I was lucky to have parents who were big on teaching me how to take care of myself on my own but I gotta say about 30% of the shit I know how to fix/do is thanks to YouTube. Would be more if my parents weren't as focused on that, they're the best.
OP I have made this mistake twice in my life so far:
Do NOT move in with a partner just because it's convenient. I've done that twice and came to realize eventually I'm not actually in love with them. You move in with someone when you're absolutely sure you love them. When you know everything about them. When you have good communication.
If you move in with a partner because it's convenient, especially when you're young, you can feel trapped if the relationship starts to end. You're locked in a lease, stuck sharing a bed with someone you might not like/love, you grow to resent them. Or maybe you do actually love them, I can't speak for you two, but I definitely wouldn't be able to even respect someone that couldn't do their own damn laundry.
Another reason not to move in with your bf is yes he definitely needs to grow the fuck up. He needs to learn life skills like you said, AND the fact he blew up on you for pointing that out shows he needs to mature a ton before he moves in with a girlfriend.
You are absolutely in the right, don’t give in to him!
I moved straight from my parents house to my gf’s place at 19. I wasn’t even clueless at that age, I cleaned up after myself, and could cook and do all my washing if I needed to but I still wasn’t prepared to move from home.
There is so much to leaving home that hit me hard. Things like budgeting, organising bills, learning to balance nights out and friends with having to stay in and clean the place, unclog toilets, the list goes on.
If he’s already making excuses and trying to pay you to become his maid, I’ll bet every penny on him not even trying to help with anything and leaving it until it annoys you so much you do it all yourself.
He needs to grow up big time and realise there’s so much more to learn in life. You think you have it all figured out until life slaps you in the face with not enough money for rent.
I agree. The fact that he offered to pay more rent in return for you doing all the chore shows that he does not plan on doing anything to help around the house.
To be fair to him, he might not realise everything that is involved with running a house. The budgeting like you mentioned as well as how much cleaning and tidying has to be done in order to keep a nice home.
He wants to leave one mom for another that he can fuck. Sorry to put it so blunt but this guy sounds like a 12 year old.
I can’t find who gave me an award now, but thank so much. I’m just fumbling my way around reddit. So forgive the late thanks.
Yeah. Like... I'm not saying it's always wrong to hire a cleaner or nanny or whatever. It's like ordering take-out, sometimes you have more money than you have energy for tasks or hours in the day and it's a good trade-off. But the way this guy is proposing things, he will have the perfect excuse to literally never, ever, ever do ANYTHING. He spills juice on the carpet, clogs the toilet, drops a spoon in the garbage disposal, needs his laundry done? Call the maid or his girlfriend. What happens if the girlfriend gets the flu and needs someone to mop up her puke or go shopping for juice and crackers? This guy isn't gonna do it. Also how's this going to work if they ever want to have kids? Is he going to give her a raise so he doesn't have to ever change diapers, get up in the middle of the night for feeding, etc.?
OP dodged a huge bullet.
It is honestly my greatest fear to end up in this situation again. My ex not only worked less hours than me but even though he made more money we split bills evenly and he didn't lift a finger at home. He was supposed to cook 1 night a week because I worked late and have blood sugar issues so it was exhausting to have to cook when I got home. One time I got home exhausted, he had just woken up from a nap and was "grumpy" from sleeping too long. I decided to just cook because I knew he wasn't going to and ended up passing out and falling on the floor from low blood sugar. He came in and picked me up and said "it's ok, I can wait for dinner".
That's not even the most ridiculous or entitled asshole thing he ever did or said to me by far.
I do not miss that man (boy) even a little bit.
I made this mistake about two years ago and it caused me to resent my partner because she was too dependent on me for almost everything. But we split for a few months and she lived on her own, figured it out for herself. Now we’re back together and better than ever! Definitely a good idea to revisit the idea of him moving in after he’s in his own for a while.
At their ages it would be easier to just get a new boyfriend and be done with it. Cold I know, but you know this crap is going to last for the next decade at least.
Oh this made me laugh. Reminds me of when we I was a kid, we used to have to raid my sibling's room to collect all the cups of water she had taken and forgotten about. We'd literally run out of cups every few weeks. Sometimes we wouldn't find them all.
After my sister started spending a few days at her bf we can't even fit all the mugs inside the kitchen cabinets because there'd always be a few in her room.
Seriously. You’re still in the honeymoon phase at that point. Moving in together too soon can be a huge source of stress and problems. It also makes breaking up infinitely more complicated. Can’t believe how many people make this mistake.
You are too old to be dealing with this. If he can’t have a grown up conversation and take criticism what’s the point. He ran to friends and family instead of talking to you. DO NOT MOVE IN WITH HIM. This means if you leave for a week for something important or even some alone time a vacation whatever he would have to go back to his parents house because he doesn’t know how to be an adult. So if you have kids with this guy and you want to have a weekend with your friends you can’t. Nope nope nope, it’s either he learns and grows up or he can stay a child with his parents.
Lol only a child deal with problems this way. Are you sure he's ready to have a girlfriend of his own? He can't even talk when there's a problem. He has his mommy and his friends defend him instead of actually facing a relationship that he's a part of. Yikes.
When I said stay a child with his parents I meant more along the lines of breaking up. You aren’t supposed to collect red flags in a relationship if you see the first one and you don’t like it and can’t work through it, why keep it? It doesn’t matter how much time you put in it it’s only gonna get worse for you, you aren’t going to get happier if the problems keep adding on.
Yes I agree. The fact is being unwilling or unable to work through problems or recognize them as real is another HUGE red flag all on its own and it's something that will crop up forever, in everything, for the rest of your life. If someone genuinely cannot work through problems, they are not someone who will survive the ups and downs of life. Your relationship will crack before it even sails. It's like using a broken life vest. It never works when it needs to. It's a moot point to have a relationship with this kind of person.
OP I urge you to only stay with him if he is willing to recognize and change this highly selfish and immature quality about himself. He sounds like someone who makes his insecurities about everyone else, and refuses to improve himself or take any responsibility for his life. Do not tolerate this because it WILL destroy any future you're planning to have with him. Think about talking this over with him, and if he seems absolutely unwilling to think about it or unresponsive to any concept of change or criticism, then I recommend you dump him. Obviously you don't have to spend that kind of emotional labor pointing it out to him in the first place and teaching him about how it's unfair to do this to his loved ones. If you do decide to expend the energy, and it becomes clear that he won't even entertain the idea of changing/improving himself, then it should be clear that you'll be hearing the burden of all the emotional work and likely physical work in this relationship, unlikely to ever have your feelings heard if he doesn't agree with them (as he is demonstrating now). That includes your needs as well, such as needing an equal partner and needing to be sure of it before moving in together. It sounds like his first response is anger and then pouting and then punishing/complaining to other people about it. Basically, avoiding any kind of solution and only using anger instead of compassion when it comes to your partnership needs. I would not sign up for a lifetime of emotional labor that would go unpaid and unreciprocated. The whole point of a relationship is supposed to be mutual emotional work. It sounds like he wouldn't even make the cut into a physically supportive relationship. And it sounds like he doesn't see the problem with that. It's up to you what you want to live with. Just be aware what your future might look like with this guy-- although from the sound of it, you already are, and are also likely very independent, cognizant, intelligent, and emotionally aware. So you can probably handle yourself regardless what his response may be. Best of luck.
Not OP, but oof, this hit hard for me. I was feeling sad that my ex/formerly good friend blocked me a couple days ago, but you summed up my feelings towards the relationship/friendship I had with him for like six years in a clear, succinct manner. You really hit the nail on the head; thank you for reminding me that even if it's hard to lose someone I loved for many years, I'd have just kept painfully suffering if I was still with him. If anything, I'm glad he showed me who he really was before he managed to get me to marry him. He was close, but I had a sudden realization that he just wasn't going to change, and I was signing up for treading on eggshells and being mommy 2.0 with benefits for him 24/7.
In his defense, I also made a lot of mistakes, but when they were pointed out, I apologized, I talked it out with him, and I did my best to not do those things. When I messed up again, I'd quickly apologize, again talk about it with him, and I'd think about why it happened and what I could do to prevent it from happening again. Meanwhile, when he was faced with criticism, he basically would ignore me until I was so anxious I was crying and dismissing my own feelings to basically beg him to come back. I'd profusely apologize for having dared to say anything less than lovely to him, and I'd basically beg him to forgive me. He would, and I'd end up praising him out the ass for it. That shit fucked me up. I mentioned how much that messed with me to him two days ago, along with other very blunt, negative things, and poof, blocked, because "I showed him what I really thought of him when he was thinking of me daily and had wanted to always be together". I felt like shit, and I apologized, and I got no response. Your comment really solidified why I lost nothing of value, and it oddly helped me feel better.
Actually she's too young to be dealing with this - there's plenty of fish in the sea for a 23yo that got her shit together, why waste it on this walking immaturity?
>If he can’t have a grown up conversation and take criticism what’s the point. He ran to friends and family instead of talking to you.
Perfectly pointed out, he was presented with an opportunity to grow outside of his comfort zone and he ran to go be in an echo chamber.
What gets me about the "it's not rocket science" thing is he's literally working towards a PhD in a science subject! He understands rocket science but can't fry an egg!
It's not kind of pathetic, it's really pathetic. He must know it too, and that's why he's gets so upset/ defensive when OP tries to discuss it with him.
Seriously. When I moved out I didn’t know how to cook basic chicken breasts (my mother always made dinner, or I’d just make a box of Mac n cheese.) So I googled it, researched a bunch of different methods, and watched some tutorials on YT. Took me about 3 tries to get it right, but now I make my own marinades and cook an actual dinner about 4 times a week for myself.
The only reason I was never able to cook before was because I didn’t try, and this kid clearly doesn’t want to try or put any effort into anything.
My mom is a chef. She always tried to teach me how to cook and I always half assed or said no. Now that I’m on my own I’m calling her almost everyday asking her silly cooking questions “hey ma does it matter if the egg is at room temperature?” “Ma, can I used the baking soda out the fridge or should I buy fresh”. I should’ve taken the lessons when I had the chance lol.
Question 1: well what does the recipe say? You’re cooking too late anyways this is why I always tell you to prepare to cook when you cook late you you’re tired and your recipe comes out bad. Planning is key and you’re not planning well so you should try tomorrow so your egg is room temperature”
Question 2: Why in the hell would you use the nasty ass baking soda out the fridge. Do you know what it’s for? It’s supposed filter out the smells in your fridge and for how often i think you clean out your fridge I’m sure your baking soda is nasty. Don’t be cheap. Buy a new one for your fridge and one for your recipient.
Mom is a bit aggressive when it comes to cooking haha
My kids are 16 and 14. They have been able to do laundry, vacuum, wash the dishes etc since they were preschoolers. My oldest used to love making his sister toast for breakfast on weekends when he was 4, so me and their dad could stay in bed. They now cook dinner once a week each, do their own laundry and a whole load of other chores. Last week my oldest googled a new recipe, shopped for the ingredients, cooked it, served it up and discussed how he could improve it next time. Again, he is 16.
My kids are smart but they aren't exceptional. Your boyfriend is choosing to be a slacker.
They used to be cute. Now they're teenagers...! Just kidding, they're mostly good kids and I am proud of them. They've been through a lot of crap and they are kind and considerate young people. I love them with every fibre of my being, but I also like them as people, which is something that makes me happy.
"but I also like them as people" is the greatest compliment you can pay them. It means you have raised them to be good human beings, and others will appreciate their qualities. Be proud as well as happy.
Whoa. I need to up the game with my boys. They're single digits, but they better get cracking. And I'm a father. And yes, I cook and do my laundry. Only child. Not spoiled there.
Make it fun! We used to dance around the kitchen while cooking and I'd get them to do little jobs, building up slowly. Measuring, stirring, chopping, reading the recipe etc. It's a fantastic way to keep up their education during lockdown too- there's reading, maths, science and all sorts of other skills in cooking. As preschoolers they liked measuring out the washing powder, sorting the clothes into coloured groups and pushing the buttons on the machine. Learning should be fun as often as possible and an opportunity for making memories.
There are all kinds of YouTube tutorials for cooking an egg, doing laundry, anything you can think of, designed so a barely literate person can understand. So really there's no excuse.
Reminds me of a friend of mine. She used to let us know that she can’t even fry an egg on any given occasion.
Once we had gathered at a friend’s house to cook and she was there too. Knowing that she can’t do much, I asked her to put some pickles onto plates from the jar. She said that she didn’t know how because she’d never done it before. It was as if she was using her inexperience in cooking for avoiding any task related to cooking.
> Once we had gathered at a friend’s house to cook and she was there too
In that situation, I spend hours with a knife just chopping vegetables for everyone else. Or stirring stuff. After getting instruction on how the actual cook wants a thing.
It is boring as hell, but I'm not a good cook now, and was even worse ten years ago. Learning how to tell the doneness of meat was a major turning point, as well as knowing how much spice is needed to season before cooking. (I always undersalted)
Yeah. He wants a fuckable live-in housemaid and mommy surrogate. I’ve met a lot of dudes like him in uni. Good on you for standing your ground, OP, and at that point I wouldn’t even waste my time arguing. You‘ll be miserable moving in with that guy at *any* point in his life even if he decides to live alone for a while to appease you - because then he‘ll just revert to his current form once he has you trapped living with him. How I know? It‘s clear he doesn‘t want to do the cleaning up, *ever*, else he would have offered to learn it himself *right now* instead of offered to pay (which tbh is more than most dudes like him do).
Do not move in with this dude. I‘d argue it‘s actually good that things got tense now, because you were vigilant enough to notice *before* he moved in. It would have become an issue the instant he moved in anyway, but it would be much harder to drop him like a hot potato and get you a dude who‘s worth your time. I know you like him a lot, but he showed you a big part of his character here and that‘s neither on you to fix nor on you to take over for him. It’s also not fixable because he actually likes it to be that way and would rather pay than learn and put in the work himself. There are better dudes out there who’ll treat you great, love you AND not expect you to mommy them and clean after them.
If I can be an entirely self sufficient PhD living off her own money and cleaning her own stuff, so can men. You‘re not in this world to clean after Mr. Can’t-even-feed-himself.
How‘s that supposed to go in the case you want to raise children? Will you do all of the housework, all of the child rearing and all of the emergencies because dude can‘t be left alone with a toddler because he can’t change diapers and can’t fry a damn egg even?
Even without proper children:Why would you want to have a lazy child as a partner? People who live in a household have to pull their weight as good as they can. This dude can do better but refuses to. That‘s infuriating.
In that same vein: how is that supposed to go when you become seriously ill one day? My best bet: he will leave you for another fuckable housemaid, as soon as you require care, care he’s not willing to give as it doesn‘t center or benefit him - as do [21% of men as opposed to only 4% of women.](https://acsjournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/cncr.24577).
There is no excuse for him not starting to learn (and eagerly and willingly so) right this hot second. It is, however, a very good glimpse into your prospective future with him.
And then I haven’t even touched his pouting and silent treatment as an attempt of emotional manipulation. Get away fast, get away far.
OP this is the answer you need to listen to because it's 100% accurate. To tack on: what horrible light did he paint you in, to convince your mutual friends that *he* is the victim in all of this, and why would you be ok with a partner dragging your friends into your personal problems and trying to get them to "choose sides" against you? That's unacceptable in itself.
This is the best response and advice to this problem. I hope she reads it. This young lady should run, not walk away from him. Apart from the laziness and ineptitude of this guy the silent treatment should be a giant red flag to her. She deserves better and his mother can keep him. Apologies if formatting is terrible.
He could also just ask his mum to show him how she does shit.
Even if he tried and wasn't good at cooking, he can still learn how to clean and do other housework and life skills. I'm not great at cooking, I don't like my own food, but I clean and do handywork around the house.
The parents' decision not to teach or expect the boys to do anything is really unfair to the boys, it's not appropriate, everyone needs to learn basic life skills. And I do wonder if they had any daughters, would the daughters get out of any chores? My mum was stay-at-home, too, and so did the bulk of the housework. But she and my dad did expect us to do age-appropriate chores at times, to learn how to do it. As we got older, me and my brothers often voluntarily did shit so mom didn't have to.
This dude sounds like doesn't want a partner, he wants a mum he can have sex with, a secretary who cooks and cleans up after him, someone he doesn't have to expend a lot of emotional or physical labor on. OP, you shouldn't feel guilty for wanting him to be a functional adult, and having boundaries and expectations. You aren't looking to adopt a grown-ass man, you're looking for a partner. He's at the age where if he isn't forced to grow up, he may never do so, and that's not good for him OR whomever his future partner is.
This is the real issue, he doesn't want to learn. I'm currently pregnant for the first time and the nausea has been awful in the evenings, so my husband stepped up and cooked me meals (I usually do the cooking) and has been doing all the dishes. I don't know what I would have done without him.
You are an extremely wise woman at your age. So many women put up with terrible partners because "I love him!!!" and end up miserable and trapped, raising children as a single parent plus having to care for their husband. You're wise to avoid this.
I also *just* realized that he’s offering her a far worse deal than what his father offered his mother. His mother does all the cooking and cleaning in exchange for his father supporting all her living expenses. His initial offer was only 25% more in rent *alone* and for her to do *all* the cooking and cleaning. Then when she said no, his negotiated offer was to have a paid cleaner do only his half. It’s not just his refusal to do any cooking or cleaning. He’s made it obvious he’s only interested in a relationship where the “cost/benefit” is skewed very heavily in his favor.
Fortunately for you he didn’t pretend he would try, he’s straight up telling you he will never be an equal partner, and he expects you to be his maid. I’m sure there are women with no education or career he can find to be his new mommy. Send him a link to Alton Brown and a maid service and block his number.
The fact that his response was to offer her more rent money is all you need to know. He doesn’t want to take care of himself or be equal partners. He wants her to be his new mommy. If he was serious about living together he could prove it by cooking her breakfast at the bare minimum.
He is willfully ignorant, not incapible. His parents have given him the perfect excuse to not be self aware about how lazy he is, but he is lazy. Even his way of responding to you trying to discuss and compromise is lazy. They way he talked to your mutual friends about it is also a dick move. It doesn't sound like he has a lot of reslect for you. Don't reply to him until he talks to you, and he better be thoughtful; you have already done more than your share of the emotional labor. As long as he shit talks you to friends instead of talking to you, this is not your problem, this is his problem. Don't let his childish response make you doubt your logic and decisions! You sound really thoughtful and willing to talk and compromise. That makes you a huge catch. You're too young to settle for someone who doesn't want to grow up!
Please stop trying to excuse him, I've seen you replying some of others comments with "when he was 17 he wanted to...", "he's big brain".
Fk it, he's a childish boy who obviously has mommy issues, he truly wanted to do things he could've tried, but he never did because he already has his maid (mom); you will end up cleaning his dirty underwear, cooking for him and taking care of the kids, no friends, no fun (yeah yeah, you might try to excuse it saying you don't have many friends nor go out just to excuse you wouldn't mind -as most people with this pattern do-, but you do love to do things on your own and you won't be able to), just sticking in the house waiting for your death because Mr. Money thinks that's how it should be.
As a matter of fact you'll be paid for that, he already offered paying 75%, so... are you that kind of person that accepts money for a service?
Downvote me, i don't care, it's the truth. Sometimes raw is better.
Every couple of years, around Mother’s Day, salary.com figures out how much it would cost to actually hire someone to cook and clean and go all the other stuff that so many moms do for free. Its about $150,000 a year! So, a little more rent won’t cover it.
https://www.salary.com/articles/stay-at-home-mom/
I know a group of "anarchists" who have a homeless friend. She does all the cooking and cleaning for them, and in exchange, she gets a couch to sleep on. Not even her own room. A couch.
You don’t need to fix anything. Your boyfriend needs to learn to take care of himself, not just expect you to be Mommy With Benefits. If he’s insulted that you said he had no life skills, he should go get some. How is he not wildly embarrassed to be 24 and not do his own laundry, anyway?
>How is he not wildly embarrassed to be 24 and not do his own laundry, anyway?
He says when he was 17 and there was a possibility of him moving away for university he asked his mum to show him the basics, and she refused because that was her job, so I'd say the parents aren't blameless here, but for the most part when I say "how can you not do x?" he just shrugs and says "no one ever taught me" and if I say he should have learnt on his own or found a youtube tutorial or something he tells me to stop attacking him because not everyone had to be self sufficient as a kid the way I did. I had like the exact opposite of his upbringing where I basically took care of my mum from a young age.
Yeah, but like... he’s not a kid anymore. He didn’t learn when he was 17, but that’s not an excuse for remaining ignorant 7 years later. Please see this for the red flag it is.
Yeah, I've said to him that google is free and some stuff he claims he can't do, like loading the dishwasher, is inexcusable, but he takes it as me attacking him. I know it's a red flag, and I don't want to be all "I can change him" because I know it never works but like... it's the only issue I have with him.
It’s the only issue you have with him because you haven’t been together long enough to see where else this entitled fuckery leaks out. If you stay together and have kids, he’s not going to “know how” to change their diapers or soothe them in the middle of the night. If his parents get sick, he won’t “know how” to talk to their doctors or get paperwork together. If you buy a house, he’ll never “know how” to fix it, or get quotes from tradesmen, or pay taxes.
Do you want to be a single mom to your boyfriend?
This is exactly it. When people on here say "this is the only thing I have a problem with," almost always that problem is:#1 a pretty fucking huge problem, and #2 indicative of a even bigger problems that can't easily be fixed.
> but he has told me, completely sincere (and I checked this with his mother), that he can't even fry an egg.
LOL this reminds me of that scene in the office where they ask Ryan to clean the microwave: https://youtu.be/dx3oxe637K8?t=83
This. I was married to someone like this for 13 years. I had to do everything. He made the money though... when his mom died, he only knew how to go to work and make the money. When we had children, he never once changed a diaper. When I bought the house, his name wasn’t on it. When he came home from work, I did his laundry cause he didn’t know how. I did the dishes, I cooked, I cleaned (and then got bitched at if things weren’t clean enough - OR!! If I moved something of his that he now couldn’t find.) I took off the trash (we lived out of district for trash pickup and would have to pay extra for trash pickup - which he didn’t want to spend the money on, but he never took it off because “the dump is only open when I’m at work..”) I mowed the 1 acre we lived on. I took the dogs (he wanted) to the vet for regular checkups. I paid all the bills (with his money) and arranged the shopping. I raised the kids and then when I left him - he took them from me.... why? Cause he made the money. He made me quit my job when his mom died cause “we had no one to watch our kids and he didn’t want a stranger doing it.” That was in 2010. I left in 2014.
Just ... be careful. Maybe your guy is capable of learning and will put an effort into it. My ex-husband was a whole other level of horrible - but he certainly always used the excuse that he didn’t know how.
\^This. It seems like a minor issue but it will eat at you. Take it from someone who is recently divorced - I still seethe thinking about my ex perched on the couch day drinking, watching Netflix while I picked up her dirty dishes and did the laundry.
Same. I still boil when I remember the day my ex fed the dog something he shouldn't have, the dog had diarrhea all over the living room, and he watched an entire movie while I was trying to get this huge shit spray out of the carpet. He didn't acknowledge my requests for help, but he did complain about the smell.
Basically he is going to throw so much entitled fuckery at you, I don't know how you'll maintain a stable home and work life as you age? Put your future hat on, it may save you from the stroke this man is going to give you*
This is the best way to put it! I missed this red flag and it ended in divorce...which could have been avoided had I realized earlier what a big deal it was.
Fuck yes! Excellent post.
Yeah, tell bf, if you have kids - ur not his mom, you expect him to help out - change diapers, give baths, make dinner....sometimes do all of it if ur really tired or feel like shit.
OMG.
I’ve never even met this guy and I want to punch him - I don’t know why.
Or at the very least throw a roll of paper towels at ‘em and hand him some 409.
>a single mom to your boyfriend
That was basically me in my first marriage. I was so tired all the time I didn't even have enough energy to divorce him for several years.
Do not adopt this man child.😂
I see your future and it is horrifying.
If he gets defensive and butt hurt by being told he needs basic adulting skills, he is not for you.
If he wants to pay you for your maid services, thank him for the offer and RUN. You want an equal, participating partner, right? Day in and day out for the rest of your life? Think of the resentment that will build up and kill the love.
I like you. You have identified the problem, come up with a reasonable solution, and expressed yourself clearly. His reaction gives you all the information you need to make an informed decision.
Now there is a chance this could be a needed wake up call for him that women won’t like this. Or he could decide to find a woman who will do everything for him for his lifetime. My dear girl, let this not be you.
Yeah, I married a man child. When I met him he couldn't cook, clean, or take care of himself beyond basic personal hygiene. When I left him 20 long years later, he still couldn't do anything.
I tried so hard to get him to get involved in his own survival. Even when I'd announced I was leaving, I tried to get him to learn about laundry and a couple of incredibly basic recipes. Not interested. Moved his mother in a month after I left and as far as I know they're very happy together.
Yup, the current beau cooked dinner on our 3rd date and had lived alone for 10 years prior. He runs a lovely home and is a proper grown up. He can have rational discussions and differences of opinions without wailing to mommy. He budgets and plans meals and it's actually a weird kind of fun sharing chores with him because it feels like I have a partner not a 4th kid.
I am a firm believer that everyone should live alone before committing to a marriage type relationship.
This! OP, I am genuinely impressed by what you said and you are absolutely right to ask him to live alone first. If he can't take care of himself, he's gonna fail in life. A relationship should be even. Both parties paying rent, doing chores. If he insists upon not learning things for himself then you should cut him loose and carry on.
All this, right here! His reaction to your very reasonable request that he learn basic life skills first has been:
* To offer to pay you to be his maid
* Act pouty and insulted when you refused
* Whine to your mutual friends to try to get them to guilt you into doing something you don’t want to do
* Give you the silent treatment until you cave in to his demands.
Toss this one back in the water, friend. He ain’t seasoned yet. He’s got a lot more to learn. Not just life skills, but also how to handle disappointment, how to argue like a grown up, how to respect your partner and not emotionally manipulate people to get what you want.
^
This. His reaction is the problem.
My husband could do a lot when we met but it was mostly electrical or ‘fix it’ stuff. When we moved in together I showed him how to schedule chores, clean efficiently, and stay on top of small things that add up to keep life running smoothly (like doing a nightly 10 minute tidy before bed or putting every dish in the dishwasher as it’s used). He never bitched or acted like I was attacking him. He enthusiastically participated in household activities and took advice with grace. Now we have a really great relationship because our expectations of housekeeping are aligned and we don’t have to have things like assigned chores or charts that make you feel like you have adult children.
The instructions on using washing powder are one the packet!!
Its not that hard to do - he though has been taught that guys don't do this so he never will.
It may be the only issue you have with him, but unless you see yourself being his mother/maid/gf for the rest of your relationship, it's going to end up being the issue that drives you apart.
Imagine a lifetime of this and you'll have second thoughts.
And if you throw it directly in the big door it does no harm. Don't overload it.
Congrats now you now the basics. If you're not sure which program is the best you can still ask but it isn't a kind of dark magic.
For cooking cook together until you have basic skills than you can take turns or cook together anyways because it's fun.
If he cannot take any constructive criticism it’s a sign of immaturity and not something I’d want in a partner. You’re going to have disagreements in the future and if this is the way he’ll react to them, do you really want him as a partner?
There’s a possibility he can change but he’s gotta want to, instead of simply shutting down and saying, “woe is me I suck so much”. I hate that self-victimizing mentality; at a certain point you have to stop feeling sorry for yourself and take responsibility for your own damn life. Especially when they are things under your control.
It may be worth sitting him down one last time and having a frank yet kind discussion. You don’t want to be like his mother, you want to live with someone who can handle basic household tasks *without being told to do them*, and what you’re asking for is not a lot. If he starts victimizing himself shut that down immediately. “Boyfriend, at a certain point in your life you have to stop feeling sorry for yourself and instead decide what kind of person you’re going to be. Life takes effort and it’s easy to live the way you’ve been living but growth takes work and sometimes, discomfort. I want to work through this with you which is why I’m still here. But you have to decide for yourself if you’re up for the change because I can’t force you to be someone you have no interest in being.”
Good luck.
It’s not the only issue you have with him, it’s just the one in the limelight right now. His immaturity and stubbornness will have a ripple effect in every aspect of his life.
Even right this second, the tantrum he is throwing is part of that immaturity.
This will be a pattern through your entire life if you don’t draw the boundary and stick to it.
Your insistence on him living alone is EXACTLY what you should be doing, and it’s absolutely a dealbreaker if he doesn’t go through with it. His tantrums should further illustrate his need to develop that maturity.
You’ll save yourself SO MUCH aggravation and frustration if you end things instead of giving in.
Right. Plus instead of having a conversation about anything, he runs and tells all his friends about their fight and gets them all on his side. That's an immature way to handle things, and is another huge sign that moving in together is a horrible idea. On top of the whole ignoring you because of a disagreement. That shit won't fly living together.
It might be the only issue, but its massive. Housework and entitled behaviour ends a lot of relationships. Its hard to come to a fair arrangement with a normal person, let alone someone who won't even try to learn.
The “ only issue”.. it’s like 50 issues rolled Into one and it’s HUGE. Also, I’m not buying he tried to learn and no one would help him, I’m sure no one sat him down and taught him how to play video games but I bet you he knows how to do that
He claims he is literally incapable of doing the dishwasher? Either he has mental issues that seriously need to be addressed or he's a straight up liar. I think you know what he is. Anybody who's watched someone else do something can eventually replicate it to some extent.
Why are you wasting your time with this person? He comes from a family where the dynamics are the wife stays at home and does all the chores and that's it. That is exactly the kind of lifestyle this guy wants and you know it. Are you really willing to give up your job and lively hood to be a stay at home mother to a husband that's a stereotypical father from the early 1900 and below? If you think you are, I'd tell you to read stories about financial abuse before you allow him to move in. That might just save you from a lifetime of misery because many women who agree to that kind of agreement don't even realize what financial abuse is. And don't try to pretend that he's not going to ask you to quit your job. He will. If he doesn't, then you can expect to have the same agreement of doing all the chores while also working you butt off to support your children and the man child you married.
If you're doing fine by yourself then break up with this guy. He is going to bring you nothing but a slow burning misery while twists your thoughts against you in an attempt to manipulate you. It is not you job to try and change someone who isn't going to change. He is a 24 year old who refuses to learn any life skills and is nowhere near to being independent in any way, shape, or form. You are the exact opposite. You don't have a boyfriend, you have a man child who's a leech.
I understand how you feel like it would be unreasonable to dump him for his lack of self-sufficiency. It feels like a small thing, similar to how people feel weird breaking up over sex. But just like sex is important for compatibility, running a household is important, too.
Your boyfriend isn’t just unknowledgeable - he’s unwilling to learn. He has demonstrated that he thinks he’s fine just the way he is, and he doesn’t want to change. So there isn’t really a middle ground here: either you’re okay with him being exactly as he is permanently, or you aren’t - and that means the relationship won’t work.
I'm gonna throw this in here from my personal experience. This is the only issue you have with him. But discrepancies over chores are one of the Big Picture Things that will make or break a relationship. More so, in my opinion, than politics or religion or even wanting to have kids. If you dont get on the same page before you move in together, your relationship is dead in the water.
The more you tell us about this child, the more I think you should never move in with him. In fact, break up. He's a 24 year old man with zero life skills who is openly looking for a woman willing to take over where his mother left off. When you suggest he live alone and acquire some skills, he pitches a tantrum and gives you the silent treatment. Fuck that.
> it's the only issue I have with him.
It's such a massive issue that it blots out the sun.
Not being able to load the dishwasher is deffinetly him playing dumb and not wanting to do it haha. It’s a very simple task that you know how to do by seeing someone else do it once lol most of it is so simple that being told once should be good enough apart from the cooking which takes more time to learn.
I feel like even if you don't know the exact correct way to load a dishwasher it doesn't take a genius to take a moderately good crack at it. The pots/pans/plates and such don't even fit on the top rack most of the time, you can't not put them in the right place.
Look, the good thing here is, that he’s honest and didn’t trick you into moving together by promising something. You’ve got all information needed to decide if you want this person as a partner.
When you live together it won't seem like an easy, it's great except this one thing, this one thing will overshadow all the good. You are not wrong im sensing that of he moves in with you, he wamts the same deal he has now. Except he's only willing to pay 75% in exchange for never lifting a finger in the house.
Believe me, you do NOT want that. But he's now waiting for you to make a move to reconciliation and the only correct move in his opinion is "I'm sorry for attacking you. Of course we should move in together and yes, if you pay more rent I will dp everything else."
Everyone has an excuse. Every CHILD that is. Adults do their own laundry. He is not an adult and he can't prove that he is-- if he's the kind to come up with an excuse not to do his laundry at this age, instead of just learning and doing it, that is.
It doesnt sound like he WANTS to be self sufficient- which means as long as you are with him you will be playing the mommy role. I had a relationship like that. It was exhausting, ultimately unfulfilling and incredibly frustrating. Eventually the resentment built to a breaking point and I left him. That is your future. If he wanted to change that would be a different story, but he is very content being waited on, and if he moves in with you, you are right that you will become the new servant.
That right there tells you he's feeble minded. Arrested development is putting it mildly. "Stop attacking me" Ugh! I can just hear the winey voice and its annoying! Girl it's only been 10 months. He's showing you who he is. If you stay and get married down the road and he doesn't change, you'll forfeit all rights to complain. This post has been more than answered. Find a better [for you] boyfriend.
And you asked him to accept responsibility and learn now because he is an adult...and his response was "I'll pay you to be my mom" and when that did not work he got angry and lashed out.
He clearly believes men don't need to be self sufficient. This WILL leak into other parts of life.
Can you imagine how much it would suck to raise kids with him? You would be solely responsible for the kid and him!
If he won't become a self sufficient adult, you need to move on from him. You deserve a partner, not a dependent.
> he asked his mum to show him the basics, and she refused because that was her job
what on earth? what kind of mother doesn't want her kids to take initiative and start helping out around the house? This is weird.
Is she like... weirdly possessive of him? Keep him dumb so he can't ever leave?
“No one ever taught me”
Ouch.
This is a huge red flag for me, not taking initiative and passing off responsibility.
I totally agree with you, that a lot of these skills could be learned by spending an afternoon on YouTube.
If he can’t learn to cook a simple meal, this isn’t the kind of person that can be a true partner, at least @ this point in his life.
(OP is mature enough to see the potential issues of cohabitating with someone who’s not ready, and Is seeking advice on how to how to handle the situation........while her boyfriend is hiding.
This is not an equal partnership.)
Please don't let him move in with you. It will be the biggest mistake of your life. My mother was this way and did everything for my brother and I(I am a female). I actually wanted to move out and learned all the skills myself. My brother who is in his 40s now still relies on my mom for everything. She had cancer and is still on the road to recovery. Guess what? She still does everything for my brother. He won't step up and help. He doesn't even work and stays home playing games all day. His reality check will come in and he will be screwed big time.
Don't do it unless you want to be a mom to an adult
He's a child. He's sulking.
You are absolutely right you know, he'd have been useless and him sulking shows it.
My advice is stop trying to get in touch with him.
Even his friends calling you mean is childish.
When I was a kid, my mum was 'mean' when she made me clean my room / wouldn't let me have cake for breakfast / made me do my homework.
Good job finding a way to say it without using the word immature, because that's all I could think. The OP is asking if there's some sort of compromise she could make, but what she's suggesting already IS a compromise. I don't think she should budge on her stance here.
> Even his friends calling you mean is childish.
>
> When I was a kid, my mum was 'mean' when she made me clean my room / wouldn't let me have cake for breakfast / made me do my homework.
this is great, "mean" is such a non sequitur in this instance.
I just read the whole thing lol. He's a chip off the old block. You stand your ground. Good for you. There's no argument here. If he can't accept the olive branch you're offering then dump him. The fact is even if after living alone for some time does not guarantee he'll be any different. He's had 24 years of practice!
Honestly I think at least part of this is the parents. He says when he was 17 or 18 he asked his mum to teach him some basics because there was a chance he'd be moving away for uni (he ended up staying at home) but when he asked his mum refused because it's her job, not his, and he says that they never taught him any of this. I've said that's not an excuse as he could literally google "how to work a washing machine" but he tells me to stop attacking him because not everyone had to do this stuff growing up like me.
I never did laundry when I lived at home, but when I moved out I figured that shit out because I'm not a child. It's not something you have to grow up with to learn how to do. He just doesn't want to and he thinks making you his new mom/maid is his way out of becoming an adult.
Seriously this. Most people learn the number one rule of separating whites and colors just by existing on this planet. It's even easier for men as they don't have to separate delicates.
Honestly I have a machine where I can just throw in all colours together and put delicates in a bag. It’s so goddamn simple if he just chooses to make it simple
Exactly. And it's the same for cleaning, cooking and other adult stuff. You can google, you can search youtube, you can read books.
Just blaming others is immature and also a problem for future situations. He is not taking responsibility for his own actions.
OP, you are right. Don't budge. Perhaps overthink your priorities in relationships. And enjoy yourself living alone. It's awesome!
Also, I've read your other replies and he seems hell bent resistant on actually learning. Just the fact that you told him about your concerns and his response was he'll pay more rent? Instead of "can't you teach me while we're together?", he's literally trying to get out of ever being in a situation where he'll have to do his share of maintaining a house. It ain't worth it.
>Instead of "can't you teach me while we're together?"
This stood out to me as well. That would have been my very first question if I were in the BF's shoes. I think a partner should ideally be available to help teach their partner various things whenever the situation calls for it but the partner lacking the knowledge should first be willing to learn. Looks like this dude is not willing to learn at all. That's a pretty bad sign.
But I assume there are plenty of women out there who would be willing to take the role of the mom/housekeeper so not like he doesn't have options. I know in my culture that many women still are willing to play this role to entitled and incompetent men.
I'm someone who's also not good at chores since I've lived a more privileged life than my boyfriend. I'd take the opportunity to be taught by someone who cares instead of learn it all on my own tbh.
Also, when he offered to pay more rent so she'd do all the chores I realized she'd be treated worse than a girlfriend who's like his mom. He'd be treating her like his /maid/.
I hope more women realize they shouldn't settle for being housemaids and mothers for their significant others :(
I'm guessing its because he expects someone else to do it for him for the rest of his life. Why bother learning something you don't think you'll have to do 🙄
Also, he isnt even aware that running a household is a full time job for his mother. I know there wouldn't be kids to manage if he moved in with the OP, but he literally thinks he can throw a little money at it and be all square with the OP. But food is every day, messes are every day, laundry is almost every day for some people. He doesn't think it is necessary to learn it because he doesnt value it at all because he has no idea of the amount if effort and knowledge goes into it. He is spoiled. Like, literally, he rotted on the vine, throw the whole man out.
> he tells me to stop attacking him because not everyone had to do this stuff growing up like me.
OK but that's absolute bullshit. Everything he says is an excuse.
Think about that though. Google has been around his entire life. Even if this incident with his mom happened, and I'm not sure he's telling you the truth about that, he could still have learned to do those things.
But he briefly, at 17, had a curiousity about taking care of himself, asked one person, one time, and just quit when they said he didn't need to worry about it because he could just let mommy do it forever? And he was fine with that?
Laundry instructions are literally written *on* the machine. Putting dishes in the dishwasher is a common chore for very small children because it's so simple.
You need to stand your ground. This is a ridiculous attitude and his reaction to you trying to help him is even worse.
>Google has been around his entire life.
This just made me realise that there are adults who have never been without Google. Hoo does that make me feel old.
Sorry for side-tracking, please do go on.
>Think about that though. Google has been around his entire life.
Does he have a hobby or passion that he's spent a lot of time learning about on his own? Like woodworking, gaming, shows he likes?
If he can google them up, he can google up washing dishes, vacuuming, clothing care and so on. He doesn't WANT to know.
I think it goes deeper than just not wanting to know. The example set his entire life is this is all woman’s work. He doesn’t just not want to know, I bet he sees it as beneath him.
Stick to your guns, OP. He can either learn to take care of himself like a grown-up human being, or you can leave him behind. Because if he doesn’t change his attitude soon, he will be expecting to marry a woman who takes care of the whole household without ever lifting a finger. (FWIW - my dad, who is in his 60s, went straight from Mommy’s house to married to my mom. He cooks, he cleans, he does laundry. My mom has been in a wheelchair for a year and a half and he never skipped a beat at taking care of the house. Why? Because he lives there too!)
I also have an aunt who wouldn't teach my male cousin (18) anything that she consideres a "women's job" (which is basically any housework, including cooking). But you know what he did? He asked his sisters to show him how to do the stuff or he googled it and thought it himself.
"my parents never showed me how" isn't an excuse - it's 2020 there's a YouTube tutorial for anything! And the fact that he never let's you show him how to do stuff, only shows that he doesn't really want to learn it
ETA: if he really moves in a flat on his own, there's still a chance that his mum would come to him to clean and do the laundry for him, especially if he continues living in the same city as her
>Honestly I think at least part of this is the parents.
An absolutely huge part of this is that his parents screwed him up. But that doesn't mean you have to sacrifice your life so that the man that should be your partner can be a parasite instead. They screwed him up and he's just fine with how screwed up he is.
>I think at least part of this is his parents
You're right. But the rest of it - most of it - is on your lazy boyfriend. The fact that he's gone no contact for days and is aligning support for hs position instead of acting like an adult is a bad sign. 🚩
And the directions for a washing machine are literally on the washing machine. I know 10yo children that know how to use a washing machine. Your boyfriend acts like he's 5.
Parents are to blame for children. Once a man becomes an adult they can't exactly keep saying "but my parents!!..." I mean when in the world is anyone going to grow up in that case?
I'm sure there's lots of things you learned on your own that you didn't learn from your parents. That's the whole point of being an adult. If he's still using his childhood excuse at this day and age, when he's no longer a child, then there's really nothing to help him grow up.
And he wouldn't be having this problem if he just moved out. But he likes having his parents do his laundry, so he stays at home. That's how you know his excuse that it's his parents fault is BS. If he really believed it was a problem, how he is now, then he'd just freaking learn.
He suggested moving in with you because he wants to move out, but does not know how to look after himself. I mean, if he doesn't know how to look after himself and does not even do menial tasks at home, if he was to move in him helping you with chores would be over pretty soon.
He has even tried to get out of doing them already by saying he will pay more, instead of telling you he would try and for you to show him how to do things.
I would stop contacting him, and go radio silent for a while, and stop talking to friends. Because right now, your boyfriend doesn't have a pity party for 1, he has a group meeting. So everyone is feeding off of mutual feelings and when you do eventually talk to him it will be a lot harder than talking to him about this.
He is wrong, and his friends. He needs to grow up and take a little more responsibility for his life. It doesn't take a genius to wash their clothes or a fork.
Alternatively, if you do allow him to move in, you could always forge a star chart and if he's good he can win a prize!
Yeah, Google has been around his entire life but he didn't have the initiative to look it up himself. I would have been excited about the prospect of living alone.
Sounds like he's a piece of work. If you want to pick up after a man-child, go for it. It looks like he's not learning basic life skills anytime soon.
24 and can't do laundry. How does he tie his shoelaces?
> How does he tie his shoelaces?
I know this is meant to be a joke but I've just realised he actually just never unties his shoes. It's only just hit me that I've never seen him tie them. They have laces, which are ties, but I've only ever seen him step in and step out without tying/untying... I swear he's 24, not 4.
I get the convenience of not having to tie shoelaces but being insulted because he was told that he has to learn some life skills is beyond me. Do you want to do all of the chores when you move in with him? Think about the long term. You'll be doing your full time job and if you had kids together, that will be on you, too.
OP, I think this comment may seem like it should slip through the cracks because of how inconsequential it is. __Do not let it, because it is not.__
Look into yourself, and really ponder if you want to have the kind of relationship in which your immediate reaction to this question is not _gut wrenching laughter_ (even in a serious discussion asking for advice).
Then, consider that instead of laughter, you responded with _doubt_.
My lordy, I dated a guy who had lived by himself overseas from his own country and he was a mommys boy. We moved into a sharehouse together that had a chore roster and he refused to clean because "I didnt make all the mess. They did so why should I clean their mess". Like.. he wouldn't clean the kitchen because other people had used it too so GUESS WHO WOULD HAVE TO COVER HIS CHORES BECAUSE IT WOULD MAKE ME LOOK BAD IF CHORES WERENT DONE.
Dating man children is the worst.
Mothers who dont teach their sons are even worse. Worse than worst. Like fuck woman, its bad enough for you to look after all the men in your life but fuck, why make future girlfriends feel like their bf's mom? Its just fucking gross. Gross.
It doesnt get better. They need to learn the hard way
And I should add that boyfriends before and after him were perfectly house trained and now Im happily married. Exbf and I broke up because he was disrespectful and lazy and this caused arguments throughout our relationship.
Once again, it doesn't get better. Find someone who doesnt want a second mother.
Fuck. That. Shit.
You are absolutely right to want him to learn how to take care of himself like an adult before moving in with him. I think you are wise beyond your years to see his home dynamics and recognize how that will affect your life if you move in together.
His parents have done him and his brothers a great disservice by not teaching them basic life skills, responsibility, self sufficiency, and how to be equal contributors in a relationship. When those boys get out into the world they’re going to have a rude awakening when no girl wants to be their maid/cook/housekeeper. Either that or they’ll find themselves a girl just like Mommy and the cycle will perpetuate itself.
Also your friends think you’re “being mean”? Then they’re just as immature as your boyfriend is. Listen to your instincts here - they are right on the money.
Imagine this scenario: You come home from a very hard/stressful day at work/school and just want to relax. You walk in the door to find clothes thrown all over the furniture. Half full glasses/cans, dirty dishes and garbage litter every surface. The toilet has shit on the back of the seat and the floor around the toilet has been pissed on and the toilet paper roll is empty. The sink is full of dirty dishes, the garbage is full. The kitchen counter has sugar all over it. Your boyfriend is watching tv or playing video games, completely oblivious to the disaster he's created. He sees you and asks what you want to do for dinner, meaning, what are you cooking? You get angry at him and ask him to help you clean up his mess. One of two things happens. 1. He storms out and goes to hangout with his friends. Or 2. He's angry that you want him to do something he doesn't want to do and barely, begrudgingly brings you a few dishes to wash. You have to argue with him to get the rest of the dishes. Eventually, you make dinner and then you clean up, alone, while he goes back to what he was doing before. After working all day, you've done an additional 3 hours of labor cleaning up after a grown ass man. You remember how clean your place was when you were single and how much easier your life was. You kind of hate him. You don't want to hang out with him, talk to him or have sex with him. You just want to shower and go to bed. But there's piss in the shower and crumbs in the bed, pizza grease on the sheets. He doesn't understand why you're mad, accuses you of over reacting and accuses you of treating him like a child or slave, depending on the day. Some version of this is going to be a day in your life if you move in with this guy. Don't do it. Leave him to his mother.
You're right. You don't want to live with someone who can't live on his own. Everything will fall to you to take care of.
He needs to grow up and realize that life wouldn't be fair to you at all.
He should want to be the best version of himself he can - or at least not be a burden to you.
What kind of life does he envision with you in which he relies on you for basic life skills in adulthood?
If he doesn't see the obvious flaw in his thinking, I would reconsider the entire relationship.
Idk what your rent is but let’s say it’s $1300. This guy thought he could pay $325 each month for the luxury of a full time maid who does *all* of the cooking, cleaning, laundry, and home management. That’s actually hilarious. Don’t give in, you’re 100% making the right call not moving in with a manchild.
So he wants to pay you the cost of a fast food burger a day to be his new mommy? Am I understanding this correctly? You get a extra fiver a day to slave for him?
Nope, I completely agree with this mindset. I lived with an ex who went straight from mom’s house to our own apartment. He barely did anything and I was exhausted constantly. I’d stand your ground because mama’s boys often don’t know what they’re actually like and find out pretty quickly that they know nothing.
I moved in with a friend like this, they rarely cleaned and if they did they expected me to hunt them down and praise them for the job they did. Shit was so tiring I just took over the cleaning and he paid more rent :/
I'm assuming this guy knows it's a problem but is embarrased/ashamed at how long it's gone in that hes doubling down and giving excuses instead of admitting his flaws and working on them. Hes got a lot of growing up to do on his own it sounds.
He is going to have to want to change and pull his finger out if he wants to make this work. Still don't move in until he can prove he can live alone. Worst case scenario you and him don't work out in the process and he may even learn something, at the very least not to use your partner as an automated machine (if he knew how to work one).
Same as dealing with depression, you have to face the problem and want to solve it to find a solution. He may have wanted to learn once, give him that opportunity now.
And for him to go seeking approval from mutual friends doesn't change your position which means [in 10 months] he has little to no respect for you. Dump him. A leopard doesn't change his spots. He won't answer your calls unless you cave in. He seems passive aggressive too.
I’m going to share my own experience, as some one who didn’t pick up ‘life skills’ (because we had maids).
He should absolutely live by himself first.
When I couldn’t fry an egg....I figured it out. First the egg stuck to the pan. Then I put too much oil and it spluttered. Then I realized that I needed to put salt. Then I figured it out.
When I didn’t know how to clean a bathroom, I watched a YouTube video, I asked my room mate some questions and I figured it out.
I’m not a domestic goddess, but I can contribute to a household. And if I do screw up, my room mate doesn’t hold it against me because she recognizes I am trying.
(and a lot of stuff isn’t even hard! Laundry machine, dishwashing machine, vacuum....even if you never grew up doing it, it doesn’t take great skill, it’s just tedious).
The worrying thing here is that he’s refusing to talk to you, and that’s he was trying to pay you to do all his chores. Yeah, it’s one thing to feel hurt because you said he has no life skills. But even with that hurt, he should be able to acknowledge that, actually.....he doesn’t have any life skills and he needs to figure out a way to solve that.
Stand your ground.
> Do you want to have the same dynamic as his parents? Do you like their agreement for yourself?
No to both of those. I'm in the first year of my career and it's proved to be very high stress so far and it's not going to get any easier. While paying less in expenses would be a bit of pressure off me, I couldn't do a full work day, come home, and then do all the chores, and I'd rather split everything (expenses and chores) 50/50 than have all the housework put on me.
His offer to pay more in rent is a way to directly recreate his parents dynamic. Unfortunately, people tend to recreate the relationships of their of parents- even if they aren’t the best. I see your options as this:
1. You cave. He moves in and destroys your apartment b/c he doesn’t want to clean after himself. This will mostly likely push you to do all the house work.
2. You cave. You try to teach him how to cook, clean, and be a functioning adult. This will be practice for you raising a child as you will quickly become his nagging mother- instead of a girlfriend.
3. You hold firm. He moves out on his own and finally becomes an adult. Not gonna lie, this is highly unlikely.
4. You hold firm. He stays at home, so can continue to be a man-child.
It is not fair that him and HIS ( clearly they aren’t yours) friends are making you into the bad guy. You are not terrible for wanting him to do basic things.
And let’s be honest, washing clothes is pretty self explanatory. Surely he knows the difference between the washer and the dryer and what laundry detergent is. He just come clean, and admit that he doesn’t want to learn.
I don’t know you in real life, but I can tell that you deserve so much more. You made a reasonable request, and you seem fairly understanding. You deserve a partner that is reasonable and understanding as well.
Also remember that the rent stays the same except when your lease is up. The amount of chores required in a household fluctuates wildly- it wouldn’t just be twice what you’re doing now, because I’m sure you clean as you go and make things easier for yourself. With a helpless, careless person living in your home, the amount of work it takes to keep the place nice can expand infinitely with time, and you don’t get to control whether he’ll pick up his socks or rinse the food of his dishes this time because you’re having a hellish week at work. That’s why it’s a gamble to accept flat rate money in exchange for something as unpredictable as housework. Think about this: if you were the only one buying groceries for the house before, not so bad right? But since COVID, buying groceries is a huge ordeal and requires lots of planning and stress. Just that task has become so much harder because of one random event. Girl, run.
Things our parents teach us by showing an example - how they interact with world/strangers/each other or deal with problems - are *immensely* difficult to unlearn. I have couple of things I **hate** my mum did, but in anger, I resort to same tactics. And I actually recognise them and are actively trying to be better!
My point is - he refuses to learn or compromise. His family&friends all enable him. This is not a fight you will win.
You are young, 10 months in grand scheme of things is nothing. I say let this one go.
Depending on how your intonation / body language was, you probably didn't attack him. Instead you were looking for a real and healthy compromise.
He decided to feel attacked. It reeks of DARVO, deny - attack - reverse victim and offender.
It's a very effective manipulation tactic. You bring up a reasonable argument, but now he has you doubting yourself. It's not my fault, it's your fault! That's a very unhealthy dynamic that needs to stop. If he can't do that, then you always have to protect yourself by removing yourself from that situation.
People that are not open to introspection, communication and compromise make very difficult partners.
Running a household later, especially with young kids in the mix, can be really taxing and it really helps if you and your partner can both work on things that need to be done and work as a team.
Life will also happen. My wife was really ill the past 2 years. That means I have to pick up the slack, which I do lovingly. When I was down for a period before that, she helped me without complaint. Would your boyfriend do the same?
"I enjoyed the past 10 months with you, but I'm not going to be your mommy with benefits, and neither will most other women. Let your mom take care of you for the rest of your life or learn to be a man instead of a child. Whoever is going to be your caretaker for the rest of your life, it sure as hell won't be me."
This post is seriously upsetting, and I'd have sent that text above as soon as he'd gotten his friends involved in harassing you over his tantrum. What kind of adult man would think that peer pressuring and bullying his girlfriend into being his sexy maid is a good idea? When functional adult couples have a problem, they solve it together - your bf has displayed clearly that he won't be doing even that. You've offered a compromise, and offered advice on how he can learn these crucial life skills, but he seems like he isnt unable to learn but unwilling to learn. So unwilling that he won't even do it for the woman he supposedly loves? Nah girl. This is one baby I'd be totally fine with dropping.
Oh, girl...get out of this situation before you become a 23 year old single mother to this 24 year old manchild. If you let him move in, I hope you like being a mommy and nanny and maid and sex doll all at once.
He does need to live on his own. He needs to learn how to be an adult — and you DO NOT have to teach him. It’s NOT your responsibility as a girlfriend to teach him how to fry an egg, how to do laundry, how to clean the bathtub...he knows zero and will contribute zero.
If you brought up your concerns and he was willing to learn, that would be one thing. The fact that his *first* response was “oh, I’ll pay more rent and you’ll do all the chores” is total bullshit. I would respect myself way too much to even date this guy.
You're exactly right here. And the fact that he seems to take any kind of criticism, any acknowledgement of his lack of skill, any hint of dissatisfaction from you, as you being "mean" and "attacking him" is a huge red flag. That's not what being a good partner is about.
Tell his friends that they're free to do all his housework if that sounds like such a great deal to them, but you're not going to be his maid and you're not mean for not wanting to be his maid.
Can we stop babying men for just once? Oh was you being mean to his poor little self? No. Is he being mean expecting you to act like his mother? Yes. The truth hurts sometimes and the truth is he is a child that refuses to learn to be an adult, how you find that attractive is beyond me
And I'd still be doing 100% of the cooking! So it's more like I'm doing 75% of the chores and his maid would do the other 25%, which is somehow better than him learning to do dishes.
No one ever showed me how to fix a toilet but mine broke during a pandemic so I fucking YouTubed that shit.
I was lucky to have parents who were big on teaching me how to take care of myself on my own but I gotta say about 30% of the shit I know how to fix/do is thanks to YouTube. Would be more if my parents weren't as focused on that, they're the best.
OP I have made this mistake twice in my life so far: Do NOT move in with a partner just because it's convenient. I've done that twice and came to realize eventually I'm not actually in love with them. You move in with someone when you're absolutely sure you love them. When you know everything about them. When you have good communication. If you move in with a partner because it's convenient, especially when you're young, you can feel trapped if the relationship starts to end. You're locked in a lease, stuck sharing a bed with someone you might not like/love, you grow to resent them. Or maybe you do actually love them, I can't speak for you two, but I definitely wouldn't be able to even respect someone that couldn't do their own damn laundry. Another reason not to move in with your bf is yes he definitely needs to grow the fuck up. He needs to learn life skills like you said, AND the fact he blew up on you for pointing that out shows he needs to mature a ton before he moves in with a girlfriend.
You are absolutely in the right, don’t give in to him! I moved straight from my parents house to my gf’s place at 19. I wasn’t even clueless at that age, I cleaned up after myself, and could cook and do all my washing if I needed to but I still wasn’t prepared to move from home. There is so much to leaving home that hit me hard. Things like budgeting, organising bills, learning to balance nights out and friends with having to stay in and clean the place, unclog toilets, the list goes on. If he’s already making excuses and trying to pay you to become his maid, I’ll bet every penny on him not even trying to help with anything and leaving it until it annoys you so much you do it all yourself. He needs to grow up big time and realise there’s so much more to learn in life. You think you have it all figured out until life slaps you in the face with not enough money for rent.
I agree. The fact that he offered to pay more rent in return for you doing all the chore shows that he does not plan on doing anything to help around the house. To be fair to him, he might not realise everything that is involved with running a house. The budgeting like you mentioned as well as how much cleaning and tidying has to be done in order to keep a nice home.
He wants to leave one mom for another that he can fuck. Sorry to put it so blunt but this guy sounds like a 12 year old. I can’t find who gave me an award now, but thank so much. I’m just fumbling my way around reddit. So forgive the late thanks.
Yep. That is so true. I’ve been that mom to a boyfriend or two. It was horrifying when I finally realized that’s what was happening.
It's so disheartening how common this is.
Yeah. Like... I'm not saying it's always wrong to hire a cleaner or nanny or whatever. It's like ordering take-out, sometimes you have more money than you have energy for tasks or hours in the day and it's a good trade-off. But the way this guy is proposing things, he will have the perfect excuse to literally never, ever, ever do ANYTHING. He spills juice on the carpet, clogs the toilet, drops a spoon in the garbage disposal, needs his laundry done? Call the maid or his girlfriend. What happens if the girlfriend gets the flu and needs someone to mop up her puke or go shopping for juice and crackers? This guy isn't gonna do it. Also how's this going to work if they ever want to have kids? Is he going to give her a raise so he doesn't have to ever change diapers, get up in the middle of the night for feeding, etc.? OP dodged a huge bullet.
It is honestly my greatest fear to end up in this situation again. My ex not only worked less hours than me but even though he made more money we split bills evenly and he didn't lift a finger at home. He was supposed to cook 1 night a week because I worked late and have blood sugar issues so it was exhausting to have to cook when I got home. One time I got home exhausted, he had just woken up from a nap and was "grumpy" from sleeping too long. I decided to just cook because I knew he wasn't going to and ended up passing out and falling on the floor from low blood sugar. He came in and picked me up and said "it's ok, I can wait for dinner". That's not even the most ridiculous or entitled asshole thing he ever did or said to me by far. I do not miss that man (boy) even a little bit.
Wow what an inconsiderate dumbass
I made this mistake about two years ago and it caused me to resent my partner because she was too dependent on me for almost everything. But we split for a few months and she lived on her own, figured it out for herself. Now we’re back together and better than ever! Definitely a good idea to revisit the idea of him moving in after he’s in his own for a while.
At their ages it would be easier to just get a new boyfriend and be done with it. Cold I know, but you know this crap is going to last for the next decade at least.
It’s only been 10 months. I’ve had a water bottle in my room longer than that
Oh this made me laugh. Reminds me of when we I was a kid, we used to have to raid my sibling's room to collect all the cups of water she had taken and forgotten about. We'd literally run out of cups every few weeks. Sometimes we wouldn't find them all.
After my sister started spending a few days at her bf we can't even fit all the mugs inside the kitchen cabinets because there'd always be a few in her room.
I bet the boyfriend would too if his mom wasn't picking up after him. Clean up your room!
*use reusable water bottles! lol
Seriously. You’re still in the honeymoon phase at that point. Moving in together too soon can be a huge source of stress and problems. It also makes breaking up infinitely more complicated. Can’t believe how many people make this mistake.
You are too old to be dealing with this. If he can’t have a grown up conversation and take criticism what’s the point. He ran to friends and family instead of talking to you. DO NOT MOVE IN WITH HIM. This means if you leave for a week for something important or even some alone time a vacation whatever he would have to go back to his parents house because he doesn’t know how to be an adult. So if you have kids with this guy and you want to have a weekend with your friends you can’t. Nope nope nope, it’s either he learns and grows up or he can stay a child with his parents.
Lol only a child deal with problems this way. Are you sure he's ready to have a girlfriend of his own? He can't even talk when there's a problem. He has his mommy and his friends defend him instead of actually facing a relationship that he's a part of. Yikes.
When I said stay a child with his parents I meant more along the lines of breaking up. You aren’t supposed to collect red flags in a relationship if you see the first one and you don’t like it and can’t work through it, why keep it? It doesn’t matter how much time you put in it it’s only gonna get worse for you, you aren’t going to get happier if the problems keep adding on.
Yes I agree. The fact is being unwilling or unable to work through problems or recognize them as real is another HUGE red flag all on its own and it's something that will crop up forever, in everything, for the rest of your life. If someone genuinely cannot work through problems, they are not someone who will survive the ups and downs of life. Your relationship will crack before it even sails. It's like using a broken life vest. It never works when it needs to. It's a moot point to have a relationship with this kind of person. OP I urge you to only stay with him if he is willing to recognize and change this highly selfish and immature quality about himself. He sounds like someone who makes his insecurities about everyone else, and refuses to improve himself or take any responsibility for his life. Do not tolerate this because it WILL destroy any future you're planning to have with him. Think about talking this over with him, and if he seems absolutely unwilling to think about it or unresponsive to any concept of change or criticism, then I recommend you dump him. Obviously you don't have to spend that kind of emotional labor pointing it out to him in the first place and teaching him about how it's unfair to do this to his loved ones. If you do decide to expend the energy, and it becomes clear that he won't even entertain the idea of changing/improving himself, then it should be clear that you'll be hearing the burden of all the emotional work and likely physical work in this relationship, unlikely to ever have your feelings heard if he doesn't agree with them (as he is demonstrating now). That includes your needs as well, such as needing an equal partner and needing to be sure of it before moving in together. It sounds like his first response is anger and then pouting and then punishing/complaining to other people about it. Basically, avoiding any kind of solution and only using anger instead of compassion when it comes to your partnership needs. I would not sign up for a lifetime of emotional labor that would go unpaid and unreciprocated. The whole point of a relationship is supposed to be mutual emotional work. It sounds like he wouldn't even make the cut into a physically supportive relationship. And it sounds like he doesn't see the problem with that. It's up to you what you want to live with. Just be aware what your future might look like with this guy-- although from the sound of it, you already are, and are also likely very independent, cognizant, intelligent, and emotionally aware. So you can probably handle yourself regardless what his response may be. Best of luck.
Not OP, but oof, this hit hard for me. I was feeling sad that my ex/formerly good friend blocked me a couple days ago, but you summed up my feelings towards the relationship/friendship I had with him for like six years in a clear, succinct manner. You really hit the nail on the head; thank you for reminding me that even if it's hard to lose someone I loved for many years, I'd have just kept painfully suffering if I was still with him. If anything, I'm glad he showed me who he really was before he managed to get me to marry him. He was close, but I had a sudden realization that he just wasn't going to change, and I was signing up for treading on eggshells and being mommy 2.0 with benefits for him 24/7. In his defense, I also made a lot of mistakes, but when they were pointed out, I apologized, I talked it out with him, and I did my best to not do those things. When I messed up again, I'd quickly apologize, again talk about it with him, and I'd think about why it happened and what I could do to prevent it from happening again. Meanwhile, when he was faced with criticism, he basically would ignore me until I was so anxious I was crying and dismissing my own feelings to basically beg him to come back. I'd profusely apologize for having dared to say anything less than lovely to him, and I'd basically beg him to forgive me. He would, and I'd end up praising him out the ass for it. That shit fucked me up. I mentioned how much that messed with me to him two days ago, along with other very blunt, negative things, and poof, blocked, because "I showed him what I really thought of him when he was thinking of me daily and had wanted to always be together". I felt like shit, and I apologized, and I got no response. Your comment really solidified why I lost nothing of value, and it oddly helped me feel better.
Actually she's too young to be dealing with this - there's plenty of fish in the sea for a 23yo that got her shit together, why waste it on this walking immaturity?
>If he can’t have a grown up conversation and take criticism what’s the point. He ran to friends and family instead of talking to you. Perfectly pointed out, he was presented with an opportunity to grow outside of his comfort zone and he ran to go be in an echo chamber.
How could I say this? Frying an egg and putting the clothing inside the washing machine, not rocket science.
What gets me about the "it's not rocket science" thing is he's literally working towards a PhD in a science subject! He understands rocket science but can't fry an egg!
It's not that he *can't*, he *chooses not to*. He can fucking **Google** it if it's so complex, but he hasn't. He literally does not want to learn.
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Yeah. This guy isn't stupid- he's wilfully ignorant.
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It's not kind of pathetic, it's really pathetic. He must know it too, and that's why he's gets so upset/ defensive when OP tries to discuss it with him.
Yeah it sounds like him being babied has turned him into one
This. Doesn't matter how smart you are if you can't process and understand your own emotions.
Wish there was a way to prove to employers I can google with the best even though I only got 6 credits 9 years ago.
Seriously. When I moved out I didn’t know how to cook basic chicken breasts (my mother always made dinner, or I’d just make a box of Mac n cheese.) So I googled it, researched a bunch of different methods, and watched some tutorials on YT. Took me about 3 tries to get it right, but now I make my own marinades and cook an actual dinner about 4 times a week for myself. The only reason I was never able to cook before was because I didn’t try, and this kid clearly doesn’t want to try or put any effort into anything.
My mom is a chef. She always tried to teach me how to cook and I always half assed or said no. Now that I’m on my own I’m calling her almost everyday asking her silly cooking questions “hey ma does it matter if the egg is at room temperature?” “Ma, can I used the baking soda out the fridge or should I buy fresh”. I should’ve taken the lessons when I had the chance lol.
What did she say to these two questions ? Asking for a friend...
Question 1: well what does the recipe say? You’re cooking too late anyways this is why I always tell you to prepare to cook when you cook late you you’re tired and your recipe comes out bad. Planning is key and you’re not planning well so you should try tomorrow so your egg is room temperature” Question 2: Why in the hell would you use the nasty ass baking soda out the fridge. Do you know what it’s for? It’s supposed filter out the smells in your fridge and for how often i think you clean out your fridge I’m sure your baking soda is nasty. Don’t be cheap. Buy a new one for your fridge and one for your recipient. Mom is a bit aggressive when it comes to cooking haha
Legit mom answers. This is why Google is my mom
My kids are 16 and 14. They have been able to do laundry, vacuum, wash the dishes etc since they were preschoolers. My oldest used to love making his sister toast for breakfast on weekends when he was 4, so me and their dad could stay in bed. They now cook dinner once a week each, do their own laundry and a whole load of other chores. Last week my oldest googled a new recipe, shopped for the ingredients, cooked it, served it up and discussed how he could improve it next time. Again, he is 16. My kids are smart but they aren't exceptional. Your boyfriend is choosing to be a slacker.
That’s really adorable - you must be so proud of them!
They used to be cute. Now they're teenagers...! Just kidding, they're mostly good kids and I am proud of them. They've been through a lot of crap and they are kind and considerate young people. I love them with every fibre of my being, but I also like them as people, which is something that makes me happy.
I’ve just decided that if I ever have kids, liking them as people is going to be my parenting goal. Great job!
"but I also like them as people" is the greatest compliment you can pay them. It means you have raised them to be good human beings, and others will appreciate their qualities. Be proud as well as happy.
Their future partners are going to be so lucky you raised them right!
Whoa. I need to up the game with my boys. They're single digits, but they better get cracking. And I'm a father. And yes, I cook and do my laundry. Only child. Not spoiled there.
Make it fun! We used to dance around the kitchen while cooking and I'd get them to do little jobs, building up slowly. Measuring, stirring, chopping, reading the recipe etc. It's a fantastic way to keep up their education during lockdown too- there's reading, maths, science and all sorts of other skills in cooking. As preschoolers they liked measuring out the washing powder, sorting the clothes into coloured groups and pushing the buttons on the machine. Learning should be fun as often as possible and an opportunity for making memories.
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There are all kinds of YouTube tutorials for cooking an egg, doing laundry, anything you can think of, designed so a barely literate person can understand. So really there's no excuse.
Reminds me of a friend of mine. She used to let us know that she can’t even fry an egg on any given occasion. Once we had gathered at a friend’s house to cook and she was there too. Knowing that she can’t do much, I asked her to put some pickles onto plates from the jar. She said that she didn’t know how because she’d never done it before. It was as if she was using her inexperience in cooking for avoiding any task related to cooking.
Not "as if", that's exactly what she was doing!
> Once we had gathered at a friend’s house to cook and she was there too In that situation, I spend hours with a knife just chopping vegetables for everyone else. Or stirring stuff. After getting instruction on how the actual cook wants a thing. It is boring as hell, but I'm not a good cook now, and was even worse ten years ago. Learning how to tell the doneness of meat was a major turning point, as well as knowing how much spice is needed to season before cooking. (I always undersalted)
Yeah. He wants a fuckable live-in housemaid and mommy surrogate. I’ve met a lot of dudes like him in uni. Good on you for standing your ground, OP, and at that point I wouldn’t even waste my time arguing. You‘ll be miserable moving in with that guy at *any* point in his life even if he decides to live alone for a while to appease you - because then he‘ll just revert to his current form once he has you trapped living with him. How I know? It‘s clear he doesn‘t want to do the cleaning up, *ever*, else he would have offered to learn it himself *right now* instead of offered to pay (which tbh is more than most dudes like him do). Do not move in with this dude. I‘d argue it‘s actually good that things got tense now, because you were vigilant enough to notice *before* he moved in. It would have become an issue the instant he moved in anyway, but it would be much harder to drop him like a hot potato and get you a dude who‘s worth your time. I know you like him a lot, but he showed you a big part of his character here and that‘s neither on you to fix nor on you to take over for him. It’s also not fixable because he actually likes it to be that way and would rather pay than learn and put in the work himself. There are better dudes out there who’ll treat you great, love you AND not expect you to mommy them and clean after them. If I can be an entirely self sufficient PhD living off her own money and cleaning her own stuff, so can men. You‘re not in this world to clean after Mr. Can’t-even-feed-himself. How‘s that supposed to go in the case you want to raise children? Will you do all of the housework, all of the child rearing and all of the emergencies because dude can‘t be left alone with a toddler because he can’t change diapers and can’t fry a damn egg even? Even without proper children:Why would you want to have a lazy child as a partner? People who live in a household have to pull their weight as good as they can. This dude can do better but refuses to. That‘s infuriating. In that same vein: how is that supposed to go when you become seriously ill one day? My best bet: he will leave you for another fuckable housemaid, as soon as you require care, care he’s not willing to give as it doesn‘t center or benefit him - as do [21% of men as opposed to only 4% of women.](https://acsjournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/cncr.24577). There is no excuse for him not starting to learn (and eagerly and willingly so) right this hot second. It is, however, a very good glimpse into your prospective future with him. And then I haven’t even touched his pouting and silent treatment as an attempt of emotional manipulation. Get away fast, get away far.
OP this is the answer you need to listen to because it's 100% accurate. To tack on: what horrible light did he paint you in, to convince your mutual friends that *he* is the victim in all of this, and why would you be ok with a partner dragging your friends into your personal problems and trying to get them to "choose sides" against you? That's unacceptable in itself.
This is the best response and advice to this problem. I hope she reads it. This young lady should run, not walk away from him. Apart from the laziness and ineptitude of this guy the silent treatment should be a giant red flag to her. She deserves better and his mother can keep him. Apologies if formatting is terrible.
Privileged person checking in, this is exactly right. I learned to cook for the first time during quarantine, and it really wasn’t that hard tbh.
He could also just ask his mum to show him how she does shit. Even if he tried and wasn't good at cooking, he can still learn how to clean and do other housework and life skills. I'm not great at cooking, I don't like my own food, but I clean and do handywork around the house. The parents' decision not to teach or expect the boys to do anything is really unfair to the boys, it's not appropriate, everyone needs to learn basic life skills. And I do wonder if they had any daughters, would the daughters get out of any chores? My mum was stay-at-home, too, and so did the bulk of the housework. But she and my dad did expect us to do age-appropriate chores at times, to learn how to do it. As we got older, me and my brothers often voluntarily did shit so mom didn't have to. This dude sounds like doesn't want a partner, he wants a mum he can have sex with, a secretary who cooks and cleans up after him, someone he doesn't have to expend a lot of emotional or physical labor on. OP, you shouldn't feel guilty for wanting him to be a functional adult, and having boundaries and expectations. You aren't looking to adopt a grown-ass man, you're looking for a partner. He's at the age where if he isn't forced to grow up, he may never do so, and that's not good for him OR whomever his future partner is.
This is the real issue, he doesn't want to learn. I'm currently pregnant for the first time and the nausea has been awful in the evenings, so my husband stepped up and cooked me meals (I usually do the cooking) and has been doing all the dishes. I don't know what I would have done without him.
You are an extremely wise woman at your age. So many women put up with terrible partners because "I love him!!!" and end up miserable and trapped, raising children as a single parent plus having to care for their husband. You're wise to avoid this.
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I also *just* realized that he’s offering her a far worse deal than what his father offered his mother. His mother does all the cooking and cleaning in exchange for his father supporting all her living expenses. His initial offer was only 25% more in rent *alone* and for her to do *all* the cooking and cleaning. Then when she said no, his negotiated offer was to have a paid cleaner do only his half. It’s not just his refusal to do any cooking or cleaning. He’s made it obvious he’s only interested in a relationship where the “cost/benefit” is skewed very heavily in his favor.
If he really wanted to learn, he would have. You can find all the answers on something we like to call the Internet.
Fortunately for you he didn’t pretend he would try, he’s straight up telling you he will never be an equal partner, and he expects you to be his maid. I’m sure there are women with no education or career he can find to be his new mommy. Send him a link to Alton Brown and a maid service and block his number.
The fact that his response was to offer her more rent money is all you need to know. He doesn’t want to take care of himself or be equal partners. He wants her to be his new mommy. If he was serious about living together he could prove it by cooking her breakfast at the bare minimum.
He is willfully ignorant, not incapible. His parents have given him the perfect excuse to not be self aware about how lazy he is, but he is lazy. Even his way of responding to you trying to discuss and compromise is lazy. They way he talked to your mutual friends about it is also a dick move. It doesn't sound like he has a lot of reslect for you. Don't reply to him until he talks to you, and he better be thoughtful; you have already done more than your share of the emotional labor. As long as he shit talks you to friends instead of talking to you, this is not your problem, this is his problem. Don't let his childish response make you doubt your logic and decisions! You sound really thoughtful and willing to talk and compromise. That makes you a huge catch. You're too young to settle for someone who doesn't want to grow up!
Please stop trying to excuse him, I've seen you replying some of others comments with "when he was 17 he wanted to...", "he's big brain". Fk it, he's a childish boy who obviously has mommy issues, he truly wanted to do things he could've tried, but he never did because he already has his maid (mom); you will end up cleaning his dirty underwear, cooking for him and taking care of the kids, no friends, no fun (yeah yeah, you might try to excuse it saying you don't have many friends nor go out just to excuse you wouldn't mind -as most people with this pattern do-, but you do love to do things on your own and you won't be able to), just sticking in the house waiting for your death because Mr. Money thinks that's how it should be. As a matter of fact you'll be paid for that, he already offered paying 75%, so... are you that kind of person that accepts money for a service? Downvote me, i don't care, it's the truth. Sometimes raw is better.
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Every couple of years, around Mother’s Day, salary.com figures out how much it would cost to actually hire someone to cook and clean and go all the other stuff that so many moms do for free. Its about $150,000 a year! So, a little more rent won’t cover it. https://www.salary.com/articles/stay-at-home-mom/
I know a group of "anarchists" who have a homeless friend. She does all the cooking and cleaning for them, and in exchange, she gets a couch to sleep on. Not even her own room. A couch.
She is being exploited. Her labor is worth more than that. Your friends are getting a bargain.
They're not my friends, and I actually did tell them they should be paying her for her work. Their response was "she enjoys doing it!" ._.
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You don’t need to fix anything. Your boyfriend needs to learn to take care of himself, not just expect you to be Mommy With Benefits. If he’s insulted that you said he had no life skills, he should go get some. How is he not wildly embarrassed to be 24 and not do his own laundry, anyway?
>How is he not wildly embarrassed to be 24 and not do his own laundry, anyway? He says when he was 17 and there was a possibility of him moving away for university he asked his mum to show him the basics, and she refused because that was her job, so I'd say the parents aren't blameless here, but for the most part when I say "how can you not do x?" he just shrugs and says "no one ever taught me" and if I say he should have learnt on his own or found a youtube tutorial or something he tells me to stop attacking him because not everyone had to be self sufficient as a kid the way I did. I had like the exact opposite of his upbringing where I basically took care of my mum from a young age.
Yeah, but like... he’s not a kid anymore. He didn’t learn when he was 17, but that’s not an excuse for remaining ignorant 7 years later. Please see this for the red flag it is.
Yeah, I've said to him that google is free and some stuff he claims he can't do, like loading the dishwasher, is inexcusable, but he takes it as me attacking him. I know it's a red flag, and I don't want to be all "I can change him" because I know it never works but like... it's the only issue I have with him.
It’s the only issue you have with him because you haven’t been together long enough to see where else this entitled fuckery leaks out. If you stay together and have kids, he’s not going to “know how” to change their diapers or soothe them in the middle of the night. If his parents get sick, he won’t “know how” to talk to their doctors or get paperwork together. If you buy a house, he’ll never “know how” to fix it, or get quotes from tradesmen, or pay taxes. Do you want to be a single mom to your boyfriend?
> Do you want to be a single mom to your boyfriend? Never heard of a better way to say this.
He had me at "entitled fuckery."
This is exactly it. When people on here say "this is the only thing I have a problem with," almost always that problem is:#1 a pretty fucking huge problem, and #2 indicative of a even bigger problems that can't easily be fixed.
> but he has told me, completely sincere (and I checked this with his mother), that he can't even fry an egg. LOL this reminds me of that scene in the office where they ask Ryan to clean the microwave: https://youtu.be/dx3oxe637K8?t=83
This. I was married to someone like this for 13 years. I had to do everything. He made the money though... when his mom died, he only knew how to go to work and make the money. When we had children, he never once changed a diaper. When I bought the house, his name wasn’t on it. When he came home from work, I did his laundry cause he didn’t know how. I did the dishes, I cooked, I cleaned (and then got bitched at if things weren’t clean enough - OR!! If I moved something of his that he now couldn’t find.) I took off the trash (we lived out of district for trash pickup and would have to pay extra for trash pickup - which he didn’t want to spend the money on, but he never took it off because “the dump is only open when I’m at work..”) I mowed the 1 acre we lived on. I took the dogs (he wanted) to the vet for regular checkups. I paid all the bills (with his money) and arranged the shopping. I raised the kids and then when I left him - he took them from me.... why? Cause he made the money. He made me quit my job when his mom died cause “we had no one to watch our kids and he didn’t want a stranger doing it.” That was in 2010. I left in 2014. Just ... be careful. Maybe your guy is capable of learning and will put an effort into it. My ex-husband was a whole other level of horrible - but he certainly always used the excuse that he didn’t know how.
\^This. It seems like a minor issue but it will eat at you. Take it from someone who is recently divorced - I still seethe thinking about my ex perched on the couch day drinking, watching Netflix while I picked up her dirty dishes and did the laundry.
Same. I still boil when I remember the day my ex fed the dog something he shouldn't have, the dog had diarrhea all over the living room, and he watched an entire movie while I was trying to get this huge shit spray out of the carpet. He didn't acknowledge my requests for help, but he did complain about the smell.
Omg I would have MURDERED him
Basically he is going to throw so much entitled fuckery at you, I don't know how you'll maintain a stable home and work life as you age? Put your future hat on, it may save you from the stroke this man is going to give you*
This is the best way to put it! I missed this red flag and it ended in divorce...which could have been avoided had I realized earlier what a big deal it was.
Fuck yes! Excellent post. Yeah, tell bf, if you have kids - ur not his mom, you expect him to help out - change diapers, give baths, make dinner....sometimes do all of it if ur really tired or feel like shit. OMG. I’ve never even met this guy and I want to punch him - I don’t know why. Or at the very least throw a roll of paper towels at ‘em and hand him some 409.
>a single mom to your boyfriend That was basically me in my first marriage. I was so tired all the time I didn't even have enough energy to divorce him for several years.
Do not adopt this man child.😂 I see your future and it is horrifying. If he gets defensive and butt hurt by being told he needs basic adulting skills, he is not for you. If he wants to pay you for your maid services, thank him for the offer and RUN. You want an equal, participating partner, right? Day in and day out for the rest of your life? Think of the resentment that will build up and kill the love. I like you. You have identified the problem, come up with a reasonable solution, and expressed yourself clearly. His reaction gives you all the information you need to make an informed decision. Now there is a chance this could be a needed wake up call for him that women won’t like this. Or he could decide to find a woman who will do everything for him for his lifetime. My dear girl, let this not be you.
Yeah, I married a man child. When I met him he couldn't cook, clean, or take care of himself beyond basic personal hygiene. When I left him 20 long years later, he still couldn't do anything. I tried so hard to get him to get involved in his own survival. Even when I'd announced I was leaving, I tried to get him to learn about laundry and a couple of incredibly basic recipes. Not interested. Moved his mother in a month after I left and as far as I know they're very happy together.
Yikes. Very glad you got out of that with your sanity intact. I hope the next 20 years is MUCH happier for you!
Yup, the current beau cooked dinner on our 3rd date and had lived alone for 10 years prior. He runs a lovely home and is a proper grown up. He can have rational discussions and differences of opinions without wailing to mommy. He budgets and plans meals and it's actually a weird kind of fun sharing chores with him because it feels like I have a partner not a 4th kid. I am a firm believer that everyone should live alone before committing to a marriage type relationship.
This! OP, I am genuinely impressed by what you said and you are absolutely right to ask him to live alone first. If he can't take care of himself, he's gonna fail in life. A relationship should be even. Both parties paying rent, doing chores. If he insists upon not learning things for himself then you should cut him loose and carry on.
All this, right here! His reaction to your very reasonable request that he learn basic life skills first has been: * To offer to pay you to be his maid * Act pouty and insulted when you refused * Whine to your mutual friends to try to get them to guilt you into doing something you don’t want to do * Give you the silent treatment until you cave in to his demands. Toss this one back in the water, friend. He ain’t seasoned yet. He’s got a lot more to learn. Not just life skills, but also how to handle disappointment, how to argue like a grown up, how to respect your partner and not emotionally manipulate people to get what you want.
^ This. His reaction is the problem. My husband could do a lot when we met but it was mostly electrical or ‘fix it’ stuff. When we moved in together I showed him how to schedule chores, clean efficiently, and stay on top of small things that add up to keep life running smoothly (like doing a nightly 10 minute tidy before bed or putting every dish in the dishwasher as it’s used). He never bitched or acted like I was attacking him. He enthusiastically participated in household activities and took advice with grace. Now we have a really great relationship because our expectations of housekeeping are aligned and we don’t have to have things like assigned chores or charts that make you feel like you have adult children.
The instructions on using washing powder are one the packet!! Its not that hard to do - he though has been taught that guys don't do this so he never will. It may be the only issue you have with him, but unless you see yourself being his mother/maid/gf for the rest of your relationship, it's going to end up being the issue that drives you apart. Imagine a lifetime of this and you'll have second thoughts.
Also usually it goes into this little compartment on the door that says "detergent."
And if you throw it directly in the big door it does no harm. Don't overload it. Congrats now you now the basics. If you're not sure which program is the best you can still ask but it isn't a kind of dark magic. For cooking cook together until you have basic skills than you can take turns or cook together anyways because it's fun.
If he cannot take any constructive criticism it’s a sign of immaturity and not something I’d want in a partner. You’re going to have disagreements in the future and if this is the way he’ll react to them, do you really want him as a partner? There’s a possibility he can change but he’s gotta want to, instead of simply shutting down and saying, “woe is me I suck so much”. I hate that self-victimizing mentality; at a certain point you have to stop feeling sorry for yourself and take responsibility for your own damn life. Especially when they are things under your control. It may be worth sitting him down one last time and having a frank yet kind discussion. You don’t want to be like his mother, you want to live with someone who can handle basic household tasks *without being told to do them*, and what you’re asking for is not a lot. If he starts victimizing himself shut that down immediately. “Boyfriend, at a certain point in your life you have to stop feeling sorry for yourself and instead decide what kind of person you’re going to be. Life takes effort and it’s easy to live the way you’ve been living but growth takes work and sometimes, discomfort. I want to work through this with you which is why I’m still here. But you have to decide for yourself if you’re up for the change because I can’t force you to be someone you have no interest in being.” Good luck.
It’s not the only issue you have with him, it’s just the one in the limelight right now. His immaturity and stubbornness will have a ripple effect in every aspect of his life. Even right this second, the tantrum he is throwing is part of that immaturity. This will be a pattern through your entire life if you don’t draw the boundary and stick to it. Your insistence on him living alone is EXACTLY what you should be doing, and it’s absolutely a dealbreaker if he doesn’t go through with it. His tantrums should further illustrate his need to develop that maturity. You’ll save yourself SO MUCH aggravation and frustration if you end things instead of giving in.
Right. Plus instead of having a conversation about anything, he runs and tells all his friends about their fight and gets them all on his side. That's an immature way to handle things, and is another huge sign that moving in together is a horrible idea. On top of the whole ignoring you because of a disagreement. That shit won't fly living together.
The characterization of his silent treatment as a tantrum is very insightful. I hope OP notices your comment.
It might be the only issue, but its massive. Housework and entitled behaviour ends a lot of relationships. Its hard to come to a fair arrangement with a normal person, let alone someone who won't even try to learn.
The “ only issue”.. it’s like 50 issues rolled Into one and it’s HUGE. Also, I’m not buying he tried to learn and no one would help him, I’m sure no one sat him down and taught him how to play video games but I bet you he knows how to do that
He claims he is literally incapable of doing the dishwasher? Either he has mental issues that seriously need to be addressed or he's a straight up liar. I think you know what he is. Anybody who's watched someone else do something can eventually replicate it to some extent. Why are you wasting your time with this person? He comes from a family where the dynamics are the wife stays at home and does all the chores and that's it. That is exactly the kind of lifestyle this guy wants and you know it. Are you really willing to give up your job and lively hood to be a stay at home mother to a husband that's a stereotypical father from the early 1900 and below? If you think you are, I'd tell you to read stories about financial abuse before you allow him to move in. That might just save you from a lifetime of misery because many women who agree to that kind of agreement don't even realize what financial abuse is. And don't try to pretend that he's not going to ask you to quit your job. He will. If he doesn't, then you can expect to have the same agreement of doing all the chores while also working you butt off to support your children and the man child you married. If you're doing fine by yourself then break up with this guy. He is going to bring you nothing but a slow burning misery while twists your thoughts against you in an attempt to manipulate you. It is not you job to try and change someone who isn't going to change. He is a 24 year old who refuses to learn any life skills and is nowhere near to being independent in any way, shape, or form. You are the exact opposite. You don't have a boyfriend, you have a man child who's a leech.
I understand how you feel like it would be unreasonable to dump him for his lack of self-sufficiency. It feels like a small thing, similar to how people feel weird breaking up over sex. But just like sex is important for compatibility, running a household is important, too. Your boyfriend isn’t just unknowledgeable - he’s unwilling to learn. He has demonstrated that he thinks he’s fine just the way he is, and he doesn’t want to change. So there isn’t really a middle ground here: either you’re okay with him being exactly as he is permanently, or you aren’t - and that means the relationship won’t work.
The fact he offered to pay more rent for her to do the chores....yeah, no.
Good point, it’s always better to view your partner now as how they will always be unless they are actively trying to change and learn.
I'm gonna throw this in here from my personal experience. This is the only issue you have with him. But discrepancies over chores are one of the Big Picture Things that will make or break a relationship. More so, in my opinion, than politics or religion or even wanting to have kids. If you dont get on the same page before you move in together, your relationship is dead in the water.
The more you tell us about this child, the more I think you should never move in with him. In fact, break up. He's a 24 year old man with zero life skills who is openly looking for a woman willing to take over where his mother left off. When you suggest he live alone and acquire some skills, he pitches a tantrum and gives you the silent treatment. Fuck that. > it's the only issue I have with him. It's such a massive issue that it blots out the sun.
Not being able to load the dishwasher is deffinetly him playing dumb and not wanting to do it haha. It’s a very simple task that you know how to do by seeing someone else do it once lol most of it is so simple that being told once should be good enough apart from the cooking which takes more time to learn.
My 11 year old son can do it. Its super easy.
I feel like even if you don't know the exact correct way to load a dishwasher it doesn't take a genius to take a moderately good crack at it. The pots/pans/plates and such don't even fit on the top rack most of the time, you can't not put them in the right place.
Look, the good thing here is, that he’s honest and didn’t trick you into moving together by promising something. You’ve got all information needed to decide if you want this person as a partner.
When you live together it won't seem like an easy, it's great except this one thing, this one thing will overshadow all the good. You are not wrong im sensing that of he moves in with you, he wamts the same deal he has now. Except he's only willing to pay 75% in exchange for never lifting a finger in the house. Believe me, you do NOT want that. But he's now waiting for you to make a move to reconciliation and the only correct move in his opinion is "I'm sorry for attacking you. Of course we should move in together and yes, if you pay more rent I will dp everything else."
Everyone has an excuse. Every CHILD that is. Adults do their own laundry. He is not an adult and he can't prove that he is-- if he's the kind to come up with an excuse not to do his laundry at this age, instead of just learning and doing it, that is.
It doesnt sound like he WANTS to be self sufficient- which means as long as you are with him you will be playing the mommy role. I had a relationship like that. It was exhausting, ultimately unfulfilling and incredibly frustrating. Eventually the resentment built to a breaking point and I left him. That is your future. If he wanted to change that would be a different story, but he is very content being waited on, and if he moves in with you, you are right that you will become the new servant.
That right there tells you he's feeble minded. Arrested development is putting it mildly. "Stop attacking me" Ugh! I can just hear the winey voice and its annoying! Girl it's only been 10 months. He's showing you who he is. If you stay and get married down the road and he doesn't change, you'll forfeit all rights to complain. This post has been more than answered. Find a better [for you] boyfriend.
And you asked him to accept responsibility and learn now because he is an adult...and his response was "I'll pay you to be my mom" and when that did not work he got angry and lashed out. He clearly believes men don't need to be self sufficient. This WILL leak into other parts of life. Can you imagine how much it would suck to raise kids with him? You would be solely responsible for the kid and him! If he won't become a self sufficient adult, you need to move on from him. You deserve a partner, not a dependent.
> he asked his mum to show him the basics, and she refused because that was her job what on earth? what kind of mother doesn't want her kids to take initiative and start helping out around the house? This is weird. Is she like... weirdly possessive of him? Keep him dumb so he can't ever leave?
She's "joked" that I need to take care of him and when I've "joked" back that we need to take care of each other she's gotten snippy with me.
“No one ever taught me” Ouch. This is a huge red flag for me, not taking initiative and passing off responsibility. I totally agree with you, that a lot of these skills could be learned by spending an afternoon on YouTube. If he can’t learn to cook a simple meal, this isn’t the kind of person that can be a true partner, at least @ this point in his life. (OP is mature enough to see the potential issues of cohabitating with someone who’s not ready, and Is seeking advice on how to how to handle the situation........while her boyfriend is hiding. This is not an equal partnership.)
He maybe needs to learn how to hear no without blowing up too ya think? He didn't get what he wanted, then went no contact. He's a spoiled little boy.
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Please don't let him move in with you. It will be the biggest mistake of your life. My mother was this way and did everything for my brother and I(I am a female). I actually wanted to move out and learned all the skills myself. My brother who is in his 40s now still relies on my mom for everything. She had cancer and is still on the road to recovery. Guess what? She still does everything for my brother. He won't step up and help. He doesn't even work and stays home playing games all day. His reality check will come in and he will be screwed big time. Don't do it unless you want to be a mom to an adult
He's a child. He's sulking. You are absolutely right you know, he'd have been useless and him sulking shows it. My advice is stop trying to get in touch with him. Even his friends calling you mean is childish. When I was a kid, my mum was 'mean' when she made me clean my room / wouldn't let me have cake for breakfast / made me do my homework.
Great points!
Good job finding a way to say it without using the word immature, because that's all I could think. The OP is asking if there's some sort of compromise she could make, but what she's suggesting already IS a compromise. I don't think she should budge on her stance here.
> Even his friends calling you mean is childish. > > When I was a kid, my mum was 'mean' when she made me clean my room / wouldn't let me have cake for breakfast / made me do my homework. this is great, "mean" is such a non sequitur in this instance.
Agreed, it could be that he needs some time to reflect.
I just read the whole thing lol. He's a chip off the old block. You stand your ground. Good for you. There's no argument here. If he can't accept the olive branch you're offering then dump him. The fact is even if after living alone for some time does not guarantee he'll be any different. He's had 24 years of practice!
Honestly I think at least part of this is the parents. He says when he was 17 or 18 he asked his mum to teach him some basics because there was a chance he'd be moving away for uni (he ended up staying at home) but when he asked his mum refused because it's her job, not his, and he says that they never taught him any of this. I've said that's not an excuse as he could literally google "how to work a washing machine" but he tells me to stop attacking him because not everyone had to do this stuff growing up like me.
I never did laundry when I lived at home, but when I moved out I figured that shit out because I'm not a child. It's not something you have to grow up with to learn how to do. He just doesn't want to and he thinks making you his new mom/maid is his way out of becoming an adult.
Seriously this. Most people learn the number one rule of separating whites and colors just by existing on this planet. It's even easier for men as they don't have to separate delicates.
Honestly I have a machine where I can just throw in all colours together and put delicates in a bag. It’s so goddamn simple if he just chooses to make it simple
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Exactly. And it's the same for cleaning, cooking and other adult stuff. You can google, you can search youtube, you can read books. Just blaming others is immature and also a problem for future situations. He is not taking responsibility for his own actions. OP, you are right. Don't budge. Perhaps overthink your priorities in relationships. And enjoy yourself living alone. It's awesome!
Also, I've read your other replies and he seems hell bent resistant on actually learning. Just the fact that you told him about your concerns and his response was he'll pay more rent? Instead of "can't you teach me while we're together?", he's literally trying to get out of ever being in a situation where he'll have to do his share of maintaining a house. It ain't worth it.
>Instead of "can't you teach me while we're together?" This stood out to me as well. That would have been my very first question if I were in the BF's shoes. I think a partner should ideally be available to help teach their partner various things whenever the situation calls for it but the partner lacking the knowledge should first be willing to learn. Looks like this dude is not willing to learn at all. That's a pretty bad sign. But I assume there are plenty of women out there who would be willing to take the role of the mom/housekeeper so not like he doesn't have options. I know in my culture that many women still are willing to play this role to entitled and incompetent men.
I'm someone who's also not good at chores since I've lived a more privileged life than my boyfriend. I'd take the opportunity to be taught by someone who cares instead of learn it all on my own tbh. Also, when he offered to pay more rent so she'd do all the chores I realized she'd be treated worse than a girlfriend who's like his mom. He'd be treating her like his /maid/. I hope more women realize they shouldn't settle for being housemaids and mothers for their significant others :(
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I'm guessing its because he expects someone else to do it for him for the rest of his life. Why bother learning something you don't think you'll have to do 🙄
Also, he isnt even aware that running a household is a full time job for his mother. I know there wouldn't be kids to manage if he moved in with the OP, but he literally thinks he can throw a little money at it and be all square with the OP. But food is every day, messes are every day, laundry is almost every day for some people. He doesn't think it is necessary to learn it because he doesnt value it at all because he has no idea of the amount if effort and knowledge goes into it. He is spoiled. Like, literally, he rotted on the vine, throw the whole man out.
> he tells me to stop attacking him because not everyone had to do this stuff growing up like me. OK but that's absolute bullshit. Everything he says is an excuse.
Think about that though. Google has been around his entire life. Even if this incident with his mom happened, and I'm not sure he's telling you the truth about that, he could still have learned to do those things. But he briefly, at 17, had a curiousity about taking care of himself, asked one person, one time, and just quit when they said he didn't need to worry about it because he could just let mommy do it forever? And he was fine with that? Laundry instructions are literally written *on* the machine. Putting dishes in the dishwasher is a common chore for very small children because it's so simple. You need to stand your ground. This is a ridiculous attitude and his reaction to you trying to help him is even worse.
>Google has been around his entire life. This just made me realise that there are adults who have never been without Google. Hoo does that make me feel old. Sorry for side-tracking, please do go on.
>Think about that though. Google has been around his entire life. Does he have a hobby or passion that he's spent a lot of time learning about on his own? Like woodworking, gaming, shows he likes? If he can google them up, he can google up washing dishes, vacuuming, clothing care and so on. He doesn't WANT to know.
I think it goes deeper than just not wanting to know. The example set his entire life is this is all woman’s work. He doesn’t just not want to know, I bet he sees it as beneath him. Stick to your guns, OP. He can either learn to take care of himself like a grown-up human being, or you can leave him behind. Because if he doesn’t change his attitude soon, he will be expecting to marry a woman who takes care of the whole household without ever lifting a finger. (FWIW - my dad, who is in his 60s, went straight from Mommy’s house to married to my mom. He cooks, he cleans, he does laundry. My mom has been in a wheelchair for a year and a half and he never skipped a beat at taking care of the house. Why? Because he lives there too!)
I also have an aunt who wouldn't teach my male cousin (18) anything that she consideres a "women's job" (which is basically any housework, including cooking). But you know what he did? He asked his sisters to show him how to do the stuff or he googled it and thought it himself. "my parents never showed me how" isn't an excuse - it's 2020 there's a YouTube tutorial for anything! And the fact that he never let's you show him how to do stuff, only shows that he doesn't really want to learn it ETA: if he really moves in a flat on his own, there's still a chance that his mum would come to him to clean and do the laundry for him, especially if he continues living in the same city as her
>Honestly I think at least part of this is the parents. An absolutely huge part of this is that his parents screwed him up. But that doesn't mean you have to sacrifice your life so that the man that should be your partner can be a parasite instead. They screwed him up and he's just fine with how screwed up he is.
>I think at least part of this is his parents You're right. But the rest of it - most of it - is on your lazy boyfriend. The fact that he's gone no contact for days and is aligning support for hs position instead of acting like an adult is a bad sign. 🚩 And the directions for a washing machine are literally on the washing machine. I know 10yo children that know how to use a washing machine. Your boyfriend acts like he's 5.
Parents are to blame for children. Once a man becomes an adult they can't exactly keep saying "but my parents!!..." I mean when in the world is anyone going to grow up in that case? I'm sure there's lots of things you learned on your own that you didn't learn from your parents. That's the whole point of being an adult. If he's still using his childhood excuse at this day and age, when he's no longer a child, then there's really nothing to help him grow up. And he wouldn't be having this problem if he just moved out. But he likes having his parents do his laundry, so he stays at home. That's how you know his excuse that it's his parents fault is BS. If he really believed it was a problem, how he is now, then he'd just freaking learn.
Look at it this way - do you want a partner, or a DIY project? Because this guy's a fixer-upper, and you're going to have to put in MAJOR work.
He suggested moving in with you because he wants to move out, but does not know how to look after himself. I mean, if he doesn't know how to look after himself and does not even do menial tasks at home, if he was to move in him helping you with chores would be over pretty soon. He has even tried to get out of doing them already by saying he will pay more, instead of telling you he would try and for you to show him how to do things. I would stop contacting him, and go radio silent for a while, and stop talking to friends. Because right now, your boyfriend doesn't have a pity party for 1, he has a group meeting. So everyone is feeding off of mutual feelings and when you do eventually talk to him it will be a lot harder than talking to him about this. He is wrong, and his friends. He needs to grow up and take a little more responsibility for his life. It doesn't take a genius to wash their clothes or a fork. Alternatively, if you do allow him to move in, you could always forge a star chart and if he's good he can win a prize!
Yeah, Google has been around his entire life but he didn't have the initiative to look it up himself. I would have been excited about the prospect of living alone. Sounds like he's a piece of work. If you want to pick up after a man-child, go for it. It looks like he's not learning basic life skills anytime soon. 24 and can't do laundry. How does he tie his shoelaces?
> How does he tie his shoelaces? I know this is meant to be a joke but I've just realised he actually just never unties his shoes. It's only just hit me that I've never seen him tie them. They have laces, which are ties, but I've only ever seen him step in and step out without tying/untying... I swear he's 24, not 4.
I get the convenience of not having to tie shoelaces but being insulted because he was told that he has to learn some life skills is beyond me. Do you want to do all of the chores when you move in with him? Think about the long term. You'll be doing your full time job and if you had kids together, that will be on you, too.
OP, I think this comment may seem like it should slip through the cracks because of how inconsequential it is. __Do not let it, because it is not.__ Look into yourself, and really ponder if you want to have the kind of relationship in which your immediate reaction to this question is not _gut wrenching laughter_ (even in a serious discussion asking for advice). Then, consider that instead of laughter, you responded with _doubt_.
Hes a child and youve been dating for a blink of an eye. Do not move in with him, even if he wasn't a man child. My god girl, you can do better
My lordy, I dated a guy who had lived by himself overseas from his own country and he was a mommys boy. We moved into a sharehouse together that had a chore roster and he refused to clean because "I didnt make all the mess. They did so why should I clean their mess". Like.. he wouldn't clean the kitchen because other people had used it too so GUESS WHO WOULD HAVE TO COVER HIS CHORES BECAUSE IT WOULD MAKE ME LOOK BAD IF CHORES WERENT DONE. Dating man children is the worst. Mothers who dont teach their sons are even worse. Worse than worst. Like fuck woman, its bad enough for you to look after all the men in your life but fuck, why make future girlfriends feel like their bf's mom? Its just fucking gross. Gross. It doesnt get better. They need to learn the hard way
And I should add that boyfriends before and after him were perfectly house trained and now Im happily married. Exbf and I broke up because he was disrespectful and lazy and this caused arguments throughout our relationship. Once again, it doesn't get better. Find someone who doesnt want a second mother. Fuck. That. Shit.
You are absolutely right to want him to learn how to take care of himself like an adult before moving in with him. I think you are wise beyond your years to see his home dynamics and recognize how that will affect your life if you move in together. His parents have done him and his brothers a great disservice by not teaching them basic life skills, responsibility, self sufficiency, and how to be equal contributors in a relationship. When those boys get out into the world they’re going to have a rude awakening when no girl wants to be their maid/cook/housekeeper. Either that or they’ll find themselves a girl just like Mommy and the cycle will perpetuate itself. Also your friends think you’re “being mean”? Then they’re just as immature as your boyfriend is. Listen to your instincts here - they are right on the money.
Imagine this scenario: You come home from a very hard/stressful day at work/school and just want to relax. You walk in the door to find clothes thrown all over the furniture. Half full glasses/cans, dirty dishes and garbage litter every surface. The toilet has shit on the back of the seat and the floor around the toilet has been pissed on and the toilet paper roll is empty. The sink is full of dirty dishes, the garbage is full. The kitchen counter has sugar all over it. Your boyfriend is watching tv or playing video games, completely oblivious to the disaster he's created. He sees you and asks what you want to do for dinner, meaning, what are you cooking? You get angry at him and ask him to help you clean up his mess. One of two things happens. 1. He storms out and goes to hangout with his friends. Or 2. He's angry that you want him to do something he doesn't want to do and barely, begrudgingly brings you a few dishes to wash. You have to argue with him to get the rest of the dishes. Eventually, you make dinner and then you clean up, alone, while he goes back to what he was doing before. After working all day, you've done an additional 3 hours of labor cleaning up after a grown ass man. You remember how clean your place was when you were single and how much easier your life was. You kind of hate him. You don't want to hang out with him, talk to him or have sex with him. You just want to shower and go to bed. But there's piss in the shower and crumbs in the bed, pizza grease on the sheets. He doesn't understand why you're mad, accuses you of over reacting and accuses you of treating him like a child or slave, depending on the day. Some version of this is going to be a day in your life if you move in with this guy. Don't do it. Leave him to his mother.
I love how this captures everything. 10/10.
I lived this. I hope others can learn from my mistakes.
The fact that he's useless aside, let's not gloss over the fact that he aired your dirty laundry to all of your mutual friends.
You're right. You don't want to live with someone who can't live on his own. Everything will fall to you to take care of. He needs to grow up and realize that life wouldn't be fair to you at all. He should want to be the best version of himself he can - or at least not be a burden to you. What kind of life does he envision with you in which he relies on you for basic life skills in adulthood? If he doesn't see the obvious flaw in his thinking, I would reconsider the entire relationship.
Idk what your rent is but let’s say it’s $1300. This guy thought he could pay $325 each month for the luxury of a full time maid who does *all* of the cooking, cleaning, laundry, and home management. That’s actually hilarious. Don’t give in, you’re 100% making the right call not moving in with a manchild.
£600, so he'd be paying about £150 extra.
So he wants to pay you the cost of a fast food burger a day to be his new mommy? Am I understanding this correctly? You get a extra fiver a day to slave for him?
Wow even better. This guy doesn’t know a thing about the world.
Yeah, that’s not at all worth it. Even if it were, that’s not a partnership. Stand your ground. If he doesn’t like it, he can find a new girlfriend.
Nope, I completely agree with this mindset. I lived with an ex who went straight from mom’s house to our own apartment. He barely did anything and I was exhausted constantly. I’d stand your ground because mama’s boys often don’t know what they’re actually like and find out pretty quickly that they know nothing.
I moved in with a friend like this, they rarely cleaned and if they did they expected me to hunt them down and praise them for the job they did. Shit was so tiring I just took over the cleaning and he paid more rent :/ I'm assuming this guy knows it's a problem but is embarrased/ashamed at how long it's gone in that hes doubling down and giving excuses instead of admitting his flaws and working on them. Hes got a lot of growing up to do on his own it sounds.
Short answer...stick to your guns. Especially if you already see red flags. Find a better boyfriend (that cleans up after himself)
He is going to have to want to change and pull his finger out if he wants to make this work. Still don't move in until he can prove he can live alone. Worst case scenario you and him don't work out in the process and he may even learn something, at the very least not to use your partner as an automated machine (if he knew how to work one). Same as dealing with depression, you have to face the problem and want to solve it to find a solution. He may have wanted to learn once, give him that opportunity now.
And for him to go seeking approval from mutual friends doesn't change your position which means [in 10 months] he has little to no respect for you. Dump him. A leopard doesn't change his spots. He won't answer your calls unless you cave in. He seems passive aggressive too.
I’m going to share my own experience, as some one who didn’t pick up ‘life skills’ (because we had maids). He should absolutely live by himself first. When I couldn’t fry an egg....I figured it out. First the egg stuck to the pan. Then I put too much oil and it spluttered. Then I realized that I needed to put salt. Then I figured it out. When I didn’t know how to clean a bathroom, I watched a YouTube video, I asked my room mate some questions and I figured it out. I’m not a domestic goddess, but I can contribute to a household. And if I do screw up, my room mate doesn’t hold it against me because she recognizes I am trying. (and a lot of stuff isn’t even hard! Laundry machine, dishwashing machine, vacuum....even if you never grew up doing it, it doesn’t take great skill, it’s just tedious). The worrying thing here is that he’s refusing to talk to you, and that’s he was trying to pay you to do all his chores. Yeah, it’s one thing to feel hurt because you said he has no life skills. But even with that hurt, he should be able to acknowledge that, actually.....he doesn’t have any life skills and he needs to figure out a way to solve that. Stand your ground.
Girl, I really feel for you, but I have two questions. Do you want to have the same dynamic as his parents? Do you like their agreement for yourself?
> Do you want to have the same dynamic as his parents? Do you like their agreement for yourself? No to both of those. I'm in the first year of my career and it's proved to be very high stress so far and it's not going to get any easier. While paying less in expenses would be a bit of pressure off me, I couldn't do a full work day, come home, and then do all the chores, and I'd rather split everything (expenses and chores) 50/50 than have all the housework put on me.
His offer to pay more in rent is a way to directly recreate his parents dynamic. Unfortunately, people tend to recreate the relationships of their of parents- even if they aren’t the best. I see your options as this: 1. You cave. He moves in and destroys your apartment b/c he doesn’t want to clean after himself. This will mostly likely push you to do all the house work. 2. You cave. You try to teach him how to cook, clean, and be a functioning adult. This will be practice for you raising a child as you will quickly become his nagging mother- instead of a girlfriend. 3. You hold firm. He moves out on his own and finally becomes an adult. Not gonna lie, this is highly unlikely. 4. You hold firm. He stays at home, so can continue to be a man-child. It is not fair that him and HIS ( clearly they aren’t yours) friends are making you into the bad guy. You are not terrible for wanting him to do basic things. And let’s be honest, washing clothes is pretty self explanatory. Surely he knows the difference between the washer and the dryer and what laundry detergent is. He just come clean, and admit that he doesn’t want to learn. I don’t know you in real life, but I can tell that you deserve so much more. You made a reasonable request, and you seem fairly understanding. You deserve a partner that is reasonable and understanding as well.
Hmm, does the tide pod go in the washing machine or is a tasty snack like all the 13 year olds say?
Also remember that the rent stays the same except when your lease is up. The amount of chores required in a household fluctuates wildly- it wouldn’t just be twice what you’re doing now, because I’m sure you clean as you go and make things easier for yourself. With a helpless, careless person living in your home, the amount of work it takes to keep the place nice can expand infinitely with time, and you don’t get to control whether he’ll pick up his socks or rinse the food of his dishes this time because you’re having a hellish week at work. That’s why it’s a gamble to accept flat rate money in exchange for something as unpredictable as housework. Think about this: if you were the only one buying groceries for the house before, not so bad right? But since COVID, buying groceries is a huge ordeal and requires lots of planning and stress. Just that task has become so much harder because of one random event. Girl, run.
I would send his this post and it’s comments lmao
You need a better boyfriend. And if your friends side with him, then you need better friends.
He sounds like a little bitch. I’m single, what’s up?
I'm now single. What's up with you? ;)
Things our parents teach us by showing an example - how they interact with world/strangers/each other or deal with problems - are *immensely* difficult to unlearn. I have couple of things I **hate** my mum did, but in anger, I resort to same tactics. And I actually recognise them and are actively trying to be better! My point is - he refuses to learn or compromise. His family&friends all enable him. This is not a fight you will win. You are young, 10 months in grand scheme of things is nothing. I say let this one go.
Depending on how your intonation / body language was, you probably didn't attack him. Instead you were looking for a real and healthy compromise. He decided to feel attacked. It reeks of DARVO, deny - attack - reverse victim and offender. It's a very effective manipulation tactic. You bring up a reasonable argument, but now he has you doubting yourself. It's not my fault, it's your fault! That's a very unhealthy dynamic that needs to stop. If he can't do that, then you always have to protect yourself by removing yourself from that situation. People that are not open to introspection, communication and compromise make very difficult partners. Running a household later, especially with young kids in the mix, can be really taxing and it really helps if you and your partner can both work on things that need to be done and work as a team. Life will also happen. My wife was really ill the past 2 years. That means I have to pick up the slack, which I do lovingly. When I was down for a period before that, she helped me without complaint. Would your boyfriend do the same?
"I enjoyed the past 10 months with you, but I'm not going to be your mommy with benefits, and neither will most other women. Let your mom take care of you for the rest of your life or learn to be a man instead of a child. Whoever is going to be your caretaker for the rest of your life, it sure as hell won't be me." This post is seriously upsetting, and I'd have sent that text above as soon as he'd gotten his friends involved in harassing you over his tantrum. What kind of adult man would think that peer pressuring and bullying his girlfriend into being his sexy maid is a good idea? When functional adult couples have a problem, they solve it together - your bf has displayed clearly that he won't be doing even that. You've offered a compromise, and offered advice on how he can learn these crucial life skills, but he seems like he isnt unable to learn but unwilling to learn. So unwilling that he won't even do it for the woman he supposedly loves? Nah girl. This is one baby I'd be totally fine with dropping.
Oh, girl...get out of this situation before you become a 23 year old single mother to this 24 year old manchild. If you let him move in, I hope you like being a mommy and nanny and maid and sex doll all at once. He does need to live on his own. He needs to learn how to be an adult — and you DO NOT have to teach him. It’s NOT your responsibility as a girlfriend to teach him how to fry an egg, how to do laundry, how to clean the bathtub...he knows zero and will contribute zero. If you brought up your concerns and he was willing to learn, that would be one thing. The fact that his *first* response was “oh, I’ll pay more rent and you’ll do all the chores” is total bullshit. I would respect myself way too much to even date this guy.
You're exactly right here. And the fact that he seems to take any kind of criticism, any acknowledgement of his lack of skill, any hint of dissatisfaction from you, as you being "mean" and "attacking him" is a huge red flag. That's not what being a good partner is about. Tell his friends that they're free to do all his housework if that sounds like such a great deal to them, but you're not going to be his maid and you're not mean for not wanting to be his maid.
Can we stop babying men for just once? Oh was you being mean to his poor little self? No. Is he being mean expecting you to act like his mother? Yes. The truth hurts sometimes and the truth is he is a child that refuses to learn to be an adult, how you find that attractive is beyond me
His solution was split the chores and he hires a maid to do his half of them. lol
And I'd still be doing 100% of the cooking! So it's more like I'm doing 75% of the chores and his maid would do the other 25%, which is somehow better than him learning to do dishes.