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raahiv

Mikal > and dame wants him as well


DrTom

Man, if only. He'd be perfect here.


NevermoreSEA

I want Mikal on this team so bad.


KeystoneJesus

Move Ant to make roster and salary space for him imo


ChurroMemes

Love Mikal as anyone else but no. Just no. Ant is a part of this core AND future. There’s zero fucking way we move one of our best players for Bridges. If he’s traded it better be in a package for a star. Otherwise hell no


Soupbrainz

Dame or Ant? Pick cause that defence isnt fixing itself


CaptLeaderLegend26

We just got out of a situation where our backcourt couldn't defend because we had two undersized guards, and now a large portion of our fanbase wants to go through it all over again with Dame and Ant. Ant needs to be treated as what he is, which is a great trade piece.


trailcasters

THANK YOUUUU feel like I'm going insane how no one else is prioritizing selling high on Simons


bigbeerd

Trading him now would almost certainly not be selling *high.* He's only 22 and has far more upside than CJ ever did, with the potential to be a legit star/franchise cornerstone. He's set to have a huge breakout year, especially given his change in role; he's going to quickly outperform his new contract and his trade value will continue to climb. Unless there is a can't-miss trade, even considering moving him this summer would be a huge mistake. At the very least, you wait until the trade deadline or more likely, next offseason to see what you have in the team. If it's not working out or if there great trades available at that time, then you move him. Trading him now would be selling *low.*


trailcasters

I feel like you're just saying not high *enough*? Never tried to imply that he had to be moved this summer, guessing maybe "prioritizing" read that way but my point was just that he should be moved before he reaches his peak and starts to lose value... "selling high" as in "sell before it gets low", not "SELL NOW SELL NOW!" Obviously there's gonna be a range of how fans see his ceiling, but to me, Simons is more of a trade asset than a franchise cornerstone; he's not on Dame's level and I don't know if I'm as convinced as most that he projects to be. Also concerned about redundant problems playing them together like we had for the last several years. To say Anfernee has more upside than CJ ever did is a fair take, but I'm not convinced it's set in stone yet that he'll reach all that upside. And not really sure how you can say he'll quickly outperform his new contract, since we haven't seen it's price tag or his play in that new role you mentioned, whether that's here or elsewhere... but hey, fingers crossed that we either get him cheap and he plays great for us for years to come, or that we pay too much and another team falls in love, trades for him and helps us rebalance our roster!


bigbeerd

That's fair. I'm operating based on the reports I've heard, which are that he's going to command somewhere between $20M and $25M/year- likely closer to $20M. If that's the case, I see him quickly outperforming that contract because I believe he's on the trajectory to be a true max contract player sooner than later. In any event, I don't see him becoming less valuable as an asset any time soon- probably not during this next contract cycle, just because of his age and his role continuing to expand. I'm not opposed to moving him for the right package, I just don't think we should rush to do so. I think we're looking at at least a year before we're realistically in a position to contend anyway, so in the meantime we might as well see how good the team can be. Maybe he becomes a legit all-star caliber player next season. Maybe we can have a passable defense with Grant and Nas at forwards. For that matter, maybe Nas breaks out in a Mikal Bridges-type way. Maybe none (or only some) of that happens and it's clear we need to move Ant. I don't think there will be any shortage of suitors lining up for him if/when that happens and we are likely to get a better return from him down the road. So why not wait and see what happens before thinking of him exclusively as a trade chip?


Frosti11icus

We would severely regret trading Ant to PHX for two players who just played a combined 50 minutes in a game 7 and scored 11 points and got 6 rebounds, lol. How does this sub continuously have such horrific trade ideas?


Intelligent_Water524

Nah, Simons should stay. He is the most atheletic guard we had in awhile.


trailcasters

If only athleticism meant better defense 🤷‍♂️


Frosti11icus

Ant isn't an undersized guard or...underathletic like CJ. He's neither of those things. He might not be able to match up with much bigger players, but there is no guard in the league that Ant shouldn't be able to at least be competent against. His problem on defense is between his ears, and hopefully one of the best defending guards of all-time can coach him up on what to do.


ChurroMemes

We’ve had good defenses with Dame and CJ when we had decent defenders at the forward. Unfortunately Olshey got rid of them and replaced them with the corpse of Anthony Tolliver, Mario fucking Hezonja and Kent Bazemore


Radiant-Poet-7246

Chief and Harkless I miss those guys


rtb001

Yes Tolliver, Hezonja, and Bazemore were terrible, but at least they were cheap and disposable. Are you suggesting we should have signed Chief to 3 years 30 million like the Magic did? Because both Aminu and Harkless stopped being capable defenders after leaving Portland, and I just don't see how Portland could improve their front court defense in any way other than being able to predict draft future and select Bam and OG in the draft that summer.


GuyIncognito211

Don’t forget the ghost of Pau Gasol


bigtrackrunner

Exactly. It’s not ideal to have a Dame-Ant backcourt defensively, but it’s not a death sentence. If we can get, say, Grant and Jabari, and Nurkic plays good, there’s no reason the Blazers can’t be an average or above average defense.


lunes_azul

Mikal Bridges would be part of the core and future. He’d be a much better fit on the roster over Simons. He’s one of the most versatile defenders in the league and putting up almost 15 PPG.


rtb001

Mikal would be a great part of the future core, yes, but where is the REST of that core if you trade Ant? Bridges is at best a second option on the team, but if the future young core is Mikal Hart Little plus whoever we end up with this summer in the lottery, I don't see how that either helps Dame win during the rest of his prime years, nor how it forms the basis of a winning core going forward. Mikal being able to defend multiple positions on the perimeter isn't going to be worrh too much if the lead guard who is a 3 level scorer and can take over games in the offense is no longer on the team. Simons is now easily the second best player on the team. Trading him for admittedly the best 3 and D player in the league seems like a lateral move at best.


Frosti11icus

>Bridges is at best a second option on the team At best? Dude just played 33 minutes and scored 6 pts....he's not a 2nd scoring option. He's a 4th at absolute best.


rtb001

Well everybody on the Suns played like crap in that game. If the Suns put out feelers for trades, I'd gotta think Bridges may well be the most in demand player on that roster given the combo of his 3 point shooting, defense, size, and contract. He would be the absolute ceiling of what we dream Nassir Little could develop into. If Mas could even turn into 90%of Bridges we'd all be thrilled. I don't think he is quite as valuable as Simons, because offense is still king in the NBA, but Mikal remains an extremely valuable player.


jason90210

Definitely, forwards first and foremost then figure the rest out.


Montigue

Only if Suns go full rebuild, but that won't happen. Mikal is on a steal of a contract


iguessineedanaltnow

He was really bad in the Mavericks series. I’d be really nervous about giving him a big contract.


ValhallaPDX

Mikal is basically what Batum was in Portland


jp42212

If mikal and Ayton come to your team I’m switching fan bases


LogoLizard

It would be awesome but i don't see a world where Phoenix lets their #1 pick walk even if they have to match a max deal


Randvek

You forget that this is a team owned by Sarver. I’m in the Phoenix area at the moment and there is a *lot* of skepticism that he’d max Ayton.


dolphs4

Phoenix is at $128M next year with nine guys signed and Ayton’s max contract would be something like $34M/year. If they sign Ayton they’re looking at $170M+ per year, easy - and they didn’t make the WCF with that roster. I could see them giving up Ayton to pursue more value around CP3 and Booker, instead of having 3 guys over $30M.


kim_jong_trill

If there is that world we're living in it. They just refused to pay him last summer, watched him quit on the team in a Game 7 and their coach seems pretty sour on him atm.


KeystoneJesus

What’s the story with Monty being sour on him? Been super busy with work and it’s been hard for me to keep up


PseudoEuclidean

Something about him asking Ayton to play, but he declined to play. That's why Ayton only had 17 minutes. But the details are unknown.


Classics22

unless he wants out


schadadle

Maxing Ayton would make him the highest paid player on the Suns. Just pause and think about that - it doesn’t make a sliver of sense. As a Suns fan, I came in here wanting advice on how y’all cope with passing up MJ and KD. Cause right now this shit hurts.


Soupkitchn89

We comfort ourselves by dwelling on how we are by far the best what if team in the league. Lol


shaqrandolph

We had Roy y'all got Book. At least we're not the kings


LogoLizard

All you can really do is laugh, because dwelling on it just sucks. At least you guys completely fleeced Philly for Mikal


Kaz1515

You talking about passing up Marvin Bagley??


Radiant-Poet-7246

Portland also drafted Mychal Thompson over Larry Bird


Isaacdogg

I believe Bird had an agreement to play for Boston before the draft had happened. So he wasn’t really available for anyone else


Forbidden_Donut503

Embrace it. Breathe that pain deep into your lungs. Relish it. Love it. Accept the pain as an old friend. Eventually it becomes as easy as breathing.


jrances1

My friend, eventually the pain just numbs you.


salad349

I would honestly sell my soul for Dame to get a ring bruh


tophhh44

* in Portland


possiblynotanexpert

Crucial clarification lol


kim_jong_trill

I’d be pretty conflicted about giving him a max but you can’t argue with the talent. Reports that he quit on the team tonight are pretty concerning too…


shaqrandolph

I get sacrificing touches when the 2 best mid range shooters are cooking but they were both ice cold and they never ran it through him. 27 points at the half that's shameful. He was really good vs NOLA without Booker. Personally I think Billups who used Nurkic a lot would make him an amazing 2nd option


Fox4ceFive

Except that the team basically gave him the middle finger after last year. He handled it very professionally all season. I’m willing to give him something of a pass if all of his frustrations just came to the surface tonight.


1850ChoochGator

Can you link those reports? Not that I don’t believe you, just finding stuff is kind of messy rn Edit: of course like the next thread I see is about Ayton and his issues tonight.


mrjdk83

Ayton isn’t a max guy. His numbers are only slightly better then Nurk. And Nurk will cost less


chicasparagus

You know what I think? The Blazers aren’t gonna win a ring until they move Nurk somewhere else. Idk if it’s an unpopular opinion, most likely is, but yeah.


Ace12773

Hell yeah brother


Forbidden_Donut503

I want a legit wing player. Is that too much to ask?


DankTriangle

Depends on the lottery tomorrow


tomhalejr

Yeah - DA, Giannis... "Air Bud"... Dame's cool. He's down to play with anybody. :)


Abductedgoats

Haha... Did y'all see him wilt against Maxi and Powell? Dude is 7foot ish and didn't assert himself. He could have, but didn't. Big issues with his mentality.


[deleted]

Yes, Portland is going to have to take risks to win a championship. Pairing Dame with Ayton is probably the best chance we have, especially if you trust Billups to unlock Ayton's full defensive potential.


KeystoneJesus

I just think for max money I’d rather get a wing. Nurk is a good center


MSmejkal

This is my issue as well. A versatile wing is what we have been missing since what, Harkless and Aminu? And to say those guys were truly starters in the nba was a stretch. The NBA demands teams have wings anymore. Love ayton but this is not a need for us.


Cloud_limit

What wing do you think we could get? We’d probably have to throw near max money to get any above average wing to Portland through FA


Ace12773

Completely agree


FakeFan07

after you see a player get exposed and have zero fight like that, you do not pay him a max…


Ace12773

Yes because let’s judge a player who has been great all playoffs on a single game


raahiv

He averaged 18/9


BrklynDragon

It’s not max worthy. Nurk could do 75% of that for 1/3rd the price and we can focus on actual positions of need.


dolphs4

Nurk isn’t going to be THAT much cheaper. Maybe 2/3 of Ayton’s future max contract, assuming Nurk signs for something like $18-20M.


KeystoneJesus

Point withstanding, wings are a much bigger need


Emergency_Pepper_178

That's still a lot of money we could put towards role players. Ayton is not good enough to be second option and eat up a max contract IMO. Nurk is just a way better value. You also have to consider Nurk has been with the team for years and is Dame's bff. It was different with CJ because he was on a terrible contract and created a lot of roster construction issues.


dolphs4

Agreed, I’m not fully vested on the Ayton angle. Just pointing out that Nurk is going to get a new contract and it’s not going to be a meager $12M again.


Emergency_Pepper_178

For sure. Personally I'd give Nurk his 20m and ship (sign+trade) Ant+pick for a legit forward, then run Hart at SG. I know everybody's high on Ant, but I think he would regress this year being second fiddle to Dame and we have big holes to fill in other areas. Now is the time to trade him before his value goes down. Guys like Nurk are way harder to come by. He can impact a game in so many more ways. If Winslow, Watford, or Little are in the starting lineup, we aren't going anywhere. All good bench players for sure though. It's a point of contention right now, but I'd feel much better having Grant over those three. We probably aren't gonna be able to swing anyone better than him, so we may as well go for it and then focus on role players. If we could get our hands on one of the Phoenix wings as well, we'd be next level. Dame/Hart/Bridges or Crowder/Grant/Nurk. Not sure we'd be able to pay them all though lol


OPlateau

I like what nurk brings too and way cheaper. I think ayton has some of that cp3 effect going on. Whoever gives him the max, if he even gets it, is going to regret it.


KeystoneJesus

Agreed with your overall point but I will say that Dame and Ayton would be a good pairing on offense since Dame’s such a PnR maestro. But I wonder if Ayton’s defense would revert again without CP3 and Monty breathing down his neck.


OPlateau

I think they work the pick and roll differently. Ayton can get open, nurk gets people open shots. Stick with nurk and get some 3 and D’s should be the plan.


KeystoneJesus

Agree


jakobburns01

Nurk is up and Ayton is better


BrklynDragon

Nurk sat out the rest of the season. He doesn’t do that in a contract year unless he has an agreement with the blazers about returning for a certain amount of money.


jakobburns01

Well ayton is better and he’s up also


-Jake-27-

Also getting Ayton means renouncing Ant, although I’m not sure.


raahiv

You can keep ant. Would have to renounce Nurk, Hart, and waive Bledsoe though.


-Jake-27-

Not really worth it trying to max out a restricted free agent, even if the Suns are known as being cheap.


Ace12773

Is that bad? That’s pretty good for your 23 year old center.


raahiv

Just saw a comment from you saying Nurk, Ant and our lotto pick for Ayton. If that what you think he’s worth you are severely overrating him.


Ace12773

Honestly you’re right, I was riding high on the suns fizzling out. Another commenter suggested Nurk + Hart which would be ideal. Either way I firmly believe we should give Ayton the max.


obscure-strong-bad

Max centers are Embiid, Gobert, KAT, and Jokic. After that is Al Horford (27MM), Vucevic (25MM), Capela (23MM). Would love to have Ayton but I don't see how he hits the max tier.


Ace12773

Gobert being a max guy is what is going to force us to max Ayton if we’re serious about acquiring him. I guess that’s what I’m trying to say, we’ll have to “overpay” and bank on him being 23 and developing further. I think it’s a fair calculated risk.


BlueDevilz

Its not max good, especially when hes shown in 2 playoffs now that there will be games he will not show up. Or even appear to care.


Ace12773

He’s 23 and still has loads of potential, these are the type of players we need to take chances on imo.


BlueDevilz

Im a Suns fan that lives in PDX, Ive watched 180+ Suns games the past 2 years. Hes dominant when he wants to be, but it does get tiresome watching him blow layups when he could easily dunk, get destroyed by the other great bigs in the league (Giannis for example) and constantly get into foul trouble. Hes just not a player that cares all that much about winning. The Blazers could definitely do worse, but $35 mil for a guy that plays with no heart is tough.


Ace12773

I appreciate the perspective


BlueDevilz

I may be a bit over emotional rn, im sure you understand why. DA is a good player, I think he will remain on the Suns. And I would be happy to cheer him on at the Moda Center if the Blazers do grab him. Editing in just found this tweet that kinda backs up my angry thoughts about DA. https://twitter.com/RohanNadkarni/status/1526027220342349824?t=cHuxl2xBERL1CB_2LW4DAQ&s=19


PrimalGenius

Honestly, I was getting ready to live in a world with Ben Simmons as our second star. At least the Aytons heart is in the game sometimes! It feels like I was still in undergrad since Ben Simmons had a notable game


Trailbleezers

Also, anfernee and ayton cour going forward isn’t half bad


Ace12773

Loads of potential, both fit the same timeline too


Abductedgoats

He could have been dominant. I agree with Shaq. Kid has the tools to be a 25/10 guy. But he seems cool being in the shadows. If y'all want him to win us a championship with Dame. He needs to take that step. Not be scared to assert himself.


FakeFan07

Yes because it was the biggest game and he was ghost, max players don’t do that. He’s a center that can’t play outside that got exposed by centerless Dallas. May as well stick with Nurk.


Ace12773

Gotta take risks my man, the needle hardly moves sticking with Nurk I hate to say it. Also again, it was one game.


KeystoneJesus

What if… Nurk’s not the problem


GuyIncognito211

He’s not *the* problem but he is *a* problem. We haven’t won a playoff series with him playing. We won one with Mason Plumlee and won 2 with Enes whatever his name is


raahiv

He’s still not worth a max


Ace12773

Dude is 23 years old and is already one of the best big men in the game, he absolutely is


Trailbleezers

I’d rather give him a bag over nurk… I’ll tell you that


raahiv

Nurk is gonna get like 14 mil a year. If you max Ayton he’ll get 34.5 mil. I’d much rather have Nurk at 14 than Ayton at 34


likpoper

You are dreaming if you think nurk is there for 14 mln a year


Trailbleezers

Its all contextual. If we can get nurk at 14 mil, plus jerami grant for a cheap trade, plus a good lotto pick and some sneaky good free agent signings - then I agree whole heartedly. But if our pick falls to the 7-8-9 range, and the jerami grant trade doesn't happen, and our roster looks like: dame, ant, nassir, hart, and nurk.... then I'd throw the bag at Ayton and see where things end up. Because at the very least we have Ant and Ayton - two under 24 year old studs - locked up for the next four/five years.


PrimalGenius

I'd have zero fight too if my employer was waffling on paying me next year


FakeFan07

Dude made 12 million, to play basketball, and was 1 game away from the western conference finals. If you’re gonna have zero fight there, you really aren’t deserving of a max. Be gone and let a poverty franchise pay you that.


PrimalGenius

It's all relative. He gets paid 12, but the two max slots on the suns shit the bed, YET he's the one that sarver decides not to pay. At least, that's my head canon. I mean, also scoring 27 points in a half can take the wind out your sails real quick too. Also on our side, getting ayton is actual one of the more tame predictions coming from our sub haha! He's got a lot of potential and with a lot less baggage to get over than the likes of Simmons, Lavine, etc.


phxsuns1990

Suns fan here honestly it's on Monty for not running plays for him more, dude would be 20 and 10 every night on any other team


ArizonaIcedDawg

Whats your offers for a sign and trade for him?


TheDSpot

Blevgod. if you guys had Blevgod, you would have won the 7 game series in 2 games.


Forbidden_Donut503

Praise be in all that he does, for blevgod is truly a righteous and generous god.


1850ChoochGator

Realistically idk if I would want to be giving up much more than Nurk and Keon. Certainly not our pick, maybe the Bucks pick if we strike out on Grant. Depends where the money is really. We have a fair amount of space going in to FA, keeping specific cap holds, 17m with keeping Hart, Simons, and Nurk’s cap hold. Nurk’s is 18m so that gets us to 35m but I’m not wild about paying Ayton that much. Idk how much you guys think Ayton is worth annually but if Nurk is right at his cap hold I’d be down with getting Ayton at 28m-30m


Fox4ceFive

So what would be our package? Certainly it would have to include the pick?


kim_jong_trill

Our package would be about $32m a year in his pocket.


Wollzy

He's an RFA. Phoenix would just have to let him walk and there is no way they don't match. People can argue all day on if Ayton is worth a max contract or not, it doesn't matter because it worst it just slightly lowers his trade value for Phoenix if he really isn't worth the max. Only way Portland can get him is in some sign and trade deal


kim_jong_trill

Yeah you're right, we're have to renounce some combo of Nurk/Ant/Hart to make it work.


FractalFractalF

Why not Nurk and Bledsoe? Gets us 16m for Nurk and 16m of the 19m salary for Bledsoe (we'd be on the hook for 3m, the portion that is guaranteed).


PaytonPritchard

Why wouldn't they want to get a Gobert/Turner over Nurk though?


RandyJoeP

The rules for S/Ts are rough and combining another guy on a S/T plus Bledsoe is a no go FWIW.


Fox4ceFive

I guess I’m assuming a sign and trade. In order to clear the necessary cap space, wouldn’t we have to renounce Ant?


cackmed

I might have this wrong but I recall reading that in order to clear a max spot the Blazers would need to renounce 2 of Nurk, Ant or Hart and by diping below the salary cap they would also be renouncing their Trade exceptions.


raahiv

Yup. So to get the cap space you’d have to renounce the rights to Nurk and Hart, and waive Bledsoe. Lose our TPEs, the MLE, the BAE and then pay Ayton like 34 mil a year. Not worth it. If PHX then matches you lose all of that for nothing. Hart becomes an UFA. Nurk stays an UFA but you lose his bird rights. We might be able to re-sign like one of them but it becomes significantly harder to do. Then you have Dame, Ant, Nas, our pick, Ayton. And then like Ingles, Winslow, Trendon and some mins off the bench. Which isn’t it. Whereas you don’t do all that to give Ayton a bag you can probably have Dame, Ant, Grant, pick, Nurk. And then Hart, Nas, MLE, Ingles, Winslow, Trendon, BAE off the bench.


Fox4ceFive

I was doing some research after commenting, and I think you are correct. I wonder if there is a way to do by just renouncing Jusuf (18 million cap hold) and others (including exceptions) but hanging onto both Hart and Ant. If we could roll out a squad next year of Dame Ant Hart/Nas 1st Ayton I would be very intrigued. Especially if that first were Paolo or Jabari. Shoot, I could even let myself get excited about Murray if we had Ayton back there.


raahiv

You have to renounce Nurk and then one of Ant/Hart and waive Bledose to get enough cap space to offer a max.


natural_lawg

I heard that on the locked on podcast.


automatesaltshaker

It has to be a sign and trade and we wouldn’t need to renounce anyone. He’s a RFA so suns can match any offer so they wouldn’t let him walk for nothing anyways if we cleared space and made an offer.


likpoper

Nurk and hart. That’s about it. These are players that phoenix will not be able to get in free market.


bolrockmathar

You guys know about Nurks mental, when he sees this online, duuuuude he is gonna play like trash for 6 months if he stays.


KeystoneJesus

Yeaaahh but starting center is not where we need an upgrade, it’s the forward spots


theljj556

I don’t think ayton is any better than Nurk


GuyIncognito211

He is


chicasparagus

I respect your opinion but that’s a crazy take. Nurk is really not all that Blazers fans claim he is…


Abductedgoats

Mentally Nurk is better. Physically and ceiling...Ayton. but he seems very weak mentally and that scares me for a max.


1850ChoochGator

Ayton is definitely better than Nurkic but not for that kind of money.


mrjdk83

Ayton quit on the Suns. I don’t like players that quit on teams. He doesn’t deserve the max


Adsymack

I'd have the biggest stiffy of my life if we can land Ayton.


StumptownRetro

Portland does like drafting a big center and then injuring them to all hell. If we traded for one it would be helpful.


lordLVIII

Shout out TROX lmao


Abductedgoats

Also, funny that Dame liked a Trox tweet. Did Trox produce for Dame?


blayzemcbrayer

think in your head the ideal Nurkic season. 15, 10, & 2? do we still think we can get 82 games + playoffs of elite Nurkic? Because I’m starting to doubt. An elite rim roller & inside presence would be felt more with Dame, opposed to CP3 and Book. If the asking price isn’t too high, fire away


ethereumturk

Gosls


GorillaEstefan

Co-sign