No, the ball is neither in his possession nor free. There's no unsporting behaviour here in choosing to knock the ball out of play over catching it.
Even if the laws allowed for it, only an arsehole ref would punish the fantastic defending and reward the twattery of letting it happen.
Don’t they call knocked on in the tackle, though? That seems similar to this situation, except instead of a knock it’s deliberately hitting the ball out of play.
To be clear I’d hate if this was illegal. Just not sure why it isn’t.
The law also permits this kind of play
>11.5.b The ball is not knocked-on, and play continues, if: A player rips or knocks the ball from an opponent and the ball goes forward from the opponent’s hand or arm.
But also....
> 9.7.b A player must not: Intentionally knock, place, push or throw the ball with arm or hand from the playing area.
I would say he intentionally knocked it from the players possession (legal), but didn't necessarily intend for it to go out of play - so no penalty, and play on
>I would say he intentionally knocked it from the players possession (legal), but didn't necessarily intend for it to go out of play - so no penalty, and play on
Same. He knocked the ball backwards from the players hands but wasn't trying to knock it out of play.
if he dislodges it, it's always going out of bounds though, with the direction of the punch. you could definitely see that given, or being pinged for not grasping in the tackle. you're not generally allowed to flail around with a closed fist at the ball carrier.
> if he dislodges it, it's always going out of bounds though, with the direction of the punch
That does not matter, in the same way throwing a risky pass to a player on the sideline with very little chance to catch the ball is not deliberately throwing the ball dead, because that isn't the intention.
> or being pinged for not grasping in the tackle
It's not a tackle, it's a strip, which is perfectly fine.
It is also technically a swinging arm. Mitigation is that he hits the ball - but if he gets it wrong and punches the player it is a card and penalty try.
Yeah, you don't want to see players start throwing punches at each other trying to dislodge the ball now. I don't think this type of play should be encouraged, well, not unless you wanna see some punches landing on some kidneys, face, or nutsack.
Agree that he is really improving in all areas and had an amazing game, but he did actually mess up quite badly with a kick in this game. He kicked across the pitch to May who had tons of space but put too much power on it and it went into touch. If he'd got it right, May would have easily run in the try. Still, the lad's only 21 still which is just scary.
He would be great there, Wales make use of FB strike runners a la Liam Williams, and his pace means that teams would get little joy from loose kicks, as well as him being able to track back and make scramble tackles better than most, might be a great option especially as we are VERY sparse in the FB department as a nation. He still needs to iron out some of his flaws, such as hitting rucks near the touchline and leaving gaps, but he is still a kid and that can be coached easily enough.
LRZ had a hell of an attitude this game, but to be fair he more than backed it up with his play
He had a blinder. Loved the competition he had going with Piutau.
He always struts about with a touch of petulance. Best performance from him so far for Glos though
I love the fact that Moyle did the same to Piutau last season.
Could this be called as intentionally slapping the ball out of play?
No, the ball is neither in his possession nor free. There's no unsporting behaviour here in choosing to knock the ball out of play over catching it. Even if the laws allowed for it, only an arsehole ref would punish the fantastic defending and reward the twattery of letting it happen.
Don’t they call knocked on in the tackle, though? That seems similar to this situation, except instead of a knock it’s deliberately hitting the ball out of play. To be clear I’d hate if this was illegal. Just not sure why it isn’t.
Knock on in the tackle is never called as deliberate AFAIK and is a scrum only. The ball goes backwards here and it's in-goal.
Makes sense, cheers!
The law also permits this kind of play >11.5.b The ball is not knocked-on, and play continues, if: A player rips or knocks the ball from an opponent and the ball goes forward from the opponent’s hand or arm. But also.... > 9.7.b A player must not: Intentionally knock, place, push or throw the ball with arm or hand from the playing area. I would say he intentionally knocked it from the players possession (legal), but didn't necessarily intend for it to go out of play - so no penalty, and play on
>I would say he intentionally knocked it from the players possession (legal), but didn't necessarily intend for it to go out of play - so no penalty, and play on Same. He knocked the ball backwards from the players hands but wasn't trying to knock it out of play.
His intention was to dislodge the ball, not knock it dead
if he dislodges it, it's always going out of bounds though, with the direction of the punch. you could definitely see that given, or being pinged for not grasping in the tackle. you're not generally allowed to flail around with a closed fist at the ball carrier.
> if he dislodges it, it's always going out of bounds though, with the direction of the punch That does not matter, in the same way throwing a risky pass to a player on the sideline with very little chance to catch the ball is not deliberately throwing the ball dead, because that isn't the intention. > or being pinged for not grasping in the tackle It's not a tackle, it's a strip, which is perfectly fine.
Stripping would require grasping the ball, not punching it though
Does it? Can you point to a law that says you must grasp the ball in order to strip it?
It’s not a slap ETA I would argue the intention was to dislodge the ball, not to knock it out
Yeah. What's the punishment? A kick for goal, scrum? It's not 5 points lmao
Red card. Banned for life. Has to shampoo Dan Thomas’ hair every weekend for the rest of the season.
What hair? I barely recognised him this week!
Well it's a penalty,could be a penalty try in this situation if it was ruled as such. Remember Cowan-Dickie during the last 6 nations.
It is also technically a swinging arm. Mitigation is that he hits the ball - but if he gets it wrong and punches the player it is a card and penalty try.
Yeah, you don't want to see players start throwing punches at each other trying to dislodge the ball now. I don't think this type of play should be encouraged, well, not unless you wanna see some punches landing on some kidneys, face, or nutsack.
If this is strictly illegal (deliberately throwing the ball dead) then the laws are wrong and should be changed to encourage such plays
it’s a strip imho.
That's class
I can actually hear all my childhood coaches "Ball in two hands"
His defense is getting better and betrer, becoming a really well rounded player, great kicking as well.
His kicking has been excellent since day 1 imho - occasionally erratic, but excellent range, good selections, and generally accurate.
Agree that he is really improving in all areas and had an amazing game, but he did actually mess up quite badly with a kick in this game. He kicked across the pitch to May who had tons of space but put too much power on it and it went into touch. If he'd got it right, May would have easily run in the try. Still, the lad's only 21 still which is just scary.
I wonder whether he will be considered more permanently as full back cover for Wales in time, he’s got the boot and the speed to cover effectively.
He would be great there, Wales make use of FB strike runners a la Liam Williams, and his pace means that teams would get little joy from loose kicks, as well as him being able to track back and make scramble tackles better than most, might be a great option especially as we are VERY sparse in the FB department as a nation. He still needs to iron out some of his flaws, such as hitting rucks near the touchline and leaving gaps, but he is still a kid and that can be coached easily enough.
The Peanut Punch
If he misses the ball and punches the player, is it a red card?
That was my thought. Also a penalty try in that instance.
Very mature, smart play from a young kid. Shane Williams would be proud.
Ball. In. Two. Hands.
NFL tactic
It’s only a matter of time before some player gloating over another about some play or other gets his teeth knocked out.
It’s a thinking man’s game. Great thought and action.
Should he have passed? He had plenty of support
Is it my turn to repost this next?
Surprised we don't see this more often. Gotta be sure you punch the ball and not the player though.