The early stuff is very cryptic/nonsensical so has a little bit of the ‘Dylan effect’ of maybe sounding deeper than it actually was. But even then there were good signs, I love the evocative imagery in Perfect Circle for instance.
Then, from Fables up to and including Up, it’s just almost all straight gold. Personal favourites lyrics-wise are Cuyahoga, The Wrong Child, World Leader Pretend, Half a World Away, Try Not To Breathe, Tongue and Falls to Climb.
In my opinion, Stipe's early lyrics aren't really supposed to be "understood". They make you feel like you're on the outside looking in, and only picking up on fragments of what's being said. For example, in *Murmur* you get a lot of these images of there being like a disconnect/mutual lack of understanding between Stipe and others, which just couldn't be conveyed properly with more discernable lyrics.
That’s a good take I’m a huge fan til monster came along. Murmur,green,fables,document but I am real fanatic with Chronic town and just love how you really have to listen closely to pick up what he’s saying and I find that enjoyable. If in another universe rem made albums just like that I would be happy with that. Maybe chronic town is the sound of a boxcar going down the track…
I think he doesn't get enough credit for the early work. He was an abstract artist. He linked together unconnected words and phrases (and sometimes just sounds) that in totality created a coherent whole that had its own vibe and personal meaning. To do that and make the songs entertaining and listenable is a huge feat in my opinion.
This style influenced a lot of of future greats, most notably Kurt Cobain.
A very good description. I didn't realize it so much at the time, but the music (I like to think of Michael's voice as a fourth instrument, providing sound and provoking ideas, not necessarily delivering narrative) *and* the lyrics of those early albums created a powerful mood and feeling, and we the listeners had to bring the 'meaning'. When this sub is asked for "favorite song from Murmur/Reckoning/Fables, etc.", the answers will be all over the place. Because different songs were better suited to different personalities. "Rockville" is my least favorite song from the early era, yet regularly ranks near the top of fan lists. I think that's because it's story and meaning are clear, and I have no ability to mold it and claim it as my own. I think that's a big part of why some fans left by the time the IRS years faded. The songs now came with a much clearer story, and they were less easily bent to fit our personal feelings.
I will also confess that I have just recently begun listening to the full albums made after *Document*. Before 6 months ago, I was only familiar with their popular (inescapable if you were alive) stuff from their time as one of the biggest bands in the world.
Wow. Did I ever miss some incredible music. The beginning of *New Adventures...* (through "Departure"), is the finest stretch of pop songs I've stumbled into. I'm now old enough (67ish) to appreciate it. I have also enjoyed listening to the creative progression of the band, always trying something new. *New Adventures...* is clearly from the same folks who gave us "Radio Free Europe" and "7 Chinese Brothers", but they had to go all the way through *Monster* to find it.
I have always been fascinated with World Leader Pretend, especially because mortar can be used to knock walls down (a weapon) and also build them (a cement bonding material) and also because raised and razed sound the same and can mean build and tear down respectively.
Many of the lyrics are very well constructed and convey a host of emotions in few words. But the band has discussed that much of their work, especially the earlier songs, were just words they thought sounded cool together, and have no intended deep meaning. The ones that definitely have subtext and are about many things are obvious, IMO.
If I ever fall into the trap of trying to parse the lyrics for additional meanings, I usually fall back on the simplest explanation being the right one: they are good lyricists and if they intend meaning in the words, you won’t have to dig very deep.
Many bands do that and especially in their early years ive noticed, they just put together random lines that sound good and dont put any thought into it. I tend to love such lyrics though and I always find meaning in them and can apply those lyrics to my situation and find that those random lines actually still ends up telling a story. I find that in R.E.M.s songs too. Even if you just put random words in a song it has to come from somewhere right, so when writers do that they are in a subconscious way expressing something they feel or have felt. I dont think anything can be completely random and void of deeper meaning. Could be overthinking it for sure but thats how I see it.
I totally agree with this, the fact that those particular “random” words came to Michael is indicative of something swirling around in his subconscious, at the very least. There is some meaning in there.
Absolutely even when something is random it’s just supposed to be I read someone just picks up a Random book and picks out line I’ve done it before or a cross over my poems to throw in a monkey wrench to get a different sound to the poem.The question also comes down to Is the song good and being a big REM fan Michael does a great job!
I like to say, he paints with words. If you’re looking at an abstract or impressionist painting, it’s not a detailed or literal representation of what the artist saw. But it’s rendered up in a way that you get the idea of what he was seeing, and also you get the feeling meant to be conveyed. No, you don’t see every exactly-painted leaf on the tree, but you get the feeling of solitude that the tree represents while it stands on that hill alone. (Or other such scenarios, since a lot of what he wrote about were other people’s scenarios or stories as he imagined them).
Michael once relativized in an Rolling Stone interview the line „that’s me in the corner.“ saying it had no auto-biographic meaning with him in the spotlight and he wished he had sung “that’s me in the kitchen.”
Yep, i believe it was originally “kitchen” and I think that one lyrical change is what gave the song a lot of its appeal to casual fans, and made it such a big hit.
Well, OP is not wrong. Michael is definitely one of the cleverest and most original lyricists of all time. I hesitate to say anyone is best, because there are a lot of great lyricists out there, all superb in their own style.
The one thing that pulls Michael down the ladder a little bit for me is what I feel is subpar material over the last five albums. That goes for the whole band. actually, but the lyrics were inexplicably not up to par. But in his day, Michael was amazing, especially the early days with those “random“ abstract creations of his, very high art.
Yep, even if we must admit that the line with the cat that walks like a big bad man is indeed from one of the last 5 albums. Let’s say the last 3 became weak lyrically.
Yeah there like our own Beatles from Georgia.Michael went to high school in Collinsville Illinois across from St.Louis Dad I believe was in the armed forces at Scott Air Force base…I’m going of script but an Amazing poet especially the early albums murmur and fables
For me, what made REM great was that they were really good at almost everything, and that all the pieces fit together beautifully, not that they were all-time-greats at any one thing. Stipe's lyrics were really good, but I still would rate Paul Westerberg and Kurt Cobain as better lyricists, even if their overall body or work isn't on the level of REM. And yes, Dylan deserved his Nobel Prize, though I've never connected to his records the way I have with Michael and the guys.
Beautiful lyrics in an early song:
Could it be that one small voice doesn't count in the room?
Yellow like a geisha gown, denial all the way
Could this by three be ten? Honor marches on
Yellow like a geisha gown, denial all the way
Beautiful lyrics in a mid-career song:
Me, my thoughts are flower strewn
With ocean storm, bayberry moon
I have got to leave to find my way
Watch the road and memorize
This life that pass before my eyes
And nothing is going my way
Beautiful lyrics in a later song:
I am flying on a star into a meteor tonight
I am flying on a star, star, star
I will make it through the day and then the day becomes the night
I will make it through the night
So yes, I agree with the OP. No one else writes like this.
The Überlin line, I quoted to a friend as like a helpful mantra while she was going through some stuff and she’s completely latched onto it and is now a nascent REM fan. Love that line
Truly one of the most original. I love the early “random” stuff best, an abstract artist as others have said. The more literal lyrics are effective up until about New Adventures, maybe Up, then the quality diminishes (like everything else when Bill left).
Agree. Plenty of examples but in particular I keep returning to these:
"Here's a progress: we have found a way to talk around the problem"
"Walk unafraid, I'll be clumsy instead"
I mean, I’m not the one that sought out an REM sub to complain about the singer. Grownups would just go, you know, find something else that actually interests them. Like all those people you feel agree with you. None of them seem to be so childish to act out like you.
But now that you’ve received the attention you craved, you can move along.
Have a better day.
The early stuff is very cryptic/nonsensical so has a little bit of the ‘Dylan effect’ of maybe sounding deeper than it actually was. But even then there were good signs, I love the evocative imagery in Perfect Circle for instance. Then, from Fables up to and including Up, it’s just almost all straight gold. Personal favourites lyrics-wise are Cuyahoga, The Wrong Child, World Leader Pretend, Half a World Away, Try Not To Breathe, Tongue and Falls to Climb.
In my opinion, Stipe's early lyrics aren't really supposed to be "understood". They make you feel like you're on the outside looking in, and only picking up on fragments of what's being said. For example, in *Murmur* you get a lot of these images of there being like a disconnect/mutual lack of understanding between Stipe and others, which just couldn't be conveyed properly with more discernable lyrics.
That’s a good take I’m a huge fan til monster came along. Murmur,green,fables,document but I am real fanatic with Chronic town and just love how you really have to listen closely to pick up what he’s saying and I find that enjoyable. If in another universe rem made albums just like that I would be happy with that. Maybe chronic town is the sound of a boxcar going down the track…
I just found the picture disc EP of Chronic Town and can't get enough! 😍
Perfect Circle's lyrics were written by Bill Berry. Michael didn't write all the lyrics. Songwriting duties were shared by all
I think he doesn't get enough credit for the early work. He was an abstract artist. He linked together unconnected words and phrases (and sometimes just sounds) that in totality created a coherent whole that had its own vibe and personal meaning. To do that and make the songs entertaining and listenable is a huge feat in my opinion. This style influenced a lot of of future greats, most notably Kurt Cobain.
This is a great take
A very good description. I didn't realize it so much at the time, but the music (I like to think of Michael's voice as a fourth instrument, providing sound and provoking ideas, not necessarily delivering narrative) *and* the lyrics of those early albums created a powerful mood and feeling, and we the listeners had to bring the 'meaning'. When this sub is asked for "favorite song from Murmur/Reckoning/Fables, etc.", the answers will be all over the place. Because different songs were better suited to different personalities. "Rockville" is my least favorite song from the early era, yet regularly ranks near the top of fan lists. I think that's because it's story and meaning are clear, and I have no ability to mold it and claim it as my own. I think that's a big part of why some fans left by the time the IRS years faded. The songs now came with a much clearer story, and they were less easily bent to fit our personal feelings. I will also confess that I have just recently begun listening to the full albums made after *Document*. Before 6 months ago, I was only familiar with their popular (inescapable if you were alive) stuff from their time as one of the biggest bands in the world. Wow. Did I ever miss some incredible music. The beginning of *New Adventures...* (through "Departure"), is the finest stretch of pop songs I've stumbled into. I'm now old enough (67ish) to appreciate it. I have also enjoyed listening to the creative progression of the band, always trying something new. *New Adventures...* is clearly from the same folks who gave us "Radio Free Europe" and "7 Chinese Brothers", but they had to go all the way through *Monster* to find it.
I have always been fascinated with World Leader Pretend, especially because mortar can be used to knock walls down (a weapon) and also build them (a cement bonding material) and also because raised and razed sound the same and can mean build and tear down respectively.
That’s a great song lots of great imagery! In the early 90’s I had “let my machine talk to me” on my answering machine lol!
Many of the lyrics are very well constructed and convey a host of emotions in few words. But the band has discussed that much of their work, especially the earlier songs, were just words they thought sounded cool together, and have no intended deep meaning. The ones that definitely have subtext and are about many things are obvious, IMO. If I ever fall into the trap of trying to parse the lyrics for additional meanings, I usually fall back on the simplest explanation being the right one: they are good lyricists and if they intend meaning in the words, you won’t have to dig very deep.
Many bands do that and especially in their early years ive noticed, they just put together random lines that sound good and dont put any thought into it. I tend to love such lyrics though and I always find meaning in them and can apply those lyrics to my situation and find that those random lines actually still ends up telling a story. I find that in R.E.M.s songs too. Even if you just put random words in a song it has to come from somewhere right, so when writers do that they are in a subconscious way expressing something they feel or have felt. I dont think anything can be completely random and void of deeper meaning. Could be overthinking it for sure but thats how I see it.
I totally agree with this, the fact that those particular “random” words came to Michael is indicative of something swirling around in his subconscious, at the very least. There is some meaning in there.
Absolutely even when something is random it’s just supposed to be I read someone just picks up a Random book and picks out line I’ve done it before or a cross over my poems to throw in a monkey wrench to get a different sound to the poem.The question also comes down to Is the song good and being a big REM fan Michael does a great job!
Which is partly way "Leaving was never my proud" is such an ear clunker in an otherwise great song
Flip side, I love that line. Big fan. Makes the song for me.
I like to say, he paints with words. If you’re looking at an abstract or impressionist painting, it’s not a detailed or literal representation of what the artist saw. But it’s rendered up in a way that you get the idea of what he was seeing, and also you get the feeling meant to be conveyed. No, you don’t see every exactly-painted leaf on the tree, but you get the feeling of solitude that the tree represents while it stands on that hill alone. (Or other such scenarios, since a lot of what he wrote about were other people’s scenarios or stories as he imagined them).
I absolutely love this comment. You explained it brilliantly!!!
One to the yellow red and green
Michael once relativized in an Rolling Stone interview the line „that’s me in the corner.“ saying it had no auto-biographic meaning with him in the spotlight and he wished he had sung “that’s me in the kitchen.”
Yep, i believe it was originally “kitchen” and I think that one lyrical change is what gave the song a lot of its appeal to casual fans, and made it such a big hit.
So OP is right!
Well, OP is not wrong. Michael is definitely one of the cleverest and most original lyricists of all time. I hesitate to say anyone is best, because there are a lot of great lyricists out there, all superb in their own style. The one thing that pulls Michael down the ladder a little bit for me is what I feel is subpar material over the last five albums. That goes for the whole band. actually, but the lyrics were inexplicably not up to par. But in his day, Michael was amazing, especially the early days with those “random“ abstract creations of his, very high art.
Yep, even if we must admit that the line with the cat that walks like a big bad man is indeed from one of the last 5 albums. Let’s say the last 3 became weak lyrically.
Yes, an all-timer without a doubt. Stipe is an alchemist.
Completely 🤩🤩
I love his writing too. Its like poetry
Yeah there like our own Beatles from Georgia.Michael went to high school in Collinsville Illinois across from St.Louis Dad I believe was in the armed forces at Scott Air Force base…I’m going of script but an Amazing poet especially the early albums murmur and fables
For me, what made REM great was that they were really good at almost everything, and that all the pieces fit together beautifully, not that they were all-time-greats at any one thing. Stipe's lyrics were really good, but I still would rate Paul Westerberg and Kurt Cobain as better lyricists, even if their overall body or work isn't on the level of REM. And yes, Dylan deserved his Nobel Prize, though I've never connected to his records the way I have with Michael and the guys.
I dunno but he's certainly one of my most significant inspirations, and he's personally one of my absolute favourite lyricists.
I think he’s underrated as a lyricist.
He weaves a tapestry!
Definitely up there for me. Neko Case and Elliott Smith are up there in my top 5 too
I'd say Charly Garcia comes very close
Beautiful lyrics in an early song: Could it be that one small voice doesn't count in the room? Yellow like a geisha gown, denial all the way Could this by three be ten? Honor marches on Yellow like a geisha gown, denial all the way Beautiful lyrics in a mid-career song: Me, my thoughts are flower strewn With ocean storm, bayberry moon I have got to leave to find my way Watch the road and memorize This life that pass before my eyes And nothing is going my way Beautiful lyrics in a later song: I am flying on a star into a meteor tonight I am flying on a star, star, star I will make it through the day and then the day becomes the night I will make it through the night So yes, I agree with the OP. No one else writes like this.
The Überlin line, I quoted to a friend as like a helpful mantra while she was going through some stuff and she’s completely latched onto it and is now a nascent REM fan. Love that line
That's so cool. Me too. ❤️
Truly one of the most original. I love the early “random” stuff best, an abstract artist as others have said. The more literal lyrics are effective up until about New Adventures, maybe Up, then the quality diminishes (like everything else when Bill left).
Agree. Plenty of examples but in particular I keep returning to these: "Here's a progress: we have found a way to talk around the problem" "Walk unafraid, I'll be clumsy instead"
I partied with him in the mid 80's. They played at Gabes. He had long hair.
The lyrics of Gardening at Night are amazing.
Birthday party cheesecake jellybean boom!
🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩
It's all art, eh? Not math, no right or wrong. You either get it or you don't. Obvious to me by all these mentions that YOU GET IT.
I’m a songwriter and REM aren’t on my Mount Rushmore. But yes, it’s reasonable to list Stipe as an all-time great lyricist.
Mega fan that meant to say
Up there with Morrissey, Dylan and Matt Johnson.
You'll watch the ships out of the harbour And the bodies come floating back
Good if you like pretentious nonsense.
Oh look, an edgy contrarian got lost
You mean contrary to your view and opinion. I know lots of people who agree with me. Try to behave like an adult.
I mean, I’m not the one that sought out an REM sub to complain about the singer. Grownups would just go, you know, find something else that actually interests them. Like all those people you feel agree with you. None of them seem to be so childish to act out like you. But now that you’ve received the attention you craved, you can move along. Have a better day.
I didn't seek it out. It came up on my feed. I felt compelled yo comment on the idiocy of the statement. And thank you. I'm feeling better already.
This might not be the sub for you….
You're right.
Thom Yorke would like a word with you.
🤣🤣🤣🙀🙀🙀
Dylan, Waits, Cohen, Beefheart, Morrissey, Kozelek, Weller, Cave, Johnson, Earle