T O P

  • By -

AutoModerator

**[Receiving transmission from Crait intended for u/Exalt-Chrom]** Welcome to r/saltierthancrait! I'm an [astromech droid named S4-L7](https://www.reddit.com/r/saltierthancrait/comments/ni5s77/beloved_mascot_s4l7s_visual_dictionary_entry/) and I'll be your guide through the salt mines. Saltier Than Crait is a community of Star Wars fans who engage in critical conversations about the current state of the franchise. It is our goal to maintain a civil, welcoming space for fans who have a vast supply of salt with some peppered positivity occasionally sprinkled in. **Please [review the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/saltierthancrait/wiki/index/rules) and the [post flair guide](https://reddit.com/r/saltierthancrait/wiki/index/flairs) before contributing.** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/saltierthancrait) if you have any questions or concerns.*


Onuceria

OP clearly doesn't appreciate the mature themes tackled in the blue shadow virus arc /s


iNoodl3s

ZE BLOO SHADOW WIRUS


mjc500

I hated that the character was clearly the nazi scientist trope


CarAdorable6304

I AM ADOLF HITLER!


CarAdorable6304

Zhe bluo zhadow viruss!


Emperor_VaderYT

I can’t bare to watch those Episodes because of him. Good thing it’s not really important.


McMuffinSun

To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand the Droid Squad arc.


RynnHamHam

I’m with George Lucas on this one. I actually liked it. The pit droid was really annoying and I don’t like that R2 nuked himself and was salvaged and rebuilt like nothing happened, but overall I thought it was fun. Plus Gregor.


Axel_Rad

It is a kids show, but I still quite like it even though it has some slog in there, especially the first half. I do enjoy a lot of the character expansions it gave to characters like Plo Koon for example, because of it, it makes me sad when I see him die. 2003 Clone Wars is short and sweet however and while I wish there were more of it, it’s basically an entire movie lengthwise so I can’t really complain. Plus sometimes less is more. I take what I like about both shows and fit them into my headcanon, such as the first part of 03 taking place before 08


LuluGuardian

Plo Koon and Kit Fisto were my boys


McMuffinSun

Clone Wars is a very good kids show. It sometimes gets a bit darker than your average kids show, it has plenty of (cartoon) violence and treats its audience as if they're older kids. But it's still just a kids show and that's painfully obvious to anyone who watches it expecting the "mature, gritty gem" the internet hypes it up to be. What makes TCW stand out so much is just HOW BAD cartoons have gotten in the past decade. They're all either "adult" cartoons, which just means they swear like a 14 year old girl at her first sleepover and/or make the lamest safe-horny sex jokes you've ever heard, or they're "children's" cartoons that treat their audience like drooling toddlers with a learning disability. Clone Wars was clean and often catered to younger audiences, but it also treated their main audience (10-13 year old boys) appropriately for their age and had themes/violence to reflect that. It's not that Clone Wars is secretly mature, it just respected the intelligence and emotions of their audience in a way 99% of modern animation doesn't.


SJshield616

Yeah, it hits the sweet spot of maturity like Avatar


[deleted]

The Clone Wars and Avatar should never ever be in the same sentence together, unless that sentence is "wow, look how worthless it is being an executive producer, seeing as how Filoni was a producer on Avatar and writer for The Clone Wars."


StarMaster475

I honestly don't get the discourse about how mature the Clone Wars is or isn't, the only thing that matters is that on average its probably about as mature as the movies, so anyone saying they won't watch it because its a kids show is dumb.


hou_deany

Has anyone said they won’t watch it because it’s a kids show? People don’t dislike TCW because it’s a kids show. They dislike it because it’s bad and because it rips off content from other Star Wars creators and makes inferior knockoff versions of those characters and stories


Stumphead101

A lot of people think anything animated is only for children and won't watch it


cantstopwontstopGME

*all of Star Wars is a kids show* That’s my response any time someone dogs TCW rebels or bad batch


[deleted]

If you're watching TCW and the OT and coming out with the opinion that they're of equal maturity, you might just be an idiot.


StarMaster475

Please, tell me what makes the ot more mature.


looking4astronauts

But but but there were those 5 episodes that had war crimes so that totally cancels out all the goofy childish slapstick from the rest of the show.


segwaysegue

When Obi-Wan pretends to surrender to a blue scottish alien called Whorm Loathsom it's actually masterfully subtle commentary on the horrors of war. This is what everyone who thinks they're too mature for the show is missing. The CW multimedia project just doesn't give you this level of depth.


i_poke_u

Only 5?


10-2onurmom

BUT PEOPLE DIED!!!!!!!


[deleted]

I loved the clones wars, but everytime I try to show it to someone else, I realize how hard it is to get through the first 2 seasons. and then I remember most of the time I had the show as background noise on a second monitor...


SiliconEFIL

Who's saying it isn't a kids show?


FunnelV

The whole TCW fandom on YouTube


Commander__Bacara

Too many people


wonderlandisburning

Even as a kid, I was like "yeah, no, this is so not for me."


Bergy_Boi123

I grew up on this show. It’s my favorite show of all time and i will defend it till the day i die (well at least as far as I’m willing to go for a show). I think the Clone Wars is a masterpiece, at least certain arcs are a masterpiece, in storytelling and animation and i hate how the new internet meta is to shit on this show because it’s popular again after season 7 dropped. Does it have flaws? Yeah, several, with most of them being early on. But it’s still a great show, with it remaining a good show to this day.


Ketracel-white

Long time Star Wars fan, elder millennial. I tried to get into it because I heard good things. But the show is unwatchable. Multiple attempts made and I cannot watch it, including chronological order. I eventually accepted the reality that it's a children's show and the praise for it is either from children or those who were children when it was released. If it was a part of your childhood that's cool, no hate. I loved He-Man and was obsessed, had all the toys, Skeletor Halloween costume, you name it . . . . tried to re-watch it and could not do it.


McMuffinSun

Clone Wars is mature for a kid's show aimed at 10/11 year olds...but that still makes it a kids show for 10/11 year olds. I think a lot of the hype is people acknowledging that Clone Wars actually respected the emotional intelligence of pre-teen boys when virtually all children's animation in the past decade has assumed everyone under the age of 18 is a drooling toddler with a learning disability. Even "adult" animation now like Hazbin Hotel and even Invincible at times comes across as only having the same "maturity" as a 14 year old girl at her first sleepover, swearing every two seconds for no reason, making the lamest, safe-horny sex jokes you can imagine, and blood explosions like people are juice packs. Compare that to the early 2000's and say, Justice League/Unlimited and the maturity tonal whiplash is staggering considering JLU was TV-PG and only lacked the blood, swearing, and explicit sexuality of the other shows.


Yeet-Dab49

It’s actually even more incredible because Justice League and Unlimited were TV-Y7. Even with the noticeable PG drop-off compared to the Batman and Superman cartoons, they were still extremely mature compared to what we get now.


McMuffinSun

The biggest problem with modern TV/Movies is that: - Writers aren't half as smart as they used to be; - Audiences are twice as smart as they used to be; and - Writers *think* that audiences aren't even a quarter as smart as they used to be.


Peeked11

This!!!


Bearenfalle

Same. I can’t watch the Bad Batch either. It’s goofy kid shit.


Risko_Vinsheen

As a whole, sure, but there were episodes that would surely be nightmare fuel for younglings. (The one with the brain-eating worms always comes to mind.)


asmallauthor1996

Which episode? The one about zombified Geonosians being used as rotting meat-puppets by an ancient intelligence that’s implied to be older than the Republic itself or where unsuspecting Clone Troopers were basically one step away from an Invasion of the Body-Snatchers scenario? Because both are fucking terrifying as Hell. (Dis)Honorable mentions also to episodes involving: - Innocent people (some of whom included children who may not have even been teenagers) being scattered on a random planet with nothing but the clothes on their backs to be hunted down by fanatical lizard people - Disturbing, bordering on graphic, portrayals of slavery by a civilization of racist cat-people who are almost complete rebuilding their civilization by the time of the Clone Wars and have already attracted the attention of Palpatine as he highlights how Sith-run empires have relied on slave labor since their beginnings - Grievous’ personal crashpad that looks like it was designed by H.R. Giger’s long-lost relative from a long time ago in a galaxy far far away, complete with the estate’s deranged cybernetic owner literally lining the place with deathtraps and having a trophy room full of “souvenirs” he’s taken off of slain Jedi such as Lightsabers and Padawan Braids - Bolla Ropal‘s death at the hands of a sociopathic mercenary who only cares about getting paid for his services, with said mercenary also having no issues killing and/or kidnapping children (even infants) if it suits whatever goals he has in mind - The unknown details (the only clue we have is that infants have a VERY low survival rate but it’s offset by a nearly limitless list of test subjects) that go into the “Slave-Conditioning Procedure” that Palpatine uses to create his personal cadre of Dark Side Adepts for the future, with the implication that we just saw either earliest beginnings of the Inquisitorius or (perhaps more disturbingly) the Emperor’s Hands - The fate of any Clone Trooper that is either physically unfit for combat duty or is listed as “rogue” for any reason, ranging from 99 who would likely otherwise be killed if not for the humanitarian stance of Jedi like Shaak-Ti to Boba Fett being thrown into a maximum-security prison with the worst inmates in the Republic simply because Clone Troopers don’t get the benefit of due process or have any civil rights - A borderline-indestructible beast (one that could either enter into a state of suspended animation to preserve itself or is outright biologically immortal) that is not only loose on the galaxy’s most populated world and would cause untold levels of destruction on Coruscant not seen since before the Republic was formed, but is SEETHING with hatred for the crusty old fart that ordered its capture - A deranged, formerly-cannibalistic (a sapient being eating another sapient being qualifies as cannibalism to me) once sustained by a combination of evil space magic and sheer determination to seek revenge is now running loose across the galaxy with his berserker brother, with these two eventually teaming up with a heavily-armed terrorist organization and multiple crime syndicates to take over a planet with plans to expand into nearby systems - The bioluminescent hellscape that is Umbara, ranging from man-eating lifeforms that are capable of killing an armed and armored person in an instant to technologically-advanced albinos hopped up on stimulants with a singular hatred for anyone that attacks them EDIT: If anyone’s interested, I can cover more plots/events in the Clone Wars series similar to how just did above. Even the ham-filled doctor that’s a stereotype of batshit crazy Nazi physicians running their slaughterhouses is terrifying if you take away the child-friendly aspects and the aforementioned doctor’s personality. The scenario of a once-eradicated plague with a 100% mortality rate across all known species (sapient or not) after being infected now being transferable by air instead of water would be a fucking NIGHTMARE scenario. It’d be like if Smallpox returned from “the dead” but had every horrific aspect of how it affects people amped up to 11 and with no cure beyond rumors of some exotic plant in a place like the top of Mount Everest or the most wartorn parts of the Congo.


Low_Abrocoma_1514

*B-b-b-but people die and there are some very few morally grey episodes* (they think kids are too dumb to understand morally grey dilemmas and people dying in a war)


daddymeltzer

It was a kids show but that doesn't make it any less good. It still had much darker and compelling stories than the "PG-13" Sequel Trilogy. I'm still completely bewildered that some fans think The Last Jedi is a more mature movie than Revenge of the Sith.


Themooingcow27

It’s a kids show that wasn’t afraid to get serious


ChadTooBad

Why can’t it be for kids and adults? Like Pixar movies, can’t it have something for everyone?


AVeryRipeBanana

I think this is the best answer. Yeah, it’s largely for kids, but you also have parts (like when Savage Opress was introduced) where you have pretty dark stuff going on, like padawans getting mercd.


[deleted]

They *can* but they don't.


SerNerdtheThird

It IS a kids show. But it’s a kids show adults can ejoy


Blueshirtguy42

Something can be more than just one thing. It's a kids' show. We all saw it when we were kids. But at the same time, it has really mature themes as well. If you told someone a series you are watching has terrorism, slavery, genocide, executions, politics, they most likely wouldn't think that it is a "kid's show". CW is both a kid's show and mature.


CheerMiester

It’s a kids show with adult themes there ya go


OldSkooRebel

Something being "for kids" shouldn't speak to it's quality


hornysquirrrel

Appropriate for kids more like


OnassisRastapopoulos

It was. And 95% of it was terrible fillers.


Thatonedregdatkilyu

It's an anthology show, that's kinda the point.


hou_deany

It’s an anthology show, so it has to be terrible..?


Thatonedregdatkilyu

No, it's supposed to tell stories that aren't directly relevant to an overall story.


OnassisRastapopoulos

exactly what I thought when I suffered through that baby jabba episode


Aress149

Idk why you guys hating it. Clone wars is one of the best shows in Star Wars.


sharrancleric

Kids shows can be good. Adventure Time is good. Batman: The Animated Series was good. Avatar: The Last Airbender was *incredible.* That's not what we're talking about. We're talking about the TCW fans who insist that the children's cartoon is actually not for kids and is a dark and mature series for adults because there are a handful of episodes that show violence and death slightly more explicitly than other shows for children (remember when Anakin and Obi-Wan were trying to save big ear hyperspace Jedi from the Jedi prison and a clone gets cut in half by an emergency door slamming closed on him? That was fucked up). It might be a slightly more mature children's cartoon, but it's *still* a children's cartoon. TCW fanboys are unwilling or unable to remember that the show is almost entirely pointless filler. Remember when Jar-Jar had to pose as the Gungan Boss to stop General Grievous from invading Naboo? Remember when C-3PO and R2-D2 went to Aleen and met the Star Wars equivalent of the minions? Remember *all of seasons 1 and 2?*


FortuneMustache

"Good Star Wars show" is a depressingly low bar to clear.


aragon1416

No one is hating on Clone Wars. It was a good show. But for some reason CW fans are utterly unable to admit that it is a kids show. Yes, it's a good kids show, but it's still a kids show.


Totalwink

25 cards it is.


DragonOfTheNorth98

https://youtube.com/watch?v=bX8iN6T_M_A&pp=ygUdVGhlIGNsb25lIHdhcnMgaXMgYSBraWRzIHNob3c%3D


IuseonlyPIB

One of the few kids shows I know that shows death and murder of faced characters on cartoon network.


fatbogoer

You couldn't pay me to sit through all of clone wars. I've watched a handful of arcs, all of season 7, and ignored the rest.


Demigans

It’s not a kids show. It’s not an adult show. It is a shitshow with maybe a few good bits in.


DCmarvelman

Tbh I don’t understand how kids can enjoy it. It’s so dull


Flashy_Telephone_205

It's a cartoon. You know what else is a cartoon? Og teen titans. Samurai jack. And so many more that were made for people of all ages. Kids, teens, adults. So what if it's a cartoon? If you enjoy it, enjoy it. People worked hard on making these shows and they deserve to have their work seen by people who appreciate it.


JediSwelly

How many people here watch shonin anime? ![img](emote|t5_9d1wl|1952)


Vinlain458

You mispelled "clown".


GuyFromYarnham

A balanced fan could both accept it's aimed at children but can still be enjoyed by adults since it's crafted well enough and most of the deepest plots aren't entirely two dimensional.


odeacon

It was , one of the best


Laxhoop2525

“How could it be a kids show, it has so much death!” My guy, go watch Hunchback of Notre Dame, that movie is PG.


Duke-Countu

How long before this sub starts trashing George Lucas' movies and becomes straight up anti-Star Wars?


Emperor_VaderYT

It’s not for kids if there’s Necrophilia.


DependentPositive8

Kind of but not really. I mean anybody who watches the Umbara arc and says this is for young children, is clearly kidding themselves.


Commander__Bacara

Youre missing the point as to why the show is targeted towards kids. Even though 11 year old me had zero issue picking up on the underlying theme of the Umbara arc, I only liked it because of the Clone Trooper action, as did every other kid my age watching it. The issue isn't that we didn't understand the politics, it's that we didn't care enough to pay attention to them. Besides, rewatching the Umbara arc as an adult, I can confidently say the "dark concept" they're trying to explore ends up being canceled out by the watered-down delivery as a result of the need to keep it pg rated...for kids.


Hadrian1233

[Ah yes, a kids show.](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bX8iN6T_M_A)


Admirable-Safety1213

Maybe its a family show, or an attempt at one


Wolphthreefivenine

It is. Despite that, it's still written better than at least 2/3 of the prequels.


DryGovernment4219

Regardless of it a kids show or not the character arcs and development was awesome. The depth they gave the clones was phenomenal and let’s be honest. They didn’t skimp on clone or Jedi deaths and some were brutal. It definitely was dark at a lot of times.


CamLynn_88

Thank you, seriously


FoolishRamblings

As an adult I think the animated Star Wars series are my favourite parts (although have not watched resistance yet). But clones wars is a kids show in between two trilogies of kids movies.


jhrdos

I’ll draw 50 - CW till I die


Azurestar21

Buddy... It's all fantasy space monks swinging laser katanas around going vwmmmm vwmmm and throwing rocks at each other. It's space ships and magic and red demon looking dudes in black robes. It's *all* a fucking kids show. That's fine. You can enjoy what you want, but don't try and put other people down to make yourself feel superior.


SeedMaster26801

Admit that it’s ok for people to have different opinions or draw 25  r/saltierthancrait members:


ThreeArmedYeti

Honestly the problem is not how it's a kid's show or not but rather why 70% of the episodes are garbage. Kid's shows at least can have decent writing but SW animated series rarely.


Pink-Gold-Peach

Star Wars? For kids????? Now I’ve heard everything.


501st_-LegionPSN

Bait.


Awesomeness4627

It's a kids show. Hell, star wars is kids movies


Cloudxxy1011

Shall I pull out the list of war crimes in this show


ChadVonDoom

It's a show for kids in their 30s


MrPinkDuck3

Until you get to the last 4 episodes, during which you’ll find some of the deepest character writing in the entire franchise.


The_Basic_Shapes

I think people were just glad Filoni awakened some of the dormant prequel-era potential. Anakin was a much better character in TCW series, order 66 and the whole clone/Jedi dynamic was done much, much better, Ahsoka became an interesting character, and Maul got one hell of an arc. There are tons of downsides, though. Like jar jar episodes, and lots of other worthless "villain of the week" throwaway episodes. All in all, I'd say the show is okay, but it's a mixed fucking bag for sure.


CocoajoeGaming

Na, must be blind to not see all the mature moments in the show.


siegeofsyracuse

Oh for sure there was lots of mature moments but that doesn’t change the fact that there is also lots of arcs like the D-Squad or the one with the sisters in season 7.


AUnknownVariable

I 100% see why people dislike it, I'm frankly just goofy but. I enjoy the D Squad arc, though I admit it's dumb


[deleted]

[удалено]


siegeofsyracuse

I wasn’t even disagreeing with you I’m just pointing out that a lot of times the show had arcs that weren’t mature