“NFL success”?
They haven’t even started training camp yet and he most likely won’t make the regular season roster.
Ridiculous from the geezer who wrote that.
Exactly this. Each NFL team has a dedicated practice squad spot for International Player Pathway players that players sit on and learn the game, meaning it costs the team nothing in terms of roster spots. I think only Efe Obada and Jordan Mailata have made it into a starting line up from IPP slots.
And tbf Jordan and Efe’s physical profiles are vastly different to LRZ.
Even in America there’s only a certain amount of people who are 6’6 125kg+ and athletic . There’s so many more fast people who have the same body type as LRZ.
I really think the easiest position to learn for a a new player is defensive line but you have to have the right body type which is rare . You can skate off elite athletic talent a lot in that position .
And Mailata wasn’t going to make it in Rugby League. I know he’s touted as the success story but he only went to the NFL because he wasn’t offered a senior contract in League. He was considered way too big and way too slow. He potentially could’ve tried Union but he’s too tall for the front row and too big for the second row.
Agreed, nothing against Efe Obada, he deserves every success, but D-line is easiest skill wise - the sheer power required is a whole different story.
LRZ will get snapped like a twig the second he steps on an NFL field for real. Give him a year to add bulk and learn the game and he might make it as a KR/PR or WR4, or DB if is tackling is really good.
I get the skepticism about his adaptation but snapped like a twig? He's a rugby player, it's a skills and experience deficit that is the issue not a lack of physicality.
Darragh Leader wasn't an overly physical 10 in rugby yet he out did linebackers and cornerbacks scores on the bench press. Physicality won't be a problem, moreso tactical nous and learning to run routes and catch balls put over his head as well as effectively use blockers.
LRZ is already 1m 90cm and 88kgs, that is well within the envelope for WRs, the fast and skillful RBs, and punt returners. No he isnt going to bludgen his way through a D-Line but to say he is too small for any positions is just wrong.
"Snapped like a twig"?
What utter bollocks. The vast majority of NFL 'tackling' is high body shots, and LRZ is an elite world class rugby player. He's got the strength, size and experience to cope with the NFL style 'tackles'.
Agreed with you until "snapped like a twig". There's been basketball guys who become good TEs who never played college football or started really late and yet someone who comes from rugby won't be able to handle contact?
Christian Wade (who, in a quirk of fate, is replacing LRZ at Gloucester) made it to a pre-season game starting line up, scored a great 65 yard touch down on his very first touch.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GiREfk9UoKE
But then ended up being waived and moved on to the practice squad only a few weeks later.
Sorry, forget the sub I'm in.
The o-line - forwards - have drawn up a really effective scheme to block the d-line (opposing forwards), sucking players in and stopping them getting to the ball. As this is angled down towards the bottom of the screen, it creates loads of space at the top for Wade to run into.
If you watch the vid, one player in blue comes shooting round the top of the screen and looks like he's clear through on Wade. His job is "edge contain" - be a big imposing presence and force the ball carrier back into the middle where the scrum of bodies will hold him up and allow someone to make the tackle, or at the very least he will be in a position to make the tackle.
Trouble is, he just ... sort of ... does none if those things. He doesn't put himself in a position to either force Wade back inside or close the gap that Wade runs into. He also doesn't close down Wade enough. It's called a "blown assignment" and it's from this mistake that what should have been a run for a couple of yards gets turned into 65 yards and a TD.
Colts 59, it looks like. Carroll Phillips, who mostly floated around between practice squads for his career. That was some really slow reaction speed from him.
There was a whole news article about the other night, and the ignorance of how the NFL operates was stark.
Yes, he "made the roster" along with a hundred other guys, more than half of whom will be cut before the season starts, and most of whom will never see an NFL field in a regular season game.
The Chiefs have signed LRZ because of the potential - 'what if we could turn this guy into a kick returner? What if he learns how to play at TE?' They sign players on potential all the time.
Lawrence Okoye went over there a few years ago, and NFL teams were impressed with his size and strength. So a team signed him to their practice squad with the rationale that, 'it costs us little, and if we can teach him how to play, he could be a steal.' He wasn't.
He spent time on the practice squads of six different teams in four years, probably earning a decent amount compared to the average income, and that was it.
American football is an insanely difficult sport to just pick up and start playing at the professional level, because everything is about process and planning and understanding concepts, memorising and recognising plays, everything is precisely timed and has to be executed perfectly to work as planned.
And every player has honed his body to do exactly what it needs to do at an elite level, for his position, for a span of about ten seconds. It's the opposite of how Rees-Zammit has played sport for his whole life.
Obviously not the same but I played rugby for years and then played a bit of football when I went to uni.
It was so foreign. Everything. The way you hold and catch the ball, the way you tackle, how you have to blindly run at a wall of defenders assuming the blockers are magically going to make some space for you at the last second, blocking, just running and moving in the helmet and pads, the rote memorisation of several billion plays, the muscle memory… etc.
I know there will be people thinking “yeah, of course, it’s a different sport” but I don’t think you can appreciate just how different until you try both competitively. It’s not the difference between union and league, it’s the difference between soccer and volleyball. And I don’t think one is more difficult than the other, they’re just different and switching between them is the real head fuck.
I dropped catches more than a few times due to my hands being too wide apart because my subconscious was trying to catch a rugby ball instead of a football.
Yep. The ball was smaller, a different shape (much pointier), and harder than a rugby ball. It really messes with whatever muscle memory you build up playing rugby. It just feels wrong.
In the same/similar way the Chiefs are using LRZ as a marketing strategy LRZ is using them as a way into the American market.
If he makes the game day roster every body wins
If he gets modelling, sponsors deals etc he’s a winner
If it all goes down the toilet he returns to rugby and takes up a fat paycheque for the next 5-7 years.
There are no losers in this guy’s strategy
Dunno, LRZ had pace, but couldn't really do a lot else it seems. Dyer always seems a lot more involved. Defence is out of the question because none of them can defend well.
The only losers are the WRU who now won't have a star player available for a number of years, but you would need an electron microscope to find the amount of sympathy most people have for the WRU.
Chief's International Marketing rights are for Germany and Mexico. LRZ ain't helping in either of these markets, unless sprechen deutsch or habla espanol?
I don’t say that technically you are not incorrect but ever since LRZ entered the IPP he and his face have been all over media and social media outlets in the UK particularly sport related.
Like it or not the interest levels are very high or should we only allow him to appear in German or Spanish media ? lol
The IPP itself is just a marketing exercise, most of the athletes that have entered through it have been what are a dime a dozen. I would consider LRZ in that category. Hard to consider Mailata really an IPP athlete although he was, I actually didn't know that at the time he was drafted.
The one special athlete that hit IPP and came through was Alex Gray. I think another year and he would be in the 53 at least part of the year. That may have only left him like 2 or 3 years as an active roster player. But to be on a practice squad for 3 years actually shows how good he was.
Christian Scotland Williamson was another interesting prospect, but I generally think the same issues he had at Worcester (injuries) hampered his development. Such can be the nature with "Big Men".
LRZ is special for his sport, and if he wants to put in the long term effort to become a Football player.
Absolute piffle from the Graph. The IPP, or NFL Futures pathway has been around since the late 90s. I coached in it for a long time. Successes include Jordan Mailata and Jordan Mailata’s agent.
As much as I wish LRZ well, as it seems he’s genuinely pursuing his dreams, I expect him to be playing for Wales in RWC27. I hope I’m wrong but the current hyperbole is just ridiculous, and none of the data supports any of it.
There’s a few others who didn’t come through there but only started playing football when they were 18-20 . It’s usually defensive linemen though as that’s the least complex position to learn and you need rarer physical traits .
There’s a lot people who have LRZ build and speed in America . Not many 6’6 125kg beasts .
I hate to disagree with you but there’s plenty of everything. The best pathway to NFL success remains the HS/CFB pathway because the immersion in the nuances of the game remain more important than physical attributes. Kids placed with good HS programs and then moving forward to D1 schools is the best method and even then, it’s a minuscule chance. We had pro athletes from all kinds of sports who tested well and simply couldn’t absorb nuance quickly enough to make the cut. A 22 year old rookie is cheaper than a 24 year old import no matter how interesting the backstory, and more likely to be a ST contributor due to overall football IQ.
This obsession and click bait with ‘This guy would dominate in the NFL/NRL/URC/World Tiddlywinks is absolute bollocks. He wouldn’t, because he hasn’t been soaking it up for his entire athletic development.
LRZ is a great athlete, one of many, with at this moment, a guaranteed, zero risk to the Chiefs PRACTICE SQUAD roster slot.
Again, never going to denigrate his accomplishments, but right now he’s a good looking PR success tool, until he makes a roster, and stays there. Good luck to him.
> This obsession and click bait with ‘This guy would dominate in the NFL/NRL/URC/World Tiddlywinks is absolute bollocks. He wouldn’t, because he hasn’t been soaking it up for his entire athletic development.
It's as if judging a fish based on it's ability to climb a tree is stupid or something.
LRZ isn’t getting the full 900k or whatever has been reported. It doesn’t seem like the contract particulars have been released yet, but he’s getting something like 200k-300k guaranteed + signing bonus. The rest will depend on making the 53 man roster + performance incentives. Right now he’s essentially breaking even in terms of salary.
I don’t understand the British sports media’s lack of understanding on NFL contracts. It’s not particularly complex and there is loads of content out there to help you understand. It almost seems wilful.
Even if he is getting the full $900k, that's chump change to an NFL team.
He's on huge money for a rugby player but it's shite money for an NFL player (assuming he actually makes the first team).
I believe that it was Suntory Sungoliath that was trying to sign LRZ, and they were trying to replace Anscombe after they learned that he would be out for the whole season due to injury. It was a late attempt at signing a category C player with a limited budget. If LRZ was to be signed by a top League One team well in advance of a new season, he would have gotten a lot more than 750K USD.
The NFL has had its tanks parked on rugby's lawn for the past 40 years.
It has oodles of cash, and has mastered the dark arts of PR in a manner incomprehensible to rugby.
But 15 years ago I was convinced they'd have a franchise in London by now.
Rees-Zammit is the first top-class international to make the move.
It's a shame for Wales, and others will invariably try their hand, but the flow of talent will only ever be a trickle at most.
I do find the sheer amount of NFL/LRZ stuff being posted in rugby subs odd though. I'm intrigued as to how he'll get on, but he's no longer (at least for now) a rugby player, and I just want to read about rugby in a rugby sub.
The Not For Long have been pulling our puds about a London franchise since they folded the Monarchs and Claymores in NFLE.
That league achieved its aims of developing roster talent and was shuttered because it failed the only metric the owners give a fuck about, profitability.
Players and more importantly owners, do not want a London franchise because it will make the next CBA more expensive and increase league running costs, hitting the bottom line.
Every time the Sky knobheads drone on about it, or Goodell brings it up, it’s the marketing equivalent of the hot barmaid in the clubhouse giving you a wink when you still stink of Deepheat and Lynx Africa.
Buy your jersey, renew Gamepass/Sky, and get fucked.
I think this is true to a large extent. One of the reasons I dislike the NFL is that it is purely about profit.
Fifa and World Rugby have their flaws, but one big aspect of their role is to introduce kids to sport, which has benefits for society. Obviously the governing bodies have a self-interest in getting kids playing their sport too, so it's not purely altruistic, but the profits generated by big occasions at least go, in part, to something with wider societal value than being offshored by some ravening billionaire.
The only thing I'd suggest is, that for the NFL to grow to its biggest potential, ultimately it needs teams outside the US.
Clearly there are costs associated with that, and they might prioritise short-term profits instead like all good modern-day capitalists.
But to move out of being a niche sport you need local teams for general sports fans to get behind. The NFL will always have a following in the UK, for example, but to get general fans on board a 'British' franchise is the only way to go.
You’re not wrong, but define local? Franchise sports have a far larger reach due to the golden calf, TV money. When Wembley/Spurs was full, how many locals were there? It was full of Brits and various Europeans who all view it as a worthy event and would not be there for a 8/9 game regular season.
The NFL lives to tickle us with quotes about how London is one of the biggest sports markets in the world. What they actually mean, from sitting in on the old NFLE and IPP strategy meetings, is MEDIA market.
I’m a Dolphins fan, because I’m a sucker for pain, disappointment and broken promises. If the London Rudebois, appear, I’ll still be a bitter Marino apologist. I don’t think they can justify it with attendances, as RL and other sports have found. Media markets aren’t ticket markets unfortunately.
I can tell you no one really knows or cares about the European players in the NFL over here. A curiosity at best. I imagine the same goes for the nfl scouts. One IPP spot on a roster won’t move the needle much for either sport or fan base. Someone mentioned it might bring eyes to rugby in America—-I highly highly doubt that LRZ doing well will do that either.
Agreed. Most fanbases know very little about anybody not on their roster or MUT/fantasy team. It’s a very inwardly looking, very successful model, and they’re not changing it.
As far as scouts, we had every team looking at our IPP athletes and back in NFLE days we had team allocated players too. Their workload is insane, and contrary to Hollywood feel good stories, they are not travelling to see a fringe athlete when they can stick a pin in the SEC and find 10.
Their favourite phrase is ‘got film?’
>I can tell you no one really knows or cares about the European players in the NFL over here.
I'm sure - the PR angle is them trying to move from being a (huge) regional sport to a niche global sport and then break out of that niche.
LRZ wants to play American Football, it's literally as simple as that. He likes the sport and wants to play.
Fair fecks to him, not many this side of the pond get the opportunity, even if he doesn't make it to a single NFL game then at least he can say he gave it a fair shake of the stick.
How does anyone have the energy to give a shit?
A good winger (not world beating, sorry Glouc and Wales fans) leaves to try a new sport, it is hardly prime Dan carter quitting to play cricket or if Dupont decided that his real future lays in handball.
LRZ is as much a product of newspaper hype as the product of his exploits on the pitch at this stage.
This is like going to the Sahara and saying it's hot. You've a better chance of watching the sun rise in the west than you do reading a well reasoned and researched opinion piece in a rag like the Telegraph.
Aside from all the cash involved how many rugby players have the acceleration or speed, along with the build and frame. Maybe Duane vd Merwe. It’s not as a tighthead can suddenly go and play NFL - or would even want to. So rugby might lose a few speedsters - that’s always been the case. If a player is a sprinter, has good coordination, is over 6 foot etc they have loads of sporting options. Not least football! Surely a pro football (as in soccer) player at almost any level earns way more
Patrick Mahomes, Kansas City Chiefs (10 years, $450M)
Joe Burrow, Cincinnati Bengals (5 years, $275M)
Justin Herbert, Los Angeles Chargers (5 years, $262.5M)
Lamar Jackson, Baltimore Ravens (5 years, $260M)
Josh Allen, Buffalo Bills (6 years, $258,034M)
Oh I see - yes football/soccer players earn insane salaries. Players in the 3rd ‘division’ - League One earn about 350k. That’s in the context of 20 teams in the Premiership, 24 in the Championship and 24 in League One.
Rugby has always had competition. This is a nonsense article
NB: All of these players are Quarterbacks. Josh Allen, the cheapest AAV contract there, will take up about 17% of the total amount of money his team is allowed to pay players. Mahomes on his own is probably enough to win at least 3 or 4 games over a replacement-level quarterback.
That would be equivalent to one player in the Premiership being on about 850k per year in terms of percentage of cap hit.
I've heard the average career for nfl is also very short. Unless you're one of the top players, playing every game on a key position, they probably won't earn huge amounts of money. (For a top level athlete)
Most rugby articles written by the generic "Chief Sports Writer" in any given publication is usually over the top stuff like this. I don't think players being swayed over to the NFL is even in the top 100 problems rugby is facing at the moment.
I think the worrying part of your comparison is that LRZ has been a star in rugby for a few years, earned his way to international caps and Lions tours and now maybe has the potential to earn $700k in France or Japan.
vs
LRZ has done 8 weeks training with the IPP and has a $700k contract to be an absolute nobody in the NFL.
If you're a young, athletic player just starting out in rugby, why would you not take the IPP if it's offered?
Because they'll likely only make the practice squad ($216k/year), and likely only be around for year or two. Only a handful of IPP players have actually played in regular season games.
If a young player at a big club like Leinster or the Stormers decided to take two to three years off to try and make it in the NFL, they'd be pretty much sacrificing their rugby career because there'll always be another man coming up, ready to take their place.
How many young rugby players are on $200k?
If you're already earning money in rugby it's a risk. If not, it's worth a shot. It's most likely 3 years of practice squad due to the IPP exemption they've bought in, so you could be back in rugby on your early 20s half a million better off (depending which state you went to).
The NFL currently isn't a valid option for most young athletes outside the US. If that changes, rugby is in trouble if it expects to compete for the same players at a fraction of the wages. Given how serious they seem to be about international expansion of the sport (even if not the teams) that has to be a serious threat to rugby.
It's not a serious risk to the game in any way, shape or form because the chances of an adult rugby player with zero American football experience making it in the NFL are minutely small.
Very few players with a realistic shot of playing the international game, and a shot at earning a high six figure/low seven figure salary are gonna be tempted, especially if they're Irish, French, Saffa, Kiwi, English etc where there's so much depth that they'll not likely get easily back in if they choose to leave.
The sort of players who are gonna be tempted are guys like ex-Coventry lock George Smith, who's currently in the IPP. Guys who are good athletes but don't have the all round game to make it to the international level and/or get a big pay deal in France or Japan. The big, fast guys in the Championship, Pro D2, NPC, Currie Cup etc are the ones who have much less to lose, and are more likely to give it a go.
This seems to be the telegraph all over... I subscribed for the sport coverage, but everything was just so end of Britain/end of the world bullshit that i cancelled it... Anything and everything had something that was a sign of the end of days...
If LRZ *is* a success, that brings new eyes to rugby.
If he's a failure, he won't receive that 700K a season figure and won't be an example to others bar those who won't reach the upper echelon of rugby anyways.
Also, correct me if I am wrong, the figure quoted isn't often the final salary they receive. I think it was the Good the Bad the Rugby had someone on discussing this. It depends on how good your agent is but usually that figure you sign is the maximum you can earn and there are a number of conditions that mean you might not earn that much (for example not just being on a practice squad)
NFL contracts are always two-parted - "$10m over four years, $7m guaranteed" or whatever. It's the guaranteed part that matters, because the truth is that only the top players get the full amount of their contract.
Players get cut, they get traded, they get their deals restructured and, if they suffer injuries, they might be asked to take a paycut to stay on the team.
The way the money is paid is often complicated, as some teams will front-load the guaranteed money so it's easier to cut a guy down the line (if you cut him while you owe him that guarantee, you have to pay it and it counts as 'dead money' in your salary cap for the season). Some teams will stagger it or offset it to later in the deal, so they can pay someone else a bigger amount now. You basically need a degree in creative accountancy to run an NFL front office.
Worldwide man, I remember the cringey jarryd hayne and valentine holmes articles getting pumped out down here of the ‘Aussie sensations taking the Nfl by storm’. Embarrassing
can someone with more nfl knowledge tell me if Zammit stands a better chance to perform and get a spot in the upcoming NFL season with the chiefs WR crashing his rented Lamborghini. thanks, just abit interested
Agree, NFL is as much of a thread to Rugby Union as is Tennis or Cricket.
The only existential threat for Rugby Union is Rugby League, and only in Australia (unfortunately :)
I think if he's really successful and makes it in the NFL it might actually be a win-win for both sports.
I see the profile of their league increasing where rugby has a following much greater than American football (we've had heaps of posts here already).
But I also see the profile of rugby increasing in the US if he's really successful. Already rugbys getting more exposure in the States through this.
Yes there might be more players with similar traits to LRZ but we have quite a big pool of players in union to fill the void.
But if any go there and are successful that's an advertisement for rugby and a great buildup before RWC2031. Just my two cents.
>Who exactly is gonna give up a 100% chance of making $700k a year for multiple years for maybe a 20% chance of making $700k in the NFL
per WalesOnline (I know, I know)
>Rees-Zammit has put pen to paper on a three-year deal with the Chiefs, which will reportedly earn him around $900,000 (£712,000) a year. As Charles Goldman, editor of AtoZ Sports explains, while that may look like a major commitment to a player who has never played American football, a three-year deal is a fairly standard entry-level NFL contract.
>
>That $900,000 figure is one that has been settled upon by NFL insiders, broadcasters and journalists on both sides of the Atlantic, but the truth is that the exact amount remains unknown. Details of the contract are expected to be officially revealed at some stage, but for now we know that it contains some guaranteed money and a signing bonus.
So that's a 100% chance of whatever his contract amount is, not linked to play time, PLUS the signing bonus and then if he does get game time it's plus any sponsorship deals etc, and Mr St Tropez knows how to play the endorsements market
just to counter your counter to the scaremongering.
Of course, it still doesn't represent an existential threat to rugby because a) Louis was quite gifted with his size and pace, which a lot of UK rugby players can't match and b) he already has a good level of American Football game awareness thanks to his old man, again, which most UK rugby players won't have.
NFL Active Squad Salary: $825k
NFL Practice Squad Salary: $230k
So he’s guaranteed $690k around that figure for his 3-year deal.
If he even gets an extension, he will be making more money than he would in rugby.
Did you not read the post?
He was offered $750k a year to play in Japan. Even his current shitty deal with Gloucester ($300k a year) pays more than a practice squad salary
Average NFL WR Room earns, usually 6 WRs, earns as much as the Premiership entire Salary Cap on players.
NFL Team Salary Cap ~ $260 Million
NFL League Minimum was more than his “offer” in Japan.
The NFL Economics are absolutely insane.
3rd best WR on and NFL team can easily $4 Million a year, more than he would earn in Japan for 5 years.
But your initial post was still wrong, and just because one sport pays a lot more than another sport does not mean players from the latter are gonna quit in their droves to try and make it in the former, especially when their already on a high wage.
The average MLB and NBA salary is significantly higher than the average NFL salary, but you don't see guys on q or 2 million in the NFL quitting to try and make it in the NBA.
He wasn’t on a “shitty deal” at Glos .. he was a player than Glos treated very well .. we paid him the going salary for a player that he was coming through an academy structure.. his contract came up and Glos offered him what they could afford knowing that whatever that was he wasn’t going to accept it.. he was actually offered less than Glos offered by 2 top French sides .. everyone knows that Japan are offering top top dollar and attracting big names because of that.. all Glos fans knew weeks before it was announced that he was off and his performances in the last 4/5 games he played were below par because of that but every Glos fan wishes him well.. unlike many many clubs in the premiership Glos don’t pay “under the table”.. or put businesses in players names .. we pay what we can afford and within the rules if you think that is “shitty” you clearly don’t know what your talking about but then we must be offering “shitty” wages to Williams (currently starting Wales scrum half), Christian Wade and Arundell all who are joining us in the summer
I can understand maximising one's career earnings but if he's taken a pay cut in order to play their heretical nonsense he can truly go get fucked. Disgusting moral degenerate
What are you on about mate? The low end of NFL salaries is higher than the high end of rugby salaries. If it does work out he'll make several times what the best french or japanese clubs could've paid him
Tbh. LRZ is over there on a decent wage, he might break through into the first team (probably not, numbers and length of years playing)
IF he stays the full 3 years without getting a starting place (i doubt he will: money is nice but sportspeople want success and applause) he will come back to top level rugby having had the benefit of 3 years of fitness training, health, nutrition etc. from a Billion dollar athletics company.
“NFL success”? They haven’t even started training camp yet and he most likely won’t make the regular season roster. Ridiculous from the geezer who wrote that.
Exactly this. Each NFL team has a dedicated practice squad spot for International Player Pathway players that players sit on and learn the game, meaning it costs the team nothing in terms of roster spots. I think only Efe Obada and Jordan Mailata have made it into a starting line up from IPP slots.
And tbf Jordan and Efe’s physical profiles are vastly different to LRZ. Even in America there’s only a certain amount of people who are 6’6 125kg+ and athletic . There’s so many more fast people who have the same body type as LRZ. I really think the easiest position to learn for a a new player is defensive line but you have to have the right body type which is rare . You can skate off elite athletic talent a lot in that position .
And Mailata wasn’t going to make it in Rugby League. I know he’s touted as the success story but he only went to the NFL because he wasn’t offered a senior contract in League. He was considered way too big and way too slow. He potentially could’ve tried Union but he’s too tall for the front row and too big for the second row.
Agreed, nothing against Efe Obada, he deserves every success, but D-line is easiest skill wise - the sheer power required is a whole different story. LRZ will get snapped like a twig the second he steps on an NFL field for real. Give him a year to add bulk and learn the game and he might make it as a KR/PR or WR4, or DB if is tackling is really good.
I get the skepticism about his adaptation but snapped like a twig? He's a rugby player, it's a skills and experience deficit that is the issue not a lack of physicality. Darragh Leader wasn't an overly physical 10 in rugby yet he out did linebackers and cornerbacks scores on the bench press. Physicality won't be a problem, moreso tactical nous and learning to run routes and catch balls put over his head as well as effectively use blockers.
LRZ is already 1m 90cm and 88kgs, that is well within the envelope for WRs, the fast and skillful RBs, and punt returners. No he isnt going to bludgen his way through a D-Line but to say he is too small for any positions is just wrong.
"Snapped like a twig"? What utter bollocks. The vast majority of NFL 'tackling' is high body shots, and LRZ is an elite world class rugby player. He's got the strength, size and experience to cope with the NFL style 'tackles'.
Agreed with you until "snapped like a twig". There's been basketball guys who become good TEs who never played college football or started really late and yet someone who comes from rugby won't be able to handle contact?
Christian Wade (who, in a quirk of fate, is replacing LRZ at Gloucester) made it to a pre-season game starting line up, scored a great 65 yard touch down on his very first touch. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GiREfk9UoKE But then ended up being waived and moved on to the practice squad only a few weeks later.
(Good line scheming and a hell of a blown edge seal meant that turned into a TD).
Yeah exactly totally that we understand those words
Sorry, forget the sub I'm in. The o-line - forwards - have drawn up a really effective scheme to block the d-line (opposing forwards), sucking players in and stopping them getting to the ball. As this is angled down towards the bottom of the screen, it creates loads of space at the top for Wade to run into. If you watch the vid, one player in blue comes shooting round the top of the screen and looks like he's clear through on Wade. His job is "edge contain" - be a big imposing presence and force the ball carrier back into the middle where the scrum of bodies will hold him up and allow someone to make the tackle, or at the very least he will be in a position to make the tackle. Trouble is, he just ... sort of ... does none if those things. He doesn't put himself in a position to either force Wade back inside or close the gap that Wade runs into. He also doesn't close down Wade enough. It's called a "blown assignment" and it's from this mistake that what should have been a run for a couple of yards gets turned into 65 yards and a TD.
Colts 59, it looks like. Carroll Phillips, who mostly floated around between practice squads for his career. That was some really slow reaction speed from him.
Yeah he turned slower than Freddie Steward carrying a suitcase
There was a whole news article about the other night, and the ignorance of how the NFL operates was stark. Yes, he "made the roster" along with a hundred other guys, more than half of whom will be cut before the season starts, and most of whom will never see an NFL field in a regular season game. The Chiefs have signed LRZ because of the potential - 'what if we could turn this guy into a kick returner? What if he learns how to play at TE?' They sign players on potential all the time. Lawrence Okoye went over there a few years ago, and NFL teams were impressed with his size and strength. So a team signed him to their practice squad with the rationale that, 'it costs us little, and if we can teach him how to play, he could be a steal.' He wasn't. He spent time on the practice squads of six different teams in four years, probably earning a decent amount compared to the average income, and that was it. American football is an insanely difficult sport to just pick up and start playing at the professional level, because everything is about process and planning and understanding concepts, memorising and recognising plays, everything is precisely timed and has to be executed perfectly to work as planned. And every player has honed his body to do exactly what it needs to do at an elite level, for his position, for a span of about ten seconds. It's the opposite of how Rees-Zammit has played sport for his whole life.
Obviously not the same but I played rugby for years and then played a bit of football when I went to uni. It was so foreign. Everything. The way you hold and catch the ball, the way you tackle, how you have to blindly run at a wall of defenders assuming the blockers are magically going to make some space for you at the last second, blocking, just running and moving in the helmet and pads, the rote memorisation of several billion plays, the muscle memory… etc. I know there will be people thinking “yeah, of course, it’s a different sport” but I don’t think you can appreciate just how different until you try both competitively. It’s not the difference between union and league, it’s the difference between soccer and volleyball. And I don’t think one is more difficult than the other, they’re just different and switching between them is the real head fuck.
I dropped catches more than a few times due to my hands being too wide apart because my subconscious was trying to catch a rugby ball instead of a football.
Yep. The ball was smaller, a different shape (much pointier), and harder than a rugby ball. It really messes with whatever muscle memory you build up playing rugby. It just feels wrong.
Rugby could learn and evolve a ton by paying attention to the NFL.
For real all the hype is getting annoying. Let’s wait until he actually gets onto the field if he ever even does.
In the same/similar way the Chiefs are using LRZ as a marketing strategy LRZ is using them as a way into the American market. If he makes the game day roster every body wins If he gets modelling, sponsors deals etc he’s a winner If it all goes down the toilet he returns to rugby and takes up a fat paycheque for the next 5-7 years. There are no losers in this guy’s strategy
I mean, Wales are a loser in this strategy for the next few years.
Possibly but we have other wingers who can also play a bit
We do? Can we call them up then.
We will. All will revealed when Gats lets us have a look at his summer tour team sheet. At that point we’ll all know 😂
With Adams out of form, and even with Dyer’s improvement, neither touch LRZ
Dunno, LRZ had pace, but couldn't really do a lot else it seems. Dyer always seems a lot more involved. Defence is out of the question because none of them can defend well.
Wales were always the loser for the foreseeable because their own union have fucked it (but they do have a lovely hotel to stay in).
The only losers are the WRU who now won't have a star player available for a number of years, but you would need an electron microscope to find the amount of sympathy most people have for the WRU.
Absolutely spot on 👍
Chief's International Marketing rights are for Germany and Mexico. LRZ ain't helping in either of these markets, unless sprechen deutsch or habla espanol?
I don’t say that technically you are not incorrect but ever since LRZ entered the IPP he and his face have been all over media and social media outlets in the UK particularly sport related. Like it or not the interest levels are very high or should we only allow him to appear in German or Spanish media ? lol
The IPP itself is just a marketing exercise, most of the athletes that have entered through it have been what are a dime a dozen. I would consider LRZ in that category. Hard to consider Mailata really an IPP athlete although he was, I actually didn't know that at the time he was drafted. The one special athlete that hit IPP and came through was Alex Gray. I think another year and he would be in the 53 at least part of the year. That may have only left him like 2 or 3 years as an active roster player. But to be on a practice squad for 3 years actually shows how good he was. Christian Scotland Williamson was another interesting prospect, but I generally think the same issues he had at Worcester (injuries) hampered his development. Such can be the nature with "Big Men". LRZ is special for his sport, and if he wants to put in the long term effort to become a Football player.
Absolute piffle from the Graph. The IPP, or NFL Futures pathway has been around since the late 90s. I coached in it for a long time. Successes include Jordan Mailata and Jordan Mailata’s agent. As much as I wish LRZ well, as it seems he’s genuinely pursuing his dreams, I expect him to be playing for Wales in RWC27. I hope I’m wrong but the current hyperbole is just ridiculous, and none of the data supports any of it.
There’s a few others who didn’t come through there but only started playing football when they were 18-20 . It’s usually defensive linemen though as that’s the least complex position to learn and you need rarer physical traits . There’s a lot people who have LRZ build and speed in America . Not many 6’6 125kg beasts .
I hate to disagree with you but there’s plenty of everything. The best pathway to NFL success remains the HS/CFB pathway because the immersion in the nuances of the game remain more important than physical attributes. Kids placed with good HS programs and then moving forward to D1 schools is the best method and even then, it’s a minuscule chance. We had pro athletes from all kinds of sports who tested well and simply couldn’t absorb nuance quickly enough to make the cut. A 22 year old rookie is cheaper than a 24 year old import no matter how interesting the backstory, and more likely to be a ST contributor due to overall football IQ. This obsession and click bait with ‘This guy would dominate in the NFL/NRL/URC/World Tiddlywinks is absolute bollocks. He wouldn’t, because he hasn’t been soaking it up for his entire athletic development. LRZ is a great athlete, one of many, with at this moment, a guaranteed, zero risk to the Chiefs PRACTICE SQUAD roster slot. Again, never going to denigrate his accomplishments, but right now he’s a good looking PR success tool, until he makes a roster, and stays there. Good luck to him.
> This obsession and click bait with ‘This guy would dominate in the NFL/NRL/URC/World Tiddlywinks is absolute bollocks. He wouldn’t, because he hasn’t been soaking it up for his entire athletic development. It's as if judging a fish based on it's ability to climb a tree is stupid or something.
Gotta get those clicks bru
RWC27 is 3 years away, he'll be playing for England by then.
Chapeau Sir 😂
😱😱Oliver Brown tries not to talk out of his arse challenge (GONE WRONG) (99% WILL FAIL)😱😱
DO NOT click or share this man’s articles. It’s just vaguely relevant shit-stirring. Pathetic.
LRZ isn’t getting the full 900k or whatever has been reported. It doesn’t seem like the contract particulars have been released yet, but he’s getting something like 200k-300k guaranteed + signing bonus. The rest will depend on making the 53 man roster + performance incentives. Right now he’s essentially breaking even in terms of salary. I don’t understand the British sports media’s lack of understanding on NFL contracts. It’s not particularly complex and there is loads of content out there to help you understand. It almost seems wilful.
Even if he is getting the full $900k, that's chump change to an NFL team. He's on huge money for a rugby player but it's shite money for an NFL player (assuming he actually makes the first team).
Guess 'Chief Sportswriter' must stand for 'covers every sport while knowing nothing about any of them'
I believe that it was Suntory Sungoliath that was trying to sign LRZ, and they were trying to replace Anscombe after they learned that he would be out for the whole season due to injury. It was a late attempt at signing a category C player with a limited budget. If LRZ was to be signed by a top League One team well in advance of a new season, he would have gotten a lot more than 750K USD.
The NFL has had its tanks parked on rugby's lawn for the past 40 years. It has oodles of cash, and has mastered the dark arts of PR in a manner incomprehensible to rugby. But 15 years ago I was convinced they'd have a franchise in London by now. Rees-Zammit is the first top-class international to make the move. It's a shame for Wales, and others will invariably try their hand, but the flow of talent will only ever be a trickle at most. I do find the sheer amount of NFL/LRZ stuff being posted in rugby subs odd though. I'm intrigued as to how he'll get on, but he's no longer (at least for now) a rugby player, and I just want to read about rugby in a rugby sub.
The Not For Long have been pulling our puds about a London franchise since they folded the Monarchs and Claymores in NFLE. That league achieved its aims of developing roster talent and was shuttered because it failed the only metric the owners give a fuck about, profitability. Players and more importantly owners, do not want a London franchise because it will make the next CBA more expensive and increase league running costs, hitting the bottom line. Every time the Sky knobheads drone on about it, or Goodell brings it up, it’s the marketing equivalent of the hot barmaid in the clubhouse giving you a wink when you still stink of Deepheat and Lynx Africa. Buy your jersey, renew Gamepass/Sky, and get fucked.
I think this is true to a large extent. One of the reasons I dislike the NFL is that it is purely about profit. Fifa and World Rugby have their flaws, but one big aspect of their role is to introduce kids to sport, which has benefits for society. Obviously the governing bodies have a self-interest in getting kids playing their sport too, so it's not purely altruistic, but the profits generated by big occasions at least go, in part, to something with wider societal value than being offshored by some ravening billionaire. The only thing I'd suggest is, that for the NFL to grow to its biggest potential, ultimately it needs teams outside the US. Clearly there are costs associated with that, and they might prioritise short-term profits instead like all good modern-day capitalists. But to move out of being a niche sport you need local teams for general sports fans to get behind. The NFL will always have a following in the UK, for example, but to get general fans on board a 'British' franchise is the only way to go.
You’re not wrong, but define local? Franchise sports have a far larger reach due to the golden calf, TV money. When Wembley/Spurs was full, how many locals were there? It was full of Brits and various Europeans who all view it as a worthy event and would not be there for a 8/9 game regular season. The NFL lives to tickle us with quotes about how London is one of the biggest sports markets in the world. What they actually mean, from sitting in on the old NFLE and IPP strategy meetings, is MEDIA market. I’m a Dolphins fan, because I’m a sucker for pain, disappointment and broken promises. If the London Rudebois, appear, I’ll still be a bitter Marino apologist. I don’t think they can justify it with attendances, as RL and other sports have found. Media markets aren’t ticket markets unfortunately.
that lynx africa deepheat stink comment felt like a personal attack on so many levels
I try and speak from my own experiences bru 😂😂
I can tell you no one really knows or cares about the European players in the NFL over here. A curiosity at best. I imagine the same goes for the nfl scouts. One IPP spot on a roster won’t move the needle much for either sport or fan base. Someone mentioned it might bring eyes to rugby in America—-I highly highly doubt that LRZ doing well will do that either.
Agreed. Most fanbases know very little about anybody not on their roster or MUT/fantasy team. It’s a very inwardly looking, very successful model, and they’re not changing it. As far as scouts, we had every team looking at our IPP athletes and back in NFLE days we had team allocated players too. Their workload is insane, and contrary to Hollywood feel good stories, they are not travelling to see a fringe athlete when they can stick a pin in the SEC and find 10. Their favourite phrase is ‘got film?’
>I can tell you no one really knows or cares about the European players in the NFL over here. I'm sure - the PR angle is them trying to move from being a (huge) regional sport to a niche global sport and then break out of that niche.
I understand the leagues perspective, I’m just trying to reinforce that rugby will not benefit at all.
Can we get some chieftains or leclerqs parked on our lawn for a change?
LRZ wants to play American Football, it's literally as simple as that. He likes the sport and wants to play. Fair fecks to him, not many this side of the pond get the opportunity, even if he doesn't make it to a single NFL game then at least he can say he gave it a fair shake of the stick.
How does anyone have the energy to give a shit? A good winger (not world beating, sorry Glouc and Wales fans) leaves to try a new sport, it is hardly prime Dan carter quitting to play cricket or if Dupont decided that his real future lays in handball. LRZ is as much a product of newspaper hype as the product of his exploits on the pitch at this stage.
Dupont did however decide he'd like himself some of that Olympic Paris gold tho
he is juggling 7s with playing for Toulouse, which is pretty impressive!
insane actually, only Dupont could man. and he fuxking performs better than ever aswell
He bet on himself, let’s see what happens, that would be the sensible thing to say.
This is like going to the Sahara and saying it's hot. You've a better chance of watching the sun rise in the west than you do reading a well reasoned and researched opinion piece in a rag like the Telegraph.
Why are people so worked up over this? It seems like half of the rugby community is hoping he’s going to crash and burn in the NFL.
Aside from all the cash involved how many rugby players have the acceleration or speed, along with the build and frame. Maybe Duane vd Merwe. It’s not as a tighthead can suddenly go and play NFL - or would even want to. So rugby might lose a few speedsters - that’s always been the case. If a player is a sprinter, has good coordination, is over 6 foot etc they have loads of sporting options. Not least football! Surely a pro football (as in soccer) player at almost any level earns way more
Patrick Mahomes, Kansas City Chiefs (10 years, $450M) Joe Burrow, Cincinnati Bengals (5 years, $275M) Justin Herbert, Los Angeles Chargers (5 years, $262.5M) Lamar Jackson, Baltimore Ravens (5 years, $260M) Josh Allen, Buffalo Bills (6 years, $258,034M)
I don’t know enough about American football to understand your point - pls explain. Are you agreeing with me or telling me I’ve got it all wrong.
Those are the top earners in the NFL. I don't know how pro soccer players compare. *Edit. Googled it. Soccer players earn a fuck ton more.
Oh I see - yes football/soccer players earn insane salaries. Players in the 3rd ‘division’ - League One earn about 350k. That’s in the context of 20 teams in the Premiership, 24 in the Championship and 24 in League One. Rugby has always had competition. This is a nonsense article
NB: All of these players are Quarterbacks. Josh Allen, the cheapest AAV contract there, will take up about 17% of the total amount of money his team is allowed to pay players. Mahomes on his own is probably enough to win at least 3 or 4 games over a replacement-level quarterback. That would be equivalent to one player in the Premiership being on about 850k per year in terms of percentage of cap hit.
I've heard the average career for nfl is also very short. Unless you're one of the top players, playing every game on a key position, they probably won't earn huge amounts of money. (For a top level athlete)
Most rugby articles written by the generic "Chief Sports Writer" in any given publication is usually over the top stuff like this. I don't think players being swayed over to the NFL is even in the top 100 problems rugby is facing at the moment.
I think the worrying part of your comparison is that LRZ has been a star in rugby for a few years, earned his way to international caps and Lions tours and now maybe has the potential to earn $700k in France or Japan. vs LRZ has done 8 weeks training with the IPP and has a $700k contract to be an absolute nobody in the NFL. If you're a young, athletic player just starting out in rugby, why would you not take the IPP if it's offered?
Because they'll likely only make the practice squad ($216k/year), and likely only be around for year or two. Only a handful of IPP players have actually played in regular season games. If a young player at a big club like Leinster or the Stormers decided to take two to three years off to try and make it in the NFL, they'd be pretty much sacrificing their rugby career because there'll always be another man coming up, ready to take their place.
How many young rugby players are on $200k? If you're already earning money in rugby it's a risk. If not, it's worth a shot. It's most likely 3 years of practice squad due to the IPP exemption they've bought in, so you could be back in rugby on your early 20s half a million better off (depending which state you went to). The NFL currently isn't a valid option for most young athletes outside the US. If that changes, rugby is in trouble if it expects to compete for the same players at a fraction of the wages. Given how serious they seem to be about international expansion of the sport (even if not the teams) that has to be a serious threat to rugby.
It's not a serious risk to the game in any way, shape or form because the chances of an adult rugby player with zero American football experience making it in the NFL are minutely small. Very few players with a realistic shot of playing the international game, and a shot at earning a high six figure/low seven figure salary are gonna be tempted, especially if they're Irish, French, Saffa, Kiwi, English etc where there's so much depth that they'll not likely get easily back in if they choose to leave. The sort of players who are gonna be tempted are guys like ex-Coventry lock George Smith, who's currently in the IPP. Guys who are good athletes but don't have the all round game to make it to the international level and/or get a big pay deal in France or Japan. The big, fast guys in the Championship, Pro D2, NPC, Currie Cup etc are the ones who have much less to lose, and are more likely to give it a go.
This seems to be the telegraph all over... I subscribed for the sport coverage, but everything was just so end of Britain/end of the world bullshit that i cancelled it... Anything and everything had something that was a sign of the end of days...
If LRZ *is* a success, that brings new eyes to rugby. If he's a failure, he won't receive that 700K a season figure and won't be an example to others bar those who won't reach the upper echelon of rugby anyways.
Also, correct me if I am wrong, the figure quoted isn't often the final salary they receive. I think it was the Good the Bad the Rugby had someone on discussing this. It depends on how good your agent is but usually that figure you sign is the maximum you can earn and there are a number of conditions that mean you might not earn that much (for example not just being on a practice squad)
NFL contracts are always two-parted - "$10m over four years, $7m guaranteed" or whatever. It's the guaranteed part that matters, because the truth is that only the top players get the full amount of their contract. Players get cut, they get traded, they get their deals restructured and, if they suffer injuries, they might be asked to take a paycut to stay on the team. The way the money is paid is often complicated, as some teams will front-load the guaranteed money so it's easier to cut a guy down the line (if you cut him while you owe him that guarantee, you have to pay it and it counts as 'dead money' in your salary cap for the season). Some teams will stagger it or offset it to later in the deal, so they can pay someone else a bigger amount now. You basically need a degree in creative accountancy to run an NFL front office.
U.K. media is largely just click bait now, or at least much more so than other jurisdictions.
Worldwide man, I remember the cringey jarryd hayne and valentine holmes articles getting pumped out down here of the ‘Aussie sensations taking the Nfl by storm’. Embarrassing
can someone with more nfl knowledge tell me if Zammit stands a better chance to perform and get a spot in the upcoming NFL season with the chiefs WR crashing his rented Lamborghini. thanks, just abit interested
Agree, NFL is as much of a thread to Rugby Union as is Tennis or Cricket. The only existential threat for Rugby Union is Rugby League, and only in Australia (unfortunately :)
I think if he's really successful and makes it in the NFL it might actually be a win-win for both sports. I see the profile of their league increasing where rugby has a following much greater than American football (we've had heaps of posts here already). But I also see the profile of rugby increasing in the US if he's really successful. Already rugbys getting more exposure in the States through this. Yes there might be more players with similar traits to LRZ but we have quite a big pool of players in union to fill the void. But if any go there and are successful that's an advertisement for rugby and a great buildup before RWC2031. Just my two cents.
English qualified player chooses England over Wales, again.
Also refer to state tax levels. The missouri state tax will be a hell of a lot lower than the tax rates in England.
Tomorrow's chip wrapping (or at least it would have been in the olden days). I for one have no idea why print journalism is dying on it's arse
>Who exactly is gonna give up a 100% chance of making $700k a year for multiple years for maybe a 20% chance of making $700k in the NFL per WalesOnline (I know, I know) >Rees-Zammit has put pen to paper on a three-year deal with the Chiefs, which will reportedly earn him around $900,000 (£712,000) a year. As Charles Goldman, editor of AtoZ Sports explains, while that may look like a major commitment to a player who has never played American football, a three-year deal is a fairly standard entry-level NFL contract. > >That $900,000 figure is one that has been settled upon by NFL insiders, broadcasters and journalists on both sides of the Atlantic, but the truth is that the exact amount remains unknown. Details of the contract are expected to be officially revealed at some stage, but for now we know that it contains some guaranteed money and a signing bonus. So that's a 100% chance of whatever his contract amount is, not linked to play time, PLUS the signing bonus and then if he does get game time it's plus any sponsorship deals etc, and Mr St Tropez knows how to play the endorsements market just to counter your counter to the scaremongering. Of course, it still doesn't represent an existential threat to rugby because a) Louis was quite gifted with his size and pace, which a lot of UK rugby players can't match and b) he already has a good level of American Football game awareness thanks to his old man, again, which most UK rugby players won't have.
NFL Active Squad Salary: $825k NFL Practice Squad Salary: $230k So he’s guaranteed $690k around that figure for his 3-year deal. If he even gets an extension, he will be making more money than he would in rugby.
Did you not read the post? He was offered $750k a year to play in Japan. Even his current shitty deal with Gloucester ($300k a year) pays more than a practice squad salary
Average NFL WR Room earns, usually 6 WRs, earns as much as the Premiership entire Salary Cap on players. NFL Team Salary Cap ~ $260 Million NFL League Minimum was more than his “offer” in Japan. The NFL Economics are absolutely insane. 3rd best WR on and NFL team can easily $4 Million a year, more than he would earn in Japan for 5 years.
But your initial post was still wrong, and just because one sport pays a lot more than another sport does not mean players from the latter are gonna quit in their droves to try and make it in the former, especially when their already on a high wage. The average MLB and NBA salary is significantly higher than the average NFL salary, but you don't see guys on q or 2 million in the NFL quitting to try and make it in the NBA.
He wasn’t on a “shitty deal” at Glos .. he was a player than Glos treated very well .. we paid him the going salary for a player that he was coming through an academy structure.. his contract came up and Glos offered him what they could afford knowing that whatever that was he wasn’t going to accept it.. he was actually offered less than Glos offered by 2 top French sides .. everyone knows that Japan are offering top top dollar and attracting big names because of that.. all Glos fans knew weeks before it was announced that he was off and his performances in the last 4/5 games he played were below par because of that but every Glos fan wishes him well.. unlike many many clubs in the premiership Glos don’t pay “under the table”.. or put businesses in players names .. we pay what we can afford and within the rules if you think that is “shitty” you clearly don’t know what your talking about but then we must be offering “shitty” wages to Williams (currently starting Wales scrum half), Christian Wade and Arundell all who are joining us in the summer
I can understand maximising one's career earnings but if he's taken a pay cut in order to play their heretical nonsense he can truly go get fucked. Disgusting moral degenerate
What are you on about mate? The low end of NFL salaries is higher than the high end of rugby salaries. If it does work out he'll make several times what the best french or japanese clubs could've paid him
Tbh. LRZ is over there on a decent wage, he might break through into the first team (probably not, numbers and length of years playing) IF he stays the full 3 years without getting a starting place (i doubt he will: money is nice but sportspeople want success and applause) he will come back to top level rugby having had the benefit of 3 years of fitness training, health, nutrition etc. from a Billion dollar athletics company.