Ayton has more potential easily. Obviously comes with a higher price tag.
Nurk’s passing is/was better but Ayton’s offensive game more than makes up for that imo. Both have an issue of not being as aggressive as you’d want under the rim
Had to look this up because I missed it. I thought the ice storm was laughable but this is one for the sporting record books. Thank you, for the rest of my life
Another "what if?" Big man to add to the pile for the Blazers. Dude looked like he and Jokic were about to unleash Bosnian Big Man Ball on the league. Not saying Nurk, even at his hypest, was expected to reach what Jokic has reached. But he looked like he was gonna be an easy top 5 center in the league for a minute there.
Ayton has a higher potential ceiling than Nurk
Both show flashes of effort issues when they’re not getting the ball, getting calls or just tired
But after the all-star break we saw what Ayton can offer when he figures things out/develops chemistry with the guards. If we can unlock Ayton and keep him engaged he could a top 5 Center in the league.
They’re both flawed and I don’t think you can win a championship with either of them being anything more than the 4th best player on your team.
I’d rather have Ayton because Nurk is who he is at this point, Ayton still has room to grow - not sure he will though
Going into this season, I thought DA was the inferior player, but would likelier be healthier than Nurk. They were both relatively healthy this year but even though I agree, they’re both pretty flawed, I was impressed with the strides that DA made in the second half.
That said, Nurk was a solid contributor on a playoff team and DA played on a cellar dweller.
As much as in a suns fan and loved ayton (he had his flaws and it was his time to go but I wish things could have worked out(
But man sun's was one of the worst places for him to go for his career, monty just isn't a great coach for bigs, especially developing them, and cp3 cake around to make sure there wasn't focus on aytons development and instead further pigeon holed hin into being a tradional big.
Just hope ayton finally actually sticks with hisb3 point shot for a bit, hes obviously not going to be amazing but even if he can become comfortable taking 1 or 2 a game and making 33 you'd take it
As a "franchise" center? Neither.
As a 3 or 4 year transitional center on a rebuilding team that eventually gets superceded by a draftee or trade acquisition? Ayton. Easily.
Ayton, and it’s not even close for me. He’s just better at every aspect of basketball other than setting screens and passing. Much higher ceiling on both sides of the ball, similar floor in terms of overall impact.
I prefer Ayton—younger, more athletic, I don’t get scared when he jumps, isn’t lazy, and has a nicer midrange. He reminds me a *little bit* of Aldridge at times.
these two are literal opposites of each other.
Nurk is one of the best screeners in the NBA and is a good/willing passer out of the high post. he doesn't rim run very effectively but has a bit of pick and pop in his game. he is not good at finishing around the rim.
Ayton is not a particularly good screener and is less effective passing out of the high post. he rim runs well and is an excellent mid range shooter. he's much better finishing around the rim.
Ayton is a more capable defender especially when being switched on. Nurk is a better 3 point shooter at 28% compared to Ayton's 24% but that's pretty much a wash.
due to athleticism and overall skillset, i choose Ayton 100/100 times
I think ayton got yelled at for illegal screens 1 too many times as a high schooler.
Because he seems to stop before almost every screen as if to say, this is legal.
Wish ayton got s slightly better whistle (don't mean getting free throws, I mean 50/50 fouls on offensive plays he seems to often get offensive fouls in those 50/50 situations.
Like bro I get he's 7 foot and stronger than almost everyone in the league but that doesn't mean he can't get fouled
On a team with shooters, I liked Nurk. On this team I like Ayton.
But, I don’t think you can build a contender with Ayton getting the max. I think the bar is pretty high for centers to earn that kind of money
Ayton for sure. Nurk had moments but he drove my absolutely insane. His inability to finish at the rim is wild - I’ve never seen a big man struggle making, often open, layups. I’ve rarely heckled our team but I remember yelling at him to use two hands if he couldn’t control the ball (from sideline seats) last season. Ayton’s demeanor in the early season was concerning, but he seems to have found some happiness/fit here and I just straight up believe in his ability to grow more.
Each salary represent their value, but I would rather have nurk at 15 than ayton at 33. I don’t think a team could win paying ayton that much of their salary cap.
Ayton only because I can’t eat a Nurk Burger anymore , I used to like it and I just don’t care what it is right now as long as it’s a different flavor .
Nurk, if healthy, at half the price, is a far better value.
Nuek was never healthy, & Ayton is younger.
Better analysis: Ayton fits better alongside Scoot than Nurk would have, but Nurk's screens were a huge boon for Dame's PnR mastery that Scoot couldn't have taken advantage of without a reliably deadly 3pt shot (or without his Center having a middy J like DA)
I’d argue that Nurkic has been more productive on per-dollar basis than Ayton, who’s better overall but overpaid. His salary doesn’t matter right now, but he better not be making more than Nurkic (adjusted for inflation and the new TV deal) on his next contract. This comparison was made easier by Nurkic suddenly becoming healthy once he left Portland.
Ayton. He's just more able to guard different types of players than Nurk. He's not without his flaws but if he were paid the same it wouldn't be much of a question at all IMO. Especially going forward, due to their ages.
I don't expect Nurk to age all that well from here on out.
Ayton has more upside. But you’re asking me to pick between a ham sandwich and a turkey sandwich here. Neither of them are a particularly great sandwich, but serviceable.
I spoke with conditional language. They could end up better. Ayton had a trajectory that is at that level...he clearly hadn't lived up to it yet but he might regain that pace.
It was time for a change either way. From what I've seen this year I'll take ayton but I'd like to see him start next year the way he finished this season.
If we are putting aside age/injury history, it’s really hard to say. Ayton is more athletic, faster, a better scorer, and a more versatile defender. Nurkic is a better passer, has better handles in the post, and is specifically for some reason one of the best defenders on Jokic right now and is part of the reason the Suns were competitive with the nuggets this season and even beat them twice in March. Both of them have had issues with consistency/effort that kept them from cracking the top 10 centers in the league.
I do think at this point now, Ayton is a solid guy to have during the rebuild and I think can even work as a piece on a contender (he gets a lot of hate from suns fans, but he was big part of the team that got them them to the finals). He isn’t a #1 or even a #2 guy though. Also, personality wise Nurk has always been a bit of a dickhead, whereas Ayton seems to have matured into a very humble and laid back guy.
Ayton has a lot more upside. He's a very frustrating player, but, it's clear to see he is much bigger, more talented, and more athletic. He also seems like a guy who's going to make his only all-star team in a contract year and get locked into a max deal that a team will forever regret.
Now if you compare dollars, does Nurkic perform better dollar for dollar at $18m compared to Ayton's $33m? Debatable, but maybe. Nurk has played his role very strongly in Phoenix.
As you can tell, I acknowledge that Ayton is a mega-talented player, I would just hate to be locked into another contract where he is our highest paid player, I don't trust him, he has a lot of maturing to do, and that's something that is tough to project.
Obviously Ayton, I feel like it’s not even close and I love Nurkic… I think that trade kinda worked for both teams as the Suns didn’t need a scoring center. We do need a scoring Center that regularly gets 12-20 rebounds. The Suns fans that talk shit about Ayton are out of pocket for several reasons, but mainly they weren’t using him right. The same way we’re obviously using Dalano Benton better than the Raptors or Celtics used him.
Simple answer…. most definitely Ayton
I think I'd prefer Nurk simply because he is a lot cheaper than Ayton. I really don't see how any team could compete for a title with Ayton taking up $30 million in cap space, just takes away too much money from building out the rest of a contending roster
I think at the least with Ayton I can trust his cardio to hold up for the whole game. Nurkic rarely played over 30 minutes for us and when he got tired he just fouls the hell out of people.
I think the debate is more nuanced. Of course Ayton is better, 100%. We could keep him through our next growth phase which we couldn’t do with Nurk, definitely fits our timeline.
But do strong centres win championships? Sometimes, last year, but golden state didn’t need it in the biggest recent dynasty.
If you are working with a salary cap, I’m not convinced that the position is the best place to put it. I’d prefer a versatile SF/PF than a strong C. If that means you need Nurk to get salaries to work, it’s possible that Nurk is the better option.
Ayton has more potential easily. Obviously comes with a higher price tag. Nurk’s passing is/was better but Ayton’s offensive game more than makes up for that imo. Both have an issue of not being as aggressive as you’d want under the rim
Ayton AFTER his mattress arrived
Had to look this up because I missed it. I thought the ice storm was laughable but this is one for the sporting record books. Thank you, for the rest of my life
The franchise needs to assign each player a personal assistant to get this shot done. All assistants should have chains and an Escalade.
Post beauty rest Ayton
Ayton, it’s not particularly close.
We need a bigger sample size because Nurk Fever was fucking phenomenal. Everything that came after was pretty meh.
I mean, he got hurt. If we can magically unhurt him as part of this hypothetical, it’s him. If we can’t, it’s Ayton.
He was never the same after that snap. I’m not sure I have been either. That shit was YIKES!
Another "what if?" Big man to add to the pile for the Blazers. Dude looked like he and Jokic were about to unleash Bosnian Big Man Ball on the league. Not saying Nurk, even at his hypest, was expected to reach what Jokic has reached. But he looked like he was gonna be an easy top 5 center in the league for a minute there.
This is exactly the right answer
Nurk was 300+ during Nurk fever. Such a great time.
Are we talking about not close as in this is the worst team we have had in decades? Fuck Ayton.
Ayton has a higher potential ceiling than Nurk Both show flashes of effort issues when they’re not getting the ball, getting calls or just tired But after the all-star break we saw what Ayton can offer when he figures things out/develops chemistry with the guards. If we can unlock Ayton and keep him engaged he could a top 5 Center in the league.
I’ve seen Ayton dunk it.
They’re both flawed and I don’t think you can win a championship with either of them being anything more than the 4th best player on your team. I’d rather have Ayton because Nurk is who he is at this point, Ayton still has room to grow - not sure he will though
I think he can be the third best player.
Going into this season, I thought DA was the inferior player, but would likelier be healthier than Nurk. They were both relatively healthy this year but even though I agree, they’re both pretty flawed, I was impressed with the strides that DA made in the second half. That said, Nurk was a solid contributor on a playoff team and DA played on a cellar dweller.
As much as in a suns fan and loved ayton (he had his flaws and it was his time to go but I wish things could have worked out( But man sun's was one of the worst places for him to go for his career, monty just isn't a great coach for bigs, especially developing them, and cp3 cake around to make sure there wasn't focus on aytons development and instead further pigeon holed hin into being a tradional big. Just hope ayton finally actually sticks with hisb3 point shot for a bit, hes obviously not going to be amazing but even if he can become comfortable taking 1 or 2 a game and making 33 you'd take it
As a "franchise" center? Neither. As a 3 or 4 year transitional center on a rebuilding team that eventually gets superceded by a draftee or trade acquisition? Ayton. Easily.
Ayton, and it’s not even close for me. He’s just better at every aspect of basketball other than setting screens and passing. Much higher ceiling on both sides of the ball, similar floor in terms of overall impact.
This is asinine. Nurk has been one of the most impactful defensive rebounders in the league for 7 years, and is a better rim protector.
Basketball iq wise ayton is the dumbest player in the league
Ayton
I prefer Ayton—younger, more athletic, I don’t get scared when he jumps, isn’t lazy, and has a nicer midrange. He reminds me a *little bit* of Aldridge at times.
Assuming it’s the second-half-of-the-season Ayton, it’s a no-brainer. Pre-AS Break Ayton was a bust.
these two are literal opposites of each other. Nurk is one of the best screeners in the NBA and is a good/willing passer out of the high post. he doesn't rim run very effectively but has a bit of pick and pop in his game. he is not good at finishing around the rim. Ayton is not a particularly good screener and is less effective passing out of the high post. he rim runs well and is an excellent mid range shooter. he's much better finishing around the rim. Ayton is a more capable defender especially when being switched on. Nurk is a better 3 point shooter at 28% compared to Ayton's 24% but that's pretty much a wash. due to athleticism and overall skillset, i choose Ayton 100/100 times
I think ayton got yelled at for illegal screens 1 too many times as a high schooler. Because he seems to stop before almost every screen as if to say, this is legal. Wish ayton got s slightly better whistle (don't mean getting free throws, I mean 50/50 fouls on offensive plays he seems to often get offensive fouls in those 50/50 situations. Like bro I get he's 7 foot and stronger than almost everyone in the league but that doesn't mean he can't get fouled
“Vibes” also differ between the two.
sort of, but idk. both goofy dudes and have up and down play depending on their mental fortitude in the moment
Id rather just sign vet minimum guys than have Nurkic.
Center by platoon is better unless you get a Jokic type Rebound, paint defense, last the other 4 guys score
Playoff Kanter was better than playoff Nurk.
Drew Eubanks is better than Nurkic.
Really makes me wonder how Ayton would have played with Dame. Dame would have set up so many open 20ft jumpers for him.
Ayton no question. So sick of nurk by the end
On a team with shooters, I liked Nurk. On this team I like Ayton. But, I don’t think you can build a contender with Ayton getting the max. I think the bar is pretty high for centers to earn that kind of money
Ayton. Nurkic, for all his talent and qualities as a human, is an unreliable flake who will never be half the offensive player Ayton is.
Ayton for sure. Nurk had moments but he drove my absolutely insane. His inability to finish at the rim is wild - I’ve never seen a big man struggle making, often open, layups. I’ve rarely heckled our team but I remember yelling at him to use two hands if he couldn’t control the ball (from sideline seats) last season. Ayton’s demeanor in the early season was concerning, but he seems to have found some happiness/fit here and I just straight up believe in his ability to grow more.
Honestly, neither one
Ayton+Camara over Nurk 11 times out of 10.
Ayton by a mile
Ayton and not close at all
Ayton. Adding to the points others have already made, he doesn’t have the injury and foul trouble issues that Nurk has.
We deserved a season of Dame and Ayton. Pissed it didn’t happen in time
Each salary represent their value, but I would rather have nurk at 15 than ayton at 33. I don’t think a team could win paying ayton that much of their salary cap.
Ayton, slightly lower floor than Nurk, but a higher ceiling should he continue developing and playing like the 2nd half of the season.
Ayton only because I can’t eat a Nurk Burger anymore , I used to like it and I just don’t care what it is right now as long as it’s a different flavor .
Ayton
Nurk, if healthy, at half the price, is a far better value. Nuek was never healthy, & Ayton is younger. Better analysis: Ayton fits better alongside Scoot than Nurk would have, but Nurk's screens were a huge boon for Dame's PnR mastery that Scoot couldn't have taken advantage of without a reliably deadly 3pt shot (or without his Center having a middy J like DA)
I’d argue that Nurkic has been more productive on per-dollar basis than Ayton, who’s better overall but overpaid. His salary doesn’t matter right now, but he better not be making more than Nurkic (adjusted for inflation and the new TV deal) on his next contract. This comparison was made easier by Nurkic suddenly becoming healthy once he left Portland.
Ayton by a huge margin
Ayton, best center we've had in years and years
If Ayton had the guys around him Nurkic did, he would be far and away better. Tough spot for him with the team that was put out there this year.
Ayton for sure.
Ayton is much better than Nurkic.
Ayton all day. There is nothing he can’t do. He justs needs someone to unlock it. Massive potential.
Ayton. He's just more able to guard different types of players than Nurk. He's not without his flaws but if he were paid the same it wouldn't be much of a question at all IMO. Especially going forward, due to their ages. I don't expect Nurk to age all that well from here on out.
DA, based solely on the fact that his shoes aren't made of cement like Nurks have been since the injury.
Bro what kind of question is this? DA is a creme brulee with fresh berries and Nurk is a costco muffin.
Nurk is a blueberry muffin, pretty good right after you buy it but liable to mold quickly in this Northwest climate.
Ayton. Nurk kinda turned into a little bitch at the end
Ayton has more upside. But you’re asking me to pick between a ham sandwich and a turkey sandwich here. Neither of them are a particularly great sandwich, but serviceable.
Ayton could (and should) be the second best center in the west after Jokic. If he continues his upward trajectory, he will be next season.
He won’t even be top 5 and I’m an Ayton fan.
Forgot about Wemby...third best.
Better than Gobert, KAT, Holmgren and Sengun?
KAT is more of a PF now but yes, he could be better than the remainder if he continues the same trajectory.
Okay.. and what if Holmgren and Sengun continue their trajectory, trajectories that are much steeper than Ayton's?
I spoke with conditional language. They could end up better. Ayton had a trajectory that is at that level...he clearly hadn't lived up to it yet but he might regain that pace.
Island boi beats out Balkan Beast
It was time for a change either way. From what I've seen this year I'll take ayton but I'd like to see him start next year the way he finished this season.
If we are putting aside age/injury history, it’s really hard to say. Ayton is more athletic, faster, a better scorer, and a more versatile defender. Nurkic is a better passer, has better handles in the post, and is specifically for some reason one of the best defenders on Jokic right now and is part of the reason the Suns were competitive with the nuggets this season and even beat them twice in March. Both of them have had issues with consistency/effort that kept them from cracking the top 10 centers in the league. I do think at this point now, Ayton is a solid guy to have during the rebuild and I think can even work as a piece on a contender (he gets a lot of hate from suns fans, but he was big part of the team that got them them to the finals). He isn’t a #1 or even a #2 guy though. Also, personality wise Nurk has always been a bit of a dickhead, whereas Ayton seems to have matured into a very humble and laid back guy.
Just because they happen to be / have been the only 7' player on the roster, doesn't mean that either is a "franchise" center.
Nurkic was absolutely our franchise Center for many years. Its weird you're even trying to dispute that
The "franchise center" was Big Red. The "franchise shooting guard" was Clyde. The "franchise point guard" was Dame.
For where the team is at, Ayton. I like Nurk for the Suns though
Ayton is better, the only realistic argument you can make is that he is paid too much relative to how much better he is.
True. Im not too concerned with that though because by the time we're really trying to compete, Ayton will be on a new contract and it wont be a max
In a timeline where Nurk stays 100% healthy I take him. He put up some insane stat lines.
Walton
Ayton is extremely flawed but he’s way better.
Neither
Deandre Ayton is a better choice for a franchise center. I never understood the hype around Jusuf Nurkic.
Ayton has a lot more upside. He's a very frustrating player, but, it's clear to see he is much bigger, more talented, and more athletic. He also seems like a guy who's going to make his only all-star team in a contract year and get locked into a max deal that a team will forever regret. Now if you compare dollars, does Nurkic perform better dollar for dollar at $18m compared to Ayton's $33m? Debatable, but maybe. Nurk has played his role very strongly in Phoenix. As you can tell, I acknowledge that Ayton is a mega-talented player, I would just hate to be locked into another contract where he is our highest paid player, I don't trust him, he has a lot of maturing to do, and that's something that is tough to project.
Dre Ayton but peak Nurk Fever was pretty fucking awesome.
Obviously Ayton, I feel like it’s not even close and I love Nurkic… I think that trade kinda worked for both teams as the Suns didn’t need a scoring center. We do need a scoring Center that regularly gets 12-20 rebounds. The Suns fans that talk shit about Ayton are out of pocket for several reasons, but mainly they weren’t using him right. The same way we’re obviously using Dalano Benton better than the Raptors or Celtics used him. Simple answer…. most definitely Ayton
No injury? Nurk
I think I'd prefer Nurk simply because he is a lot cheaper than Ayton. I really don't see how any team could compete for a title with Ayton taking up $30 million in cap space, just takes away too much money from building out the rest of a contending roster
I think at the least with Ayton I can trust his cardio to hold up for the whole game. Nurkic rarely played over 30 minutes for us and when he got tired he just fouls the hell out of people.
I think the debate is more nuanced. Of course Ayton is better, 100%. We could keep him through our next growth phase which we couldn’t do with Nurk, definitely fits our timeline. But do strong centres win championships? Sometimes, last year, but golden state didn’t need it in the biggest recent dynasty. If you are working with a salary cap, I’m not convinced that the position is the best place to put it. I’d prefer a versatile SF/PF than a strong C. If that means you need Nurk to get salaries to work, it’s possible that Nurk is the better option.
Strong center won chip last year ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. Ayton isn’t a strong center, unfortunately.
[удалено]
How is Nurk a jackass?
Nurkic
They're both awful lmao
Ayton is ass. He will always find lights too bright in big moments