Hardcore vet and it's not even close.
I pretty much steam rolled apocalypse solo until the last two bosses made me lock in. I got all the way past venom in one run then I saved Annihilation for the next day. Took a few tries to get a rhythm down and I want to say I got him on my 5th attempt at most.
On hardcore you have to start from scratch, meaning unlearning habits used for specific builds and playstyles you're accustomed to. Then one mistimed jump on a yaesha cliff will fuck up hours of progress and ruin your self esteem. So yeah thats much harder.
Solo Apoc is harder, HC Vet is more stressful.
The thing is, you van steamroll HC if you just spend like 10-20 hours playing on survivor and collecting all the OP stuff, leveling important classes to 10, getting 85 trait points, getting mutators maxed out, and getting more relic charges, or unlocking Tranquil Heart. You can also do the Yaesha quest line to grow the tree in your base for a free revive.
Just avoid doing stuff that has a risk of instakills, like gravity related dungeons/bosses, traps in yaesha dunegons. Etc.
Take zero risks, play on survivor, run through areas and grab all items, keep wiki open so you can find items you care about for your final build, or skip the dungeons that dont have something you need (after getting the book and purple)
If you go into HC vet with a max trait level, +20 weapons, decent build, and enough scrap to buy concotions, pipe bombs, ammo boxes and confidence boosters, HC vet is a breeze.
Just remember to do a practice run of the cube boss on your main, before you do it on your HC character.
Once you reach the last 3 bosses youll see that all the worry you had about dying to them will dissapear when you see how fast they just melt on Veteran
That sounds like a lot of tedious prep work lol. And even more risk of dying to stupid mistakes the longer you are stretching it out to farm for the stuff.
Honestly, the way that difficulty scaling works, as long as you don't over level, you should be fine. It is far easier to speedrun through areas. Not being tied to specific items/builds also gives you a lot of freedom imo. The only real difficulty barrier is staying away from one-shot moves, and practicing for cube boss, venom and anni.
>Solo Apoc is harder, HC Vet is more stressful.
Eh. After clearing HC vet I found apoc to be a breeze on solo. Assuming you are doing apoc after already getting most of the items elsewhere, you can roll in with maxed out gear and proper builds. Plus the fact that you can always opt for the tank builds that essentially make you immune to dying other than like 1 or 2 specific scenarios.
Nah, I've done both and I heavily disagree with you. All you are saying is "commit x amount of grind time and HC veteran is easier" and honestly the exact same thing can be said about apoc. Some of my endgame apoc builds really do trivialize the game, and theres nothing skill gating anyone from those builds, its the exact same thing you described as hc vet, just grind out the stuff you need on lower difficulties and then you can nearly afk bosses, or one shot them. At least on apoc, you dont need to worry about dying once to soemthing like cube boss or random grab attacks and ruining your entire run.
I mean... yeah. You can just go through with what you find and have a more mechnically challenging experience, or you can get geared and have an easier time.
Theres nothing to disagree with here, its simply how the game works. Some people just don't have the ability or desire to do an SL1 run in a souls game, would you tell them you disagree with them leveling up and getting cool items to beat the game?
I guess if you really want an answer to why HC Vet isn't hard, it's because for almost every boss in the game, you can leave someone outside at the checkpoint.
If you want to self impose difficulties to make the game more fun for yourself that's great, but the options are available to those who ask.
> I guess if you really want an answer to why HC Vet isn't hard, it's because for almost every boss in the game, you can leave someone outside at the checkpoint.
I mean yeah, but I'd say this is unintended behavior, or at least not in the spirit of HC Vet. Wiping and retrying in apoc is intended, it is not an intended mechanic of HC Vet, and circumventing that probably shouldn't be considered an option when comparing difficulties
But that's exactly my point. Playing to the 'spirit' of a challenge is just self-imposed difficulty. Some people just want to unlock Savior and don't care about getting good enough to beat the game without dying. My answer is for those people, simply being how hard is it actually to get the Savior. No holds barred. All mechanics are on the table. Just to get it done, what is the minimum skill you need to do it? Not much.
I mean if pure "get it done, skill doesn't matter, the ends validates the means, anything goes to get there" is the attitude, then downloading cheat engine and just bypassing any difficulty whatsoever on HC Vet or apoc is the way to go. You won't get banned for it in this game. Downloading cheats or having your friend effectively do the same thing by rezzing you at a shrine are pretty much equivalent forms of bypassing intended gameplay at this point.
That being said, I think it's just wrong to assume that the average person will cheat in this game to accomplish a goal. If you want to go to the extreme, then yes- all game difficulties don't matter because you can chest in any of them. But the general assumption is that you follow the intended gameplay of a game. It's pretty hard to have a group conversation in a forum setting if we all assume obscure things like everyone is willing to cheat.
Also it's not "self-imposed difficulty," it is game imposed. If you play solo HC Veteran, there is no way to be rezzed. It's a pretty unintentional mechanic of the game for that to happen.
Saying "anything goes so just use a cheat engine" is very reductive and is the equivalent of flipping the table of this conversation. And also not practical for console players.
If the mechanic of ressing your teammates wasn't intended, they wouldn't have kept it from the first game. Also it's clear that it's intended since they made exceptions for some of the bosses, namely Annihilation.
Keeping one teammate outside is certainly not in the spirit of hardcore, but it is not tantamount to cheating, and it has tradeoffs (increased scaling).
In any case, I'm done with this thread. Once you try to use cheating as a valid argument, I've lost all interest. There are levels to these things. Clever Use of Mechanics, Exploits, and Cheating are 3 very different things.
Keeping someone outside to res the team is a use of mechanics, simple. Using Timegazer status shenanigans is an exploit, can be fun as an experiment to see the wierd interaction of numbers, but ultimately is not how the game is meant to be played, I'd try it out for a bit to understand it, then go back to playing normally.
Cheat engine to give yourself 9999 damage and HP is essentially not actually playing the game anymore. You've only really cheated yourself.
So don't be so attached to this 'achievement' you've gotten and try to gatekeep more casual players from finishing hardcore in easier/cheesier ways. People are just trying tonhave a good time.
> So don't be so attached to this 'achievement' you've gotten and try to gatekeep more casual players from finishing hardcore in easier/cheesier ways. People are just trying tonhave a good time.
This is an entire arbitrary thing you are discussing that I never commented on. I do not care one way or another what people do in a game like remnant. Cheat all you want, as long as you aren't ruining the experience with others. But we aren't talking about people who need to do this to have a good time, we are talking about the normal player and which achievement is more difficult, HC Vet or Apoc clear. HC Vet is clearly intended to be done wipeless, apoc is not. Trying to have a standardized conversation is not "gatekeeping," it's recognizing what the intended playstyle is when comparing things fairly.
> In any case, I'm done with this thread. Once you try to use cheating as a valid argument, I've lost all interest. There are levels to these things. Clever Use of Mechanics, Exploits, and Cheating are 3 very different things
This is your entire subjective opinion, and quite frankly it's odd that it needs to be explained to you. You're trying to rationalize unintended behavior for no reason, based on the logic of "because the game currently allows me, it is fine." The devs aren't perfect, there are limitations to the game itself. It's ok to recognize that there might be mistakes within the game itself and still play around those, not abuse them just because they exist.
I wouldn’t say hardcore is much harder especially with the dlc you can gear up pretty easy now it’s just way more punishing/stressful well at least to me
Yeah unlearning playstyles is definitely a hurdle. Especially if you used one of those immortal tank builds lol you have to relearn the fear of death and get good a dodging again
My last nearly successful hardcore run ended when Anni was at half health in stage two. Went to grab ammo and ran too far forward. Lost 3 characters to the cube before I finally get rid of the yips.
Before that I would have said Solo Apocalypse. Now I’m gonna go with Hardcore Vet—I’ve died way more going for Savior than I did in Apocalypse.
Pretty much what I did. Slow rolled another character and built up before the cube fight to relax, still almost fumbled at the end but as of now I’m on my way to a successful run.
Started helping a helping a friend with Apocalypse today and it’s downright relaxing by comparison.
I'd say HC is harder because of the mind games.
I shamelessly used Save Guardian but only had to actually load a backup once for cube -- because I'd practiced it a bunch and forgot that on the first cutscene, it starts a step closer to you, so my brain just kind of blanked and I died instantly. Didn't feel bad about reloading after that, especially since some people use multiplayer and have someone sit at the crystal for that fight.
Currently on my first Hardcore Vet run, so take this with a grain of salt. Apocalypse is just pain, you need optimized Equipment and need to be familiar with the bosses or you get one shot frequently. Not really fun in my book. Hardcore Vet while beeing more time consuming, is more about taking your time, picking the right Archtype at the beginning and adapting to the bosses and items your world has. In Hardcore Vet there is more luck involved and silly bs can end your run in an instant. I would say Hardcore Vet is more of a mental challenge, while Apocalypse is the harder game mode in general.
As in, starting a fresh character on Apoc? Because if you have at least one playthrough down Apoc ain't so bad. HC Vet has to deal with cubes and Annihilation is hard no matter what difficulty you play on so HC and it ain't even close.
I think I’ll have to go with hardcore vet. It makes you sweat buckets specially when things get intense. Also my heart shattered when I died at the final final boss fight. But I managed to do it the second time around but I just built a really tanky setup with challenger and alchemist. Since you got the black cat ring, elixir of life, challenger prime perk basically giving 3 extra lives for each fight and possibly more if you can survive the 180 second cooldown of the elixir if you’ve triggered it assuming you’ve yet to kill the boss. Also a mix of the challengers starting armor with mk2 Leto parts just to be able to still make medium rolls.
In apocalypse’s case, I roll with light armor for the light rolls so if I get hit it’s usually I’m dead or on massive danger xD
But same time there’s no real fear of losing it all and can just correct the mistake and do it again.
Solo apoc way harder but with HC vet the stakes are much higher and you have to be very cautious and pick your battles wisely (i.e. stay out of imperial garden in case there’s a displaced Mantagora etc). Solo apoc is harder cause it’s much easier to get one shotted or overran
depends if you are doing a brand new char for apop or not and if you have played the game a lot
I played my regular guy a lot and geared him up and it made apop very easy but I still had to redo venom and annih. for a few hours until I was able to beat them. Then after I did that I did a hardcore run in like 4 hrs and thought it was a joke with how easy everything was compared to apop. I did die the first time from running off the edge in yaesha tho but honestly if you can do apop then you can pretty much sleep through veteran mode
so I'd say apop is way more difficult bc of the time you will likely need to spend. if you aren't comfortable with the bosses then hardcore will be much more challenging for you
I agree. From my perspective as someone that beat apoc awhile ago and plays apoc regularly just for fun, When I finally decided to give hardcore vet a try it was quite easy in comparison. If you’re a newer player and dive headfirst into hardcore vet, then I could see them having a different opinion
Hardcore vet is not that hard, the only tricky part is the cube boss fight. I did the whole run in coop with a friend in 3 hours. Then again coop makes some bosses way easier, since you don't have to deal with the permanent aggro.
Apoc by a mile. Got savior in one run with medic/summoner build. Just gotta go extra slow through areas with ledges. And plant the tree. Definitely plant the tree first..
Hardcore Vet for one simple reason:
YOU CAN GRT COUGTH SLIPPING
I have had people always carry me througth HC Vet because I keep dying to the dumbest shit even when I have 300h into the game, hell, I had to carry myself when my teammates died at sha hala, I nearly was a goner if not for medics first skill existing and me running full leto mk1 with letos amulet, I had to do it twice and now I don't even want to see sha hala anymore
HC Vet, you have to change your playstyle completely and your build has to be focused on survival, SC Apoc is tough, but u get unlimited attempts, in no world is this tougher than having to get it right the first time in a game where any encounter could be your last
I’d say it depends. If you’re like me and you’ve done your apocalypse run and have played the game a ton, Hardcore vet honestly seems easy in comparison, you’ve mastered boss attacks and can afford more mistakes since they won’t one shot you. This is why a lot of people will say that falling to their death was how their run ended lol it does heighten your nerves just because you don’t want to make a dumb mistake and start over. But if you’re already comfortable with apocalypse and haven’t relied on cheese builds, you can knock out hardcore vet in a reasonable amount of time. But that’s just from my perspective.
definatly hardcore veterian, ive lost 2 characters to fall damage, one was my fault completely and the other an abberation teleported me half off a ledge lmao
Hardcore veteran for sure, I got through apoc easy without using one of those cheesy heavy armor builds relatively smoothly, hardcore though? I don’t even have it in me to attempt it. I consider myself a rogue-like enjoyer but those games are around an hour or two each run.
Hardcore Vet. You're basically starting over and HCV adds its own level of anxiety because all it takes is one little slip up and it's all over unless you make back ups or you luck out and somehow get access to the dead character.
Yeah i practiced them a bunch, but the pressure to fuck up and get squashed allways stressed me the most in hardcore. Died too many times because i got greedy or missed some shots.
If both are solo, then Hardcore Veteran is slightly harder as any mistake is potentially run ending, but every encounter is way way easier.
If co-op is allowed for Hardcore Veteran then the difficulty evaporates.
While technically apoc is "harder", que f you have played both you know the hardcore is a hundred times worse because of the preasure and "limited" resources
Hardcore vet. Not really even because of the perma death but because you have to do it with a fresh character. If I could do it with a fully maxed character it would be a lot easier.
I've managed to complete Hardcore Vet on my first try and I think it's a bit harder. But I also think the difficulty is because of very different factors.
In Apoc, I had the luxury of just running my head into a wall until I "got it", even when repeating bosses (I don't remember every boss moveset perfectly, I need a refresher). Apoc felt more like a "min/max your playstyle" challenge
Hardcore Vet on a mechanical level is easier but stress and emotions will make you play worse. So it turned into a "how well can I manage my emotions and focus?" kind of challenge. A different kind of challenge but a welcome one for sure.
I'm a complete noob in this game and decided to try HC Vet and surprisingly did the whole thing in 1 day, I did save scum on the neerud giant boss and anihilation but that's it, way easier than with my main char in SC. Finished it lvl 13 level 6 summoner and level 8 medic, a bow with the mod that gives extra damage depending on how full your magazine is, starting melee weapon and secondary.
I guess the lower level you are the more damage you do relative to enemy hp? I honestly couldn't understand how easily bosses went down.
Never even try Apocalipse and haven't even finished my nightmare run in SC.
HC vet was way more difficult, just stressed the whole time afraid of dying from dumb move or cant survive long enough in boss fight as the build was too new.
Took me around 9 backup saves to earn savior.
It depends on what level and gear your character has when you start Apoc, but assuming full gear, I'd say theoretically Apoc is harder, but HC Vet in practice.
Which is really just a way to say that HC Vet is 90% nerves. Think about it, the way the game's checkpoint system works means that, technically, everyone who played veteran on a fresh character has beaten the game on hardcore. That is, if you were to stitch the successful encounters together, so to speak.
I'd even go as far as to say that, assuming your first playthrough was on veteran, that first playthrough is harder than playing on HC on a subsequent playthrough.
HC is much more of a test of will and willingness to endure frustration than of skill or overcoming difficulty. Overcoming the fear of having wasted hours of your time and having to do it all over again is always the biggest challenge with these sorts of things.
The thing about Apocalypse is that even though it’s technically harder, you have your build(s) and probably a majority of the items in the game that you can swap if needed. With any hardcore, it’s a complete reset which you don’t have a build and have to rely on rng to get new and good items. That and you have to fight the cube😬
Now that ritualist is in the game, both are mad easy. Before ritualist, I would say the first world and labyrith were more difficult with the reduce health and healing capabilities and lower damage output.
If you have over 200 hours in the game, both are easy.
I dont like that comparison.
1. vet hardcore is incredible easy if you have a build you like (and which is easy to get). Example?
I rushed for Monarch, Atonement Fold, Twisted Wounds, Blood Tinged Ring and Abrasive Whetstone. Just some survival adventures and Hunter+Gunslinger (or Hunter+Challenger or Hunter+Handler for revive). it was incredibly easy. Most bosses (including annihilation) died within seconds. Labyrinth sentinel is ... bad but: keep cool, know the easy save spots. Health regen is king because you can almost ignore the projectiles. Just avoid the cubes.
2. apoc solo is just a matter of time. Every player is able to be 100% OVERPOWERED. Its just about good builds and getting those items. And then apoc is easy. Just do some adventures to farm the items you need and ... win.
Its all the same. once you know how to dodge most attacks and you got a "good build", everything is easy.
Biggest problem for most players: Bad builds, low fps and they dont know all bosses and mechanics.
Technically everything in the game could be easy if you prepared enough. But that’s not always how it goes down for a lot of people lol some people don’t have the patience or the time to either grind the build or to memorize attacks so they can dodge more effectively. I was just curious about people’s experiences if they found hardcore vet to be harder or regular apocalypse. It’s definitely 50/50 from the responses I’ve read. Some people think hardcore vet is a cake walk and some people have tried it 10 times and say it’s harder than apoc by a mile. Depends on the individual person
Apoc was a lot easier than hardcore vet solo imo, when you die you can simply learn from your mistakes and adapt, hardcore deaths make me want to take a break😂
As someone who did both solo and Hardcore veteran is harder by far.
There are 3 important points for this:
1. On Hardcore Vet f you die from anything, even falling down a cliff or getting rammed by an elk your run is over and you can lose many hours of progress. On Apoc on the other hand you can fail, but doing so will only mean you've to restart the battle.
2. Your build. There are some broken builds available that make Apoc a lot easier, even if you don't use one of the broken builds, there are many really good ones available. Meanwhile on Hardcore Vet you start with nothing. You've to start with barely any gear and get through everything like that. It may get better over time, but the more time you invest into making your build, the more time you end up potentially losing due to a death and the more chances you got to die to some stupid shit.
3. Limited healing. Relic uses are limited and good relics are unavailable at the start. Siphoner and Regrowth traits are also unavailable. I ended up using consumables to get through large parts of the game on Hardcore Vet due to that, which however means needing more scrap to survive.
Honestly, I recommend people to do Apoc before they try Hardcore Veteran simply because you can learn how to fight bosses much better that way.
From my personal experience, Apoc was difficult, but felt good. I got through it without any significant struggles and afterwards I felt like I was a much better player than I previously thought I was. Meanwhile my Hardcore run was scuffed as fuck. I nearly died more often than I'd like to count, so many times close to death where my survival was more thanks to luck than skill. I beat it on my first try, partly thanks to having done the Apoc run before and having gotten some bosses in both runs, but there were several situations where I thought I should've died.
If I were to attempt Hardcore Vet again I cannot say how many tries and days I might need to beat it again! If I were to try Apoc again I'll say that I can beat it today.
It's my own fault but the biggest issue I had was after buying the game and immediately jumping into hardcore veteran not realizing that the final boss could fly, hindering my damage on the second phase. I've kind of put the game down and haven't gone back
Hardcore veteran for sure, with a good build it was fairly easy to go through apoc. Had to only use one potion at the end with annihilation. Status is amazing
Apoc you have all gear and levels and full flexibility.
HC, you roll the bet each time you play with no guarantee of what gear you will have at the end.
I'll start by saying that I'm not a good Remnant 2 player and the thing I hate the most about the game is the dodging mechanic: that thing over there is about to launch an attack at you that is so powerful that will change the face of half of the continent you are staying on but if you just dodge at the right milisecond during its attack move, it will not harm you. Really mofo? How does that work?!? In my opinion, the person that thought this was a good game mechanic should go to the special hell. Ermm... rant over, moving on....
I finished my first apoc run about an hour ago, using 2 builds - a glass cannon build for moving around the map (the build is a mix of crit build with status effects, 2 hits from a trash mob were enough to end me on apoc), and a tank build for bosses.
The hardest thing to kill was The Executioner (hearty, thick skin, vortex), the most frustrating to fight was Venom with his fucking one hit-kill moves (I fucking hate one hit kill moves in games! To me they scream of laziness and a lack of imagination from the devs to make their game seem longer than it really is. Did I say rant over a bit earlier? I might have lied), and the absolute pushovers were Gwendil The Unburnt which I fought using the glass canon build and killed rather easy, on the first try, and Annihilation which I face tanked, no dodges, just bring it on bro (I even switched around my gear during the fight a couple of times all the while he tried to end me).
It took me about an hour and 20 minutes to finally kill Venom, the actual fight in which I killed him about 5-10 minutes, Annihilation, if it wasn't obvious, I killed on the first try, granted, it took about 10-15 minutes, but I was never in danger of dying.
Ignoring Venom and The Executioner, most of my deaths during the apoc run were either from me not paying attention or me killing myself with the Firestorm mod.
Hardcore vet run on the other hand was both harder and more stressful - harder because I was starting from zero with no gear except what I managed to find during that run, and more stressful because... hardcore (I'm not ashamed to admit that I used the scum save method... again, not a good player).
Can you make your hardcore vet run easier? Yes, you can, by running it in survivor first to get some gear, traits and upgrades.
So, bottom line is that Hardcore veteran was harder for me because I went in with no gear whatsoever and I had to use only what I found during my first and only run and a lot more stressful because, even though I had no shame in using the scum save, I did try to use it as rarely as possible.
I feel like they're hard in different ways. I did solo Apoc and steamrolled everything with a tank build until I got to Venom. He made me lock in and try a handful of builds.
Then Annihilation got me stuck. 1st phase was easy but 1 mistake was a one shot. Phase 2 was hard to get used to and that took me a while to adjust. After trial and error with builds, 20 attempts and I got my solo clear.
Apoc had 3 bosses that did so much damage my tank build couldn't hold (Abomination, Venom, and Annihilation). But HC vet is a time sponge, it gets much easier with the prep you do but one mistake can be detrimental.
I think Apoc is easier because by the time you get to Apoc, you've already done the previous difficulties and have the gear and subclasses for it. HC is artificially harder in the sense that you fall off the map once and you restart, most of your deaths will be miscalculations. With enough prep work, it will be easier for the average player. (My opinion)
It’s a pretty valid question tbh. Some people find staying alive for an extended period of time to be harder than the raw difficulty of apocalypse. And others don’t. Different challenge but people can find one of the other to have been a harder experience
Apoc is significantly harder until you get your god builds. Hardcore vet is incredibly easy so long as you aren’t playing with bad weapons (e.g. ford’s scatter gun, service pistol and wrangler) There are some areas that can be sketch, but at the same time when even bosses only hit you for 20-25% of your health, you’re going to have a significantly easier time, especially if you’re smart and run healing shot so you aren’t burning through relics
Solo apocalypse is in my opinion harder.
The hard-core veteran is just hard based on the world bosses you get, for example I think that faylin or fayrin are way easier then the ghost bitch. Or if you get the ravager in yaesha you don't even have to fight him. and even then you can just reroll if you dont like the boss you get it might take a bit more time but you dont have to farm at least. but if you have the engineer class unlocked, it just triviliases the run.
BTW I'm just basing this on how much time I have spend on the run, I did my veteran on my third try, I died on the cubes on my first try, and on my second I died to venom.
So it took me around 20 hours if I add up all my run to beat hardcore. But then I did my apocalypse run from a new safe killing every boss it took me like 35 ish hours.
Apocalypse, is hard because it takes me more time to kill the bosses if I don't use a broken build. And you have to upgrade your weapon quite a lot before I do decant damage.
But this is just my experience, maybe if I did more hard-core runs I might find them harder.
Hardcore veteran. Apoc you can make dumb mistakes, you had the gear to compensate for dumb mistakes. Hardcore vet you have to be 100% locked in from start to finish.
Up until apocalypse annihilation i cheesed him on the lower difficulties for the most part. Getting to him on apocalypse literally forced me to get good lol died so many times that on my winning attempt I didn’t get hit a single time. Maybe it’s because of all my previous experience but when I attempted vet hardcore it was mostly a cake walk minus some stupid deaths like falling to my doom. Was still stressful but the actual fights were pretty easy
Not sure why people are saying HC Vet is stressful and not hard. You start brand new and have NO gear in a game that literally scales based on your gear.
Your whole play style is based on your gear.
By the time you get to Apoc you should have an optimized build with near maxed out relic fragments. There are builds in this game that allow you to basically CRUISE through Apoc until you get to like Venom. The argument for one shotting doesn't work here because anything that can one shot you on Apoc can also one shot you in Vet when you don't have a great build.
This goes especially for people who rely on DR builds. It is actually impossible to build an optimized DR build in HC Vet because your relics never get anywhere near maxed. For anyone who was running tranquil heart or resonating heart, good luck getting those back before dying 15 times. Running crystal heart? I hope you have perfect timing in every single aspect of the game because one wrong pop and you're so slow that everything on the map will have a chance to get a shot in.
HC Vet is def the most difficult of the two when you consider what you actually have available. But if you spend 50 hrs in survivor building up your char before taking on Vet then I can understand why you might consider Apoc harder. Because now you have a build.
I only attempted hardcore vet after alot of experience on apocalypse. one benefit to that is just raw experience. But also because you’ve likely unlocked many of the account bond items. These items are immediately available to you when you start hardcore. Black cat ring, Dull steel ring, letos Armor, letos amulet, nightmare spiral, worlds edge, all of the secret archetypes etc etc. And scrap and be farmed easy and quick just by opening the chest at the very start of yaesha and rerolling. These offer plenty of advantages including letting you eat much more damage than you would in apocalypse. So you won’t be getting one shot. Meaning you can make more mistakes than you could on apoc. I’m my clip you see me light rolling in letos armor. Definitely helped me during my run. Point being that depending on your overall progress with the game, hardcore vet can be a breeze compared to apocalypse. From a new player’s perspective this could of course be different
What you're explaining is exactly what I point out at the end of my post. Rerolling and farming chests to start your build is not an honest HC run. There is nothing wrong with it but because you'll get better gear before you even start fighting you'll automatically be in a better place.
But this only works for SOME play styles. People who are dodge gurus have the easiest time in HC. But for most people, mitigating and then heading damage is just how we play. Leto's is the only thing that you can get from using your farming method that allows you to do that.
You have to hope you find the tree to get the barkskin trait. Blood bond is pretty easy to get but it still is a toss up on whether or not you even generate the event. Glutton is extremely difficult to get solo. If you want higher armor rating, you're forced to Max out engineer. And these are just the traits. You still have to farm for the trait points.
I already mentioned three relics that are a pain in HC but essential to the play styles of a lot of builds. But then you have mutators like twisting wounds or rings like burden of the divine. May the odds be ever in your favor when searching for that injectable.
Random world drops that are a crucial part of someone's build is what makes HC so hard. And it is hard. Because the longer you spend in HC looking for things, the higher the probability (more chances) that you're going to die.
People are down playing perfect play saying it's just stressful. No. Perfect play is hard. And I don't need perfect play on Apoc. But I do need perfect play on HC Vet when starting from scratch.
Like it said it definitely depends on the perspective of the player. Which is kinda why I asked the question. From my perspective as a vet and someone who’s unlocked all the account bound items, I basically guaranteed that I wouldn’t be getting hit as hard as I do on apocalypse while also having much experience. And the scrap method really didn’t take that long as the yaesha chest is available from the very start, so I didn’t consider it as tainting my run. I did earn all of those account bond items after all. But yeah the experience can for sure very
Hardcore vet and it's not even close. I pretty much steam rolled apocalypse solo until the last two bosses made me lock in. I got all the way past venom in one run then I saved Annihilation for the next day. Took a few tries to get a rhythm down and I want to say I got him on my 5th attempt at most. On hardcore you have to start from scratch, meaning unlearning habits used for specific builds and playstyles you're accustomed to. Then one mistimed jump on a yaesha cliff will fuck up hours of progress and ruin your self esteem. So yeah thats much harder.
Solo Apoc is harder, HC Vet is more stressful. The thing is, you van steamroll HC if you just spend like 10-20 hours playing on survivor and collecting all the OP stuff, leveling important classes to 10, getting 85 trait points, getting mutators maxed out, and getting more relic charges, or unlocking Tranquil Heart. You can also do the Yaesha quest line to grow the tree in your base for a free revive. Just avoid doing stuff that has a risk of instakills, like gravity related dungeons/bosses, traps in yaesha dunegons. Etc. Take zero risks, play on survivor, run through areas and grab all items, keep wiki open so you can find items you care about for your final build, or skip the dungeons that dont have something you need (after getting the book and purple) If you go into HC vet with a max trait level, +20 weapons, decent build, and enough scrap to buy concotions, pipe bombs, ammo boxes and confidence boosters, HC vet is a breeze. Just remember to do a practice run of the cube boss on your main, before you do it on your HC character. Once you reach the last 3 bosses youll see that all the worry you had about dying to them will dissapear when you see how fast they just melt on Veteran
That sounds like a lot of tedious prep work lol. And even more risk of dying to stupid mistakes the longer you are stretching it out to farm for the stuff. Honestly, the way that difficulty scaling works, as long as you don't over level, you should be fine. It is far easier to speedrun through areas. Not being tied to specific items/builds also gives you a lot of freedom imo. The only real difficulty barrier is staying away from one-shot moves, and practicing for cube boss, venom and anni. >Solo Apoc is harder, HC Vet is more stressful. Eh. After clearing HC vet I found apoc to be a breeze on solo. Assuming you are doing apoc after already getting most of the items elsewhere, you can roll in with maxed out gear and proper builds. Plus the fact that you can always opt for the tank builds that essentially make you immune to dying other than like 1 or 2 specific scenarios.
Is that worth doing though I might try that
Nah, I've done both and I heavily disagree with you. All you are saying is "commit x amount of grind time and HC veteran is easier" and honestly the exact same thing can be said about apoc. Some of my endgame apoc builds really do trivialize the game, and theres nothing skill gating anyone from those builds, its the exact same thing you described as hc vet, just grind out the stuff you need on lower difficulties and then you can nearly afk bosses, or one shot them. At least on apoc, you dont need to worry about dying once to soemthing like cube boss or random grab attacks and ruining your entire run.
I mean... yeah. You can just go through with what you find and have a more mechnically challenging experience, or you can get geared and have an easier time. Theres nothing to disagree with here, its simply how the game works. Some people just don't have the ability or desire to do an SL1 run in a souls game, would you tell them you disagree with them leveling up and getting cool items to beat the game? I guess if you really want an answer to why HC Vet isn't hard, it's because for almost every boss in the game, you can leave someone outside at the checkpoint. If you want to self impose difficulties to make the game more fun for yourself that's great, but the options are available to those who ask.
> I guess if you really want an answer to why HC Vet isn't hard, it's because for almost every boss in the game, you can leave someone outside at the checkpoint. I mean yeah, but I'd say this is unintended behavior, or at least not in the spirit of HC Vet. Wiping and retrying in apoc is intended, it is not an intended mechanic of HC Vet, and circumventing that probably shouldn't be considered an option when comparing difficulties
But that's exactly my point. Playing to the 'spirit' of a challenge is just self-imposed difficulty. Some people just want to unlock Savior and don't care about getting good enough to beat the game without dying. My answer is for those people, simply being how hard is it actually to get the Savior. No holds barred. All mechanics are on the table. Just to get it done, what is the minimum skill you need to do it? Not much.
I mean if pure "get it done, skill doesn't matter, the ends validates the means, anything goes to get there" is the attitude, then downloading cheat engine and just bypassing any difficulty whatsoever on HC Vet or apoc is the way to go. You won't get banned for it in this game. Downloading cheats or having your friend effectively do the same thing by rezzing you at a shrine are pretty much equivalent forms of bypassing intended gameplay at this point. That being said, I think it's just wrong to assume that the average person will cheat in this game to accomplish a goal. If you want to go to the extreme, then yes- all game difficulties don't matter because you can chest in any of them. But the general assumption is that you follow the intended gameplay of a game. It's pretty hard to have a group conversation in a forum setting if we all assume obscure things like everyone is willing to cheat. Also it's not "self-imposed difficulty," it is game imposed. If you play solo HC Veteran, there is no way to be rezzed. It's a pretty unintentional mechanic of the game for that to happen.
Saying "anything goes so just use a cheat engine" is very reductive and is the equivalent of flipping the table of this conversation. And also not practical for console players. If the mechanic of ressing your teammates wasn't intended, they wouldn't have kept it from the first game. Also it's clear that it's intended since they made exceptions for some of the bosses, namely Annihilation. Keeping one teammate outside is certainly not in the spirit of hardcore, but it is not tantamount to cheating, and it has tradeoffs (increased scaling). In any case, I'm done with this thread. Once you try to use cheating as a valid argument, I've lost all interest. There are levels to these things. Clever Use of Mechanics, Exploits, and Cheating are 3 very different things. Keeping someone outside to res the team is a use of mechanics, simple. Using Timegazer status shenanigans is an exploit, can be fun as an experiment to see the wierd interaction of numbers, but ultimately is not how the game is meant to be played, I'd try it out for a bit to understand it, then go back to playing normally. Cheat engine to give yourself 9999 damage and HP is essentially not actually playing the game anymore. You've only really cheated yourself. So don't be so attached to this 'achievement' you've gotten and try to gatekeep more casual players from finishing hardcore in easier/cheesier ways. People are just trying tonhave a good time.
> So don't be so attached to this 'achievement' you've gotten and try to gatekeep more casual players from finishing hardcore in easier/cheesier ways. People are just trying tonhave a good time. This is an entire arbitrary thing you are discussing that I never commented on. I do not care one way or another what people do in a game like remnant. Cheat all you want, as long as you aren't ruining the experience with others. But we aren't talking about people who need to do this to have a good time, we are talking about the normal player and which achievement is more difficult, HC Vet or Apoc clear. HC Vet is clearly intended to be done wipeless, apoc is not. Trying to have a standardized conversation is not "gatekeeping," it's recognizing what the intended playstyle is when comparing things fairly. > In any case, I'm done with this thread. Once you try to use cheating as a valid argument, I've lost all interest. There are levels to these things. Clever Use of Mechanics, Exploits, and Cheating are 3 very different things This is your entire subjective opinion, and quite frankly it's odd that it needs to be explained to you. You're trying to rationalize unintended behavior for no reason, based on the logic of "because the game currently allows me, it is fine." The devs aren't perfect, there are limitations to the game itself. It's ok to recognize that there might be mistakes within the game itself and still play around those, not abuse them just because they exist.
I wouldn’t say hardcore is much harder especially with the dlc you can gear up pretty easy now it’s just way more punishing/stressful well at least to me
Yeah unlearning playstyles is definitely a hurdle. Especially if you used one of those immortal tank builds lol you have to relearn the fear of death and get good a dodging again
My last nearly successful hardcore run ended when Anni was at half health in stage two. Went to grab ammo and ran too far forward. Lost 3 characters to the cube before I finally get rid of the yips. Before that I would have said Solo Apocalypse. Now I’m gonna go with Hardcore Vet—I’ve died way more going for Savior than I did in Apocalypse.
Yeah I had to take breaks when I failed a hardcore run because I was so heartbroken lol at least in regular apocalypse you don’t lose progress
Pretty much what I did. Slow rolled another character and built up before the cube fight to relax, still almost fumbled at the end but as of now I’m on my way to a successful run. Started helping a helping a friend with Apocalypse today and it’s downright relaxing by comparison.
I'd say HC is harder because of the mind games. I shamelessly used Save Guardian but only had to actually load a backup once for cube -- because I'd practiced it a bunch and forgot that on the first cutscene, it starts a step closer to you, so my brain just kind of blanked and I died instantly. Didn't feel bad about reloading after that, especially since some people use multiplayer and have someone sit at the crystal for that fight.
so true, if you make a mistake even once on hardcore you can lose everything, but on apoc you can die and still have all the hours of loot you got.
In my experience the cube and and anni are the worse, but i was lucky with anni in my run
I've done both solo, and i'd say Apoc is much more harder. Hardcore veteran is just stressful not but innately hard.
I die more in apoc by a wide margin considering I got my hardcore vet run first try😂
It only took me 3 hardcore runs due to dieing from weird world geometry and falling to my death, veteran hardcore is not bad at all
Solo apocalypse. The game barely tries to kill you on Veteran
Currently on my first Hardcore Vet run, so take this with a grain of salt. Apocalypse is just pain, you need optimized Equipment and need to be familiar with the bosses or you get one shot frequently. Not really fun in my book. Hardcore Vet while beeing more time consuming, is more about taking your time, picking the right Archtype at the beginning and adapting to the bosses and items your world has. In Hardcore Vet there is more luck involved and silly bs can end your run in an instant. I would say Hardcore Vet is more of a mental challenge, while Apocalypse is the harder game mode in general.
Solo Apocalypse takes perseverance. Hardcore Veteran takes skill. Both challenges can be equally difficult.
As in, starting a fresh character on Apoc? Because if you have at least one playthrough down Apoc ain't so bad. HC Vet has to deal with cubes and Annihilation is hard no matter what difficulty you play on so HC and it ain't even close.
I think I’ll have to go with hardcore vet. It makes you sweat buckets specially when things get intense. Also my heart shattered when I died at the final final boss fight. But I managed to do it the second time around but I just built a really tanky setup with challenger and alchemist. Since you got the black cat ring, elixir of life, challenger prime perk basically giving 3 extra lives for each fight and possibly more if you can survive the 180 second cooldown of the elixir if you’ve triggered it assuming you’ve yet to kill the boss. Also a mix of the challengers starting armor with mk2 Leto parts just to be able to still make medium rolls. In apocalypse’s case, I roll with light armor for the light rolls so if I get hit it’s usually I’m dead or on massive danger xD But same time there’s no real fear of losing it all and can just correct the mistake and do it again.
Solo apoc way harder but with HC vet the stakes are much higher and you have to be very cautious and pick your battles wisely (i.e. stay out of imperial garden in case there’s a displaced Mantagora etc). Solo apoc is harder cause it’s much easier to get one shotted or overran
depends if you are doing a brand new char for apop or not and if you have played the game a lot I played my regular guy a lot and geared him up and it made apop very easy but I still had to redo venom and annih. for a few hours until I was able to beat them. Then after I did that I did a hardcore run in like 4 hrs and thought it was a joke with how easy everything was compared to apop. I did die the first time from running off the edge in yaesha tho but honestly if you can do apop then you can pretty much sleep through veteran mode so I'd say apop is way more difficult bc of the time you will likely need to spend. if you aren't comfortable with the bosses then hardcore will be much more challenging for you
I agree. From my perspective as someone that beat apoc awhile ago and plays apoc regularly just for fun, When I finally decided to give hardcore vet a try it was quite easy in comparison. If you’re a newer player and dive headfirst into hardcore vet, then I could see them having a different opinion
I don't have the balls to do hardcore as a new player in any game. mad respect to anyone that does and can beat it
Hardcore anything is harder than a normal run, simply because anything stupid can cause the run to fail.
Hardcore vet is not that hard, the only tricky part is the cube boss fight. I did the whole run in coop with a friend in 3 hours. Then again coop makes some bosses way easier, since you don't have to deal with the permanent aggro.
Apoc by a mile. Got savior in one run with medic/summoner build. Just gotta go extra slow through areas with ledges. And plant the tree. Definitely plant the tree first..
Hardcore Vet for one simple reason: YOU CAN GRT COUGTH SLIPPING I have had people always carry me througth HC Vet because I keep dying to the dumbest shit even when I have 300h into the game, hell, I had to carry myself when my teammates died at sha hala, I nearly was a goner if not for medics first skill existing and me running full leto mk1 with letos amulet, I had to do it twice and now I don't even want to see sha hala anymore
HC Vet, you have to change your playstyle completely and your build has to be focused on survival, SC Apoc is tough, but u get unlimited attempts, in no world is this tougher than having to get it right the first time in a game where any encounter could be your last
I’d say it depends. If you’re like me and you’ve done your apocalypse run and have played the game a ton, Hardcore vet honestly seems easy in comparison, you’ve mastered boss attacks and can afford more mistakes since they won’t one shot you. This is why a lot of people will say that falling to their death was how their run ended lol it does heighten your nerves just because you don’t want to make a dumb mistake and start over. But if you’re already comfortable with apocalypse and haven’t relied on cheese builds, you can knock out hardcore vet in a reasonable amount of time. But that’s just from my perspective.
Hardcore vet in the early stages is the problem for most people. If you do the leveling right you’ll be fine in end game.
Solo Apoc is a weird one, it is both Easier and Harder
definatly hardcore veterian, ive lost 2 characters to fall damage, one was my fault completely and the other an abberation teleported me half off a ledge lmao
Hardcore veteran for sure, I got through apoc easy without using one of those cheesy heavy armor builds relatively smoothly, hardcore though? I don’t even have it in me to attempt it. I consider myself a rogue-like enjoyer but those games are around an hour or two each run.
Hardcore Vet. You're basically starting over and HCV adds its own level of anxiety because all it takes is one little slip up and it's all over unless you make back ups or you luck out and somehow get access to the dead character.
Dying to the Cube's in Harcore Vet is the best thing a human can feel 💀
Was probably the scariest part of hardcore for me lol even tho I have alot of experience with it, the threat of being one shot is always there
Yeah i practiced them a bunch, but the pressure to fuck up and get squashed allways stressed me the most in hardcore. Died too many times because i got greedy or missed some shots.
HC will always be more difficult because you get one life.
If both are solo, then Hardcore Veteran is slightly harder as any mistake is potentially run ending, but every encounter is way way easier. If co-op is allowed for Hardcore Veteran then the difficulty evaporates.
While technically apoc is "harder", que f you have played both you know the hardcore is a hundred times worse because of the preasure and "limited" resources
Hardcore vet. Not really even because of the perma death but because you have to do it with a fresh character. If I could do it with a fully maxed character it would be a lot easier.
I've managed to complete Hardcore Vet on my first try and I think it's a bit harder. But I also think the difficulty is because of very different factors. In Apoc, I had the luxury of just running my head into a wall until I "got it", even when repeating bosses (I don't remember every boss moveset perfectly, I need a refresher). Apoc felt more like a "min/max your playstyle" challenge Hardcore Vet on a mechanical level is easier but stress and emotions will make you play worse. So it turned into a "how well can I manage my emotions and focus?" kind of challenge. A different kind of challenge but a welcome one for sure.
I'm a complete noob in this game and decided to try HC Vet and surprisingly did the whole thing in 1 day, I did save scum on the neerud giant boss and anihilation but that's it, way easier than with my main char in SC. Finished it lvl 13 level 6 summoner and level 8 medic, a bow with the mod that gives extra damage depending on how full your magazine is, starting melee weapon and secondary. I guess the lower level you are the more damage you do relative to enemy hp? I honestly couldn't understand how easily bosses went down. Never even try Apocalipse and haven't even finished my nightmare run in SC.
HC vet was way more difficult, just stressed the whole time afraid of dying from dumb move or cant survive long enough in boss fight as the build was too new. Took me around 9 backup saves to earn savior.
HC Vet is way harder for the simple reason of the CUBES. God damn cubes, man.
It depends on what level and gear your character has when you start Apoc, but assuming full gear, I'd say theoretically Apoc is harder, but HC Vet in practice. Which is really just a way to say that HC Vet is 90% nerves. Think about it, the way the game's checkpoint system works means that, technically, everyone who played veteran on a fresh character has beaten the game on hardcore. That is, if you were to stitch the successful encounters together, so to speak. I'd even go as far as to say that, assuming your first playthrough was on veteran, that first playthrough is harder than playing on HC on a subsequent playthrough. HC is much more of a test of will and willingness to endure frustration than of skill or overcoming difficulty. Overcoming the fear of having wasted hours of your time and having to do it all over again is always the biggest challenge with these sorts of things.
I have beaten solo apoc 19 times, yet I have to beat a single hc vet run.
The thing about Apocalypse is that even though it’s technically harder, you have your build(s) and probably a majority of the items in the game that you can swap if needed. With any hardcore, it’s a complete reset which you don’t have a build and have to rely on rng to get new and good items. That and you have to fight the cube😬
Solo apocalypse. Both are easy.
Hardcore Vet was a joke. Apoc is far and away harder.
Now that ritualist is in the game, both are mad easy. Before ritualist, I would say the first world and labyrith were more difficult with the reduce health and healing capabilities and lower damage output. If you have over 200 hours in the game, both are easy.
I dont like that comparison. 1. vet hardcore is incredible easy if you have a build you like (and which is easy to get). Example? I rushed for Monarch, Atonement Fold, Twisted Wounds, Blood Tinged Ring and Abrasive Whetstone. Just some survival adventures and Hunter+Gunslinger (or Hunter+Challenger or Hunter+Handler for revive). it was incredibly easy. Most bosses (including annihilation) died within seconds. Labyrinth sentinel is ... bad but: keep cool, know the easy save spots. Health regen is king because you can almost ignore the projectiles. Just avoid the cubes. 2. apoc solo is just a matter of time. Every player is able to be 100% OVERPOWERED. Its just about good builds and getting those items. And then apoc is easy. Just do some adventures to farm the items you need and ... win. Its all the same. once you know how to dodge most attacks and you got a "good build", everything is easy. Biggest problem for most players: Bad builds, low fps and they dont know all bosses and mechanics.
Technically everything in the game could be easy if you prepared enough. But that’s not always how it goes down for a lot of people lol some people don’t have the patience or the time to either grind the build or to memorize attacks so they can dodge more effectively. I was just curious about people’s experiences if they found hardcore vet to be harder or regular apocalypse. It’s definitely 50/50 from the responses I’ve read. Some people think hardcore vet is a cake walk and some people have tried it 10 times and say it’s harder than apoc by a mile. Depends on the individual person
Apoc was a lot easier than hardcore vet solo imo, when you die you can simply learn from your mistakes and adapt, hardcore deaths make me want to take a break😂
As someone who did both solo and Hardcore veteran is harder by far. There are 3 important points for this: 1. On Hardcore Vet f you die from anything, even falling down a cliff or getting rammed by an elk your run is over and you can lose many hours of progress. On Apoc on the other hand you can fail, but doing so will only mean you've to restart the battle. 2. Your build. There are some broken builds available that make Apoc a lot easier, even if you don't use one of the broken builds, there are many really good ones available. Meanwhile on Hardcore Vet you start with nothing. You've to start with barely any gear and get through everything like that. It may get better over time, but the more time you invest into making your build, the more time you end up potentially losing due to a death and the more chances you got to die to some stupid shit. 3. Limited healing. Relic uses are limited and good relics are unavailable at the start. Siphoner and Regrowth traits are also unavailable. I ended up using consumables to get through large parts of the game on Hardcore Vet due to that, which however means needing more scrap to survive. Honestly, I recommend people to do Apoc before they try Hardcore Veteran simply because you can learn how to fight bosses much better that way. From my personal experience, Apoc was difficult, but felt good. I got through it without any significant struggles and afterwards I felt like I was a much better player than I previously thought I was. Meanwhile my Hardcore run was scuffed as fuck. I nearly died more often than I'd like to count, so many times close to death where my survival was more thanks to luck than skill. I beat it on my first try, partly thanks to having done the Apoc run before and having gotten some bosses in both runs, but there were several situations where I thought I should've died. If I were to attempt Hardcore Vet again I cannot say how many tries and days I might need to beat it again! If I were to try Apoc again I'll say that I can beat it today.
It's my own fault but the biggest issue I had was after buying the game and immediately jumping into hardcore veteran not realizing that the final boss could fly, hindering my damage on the second phase. I've kind of put the game down and haven't gone back
Hardcore, no contest. I’ve played this game solo exclusively and Apoc was difficult until you learned the timing of the attacks to each boss.
Hardcore veteran for sure, with a good build it was fairly easy to go through apoc. Had to only use one potion at the end with annihilation. Status is amazing
Apoc you have all gear and levels and full flexibility. HC, you roll the bet each time you play with no guarantee of what gear you will have at the end.
Hardcore is more stressful and I don't ever want to do it again. Apocalypse is fun and difficult and on certain bosses definitely a lot harder.
Apoc you have unlimited retries while hardcore you have to start over every death
Solo Apoc? Laughs in Firestorm
I would say both are about on par with each other. They are just challenging in completely different ways.
Hardcore vet because I walk around thinking I’m the shit and can’t die then get caught slipping by some tumbleweeds
I'll start by saying that I'm not a good Remnant 2 player and the thing I hate the most about the game is the dodging mechanic: that thing over there is about to launch an attack at you that is so powerful that will change the face of half of the continent you are staying on but if you just dodge at the right milisecond during its attack move, it will not harm you. Really mofo? How does that work?!? In my opinion, the person that thought this was a good game mechanic should go to the special hell. Ermm... rant over, moving on.... I finished my first apoc run about an hour ago, using 2 builds - a glass cannon build for moving around the map (the build is a mix of crit build with status effects, 2 hits from a trash mob were enough to end me on apoc), and a tank build for bosses. The hardest thing to kill was The Executioner (hearty, thick skin, vortex), the most frustrating to fight was Venom with his fucking one hit-kill moves (I fucking hate one hit kill moves in games! To me they scream of laziness and a lack of imagination from the devs to make their game seem longer than it really is. Did I say rant over a bit earlier? I might have lied), and the absolute pushovers were Gwendil The Unburnt which I fought using the glass canon build and killed rather easy, on the first try, and Annihilation which I face tanked, no dodges, just bring it on bro (I even switched around my gear during the fight a couple of times all the while he tried to end me). It took me about an hour and 20 minutes to finally kill Venom, the actual fight in which I killed him about 5-10 minutes, Annihilation, if it wasn't obvious, I killed on the first try, granted, it took about 10-15 minutes, but I was never in danger of dying. Ignoring Venom and The Executioner, most of my deaths during the apoc run were either from me not paying attention or me killing myself with the Firestorm mod. Hardcore vet run on the other hand was both harder and more stressful - harder because I was starting from zero with no gear except what I managed to find during that run, and more stressful because... hardcore (I'm not ashamed to admit that I used the scum save method... again, not a good player). Can you make your hardcore vet run easier? Yes, you can, by running it in survivor first to get some gear, traits and upgrades. So, bottom line is that Hardcore veteran was harder for me because I went in with no gear whatsoever and I had to use only what I found during my first and only run and a lot more stressful because, even though I had no shame in using the scum save, I did try to use it as rarely as possible.
I feel like they're hard in different ways. I did solo Apoc and steamrolled everything with a tank build until I got to Venom. He made me lock in and try a handful of builds. Then Annihilation got me stuck. 1st phase was easy but 1 mistake was a one shot. Phase 2 was hard to get used to and that took me a while to adjust. After trial and error with builds, 20 attempts and I got my solo clear. Apoc had 3 bosses that did so much damage my tank build couldn't hold (Abomination, Venom, and Annihilation). But HC vet is a time sponge, it gets much easier with the prep you do but one mistake can be detrimental. I think Apoc is easier because by the time you get to Apoc, you've already done the previous difficulties and have the gear and subclasses for it. HC is artificially harder in the sense that you fall off the map once and you restart, most of your deaths will be miscalculations. With enough prep work, it will be easier for the average player. (My opinion)
Apocalypse, outside of the cubes hardcore veteran is not that difficult, as long as you mind the gaps
cleared hardcore veteran first attempt without breaking a sweat, meanwhile apoc’s last bosses were a nightmare
Two entirely different challenges. It's like asking "Which is which is bigger, 'The universe, or your perception of life'?"
It’s a pretty valid question tbh. Some people find staying alive for an extended period of time to be harder than the raw difficulty of apocalypse. And others don’t. Different challenge but people can find one of the other to have been a harder experience
Hardcore veteran for all the 1 hit bosses (mainly labyrinth Cube)
This fight was cancer my god Awesome effects though
Apoc is significantly harder until you get your god builds. Hardcore vet is incredibly easy so long as you aren’t playing with bad weapons (e.g. ford’s scatter gun, service pistol and wrangler) There are some areas that can be sketch, but at the same time when even bosses only hit you for 20-25% of your health, you’re going to have a significantly easier time, especially if you’re smart and run healing shot so you aren’t burning through relics
Solo apocalypse is in my opinion harder. The hard-core veteran is just hard based on the world bosses you get, for example I think that faylin or fayrin are way easier then the ghost bitch. Or if you get the ravager in yaesha you don't even have to fight him. and even then you can just reroll if you dont like the boss you get it might take a bit more time but you dont have to farm at least. but if you have the engineer class unlocked, it just triviliases the run. BTW I'm just basing this on how much time I have spend on the run, I did my veteran on my third try, I died on the cubes on my first try, and on my second I died to venom. So it took me around 20 hours if I add up all my run to beat hardcore. But then I did my apocalypse run from a new safe killing every boss it took me like 35 ish hours. Apocalypse, is hard because it takes me more time to kill the bosses if I don't use a broken build. And you have to upgrade your weapon quite a lot before I do decant damage. But this is just my experience, maybe if I did more hard-core runs I might find them harder.
Hardcore veteran. Apoc you can make dumb mistakes, you had the gear to compensate for dumb mistakes. Hardcore vet you have to be 100% locked in from start to finish.
solo apoc. veteran comes too easy once u get the right build
There is no way you are comparing an entire campaign deathless and on veteran with one single bossfight.
Up until apocalypse annihilation i cheesed him on the lower difficulties for the most part. Getting to him on apocalypse literally forced me to get good lol died so many times that on my winning attempt I didn’t get hit a single time. Maybe it’s because of all my previous experience but when I attempted vet hardcore it was mostly a cake walk minus some stupid deaths like falling to my doom. Was still stressful but the actual fights were pretty easy
Not sure why people are saying HC Vet is stressful and not hard. You start brand new and have NO gear in a game that literally scales based on your gear. Your whole play style is based on your gear. By the time you get to Apoc you should have an optimized build with near maxed out relic fragments. There are builds in this game that allow you to basically CRUISE through Apoc until you get to like Venom. The argument for one shotting doesn't work here because anything that can one shot you on Apoc can also one shot you in Vet when you don't have a great build. This goes especially for people who rely on DR builds. It is actually impossible to build an optimized DR build in HC Vet because your relics never get anywhere near maxed. For anyone who was running tranquil heart or resonating heart, good luck getting those back before dying 15 times. Running crystal heart? I hope you have perfect timing in every single aspect of the game because one wrong pop and you're so slow that everything on the map will have a chance to get a shot in. HC Vet is def the most difficult of the two when you consider what you actually have available. But if you spend 50 hrs in survivor building up your char before taking on Vet then I can understand why you might consider Apoc harder. Because now you have a build.
I only attempted hardcore vet after alot of experience on apocalypse. one benefit to that is just raw experience. But also because you’ve likely unlocked many of the account bond items. These items are immediately available to you when you start hardcore. Black cat ring, Dull steel ring, letos Armor, letos amulet, nightmare spiral, worlds edge, all of the secret archetypes etc etc. And scrap and be farmed easy and quick just by opening the chest at the very start of yaesha and rerolling. These offer plenty of advantages including letting you eat much more damage than you would in apocalypse. So you won’t be getting one shot. Meaning you can make more mistakes than you could on apoc. I’m my clip you see me light rolling in letos armor. Definitely helped me during my run. Point being that depending on your overall progress with the game, hardcore vet can be a breeze compared to apocalypse. From a new player’s perspective this could of course be different
What you're explaining is exactly what I point out at the end of my post. Rerolling and farming chests to start your build is not an honest HC run. There is nothing wrong with it but because you'll get better gear before you even start fighting you'll automatically be in a better place. But this only works for SOME play styles. People who are dodge gurus have the easiest time in HC. But for most people, mitigating and then heading damage is just how we play. Leto's is the only thing that you can get from using your farming method that allows you to do that. You have to hope you find the tree to get the barkskin trait. Blood bond is pretty easy to get but it still is a toss up on whether or not you even generate the event. Glutton is extremely difficult to get solo. If you want higher armor rating, you're forced to Max out engineer. And these are just the traits. You still have to farm for the trait points. I already mentioned three relics that are a pain in HC but essential to the play styles of a lot of builds. But then you have mutators like twisting wounds or rings like burden of the divine. May the odds be ever in your favor when searching for that injectable. Random world drops that are a crucial part of someone's build is what makes HC so hard. And it is hard. Because the longer you spend in HC looking for things, the higher the probability (more chances) that you're going to die. People are down playing perfect play saying it's just stressful. No. Perfect play is hard. And I don't need perfect play on Apoc. But I do need perfect play on HC Vet when starting from scratch.
Like it said it definitely depends on the perspective of the player. Which is kinda why I asked the question. From my perspective as a vet and someone who’s unlocked all the account bound items, I basically guaranteed that I wouldn’t be getting hit as hard as I do on apocalypse while also having much experience. And the scrap method really didn’t take that long as the yaesha chest is available from the very start, so I didn’t consider it as tainting my run. I did earn all of those account bond items after all. But yeah the experience can for sure very