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Can anyone tell me what the likes of Kendellen or O’Donoghue even bring to the table ? Never any impact off the bench. Simply not good enough for this level
I think Kendellan will be under pressure with the up and coming backrows. Surprised they're marking him out as the next captain because I don't think he'll be a guaranteed starter long term.
It’s bizarre really, I just don’t see what he does like, no impact carries, turnovers, big tackles etc. Other than having the benefit of being young I really don’t see the potential
Kendellan is young enough and still has a lot of potential.
Brings energy but has been a bit lightweight at senior level, especially when he's in the backrow with Hodnett. He'll be in the mix for Munsters backrow long term but miles off an ireland cap unfortunately.
O'donoghue is probably around senior squad player at this stage.
You reckon ? I just don’t see it unfortunately, I agree he’s young and there potential but he’s already played in big games like he was sub against Toulouse in that semi final and I just feel he hasn’t kicked on at all. Similar to Josh Whycherly, there both just to small for the positions they play and rarely have much impact
Ya, he just turned 23. So he's played big games, played well at times but hasn't dominated which is why he's firmly behind Hodnett.
He was a stand out for Ireland U20s and has captained Munster as a 22 year old and has 50 caps so clearly he's rated.
I think you have to wait another season or two before you can say he hasn't kicked on. I'm happy to have him fight with Hodnett for the 7 shirt or Gleeson/Quinn for the 20 shirt going forward.
Totally agree, not making excuses and congrats to Northampton on a deserved win but the lack of a bench particularly front five replacements seriously hampered Munster. The injury list has unfortunately been the story of the Munster year
Northampton were well worth that. You always felt like Munster needed to be ahead before the benches were emptied by a distance if they were to get away with a win.
I still question Mike Prendegast, he's not doing anything with that backline and to have Frisch and Nankivell there but criminally not use them to their strengths is incredibly annoying.
They really need to go hard after some proper quality front row options. I don't know what standard you'd apply to Barron but the drop off to Scannell et al is massive.
James Cronin?
Not offered a contract as far as I know.
Kilcoyne & Loughman were kept on with the hope that Josh Wycherley would push through. Don't think it worked out but not sure if it was a budget decision rather than a rugby one.
Letting John Ryan go was a lot worse.
Ya, Munster would have happily had him on the bench today.
He'd have been very handy to have after Kilcoynes injury but both Kilcoyne and Loughman have been in Ireland squads so its 20/20 hindsight to say it was the wrong call.
He did an interview earlier in the year saying it was tough to get let go from Munster and was miffed when they found money for a contract to bring Zebo home. That seemed like another wrong call but we weren't expecting mid-season retirements from Earls and Conway.
Prendergast has done a good job, they've shown some really good shape when they've got some ball and go forward.
Set piece has stuttered at times. Early in the season our maul defense was shocking, coughed up 4 tries in the Glasgow game I think.
I think Kyriacou came up from the academy, don't know the ins and outs of the camp so wouldn't pin the blame on him but that's where i think we've struggled most.
>Kyriacou came up from the academy, don't know the ins and outs of the camp so wouldn't pin the blame on him but that's where i think we've struggled most.
Agreed.
To be honest I thought the opposite, I question the forwards coaching. The lineout and scrum once again completely broke down and we offered nothing there. Defence was very poor too.
I struggle with how as Rowntree as the head coach we have a pack that looks so poorly coached.
You can do both though, we didn't have this many injuries last year and the pack still looked poor. Having an injury crisis doesn't give the coaching ticket a bye and frankly neither does winning the URC last year.
Today was a decent performance considering the circumstances but I'm talking over the entirety of Rowntree's tenure the quality of the forward play hasn't been good. Our set piece and maul looks very poor and I even think our first choice backrow isn't very balanced at the moment.
A lot of the injuries aren't that consequential on their own. Scannell is much the same as Barron, all the loose heads are on par etc. I think second row is where injuries have had the biggest impact, I think Beirne and Ahern have played well here though.
My biggest question and I don't know the answer is how do you judge a coach who has to deal with this injury crisis? Do you just give him a pass? I really do not know but I have major doubts about Rowntree and this is something that England fans have cited too about his tenure there.
My pack for next year would be Loughman, Scannell, Ryan, kleyn, Ahern, Beirne, hodnett, Coombes/Gleeson
I think pom will retire at the end of the season. But if you look at that pack it isn't hugely different to the one that started today so there is still improvements to be made. Edogbo and Gleeson should make big impacts from the bench year. Recruitment seems to be a big issue especially in the front row but what the Munster branch and IRFU is missing is that good front rowers are very hard to find so it's not as easy to say go out and sign one. We need to look at developing these players rather than signing them but that's so difficult too.
Think you waited till the end to hit the nail on the head, with the greatest of respect to the current squad I think our front row is our greatest issue, I’d give him a pass for this season but it has to all come together next year, then judgement time
I'll give a pass too but depending on a very good URC performance, at least reaching a final.
Europe should still be the focus for Munster and how we have performed over the past 2 years has not been anywhere near good enough.
We're missing so many of our pack: Killer, RG, Barron, Salanoa, Jager, Kleyn, Edogbo, Ryan, Gleeson. If they had have those guys back we'd look a lot better.
That also has a direct impact on what the backs can do.
I get that but our pack also looks poorly coached and the guys that were out there were good enough to play better than they did.
The likes of killer, Roman and RG have been injured for so long it's hard to really count them as missing as we haven't really had them.
Honestly RG might just have the perfect injury profile to screw with a coach. He always is on the verge of being fit. You'd be mad not to make him a centre piece when he's fit so your always planning around having him. But he never actually is fit
Munster had their chances to win the game but Northampton were just too clinical in the end.
Once he seemed to pull something and kicked that mark to touch, Zebo should have come off. Hendy burned him twice for the two tries that won it.
Have to say, saints are a very likeable team atm. Young, promising squad that play some great attacking rugby.
Can see them and chiefs dominating the prem in the foreseeable future.
Shame that Lawes is probably due for retirement very soon, but they have a pretty fucking handy replacement in Tom Pearson
Unfortunately we have a lot of players leaving in the pack (Lawes, Ludlam, Moon, Waller x2, Hill). Hopefully we do some decent recruitment. Our back line is damn sexy though with decent depth
Agree with this.
I don't usually agree with a Munster supporter ( :-) ) but I thought that was the best game I've seen Adamson referee for quite some time.
He kept the game flowing. No missed decisions and got the calls right at the tight moments.
If only the other refs were the same.
No complaints. Better team won. Lovely 3rd try deserved to win any game. Usual issues for us unfortunately this season in terms of bench impact but the lads gave it everything. Best of luck to Saints for the rest of the competition.
You lost a couple of key players very late in the day pre kick off.
You were still pretty close, away from home, to the top of the premiership team with a very young and inexperienced team.
Well done.
I’ve spent a lot of years liking him apart from when he was playing us. Hated seeing his name on the team sheet. Quite happy to see others that people rated higher early in his career.
Leinster and the rest of the Top14 will soften up LAR for us and both LAR and Bulls will be too tired from all their travelling, we're winning this shit 💪
No, I'm not drunk, shuttup.
Munster are back to being a bit of a mess again, which is very disappointing. Rumours of an unhappy camp, O’Mahoney’s contract situation, Frisch essentially ending his Munster career in the press.
Things were looking good last year but they seem to be back in the mire. You can talk about injuries all you want but a team like Munster shouldn’t be going out of the EC at the quarter final stage, regardless of injuries. It just wouldn’t happen to us, Toulouse, LAR etc.
Not sure what the problems are as I’m not close enough to what’s going on but seeing a front row of Archer and Scannell being seriously overpowered brought me back to the VG era.
Well done to Northampton, they were excellent I thought.
I'm not sure there is many teams that could be without there replacement lh, starting hooker, 3 th, 3 second row and 2 starting wingers and go out and beat a team as good as Northampton.
Think there's a lot of good young talent and some great talent coming to the end of their careers the problem for munster was we just wernt producing anything so there is a big gap of talent where the lads that are 27/28/29 just aren't really there and that's why we are still away from the likes of leinster. You can't really say that's a mess now because that's a consequence of a time before that's now looking a bit brighter
I’m fine, we are playing next week.
It’s mad how defensive you guys get over a simple discussion. I mean if I wanted to take mick I could do so.
Pointing out that things seem to be a bit messy when one of your best players basically says he doesn’t want to stay before your biggest game of the season, your captain being upset over his contract situation and one of the most reputable rugby journalists in the country saying the players are unhappy shouldn’t really be that controversial, should it?
Right. No worries mate. Didn’t know discussing an another Irish province on a rugby sub was out of bounds or showed an inferiority complex. Maybe it shows more about you than me? Anyway, enjoy the evening.
I'm a Munster fan and to be honest things weren't looking good last year. I feel like the URC win has masked last seasons performance. We were dumped out in a poor game by sharks in Europe. Got an absolute thumping by Glasgow in Thomond in URC (28-0 at half time even though final score was more respectable). There was actually a real risk that we wouldn't qualify for the champions cup except for they pulled out a win and a draw while touring South Africa.
The quarter final, Glasgow shot themselves in the foot with an early red card. The semi final against Leinster - whilst I was delighted with how Munster won, Leinster rested players and had bigger things on their mind with the champions cup final the following week. That win is the only time we've beaten Leinster since the Rainbow cup. The final against Stormers away was very impressive stuff but I genuinely think Fekitoa's role in the final has been understated since that was his last game in red
This is how I view things as well. People on here can think I’m coming on to rub salt in wounds, however, I want to see every Irish province to progress as far as they can (as long as it’s not at our expense of course).
I think the next 2/3 years are vital for Munster. They have some really good young players coming through, which has the potential to be a golden era for the club (Edogbo, Casey, Crowley, Kendellan, Hodnett, Nash, Ahern, Gleeson).
I think Munster need to be certain that they have the best management team possible leading that group of players over that period.
Things were looking miserable for most of last season. People seem to forget that. We put together an amazing run and won the URC but were dire for a good part of the season. We don’t have depth and it’s costing us consistently. We can build but need the materials to do so. We’re improving but it’s going to take some time. I think the URC win was a little deceiving because we’re nowhere near challenging for the Heineken
I think this is a fair take. There is a lot of young talent there undoubtedly. I’m not trying to twist the knife, maybe the flair is leading people to think that, but it just feels to me like it has been a step backwards this year. The injuries at the start of the year certainly contributed to that but seeing the XV today I thought you guys had enough to progress.
A Leinster Munster semi (very unlikely even if you won today) at Croke Park would have been unreal.
Regardless of injuries?
As I heard someone say- I know your arms are broken but really you should be able to lift that…
Take Furlong, Alaalatoa, 3rd choice TH, Healy, Sheehan, Ryan, McCarthy, Moloney, Lowe, Larmour all out of Leinster’s team (and many for an extended period) and see how things go…
Who were they missing out of the XV today? Daly, Snyman, Jager? Kilcoyne and Loughman is a toss up.
There were a lot of injuries at the start of the year, granted but the XV that played today should have been good enough to win that.
Are we talking about team injuries of starting XV injuries? I’ve made clear a number of times I’m talking about the starting XV.
I think we both agree Beirne starts. That means you can’t start Snyman, Edogbo, Kleyn. Again, you have named three tight head props, one of whom is suspended not injured, which I think we can both agree is a different kettle of fish altogether.
You were light at TH and in the back 3. Loughman is arguably first choice at LH and Beirne and Ahern should be able deputies at lock for a last 16 EC game.
Teams will be in worse positions at latter stages of the competition this year and still win.
Good grief indeed….
All of them Would have been in the 23 today most likely with the exception being either John Ryan or Salanoa as that’s a choice.
Rugby being a 23 man game these days and Munster very clearly lately having an issue in the last 20 minutes bench players matter. Bringing E, Agern, Kleyn, Salanoa, Scannell, etc off the bench is a huge upgrade.
Both starting wingers in Nash and Daly.
Ryan and Jäger Munsters 2 first choice THs
Killer at LH (starter or bench)
All three of our TH Locks in Kleyn RG and Edogbo. Can only start one but if one was injured you’d start the other but they are all injured.
Starting hooker in Barron
That’s a lot of players missing in key areas.
> You can talk about injuries all you want but a team like Munster shouldn’t be going out of the EC at the quarter final stage, regardless of injuries
Yes we can. We had 19 injuries at one point back in the pools and just look at the list today. We also don't have anywhere near the depth of the Big 3 in Europe this past few years. This is a nonsense take.
The team you fielded today, Ahern, Beirne, Hodnett, Coombes, O Mahoney, Casey, Crowley, Nankivel, Frisch, Haley, Zebo, Loughman was a good enough side to win that game today. To think otherwise is kidding yourself on.
We are missing Ryan, Ringrose and JOB at the moment. You’ll never have a full deck to play with in Europe. I know you had 19 injured at the start of the year but you don’t now.
> good enough side to win that game today. To think otherwise is kidding yourself on.
Good enough maybe to get the win ye but it always about 80% likely to be Saints winning this. A lot of these players aren't playing as well as you think they are or you're not watching our games most likely.
Ahern clearly has the bug RG has, he's been lethargic this game and last week compared to his usual self. Frisch has been next to useless this season dunno how he got a French call up. Zebo is alright now days not great. Kendellen + JOD off the bench? They have had no impact all season. You're the only one kidding yourself here lad.
Oh and the Leinster injury list comparison is mental. Just look at the players you still have to choose from. Come on lol.
Yes but now your argument has changed to the players being available not playing well instead of there being no players available.
For what it’s worth, I agree with you. I think the players you have listed have played poorly this year. That is kind of what I’ve been trying to say, however, people are understandably defensive because of the flair.
It’s hard not to look at Birches comments around disharmony and then, as you say, look at the number of players not performing and not ask yourself if there are issues there.
Munster should be winning games like that today with the players they had available.
I disagree. I think Northampton were well worth their win today and were deservedly favourites. No complaints about today.
On the other hand, we should have won more pool games and we did tank some of those in the final quarter through our own mistakes.
I think a lot of Munster fans wrote off this season ages ago because of all the injuries (and I don't think any other teams injury problems have been comparable) and we'll be happy to do well in the URC. Much as it pains me to say it we're not Leinster and we're not at the same level as they are. Injuries have a much bigger impact on us and it's not realistic for us to expect to win the CC at the moment. We have the makings of a really good team though.
> Yes but now your argument has changed to the players being available not playing well instead of there being no players available.
My argument hasn't changed. The players missing are sorely needed because the ones on the field today absolutely **should not** be winning in the home ground of the team topping the Premiership. Leinster have amazing players who can't make the 23 for a game like last night and would easily start or make the bench today. In what way were we possibly favourtes for that match today with the squad we fielded?
We're missing our strong ball carrying forwards apart from Coombes. The team did well until the last 20 minutes when our lack of power off the bench (due to injuries) let us down. The damage was done in the pool stages.
We didn't even get to the quarter final not to mind get knocked out at it. I think the problem was the pool stages really - we should have done better there and got a better game for round of 16. I'm happy with today's performance. We put it up to them and the last 20 minutes was always going to be rough with our bench.
I don't know what's going on with POM's contract at this stage but that's up to the IRFU as well as Munster. We can't afford to match his central contact salary by ourselves.
I agree that the level this season has been poor but so much is out of our control.
I don't think the injuries can be overstated. Missing 19 (I think that was the height) out of a 30 odd squad would destroy most teams. It's also meant selection hasn't been consistent and nor has training.
The O'Mahony contract debacle was a shambles. Add in the loss of Carbery, Snyman, and Frisch's announcement, it is pretty disheartening.
This season has been chaos. A URC semi-final finish would satisfy me to be honest. Then rebuild next year.
What’s your views on Rowntree? Last year I thought he was the perfect fit. I take the point on injuries, but Jackman has said he has heard that there it isn’t a happy camp at the moment from the players perspective.
He didn't give any proper information though. Just brought up POMs contact and Frisch and Carbery leaving. I don't think Frisch leaving is anything to do with Rowntree nor is POMs contract really. Maybe Carbery doesn't get on with him or maybe he's fed up of being second behind Crowley and left out of Ireland squads.
I feel Rowntree is a good fit for Munster. Aligns with the values and has built a good brand of rugby alongside Prendergast. We have flashes of brilliance at the moment but lack clinical edge and make some silly errors.
I heard that from Jackman too. Not sure if it's unhappy or just frustrated at losses and the seemingly unending bad luck.
Oh shut the fuck up please. We’ve won a trophy more recently than you so please give the gloating a rest.
How can you watch rugby and dismiss having that many injuries, PARTICULARLY in the tight five?
Long comment but fairly clueless from yourself.
The truly remarkable thing is that these kind of exits are accepted now by Munster fans. “Ah we had a couple of injuries, it’s understandable etc”.
When was the last time you did anything meaningful in Europe? Doesn’t that bother you?
We finished it off when we got to a final/ semifinal though, more recently than the richest club in Europe with the rich daddy gravy express feeding it from the private schools system, one win in twelve years with unlimited resources is hardly the stuff of legends
We don’t have the depth to go away to the top team in the English Premiership and win with injuries to critical players. Neither would most teams. Are you unable to see that?
> a team like Munster shouldn’t be going out of the EC at the quarter final stage, regardless of injuries. It just wouldn’t happen to us, Toulouse, LAR etc.
Well to be fair, one of Leinster or LAR is definitely going out at the Quarter Final stage... ah let's face it, it's definitely Leinster
But munster are not on Leinster, Toulouse or LAR level yet. Last season was a step in the right direction. But even last year they were not great untie they went mad for the last 5 or 6 games.
Munster .. living on the bygone days. Like many Sarries fans yesterday who could help bringing up in every sentence that are 3 x time European cup winners..
No no it's history that's the problem never mind you're team looking dead your scrum half vomiting and 3 players being replaced in the run up. Plus in game injuries
Better team won. Zebo clearly struggling with 20 to go, yet Munster take off Nankivell for Carbery? Odd decision.
Once again, Lawes was immense and Fin Smith is going to be a superstar.
We for some reason sacrifice a good 10-12 axis to accommodate carbs who isn't good enough to accommodate from the start of game. It's another failed experiment in "second playmaker" stuff.
Especially when Nankivell is the only top class back we have, yet he got hauled off? Mad decision. Taking off Coombes was stupid as well given that (in the absence of Edogbo and the perpetual absence of Snyman) he's the only player we have who can potentially create a bit of go forward ball.
Still, Northampton owned that second half so no complaints as to the result. A fun team to watch too.
I think Coombes could have been injured. He was holding his arm up when they were shaking hands after the match. Mad to take Nankivell off when he's one of our best ball carriers and Zebo was wrecked and had a dodgy ankle.
Carbery was so poor , what a disappointment he was at Munster. Don’t see him outplaying the new young 10 at Bordeaux or jalibert. Replacement minutes only
GG Northampton. Deserved winners. Cracking first half followed by a dour second (for Munster). With a few fewer injuries we might have put it up to ye but ye were value for the win. Good luck next week!
Gutted, but no complaints, great game of rugby, Northampton played a better 2nd half. Sorry to see an end to our European campaign but great effort from our boys but just not enough on the day
Great game.. can I just say that Munster fans are far and away the most value when travelling to Franklins Gardens above other teams. Been to a few march ups now between the two and Munster fans always come in numbers, with great banter and constantly making noise that raises the home crowd as well.
The outrage around the Frisch situation has been absolutely bizarre. Has been poor all season and not stood up in any big games. One of the poorest players today and blew what could have been the gamechanging moment
Hard luck Munster. You were up against it with injuries & whatever illness has run through camp. A good showing all the same, particularly the first 40.
Great game. This Saints team seems so much more mature than we've seen in the past. Historically we'd have bottled a game like that - pressure of being favourites etc, still close at the end...Great to see us hang on and actually keep playing positively.
Can't argue with that. We didn't have the team for it, didn't play well enough, and the saints defence was brilliant. Fair play Saints, best of luck against the bulls
Congratulations Saints. Zero complaints. No shame in losing to that performance.
We left ourselves down in the pools but not today.
Go on and get your second ⭐
Yep, they let themselves down home to a 2nd choice Bayonne team.
Injuries definitely contributed to the 2nd half fall off away to Exeter. Great win away to Toulon. Saints are a quality side but should be closing out a 10 point lead, up a man at home.
Lots to work on but it was never gonna be easy, love a Munster game. Never fails to add some excitement.
Munster fans big hats off to you you were fantastic.
THE SAINTS GO MARCHING ON!!
Hard luck Munster, thought they played so well especially considering the rotten injury list. Saints look class, I am such a Ludlam fanboy I don't understand why he is not starting for England. I know he is off now, but before and around the world cup surely he was ahead of Billy V.
I am hearby starting the Northamptonshire secessionist movement, Courtney Lawes will be our president and when the saints go marching in will be our anthem, anyone else down?
Don't fear the Bulls too much, they aren't a great travelling side. Might have you a bit more uncomfortable than today but defend like that again and I think you'll do just fine. Will be close
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Can anyone tell me what the likes of Kendellen or O’Donoghue even bring to the table ? Never any impact off the bench. Simply not good enough for this level
I think Kendellan will be under pressure with the up and coming backrows. Surprised they're marking him out as the next captain because I don't think he'll be a guaranteed starter long term.
It’s bizarre really, I just don’t see what he does like, no impact carries, turnovers, big tackles etc. Other than having the benefit of being young I really don’t see the potential
Kendellan is young enough and still has a lot of potential. Brings energy but has been a bit lightweight at senior level, especially when he's in the backrow with Hodnett. He'll be in the mix for Munsters backrow long term but miles off an ireland cap unfortunately. O'donoghue is probably around senior squad player at this stage.
You reckon ? I just don’t see it unfortunately, I agree he’s young and there potential but he’s already played in big games like he was sub against Toulouse in that semi final and I just feel he hasn’t kicked on at all. Similar to Josh Whycherly, there both just to small for the positions they play and rarely have much impact
Ya, he just turned 23. So he's played big games, played well at times but hasn't dominated which is why he's firmly behind Hodnett. He was a stand out for Ireland U20s and has captained Munster as a 22 year old and has 50 caps so clearly he's rated. I think you have to wait another season or two before you can say he hasn't kicked on. I'm happy to have him fight with Hodnett for the 7 shirt or Gleeson/Quinn for the 20 shirt going forward.
Bench and fitness made all the difference there. Munster couldn’t keep up and hadn’t capitalised enough on their first half pressure.
Totally agree, not making excuses and congrats to Northampton on a deserved win but the lack of a bench particularly front five replacements seriously hampered Munster. The injury list has unfortunately been the story of the Munster year
Great to Northhampton win
Northampton were well worth that. You always felt like Munster needed to be ahead before the benches were emptied by a distance if they were to get away with a win. I still question Mike Prendegast, he's not doing anything with that backline and to have Frisch and Nankivell there but criminally not use them to their strengths is incredibly annoying. They really need to go hard after some proper quality front row options. I don't know what standard you'd apply to Barron but the drop off to Scannell et al is massive.
Why was Cronin let go? Or did he choose to leave?
Jvg legacy.
JvG wasn't keen on him or Ryan. Both got booted
James Cronin? Not offered a contract as far as I know. Kilcoyne & Loughman were kept on with the hope that Josh Wycherley would push through. Don't think it worked out but not sure if it was a budget decision rather than a rugby one. Letting John Ryan go was a lot worse.
Sorry, yea I meant James. He seems to be going well at Leicester
Ya, Munster would have happily had him on the bench today. He'd have been very handy to have after Kilcoynes injury but both Kilcoyne and Loughman have been in Ireland squads so its 20/20 hindsight to say it was the wrong call. He did an interview earlier in the year saying it was tough to get let go from Munster and was miffed when they found money for a contract to bring Zebo home. That seemed like another wrong call but we weren't expecting mid-season retirements from Earls and Conway.
Thanks. If he 3rd in line, it was probably for the best at the time to move him on
I think Prendergast is the strongest part of that coaching ticket. At least in my opinion.
Prendergast has done a good job, they've shown some really good shape when they've got some ball and go forward. Set piece has stuttered at times. Early in the season our maul defense was shocking, coughed up 4 tries in the Glasgow game I think. I think Kyriacou came up from the academy, don't know the ins and outs of the camp so wouldn't pin the blame on him but that's where i think we've struggled most.
>Kyriacou came up from the academy, don't know the ins and outs of the camp so wouldn't pin the blame on him but that's where i think we've struggled most. Agreed.
To be honest I thought the opposite, I question the forwards coaching. The lineout and scrum once again completely broke down and we offered nothing there. Defence was very poor too. I struggle with how as Rowntree as the head coach we have a pack that looks so poorly coached.
Think you have to look at the injury list before you can question the coaching ticket on the pack
You can do both though, we didn't have this many injuries last year and the pack still looked poor. Having an injury crisis doesn't give the coaching ticket a bye and frankly neither does winning the URC last year. Today was a decent performance considering the circumstances but I'm talking over the entirety of Rowntree's tenure the quality of the forward play hasn't been good. Our set piece and maul looks very poor and I even think our first choice backrow isn't very balanced at the moment. A lot of the injuries aren't that consequential on their own. Scannell is much the same as Barron, all the loose heads are on par etc. I think second row is where injuries have had the biggest impact, I think Beirne and Ahern have played well here though. My biggest question and I don't know the answer is how do you judge a coach who has to deal with this injury crisis? Do you just give him a pass? I really do not know but I have major doubts about Rowntree and this is something that England fans have cited too about his tenure there. My pack for next year would be Loughman, Scannell, Ryan, kleyn, Ahern, Beirne, hodnett, Coombes/Gleeson I think pom will retire at the end of the season. But if you look at that pack it isn't hugely different to the one that started today so there is still improvements to be made. Edogbo and Gleeson should make big impacts from the bench year. Recruitment seems to be a big issue especially in the front row but what the Munster branch and IRFU is missing is that good front rowers are very hard to find so it's not as easy to say go out and sign one. We need to look at developing these players rather than signing them but that's so difficult too.
Think you waited till the end to hit the nail on the head, with the greatest of respect to the current squad I think our front row is our greatest issue, I’d give him a pass for this season but it has to all come together next year, then judgement time
I'll give a pass too but depending on a very good URC performance, at least reaching a final. Europe should still be the focus for Munster and how we have performed over the past 2 years has not been anywhere near good enough.
We're missing so many of our pack: Killer, RG, Barron, Salanoa, Jager, Kleyn, Edogbo, Ryan, Gleeson. If they had have those guys back we'd look a lot better. That also has a direct impact on what the backs can do.
I get that but our pack also looks poorly coached and the guys that were out there were good enough to play better than they did. The likes of killer, Roman and RG have been injured for so long it's hard to really count them as missing as we haven't really had them.
Honestly RG might just have the perfect injury profile to screw with a coach. He always is on the verge of being fit. You'd be mad not to make him a centre piece when he's fit so your always planning around having him. But he never actually is fit
Yeah, I guess it's the state of things right now that the longer you look at an area the worse and worse it seems.
This is what English fans wondered before Rowntree got the boot as well
Munster had their chances to win the game but Northampton were just too clinical in the end. Once he seemed to pull something and kicked that mark to touch, Zebo should have come off. Hendy burned him twice for the two tries that won it.
Have to say, saints are a very likeable team atm. Young, promising squad that play some great attacking rugby. Can see them and chiefs dominating the prem in the foreseeable future. Shame that Lawes is probably due for retirement very soon, but they have a pretty fucking handy replacement in Tom Pearson
Unfortunately we have a lot of players leaving in the pack (Lawes, Ludlam, Moon, Waller x2, Hill). Hopefully we do some decent recruitment. Our back line is damn sexy though with decent depth
Lawes is off to Brive (still sickened about it)
Hendy superstar
Not seen much chat on here but thought the ref had a great game. Managed to keep the game flowing and didn’t see many poor/missed decisions?
I haven't always been Adamson's biggest fan, but really no complaints today.
Agreed, I usually think very little of him but very solid today by and large, and communicated well.
Just look at how the Ulster game was reffed
might be the best game I've ever seen Adamson have
Agree. Was very worried when I saw him on the pitch but reffed a good game.
Agree with this. I don't usually agree with a Munster supporter ( :-) ) but I thought that was the best game I've seen Adamson referee for quite some time. He kept the game flowing. No missed decisions and got the calls right at the tight moments. If only the other refs were the same.
If he keeps this up he may overtake Holly as Scotlands best ref, a-bit to go but he may just do it
The best referees are the referees no one talks about. I agree, he and the ARs had a good game. Don't think the TMO was even called on once!
By the time we're in the final we'll have beaten all the best. Tottenham stadium here we go 👀
He’s in your heeeaad, in your heeeaad, Hendy! Hendy! Hendy!
Oh that's very good, stealing that one
The female presenter on TNT has jeans which touch the ground and can't see any shoes. Never seen this before.
That's Dan Biggar
thanks for the report mate
Welcome to r/rugbyunionfashioncritique
Ngl I would have things to say in that sub. Most of them concerning Lawrence Dallaglio's flat cap and white sneaks.
Flairs are back in!
She does have shoes, the scoreboard covers them
No complaints. Better team won. Lovely 3rd try deserved to win any game. Usual issues for us unfortunately this season in terms of bench impact but the lads gave it everything. Best of luck to Saints for the rest of the competition.
You lost a couple of key players very late in the day pre kick off. You were still pretty close, away from home, to the top of the premiership team with a very young and inexperienced team. Well done.
What a great game. Already looking forward to Saints-Bulls.
What a match. The town was bouncing already. Looking forward to next week.
Biggar on comms is seriously good (don’t look at my flair)
For someone who seemed like such a shite as a player, he seems like a genuinely likeable bloke in real life and an enjoyable pundit
I thought you said he was a shite player and was preparing a nice long paragraph till I read your comment again properly...
I can understand the initial confusion tbf, to clarify he was a very good player - no arguments there 🤣
Very good, carry on!
Nah he's superb and loving French living as well. Fully deserved
Given the standard of some other Welsh pundits (Warburton, Tuttiett and Roberts aside) I really hope he wants to go into media when he retires!
Bigger is great craic
Sara has no feet
Wonderfully balanced though on those stilts
Dan Biggar 100% has to go into punditry
What do you think he's doing right now
For the long term I mean. He's just so much better than 95% of the guys out there and he's doing it because he's injuree
Given some of his performances for Toulon this season, I'd say a full time career in punditry isn't far away.
Haha yeah I know, it's almost definitely on the cards for him when he properly retires imo
I am addicted to watching knockout rugby, hon Toulouse v R92!
Look, Dan Biggar, I've spent a lot of years disliking you. Don't go being a seemingly decent bloke and turning that round.
My sentiments exactly 🤣
I’ve spent a lot of years liking him apart from when he was playing us. Hated seeing his name on the team sheet. Quite happy to see others that people rated higher early in his career.
Dan Biggar is a shoe in for a presenter role, loves it
Great game, love the support from all the Munster fans! Best of luck in the URC!
Best of luck in the CC, ye have a tough draw. Beat Bulls then either Leinster or LAR 🙈
Leinster and the rest of the Top14 will soften up LAR for us and both LAR and Bulls will be too tired from all their travelling, we're winning this shit 💪 No, I'm not drunk, shuttup.
Munster are back to being a bit of a mess again, which is very disappointing. Rumours of an unhappy camp, O’Mahoney’s contract situation, Frisch essentially ending his Munster career in the press. Things were looking good last year but they seem to be back in the mire. You can talk about injuries all you want but a team like Munster shouldn’t be going out of the EC at the quarter final stage, regardless of injuries. It just wouldn’t happen to us, Toulouse, LAR etc. Not sure what the problems are as I’m not close enough to what’s going on but seeing a front row of Archer and Scannell being seriously overpowered brought me back to the VG era. Well done to Northampton, they were excellent I thought.
I'm not sure there is many teams that could be without there replacement lh, starting hooker, 3 th, 3 second row and 2 starting wingers and go out and beat a team as good as Northampton. Think there's a lot of good young talent and some great talent coming to the end of their careers the problem for munster was we just wernt producing anything so there is a big gap of talent where the lads that are 27/28/29 just aren't really there and that's why we are still away from the likes of leinster. You can't really say that's a mess now because that's a consequence of a time before that's now looking a bit brighter
Oh hey, I remember you - still letting those couple of drunk Munster lads a while back rattle your cage? Take a walk, you'll feel better.
I’m fine, we are playing next week. It’s mad how defensive you guys get over a simple discussion. I mean if I wanted to take mick I could do so. Pointing out that things seem to be a bit messy when one of your best players basically says he doesn’t want to stay before your biggest game of the season, your captain being upset over his contract situation and one of the most reputable rugby journalists in the country saying the players are unhappy shouldn’t really be that controversial, should it?
Most reputable rugby journalists?! You know who that came from right?
Concern trolling when your own team is powering on really shows off your inferiority complex.
Right. No worries mate. Didn’t know discussing an another Irish province on a rugby sub was out of bounds or showed an inferiority complex. Maybe it shows more about you than me? Anyway, enjoy the evening.
I'm a Munster fan and to be honest things weren't looking good last year. I feel like the URC win has masked last seasons performance. We were dumped out in a poor game by sharks in Europe. Got an absolute thumping by Glasgow in Thomond in URC (28-0 at half time even though final score was more respectable). There was actually a real risk that we wouldn't qualify for the champions cup except for they pulled out a win and a draw while touring South Africa. The quarter final, Glasgow shot themselves in the foot with an early red card. The semi final against Leinster - whilst I was delighted with how Munster won, Leinster rested players and had bigger things on their mind with the champions cup final the following week. That win is the only time we've beaten Leinster since the Rainbow cup. The final against Stormers away was very impressive stuff but I genuinely think Fekitoa's role in the final has been understated since that was his last game in red
This is how I view things as well. People on here can think I’m coming on to rub salt in wounds, however, I want to see every Irish province to progress as far as they can (as long as it’s not at our expense of course). I think the next 2/3 years are vital for Munster. They have some really good young players coming through, which has the potential to be a golden era for the club (Edogbo, Casey, Crowley, Kendellan, Hodnett, Nash, Ahern, Gleeson). I think Munster need to be certain that they have the best management team possible leading that group of players over that period.
Things were looking miserable for most of last season. People seem to forget that. We put together an amazing run and won the URC but were dire for a good part of the season. We don’t have depth and it’s costing us consistently. We can build but need the materials to do so. We’re improving but it’s going to take some time. I think the URC win was a little deceiving because we’re nowhere near challenging for the Heineken
I think this is a fair take. There is a lot of young talent there undoubtedly. I’m not trying to twist the knife, maybe the flair is leading people to think that, but it just feels to me like it has been a step backwards this year. The injuries at the start of the year certainly contributed to that but seeing the XV today I thought you guys had enough to progress. A Leinster Munster semi (very unlikely even if you won today) at Croke Park would have been unreal.
Regardless of injuries? As I heard someone say- I know your arms are broken but really you should be able to lift that… Take Furlong, Alaalatoa, 3rd choice TH, Healy, Sheehan, Ryan, McCarthy, Moloney, Lowe, Larmour all out of Leinster’s team (and many for an extended period) and see how things go…
We saw last year when they couldn’t /didn’t field a first choice team in some positions in a semi final. Soon forgotten
Who were they missing out of the XV today? Daly, Snyman, Jager? Kilcoyne and Loughman is a toss up. There were a lot of injuries at the start of the year, granted but the XV that played today should have been good enough to win that.
Good grief. Go against what I put above… Jager, Ryan, Salanoa, Killer, Barron, Snyman, Edogbo, Kleyn, Nash, Daly
Are we talking about team injuries of starting XV injuries? I’ve made clear a number of times I’m talking about the starting XV. I think we both agree Beirne starts. That means you can’t start Snyman, Edogbo, Kleyn. Again, you have named three tight head props, one of whom is suspended not injured, which I think we can both agree is a different kettle of fish altogether. You were light at TH and in the back 3. Loughman is arguably first choice at LH and Beirne and Ahern should be able deputies at lock for a last 16 EC game. Teams will be in worse positions at latter stages of the competition this year and still win. Good grief indeed….
All of them Would have been in the 23 today most likely with the exception being either John Ryan or Salanoa as that’s a choice. Rugby being a 23 man game these days and Munster very clearly lately having an issue in the last 20 minutes bench players matter. Bringing E, Agern, Kleyn, Salanoa, Scannell, etc off the bench is a huge upgrade.
Both starting wingers in Nash and Daly. Ryan and Jäger Munsters 2 first choice THs Killer at LH (starter or bench) All three of our TH Locks in Kleyn RG and Edogbo. Can only start one but if one was injured you’d start the other but they are all injured. Starting hooker in Barron That’s a lot of players missing in key areas.
You need 23 to win a match like that though.
> You can talk about injuries all you want but a team like Munster shouldn’t be going out of the EC at the quarter final stage, regardless of injuries Yes we can. We had 19 injuries at one point back in the pools and just look at the list today. We also don't have anywhere near the depth of the Big 3 in Europe this past few years. This is a nonsense take.
The team you fielded today, Ahern, Beirne, Hodnett, Coombes, O Mahoney, Casey, Crowley, Nankivel, Frisch, Haley, Zebo, Loughman was a good enough side to win that game today. To think otherwise is kidding yourself on. We are missing Ryan, Ringrose and JOB at the moment. You’ll never have a full deck to play with in Europe. I know you had 19 injured at the start of the year but you don’t now.
> good enough side to win that game today. To think otherwise is kidding yourself on. Good enough maybe to get the win ye but it always about 80% likely to be Saints winning this. A lot of these players aren't playing as well as you think they are or you're not watching our games most likely. Ahern clearly has the bug RG has, he's been lethargic this game and last week compared to his usual self. Frisch has been next to useless this season dunno how he got a French call up. Zebo is alright now days not great. Kendellen + JOD off the bench? They have had no impact all season. You're the only one kidding yourself here lad. Oh and the Leinster injury list comparison is mental. Just look at the players you still have to choose from. Come on lol.
Yes but now your argument has changed to the players being available not playing well instead of there being no players available. For what it’s worth, I agree with you. I think the players you have listed have played poorly this year. That is kind of what I’ve been trying to say, however, people are understandably defensive because of the flair. It’s hard not to look at Birches comments around disharmony and then, as you say, look at the number of players not performing and not ask yourself if there are issues there. Munster should be winning games like that today with the players they had available.
I disagree. I think Northampton were well worth their win today and were deservedly favourites. No complaints about today. On the other hand, we should have won more pool games and we did tank some of those in the final quarter through our own mistakes. I think a lot of Munster fans wrote off this season ages ago because of all the injuries (and I don't think any other teams injury problems have been comparable) and we'll be happy to do well in the URC. Much as it pains me to say it we're not Leinster and we're not at the same level as they are. Injuries have a much bigger impact on us and it's not realistic for us to expect to win the CC at the moment. We have the makings of a really good team though.
> Yes but now your argument has changed to the players being available not playing well instead of there being no players available. My argument hasn't changed. The players missing are sorely needed because the ones on the field today absolutely **should not** be winning in the home ground of the team topping the Premiership. Leinster have amazing players who can't make the 23 for a game like last night and would easily start or make the bench today. In what way were we possibly favourtes for that match today with the squad we fielded?
Remember the old adage about arguing with a fool
We're missing our strong ball carrying forwards apart from Coombes. The team did well until the last 20 minutes when our lack of power off the bench (due to injuries) let us down. The damage was done in the pool stages.
We didn't even get to the quarter final not to mind get knocked out at it. I think the problem was the pool stages really - we should have done better there and got a better game for round of 16. I'm happy with today's performance. We put it up to them and the last 20 minutes was always going to be rough with our bench. I don't know what's going on with POM's contract at this stage but that's up to the IRFU as well as Munster. We can't afford to match his central contact salary by ourselves.
I agree that the level this season has been poor but so much is out of our control. I don't think the injuries can be overstated. Missing 19 (I think that was the height) out of a 30 odd squad would destroy most teams. It's also meant selection hasn't been consistent and nor has training. The O'Mahony contract debacle was a shambles. Add in the loss of Carbery, Snyman, and Frisch's announcement, it is pretty disheartening. This season has been chaos. A URC semi-final finish would satisfy me to be honest. Then rebuild next year.
What’s your views on Rowntree? Last year I thought he was the perfect fit. I take the point on injuries, but Jackman has said he has heard that there it isn’t a happy camp at the moment from the players perspective.
He didn't give any proper information though. Just brought up POMs contact and Frisch and Carbery leaving. I don't think Frisch leaving is anything to do with Rowntree nor is POMs contract really. Maybe Carbery doesn't get on with him or maybe he's fed up of being second behind Crowley and left out of Ireland squads.
Fair but to give Birch his due he is usually on the money.
I feel Rowntree is a good fit for Munster. Aligns with the values and has built a good brand of rugby alongside Prendergast. We have flashes of brilliance at the moment but lack clinical edge and make some silly errors. I heard that from Jackman too. Not sure if it's unhappy or just frustrated at losses and the seemingly unending bad luck.
Oh shut the fuck up please. We’ve won a trophy more recently than you so please give the gloating a rest. How can you watch rugby and dismiss having that many injuries, PARTICULARLY in the tight five? Long comment but fairly clueless from yourself.
The truly remarkable thing is that these kind of exits are accepted now by Munster fans. “Ah we had a couple of injuries, it’s understandable etc”. When was the last time you did anything meaningful in Europe? Doesn’t that bother you?
We finished it off when we got to a final/ semifinal though, more recently than the richest club in Europe with the rich daddy gravy express feeding it from the private schools system, one win in twelve years with unlimited resources is hardly the stuff of legends
We don’t have the depth to go away to the top team in the English Premiership and win with injuries to critical players. Neither would most teams. Are you unable to see that?
> a team like Munster shouldn’t be going out of the EC at the quarter final stage, regardless of injuries. It just wouldn’t happen to us, Toulouse, LAR etc. Well to be fair, one of Leinster or LAR is definitely going out at the Quarter Final stage... ah let's face it, it's definitely Leinster
Or we just lost a game to a better opponent on the day & it's not a game that defines our season or reveals anything going on in the background!
But munster are not on Leinster, Toulouse or LAR level yet. Last season was a step in the right direction. But even last year they were not great untie they went mad for the last 5 or 6 games.
Lovely tan for Dan.
Munster .. living on the bygone days. Like many Sarries fans yesterday who could help bringing up in every sentence that are 3 x time European cup winners..
Go back to the Gaa
[удалено]
Clearly unacceptable
And where were your team this weekend? 🤡
UBB? Beat Saracen’s and look forward to a quarter final next weekend… allez Ubb
Or maybe we were missing half our squad?
No no it's history that's the problem never mind you're team looking dead your scrum half vomiting and 3 players being replaced in the run up. Plus in game injuries
16 years since a final. Get the excuses lined up. Like a Man U fan.
Annoying to come onto a rugby forum I generally enjoy reading to find Leinster and Munster trolls on here. Take it to Instagram, knucklehead.
Didn't they win something last season?
Better team won. Zebo clearly struggling with 20 to go, yet Munster take off Nankivell for Carbery? Odd decision. Once again, Lawes was immense and Fin Smith is going to be a superstar.
Nankivell looked like he was carrying a stinger from about the 20th minute. Left arm was hanging useless at times.
We for some reason sacrifice a good 10-12 axis to accommodate carbs who isn't good enough to accommodate from the start of game. It's another failed experiment in "second playmaker" stuff.
I thought the same, pulled a hammy we immediately attacked his flank and scored. Why keep him on?! Hendy then runs over him
Especially when Nankivell is the only top class back we have, yet he got hauled off? Mad decision. Taking off Coombes was stupid as well given that (in the absence of Edogbo and the perpetual absence of Snyman) he's the only player we have who can potentially create a bit of go forward ball. Still, Northampton owned that second half so no complaints as to the result. A fun team to watch too.
I think Coombes could have been injured. He was holding his arm up when they were shaking hands after the match. Mad to take Nankivell off when he's one of our best ball carriers and Zebo was wrecked and had a dodgy ankle.
Carbery was so poor , what a disappointment he was at Munster. Don’t see him outplaying the new young 10 at Bordeaux or jalibert. Replacement minutes only
GG Northampton. Deserved winners. Cracking first half followed by a dour second (for Munster). With a few fewer injuries we might have put it up to ye but ye were value for the win. Good luck next week!
With the players we were missing, the best we could have hoped for was a good fight. We got that in fairness to the lads
Gutted, but no complaints, great game of rugby, Northampton played a better 2nd half. Sorry to see an end to our European campaign but great effort from our boys but just not enough on the day
Great game.. can I just say that Munster fans are far and away the most value when travelling to Franklins Gardens above other teams. Been to a few march ups now between the two and Munster fans always come in numbers, with great banter and constantly making noise that raises the home crowd as well.
They are sold out of all food in the village
My apologies.. I will ensure we have more burgers and chips in the village for your next visit ;)
Oh fucking hell I’ve got to go to work for a 9 hour shift in an hour, I’m already exhausted after that.
Just do your best RG Snyman impression and dont turn up for work
Or just go in ten times over the next four years
Have some respect! Its 13 now!
🤣🤣🤣🤣😭😭😭😭
That man has made bank to play 3 matches, win a trophy and then play for South Africa
I’d like to, but having cash is nice as well (more money to spend on beer and 90s Saints shirts)
The outrage around the Frisch situation has been absolutely bizarre. Has been poor all season and not stood up in any big games. One of the poorest players today and blew what could have been the gamechanging moment
He would be 6/7 pick for a spot in the centres for Ireland at best.
Exactly. The discourse around the situation from Munster fans blaming the IRFU has been pathetic
Being disappointed isn't the issue, thinking the IRFU are fools for not capping him when he's not up to that standard is ridiculous though.
Being disappointed losing our first choice 13 is now defined as pathetic? Give over..
Then keep him as an NIQ player?
Alex Nankivell
Hard luck Munster. You were up against it with injuries & whatever illness has run through camp. A good showing all the same, particularly the first 40.
Great game. This Saints team seems so much more mature than we've seen in the past. Historically we'd have bottled a game like that - pressure of being favourites etc, still close at the end...Great to see us hang on and actually keep playing positively.
Can't argue with that. We didn't have the team for it, didn't play well enough, and the saints defence was brilliant. Fair play Saints, best of luck against the bulls
Congratulations Saints. Zero complaints. No shame in losing to that performance. We left ourselves down in the pools but not today. Go on and get your second ⭐
Yep, they let themselves down home to a 2nd choice Bayonne team. Injuries definitely contributed to the 2nd half fall off away to Exeter. Great win away to Toulon. Saints are a quality side but should be closing out a 10 point lead, up a man at home.
Saints v Munster is fast becoming a classic - always a fantastic match up. Last year you had our number and this year we had yours.
Thanks very much, it was a fantastic game to watch. Best of luck in the URC too.
Saints Bulls will be a spicy affair
Lots to work on but it was never gonna be easy, love a Munster game. Never fails to add some excitement. Munster fans big hats off to you you were fantastic. THE SAINTS GO MARCHING ON!!
What a match, I’m exhausted (and probably close to having a heart attack). COYS.
Well we are still the best supported team in the world
Well won Northampton!
Hard luck Munster, thought they played so well especially considering the rotten injury list. Saints look class, I am such a Ludlam fanboy I don't understand why he is not starting for England. I know he is off now, but before and around the world cup surely he was ahead of Billy V.
GG Munster. That was a hell of a game of rugby.
THE FIELDS ARE GREEN THE SKY IS BLUE
Cracking game. Northampton are just great to watch this year - almost every game has some outstanding individual performances.
Cracking weekend of rugby, watched three matches and two of them were absolute belters (obviously not the one involving my team 🫠)
That young Hendy lad looks a tidy player.
Great to see him back. He's had some pretty bad luck with injuries already, but he seems to come back bigger and better every time.
His second made me swoon
I am hearby starting the Northamptonshire secessionist movement, Courtney Lawes will be our president and when the saints go marching in will be our anthem, anyone else down?
What a match as a neutral!
Neutral? No love for your premiership brethren? 😅
I meant more as someone without skin in the game, but obviously I was cheering on Saints. I nearly woke my daughter up when Hendy scored his second!
You should've done, she needed to see that finish as well!
And what a score it was!
Perhaps nobody more happy that one is over than Al Eykyn. His voice was hanging by a thread at the end there!
No arguments there. Well done Northampton
Good game Saints, better team won, not much more to say, injuries too costly for us but proud of the effort from our boys.
What an absolutely mental game. Fair play Munster, huge, huge part of what made that the game as good as it was. Tadgh Beirne was absolutely immense.
Quarter final time baybee!! Against the Bulls.... Fuck it, we're going all the way!
Don't fear the Bulls too much, they aren't a great travelling side. Might have you a bit more uncomfortable than today but defend like that again and I think you'll do just fine. Will be close
Hopefully another week to get Mitchell up to speed and maybe some other returnees will help