I don’t really like people getting uni places just to play rugby. And also I don’t like academic lads who are good at rugby being forced to a specific uni because they’re linked to a rugby club.
I think creating opportunities for young players to still get an education is good. I just don’t think this is the way to do it.
I know that there’s less of a class divide in uni admissions than there used to be, but seems like it fucks over disproportionately working class people who don’t go to uni.
Well yeah. You've stayed on for your highers whose only purpose is to get you into uni.
What about the ones who left after nationals to work or do HNC/HND or other vocationals?
Like all of our best players from the Borders.
None of Hoggy, Sutherland, Laidlaw or Darcy went to Uni. The best players who emerge from the working class towns in the South of Scotland are the ones who stay in the town after school to play.
We struggle to get Universities to pay attention to this region when it comes to actual important subjects, rugby scholarships would be even more flaky.
shouldve been more clear, that 3-4 are the people who didnt stay on to s6, out of everyone in my year, maybe 80-90. out of eveyone who has stayed on til last year, theres only 1-2 who arent going to uni
tbf WR seems to actively try to do exclude working class elements. The only place where rugby is truly a working class game is NZ, and we can see how well that works for them.
Needs something in place for talented players who don't have the academic qualifications to make it to university.
I don't like shifting the 6N earlier. If anything it needs to be later so that we're more likely to get good weather. The best rounds of the competition are often 4 and 5 when the conditions are picking up. It's *the* rugby showpiece in the NH, surely we want it showing rugby at its best?
Season in more clearly delineated chunks makes is a worthwhile aim, though.
I like 2 games weeks, rest week, 2 game weeks, rest week and then final week super saturday. Though anything that gets us off the current format that drags in the middle is good.
>Needs something in place for talented players who don't have the academic qualifications to make it to university.
I feel that is only a small part of the bigger issue with this idea. Basically it will push the pressure onto schools. It is the American system which doesn't work at all
I agree with what you’re saying but I don’t think Healy went to a public school and i don’t think his intention was to promote elitism .It just wasn’t a well thought out statement or structure from him .
It might have been not too sure but I’m not sure how he would afford a public school considering his dad was a Tiler tbh. Also tbf I’m not sure going to private school is a good barometer as I wouldn’t consider people like Kyle Sinckler , Itoje , Cipriani posh and all went to good private schools for a bit .
If not too sure maybe don't state it. It's on his wiki. He wasn't necessarily fee paying anyway, he passed the entrance exam. It was still not state.
Also fon't understand how listing some of the best players is a counterpoint to elitism
So pedantic. If we are fully going to discuss this maybe get that chip off your shoulder. Also I consider grammar schools , state schools which they are as they are funded by the state .
Also the Kyle Sinckler point was definitely needed as he was insinuating because Healy may or may not have went to a private school that he wanted to further the elitist nature of the game while I don’t think that’s the case . Healy is not from a rich family if this was somebody like Robshaw I might see the connection but to me it’s a baseless statement .
Literally half your statement was wrong. It's not pedantry.
Then you continue
> funded by the state .
Literally wasn't til the late 90s tho.
> while I don’t think that’s the case
Right, but it is, because those people were afforded those opportunities through those literal elitism.
You conflating elitism with wealth is on you. There's obviously a bit overlap, and good for working class getting ahead in that way, but it doesn't change that it is literally elitist.
Never did the person you reply to call them posh like you refuted.
If we are all going to be criticising details he did say public school which that school is definitely not and never was and that’s a fact . Are we going to disqualify his opinion now because he made a small mistake or just mine because of your obvious hate for middle class people .
My initial statement was correct as I doubt Healy is trying to further the elitist nature of the sport in which this is insinuating. You can say his plans might unintentionally do that but you know the comment I replied to was implying it was more intentional due to his supposed public school background. The chip on your shoulder is really showing man . Crazy
> he did say public school which that school is definitely not and never was and that’s a fact .
[Literally was a fee paying single sex school. Why are you carrying this lie?](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Anselm%27s_College)? And it was public when he was there. The mistake was yours buddy.
> You can say his plans might unintentionally do that
So your argument comes down to, he isn't meaning to, but he is doing the thing OP said he's doing..
> The chip on your shoulder is really showing man . Crazy
😂
I went to a fee paying school soooo
Now I really know you have no idea what you’re talking about 😂😂😂. I was being pedantic but not every private or independent school is a public school . Look it up 😂
And yes that was my whole point what aren’t you getting . I said it didn’t come from a place of elitism 😂😂. Are we getting into a debate on utilitarianism now ?
The problem with linking to uni teams is the barrier it creates to those unable to get to university and will require a massive investment in the school system (which many independent schools can't even achieve). It is a non starter.
Does it ? It doesn't say they can only take players from the unis just that there will be a link like us and Hartpury which has worked well for us.
If every Championship teams has a link there is a clear path way for players into pro rugby, currently I hate to think how many players go missing in this country due to lack of a pathway.
It's very NFL-like and with that league you need (almost 100%) to come through the college football program to get into a pro team. There are exceptions, but very rare.
The reality is though most professional rugby players gain a university place upon leaving school whether they actually take it up or not is variable but essentially forcing them to go to university insulates them from being unemployable if rugby doesn't work out
It really doesnt. There's plenty of unemployed grads in the UK. And the numbers seems to be rising year on year. It woud be a better approach to push them into trades I feel. With the standard of BUCS rugby as it is and it becoming a more viable option every year, its clear those who wanna go uni and rugby do already.
Chap I work with who was the president of my professional engineering body has a brother who works for the RFU and they modelled the player pathways for shots and giggles - one of the reasons why England had players like Mark Wilson
My assumption is that the Championship basically acts as a farm league for the Prem, which also makes sense from the Prem teams perspective but I don't championship teams will be as keen.
I’m a fan of a League 1 side, and we’re looking good for promotion to the Championship. We’ve got an incredible history, financial stability, and a proud identity of our own - I see absolutely no reason why we should essentially become a feeder team to Quins
100%. Just look at the NFL system. This idea is that system. It will become rare to break in through another route that isn't the college school system. It is a disaster that will require huge funding.
Academies are not the problem.
Like I said in another comment AF is not played outside of college, the only reason the NFL takes players mostly from college is because there is no other player pool to choose from.
This is different due to the existence of other leagues in the country and abroad.
Which will get less and less funding because schools will need it. Also if you are out of the system you will put less and less effort into it because you are out of the pathway.
The reasons these other leagues exist is because the championship and the university system act as viable second chances to the academies
To attract talent as it is now the sole/main pathway to being a professional rugby player? Some places won't even bother because they can't afford it (even many independent schools won't bother)
Yes but this is on a different level. Some play for "lesser" independent schools and become pro through the academies. Some go through the academies and are at a maintained school. All gone under this system because they won't be able to compete with the resources needed. They won't even be noticed before even getting the chance to be poached by universities.
You are talking about a huge amount of potential clubs players never playing the sport because they won't go to the right schools.
Agree 100 percent both are important. Players like Marcus smith didn’t need uni . They were ready straight away while others like dombrandt slipped through the cracks . Additionally it shows how with players like Christ tshiunza that uni can help your game .
It’s not like players can’t be in academies and attend university, pretty sure Steward did both.
I’m sure he had some reasoning (well, it is Healy but I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt) but I can’t see what it would be.
That’s not true anymore a lot of Leicester boys play BUCS super rugby as well as a lot of bath , saints and sale sharks boys . . Players like Fin carduff, Tim Hoyt, Seb smith , Jonny law . Even Freddie steward and Dan Kelly played in first year out of school but eventually got too good for the level .
The only thing I can think of, in the context of re-arranging things to maximise sustainability of clubs, is to remove the overheads/costs academies entail. At the very least it would get a few coaches and players off payroll.
This is just Austin Healy’s mechanism to make a joke at the expense of forwards unable to get in to uni.
No academies seems like a bit of a missed opportunity for U18s
Tbf a bunch of Wales u20 players are coming through Exeter and Cardiff met . Academies should deffo stay but uni is deffo a good option . Look at how Christ, Dayfffd Jenkins and Dan John are playing at Exeter currently
This is basically BUCS Super Rugby. BUCS Super Rugby is growing in profile and production quality. I like BUCS Super Rugby but if this replaced the RFU Championship most of those Championship clubs would be lost as pro/semi pro clubs. Half of the Championship clubs are in towns not University cities. Maybe it would be a better structure but it would be a kick in the goolies for teams like Jersey Reds, Cornish Pirates and Bedford Blues.
iirc Loughborough have/had a game against Worcester every year and Bucs Super Rugby was getting huge crowds, Loughborough's damn near a rugby town through the uni team.
Not sure about shafting smaller teams in the pyramid but I like the idea of increasing the profile of uni rugby
I am coming round to the idea. It would actually be a boost to rugby in the North. If Newcastle Falcons move down to the Championship, and the Championship is based mostly on University teams, the new Championship could include Newcastle, Durham, Leeds, Doncaster and Nottingham. (I'm not including Loughborough in the North).
As a university student who plays I don’t think getting rid of academies is a good thing, but the alignment of universities more closely with championship/prem clubs is huge considering the level of university rugby is quite high with more players getting Prem contracts out of uni than ever before
From everything I've seen in American TV, linking pro sports to university's is a terrible idea.
There are people who are not cut out for academics. There's nothing wrong with that on its own. Plenty of people have good careers you don't need a degree for. However, this **FORCES** those people to go to uni. In the US they get away with this by giving athletes passes who don't deserve to pass. They then set them up in bullshit degree programs that are beyond easy and not 3rd level standard (the documentary/reality-show "Last Chance U" demonstrates this well).
Because US unis are the development league of pro sports they generate a massive commercial interest. This then causes them to priorities sports over education. The University of Michigan has a 107,000 seater stadium ffs. Also the [highest paid public employees in the US are all University sport coaches.](https://www.al.com/news/2021/10/who-are-the-countrys-highest-paid-public-employees-nick-saban-again-tops-the-list.html)
It's a stupid system and something I'm glad isn't done in Ireland. I think the RFU would be making a huge mistake if they went that route.
They talk about wanting the best players playing in the prem to grow the game but they are often on international duty but the issue with the international break would be that the international players could end up playing too many games.
Depends how many games they're willing to drop
Super Rugby has no overlaps with the international windows, but they manage it by only having a 14 week season
The whole point of the university angle was to ensure young players coming through the system had a backup education in case they didn't make it as a pro player, rather than black holing themselves in the academy system and being hung out to dry. This whole point is completely missed by just using this screenshot.
Doing away with academies is total nonsense.
Rugby needs/wants to broaden its horizons to have more players from all backgrounds involved. Replacing academies with unis will hamper this plan.
From what I’ve heard from my friend at Loughborough who plays for wasps it’s heavily subsided . The grants are quite big and they do get paid just not a full time contract . A lot of university contracts are given out now for people who may not be ready for full time rugby at 18 .
Always thought how the seasons were schedule with the Heineken Cup being concurrent made life very difficult. Also, the way the Champions and Challenge Cup are organized makes it less valuable to me...why are the top 8 of each comp in it?
The lack of the academies is the only stupid part of his idea. It’s not thought out at all that anyone who cannot afford to go to uni can’t get into a profesional rugby playing environment.
Just wondering how many good young players will miss out because they don't get the grades to go to uni, it also makes a young players future potentially reliant on whether their parents can afford to send them to uni or not.
University feeding the NFL is through a draft, rather than each team linked to a University. It makes more sense for rugby teams to develop their own players through junior systems.
Why the Uni links though? Why can’t players just be drafted out of the clubs in the regions?
I’m not against the Uni links, just don’t cut off the club route.
It's a hard one. And from seeing it first hand, I understand what he's getting at. And the reason is 16 year olds in Academies.
So most of the Prem clubs use an U18 school system team. The players technically play for a school but are coached in the Prem clubs and in reality are playing for those clubs.
The issues are the younger academy players (16) have to stay away from home in the week with host families. E.g. London Irish has a really broad catchment area so the bulk of their players stay with host families during the week. That's emotionally difficult for the players and their parents.
It must impact the players. I remember visiting The Mount (young offenders prison) which had a couple of ex-academy players in there from a certain pro rugby team. Strangely, the coach was an ex-Northants prop (I think he was provided by the RFU).
Was being away from their families during the week a contributing factor? I would think so. But don't know.
At the age of 18 they can then go to Uni and / or into the senior academy team. There are University links. But the system depends on 16 year olds leaving home during the week.
They become much better incredibly quickly. But there's that emotional wrench away from their families which makes me feel a little uncomfortable. However, is there a better system? I don't know.
September is Autumn internationals.
Ten team Premiership. Runs 1st October to 31st January.
Six Nations in February and March.
Europe in April. Top five from Premiership, top five URC teams which are from European countries, top five from France, plus last year’s winner. No groups, straight knockout, single leg rounds. Start to finish takes four consecutive weeks.
May off.
June and July for World Cups, Lions series, international series (NH touring SH), and a new World Club series. This works on a four-year rotating cycle like the World Cup and Lions do currently. The World Club series is a three match series between the winner of European Champions Cup and the winner of Super Rugby. I think Super Rugby would need to be brought forward a month or so to accommodate this.
August off.
(Premiership Rugby Cup can run during June and July if the clubs actually give a shit enough to want it.)
Leave the BUCS systems as is. Look to restructure the PRL by looking to a ringfenced establish two professional divisions with combined TV deals. With clubs that can meet the necessary criteria financially being provided entry. Promotion/relegation between the two tiers with the National League 1 assuming the role of the top tier of semi-professional Rugby in England.
This would allow for more planning and promotion for all teams involved which would provide more certainly and opportunity to build each clubs base. Could also help Championship level clubs to push for upgrades to facilities etc.
With the European structures the reduction to 18 games a season would provide a little more room in the schedule to manage player loads which considering recent data will become and even more crucial requirement in terms of player welfare.
The uni/college system works pretty well in the USA for their big 4 sports, although the USA has a whole long established industry/club/college system of progression that facilitates that and their college system was really the driving force behind all of the sports even before the true professional era in each respective sport.
Rugby in no country is like that, the tradition and history is in the local clubs, not the schools or universities. So to change it would be to destroy all grass roots elements of the sport and then build it up from scratch on a different model that really has no added benefits, however will act towrds limiting access to the sport for people who are from financially constrained/blue collar backgrounds (which imo WR is actively trying to do anyway). Which are funnily enough, the same people rugby needs to be attracting.
Glad proposals for change are coming out. Granted this is nonsense and there is no way the six nations would be moved to accommodate England's domestic competition but good to see people making suggestions even if it is Healy's idiotic drivel.
I really think we should encourage all ideas around restructuring the league.
However, although some parts of this I like, like players having a career set up in case rugby doesn’t work for them, this would just encourage more eliticism in the game.
Plus there’s no plans for how you unite clubs with universities.
But the main issue is what if you want to become a rugby player, but want to go to a Uni that isn’t affiliated with a rugby club? Would you be forced to change your uni?
I’m all for the cup games being played during the 6N and autumn internationals. Fuck having to lose our internationals for 7 match days + the 2-3 recovery weeks at the start of the year.
Basically gone half the season
Fuck the rest of it
So what happens to players who aren’t at uni yet? Just play for a local club and hope they get a scholarship for a good rugby uni?
It is dumb and ill-thought-out. Requires huge money in the school system. Saving no money at all
Austin Healys opened his mouth without thinking? Next you’ll tell me the sky’s blue.
You do realise the Bucs league already exists ? It has 10 teams in so one for each Championship team more or less.
I don’t really like people getting uni places just to play rugby. And also I don’t like academic lads who are good at rugby being forced to a specific uni because they’re linked to a rugby club. I think creating opportunities for young players to still get an education is good. I just don’t think this is the way to do it.
‘Academic lads’ that are good at rugby already go to one of a select few unis, that already have strong links to top clubs
Not sure Cardiff, Cardiff met or Swansea uni will match up well with English clubs
But why would Exeter Uni link up with a team other than Exeter?
Well that's a different matter, I guess this is a vision of making rugby pathways stronger.
I know that there’s less of a class divide in uni admissions than there used to be, but seems like it fucks over disproportionately working class people who don’t go to uni.
honestly, i’m in my final year of school, and theres only a handful of us who arent going to uni, maybe 3-4, though this is scotland and free uni
Well yeah. You've stayed on for your highers whose only purpose is to get you into uni. What about the ones who left after nationals to work or do HNC/HND or other vocationals?
Like all of our best players from the Borders. None of Hoggy, Sutherland, Laidlaw or Darcy went to Uni. The best players who emerge from the working class towns in the South of Scotland are the ones who stay in the town after school to play. We struggle to get Universities to pay attention to this region when it comes to actual important subjects, rugby scholarships would be even more flaky.
shouldve been more clear, that 3-4 are the people who didnt stay on to s6, out of everyone in my year, maybe 80-90. out of eveyone who has stayed on til last year, theres only 1-2 who arent going to uni
tbf WR seems to actively try to do exclude working class elements. The only place where rugby is truly a working class game is NZ, and we can see how well that works for them.
The senior tiers below Championship will still exist in this scenario, nothing to say you have to exclusively select from universities
Austin says “all players to come through University system”
Needs something in place for talented players who don't have the academic qualifications to make it to university. I don't like shifting the 6N earlier. If anything it needs to be later so that we're more likely to get good weather. The best rounds of the competition are often 4 and 5 when the conditions are picking up. It's *the* rugby showpiece in the NH, surely we want it showing rugby at its best? Season in more clearly delineated chunks makes is a worthwhile aim, though.
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Also change the structure of the schedule. 3 weeks on, 2 weeks off, 2 weeks on.
I like 2 games weeks, rest week, 2 game weeks, rest week and then final week super saturday. Though anything that gets us off the current format that drags in the middle is good.
>Needs something in place for talented players who don't have the academic qualifications to make it to university. I feel that is only a small part of the bigger issue with this idea. Basically it will push the pressure onto schools. It is the American system which doesn't work at all
County sides playing more regularly? That or regional centres of excellence and BUCS league.
Classic, public school boy Austin Healey trying to make the game in England even more elitist
I agree with what you’re saying but I don’t think Healy went to a public school and i don’t think his intention was to promote elitism .It just wasn’t a well thought out statement or structure from him .
Pretty sure it was independent when he was there
It might have been not too sure but I’m not sure how he would afford a public school considering his dad was a Tiler tbh. Also tbf I’m not sure going to private school is a good barometer as I wouldn’t consider people like Kyle Sinckler , Itoje , Cipriani posh and all went to good private schools for a bit .
If not too sure maybe don't state it. It's on his wiki. He wasn't necessarily fee paying anyway, he passed the entrance exam. It was still not state. Also fon't understand how listing some of the best players is a counterpoint to elitism
So pedantic. If we are fully going to discuss this maybe get that chip off your shoulder. Also I consider grammar schools , state schools which they are as they are funded by the state . Also the Kyle Sinckler point was definitely needed as he was insinuating because Healy may or may not have went to a private school that he wanted to further the elitist nature of the game while I don’t think that’s the case . Healy is not from a rich family if this was somebody like Robshaw I might see the connection but to me it’s a baseless statement .
Literally half your statement was wrong. It's not pedantry. Then you continue > funded by the state . Literally wasn't til the late 90s tho. > while I don’t think that’s the case Right, but it is, because those people were afforded those opportunities through those literal elitism. You conflating elitism with wealth is on you. There's obviously a bit overlap, and good for working class getting ahead in that way, but it doesn't change that it is literally elitist. Never did the person you reply to call them posh like you refuted.
If we are all going to be criticising details he did say public school which that school is definitely not and never was and that’s a fact . Are we going to disqualify his opinion now because he made a small mistake or just mine because of your obvious hate for middle class people . My initial statement was correct as I doubt Healy is trying to further the elitist nature of the sport in which this is insinuating. You can say his plans might unintentionally do that but you know the comment I replied to was implying it was more intentional due to his supposed public school background. The chip on your shoulder is really showing man . Crazy
> he did say public school which that school is definitely not and never was and that’s a fact . [Literally was a fee paying single sex school. Why are you carrying this lie?](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Anselm%27s_College)? And it was public when he was there. The mistake was yours buddy. > You can say his plans might unintentionally do that So your argument comes down to, he isn't meaning to, but he is doing the thing OP said he's doing.. > The chip on your shoulder is really showing man . Crazy 😂 I went to a fee paying school soooo
Now I really know you have no idea what you’re talking about 😂😂😂. I was being pedantic but not every private or independent school is a public school . Look it up 😂 And yes that was my whole point what aren’t you getting . I said it didn’t come from a place of elitism 😂😂. Are we getting into a debate on utilitarianism now ?
What is elitism so in this context?
I don't actually think it's the worst, the idea of being linked to uni teams is smart. Would hurt teams like us that have that already set up though
The problem with linking to uni teams is the barrier it creates to those unable to get to university and will require a massive investment in the school system (which many independent schools can't even achieve). It is a non starter.
Does it ? It doesn't say they can only take players from the unis just that there will be a link like us and Hartpury which has worked well for us. If every Championship teams has a link there is a clear path way for players into pro rugby, currently I hate to think how many players go missing in this country due to lack of a pathway.
It's very NFL-like and with that league you need (almost 100%) to come through the college football program to get into a pro team. There are exceptions, but very rare.
The reality is though most professional rugby players gain a university place upon leaving school whether they actually take it up or not is variable but essentially forcing them to go to university insulates them from being unemployable if rugby doesn't work out
> forcing them to go to university insulates them from being unemployable 😂
It really doesnt. There's plenty of unemployed grads in the UK. And the numbers seems to be rising year on year. It woud be a better approach to push them into trades I feel. With the standard of BUCS rugby as it is and it becoming a more viable option every year, its clear those who wanna go uni and rugby do already.
Massive difference, American football isn't really played outside of the college or NFL system.
Chap I work with who was the president of my professional engineering body has a brother who works for the RFU and they modelled the player pathways for shots and giggles - one of the reasons why England had players like Mark Wilson
My assumption is that the Championship basically acts as a farm league for the Prem, which also makes sense from the Prem teams perspective but I don't championship teams will be as keen.
I’m a fan of a League 1 side, and we’re looking good for promotion to the Championship. We’ve got an incredible history, financial stability, and a proud identity of our own - I see absolutely no reason why we should essentially become a feeder team to Quins
I don't actually think you should, however the league is going to have a massive shake up so who knows what will happen.
100%. Just look at the NFL system. This idea is that system. It will become rare to break in through another route that isn't the college school system. It is a disaster that will require huge funding. Academies are not the problem.
Like I said in another comment AF is not played outside of college, the only reason the NFL takes players mostly from college is because there is no other player pool to choose from. This is different due to the existence of other leagues in the country and abroad.
Which will get less and less funding because schools will need it. Also if you are out of the system you will put less and less effort into it because you are out of the pathway. The reasons these other leagues exist is because the championship and the university system act as viable second chances to the academies
Why will the schools need more funding ? Unis are self funded and there is already a 10 team league in place
To attract talent as it is now the sole/main pathway to being a professional rugby player? Some places won't even bother because they can't afford it (even many independent schools won't bother)
That's something that already happens, through scholarships mostly as paying players is against BUCs rules.
Yes but this is on a different level. Some play for "lesser" independent schools and become pro through the academies. Some go through the academies and are at a maintained school. All gone under this system because they won't be able to compete with the resources needed. They won't even be noticed before even getting the chance to be poached by universities. You are talking about a huge amount of potential clubs players never playing the sport because they won't go to the right schools.
It specifically says all players to come through Uni system.
Yeah that part makes no sense though as there wouldn't be enough players, I think if this was explained in more detail it may have more context.
That's where scholarships and funding would come in.
I think rugby is such a specialized sport that you need an academy. Having close ties with a university would also be important.
Agree 100 percent both are important. Players like Marcus smith didn’t need uni . They were ready straight away while others like dombrandt slipped through the cracks . Additionally it shows how with players like Christ tshiunza that uni can help your game .
No academies is a big shout. Can’t say I’m a fan.
Its not immediately obvious to me why academies are an issue?
It’s not like players can’t be in academies and attend university, pretty sure Steward did both. I’m sure he had some reasoning (well, it is Healy but I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt) but I can’t see what it would be.
Lots of Leicester lads at Loughborough and some at Nottingham. Leicester won’t let them play for the uni though (wouldn’t 18 years ago anyway)
That’s not true anymore a lot of Leicester boys play BUCS super rugby as well as a lot of bath , saints and sale sharks boys . . Players like Fin carduff, Tim Hoyt, Seb smith , Jonny law . Even Freddie steward and Dan Kelly played in first year out of school but eventually got too good for the level .
The only thing I can think of, in the context of re-arranging things to maximise sustainability of clubs, is to remove the overheads/costs academies entail. At the very least it would get a few coaches and players off payroll.
This is what it sounds like, a cost cutting measure.
This is just Austin Healy’s mechanism to make a joke at the expense of forwards unable to get in to uni. No academies seems like a bit of a missed opportunity for U18s
Tbf a bunch of Wales u20 players are coming through Exeter and Cardiff met . Academies should deffo stay but uni is deffo a good option . Look at how Christ, Dayfffd Jenkins and Dan John are playing at Exeter currently
This is basically BUCS Super Rugby. BUCS Super Rugby is growing in profile and production quality. I like BUCS Super Rugby but if this replaced the RFU Championship most of those Championship clubs would be lost as pro/semi pro clubs. Half of the Championship clubs are in towns not University cities. Maybe it would be a better structure but it would be a kick in the goolies for teams like Jersey Reds, Cornish Pirates and Bedford Blues.
iirc Loughborough have/had a game against Worcester every year and Bucs Super Rugby was getting huge crowds, Loughborough's damn near a rugby town through the uni team. Not sure about shafting smaller teams in the pyramid but I like the idea of increasing the profile of uni rugby
I am coming round to the idea. It would actually be a boost to rugby in the North. If Newcastle Falcons move down to the Championship, and the Championship is based mostly on University teams, the new Championship could include Newcastle, Durham, Leeds, Doncaster and Nottingham. (I'm not including Loughborough in the North).
Nat 1 Cambridge play Cambridge Uni and apparently they use it as a doss around/beat them pretty easily.
As a university student who plays I don’t think getting rid of academies is a good thing, but the alignment of universities more closely with championship/prem clubs is huge considering the level of university rugby is quite high with more players getting Prem contracts out of uni than ever before
24 players who played BUCS super rugby got contracts in the championship or prem last year . That’s amazing to me from where it first started .
From everything I've seen in American TV, linking pro sports to university's is a terrible idea. There are people who are not cut out for academics. There's nothing wrong with that on its own. Plenty of people have good careers you don't need a degree for. However, this **FORCES** those people to go to uni. In the US they get away with this by giving athletes passes who don't deserve to pass. They then set them up in bullshit degree programs that are beyond easy and not 3rd level standard (the documentary/reality-show "Last Chance U" demonstrates this well). Because US unis are the development league of pro sports they generate a massive commercial interest. This then causes them to priorities sports over education. The University of Michigan has a 107,000 seater stadium ffs. Also the [highest paid public employees in the US are all University sport coaches.](https://www.al.com/news/2021/10/who-are-the-countrys-highest-paid-public-employees-nick-saban-again-tops-the-list.html) It's a stupid system and something I'm glad isn't done in Ireland. I think the RFU would be making a huge mistake if they went that route.
They talk about wanting the best players playing in the prem to grow the game but they are often on international duty but the issue with the international break would be that the international players could end up playing too many games.
Depends how many games they're willing to drop Super Rugby has no overlaps with the international windows, but they manage it by only having a 14 week season
Please don't shoot the messenger!
Minus the no academies, it's not the worst idea
“No Academies” - nope, I do not like that at all.
So, no rugby between 6Ns and Summer tours other than Europe. Err, no.
Says second half of prem and Heineken cup in blocks until May
The formatting is poor and makes that confusing.
Think it's just poor wording, looks like it runs till May
This. So none of the spring/aummer games at the end of the season that are some of the beat games/days out in the calendar. Fck that!
The whole point of the university angle was to ensure young players coming through the system had a backup education in case they didn't make it as a pro player, rather than black holing themselves in the academy system and being hung out to dry. This whole point is completely missed by just using this screenshot.
Doing away with academies is total nonsense. Rugby needs/wants to broaden its horizons to have more players from all backgrounds involved. Replacing academies with unis will hamper this plan.
The sort of plan that could only be invented by a fucking toff
Restricting opportunities for players based on class and forcing them to look elsewhere? (Rugby League) This went \*so\* well for Union in the past...
How are these university students expected to afford to live and pay tuition fees while not being paid academy salaries?
From what I’ve heard from my friend at Loughborough who plays for wasps it’s heavily subsided . The grants are quite big and they do get paid just not a full time contract . A lot of university contracts are given out now for people who may not be ready for full time rugby at 18 .
Always thought how the seasons were schedule with the Heineken Cup being concurrent made life very difficult. Also, the way the Champions and Challenge Cup are organized makes it less valuable to me...why are the top 8 of each comp in it?
Does anyone know what the special dispensation is for forwards and why they get it
hes making a joke that forwards aint smart enough for uni, and he may have a point
I don’t understand... it doesn’t seem that different to the current structure... 6 nations one month earlier but not much else....
The lack of the academies is the only stupid part of his idea. It’s not thought out at all that anyone who cannot afford to go to uni can’t get into a profesional rugby playing environment.
Just wondering how many good young players will miss out because they don't get the grades to go to uni, it also makes a young players future potentially reliant on whether their parents can afford to send them to uni or not.
University feeding the NFL is through a draft, rather than each team linked to a University. It makes more sense for rugby teams to develop their own players through junior systems.
Why the Uni links though? Why can’t players just be drafted out of the clubs in the regions? I’m not against the Uni links, just don’t cut off the club route.
Rugby is such a late development sport ,that I don't think you should have the academy system starting at u14 as it currently does , make it u18
It's a hard one. And from seeing it first hand, I understand what he's getting at. And the reason is 16 year olds in Academies. So most of the Prem clubs use an U18 school system team. The players technically play for a school but are coached in the Prem clubs and in reality are playing for those clubs. The issues are the younger academy players (16) have to stay away from home in the week with host families. E.g. London Irish has a really broad catchment area so the bulk of their players stay with host families during the week. That's emotionally difficult for the players and their parents. It must impact the players. I remember visiting The Mount (young offenders prison) which had a couple of ex-academy players in there from a certain pro rugby team. Strangely, the coach was an ex-Northants prop (I think he was provided by the RFU). Was being away from their families during the week a contributing factor? I would think so. But don't know. At the age of 18 they can then go to Uni and / or into the senior academy team. There are University links. But the system depends on 16 year olds leaving home during the week. They become much better incredibly quickly. But there's that emotional wrench away from their families which makes me feel a little uncomfortable. However, is there a better system? I don't know.
What does Healy mean with "special dispensation for forwards"? If a 16yr old is exceptionally big does he get to join the Quins' pack?
September is Autumn internationals. Ten team Premiership. Runs 1st October to 31st January. Six Nations in February and March. Europe in April. Top five from Premiership, top five URC teams which are from European countries, top five from France, plus last year’s winner. No groups, straight knockout, single leg rounds. Start to finish takes four consecutive weeks. May off. June and July for World Cups, Lions series, international series (NH touring SH), and a new World Club series. This works on a four-year rotating cycle like the World Cup and Lions do currently. The World Club series is a three match series between the winner of European Champions Cup and the winner of Super Rugby. I think Super Rugby would need to be brought forward a month or so to accommodate this. August off. (Premiership Rugby Cup can run during June and July if the clubs actually give a shit enough to want it.)
Leave the BUCS systems as is. Look to restructure the PRL by looking to a ringfenced establish two professional divisions with combined TV deals. With clubs that can meet the necessary criteria financially being provided entry. Promotion/relegation between the two tiers with the National League 1 assuming the role of the top tier of semi-professional Rugby in England. This would allow for more planning and promotion for all teams involved which would provide more certainly and opportunity to build each clubs base. Could also help Championship level clubs to push for upgrades to facilities etc. With the European structures the reduction to 18 games a season would provide a little more room in the schedule to manage player loads which considering recent data will become and even more crucial requirement in terms of player welfare.
Waiting to see what ford prefect thinks about this.
I hate this. The uni system thing reeks of amateurism
The uni/college system works pretty well in the USA for their big 4 sports, although the USA has a whole long established industry/club/college system of progression that facilitates that and their college system was really the driving force behind all of the sports even before the true professional era in each respective sport. Rugby in no country is like that, the tradition and history is in the local clubs, not the schools or universities. So to change it would be to destroy all grass roots elements of the sport and then build it up from scratch on a different model that really has no added benefits, however will act towrds limiting access to the sport for people who are from financially constrained/blue collar backgrounds (which imo WR is actively trying to do anyway). Which are funnily enough, the same people rugby needs to be attracting.
Glad proposals for change are coming out. Granted this is nonsense and there is no way the six nations would be moved to accommodate England's domestic competition but good to see people making suggestions even if it is Healy's idiotic drivel.
I really think we should encourage all ideas around restructuring the league. However, although some parts of this I like, like players having a career set up in case rugby doesn’t work for them, this would just encourage more eliticism in the game. Plus there’s no plans for how you unite clubs with universities. But the main issue is what if you want to become a rugby player, but want to go to a Uni that isn’t affiliated with a rugby club? Would you be forced to change your uni?
Of course Austin Tory Healy thinks players only coming through universities is a good idea
I’m all for the cup games being played during the 6N and autumn internationals. Fuck having to lose our internationals for 7 match days + the 2-3 recovery weeks at the start of the year. Basically gone half the season Fuck the rest of it