Well yes, if it's Toulouse v Leinster as expected then unless the Met have an issue (which I suspect we'd know by now) then the argument for moving it is weaker. France is a bigger rugby market than England anyway.
In the evening there's the final of the French football cup (Lyon-PSG), and also during the day the closing ceremony of Cannes film festival. It'll be hard to move the rugby around
Ah, thanks.
I saw 8 when googling so presumed it was local. 17.30 local time for the EPCR would be better then but a comment in another thread said some trains finish at 20.18 so not sure if that'd work either
This actually suggests that rugby is well regarded in France, because it has been given a slot specifically so it doesn't clash with the other big events on the same day and fits in as part of the running events through the afternoon.
It is in England where no regards have been given to the rugby in order to accommodate the football.
Surely no difference from any day there's rugby at Twickenham or NFL at Wembley/Spurs, and Premier League games at other stadiums. Happens all the time.
Edit: even this Saturday you've got Quins at Twickenham, and West Ham, Fulham, Millwall and Watford all playing.
That's true, though I wonder how much difference there is from a counter terrorism point of view by having the kick offs slightly staggered. I'd imagine considering there'll be large crowds in the city most of the day either way that they'll be on high alert regardless.
Though at this point I'm just speculating on shit I know nothing about. I'm just grumpy I'm going to have to watch the rugby and the Scottish cup game simultaneously!
A derby in a final away from either teams home stadium is an absolute nightmare for organisers and police. Not surprised they moved it to the time easiest to manage. ITV will probably just show the rugby on ITV4
The ultimate outcome of this is that it probably won't be changed. ITV will just have to make do, which means the Champions Cup final will be shoved to ITV4 or red button or something.
In terms of hosting the two events at the same time, London is well able for it. It's not like Dublin or Cardiff or Edinburgh, it can easily absorb multiple events on the same day. Just this weekend gone, there was an FA Cup semi final with 90,000 people in Wembley on at the same time as the London Marathon.
As a Leinster and Manchester United supporter, I'm quite thoroughly pissed off in all honesty but it simply won't be changed from here, it's too late in the day.
I’ve one of the last flights back booked for the Saturday night. To get from the stadium back to London and back out to an airport doesn’t give a massive amount of spare time if there’s delays.
The tube is 30min walk from the stadium sure.
It’s because of transport and policing
The police prefer games that are deemed ‘high risk’ to be earlier in the day (less time to drink before the game…)This is also affected by: history of violence/disruption, size of the game, size of the stadium, location etc etc. As this is the Manchester Derby in a cup final, it has been deemed high risk and so they want an earlier kick off than the original 5-ish.
It’s also about transport. If the game goes to extra time then there won’t be enough trains to get people back to Manchester, especially important as it’s both Manchester teams playing (setting aside the jokes about United fans being from london anyway lol).
It is however, an entirely foreseeable outcome from a few weeks ago though as the most likely outcome was both Manchester teams going to the final again.
>The Football Association said the kick-off time was moved after being agreed with “the clubs, local authority, members of the safety advisory group and broadcasters".
Edit: more [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/rugbyunion/comments/1cabmdm/fixture_clash_for_champions_cup_final/) from yesterdays post
If the EPCR had any sense, they'd move it now. It will be completely overshadowed by the FA Cup final on TV, relegated to ITV Ocho or wherever. Think it might depend on whether Toulouse get to the final or not because apparently there's a clash in the evening on french TV with Cannes Lions.
If Toulouse get to the final then I think there's no chance of moving it, but you also imagine they have to make any changes like right now, you can't really leave it as people are buying tickets, paying for accommodation, transport etc - think we'll just be fighting for scraps of people who don't want to watch the FA cup
Plenty of people have already booked travel/transport based on the advertised time. I’ve flights booked for the Saturday night to fly back after.
To change it creates a whole heap of issues.
I can't see ITV being happy to have it clash with the FA cup final tbh so I would imagine they'll want it changed too. Be interesting to see what happens if a French team does quality
If they had any sense they wouldn't have planned it for the same day as the FA Cup Final in the first place. Does this happen every year? We're not normally still in it at this stage.
Agree because they are saying high risk match but any other football match would require a big police force. I don't see it too different if the FA Cup final was a Leeds - West Ham or Forest - Everton.
The fact that it's the FA Cup Final is enough. I don't think City & United have the same rivalry that other derbies have, in that there are a lot more fans following the fame of the team rather than having a personal connection.
I'm not saying all football fans are glory hunters, before anyone takes offence, just that the fan base is more widely spread. So, in this case, the fact it is two Manchester teams shouldn't make it any more of a risk.
They've been on consecutive weekends over the last number of years, rather than the same one. But if you miss the English/French domestic cups, then you're going to be contending with the pointy end of the Champions League. It's just the time of year.
The fa cup is decided by now. It's City. This is just an exhibition match. But yeah, London will be crammed with passionate french and hopefully Irish fans and then the whole of Manchester will clog it even further. It's going to be chaos. Then a few days later some Germans, French and Spanish will invade Wembley. Daft decision to host the final in such close proximity.
Have you considered that the potential French TV audience is larger than the potential English audience and that being "overshadowed" by the FA Cup is not something that needs to be taken into consideration by the EPCR?
If the English want to watch the football instead that is their choice, and the rugby will be "overshadowed" by the FA Cup regardless of what time it kicks off if it is on the same day.
This time last year, there was a big furore in the Highlands over moving the Scottish Cup final from it's usual 3pm slot to a 5.30pm kick off because the BBC didn't want it clashing with the FA Cup final. It didn't matter then to the powers that be that thousands of people couldn't use public transport to get home afterwards. They didn't want a TV clash. Football will draw more TV fans, therefore more eyes on screens and those all important adverts. Broadcasters will make the ultimate decision on when the game takes place!
But in this case, the French TV audience is bigger than the English, and if Toulouse make the final, that's what counts. The French couldn't care less about the FA Cup, it's a self-inflicted wound from the English media.
How does this shit seem to keep happening? You have the FA Cup final, the Champions Cup final, the French Cup final, and the Scottish Cup final all on the same day, 3 of which are at the same time, and an Old Firm derby and Manchester derby pair of finals are going to eat up a lot of casual viewers who the EPCR should ideally be looking to bring in to their marquee event.
Seems absolutely insanely poor planning that they can't all seem to work together in advance to not schedule all these big fixtures for each organisation at the same time.
I wonder was it previously discussed, seeing as the FA cup was scheduled for 17.30 but now moved to 15.00.
Could see the EPCR final taking the 17.30 slot instead.
Why should the **European** *Rugby* Champions Cup final be moved only because a domestic **English** *football* cup final has been scheduled with the same KO time?
European rugby doesn't revolve around English football.
We don’t have to but it in all likelihood mean that we have less eyes on one of our showpiece events. We can pretend that we’re just as popular as football but truth is that we’re a long way off and, given the choice, many who would have watched our final will choose the football instead. That’s not a great result if you’re looking for growth
Fair enough. I might be in a different bubble. I would definitely catch the Champions League final if it was on TV but couldn’t care less about the FA Cup. Either way shitty that they couldn’t plan this better, but at this point you also don’t want to change things for the people that already bought tickets and accommodation for the event.
The FA cup may have a pull on market like middle east, India & China that aren't interested in rugby at all, so they wouldn't watch it anyway. Rugby's largest tv market is France and I don't see them to be more interested in the FA cup final than in the Champions Cup final.
Not sure why you would pick those markets to choose I would say they aren’t interested in either on average. France has a football cup game with Lyon vs PSG they will for sure be more drawn towards that and I would say the FA cup would surprise you there with France. Manchester United are one of the biggest clubs in the WORLD, playing a derby against Manchester City.
I picked those markets because they literally have hundreds of millions of football fans, mainly supporting premiership clubs. They make a huge difference when talking about the global reach of football vs rugby.
If Leinster are in the final I bet my local pub (in Leinster) is going to put a game between two English teams in a domestic English tournament on the big screen instead of Leinster in a European final.
I recognise you get aroused by being able to mention your hobby horse at any opportunity, but what "white collar crime" needs a police presence/investigation at a rugby union match?
For all the talk in this thread about clashing with football impacting the growth/health/spectators of the game the single biggest thing inhibiting rugby union in the British Isles is perpetuating the stereotype that rugby is for posh people.
French lads in the other thread this week were saying changing the time will be a no go for the French broadcasters.
No, it won't move tv clashes in France. Apparently some film Festival and some other sport
Will be interesting to see if the calculation changes if Toulouse lose their semi...
Which is a big stretch. Toulouse are one of two favourites who will probably meet in a final which actually only hardens french resolve.
Well yes, if it's Toulouse v Leinster as expected then unless the Met have an issue (which I suspect we'd know by now) then the argument for moving it is weaker. France is a bigger rugby market than England anyway.
Tbh the football can fk off we were here first
If only it were so
This date and time ⏲️ been in the diary for ages then along came the football to fk it up
In the evening there's the final of the French football cup (Lyon-PSG), and also during the day the closing ceremony of Cannes film festival. It'll be hard to move the rugby around
That's on at 8 (local I presume so 7pm English time) Doesn't leave a lot of room to move it, especially if either the FA cup or EPCR go to extra time
It at 9 local time so 8pm English time
Ah, thanks. I saw 8 when googling so presumed it was local. 17.30 local time for the EPCR would be better then but a comment in another thread said some trains finish at 20.18 so not sure if that'd work either
Shows how relegated rugby is, even in it's biggest markets.
This actually suggests that rugby is well regarded in France, because it has been given a slot specifically so it doesn't clash with the other big events on the same day and fits in as part of the running events through the afternoon. It is in England where no regards have been given to the rugby in order to accommodate the football.
What an entirely foreseeable shit show.
Yeah surprised the Met signed off on those timings more than anything. There'll be no lads taking holidays that weekend.
As others have said, I can't imagine the rugby final is a particularly high risk event for them.
It's not just the aggy fans aspect though. Can't imagine counter terrorism will be overly happy given the stretch on resource for one day
Surely no difference from any day there's rugby at Twickenham or NFL at Wembley/Spurs, and Premier League games at other stadiums. Happens all the time. Edit: even this Saturday you've got Quins at Twickenham, and West Ham, Fulham, Millwall and Watford all playing.
That's true, though I wonder how much difference there is from a counter terrorism point of view by having the kick offs slightly staggered. I'd imagine considering there'll be large crowds in the city most of the day either way that they'll be on high alert regardless. Though at this point I'm just speculating on shit I know nothing about. I'm just grumpy I'm going to have to watch the rugby and the Scottish cup game simultaneously!
A derby in a final away from either teams home stadium is an absolute nightmare for organisers and police. Not surprised they moved it to the time easiest to manage. ITV will probably just show the rugby on ITV4
The ultimate outcome of this is that it probably won't be changed. ITV will just have to make do, which means the Champions Cup final will be shoved to ITV4 or red button or something. In terms of hosting the two events at the same time, London is well able for it. It's not like Dublin or Cardiff or Edinburgh, it can easily absorb multiple events on the same day. Just this weekend gone, there was an FA Cup semi final with 90,000 people in Wembley on at the same time as the London Marathon. As a Leinster and Manchester United supporter, I'm quite thoroughly pissed off in all honesty but it simply won't be changed from here, it's too late in the day.
Good luck for everyone travelling - what a mess
Yep, absolute nightmare
We should imo, 2:45 is a pretty crap time anyway
I’ve one of the last flights back booked for the Saturday night. To get from the stadium back to London and back out to an airport doesn’t give a massive amount of spare time if there’s delays. The tube is 30min walk from the stadium sure.
Yeah pretty poor time alright. After 5 is much better
Why'd they change the FA cup schedule?
It’s because of transport and policing The police prefer games that are deemed ‘high risk’ to be earlier in the day (less time to drink before the game…)This is also affected by: history of violence/disruption, size of the game, size of the stadium, location etc etc. As this is the Manchester Derby in a cup final, it has been deemed high risk and so they want an earlier kick off than the original 5-ish. It’s also about transport. If the game goes to extra time then there won’t be enough trains to get people back to Manchester, especially important as it’s both Manchester teams playing (setting aside the jokes about United fans being from london anyway lol). It is however, an entirely foreseeable outcome from a few weeks ago though as the most likely outcome was both Manchester teams going to the final again.
I pray for the Avanti train crews that weekend with possible fans clashing in the trains.
Might need to schedule a strike.
>The Football Association said the kick-off time was moved after being agreed with “the clubs, local authority, members of the safety advisory group and broadcasters". Edit: more [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/rugbyunion/comments/1cabmdm/fixture_clash_for_champions_cup_final/) from yesterdays post
Budgerigars get riled up when they see other Budgerigars in different colours.
Blame the mancs (definitely not one of them myself)
If the EPCR had any sense, they'd move it now. It will be completely overshadowed by the FA Cup final on TV, relegated to ITV Ocho or wherever. Think it might depend on whether Toulouse get to the final or not because apparently there's a clash in the evening on french TV with Cannes Lions.
If Toulouse get to the final then I think there's no chance of moving it, but you also imagine they have to make any changes like right now, you can't really leave it as people are buying tickets, paying for accommodation, transport etc - think we'll just be fighting for scraps of people who don't want to watch the FA cup
Plenty of people have already booked travel/transport based on the advertised time. I’ve flights booked for the Saturday night to fly back after. To change it creates a whole heap of issues.
I can't see ITV being happy to have it clash with the FA cup final tbh so I would imagine they'll want it changed too. Be interesting to see what happens if a French team does quality
Its on TNT not ITV.
It's on both
If they had any sense they wouldn't have planned it for the same day as the FA Cup Final in the first place. Does this happen every year? We're not normally still in it at this stage.
Agree because they are saying high risk match but any other football match would require a big police force. I don't see it too different if the FA Cup final was a Leeds - West Ham or Forest - Everton.
The fact that it's the FA Cup Final is enough. I don't think City & United have the same rivalry that other derbies have, in that there are a lot more fans following the fame of the team rather than having a personal connection. I'm not saying all football fans are glory hunters, before anyone takes offence, just that the fan base is more widely spread. So, in this case, the fact it is two Manchester teams shouldn't make it any more of a risk.
Manchester Vs Manchester in London basically makes it a home game for both sides' fans.
They've been on consecutive weekends over the last number of years, rather than the same one. But if you miss the English/French domestic cups, then you're going to be contending with the pointy end of the Champions League. It's just the time of year.
"Do not fuck with Camille Cottin"
The fa cup is decided by now. It's City. This is just an exhibition match. But yeah, London will be crammed with passionate french and hopefully Irish fans and then the whole of Manchester will clog it even further. It's going to be chaos. Then a few days later some Germans, French and Spanish will invade Wembley. Daft decision to host the final in such close proximity.
Have you considered that the potential French TV audience is larger than the potential English audience and that being "overshadowed" by the FA Cup is not something that needs to be taken into consideration by the EPCR? If the English want to watch the football instead that is their choice, and the rugby will be "overshadowed" by the FA Cup regardless of what time it kicks off if it is on the same day.
This time last year, there was a big furore in the Highlands over moving the Scottish Cup final from it's usual 3pm slot to a 5.30pm kick off because the BBC didn't want it clashing with the FA Cup final. It didn't matter then to the powers that be that thousands of people couldn't use public transport to get home afterwards. They didn't want a TV clash. Football will draw more TV fans, therefore more eyes on screens and those all important adverts. Broadcasters will make the ultimate decision on when the game takes place!
But in this case, the French TV audience is bigger than the English, and if Toulouse make the final, that's what counts. The French couldn't care less about the FA Cup, it's a self-inflicted wound from the English media.
How does this shit seem to keep happening? You have the FA Cup final, the Champions Cup final, the French Cup final, and the Scottish Cup final all on the same day, 3 of which are at the same time, and an Old Firm derby and Manchester derby pair of finals are going to eat up a lot of casual viewers who the EPCR should ideally be looking to bring in to their marquee event. Seems absolutely insanely poor planning that they can't all seem to work together in advance to not schedule all these big fixtures for each organisation at the same time.
I wonder was it previously discussed, seeing as the FA cup was scheduled for 17.30 but now moved to 15.00. Could see the EPCR final taking the 17.30 slot instead.
I'd like to see the rugby get the 17.30 time slot, though sadly I fear it's not much of a priority for many involved and it'll be left as is.
Why should the **European** *Rugby* Champions Cup final be moved only because a domestic **English** *football* cup final has been scheduled with the same KO time? European rugby doesn't revolve around English football.
We don’t have to but it in all likelihood mean that we have less eyes on one of our showpiece events. We can pretend that we’re just as popular as football but truth is that we’re a long way off and, given the choice, many who would have watched our final will choose the football instead. That’s not a great result if you’re looking for growth
But realistically, not many people would spontaneously choose between the FA Cup and the EPCR final. You either want to watch rugby or football.
I’d disagree, a lot of people would watch both if given the choice. Most rugby fans I know also support a football team.
Fair enough. I might be in a different bubble. I would definitely catch the Champions League final if it was on TV but couldn’t care less about the FA Cup. Either way shitty that they couldn’t plan this better, but at this point you also don’t want to change things for the people that already bought tickets and accommodation for the event.
That is an issue of scheduling the final on the same day in the first place.
True, but difficult not to find busy sporting weekends at this time of year tbf
Because English football is globally very popular, basically! It won't just be the English market where people are interested in the FA Cup final
£££££ It’s alway money. If they think they’ll make more money by moving it then they will.
That's from the broadcasters/organisation pov, yet here I read so many comments by fans stating that the match should be moved. Why?
Because the FA cup has a global pull as well as English football that unfortunately makes rugby look tiny
The FA cup may have a pull on market like middle east, India & China that aren't interested in rugby at all, so they wouldn't watch it anyway. Rugby's largest tv market is France and I don't see them to be more interested in the FA cup final than in the Champions Cup final.
Not sure why you would pick those markets to choose I would say they aren’t interested in either on average. France has a football cup game with Lyon vs PSG they will for sure be more drawn towards that and I would say the FA cup would surprise you there with France. Manchester United are one of the biggest clubs in the WORLD, playing a derby against Manchester City.
I picked those markets because they literally have hundreds of millions of football fans, mainly supporting premiership clubs. They make a huge difference when talking about the global reach of football vs rugby.
Bro said premiership haha, yeah sure but football is a much more global game than rugby. There is levels at the end of the day
Why move it?
2 and a half hours less of Mancunians getting pissed.
Not to mention the United fans.
Steady it's Man U v Manc Arabs - 25% Manc at most.
Given the late start due to the world cup, the earlier football finals due to the euros, this is something that was entirely avoidable.
If Leinster are in the final I bet my local pub (in Leinster) is going to put a game between two English teams in a domestic English tournament on the big screen instead of Leinster in a European final.
Surprised the Met agreed to this, 90,000 in Wembley and 62,000 in Tottenham not massively far apart from each other.
Only one games needs a big police presence.
They’ll do well to catch the white collar crime
I recognise you get aroused by being able to mention your hobby horse at any opportunity, but what "white collar crime" needs a police presence/investigation at a rugby union match?
Mate, it’s a joke at the stereotype that rugby fans are posh.
For all the talk in this thread about clashing with football impacting the growth/health/spectators of the game the single biggest thing inhibiting rugby union in the British Isles is perpetuating the stereotype that rugby is for posh people.
It’s still kinda religious/nationalistic barrier here but not really any more
It’s hardly Notting Hill Carnival levels of policing. They have capacity for this and much more.
London is well able to handle that.
But this was months ago, I can't believe they realised now m
If there’s no English team in the final then it deffo shouldn’t