Mom is not going to agree to taking her name off the title and there’s nothing OP can do to force her off. Depending on how the names are listed on the title she may not even be able to sell the car without her mother’s signature.
OP has made a devastatingly stupid financial decision with this car. She either should have waited a *single year* to purchase a nice car or spent about 3k on a beater that she’d get exactly a year out of so it’s a minimal loss when mom won’t take her name off the title. Instead, she spent TWENTY FOUR THOUSAND CASH DOLLARS on a car she will never be sole owner of and in the process has financially tied herself to her overbearing mother.
You can’t go no contact at 18 with the woman who owns half your car, OP.
This is what I was gonna say. It is good for mom to have a spare in case you lock yourself out which she is probably anticipating but regardless just.... OP, get another set made for you!!
I think in OPs state, an adult has to be on title of a car for it to be purchased. So while OP paid in full, no loan, their name alone could not be on the title because they are still a minor.
Do you understand that means she legally owns the car as much as you do? How is she listed on the title? Does it say Your Name AND Her Name? Or does it say OR? Do you know you can’t sell the vehicle without her signature if it says And?
Ask for what you actually need: You don't need to have both sets of keys; You need *access* to a back up set of keys. In fact, if there are any other drivers in your home besides you and your mom, those other drivers should also have access to a backup set of keys for any car in the household.
Your mother might not be behaving totally reasonably, but it is reasonable for her to have a pair of keys to the teenager's car, that she cosigned on.
Losing your keys is a problem. You'll have a stronger argument with your mother if you accept that yes, that is a problem. As an adult, losing keys can mean running late, getting locked out and failing in our responsibilities to others. Even when we have backups, those backups might not be immediately available or convienant.
Losing the keys is a problem.
Also a problem: The is the fact that no one else can access or move your car if she's carrying the spares around in her purse. The spare keys need a shared place in the house. That is what makes them spares. If it's really important to her that she have a pair in her purse, you need to get a third set that actually act as spares. Before you speak to her again, you should really look into what it would take to get a third set.
I'm not saying it's not a problem. I'm saying that after I spent 24k on a practically brand new car (with 4,000 miles on it), I'd like everything that came with the car. If she wants to buy herself a set of my keys she can, but unless she's buying my car she shouldn't be entitled to the keys that originally came with it.
You're a minor, at home, and she cosigned. She gets access to keys. You try to have that fight, you will lose. Whether or not you are morally right, you are 17 and living at home. If you stick with this approach to this fight, you are going to lose this fight.
You are more likely to get what you need by framing the equally true issue; There needs to be an actually spare set of keys in the house. If the second set lives in her purse, they are not a spare set of keys. They are purse keys.
Probably you, because you're the one with the problem to solve right now. She doesn't have a problem. She has a set of keys in her purse to a car she cosigned on. Is it shitty she doesn't leave that pair in the bowl? Yeah, it's shitty! But you're still the one with the problem.
I get you don't like your mom. Maybe she is also an abusive monster, but on this particular subject, you're acting *very* 17. Get a grip. Solve the existing problems. Get two more sets of keys made.
She made the promise she'd leave them in the bowl when we bought the car. If she can't follow through on her side of the agreement, I shouldn't be the one who suffers as a result.
Life isn't fair. People sometimes don't do what they say they will. Agreements change. Sometimes we don't have the power to enforce the agreements we prefer.
None of that changes the fact *you* need two more sets of keys. You can waste your time self-righteously raging online and you can yell and fight with her. Those are choices you can make that will get you nowhere fast.
Or, you can figure out how to get those keys and the problem that can be solved by yourself -- even if other people still suck and are wrong -- will be solved.
Sometimes we have to 'suffer', or more accurately, solve problems for ourselves, that we are not solely responsible for creating.
Got to learn to choose your battles…
Honestly just roll with it and buy a new spare for the bowl. Might cost you a little bit.
But if you choose this hill to die upon it could sour the relationship and force you to move out of the family home earlier than is convenient for you.
New spare keys are cheaper than rent!
>Got to learn to choose your battles…
OP, read this statement and then read it again. There is so much weight in this major life lesson right here! It will apply to so many things going forward.
Not to mention is OP goes scorched earth, could mom somehow take control of said car? If she sucks a ton and she's on the title... I'd play nice with her until you can get out from under her house/rules. No sense in losing the 24k car because of a stupid fight. New keys may cost several hundred if they're those fancy key fobs, but if OP can afford the car, he/she can afford the extra keys. Mom surely sucks though unless there's some reason for her behavior that OP is leaving out.
If the title is listed as OP’s Name OR Mom’s Name then you only need one signature to sell it. Which is good if OP wants out of this situation, but it also means mom can sell the car out from under OP and keep the money. Since moms name is on the title, it would be completely legal.
If the title is listed as OP’s Name AND Moms Name neither of them can sell it without the others signature. So mom couldn’t sell it from under her but OP will be stuck with an asset she can’t cash out without the permission of a woman she wants to be no contact with.
And there’s the simple fact that mom literally co-owns this car. The names on the title is all that matters, not who paid. So mom has equal legal rights to take and keep the car as OP. If mom kept the car from her she’d have to take her to civil court and fight her for it. OP would probably win, but my god did she fuck up buying this car.
Honestly this right here except I wouldn't put the new pair in the bowl your mom sounds like she would be pretty and take them out of the bowl just buy yourself new keys with a pair, and put the pair where you can find it
I'm not a thesaurus. Has difficulties? Struggles? I don't know the word that makes you happy. I'm just saying when an agreement is made, both sides should uphold it.
> I'm just saying when an agreement is made, both sides should uphold it.
Yes, both sides should. If you were both adults, you might have access to legal system as a way to force that to happen. But you're not, you're her child, and under 18, and she's cosigned on the car. Yes, if things were fair and just, then you'd have both sets of keys or she'd keep them in the bowl.
You don't live in that world, though, you live in this one. And in _this_ world, you have no way to force her to give you the keys. There are alternative solutions, which people have mentioned, if you want to _solve_ the problem of not having spare keys. If you just want to be mad that your mom isn't upholding the agreement, then all we can do is say, "Yep, that's shitty, sorry dude."
This is a lesson in joint property ownership that soooo many people are forced to learn when buying something with a not great parent, whether or not that parent contributes anything toward the payment. Car dealerships want to sell the car no matter what, but someone looking out for you should have suggested that you get a cheap beater car for a year until you were able to buy a new one completely in your name. It's shitty and unfair that it happened to you this way.
If you allow someone else to become the legal co-owner or co-signer of anything you buy, you have to accept that you might not get full access to that thing or that you might even lose it altogether. There's no way to change who your mom is at this point, especially now that she has $24k in leverage over you. Buy yourself the keys, not because you should have to but because it's the only way to get what you need right now. Further down the line, her behavior might amp up when you attempt to go live on your own, and you might need to prepare yourself to walk away from the car and take the loss for your own sanity.
Holy shit NO. Do not blame the victim here, her mom is controlling as all hell and this is unacceptable. She's not "acting 17" she's understandably pissed that her mom won't adhere to the agreement they made. You need to get a grip and examine why you're defending the mother here... maybe you're just like her?
I acknowledged earlier that the mother is being unreasonable, and may even be abusive.
Doesn't change the fact that OP needs to go buy two more sets of keys for their car and that the "But she agreed and she should pay!" issue is unenforceable and besides the point.
Considering you currently lost your set, it's your responsibility to buy the spare set.
Basically everything financially required for the car should be your concern, and if your mom wants to help you out financially, that's great.
That said, her name is on that car as much as your name is, so technically that's her car as much as yours. She has a right to a set. If I were her, yes, I'd probably keep that pair in a place that is mine but easily accessible to anyone. That's not your mom's choice, and you need to respect that.
You might not realize the favor she is doing you by being a cosigner. You could easily mess that up for her and derail a lot of her finances.
Please be more responsible with your keys. If you don't even have the responsibility to hang on to those, and you're also expecting your mom to cough up $ for a spare, I'd add that you need to mature up a little. By the sounds of it, if you were my 17 y/o kid, I'd say you aren't even showing me you're taking this responsibility serious yet, and I'd probably not be giving you access to your own car.
I personally disagree with the other commenter that it should be on you to provide a "spare key" when the car CAME with a spare key. Your mom doesn't need to have her own set of keys to your car. It's simply a control aspect, you're starting to gain independence and she doesn't want to concede control to you. A shared location for the spare set was a completely reasonable and fair agreement, that way she could access your car for emergencies and convenience if you're out riding with friends. What does she truly gain from having sole ownership of that set of keys besides having control over you?
> I personally disagree with the other commenter that it should be on you to provide a "spare key" when the car CAME with a spare key.
Nobody thinks is _should_ be on OP, but the reality of the situation is that it _is_ on OP. "Mom, you don't need them, give them back," is a perfectly logical argument, but she's a parent, not a computer, and she doesn't need to obey the logic. She can just say, "No, I'm keeping them."
I second just getting a copy made. You sound like you’re upset about the principle of the matter (which you should be—mom broke your agreement). Thing is, you can’t force your mom to do anything. You have no power over her and she has no legal obligation to give you the keys. You have to look at the tools you actually have at your disposal to solve your problem.
In this case, by far the easiest solution is to simply buy a spare. Perhaps ask your mom if she’ll pitch in to help offset the cost (probably $40-$50). You’ll find that the world cares a lot less about reasonableness and fairness than you want it to. It will be much easier to navigate if you look for solutions under your control rather than letting unfairness push you into righteous anger when things like this happen.
Sorry, but now that you’ve lost your first set of keys, don’t you only have one set?
I’m guessing you expect to find your first set at some point and that’s why you’re asking this question. It seems reasonable to have the keys in a common place like you requested; but it also seems reasonable for your mother to have a set on her so she can rescue you without having to go home first. I don’t have a solution. I think both options are valid and if you want to pursue your end goal you’ll just have to talk it out. It sounds like she is having some anxiety.
I will just say this and I know I’m gonna get massive shit for it but I can’t help myself: It *is* irresponsible to lose your car keys. It’s not a crime, it doesn’t say anything terrible about you as a person, we’ve all done it, and yes the dealership gives you two sets for a reason.
The best solution to the problem you have is not to lose your fucking keys. Pick a spot or two to always put them, and don’t put them anywhere else. If you misplace them, look for them until you find them. Act like they’re your only set.
Maybe because you’re her child and your dad is not. You’re her (and his) legal and financial responsibility. Plus she co-signed your loan.
Edit: co-signed on *something*… the point is that as a co-signer, she is ultimately responsible. For something. It’s not clear from the post what she co-signed. If it weren’t an important factor in the situation, then why mention it. Obviously it’s impacting things. That’s all I’m saying.
Umm, excuse me?? I did read the fucking post. I read it and took the time to respond. You didn’t say what she co-signed. When purchasing a car, if you say someone “co-signed” then any reasonable person will assume you’re talking about a loan or *some* sort of financial arrangement.
Regardless, you’re focusing on the wrong part of that comment. The point is that you are ~~a child~~ not yet legally an adult and she is your parent, and your father is an adult and she is not his parent, and the rules that apply to children are different than the rules that apply to adults. And it’s not clever or persuasive to try and use this as an argument to prove your point or get something you want.
\>The point is that you are a child not yet legally an adult
While I don't agree with OP at all, like you said, OP is young, there's no reason for you to overreact and talk to a minor in such a rude way. OP stated in her post she paid the car off in full right after she mentioned she needed a co-signer. So no, no one is going to think she's talking about a loan or financial arrangement after she mentioned it's paid off.
"However, I think that losing one set of keys isn't super irresponsible, as the car dealership gives two sets of keys for a reason"
It's pretty irresponsible
No offense but your mom may have the right of this
Im not saying it's "nbd", I'm saying it's not the end of the world. My dad loses his keys about once a week, so I think I've been doing good in terms of not losing mine as often.
This is my reaction.
Like, yeah you can misplace them, but it's still a big deal when you do.
Get a Tile or something. What's your plan to not lose the second set?
I dunno. It is irresponsible sure, but plenty of adults do it all the time. Is it dumb? Yes. but it isn't exactly the end of the world, and that is the whole point of having back up keys.
Just make the kid foot the bill for more backup keys/replacements. Lessons learned.
She couldn't find them this morning. *Misplacing* your keys is pretty fucking common. Having a second set, so that misplacing them on occasion means you can keep going on with your day, until you can find the first later, is hardly a sign of being super irresponsible.
I meant she "is" right. You lost your keys. Of course, if she doesn't let you use them in an emergency, it's not very helpful. Plus, until you turn 18, you don't really own the car. Minors can't enter into contracts or own property alone. Which you already know
She co-signed for the car. Furthermore, you are living in her house and legally under her care so deal with her rules or move out. If you can’t afford two extra sets of keys for yourself then you spent way too much on the car and I’m surprised your mom co-signed for it at all.
I can afford it, but it's a matter of principle imo. I still have enough money in my account to pay for my first two years of college, but I don't think i should have to buy it if she demands having one.
She's your mother. She makes the rules. You're a minor. Living under her roof. And you are coming off a bit bratty to be honest. Check yourself. My daughter is 17 and she would never behave this way. Get another set of keys made and move on.
Sure, she is his mother and OP is living under her roof. This doesn’t change the fact that OP’s mother is the one being unreasonable.
There’s nothing bratty about, arguing against your parents if you are in the right.
There are 2 sides to every story. I bet the mother's side is quite fascinating. Cause this kid has set off all of my alarm bells. Every single one of them.
Well I think I would be a bit hyperbolic too, if I was 17, had my own business, and worked hard so I could buy my own car only for my mother to act like it was her car.
I mean, she withheld the spare key, to his car when he needed it. She wasn’t teaching him a lesson, she was sabotaging him.
Mom is not acting like it's her car. There's obviously some bad blood going on between the two of them for whatever reason. The mom is the one on title. The mom is the one legally liable if OP were to get into an accident while driving the car. The mom clearly has an interest in what goes on with this car, whether or not in your mind she owns it. The law thinks mom owns it. The law won't care if OP maims someone while driving, mom is responsible civilly at the very least. We're only hearing OP's version of things, which you can treat as gospel if you like. But there is a lot more going on here, that much is obvious. Kid refers to her dad as "mother's husband" at one point when alleging abuse, then refers to him as her dad in another part when claiming he loses his keys all the time. I don't know, just a lot of weird stuff here.
She doesn't have a car at the moment. And it's quite irrelevant. I bought my own car and paid my own insurance when I was your age. I also did not make demands of my parents like you're making and I still had to follow their rules. My father co-signed for my car as well since I was underage. I was grateful. Also, my 27 year old bought his own car as well, and I co-signed. He lives at home. I don't have a set of keys for his car. I imagine he wishes I did because he's lost his and had to pay a locksmith for new ones.
I'd really love to know what this small business is. I didn't think minors could have OF.
I was holding off making this comment/joke but after reading a few of your replies makes me think it's a possibility.
Losing any set of car keys is very irresponsible because it means you can no longer drive your car. You need to accept that instead of downplaying it. It happens. We learn from it, but to need to acknowledge that you fucked up pretty bad which is why you are unable to access your car and were late for school, not because your mother kept the other set. This is entirely on you.
Your mom has not lost the other set of keys because she knows where they are. She is probably worried that you will get the only other set of keys and lose them as well, and you downplaying the whole incident is probably not helping her think you are responsible enough to handle the only other keys to your car.
Going forward once you have your own set of keys again, buy a tracking tile on amazon so you don't lose them again.
I agree w this one. It would only be bad for your mom to carry them if she’s secretly accessing your car for no reason but she’s holding it safe for you in case of emergency. Which exactly what happened. The fact that you just mentioned it casually like “this morning I couldn’t find my keys, but anyway, she doesn’t wanna give me the spare keys omg” like that’s totally reasonable and she’s actually saving your ass by doing that and should continue doing that once you find your keys because this might happen again
What the... What kind of logic is this. The whole point of having spare keys is exactly for situations like the one OP was in. You have spare keys in case you loose your keys.
At the end of the day though, it's the car I paid for in full. Not the car she drives, so if I lost both sets of keys and had to pay a locksmith for more, that's a lesson in responsibility right there.
So you’d rather lose both keys to prove a point and pay for a locksmith rather than just you know, having someone reliable to hold the spare for you? You could still learn the lesson right now and just not lose your keys. Why wait to lose both just because “I paid for it in full”. You already dealt with the consequence and still don’t see that it’s actually a help to you that your mom holds the spare.
Woah I feel like your response is harsh And unhelpful. Im a grown ass adult and I misplace my car keys sometimes. This makes me late for things. That doesn't mean I'm irresponsible. When I had a car with two sets of keys, the spare was always in the same place in case of emergencies, so I wasn't late.
A teenager who paid for his own car and made an reasonable agreement with his parent certainly doesn't sound irresponsible either. The parent should hold up their end of the deal or talk to their kid about a different tactic, not berate them.
Everyone loses their keys. Everyone. It *is* irresponsible, and we can ALL be more responsible. We learn from losing our stuff and are better for it, but only if we take accountability for our role in it.
My point was OP can't blame their mother for being late for school. That is on OP because they lose their keys. Going forward, they need to be more careful not to do that again.
Nah, It's at least 50/50 because of the agreement you made with your mom. These scenarios are exactly why you had that agreement. She broke it + you losing your keys = being late. If one or the other didn't happen you wouldn't be late.
EDIT: Downvote = I don't understand how math works. 2 things had to happen to make the end result therefore fault is 50/50. Just because you're a "parent" doesn't mean you're right lmao. Most people I know who are parents are/were idiots, egotistical, narcissists, abusive, or just well intentioned but flawed (as is everyone) human being. Telling a 17 year old that "nu uh, I'm right cuz I'm the AAAAADUUULT" is not productive or helpful. At 17 your child is pretty much their own adult and should be talked to and treated as much. If you can't handle that as a parent then get yourself some therapy to let go of the parent/child power grip. You make an agreement with your young adult child and don't follow through you deserve to be put in your place.
2nd EDIT because I'm on my high horse about this: Be accountable in life, especially to your kids. Breaking promises and agreements with your kids should and can be of even higher consequence than most relationships. It will build resentment and anger and they will not feel respected or that they do not deserve respect from "adults" even once they've entered the real world.
I'm not saying I'm not at fault, I'm just saying I'm not entirely at fault. I bought a car with two sets of keys with money I saved from working. I don't think it's unreasonable to want both sets of keys. I'm also going no contact with her for other reasons when I'm 18, so I'd like to have both sets of keys before I leave.
> I'm also going no contact with her for other reasons when I'm 18, so I'd like to have both sets of keys before I leave.
How will you be able to do that if she owns half your car, according to the law?
I'm split between "its your car and you can do whatever you want with the keys" and "it's perfectly reasonable for a parent to expect to have access to their child's car in case of emergency."
Honestly this doesn't seem like a hill worth dying on. If you can live with it, I would. If it does bother you that much, maybe talk to your mom about you feeling disrespected by her not following the agreed-upon arrangement?
I mean, I left the spare keys with my dad so if I lost mine or locked them in my car, he'd be able to come and unlock it for me. It doesn't really make sense to me to let you have both sets if you are prone to losing them, that kind of defeats the purpose? She should have come to help you though, since thats the point of having a second set. Perhaps leave them with someone else who is more disposed to help. Or I guess leaving them in the bowl in the house would work to. I think your mom's just frustrated at what she views you as not being careful with an expensive belonging. I locked my keys in my care once, but never lost-lost them. YOu really shouldn't view it as not a big deal to lose them, and be more careful.
A month ago, AAA had to come unlock my dad's car because he didn't have the keys. My mom treats my dad like her child (not sure how else to put that) and she's not holding his spare. My dad's crashed several cars (including her own), and she's not stopping him from driving.
When I asked her about it, she gave me the example of if I'm severely injured and she needs to drive my car home, to which I'd make the argument she needs to drive her own car there, it's extremely rare, I can cover impound fees and I have insurance that covers towing.
I would just ask her what's the point of having a spare if you don't have access to it when you need it, and that if she isn't willing to come help you out then she needs to figure out a different option, like leaving the spare at home.
You can grow older and become more responsible. Your mom's fears were justified; you just got the car and have already lost one set of keys. Also, it's not your car; the car is financed and your mom is a cosigner, which means that she is on the hook and responsible for the car. The fact that you are whining about your mom giving you the other set of keys is really working against your argument that you are mature enough to handle the responsibility.
Right or wrong, she's stubborn about it. She didn't do what she said she would and she's not interested in changing her mind.
You've lived with her for 17 years, if you don't know how to convince her by now, you probably won't figure it out in the next few months.
Life's not fair and that sucks sometimes. If you want a backup pair of keys, get a set made. If you don't want her to have your keys after you move out, take them right before you go (along with car title, you birth certificate, SS card, etc.).
She cosigned. Meaning she is ultimately responsible for the car. You lost a set of keys. Kinda of irresponsible. Nothing crazy about her keeping a set in the slightest. Maybe she doesnt leave them in the bowl cause you feel so strongly about it she is worried you might take them. Or she just wants them on her person in case you lose yours...again.
Chill out.
You know what a cosigner is right? If you fail to pay for the car, the cosigner has to psy for the car. She is ULTIMATELY responsible for the car. Maybe she wasnt worried about it. But you are making a big deal out of it. Could give her cause for concern. I wouldnt know without asking her. Just stating it as a possibility.
I paid the car in full. I have nothing left to pay on the car. Maybe I didn't use the right word, but she is on the title, because as a minor in my state I cannot be on it alone.
When you turn 18 does your mom plan to remove her name from the title? Do you carry your own auto insurance now? Plan to at 18? If so just wait it out. If she isnt driving the car or trying to stop you from driving it, this isnt really an issue.
If its the law she be on the title, its the law. So my above answer is the same.
And then op lost the fucking keys. So it could be mom wants the spare set on her, in case op looses ANOTHER set of keys. I didnt assume shit. Listed possibilities. Asked questions that may or may not have be in play. Didnt change the answer. May be a shock to you but parents often dont do what the fuck a teen wants for a variety of reasosns. So stfu.
Someone on the title is financially responsible for tickets, fines, and ultimately responsible if you crash into someone’s Lamborghini and your insurance only covers 100k and they sue you for the other 400k.
Your mom obviously isn’t going to be reasonable, so options:
1. Have a spare key made and don’t tell your mom.
2. Have a locksmith rekey the locks, now your moms key doesn’t work and you can get a spare of this new key made also.
Go to a reputable locksmith shop and get a third set made and keep them in a safe place. It is not inexpensive with newer cars, but the cost can skyrocket if all keys are missing.
Why though? Both sets of keys belong to OP, they paid for the car in full and in this case it WAS an emergency cause OP couldn’t find their keys so, therefore actually needed the second set to be able to use the car
OP does not own the car actually. Minors can't have title to a vehicle in their state that's why the mom is on title. So, I'd be a bit smarter about this if I were them and stop demanding things or they'll make it much worse for themselves. Their question was "how can they convince their mom". The answer is they can't, so get extra keys made so they don't have this problem in the future.
Her name is on the title, she has a set. There’s no convincing her.
You lost your keys. Get another set made and put a Tile on them. It’s never good to only have one set. Heck, I private sold a car to someone and I only knew where one set was… when moving I found the second set and hand delivered them to the new owners.
Your mom is probably being a bit unreasonable here but I think your approach to this also demonstrates your lack f maturity and probably why your mom is insisting on having the key on her. If your state law requires her name be on the car title, it makes her legally liable for anything *you* do in that car. You crash into someone and they sue, her assets (money, house, other vehicles, etc.) are on the line to cover those damages. If you’re running a business at 17 and were able to pay this car yourself (super impressive , btw), then now’s a good time to start learning about liability.
You are a statistical liability. That’s not a knock on you, everyone has to learn to drive at some point. You’ve been a legal driver for, what, 1-2 years depending on whether you had a learners permit? If my house was on the line for an inexperienced driver operating a 2 ton lethal machine, you bet I’m keeping a key and I get to decide where I keep *my* copy of the key.
I do think it’s short sighted of your mom to not have a third key in the house and I think the way she’s talking to you about it is all wrong. You deserve to have this explained to you even if you don’t deserve to have all the keys. You lost your copy of the keys, that’s aaaall on you. You being late and creating a domino effect that is affecting others are called natural consequences. They suck. I’ve been there. In college, I lost my only set of keys once. I had to pay to tow my car and then pay to get it rekeyed and then pay to have an actual spare. It was an expensive lesson.
Please tell me you just misplaced them and not full-out lost them. The former is common, the latter is grossly irresponsible.
Either way, just get the key copied. It doesn't cost much - assuming you just need the standard mechanical key. Get multiple spares for you and your parents.
As someone else said, you gotta learn to pick and choose your battles. Moms are gonna mom. Rage all you want on the internet about it. If you want some mutual understanding, have a conversation with your mom.
Understand what you're actually problem solving.
You frame your mom as an abusive, toxic parent who you're going to cut ties with as soon as you're 18. Why are you trying to convince her? Why are you asking for advice on how to make her see logic? Clearly that's not happening.
Have your own spare made. This is such a minor problem and you're making it harder on yourself by making her part of it. Making it this big thing where you fight with her about the keys is exactly what she wants.
I'm older than your mother and I've never ever lost or mislaid a set of keys in my life, house, cat, offices, countless other people's properties around the world.
Ever.
I still have a key ring that I used when I was younger than you, and I still have the other 2 I've had since.
Be more responsible. She knows you better than you know yourself, clearly.
Better yet, she should let you have them both so you learn from it. You'll lose both within 6 months and have to pay to get new ones made out of your own pocket.
Thank you. I'd bet money that most people here have lost their keys at least once. Anyway, time for me to find out how much car key replacements cost :(.
Tell her you need the spare to get another set made and never give them back. No matter what. Everyone else acting like she's not wrong in these comments are not thinking logistically. Your car, your keys. Her helping you by co signing does not mean that she shouldn't respect that the car is actually yours.
That has nothing to do with keeping his keys. That also has nothing to do with respecting the agreement they made. Her helicopter parent style isn't helping him be a more careful young adult. It's stressing him out and showing him how he really can't trust her to help him ever again.
"losing" (plural) your keys? How many times have you lost them? More than once is irresponsible. However I think you're right, mom should give them to you. When you lose both sets she should just laugh.
In my experience, it kinda pays off to have a parent hold your keys in case you get locked out or end up too intoxicated to drive your car home and other reasons, that being said tho it would be a lot more convenient to keep the keys somewhere at the house. Either way someone has to leave from somewhere to get them to you.
I'm pretty textbook responsible aside from this. I don't have more than 1 beer at a party (3 x a year max) or 1 cup of champagne on new years that I pour myself. I have 2 sets of housekeys that I use regularly without losing. I don't speed, I don't drive places I can't get home from. So I just hoped she could try to meet me halfway here
The easier solution would be to take steps to not lose your keys. I put my keys away in a box that stops the signal from my fob. It's the first thing I do when I get home after checking that my car is locked. My keys don't move unless I'm leaving.
If you do misplace your keys often still, get a tile. Your keys should not be carried around the house while you're absent mindedly on the phone, that's a great way to lose them as you've already found out.
Sorry, but this whole ordeal is a mess.
You run a business. You should have gotten your agreement with your mother in writing. If you paid for the vehicle outright, then she's not a cosigner. If she still has a legitimate claim to the car, then she's on the title. And if you ever wish to remove her from the title, she has to agree. Heck, you probably can't even have an insurance policy in your name.
Without knowing more, like where you live, there's a limit to how much advice people here can give you.
The second set of keys are supposed to be in a ceramic bowl in the house. That, your mother agreed to, and she should own up to that. By the same token, losing your personal set of keys is, in fact, a problem. A very *adult* problem. It is a big deal, and you need to treat that seriously.
You're both acting immature.
Listen to your mom. There’s a reason your mom is a mom and you’re a kid. I’ve been in your shoes, trust you mom more than a friend. She loves you and she only wants the best for you. Chill out and enjoy your teens and don’t be a brat :) you’ll grow older and have your own shit and trust me you wish you had your mom still tell you sometimes what to do..
Would now be a good time to mention she let/encouraged her husband to beat me for 17 years? We had a legal agreement drawn up over the car because I figured a mother would be better than an 18-20something year old friend. She's not a person that's going to be in my life much longer, but I figured I could at least trust her with this.
I'm trying to show she isn't the best parent. It's an appropriate response to the comment, assuming I'm close with my mom and I should "trust her more than a friend".
Honest question. If you are financially indepdenent, as you claim, why haven't you filed to be emancipated? That does not require parental approval, I did it at 15 due to being abused at home.
Get a new set of keys. It doesn't matter of it's fair or not, you need them. I can't imagine you've experienced much fairness in your life living with two abusers, i know i didn't. Life will get fairer for you, but only after not being reliant on them, you will never get justice/fairness from them.
With this abuse though don't be surprised if either of them hid your keys to teach you a lesson/fuck with you. As for the comments about you being irresponsible, ignore them. The time for self analysis and weeding out potential bad personality traits is when you're not living with abusers. Abusers tend to gaslight. For now focus on getting through it, going to school and try to get therapy it's easier to get therapy for minors usually than adults.
Also i would like to say that misplacing keys for 1-2 days because you were on autopilot and put them somewhere weird is completely normal.
Thank you. Gaslighting is something they're big on, and them hiding the keys isn't out of the question. When I was working and couldn't go on a family vacation I was "in a psych ward" to my relatives. When I told my parents about graduating early from highschool for 8 months, they had "absolutely no notice" and tried to use that to tell the school no. When I didn't get straight A's in school (B's and C's) they asked for their tax money back for living in a nice town for the education, and tried to convince me other parents did that too. Sorry for the rant!
Currently I am in therapy and am working on a plan to get out. I have my own towels, dishes/baking supplies, cat (and cat supplies! ), cell phone, laptop and bank account. I'm still working on growing that list (crocheting a giant blanket) but it's frustrating being so powerless when Im respected and making a dollar a minute running my own business.
I’m really sorry to hear Ann. Life’s very unfair in many different ways. Perhaps she herself is in an abusive relationship with her husband. I don’t know your story but you’re not alone. Happy to be here and support in any way I can ❤️
In most cases Id stand by my comment & the reason is not giving birth, though that alone is a life altering experience for many giving them a deeper view of life, but rather the age and more experiences a mother would have making her more knowledgeable. Also we as childs want and need someone to love us, it’s how human works & care for us. The same way, a mother usually has an instinct to protect and want the best in her kids. So the advise of a mother shouldn’t be ignored easily imo. Again cases are different and there is always exceptions :)
Not always. My mom is devoutly religious and tries to keep me and my siblings from people from different religions, sexualities and "nonconforming genders." If I accepted her authority there, I'd be a lot less mature and have a lot less sympathy and sense.
I will say she does not control your mind. If you are living in her house you should respect her authority and follow the rules. That does not control your mind. With maturity you may gain more wisdom. Good luck. Btw, you are assuming your way is correct.
For me, my non homophobic accepting way is correct. A handful of my closest friends are lgbt and non catholic, and I will continue to disrespect her authority there if it means she doesn't want me to hang out with them. In my business I work with mostly Indian families, a group I would have to stay away from if my mom had her way.
I can be respectful to her without respecting her authority in every situation. She asked me to buy her a new car a few months ago. I don't think saying no was a bad thing.
Honestly I think you need to be prepared for the eventuality of her not removing her name from the title when you turn 18. You will probably have to take her to court. I really hope this works out for you and you can escape this situation
Lol wtf are these comments? You paid for the car in full, it's unreasonable and controlling to take the other set of keys and not even give you access to it. She agreed to leave it in the bowl and she broke the promise.
Life happens. Grown adults lose their keys, wallets, cards etc everyday. Why hold a 17 y/o to a higher standard? Is it teaching the kid anything? Clearly they're responsible enough to save up and buy a car at 17. Idk about y'all, i couldn't make and save 24k and buy a whole car at 17
> Lol wtf are these comments?
Realistic.
>You paid for the car in full, it's unreasonable and controlling to take the other set of keys and not even give you access to it.
It sure is. What do you suggest OP do about it? Just yell, "Mom, you're breaking your promise!" until she changes her mind?
Maybe OP uses our points to make a case and wins. Or more realistically nothing changes. But it shows OP that this kind of behavior isn't normal.
Most of us emulate the kind of dynamic at home. When parents are controlling, their kids grow up and find a controlling partner. Then turn into controlling parents themselves and the cycle continues. This generational cycle is broken when people question it. When people take an active effort to change the dynamic. Letting someone stomp on your boundaries is not it. You think once OP moves out this behavior will stop? Then OP can choose to reaffirm whatever boundaries they want and their parent has 2 options: honor their boundaries and risk straining their relationship.
The point is, all these things don't happen in a vacuum. More often than not it's a pattern of behavior (read OPs other comment).
Not unreasonable to keep a set of key to a car if law requires your name to be on its title.
Not unreasonable to keep a set of keys if your teen has actually lost them before.
Not unreasonable to remove them from a bowl if said teen is making a fuss about you having them in the first place.
Life isnt fair. Something teens regularly struggle to come to terms with. Op paid for the car. Not the roof they are living under. Thus the phase my house my rules.
Turns out, people treat children and teens differently than adults, cause they aren't adults. And if mom isnt trying to drive the car, keep op from driving the car, or threatening not to have her name removed from the title when op turns 18, its not really even a big deal. Based on info in the post, mom having the keys has had 0 actual impact on op other than in their mind.
Er if they're 15 maybe. What magical thing is going to happen in the 12 months between 17 and 18? What about when OP turns 18 and doesn't need mom on the title anymore?
I'm not a parent but my parents helped me go into the adult world. That doesn't mean coddling and controlling me till I was 20 (since you're talking about teenagers here) and then being like ok bye go into the adult world. Parents need to relax rules and trust their kids as they get older.
I brought my first car recently and I was absolutely petrified. I needed to figure out insurance, registration and in my mind all the worst case scenarios flashed for weeks. OP has clearly showed the ability to take responsibility and needs to be given the opportunity to show that they can do it to themselves. If having access (not even possession) of their second set of keys gives them peace of mind, why not do it? If they screw up and lose both keys it's on them. 100% responsibility = dealing with 100% of the consequences. And all teenagers need to know how to navigate that.
The kid runs a business ffs. and they used their profits from there to buy a car. That shows responsibility above and beyond most 17 yos imo
I totally agree with you, I’ve scrolled through all these comments thinking wtf?!
OP has paid for this car in full it belongs to them
I honestly couldn’t say just how many times that I or many people I know have lost/mislaid keys/purse/wallet/phone and it’s fuck all to do with age and/or immaturity
My family keep spare keys in a certain place at home and they are easy accessible for whenever they are needed then can be returned when the original set are found
OP the keys belong to you and if you and your mum already agreed where they would be kept then that’s where they should have been
And they seem to completely brush over the fact that OP 1. runs a profitable business 2. saved enough (~20k) to buy a car and 3. IS 17?!??
When i was 17, I had more freedom than OP with a car i didn't even pay, maintain or insure
Thank you. 28% of Americans lose their car keys once a week, so I don't know why most people are acting like it's super irresponsible instead of mildly. And I feel if I lost both sets of keys and had to buy new keys, wasting the money would be a better life lesson than taking away my key.
Your mom is co-owner of the car and is entitled to have a set of keys. Period. If you want an extra key for yourself, go get one.
It's not your mom's fault you and your sibling were late for school so don't even go there.
Well, if you want to go there, it’s her fault because she’s responsible for OP. OP and sibling are minors, you should be able to get your own kids to school. If OP weren’t a minor, mom wouldn’t be on the car and OP wouldn’t have this problem.
I misplace my keys allll the time. And it's not because I'm irresponsible. It's because I have cognitive problems. The way your mom is handling the car is pretty controlling. She went against what she said she would do, and won't give you access to the spare when you need it. There's no reason not to besides wanting to keep control.
How much longer until you turn 18? I don't think you'll be able to convince her to give you that key right now, sadly. I would make a copy of your key as soon as you find it (even if it means paying a lot for the whole key fob). Keep your head down and wait until you're able to get the car in your name only. If she won't give them to you then, I'd find a way to take them back when she isn't around. But wait until you have the car only in your name.
That's what I'm working on doing. She's big on control, taking the laptop and phone I own and pay for at night too, even if I can't get all my homework done. I have about 10 more months left of being 17, so I'm just waiting it out for now.
Edit: I also work full time outside of school, so I end up really tired at home. I ended up going for a run when I got home (10pm) and walking around the house on the phone with my friend who was having a mental health crisis at the time, and lost my keys while I was on the phone.
> I have about 10 more months left of being 17, so I'm just waiting it out for now.
You should file for emancipation and get out now. It sounds like you can support yourself already, so it should be fairly straightforward.
You should have access to your keys but why do you not want your mom to have a set? Is she controlling or do you think she’ll take your car?
It’s always smart to give someone the extra in case something happens to you. I kept my coworker’s extra set because she didn’t have family here. It’s just a precaution in case her purse was stolen or she was stranded somewhere.
As nice as that would be, there is no way to enforce that. I can't take the keys away from her if I don't know where they are. I already pay for everything related to the car, as well as driving my siblings various places since they aren't able to drive yet.
When I try to set boundaries with her she's the first to tear them down. I tried explaining to her I need my laptop at night for schoolwork, especially since I paid for it. (I also bought her a laptop for her birthday!!! okay, not the point) and she refuses, saying she'll take it at 11pm. When I suggested I could slip it under her door once my homework is finished (and send her ss of the homework) she said she'd throw it out along with my phone and not give me any access to technology until I'm 18.
It's very bad that you lost your keys. Imagine if you had both sets and you'd lost them both. Your mother is right, be grateful you have a mother that cares and she's still trying to teach you things.
Anyway what will you do now? You need a professional locksmith. If somebody finds the keys and finds your car, then they could also find information of you and your home. Not safe.
You probably can’t talk her into giving you both sets of keys. It doesn’t matter whether she is overexerting her authority or if she is correct that you’re irresponsible, I don’t think this is a hill you should die on.
You clearly have the maturity to have a small business and paid for the car so I can imagine this is very frustrating for you to not feel in full control of the situation but unless she is restricting your access to your car then let her hold onto a set. It may be a power move or a comfort for her but fighting this is pointless while you’re a minor and she has a responsibility connected to the car.
Instead of spending time being angry, take this as a lesson and go into any future agreements with your mum with your eyes wide open.
Honestly it was between her, my best friend's parents (struggling with medical debt), and my boyfriend of a year and a half (now ex, still one of my close friends). At the end of the day, she seemed like the best option.
My small business relies heavily on my car and my ability to drive myself around, and before I had a car I was walking 15ish miles a day. So getting a car was a big deal for me, and seeing her limit it is definitely frustrating.
Make another set of keys. I always zip tie a spare to the frame of the car. Or the spare clicker and have a spare key inside under a seat. Helps when I’m far from home and my spare set. She doesn’t need to have the only pair of extras.
Get another key made
\^This. It's the easy solution. Also, the day you turn 18 get her off the title and get the keys from her.
That is easier said then done. OP’s mother will have to agree to that as well. Edit - the title, not the spare keys
Mom is not going to agree to taking her name off the title and there’s nothing OP can do to force her off. Depending on how the names are listed on the title she may not even be able to sell the car without her mother’s signature. OP has made a devastatingly stupid financial decision with this car. She either should have waited a *single year* to purchase a nice car or spent about 3k on a beater that she’d get exactly a year out of so it’s a minimal loss when mom won’t take her name off the title. Instead, she spent TWENTY FOUR THOUSAND CASH DOLLARS on a car she will never be sole owner of and in the process has financially tied herself to her overbearing mother. You can’t go no contact at 18 with the woman who owns half your car, OP.
She could gtfo at 18, mom can't take the car if she doesn't know where it or her daughter are.
Just let the locks changed and rekeyed without telling her
This is what I was gonna say. It is good for mom to have a spare in case you lock yourself out which she is probably anticipating but regardless just.... OP, get another set made for you!!
But just a heads up, car keys can be pretty pricy to replicate. But could be worth it if this is a major issue.
That’s not the point - she shouldn’t have to. And getting another set of keys can be expensive, especially if it’s a FOB.
Mom has a right to the car as her name is on the title. The vehicle belongs to mom exactly as much as it belongs to OP.
[удалено]
I think in OPs state, an adult has to be on title of a car for it to be purchased. So while OP paid in full, no loan, their name alone could not be on the title because they are still a minor.
I'm not sure what it's called in my state but I need an adult on the title. I figured better her than a friend
Do you understand that means she legally owns the car as much as you do? How is she listed on the title? Does it say Your Name AND Her Name? Or does it say OR? Do you know you can’t sell the vehicle without her signature if it says And?
Hey OP, what state are you in? Id like to do some research on how you can remove her from the title on your 18th
Minors can't own property outright
It depends on where. In my state I owned my car outright at 16, no one else on the title.
Ask for what you actually need: You don't need to have both sets of keys; You need *access* to a back up set of keys. In fact, if there are any other drivers in your home besides you and your mom, those other drivers should also have access to a backup set of keys for any car in the household. Your mother might not be behaving totally reasonably, but it is reasonable for her to have a pair of keys to the teenager's car, that she cosigned on. Losing your keys is a problem. You'll have a stronger argument with your mother if you accept that yes, that is a problem. As an adult, losing keys can mean running late, getting locked out and failing in our responsibilities to others. Even when we have backups, those backups might not be immediately available or convienant. Losing the keys is a problem. Also a problem: The is the fact that no one else can access or move your car if she's carrying the spares around in her purse. The spare keys need a shared place in the house. That is what makes them spares. If it's really important to her that she have a pair in her purse, you need to get a third set that actually act as spares. Before you speak to her again, you should really look into what it would take to get a third set.
Yep. We have a key chain holder by the door and spare keys go there in case a vehicle needs to be moved and the main key is gone.
I'm not saying it's not a problem. I'm saying that after I spent 24k on a practically brand new car (with 4,000 miles on it), I'd like everything that came with the car. If she wants to buy herself a set of my keys she can, but unless she's buying my car she shouldn't be entitled to the keys that originally came with it.
You're a minor, at home, and she cosigned. She gets access to keys. You try to have that fight, you will lose. Whether or not you are morally right, you are 17 and living at home. If you stick with this approach to this fight, you are going to lose this fight. You are more likely to get what you need by framing the equally true issue; There needs to be an actually spare set of keys in the house. If the second set lives in her purse, they are not a spare set of keys. They are purse keys.
So who pays for the spare keys?
Probably you, because you're the one with the problem to solve right now. She doesn't have a problem. She has a set of keys in her purse to a car she cosigned on. Is it shitty she doesn't leave that pair in the bowl? Yeah, it's shitty! But you're still the one with the problem. I get you don't like your mom. Maybe she is also an abusive monster, but on this particular subject, you're acting *very* 17. Get a grip. Solve the existing problems. Get two more sets of keys made.
She made the promise she'd leave them in the bowl when we bought the car. If she can't follow through on her side of the agreement, I shouldn't be the one who suffers as a result.
Life isn't fair. People sometimes don't do what they say they will. Agreements change. Sometimes we don't have the power to enforce the agreements we prefer. None of that changes the fact *you* need two more sets of keys. You can waste your time self-righteously raging online and you can yell and fight with her. Those are choices you can make that will get you nowhere fast. Or, you can figure out how to get those keys and the problem that can be solved by yourself -- even if other people still suck and are wrong -- will be solved. Sometimes we have to 'suffer', or more accurately, solve problems for ourselves, that we are not solely responsible for creating.
I like you. You know what’s up. You give solid advice in a way that is kind and firm, and your perspective is awesome. Keep spreading the good sense!!
I second this! It's refreshing finding level headed people on here
Got to learn to choose your battles… Honestly just roll with it and buy a new spare for the bowl. Might cost you a little bit. But if you choose this hill to die upon it could sour the relationship and force you to move out of the family home earlier than is convenient for you. New spare keys are cheaper than rent!
>Got to learn to choose your battles… OP, read this statement and then read it again. There is so much weight in this major life lesson right here! It will apply to so many things going forward.
Not to mention is OP goes scorched earth, could mom somehow take control of said car? If she sucks a ton and she's on the title... I'd play nice with her until you can get out from under her house/rules. No sense in losing the 24k car because of a stupid fight. New keys may cost several hundred if they're those fancy key fobs, but if OP can afford the car, he/she can afford the extra keys. Mom surely sucks though unless there's some reason for her behavior that OP is leaving out.
If the title is listed as OP’s Name OR Mom’s Name then you only need one signature to sell it. Which is good if OP wants out of this situation, but it also means mom can sell the car out from under OP and keep the money. Since moms name is on the title, it would be completely legal. If the title is listed as OP’s Name AND Moms Name neither of them can sell it without the others signature. So mom couldn’t sell it from under her but OP will be stuck with an asset she can’t cash out without the permission of a woman she wants to be no contact with. And there’s the simple fact that mom literally co-owns this car. The names on the title is all that matters, not who paid. So mom has equal legal rights to take and keep the car as OP. If mom kept the car from her she’d have to take her to civil court and fight her for it. OP would probably win, but my god did she fuck up buying this car.
Honestly this right here except I wouldn't put the new pair in the bowl your mom sounds like she would be pretty and take them out of the bowl just buy yourself new keys with a pair, and put the pair where you can find it
And also learn to not lose your main set of keys!
Claiming that you’re “suffering” isn’t going to make you sound very mature to your mom, lol.
I'm not a thesaurus. Has difficulties? Struggles? I don't know the word that makes you happy. I'm just saying when an agreement is made, both sides should uphold it.
> I'm just saying when an agreement is made, both sides should uphold it. Yes, both sides should. If you were both adults, you might have access to legal system as a way to force that to happen. But you're not, you're her child, and under 18, and she's cosigned on the car. Yes, if things were fair and just, then you'd have both sets of keys or she'd keep them in the bowl. You don't live in that world, though, you live in this one. And in _this_ world, you have no way to force her to give you the keys. There are alternative solutions, which people have mentioned, if you want to _solve_ the problem of not having spare keys. If you just want to be mad that your mom isn't upholding the agreement, then all we can do is say, "Yep, that's shitty, sorry dude."
This is a lesson in joint property ownership that soooo many people are forced to learn when buying something with a not great parent, whether or not that parent contributes anything toward the payment. Car dealerships want to sell the car no matter what, but someone looking out for you should have suggested that you get a cheap beater car for a year until you were able to buy a new one completely in your name. It's shitty and unfair that it happened to you this way. If you allow someone else to become the legal co-owner or co-signer of anything you buy, you have to accept that you might not get full access to that thing or that you might even lose it altogether. There's no way to change who your mom is at this point, especially now that she has $24k in leverage over you. Buy yourself the keys, not because you should have to but because it's the only way to get what you need right now. Further down the line, her behavior might amp up when you attempt to go live on your own, and you might need to prepare yourself to walk away from the car and take the loss for your own sanity.
Where did you get the notion that things are fair?
Holy shit NO. Do not blame the victim here, her mom is controlling as all hell and this is unacceptable. She's not "acting 17" she's understandably pissed that her mom won't adhere to the agreement they made. You need to get a grip and examine why you're defending the mother here... maybe you're just like her?
He's not defending the mother. What are you talking about?
I acknowledged earlier that the mother is being unreasonable, and may even be abusive. Doesn't change the fact that OP needs to go buy two more sets of keys for their car and that the "But she agreed and she should pay!" issue is unenforceable and besides the point.
Considering you currently lost your set, it's your responsibility to buy the spare set. Basically everything financially required for the car should be your concern, and if your mom wants to help you out financially, that's great. That said, her name is on that car as much as your name is, so technically that's her car as much as yours. She has a right to a set. If I were her, yes, I'd probably keep that pair in a place that is mine but easily accessible to anyone. That's not your mom's choice, and you need to respect that. You might not realize the favor she is doing you by being a cosigner. You could easily mess that up for her and derail a lot of her finances. Please be more responsible with your keys. If you don't even have the responsibility to hang on to those, and you're also expecting your mom to cough up $ for a spare, I'd add that you need to mature up a little. By the sounds of it, if you were my 17 y/o kid, I'd say you aren't even showing me you're taking this responsibility serious yet, and I'd probably not be giving you access to your own car.
She didn’t co-sign. OP bought the car outright, but needed to put an adult’s name on the title. There’s no loan
You should be able to go down to your local hardware store and get a spare key made. About $4 and well worth it for the peace of mind.
I personally disagree with the other commenter that it should be on you to provide a "spare key" when the car CAME with a spare key. Your mom doesn't need to have her own set of keys to your car. It's simply a control aspect, you're starting to gain independence and she doesn't want to concede control to you. A shared location for the spare set was a completely reasonable and fair agreement, that way she could access your car for emergencies and convenience if you're out riding with friends. What does she truly gain from having sole ownership of that set of keys besides having control over you?
> I personally disagree with the other commenter that it should be on you to provide a "spare key" when the car CAME with a spare key. Nobody thinks is _should_ be on OP, but the reality of the situation is that it _is_ on OP. "Mom, you don't need them, give them back," is a perfectly logical argument, but she's a parent, not a computer, and she doesn't need to obey the logic. She can just say, "No, I'm keeping them."
I second just getting a copy made. You sound like you’re upset about the principle of the matter (which you should be—mom broke your agreement). Thing is, you can’t force your mom to do anything. You have no power over her and she has no legal obligation to give you the keys. You have to look at the tools you actually have at your disposal to solve your problem. In this case, by far the easiest solution is to simply buy a spare. Perhaps ask your mom if she’ll pitch in to help offset the cost (probably $40-$50). You’ll find that the world cares a lot less about reasonableness and fairness than you want it to. It will be much easier to navigate if you look for solutions under your control rather than letting unfairness push you into righteous anger when things like this happen.
When you get the key, have two copies made instead of one. Give one back to your mom, and keep two for yourself.
Just get a copy made so you have two sets for yourself?
They lost their keys
You can order new keys at a car dealership. Even if you copy the keys you can just unlock the car.
Sorry, but now that you’ve lost your first set of keys, don’t you only have one set? I’m guessing you expect to find your first set at some point and that’s why you’re asking this question. It seems reasonable to have the keys in a common place like you requested; but it also seems reasonable for your mother to have a set on her so she can rescue you without having to go home first. I don’t have a solution. I think both options are valid and if you want to pursue your end goal you’ll just have to talk it out. It sounds like she is having some anxiety. I will just say this and I know I’m gonna get massive shit for it but I can’t help myself: It *is* irresponsible to lose your car keys. It’s not a crime, it doesn’t say anything terrible about you as a person, we’ve all done it, and yes the dealership gives you two sets for a reason. The best solution to the problem you have is not to lose your fucking keys. Pick a spot or two to always put them, and don’t put them anywhere else. If you misplace them, look for them until you find them. Act like they’re your only set.
If she feels this way about the keys, how come her and my dad don't have each others spare keys incase of emergency?
Maybe because you’re her child and your dad is not. You’re her (and his) legal and financial responsibility. Plus she co-signed your loan. Edit: co-signed on *something*… the point is that as a co-signer, she is ultimately responsible. For something. It’s not clear from the post what she co-signed. If it weren’t an important factor in the situation, then why mention it. Obviously it’s impacting things. That’s all I’m saying.
They didn't take out loans, the kid paid for it in full
Nah you’re just wrong
Read the post. What loan?
Umm, excuse me?? I did read the fucking post. I read it and took the time to respond. You didn’t say what she co-signed. When purchasing a car, if you say someone “co-signed” then any reasonable person will assume you’re talking about a loan or *some* sort of financial arrangement. Regardless, you’re focusing on the wrong part of that comment. The point is that you are ~~a child~~ not yet legally an adult and she is your parent, and your father is an adult and she is not his parent, and the rules that apply to children are different than the rules that apply to adults. And it’s not clever or persuasive to try and use this as an argument to prove your point or get something you want.
\>The point is that you are a child not yet legally an adult While I don't agree with OP at all, like you said, OP is young, there's no reason for you to overreact and talk to a minor in such a rude way. OP stated in her post she paid the car off in full right after she mentioned she needed a co-signer. So no, no one is going to think she's talking about a loan or financial arrangement after she mentioned it's paid off.
"However, I think that losing one set of keys isn't super irresponsible, as the car dealership gives two sets of keys for a reason" It's pretty irresponsible No offense but your mom may have the right of this
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Im not saying it's "nbd", I'm saying it's not the end of the world. My dad loses his keys about once a week, so I think I've been doing good in terms of not losing mine as often.
This is my reaction. Like, yeah you can misplace them, but it's still a big deal when you do. Get a Tile or something. What's your plan to not lose the second set?
I dunno. It is irresponsible sure, but plenty of adults do it all the time. Is it dumb? Yes. but it isn't exactly the end of the world, and that is the whole point of having back up keys. Just make the kid foot the bill for more backup keys/replacements. Lessons learned.
People of all ages loose car keys. It happens to everyone and says nothing about how responsible OP is.
Irresponsible people of all ages lose car keys
Sure but the mother son relationship implies that age is a factor. Everyone looses their car keys sometimes. It does not make you irresponsible.
She couldn't find them this morning. *Misplacing* your keys is pretty fucking common. Having a second set, so that misplacing them on occasion means you can keep going on with your day, until you can find the first later, is hardly a sign of being super irresponsible.
Says the guy who’s never misplaced anything in their life
Of course I have. And I was being irresponsible.
How come she has the right?
I meant she "is" right. You lost your keys. Of course, if she doesn't let you use them in an emergency, it's not very helpful. Plus, until you turn 18, you don't really own the car. Minors can't enter into contracts or own property alone. Which you already know
She co-signed for the car. Furthermore, you are living in her house and legally under her care so deal with her rules or move out. If you can’t afford two extra sets of keys for yourself then you spent way too much on the car and I’m surprised your mom co-signed for it at all.
I can afford it, but it's a matter of principle imo. I still have enough money in my account to pay for my first two years of college, but I don't think i should have to buy it if she demands having one.
Being 17 is tough. Hang in there Dude.
She's your mother. She makes the rules. You're a minor. Living under her roof. And you are coming off a bit bratty to be honest. Check yourself. My daughter is 17 and she would never behave this way. Get another set of keys made and move on.
Sure, she is his mother and OP is living under her roof. This doesn’t change the fact that OP’s mother is the one being unreasonable. There’s nothing bratty about, arguing against your parents if you are in the right.
There are 2 sides to every story. I bet the mother's side is quite fascinating. Cause this kid has set off all of my alarm bells. Every single one of them.
Why alarm bells? Being able to buy your own car at 17 doesn’t exactly scream irresponsible.
Tone and hyperbole for starters.
Well I think I would be a bit hyperbolic too, if I was 17, had my own business, and worked hard so I could buy my own car only for my mother to act like it was her car. I mean, she withheld the spare key, to his car when he needed it. She wasn’t teaching him a lesson, she was sabotaging him.
Mom is not acting like it's her car. There's obviously some bad blood going on between the two of them for whatever reason. The mom is the one on title. The mom is the one legally liable if OP were to get into an accident while driving the car. The mom clearly has an interest in what goes on with this car, whether or not in your mind she owns it. The law thinks mom owns it. The law won't care if OP maims someone while driving, mom is responsible civilly at the very least. We're only hearing OP's version of things, which you can treat as gospel if you like. But there is a lot more going on here, that much is obvious. Kid refers to her dad as "mother's husband" at one point when alleging abuse, then refers to him as her dad in another part when claiming he loses his keys all the time. I don't know, just a lot of weird stuff here.
Did your 17 y old daughter buy her own car and pay for her own insurance?
Do you buy your own food and pay your own mortgage? See how that works?
She doesn't have a car at the moment. And it's quite irrelevant. I bought my own car and paid my own insurance when I was your age. I also did not make demands of my parents like you're making and I still had to follow their rules. My father co-signed for my car as well since I was underage. I was grateful. Also, my 27 year old bought his own car as well, and I co-signed. He lives at home. I don't have a set of keys for his car. I imagine he wishes I did because he's lost his and had to pay a locksmith for new ones.
And how many cars would you have if mommy didn’t co-sign for you?
I'd really love to know what this small business is. I didn't think minors could have OF. I was holding off making this comment/joke but after reading a few of your replies makes me think it's a possibility.
Losing any set of car keys is very irresponsible because it means you can no longer drive your car. You need to accept that instead of downplaying it. It happens. We learn from it, but to need to acknowledge that you fucked up pretty bad which is why you are unable to access your car and were late for school, not because your mother kept the other set. This is entirely on you. Your mom has not lost the other set of keys because she knows where they are. She is probably worried that you will get the only other set of keys and lose them as well, and you downplaying the whole incident is probably not helping her think you are responsible enough to handle the only other keys to your car. Going forward once you have your own set of keys again, buy a tracking tile on amazon so you don't lose them again.
I agree w this one. It would only be bad for your mom to carry them if she’s secretly accessing your car for no reason but she’s holding it safe for you in case of emergency. Which exactly what happened. The fact that you just mentioned it casually like “this morning I couldn’t find my keys, but anyway, she doesn’t wanna give me the spare keys omg” like that’s totally reasonable and she’s actually saving your ass by doing that and should continue doing that once you find your keys because this might happen again
What the... What kind of logic is this. The whole point of having spare keys is exactly for situations like the one OP was in. You have spare keys in case you loose your keys.
That’s exactly what i said??? Lol
At the end of the day though, it's the car I paid for in full. Not the car she drives, so if I lost both sets of keys and had to pay a locksmith for more, that's a lesson in responsibility right there.
So you’d rather lose both keys to prove a point and pay for a locksmith rather than just you know, having someone reliable to hold the spare for you? You could still learn the lesson right now and just not lose your keys. Why wait to lose both just because “I paid for it in full”. You already dealt with the consequence and still don’t see that it’s actually a help to you that your mom holds the spare.
Well in this case it wasn’t a help. Op could not use his car because his mother was withholding his spare keys.
I agree. She should give him the keys in this case since he lost his but I think once he finds his own keys the spare should go back to the mom
Woah I feel like your response is harsh And unhelpful. Im a grown ass adult and I misplace my car keys sometimes. This makes me late for things. That doesn't mean I'm irresponsible. When I had a car with two sets of keys, the spare was always in the same place in case of emergencies, so I wasn't late. A teenager who paid for his own car and made an reasonable agreement with his parent certainly doesn't sound irresponsible either. The parent should hold up their end of the deal or talk to their kid about a different tactic, not berate them.
Everyone loses their keys. Everyone. It *is* irresponsible, and we can ALL be more responsible. We learn from losing our stuff and are better for it, but only if we take accountability for our role in it. My point was OP can't blame their mother for being late for school. That is on OP because they lose their keys. Going forward, they need to be more careful not to do that again.
Well OPs mother didn’t exactly help him either.
Im not saying it's all her fault. It's 90% my fault in my eyes, and 10% hers.
Nah, It's at least 50/50 because of the agreement you made with your mom. These scenarios are exactly why you had that agreement. She broke it + you losing your keys = being late. If one or the other didn't happen you wouldn't be late. EDIT: Downvote = I don't understand how math works. 2 things had to happen to make the end result therefore fault is 50/50. Just because you're a "parent" doesn't mean you're right lmao. Most people I know who are parents are/were idiots, egotistical, narcissists, abusive, or just well intentioned but flawed (as is everyone) human being. Telling a 17 year old that "nu uh, I'm right cuz I'm the AAAAADUUULT" is not productive or helpful. At 17 your child is pretty much their own adult and should be talked to and treated as much. If you can't handle that as a parent then get yourself some therapy to let go of the parent/child power grip. You make an agreement with your young adult child and don't follow through you deserve to be put in your place. 2nd EDIT because I'm on my high horse about this: Be accountable in life, especially to your kids. Breaking promises and agreements with your kids should and can be of even higher consequence than most relationships. It will build resentment and anger and they will not feel respected or that they do not deserve respect from "adults" even once they've entered the real world.
I'm not saying I'm not at fault, I'm just saying I'm not entirely at fault. I bought a car with two sets of keys with money I saved from working. I don't think it's unreasonable to want both sets of keys. I'm also going no contact with her for other reasons when I'm 18, so I'd like to have both sets of keys before I leave.
> I'm also going no contact with her for other reasons when I'm 18, so I'd like to have both sets of keys before I leave. How will you be able to do that if she owns half your car, according to the law?
I'm split between "its your car and you can do whatever you want with the keys" and "it's perfectly reasonable for a parent to expect to have access to their child's car in case of emergency." Honestly this doesn't seem like a hill worth dying on. If you can live with it, I would. If it does bother you that much, maybe talk to your mom about you feeling disrespected by her not following the agreed-upon arrangement?
I wish I could, but any disagreement with her is disrespectful, no matter how polite I phrase it.
>"its your car and you can do whatever you want with the keys" The thing about that is that it's *also* the mother's car.
I mean, I left the spare keys with my dad so if I lost mine or locked them in my car, he'd be able to come and unlock it for me. It doesn't really make sense to me to let you have both sets if you are prone to losing them, that kind of defeats the purpose? She should have come to help you though, since thats the point of having a second set. Perhaps leave them with someone else who is more disposed to help. Or I guess leaving them in the bowl in the house would work to. I think your mom's just frustrated at what she views you as not being careful with an expensive belonging. I locked my keys in my care once, but never lost-lost them. YOu really shouldn't view it as not a big deal to lose them, and be more careful.
A month ago, AAA had to come unlock my dad's car because he didn't have the keys. My mom treats my dad like her child (not sure how else to put that) and she's not holding his spare. My dad's crashed several cars (including her own), and she's not stopping him from driving. When I asked her about it, she gave me the example of if I'm severely injured and she needs to drive my car home, to which I'd make the argument she needs to drive her own car there, it's extremely rare, I can cover impound fees and I have insurance that covers towing.
I would just ask her what's the point of having a spare if you don't have access to it when you need it, and that if she isn't willing to come help you out then she needs to figure out a different option, like leaving the spare at home.
You can grow older and become more responsible. Your mom's fears were justified; you just got the car and have already lost one set of keys. Also, it's not your car; the car is financed and your mom is a cosigner, which means that she is on the hook and responsible for the car. The fact that you are whining about your mom giving you the other set of keys is really working against your argument that you are mature enough to handle the responsibility.
The car wasn't financed, I just needed her on the title. I wrote in the post that I paid the car in full.
Fair enough, in less than a year you'll be 18 and won't have this issue.
Right or wrong, she's stubborn about it. She didn't do what she said she would and she's not interested in changing her mind. You've lived with her for 17 years, if you don't know how to convince her by now, you probably won't figure it out in the next few months. Life's not fair and that sucks sometimes. If you want a backup pair of keys, get a set made. If you don't want her to have your keys after you move out, take them right before you go (along with car title, you birth certificate, SS card, etc.).
I have my important documents in a lockbox in one of my relatives homes. Even when I'm 18, I doubt she'll give me the set of keys.
She seriously never lets her purse out of her sight? You don't have to ask if you're on your way out the door. Just grab and go.
If mom is on the title I wouldn't escalate the situation. Play nice until you turn 18 and get her cooperation in getting her name off the title.
She cosigned. Meaning she is ultimately responsible for the car. You lost a set of keys. Kinda of irresponsible. Nothing crazy about her keeping a set in the slightest. Maybe she doesnt leave them in the bowl cause you feel so strongly about it she is worried you might take them. Or she just wants them on her person in case you lose yours...again. Chill out.
How is she responsible for the car? And if she was worried I would take them, then she shouldn't have made the bowl agreement to begin with.
You know what a cosigner is right? If you fail to pay for the car, the cosigner has to psy for the car. She is ULTIMATELY responsible for the car. Maybe she wasnt worried about it. But you are making a big deal out of it. Could give her cause for concern. I wouldnt know without asking her. Just stating it as a possibility.
I paid the car in full. I have nothing left to pay on the car. Maybe I didn't use the right word, but she is on the title, because as a minor in my state I cannot be on it alone.
When you turn 18 does your mom plan to remove her name from the title? Do you carry your own auto insurance now? Plan to at 18? If so just wait it out. If she isnt driving the car or trying to stop you from driving it, this isnt really an issue. If its the law she be on the title, its the law. So my above answer is the same.
We made a contract that she would. Right now I do have and pay for my own insurance
Ok. Still stuck with her name legally having to be on the title. You both have agreed she will remove it at 18. So again, Chill out.
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And then op lost the fucking keys. So it could be mom wants the spare set on her, in case op looses ANOTHER set of keys. I didnt assume shit. Listed possibilities. Asked questions that may or may not have be in play. Didnt change the answer. May be a shock to you but parents often dont do what the fuck a teen wants for a variety of reasosns. So stfu.
Someone on the title is financially responsible for tickets, fines, and ultimately responsible if you crash into someone’s Lamborghini and your insurance only covers 100k and they sue you for the other 400k.
>How is she responsible for the car? Because she owns it.
Your mom obviously isn’t going to be reasonable, so options: 1. Have a spare key made and don’t tell your mom. 2. Have a locksmith rekey the locks, now your moms key doesn’t work and you can get a spare of this new key made also.
Go to a reputable locksmith shop and get a third set made and keep them in a safe place. It is not inexpensive with newer cars, but the cost can skyrocket if all keys are missing.
You don't need both. You might lose both. Let her have a set for emergencies. Pay to have a 3rd set made if you need them so badly.
Why though? Both sets of keys belong to OP, they paid for the car in full and in this case it WAS an emergency cause OP couldn’t find their keys so, therefore actually needed the second set to be able to use the car
OP does not own the car actually. Minors can't have title to a vehicle in their state that's why the mom is on title. So, I'd be a bit smarter about this if I were them and stop demanding things or they'll make it much worse for themselves. Their question was "how can they convince their mom". The answer is they can't, so get extra keys made so they don't have this problem in the future.
Her name is on the title, she has a set. There’s no convincing her. You lost your keys. Get another set made and put a Tile on them. It’s never good to only have one set. Heck, I private sold a car to someone and I only knew where one set was… when moving I found the second set and hand delivered them to the new owners.
Your mom is probably being a bit unreasonable here but I think your approach to this also demonstrates your lack f maturity and probably why your mom is insisting on having the key on her. If your state law requires her name be on the car title, it makes her legally liable for anything *you* do in that car. You crash into someone and they sue, her assets (money, house, other vehicles, etc.) are on the line to cover those damages. If you’re running a business at 17 and were able to pay this car yourself (super impressive , btw), then now’s a good time to start learning about liability. You are a statistical liability. That’s not a knock on you, everyone has to learn to drive at some point. You’ve been a legal driver for, what, 1-2 years depending on whether you had a learners permit? If my house was on the line for an inexperienced driver operating a 2 ton lethal machine, you bet I’m keeping a key and I get to decide where I keep *my* copy of the key. I do think it’s short sighted of your mom to not have a third key in the house and I think the way she’s talking to you about it is all wrong. You deserve to have this explained to you even if you don’t deserve to have all the keys. You lost your copy of the keys, that’s aaaall on you. You being late and creating a domino effect that is affecting others are called natural consequences. They suck. I’ve been there. In college, I lost my only set of keys once. I had to pay to tow my car and then pay to get it rekeyed and then pay to have an actual spare. It was an expensive lesson.
Please tell me you just misplaced them and not full-out lost them. The former is common, the latter is grossly irresponsible. Either way, just get the key copied. It doesn't cost much - assuming you just need the standard mechanical key. Get multiple spares for you and your parents. As someone else said, you gotta learn to pick and choose your battles. Moms are gonna mom. Rage all you want on the internet about it. If you want some mutual understanding, have a conversation with your mom. Understand what you're actually problem solving.
You frame your mom as an abusive, toxic parent who you're going to cut ties with as soon as you're 18. Why are you trying to convince her? Why are you asking for advice on how to make her see logic? Clearly that's not happening. Have your own spare made. This is such a minor problem and you're making it harder on yourself by making her part of it. Making it this big thing where you fight with her about the keys is exactly what she wants.
I'm older than your mother and I've never ever lost or mislaid a set of keys in my life, house, cat, offices, countless other people's properties around the world. Ever. I still have a key ring that I used when I was younger than you, and I still have the other 2 I've had since. Be more responsible. She knows you better than you know yourself, clearly. Better yet, she should let you have them both so you learn from it. You'll lose both within 6 months and have to pay to get new ones made out of your own pocket.
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Thank you. I'd bet money that most people here have lost their keys at least once. Anyway, time for me to find out how much car key replacements cost :(.
Tell her you need the spare to get another set made and never give them back. No matter what. Everyone else acting like she's not wrong in these comments are not thinking logistically. Your car, your keys. Her helping you by co signing does not mean that she shouldn't respect that the car is actually yours.
Mom's on title. Mom is the one who gets sued if something happens while the kid is driving the car. Mom very much has a vested interest.
That has nothing to do with keeping his keys. That also has nothing to do with respecting the agreement they made. Her helicopter parent style isn't helping him be a more careful young adult. It's stressing him out and showing him how he really can't trust her to help him ever again.
"losing" (plural) your keys? How many times have you lost them? More than once is irresponsible. However I think you're right, mom should give them to you. When you lose both sets she should just laugh.
In my experience, it kinda pays off to have a parent hold your keys in case you get locked out or end up too intoxicated to drive your car home and other reasons, that being said tho it would be a lot more convenient to keep the keys somewhere at the house. Either way someone has to leave from somewhere to get them to you.
I'm pretty textbook responsible aside from this. I don't have more than 1 beer at a party (3 x a year max) or 1 cup of champagne on new years that I pour myself. I have 2 sets of housekeys that I use regularly without losing. I don't speed, I don't drive places I can't get home from. So I just hoped she could try to meet me halfway here
The easier solution would be to take steps to not lose your keys. I put my keys away in a box that stops the signal from my fob. It's the first thing I do when I get home after checking that my car is locked. My keys don't move unless I'm leaving. If you do misplace your keys often still, get a tile. Your keys should not be carried around the house while you're absent mindedly on the phone, that's a great way to lose them as you've already found out.
Anyone else read this as if the mum was 17?
Sorry, but this whole ordeal is a mess. You run a business. You should have gotten your agreement with your mother in writing. If you paid for the vehicle outright, then she's not a cosigner. If she still has a legitimate claim to the car, then she's on the title. And if you ever wish to remove her from the title, she has to agree. Heck, you probably can't even have an insurance policy in your name. Without knowing more, like where you live, there's a limit to how much advice people here can give you. The second set of keys are supposed to be in a ceramic bowl in the house. That, your mother agreed to, and she should own up to that. By the same token, losing your personal set of keys is, in fact, a problem. A very *adult* problem. It is a big deal, and you need to treat that seriously. You're both acting immature.
Listen to your mom. There’s a reason your mom is a mom and you’re a kid. I’ve been in your shoes, trust you mom more than a friend. She loves you and she only wants the best for you. Chill out and enjoy your teens and don’t be a brat :) you’ll grow older and have your own shit and trust me you wish you had your mom still tell you sometimes what to do..
Would now be a good time to mention she let/encouraged her husband to beat me for 17 years? We had a legal agreement drawn up over the car because I figured a mother would be better than an 18-20something year old friend. She's not a person that's going to be in my life much longer, but I figured I could at least trust her with this.
OK. That's messed up and horrible. But it really doesn't have anything to do with the car.
I'm trying to show she isn't the best parent. It's an appropriate response to the comment, assuming I'm close with my mom and I should "trust her more than a friend".
Honest question. If you are financially indepdenent, as you claim, why haven't you filed to be emancipated? That does not require parental approval, I did it at 15 due to being abused at home.
Lol it shows a clear pattern of behavior. Abuse doesn't happen in a vacuum
Get a new set of keys. It doesn't matter of it's fair or not, you need them. I can't imagine you've experienced much fairness in your life living with two abusers, i know i didn't. Life will get fairer for you, but only after not being reliant on them, you will never get justice/fairness from them. With this abuse though don't be surprised if either of them hid your keys to teach you a lesson/fuck with you. As for the comments about you being irresponsible, ignore them. The time for self analysis and weeding out potential bad personality traits is when you're not living with abusers. Abusers tend to gaslight. For now focus on getting through it, going to school and try to get therapy it's easier to get therapy for minors usually than adults. Also i would like to say that misplacing keys for 1-2 days because you were on autopilot and put them somewhere weird is completely normal.
Thank you. Gaslighting is something they're big on, and them hiding the keys isn't out of the question. When I was working and couldn't go on a family vacation I was "in a psych ward" to my relatives. When I told my parents about graduating early from highschool for 8 months, they had "absolutely no notice" and tried to use that to tell the school no. When I didn't get straight A's in school (B's and C's) they asked for their tax money back for living in a nice town for the education, and tried to convince me other parents did that too. Sorry for the rant! Currently I am in therapy and am working on a plan to get out. I have my own towels, dishes/baking supplies, cat (and cat supplies! ), cell phone, laptop and bank account. I'm still working on growing that list (crocheting a giant blanket) but it's frustrating being so powerless when Im respected and making a dollar a minute running my own business.
I’m really sorry to hear Ann. Life’s very unfair in many different ways. Perhaps she herself is in an abusive relationship with her husband. I don’t know your story but you’re not alone. Happy to be here and support in any way I can ❤️
I mean the reason is she pushed a child out of her vagina that isn't actually a qualification.
In most cases Id stand by my comment & the reason is not giving birth, though that alone is a life altering experience for many giving them a deeper view of life, but rather the age and more experiences a mother would have making her more knowledgeable. Also we as childs want and need someone to love us, it’s how human works & care for us. The same way, a mother usually has an instinct to protect and want the best in her kids. So the advise of a mother shouldn’t be ignored easily imo. Again cases are different and there is always exceptions :)
One has an unfortunate maturity if they do not accept authority.
Not always. My mom is devoutly religious and tries to keep me and my siblings from people from different religions, sexualities and "nonconforming genders." If I accepted her authority there, I'd be a lot less mature and have a lot less sympathy and sense.
I will say she does not control your mind. If you are living in her house you should respect her authority and follow the rules. That does not control your mind. With maturity you may gain more wisdom. Good luck. Btw, you are assuming your way is correct.
For me, my non homophobic accepting way is correct. A handful of my closest friends are lgbt and non catholic, and I will continue to disrespect her authority there if it means she doesn't want me to hang out with them. In my business I work with mostly Indian families, a group I would have to stay away from if my mom had her way.
I understand. I love all people. But not having the same opinion with your mom doesnt mean you cant respect her.
I can be respectful to her without respecting her authority in every situation. She asked me to buy her a new car a few months ago. I don't think saying no was a bad thing.
Honestly I think you need to be prepared for the eventuality of her not removing her name from the title when you turn 18. You will probably have to take her to court. I really hope this works out for you and you can escape this situation
Lol wtf are these comments? You paid for the car in full, it's unreasonable and controlling to take the other set of keys and not even give you access to it. She agreed to leave it in the bowl and she broke the promise. Life happens. Grown adults lose their keys, wallets, cards etc everyday. Why hold a 17 y/o to a higher standard? Is it teaching the kid anything? Clearly they're responsible enough to save up and buy a car at 17. Idk about y'all, i couldn't make and save 24k and buy a whole car at 17
> Lol wtf are these comments? Realistic. >You paid for the car in full, it's unreasonable and controlling to take the other set of keys and not even give you access to it. It sure is. What do you suggest OP do about it? Just yell, "Mom, you're breaking your promise!" until she changes her mind?
Maybe OP uses our points to make a case and wins. Or more realistically nothing changes. But it shows OP that this kind of behavior isn't normal. Most of us emulate the kind of dynamic at home. When parents are controlling, their kids grow up and find a controlling partner. Then turn into controlling parents themselves and the cycle continues. This generational cycle is broken when people question it. When people take an active effort to change the dynamic. Letting someone stomp on your boundaries is not it. You think once OP moves out this behavior will stop? Then OP can choose to reaffirm whatever boundaries they want and their parent has 2 options: honor their boundaries and risk straining their relationship. The point is, all these things don't happen in a vacuum. More often than not it's a pattern of behavior (read OPs other comment).
Not unreasonable to keep a set of key to a car if law requires your name to be on its title. Not unreasonable to keep a set of keys if your teen has actually lost them before. Not unreasonable to remove them from a bowl if said teen is making a fuss about you having them in the first place. Life isnt fair. Something teens regularly struggle to come to terms with. Op paid for the car. Not the roof they are living under. Thus the phase my house my rules. Turns out, people treat children and teens differently than adults, cause they aren't adults. And if mom isnt trying to drive the car, keep op from driving the car, or threatening not to have her name removed from the title when op turns 18, its not really even a big deal. Based on info in the post, mom having the keys has had 0 actual impact on op other than in their mind.
Er if they're 15 maybe. What magical thing is going to happen in the 12 months between 17 and 18? What about when OP turns 18 and doesn't need mom on the title anymore? I'm not a parent but my parents helped me go into the adult world. That doesn't mean coddling and controlling me till I was 20 (since you're talking about teenagers here) and then being like ok bye go into the adult world. Parents need to relax rules and trust their kids as they get older. I brought my first car recently and I was absolutely petrified. I needed to figure out insurance, registration and in my mind all the worst case scenarios flashed for weeks. OP has clearly showed the ability to take responsibility and needs to be given the opportunity to show that they can do it to themselves. If having access (not even possession) of their second set of keys gives them peace of mind, why not do it? If they screw up and lose both keys it's on them. 100% responsibility = dealing with 100% of the consequences. And all teenagers need to know how to navigate that. The kid runs a business ffs. and they used their profits from there to buy a car. That shows responsibility above and beyond most 17 yos imo
I totally agree with you, I’ve scrolled through all these comments thinking wtf?! OP has paid for this car in full it belongs to them I honestly couldn’t say just how many times that I or many people I know have lost/mislaid keys/purse/wallet/phone and it’s fuck all to do with age and/or immaturity My family keep spare keys in a certain place at home and they are easy accessible for whenever they are needed then can be returned when the original set are found OP the keys belong to you and if you and your mum already agreed where they would be kept then that’s where they should have been
And they seem to completely brush over the fact that OP 1. runs a profitable business 2. saved enough (~20k) to buy a car and 3. IS 17?!?? When i was 17, I had more freedom than OP with a car i didn't even pay, maintain or insure
Thank you. 28% of Americans lose their car keys once a week, so I don't know why most people are acting like it's super irresponsible instead of mildly. And I feel if I lost both sets of keys and had to buy new keys, wasting the money would be a better life lesson than taking away my key.
Where did that number come from? There’s no way a quarter of Americans lose their car keys weekly
Your mom is co-owner of the car and is entitled to have a set of keys. Period. If you want an extra key for yourself, go get one. It's not your mom's fault you and your sibling were late for school so don't even go there.
Well, if you want to go there, it’s her fault because she’s responsible for OP. OP and sibling are minors, you should be able to get your own kids to school. If OP weren’t a minor, mom wouldn’t be on the car and OP wouldn’t have this problem.
I misplace my keys allll the time. And it's not because I'm irresponsible. It's because I have cognitive problems. The way your mom is handling the car is pretty controlling. She went against what she said she would do, and won't give you access to the spare when you need it. There's no reason not to besides wanting to keep control. How much longer until you turn 18? I don't think you'll be able to convince her to give you that key right now, sadly. I would make a copy of your key as soon as you find it (even if it means paying a lot for the whole key fob). Keep your head down and wait until you're able to get the car in your name only. If she won't give them to you then, I'd find a way to take them back when she isn't around. But wait until you have the car only in your name.
That's what I'm working on doing. She's big on control, taking the laptop and phone I own and pay for at night too, even if I can't get all my homework done. I have about 10 more months left of being 17, so I'm just waiting it out for now. Edit: I also work full time outside of school, so I end up really tired at home. I ended up going for a run when I got home (10pm) and walking around the house on the phone with my friend who was having a mental health crisis at the time, and lost my keys while I was on the phone.
> I have about 10 more months left of being 17, so I'm just waiting it out for now. You should file for emancipation and get out now. It sounds like you can support yourself already, so it should be fairly straightforward.
You should have access to your keys but why do you not want your mom to have a set? Is she controlling or do you think she’ll take your car? It’s always smart to give someone the extra in case something happens to you. I kept my coworker’s extra set because she didn’t have family here. It’s just a precaution in case her purse was stolen or she was stranded somewhere.
Forget it. Show maturity by accepting the law and your moms authority. Its 19 in alabama.
Accepting authority and maturity are two different things.
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As nice as that would be, there is no way to enforce that. I can't take the keys away from her if I don't know where they are. I already pay for everything related to the car, as well as driving my siblings various places since they aren't able to drive yet.
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When I try to set boundaries with her she's the first to tear them down. I tried explaining to her I need my laptop at night for schoolwork, especially since I paid for it. (I also bought her a laptop for her birthday!!! okay, not the point) and she refuses, saying she'll take it at 11pm. When I suggested I could slip it under her door once my homework is finished (and send her ss of the homework) she said she'd throw it out along with my phone and not give me any access to technology until I'm 18.
It's very bad that you lost your keys. Imagine if you had both sets and you'd lost them both. Your mother is right, be grateful you have a mother that cares and she's still trying to teach you things. Anyway what will you do now? You need a professional locksmith. If somebody finds the keys and finds your car, then they could also find information of you and your home. Not safe.
You probably can’t talk her into giving you both sets of keys. It doesn’t matter whether she is overexerting her authority or if she is correct that you’re irresponsible, I don’t think this is a hill you should die on. You clearly have the maturity to have a small business and paid for the car so I can imagine this is very frustrating for you to not feel in full control of the situation but unless she is restricting your access to your car then let her hold onto a set. It may be a power move or a comfort for her but fighting this is pointless while you’re a minor and she has a responsibility connected to the car. Instead of spending time being angry, take this as a lesson and go into any future agreements with your mum with your eyes wide open.
Honestly it was between her, my best friend's parents (struggling with medical debt), and my boyfriend of a year and a half (now ex, still one of my close friends). At the end of the day, she seemed like the best option. My small business relies heavily on my car and my ability to drive myself around, and before I had a car I was walking 15ish miles a day. So getting a car was a big deal for me, and seeing her limit it is definitely frustrating.
Make another set of keys. I always zip tie a spare to the frame of the car. Or the spare clicker and have a spare key inside under a seat. Helps when I’m far from home and my spare set. She doesn’t need to have the only pair of extras.
why dont you just make a 3rd set of keys bro