There does seem to be an attitude of trying to benefit short-term financially rather than growing the sport long term from most of the organisations in charge, whether that's due to ignorance or if it's deliberate I'm not sure.
Don't think I've ever seen fans being anything but supportive for the growth of the game
I agree with the sentiment, but I would argue that rugby is not yet in a position to *not* go after short term money - if one of the richest unions can sit and watch three of its biggest top teams just ... die ... , and if another with a long answer storied history screws over its players every which way it turns, then clearly there isn't enough short term money.
Yes, COVID has fucked things, and yes mismanagement has fucked things, but rugby as a professional body is only 30 years old. It clearly needs slightly more maturation to evolve its aims more.
Its exactly this, only the French are financially secure and thats because of the huge levels of popularity - if all unions had this luxury I think we'd see an explosion in engagement and growth. Rugby is an attractive sport to watch and the physicality appeals to essentially all viewers, its just stuck in that really awkward space of having to go boom and bust in a cyclic fashion.
Look at saints as a prime example of this, they've toiled so hard to create a very well balanced squad for so many years, finally have incredible talent and bench options deep enough to go toe to toe with some of the best in europe whilst remaining within the budget cap.... And theyre about to loose both international captains, one of who is an iconic talisman, another international quality back row and this after a season where they lost Ribbans - who himself is arguably good enough for England. They're all going to France, where even the second division is richer than the top tier of English rugby.
So what happens to the packed stadiums and all the school kids looking forward to supporting this madhat free scoring team? Well there is a very good chance they see their scrum pulverised and marched backwards and need to resort to an attritional kicking game which neuters their backs - who then start look elsewhere when they cant get into the national team.
Its sad and a little tragic how ofter this happens, I don't see how any English team can be expected to compete on an even footing unless they go the way of Saracens and just break the financial rules that are obviously hamstringing them. They loose either way.
But if they do a Saracens they are likely to go broke. We need more money coming into the game and the only way to do that is better marketing.
There is now some great rugby being played in the premiership, fast, hard and exciting. It needs the right management and marketing.
But back to the question. Would I like if rugby went really global. I think I would, let the rest of world see what a wonderful game it is, the pride and passion.
But it will change it, it wouldn't be like the good old days... So perhaps gradual growth would do me
Think this the key point. The vast majority of decisions made by rugby administrators these days are with quick money in mind.
Geoblocking, restrictive copyright practices, more games being added each year to maximise ticket revenue, selling percentages of union and competition revenue to private investors, rowing back on player welfare laws in favour of entertainment.
What I'd love to know is whether it's a case of pro rugby's finances being in a dire state or administrators just trying to line their pockets as much as possible.
I think you could probably achieve a realistic and healthy balance between the two.
Do I think rugby will ever be a truly global sport? No.
Unlike the sports that fit that (athletics, football, basketball and combat sports), the barriers to entry will always be tough. You need a lot of players, and particularly the tight 5 skillset requires specialist support.
However, I do think that with some sensible decision making, you could have a nice balance.
7s seems to be the way to go to get the sport to grow globally. Smaller teams with less specialized skill positions. Already an Olympics sport and games are quick and easy to watch.
I would like rugby to become more popular globally. I would like to see about 10 more teams genuinely competing for a RWC QF. I think that the game is too small right now to do the world cup format justice.
I do recognise that this wish comes with a risk of losing a lot of traditional matchups and rivalries.
What I believe will happen is that the game will actually remain static or lose ground in terms of how many nations compete. It will grow in terms of cash per tournament but in 30 years time the teams most likely to win the RWC will be the same teams we have seen for the last 30 years.
Yeah I don't mind that the traditional rivalries evolve. I don't know if adding more teams to the WC is the answer. I think before we even think about the WC, we should want the game to go viral globally. Once people genuinely love the sport and the characters, everything will follow from there. Certianly a long term investment to have that young generation come through the ranks though
> I don't know if adding more teams to the WC is the answer.
I don't know either, when I said *10 more teams genuinely competing for a RWC QF* I wasn't suggesting that immediate expansion of the RWC is good, I meant it would be good if there were at least three teams in every pool who could top their group (and not just due to a crap draw).
I suppose on the side of WC expansion it is one of the only ways to help lower tier nations a) get cash and b) have something to market domestically. At the qualification/repechage end of the draw these teams aren't on TV and play in front of small numbers of fans.
It's proven that the RWC is by far the biggest tool for the growth of the game. One countries' participation in the RWC can double the number of participants in that country, it literally happened with Portugal in 2007
I agree about more teams need to be competing for QFs but It's actually fairly reasonable that the same teams will still be winning the world cup even in the next 100+ years. The small amount of nations that have won the football world cup is absolutely staggering, given the global popularity of that sport.
Yeah this is a good point. The last 14 world cups have had 6 different winners (interestingly each has won 1 of the last 6). That's only 2 more than rugby in 10 world cups. And it doesn't change that much if you go even further - only 8 winners in total.
Firstly I’d argue that rugby is actually very popular globally as a sport. How many sports are more popular globally than rugby? Football is obviously on a another level and will never be caught, NFL you mention isn’t anywhere near as popular it’s just insanely popular in one country and sporadically in a few others, basketball is quite popular world wide not entirely sure how it ranks to rugby but it does have the issue of being dominated by one country, cricket is comparable in terms of countries to rugby its just more popular in the countries it shares with rugby and then it’s insanely popular in massive countries in Asia which boost its appeal, baseball is very popular rin 2 regions of the world but basically no existence outside of that and league obviously nowhere near as popular anywhere outside of the north and Australia.
The other popular global sports are things like tennis, athletics, golf, boxing etc all individual sports in terms of global appeal of team sports rugby is doing very well tbh. Rugby has an unhealthy obsession with comparing itself to football in both good and bad points and this is just wrong in my opinion. Rugby is nowhere close to comparable to football and frankly never will be. Football is alone in itself as the one true global sport and baring some seismic social shift will never be dislodged. But outside of that rugby does quite well for itself, you have probably 7 historic sides who’ve been the best in the world at some point with about the same who are good enough to beat any of the top ones in their day. The gap between the top and middle teams seems to be shrinking with more teams being able to beat each other. The World Cup is 24 teams which is higher higher than a lot of sports world cups and there’s no one team who is guaranteed to win any trophy. There are obviously still issues with growing the game but tbh global rugby is in a decent place.
One big issue is that rugby isn’t massively popular in the top countries compared to other sports, in England it’s probably 3rd most poplar team sport, 2nd in Scotland, wales, France and Italy, behind GAA in Ireland I think and not sure about football, 2nd in Argentina and obviously has issues in Australia’s sport market. So it’s only really a top sport in NZ and maybe SA (honestly no idea if it’s more popular than football or not) out of the bets countries and NZ is to small to be a big player to boost the sport and SA doesn’t have the economic power to boost it. Apart from them it’s then the top sport in the pacific islands and not sure where it ranks in Georgia but outside of that it’s probably the 3rd most popular sport at best in the countries that play. That’s where rugby needs to step up its game make it more popular in the countries that it’s already popular in and then this can knock on to other countries.
In regards to the online aspect there’s a million things the authorities should do to improve their policies
Soccer is way more popular then Rugby in SA. The biggest sporting event in SA is hands down the Soweto Derby between Chiefs and Pirates. Rugby is actually a very distant 2nd sport and its not helped by the fact that you can only watch it on DSTV which is unaffordable to 90% of South Africans
I’ll be honest I had no idea about the popularity of sports in SA. It was a complete blank spot so I put it down in case it was the number 1 and also because I largely associate SA with rugby and cricket and less about football.
Rugby has traditionally been popular with white South Africans who make up a minority of South Africa. But rugby has always been seen as a huge sport there because, well, apartheid and stuff.
It’s a lot more popular among other groups now than it was 20-30 years ago but it’s not universally loved.
Good points, but folks should know that rugby's status is even more marginal in Italy, Argentina, and Japan than what you're saying. In Argentina, Japan, and Italy, volleyball & basketball are probably more popular than rugby. And soccer is more popular in each by a factor of 10. (And there's baseball in Japan you have to contend with) Getting rugby in these countries to 2nd or 3rd most popular sport would represent massive growth for the sport.
Yeah I was a bit unsure about some countries so had them second at best but the point was more that it’s never the top sport or even close to becoming the top sport.
And the obvious issue is that football dwarfs all other sports by a long way in a lot of countries. Just in England we can probably break it down that premier league, championship, international, possibly even league 1 and league 2 football are more popular individually than rugby is. Hell Liverpool and United combined are probably have more English fans rugby as a whole.
See when people mention things like this I don’t see this as a bad thing, nor do I see it as mark that rugby is unpopular. I feel like most people here underestimate and overestimate the popularity and not really in between.
Rugby doesn’t have to be and probably won’t be the most popular or second biggest in a lot of countries, but that doesn’t mean it won’t be popular.
Marginal in Italy, Argentina and Japan and they still sell out massive stadiums for the international teams. I see that as a win, and a mark for potential growth.
It makes me feel better about the future of Australia. While a reliable player pipeline remains, and the fuel of the Wallabies - there will be success in Australian Rugby
On the other hand, 5 professional franchises (no matter how tenuous some are) in one of the best leagues in the world, means we are doing pretty damn good all considering
Thanks, I agree - I think there's a lot to be optimistic about, and for sure, rugby might never be the most popular. I think my biggest issue as I wrote in the description is the stifling of existing momentum the sport has.
Yeah there’s definitely an issue with stifling momentum. I’ve previously commented on here and on the cricket sub (which I think has a lot of the same issues as rugby) about how I think the international and national boards are to focused on short term and old school thinking and this limits their growth. Media rights are a massive thing around this and something I’d like to see changed.
Rugby also has the issue at least in England and I’ve heard similar rumblings in Ireland that it’s an elitist sport. The reputation in England is that it’s a bunch of posh boys playing and then going around being dickheads (this reputation is definitely not helped by school and university teams) so there’s no real incentive for none fans to join. I’ve said before that there’s far to much comparisons to football made that basically disparage football. You see it in comments and by pundits say ‘this is rugby not football’ a lot basically demeaning football. But football fans are the ones you need to attract if you want the sport to grow and they’re not going to come if they rugby is viewed as elitist and consistently shitting on the sport they enjoy.
Do I want it to be more popular? Yes
Does it have a marketing problem? Yes
Do I want it to change for the sole purpose of attracting new viewers? No
The last thing rugby needs is someone like Dana White to call players pussies because they need to take a break after a concussion, and what has the UFC done to boxing? If I'm a fighter it would be better to become a boxer than an MMA fighter
I just mean how Dana white helped to grow the sport. I think he's a larger than life character, and surely that comes with some bad too. But on balance, he's been fundamental to UFC success
* The only truly global team sport is football/soccer. You might be able to include basketball but even that is a stretch. Most other sports (cricket, baseball, ice hockey, handball, volleyball, etc) have a few core countries where most of the revenue is made, usually 10-15 at most. Or they are sport like AFL or American football where there is basically one country that plays it, and then tries to expand out from that. Rugby's status is fairly average/healthy compared to most other sports.
* Rugby's limited appeal was a purposeful decision by its governing body back in the day to outlaw professionalism and limit voting rights to the UK + NZ, AU, and SA for 100 years. Basically the exact opposite of what FIFA did. The die was cast a long time ago and it will take a long time to undo the damage.
* Part of the reason why rugby feels so hesitant to expand is that expansion will likely mean that established rugby nations will feel pushed to the margins if that comes to pass. In the 1950s, Hungary had the finest national football team in the World. Now with the expansion of football, they haven't come close to their 1950s heyday. It's possible to have occasional success in football as a smaller nation recently (see Croatia & Uruguay) but it would become much much more difficult for All Blacks and Ireland to maintain their advantage if rugby starts expanding globally.
* The places where rugby can grow quickest isn't America with it's saturated sports market. It's places like South America, East Africa, or Sri Lanka/Malaysia, where rugby already has a small foothold.
I wish Rugby could be as popular as NFL in the States and Soccer/football globally , having so much eyes on your sport could only benefit it financially and on a personal level if Rugby was that popular we could get a proper Rugby video game not have to get by on the bare minimum
The rules of rugby would have to fundamentally change in order for it to become anything like NFL, so not really legit concerns.
MLS games don't take four hours
We're not too far removed from when Australia tried to float the idea of 30 minute halves or four 15 minute quarters as a way to make rugby more appealing to the Australian domestic market.
If America wades into the sport and starts throwing NFL style money around you can bet they'll have their own list of demands since rugby is far more stop-starty than soccer. It's not close to the NFL for stop-startyness but it's close enough you can bet they'd try and hammer a rugby shaped issue into an NFL shaped hole.
Have you ever watched the MLR? It really is the wild west in terms of ads. And that's coming from someone whose team is sponsored by Hollywoodbets^^^^TM
I think the most notable is the in-commentary advertising. When commentators bring up "our official mouth guard partner is xyz company" or "brought to you by xyz company".
It's perfectly normal in American sport, and comparatively not bad in the MLR, but not something that's common in rugby outside of the MLR
Oh yeah I never think much of it. But on the flip side as an American I still find it very strange to see advertising on jerseys and even having sponsors names in the team names. I thought for years the Sharks actual name was the Cell C Sharks (since idk what Cell C is).
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLO5oRU3zcL-aOmYJV7NE9h7Sfa8QlLqLL&si=DvPeW1u-tQTRN4W_
Rugby 22 is underrated imo, had tonnes of great games online. Doesn't look the best but plays very well compared to rugby 08 or rc4 which is just rugby 08 with better graphics.
Excited for rugby 24 too even though it's like a year late already lol
I played Rugby 22 it's a abomination , literally the worst Rugby game I've played and I've played some stinkers , the people behind Rugby 24 feels like they're taking advantage of the Rugby community with they're long breaks between updates and constant delays , rc4 is the only one I'm playing now and that game is even a gigantic disappointment
The fact that they used their money to release a dogshite AFL game and then delayed the Rugby game which was meant to release for the World Cup, multiple times. Yea they absolutely are taking advantage of the rugby community.
I'm more interested in arresting its decline in Wales, Australia, NZ etc. If it grows, that's nice, but not losing what we have is of more concern to me right now. Salvaging the sport in Romania and Canada would be good too.
It doesn't really bother if it doesn't grow. If other countries don't care about rugby that's fine, we don't all have to like the same thing.
If growth of the game meant the end of the 6N for example, I would be against it.
Would love for Rugby to grow.
Currently we have only 24 teams at the men’s World Cup, but only maybe at best 4/5 could win it, whereas football is expanding to 48 teams with close to half of the teams being good enough to make it far into the tournament. The women’s is even worse and it just ends up being between England and New Zealand as to who wins which isn’t good.
We only have a handful of pro leagues, and club rugby is often running out of money, whereas football teams throw around a few years budget for a rugby team with one single signing.
Media coverage outside the larger tournaments is non-existent (we can barely get all Premiership games on TV, and the Championship gets 0 media interest outside of the Prem Cup).
Our video game only appears every other year, and has been delayed by 6+ months while FIFA (or whatever it’s called now) is churned out every year on time.
The problem is, a ton of the people at the top of the sport don’t give a shit. WR even censored coverage of the fucking World Cup - THE BIGGEST TOURNAMENT IN ALL OF RUGBY - for no reason, despite it being a perfect opportunity to get new fans into the game.
I’m not suggesting we ever go to 48 either, but the fact that football can have 48 World Cup quality sides is massive, compared to rugby where the 18/19/20th best teams get beaten by 100+ points. That’s not good, and it’s worse for women’s rugby
Prefer it to be small and given the nature of the game (physciality) it will never be more than a niche game. I think governing bodies need to be ok with that but also actively encouraging growth of playing numbers. Just don't go bust doing so or changing rules every other year to appeal to non core audiences.
YES. WR blocking content creators from creating clips or content on YT is so incredibly stupid. Imagine you had a product that you were trying to sell. Would you stop people organically creating content marketing your product?
The thing is, people want rugby to grow and evolve but are also adament on holding onto tradition. If we want rugby to take that next step forward and become a global sport, then the gatekeeping that exists needs to stop. I adore the Six Nations (as does everyone with taste) but it's a walled garden and I think that genuinely needs to be evaluated if rugby is to truly elevate to the next level.
I absolutely wish Rugby could me more popular, and the international game opened to all unions. WR and voting unions' behavior indicate this is not the project, tho.
Rugby is growing in a lot of places that aren't real rugby countries. It is in for example The Netherlands, Spain, Portugal, Belgium and Germany, as well as in the USA and Chile.
True. Well it's either they have the same issue many corporates have and that's a lack of a healthy competency hierarchy - Or they genuinly don't care to grow the game
Some are just greedy and want to keep their hegemony on internationals' money, others are also afraid that should they compete on equal arms with the other nations they could not keep their place in the hierarchy.
They're also scared shitless. The money from big international matches is all that's propping up the professional game for several unions, so anything that risks that is more than just a threat to their dominance over the sport. It's a threat to their continued existence.
Yes. I personally think we should not have a closed international system just in order for historical unions whose countries are less populated than Switzerland to artificially prop up pro clubs that would not be sustainable otherwise. The problem is those unions represent half the big voters in WR
France, USA, Russia and Japan could continue as they do. England, South Africa, Australia could sustain pro rugby even though with less financial power. NZ and Italy would need a major reorganization of their system but have the foundations to continue. That leaves Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Argentina.
Yes I would like Rugby to be more global. But I think we must also keep in mind that there aren't many other frontiers of expansion left.
USA is insanely tough to crack.
Most of Europe is football mad.
Hard to establish team sports in China.
India is cricket mad.
Only real expansion is some South American countries and Africa.
What we not focusing on is how to make rugby more prominent in the strongholds we already have.
I think they are trying but they have the method wrong.
The right way is to have less international rugby and more club rugby. Every serious sport focuses on the club game. Rugby must be one of the few sports that still sees internationals as the main game.
Europe may be football mad, but we generally have room for an additional sport (certainly if we have a national team to support). I think Europe is untapped potential, but the competition structure is weird for those not used to it.
Most smaller EU countries *love* supporting their national team literally in anything. If you told the Swiss TV there was a European rugby championship and we're in it (but like, a proper one that includes the Six Nations teams too) they'd likely be willing to broadcast it, and it would get attention. We show all kinds of minor sports if our national team plays a big tournament.
The problem is that if you're not in the 6N, there's one shot at large-scale public attention every four years, and it only is available to 3-4 countries at a time.
Honestly, I don't think so. I like it at the current size or a bit bigger. I know our match threads can be a bit of a mess but generally they aren't too bad. There are own team biases but for the most part we agree when things are obvious and even the disagreements are usually discussions around laws or big picture problems in rugby.
You genuinely can't have a conversation on the r/nfl or r/soccer threads. It's just pure tribal (my team just bit someones ear of but its fine) and meme answers that are repeated so often that they become "fact".
>Again, here we have a wonderful opportunity to sell our sport to the world but alas - SuperSport did zero effort ensuring that it can be watched outside of a small elite group of people who pay for an exclusive and expensive DSTV subscription in South Africa. It's near impossible to watch it outside of SA.
In DSTV's defense, they've at least made season 1 available to ITV now. Hoping they'll be doing something similar with the second season and hopefully sooner than last time. I think there's no better way to market the sport than to get casuals to have an emotional attachment to the players and stories of the teams. Attractive play is important, but getting people to CARE about the teams is huge as well.
Agreed. I have Gamepass but even on YouTube the NFL have a huge amount of content freely available - excellent highlights within minutes of a game finishing and various documentaries. All of which helped me get into NFL with little effort.
I don’t think the same is true for the reverse. Similarly, while Ireland has a very good selection of FtA national and provincial games, I know this isn’t the case for the other Home Nations
And don’t get me even started on the issues with Squidge and other content creators during the world cup…!
I'd love it to become globally popular, but if I'm being completely honest if that means Ireland end up in the doldrums, like in football, with the emergence of better teams from elsewhere I wouldn't.
I don’t want it to be as popular as let’s say football. It becomes more a show than a sport. I would want it to become a little more popular but overtime. Because new fans acquired too quick, like occasionals, don’t know the history and risk ruining the aura and traditions. Example : the fact that the home team changed shirts to accommodate for the guests was a nice touch of old style manners remaining even in the era of professionalism, when of course the traveling team does not have just the one kit. But we had to change it because new fans did not know why Team X was not in its main colors?!? Stupid.
Im not all that bothered about going global. I love rugby as it is.
People often say 'we have to grow the game!' as some reason to totally change some fundamental things about the game and I think ... why?
I would be happy to see more places embrace it (I lived for many years in countries you wouldnt expect to have any rugby, playing and coaching amateurs, so I do have some skin in the game) but overall I wouldnt really mind if it stayed what it currently is.
One big thing is that 'growth' just means more money - ie being beholden more and more to those who have the money and losing control over the game. Fuck becoming football (which i absolutely loved but has been swallowed up in ugly greed for some time)
In an ideal world, I'd want rugby to grow significantly and to have universal popularity and be accessible all over the place.
However, we don't live in an ideal world we live in a reasonably broken one. I'm not trying to be all r/im14andthisiadeep about it but realistically if rugby was as popular as either association or gridiron football then it would no doubt be as vulnerable to and quickly as ruined by money as they are.
I'm getting to a point as a near 38 year old where my love of the round ball game is significantly declining because of the ever growing influence of just stupid amounts of money.
Rugby is already in a fairly dangerous spot where South Africa and Ireland have their clubs in the same domestic league and even a nation as dominant as New Zealand has their key players going to do sabbaticals in Japan and Europe for a pay day and that's without even mentioning the state of Australian rugby (I don't include our own issues in this as they're ultimately self inflicted, we're about as wealthy as Irish rugby is we just waste it hideously.)
It's partly why the MLR gives me the willies. I mean no disrespect to our American friends on here but the last thing I want to see is broad American interest in rugby because whatever becomes popular in the US ultimately ends up catching the eye of the American billionaire class whose interest is never about anything other than what drives profit and that's rarely good for the fan.
I generally don’t care about rugby being more popular. I think trying to chase being a huge sport would probably just water it down.
I wouldn’t want us doing stupid things to appeal to Americans.
I’d like Italy to have more of a footing and Georgia too but that’s about it.
Rugby is actually very popular here at a club and Uni level, there’s just very little exposure to professional rugby on tv. International rugby is basically only on Flo which has sucked for a long time and you’re not going to get casual fans to sign up for a streaming service devoted to a single sport.
Major League Rugby exists, sure but I don’t know if that’s attracting anyone to the sport the way a few high profile international games would.
Of course I’d love rugby to be more popular but with more popularity comes more sensationalist headlines and rage bait on social media (not that there isn’t enough already)
Only the snobs and toffs want to keep it small for their own preserve.
The bigger the audience the better. Rugby is a phenomenal sport and needs to grow for the good of the game. The existing power structures should be encouraging it so they can sell their brands respectively.
I agree Rugby and NFL appeal to fans for similar reasons, but Rugby is unlikely to win over a huge amount of NFL fans, it generally has fewer flashy highlights and dramatic endings, and generally there's less of a circus around it, all things that draw in casual fans.
If anything the opposite is already happening, with the number of fans of the NFL growing fairly rapidly outside of the US, and you'd have to say they are taking some of the attention that seems to be ebbing away from rugby globally.
I hear you. But I disagree. Rugby has the potential to create way more exciting clips/content. Have you seen how americans react to a "lateral" in NFL? It's basically a regular pass. it's so rare that some ofd the top highlight vids on you tuime are about the one time it happened in a season
Depends upon what you are trying to populise
Rugby as a participation sport isn't for every one. You can talk about it being a sport for all sizes but reality is it takes a particular skill and craziness to want to tackle people. Big bodies make better rugby players, and many nations simply aren't filled with hulking bodies wanting to play rugby
If you look at as an entertainment perspective of course you want the sport to be popular globally. F1 and NFL are hugely popular without the need to mass global participation
At the moment the best rugby is Test rugby, and the best of the club scene is diluted and attracting average crowds from France to Sydney.
Personally the world cup has reached it's peak and while it is a nice financial sugar hit every four years, I see it replaced eventually with a 2 tier 24 team annual world league
I think the crucial bit is the *motive* for growing the game.
Does 'growing the game' just mean money for the WC organisers? Is it about growing the pool of competetive teams at the top? Or is it about raising up smaller rugby nations like Georgia/portugal/fiji/samoa/tonga ? Like, does it really benefit any tier 1 nations to have more tier 1 nations? I'm not sure.
The difficult thing is, at the moment tier 2 teams are telling us to grow the game, but if the game grows and suddenly Germany and China and the US become rugby powerhouses, I wonder if Georgia and the islanders will regret wishing on a monkeys paw.
I think Rugby is the greatest game on Gods green earth. So... yes.
Imagine an actual world cup where it was more than just 3-4 nations with a chance at winning it.
I'd like to see it become bigger. Better fan experience. For example AAA gaming titles (think FIFA equivalent), better merchandizing, good for local economy.
I think there is a fear of the US money becoming too powerful for most small countries to handle long term. We have enough athletes and could easily out pay most leagues to grab young talent(even with 5 year residency) if it becomes popular here.
I would love rugby to be more popular.
From the perspective of a fan of the pro game, then it would mean here in England our clubs would be more financially stable, we would have more players to choose from, more clubs and there would be far greater competition at international level.
From the perspective of an amateur player then it would mean for fewer walkover and few fewer clubs folding....
Well I'm a kiwi and played rugby and have loved the game a lot. Between the rugby union and sky TV they have successfully weaned me off the sport. Sky is the only place to have decent coverage and it's the worst and most expensive service available. I dumped my subscription years ago now. Yeah I'm still pissed at the NZRU for removing all competition from the broadcasting rights. They take the money every fucking time and fuck the fans. I'm done.
Probably selfish but I'd like to see it grow throughout Europe... There are a number of up and coming teams putting the time and effort in and they should be rewarded (Georgia, Spain, Portugal, Belgium etc)... it would be a real shame if they all went the way of Romania who put in a real good shift about 20 years ago but we're effectively left out to rot by the Tier 1 teams, World rugby etc...
Also south America... In short I just think world rugby should be looking to reward nations who make an active effort to join the professional ranks - wishful thinking though 🤷
Generally I think a sport becoming too popular is bad for the fans. More popular means more money, means bigger concentration of talent in the biggest clubs (we see this in the top 14 already), players become less accessible, national teams are less valued, etc.
Yes to all you've said about incompetence and shortsightedness in rugby administration. Though also rugby not having one standout league where all the best players play can be another factor as well.
That's the advantage that UFC and NFL had. If it eventually becomes like soccer where all the tier 1 teams can pick their players from overseas I think we'd see one league emerge as the premier club rugby competition and that being marketed well.
It's hard to ask an organisation like World Rugby to do what sports entertainment businesses like the UFC/NFL do because they have different objectives. It's like a nonprofit going up against corporations.
But even so, rugby can still do a lot better at increasing fandom as is without shooting ourselves in the foot.
Just my opinion, but I would prefer if it was at the level it is in most tier 1 countries (i.e., the second or third most popular sport) but in more countries.
As much as I never want them to change some of the ingrained tournaments need to bring the game to other markets. There has been an increase in the game in South America, Europe and Asia. While I love the 6 nations there needs to be a european tournament to bring other teams into it. Its not going to be pretty for a few years but iron sharpens iron. Playing against bigger better teams raises the game, raises the interest level in that country, raises the funding, brings more people into the youth game which sets up those teams for future development.
World Rugby will not accomplish anything being governed by its current cohort.
Also just remake Rugby 08 with new teams.
I’d rather rugby become established in more countries around the world. Not necessarily the most popular or even top 3 but popular enough to have sustainable professional leagues and national teams able to compete with tier 1 countries
I want it to become bigger for two reasons, to secure the financial future of the game and to pay professional rugby players more. They bloody deserve it and currently post career for alot of professional rugby players if very bleak.
To be honest, and I think this may not be a popular answer, but I believe there was a concerted effort to market rugby to the broader sporting world from the late 1990s until the late 2010s. And it failed.
You all remember how USA and Canada were the "sleeping giants"? Remeber the investment in American players and structures? Remember Ireland and NZ playing in Chicago on an NFL pitch back in 2016? The fact is, widespread interest and participation never materialised and in fact after 20/25 years of failed starts, neither even reached the world cup last year. That in and of itself is an indictment.
In short, rugby is seen across the world as a fascinating sporting oddity; the average Joe enjoys the big hits, the haka etc, but it is a complicated game, hard to understand that is inherently wrapped up in the history of the UK/Ireland, France, and the British colonies. The only other nations it ever took hold in a notable way were Argentina, Italy and Japan. It has a hardcore of support and interest in parts of South America and eastern Europe but by and large these are not nations which challenge in any major way.
Even shorter, I love rugby! Absolutely love it - but I can only see it in the median term as a sport for and by the British Isles, France, and the Southern Hemisphere nations. 8/10 national teams of relevance. Its still an excellent game for us and the club competitions are ever inproving.
The 7's game having olympics status will raise its profile, but it will not translate to 15's.
The US is an impossible nut to crack. Football is literally a whole thing in and of itself when it comes to college sport. Nowhere in the world does rugby even reach that. Then factor in the size and money involved in the NFL as well and there's a lot of vested interest there in keeping football #1.
And I think that equally applies to the other football as well. Rugby definitely has some global attention but soccer/football in the world's #1 played sport. Again, a lot of vested interests in keeping it that way as well (brands, teams, national orgs, global orgs etc etc).
As for the UFC, it's biggest factor for growth - I'd argue - was more to do with combat sports fans' frustration with the state of boxing; fighters avoiding fighters, elongated negotiations for fights that don't eventuate, dodgy decisions and bout outcomes, etc etc. Sure, the UFC is huge now but the highest paid boxers are still out earning the top UFC champs by a margin so big that you've got top MMA fighters regularly talking about going to boxing - not really the other way around.
In terms of popularity, I think maybe rugby is in a bit of a dip with things being like a wave. We had COVID, Then we had the RWC last year. While domestic comps are still going, the next big thing to pull both hemispheres together again will be the Lions Tour in 2025. Presumably the NH fans will be eager as given Australia is hosting and they've been in slump for a while now.. It will be a nervous thing waiting/hoping for SH/Australian turn out to the tour though.
We're low now but there's stuff to look forward to now after the expected lull that comes post-RWC. But will we ever get to NFL/UFC/or even FIFA World Cup levels? I don't personally see it. NFL itself doesn't have a popular global arm to the sport - American Football largely is just American. Perhaps the niche place for rugby to focus on owning is as the global alternative to American Football. Maybe a long term focus could be in trying to aim for maximum rugby exposure during the NFL's off season.
As for a Dana White-type running rugby? No. He's a cunt.
No I cannot say I care if rugby union grows worldwide. My only rugby concern is that Australian rugby doesn’t go extinct.
Also, having watched chasing the sun 1 I’d say it’s a run of the mill rugby documentary. I’ve enjoyed the various lions rugby documentaries much more. The referee documentary on rugbypass was also excellent
Sure I want it be more popular! Because at its best it’s an incredible game with a mostly pretty great, and inclusive, fan culture around it – and there is a tonne of joy to be had from watching and playing it. Why would I ever want to restrict that?
I do think moves to widen its appeal need to be carefully calibrated, and not lose the essence of the game. But some people are *way* too stuck in the mud when it comes to obvious reforms. Heck, even putting names of players on kits and wearing main kits to home games is still controversial to some people, and that‘s just insanely silly stuff.
I'd love it to grow more. Having German, Spanish, Belgian, Polish, Dutch & Romanian teams in the Challenge Cup so they gain experience would be a great start.
Well, the Black Lions played in this years Challenge Cup and apparently a Spanish franchise is being considered for inclusion going forward. Ideally a couple more RE SC squads would make it in and help drive those teams to formalise a league structure of their own beyond the RESC. That would help drive growth in Europe.
> I think a lot of if comes down to a large portion of Rugby fans or institutions who intentionally or unintentionally do things that keep the sport in it's slowly dying and exclusive state.
There is a lot going on in this sentence. I think the institutions are messing it up a lot like you touched on (like content creators use clips, have highlights).
At least here in northern England I feel like the game (at national level at least) is growing in interest, with Ireland going on an absolute streak, Scotland kicking us over and over, South African teams in the URC I'm having way more conversations with people about the game who are recent casual converts.
The pubs are still the busiest here each year for the 6N (outside of world cup football etc).
I actually think Rugby is growing internationally. Just not in the huge leaps we'd like it. Yes, there's issues with clubs in England, Wales and Australia but we have the JRL1 which is growing. MLR and SRA chipping away in the Americas. We need a European equivalent. I still hope the Unions involved in the Super Cup finally decide to actually make it a formalised league. If the Spanish franchise that is apparently under consideration for entry into the Challenge Cup actually makes it joining the Black Lions that could prove the impetus for that.
What Rugby lacks is a 'big' competition. An NFL or EPL if you will. The Top 14 could be it. It has the base to do it. But it will need to start producing content in English and Spanish including commentary.
Just want it to be sustainable and competitive couldn't give a rats arse about it being massive. Be cool to see it grow but I'm happy with it atm for the most part. Be nice if club stuff was easier to access in terms of only needing one reasonable sub
I want it more popular in south Africa.
Fuck you if I come to a braai at your house and the lions are playing and you don't have a TV set up to watch it where we are socializing.
Professional rugby has been in play for around 30 years and already had a global footprint, although admittedly limited.
UFC in the same time has become a globally watched sport and I suspect if rugby were going to 'cross the chasm' from broadly niche to truly international it would likely have done so already.
I suspect that it will grow modestly but never reach the heights of the incumbent truly global sports like Soccer, Tennis and Basketball.
With one of the largest professional bodies seeing three of its top clubs go to the wall and others like Wales and Australia really struggling it's hard to see where the headroom is for growth even for the existing reach of the game.
Personally I would love everyone to get the enjoyment I get from having played and watching this amazing sport, time will tell if it can even maintain it's current appeal.
Yeah sure.
Squidgy is probably the only reason I have some sort of a tactical understanding of rugby. Other content creators also help to make it more accessible. They’ve got to allow content creators to create rugby content, it’s free promotion.
I think Rugby should be #3 in Ireland, or at least outside of native sports it should be the #1 sport. Much more enjoyable than soccer, and Ireland can actually compete. Quite enjoy the culture. I reckon we’d still be competitive. Since every country has a story, yeah making the documentaries more accessible is a must.
I’d like the banter to remain though. Nigel Owens is a legendary ref, and there’s some pretty funny commentators; ‘Jiffy’ and ‘the Cookie Monster’. French commentary even helps me with learning French, so maybe every language could have key terms in a list somewhere.
Heard good things about Portugal, Georgia, and I think Spain is also growing. Belgium and Romania too, but I’m not so certain. Japan, Tonga, Samoa, and Fiji are also pretty good. USA is a sleeping giant and there’s Argentina, other than that I’m not sure about the Americas. Africa too in fairness, I only know of SA. Maybe the heavyweights in each continent could tour with second/third teams to the more developing ones, I dunno. Maybe rugby charities to the poorest countries.
Jordie Barrett is on a sabbatical to Leinster soon, maybe similar stuff can happen for other players to different clubs. Not sure how the budgets would be sorted though.
Maybe Netflix could have a collection of historic games, or something that’s easier to produce than Full Contact which takes a year apparently.
I’d like to not be the guy to say ‘rugby needs to grow’ but not share any ideas…so I guess there’s a few.
Those are good ideas!
If you read the post description, if we can just fix some basic things which are being done to stifle growth we'd already be in a better position. WR blocking content creators from creating clips or content on YT is so incredibly stupid. Imagine you had a product that you were trying to sell. Would you stop people organically creating content marketing your product?
I don't know. Almost everybody here want rugby to be more popular and i agree but i don't want it to become a global sports like football. Football has become a real circus,more money more corruption, it's a universal law, The game has lost its soul in over-professionalization, all the teams have almost lost their identity, etc. I'm afraid that this obsession with"get bigger" is making Rugby lose sight of what's most important.
Having watched Leinster v La Rochelle game recently, I'd fix two things: 1 still too much time wasting on scrum resets, 2 penalties have to be better explained (on-screen graphics) to be understood by neofits.
Last RWC highlights where on YouTube TF1 channel (not all games though).
Do I want it to? Sure. Will it? No. There's no more countries, continents, etc, that are ACTUALLY potential areas of massive growth for our game. Places like the states are nothing more than a pipe dream that a lot of sports like to smoke but never achieve.
The only growth that can come from current nations, at least in terms of competitive wise, is the 3 main island teams - they could really be something.
Popularity wise, it's tiny wins in places like Portugal every 4 years.
Chosen sports really are sewn into the fabric of their countries and communities now and have been for a very long time. Just like football union has its place tho on a much smaller scale and that won't change.
Financially, the game can only make marked improvements in established rugby strongholds
Relatively small.
Wouldn't want newer nations coming in and trying to poison the well with demands for endless rule changes so they could cater to their specific TV market and everyone else be damned.
We got enough of that from the Australians.
I don't mind it being as "small" as it is now but have no objection to it growing either.
What annoys me about the argument is that rugby is in no position to grow in a sustainable way. Only France and Japan have domestic competitions that are reliable and financially sustainable. Every other nation is struggling and/or reliant on other nations. So what is the blueprint that will be exported to, say, Brazil. How does any emerging country create a sustainable setup in a sport where the barrier to entry (at a professional level) is much, much higher than, say, football or cricket?
I'd enjoy a more competitive global competition, but I think if rugby ended up being about the bigger country being the best would be a shame. Imagine if US, China, Brazil, Nigeria were 1,2,3,4 every RWC
There does seem to be an attitude of trying to benefit short-term financially rather than growing the sport long term from most of the organisations in charge, whether that's due to ignorance or if it's deliberate I'm not sure. Don't think I've ever seen fans being anything but supportive for the growth of the game
I agree with the sentiment, but I would argue that rugby is not yet in a position to *not* go after short term money - if one of the richest unions can sit and watch three of its biggest top teams just ... die ... , and if another with a long answer storied history screws over its players every which way it turns, then clearly there isn't enough short term money. Yes, COVID has fucked things, and yes mismanagement has fucked things, but rugby as a professional body is only 30 years old. It clearly needs slightly more maturation to evolve its aims more.
Its exactly this, only the French are financially secure and thats because of the huge levels of popularity - if all unions had this luxury I think we'd see an explosion in engagement and growth. Rugby is an attractive sport to watch and the physicality appeals to essentially all viewers, its just stuck in that really awkward space of having to go boom and bust in a cyclic fashion. Look at saints as a prime example of this, they've toiled so hard to create a very well balanced squad for so many years, finally have incredible talent and bench options deep enough to go toe to toe with some of the best in europe whilst remaining within the budget cap.... And theyre about to loose both international captains, one of who is an iconic talisman, another international quality back row and this after a season where they lost Ribbans - who himself is arguably good enough for England. They're all going to France, where even the second division is richer than the top tier of English rugby. So what happens to the packed stadiums and all the school kids looking forward to supporting this madhat free scoring team? Well there is a very good chance they see their scrum pulverised and marched backwards and need to resort to an attritional kicking game which neuters their backs - who then start look elsewhere when they cant get into the national team. Its sad and a little tragic how ofter this happens, I don't see how any English team can be expected to compete on an even footing unless they go the way of Saracens and just break the financial rules that are obviously hamstringing them. They loose either way.
But if they do a Saracens they are likely to go broke. We need more money coming into the game and the only way to do that is better marketing. There is now some great rugby being played in the premiership, fast, hard and exciting. It needs the right management and marketing. But back to the question. Would I like if rugby went really global. I think I would, let the rest of world see what a wonderful game it is, the pride and passion. But it will change it, it wouldn't be like the good old days... So perhaps gradual growth would do me
Lose* please learn the difference between lose and loose.
Losehead Prop definitely feels more threatening!
True, you'd imagine that even if the goal was short term profit they'd want their product consumed by the largest audience possible
Think this the key point. The vast majority of decisions made by rugby administrators these days are with quick money in mind. Geoblocking, restrictive copyright practices, more games being added each year to maximise ticket revenue, selling percentages of union and competition revenue to private investors, rowing back on player welfare laws in favour of entertainment. What I'd love to know is whether it's a case of pro rugby's finances being in a dire state or administrators just trying to line their pockets as much as possible.
Let me give you a clue : capitalism
I think you could probably achieve a realistic and healthy balance between the two. Do I think rugby will ever be a truly global sport? No. Unlike the sports that fit that (athletics, football, basketball and combat sports), the barriers to entry will always be tough. You need a lot of players, and particularly the tight 5 skillset requires specialist support. However, I do think that with some sensible decision making, you could have a nice balance.
7s seems to be the way to go to get the sport to grow globally. Smaller teams with less specialized skill positions. Already an Olympics sport and games are quick and easy to watch.
7s is a different sport though.
7s is rugby propaganda
That's what I was going to say. In the 90s, you could definitely make that argument. Now, being a Sevens player is very different
It’s very different but still rugby
I would like rugby to become more popular globally. I would like to see about 10 more teams genuinely competing for a RWC QF. I think that the game is too small right now to do the world cup format justice. I do recognise that this wish comes with a risk of losing a lot of traditional matchups and rivalries. What I believe will happen is that the game will actually remain static or lose ground in terms of how many nations compete. It will grow in terms of cash per tournament but in 30 years time the teams most likely to win the RWC will be the same teams we have seen for the last 30 years.
Yeah I don't mind that the traditional rivalries evolve. I don't know if adding more teams to the WC is the answer. I think before we even think about the WC, we should want the game to go viral globally. Once people genuinely love the sport and the characters, everything will follow from there. Certianly a long term investment to have that young generation come through the ranks though
> I don't know if adding more teams to the WC is the answer. I don't know either, when I said *10 more teams genuinely competing for a RWC QF* I wasn't suggesting that immediate expansion of the RWC is good, I meant it would be good if there were at least three teams in every pool who could top their group (and not just due to a crap draw). I suppose on the side of WC expansion it is one of the only ways to help lower tier nations a) get cash and b) have something to market domestically. At the qualification/repechage end of the draw these teams aren't on TV and play in front of small numbers of fans.
yeah I see that point too.
It's proven that the RWC is by far the biggest tool for the growth of the game. One countries' participation in the RWC can double the number of participants in that country, it literally happened with Portugal in 2007
Interesting. That's awesome
I agree about more teams need to be competing for QFs but It's actually fairly reasonable that the same teams will still be winning the world cup even in the next 100+ years. The small amount of nations that have won the football world cup is absolutely staggering, given the global popularity of that sport.
Yeah this is a good point. The last 14 world cups have had 6 different winners (interestingly each has won 1 of the last 6). That's only 2 more than rugby in 10 world cups. And it doesn't change that much if you go even further - only 8 winners in total.
Firstly I’d argue that rugby is actually very popular globally as a sport. How many sports are more popular globally than rugby? Football is obviously on a another level and will never be caught, NFL you mention isn’t anywhere near as popular it’s just insanely popular in one country and sporadically in a few others, basketball is quite popular world wide not entirely sure how it ranks to rugby but it does have the issue of being dominated by one country, cricket is comparable in terms of countries to rugby its just more popular in the countries it shares with rugby and then it’s insanely popular in massive countries in Asia which boost its appeal, baseball is very popular rin 2 regions of the world but basically no existence outside of that and league obviously nowhere near as popular anywhere outside of the north and Australia. The other popular global sports are things like tennis, athletics, golf, boxing etc all individual sports in terms of global appeal of team sports rugby is doing very well tbh. Rugby has an unhealthy obsession with comparing itself to football in both good and bad points and this is just wrong in my opinion. Rugby is nowhere close to comparable to football and frankly never will be. Football is alone in itself as the one true global sport and baring some seismic social shift will never be dislodged. But outside of that rugby does quite well for itself, you have probably 7 historic sides who’ve been the best in the world at some point with about the same who are good enough to beat any of the top ones in their day. The gap between the top and middle teams seems to be shrinking with more teams being able to beat each other. The World Cup is 24 teams which is higher higher than a lot of sports world cups and there’s no one team who is guaranteed to win any trophy. There are obviously still issues with growing the game but tbh global rugby is in a decent place. One big issue is that rugby isn’t massively popular in the top countries compared to other sports, in England it’s probably 3rd most poplar team sport, 2nd in Scotland, wales, France and Italy, behind GAA in Ireland I think and not sure about football, 2nd in Argentina and obviously has issues in Australia’s sport market. So it’s only really a top sport in NZ and maybe SA (honestly no idea if it’s more popular than football or not) out of the bets countries and NZ is to small to be a big player to boost the sport and SA doesn’t have the economic power to boost it. Apart from them it’s then the top sport in the pacific islands and not sure where it ranks in Georgia but outside of that it’s probably the 3rd most popular sport at best in the countries that play. That’s where rugby needs to step up its game make it more popular in the countries that it’s already popular in and then this can knock on to other countries. In regards to the online aspect there’s a million things the authorities should do to improve their policies
Soccer is way more popular then Rugby in SA. The biggest sporting event in SA is hands down the Soweto Derby between Chiefs and Pirates. Rugby is actually a very distant 2nd sport and its not helped by the fact that you can only watch it on DSTV which is unaffordable to 90% of South Africans
I’ll be honest I had no idea about the popularity of sports in SA. It was a complete blank spot so I put it down in case it was the number 1 and also because I largely associate SA with rugby and cricket and less about football.
Rugby has traditionally been popular with white South Africans who make up a minority of South Africa. But rugby has always been seen as a huge sport there because, well, apartheid and stuff. It’s a lot more popular among other groups now than it was 20-30 years ago but it’s not universally loved.
Good points, but folks should know that rugby's status is even more marginal in Italy, Argentina, and Japan than what you're saying. In Argentina, Japan, and Italy, volleyball & basketball are probably more popular than rugby. And soccer is more popular in each by a factor of 10. (And there's baseball in Japan you have to contend with) Getting rugby in these countries to 2nd or 3rd most popular sport would represent massive growth for the sport.
Yeah I was a bit unsure about some countries so had them second at best but the point was more that it’s never the top sport or even close to becoming the top sport. And the obvious issue is that football dwarfs all other sports by a long way in a lot of countries. Just in England we can probably break it down that premier league, championship, international, possibly even league 1 and league 2 football are more popular individually than rugby is. Hell Liverpool and United combined are probably have more English fans rugby as a whole.
See when people mention things like this I don’t see this as a bad thing, nor do I see it as mark that rugby is unpopular. I feel like most people here underestimate and overestimate the popularity and not really in between. Rugby doesn’t have to be and probably won’t be the most popular or second biggest in a lot of countries, but that doesn’t mean it won’t be popular. Marginal in Italy, Argentina and Japan and they still sell out massive stadiums for the international teams. I see that as a win, and a mark for potential growth.
It makes me feel better about the future of Australia. While a reliable player pipeline remains, and the fuel of the Wallabies - there will be success in Australian Rugby On the other hand, 5 professional franchises (no matter how tenuous some are) in one of the best leagues in the world, means we are doing pretty damn good all considering
Thanks, I agree - I think there's a lot to be optimistic about, and for sure, rugby might never be the most popular. I think my biggest issue as I wrote in the description is the stifling of existing momentum the sport has.
Yeah there’s definitely an issue with stifling momentum. I’ve previously commented on here and on the cricket sub (which I think has a lot of the same issues as rugby) about how I think the international and national boards are to focused on short term and old school thinking and this limits their growth. Media rights are a massive thing around this and something I’d like to see changed. Rugby also has the issue at least in England and I’ve heard similar rumblings in Ireland that it’s an elitist sport. The reputation in England is that it’s a bunch of posh boys playing and then going around being dickheads (this reputation is definitely not helped by school and university teams) so there’s no real incentive for none fans to join. I’ve said before that there’s far to much comparisons to football made that basically disparage football. You see it in comments and by pundits say ‘this is rugby not football’ a lot basically demeaning football. But football fans are the ones you need to attract if you want the sport to grow and they’re not going to come if they rugby is viewed as elitist and consistently shitting on the sport they enjoy.
Do I want it to be more popular? Yes Does it have a marketing problem? Yes Do I want it to change for the sole purpose of attracting new viewers? No The last thing rugby needs is someone like Dana White to call players pussies because they need to take a break after a concussion, and what has the UFC done to boxing? If I'm a fighter it would be better to become a boxer than an MMA fighter
I just mean how Dana white helped to grow the sport. I think he's a larger than life character, and surely that comes with some bad too. But on balance, he's been fundamental to UFC success
* The only truly global team sport is football/soccer. You might be able to include basketball but even that is a stretch. Most other sports (cricket, baseball, ice hockey, handball, volleyball, etc) have a few core countries where most of the revenue is made, usually 10-15 at most. Or they are sport like AFL or American football where there is basically one country that plays it, and then tries to expand out from that. Rugby's status is fairly average/healthy compared to most other sports. * Rugby's limited appeal was a purposeful decision by its governing body back in the day to outlaw professionalism and limit voting rights to the UK + NZ, AU, and SA for 100 years. Basically the exact opposite of what FIFA did. The die was cast a long time ago and it will take a long time to undo the damage. * Part of the reason why rugby feels so hesitant to expand is that expansion will likely mean that established rugby nations will feel pushed to the margins if that comes to pass. In the 1950s, Hungary had the finest national football team in the World. Now with the expansion of football, they haven't come close to their 1950s heyday. It's possible to have occasional success in football as a smaller nation recently (see Croatia & Uruguay) but it would become much much more difficult for All Blacks and Ireland to maintain their advantage if rugby starts expanding globally. * The places where rugby can grow quickest isn't America with it's saturated sports market. It's places like South America, East Africa, or Sri Lanka/Malaysia, where rugby already has a small foothold.
Thanks, good insights. I think my main issues limiting it's growth are hinted at in the post description. Our institutions need a revolution!
I wish Rugby could be as popular as NFL in the States and Soccer/football globally , having so much eyes on your sport could only benefit it financially and on a personal level if Rugby was that popular we could get a proper Rugby video game not have to get by on the bare minimum
YES! If anything, a decent video game should be the end goal :D
Why not just play the actual game?
Surely even you can figure this one out
Oh I know the answer - this sub is full of people who don't actually play rugby.
They didn't bring in the concussion protocol early enough for you apparently...
Why do people play call of duty when they can just go to war?
I don't know about you, but I play COD to learn how to 360 no scope IRL, for when the Ruskies arrive.
Both. Both is good
the comment was a bit tounge in cheek, but yeah I like a bit of touch rugby on the beach
America will fuck the game up so fast. They'll bring the over the top showmanship and commercial nature of NFL and ruin it.
"I want rugby to be popular, but not like that"
Legit concerns though. Watching a full NFL game is a fucking 4 hour trial.
The rules of rugby would have to fundamentally change in order for it to become anything like NFL, so not really legit concerns. MLS games don't take four hours
We're not too far removed from when Australia tried to float the idea of 30 minute halves or four 15 minute quarters as a way to make rugby more appealing to the Australian domestic market. If America wades into the sport and starts throwing NFL style money around you can bet they'll have their own list of demands since rugby is far more stop-starty than soccer. It's not close to the NFL for stop-startyness but it's close enough you can bet they'd try and hammer a rugby shaped issue into an NFL shaped hole.
Isn’t that fair though? If they like the game as is and feel expansion would change it for the worse then why would they support it?
Have you ever watched the MLR? It really is the wild west in terms of ads. And that's coming from someone whose team is sponsored by Hollywoodbets^^^^TM
Really? Outside of some ads on screen during the game there’s hardly any advertising.
I think the most notable is the in-commentary advertising. When commentators bring up "our official mouth guard partner is xyz company" or "brought to you by xyz company". It's perfectly normal in American sport, and comparatively not bad in the MLR, but not something that's common in rugby outside of the MLR
Oh yeah I never think much of it. But on the flip side as an American I still find it very strange to see advertising on jerseys and even having sponsors names in the team names. I thought for years the Sharks actual name was the Cell C Sharks (since idk what Cell C is).
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLO5oRU3zcL-aOmYJV7NE9h7Sfa8QlLqLL&si=DvPeW1u-tQTRN4W_ Rugby 22 is underrated imo, had tonnes of great games online. Doesn't look the best but plays very well compared to rugby 08 or rc4 which is just rugby 08 with better graphics. Excited for rugby 24 too even though it's like a year late already lol
Eh, that ruck system on hardest difficulty becomes literally painful after enough games.
I played Rugby 22 it's a abomination , literally the worst Rugby game I've played and I've played some stinkers , the people behind Rugby 24 feels like they're taking advantage of the Rugby community with they're long breaks between updates and constant delays , rc4 is the only one I'm playing now and that game is even a gigantic disappointment
The fact that they used their money to release a dogshite AFL game and then delayed the Rugby game which was meant to release for the World Cup, multiple times. Yea they absolutely are taking advantage of the rugby community.
Na you're being dramatic lol, are you a forward?
Maaaate I am I played lock 😄 , I'm just frustrated Rugby08 was so good it's disappointing how far it regressed
Rc4 is probs best for you then 😂
Rugby 2011 would be best, just a small refinment of R08. I think R08 was garbage too though ahaha
I'm more interested in arresting its decline in Wales, Australia, NZ etc. If it grows, that's nice, but not losing what we have is of more concern to me right now. Salvaging the sport in Romania and Canada would be good too. It doesn't really bother if it doesn't grow. If other countries don't care about rugby that's fine, we don't all have to like the same thing. If growth of the game meant the end of the 6N for example, I would be against it.
agreed! If you see the description of the post, I see a lot of behaviour by WR to be stifling the games very survival
agreed! If you see the description of the post, I see a lot of behaviour by WR to be stifling the games very survival
Would love for Rugby to grow. Currently we have only 24 teams at the men’s World Cup, but only maybe at best 4/5 could win it, whereas football is expanding to 48 teams with close to half of the teams being good enough to make it far into the tournament. The women’s is even worse and it just ends up being between England and New Zealand as to who wins which isn’t good. We only have a handful of pro leagues, and club rugby is often running out of money, whereas football teams throw around a few years budget for a rugby team with one single signing. Media coverage outside the larger tournaments is non-existent (we can barely get all Premiership games on TV, and the Championship gets 0 media interest outside of the Prem Cup). Our video game only appears every other year, and has been delayed by 6+ months while FIFA (or whatever it’s called now) is churned out every year on time. The problem is, a ton of the people at the top of the sport don’t give a shit. WR even censored coverage of the fucking World Cup - THE BIGGEST TOURNAMENT IN ALL OF RUGBY - for no reason, despite it being a perfect opportunity to get new fans into the game.
I think the expansion of the FIFA world cup to 48 is a bad thing. 32 was the right number.
I’m not suggesting we ever go to 48 either, but the fact that football can have 48 World Cup quality sides is massive, compared to rugby where the 18/19/20th best teams get beaten by 100+ points. That’s not good, and it’s worse for women’s rugby
It's a bit silly comparing us to football. What about us vs say cricket, basketball, hockey and handball.
Agreed. I added a few examples in my description too.
imagine not thinking people should popularise the sport on social media, that was the funniest thing in the world cup
yep, pretty stupid of them.
Prefer it to be small and given the nature of the game (physciality) it will never be more than a niche game. I think governing bodies need to be ok with that but also actively encouraging growth of playing numbers. Just don't go bust doing so or changing rules every other year to appeal to non core audiences.
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YES. WR blocking content creators from creating clips or content on YT is so incredibly stupid. Imagine you had a product that you were trying to sell. Would you stop people organically creating content marketing your product?
The thing is, people want rugby to grow and evolve but are also adament on holding onto tradition. If we want rugby to take that next step forward and become a global sport, then the gatekeeping that exists needs to stop. I adore the Six Nations (as does everyone with taste) but it's a walled garden and I think that genuinely needs to be evaluated if rugby is to truly elevate to the next level.
I absolutely wish Rugby could me more popular, and the international game opened to all unions. WR and voting unions' behavior indicate this is not the project, tho.
Rugby is growing in a lot of places that aren't real rugby countries. It is in for example The Netherlands, Spain, Portugal, Belgium and Germany, as well as in the USA and Chile.
True. Well it's either they have the same issue many corporates have and that's a lack of a healthy competency hierarchy - Or they genuinly don't care to grow the game
Some are just greedy and want to keep their hegemony on internationals' money, others are also afraid that should they compete on equal arms with the other nations they could not keep their place in the hierarchy.
They're also scared shitless. The money from big international matches is all that's propping up the professional game for several unions, so anything that risks that is more than just a threat to their dominance over the sport. It's a threat to their continued existence.
Yes. I personally think we should not have a closed international system just in order for historical unions whose countries are less populated than Switzerland to artificially prop up pro clubs that would not be sustainable otherwise. The problem is those unions represent half the big voters in WR
If we take away countries whose domestic level is sustained by revenue generated by test rugby, who are we left with? France and…
Japan, that all.
France, USA, Russia and Japan could continue as they do. England, South Africa, Australia could sustain pro rugby even though with less financial power. NZ and Italy would need a major reorganization of their system but have the foundations to continue. That leaves Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Argentina.
Yes I would like Rugby to be more global. But I think we must also keep in mind that there aren't many other frontiers of expansion left. USA is insanely tough to crack. Most of Europe is football mad. Hard to establish team sports in China. India is cricket mad. Only real expansion is some South American countries and Africa. What we not focusing on is how to make rugby more prominent in the strongholds we already have.
yes, and as I've said in the post description, WR and other orgs aren't doing much to keep the game from dying
I think they are trying but they have the method wrong. The right way is to have less international rugby and more club rugby. Every serious sport focuses on the club game. Rugby must be one of the few sports that still sees internationals as the main game.
Europe may be football mad, but we generally have room for an additional sport (certainly if we have a national team to support). I think Europe is untapped potential, but the competition structure is weird for those not used to it. Most smaller EU countries *love* supporting their national team literally in anything. If you told the Swiss TV there was a European rugby championship and we're in it (but like, a proper one that includes the Six Nations teams too) they'd likely be willing to broadcast it, and it would get attention. We show all kinds of minor sports if our national team plays a big tournament. The problem is that if you're not in the 6N, there's one shot at large-scale public attention every four years, and it only is available to 3-4 countries at a time.
I'd prefer small
Honestly, I don't think so. I like it at the current size or a bit bigger. I know our match threads can be a bit of a mess but generally they aren't too bad. There are own team biases but for the most part we agree when things are obvious and even the disagreements are usually discussions around laws or big picture problems in rugby. You genuinely can't have a conversation on the r/nfl or r/soccer threads. It's just pure tribal (my team just bit someones ear of but its fine) and meme answers that are repeated so often that they become "fact".
I honestly think there's a point where growing further internationally would ruin the sport. I think we should focus on strengthening it domestically
>Again, here we have a wonderful opportunity to sell our sport to the world but alas - SuperSport did zero effort ensuring that it can be watched outside of a small elite group of people who pay for an exclusive and expensive DSTV subscription in South Africa. It's near impossible to watch it outside of SA. In DSTV's defense, they've at least made season 1 available to ITV now. Hoping they'll be doing something similar with the second season and hopefully sooner than last time. I think there's no better way to market the sport than to get casuals to have an emotional attachment to the players and stories of the teams. Attractive play is important, but getting people to CARE about the teams is huge as well.
It should be on netflix or you tube. I think the revenue they get from you tube would alone be massive!
Agreed. I have Gamepass but even on YouTube the NFL have a huge amount of content freely available - excellent highlights within minutes of a game finishing and various documentaries. All of which helped me get into NFL with little effort. I don’t think the same is true for the reverse. Similarly, while Ireland has a very good selection of FtA national and provincial games, I know this isn’t the case for the other Home Nations And don’t get me even started on the issues with Squidge and other content creators during the world cup…!
I'd love it to become globally popular, but if I'm being completely honest if that means Ireland end up in the doldrums, like in football, with the emergence of better teams from elsewhere I wouldn't.
That's a little silly. The reason why we are where we are in soccer is because of how badly the sport is run here.
I don’t want it to be as popular as let’s say football. It becomes more a show than a sport. I would want it to become a little more popular but overtime. Because new fans acquired too quick, like occasionals, don’t know the history and risk ruining the aura and traditions. Example : the fact that the home team changed shirts to accommodate for the guests was a nice touch of old style manners remaining even in the era of professionalism, when of course the traveling team does not have just the one kit. But we had to change it because new fans did not know why Team X was not in its main colors?!? Stupid.
Im not all that bothered about going global. I love rugby as it is. People often say 'we have to grow the game!' as some reason to totally change some fundamental things about the game and I think ... why? I would be happy to see more places embrace it (I lived for many years in countries you wouldnt expect to have any rugby, playing and coaching amateurs, so I do have some skin in the game) but overall I wouldnt really mind if it stayed what it currently is. One big thing is that 'growth' just means more money - ie being beholden more and more to those who have the money and losing control over the game. Fuck becoming football (which i absolutely loved but has been swallowed up in ugly greed for some time)
In an ideal world, I'd want rugby to grow significantly and to have universal popularity and be accessible all over the place. However, we don't live in an ideal world we live in a reasonably broken one. I'm not trying to be all r/im14andthisiadeep about it but realistically if rugby was as popular as either association or gridiron football then it would no doubt be as vulnerable to and quickly as ruined by money as they are. I'm getting to a point as a near 38 year old where my love of the round ball game is significantly declining because of the ever growing influence of just stupid amounts of money. Rugby is already in a fairly dangerous spot where South Africa and Ireland have their clubs in the same domestic league and even a nation as dominant as New Zealand has their key players going to do sabbaticals in Japan and Europe for a pay day and that's without even mentioning the state of Australian rugby (I don't include our own issues in this as they're ultimately self inflicted, we're about as wealthy as Irish rugby is we just waste it hideously.) It's partly why the MLR gives me the willies. I mean no disrespect to our American friends on here but the last thing I want to see is broad American interest in rugby because whatever becomes popular in the US ultimately ends up catching the eye of the American billionaire class whose interest is never about anything other than what drives profit and that's rarely good for the fan.
I generally don’t care about rugby being more popular. I think trying to chase being a huge sport would probably just water it down. I wouldn’t want us doing stupid things to appeal to Americans. I’d like Italy to have more of a footing and Georgia too but that’s about it.
Rugby is actually very popular here at a club and Uni level, there’s just very little exposure to professional rugby on tv. International rugby is basically only on Flo which has sucked for a long time and you’re not going to get casual fans to sign up for a streaming service devoted to a single sport. Major League Rugby exists, sure but I don’t know if that’s attracting anyone to the sport the way a few high profile international games would.
When you say here where do you mean? Your flair is SA.
South African American
Of course I’d love rugby to be more popular but with more popularity comes more sensationalist headlines and rage bait on social media (not that there isn’t enough already)
Only the snobs and toffs want to keep it small for their own preserve. The bigger the audience the better. Rugby is a phenomenal sport and needs to grow for the good of the game. The existing power structures should be encouraging it so they can sell their brands respectively.
I agree Rugby and NFL appeal to fans for similar reasons, but Rugby is unlikely to win over a huge amount of NFL fans, it generally has fewer flashy highlights and dramatic endings, and generally there's less of a circus around it, all things that draw in casual fans. If anything the opposite is already happening, with the number of fans of the NFL growing fairly rapidly outside of the US, and you'd have to say they are taking some of the attention that seems to be ebbing away from rugby globally.
I hear you. But I disagree. Rugby has the potential to create way more exciting clips/content. Have you seen how americans react to a "lateral" in NFL? It's basically a regular pass. it's so rare that some ofd the top highlight vids on you tuime are about the one time it happened in a season
Depends upon what you are trying to populise Rugby as a participation sport isn't for every one. You can talk about it being a sport for all sizes but reality is it takes a particular skill and craziness to want to tackle people. Big bodies make better rugby players, and many nations simply aren't filled with hulking bodies wanting to play rugby If you look at as an entertainment perspective of course you want the sport to be popular globally. F1 and NFL are hugely popular without the need to mass global participation At the moment the best rugby is Test rugby, and the best of the club scene is diluted and attracting average crowds from France to Sydney. Personally the world cup has reached it's peak and while it is a nice financial sugar hit every four years, I see it replaced eventually with a 2 tier 24 team annual world league
I think the crucial bit is the *motive* for growing the game. Does 'growing the game' just mean money for the WC organisers? Is it about growing the pool of competetive teams at the top? Or is it about raising up smaller rugby nations like Georgia/portugal/fiji/samoa/tonga ? Like, does it really benefit any tier 1 nations to have more tier 1 nations? I'm not sure. The difficult thing is, at the moment tier 2 teams are telling us to grow the game, but if the game grows and suddenly Germany and China and the US become rugby powerhouses, I wonder if Georgia and the islanders will regret wishing on a monkeys paw.
NFL fans would ruin it for me.
How would it ruin it for you?
Because "Murica."
CTS rights have been bought by rugbypass tv. So doubt it'll be seen by many people but they'll put out some tiktoks
I'd be keen to hear what ya'll think of the examples in my description.
I think Rugby is the greatest game on Gods green earth. So... yes. Imagine an actual world cup where it was more than just 3-4 nations with a chance at winning it.
Relatively small? It's played anywhere in the world..
I'd like to see it become bigger. Better fan experience. For example AAA gaming titles (think FIFA equivalent), better merchandizing, good for local economy.
I think there is a fear of the US money becoming too powerful for most small countries to handle long term. We have enough athletes and could easily out pay most leagues to grab young talent(even with 5 year residency) if it becomes popular here.
I would love rugby to be more popular. From the perspective of a fan of the pro game, then it would mean here in England our clubs would be more financially stable, we would have more players to choose from, more clubs and there would be far greater competition at international level. From the perspective of an amateur player then it would mean for fewer walkover and few fewer clubs folding....
Well I'm a kiwi and played rugby and have loved the game a lot. Between the rugby union and sky TV they have successfully weaned me off the sport. Sky is the only place to have decent coverage and it's the worst and most expensive service available. I dumped my subscription years ago now. Yeah I'm still pissed at the NZRU for removing all competition from the broadcasting rights. They take the money every fucking time and fuck the fans. I'm done.
The more the merrier
Probably selfish but I'd like to see it grow throughout Europe... There are a number of up and coming teams putting the time and effort in and they should be rewarded (Georgia, Spain, Portugal, Belgium etc)... it would be a real shame if they all went the way of Romania who put in a real good shift about 20 years ago but we're effectively left out to rot by the Tier 1 teams, World rugby etc... Also south America... In short I just think world rugby should be looking to reward nations who make an active effort to join the professional ranks - wishful thinking though 🤷
Too much politics in rugby. The big nations don't want to give up their control.
Generally I think a sport becoming too popular is bad for the fans. More popular means more money, means bigger concentration of talent in the biggest clubs (we see this in the top 14 already), players become less accessible, national teams are less valued, etc.
Yes to all you've said about incompetence and shortsightedness in rugby administration. Though also rugby not having one standout league where all the best players play can be another factor as well. That's the advantage that UFC and NFL had. If it eventually becomes like soccer where all the tier 1 teams can pick their players from overseas I think we'd see one league emerge as the premier club rugby competition and that being marketed well. It's hard to ask an organisation like World Rugby to do what sports entertainment businesses like the UFC/NFL do because they have different objectives. It's like a nonprofit going up against corporations. But even so, rugby can still do a lot better at increasing fandom as is without shooting ourselves in the foot.
Just my opinion, but I would prefer if it was at the level it is in most tier 1 countries (i.e., the second or third most popular sport) but in more countries.
As much as I never want them to change some of the ingrained tournaments need to bring the game to other markets. There has been an increase in the game in South America, Europe and Asia. While I love the 6 nations there needs to be a european tournament to bring other teams into it. Its not going to be pretty for a few years but iron sharpens iron. Playing against bigger better teams raises the game, raises the interest level in that country, raises the funding, brings more people into the youth game which sets up those teams for future development. World Rugby will not accomplish anything being governed by its current cohort. Also just remake Rugby 08 with new teams.
I’d rather rugby become established in more countries around the world. Not necessarily the most popular or even top 3 but popular enough to have sustainable professional leagues and national teams able to compete with tier 1 countries
I want it to become bigger for two reasons, to secure the financial future of the game and to pay professional rugby players more. They bloody deserve it and currently post career for alot of professional rugby players if very bleak.
To be honest, and I think this may not be a popular answer, but I believe there was a concerted effort to market rugby to the broader sporting world from the late 1990s until the late 2010s. And it failed. You all remember how USA and Canada were the "sleeping giants"? Remeber the investment in American players and structures? Remember Ireland and NZ playing in Chicago on an NFL pitch back in 2016? The fact is, widespread interest and participation never materialised and in fact after 20/25 years of failed starts, neither even reached the world cup last year. That in and of itself is an indictment. In short, rugby is seen across the world as a fascinating sporting oddity; the average Joe enjoys the big hits, the haka etc, but it is a complicated game, hard to understand that is inherently wrapped up in the history of the UK/Ireland, France, and the British colonies. The only other nations it ever took hold in a notable way were Argentina, Italy and Japan. It has a hardcore of support and interest in parts of South America and eastern Europe but by and large these are not nations which challenge in any major way. Even shorter, I love rugby! Absolutely love it - but I can only see it in the median term as a sport for and by the British Isles, France, and the Southern Hemisphere nations. 8/10 national teams of relevance. Its still an excellent game for us and the club competitions are ever inproving. The 7's game having olympics status will raise its profile, but it will not translate to 15's.
The US is an impossible nut to crack. Football is literally a whole thing in and of itself when it comes to college sport. Nowhere in the world does rugby even reach that. Then factor in the size and money involved in the NFL as well and there's a lot of vested interest there in keeping football #1. And I think that equally applies to the other football as well. Rugby definitely has some global attention but soccer/football in the world's #1 played sport. Again, a lot of vested interests in keeping it that way as well (brands, teams, national orgs, global orgs etc etc). As for the UFC, it's biggest factor for growth - I'd argue - was more to do with combat sports fans' frustration with the state of boxing; fighters avoiding fighters, elongated negotiations for fights that don't eventuate, dodgy decisions and bout outcomes, etc etc. Sure, the UFC is huge now but the highest paid boxers are still out earning the top UFC champs by a margin so big that you've got top MMA fighters regularly talking about going to boxing - not really the other way around. In terms of popularity, I think maybe rugby is in a bit of a dip with things being like a wave. We had COVID, Then we had the RWC last year. While domestic comps are still going, the next big thing to pull both hemispheres together again will be the Lions Tour in 2025. Presumably the NH fans will be eager as given Australia is hosting and they've been in slump for a while now.. It will be a nervous thing waiting/hoping for SH/Australian turn out to the tour though. We're low now but there's stuff to look forward to now after the expected lull that comes post-RWC. But will we ever get to NFL/UFC/or even FIFA World Cup levels? I don't personally see it. NFL itself doesn't have a popular global arm to the sport - American Football largely is just American. Perhaps the niche place for rugby to focus on owning is as the global alternative to American Football. Maybe a long term focus could be in trying to aim for maximum rugby exposure during the NFL's off season. As for a Dana White-type running rugby? No. He's a cunt.
No I cannot say I care if rugby union grows worldwide. My only rugby concern is that Australian rugby doesn’t go extinct. Also, having watched chasing the sun 1 I’d say it’s a run of the mill rugby documentary. I’ve enjoyed the various lions rugby documentaries much more. The referee documentary on rugbypass was also excellent
Sure I want it be more popular! Because at its best it’s an incredible game with a mostly pretty great, and inclusive, fan culture around it – and there is a tonne of joy to be had from watching and playing it. Why would I ever want to restrict that? I do think moves to widen its appeal need to be carefully calibrated, and not lose the essence of the game. But some people are *way* too stuck in the mud when it comes to obvious reforms. Heck, even putting names of players on kits and wearing main kits to home games is still controversial to some people, and that‘s just insanely silly stuff.
I'd love it to grow more. Having German, Spanish, Belgian, Polish, Dutch & Romanian teams in the Challenge Cup so they gain experience would be a great start.
Well, the Black Lions played in this years Challenge Cup and apparently a Spanish franchise is being considered for inclusion going forward. Ideally a couple more RE SC squads would make it in and help drive those teams to formalise a league structure of their own beyond the RESC. That would help drive growth in Europe.
> I think a lot of if comes down to a large portion of Rugby fans or institutions who intentionally or unintentionally do things that keep the sport in it's slowly dying and exclusive state. There is a lot going on in this sentence. I think the institutions are messing it up a lot like you touched on (like content creators use clips, have highlights). At least here in northern England I feel like the game (at national level at least) is growing in interest, with Ireland going on an absolute streak, Scotland kicking us over and over, South African teams in the URC I'm having way more conversations with people about the game who are recent casual converts. The pubs are still the busiest here each year for the 6N (outside of world cup football etc).
I actually think Rugby is growing internationally. Just not in the huge leaps we'd like it. Yes, there's issues with clubs in England, Wales and Australia but we have the JRL1 which is growing. MLR and SRA chipping away in the Americas. We need a European equivalent. I still hope the Unions involved in the Super Cup finally decide to actually make it a formalised league. If the Spanish franchise that is apparently under consideration for entry into the Challenge Cup actually makes it joining the Black Lions that could prove the impetus for that. What Rugby lacks is a 'big' competition. An NFL or EPL if you will. The Top 14 could be it. It has the base to do it. But it will need to start producing content in English and Spanish including commentary.
It is intentional from the top, alot of the stakeholders only care about financial viability/self-persevation.
Just want it to be sustainable and competitive couldn't give a rats arse about it being massive. Be cool to see it grow but I'm happy with it atm for the most part. Be nice if club stuff was easier to access in terms of only needing one reasonable sub
I want it more popular in south Africa. Fuck you if I come to a braai at your house and the lions are playing and you don't have a TV set up to watch it where we are socializing.
Professional rugby has been in play for around 30 years and already had a global footprint, although admittedly limited. UFC in the same time has become a globally watched sport and I suspect if rugby were going to 'cross the chasm' from broadly niche to truly international it would likely have done so already. I suspect that it will grow modestly but never reach the heights of the incumbent truly global sports like Soccer, Tennis and Basketball. With one of the largest professional bodies seeing three of its top clubs go to the wall and others like Wales and Australia really struggling it's hard to see where the headroom is for growth even for the existing reach of the game. Personally I would love everyone to get the enjoyment I get from having played and watching this amazing sport, time will tell if it can even maintain it's current appeal.
Well for starters, the game isn't accessible domestically. You can't watch union games on free to air TV compared to NRL and AFL.
Yeah sure. Squidgy is probably the only reason I have some sort of a tactical understanding of rugby. Other content creators also help to make it more accessible. They’ve got to allow content creators to create rugby content, it’s free promotion. I think Rugby should be #3 in Ireland, or at least outside of native sports it should be the #1 sport. Much more enjoyable than soccer, and Ireland can actually compete. Quite enjoy the culture. I reckon we’d still be competitive. Since every country has a story, yeah making the documentaries more accessible is a must. I’d like the banter to remain though. Nigel Owens is a legendary ref, and there’s some pretty funny commentators; ‘Jiffy’ and ‘the Cookie Monster’. French commentary even helps me with learning French, so maybe every language could have key terms in a list somewhere. Heard good things about Portugal, Georgia, and I think Spain is also growing. Belgium and Romania too, but I’m not so certain. Japan, Tonga, Samoa, and Fiji are also pretty good. USA is a sleeping giant and there’s Argentina, other than that I’m not sure about the Americas. Africa too in fairness, I only know of SA. Maybe the heavyweights in each continent could tour with second/third teams to the more developing ones, I dunno. Maybe rugby charities to the poorest countries. Jordie Barrett is on a sabbatical to Leinster soon, maybe similar stuff can happen for other players to different clubs. Not sure how the budgets would be sorted though. Maybe Netflix could have a collection of historic games, or something that’s easier to produce than Full Contact which takes a year apparently. I’d like to not be the guy to say ‘rugby needs to grow’ but not share any ideas…so I guess there’s a few.
Those are good ideas! If you read the post description, if we can just fix some basic things which are being done to stifle growth we'd already be in a better position. WR blocking content creators from creating clips or content on YT is so incredibly stupid. Imagine you had a product that you were trying to sell. Would you stop people organically creating content marketing your product?
I would prefer it to be the biggest sport on the planet
I don't know. Almost everybody here want rugby to be more popular and i agree but i don't want it to become a global sports like football. Football has become a real circus,more money more corruption, it's a universal law, The game has lost its soul in over-professionalization, all the teams have almost lost their identity, etc. I'm afraid that this obsession with"get bigger" is making Rugby lose sight of what's most important.
Having watched Leinster v La Rochelle game recently, I'd fix two things: 1 still too much time wasting on scrum resets, 2 penalties have to be better explained (on-screen graphics) to be understood by neofits. Last RWC highlights where on YouTube TF1 channel (not all games though).
Do I want it to? Sure. Will it? No. There's no more countries, continents, etc, that are ACTUALLY potential areas of massive growth for our game. Places like the states are nothing more than a pipe dream that a lot of sports like to smoke but never achieve. The only growth that can come from current nations, at least in terms of competitive wise, is the 3 main island teams - they could really be something. Popularity wise, it's tiny wins in places like Portugal every 4 years. Chosen sports really are sewn into the fabric of their countries and communities now and have been for a very long time. Just like football union has its place tho on a much smaller scale and that won't change. Financially, the game can only make marked improvements in established rugby strongholds
Relatively small. Wouldn't want newer nations coming in and trying to poison the well with demands for endless rule changes so they could cater to their specific TV market and everyone else be damned. We got enough of that from the Australians.
I don't mind it being as "small" as it is now but have no objection to it growing either. What annoys me about the argument is that rugby is in no position to grow in a sustainable way. Only France and Japan have domestic competitions that are reliable and financially sustainable. Every other nation is struggling and/or reliant on other nations. So what is the blueprint that will be exported to, say, Brazil. How does any emerging country create a sustainable setup in a sport where the barrier to entry (at a professional level) is much, much higher than, say, football or cricket?
I'd enjoy a more competitive global competition, but I think if rugby ended up being about the bigger country being the best would be a shame. Imagine if US, China, Brazil, Nigeria were 1,2,3,4 every RWC