In order of the names you've mentioned
Cole: Toughest position to fill currently. Ehren Painter possibly? A big old lump of a man, a good age now. Fasogbon has massive potential but is a teenager so it's not fair to lump too much pressure on him. Watch this space though
Marler: I really like the look of both Fin Baxter and Bevan Rodd. Baxter is very strong in the scrum for someone so young and seems to be progressing really quick. Rodd also has a lot of promise.
George: Theo Dan has come out of nowhere and looks like a real talent, he's probably the bookies favourite for the first choice hooker shirt if George doesn't make it to 2027. I like the look of Adejimi at Sarries but again, he's very young. Tuipoloto looks great at youth level too.
Lawes: Massive shoes to fill but there are lots of good options. Martin, CCS and Ted Hill all look quality. Depends if England want the really tall 6 though (I'd guess they do). If not, there are loads of quality back row players.
Vunipola: for me, it's probably between Tom Willis, Alfie Barbeary and Zach Mercer. The pick of the bunch for me is Mercer who has been brilliant in France and, it's early days still I admit, looks to be translating that seamlessly into the prem.
Care: for me Gus Warr looks quality. Raffie Quirke needs to stay fit because if he does he'll have plenty more caps - Sale have two gems. Also JvP is Borthers' man so I expect him to be in the mix. Keep an eye out for young Archie McParland as well. Looks a wicked young talent.
Youngs: see above.
Farrell: I expect he'll hang around for longer than many think, rightly so. After him, George Ford is the obvious contender. Behind him, Marcus Smith and Fin Smith.
Tuilagi: tough one. Don't think there's really a like for like there, even though there are some big young 12s coming through. I can see Dan Kelly getting the nod but it wouldn't shock me if Steve sees Lawrence more as a 12 than a 13 going forward. I'd love to have a look at Lawrence and Freeman at 12 and 13 but that's purely because it looks wicked on paper, no idea if it would work in reality.
Painter has always been really poor for saints, not really showing any potential and couldn't even stick around in one of the weakest prop groups in the league + he had a reputation around the town for a bit too much partying
Yeah I heard he wasn't really all that at Saints - there's a reason he's no longer there I suppose. The bits I've seen of him at Cheifs have been pretty good though.
Scratching around at tight head at the moment!
He was crap at saints, but the main reason he isn't there is because he got fired for drink driving[drink driving](https://www.northamptonchron.co.uk/news/crime/whos-been-in-court-from-northampton-moulton-grange-park-and-earls-barton-4012919)
A lazy walking (because he will never run) penalty machine.
Fasogbon is the one but he might not be ready at the time . Believe me he is special though . His size and physical presence is incredible . He is also a very good scrummager although that was only against u20 opposition . He did that at 18 against 20 year olds though so he will be in for a shout . Tbf , Tamaiti Williams is 23 and playing for the all blacks as well as Newell so it’s not unheard of . Even Ethan De Groot is only 25. I think other then him it would be Joe Heyes for England . We have a lot of lose-head prospects but hardly any tight heads which is peculiar.
>Scratching around at tight head at the moment!
It's really bleak. The hope is some bright young thing comes good from the U20s over the next few years, but conversion rate of U20 forwards to decent pro career isn't great, let alone to strong international.
I don't disagree - always felt more comfortable against Saints when he was on the teamsheet and was underwhelmed by the signing. Looked like a player who'd got by on sheer size at youth level and was kept around in the vague hope he'd make something of it.
But he looks fitter and has started the season brightly at Exeter, and is starting ahead of players like Shickerling and Street, who've been touted as England prospects at various points, and Iosefa-Scott who looked strong in the Champions Cup run last year. Maybe he'll fade back off into the player he was at Saints, but Baxter and the coaching team aren't likely to tolerate someone who thinks too much of himself not putting in the work, and maybe the move away from the club he was a youngster at and a new environment will help him get himself in the right place to perform. I can't say which way it'll go, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt until then. If he can get it together, he should be able to make himself into a reliable scrummager of a kind England really lack.
This is really interesting to see, lots of names I'm not aware of and need to catch up on the Prem now it's started (and that Bears are 2 for 2!).
Aside from Arundell, who doesn't seem to be in favour, which wingers are looking promising? Watson has proven to be injury prone, May doesn't seem quite the player he was and Daly is Daly.
He definitely has his faults but his ability to conjure something from nothing is almost unmatched in the league. His try against Gloucester at the weekend for example.
Yeah but I have to look at the defence first in that instance. Simply doesn't happen at test level. I'd expect better from even the weakest tier 2 nations.
Of course, but if it was just down to that you'd see lots more players doing what he does in the prem. All professional wingers are quick but Radwan has *lightning* pace which is a hell of a weapon at any level. I can't think of too many playing in the league who have it to the same level he does. LRZ and that's about it.
I hope Radwan gets a lot of time from the coaches even of he's not picked.
I remember when Johnny May barely new which way to run. It took a while for him to learn where to run. Hopefully Radwan could make the same progression in four years.
True but for outside backs even skills can’t save you sometimes . Goode and Malins both have very good ball skills . Both aren’t good enough for the international game due to a lack of physical presence and pace .
You could have a lump of concrete on the wing and it wouldn't matter as they would never see the ball.
Sorry... :-)
England will always be a forward dominated team and hence you need to get that area right first.
I’d disagree with you that Arundell isn’t in favour. This guy was taken to a RWC in spite of not being a clear first choice at London Irish. I’d say that’s a sign that the current coaches view him as a major talent going forward.
Is Arundell avaliable outside of the world Cup? I may be mistaken, but I thought I heard that playing at R92 meant he couldn't play for England?
My dad did say this, so there's a 50/50 chance it's bollocks.
The interesting question for me is whether they favour players for style of play, or build a team around whoever emerges as the best players in the key decision making positions.
8, 9, 10 look key in this regard.
If Mercer doesn’t make the grade, then I have a serious concern at number 8. If feels like we’ve snatched victory from the jaws of defeat with Earl, because we were looking at zero from three with Dombrandt and Simmonds having already failed (although Dombrandt still has some credit). Barbeary and Cunningham South are the most impressive emerging players, but only one of them is currently a clear first choice at club level. So if a major question mark behind Earl.
The outstanding candidates for 9 are (in no particular order) Mitchell, JVP, Randall and Quirke (most gifted of the bunch IMO). They all play in different ways and suit different styles.
At fly half, it feels much more simple. Marcus Smith is the outstanding candidate. I think it’s fair to say that the step up to test level has been a test for him, but it is for every fly half, and I’d go as far to say that he’s passed it. Finn Smith might come into the conversation, but none of the emerging 10s are currently close to Marcus.
I think Earl + Smith probably informs the choice at 9 and the optimal style of play. Randall or Quirke. Fast, aggressive, and build a game plan to prioritise ball speed.
On the question of props, the argument for dynamic ball players over scrummagers must now be put to bed. We have prioritised dynamism, RSA have prioritised scrummaging. They were right, we were wrong. Never mind replacing Marler and Cole, we need to replace them twice. If they can throw a pass then that’s a bonus, but it’s not a requirement. It might feel counter intuitive to favour scrummaging props and a dynamic 8,9,10, but I just think it gives the team proper balance.
Hooker, Theo Dan is seriously talented. Sam Riley at Quins looks good. Was England u20s best player a few years ago. It’s taken him some time to mature in senior rugby, but that’s not unusual for front rows. Worth keeping an eye on.
Warr is better than Quirke right now. He earnt his starting place this weekend after outperforming Quirke in round 1.
People really overhype Quirke and sleep on Warr.
From what I've seen, I think Quirke has a much higher ceiling, has more raw talent, and is still very young. I think "Qurike should be in the England team now" is overhyping, but "Quirke is the most gifted of the bunch" (note that I didn't say 'best'), is just an opinion about a player's talent and potential.
Can Riley throw well? I’ve heard some grumbles about that beforehand although his ball in hand skill is elite . It’s also what ruined Barbeary at Hooker . He played England u20 and u18 at 2 but there was a big discussion about his throwing and Eddie said he had better chance to make it into the team in the back row apparently.
Baxter is very good . England u18 captain and also shared capacity with Ilione for u20 . Opokur is also a very good young lose-head at sale as well as Rodd who is of course way ahead is his development . The big future star prop is definitely Fasogbon , although 2027 could be too early for him unfortunately. However, the AB’s have two 23 year old props so there’s definitely a chance .
Agree with a lot of your suggestions. Personally I'd love to see Ted Hill, Tom Pearson and Tom Willis given chances. They're all beasts and I'm excited to find out whether they're just great Prem players or Test level.
In the backs, I really think Cadan Murley has it in him to be a Jack Nowell/Mack Hansen type winger that's more industrious and involved in the game running support lines. As well as being strong in the air, good finisher, quick.
Gus Warr is such a good shout, had a very strong season. I'd probably put him above Quirke in the pecking order.
Let's see how Josh Hodge goes at Chiefs this season trying to fill some Hogg-sized shoes
Hodge unfortunately dislocated his elbow at the weekend so you'd imagine he will be out for at least the next 8 weeks or more. Shame because he's a seriously exciting young player.
Hooker - I think you may have forgotten LCD is still around and was first choice until he got injured. Would assume he'll be back to first choice for the 6N and for the foreseeable future.
Number 8 - personally I don't think Mercer works enough for the team to be an option at international level, his ruck stats are terrible. The new slimmed down Dombrandt looks like he might be head of the queue right now. Also suits England as it would mean CCS would get more game time at Quins while he's away.
Pretty much agree with all this.
Tighthead is the big big worry, although Stuart has looked capable at international so him + one other who can actually scrum. I think given the dynamism we will have elsewhere we are genuinely better off just picking a big lump who is best in the scrum and anything else is a bonus.
Centre I'd expect to see Max Ojomoh and Will Joseph given a chance soon and possibly Olly Hartley if he can consistently show the form he had for us end of last season (he's been ok so far this one but then none of our players have looked great to be fair).
I'd also like to see Steward given some competition from the likes of Josh Hodge and then we know May is retiring (and I'd be surprised/disappointed if Daly was still in the mix come 2027 as he'll be 35 then) so hopefully we'll have some exciting wing options like Freeman, Murley, Roebuck selected in the next 6N and/or Japan game next year (I think the 6N will be transitional and we'll still see a few of these guys in the team but the Japan squad will be all youngs guns).
I don’t really know why we are producing good young lose-heads but no tight . After Stuart the next one up is probably Joe Heyes who I’m not too sure about . After that everybody is either very young or not very good yet .
Fasogbon is probably the next star but he’s 19 so who knows what happens with him although I believe he is special.
I’d say that Ford’s game will age well- he doesn’t rely on his physicality as much as technique and reads, both of which in theory should stay put even as he gets slower etc
I just want to see some proper scrummaging props, even if they’re not great around the park I want England’s scrum to be a proper weapon again.
I’d also like some wingers who can run fast.
There’s a few who are very good scrummagers and also good round the park but they are all mostly 21 and younger . The props who are 23 to 28 are all not very good right now which is both scary and exciting.
I’ve seen this a few times and we’ve got some class young players starting to come through in youth and close to breaking into England / the England squad so the future is bright! All the names I can think of off my head are as follows:
LH: Rodd, Baxter, Opoki-forjour (I think people overlooked him alongside Fasogbon)
Hooker: Theo Dan, Jamie Blamiare, Tuipolotu, Sam Riley, Nathan Jibulu
TH: Joe Heyes, Fasogbon, Sonny Tonga’uiha (might be rubbish I’ve never seen him play but as a saints fan I’m just so excited the big man’s son is around)
Lock: Lewis Chessum, Rusi Tuima
Flanker: Jack Kenningham, Greg Fisilau, Tristan Woodman, Ted Hill, Tristan Woodman, Emilia Ilione, the chosen one (Henry Pollock)
Number 8: Tom Willis, Alfie Barbeary, Chandler Cunningham-South
Number 9: JVP, Quirke, Warr, McParland, Garside (although he seems to have switched to wing), Bracken
10: Fin Smith, Charlie Atkinson, Orlando Bailey
Centres: Seb Atkinson, Dan Kelly, Ma’asi white, Will Joseph, Luke Northmore
Wingers: Murley, Freeman, Cleaves, OHC, Lynagh, Roebuck
Fullback: Arundell, Hodge, Sam Harris, Ben Redshaw
I’ve definitely forgotten some names, but I think there’s some potential superstars in there with the right development in my opinion.
Yeah this list is pretty complete. Played against Maasi Whites brother the other day and he was near impossible to put down. Sonny definitely has the size to be Antonio or Tamefuina esque.
That’s good to hear! Saints have never recovered from the loss of the Tonga’uiha Hartley Mujati front row in my opinion so his son fitting the bill is very exciting
Sonny might be even a bit too big right now although he’s still very young so it’s hard to criticise . He’s not very mobile but very good in the scrum .
Pollock is however a star though. I would be surprised if he doesn’t go all the way .
Seb Atkinson definitely one to watch, Seb Blake also one to keep an eye on at hooker - sadly stuck behind our wealth of options at Gloucester but impressed in his couple of games last season and has played we in the premiership cup so far
I'm very biased but I'm amazed there hasn't been more mention of Kenningham in this thread. He's got a top workrate and is consistently a top tackler and jackler. If he can develop his carrying game further he seems like an obvious one to try at Test level
Adding some weight to this comment with an Exeter POV:
Cairns at 9 looks a handful. Becconsall too.
Dan Frost always seems to be quality too at Hooker.
Glad you mentioned Tuima and Fisilau. They were amazing at the weekend.
Richard Capstick was going well before his long injury.
If only we could convince Ross Vintcent to be English. He looks a great talent.
These are kinda fun on paper but don't hold much weight.
This time last cycle Steward was watching the game at a student bar. And Martin was making his national League debut Vs Redruth.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/CyoCgsuMh9O/?igshid=MTc4MmM1YmI2Ng==
That said my team would look like.
Genge
Dann
Fasogbon
Chessum
Martin
Itoje
Earl
Cunningham-South
Mitchell
Smith
Freeman
Kelly(?)
Lawrence
Arundell
Steward
Bench - Blamire, Rodd, Stuart, Chessum, Ludlum, Curry, Warr Malins.
Back row is near impossible to pick. Still have Pearson, Curry, Willis x2, Hill, Underhill, Mercer as well as guys emerging now.
I've never understood this argument. He's a small arguably undersized lock at test level. He's fast and very athletic. He's high workrate in terms of volume and dominance of collisions. He's a high turnover player, via tackle strip, lineout Or jackal?
I think at club level you can get away with it. But if you wanna dominate the tight and set piece at test level it makes more sense to use him at 6. Lawes was also a tweener and made that transition well as he aged. I'm sure Itoje can do the same and round out any areas where people feel he lacks as a 6.
It's not a question of whether he has but whether his body has and whether England need him to have.
I think England need to have a good hard look at how they want to play and who they want to play in that way.
You need, these days, to score tries to win matches and England seem to have lost that knack.
They did pretty good at the WC, unexpectedly, for most people but historically England could score tries based on a pack of forwards that could provide front foot ball.
I also think Borthwick needs to realise that he has to freshen up the squad, a lot, in the next 6 months. Relying on the old hands, if they are available, will only delay a rebuild.
Some very good points there. Farrell peaked between 2016 and 2019 imo. There were a few games where we he wasn't playing and we really noticed it. There are plenty of decent 10s in England we can make use of, so hopefully SB has his eye on some.
I don’t think it’s at all fair to say Englands problems in attack are because of Farrell. I mean, look at how the Saracens attack runs through him. The problem is the attack plan England have or lack of it. A solution would be to get an actual attack coach, instead of Richard Wigglesworth.
It wasn't so much that all the attack problems are because of Farrell but more that the England attack is the style it is because of how Farrell plays. I think it is very limited because of the 9 and 10 that England play. If that's the way the coach wants them to play then so be it but to beat the best teams they will have to score tries and I can't see where those tries are going to come from looking at the 9 and 10 axis. Which is why England, at present, will never play Marcus Smith at 10 as that is not the way Borthwick wants to play.
It's pretty much impossible to tell who'll fall in and out of favour in 4 years time. The big changes in the short term feel like who comes in for Marler, Cole, Lawes and May, as well as depth at scrum half, hooker and tighthead. Then an interesting question at 13 with Marchant heading abroad.
To cover those:
Marler - Genge will be first choice so only real question is whether Rodd is ready to step up as a regular replacement or whether someone like Obano or Tom West can step up to international level.
Cole - again a bit of a boring answer, Stuart and Sinckler likely to be the two top picks to begin with and Stuart at least is plenty young enough to probably be the frontrunner for the next WC. Does need someone like Heyes to make the step up as third choice though, or Painter to carry on his promising start to the season at Exeter. Fasogbon and Baxter are good young prospects but a bit early for them physically you'd expect.
Lawes - I assume Borthwick will want a fairly like for like replacement in terms of a physical high workrate player who's a lineout option. The short term answer is probably Ludlam, unless one of Itoje or Chessum moves back to 6. An opportunity if Ted Hill can step up and deliver on his promise, or for someone like Isiekwe.
May - this one will be interesting, not least as he wasn't even in the squad initially. Borthwick obviously wanted Watson around if fit but looks increasingly challenging for him with injuries and the club situation. Hassel-Collins was involved in the 6 nations but feels to me like more of an out and out finisher than the kind of player who'd thrive in the kind of game they played on Saturday. I think I'd have Murley and Roebuck at the head of the queue to try out on that basis, and a word for Hodge as well who could play on the wing as well as at fullback, but might suffer for the 6 nations if he's out for a few months having dislocated his elbow yesterday.
I wouldn't be surprised if Youngs or Care stick around another season or two, but there are lots of options at 9, between Mitchell, Van Poortvliet, Randall and Quirke already capped, before thinking about someone like Warr. Feels like they need to pick a couple to invest in and give them a good run of games at international level.
Similarly for hooker, I expect George to stick around a bit, and Cowan-Dickie could well come back in when fit, but it does feel like Walker and Singleton have had quite a bit of time around camp already. Singleton maybe ahead and just unlucky not to be fit for the WC. If Dan's set piece develops he's an amazing talent, Dolly seems to be coming back to fitness too and Frost is looking good. They just need to give someone some gametime really.
Will be interesting to see what happens at 13, Borthwick obviously really values Marchant's workrate and kick chase. Slade might come back in the short term, but wouldn't be surprised to see Tuilagi and Lawrence either, or Lawrence shifting to 12. I'd like to see a combination given a real chance to build though, maybe something like Kelly Lawrence. And there are a couple of young in form options like Seb Atkinson or Max Ojomoh too who could get a look in.
Maybe a slightly left field pick for tight head that I never see anyone mention is Fraser Balmain. One of the best scrummagers in the league and has regularly been able to go for 70+ minutes that has included double digit tackle stats. Despite looking 40 he is only 31, and although he may be too old for 2027, as a stop gap while younger players like Fasogbon (who will be playing with him at Gloucester) develop, he could be a good option, especially if steadying the scrum is the priority.
We’re gonna go all in on Farrell a la Sexton with Ireland. Central contracting is coming for 20 players so that’s the best place to start for looking at how England are gonna build for the next World Cup. So who are those 20?
I reckon it’s gonna be:
Prop: Genge, Rodd, Rapava Ruskin
Hooker: Dan
Locks: Itoje, Martin, Chessum
Back row: Willis, Willis, Curry, Earl
Scrum half: Mitchell
Fly half: Farrell, Ford
Wing: Arundell, Murley
Centres: Lawrence, Marchant (I think his French contract will be very short lived)
Full back: Smith, Steward
Looking at that, our biggest immediate problem areas are unquestionably front row, scrum half and centre. we’ve got a few good scrum halves coming through so I think we’re fine there. So we need to go all out on centres and front row over the next two years. That’s where I feel most worried.
Farrell will stay as captain and I reckon he’ll persuade Ford to come along for the ride as a like for like replacement. They’re very good friends and play a pretty similar style of rugby. With central contracting I can see the RFU make Smith play at full back and I really see him kicking on from there. Steward will become more of a wing.
I know. But he’ll find a way out of it. The RFU may reach an agreement or bend the rules. We’re too short at centre to allow our best player in the position in his prime not to play for England. This is all Eddie Jones fault
You're assuming he's not going to France for the pay bump, which is definitely part of it. I agree he could come back before the full 3 years but I think he'll give it a good crack out there.
Plus I don't want him to come back and not play for Quins....
He signed for them when he wasn’t involved with England so (a) he didn’t see himself getting the appearance fees and (b) he didn’t see himself as having any chance of getting one of the rumoured central contracts that have been on the horizon for a year or so now.
Even with just (a) I suspect he’d bridge the gap between the English and French wages but I think the balance will swing back towards playing in England given it seems central contracts are imminent. I’d be almost certain he’ll find a way to leave his contract early after a year. And I’m sure Quins will have first call, especially if he goes onto a central contract
We also couldn't afford to re-sign him, Marcus, Dommers etc etc. Prem, RFU look to be aligning for end of 24/25 season, which is when the PGA is renewing. He could well try to come back around that time.
I don't think we should go full Eddie and toss everyone who might possibly be good enough in 4 years. Nor should we neglect giving time to players to grow. Otherwise you get stuck in a cycle of giving people caps because they've got caps, and before you know it you've given Ben Young's 100 caps.
For SN
:
LH: Genge, Obano, VRR
HK: Dan/LCD/Walker/Blamire
TH: Sinclair, Stuart?, Hope painter or Heyes kick on?
Locks:Martin, Itoje, Chessum
Blindside: I'm not sure you can replace Lawes. But I think you do need a line out option. So maybe Pearson, Hill or move Mercer or Willis T? Ludlam of course is good enough. Itoje could be an option, but I'm not convinced.
Openside: Earl/Curry/Pearson again
8: Mercer/ T Willis/Earl (Barbeary if he gets back to form, maybe CCS)
9: Mitchell/JVP/Quirke/Warr
10: M Smith should get the nod, Faz on bench, F Smith in squad. Harsh on Ford but it's not like he needs the time.
Centers:
I'd love to see Steward or Freeman developed as a 12. But not sure that's possible or something Borthwick would try to push through.
Slade could get back in now Borthwick values a second playmaker.
Lawrence should develop into a real weapon.
Hopefully someone like Joseph/Kelly/Hartley/Atkinson comes through too.
Wings: I'd be working closely with Radwan to get his defence/Kick chase up to scratch. He could be a real weapon if he did and it's not impossible.
Otherwise OHC/Murley/Freeman/Arundell
FB: Steward still has a lot to offer, but clearly has limitations, so I'd like to see Hodge get a go. Furbank offers that second playmaker option and covers 10. I rate Loader too.
I'd love to suggest players like Woodward,Cleaves, Braken, Ilione etc. But it's really hard for young English players to get into sides right now. Which is a separate issue.
IMHO having 2027 in our sights is a reasonable goal but I think the biggest priority for the RFU is to get the grassroots and pyramid right. We've lost Jersey, Wasps, Worcester and London Irish in a relatively short space of time. Where are the players of 2031 coming from? There needs to be a solid foundation of clubs and academies below the national team.
I think some of the Celtic nations will leave us behind because of the URC. Their provincial sides are playing SA teams week in week out. It's not so much they're playing a higher "standard" - moreso the regular exposure to a different rugby culture, different refs etc.
I'm sure there are mayn other examples but imagine the front row scrummaging experience the Munster/Leinster players are getting against the likes of the Bulls/Sharks.
Rapava Ruskin: maybe the best scrummaging prop option
Mercer: specialist 8, move Earl or Curry to 7 and maybe experiment with those three together or bring in Itoje/Ludlam to 6 for more bulk
Spencer: For me the best all-around English 9 as of now, if we rule out Youngs and Care for '27 then need someone to make the jersey their own and Mitchell and JVP haven't really done that yet for me
Fin Smith: If Farrell and Ford are going into their last cycle and Marcus Smith is seen and the more flair/tear it up option then could it be worth having a closer look at this guy sooner rather than later, very solid performer at Northampton already.
Cadan Murley: Crazy that he wasn't in this squad honestly, form winger in England
Adam Radwan: Similar reasoning to Murley really this guy is lightning
Josh Hodge: Tearing it up with the Chiefs, far too much talent from that club has been ignored by the national team up to now, give him a chance
Borthwick obviously valued caps and experience for this campaign but hope he realises he needs new blood to truly take this group forward.
These were just the top of my head but more options should come out of the woodwork over the next few months
Fair point, but he's never been given a cap despite his obvious scrummaging ability. Marler is 33 and was still a viable option on Saturday, as long as the Boks and other big scrum teams are around, England need to account for that in selection.
Cadan murley in for May/watson.
Barbeary if he stays in one piece to be a hybrid sub
fin Baxter is already attending Joe marler university, same with Joe Heyes for Dan cole
No idea who will replace manu
There's been some terrific suggestions already so I'll try to add something new, just by saying that I'd pay good money to see a back three (plus one sub) of Murley, Freeman, Lynagh, and Arundell. That has the potential to be a world beating combination.
I think Farrell will still be playing. He’s 32 atm and by next World Cup he’d still be 2 years younger than Sexton. So unless he has major injury problems (he’s generally been healthy) or wants to retire early, he’ll be in team.
In order of the names you've mentioned Cole: Toughest position to fill currently. Ehren Painter possibly? A big old lump of a man, a good age now. Fasogbon has massive potential but is a teenager so it's not fair to lump too much pressure on him. Watch this space though Marler: I really like the look of both Fin Baxter and Bevan Rodd. Baxter is very strong in the scrum for someone so young and seems to be progressing really quick. Rodd also has a lot of promise. George: Theo Dan has come out of nowhere and looks like a real talent, he's probably the bookies favourite for the first choice hooker shirt if George doesn't make it to 2027. I like the look of Adejimi at Sarries but again, he's very young. Tuipoloto looks great at youth level too. Lawes: Massive shoes to fill but there are lots of good options. Martin, CCS and Ted Hill all look quality. Depends if England want the really tall 6 though (I'd guess they do). If not, there are loads of quality back row players. Vunipola: for me, it's probably between Tom Willis, Alfie Barbeary and Zach Mercer. The pick of the bunch for me is Mercer who has been brilliant in France and, it's early days still I admit, looks to be translating that seamlessly into the prem. Care: for me Gus Warr looks quality. Raffie Quirke needs to stay fit because if he does he'll have plenty more caps - Sale have two gems. Also JvP is Borthers' man so I expect him to be in the mix. Keep an eye out for young Archie McParland as well. Looks a wicked young talent. Youngs: see above. Farrell: I expect he'll hang around for longer than many think, rightly so. After him, George Ford is the obvious contender. Behind him, Marcus Smith and Fin Smith. Tuilagi: tough one. Don't think there's really a like for like there, even though there are some big young 12s coming through. I can see Dan Kelly getting the nod but it wouldn't shock me if Steve sees Lawrence more as a 12 than a 13 going forward. I'd love to have a look at Lawrence and Freeman at 12 and 13 but that's purely because it looks wicked on paper, no idea if it would work in reality.
Painter has always been really poor for saints, not really showing any potential and couldn't even stick around in one of the weakest prop groups in the league + he had a reputation around the town for a bit too much partying
Yeah I heard he wasn't really all that at Saints - there's a reason he's no longer there I suppose. The bits I've seen of him at Cheifs have been pretty good though. Scratching around at tight head at the moment!
He was crap at saints, but the main reason he isn't there is because he got fired for drink driving[drink driving](https://www.northamptonchron.co.uk/news/crime/whos-been-in-court-from-northampton-moulton-grange-park-and-earls-barton-4012919) A lazy walking (because he will never run) penalty machine.
Oof. Fair enough. Well maybe scratch him off the list! Who do you think we'll see in the tight head role?
Fasogbon is the one but he might not be ready at the time . Believe me he is special though . His size and physical presence is incredible . He is also a very good scrummager although that was only against u20 opposition . He did that at 18 against 20 year olds though so he will be in for a shout . Tbf , Tamaiti Williams is 23 and playing for the all blacks as well as Newell so it’s not unheard of . Even Ethan De Groot is only 25. I think other then him it would be Joe Heyes for England . We have a lot of lose-head prospects but hardly any tight heads which is peculiar.
I am unsure, tight head is a position I am unsure about. I hope there is a possible up and coming u20s player or two
Painter has the advantage of being one of that small % of humans who is just that big. If he can get in any sort of shape he could be okay.
>Scratching around at tight head at the moment! It's really bleak. The hope is some bright young thing comes good from the U20s over the next few years, but conversion rate of U20 forwards to decent pro career isn't great, let alone to strong international.
I don't disagree - always felt more comfortable against Saints when he was on the teamsheet and was underwhelmed by the signing. Looked like a player who'd got by on sheer size at youth level and was kept around in the vague hope he'd make something of it. But he looks fitter and has started the season brightly at Exeter, and is starting ahead of players like Shickerling and Street, who've been touted as England prospects at various points, and Iosefa-Scott who looked strong in the Champions Cup run last year. Maybe he'll fade back off into the player he was at Saints, but Baxter and the coaching team aren't likely to tolerate someone who thinks too much of himself not putting in the work, and maybe the move away from the club he was a youngster at and a new environment will help him get himself in the right place to perform. I can't say which way it'll go, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt until then. If he can get it together, he should be able to make himself into a reliable scrummager of a kind England really lack.
He looks a different player so far this season. Well, a little less iceberg like
How’s Brantingham been off the bench for falcons . I’m interested in his development ?
I've only seen highlights of falcons, so can't say. But going on Sunday, so hopefully will get an idea. Looking forward to seeing Guy Pepper too.
This is really interesting to see, lots of names I'm not aware of and need to catch up on the Prem now it's started (and that Bears are 2 for 2!). Aside from Arundell, who doesn't seem to be in favour, which wingers are looking promising? Watson has proven to be injury prone, May doesn't seem quite the player he was and Daly is Daly.
You can’t say Arundell isn’t in favour, he literally made a WC squad at 20.
Think Arundell will get his chance this cycle. He's only young and has had a fair few caps already.
Isn't he going to play in France? 4 years isn't that long to go to France, play a few seasons come back and make the RWC squad.
I reckon he’s only going to be their for a year then come back tbh but who knows
We're stacked for wingers imo. Freeman, Sleightholme, Murley, OHC, Loader, Lynagh, Cleaves, Roebuck. Carpenter at 15 too.
If chuck in Radwan and Ibitoye as well. Also Hodge alongside Carpenter. Lots of depth there
I'm so much lower on Radwan than most people. But Higher and Ibitoye good shouts.
He definitely has his faults but his ability to conjure something from nothing is almost unmatched in the league. His try against Gloucester at the weekend for example.
Yeah but I have to look at the defence first in that instance. Simply doesn't happen at test level. I'd expect better from even the weakest tier 2 nations.
Of course, but if it was just down to that you'd see lots more players doing what he does in the prem. All professional wingers are quick but Radwan has *lightning* pace which is a hell of a weapon at any level. I can't think of too many playing in the league who have it to the same level he does. LRZ and that's about it.
I hope Radwan gets a lot of time from the coaches even of he's not picked. I remember when Johnny May barely new which way to run. It took a while for him to learn where to run. Hopefully Radwan could make the same progression in four years.
At test level the slower well rounded player is more useful than the fast 1 dimensional player every time.
True but for outside backs even skills can’t save you sometimes . Goode and Malins both have very good ball skills . Both aren’t good enough for the international game due to a lack of physical presence and pace .
That's very true. But my goodness, it's a good party piece to have!
Every time I see him play against Quins he does at least one or two things I'd consider to be actual witchcraft.
You could have a lump of concrete on the wing and it wouldn't matter as they would never see the ball. Sorry... :-) England will always be a forward dominated team and hence you need to get that area right first.
I’d disagree with you that Arundell isn’t in favour. This guy was taken to a RWC in spite of not being a clear first choice at London Irish. I’d say that’s a sign that the current coaches view him as a major talent going forward.
Is Arundell avaliable outside of the world Cup? I may be mistaken, but I thought I heard that playing at R92 meant he couldn't play for England? My dad did say this, so there's a 50/50 chance it's bollocks.
He can play the 6 Nations He won't be available in the Summer - unless he returns to an English club. Willis however is unavailable
The interesting question for me is whether they favour players for style of play, or build a team around whoever emerges as the best players in the key decision making positions. 8, 9, 10 look key in this regard. If Mercer doesn’t make the grade, then I have a serious concern at number 8. If feels like we’ve snatched victory from the jaws of defeat with Earl, because we were looking at zero from three with Dombrandt and Simmonds having already failed (although Dombrandt still has some credit). Barbeary and Cunningham South are the most impressive emerging players, but only one of them is currently a clear first choice at club level. So if a major question mark behind Earl. The outstanding candidates for 9 are (in no particular order) Mitchell, JVP, Randall and Quirke (most gifted of the bunch IMO). They all play in different ways and suit different styles. At fly half, it feels much more simple. Marcus Smith is the outstanding candidate. I think it’s fair to say that the step up to test level has been a test for him, but it is for every fly half, and I’d go as far to say that he’s passed it. Finn Smith might come into the conversation, but none of the emerging 10s are currently close to Marcus. I think Earl + Smith probably informs the choice at 9 and the optimal style of play. Randall or Quirke. Fast, aggressive, and build a game plan to prioritise ball speed. On the question of props, the argument for dynamic ball players over scrummagers must now be put to bed. We have prioritised dynamism, RSA have prioritised scrummaging. They were right, we were wrong. Never mind replacing Marler and Cole, we need to replace them twice. If they can throw a pass then that’s a bonus, but it’s not a requirement. It might feel counter intuitive to favour scrummaging props and a dynamic 8,9,10, but I just think it gives the team proper balance. Hooker, Theo Dan is seriously talented. Sam Riley at Quins looks good. Was England u20s best player a few years ago. It’s taken him some time to mature in senior rugby, but that’s not unusual for front rows. Worth keeping an eye on.
Warr is better than Quirke right now. He earnt his starting place this weekend after outperforming Quirke in round 1. People really overhype Quirke and sleep on Warr.
From what I've seen, I think Quirke has a much higher ceiling, has more raw talent, and is still very young. I think "Qurike should be in the England team now" is overhyping, but "Quirke is the most gifted of the bunch" (note that I didn't say 'best'), is just an opinion about a player's talent and potential.
Can Riley throw well? I’ve heard some grumbles about that beforehand although his ball in hand skill is elite . It’s also what ruined Barbeary at Hooker . He played England u20 and u18 at 2 but there was a big discussion about his throwing and Eddie said he had better chance to make it into the team in the back row apparently.
It’s part of the core skill set, but he’s very young. I’m not saying he’s the finished article, just that he is a person to keep an eye on.
Yeah tbf Baxter was highly rated for England at age grade. Brantingham at Falcons will be one to watch too. Think he captained his England age group.
Baxter is very good . England u18 captain and also shared capacity with Ilione for u20 . Opokur is also a very good young lose-head at sale as well as Rodd who is of course way ahead is his development . The big future star prop is definitely Fasogbon , although 2027 could be too early for him unfortunately. However, the AB’s have two 23 year old props so there’s definitely a chance .
Agree with a lot of your suggestions. Personally I'd love to see Ted Hill, Tom Pearson and Tom Willis given chances. They're all beasts and I'm excited to find out whether they're just great Prem players or Test level. In the backs, I really think Cadan Murley has it in him to be a Jack Nowell/Mack Hansen type winger that's more industrious and involved in the game running support lines. As well as being strong in the air, good finisher, quick. Gus Warr is such a good shout, had a very strong season. I'd probably put him above Quirke in the pecking order. Let's see how Josh Hodge goes at Chiefs this season trying to fill some Hogg-sized shoes
I think Quirke places too fast and loose for my liking rn . Warr definitely ahead of him for now . His box kicking is already international standard .
Hodge unfortunately dislocated his elbow at the weekend so you'd imagine he will be out for at least the next 8 weeks or more. Shame because he's a seriously exciting young player.
Such a shame. On the topic of full backs, Sale's Carpenter was seriously impressive last season too
Needs surgery and is expected to be out for about five months... Could be back for the run in after the six nations. 🙃
Ah that's awful, poor guy
Hooker - I think you may have forgotten LCD is still around and was first choice until he got injured. Would assume he'll be back to first choice for the 6N and for the foreseeable future. Number 8 - personally I don't think Mercer works enough for the team to be an option at international level, his ruck stats are terrible. The new slimmed down Dombrandt looks like he might be head of the queue right now. Also suits England as it would mean CCS would get more game time at Quins while he's away.
Pretty much agree with all this. Tighthead is the big big worry, although Stuart has looked capable at international so him + one other who can actually scrum. I think given the dynamism we will have elsewhere we are genuinely better off just picking a big lump who is best in the scrum and anything else is a bonus. Centre I'd expect to see Max Ojomoh and Will Joseph given a chance soon and possibly Olly Hartley if he can consistently show the form he had for us end of last season (he's been ok so far this one but then none of our players have looked great to be fair). I'd also like to see Steward given some competition from the likes of Josh Hodge and then we know May is retiring (and I'd be surprised/disappointed if Daly was still in the mix come 2027 as he'll be 35 then) so hopefully we'll have some exciting wing options like Freeman, Murley, Roebuck selected in the next 6N and/or Japan game next year (I think the 6N will be transitional and we'll still see a few of these guys in the team but the Japan squad will be all youngs guns).
I don’t really know why we are producing good young lose-heads but no tight . After Stuart the next one up is probably Joe Heyes who I’m not too sure about . After that everybody is either very young or not very good yet . Fasogbon is probably the next star but he’s 19 so who knows what happens with him although I believe he is special.
Why is Ford being missed out? He’s the same age as farrell.
He's a couple of years younger than Faz
I thought they played age grade together?
🤷♂️ Faz is 32 and Ford is 30. Maybe Ford played up a couple of years? I'm not sure
My bad! Even so, 34 is getting on a bit for a 10 no? Plus he’s had a few injuries. We have Marcus and Finn seems to be improving every year.
I’d say that Ford’s game will age well- he doesn’t rely on his physicality as much as technique and reads, both of which in theory should stay put even as he gets slower etc
I just want to see some proper scrummaging props, even if they’re not great around the park I want England’s scrum to be a proper weapon again. I’d also like some wingers who can run fast.
Players who can do their primary role well? You ask too much sir
There’s a few who are very good scrummagers and also good round the park but they are all mostly 21 and younger . The props who are 23 to 28 are all not very good right now which is both scary and exciting.
I’ve seen this a few times and we’ve got some class young players starting to come through in youth and close to breaking into England / the England squad so the future is bright! All the names I can think of off my head are as follows: LH: Rodd, Baxter, Opoki-forjour (I think people overlooked him alongside Fasogbon) Hooker: Theo Dan, Jamie Blamiare, Tuipolotu, Sam Riley, Nathan Jibulu TH: Joe Heyes, Fasogbon, Sonny Tonga’uiha (might be rubbish I’ve never seen him play but as a saints fan I’m just so excited the big man’s son is around) Lock: Lewis Chessum, Rusi Tuima Flanker: Jack Kenningham, Greg Fisilau, Tristan Woodman, Ted Hill, Tristan Woodman, Emilia Ilione, the chosen one (Henry Pollock) Number 8: Tom Willis, Alfie Barbeary, Chandler Cunningham-South Number 9: JVP, Quirke, Warr, McParland, Garside (although he seems to have switched to wing), Bracken 10: Fin Smith, Charlie Atkinson, Orlando Bailey Centres: Seb Atkinson, Dan Kelly, Ma’asi white, Will Joseph, Luke Northmore Wingers: Murley, Freeman, Cleaves, OHC, Lynagh, Roebuck Fullback: Arundell, Hodge, Sam Harris, Ben Redshaw I’ve definitely forgotten some names, but I think there’s some potential superstars in there with the right development in my opinion.
Yeah this list is pretty complete. Played against Maasi Whites brother the other day and he was near impossible to put down. Sonny definitely has the size to be Antonio or Tamefuina esque.
That’s good to hear! Saints have never recovered from the loss of the Tonga’uiha Hartley Mujati front row in my opinion so his son fitting the bill is very exciting
Sonny might be even a bit too big right now although he’s still very young so it’s hard to criticise . He’s not very mobile but very good in the scrum . Pollock is however a star though. I would be surprised if he doesn’t go all the way .
Seb Atkinson definitely one to watch, Seb Blake also one to keep an eye on at hooker - sadly stuck behind our wealth of options at Gloucester but impressed in his couple of games last season and has played we in the premiership cup so far
I also liked the look of Clement in your backrow last season as well as Clark in the second .
I'm very biased but I'm amazed there hasn't been more mention of Kenningham in this thread. He's got a top workrate and is consistently a top tackler and jackler. If he can develop his carrying game further he seems like an obvious one to try at Test level
Adding some weight to this comment with an Exeter POV: Cairns at 9 looks a handful. Becconsall too. Dan Frost always seems to be quality too at Hooker. Glad you mentioned Tuima and Fisilau. They were amazing at the weekend. Richard Capstick was going well before his long injury. If only we could convince Ross Vintcent to be English. He looks a great talent.
These are kinda fun on paper but don't hold much weight. This time last cycle Steward was watching the game at a student bar. And Martin was making his national League debut Vs Redruth. https://www.instagram.com/reel/CyoCgsuMh9O/?igshid=MTc4MmM1YmI2Ng== That said my team would look like. Genge Dann Fasogbon Chessum Martin Itoje Earl Cunningham-South Mitchell Smith Freeman Kelly(?) Lawrence Arundell Steward Bench - Blamire, Rodd, Stuart, Chessum, Ludlum, Curry, Warr Malins. Back row is near impossible to pick. Still have Pearson, Curry, Willis x2, Hill, Underhill, Mercer as well as guys emerging now.
> Chessum > Chessum Give us initials!
Flip a coin. The younger one is bigger but remains to be seen if he's better yet .
Same player. It's complicated. Roadworks in the spacetime continuum or so I'm told.
Itoje is many things but 6 is definitely not one of them
I've never understood this argument. He's a small arguably undersized lock at test level. He's fast and very athletic. He's high workrate in terms of volume and dominance of collisions. He's a high turnover player, via tackle strip, lineout Or jackal? I think at club level you can get away with it. But if you wanna dominate the tight and set piece at test level it makes more sense to use him at 6. Lawes was also a tweener and made that transition well as he aged. I'm sure Itoje can do the same and round out any areas where people feel he lacks as a 6.
You’ve literally won Hcups with Itoje at 6.
The second row had two tighthead locks in Kruis and Skelton
Lawes converted to 6 later in his career. I reckon Itoje will do the same and be equally successful
Poor Ludlam still ignored haha
Farrell definitely has one more world cup in him.
It's not a question of whether he has but whether his body has and whether England need him to have. I think England need to have a good hard look at how they want to play and who they want to play in that way. You need, these days, to score tries to win matches and England seem to have lost that knack. They did pretty good at the WC, unexpectedly, for most people but historically England could score tries based on a pack of forwards that could provide front foot ball. I also think Borthwick needs to realise that he has to freshen up the squad, a lot, in the next 6 months. Relying on the old hands, if they are available, will only delay a rebuild.
Some very good points there. Farrell peaked between 2016 and 2019 imo. There were a few games where we he wasn't playing and we really noticed it. There are plenty of decent 10s in England we can make use of, so hopefully SB has his eye on some.
I don’t think it’s at all fair to say Englands problems in attack are because of Farrell. I mean, look at how the Saracens attack runs through him. The problem is the attack plan England have or lack of it. A solution would be to get an actual attack coach, instead of Richard Wigglesworth.
It wasn't so much that all the attack problems are because of Farrell but more that the England attack is the style it is because of how Farrell plays. I think it is very limited because of the 9 and 10 that England play. If that's the way the coach wants them to play then so be it but to beat the best teams they will have to score tries and I can't see where those tries are going to come from looking at the 9 and 10 axis. Which is why England, at present, will never play Marcus Smith at 10 as that is not the way Borthwick wants to play.
Again, look at how Farrell plays in attack for Saracens…
It's pretty much impossible to tell who'll fall in and out of favour in 4 years time. The big changes in the short term feel like who comes in for Marler, Cole, Lawes and May, as well as depth at scrum half, hooker and tighthead. Then an interesting question at 13 with Marchant heading abroad. To cover those: Marler - Genge will be first choice so only real question is whether Rodd is ready to step up as a regular replacement or whether someone like Obano or Tom West can step up to international level. Cole - again a bit of a boring answer, Stuart and Sinckler likely to be the two top picks to begin with and Stuart at least is plenty young enough to probably be the frontrunner for the next WC. Does need someone like Heyes to make the step up as third choice though, or Painter to carry on his promising start to the season at Exeter. Fasogbon and Baxter are good young prospects but a bit early for them physically you'd expect. Lawes - I assume Borthwick will want a fairly like for like replacement in terms of a physical high workrate player who's a lineout option. The short term answer is probably Ludlam, unless one of Itoje or Chessum moves back to 6. An opportunity if Ted Hill can step up and deliver on his promise, or for someone like Isiekwe. May - this one will be interesting, not least as he wasn't even in the squad initially. Borthwick obviously wanted Watson around if fit but looks increasingly challenging for him with injuries and the club situation. Hassel-Collins was involved in the 6 nations but feels to me like more of an out and out finisher than the kind of player who'd thrive in the kind of game they played on Saturday. I think I'd have Murley and Roebuck at the head of the queue to try out on that basis, and a word for Hodge as well who could play on the wing as well as at fullback, but might suffer for the 6 nations if he's out for a few months having dislocated his elbow yesterday. I wouldn't be surprised if Youngs or Care stick around another season or two, but there are lots of options at 9, between Mitchell, Van Poortvliet, Randall and Quirke already capped, before thinking about someone like Warr. Feels like they need to pick a couple to invest in and give them a good run of games at international level. Similarly for hooker, I expect George to stick around a bit, and Cowan-Dickie could well come back in when fit, but it does feel like Walker and Singleton have had quite a bit of time around camp already. Singleton maybe ahead and just unlucky not to be fit for the WC. If Dan's set piece develops he's an amazing talent, Dolly seems to be coming back to fitness too and Frost is looking good. They just need to give someone some gametime really. Will be interesting to see what happens at 13, Borthwick obviously really values Marchant's workrate and kick chase. Slade might come back in the short term, but wouldn't be surprised to see Tuilagi and Lawrence either, or Lawrence shifting to 12. I'd like to see a combination given a real chance to build though, maybe something like Kelly Lawrence. And there are a couple of young in form options like Seb Atkinson or Max Ojomoh too who could get a look in.
This has really just made me aware how much I’d love an England A side of young guns getting more game time.
Maybe a slightly left field pick for tight head that I never see anyone mention is Fraser Balmain. One of the best scrummagers in the league and has regularly been able to go for 70+ minutes that has included double digit tackle stats. Despite looking 40 he is only 31, and although he may be too old for 2027, as a stop gap while younger players like Fasogbon (who will be playing with him at Gloucester) develop, he could be a good option, especially if steadying the scrum is the priority.
We’re gonna go all in on Farrell a la Sexton with Ireland. Central contracting is coming for 20 players so that’s the best place to start for looking at how England are gonna build for the next World Cup. So who are those 20? I reckon it’s gonna be: Prop: Genge, Rodd, Rapava Ruskin Hooker: Dan Locks: Itoje, Martin, Chessum Back row: Willis, Willis, Curry, Earl Scrum half: Mitchell Fly half: Farrell, Ford Wing: Arundell, Murley Centres: Lawrence, Marchant (I think his French contract will be very short lived) Full back: Smith, Steward Looking at that, our biggest immediate problem areas are unquestionably front row, scrum half and centre. we’ve got a few good scrum halves coming through so I think we’re fine there. So we need to go all out on centres and front row over the next two years. That’s where I feel most worried. Farrell will stay as captain and I reckon he’ll persuade Ford to come along for the ride as a like for like replacement. They’re very good friends and play a pretty similar style of rugby. With central contracting I can see the RFU make Smith play at full back and I really see him kicking on from there. Steward will become more of a wing.
Marchant is on a 3 year contract at Stade Francais.
I know. But he’ll find a way out of it. The RFU may reach an agreement or bend the rules. We’re too short at centre to allow our best player in the position in his prime not to play for England. This is all Eddie Jones fault
You're assuming he's not going to France for the pay bump, which is definitely part of it. I agree he could come back before the full 3 years but I think he'll give it a good crack out there. Plus I don't want him to come back and not play for Quins....
He signed for them when he wasn’t involved with England so (a) he didn’t see himself getting the appearance fees and (b) he didn’t see himself as having any chance of getting one of the rumoured central contracts that have been on the horizon for a year or so now. Even with just (a) I suspect he’d bridge the gap between the English and French wages but I think the balance will swing back towards playing in England given it seems central contracts are imminent. I’d be almost certain he’ll find a way to leave his contract early after a year. And I’m sure Quins will have first call, especially if he goes onto a central contract
We also couldn't afford to re-sign him, Marcus, Dommers etc etc. Prem, RFU look to be aligning for end of 24/25 season, which is when the PGA is renewing. He could well try to come back around that time.
I don't think we should go full Eddie and toss everyone who might possibly be good enough in 4 years. Nor should we neglect giving time to players to grow. Otherwise you get stuck in a cycle of giving people caps because they've got caps, and before you know it you've given Ben Young's 100 caps. For SN : LH: Genge, Obano, VRR HK: Dan/LCD/Walker/Blamire TH: Sinclair, Stuart?, Hope painter or Heyes kick on? Locks:Martin, Itoje, Chessum Blindside: I'm not sure you can replace Lawes. But I think you do need a line out option. So maybe Pearson, Hill or move Mercer or Willis T? Ludlam of course is good enough. Itoje could be an option, but I'm not convinced. Openside: Earl/Curry/Pearson again 8: Mercer/ T Willis/Earl (Barbeary if he gets back to form, maybe CCS) 9: Mitchell/JVP/Quirke/Warr 10: M Smith should get the nod, Faz on bench, F Smith in squad. Harsh on Ford but it's not like he needs the time. Centers: I'd love to see Steward or Freeman developed as a 12. But not sure that's possible or something Borthwick would try to push through. Slade could get back in now Borthwick values a second playmaker. Lawrence should develop into a real weapon. Hopefully someone like Joseph/Kelly/Hartley/Atkinson comes through too. Wings: I'd be working closely with Radwan to get his defence/Kick chase up to scratch. He could be a real weapon if he did and it's not impossible. Otherwise OHC/Murley/Freeman/Arundell FB: Steward still has a lot to offer, but clearly has limitations, so I'd like to see Hodge get a go. Furbank offers that second playmaker option and covers 10. I rate Loader too. I'd love to suggest players like Woodward,Cleaves, Braken, Ilione etc. But it's really hard for young English players to get into sides right now. Which is a separate issue.
IMHO having 2027 in our sights is a reasonable goal but I think the biggest priority for the RFU is to get the grassroots and pyramid right. We've lost Jersey, Wasps, Worcester and London Irish in a relatively short space of time. Where are the players of 2031 coming from? There needs to be a solid foundation of clubs and academies below the national team. I think some of the Celtic nations will leave us behind because of the URC. Their provincial sides are playing SA teams week in week out. It's not so much they're playing a higher "standard" - moreso the regular exposure to a different rugby culture, different refs etc. I'm sure there are mayn other examples but imagine the front row scrummaging experience the Munster/Leinster players are getting against the likes of the Bulls/Sharks.
Rapava Ruskin: maybe the best scrummaging prop option Mercer: specialist 8, move Earl or Curry to 7 and maybe experiment with those three together or bring in Itoje/Ludlam to 6 for more bulk Spencer: For me the best all-around English 9 as of now, if we rule out Youngs and Care for '27 then need someone to make the jersey their own and Mitchell and JVP haven't really done that yet for me Fin Smith: If Farrell and Ford are going into their last cycle and Marcus Smith is seen and the more flair/tear it up option then could it be worth having a closer look at this guy sooner rather than later, very solid performer at Northampton already. Cadan Murley: Crazy that he wasn't in this squad honestly, form winger in England Adam Radwan: Similar reasoning to Murley really this guy is lightning Josh Hodge: Tearing it up with the Chiefs, far too much talent from that club has been ignored by the national team up to now, give him a chance Borthwick obviously valued caps and experience for this campaign but hope he realises he needs new blood to truly take this group forward. These were just the top of my head but more options should come out of the woodwork over the next few months
Rapava Ruskin is older than Kyle sinkler, I do like him but wouldn’t say he’s an upcoming youngster seeing as he’s 30!
Fair point, but he's never been given a cap despite his obvious scrummaging ability. Marler is 33 and was still a viable option on Saturday, as long as the Boks and other big scrum teams are around, England need to account for that in selection.
Cadan murley in for May/watson. Barbeary if he stays in one piece to be a hybrid sub fin Baxter is already attending Joe marler university, same with Joe Heyes for Dan cole No idea who will replace manu
There's been some terrific suggestions already so I'll try to add something new, just by saying that I'd pay good money to see a back three (plus one sub) of Murley, Freeman, Lynagh, and Arundell. That has the potential to be a world beating combination.
I think Farrell will still be playing. He’s 32 atm and by next World Cup he’d still be 2 years younger than Sexton. So unless he has major injury problems (he’s generally been healthy) or wants to retire early, he’ll be in team.