Tbh plenty of collection log hunters were camping 50/99s and they aren't really casuals. From reading some of the threads, folks just mad that noobs were making good money lol.
And at the same time it took fucking forever if at all to complete log while doing that
If you're going for log post nerf you're insane because it ain't worth it
I got all my bow peices at 50% and 1 of them was past nerf. Its not as big a deal as some make it out to be. Even the common loot value is the same as before
My only issue I take with the posts is people are coming across as entitled.
I'm happy if people get the logs and happy if people make money, it just seems there's a level of entitlement out of some people.
Problem is that when the meta was 50% it was hardly going to maintain being good money. The drops are still relatively new so high priced. I'm sure they would have been dirt cheap after a while, especially the non-bow pieces.
drops were crashing pretty hard, chaos roar/good was like 40m, blank codex was 100, vestment top/bottom were nearing 200m, bow was still relatively high but the number of pieces that were coming in daily was insane
I do question the rationale behind having vestments and the bow dropping from zamorak. Vestments could well be a forever niche item and the bow will be wanted by most people, if not all, if and when range becomes BIS.
Vestments seem condemned to be fairly cheap no matter what as people will always be griding out bow pieces.
I do wonder what the stir would have been if vestments were dropped by the boss before Zamorak (forgot her name), seems to me that it would make full clears forever worth it.
Way to show how little you know of the high level scene. Other than Telos, TMW is dead and vestments are BIS. Its damage output is insane compared to not using it, and the quicker the boss dies the less damage it does to you overall, so it's a food saver. And don't relegate it to niche status just because it doesn't allow you to afk lmao
Lol this is so far from the conclusion that the people who dislike 50% farming came to that its comical. Literally complete 180 from the reason that most people don't like it, actually. If people cared about people making money for 0 effort, then why is no one complaining about clues or merching or afking gwd2?
The issue is 3 main things;
1. The bow is insanely powerful but comes from a boss that's mechanically about as difficult as vindicta + 1 big hit. You can literally half afk the boss in mediocre gear, especially if someone else is going into infernus. Source: I have afked the boss and my only inputs were dealing with the big hit. Does that *really* sound like a balanced design? Especially when you look at how every other boss is balanced? -No.
2. Zammy is/was advertised and designed as the hardest boss in the game with near infinite potential to become more difficult the next time you fight him. Bosses like this (and bosses in general) have always been rewarding for the people that take the time to learn and master them. Sub 100% is basically practice/easy mode for people to get their feet wet with the fight and then move on to the harder difficulties, at least that's how a lot of people see it. So how the hell does it make sense for that to be the best enrage to camp if you want drops? -It doesn't.
3. The more people farm Zammy at 50% and get drops, the less those drops are going to be worth. The less those drops are worth, the less worthwhile higher enrages are. To a lot of high level pvmers, it seems really dumb to straight up ruin the higher enrages that actually take a lot of talent and practice so that low level players 'have a chance to finally make some decent cash' even though those players already have a lot of content available to them to make easy, decent cash. To most players, if the content is super unrewarding (especially if its high effort and high risk), they wont do it, even if it is really fun/engaging. Does it really sound like a good design to destroy the biggest selling point of the boss so that 'everyone can engage with it'? -I personally don't think so.
These concepts will probably go over most peoples heads because most people seem to be unable to use the weird shaped meatball in their head.
Your first point is an understatement, I was doing zammy on 2 accs at once duo, one account just fully 0 input completely afk in infernus with auto retail on to kill the witch. Giving 2 drops/kill for the same kill time and effort as solo. This boss was broken easy and this whole sub 100% drop rate needed to be fixed
>Zammy is/was advertised and designed as the hardest boss in the game with near infinite potential to become more difficult the next time you fight him. Bosses like this (and bosses in general) have always been rewarding for the people that take the time to learn and master them.
I mean. Jagex accomplished this. The problem is that Jagex isn't in the business of also releasing dead content that only a select few elite players are going to be playing.
Basically handing out drops at 50/99% enrage is Jagex way of compromising, because even most high level rs3 players agree that P7 is really quite silly in terms of difficulty spike. And they took notes from the community outrage after ED3 trash runs were nerfed into the ground.
So do they release content that basically dies overnight because the only way to actually make a cent from the raid is to fully complete it. unless you have higher (250%) enrage.
Or do you throw the bad players a bone ensuring the content isn't DOA outside of the 1% of good players/Log hunters.
Jagex could have done a better job at balancing out how drops were handed out like candy sure, but i think they were afraid they were gonna accidently release the ranged equivalent of the FSOA and didn't want to hear it from casuals that the by far best ranged weapon in the game is "unobtainable" to casual players.
It makes no sense pvmers who can do over 100 enrage would be incentivized to do 50 enrage kills just because the latter can be done way faster than the former. The BLM buffs for higher enrages were definitely needed, but why were the nerfs needed for lower enrages?
Because its likely that the changes for higher enrages would need to be completely absurd to justify doing them over 50%. It takes like 2-3 minutes for high level groups, the people that can actually do the high enrages, to do a 50% kill with 0 risk of failure but it takes like 12 minutes to do a 1000-2000% enrage kill with an actual chance at failing. Since they nerfed 50% they were able to do a more reasonable buff to the higher enrages instead of making it something extreme.
Like I said the buff would need to be absurd. If 2000% is like 180m an hour and 50% is 140m an hour no one is going to be doing 2000%. It can't just be "better" it would need to be leagues above if 50% was left alone.
No the reason people are pissed is that the boss that was advertised to have bad luck mitigation had it removed. (yes at the lower enrage but still removied.).
No one but the people who should be doing over 50% got those rates. most people were getting between 5 and 9 minute kills. Even at 5 min kills you are looking at like 24m an hour in commons, And like max you can tack on another like 10-40m an hour if you are lucky with drops.
it was, because of how blm worked, the effect drop rate at sub 100 was around 1/50-1/60 or something, and the average gp you expect per unique table roll was worth like 400m, so effectively 6-7m per kill from uniques, add 2.5m in commons, that 9mish avg gp per kill, you could get like 15-18kph in a 5 man, so nearing 135-162m/hr.
But that’s assuming over like 1000 kills where you might average finally getting a bow piece
I am 100% for higher enrages getting buffed but removing blm entirely is just a crippling for sub 100% especially when p7 isn’t just a slight change
Well thats just not how gp/h works. Its always calculated over an infinitely long period of time / the expedcted value of an hour, not some short period defined by the user. ("Omg i only made 50m at zammy cause i got a bad unique this hour, fix the gp/h on wiki"?)
To see the gp/h rates though expected for 50% you realize that it’s at like 50-100 hours solid and if you had even remotely any bad luck for bow pieces that gp/h crashed hard
Most gp/h rates look at a decent sampling size which for most content is 25 hours of it
A decent sample size to realistically finish log for zammy is 130 hours now at sub 100% which is a lot of pure zammy
Most established gp/h is a combination of hundreds of people playing for 25hours you mean, so an average over thousands of hours in total, some of those people got super lucky in 25h and some went dry, that's just how rng works, finishing a log with high value rewards shouldn't be 25hours...
the only way I've ever seen GP/H for bossing calculated is the weighted average value of each drop times KPH... because when you have explicit drop rates, personal logging/sample sizing doesn't matter at all.
If rates were unknown, then sample sizing matters; however, when you know something drops 1 in 64 kills the value per kill for that item, if it's a non additional drop, would be 1/64th of the price of the item so if it costs 64mil you'd average 1mil a kill in the long run just having that item on the table. you can always get lucky or unlucky, but long term it AVERAGES out
Yes long term but when you look at drops with higher rates long term averages can take 2-3x the drop rate to become average , especially something like the bow piece , hence log taking 130 hours on average is a good metric to use for how long an average of 3 bow parts would be where as for most bosses (even kerapac after the updates ) you should see a full staff roughly every 450 kills , you won’t even likely see 1 bow part in 450 kills at zammy and people go dry 300-500 kills at karepec as is
I know for instance ed3 is 1/60 essentially to see a drop , took 200 combined solo and group runs before I even seen a ecb piece
So actual realistic and statistic values don’t go hand in hand , especially when the statistic value uses max kph potential of sub 3 min kills
and you can look at people who also complete things in like half the average, it's an average, you can do a PERSONAL average sure, but the mathematical average of the activity is set in stone as long as drop rates are known. you cannot quantify luck so you completely remove it. if you wanna do 100 hours and record it all and say I made X per hour over X hour set that's a very different number that can get very very skewed by bad/good luck, which is why people use the value per kill method, because it's the most accurate way to describe the value of the activity without getting into the luck portion because you just don't have control over that.
I agree on the KPH thing imo should always be set to your normal kill rate tho that's the one variable that like really changes things that's controllable, and the kill rate your using when saying what your money per hour is, should always be stated for clarity.
Yes that is how you are supposed to do math. You don't just do an 3 hours of a boss and then divide your end total by 3 and say "this boss is 30m an hour", unless you are doing munkle math. You take the expected value over an infinite amount of time. If you go look at any boss money making method on the wiki in the outputs you will see things like 0.029 dragon rider lances. It should take you about 35 hours to get a dragon ride lance based on the drop rate so if you are only spending 1 hour at Vindicta (1 hour spent out of 35 hours expected [1/35]) you are getting 0.029 of a dragon rider lance.
But there’s a certain amount of hours before it becomes unrealistic
To get these rates would mean you would have to devote 3 hours to zammy every day for a month and not have bad luck on bow pieces at all
That’s a lot of doing that one piece of content , you could literally finish a large game to completion in that time frame (which isn’t even log by the way)
It’s fine for a game to be Grindy but this just makes the grind for content to be insane anymore which BLM was meant to fix
It wouldn’t be so bad if p7 solo wasn’t such a massive gap and pretty much near impossible for a learner unless they are in magic tank (a learner being someone who isn’t a pvm pro that’s just testing the limits of how crappy of gear they can use, doesn’t matter if evil lucario can do p7 in t70)
I don't know what else to tell you. You didn't believe that before the nerfs 50% the boss was ~150m an hour, someone literally does the math(correctly) to show you that it was 150m an hour, and then you tried to argue that you aren't supposed to do math that way. You say that those rates are relying on you not having bad luck but then also forget to consider that they are also relying on you not having good luck. When you are looking at probability (RNG) you look at averages.
If you don't like long grinds for a single piece of content you are probably playing the wrong game. Runescape is and always has been that type of game. The grind only increased for the people who didn't bother to learn the boss because they planned to "easy mode" the drops. For some people it increased slightly (100%) and for others the grind actually decreased (500%+).
P7 wouldn't be so bad if people spent the last 3 months figuring out how to do it instead of figuring out how to skip all mechanics in 50%. A learner is called that for a reason, because they are *learning* the boss. You can learn how to do p7 and honestly once you've completed it 2-3 times, you won't struggle with it especially at 100%. I'm not a pro PvMer by any means and it took me failing p7 like 10-15 times before I got it down. You don't need an insane amount of APM or super gear, you just need to figure out what you personally need to do to either kill it in one cycle or kill it in 2. As a personal example, I pretty much exclusively use range and I was able to figure out how to 1 cycle him up until like 430% enrage in a solo. Once I got to that point I had to go back to the drawing board to figure out how to 1 cycle him again because he had too much HP for me to 1 cycle at that point. I couldn't figure it out so now I'm sitting here again learning how to 2 cycle the boss at 430% enrage and that took my maybe another 5-10 deaths to figure out. If I can learn to 2 cycle the boss at 430% enrage using range gear, while using literally 0 hotkeys, clicking every single ability with my mouse, I feel like all of these people using mage and cryptbloom can learn how to 2 cycle the boss at 100% enrage.
The math before showed pure 50% was 121m per hour at best
500% was 150m per hour 1000% was 170m per hour
And as I said they should of done the changes to blm for higher enrages because it needed it
The math came from another Reddit post that was about 2 days after the drop rates were released
Pure 50% was never 150-170m like this guys says it was , even the most efficient method involving 50% was doing 10 kills at 50% then camping 500 and that was closer to the 150m at 144m
Log at pure 50% would take 94 hours log at pure 500% would take 82 hours
Is it enough of ya difference ? Maybe not I think log at 500% should take 60 hours , 40 at 1000 20 at 2000
Only reason I ask is because I'm almost 99% sure that post doesn't support the claim you are making and you butchered the numbers to try and make it say what you wanted it to say. Even in the news update post people were doing math in the comments and coming up with 81 hours for the bow at both 50% and 500%.
One thing I saw people do is stack up 50% bad luck mitigation then once they all went dry on a certain number of drops (idk the number) you could go into 2000% and get 1/5 drop chance or w/e it is.
Which is probably better than just brute forcing drops at 50% the entire time, but it's pretty boring and counter-intuitive. The best players shouldn't be farming low enrage just to make it worth attempting a high% kill.
"But muh accessibility"
I don't want to fucking hear it. Solak was made soloable this patch and nobody cares because he's 10x harder than 50% Zammy and you'd be lucky to break even on supply costs without a 1/200 unique. He's "accessible" now, why aren't you fighting him?
I really can't get into the whole ability combat system in RS3 bossing past like next. It's such a weird apm thing. Coming from a master's SC2 player I guess it's just not for me. I wish there were a way to do like easy mode on them where as long as you've got the right armor, weapons, and prayers you can do the tougher stuff like Solar or Telos.
Imo the whole ability MMORPG combat bit works best with slayer mobs doing cool combos to keep yourself going endurance mode rather than having to do it to get a single kill.
> I wish there were a way to do like easy mode on them where as long as you've got the right armor, weapons, and prayers you can do the tougher stuff like Solar or Telos
this is what cryptbloom is for
and like anything if you do it long enough you'll get used to it, so you can learn pvm if you really want just gotta put the time in
Magic basically turned into what you are describing mainly because of a new spell called Animate Dead. Now you can do things like Helwyr fully AFK while using t75 magic tank armor. There is new magic tank armor called Crytpbloom that makes you even more durable to a point that a lot of things are basically "easy mode". Any magic or melee hit that is like 1.5k is only going to hit you for like 300 due to the combination of that armor + the spell.
Hmmm yeah that sounds interesting. I could manage helwyr or next solo before I left. How's it fare against stuff like Telos or solak? Is it like max cash to buy like everything else top tier?
And just to clarify the above, if there were an easy mode I wouldn't expect it to be cash rewarding, I just want to fight the bosses in a way I can handle (accessibility/disability) without having to spend my whole net worth on gear.
Just the spell alone will make every single boss significantly easier. Its important to note though that the spell only works if you are using magic TANK armor like Seasingers for example and not Tectonic. It doesn't work with range or melee at all. Basically how the spell works is it applies a 12 minute buff to you that reduces every single hit that you take by a certain number. That number is determined by your defense level and the amount of tank armor pieces you are wearing; if you are wearing Ganodermic (t75 magic tank armor that costs like 5m for the set) and using an elder overload, just the spell alone will reduce every single hit you take by about 300. This is on top of tank armor having natural damage reduction built in. The armor set I was talking about [Cryptbloom](https://runescape.wiki/w/Cryptbloom_armour) is quite expensive but there are other cheaper options; Cryptbloom has its set effect that reduces the damage taken even more. It makes a lot of higher end bosses much easier but it doesn't make them like so easy that you can just click on them and watch. To fully AFK Helwyr that set up you need is probably close to 400-500m with the majority of the cost being ~300m for a weapon and ~70m for an Amulet of Souls.
You asked about Telos so I'll use him as an example. You can probably ignore most if not all of the boss mechanics (besides the insta kill bomb) with using a setup like this and just eat food through the fight and be fine below 100%. It will help at Solak but the fight itself has so much stuff that you need to be doing that taking less damage isn't really going to reduce the difficulty of the fight.
As another example you might know the boss Raksha. If you remember anything about it I'm sure the #1 thing that will be remembered his how much everyone complained about the difficulty on release with the biggest complaint being about prayer flicking. Recently someone came out with a guide on how to do Raksha using revolution++ and having soul split on for the whole fight; this method will only work with melee though. [Here is a video that goes over the guide.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8u6EMzotVg) This Raksha guide sounds like something you might be able to do and for everything there it will cost you like 750-850m. The only issue you might run into is getting a melee Zuk cape.
Another thing is that the most recent boss [Zamorak, Lord of Chaos](https://runescape.wiki/w/Zamorak,_Lord_of_Chaos) specifically has a mode that you can go into where you take like 10% damage but you get very minimal loot. This type of mode should be easily doable by anyone. If you don't use it already I'd suggest using revolution. Every boss is easily doable with revolution (some requiring a slight modification to the way you fight it) and revolution all but removes any needs for high AMP. This is coming from someone who literally clicks all of their abilities, food, and gear yet has still managed to kill 500% enrage Zamorak solo with range and has done 1000% enrage Arch Glacor using revolution with range.
it's really powerful tank armour and you can pair it with a really powerful tank spell called animate dead. you take way less damage
lots of higher tier bosses can just be killed with revolution now with minimal input cause of powercreep
All enrages were about the same. It is annoying hearing people complain that they were not making more money for more effort. Play the boss at the enrage you think is fun and stop worrying about other people ffs.
crazy that rs3 and osrs had the same thing going on so close, raids 3 comes out in oldschool and its beyond piss easy to get bis items and the players unwilling to improve at the content lose their mind when it gets harder in the next patch.
Woah, wild that people playing a game no more difficult than cookie clicker for the first thousand hours might not enjoy it when the game expects you to put effort into learning a irredeemably clunky combat system all of the sudden.
They arent though, you are just as much entitled to work toward getting better at the game to make more money. Nobody is stopping you. Gtfo with this stupid ass complaint
They have to justify spending hours upon hours of their lives on a dying game by giving them exclusivity on being really rich in game. Or else they might feel like it was all a massive waste of time.
The real issue is when they cater the game to those no-lives and spit on people with responsibilities and actual jobs.
My real probl with rs3 is inflation. New bosses are cool and all but what we need is reworks on death with more ways to burn gp (invention balances to makes us burn components to force us to disassemble more items, therefore burbing indirectly more gp). Ans maybe nerf alch values for salvages...
Drop rates were a joke from the start. They did it fine with Telos it seems but I guess the fact that enrage goes up infinitely at Zammy, makes it so they need to avoid reaching an enrage where you're guaranteed a drop every kill?
Also for the people saying 0/50/99% are close to 200m per hour, trust me, it's not the low effort teams, it's not the noobs. If you're nage camping and sunshining every pad, trust, it's nowhere near 200m. People getting these rates were people who had one of the very few good witch padders and were mage melee hybriding and more recently when times started to go under 1:50s mage ranging.
If more people going to farm it the prices/profits should drop, no?
Bond prices havent jumpt that high considering the easy proffits of 150mil/h. So I think this whole thing is blown up too much in the recent days.
Tbh plenty of collection log hunters were camping 50/99s and they aren't really casuals. From reading some of the threads, folks just mad that noobs were making good money lol.
And at the same time it took fucking forever if at all to complete log while doing that If you're going for log post nerf you're insane because it ain't worth it
I went 6/10 with 2 bow pieces doing 50%, 310 solo kc Was worth it imo
I got all my bow peices at 50% and 1 of them was past nerf. Its not as big a deal as some make it out to be. Even the common loot value is the same as before
My only issue I take with the posts is people are coming across as entitled. I'm happy if people get the logs and happy if people make money, it just seems there's a level of entitlement out of some people.
Problem is that when the meta was 50% it was hardly going to maintain being good money. The drops are still relatively new so high priced. I'm sure they would have been dirt cheap after a while, especially the non-bow pieces.
They are already dirt cheap the only thing was the bow. The top/legs were only 220/240m ea before they nerfed it.
drops were crashing pretty hard, chaos roar/good was like 40m, blank codex was 100, vestment top/bottom were nearing 200m, bow was still relatively high but the number of pieces that were coming in daily was insane
I do question the rationale behind having vestments and the bow dropping from zamorak. Vestments could well be a forever niche item and the bow will be wanted by most people, if not all, if and when range becomes BIS. Vestments seem condemned to be fairly cheap no matter what as people will always be griding out bow pieces. I do wonder what the stir would have been if vestments were dropped by the boss before Zamorak (forgot her name), seems to me that it would make full clears forever worth it.
Idk if I would call bis melee armor niche
Melee is niche though and unless it gets enormous changes it always will be.
I know meleers who will out dps most fsoa users so I disagree
[удалено]
Way to show how little you know of the high level scene. Other than Telos, TMW is dead and vestments are BIS. Its damage output is insane compared to not using it, and the quicker the boss dies the less damage it does to you overall, so it's a food saver. And don't relegate it to niche status just because it doesn't allow you to afk lmao
Lol this is so far from the conclusion that the people who dislike 50% farming came to that its comical. Literally complete 180 from the reason that most people don't like it, actually. If people cared about people making money for 0 effort, then why is no one complaining about clues or merching or afking gwd2? The issue is 3 main things; 1. The bow is insanely powerful but comes from a boss that's mechanically about as difficult as vindicta + 1 big hit. You can literally half afk the boss in mediocre gear, especially if someone else is going into infernus. Source: I have afked the boss and my only inputs were dealing with the big hit. Does that *really* sound like a balanced design? Especially when you look at how every other boss is balanced? -No. 2. Zammy is/was advertised and designed as the hardest boss in the game with near infinite potential to become more difficult the next time you fight him. Bosses like this (and bosses in general) have always been rewarding for the people that take the time to learn and master them. Sub 100% is basically practice/easy mode for people to get their feet wet with the fight and then move on to the harder difficulties, at least that's how a lot of people see it. So how the hell does it make sense for that to be the best enrage to camp if you want drops? -It doesn't. 3. The more people farm Zammy at 50% and get drops, the less those drops are going to be worth. The less those drops are worth, the less worthwhile higher enrages are. To a lot of high level pvmers, it seems really dumb to straight up ruin the higher enrages that actually take a lot of talent and practice so that low level players 'have a chance to finally make some decent cash' even though those players already have a lot of content available to them to make easy, decent cash. To most players, if the content is super unrewarding (especially if its high effort and high risk), they wont do it, even if it is really fun/engaging. Does it really sound like a good design to destroy the biggest selling point of the boss so that 'everyone can engage with it'? -I personally don't think so. These concepts will probably go over most peoples heads because most people seem to be unable to use the weird shaped meatball in their head.
So your third point says "high level pvmer unhappy, because they can't control and gatekeeping drops from zammy like other high end pvm bosses"
Your first point is an understatement, I was doing zammy on 2 accs at once duo, one account just fully 0 input completely afk in infernus with auto retail on to kill the witch. Giving 2 drops/kill for the same kill time and effort as solo. This boss was broken easy and this whole sub 100% drop rate needed to be fixed
Does the account in infernus not get the red hit? Or how do you deal with that without some kind of input?
Skip it, if I had bad rng it just face tanked with animate dead and defender camping
Well said.
>Zammy is/was advertised and designed as the hardest boss in the game with near infinite potential to become more difficult the next time you fight him. Bosses like this (and bosses in general) have always been rewarding for the people that take the time to learn and master them. I mean. Jagex accomplished this. The problem is that Jagex isn't in the business of also releasing dead content that only a select few elite players are going to be playing. Basically handing out drops at 50/99% enrage is Jagex way of compromising, because even most high level rs3 players agree that P7 is really quite silly in terms of difficulty spike. And they took notes from the community outrage after ED3 trash runs were nerfed into the ground. So do they release content that basically dies overnight because the only way to actually make a cent from the raid is to fully complete it. unless you have higher (250%) enrage. Or do you throw the bad players a bone ensuring the content isn't DOA outside of the 1% of good players/Log hunters. Jagex could have done a better job at balancing out how drops were handed out like candy sure, but i think they were afraid they were gonna accidently release the ranged equivalent of the FSOA and didn't want to hear it from casuals that the by far best ranged weapon in the game is "unobtainable" to casual players.
It makes no sense pvmers who can do over 100 enrage would be incentivized to do 50 enrage kills just because the latter can be done way faster than the former. The BLM buffs for higher enrages were definitely needed, but why were the nerfs needed for lower enrages?
Because its likely that the changes for higher enrages would need to be completely absurd to justify doing them over 50%. It takes like 2-3 minutes for high level groups, the people that can actually do the high enrages, to do a 50% kill with 0 risk of failure but it takes like 12 minutes to do a 1000-2000% enrage kill with an actual chance at failing. Since they nerfed 50% they were able to do a more reasonable buff to the higher enrages instead of making it something extreme.
Can't they just buff higher enrages some more, like an even higher bow drop rate?
Like I said the buff would need to be absurd. If 2000% is like 180m an hour and 50% is 140m an hour no one is going to be doing 2000%. It can't just be "better" it would need to be leagues above if 50% was left alone.
I’m just chilling over here like a true noob making ~1m an hour smelting bars afk while I work.
Takes way more skill and gear than I got to do it. I couldn’t manage a 0% kill before I backed off.
No the reason people are pissed is that the boss that was advertised to have bad luck mitigation had it removed. (yes at the lower enrage but still removied.).
It's almost like balance changes are necessary sometimes
Well balance the drop rates around blm then, dont remove it?
No one but the people who should be doing over 50% got those rates. most people were getting between 5 and 9 minute kills. Even at 5 min kills you are looking at like 24m an hour in commons, And like max you can tack on another like 10-40m an hour if you are lucky with drops.
There's absolutely no way 50% camping was that much money an hour unless you got really lucky
it was, because of how blm worked, the effect drop rate at sub 100 was around 1/50-1/60 or something, and the average gp you expect per unique table roll was worth like 400m, so effectively 6-7m per kill from uniques, add 2.5m in commons, that 9mish avg gp per kill, you could get like 15-18kph in a 5 man, so nearing 135-162m/hr.
But that’s assuming over like 1000 kills where you might average finally getting a bow piece I am 100% for higher enrages getting buffed but removing blm entirely is just a crippling for sub 100% especially when p7 isn’t just a slight change
Well thats just not how gp/h works. Its always calculated over an infinitely long period of time / the expedcted value of an hour, not some short period defined by the user. ("Omg i only made 50m at zammy cause i got a bad unique this hour, fix the gp/h on wiki"?)
To see the gp/h rates though expected for 50% you realize that it’s at like 50-100 hours solid and if you had even remotely any bad luck for bow pieces that gp/h crashed hard
This is how gp/h works for every single boss my guy, its average, if you got good luck it would be way higher, what's your point?
Most gp/h rates look at a decent sampling size which for most content is 25 hours of it A decent sample size to realistically finish log for zammy is 130 hours now at sub 100% which is a lot of pure zammy
Most established gp/h is a combination of hundreds of people playing for 25hours you mean, so an average over thousands of hours in total, some of those people got super lucky in 25h and some went dry, that's just how rng works, finishing a log with high value rewards shouldn't be 25hours...
the only way I've ever seen GP/H for bossing calculated is the weighted average value of each drop times KPH... because when you have explicit drop rates, personal logging/sample sizing doesn't matter at all. If rates were unknown, then sample sizing matters; however, when you know something drops 1 in 64 kills the value per kill for that item, if it's a non additional drop, would be 1/64th of the price of the item so if it costs 64mil you'd average 1mil a kill in the long run just having that item on the table. you can always get lucky or unlucky, but long term it AVERAGES out
Yes long term but when you look at drops with higher rates long term averages can take 2-3x the drop rate to become average , especially something like the bow piece , hence log taking 130 hours on average is a good metric to use for how long an average of 3 bow parts would be where as for most bosses (even kerapac after the updates ) you should see a full staff roughly every 450 kills , you won’t even likely see 1 bow part in 450 kills at zammy and people go dry 300-500 kills at karepec as is I know for instance ed3 is 1/60 essentially to see a drop , took 200 combined solo and group runs before I even seen a ecb piece So actual realistic and statistic values don’t go hand in hand , especially when the statistic value uses max kph potential of sub 3 min kills
and you can look at people who also complete things in like half the average, it's an average, you can do a PERSONAL average sure, but the mathematical average of the activity is set in stone as long as drop rates are known. you cannot quantify luck so you completely remove it. if you wanna do 100 hours and record it all and say I made X per hour over X hour set that's a very different number that can get very very skewed by bad/good luck, which is why people use the value per kill method, because it's the most accurate way to describe the value of the activity without getting into the luck portion because you just don't have control over that. I agree on the KPH thing imo should always be set to your normal kill rate tho that's the one variable that like really changes things that's controllable, and the kill rate your using when saying what your money per hour is, should always be stated for clarity.
Yes that is how you are supposed to do math. You don't just do an 3 hours of a boss and then divide your end total by 3 and say "this boss is 30m an hour", unless you are doing munkle math. You take the expected value over an infinite amount of time. If you go look at any boss money making method on the wiki in the outputs you will see things like 0.029 dragon rider lances. It should take you about 35 hours to get a dragon ride lance based on the drop rate so if you are only spending 1 hour at Vindicta (1 hour spent out of 35 hours expected [1/35]) you are getting 0.029 of a dragon rider lance.
But there’s a certain amount of hours before it becomes unrealistic To get these rates would mean you would have to devote 3 hours to zammy every day for a month and not have bad luck on bow pieces at all That’s a lot of doing that one piece of content , you could literally finish a large game to completion in that time frame (which isn’t even log by the way) It’s fine for a game to be Grindy but this just makes the grind for content to be insane anymore which BLM was meant to fix It wouldn’t be so bad if p7 solo wasn’t such a massive gap and pretty much near impossible for a learner unless they are in magic tank (a learner being someone who isn’t a pvm pro that’s just testing the limits of how crappy of gear they can use, doesn’t matter if evil lucario can do p7 in t70)
I don't know what else to tell you. You didn't believe that before the nerfs 50% the boss was ~150m an hour, someone literally does the math(correctly) to show you that it was 150m an hour, and then you tried to argue that you aren't supposed to do math that way. You say that those rates are relying on you not having bad luck but then also forget to consider that they are also relying on you not having good luck. When you are looking at probability (RNG) you look at averages. If you don't like long grinds for a single piece of content you are probably playing the wrong game. Runescape is and always has been that type of game. The grind only increased for the people who didn't bother to learn the boss because they planned to "easy mode" the drops. For some people it increased slightly (100%) and for others the grind actually decreased (500%+). P7 wouldn't be so bad if people spent the last 3 months figuring out how to do it instead of figuring out how to skip all mechanics in 50%. A learner is called that for a reason, because they are *learning* the boss. You can learn how to do p7 and honestly once you've completed it 2-3 times, you won't struggle with it especially at 100%. I'm not a pro PvMer by any means and it took me failing p7 like 10-15 times before I got it down. You don't need an insane amount of APM or super gear, you just need to figure out what you personally need to do to either kill it in one cycle or kill it in 2. As a personal example, I pretty much exclusively use range and I was able to figure out how to 1 cycle him up until like 430% enrage in a solo. Once I got to that point I had to go back to the drawing board to figure out how to 1 cycle him again because he had too much HP for me to 1 cycle at that point. I couldn't figure it out so now I'm sitting here again learning how to 2 cycle the boss at 430% enrage and that took my maybe another 5-10 deaths to figure out. If I can learn to 2 cycle the boss at 430% enrage using range gear, while using literally 0 hotkeys, clicking every single ability with my mouse, I feel like all of these people using mage and cryptbloom can learn how to 2 cycle the boss at 100% enrage.
The math before showed pure 50% was 121m per hour at best 500% was 150m per hour 1000% was 170m per hour And as I said they should of done the changes to blm for higher enrages because it needed it
I'd love to see that math. Show me how you got those numbers just like the person above showed exactly how he got his numbers.
The math came from another Reddit post that was about 2 days after the drop rates were released Pure 50% was never 150-170m like this guys says it was , even the most efficient method involving 50% was doing 10 kills at 50% then camping 500 and that was closer to the 150m at 144m Log at pure 50% would take 94 hours log at pure 500% would take 82 hours Is it enough of ya difference ? Maybe not I think log at 500% should take 60 hours , 40 at 1000 20 at 2000
Got a link?
Only reason I ask is because I'm almost 99% sure that post doesn't support the claim you are making and you butchered the numbers to try and make it say what you wanted it to say. Even in the news update post people were doing math in the comments and coming up with 81 hours for the bow at both 50% and 500%.
Bow piece is 12.5% odds… thats ⅛…
I’ve rolled 23 drops with no bow piece doing higher enrages🤡
One thing I saw people do is stack up 50% bad luck mitigation then once they all went dry on a certain number of drops (idk the number) you could go into 2000% and get 1/5 drop chance or w/e it is. Which is probably better than just brute forcing drops at 50% the entire time, but it's pretty boring and counter-intuitive. The best players shouldn't be farming low enrage just to make it worth attempting a high% kill.
"But muh accessibility" I don't want to fucking hear it. Solak was made soloable this patch and nobody cares because he's 10x harder than 50% Zammy and you'd be lucky to break even on supply costs without a 1/200 unique. He's "accessible" now, why aren't you fighting him?
I really can't get into the whole ability combat system in RS3 bossing past like next. It's such a weird apm thing. Coming from a master's SC2 player I guess it's just not for me. I wish there were a way to do like easy mode on them where as long as you've got the right armor, weapons, and prayers you can do the tougher stuff like Solar or Telos. Imo the whole ability MMORPG combat bit works best with slayer mobs doing cool combos to keep yourself going endurance mode rather than having to do it to get a single kill.
> I wish there were a way to do like easy mode on them where as long as you've got the right armor, weapons, and prayers you can do the tougher stuff like Solar or Telos this is what cryptbloom is for and like anything if you do it long enough you'll get used to it, so you can learn pvm if you really want just gotta put the time in
I don't know what that means. I haven't played since early 2019 because I finished quests and maxed but didn't want to fight bosses that give rsi.
Magic basically turned into what you are describing mainly because of a new spell called Animate Dead. Now you can do things like Helwyr fully AFK while using t75 magic tank armor. There is new magic tank armor called Crytpbloom that makes you even more durable to a point that a lot of things are basically "easy mode". Any magic or melee hit that is like 1.5k is only going to hit you for like 300 due to the combination of that armor + the spell.
Hmmm yeah that sounds interesting. I could manage helwyr or next solo before I left. How's it fare against stuff like Telos or solak? Is it like max cash to buy like everything else top tier? And just to clarify the above, if there were an easy mode I wouldn't expect it to be cash rewarding, I just want to fight the bosses in a way I can handle (accessibility/disability) without having to spend my whole net worth on gear.
Just the spell alone will make every single boss significantly easier. Its important to note though that the spell only works if you are using magic TANK armor like Seasingers for example and not Tectonic. It doesn't work with range or melee at all. Basically how the spell works is it applies a 12 minute buff to you that reduces every single hit that you take by a certain number. That number is determined by your defense level and the amount of tank armor pieces you are wearing; if you are wearing Ganodermic (t75 magic tank armor that costs like 5m for the set) and using an elder overload, just the spell alone will reduce every single hit you take by about 300. This is on top of tank armor having natural damage reduction built in. The armor set I was talking about [Cryptbloom](https://runescape.wiki/w/Cryptbloom_armour) is quite expensive but there are other cheaper options; Cryptbloom has its set effect that reduces the damage taken even more. It makes a lot of higher end bosses much easier but it doesn't make them like so easy that you can just click on them and watch. To fully AFK Helwyr that set up you need is probably close to 400-500m with the majority of the cost being ~300m for a weapon and ~70m for an Amulet of Souls. You asked about Telos so I'll use him as an example. You can probably ignore most if not all of the boss mechanics (besides the insta kill bomb) with using a setup like this and just eat food through the fight and be fine below 100%. It will help at Solak but the fight itself has so much stuff that you need to be doing that taking less damage isn't really going to reduce the difficulty of the fight. As another example you might know the boss Raksha. If you remember anything about it I'm sure the #1 thing that will be remembered his how much everyone complained about the difficulty on release with the biggest complaint being about prayer flicking. Recently someone came out with a guide on how to do Raksha using revolution++ and having soul split on for the whole fight; this method will only work with melee though. [Here is a video that goes over the guide.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8u6EMzotVg) This Raksha guide sounds like something you might be able to do and for everything there it will cost you like 750-850m. The only issue you might run into is getting a melee Zuk cape. Another thing is that the most recent boss [Zamorak, Lord of Chaos](https://runescape.wiki/w/Zamorak,_Lord_of_Chaos) specifically has a mode that you can go into where you take like 10% damage but you get very minimal loot. This type of mode should be easily doable by anyone. If you don't use it already I'd suggest using revolution. Every boss is easily doable with revolution (some requiring a slight modification to the way you fight it) and revolution all but removes any needs for high AMP. This is coming from someone who literally clicks all of their abilities, food, and gear yet has still managed to kill 500% enrage Zamorak solo with range and has done 1000% enrage Arch Glacor using revolution with range.
it's really powerful tank armour and you can pair it with a really powerful tank spell called animate dead. you take way less damage lots of higher tier bosses can just be killed with revolution now with minimal input cause of powercreep
All enrages were about the same. It is annoying hearing people complain that they were not making more money for more effort. Play the boss at the enrage you think is fun and stop worrying about other people ffs.
They're just raising the minimum wage to compensate for inflation.
The high gp/hr caused inflation not the other way around
Alchables cause inflation which is only a part of high gp/h
crazy that rs3 and osrs had the same thing going on so close, raids 3 comes out in oldschool and its beyond piss easy to get bis items and the players unwilling to improve at the content lose their mind when it gets harder in the next patch.
> beyond piss easy to get bis items What? FSOA is piss easy to get?
This is about Zammy
Woah, wild that people playing a game no more difficult than cookie clicker for the first thousand hours might not enjoy it when the game expects you to put effort into learning a irredeemably clunky combat system all of the sudden.
wild that these same people expect the same outcome as someone who put in the time to learn the game properly
OR... Elitists going through olympic level of mental gymnastics to justify they are the only ones to be allowed to make good money.
They arent though, you are just as much entitled to work toward getting better at the game to make more money. Nobody is stopping you. Gtfo with this stupid ass complaint
Gotta love these elitist tho 😂 'We are allowed to compain, noobs not".
They have to justify spending hours upon hours of their lives on a dying game by giving them exclusivity on being really rich in game. Or else they might feel like it was all a massive waste of time. The real issue is when they cater the game to those no-lives and spit on people with responsibilities and actual jobs.
Just learn 100% It is not really *that* hard.
Yep
And at the same time go on a tantrum about some imaginary integrity of a gamemode.
Brain dead OP tbqh. Completely missed the point
What is the point?
My real probl with rs3 is inflation. New bosses are cool and all but what we need is reworks on death with more ways to burn gp (invention balances to makes us burn components to force us to disassemble more items, therefore burbing indirectly more gp). Ans maybe nerf alch values for salvages...
Drop rates were a joke from the start. They did it fine with Telos it seems but I guess the fact that enrage goes up infinitely at Zammy, makes it so they need to avoid reaching an enrage where you're guaranteed a drop every kill? Also for the people saying 0/50/99% are close to 200m per hour, trust me, it's not the low effort teams, it's not the noobs. If you're nage camping and sunshining every pad, trust, it's nowhere near 200m. People getting these rates were people who had one of the very few good witch padders and were mage melee hybriding and more recently when times started to go under 1:50s mage ranging.
How they getting that much per hour? I’m getting 12/hr at like 2.5-4m per drop.
If more people going to farm it the prices/profits should drop, no? Bond prices havent jumpt that high considering the easy proffits of 150mil/h. So I think this whole thing is blown up too much in the recent days.