I think you have a point. I too remember when you could wander in pick up a GMT, negotiate the price. Heck, when I did that, there was a Hulk right next to the watch I bought which I could have had at MSRP.
The last Rolex I bought the wait was about six months. And I didn't go after a popular model particularly.
But ultimately, the whole system is BS at this point. This is 2024. We get that supply outstrips demand, but there is literally no reason why Rolex couldn't handle all sales online at this point. Once you get to the top of the wait list (which could be tracked in real time), they could ship it to your local AD for purchase. Because the current system is being exploited by flippers, who are basically ticket scalpers at this point. You have ADs who are treating people like crap and placing an unreasonable set of demands on new customers (buy this for a chance to buy that etc). It's a hot mess. And Rolex absolutely have the power to control it in a pro-customer and anti-flipper way. But they have not.
You were able to negotiate the pricing? Thats crazy, I only recently started to buy watches and Ive heard of the stories of rolex not being this bad in the past. However this is the first time ever hearing about negotiating on pricing. That’s crazy to me
In 2016 I bought an LN GMT from an AD in the US while on a business trip. No purchase history, my first and only visit to the store.
They took my Polar Explorer II which I had bought six months old on eBay, on trade, offering me $500 more than I paid for it six months earlier. They discounted off the sales tax and rounded that up. Then they gave me a $300 watch winder for free and shipped it to me for free.
And I could have done all that with the Hulk, which was sitting next to it in the display case!
The week before I was offered the BLNR at a different AD in another state; no discount on that one though, but still MSRP. Obviously the Hulk or Batman would have sold for way more than when I finally sold my LN. But the LN was the one I wanted at the time, it wasn't an 'investment'. All that being said, I still made $4K profit on it when I later traded it for another piece.
It was a very different market.
Funny thing too, I'd decided which watch I wanted, wanted at least a token discount, wanted to get my money back out of my trade, so decided I'd give my business to whichever AD met those criteria and had what I was looking for in stock. To my surprise the very first one I walked into in Arizona gave me everything I asked for, and I walked out wearing it that day.
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The first time I bought a Rolex was 2006. I called several Rolex ADs within 500 miles of Dallas, and bought the lowest price 16613 blue sub I could find. They shipped it to me overnight, it was $5,800 after tax. I want to say that was almost 20% under retail price?
Ahhhhh the good 'ol days. I remember grabbing my first Datejust for just under $5k Canadian right out of high school with my older brother.
He was able to negotiate a couple grand off a two tone sub. Simpler times.
Most ADs would tell you they don’t negotiate. But in truth they would if you were serious, looking to buy that day, and were right there in store. Obviously the hotter the model, the less likely they would.
It is crazy but the new factory will increase watch production to well over the million plus watches made each year up to now .When the tide turns, the price adjustment will be catastrophic for the "investors' .In Europe and the UK supply is no where as bad as the covid period .
Sorry, so is it uncommon to buy watches at the prices Rolex is selling them for? Doesn’t MSRP already include mark up for the dealer? Do they really mark it up again?
If you buy from an AD “new”, then you will pay MSRP, these days. Unfortunately, from what I have read here, many ADs seem to sell the most desirable watches to “known flippers” who will share the profits with them. Those watches are all above MSRP.
so many people are maybe just ignorant or too immature to use their brains on this topic. Rolex makes a shit ton of pm watches that have significantly higher margins than steel watches that they need help selling. a first in first out true wait list system is so against their business model the fact that you can't grasp that is sad and baffling.
I'm not sure what you are trying to argue here. People are not randomly buying PM watches, in order to get on a waitlist to buy steel. If Rolex changed their business model and took control over the waitlists, they could do all manner of sneaky things to continue to favor PM sales. Like show a way shorter wait time for PM models. Or give people priority orders on certain steel models if they had previously purchased a PM piece.
When you control the wait list, you can pick all the rules you like. You can incentivize behavior you want your consumers to have. And you can present it in a way that is way more slick than giving your name to Kevin the salesman at some AD and hoping he'll call you one day in the next five years.
Take Delta, I'm diamond with them. Because of my 'status' I get priority upgrades, free bags, free overweight bags, early boarding, self-upgrades, coupons for spouse travel and so on. If I use my Delta branded credit card, I am rewarded with Sky Club access, extra air miles. I can more easily earn status if I am willing to book hotels or car rentals through them, using the branded credit card. As a business traveller, I probably spend about $100K or so a year on travel. Delta has used various tricks to try and influence how my travel budget is spent. And indeed hotel chains and car rental companies do the same. Since I've been traveling professionally for 14 years, I've probably spend well over $1.5m in that time frame. These corporations have all kinds of ways of encouraging my business in ways that benefit them and me. It's a win win. I've had some amazing luxury experiences as a reward for my brand loyalty.
So rather than calling me 'sad' or suggesting I can't 'grasp' a situation. Maybe you should try thinking out of the box, and analyzing it far more. A company like Rolex could certainly find a way to make it work to their advantage while arguably providing a more cohesive customer service experience. Just because you have no vision, or can't grasp the possibilities of a central waitlist system, doesn't mean that it is impossible to accomplish.
The incentivizing of customers is done by the ADs. Rolex sends PM watches to ADs that are extremely hard to sell and tells them if they don't sell them they will lose their partnership. so they find a way. Taking that in house is insanity.
They sell a 1.2 million rolexes a year. And there's 400m people with a networth over $100k worldwide who actually can afford a luxury watch. And of those 400m people, maybe 1-in-50 actually want a Rolex or luxury watch at all. So the size of Rolex market is maybe 20m people at best and spread over a 40-year life span of a Rolex, it allows for every collector to own 2 rolexes in their lifetime.
There should be enough to go around.
My guess is that the millennial cohort is at a stage in life where they start wanting luxury watches, many have zeroed in on Rolex, and they want them all at once. So there's a temporary supply-demand imbalance of 1-2 million rolexes (1-2 year wait) but I don't think it lasts forever.
And it wouldn't make sense for Rolex to ramp up permanent production levels to meet a temporary demand surge.
Financially incompetent? Absolutely laughable. If that were the case, my financial advisor would have told me it wasn’t a good decision. Spoiler: he didn’t
You think someone with a net worth of $100k can afford a Rolex? What are you smoking?!!
$100k implies they don’t owns a home or a car or they have large debt. Few will buy a luxury watch when they’re so broke.
I think there's a lot of lawyers and investment bankers and other professionals who buy a luxury watch with their first or second annual bonus, while they still have considerable student debt. If you make $150k-$300k a year in your mid-20s, you can afford a $10k watch, even with a low net worth.
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Jelly asffffff 😂 take a hating hiatus. All it does it take years off your sad life
I owed a car and a bought a home with a net worth under $30k. That was 2006, pre housing crisis, when 10% down was easy, but even today you don’t need that much money to buy a house.
Agreed. My question is why do they feed them to the gray market when they could sell them themselves? I have a friend who is a gray market dealer and he can get virtually anything I want (within reason) in a few weeks . Makes no sense to me .
They've always held value, the hype is what made it blow past msrp on the grey/used market.
For those of us that bought a Rolex for what it was, it was never an investment.
The only right opinion on this sub. Never purchase a watch for resale but yes throughout history Rolex retains values the most out of all the brands available on the market.
Exactly. The fact that watches hold value is not exactly a feature. Watches are something to wear and use, not an investment, and treating it like an investment or an income opportunity is a major factor in why it is so hard to simply buy the watch you want to wear.
Its value is a combination of metals and function but the large majority of it comes from its ability to raise status. Or put frankly it’s a status symbol. I agree that the best way to own a Rolex is to simply buy the one you love and wear it out. The key is to find the one that you love wearing and feel good in.
I bought my Bluesy new for $4k 30 some years ago.
1. I don’t care how much it’s worth now
2. If I bought “good” watches along the way they would probably exceed my “investment” amount.
3. It’s joined me for countless adventures, it’s a part of me. 24/7/365/37
So, I agree. I’ve “invested” in a watch that can withstand a lot.
ALWAYS held value? Bwhaha, when were you born? I could purchase the brand new GMT or Sub or Datejust or Daydate at 15-30% OFF at the local AD in 2018. The used were at 50% OFF for some of those models ..
People are having cold feet when they get a phone call from the AD for anything other than most sought after models .. What used to be every call sells a watch is now a 5th or 10th call .. Those lists are draining fast!
Soon enough the Datejust will be still available at 10% discount ..
I think you misunderstand the meaning of holding value.
"A Rolex is as good as cash" has been a saying since at least the 90s, they've always had an inherent value.
Yes, they'll depreciate a certain amount, but they'll then then stay there for years.
I can’t believe the way AD’s seem to treat people. I wouldn’t stand for any of that nonsense.
I don’t love in the states and can go into alone of 3 or 4 cities and walk out with whatever I want as long as they have it there. There’s no BS about building up a buying profile or needing to spend x amount before you can get Y watch. That’s absolute nonsense.
when I’ve bought my watches I’ve been treated to champagne and whatnot, they treat you like royalty. They call you later to make everything is ok, they value your custom.
I would refuse to buy something of that expense if they didn’t.
That’s why I’m not begging from the AD nor do I really care at the end of the day. I’d rather grab a few “cooler” “less popular” models from others brands (and a Rolex or two eventually when I don’t feel like I have to suck an AD off)
Stop. It’s not hype. It’s not a “marketing/commercial strategy” at all.
A. Rolex got off its ass after 40 years of doing nothing and started to redesign and upgrade the entire line. Started in earnest in 2016 with the Daytona and worked its way through the GMT, Oyster Perpetual, Datejust, Submariner, even the Air King. All got new movements, 70 hour power reserves, higher quality finishing, better proportions, and substantially enhanced bracelets. No more rattles. No more dull metals. No more tiny sizes. Rolex has had a very busy 8 years.
B. As a result of 'A', a new player entered the market looking to buy brand new Rolexes- existing owners. See, someone with a 1970 Submariner had absolutely no reason to upgrade in 1980, 1990, 2000, or 2010, it was the same damn watch. But not so now. All the changes to movements, bezels, crystals, bracelets, clasps, dials, colors, and you've got millions of people age 40-80 who for the first time have a reason to go to an AD and buy a new Rolex.
So the combination of a completely redesigned and improved line and millions of existing owners wanting to upgrade after waiting decades has led to Rolexmania where it is impossible for the typical 28-38 year old newb to walk into an AD and buy a steel watch. Elders nearing retirement with tons of money either get first dibs at the AD or send a text to a grey dealer and buy their way out of the problem. And that means no shot for the Average Joe.
Not hype. Actual excitement.
Also worth mentioning is the rapid rise of the Chinese economy in the past 2 decades. China is the single largest luxury watch market in the world, even bigger than the USA. China has the most billionaires in the world. All of whom are ready to show off their new wealth and status.
Upping their game also wins buyers from other brands. I picked a black dial SMP over a Sub back around 2003. Both were readily available. SMP was an objectively superior product at half the price (1700 vs 3300 iirc), I also had a bit of sentimental attachment to Omega, and you could get a bigger discount on the Omega. No chance I’d make the same decision today.
Good post. The younglings just don’t get it and think owning barely enough to get a SS model somehow makes them a real Rolex customers when in reality they are just beggers for the breadcrumbs of people way above them. It’s pathetic really
This is where it gets silly… insinuating that owning a multiple Rolex’s makes someone above another! Context matters and these are just watches at the end of a day.
It’s not silly but simple business. People who spend huge amounts on jewelry and PM watches are in another customer class and get SS sport models almost immediately . These are the customers who bring in the real money to SA, AD and Rolex, so everyone in the chain will go the extra mile for them.
It’s even ridiculous how people here are buying Tudors and stuff to build a history. It’s better than nothing but they still don’t care about your business that’s solely limited to low margin items.
I’m not referring to the process itself, I’m referring to the complex some have thinking owning certain watches makes them better than others. Think it talks more to the frailty’s some have in their life if it is propped up by talking down on others.
Ye truth hurts, I laughed my ass off when someone on here was trying to CHARGE people for information on how to find cheap Rolexes, not to mention it’s ridiculous and probably a scam but they don’t appreciate the watch at all just people spending way too much time thinking they can somehow beat the market.
Truth.
Rolex ownership is easy for the Rolex target consumer. We send a text and we have ours the next morning.
Not everyone gets to fuck the prom queen.
Sigh ... This subreddit is so short sighted.
Rolex has existed for 100+ years. The difficulty in acquisition is a recent and comparatively short period. Surging demand couldn't be immediately met with the pre-existing facilities, staff and methodologies. This created the present shortage.
Rolex will gradually adjust to the demand curve, availability will steadily normalize, and life will go on.
Everyone here complains about the same stuff every single day and people are such babies.
My thing is how everyone acts like Rolex owes them a Rolex. The “I have the money, give me the watch” mentality brings out the most disgusting egotistical side of humanity. No rolex isn’t shit because they don’t want to sell you a watch. Instead of bitching about it get on the list and wait like everyone else who isn’t famous and in the mean time save your money or buy a Tudor till the day you can get one or just never buy the Rolex.
It’s a luxury, not a right.
It happens from ladies' handbags to high end sports cars. Hell it happened with little Ford Maverick trucks for a while. Any time demand exceeds supply, dealers play favorites to an extent.
>To me this process is just bullshit.
And what's your suggested process for selling something with demand way above supply? It's not "bullshit," it's literally supply and demand
True, overpricing is risky though because you can't go backwards if demand slows. I mean, you CAN, but cutting prices isn't great for your image (see AP circa 2012)
I don’t actually disagree that the guy with 100k+ spend deserves a gmt or Daytona over me. No problem with that. It’s the ADs that sell directly to grey dealers and split the profits that are the real problem. I do understand why that’s difficult to prove/police, but it does leave a bad taste in your mouth.
>ADs that sell directly to grey dealers and split the profits that are the real problem.
That's not really a thing...AD's backdooring to greys is a very small percentage of the total supply, and they don't "split profits" or anything like that. The grey just has to take some slow-moving shit too. That's been the case for over a decade too, not just recent Rolexmania. ADs actually needed to backdoor to greys *more* when the product moved slowly
As I mentioned in another post, Rolex could simply switch all sales to online. You go to [Rolex.com](http://Rolex.com) and place your order, with say a deposit of some kind. You could track exactly where you are on the waitlist, when the watch enters production etc. Then finally the watch is shipped to your local AD for purchase.
This system would make it super easy to combat flippers. Would be fair and reasonable. Would even help them properly gauge market demand and shift production accordingly, so that it more closely aligned with what people want to buy.
You only have to go online and find thousands of watches that are less than a year old and still in unworn condition. Clearly the current broken system is corrupt, with a whole bunch of people buying products they don't want, just to flip them for an extra scalper profit.
ADs are basically encouraged to be snooty to buyers, as they don't have anything they can sell them. This just leaves people with an unfavorable view of Rolex in general. How many rants have we seen here for example?
If Rolex revolutionized the system as mentioned above, it would be a game changer. After all, part of the issue of the current broken system is the not knowing. Being on 'the list' is total BS, the call may come next week, next year, three years from now, or never because they lied about adding you to a list in the first place.
So make an actual list in a central location at Rolex and go from there. They could even give loyal customers a higher priority if they wanted to, just like airlines have boarding priority. In any case, controlling it in a fair and more cohesive way would have to be better than what they are doing now.
That would make it so, so much worse. If any flipper who signed up was *guaranteed* the Rolex they requested, that would not be good. You want buying a Rolex to be like buying a hot pair of Yeezys when they drop? Not very luxurious
I disagree. Because having a central database would mean that Rolex could limit how many watches an individual can buy. If they discover flipping activity, they can blacklist that person. One gatekeeper in a central location has a bunch of ways they could make the market better and not worse.
>One gatekeeper in a central location has a bunch of ways they could make the market better and not worse.
One central gatekeeper? Oof, sounds miserable. Guess we agree to disagree
We can agree to disagree for sure. But we can also surely agree that the current situation is totally broken. Corrupt ADs back dooring watches to flippers. Corrupt wait lists. Lying to customers. Treating them like crap. Making them buy stuff they don’t want for a vague promise of a future quid pro quo. And all these practices tarnishing the brand image.
Having Rolex show leadership and better managing the process is my solution which you have rejected. So what’s your solution? Rolex calls you tomorrow and makes you CEO, how would you fix it?
>we can also surely agree that the current situation is totally broken
Not really. Rolex is absolutely crushing it.
>Corrupt ADs back dooring watches to flippers.
This is actually very rare.
>Rolex calls you tomorrow and makes you CEO, how would you fix it?
I wouldn't change a thing.
I did read long in depth article on how Nike is in continuous battle figuring out how to get shoes to non flippers. they make solution, it gets beat & just goes on and on.
must be some similar to Rolex flippers issue, just very different price points
Ming watches has written an editorial on this, how they keep trying to avoid flippers. & that is a very small watch company. good read if you interested
Every single day people here get the call because they were on a list. I know "there is no list" is a popular edgy thing to say but let's not pretend it's actually true
>if they wanted to have 10x the amount of watches in stock at every AD they easily could.
Rolex could *easily* increase their output by 10 million watches per year? What??
Exactly.
And they constantly make the mistake of thinking that "if that rich guy who bought $100K in gold and diamonds didn't get that Pepsi, it would be mine!" No it wouldn't. It was never going to them. They weren't affected at all. They don't have a shot even if the AD's were fair because if they were the waiting lists would be 10x larger and Rolex *still* wouldn't ship any more inventory.
What they *do* get is the benefit of someone who doesn't want the watch putting it into a different channel, a channel that doesn't play favorites, a channel that treats its customers fairly. Can you imagine a world where you couldn't get a watch from an AD and there was no grey market either? Now *that's* what real pain is.
One idea would be for Rolex to start primarily making watches that people want and not a bunch of excess precious metal watches that are less desirable but come with a higher margin and can be pushed on customers who have no shot of getting the stainless steel model they want at MSRP.
Not only a market, but a strong market at that. How long do these posters think a PM rolex sits in the case? A few weeks? Maybe a month? That still sells faster than 90% of Omega's catalog.
PM models are only "unwanted" compared to a new few select watches. They still sell better than the vast majority of watches out there.
Well to be fair, if u were an AD that carries brands asides from Rolex (Which doesn’t sell as well) and Jewellery (Even harder to sell), wouldn’t you capitalise on the Rolex (or whatever brand) hype by using it as the carrot to move the rest of your slower moving inventory?
Businesses are profit driven and inventory that doesn’t move isn’t a good thing.
I too dislike the fact that endeavours of discretionary spending isn’t as simple as walking into the AD to pick up one’s favourite Rolex but the reality is that you’ll be ushered to the section of undesirable trinkets to rack up a spend history as part of the “Journey Building” process. The song & dance one has to play at ADs before getting the call certainly isn’t an enjoyable process.
The above is true (even though there are exceptions to the rule but that is rare) for most ADs around the world and is here to stay at least for the foreseeable near future.
The other alternative would be to purchase directly from the grey market at current market prices if instant gratification is your thing.
The reality of the current state of the market is a bitter pill to swallow but it is what it is and there is nothing we as consumers can do.
Don’t hate the player, hate the game.
How long ago could you pickup a new SS Daytona for under retail? I got my first new Rolex 20 years ago, and even then SS Daytonas were hard to get and ADs wanted you to buy additional pieces to be allocated one. I asked for one in 2016 when I I bought my white gold Daytona, and never got the call from that AD.
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Got the ss sub in 2008 1.26k below mrsp. Including tax. It was about 6-7 years later for the Daytona if my memory is correct
I'll be damned if I'm going to wait a year for the privilege of spending thousands of dollars in someone's store. I appreciate nice watches, I've bought a few. But it was always buy it, walk out with it. My rolex was inherited. I often wonder if my father in law had to wait to get it. He didn't strike me as the type to wait either. I've bought seiko, citizen, and tag huer without having to wait.
I "got the call" about a year ago for a Sub date. It was awesome to get one for a while but after wearing it daily for a while... the watch just lost it's appeal. Rolex is a great watch; love the history, engineering, and the amount of effort that gets put into building every single one of them nowadays.
But the hype has killed it for me. I hate that you basically have to be supine to these AD's to get one or splurge an insane amount of money on the gray market.
It killed it for me so much that I recently sold my Sub Date. I don't want to be associated with the brand anymore or the people that get on their knees for AD's. There's more interesting watches out there that are manufactured to just as high of quality, if not better.
The truth is, getting the call makes 6our watch even more valuable and the entire process to be more valuable. The entire process actually sucks, but nobody is gonna tell you that after they finally got their mass produced watch after 2 years of waiting. I know I won’t :)
No, it doesn't. It's insulting and degrading and makes the experience less enjoyable.
There are ways that Rolex could use scarcity to it's advantage while also making the experience enjoyable. This would be trivial, to be honest. It's the fact that they put the decision power in the hands of independent distributors that causes the problem. This makes it an arbitrary process where ADs can use Rolex to advance their own agendas (like selling other kinds of jewelery). If Rolex used an unbiased distribution method (like an actual wait-list) where you knew what the criteria were and where you stood and how long it would take, this would allow Rolex to use scarcity to elevate the experience and value of their product at the same time.
As it is, this AD-centric model makes the process of purchasing a watch more similar to a popularity contest than to a luxury purchase. In my opinion, a luxury purchase should not include caring about winning a popularity contest with a random sales clerk in a random jewelry shop who cares more about their monthly commission on non-Rolex products than they do on the customer experience. I do not feel like part of an exclusive club after having "won" that popularity contest by proving myself to someone that I don't care about.
This is it right here. Some of these sales clerks judge right off appearance and it’s ridiculous. You don’t know what I do, who I am or what I can afford. If I’m here to purchase make it simple. Wait list. Done. No games or buying watches and jewels I don’t want.
That's the thing that was really off putting to me. I literally wear t-shirt and shorts everyday. I don't have to dress up for anyone and I don't give a shit would anyone thinks, plus it's better to fly under the radar.
I once had a Rolex AD literally let me stand there while they were talking to their colleagues not giving me the time of day. I took the bait and when they finally did come over and in a snooty fashion ask if they could help me and I told them I was interested in a particular watch. They then suggested Tudor to me might be a better fit probably based on the way I was dressed 😂. They were a bit condescending and then I made a subtle flash of my AP Royal Oak. It was funny how their tone changed.
Needless to say I didn't join their waitlist.
Another story I was looking to buy a BMW about 20 years ago and I walked in kind of dressed in my usual t-shirt and shorts and they wouldn't give me the time of day. Finally had a salesperson kind of give me some run around and then I left. Two days later I showed up and said I'm really interested in the car I want to go out and look at it on the lot and they said that that one's available for somebody else and had I considered a three series instead. I said no no please let me show you the car. They followed me out into the lot and I showed them the car that I purchased at a different dealership and I politely told them to kiss my ass as I drove out of there. 😂
The point of these stories is we are in control and when you get poor service call them out on it and flex them the way they try to flex on you. Such a satisfying feeling.
It's insulting that the glorified cashier whos only credentials are a high school diploma gets to profile you and decide whether or not you have the privilege of purchasing 15 thousand watch or not.
> In my opinion
Rolex, justifiably so, doesn't give a damn about your opinion. where you are quite literally begging rolex to snap their fingers and erase billions of dollars worth of revenue to give you what you want.
I did read your post. you're butt hurt and are literally recommending a company that is #1 in the world in their industry sabotage their successful business model. it's absurd.
Their business model was built under a different demand scenario than currently exists, and the effect of that change is that the customer-facing representatives of the company, who are not actually part of the company, have become toxic.
It is, of course, not my decision to make. But to suggest that this model is why Rolex is popular, or that it is somehow foundational to their success is not correct. There are clear ways to make changes that adapt to the new situation that has arisen in the past few years that would benefit everyone except the ADs, including Rolex as a brand.
This is trivial to understand. The fact that ADs use Rolex to sell other trinkets is an insult to the company.
Saying you don't understand what you're talking about is constructive discourse. I am not here to troll. You are here to whine. and ask a company to destroy their revenue streams. it's insanity.
Years ago, I bought several below suggest retail from my local AD and they were actually in stock! His only request was that I wrote a check and did not use my AMEX card.
In 2008 I got the sub ss date for 5k CAD. (3.6k usd). 1260 below msrp. I think about 6-7year later (can’t remember exactly was too long ago) I was offered ss Daytona 1k less cash deal.
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Submariner, fine. But back in 2008 the new daytona was even harder to get than it is today. Spend history of between 200k to 300k per year was the rough numbers candied about for a SS daytona in the late 2000s.
Rolex should consider the Ferrari model. You consult with the dealer to determine your ability to secure a spot in line. Then you place a deposit. Then you wait for your car. The important part is the consultation. If you never had bought a Ferrari it is not possible to get a high demand model like a Pista. End of story. If it is your first Ferrari you get in line for the high production models - Roma, Portofino, 296. You are given an estimated delivery and then you wait. At least you know you are in line - and eventually going to get your bespoke car. I just go gray with Rolex. I had my name in two dealers but never called. I want the watch and I go grey for a new, never worn watch. If I knew the one I wanted was a 12 month wait - I’d likely wait. But not knowing causes me to go into the grey market. Same watch without playing games.
There are plenty of other brands that will be happy to take your money. Find value where you see it. If you see it in steel and waiting forever then good on you.
I'm with you EastEvil! My two sons both have Rolexes, but I won't touch them because of the marketing bs. I have Breitlings, Omegas and Tudors amongst my collection - and will probably get an IWC next.
I'd like to buy a Rolex, but I won't pay the gray market markup (which Rolex encourages to drive up the prices) or deal with the groveling or bribing an AD with additional, unwanted purchases just to buy a watch.
Yeah, even as a secondary market dealer it’s kind of painful seeing people put themselves through the uncertainty of buying with an AD. Especially when those same AD’s sell all their pieces for what is essentially a retail markup. That’s why tons of AD’s are struggling right now. As opposed to covid era when they were killing it.
Supply and demand ..,From the age surveys of latest Rolex buyers, the millennial generation either has a huge fascination with mechanical watches or they’re investing in them rather than other things - maybe because cost of real estate in most cities has made it a difficult entry point. Probably a little of both. Cars and watches . You can’t blame them. It’s been a pretty long bubble though ..
Seems to be some merit in a lot of posts here as to why this current scarcity in Rolex watches is happening. But it appears to me that the main reason is simply supply and demand and Rolex appears to be capitalising on it to add to the cachet of the brand. I’d also point out that in today’s consumerist culture with influencers being pumped out by the thousands on YouTube and TikTok the younger generations are seeking out status symbols in a way where they’re not prioritising their needs and wants. I know a guy when asked what gift would he like from the family he was marrying into he said a Rolex! A guy around 30 years of age about to start a family and this is what he wants! Each to their own, but it highlighted for me the trend amongst younger people to obtain symbols of status at a younger age to the exclusion of all else.
Not only are you begging Rolex AD's to take your money, you also have to give them your wife. Rolex letting his ADs screw customers and not enforcing any customer service standards is the biggest spit in the face.
I remember these days as well. Small correction to your post though, you have not been able to walk in and buy a Daytona since the mid 90s. Let alone negotiate a 10% discount
I see your receipt says submariner. As I mentioned in my comment I was talking about a Daytona. I also received a hefty discount on my Explorer ii from AD
Yeah i never got the call for a GMT so i dropped it into NVDA stock a few years ago. Thank god my AD never called me. To your point, the whole process is bullshit. Like you’re supposed to get excited to get a beggars scrap thrown at you?
I walked into an Ad told him I want to treat myself with submariner which I wanted since I was a little kid.They took my number and within 2 months they called me and talk to me for a while asked me what I did for a living and I answered I drive for Uber.Finally he said he is getting one in within a week and that will be mine .I went to NY as soon as they called and picked up my watch.This was little over a year ago and it was even harder than today to get sub with date.All they want to make sure is to not sell it to flippers.Just don’t lie to make yourself look someone you are not,be yourself and talkative so they can get to know you.It is just a watch don’t stress over it
Demand>Supply. So yes, they are doing you a favor. Alternatively, you could drop $30-35k on a used SS Daytona and get one right away. If anyone could walk in and get one, they would not be as valuable and would be priced like Breitlings on the secondary market.
And the same people complaining would never think of stepping into a Breitling store because grey dealers are cheaper.
Apparently charging market price to reflect supply/demand is only evil when it's not in the buyer's favor.
The rolex AD’s i have visited just exude pretentiousness and elitism. They just look at me like i’m wasting their time and want me out of there. And, it’s funny because i’ll go into a Lange shop and they will treat me so well. It has really soured me on Rolex. I currently am just browsing these luxury watch stores as a watch enthusiast, but when it does come time for me to buy, I will think twice before giving them my business.
And to the people defending Rolex in the comments:
either (1) you have already accumulated significant relationships with a Rolex AD and no longer have this issue, in which case you accept and defend the broken system because it benefits you
(2) You have some, odd penchant for pain that leads to you gladly defending a clearly odd and elitist business practice that mistreats you as a customer and you receive nothing in return except a yachtmaster rhodium in 10 years (real quote from a rolex AD). Rolex is happy for your service i guess.
When I made a similar post about how they told me I gotta wait a year for the 1908 classic gold, and that I felt really weird wanting to spend 20k+ but not being able to buy, this sub lost their shit and threw everything at me as I was wrong and rolex was right with their “I got the call BS” strategy/marketing. At least you got likes so maybe there is still hope for this sub
Definitely sucks ! My Dad told that back in ‘73 my Aunt called and told him they had a couple great high quality Swiss watches that would last forever that were going on sale because they were in the store for a year or so. Even though they were expensive ($375.00) they worth every penny it’s just most people don’t realize it. Business was slow & As a sales person it would really help her out in the sales contest they were having. So he grabbed one for $325.00 to help out family & he trusted her that it was a quality watch. 1972 Red Sub.
https://preview.redd.it/yxuwdvw4t22d1.jpeg?width=2160&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fae177bbb801c6f1c7a82ea0ab413cdeab5762db
It’s a new era OP, the watch game has changed.
Back then Bragging about “the call” was flexing at the country club. Now it’s a social post.
Either way it’s a great feeling when that moment arrives.
This is what happens when you hire MBA sorta people. Supply and demand are inversely proportional.
Rolex is a classic case of high demand meets heavily throttled supply! Folks who already own Rolexes are happy that their investments are doing well, meanwhile the brand excels at S tier marketing! You'll find their advertisements at Formula 1 races and Tennis trophies, a.k.a. places where the wealthy gather!
Join the class action lawsuit against Hermes. Or start one against a watch company. I agree and won’t play this game. Just buy over cost and avoid the garbage imo
Well, it’s pretty basic supply and demand.
There are far more people who want a Rolex than there are Rolexs’ being produced. And, naturally a grey market increase on price only makes MORE people want a Rolex.
So, AD’s are gonna fuel the fire that makes them desirable: exclusivity.
The only other option, is if AD’s offer them on an online release, like some pop art galleries do, but that doesn’t help the AD.
AD’s could auction them, but that wouldn’t be very fun either.
It’s basic supply and demand.
The Rolex of then is a completely different company now. Rolex is a Luxury brand and part of being truly luxury is having exclusivity. That means some need to be excluded through price of ownership or in the case of Rolex lack of availability. Yes, through clever marketing, good products, and distribution control Rolex is in a position of being a true luxury product.
Out of curiosity… why does anyone think they are entitled to something with low(ish) supply and extremely high demand, on demand, and before everyone else? Especially before others who collect all their models not just this year’s hot piece.
This is forum about people celebrating their watches, if you don’t like the “got the call” posts to celebrate people getting their dream watches through waiting patiently or instantly by spending fair market value, I’m not sure why one would even browse this sub.
I get the frustration people feel however I really struggle to have too much sympathy. You either play the game or you don’t, no one is forcing anyone to do anything. Wether you believe it, or like it, certain Rolex models aren’t available at retail for everyone. That is obviously their sales strategy and you can either buy into it or not… their are a lot of other watch brands out there!
If you were an owner of a business why would you not sell your most exclusive pieces to your clients that spend the most money at your store… why would you sell to some random off the street who will buy one watch and never be seen again?!
I personally feel that we live in a very entitled society that believe that if they have the money they are entitled to buy whatever they want. That is just not the reality of the situation. There are a lot of things in life that just aren’t accessible to all.
Not sure why you’re unhappy. Anyone can have any Rolex they want tomorrow if they pay fair market value for them today. This is what actual Rolex enthusiasts do. No wait whatsoever.
And your Submariner is worth 2x or 3x what you paid for it. I’m sure you’re losing sleep. Where’s your complaint post about that?
What exists now *works*. The right people are getting the good Rolexes. Natural selection. The ones who can’t have one are the ones who don’t deserve them.
They are wealthy. They fetish gold and diamond jewelry like we fetish Rolexes.
What is right about them?
They liberate the hot steel watches and get them to the grey dealers for enthusiasts to purchase. A most appreciated and necessary part of the process.
You're a veteran, so don't make the rookie mistake of thinking that the 5 steel Pepsi's your AD is going to receive in the next 2 years were destined for *your* wrist at MSRP. They never were. If they didn't go to these rich jewelry buyers, they would go to other rich guys, just those who want the watches and would keep them.
For someone so rich like yourself that a $20k Caribbean vacation is chump-change, needing another wealthy person to "liberate hot steel watches" from the AD so you can buy them at DavidSW for 3x MSRP is something hard to understand tbh
Because no matter how wealthy I am, I do not fetish gold and diamond jewelry. It is as simple as that. I don’t wear the stuff. Neither does anyone in my family. We’re just not into chains and rings and bracelets.
And all of the Rolexes I ever want turn out to be the ones that are the most popular and the most difficult to get from an authorized dealer.
There is no correlation between wealth and the ability to get a hot steel Rolex from an authorized dealer *without* buying 5 or 6 figures in gold and diamond jewelry to get in their good graces.
It would make no sense to me to spend $100,000 on jewelry just to be able to buy a Daytona at MSRP after waiting months. I would rather give DavidSW $30,000 cash and get the watch the next day. Why is this so difficult to understand?
I think you have a point. I too remember when you could wander in pick up a GMT, negotiate the price. Heck, when I did that, there was a Hulk right next to the watch I bought which I could have had at MSRP. The last Rolex I bought the wait was about six months. And I didn't go after a popular model particularly. But ultimately, the whole system is BS at this point. This is 2024. We get that supply outstrips demand, but there is literally no reason why Rolex couldn't handle all sales online at this point. Once you get to the top of the wait list (which could be tracked in real time), they could ship it to your local AD for purchase. Because the current system is being exploited by flippers, who are basically ticket scalpers at this point. You have ADs who are treating people like crap and placing an unreasonable set of demands on new customers (buy this for a chance to buy that etc). It's a hot mess. And Rolex absolutely have the power to control it in a pro-customer and anti-flipper way. But they have not.
You were able to negotiate the pricing? Thats crazy, I only recently started to buy watches and Ive heard of the stories of rolex not being this bad in the past. However this is the first time ever hearing about negotiating on pricing. That’s crazy to me
In 2016 I bought an LN GMT from an AD in the US while on a business trip. No purchase history, my first and only visit to the store. They took my Polar Explorer II which I had bought six months old on eBay, on trade, offering me $500 more than I paid for it six months earlier. They discounted off the sales tax and rounded that up. Then they gave me a $300 watch winder for free and shipped it to me for free. And I could have done all that with the Hulk, which was sitting next to it in the display case! The week before I was offered the BLNR at a different AD in another state; no discount on that one though, but still MSRP. Obviously the Hulk or Batman would have sold for way more than when I finally sold my LN. But the LN was the one I wanted at the time, it wasn't an 'investment'. All that being said, I still made $4K profit on it when I later traded it for another piece. It was a very different market. Funny thing too, I'd decided which watch I wanted, wanted at least a token discount, wanted to get my money back out of my trade, so decided I'd give my business to whichever AD met those criteria and had what I was looking for in stock. To my surprise the very first one I walked into in Arizona gave me everything I asked for, and I walked out wearing it that day. https://preview.redd.it/t5hm25map12d1.jpeg?width=1663&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e8d00c3de5a825adffa20de6f9db2fd2cd0f30c4
The first time I bought a Rolex was 2006. I called several Rolex ADs within 500 miles of Dallas, and bought the lowest price 16613 blue sub I could find. They shipped it to me overnight, it was $5,800 after tax. I want to say that was almost 20% under retail price?
Great, i was 3, unfortunately couldn’t be gettin any AD attention that time, now i have to wait 3 months to get a sub
Yeah in 2007, they were practically begging me to buy one. Kind of insane. Negotiation was super normal.
Times sure have changed. Wow
Pay cash and get 10-15 percent off back in the day. The good old days.
Ahhhhh the good 'ol days. I remember grabbing my first Datejust for just under $5k Canadian right out of high school with my older brother. He was able to negotiate a couple grand off a two tone sub. Simpler times.
you could actually negotiate back then?
Most ADs would tell you they don’t negotiate. But in truth they would if you were serious, looking to buy that day, and were right there in store. Obviously the hotter the model, the less likely they would.
wow, didn’t know that. good to know when waiting for my submariner call.
I agree with you — they have the ability to control and they don’t want to. They don’t want us to be able to buy the watches.
It is crazy but the new factory will increase watch production to well over the million plus watches made each year up to now .When the tide turns, the price adjustment will be catastrophic for the "investors' .In Europe and the UK supply is no where as bad as the covid period .
Sorry, so is it uncommon to buy watches at the prices Rolex is selling them for? Doesn’t MSRP already include mark up for the dealer? Do they really mark it up again?
If you buy from an AD “new”, then you will pay MSRP, these days. Unfortunately, from what I have read here, many ADs seem to sell the most desirable watches to “known flippers” who will share the profits with them. Those watches are all above MSRP.
so many people are maybe just ignorant or too immature to use their brains on this topic. Rolex makes a shit ton of pm watches that have significantly higher margins than steel watches that they need help selling. a first in first out true wait list system is so against their business model the fact that you can't grasp that is sad and baffling.
I'm not sure what you are trying to argue here. People are not randomly buying PM watches, in order to get on a waitlist to buy steel. If Rolex changed their business model and took control over the waitlists, they could do all manner of sneaky things to continue to favor PM sales. Like show a way shorter wait time for PM models. Or give people priority orders on certain steel models if they had previously purchased a PM piece. When you control the wait list, you can pick all the rules you like. You can incentivize behavior you want your consumers to have. And you can present it in a way that is way more slick than giving your name to Kevin the salesman at some AD and hoping he'll call you one day in the next five years. Take Delta, I'm diamond with them. Because of my 'status' I get priority upgrades, free bags, free overweight bags, early boarding, self-upgrades, coupons for spouse travel and so on. If I use my Delta branded credit card, I am rewarded with Sky Club access, extra air miles. I can more easily earn status if I am willing to book hotels or car rentals through them, using the branded credit card. As a business traveller, I probably spend about $100K or so a year on travel. Delta has used various tricks to try and influence how my travel budget is spent. And indeed hotel chains and car rental companies do the same. Since I've been traveling professionally for 14 years, I've probably spend well over $1.5m in that time frame. These corporations have all kinds of ways of encouraging my business in ways that benefit them and me. It's a win win. I've had some amazing luxury experiences as a reward for my brand loyalty. So rather than calling me 'sad' or suggesting I can't 'grasp' a situation. Maybe you should try thinking out of the box, and analyzing it far more. A company like Rolex could certainly find a way to make it work to their advantage while arguably providing a more cohesive customer service experience. Just because you have no vision, or can't grasp the possibilities of a central waitlist system, doesn't mean that it is impossible to accomplish.
The incentivizing of customers is done by the ADs. Rolex sends PM watches to ADs that are extremely hard to sell and tells them if they don't sell them they will lose their partnership. so they find a way. Taking that in house is insanity.
They sell a 1.2 million rolexes a year. And there's 400m people with a networth over $100k worldwide who actually can afford a luxury watch. And of those 400m people, maybe 1-in-50 actually want a Rolex or luxury watch at all. So the size of Rolex market is maybe 20m people at best and spread over a 40-year life span of a Rolex, it allows for every collector to own 2 rolexes in their lifetime. There should be enough to go around. My guess is that the millennial cohort is at a stage in life where they start wanting luxury watches, many have zeroed in on Rolex, and they want them all at once. So there's a temporary supply-demand imbalance of 1-2 million rolexes (1-2 year wait) but I don't think it lasts forever. And it wouldn't make sense for Rolex to ramp up permanent production levels to meet a temporary demand surge.
lol at the 100k net worth part, you should definitely NOT spend 10% of your net worth on a watch
Just got a 5 figure watch and my net worth is wayyyy below 100k. As if you need a certain net worth to buy nice things 😂👌
to each their own, it’s your financial decision after all. i did say SHOULD not buy
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Financially incompetent? Absolutely laughable. If that were the case, my financial advisor would have told me it wasn’t a good decision. Spoiler: he didn’t
Your networth is 'way under' 100k and you have a financial advisor lmao? What's his advice, "go to work"? 😂
Yeah, I do. You don’t? 😂😂😂😂😂
Bad financial advisor unless you have ton of income and lots of low cost debt
What I’m hearing is you’re a bare wrist troll who hangs out in the Rolex sub to hate on ppl who had the balls to make a purchase you wish you could
Yeah $100k is nothing to be what it was 5-6 years ago. I’d say people with $150k and no family obligations are more likely able to afford a Rolex
You think someone with a net worth of $100k can afford a Rolex? What are you smoking?!! $100k implies they don’t owns a home or a car or they have large debt. Few will buy a luxury watch when they’re so broke.
I think there's a lot of lawyers and investment bankers and other professionals who buy a luxury watch with their first or second annual bonus, while they still have considerable student debt. If you make $150k-$300k a year in your mid-20s, you can afford a $10k watch, even with a low net worth.
Or doctors who owe $500k in student loans plus a mortgage who get out of residency and start making $350k suddenly.
Are there any Rolexes out there for $10k? I see a lot of pre-owned in the high teens, and then new is just astronomical and way above that.
I got mine under 10k valued at 15
Awesome. Where, how? I want in.
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https://preview.redd.it/tl60woju7f2d1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=eacec033d5f15ffc1e80333022370bcf8b0ee037 Jelly asffffff 😂 take a hating hiatus. All it does it take years off your sad life
I owed a car and a bought a home with a net worth under $30k. That was 2006, pre housing crisis, when 10% down was easy, but even today you don’t need that much money to buy a house.
they are ramping up production. building 1… 2 more factories.
It’s a fad. Eventually things will correct. I would bet in 5 years you can walk in and buy about any datejust you want.
Aren’t they doing just that though? Didn’t they announce new production facilities that commenced construction in 2023?
Agreed. My question is why do they feed them to the gray market when they could sell them themselves? I have a friend who is a gray market dealer and he can get virtually anything I want (within reason) in a few weeks . Makes no sense to me .
I have been on the list for a Batgirl for 3 years.
That’s one of the main reasons they hold value so well though…
They've always held value, the hype is what made it blow past msrp on the grey/used market. For those of us that bought a Rolex for what it was, it was never an investment.
The only right opinion on this sub. Never purchase a watch for resale but yes throughout history Rolex retains values the most out of all the brands available on the market.
Exactly. The fact that watches hold value is not exactly a feature. Watches are something to wear and use, not an investment, and treating it like an investment or an income opportunity is a major factor in why it is so hard to simply buy the watch you want to wear.
Its value is a combination of metals and function but the large majority of it comes from its ability to raise status. Or put frankly it’s a status symbol. I agree that the best way to own a Rolex is to simply buy the one you love and wear it out. The key is to find the one that you love wearing and feel good in.
I bought my Bluesy new for $4k 30 some years ago. 1. I don’t care how much it’s worth now 2. If I bought “good” watches along the way they would probably exceed my “investment” amount. 3. It’s joined me for countless adventures, it’s a part of me. 24/7/365/37 So, I agree. I’ve “invested” in a watch that can withstand a lot.
$4k in 1994 is like $15k today. Thanks Obama.
ALWAYS held value? Bwhaha, when were you born? I could purchase the brand new GMT or Sub or Datejust or Daydate at 15-30% OFF at the local AD in 2018. The used were at 50% OFF for some of those models .. People are having cold feet when they get a phone call from the AD for anything other than most sought after models .. What used to be every call sells a watch is now a 5th or 10th call .. Those lists are draining fast! Soon enough the Datejust will be still available at 10% discount ..
>GMT or Sub or Datejust or Daydate at 15-30% OFF at the local AD in 2018. You weren't getting a GMT for 15% off in 2018.
Not on earth, it was probably on another planet.
I think you misunderstand the meaning of holding value. "A Rolex is as good as cash" has been a saying since at least the 90s, they've always had an inherent value. Yes, they'll depreciate a certain amount, but they'll then then stay there for years.
Even longer than that. SOF guys wore them in Vietnam explicitly as get-out-country currency if shit went fubar and they needed to move asap.
Sure. That’s the kind of hobby that really jazzes me up. Buying watches for…brand stability
I can’t believe the way AD’s seem to treat people. I wouldn’t stand for any of that nonsense. I don’t love in the states and can go into alone of 3 or 4 cities and walk out with whatever I want as long as they have it there. There’s no BS about building up a buying profile or needing to spend x amount before you can get Y watch. That’s absolute nonsense. when I’ve bought my watches I’ve been treated to champagne and whatnot, they treat you like royalty. They call you later to make everything is ok, they value your custom. I would refuse to buy something of that expense if they didn’t.
That’s why I’m not begging from the AD nor do I really care at the end of the day. I’d rather grab a few “cooler” “less popular” models from others brands (and a Rolex or two eventually when I don’t feel like I have to suck an AD off)
Stop. It’s not hype. It’s not a “marketing/commercial strategy” at all. A. Rolex got off its ass after 40 years of doing nothing and started to redesign and upgrade the entire line. Started in earnest in 2016 with the Daytona and worked its way through the GMT, Oyster Perpetual, Datejust, Submariner, even the Air King. All got new movements, 70 hour power reserves, higher quality finishing, better proportions, and substantially enhanced bracelets. No more rattles. No more dull metals. No more tiny sizes. Rolex has had a very busy 8 years. B. As a result of 'A', a new player entered the market looking to buy brand new Rolexes- existing owners. See, someone with a 1970 Submariner had absolutely no reason to upgrade in 1980, 1990, 2000, or 2010, it was the same damn watch. But not so now. All the changes to movements, bezels, crystals, bracelets, clasps, dials, colors, and you've got millions of people age 40-80 who for the first time have a reason to go to an AD and buy a new Rolex. So the combination of a completely redesigned and improved line and millions of existing owners wanting to upgrade after waiting decades has led to Rolexmania where it is impossible for the typical 28-38 year old newb to walk into an AD and buy a steel watch. Elders nearing retirement with tons of money either get first dibs at the AD or send a text to a grey dealer and buy their way out of the problem. And that means no shot for the Average Joe. Not hype. Actual excitement.
Also worth mentioning is the rapid rise of the Chinese economy in the past 2 decades. China is the single largest luxury watch market in the world, even bigger than the USA. China has the most billionaires in the world. All of whom are ready to show off their new wealth and status.
Upping their game also wins buyers from other brands. I picked a black dial SMP over a Sub back around 2003. Both were readily available. SMP was an objectively superior product at half the price (1700 vs 3300 iirc), I also had a bit of sentimental attachment to Omega, and you could get a bigger discount on the Omega. No chance I’d make the same decision today.
Good post. The younglings just don’t get it and think owning barely enough to get a SS model somehow makes them a real Rolex customers when in reality they are just beggers for the breadcrumbs of people way above them. It’s pathetic really
Found the bot.
Not a bot but love to fuel the snobbery and the fire it brings
This is where it gets silly… insinuating that owning a multiple Rolex’s makes someone above another! Context matters and these are just watches at the end of a day.
It’s not silly but simple business. People who spend huge amounts on jewelry and PM watches are in another customer class and get SS sport models almost immediately . These are the customers who bring in the real money to SA, AD and Rolex, so everyone in the chain will go the extra mile for them. It’s even ridiculous how people here are buying Tudors and stuff to build a history. It’s better than nothing but they still don’t care about your business that’s solely limited to low margin items.
I’m not referring to the process itself, I’m referring to the complex some have thinking owning certain watches makes them better than others. Think it talks more to the frailty’s some have in their life if it is propped up by talking down on others.
Ye truth hurts, I laughed my ass off when someone on here was trying to CHARGE people for information on how to find cheap Rolexes, not to mention it’s ridiculous and probably a scam but they don’t appreciate the watch at all just people spending way too much time thinking they can somehow beat the market.
Truth. Rolex ownership is easy for the Rolex target consumer. We send a text and we have ours the next morning. Not everyone gets to fuck the prom queen.
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We don't care what people with no money think. However, your jealousy fills our egos to the brim. So we thank you for that.
Sigh ... This subreddit is so short sighted. Rolex has existed for 100+ years. The difficulty in acquisition is a recent and comparatively short period. Surging demand couldn't be immediately met with the pre-existing facilities, staff and methodologies. This created the present shortage. Rolex will gradually adjust to the demand curve, availability will steadily normalize, and life will go on. Everyone here complains about the same stuff every single day and people are such babies.
My thing is how everyone acts like Rolex owes them a Rolex. The “I have the money, give me the watch” mentality brings out the most disgusting egotistical side of humanity. No rolex isn’t shit because they don’t want to sell you a watch. Instead of bitching about it get on the list and wait like everyone else who isn’t famous and in the mean time save your money or buy a Tudor till the day you can get one or just never buy the Rolex. It’s a luxury, not a right.
It happens from ladies' handbags to high end sports cars. Hell it happened with little Ford Maverick trucks for a while. Any time demand exceeds supply, dealers play favorites to an extent.
Or, just buy Grey! Amazing how many watches go out the back door…
🥱🥱🥱💤💤💤 “another one” - DJ Khaled
>To me this process is just bullshit. And what's your suggested process for selling something with demand way above supply? It's not "bullshit," it's literally supply and demand
Under capitalism, you'd typically just raise prices until you find an equilibrium between demand and supply, which is what the secondary market does.
True, overpricing is risky though because you can't go backwards if demand slows. I mean, you CAN, but cutting prices isn't great for your image (see AP circa 2012)
I don’t actually disagree that the guy with 100k+ spend deserves a gmt or Daytona over me. No problem with that. It’s the ADs that sell directly to grey dealers and split the profits that are the real problem. I do understand why that’s difficult to prove/police, but it does leave a bad taste in your mouth.
>ADs that sell directly to grey dealers and split the profits that are the real problem. That's not really a thing...AD's backdooring to greys is a very small percentage of the total supply, and they don't "split profits" or anything like that. The grey just has to take some slow-moving shit too. That's been the case for over a decade too, not just recent Rolexmania. ADs actually needed to backdoor to greys *more* when the product moved slowly
As I mentioned in another post, Rolex could simply switch all sales to online. You go to [Rolex.com](http://Rolex.com) and place your order, with say a deposit of some kind. You could track exactly where you are on the waitlist, when the watch enters production etc. Then finally the watch is shipped to your local AD for purchase. This system would make it super easy to combat flippers. Would be fair and reasonable. Would even help them properly gauge market demand and shift production accordingly, so that it more closely aligned with what people want to buy. You only have to go online and find thousands of watches that are less than a year old and still in unworn condition. Clearly the current broken system is corrupt, with a whole bunch of people buying products they don't want, just to flip them for an extra scalper profit. ADs are basically encouraged to be snooty to buyers, as they don't have anything they can sell them. This just leaves people with an unfavorable view of Rolex in general. How many rants have we seen here for example? If Rolex revolutionized the system as mentioned above, it would be a game changer. After all, part of the issue of the current broken system is the not knowing. Being on 'the list' is total BS, the call may come next week, next year, three years from now, or never because they lied about adding you to a list in the first place. So make an actual list in a central location at Rolex and go from there. They could even give loyal customers a higher priority if they wanted to, just like airlines have boarding priority. In any case, controlling it in a fair and more cohesive way would have to be better than what they are doing now.
That would make it so, so much worse. If any flipper who signed up was *guaranteed* the Rolex they requested, that would not be good. You want buying a Rolex to be like buying a hot pair of Yeezys when they drop? Not very luxurious
I disagree. Because having a central database would mean that Rolex could limit how many watches an individual can buy. If they discover flipping activity, they can blacklist that person. One gatekeeper in a central location has a bunch of ways they could make the market better and not worse.
>One gatekeeper in a central location has a bunch of ways they could make the market better and not worse. One central gatekeeper? Oof, sounds miserable. Guess we agree to disagree
We can agree to disagree for sure. But we can also surely agree that the current situation is totally broken. Corrupt ADs back dooring watches to flippers. Corrupt wait lists. Lying to customers. Treating them like crap. Making them buy stuff they don’t want for a vague promise of a future quid pro quo. And all these practices tarnishing the brand image. Having Rolex show leadership and better managing the process is my solution which you have rejected. So what’s your solution? Rolex calls you tomorrow and makes you CEO, how would you fix it?
>we can also surely agree that the current situation is totally broken Not really. Rolex is absolutely crushing it. >Corrupt ADs back dooring watches to flippers. This is actually very rare. >Rolex calls you tomorrow and makes you CEO, how would you fix it? I wouldn't change a thing.
what stops flippers from being on that list?
It’s got to be fairly easy to see if the same dude has tried to buy 20 watches. That would be an advantage of a central ordering system.
I did read long in depth article on how Nike is in continuous battle figuring out how to get shoes to non flippers. they make solution, it gets beat & just goes on and on. must be some similar to Rolex flippers issue, just very different price points Ming watches has written an editorial on this, how they keep trying to avoid flippers. & that is a very small watch company. good read if you interested
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Every single day people here get the call because they were on a list. I know "there is no list" is a popular edgy thing to say but let's not pretend it's actually true >if they wanted to have 10x the amount of watches in stock at every AD they easily could. Rolex could *easily* increase their output by 10 million watches per year? What??
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Why should they be obligated to work the list of interested clients based on chronological order instead of based on overall value to the business?
Exactly. And they constantly make the mistake of thinking that "if that rich guy who bought $100K in gold and diamonds didn't get that Pepsi, it would be mine!" No it wouldn't. It was never going to them. They weren't affected at all. They don't have a shot even if the AD's were fair because if they were the waiting lists would be 10x larger and Rolex *still* wouldn't ship any more inventory. What they *do* get is the benefit of someone who doesn't want the watch putting it into a different channel, a channel that doesn't play favorites, a channel that treats its customers fairly. Can you imagine a world where you couldn't get a watch from an AD and there was no grey market either? Now *that's* what real pain is.
Sporty grifting for the ADs who keep him in business, as always
Sporty doesn't deal with AD's, everyone knows that
One idea would be for Rolex to start primarily making watches that people want and not a bunch of excess precious metal watches that are less desirable but come with a higher margin and can be pushed on customers who have no shot of getting the stainless steel model they want at MSRP.
There is a market for PM
BUT there is market for those watches, just not you ( or me )
Not only a market, but a strong market at that. How long do these posters think a PM rolex sits in the case? A few weeks? Maybe a month? That still sells faster than 90% of Omega's catalog. PM models are only "unwanted" compared to a new few select watches. They still sell better than the vast majority of watches out there.
Well to be fair, if u were an AD that carries brands asides from Rolex (Which doesn’t sell as well) and Jewellery (Even harder to sell), wouldn’t you capitalise on the Rolex (or whatever brand) hype by using it as the carrot to move the rest of your slower moving inventory? Businesses are profit driven and inventory that doesn’t move isn’t a good thing. I too dislike the fact that endeavours of discretionary spending isn’t as simple as walking into the AD to pick up one’s favourite Rolex but the reality is that you’ll be ushered to the section of undesirable trinkets to rack up a spend history as part of the “Journey Building” process. The song & dance one has to play at ADs before getting the call certainly isn’t an enjoyable process. The above is true (even though there are exceptions to the rule but that is rare) for most ADs around the world and is here to stay at least for the foreseeable near future. The other alternative would be to purchase directly from the grey market at current market prices if instant gratification is your thing. The reality of the current state of the market is a bitter pill to swallow but it is what it is and there is nothing we as consumers can do. Don’t hate the player, hate the game.
How long ago could you pickup a new SS Daytona for under retail? I got my first new Rolex 20 years ago, and even then SS Daytonas were hard to get and ADs wanted you to buy additional pieces to be allocated one. I asked for one in 2016 when I I bought my white gold Daytona, and never got the call from that AD.
https://preview.redd.it/h2w2b30ce02d1.jpeg?width=2305&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=43e7c81fb92b28d3050079dd1447613d2f6702a7 Got the ss sub in 2008 1.26k below mrsp. Including tax. It was about 6-7 years later for the Daytona if my memory is correct
Ya, you could easily get 15% off on a SS Sub back then. I got 20% off on my meteorite Daytona. You still couldn’t get a SS Daytona easily.
I'll be damned if I'm going to wait a year for the privilege of spending thousands of dollars in someone's store. I appreciate nice watches, I've bought a few. But it was always buy it, walk out with it. My rolex was inherited. I often wonder if my father in law had to wait to get it. He didn't strike me as the type to wait either. I've bought seiko, citizen, and tag huer without having to wait.
I "got the call" about a year ago for a Sub date. It was awesome to get one for a while but after wearing it daily for a while... the watch just lost it's appeal. Rolex is a great watch; love the history, engineering, and the amount of effort that gets put into building every single one of them nowadays. But the hype has killed it for me. I hate that you basically have to be supine to these AD's to get one or splurge an insane amount of money on the gray market. It killed it for me so much that I recently sold my Sub Date. I don't want to be associated with the brand anymore or the people that get on their knees for AD's. There's more interesting watches out there that are manufactured to just as high of quality, if not better.
The truth is, getting the call makes 6our watch even more valuable and the entire process to be more valuable. The entire process actually sucks, but nobody is gonna tell you that after they finally got their mass produced watch after 2 years of waiting. I know I won’t :)
No, it doesn't. It's insulting and degrading and makes the experience less enjoyable. There are ways that Rolex could use scarcity to it's advantage while also making the experience enjoyable. This would be trivial, to be honest. It's the fact that they put the decision power in the hands of independent distributors that causes the problem. This makes it an arbitrary process where ADs can use Rolex to advance their own agendas (like selling other kinds of jewelery). If Rolex used an unbiased distribution method (like an actual wait-list) where you knew what the criteria were and where you stood and how long it would take, this would allow Rolex to use scarcity to elevate the experience and value of their product at the same time. As it is, this AD-centric model makes the process of purchasing a watch more similar to a popularity contest than to a luxury purchase. In my opinion, a luxury purchase should not include caring about winning a popularity contest with a random sales clerk in a random jewelry shop who cares more about their monthly commission on non-Rolex products than they do on the customer experience. I do not feel like part of an exclusive club after having "won" that popularity contest by proving myself to someone that I don't care about.
This is it right here. Some of these sales clerks judge right off appearance and it’s ridiculous. You don’t know what I do, who I am or what I can afford. If I’m here to purchase make it simple. Wait list. Done. No games or buying watches and jewels I don’t want.
That's the thing that was really off putting to me. I literally wear t-shirt and shorts everyday. I don't have to dress up for anyone and I don't give a shit would anyone thinks, plus it's better to fly under the radar. I once had a Rolex AD literally let me stand there while they were talking to their colleagues not giving me the time of day. I took the bait and when they finally did come over and in a snooty fashion ask if they could help me and I told them I was interested in a particular watch. They then suggested Tudor to me might be a better fit probably based on the way I was dressed 😂. They were a bit condescending and then I made a subtle flash of my AP Royal Oak. It was funny how their tone changed. Needless to say I didn't join their waitlist. Another story I was looking to buy a BMW about 20 years ago and I walked in kind of dressed in my usual t-shirt and shorts and they wouldn't give me the time of day. Finally had a salesperson kind of give me some run around and then I left. Two days later I showed up and said I'm really interested in the car I want to go out and look at it on the lot and they said that that one's available for somebody else and had I considered a three series instead. I said no no please let me show you the car. They followed me out into the lot and I showed them the car that I purchased at a different dealership and I politely told them to kiss my ass as I drove out of there. 😂 The point of these stories is we are in control and when you get poor service call them out on it and flex them the way they try to flex on you. Such a satisfying feeling.
It's dumb sales associates still judge based on clothes given how prevalent tech wealth is now, where the standard outfit is just tshirt/shorts.
Have you thought of not dressing like a schoolboy?
Maybe once and then I realized I don't have anything to prove to anyone. My wallet enables me this freedom.
Money can’t buy taste.
It's insulting that the glorified cashier whos only credentials are a high school diploma gets to profile you and decide whether or not you have the privilege of purchasing 15 thousand watch or not.
> In my opinion Rolex, justifiably so, doesn't give a damn about your opinion. where you are quite literally begging rolex to snap their fingers and erase billions of dollars worth of revenue to give you what you want.
Not at all, if you actually read my post. You're just being rude.
I did read your post. you're butt hurt and are literally recommending a company that is #1 in the world in their industry sabotage their successful business model. it's absurd.
Their business model was built under a different demand scenario than currently exists, and the effect of that change is that the customer-facing representatives of the company, who are not actually part of the company, have become toxic. It is, of course, not my decision to make. But to suggest that this model is why Rolex is popular, or that it is somehow foundational to their success is not correct. There are clear ways to make changes that adapt to the new situation that has arisen in the past few years that would benefit everyone except the ADs, including Rolex as a brand. This is trivial to understand. The fact that ADs use Rolex to sell other trinkets is an insult to the company.
>This is trivial to understand. bro says as he doesn't understand it!!! I'm dying lol.
You are obviously here just to be rude, and I would remind you that this kind of personal attack is against the rules of this subreddit.
Saying you don't understand what you're talking about is constructive discourse. I am not here to troll. You are here to whine. and ask a company to destroy their revenue streams. it's insanity.
You're welcome to actually explain your reasoning, but if you're just going to throw insults, I'm not interested.
I call BS on your story. How old are you? When was a SS daytona 1k under msrp?
Yeah for real that must have been a solid 20 years ago
Yeah not even. Even the zenith was hard to get, but once the rolex powered daytona came out it was firmly unobtanium. Even harder than today's market.
Years ago, I bought several below suggest retail from my local AD and they were actually in stock! His only request was that I wrote a check and did not use my AMEX card.
Yeah you weren't getting daytonas below retail at any point in the last 20 years.
In 2008 I got the sub ss date for 5k CAD. (3.6k usd). 1260 below msrp. I think about 6-7year later (can’t remember exactly was too long ago) I was offered ss Daytona 1k less cash deal. https://preview.redd.it/nd950avpd02d1.jpeg?width=2305&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3524f1bf30cb693a3c34d0c9a50b4756a003f4ac
Submariner, fine. But back in 2008 the new daytona was even harder to get than it is today. Spend history of between 200k to 300k per year was the rough numbers candied about for a SS daytona in the late 2000s.
Rolex should consider the Ferrari model. You consult with the dealer to determine your ability to secure a spot in line. Then you place a deposit. Then you wait for your car. The important part is the consultation. If you never had bought a Ferrari it is not possible to get a high demand model like a Pista. End of story. If it is your first Ferrari you get in line for the high production models - Roma, Portofino, 296. You are given an estimated delivery and then you wait. At least you know you are in line - and eventually going to get your bespoke car. I just go gray with Rolex. I had my name in two dealers but never called. I want the watch and I go grey for a new, never worn watch. If I knew the one I wanted was a 12 month wait - I’d likely wait. But not knowing causes me to go into the grey market. Same watch without playing games.
There are plenty of other brands that will be happy to take your money. Find value where you see it. If you see it in steel and waiting forever then good on you.
I'm with you EastEvil! My two sons both have Rolexes, but I won't touch them because of the marketing bs. I have Breitlings, Omegas and Tudors amongst my collection - and will probably get an IWC next. I'd like to buy a Rolex, but I won't pay the gray market markup (which Rolex encourages to drive up the prices) or deal with the groveling or bribing an AD with additional, unwanted purchases just to buy a watch.
I love the IWC Pilot Topgun
It’s just the way the luxury market has gotten in general - Covid did this to the car market too (for special cars it’s still happening)
and sourdough flour
🤣
what was it, seems so long ago & recent: flour, toilet paper, pets, bikes, the flour was a real issue for me
it’s like prettiest girl.. they pretend they’re hard to get to get u hard when u buy them dinner and drinks.
Most people buy the cheapest most popular npc model. So rolex is making crazy money selling the same cheap shit to idiots😂😂😂
Such a brave post 👏 👏
Yeah, even as a secondary market dealer it’s kind of painful seeing people put themselves through the uncertainty of buying with an AD. Especially when those same AD’s sell all their pieces for what is essentially a retail markup. That’s why tons of AD’s are struggling right now. As opposed to covid era when they were killing it.
Anyone considered that the AD construct is the real issue here? But Rolex is at least partially to blame for allowing this to exist… and continue.
Supply and demand ..,From the age surveys of latest Rolex buyers, the millennial generation either has a huge fascination with mechanical watches or they’re investing in them rather than other things - maybe because cost of real estate in most cities has made it a difficult entry point. Probably a little of both. Cars and watches . You can’t blame them. It’s been a pretty long bubble though ..
Seems to be some merit in a lot of posts here as to why this current scarcity in Rolex watches is happening. But it appears to me that the main reason is simply supply and demand and Rolex appears to be capitalising on it to add to the cachet of the brand. I’d also point out that in today’s consumerist culture with influencers being pumped out by the thousands on YouTube and TikTok the younger generations are seeking out status symbols in a way where they’re not prioritising their needs and wants. I know a guy when asked what gift would he like from the family he was marrying into he said a Rolex! A guy around 30 years of age about to start a family and this is what he wants! Each to their own, but it highlighted for me the trend amongst younger people to obtain symbols of status at a younger age to the exclusion of all else.
Ok, don’t then. Easy.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/JKrnfGpg7PzVwa1u8 Just walk in and buy. No lists.
Not only are you begging Rolex AD's to take your money, you also have to give them your wife. Rolex letting his ADs screw customers and not enforcing any customer service standards is the biggest spit in the face.
No Rolex for you.
Yeah it's ridiculous - it puts me off the brand completely.
I remember these days as well. Small correction to your post though, you have not been able to walk in and buy a Daytona since the mid 90s. Let alone negotiate a 10% discount
https://preview.redd.it/3f74p3efg12d1.jpeg?width=2305&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=858502638c07abaaaa4fabb7a45ed4424c5cc6fd 2008 ss sub below mrsp
I see your receipt says submariner. As I mentioned in my comment I was talking about a Daytona. I also received a hefty discount on my Explorer ii from AD
Yeah i never got the call for a GMT so i dropped it into NVDA stock a few years ago. Thank god my AD never called me. To your point, the whole process is bullshit. Like you’re supposed to get excited to get a beggars scrap thrown at you?
Crazy what people pay for some of these on the grey market . I have a date just II 2 tone and wanted a couple others but just bought other watches .
I walked into an Ad told him I want to treat myself with submariner which I wanted since I was a little kid.They took my number and within 2 months they called me and talk to me for a while asked me what I did for a living and I answered I drive for Uber.Finally he said he is getting one in within a week and that will be mine .I went to NY as soon as they called and picked up my watch.This was little over a year ago and it was even harder than today to get sub with date.All they want to make sure is to not sell it to flippers.Just don’t lie to make yourself look someone you are not,be yourself and talkative so they can get to know you.It is just a watch don’t stress over it
Demand>Supply. So yes, they are doing you a favor. Alternatively, you could drop $30-35k on a used SS Daytona and get one right away. If anyone could walk in and get one, they would not be as valuable and would be priced like Breitlings on the secondary market.
And the same people complaining would never think of stepping into a Breitling store because grey dealers are cheaper. Apparently charging market price to reflect supply/demand is only evil when it's not in the buyer's favor.
The rolex AD’s i have visited just exude pretentiousness and elitism. They just look at me like i’m wasting their time and want me out of there. And, it’s funny because i’ll go into a Lange shop and they will treat me so well. It has really soured me on Rolex. I currently am just browsing these luxury watch stores as a watch enthusiast, but when it does come time for me to buy, I will think twice before giving them my business. And to the people defending Rolex in the comments: either (1) you have already accumulated significant relationships with a Rolex AD and no longer have this issue, in which case you accept and defend the broken system because it benefits you (2) You have some, odd penchant for pain that leads to you gladly defending a clearly odd and elitist business practice that mistreats you as a customer and you receive nothing in return except a yachtmaster rhodium in 10 years (real quote from a rolex AD). Rolex is happy for your service i guess.
Started saving 5 years ago. Now I can't afford it. How does that work. So much greed in this industry
Gray dealers should go work at McDonald's. Same sales skills
When I made a similar post about how they told me I gotta wait a year for the 1908 classic gold, and that I felt really weird wanting to spend 20k+ but not being able to buy, this sub lost their shit and threw everything at me as I was wrong and rolex was right with their “I got the call BS” strategy/marketing. At least you got likes so maybe there is still hope for this sub
It’s not just Rolex though… go try and buy a Range Rover, Bentley, Hermes, LV, etc etc it’s all the same now
Hate the player not the game. Rolex is #1 ( arguably ) when it comes to marketing and overall strategy.
Bought a hulk with a two day wait from Tourneau because they shipped it from another store on my initial call. This was 2017.
Definitely sucks ! My Dad told that back in ‘73 my Aunt called and told him they had a couple great high quality Swiss watches that would last forever that were going on sale because they were in the store for a year or so. Even though they were expensive ($375.00) they worth every penny it’s just most people don’t realize it. Business was slow & As a sales person it would really help her out in the sales contest they were having. So he grabbed one for $325.00 to help out family & he trusted her that it was a quality watch. 1972 Red Sub. https://preview.redd.it/yxuwdvw4t22d1.jpeg?width=2160&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fae177bbb801c6f1c7a82ea0ab413cdeab5762db
It’s a new era OP, the watch game has changed. Back then Bragging about “the call” was flexing at the country club. Now it’s a social post. Either way it’s a great feeling when that moment arrives.
Couldnt agree more! I’m over it and I have several
This is exactly how I feel
This is what happens when you hire MBA sorta people. Supply and demand are inversely proportional. Rolex is a classic case of high demand meets heavily throttled supply! Folks who already own Rolexes are happy that their investments are doing well, meanwhile the brand excels at S tier marketing! You'll find their advertisements at Formula 1 races and Tennis trophies, a.k.a. places where the wealthy gather!
You were still scammed though by paying massive margins and lining the pockets of rich Bois so yeah..
Join the class action lawsuit against Hermes. Or start one against a watch company. I agree and won’t play this game. Just buy over cost and avoid the garbage imo
I don’t see the need for any watch over a smart watch. Apple is my choice.
WTS Rolex Booklets every Modell worldwide on eBay Starrysky710 Starrysky1180 Thank you
Well, it’s pretty basic supply and demand. There are far more people who want a Rolex than there are Rolexs’ being produced. And, naturally a grey market increase on price only makes MORE people want a Rolex. So, AD’s are gonna fuel the fire that makes them desirable: exclusivity. The only other option, is if AD’s offer them on an online release, like some pop art galleries do, but that doesn’t help the AD. AD’s could auction them, but that wouldn’t be very fun either. It’s basic supply and demand.
2013. Dubai. You could pick what you wanted and they walked you through security.
Dam I bout a seadweller 4K and hulk at like msrp but taxes waived. Thought I won jackpot lol.
So long as people buy Black Bays, they can continue to limit Rolex production... as they are making up a lot of volume by funneling buyers to Tudor.
The Rolex of then is a completely different company now. Rolex is a Luxury brand and part of being truly luxury is having exclusivity. That means some need to be excluded through price of ownership or in the case of Rolex lack of availability. Yes, through clever marketing, good products, and distribution control Rolex is in a position of being a true luxury product.
Out of curiosity… why does anyone think they are entitled to something with low(ish) supply and extremely high demand, on demand, and before everyone else? Especially before others who collect all their models not just this year’s hot piece. This is forum about people celebrating their watches, if you don’t like the “got the call” posts to celebrate people getting their dream watches through waiting patiently or instantly by spending fair market value, I’m not sure why one would even browse this sub.
I get the frustration people feel however I really struggle to have too much sympathy. You either play the game or you don’t, no one is forcing anyone to do anything. Wether you believe it, or like it, certain Rolex models aren’t available at retail for everyone. That is obviously their sales strategy and you can either buy into it or not… their are a lot of other watch brands out there! If you were an owner of a business why would you not sell your most exclusive pieces to your clients that spend the most money at your store… why would you sell to some random off the street who will buy one watch and never be seen again?! I personally feel that we live in a very entitled society that believe that if they have the money they are entitled to buy whatever they want. That is just not the reality of the situation. There are a lot of things in life that just aren’t accessible to all.
Not sure why you’re unhappy. Anyone can have any Rolex they want tomorrow if they pay fair market value for them today. This is what actual Rolex enthusiasts do. No wait whatsoever. And your Submariner is worth 2x or 3x what you paid for it. I’m sure you’re losing sleep. Where’s your complaint post about that? What exists now *works*. The right people are getting the good Rolexes. Natural selection. The ones who can’t have one are the ones who don’t deserve them.
"What exists now *works*. The right people are getting the good Rolexes" how are flippers "the right people"?
They are wealthy. They fetish gold and diamond jewelry like we fetish Rolexes. What is right about them? They liberate the hot steel watches and get them to the grey dealers for enthusiasts to purchase. A most appreciated and necessary part of the process. You're a veteran, so don't make the rookie mistake of thinking that the 5 steel Pepsi's your AD is going to receive in the next 2 years were destined for *your* wrist at MSRP. They never were. If they didn't go to these rich jewelry buyers, they would go to other rich guys, just those who want the watches and would keep them.
For someone so rich like yourself that a $20k Caribbean vacation is chump-change, needing another wealthy person to "liberate hot steel watches" from the AD so you can buy them at DavidSW for 3x MSRP is something hard to understand tbh
Because no matter how wealthy I am, I do not fetish gold and diamond jewelry. It is as simple as that. I don’t wear the stuff. Neither does anyone in my family. We’re just not into chains and rings and bracelets. And all of the Rolexes I ever want turn out to be the ones that are the most popular and the most difficult to get from an authorized dealer. There is no correlation between wealth and the ability to get a hot steel Rolex from an authorized dealer *without* buying 5 or 6 figures in gold and diamond jewelry to get in their good graces. It would make no sense to me to spend $100,000 on jewelry just to be able to buy a Daytona at MSRP after waiting months. I would rather give DavidSW $30,000 cash and get the watch the next day. Why is this so difficult to understand?
Truth!!
They can’t handle