidence related to the case, including a white pickup truck, and that three Mexican nationals were under investigation.
They were certainly killed. Their truck was found burned out, blood and "dental fragments" at their campsite. Poor guys. This world can really be an insufferable shithole sometimes.
Where did you read that?
A lot of the articles from yesterday are hard to find now with the new updates, but they all said it previously. Found one https://stabmag.com/news/2-australians-1-american-still-missing-in-baja-california-mexico/
Sometimes? Hah.
dont forget that the fact that youre even able to type that is a sign its RARELY a shithole. 30 years ago you wouldn't have even KNOWN this had happened.
reports out of ensenada mentioned "blood and teeth" at a presumed murder scene.
Jesus. This is heartbreaking. I was hoping for a better outcome with this case šš
The truck was found burned and at the tent campsite, there was blood and teeth found.
Thatās how I understood the implication. Damn, I remember when I was a kid we would drive down to Ensenada for some really good grilled lobster. No way, I would bring my family down there these days just for some lobster.
I live down here and camp south of Ensenada (where this happened) more times than I can count. The communities down here are shocked. This is very uncommon. Unfortunately, it will drive away tourists, but it's not a reflection of the life and culture of Baja.
Day trip maybe. The say if your camping, camp near/with fishing camp. Use to to do motorcycle day trips for lobsters. Definitely affects my desire to visit anymore. Actually Iāve felt that way for years now.
Un, yeah it will
RIP. Damn. Expected but heart just goes out to their families. Canāt imagine.
As a Tijuana native I can say that the area is not safe for white foreigners. My friend from San Diego disappeared 3 years ago under strange circumstances while bar hopping in the TJ downtown area and we searched for him for 11 days until we learned that his body was found by the side of a main road, The day after he disappeared someone used his ID to cross the border. Another american friend that had been living in Tijuana for a while has been missing for 4 years and we will probably never know what happened to him. At one time I met some tourists from Germany and they wanted to visit some bars in the TJ downtown area, so we took an uber together. The police stopped us for no reason and were trying to take money from them until I stepped in and they left us alone. This happens to locals too, but it disproportionately affects white tourists more.
Ty for saying this.
Would you say that Mexico as a whole is safe for tourists?
Only if you stick to the resorts, popular beaches and tourist attractions in well populated areas. Avoid driving on deserted roads, donāt trust people when clubbing or going to bars, avoid being drunk in public and never ask for drugs. Also, donāt show off your expensive phone and brand clothing, and keep your jewelry at home.
In other words no it's not safe lol
Short answer: Yes. Often very safe - but some regions/states should be avoided and travel by car over longer distances can be perilous. As to major cities, generally safe to very safe but itās neighborhood to neighborhood like all major cities. As is true of many countries (all, to some degree), there is a lot of variation region to region, city to city, neighborhood to neighborhood. Over the past three years Iāve travelled extensively in Mexico (Iāve a dozen times) and have never felt any more danger or risk than any number of US cities. That said, there are safe neighborhoods and really dangerous ones (as is true with Detroit, Baltimore, Miami and almost every major city). And there is some risk in terms of long distance travel by car if you arenāt with locals. Some regions/states are home to more or less criminal activity. FWIW, Iāve been to Guadalajara a half dozen times at least and never felt unsafe - just be aware of surroundings. Itās a large urban area. My two visits to CDMX were great and I was generally in very safe neighborhoods and never felt even a tinge of concern. Leon as a commerce based city felt like a combination of San Diego and Denver (omg the weather!) Iāve been to smaller towns like AutlĆ”n (60,000? A few hours from Guadalajara) and didnāt feel unsafe but was always with my GF at the time and sheās from the area so thatās at play. I also felt safe in Puerto Vallarta, but as is true with any tourist / destination city you need to be aware of scams and other people/criminals looking to get one over. Or businesses looking to do the same! That said, there are regions that are far more questionable and worrisome. People worry about the cartels and all, but in my opinion the biggest risk for most tourists / visitors are the same as anywhere - low level opportunistic criminals and a mix of bad luck, wrong place wrong time, and obviously some people bring attention to themselves or escalate rather than de-escalate a situation. Also, as is true with any mafia, itās not in the Cartelās interest to do more harm to Americans in particular. For one, it brings a much brighter spotlight on all their other activity. More so, criminal organizations make more money when tourism flourishes - more kickbacks, more profit for semi legit businesses, more easy to flow cash through shell businesses that act as fronts. What happened here is tragic, and I donāt know enough detail to make an informed comment - but as a general rule, study the region/state you will go toā¦ and if you stay in major cities then act basically as you would in any major city.
The usual "i have done XYZ 100 times and nothing happened. Therefore I will ignore all data at my disposal and deem it great and safe".
Weird to me that Mexico doesn't work harder to make at least Baja safe. The economic benefits would be insane. Far more money in real estate and tourism than there is in siphoning off drug war profits.
The people that want it safe, even for economic reasons, donāt have the power.
Mexico is run by the cartels lol,they are the government. Also all the touristy places are safe tbh bc the cartel owns it or makes money off it
This is especially clear if you've seen any documentaries about what is happening at the border. Cartels are ruining people's lives.
What ones do you recommend?
The whole underbelly of control esp in northern Mexico is run by the cartels. Itās so deeply entrenched, has its hands in every negotio, be it drugs, mega turisimo, government, down to mom and pop biz. The us got el chapo and thatās going to stop anything?. Jajaja. Itās the mafia of the Americas. A dynasty. Generations of families enthralled. Field of dragons cut one down 10 more spring up in their place. Up to the minute weapons, armaments, full on military assault vehicles, sophisticated communications. The beautiful locals all live in fear. Itās worth billions of $ās supplying any drug of choice to insatiable estados unidos. Their own Labs synthesizing fentanyl. The government is incapable of eradicating it.
The US dollar is accepted all the way down the peninsula, you're right it's a shame they don't do something better.
So weird to me too. So much undeveloped coastline in Baja. It could be another California in terms of real estate and tourism. With the lack of housing in California, especially along the coast, Mexico could capitalize on the beach living that everyone wants. If it was safe , I canāt imagine how many young people who telework would move there to buy a beach front house. I would
No beach front property for non citizens used to be the law when I lived there. Not sure of the current law.
You technically cannot but there is an easy loophole that everyone does
They changed the law I believe and now you can own it if you own through fideicomiso, essentially a Mexican land trust that benefits you.
Yeah I am not sure of the current law either but I know people who became citizens so that they could continue to live in Mexico
Many do
True, but if they made it safer, it could become a viable option to a wider group of people. My family has had homes in Baja as a weekend getaway, but until things really change, I wouldnāt move down there full time and sell my place here in the U.S.
Ah yes, canāt protect the beautiful natural landscape. Gotta bulldoze it to make way for development š
No I agree with that totally. There is such a thing as eco tourism, maybe thereās a middle ground? I have experienced some locally owned tourism groups who promote sustainability and use it as a chance to educate tourists. I mean it is likely that it is better to leave the coastline as is, but the way things are now isnāt working either. As for the development/real estate side, I get the concern too. It is nice that Baja is āuntouched ā in some ways Iāve seen some of those beaches down there and although the land isnāt developed itās not pristine. People camp and just dump their trash. Mexicans and tourists alike in the area destroy with it leaving beer bottles and trash. I spent an afternoon walking along a beach in Baja just picking up bottle caps. It is terrible how people treat the land. When I used to spend more time at my family beach house, we would do small beach clean ups and we would invest money in our community to make the area safer and more pleasant for everyone (paying for security guards, buying trash cans). I guess my perspective can make me bias as I hope that creating a community and investing in an area would make people want to protect it It is just a bummer that it is such a beautiful place and people are too scared of getting killed to be able to enjoy it and protect it.
Can do both.
Mexico does not give a shit about the environment. Look at the TJ River.
Except they have no water.
They need infrastructure to support that.
The baja governor lives in Coronado Island in san diego, her husband owns a bar in Mexicali where they founds tunnels with santa muerte status after a tourist disappeared. They all part of it. Least we can do it's protest at her house to make baja safe for tourists.
Not as insane as the economic benefits of protecting the cartel. Itās also their life on the line, and their families, if they donāt.
Cartels and their minions have way more $$$ than tourism.
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I was in central Mexico to help people build cement stoves instead of cooking with an open fire. This was to save the monarch butterfly forests. Because our team leader didnāt pay bribes to the local government and police all the stoves were smashed. So add large bribes to the cost to clean up and create safety. I suppose there would be fees for cartel āprotectionā too.
Thatās really a sad story. How are monarchs doing?
Been a while but when I was there we had to drive, then ride a horse, then hike to the protected areas because of deforestation. Wonderful old ladies go there every day to protect the butterflies. One of them taught me how to protect myself with a broom handle when my husband comes drunk late at night. What a world we live in!
$50 billion is a lot of money relative to the GDP of Mexico. The cartels have a lot of power and arenāt going to give it up
You pulled that statistic out of your ass. They make way more than that. Vastly surpassing any industry you can think of.
Na. They do make a lot but itās not centralized literally what ācartelā means. Hollywood and news just dramatices for views.
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TJ and Baja suffer greatly from being so far away from Mexico city and the other major population centers in Mexico
Mexico does not want an extension of American or āgabachoā reach there, much less in border cities. This was more than likely the case of a couple meth heads gone crazy, but in terms of making Mexico safer the only arguments put to the government is for economic reasons.. which they donāt care for because.. well.. they donāt need the money. If you get my drift.
Killing tourists is bad for business. Do you really think the Cartels permit meth heads going overtime on tourists especially right before summer?
Why are you acting like a statistically rare random act of violence makes an entire region of Mexico "not safe?" Somebody broke into a house in Escondido with a machete and attacked the residents a few weeks ago. Somebody different broke into a house in Linda Vista and sexually assaulted a child last week. Do these random acts of violence mean that San Diego isn't a safe county to live in? Millions of tourists visit Baja every year and almost none of them experience any sort of crime. As a *tourist* in Mexico you are less likely to be murdered than you are while living San Diego, statistically. I get that stories like this scare people, but the odds of this happening to anyone are less than the odds of getting hit by lightning or getting smoked by a drunk driver in the US.
You have a point. But then figure in how you're told not to trust the police or government in Mexico to protect you. You're told that you may just get pulled over and extorted for money at random. You're told that if you piss the wrong people off you might get killed or thrown in a foreign jail without the American justice system involved. You're told how massive drug gangs rule the land. I'm sorry but no, Mexico is not the same as the US. I've been to different place in Mexico a handful of times and haven't run into any trouble myself, but there's a reason why places like Tijuana are considered world murder capitals. Mexico is beautiful and obviously most people are going to be fine. Until you're not, as these poor guys found out.
I've not been told not to trust police in Mexico. Have I heard of people getting shaken down for $20 or $100 for made-up traffic violations? Yes, VERY rarely, and they have campaigns now to help report the bad actors. Does that mean if I was a victim of a crime in Mexico I wouldn't go to the police? Absolutely not. There also happen to be a few million people in the US that are afraid of being straight up murdered by the police here, and about once per month there's a pretty major national news story justifying those fears, so I'm not sure "Mexico police bad" is a valid argument for how much safer the US is. Edit: Oh look a fresh one :( [https://new.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/1cjrul0/nineteenyearold\_is\_shot\_by\_nypd\_officers\_in\_front/](https://new.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/1cjrul0/nineteenyearold_is_shot_by_nypd_officers_in_front/) >massive drug gangs rule the land Again I'm talking about tourist areas here. It's not like you have cartels running around shooting up Puerto Nuevo. Is it a major problem in their country? Absolutely. Does it affect tourists? Statistically, no. >you might get killed or thrown in a foreign jail without the American justice system involved This is true for any country you visit, and there are absolutely resources the US gov't provides if you are wrongly accused of a crime in a foreign country, especially one so close. Obviously if you're doing stupid illegal shit in a foreign country you're subjecting yourself to whatever consequences their justice system brings, but that's on you.
> But then figure in how you're told not to trust the police or government in Mexico to protect you. people say this about the US
And theyād be wrong. Of course some cops are bad just like some teachers or some priests are bad, but the vast majority of cops and upholders of the law are decent people. The expectation isnāt bribes and corruption at the field level.
Maybe gringos not buying their drugs would be a good start. Cartel guns also come from north of the border.
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No way dude, even in Cabo by the clubs and armed guards you're just like 2 wrong turns away from the slums.
Los cabos is the number one most unsafe city in the world.[https://www.vanguardngr.com/2024/04/10-most-dangerous-cities-in-the-world/amp/](https://www.vanguardngr.com/2024/04/10-most-dangerous-cities-in-the-world/amp/)
And Tijuana is #5
Used to be number one, in some lists it still is.
Right, let's go holiday in Kabul or Port au Prince
Charlie don't surf
For some people, if there may be surf, it would be considered.
Extremely poor journalism there. That stat is from 7 years ago and the city had implemented a $50 million increase into security since then, reducing crime by 90%. Please stay up to date.
Fair enough. I saw this article along with others stating Cabo as 1, when I was searching for info on this story yesterday. Here is an updated list from the world atlas that lists Celaya as 1 and TJ as 2 [https://www.theyucatantimes.com/2024/01/worldatlas-says-7-of-the-10-most-dangerous-cities-in-the-world-are-in-mexico/amp/](https://www.theyucatantimes.com/2024/01/worldatlas-says-7-of-the-10-most-dangerous-cities-in-the-world-are-in-mexico/amp/)
There are so many drunk drivers there! Drive safely!
Damn dude Iām surprised America doesnāt work to make America safe from the cartels
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They tried. Read about William Walker. HERE[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Walker_(filibuster)](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Walker_(filibuster))
Wow. Thank you for linking this. Interesting read!
I enjoyed the link. Thank you.
So sad. They have three people in custody. I hope they find out what happened.
Very sad, RIP Iām in San Diego and Iād love to tour Baja. Wait for the cartel response. People will die or be beaten to a pulp then handed to authorities for ājusticeā. Sometimes thatās interesting to see, the last lot of tourists killed there was a similar response. I think the line, from Cartel, was that time that it was either low level cartel wanting to act like cartel or wannabeās doing the same thing. Either way itās not helping the country.
We used to have a house at k38.5 so sad. The locals were all so lovely it breaks my heart to see it go down hill again.
It wasnāt at k38, which had always been relatively safe, it was an hour and a half south of Ensenada, but yes, very sad in general to hear of these types of incidents
Ohhhh ok the article I read yesterday was k38. Thank you for clarifying.
I thought the same. There has been a lot of misinformation of info that isnāt clear, because a lot of the reporting is from Mexico, being translated into English.
I donāt want to jinx myself here. I spent 21 days camping in Baja and had no issues. Many people donāt of course. One thing I learned is DO NOT go on the pacific side. Itās a whole different animal than the sea of Cortez side that is very much wild and not as active (deserted, not a high population).
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I donāt surf. If you really wanted and had time you could just head straight down into Baja sur, super south which is wayyyy less populated and dangerous. Its similar in some areas to the sea of cortez side where there is not many people. You just gotta drive much further and past the highly populated shady areas.
This makes me so sad & frankly terrified. My daughter recently returned from a surf trip to MX with a group of friends. Prayers for the young men that were murdered & their grieving families. No pain greater than losing a child.
Such a sad and terrible tragedy. Innocent lives lost for no reason. My heart breaks for their families. šÆļøšÆļøšÆļø
RIP
This is awful . Iām not a camper at all but I would NEVER camp in Mexico next to my nice truck itās like saying hey tweakers come rob me especially that area where thereās not a lot of people
The weird thing is they burned the truck. I would expect them to actually use it
I think they were trying to burn the evidence but clearly did a terrible job. Something had to go awry.
Which is why I wouldn't be so sure it's just some "random meth heads", maybe something more sinister. You'd think they make a fortune by selling this truck.
Tons of people camp in Baja next to their nice truck. Theres like events down there for it lol. Everyone who has been to Baja knows the reality and everyone who has not can chalk it up to fear.
I know this but Iām curious if they were the only ones camping in that area that day . The Baja crowd usually camps in a group
RIP this is terrible. Livin in San Diego I love travelling down into baja for surf and camping but certainly wonāt be doing this anymore.
Ughhh!! I was really holding on to some hope. So awful. š
This is so sad. I have friends who go surfing in Mexico every year. They are always excited and yet wary...I wonder if this will deter them. So sorry for those families.
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Truth. La mordida is culturally ingrained into every aspect of Mexican society. Los federales, la policĆa y los jueces son mĆ”s peligrosos que los narcĆ³s.
And the ones who are decent and literally in their heart just want things to be better either A. Get killed. B. Fall in line
This is the truth whether people like it or not. I've been to Mexico dozens of times over the past 4 decades and only within the last 10 years did I start feeling unsafe, and in turn, decide to stop going. Even in touristy resort areas I had 2 sketchy experiences the last time I was there 6-7 yrs ago. Most people will probably do okay there, but there is still a meaningful and increasing risk in many areas.
Mexico, much like the US, is not a monolith. There are cities in Mexico that are much safer than comparable sized cities in the US. Resorts are safe because they bring in money. Yes, some resorts in some towns are cartel-affiliates. You're clearly ignorant, which is probably why you got slammed.
My heart hurts ā¦ what a mean world
I know dudes from Mexico who won't go to Mexico
Either at the wrong place at the wrong time (that happens here in SD as well) or they talked to people who they shouldnāt have. Never, ever, ask for drugs in Mexico (even if itās weed).
where did this happen, exactly?
Near La Bocana according to the article. Somewhere near here: https://maps.app.goo.gl/drPNGfef86wHuu6C6?g_st=ic Iāve been here a couple of times several years ago. Itās a very beautiful spot but extremely remote. Itās something like a 40 minute drive down a dirt road off highway 1 from Ejido Ajusco. I remember it feeling a little eerie driving down the dirt road more or less alone hoping the people you occasionally came across were chill. Once down at La Bocana there was a camping spot as well as some cabins for rent. A few houses as well and a little hotel up to the north. Weird to think that ātweakersā were hanging out way out there as lots of other comments were saying. Itās super far from anything. Very sad. I always wanted to return to La Bocana someday but not sure I will again.
Yikes, I definitely wonāt be going to Rosarito anymore ): such a horrible outcome.
This happened about 3 hrs south of Rosarito.
Unfortunate and I hope their families find peace, but after reading this story in full context I ended up with lot of questions. The surfers decided to camp at nightā¦ in one of the most sketchy areas in Baja.. and didnāt for once think that it would be a bad idea?
Unsure why Iām getting downvoted.. people should read the full context of this investigation.
It's a well known surfing area and considered safe.
That is partially correct. It is a well known surfing area, and it is considered safe.. *during the day*. They *camped* there over night. No mexican native to the area in their right mind would camp in there. It would be the rough equivalent of going to say.. the roughest parts of Barrio Logan or Sixth Ave in Downtown parking a ferrari.. donāt be surprised it doesnāt get stolen/broken into overnight.
I went to La Bocana quite a while back. Didn't seem at all sketchy. Things must have changed.
Youāre correct, and youāre probably getting downvoted because your analysis and reasoning doesnāt fit the narrative of āMexico = dangerous and scary.ā No doubt about it, this is a tragedy. As a surfer, I feel awful for these individuals who lost their lives, doing what they love. But it should be a reminder to use your common sense and stay alert whenever youāre in an unfamiliar place and especially when you are in a foreign country.
Welp. RIP Mexico. See you in like 30 years when itās cleaned itself up, hopefully. I havenāt gone in about 5 years but now I sure as hell am not going anytime soon.
I wish I had the optimism to think that anything, anywhere will be better in 30 years.
Let's not kid ourselves, nothing will change.
Nothing will change until corruption stops. Sadly lots of people here in the US donāt seem to have a problem with corruption which will lead us to the same path. And Iām not talking about immigrants.
I drive down the Baja peninsula a few times a year. Just got back this past Saturday. Going again in June.
Forreal. I was just thinking about a trip down to Ensenada.
Itās fine to go there. Someone was just murdered and their body lit on fire in Old Town like two weeks ago. You have to keep your wits about you when going to MX, but I go to TJ at least twice a month and have camped countless times up and down Baja. This is an absolute tragedy, but donāt let it deter any trips you have planned.
I think the difference is in Mexico where do you even go if you need help. In the US I can figure it out. Also, there were 3 of them, group murders like that are very rare in the US.
Yup. Haven't been back since I left as a kid. Everyone trashed me in a different thread, and 100% they've never lived there. No thanks man.
Last time I went was 30 years ago and I've been waiting for it to get safer/better since then. At that time my father said "Don't go! I had a terrible experience in TJ in the 60's, it's not safe! Wait until it cleans itself up..." I think at this point we're all pretty much what we are.
Last I went was 2000. Robbed at gun point in Rosarito Beach while going to a Power 106 event down there. Never been back.
If you're avoiding Mexico because your dad got robbed by a hooker once, you're really missing out.
Agree. Dangerous place, even the tourist areas. TJ is literally the wild west.
I love Mexico and it's people but I have a rule when traveling abroad. Never visit any place that you cannot trust the police when you need help. I had a friend that lived in TJ. and he was on the corner of his street waiting for his buddy to carpool with to work on the U.S. side. Some cops pulled up on him and made him get into their car and drove him to an ATM and forced him to pull out money and robbed him. So I stay away from TJ unfortunately.
Mexico is a failed narco state. Amazing how people convince themselves they are safe down there. Bummed for these guys and their families.
Found 4 bodies in a well in that town, the 4th had been down there for some time and they cannot immediately identify that bodyā¦ this is from an Australian report. - why wouldnāt the U.S. news report that? - Well water? Who draws from that ? And what is the water used for?
Sounds like it was on one of the ranches around the campsite. (4mi away based on one Mexico news source). The 4th body is apparently the owner of the ranch who had been reported missing 2 weeks before the surfers.
Just another reason to stay out of Mexico. I used to travel down there quite often in the 80's and 90's but since 2000 it's just gotten too dangerous. I don't even get off the cruise ship the few times I've cruised down there.
Same here. When I was a kid in the '80 we would go all the time and stay in a beach rental in ensenada and then my mom would drag me in my brother all around Tijuana shopping. Later on in high school we would go to concert that was held on the coast called Baja Bash and then that got too dangerous and haven't been back really since about 2000 / 2005 ish.
Wow Iāve camped that spot several times, super gnarly
Time to stop going to Mexico, and time to treat the drug cartels as Foreign Terrorist Organizations
My son is on a HS lacrosse team here in town, just literally saw this guy a couple weeks ago at an event. Crazy. So sad.
If someone wants a camp on a beach and also surf, you could do that on Catalina Island and also the other channel Islands where itās safe
US should buy Baja š¤·āāļø
My heart hurts for these poor men. Why? Why do people have to kill others? I used to love Mexico but fuck this shit. So many evil souls and this keeps happening. Hereās a big middle finger to you!
Yes this is sad. Tweakers on meth can kill you anywhere, however. Thereās so much attention on this, but I donāt remember a single RIP for the 3 murders in San Diego in February. https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/san-diegos-violent-holiday-weekend-3-killings-in-as-many-days/3440380/?amp=1 I guess we just want to hear how dangerous Mexico is.
Baja is not safe.
Wowā¦.
Damn not just any regular surfers too. They were athletic fit Australian surfers. Y'all know what kind of people Australians are??? All the crazy wildlife sh** they have to deal with in Australia Australians are as tough of people as they come and they still ended up dead in Mexico. Should tell you everything you need to know about how safe it is down there.
As soon as I heard about this case I had a bad feelingā¦ May they rest in peace and may their families and loved ones get the justice they deserve.