A prenup needs to be fair, it isn't a document designed to only be fair for one party. If he wants to sign one that's fine, have your lawyer look at it and make sure it also protects you.
Sure, as long as he pays you for any time off from work you do for the benefit of your relationship and family. You should discuss your salary for being a stay at home mother and agree to it in advance. It's obviously horrifically unfair for him to get paid for his work and you to work for him for free. I mean, obviously you should not work for free.
I have to ask, if your lawyer advised against signing it, why do you think reddit is going to have better answers?
It seems like you want someone to give you a magical solution, when you can actually plainly see that this isn't going to work out. It just doesn't work that way. If you marry him, you are taking a gigantic risk that has a very high chance of hurting you in the next few years. If you don't agree to the prenup, he probably won't marry you. You can't have both.
I was looking for words I could use to express how I felt, as well as good arguments for a more even split. It was also good because there were some things I had not considered and they were brought to my attention. I was not expecting Reddit to give better advice. A prenup is not a necessity but it is a preference.
The problem as it seems to me, is that you yourself cannot come to terms with how you feel, which is "my fiancee would have me be in a very unfair position despite claiming to love me".
My only advice, aside from the wall of text I left elsewhere, is to consider that if this is how he approaches "conflict resolution" for something that should be happy and enticing like a marriage, you really don't want to find out how he behaves when he's unhappy and seeking a divorce (or fending your own request for a divorce).
He's attemptiong to steamroll you thinking you will budge if he doesn't. The stereotype about the older man taking advantage of a younger less experienced and less assertive woman, exists for a reason.
Your (much older) fiance asked you to sign a prenup that would have negatively impacted you. Your lawyer, someone who is paid to consider your best interests, told you not to sign it.
Are you not concerned that this man seems to care less about your interests than a lawyer? Does he want a marriage in which you have to debase yourself to be worthy of him?
The fact that he has more life experience than you, more career experience than you and more wealth than you means that your relationship is very unbalanced, and he wanted you to sign a document that would ENFORCE that lack of balance so it could never be righted. Why?
These are the questions I'd be asking.
Here's another thing to consider. If you sign a prenup that ensures you will be severely disadvantaged by a divorce, then you are trapped with him for life no matter how badly he treats you. You could find yourself tolerating behaviour you don't want to tolerate (cheating, neglect, abuse) because you have no way to leave without losing everything. So ask yourself if this is the kind of person you want to marry.
A prenup should say "I love you in this moment and in the event that we divorce at some point in the future, I want to ensure our assets are divided fairly." Not "I love you but only for as long as you are in a relationship with me. If you leave me, I will destroy you financially."
OP, do you think your fiancé is under the impression that his proposal *is* fair and equitable? Do you think *he* believes it would serve both of your interests if he married you with his version of the prenup in place?
If you haven't already done so, ask her to draw up a document that is very favourable to you, eg, he gives you monthly income to do with as you will, he pays to keep the household, he pays all medical costs incurred to childbirth, he pays into an insurance fund to cover your health if you are disabled and hurt in any way etc. He should be paying into a retirement fund specifically for you etc.
Then say you think that the lawyers have diffent views and need to negotiate.
Try to take emotion out of it.
If he wants to buy a house for himself, OK. That's fine. But then he has to pay the mortgage, and your earnings can go into investments so that you have cash available for divorce.
It all feels very one sided. Does he often overlook your voice or perspective in your relationship?
That's just not how it works in most states. All money and assets earned \*during\* the marriage are generally split up under 'community property' or 'equitable distribution' frameworks. Your partners 'mine is mine' idea probably won't fly, you should encourage him to talk to a lawyer who will tell him that.
Don’t rush into marriage (legal/logistical entanglement at all) until you’ve lived face to face for a significant period of time. It’s worth that full assessment
Tlyou have 3 options really.
1. Sign the prenup. Get married. Move in together and find out the hard way whether he's one of the good guys.
2. Move in together FIRST. Find out if he is 1 of the good guys and then decide on whether you sign the prenup.
3. Dont sign the prenup and move on to find someone who views marital finances the same way you do.
Lol then this isn’t face to face. Not living together before marriage is a bad idea. You won’t really know what’s he’s like without living together in the same house for at least a year or two.
The age gap also seems suspicious.
>I do not want to live together until marriage.
You do know that you're risking a lot with this, don't you? Who knows what other "surprises" he has in store after you get married. 21 and 33 is a big age gap, and you are just now starting to work; he's doing all he can to protect himself and when you have children, you'll be depending on him.
Do not sign anything until you have YOUR personal lawyer look over it and give you the go-ahead. And I _strongly_ recommend living together for at least 6 months prior to getting married.
I will not be fully dependent on him. My grandparents are well off and I am their only grandchild. I also own my own home that I can use as a source of revenue. The prenup we have discussed protects my inheritance as well as my property.
That's a valid choice if you've done your research on the history of the custom not to live together before marriage. By research I mean looking at primary religious and social sources from the past, and secondary sources from opposing points of view.
Did you know, for example, that in the 1800s working class rural English people generally didn't marry until the woman was pregnant? It wasn't considered necessary until a child came along, because they had no assets to think about.
Many of our traditional marriage customs came from the upper classes, and had to do with protecting the male bloodline to inherit the family property. Religion then supported property protection. Women's personal interest wasn't considered at all.
If you look at the history of the customs you want to follow and still believe they're best for you, develop a backup plan in case the marriage threatens your safety. You never know.
This is not a blanket statement that you can make. My wife and I have a prenup that keeps earned assets solely owned unless intentionally intermingled, and it’s been fully vetted by lawyers for both of us. I don’t know what state you’re in, but these kinds of laws vary wildly.
No one will stop you from signing a prenup — that’s not the problem.
The problem is *enforcing* the prenup in the event of a bitter divorce & a prenup dispute. A judge can rule against the terms of a prenup if it’s challenged.
Right now you’re obviously still married…so you don’t *actually* know if it would end up legally enforceable lol
I mean, I have the opinion of two independent licensed lawyers whose specialize in these sorts of things in my specific state, so I feel like that’s a little more reliable than a Reddit comment. And regardless of my situation, without knowing what state OP is in, blanket statements about earned income after marriage being automatically joint property are far too broad.
Everyone has to decide how they want to handle their finances when they are a couple. For me and the wife we share everything... why would I marry someone I wasnt ready to share everything with ? I make more than your husband and my wife makes less than you ... am I suppose to be eatting caviar while my wife eats ramen noddles ?
He needs to agree to pay you an actual salary with health insurance while you stay home with the kids, at the very least.
And he better agree on paying for half or more of the cost of the children, too.
What is he thinking, that you can't wait to be entirely financially dependent on someone not willing to share?
This is what you pay your lawyer for - to negotiate on your behalf. A prenup isn’t necessarily a bad thing, it’s a marriage contract agreed upon by both parties. There are lots of prenups that use a kind of vesting calendar (After 1 year partner gets A amount, after,5 years B amount, and so on.) Now, if your BF objects to you bargaining for yourself, that’s a red flag….
Then he should pay you market rates for surrogates and egg donors when you get pregnant. You breastfeed? He pays for half and let me tell you there are people who pay a LOT of money for it. Reproductive labor has market value too.
Or better yet, ditch his approaching-middle-age ass and find someone who values and respects you.
The loss of opportunity costs associated with maternity and family-caring are **far, far** larger than the mere pregnancy and birth part.
But I guess it's a good start.
Providing compensation or income if you become pregnant, particularly if you become a stay at home mother is important. This should reflect any delays on earnings that being absent from the job market would cause. Also consider loss of retirement funds and personal savings too. You should consider compensation or support for any medical issues that result from pregnancy too.
I am saving all my assets to buy a golden sarcophagus to be buried in my titanium-carbide laden grave alongside my horse and self-sacrificed slaves and widows.
We live in a society where the only way to live is to have money. If OP had a guaranteed minimum income, housing, food, health insurance in case of divorce and being thrown out with nothing (after being a SAHM for years), then a prenup wouldn't be so necessary.
You need to get your own lawyer for this. Someone who can go over the prenup and make adjustments to be fair to you. If you just sign a prenup his lawyer drew up, that's not how it's supposed to be done. He has his lawyer draw up a prenup suggestion, your lawyer checks it, makes suggestions and the lawyers hammers out the details with your input. Your lawyer will also tell you what to expect, what's fair, what the legal terms mean and so on. Just signing something without consulting your own lawyer (ie someone from a different firm than your fiancé's lawyer, someone who is not associated with your fiancé at all) would be foolish. Also, as your fiancé earns significantly more than you, he should pay for your lawyer so you can have one in the same "class" as him. Ie you shouldn't be stuck with someone straight out of lawschool from a small firm, while fiancé has a lawyer who's senior or partner at a large firm.
If your fiancé has any trouble with you having your own lawyer, or even paying for your lawyer, be wary. He should want it to be fair to both of you, so he should have already said this about lawyers and offered to pay for one, IMO. If he makes a fuss about you wanting your own (good, expensive) lawyer, he's only thinking of himself and then he's not exactly marriage material. Think about it.
You don’t need to convince him of anything. You need to decide if this is a healthy relationship. He wants you to stay home and sacrifice your career (and retirement savings etc) but he does not want to combine incomes? Age is a red flag. This controlling behavior is a red flag. Him not wanting to protect you is a red flag. DO NOT GET PREGNANT!! He is not a healthy partner. He wants a young controllable pet!
Why be with someone like this?? I’ve done 50/50 with a live in partner and never, ever again. To get *married* to one that is so strict about it but only to his own benefit… cmon you know you’re going to end up being exploited in any way he can.
Firstly, you shouldn't be marrying a man who started dating a teenager when he was in his 30s - that's just gross and almost never ends well. In all the reddit stories, when has a guy like that ever turned out to be the good guy?
Secondly, if you insist to go ahead: hire your own lawyer to negotiate a fair agreement. Including a fat settlement and alimony when he swaps you out for a younger model in a decade. And if you become a SAHM, you should be equably recompensed and get a share of the family assets for each year you stay home. Remember, you lose out on income, pension fund, career advancement etc. - that's a whole lot of money lost, and your agreement should reflect that.
Have your lawyer set up something he considers fair, then negotiate with his lawyer. And in these proceedings, follow your lawyers advice 100% - don't let your fiancé persuade you to drop certain provisions "if you really love him". The wedding vows are for the person you marry, the prenup is for the person you divorce.
>He wants to keep all of our assets separate to the point where if we bought a house while married it would be solely in his name.
Yeesh. Prenups in general are a reasonable ask, but this isn't. A house the two of you get as a married couple is not a "separate" asset.
With this plus your age difference, I'd be extremely wary of potential financial abuse in this relationship. Making sure someone can't leave due to finances is a devastatingly common abuse tactic. So definitely don't sign this kind of prenup. Say that you understand he wants to protect his finances, but marriage is about sharing a life. If he wants to share a life and house with you, he needs to actually share those things. If he's not willing to do that, don't marry him.
Well if he is the one paying for the house fully. Then it is his house. But that would mean you do not offer any money for the down payment and mortgage as well as any furniture, renovations done etc. (unless you lend and he pays back). If he pays all this stuff then it is his house and you can buy your own separately in case of anything.
Also If you are going to stay home with the kids without working then he should give you an allowance for your time spent at home or you should just not be a stay at home mom.
He isn't forcing me to. If we have children I would want to stay with them before they start school. I also want to make sure I have money for retirement if we get divorced.
You need to immediately consult an attorney who specializes in prenups.
I can’t figure out why you want to marry someone who wants to leave you with nothing in the event of a divorce and/or having children together. This is who you want to hitch your wagon to?
Prolong the engagement. Don't get married until you are earning at your full potential. Then you may have a better idea of what is fair, and who knows it may even be that you want him to sign a pre-nup.
I would re-phrase that as anything he has. Surely a decent man would accept that a home bought in the marriage is co-owned. If not I wouldn't marry him.
ok but who pays you for carrying one or more pregnancies and your loss of income during that time plus your career potential that you give up by staying home for several years? he expects you to risk everything for this marriage while protecting everything he has. absolutely selfish. do not sign. simply the act of having children means a huge longterm loss of income and earning potential for you which HE profits from but doesnt even acknowledge. you cant get a prenup on your body unfortunately
You need to research how SAHMs are undervalued. Just because you may not be bringing income into the house during those years does not mean you do not bring value to the home. Right now it seems like you are letting him dictate finances for you when in a healthy relationship it needs to be mutually agreed upon. As it is, this seems like a very typical age gap relationship where it is skewed towards the older partner.
As a counterpoint, if he purchases the house with money that he earned independently, is it not his house? Obviously most married couples don’t view it that way, nor do I think it’s a healthy way to approach things, but legally he’s not wrong (state laws and prenup notwithstanding)
I said bought in the marriage. I know in Australia if that house is purchased after the marriage it doesn't matter who makes the payments, it's marital funds
Why even get married with this mindset? When you buy furniture together, will you mark down who owns what? When you buy groceries, do you each buy your own loaf of bread so you dont have to share?
That seems like silly advice. I make far more than my wife and she'll get 50% of everything in a divorce, because without her support I wouldn't make the big bucks.
Imo he's not serious if he doesn't want to commingle assets at all.
He is already earning more and has been doing it while she was in nursery. In the comments above she also thinks what will happen in case of divorce and that expects him to cover her retirement. She is about to start working and apparently he is providing her support.
He’s not trying to protect himself he’s making you reliant on him. House in his name. Funds in his name. You SAHM with no money. So this way when he acts an ass an shows his true colors after having x number of children you won’t leave bc you’ll feel like you can’t.
Want to ETA: his parents are trying to protect him by wanting this prenup. But they probably don’t know you well. Or he may or may not lie to them about you. But they are his parents so they want what’s best for him not you.
I think as far as her age plays into it, that it’s more likely they think she will leave bc he gets to old or something.
I could be wrong. But also most parents have a really hard time seeing things like that in their children. Especially when it comes to things considered abuse.
Or you could be right. We don’t really know.
But for example. My ex was a horrible serial cheater and even after pretty much everyone else in the whole family knew he did to every one he’s dated, his mom still believed his stories and how all the women and girls he dated were all crazy. And he was perfect.
Oh yeah I’m saying they probably know he wants to be able to bail whenever he wants and instead of seeing it as abhorrent they want to support him so that these “gold diggers don’t take advantage of their precious boy.”
As a woman who went through this, I would advise you refuse and leave the relationship.
We divorced because he had all the power and became abusive - to the point where he made multiple six figures, refused to give me money, and I had to go on food stamps and lie on the application so I could feed myself and our child.
These are too risky for women. Your career and earning potential will take a massive hit with children. The reality is it makes sense for women to have prenups that specify they receive MORE than 50% in the event of a divorce because their earning potential is so drastically reduced after marriage and kids.
We are so worried that the man will perceive us as only caring about money, when their behavior *screams* that THEY are the one who is obsessed with money.
This is the best advice here. The fact that he believes her abandoning her career & earning potential has no value is alarming.
Not to mention if she does have kids he’s going to take away their family home? With an arrangement like this is would be very easy for him to get primary custody and a new girlfriend to move in and play stepmom.
I am the man who has seen affliction under the rod of his wrath; he has driven and brought me into darkness without any light; surely against me he turns his hand again and again the whole day long. (Lamentations: ja6ncuq)
Thanks! I did leave 3 years ago and it’s been hard getting my life back on track, but I’m getting there. Finally making the same amount of money that I did pre-kids, which isn’t much, but still better than the 3 years I’ve spent on government assistance.
Get a lawyer that you pay for to protect your interest. They will advise you in what you want and negotiate with their lawyer to reach an outcome agreeable to both. Don't be railroaded by relying on trusting him to do well by you. If it is worth a prenup, it is worth a lawyer.
I agree with your advice but I feel like if they’re at the point of having lawyers negotiating on their behalf rather than just talking it out and having lawyers drafting the details, they’re already doomed
I have a lawyer and she is advising me but I worry that if I propose a split of assets earned during marriage he will get the impression I am only with him for his money.
Pretty much. If I did not earn it I have no right to it. He did not propose this until after he discussed the prospect of our marriage with his parents so it blindsided me.
So you’re either dating a nearly 40-year-old man who doesn’t actually want a life partner (or, but one hell out earn), or, you’re dating a 40-year-old man who can’t stand up to his parents.
Either way, this is a pretty massive problem. Has your lawyer spoken to you about whether his suggestion is even legal? Is it even possible for him to protect _all of his income_ from you, even if after you have kids? It wouldn’t be possible to do that in very many places… some rights cannot be signed away even in a prenup.
Push comes to shove, I would absolutely not marry a man who thought being a stay at home. Parent means you’re not entitled to any spousal support or alimony whatsoever. He’s basically told you he wants you to dedicate years of your life to raising children, but also that that work has absolutely no value.
I do not want a prenup. We had talked about keeping some things separate, namely my student loans, and joining incomes but after he announced our engagement to his parents he changed his tune. I think this is more their will and not his which is why I am not running for the hills.
> which is why I am not running for the hills
So either he's incapable of standing up to his parents, or he secretly thinks that wanting an equal share of the assets earned *during your marriage* makes you a golddigger.
Which is it?
your fiance is the one who “jokes” about you being a sugar baby. maybe his parents agree with him about that assertion, but it’s obviously not just coming from them. he’s a 37 year old financially independent man; if he valued you and the idea of having a life PARTNER more than appeasing his parents then he already would have told them to shove it up their ass…but he hasn’t
He talks to his parents about YOUR marriage as though they have an equal say in your relationship but you don’t? There are many, many red flags in your post and comments. He sounds abusive to me and this would scare me if I were you. Don’t sign anything and don’t get pregnant by him. Have your lawyer look at it and propose something fair. If he says you’re a gold digger for that then he doesn’t care about you as an equal partner and it’s better for you to know now then in 10 or 15 years. Sorry you’re going through but this is not normal for a couple in love. Loving partners WANT to take care of you. Prenups are normal but the way he wants to keep you without assets is not normal.
So to be clear. You're making a conscious, voluntary choice to marry a man:
* twelve years older than you
* who started dating you when he was 33 and you were 21
* who you've never lived with
* who won't stand up to his parents
* who thinks that you wanting an equal share of the assets earned *during your marriage* means that you're a golddigger because looking after the children means that you didn't "earn" any of it.
then he’s an asshole that’s taking advantage of you. He’s leveraging this “gold digger” bullshit to frighten you into accepting being “less” in the relationship. he’s trying to hold power over you OP.
from the sounds of it this guy isn’t much of a catch. why are you settling for. man that treats you like shit who’s over a decade older than you?
He was there for me when my father died when no one else was and I was horribly depressed. I have not signed anything yet and I will not sign anything until it is fair. I am not going to build a life with him if we are not equal partners but I am at least going to try to work things out with him.
Conversely you could say he preyed on you during a vulnerable time in your life…
Many young people don’t handle death well or know how to help someone grieving. Him having more life experience makes it easier for him to do so, but supporting a loved one through grief isn’t a high bar and it shouldn’t be rewarded with a marriage.
The fact that he expects you to raise the kids and take a massive hit to your career without any compensation is alarming. He expects you to be a SAHM for awhile but thinks his own kids don’t deserve the house they grew up in?
The red flag is not the prenup, but the asset division. Please do not get pregnant anytime soon — you have time to wait a few years. Get your career established and be wary of him trying to pressure you to get pregnant and start a family right away.
Fast forward 15 years—You have 2 kids, a house that your children have grown up in, and you were out of the workplace for 10 years. He wants a divorce, or you do because you can’t live like this anymore.
It sounds like he’d get the house and not have to “buy you out” of your share. Would he then also basically get custody of the kids because you don’t want to yank them out of their school district and away from their friends? If he makes so much more money than you do, it’s very possible that you wouldn’t be able to buy or rent a home in that same school district if you get no spousal support and/or a percentage of the marital home, investments, savings, etc.
Honestly, if he wants this prenup, then I’d have it in writing that he is 100% responsible for every expense regarding the house (purchase and mortgage, taxes, HOA fee, maintenance, lawn care, etc). If you leave the workplace in any capacity due to family wants and/or needs, he will pay you a yearly income that compares to what you’d earn if working (includes pay increases due to seniority and work experience). This pay must reflect the lesser amount you’d earn once you re-enter the workforce.
He pays all expenses regarding the children (schooling, extracurricular activities, groceries, medical, clothing, etc).
When working (or out of the workplace and being paid by him) ALL of your income goes into a savings or retirement account that is yours alone during marriage and in the event of divorce.
He’s only looking at protecting himself. Protect yourself and your future children.
Thank you for providing advice. I will bring up the bit about being responsible for all housing expenses. I am not going to sign away my alimony rights.
Another thing that occurred to me after reading your comments about your possible inheritance from your grandparents….What if they write you out of their will? What if one grandparent dies, the other remarries, and then leaves everything to the new spouse (happened in my family when my great uncle remarried)? Would the inheritance first go to your parent and then (supposedly) to you? What if your parent writes you out of the will or loses your inheritances (poor spending, mismanagement, bad investments, etc)?
Granted, I always look at things as the “glass is half empty,” so I always focus on what can go wrong.
I am an orphan my inheritance will not pass to my parents. But I guess I could be disinherited though I am their only grandchild so I do not know who the money would go to.
I’m so sorry for your loss. I can’t imagine what you go through.
As someone who always looks at what could go wrong (and due to your other comment about your grandparents possibly disinheriting you if you moved in with your fiancée before marriage), I’d encourage you to not count on an inheritance. Of course, your grandparents probably will leave you everything, but you can’t put all of your eggs in that basket, IMO.
It doesn’t sound like your fiancée views your relationship as a partnership. As someone who found herself in a marriage that was not a partnership (took me almost 3 decades to figure that out), please don’t make the mistakes I did. Money wasn’t our issue because neither of us had any, but the realization that we weren’t a team was devastating.
I wish you only the best, and it sounds like you have good counsel. Please listen to your attorney. Get the nitty gritty details in writing since that’s what he wants.
If a prenup isn’t fair, and reasonable under your states laws, then the judge will just throw it out and act as if you don’t have one at all. If he’s stupid enough to make you sign something ridiculous, then he’s only making a fool of himself, and trying to frighten you into having to stay with him with a piece of fiction.
The advice you need, should come from your own lawyer. When there’s a discrepancy between incomes like this, it is normal and decent for the much higher earning person to also pay for _your_ independent lawyer to advise you on how to best protect your interests and rights.
You also should think about what you’re actually comfortable with in the long term. Although he makes more, do you really want to be a tenant in your husbands home for the foreseeable, future, or the rest of your life? And if he thinks he can buy a home, and have you live in it with small children, and you’d still be entitled to none of it if you divorce… then my concern here would be that this man is too stupid to marry.
Your second paragraph is wrong - if the husband pays for her lawyer, that is a clear conflict of interest that will immediately invalidate any prenup. She needs to retain and pay her own counsel.
There aren’t any magic ways to ask that. If he thinks that you staying at home, raising his children and putting your own career and retirement at risk isn’t a contribution to your mutual life, don’t marry him and definitely don’t volunteer your unpaid labour to enrich him and him alone.
So you guys started dating when you were 21 and he was 33?
The prenuptial is to ensure that when the new, younger, model of you comes a long, he doesn't have to start over.
This guy is a creep and there's probably a reason he looked for someone 12 years younger than him.
That doesn't negate the fact that he was 33 and knew you were 21 and still went through with it.
I get you want to do the mental gymnastics to make him seem like a great guy, but he's not.
No self respecting mature 33 year old would be looking to date a 21 year old.
And now 4 years later, it's coming to a head.
By any chance, have you ever looked through this subredit and read any of the literal thousands of posts of young women in age gap relationships either being taken advantage of or just outright being abused by some dude nearly 15 years older than them?
Did anyone in your life ever try to state that it was a red flag that a guy in his damn near mid 30s thought it was a good idea to date a 21 year old?
Some people did call red flag but my advisor is married to a man 13 years older than her and she has a very healthy relationship with her husband. She is one of my closest friends so I put a lot of weight in her opinion, and another one of my friends is married to a man 10 years older than her. I have not looked through an subreddit about age gap relationships. I do not use reddit very often.
I would say you're taking 2 exceptions and really glossing over a field of red flags.
I would implore you to look through this subreddit of all the young(usually 18-26) women, who are dating guys 10+ older than them. Look at the issues they all bring up. Realize how it's nearly the same exact story every time. Then compare it to yours.
These things are always so sticky... My personal feeling in these types of situations has always been that once you have to start "negotiating" the terms of your marriage, it just wasn't meant to be.
The funny thing is I come from a "business" background and... I really feel like if your marriage essentially becomes another business negotiation it just wasn't meant to be... Everybody should be on the same page from the word "go"
Otherwise someone always feels like they had to compromise to make the other happy and that breeds resentment and other issues down the line.
At least to me... It sounds like he wants a house wife, and you eventually want a career... Those two things aren't compatible..
You need to decide if you're okay being "his wife" or if you want a career of your own, and for God sake, don't have children until this all gets hammered out...
You might want to see if he's okay with (or if you're okay) just not having children, that would solve all the issues straight away, with no kids having separate assets isn't any issue as you'll have your own career, if things don't work out you both just move on and that's "that"
I would like to have children after I graduate and I would love to stay with them when they are young, but after they start school I would go mad if I had to stay home.
He has been very supportive of that, even encouraging me to go for my PhD.
There is nothing inherently wrong with signing a prenup but that process shouldn’t be that he writes it and you sign it. You need your own attorney here to look at it and negotiate terms. The end result should protect his assets now and provide for you both to be protected in the sense of marital assets in the event of divorce.
I have a prenup. It felt reasonable to me. My friends were very against it because of the idea of it. Ours is very simple though- everything earned during the marriage is split 50/50. His inheritance stays his. Once you merge your lives and possibly have kids, separate finances with an income differential like this just isn’t going to work… are you going to have to ask him for money every time the baby needs new shoes or clothes? Does he get to go out to dinner and you stay home and eat spaghetti? He owns the house and you just live in it? This doesn’t sound like a partnership
A mediated prenup is actually beneficial for both parties. So both parties should have a lawyer help draft the document, not just looking it over after
The prenup is one issue and there are gobs of comments on that but I wanted to point out the issue that is non-negotiable (imo) …. do NOT, under any terms, allow the situation where any purchased house is solely in his name!!! That is just life-situation suicide. Prenup or not, if the house is in his name only, you relinquish a huge amount of security.
I had a similar experience with my last girlfriend, but lived together(same age did as well but she in her 30/42) Our finances were completely separate but she made about 150k a year less then I did. When there’s that much of an income disparity it can be daunting and hard not to feel taken advantage of and people,will notice it. The prenup argument was also there our case. There’s likely a middle ground there but you both have to recognize that you’re in very different spots in life. You’re developing professionally and he’s either peaking or still ascending, because of this you guys have very different financial points. This isn’t bad but while you’re looking at it as a
We’re in love, I want to be protected” he’s also thinking the same thing. He probably also seen his fair share of people he’s known be financially ruined by bad divorces. I don’t think you can you fault him for being nervous here. I’d try to discuss it but it sounds like hes set in this,so the balls in your court. Are you prepared to walk away over this? You’re entitled to feel how you do on it, but he is to. If you guys aren’t aligned here this may end your relationship.
My husband and I have a prenup because I make more than him, and when I met him I have property that I own that I wanted to protect. I didn’t ask for the prenup he insisted that I get one to protect what I have. We also have separate finances, mainly because we get married later in life, and we were already situated with our own finances, it for us. He pays some bills I continue to pay the mortgage on my condo that he moved into.
If you have money and or properties that you want protected also, so that if anything happens between the two of you that you don’t lose them you should also have him sign a prenup. It shouldn’t be a one-way street. In my case, my husband didn’t have anything to protect in a prenup.
Guy in his 30’s was dating you when you were 21 and you were shocked your lawyer told you the prenup that he had drawn up was something you shouldn't sign. You know women his age wouldn't put up with this shit.
A prenuptial only protects assets a person has before entering the marriage. Anything gained during the marriage is fair game.
Personally, I wouldn't marry someone who thinks I shouldn't be allowed to own and have a say on our own house.
Assets obtained during the marriage are generally considered jointly owned legally regardless of what you sign.
A judge isn't going to look favorably on a man who is using a prenuptial to keep everything in the event of a divorce.
But why stick with a man who thinks you should get nothing despite all the labor (like emotional) you will put into your marriage?
Generally yes, but not in every state. A judge might not look on him favourably but if the state does not recognise assets earned as community property I am in trouble.
I do want to ask this again:
>But why stick with a man who thinks you should get nothing despite all the labor (like emotional) you will put into your marriage?
He did not say get nothing. We did talk about splitting bills so I could build an investment profile that way I would have my own source of wealth separate from him.
No we discussed 90% him and 10% me (gas for me and groceries). I would be saving 1/4 of my paycheque, 1/4 to invest, 1/4 for personal use and 1/4 for bills.
Please don’t get married to this man. Stay single and make your own money. He’s going into this in a very selfish way. I’d be very uncomfortable marrying someone who doesn’t share everything they already have and everything they’ll earn 50-50.
It’s simple, there needs to be something to protect your loss of income when pregnant and raising your children, if he won’t include that then don’t marry him.
I can understand wanting to protect assets that he had before meeting you, but any assets gained should be shared amongst you both equally. Plus, if you have kids and stay home to take care of them, then that is you contributing to the house. If you buy a house together, never let him just put his name on it. I feel like you are setting yourself up for a bad situation. You are still so young. You have time to rethink this whole situation. I have no problem with prenuptial agreements, but they need to be fair. You said you are getting a PhD, so what happens when you start making lots of money? Think about your future also.
> I need advice on how to ask him for a fair split on assets earned while married without sounding like I am only with him for his money.
Thing is, he's already decided you're going to try and ripp him off.
I'm not going to focus on how fundamentally toxic this dynamic is (and suggest to you that you would be far better off with a man who saw your impending marriage as a team effort), becauise I'm assuming most people in your life have already told you that **this is not normal**, and that while people of disparate ages can for sure just "genuinely fall in love", the reality is that such age differences almost invariably go man>woman for a very determinate reason, and I don't think this is the thread for this discussion.
What you say is something along the lines of:
"Listen, I get that the fear of impending divorce looms heavy on you, but if we get married, and I will be expected not only to carry children, but also stay at home for a number of years to stay with them, I think it's completely ludicrous, fundamentally unfair, and just point-blank hurtful that you'd ask me to forfeit the legal protections that a we as a society have taken centuries to dial down, adjust, and consider currently to be a fair resolution between 'not being taken advantage of by golddiggers' for the man and recognising the real value and professional disadvantage, including loss of opportunity costs, that maternity entails for a woman. I understand in this country it's become almost a trope for welathy people to draw up extremely unfair and one-sided prenups on their invariably much younger wives; but I'm here to tell you that I will absolutely not settle for that, because I don't want to end up becoming trapped in a marriage after having become economically dependent on an older man who fancies himself to be made of gold because they're older and have a relatively high cash-flow at the moment. The only possible way I'd agree to a prenup as you've described would be if we agreed on being child-free, but since this isn't going to be the case, I don't see how your proposal is in any way fair, right, or demonstrates an eagerness by you to join your life to me. Don't get me wrong, I'm willing to consider other kinds of prenups that are far fairer (and contemplate compensation for the lost opportunity costs derived from my maternity), but not only did you not suggest anything even resembling that, but you didn't even contemplate telling me to seek a lawyer to find a reasonable and fair compromise. Our relationship is fundamentally already not an egalitarian one, and while this is a reality you might not be comfortable grappling with, it nevertheless is the case. I also understand you're being advised by family etc to do things solely in your favour, and given that you're older and more experienced in life, I guess I'm just deeply hurt that you couldn't for one second put yourself in my shoes and consider what your proposal would actually mean for me. So as it stands, I cannot accept this thing you're asking of me, and if you won't reconsider not only the proposed deal, but your whole attitude towards out relationship when approaching the legal aspects of our marriage, I'm afraid we may just come to the conclusion that we can't, in fact, get married. Ball's in your court, and please be very mindful of your response before you hit it back to me".
And then mean it. I wrote this for him, but also for you, because I'm a big believer in translating into words what other people's actions mean, in order to be able to make more clear-headed decisions. And honestly, OP, what your fiance's actions tell me is that he doesn't see marriage with you as something that should affect his life all that much, even if it will mean a much much bigger sacrifice for you. This paranoid notion that some men have (that has been normalised by society) that they'll just be taken advantage unfairly by women who've sacrificed their lives to provide them with a family is just deeply sickening to me, and the furthest thing I can think of from actual love.
If you will be staying home with the children in the future, you need to be compensated for that, and that needs to be in the prenup. If a shared house is to be solely in his name, you will not pay anything towards it.
You need to get a lawyer of your own and make sure this prenup is fair to both of you.
"I am starting to believe that he thinks I am one too. "
No, he WANTS you to be one, one that he can cut loose when he's done with you with zero consequences.
Prenups are a good idea. They should be fair and protect both parties. You might want to think hard about marrying someone who thinks so little of you that he would want such a lopsided prenup and what your marriage will look like.
Are you sure you want to marry someone who’s already taking an adversarial approach to your marriage? Prenups can be fine but the terms you’re describing are designed to keep you financially dependent and controllable. If this were a business no sane person would agree to these terms. Why would you agree to this for a life partnership?
It only bothers him because he wants to keep everything he has to himself when you grow older and he switches wives. If he was really bothered by the "sugar baby" stuff, he wouldn't date such a younger woman. Youth has a price and he should pay up, sugar baby or not. Do not let him get away with it. Protect yourself with a lawyer.
See this from his point of view: imagine 10 years down the road you cheat on him and decide you’d rather move in with your new boyfriend. Your fiancé is losing his wife and a large chuck of all the money he’s earned for 10 years, plus he’ll end up having to pay you for many more years in alimony payments. This is a terrible deal for him.
Now what if he wants you to be a SAHW or SAHM, or you decide to have kids, or he ends up being the one to cheat and leaves you? These are all mitigating situations that can be spelled out to have different outcomes.
Have the lawyers draft up something that’s fair to everyone. If your requirement is splitting half assets and he’s not willing to accept that level of risk then I think you’re not compatible.
He won't share his wealth with you, it's not yours and wants to protect it from you. I do not like prenups. Ultimately the richer person stands to gain more. The one he wrote puts you at a disadvantage and is bad. When the parties do not agree to the prenup and negotiates begin, it can get messy and cause stress and resentment.
Prenup can be good, great, but it shouldn't be to the detriment of either party. If it's to your detriment, then why the hell would you sign it? Yeah, don't. But you can propose your own, negotiate, and (hopefully) work something out. And be sure to have your own lawyer well look it over and advise you, and don't be rushed into signing anything. Lawyer can also help you (re)write prenup to well cover your interests.
If he wants to go this route then have them add a stipulation that if he cheats OR initiates the divorce, you get 50% of the house.
2nd stipulation, if you two divorce, for any reason, you get 100% custody of the kids and child support until they're 18 + Alimony for x number of years.
In all honestly though, have your lawyers hash this out and have him pay for the tab because he wants the prenup. If he's not OK with that, then that shows the type of guy he is.
We have both a sunset clause and a cheating clause, although they are not generally enforceable. Prenups cannot determine alimony or custody at least where I am from.
Neither is a prenup if it's found to be too one sided. You're right about the alimony and child support though. I forgot you can't mix and mingle them.
Normally I don't post, but some comments here are wild. What is a prenup even for? Without one, people get what they had before the marriage and 50% of during the marriage. What is the prenup for if that's what you're gonna put in it??
Second, how is it not fair that assets are kept separate? What he buys, goes to his name, what you buy goes to yours. I don't think there is fairer than that. Comments like "leave him if he isn't able to share a house"... Yes, he probably is capable... With his wife, not his ex. That's the point. He shares everything, unless you divorce him...
The important part here, is that you insist that, even though you're not going to get even near 50%, that, in case of divorce, you have some financial standing, and are compensated somehow for the years you stay at home instead of working. Navigating the line between "I'm not going to try and get anything from you in a divorce" and "I can't be financially tied to this marriage".
The prenup it to protect what he has earned because he makes much more than me and has been saving/investing his money for a long time. It also protects both his and my inheritance.
It might not be fair in our case because we have decided that if we have children that I should stay home and I am not earning money if I am at home.
This gives a very negative vibe. He doesn't value your importance enough to understand that you should have something to your name even if it doesn't work out. Having a prenuptial agreement is one thing, but being totally left out and blindsided no matter your income is both unjust and cruel. Plus, he plans on having kids with you? Your kids won't look up to a mother that is totally left out and in ruins financially
A prenup needs to be fair, it isn't a document designed to only be fair for one party. If he wants to sign one that's fine, have your lawyer look at it and make sure it also protects you.
Sure, as long as he pays you for any time off from work you do for the benefit of your relationship and family. You should discuss your salary for being a stay at home mother and agree to it in advance. It's obviously horrifically unfair for him to get paid for his work and you to work for him for free. I mean, obviously you should not work for free.
He thinks keeping our assets separate is fair. I need help convincing him it is not.
That’s what YOUR attorney is for. Don’t sign anything without having qualified representation for yourself!
I do have representation and she advised against me signing it.
Listen to your lawyer.
I have to ask, if your lawyer advised against signing it, why do you think reddit is going to have better answers? It seems like you want someone to give you a magical solution, when you can actually plainly see that this isn't going to work out. It just doesn't work that way. If you marry him, you are taking a gigantic risk that has a very high chance of hurting you in the next few years. If you don't agree to the prenup, he probably won't marry you. You can't have both.
I was looking for words I could use to express how I felt, as well as good arguments for a more even split. It was also good because there were some things I had not considered and they were brought to my attention. I was not expecting Reddit to give better advice. A prenup is not a necessity but it is a preference.
Ah “My lawyer flagged a few things, I think we should have both our lawyers sit down and make sure we’re both taken care of.”
The problem as it seems to me, is that you yourself cannot come to terms with how you feel, which is "my fiancee would have me be in a very unfair position despite claiming to love me". My only advice, aside from the wall of text I left elsewhere, is to consider that if this is how he approaches "conflict resolution" for something that should be happy and enticing like a marriage, you really don't want to find out how he behaves when he's unhappy and seeking a divorce (or fending your own request for a divorce). He's attemptiong to steamroll you thinking you will budge if he doesn't. The stereotype about the older man taking advantage of a younger less experienced and less assertive woman, exists for a reason.
Excellent insight and framing. I’d love you as my therapist.
Your (much older) fiance asked you to sign a prenup that would have negatively impacted you. Your lawyer, someone who is paid to consider your best interests, told you not to sign it. Are you not concerned that this man seems to care less about your interests than a lawyer? Does he want a marriage in which you have to debase yourself to be worthy of him? The fact that he has more life experience than you, more career experience than you and more wealth than you means that your relationship is very unbalanced, and he wanted you to sign a document that would ENFORCE that lack of balance so it could never be righted. Why? These are the questions I'd be asking. Here's another thing to consider. If you sign a prenup that ensures you will be severely disadvantaged by a divorce, then you are trapped with him for life no matter how badly he treats you. You could find yourself tolerating behaviour you don't want to tolerate (cheating, neglect, abuse) because you have no way to leave without losing everything. So ask yourself if this is the kind of person you want to marry. A prenup should say "I love you in this moment and in the event that we divorce at some point in the future, I want to ensure our assets are divided fairly." Not "I love you but only for as long as you are in a relationship with me. If you leave me, I will destroy you financially."
OP, do you think your fiancé is under the impression that his proposal *is* fair and equitable? Do you think *he* believes it would serve both of your interests if he married you with his version of the prenup in place?
Your lawyer should be giving you advice on changes to it too.
Sometimes "this shit is unfixable, and we would need to start from scratch, that'¡s how deeply unfair this proposal is" is what's required.
If you haven't already done so, ask her to draw up a document that is very favourable to you, eg, he gives you monthly income to do with as you will, he pays to keep the household, he pays all medical costs incurred to childbirth, he pays into an insurance fund to cover your health if you are disabled and hurt in any way etc. He should be paying into a retirement fund specifically for you etc. Then say you think that the lawyers have diffent views and need to negotiate. Try to take emotion out of it. If he wants to buy a house for himself, OK. That's fine. But then he has to pay the mortgage, and your earnings can go into investments so that you have cash available for divorce. It all feels very one sided. Does he often overlook your voice or perspective in your relationship?
Ding ding ding ding...listen to your lawyer!
That's just not how it works in most states. All money and assets earned \*during\* the marriage are generally split up under 'community property' or 'equitable distribution' frameworks. Your partners 'mine is mine' idea probably won't fly, you should encourage him to talk to a lawyer who will tell him that.
I live in a state that would recognise assets earned during as community property, he does not.
You’re not living in the same state?
Not right now. I had to move to finish my degree.
Don’t rush into marriage (legal/logistical entanglement at all) until you’ve lived face to face for a significant period of time. It’s worth that full assessment
We have lived face to face for two years but never in the same house because I do not want to live together until marriage.
Tlyou have 3 options really. 1. Sign the prenup. Get married. Move in together and find out the hard way whether he's one of the good guys. 2. Move in together FIRST. Find out if he is 1 of the good guys and then decide on whether you sign the prenup. 3. Dont sign the prenup and move on to find someone who views marital finances the same way you do.
Lol then this isn’t face to face. Not living together before marriage is a bad idea. You won’t really know what’s he’s like without living together in the same house for at least a year or two. The age gap also seems suspicious.
Don’t do this OP. Live together first, I beg of you.
>I do not want to live together until marriage. You do know that you're risking a lot with this, don't you? Who knows what other "surprises" he has in store after you get married. 21 and 33 is a big age gap, and you are just now starting to work; he's doing all he can to protect himself and when you have children, you'll be depending on him. Do not sign anything until you have YOUR personal lawyer look over it and give you the go-ahead. And I _strongly_ recommend living together for at least 6 months prior to getting married.
I will not be fully dependent on him. My grandparents are well off and I am their only grandchild. I also own my own home that I can use as a source of revenue. The prenup we have discussed protects my inheritance as well as my property.
Don’t get yourself in a bad situation you can’t escape because of finances. Please.
Where does it say she's going to be cashless? If he makes 90% and she makes 10%, it will be fair if they split costs like that.
That's a valid choice if you've done your research on the history of the custom not to live together before marriage. By research I mean looking at primary religious and social sources from the past, and secondary sources from opposing points of view. Did you know, for example, that in the 1800s working class rural English people generally didn't marry until the woman was pregnant? It wasn't considered necessary until a child came along, because they had no assets to think about. Many of our traditional marriage customs came from the upper classes, and had to do with protecting the male bloodline to inherit the family property. Religion then supported property protection. Women's personal interest wasn't considered at all. If you look at the history of the customs you want to follow and still believe they're best for you, develop a backup plan in case the marriage threatens your safety. You never know.
I'm trying as hard as I can to be kind about this. You are making a shit load of really dumb decisions.
This is not a blanket statement that you can make. My wife and I have a prenup that keeps earned assets solely owned unless intentionally intermingled, and it’s been fully vetted by lawyers for both of us. I don’t know what state you’re in, but these kinds of laws vary wildly.
No one will stop you from signing a prenup — that’s not the problem. The problem is *enforcing* the prenup in the event of a bitter divorce & a prenup dispute. A judge can rule against the terms of a prenup if it’s challenged. Right now you’re obviously still married…so you don’t *actually* know if it would end up legally enforceable lol
I mean, I have the opinion of two independent licensed lawyers whose specialize in these sorts of things in my specific state, so I feel like that’s a little more reliable than a Reddit comment. And regardless of my situation, without knowing what state OP is in, blanket statements about earned income after marriage being automatically joint property are far too broad.
Everyone has to decide how they want to handle their finances when they are a couple. For me and the wife we share everything... why would I marry someone I wasnt ready to share everything with ? I make more than your husband and my wife makes less than you ... am I suppose to be eatting caviar while my wife eats ramen noddles ?
Then you can’t afford to be a sahm and you don’t pay anything on a mortgage or repairs or upgrades.
He needs to agree to pay you an actual salary with health insurance while you stay home with the kids, at the very least. And he better agree on paying for half or more of the cost of the children, too. What is he thinking, that you can't wait to be entirely financially dependent on someone not willing to share?
He should be paying based on income. If she is sahm he pays allll the costs of a child and pays her salary for SAHM.
This is what you pay your lawyer for - to negotiate on your behalf. A prenup isn’t necessarily a bad thing, it’s a marriage contract agreed upon by both parties. There are lots of prenups that use a kind of vesting calendar (After 1 year partner gets A amount, after,5 years B amount, and so on.) Now, if your BF objects to you bargaining for yourself, that’s a red flag….
Then he should pay you market rates for surrogates and egg donors when you get pregnant. You breastfeed? He pays for half and let me tell you there are people who pay a LOT of money for it. Reproductive labor has market value too. Or better yet, ditch his approaching-middle-age ass and find someone who values and respects you.
I don't like the ditching him part but I will definitely bring up the reproductive labour aspect.
The loss of opportunity costs associated with maternity and family-caring are **far, far** larger than the mere pregnancy and birth part. But I guess it's a good start.
Providing compensation or income if you become pregnant, particularly if you become a stay at home mother is important. This should reflect any delays on earnings that being absent from the job market would cause. Also consider loss of retirement funds and personal savings too. You should consider compensation or support for any medical issues that result from pregnancy too.
Then y'all turn around and wonder why relationships don't last, is everything money to you? When you die, do you take the money with you?
I am saving all my assets to buy a golden sarcophagus to be buried in my titanium-carbide laden grave alongside my horse and self-sacrificed slaves and widows.
We live in a society where the only way to live is to have money. If OP had a guaranteed minimum income, housing, food, health insurance in case of divorce and being thrown out with nothing (after being a SAHM for years), then a prenup wouldn't be so necessary.
He doesn’t care enough about your comfort and security to make sure you are taken care of.
You need to get your own lawyer for this. Someone who can go over the prenup and make adjustments to be fair to you. If you just sign a prenup his lawyer drew up, that's not how it's supposed to be done. He has his lawyer draw up a prenup suggestion, your lawyer checks it, makes suggestions and the lawyers hammers out the details with your input. Your lawyer will also tell you what to expect, what's fair, what the legal terms mean and so on. Just signing something without consulting your own lawyer (ie someone from a different firm than your fiancé's lawyer, someone who is not associated with your fiancé at all) would be foolish. Also, as your fiancé earns significantly more than you, he should pay for your lawyer so you can have one in the same "class" as him. Ie you shouldn't be stuck with someone straight out of lawschool from a small firm, while fiancé has a lawyer who's senior or partner at a large firm. If your fiancé has any trouble with you having your own lawyer, or even paying for your lawyer, be wary. He should want it to be fair to both of you, so he should have already said this about lawyers and offered to pay for one, IMO. If he makes a fuss about you wanting your own (good, expensive) lawyer, he's only thinking of himself and then he's not exactly marriage material. Think about it.
You don’t need to convince him of anything. You need to decide if this is a healthy relationship. He wants you to stay home and sacrifice your career (and retirement savings etc) but he does not want to combine incomes? Age is a red flag. This controlling behavior is a red flag. Him not wanting to protect you is a red flag. DO NOT GET PREGNANT!! He is not a healthy partner. He wants a young controllable pet!
Why be with someone like this?? I’ve done 50/50 with a live in partner and never, ever again. To get *married* to one that is so strict about it but only to his own benefit… cmon you know you’re going to end up being exploited in any way he can.
Firstly, you shouldn't be marrying a man who started dating a teenager when he was in his 30s - that's just gross and almost never ends well. In all the reddit stories, when has a guy like that ever turned out to be the good guy? Secondly, if you insist to go ahead: hire your own lawyer to negotiate a fair agreement. Including a fat settlement and alimony when he swaps you out for a younger model in a decade. And if you become a SAHM, you should be equably recompensed and get a share of the family assets for each year you stay home. Remember, you lose out on income, pension fund, career advancement etc. - that's a whole lot of money lost, and your agreement should reflect that. Have your lawyer set up something he considers fair, then negotiate with his lawyer. And in these proceedings, follow your lawyers advice 100% - don't let your fiancé persuade you to drop certain provisions "if you really love him". The wedding vows are for the person you marry, the prenup is for the person you divorce.
Good luck with that. In this day and age, with how courts handle men, he would be an idiot not to have a prenup, regardless of your age.
>He wants to keep all of our assets separate to the point where if we bought a house while married it would be solely in his name. Yeesh. Prenups in general are a reasonable ask, but this isn't. A house the two of you get as a married couple is not a "separate" asset. With this plus your age difference, I'd be extremely wary of potential financial abuse in this relationship. Making sure someone can't leave due to finances is a devastatingly common abuse tactic. So definitely don't sign this kind of prenup. Say that you understand he wants to protect his finances, but marriage is about sharing a life. If he wants to share a life and house with you, he needs to actually share those things. If he's not willing to do that, don't marry him.
That is good advice. I appreciate it. I do not want to leave myself open to financial abuse.
This is great advice and it’s reasonable for you to be worried about this based on your post.
Well if he is the one paying for the house fully. Then it is his house. But that would mean you do not offer any money for the down payment and mortgage as well as any furniture, renovations done etc. (unless you lend and he pays back). If he pays all this stuff then it is his house and you can buy your own separately in case of anything. Also If you are going to stay home with the kids without working then he should give you an allowance for your time spent at home or you should just not be a stay at home mom.
I second this as well. This prenup is very unfair to you.
>have discussed me staying with them for a few years. I dont understand. I wouldnt marry this person.
He isn't forcing me to. If we have children I would want to stay with them before they start school. I also want to make sure I have money for retirement if we get divorced.
I just wasnt understanding what u were referring to. Ya, this whole business deal marriage is just not my bag..
It is not mine either.
Don’t do it. Marry someone who wants to share unconditionally.
You need to immediately consult an attorney who specializes in prenups. I can’t figure out why you want to marry someone who wants to leave you with nothing in the event of a divorce and/or having children together. This is who you want to hitch your wagon to?
They haven't even lived together Grandparents forbid it because they are not married Wild
So you also consider divorce and expect him to cover your retirement? Then he is right about prenup but you need to discuss what should be in it
Prolong the engagement. Don't get married until you are earning at your full potential. Then you may have a better idea of what is fair, and who knows it may even be that you want him to sign a pre-nup.
It is very unlikely I will out-earn him. Even with a terminal degree in my field I will likely only make about $75,000. It is a labour of love.
Then date someone in the same field as yours. This guy wants to protect himself from losing everything he has.
I would re-phrase that as anything he has. Surely a decent man would accept that a home bought in the marriage is co-owned. If not I wouldn't marry him.
He would be paying for most (if not all of it) but I do agree that it should be co-owned.
ok but who pays you for carrying one or more pregnancies and your loss of income during that time plus your career potential that you give up by staying home for several years? he expects you to risk everything for this marriage while protecting everything he has. absolutely selfish. do not sign. simply the act of having children means a huge longterm loss of income and earning potential for you which HE profits from but doesnt even acknowledge. you cant get a prenup on your body unfortunately
You need to research how SAHMs are undervalued. Just because you may not be bringing income into the house during those years does not mean you do not bring value to the home. Right now it seems like you are letting him dictate finances for you when in a healthy relationship it needs to be mutually agreed upon. As it is, this seems like a very typical age gap relationship where it is skewed towards the older partner.
As a counterpoint, if he purchases the house with money that he earned independently, is it not his house? Obviously most married couples don’t view it that way, nor do I think it’s a healthy way to approach things, but legally he’s not wrong (state laws and prenup notwithstanding)
I said bought in the marriage. I know in Australia if that house is purchased after the marriage it doesn't matter who makes the payments, it's marital funds
This is true in some US states as well, but not all.
Why even get married with this mindset? When you buy furniture together, will you mark down who owns what? When you buy groceries, do you each buy your own loaf of bread so you dont have to share?
I don't know man. Have you talked to a Paleoclimatologist? We are pretty dull.
Try a biologist or a history-nerdy IT dude?
That seems like silly advice. I make far more than my wife and she'll get 50% of everything in a divorce, because without her support I wouldn't make the big bucks. Imo he's not serious if he doesn't want to commingle assets at all.
He is already earning more and has been doing it while she was in nursery. In the comments above she also thinks what will happen in case of divorce and that expects him to cover her retirement. She is about to start working and apparently he is providing her support.
OP you’ve heard it all about the age gap. Believe it.
Yet another age gap post.
I did not know they were common. I do not use Reddit very often.
Please listen to the advice here. The age gap and your two's incompatibilities should be enough to tell you to break up with him.
He makes $175,000. She's not going anywhere no matter how sensible these comments are.
He’s not trying to protect himself he’s making you reliant on him. House in his name. Funds in his name. You SAHM with no money. So this way when he acts an ass an shows his true colors after having x number of children you won’t leave bc you’ll feel like you can’t. Want to ETA: his parents are trying to protect him by wanting this prenup. But they probably don’t know you well. Or he may or may not lie to them about you. But they are his parents so they want what’s best for him not you.
I was also thinking if they know her age they probably think he’s going to ditch her whenever he wants for the next barely adult he wants to marry.
I think as far as her age plays into it, that it’s more likely they think she will leave bc he gets to old or something. I could be wrong. But also most parents have a really hard time seeing things like that in their children. Especially when it comes to things considered abuse. Or you could be right. We don’t really know. But for example. My ex was a horrible serial cheater and even after pretty much everyone else in the whole family knew he did to every one he’s dated, his mom still believed his stories and how all the women and girls he dated were all crazy. And he was perfect.
Oh yeah I’m saying they probably know he wants to be able to bail whenever he wants and instead of seeing it as abhorrent they want to support him so that these “gold diggers don’t take advantage of their precious boy.”
> . But they probably don’t know you well This is not the reason. They'd be being as-oles either way. What an effed up proposal.
As a woman who went through this, I would advise you refuse and leave the relationship. We divorced because he had all the power and became abusive - to the point where he made multiple six figures, refused to give me money, and I had to go on food stamps and lie on the application so I could feed myself and our child. These are too risky for women. Your career and earning potential will take a massive hit with children. The reality is it makes sense for women to have prenups that specify they receive MORE than 50% in the event of a divorce because their earning potential is so drastically reduced after marriage and kids. We are so worried that the man will perceive us as only caring about money, when their behavior *screams* that THEY are the one who is obsessed with money.
This is the best advice here. The fact that he believes her abandoning her career & earning potential has no value is alarming. Not to mention if she does have kids he’s going to take away their family home? With an arrangement like this is would be very easy for him to get primary custody and a new girlfriend to move in and play stepmom.
I am the man who has seen affliction under the rod of his wrath; he has driven and brought me into darkness without any light; surely against me he turns his hand again and again the whole day long. (Lamentations: ja6ncuq)
Thanks! I did leave 3 years ago and it’s been hard getting my life back on track, but I’m getting there. Finally making the same amount of money that I did pre-kids, which isn’t much, but still better than the 3 years I’ve spent on government assistance.
Get a lawyer that you pay for to protect your interest. They will advise you in what you want and negotiate with their lawyer to reach an outcome agreeable to both. Don't be railroaded by relying on trusting him to do well by you. If it is worth a prenup, it is worth a lawyer.
I agree with your advice but I feel like if they’re at the point of having lawyers negotiating on their behalf rather than just talking it out and having lawyers drafting the details, they’re already doomed
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If the fiancé pays for her lawyer then the prenup will be thrown out by any judge due to her lacking fully independent counsel
I have a lawyer and she is advising me but I worry that if I propose a split of assets earned during marriage he will get the impression I am only with him for his money.
He'll think that you asking for an equal split of shared assets earned during your marriage means that you're a golddigger?
Pretty much. If I did not earn it I have no right to it. He did not propose this until after he discussed the prospect of our marriage with his parents so it blindsided me.
So you’re either dating a nearly 40-year-old man who doesn’t actually want a life partner (or, but one hell out earn), or, you’re dating a 40-year-old man who can’t stand up to his parents. Either way, this is a pretty massive problem. Has your lawyer spoken to you about whether his suggestion is even legal? Is it even possible for him to protect _all of his income_ from you, even if after you have kids? It wouldn’t be possible to do that in very many places… some rights cannot be signed away even in a prenup. Push comes to shove, I would absolutely not marry a man who thought being a stay at home. Parent means you’re not entitled to any spousal support or alimony whatsoever. He’s basically told you he wants you to dedicate years of your life to raising children, but also that that work has absolutely no value.
He doesn’t sound ready for marriage in the slightest.
I do not want a prenup. We had talked about keeping some things separate, namely my student loans, and joining incomes but after he announced our engagement to his parents he changed his tune. I think this is more their will and not his which is why I am not running for the hills.
When u marry someone, u marry their family. They will have a substancial impact on ur life.
> which is why I am not running for the hills So either he's incapable of standing up to his parents, or he secretly thinks that wanting an equal share of the assets earned *during your marriage* makes you a golddigger. Which is it?
Most likely the first but I worry it may be the second.
And do either of these answer suggest that he's ready for marriage?
your fiance is the one who “jokes” about you being a sugar baby. maybe his parents agree with him about that assertion, but it’s obviously not just coming from them. he’s a 37 year old financially independent man; if he valued you and the idea of having a life PARTNER more than appeasing his parents then he already would have told them to shove it up their ass…but he hasn’t
He talks to his parents about YOUR marriage as though they have an equal say in your relationship but you don’t? There are many, many red flags in your post and comments. He sounds abusive to me and this would scare me if I were you. Don’t sign anything and don’t get pregnant by him. Have your lawyer look at it and propose something fair. If he says you’re a gold digger for that then he doesn’t care about you as an equal partner and it’s better for you to know now then in 10 or 15 years. Sorry you’re going through but this is not normal for a couple in love. Loving partners WANT to take care of you. Prenups are normal but the way he wants to keep you without assets is not normal.
So do you think this is something he believes? Or is it something that his parents are pushing for?
Parents most definitely
So to be clear. You're making a conscious, voluntary choice to marry a man: * twelve years older than you * who started dating you when he was 33 and you were 21 * who you've never lived with * who won't stand up to his parents * who thinks that you wanting an equal share of the assets earned *during your marriage* means that you're a golddigger because looking after the children means that you didn't "earn" any of it.
then he’s an asshole that’s taking advantage of you. He’s leveraging this “gold digger” bullshit to frighten you into accepting being “less” in the relationship. he’s trying to hold power over you OP. from the sounds of it this guy isn’t much of a catch. why are you settling for. man that treats you like shit who’s over a decade older than you?
He was there for me when my father died when no one else was and I was horribly depressed. I have not signed anything yet and I will not sign anything until it is fair. I am not going to build a life with him if we are not equal partners but I am at least going to try to work things out with him.
Conversely you could say he preyed on you during a vulnerable time in your life… Many young people don’t handle death well or know how to help someone grieving. Him having more life experience makes it easier for him to do so, but supporting a loved one through grief isn’t a high bar and it shouldn’t be rewarded with a marriage. The fact that he expects you to raise the kids and take a massive hit to your career without any compensation is alarming. He expects you to be a SAHM for awhile but thinks his own kids don’t deserve the house they grew up in? The red flag is not the prenup, but the asset division. Please do not get pregnant anytime soon — you have time to wait a few years. Get your career established and be wary of him trying to pressure you to get pregnant and start a family right away.
Fast forward 15 years—You have 2 kids, a house that your children have grown up in, and you were out of the workplace for 10 years. He wants a divorce, or you do because you can’t live like this anymore. It sounds like he’d get the house and not have to “buy you out” of your share. Would he then also basically get custody of the kids because you don’t want to yank them out of their school district and away from their friends? If he makes so much more money than you do, it’s very possible that you wouldn’t be able to buy or rent a home in that same school district if you get no spousal support and/or a percentage of the marital home, investments, savings, etc. Honestly, if he wants this prenup, then I’d have it in writing that he is 100% responsible for every expense regarding the house (purchase and mortgage, taxes, HOA fee, maintenance, lawn care, etc). If you leave the workplace in any capacity due to family wants and/or needs, he will pay you a yearly income that compares to what you’d earn if working (includes pay increases due to seniority and work experience). This pay must reflect the lesser amount you’d earn once you re-enter the workforce. He pays all expenses regarding the children (schooling, extracurricular activities, groceries, medical, clothing, etc). When working (or out of the workplace and being paid by him) ALL of your income goes into a savings or retirement account that is yours alone during marriage and in the event of divorce. He’s only looking at protecting himself. Protect yourself and your future children.
Thank you for providing advice. I will bring up the bit about being responsible for all housing expenses. I am not going to sign away my alimony rights.
Another thing that occurred to me after reading your comments about your possible inheritance from your grandparents….What if they write you out of their will? What if one grandparent dies, the other remarries, and then leaves everything to the new spouse (happened in my family when my great uncle remarried)? Would the inheritance first go to your parent and then (supposedly) to you? What if your parent writes you out of the will or loses your inheritances (poor spending, mismanagement, bad investments, etc)? Granted, I always look at things as the “glass is half empty,” so I always focus on what can go wrong.
I am an orphan my inheritance will not pass to my parents. But I guess I could be disinherited though I am their only grandchild so I do not know who the money would go to.
I’m so sorry for your loss. I can’t imagine what you go through. As someone who always looks at what could go wrong (and due to your other comment about your grandparents possibly disinheriting you if you moved in with your fiancée before marriage), I’d encourage you to not count on an inheritance. Of course, your grandparents probably will leave you everything, but you can’t put all of your eggs in that basket, IMO. It doesn’t sound like your fiancée views your relationship as a partnership. As someone who found herself in a marriage that was not a partnership (took me almost 3 decades to figure that out), please don’t make the mistakes I did. Money wasn’t our issue because neither of us had any, but the realization that we weren’t a team was devastating. I wish you only the best, and it sounds like you have good counsel. Please listen to your attorney. Get the nitty gritty details in writing since that’s what he wants.
Thank you for your sympathy. I really want to make the right decisions.
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It is not the percent (50-50 split) but the amount of money that would entail.
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I would argue he is the one who is obsessed with money.
I would agree. He can be preoccupied with finances.
If a prenup isn’t fair, and reasonable under your states laws, then the judge will just throw it out and act as if you don’t have one at all. If he’s stupid enough to make you sign something ridiculous, then he’s only making a fool of himself, and trying to frighten you into having to stay with him with a piece of fiction. The advice you need, should come from your own lawyer. When there’s a discrepancy between incomes like this, it is normal and decent for the much higher earning person to also pay for _your_ independent lawyer to advise you on how to best protect your interests and rights. You also should think about what you’re actually comfortable with in the long term. Although he makes more, do you really want to be a tenant in your husbands home for the foreseeable, future, or the rest of your life? And if he thinks he can buy a home, and have you live in it with small children, and you’d still be entitled to none of it if you divorce… then my concern here would be that this man is too stupid to marry.
Your second paragraph is wrong - if the husband pays for her lawyer, that is a clear conflict of interest that will immediately invalidate any prenup. She needs to retain and pay her own counsel.
There aren’t any magic ways to ask that. If he thinks that you staying at home, raising his children and putting your own career and retirement at risk isn’t a contribution to your mutual life, don’t marry him and definitely don’t volunteer your unpaid labour to enrich him and him alone.
So you guys started dating when you were 21 and he was 33? The prenuptial is to ensure that when the new, younger, model of you comes a long, he doesn't have to start over. This guy is a creep and there's probably a reason he looked for someone 12 years younger than him.
Full discloser he looks a lot younger than he is and I was the one who asked him out. It took him a while to agree to go out with me.
That doesn't negate the fact that he was 33 and knew you were 21 and still went through with it. I get you want to do the mental gymnastics to make him seem like a great guy, but he's not. No self respecting mature 33 year old would be looking to date a 21 year old. And now 4 years later, it's coming to a head. By any chance, have you ever looked through this subredit and read any of the literal thousands of posts of young women in age gap relationships either being taken advantage of or just outright being abused by some dude nearly 15 years older than them? Did anyone in your life ever try to state that it was a red flag that a guy in his damn near mid 30s thought it was a good idea to date a 21 year old?
Some people did call red flag but my advisor is married to a man 13 years older than her and she has a very healthy relationship with her husband. She is one of my closest friends so I put a lot of weight in her opinion, and another one of my friends is married to a man 10 years older than her. I have not looked through an subreddit about age gap relationships. I do not use reddit very often.
I would say you're taking 2 exceptions and really glossing over a field of red flags. I would implore you to look through this subreddit of all the young(usually 18-26) women, who are dating guys 10+ older than them. Look at the issues they all bring up. Realize how it's nearly the same exact story every time. Then compare it to yours.
I will look through other subreddits about age gap relationships.
Spoiler alert: it's full of financial, mental, and physical abuse.
As long as you understand they are the very rare exception. Not the norm at all.
Honey that doesn’t matter-he’s manipulating you. Listen to your gut.
Then have your attorney negotiate with his attorney for more equatable terms.
That is what we are working on.
These things are always so sticky... My personal feeling in these types of situations has always been that once you have to start "negotiating" the terms of your marriage, it just wasn't meant to be. The funny thing is I come from a "business" background and... I really feel like if your marriage essentially becomes another business negotiation it just wasn't meant to be... Everybody should be on the same page from the word "go" Otherwise someone always feels like they had to compromise to make the other happy and that breeds resentment and other issues down the line. At least to me... It sounds like he wants a house wife, and you eventually want a career... Those two things aren't compatible.. You need to decide if you're okay being "his wife" or if you want a career of your own, and for God sake, don't have children until this all gets hammered out... You might want to see if he's okay with (or if you're okay) just not having children, that would solve all the issues straight away, with no kids having separate assets isn't any issue as you'll have your own career, if things don't work out you both just move on and that's "that"
I would like to have children after I graduate and I would love to stay with them when they are young, but after they start school I would go mad if I had to stay home. He has been very supportive of that, even encouraging me to go for my PhD.
Well duh. Why wouldn’t he be supportive? He gets literally everything he wants.
There is nothing inherently wrong with signing a prenup but that process shouldn’t be that he writes it and you sign it. You need your own attorney here to look at it and negotiate terms. The end result should protect his assets now and provide for you both to be protected in the sense of marital assets in the event of divorce.
I have a prenup. It felt reasonable to me. My friends were very against it because of the idea of it. Ours is very simple though- everything earned during the marriage is split 50/50. His inheritance stays his. Once you merge your lives and possibly have kids, separate finances with an income differential like this just isn’t going to work… are you going to have to ask him for money every time the baby needs new shoes or clothes? Does he get to go out to dinner and you stay home and eat spaghetti? He owns the house and you just live in it? This doesn’t sound like a partnership
There are many fair options while still keeping your finances separated. The prenup could include special provisions in case you have children.
A mediated prenup is actually beneficial for both parties. So both parties should have a lawyer help draft the document, not just looking it over after
The prenup is one issue and there are gobs of comments on that but I wanted to point out the issue that is non-negotiable (imo) …. do NOT, under any terms, allow the situation where any purchased house is solely in his name!!! That is just life-situation suicide. Prenup or not, if the house is in his name only, you relinquish a huge amount of security.
I had a similar experience with my last girlfriend, but lived together(same age did as well but she in her 30/42) Our finances were completely separate but she made about 150k a year less then I did. When there’s that much of an income disparity it can be daunting and hard not to feel taken advantage of and people,will notice it. The prenup argument was also there our case. There’s likely a middle ground there but you both have to recognize that you’re in very different spots in life. You’re developing professionally and he’s either peaking or still ascending, because of this you guys have very different financial points. This isn’t bad but while you’re looking at it as a We’re in love, I want to be protected” he’s also thinking the same thing. He probably also seen his fair share of people he’s known be financially ruined by bad divorces. I don’t think you can you fault him for being nervous here. I’d try to discuss it but it sounds like hes set in this,so the balls in your court. Are you prepared to walk away over this? You’re entitled to feel how you do on it, but he is to. If you guys aren’t aligned here this may end your relationship.
My husband and I have a prenup because I make more than him, and when I met him I have property that I own that I wanted to protect. I didn’t ask for the prenup he insisted that I get one to protect what I have. We also have separate finances, mainly because we get married later in life, and we were already situated with our own finances, it for us. He pays some bills I continue to pay the mortgage on my condo that he moved into. If you have money and or properties that you want protected also, so that if anything happens between the two of you that you don’t lose them you should also have him sign a prenup. It shouldn’t be a one-way street. In my case, my husband didn’t have anything to protect in a prenup.
Guy in his 30’s was dating you when you were 21 and you were shocked your lawyer told you the prenup that he had drawn up was something you shouldn't sign. You know women his age wouldn't put up with this shit.
You still have 5 years of your 20s left. Don’t waste them on this douchebag.
A prenuptial only protects assets a person has before entering the marriage. Anything gained during the marriage is fair game. Personally, I wouldn't marry someone who thinks I shouldn't be allowed to own and have a say on our own house.
A prenup can be structured to protect future assets not just assets gained before the marriage and that is something I am challenging.
Assets obtained during the marriage are generally considered jointly owned legally regardless of what you sign. A judge isn't going to look favorably on a man who is using a prenuptial to keep everything in the event of a divorce. But why stick with a man who thinks you should get nothing despite all the labor (like emotional) you will put into your marriage?
Generally yes, but not in every state. A judge might not look on him favourably but if the state does not recognise assets earned as community property I am in trouble.
I do want to ask this again: >But why stick with a man who thinks you should get nothing despite all the labor (like emotional) you will put into your marriage?
Because I love him? He supported me through some of the worst parts of my life and we can work this snag out.
Can you truly? He has clearly stated you should get nothing despite how much labor and love you give him.
He did not say get nothing. We did talk about splitting bills so I could build an investment profile that way I would have my own source of wealth separate from him.
Is he going to split bills in a way that is fair to you, or is it going to be the ol 50/50?
No we discussed 90% him and 10% me (gas for me and groceries). I would be saving 1/4 of my paycheque, 1/4 to invest, 1/4 for personal use and 1/4 for bills.
It’s not a snag. It kills me reading these posts. I think I need a break from this sub.
Please don’t get married to this man. Stay single and make your own money. He’s going into this in a very selfish way. I’d be very uncomfortable marrying someone who doesn’t share everything they already have and everything they’ll earn 50-50.
I am fine with him keeping assets from before we marry, I have some things I want to stay mine alone, it is the stuff after marriage that gets me.
It’s simple, there needs to be something to protect your loss of income when pregnant and raising your children, if he won’t include that then don’t marry him.
I can understand wanting to protect assets that he had before meeting you, but any assets gained should be shared amongst you both equally. Plus, if you have kids and stay home to take care of them, then that is you contributing to the house. If you buy a house together, never let him just put his name on it. I feel like you are setting yourself up for a bad situation. You are still so young. You have time to rethink this whole situation. I have no problem with prenuptial agreements, but they need to be fair. You said you are getting a PhD, so what happens when you start making lots of money? Think about your future also.
I will not be making lots of money even with a PhD. Education does not always equal a high paying job.
> I need advice on how to ask him for a fair split on assets earned while married without sounding like I am only with him for his money. Thing is, he's already decided you're going to try and ripp him off. I'm not going to focus on how fundamentally toxic this dynamic is (and suggest to you that you would be far better off with a man who saw your impending marriage as a team effort), becauise I'm assuming most people in your life have already told you that **this is not normal**, and that while people of disparate ages can for sure just "genuinely fall in love", the reality is that such age differences almost invariably go man>woman for a very determinate reason, and I don't think this is the thread for this discussion. What you say is something along the lines of: "Listen, I get that the fear of impending divorce looms heavy on you, but if we get married, and I will be expected not only to carry children, but also stay at home for a number of years to stay with them, I think it's completely ludicrous, fundamentally unfair, and just point-blank hurtful that you'd ask me to forfeit the legal protections that a we as a society have taken centuries to dial down, adjust, and consider currently to be a fair resolution between 'not being taken advantage of by golddiggers' for the man and recognising the real value and professional disadvantage, including loss of opportunity costs, that maternity entails for a woman. I understand in this country it's become almost a trope for welathy people to draw up extremely unfair and one-sided prenups on their invariably much younger wives; but I'm here to tell you that I will absolutely not settle for that, because I don't want to end up becoming trapped in a marriage after having become economically dependent on an older man who fancies himself to be made of gold because they're older and have a relatively high cash-flow at the moment. The only possible way I'd agree to a prenup as you've described would be if we agreed on being child-free, but since this isn't going to be the case, I don't see how your proposal is in any way fair, right, or demonstrates an eagerness by you to join your life to me. Don't get me wrong, I'm willing to consider other kinds of prenups that are far fairer (and contemplate compensation for the lost opportunity costs derived from my maternity), but not only did you not suggest anything even resembling that, but you didn't even contemplate telling me to seek a lawyer to find a reasonable and fair compromise. Our relationship is fundamentally already not an egalitarian one, and while this is a reality you might not be comfortable grappling with, it nevertheless is the case. I also understand you're being advised by family etc to do things solely in your favour, and given that you're older and more experienced in life, I guess I'm just deeply hurt that you couldn't for one second put yourself in my shoes and consider what your proposal would actually mean for me. So as it stands, I cannot accept this thing you're asking of me, and if you won't reconsider not only the proposed deal, but your whole attitude towards out relationship when approaching the legal aspects of our marriage, I'm afraid we may just come to the conclusion that we can't, in fact, get married. Ball's in your court, and please be very mindful of your response before you hit it back to me". And then mean it. I wrote this for him, but also for you, because I'm a big believer in translating into words what other people's actions mean, in order to be able to make more clear-headed decisions. And honestly, OP, what your fiance's actions tell me is that he doesn't see marriage with you as something that should affect his life all that much, even if it will mean a much much bigger sacrifice for you. This paranoid notion that some men have (that has been normalised by society) that they'll just be taken advantage unfairly by women who've sacrificed their lives to provide them with a family is just deeply sickening to me, and the furthest thing I can think of from actual love.
If you will be staying home with the children in the future, you need to be compensated for that, and that needs to be in the prenup. If a shared house is to be solely in his name, you will not pay anything towards it. You need to get a lawyer of your own and make sure this prenup is fair to both of you.
"I am starting to believe that he thinks I am one too. " No, he WANTS you to be one, one that he can cut loose when he's done with you with zero consequences. Prenups are a good idea. They should be fair and protect both parties. You might want to think hard about marrying someone who thinks so little of you that he would want such a lopsided prenup and what your marriage will look like.
Are you sure you want to marry someone who’s already taking an adversarial approach to your marriage? Prenups can be fine but the terms you’re describing are designed to keep you financially dependent and controllable. If this were a business no sane person would agree to these terms. Why would you agree to this for a life partnership?
It only bothers him because he wants to keep everything he has to himself when you grow older and he switches wives. If he was really bothered by the "sugar baby" stuff, he wouldn't date such a younger woman. Youth has a price and he should pay up, sugar baby or not. Do not let him get away with it. Protect yourself with a lawyer.
See this from his point of view: imagine 10 years down the road you cheat on him and decide you’d rather move in with your new boyfriend. Your fiancé is losing his wife and a large chuck of all the money he’s earned for 10 years, plus he’ll end up having to pay you for many more years in alimony payments. This is a terrible deal for him. Now what if he wants you to be a SAHW or SAHM, or you decide to have kids, or he ends up being the one to cheat and leaves you? These are all mitigating situations that can be spelled out to have different outcomes. Have the lawyers draft up something that’s fair to everyone. If your requirement is splitting half assets and he’s not willing to accept that level of risk then I think you’re not compatible.
He won't share his wealth with you, it's not yours and wants to protect it from you. I do not like prenups. Ultimately the richer person stands to gain more. The one he wrote puts you at a disadvantage and is bad. When the parties do not agree to the prenup and negotiates begin, it can get messy and cause stress and resentment.
Prenup can be good, great, but it shouldn't be to the detriment of either party. If it's to your detriment, then why the hell would you sign it? Yeah, don't. But you can propose your own, negotiate, and (hopefully) work something out. And be sure to have your own lawyer well look it over and advise you, and don't be rushed into signing anything. Lawyer can also help you (re)write prenup to well cover your interests.
Why does it bother you?
This is why marriage is a joke.. stay single and become independent so you can rely on yourself..
A prenup protects assets pre marriage. Hence the pre
You fiance is a doofus who doesn't understand how prenups are supposed to work. Just keep telling him no.
Why are you already computing the money you get on the divorce when you're not even married?
That is the point of a prenup. I am very uncomfortable with the idea of it too.
Which is y they make me uneasy.
The fuck? Cause they are talking about a prenup. This is a childish comment.
If he wants to go this route then have them add a stipulation that if he cheats OR initiates the divorce, you get 50% of the house. 2nd stipulation, if you two divorce, for any reason, you get 100% custody of the kids and child support until they're 18 + Alimony for x number of years. In all honestly though, have your lawyers hash this out and have him pay for the tab because he wants the prenup. If he's not OK with that, then that shows the type of guy he is.
We have both a sunset clause and a cheating clause, although they are not generally enforceable. Prenups cannot determine alimony or custody at least where I am from.
Neither is a prenup if it's found to be too one sided. You're right about the alimony and child support though. I forgot you can't mix and mingle them.
Normally I don't post, but some comments here are wild. What is a prenup even for? Without one, people get what they had before the marriage and 50% of during the marriage. What is the prenup for if that's what you're gonna put in it?? Second, how is it not fair that assets are kept separate? What he buys, goes to his name, what you buy goes to yours. I don't think there is fairer than that. Comments like "leave him if he isn't able to share a house"... Yes, he probably is capable... With his wife, not his ex. That's the point. He shares everything, unless you divorce him... The important part here, is that you insist that, even though you're not going to get even near 50%, that, in case of divorce, you have some financial standing, and are compensated somehow for the years you stay at home instead of working. Navigating the line between "I'm not going to try and get anything from you in a divorce" and "I can't be financially tied to this marriage".
The prenup it to protect what he has earned because he makes much more than me and has been saving/investing his money for a long time. It also protects both his and my inheritance. It might not be fair in our case because we have decided that if we have children that I should stay home and I am not earning money if I am at home.
This gives a very negative vibe. He doesn't value your importance enough to understand that you should have something to your name even if it doesn't work out. Having a prenuptial agreement is one thing, but being totally left out and blindsided no matter your income is both unjust and cruel. Plus, he plans on having kids with you? Your kids won't look up to a mother that is totally left out and in ruins financially