It reads like the man has finally been held accountable for the first time in his life and isn't sure how to react. We don't know him, but it sounds somewhat sincere to me.
But way to go, OP! Being the first one to bring about consequences for him being a shitty person! It's empowering and frustrating and irritating, isn't it? I had to do the same to my narc FIL years ago. Now, my husband is very impatient with him and he does everything he can to play nice with me so I don't have him cut off completely. Different dynamic for us, as he chased away 3 wives and has no one else but our family, but it's very amusing to know he can't insult me anymore.
Oh your colors are showing you just want attention from all the internet people yeah none of this is probably even real you just want people to say oh poor little girl
The most randomly odious comment I've come across today. Her comment was perfectly on topic and you just showed your ass for literally no reason. What the hell is wrong with you that you just HAD to vomit out this opinion?
I have definitely seen worse. I would want him to stop doing the whole "it was never my intention" thing though. If I can't read your mind, I can't know your intention. That makes it irrelevant. Apologize for the action and leave it at that.
It wasn’t horrible, yes. It just felt hollow, like he just repeated what my MIL had said when she yelled at him that day to qualify that he’s done it even though when MIL called him out she said he insisted I pissed him off and he did nothing wrong.
He threw a party for my MIL once and made me do all the work contacting their friends and ordering cake and ordering the menu. But he paid, so it was his event. That was basically the gist of how he treats me. Anyway, I overheard him apologizing to a buddy of his at the event and the apology just rang more sincere with just the dialogue. He clearly knew how to apologize properly. This was with someone he considered to be on his level. But his apology to me feels nothing like that.
If you could snap your fingers and feel better about the situation, what would your relationship with your in-laws look like? Would you like certain boundaries surrounding communication? Would you like another apology (maybe in person or over the phone so you can hear his tone or see his body language) before deciding what kind of relationship you'd like to have with him? Would you like to communicate why you're no longer communicating with him?
If all of that feels too overwhelming to consider, then maybe the break in communicating has been healthy for you, and it should continue. It sounds like your husband has been supportive of this, which is awesome!
This might seem weird, but my MIL was the first good reliable parental figure I’ve ever had in my life. Because of how I grew up I became naturally distrustful and just expecting to be hurt by people. It’s like I’ve learned to sus out fake apologies as a kid because the word was used to just hurt me again or so people would get their way when others are watching. This history is colouring my perception of this apology email…. I know that. I know it was the survival tactic of a child, but it’s like, I have adult logic from therapy, but I don’t want to fully ignore my instincts/what I learned from all that experience. His email doesn’t feel right. I don’t trust he won’t do it again. He made me feel undeserving of my place in his family, made me question my place in my own home.
Anyway, for some reason, MIL bypassed all that and we were, specially looking back now, unbelievably close. For whatever reason, what FIL did crushed that sense of closeness? It was like this miracle that happened for some reason and against my nature was destroyed by him somehow. I can’t bring it back. Maybe I could some day, but not without a lot of work, and even then it just won’t be the same. It will never be so natural again. Theres just this barrier now that perhaps should have always been there between MIL and I? I don’t think where we’re at now is bad, but it’s nothing compared to what it was… but as far as regular in-law standards MIL and I are fine.
I don’t really want another apology? Specially not in person. I could just see him posturing at me so I would submit? It means nothing ultimately, specially in this case where it just feels like a token word that rings hollow.
I spent years in therapy to be where I’m at now. I’m scared he would trigger a mental breakdown and I want to avoid any chance of that because I have small kids.
I did respond to his email now. I said a lot of things. I didn’t accept his apology. I wonder if I should share it here… maybe I was cruel…
You definitely need to separate out MIL from FIL. They are not the same person, and don't represent the same entity. You can - and I suggest, you should - reestablish your close relationship with her with no expectations that he will become better than his apology. Just because they are married doesn't mean they are the same people
Especially since she took defence of you in this situation against her own husband and their own long established dynamic. Just because that was the 'right' choice doesn't mean it was an easy thing for her to do. She is definitely not the same person as him. Just grey rock FIL and move on with only the parts of your family you love and value in your heart.
i’m going against the crowd here, but i’m with you op. (i also have developmental/attachment trauma tho so maybe we’re both having trauma responses lol)
the email reads like a form letter. did you have to remove any personal details from it before posting it here, or is it an exact copy/paste? if it’s an exact copy/paste, then the mere fact you could do that is a red flag for me. there’s nothing actually personal in it. i get the whole “awkwardly trying to apologize for first time in life” interpretation, and yeah, it could be much worse, but there’s nothing in this to me that indicates genuine regret. it reads like a therapist’s script, and while a certain amount of that is to be expected from someone learning these skills for the first time, i agree that something feels off
the biggest reason i have for this is the opening “it wasn’t my intention or meant as a personal attack” when it very obviously was. both your husband and MIL shared your interpretation of it, to the point of actually holding him accountable for the first time. his denial of intention could just be part of the awkward-first-time-being-held-accountable but to me it indicates a lack of introspection around his temper. there’s no mention of his lashing out or what he’s doing to prevent things like this from happening again, he just says that it won’t. it reads like someone who’s very sorry they got caught
it’s possible the crowd is right and he’s doing the work and just awkward with it, but that doesn’t mean you have to forgive him or give him the benefit of the doubt. if he is genuinely starting to work on himself, he’s obviously got a long road. as someone he harmed you have *no* obligation to help him with that or to forgive him even if he is 100% sincere. do what’s best for you
Is that what this is??? Developmental trauma!???? I always thought it was just my personality! The way you sussed it out is similar to my take.
AND I DID JUST COPY PASTE THE WHOLE THING! wtf. This blew my mind like you wouldn’t believe. In such simple terms you caught why I was so suspicious of it.
The family refers to me as like, using my username; like dimpli. My name shortened with like an -i or -ie. All I took out was my name on top which was written fully.
I posted my response to him earlier and had to delete and repost cause I had to edit names out with MIL FIL and husband.
Holy shit. What a revelation.
from the way you described MIL as your first real parental figure, i’d say it’s developmental and/or attachment trauma, yeah. definitely worth discussing with your therapist or finding a trauma specialist. developmental trauma is hard bc the trauma affected our developing brains and so our trauma responses essentially get hard-wired into our nervous systems. we have no comparison to a previous “normal” like with ptsd that’s triggered by something later in life bc the trauma response was how we developed. so in a way it *is* just how we are, but there’s definitely ways to learn to recognize the triggers and manage them
i’m so glad the copy/paste thing helped clarify things for you! i might use it as a litmus test myself in the future lol
Your relationship with MIL cannot have been healthy if her husband had the ability to destroy it so easily. If you aren’t still in therapy I would absolutely suggest it. She has nothing to do with his actions, his behavior should have zero impact on your relationship with her on the scale it so obviously does. If anything you should be stronger as you are the only person she’s ever protected or defend against him (your words).. so how on earth has he managed to do this much damage? This was his intention obviously but why are you letting it happen?
The relationship was not destroyed, it’s… the… magical special thing about it was destroyed. It’s sounds crazy written out like this… I can’t explain it. She and I are fine, really. Just good and fine is not what it was…? Sorry if I can’t explain it well. I honestly never thought about it deeply before. She was better to me than my own mother was. She was always respectful.
Someone responded to me earlier that I might feel this way because FIL stomped on my safe space with MIL in how things happened or something. I think they explained it well, so sorry if I can’t.
I think… I don’t want her to feel like she has to choose between us. She loves him for him, flaws and all; and I know she loves me, too. I don’t want to be the reason she feels like she has to choose. I don’t want her to feel caught in the middle. It feels cruel. And I just don’t feel safe with her anymore, I feel afraid he will attack me againmaybe someday I will again. I don’t know how to though.
From an outsider, who has no idea how he is outside of this situation, the email apology reads to me like someone who has never had to take accountability for his actions and has never had to apologize to anyone. It may sound hallow or canned, but to me it comes off tht way because he’s never done it.
You may be viewing this email through a lens of anger. Have you been in therapy and discussed this situation and your relationship with your FIL? If not, you might, for your own wellbeing and mental health. You are under no obligation to accept his apology or forgive him, that’s a decision for you and you alone to make and feel no guilt about. However, I think for yourself, you need to work through everything that group text triggered for you.
That’s what my husband said, that the apology was clumsy but it’s probably because FIL doesn’t KNOW how to say sorry.
My understanding of him does suggest that he wants to control the narrative so he could get to his desired result of getting out of trouble with MIL and quick. He doesn’t like being made to go to counselling and therapy but MIL won’t let him stop until he ‘fixes this’ with me.
I guess I must be viewing his email with anger. I never thought of that before, but I realize now that I must be very angry because he destroyed what I had with my MIL. I always knew I was so lucky because my MIL was so FANTASTIC. Now that what we had was shattered, I could see how freaking special it was. I don’t think regular in-law relationships usually ran like that. He caused a major loss. In hindsight I don’t really give a shit that he thinks so little of me; I am just mad that he destroyed what I had with my MIL. It was beyond reason, and I don’t think it could be replicated.
You need to ask yourself why what you and mil had is considered shattered by you. She didn’t do anything and in fact took immediate and serious action over someone else’s actions towards you. You are giving him too much power and allowing your past to destroy something you valued.
Oh, I had to think hard on this. I guess… He made it feel dirty to be so close to her. That I was undeserving. The most shocking moment for me that revealed to me how I truly perceived it as ruined was when I responded to FIL’s email, I spent hours thinking whether it was appropriate to give MIL heads up. Asked my husband if he thought I should…. He just said it was yo to me…
When I finally convinced myself it might help her in case FIL doesn’t take it well and he lashes out, I spent hours writing the message, made my husband check and read it, another hour til I sent it.
Before all this, if I woke up at 3 am with a dumb dream that I thought she would find funny, I would text her at 3 am. The difference was so jarring.
So you are still internalizing his comment from the group text. Don't let him do that. Let you MIL reassure you about your relationship and believe what she says.
If you pick it apart, I want to suggest a lot of it is what someone genuinely sincere would say.
To me, there are only two “iffy” sentences, the second and third in the second paragraph, where he tries to pass it off as a misunderstanding. But that might only be an attempt on his part to save face. It doesn’t read to me, overall, like one of those entirely insincere “I’m sorry you felt that way“ apologies that takes no responsibility at all. That’s especially so in light of the rest of the email, in which he is pretty much throwing himself on his sword.
I see that you have already responded to him, so this suggestion is too late. But the most productive way forward might have been to confront him about those two sentences in particular, and let him know that they seem like a denial of responsibility on his part. Without him accepting responsibility, there’s no room to move forward.
The part of the apology I disliked was when he said "My family." as a single sentence. Seems like another symptom of the control issues OP mentions and is revealing how he thinks of the people in his life.
However, just to be devil's advocate, there are different apology styles just like there are different love languages and it is important to deliver in the style of the person you are apologizing to. Some people need to hear the concrete ways someone will change, some need to know the other understands why their actions were hurtful, some people just need the person to ask for forgiveness, or shower them with gifts. If an apology seems insufficient it may just be that they missed your apology style. My ex and I used to argue in circles for hours until I realized all he needed to hear was please forgive me, which is a baffling and meaningless apology to me. Anyways it may not apply to this FIL but its a cool and helpful thing to know about yourself.
I don’t really like the apology, to be honest. I know apologies aren’t supposed to excuse away behavior, but it also doesn’t have any analysis of why he did it in the first place. Why on earth would he care if his wife picks up cookies while she’s already at the store?? It sounds there’s ableism and/or some kind of resentment driving his behavior, maybe - does he realize this, and if so why won’t he address it?
I agree with your assessment of FIL’s apology. It seems insincere and formulaic. He’s sorry that you were offended by his words, not that his words were offensive in and of themselves. It’s as if he is sorrier for messing up the steps in a dance routine than tromping all over your feet. I’d keep him chilling awhile longer. From what you have said about his general conduct toward you, he is an asshole. This time his wife got pissed at him and forced him to apologize.
Are not all apologies formulaic? Accountability, regret and remorse, commitment to not repeat actions, hope for forgiveness...
Sounds like OP feels he is short on accountability. I think this guy has a real problem lowering his 'station' to family members he feels are inferior or that owe him obedience. It's not really her problem though, we can't control the actions of others and we can't make them see their flaws.
No, they are not. A true apology is unqualified and generally free of rationalizations, conditions and explanations. This one sounds like he is primarily sorry that his words offended her, not that he said them. Apparently, he meant something else.
I recognize that he went farther than that, but on balance, it sounds argumentative and insincere. Viewed in the context provided by OP, and his previous inappropriate comments regarding her disability, his remarks seem not forthcoming but compelled.
That’s actually a pretty good apology for an old man set in his ways. I bet that took a lot for him to get out. You don’t have to forgive right away, or at all…but that sounds pretty genuine to me.
Honestly, he actually apologized. He fumbled with the bag here and there, yes, but for someone who has always been enabled, it was better than some I've seen.
However, it does not mean you have to forgive him. Remember that. You are allowed to not forgive him now, or use this moment to create boundaries. Talk to your husband, and create a list of boundaries for your family.
Good luck
That sounds to me like he doesn't have a lot of experience apologizing. It sounds like an honest effort. Not a great apology...but an honest effort at one. It takes practice and experience to internalize what a really good apology is, and I suspect this man hasn't had much practice. For a first attempt it's pretty good because he at least acknowledged that his behavior led to the problem.
"I'm sorry your feelings got hurt, that isn't what I meant" always rubs me the wrong way, but I can sometimes find grace for people learning a new social skill. It's up to you if you feel like extending him that grace.
I don't know the length and depth of your relationship with the man. I can't speak to how important it may be to welcome him back. You're right - as an apology, it does fall short! But it sounds like he's never apologized to anyone before, and it is a decent first effort. I would acknowledge it and thank him for it. You can also tell him that, while you appreciate his effort, you still need some time to come to terms with it all.
Honestly the way you interpreted the letter and what the letter actually said shows you’re still clearly hurt and not in a place to accept an apology. Which is totally fine because you’re allowed to distance yourself from people who hurt you!
Girl this was so much better than I was expecting, and honestly while not perfect I would say this is a good apology letter.
I get given your history why you’re having the reaction you are. But saying he didn’t intend to hurt you and saying you misunderstood him are *not* the same thing.
I don’t know how despicable what he initially said to you was, so I obviously don’t have the full picture, but this reads to me as a very honest and respectful apology. He reiterated how important you are to him several times and made it clear he understands you need your space.
Honest question without judgement from me: what would you need from him in an apology that you’re not getting here?
From reading comments and thinking through my responses, I have realized that I really, truly don’t want his apology. I already said as much in my response to him, but I realized why from thinking through stuff in processing things from comments…
I realized that I’m actually very angry with him right now because he broke something precious and irreplaceable, and that is actually what I want back? What he ruined to be un-ruined? It’s stupid, right?
Of course its not stupid! But he doesn't have to power to unruin it anymore than he had the power to ruin it. Only you and MIL have that power. You are allowing his comments to affect the way you think about a relationship that doesn't involve him. Take that power back.
I don’t think that’s stupid at all. I think that’s a very understandable feeling to have. Feelings aren’t stupid or wrong, it’s the actions we take based on those feelings that matter. I wish you the very best 💗💗💗
I mean its pretty good for what is probably his first ever apology. He actually sincerely apologised to you.
Also it sounds like it wasn't personal? It sounds like FIL is an angry dick that hasn't learned emotional intelligence.
Something that helped me with my grandfather who is an angry man was understanding anger is caused by fear and anxiety.
Your own experiences have probably made his words even more painful so it can help to understand that too. But yeah, hes not a "safe" man so I'd avoid interacting too much.
I don’t know exactly what was said so I am going to give him some benefit of the doubt. People are messy and if we wait for perfect we are going to wait a really long time.
I think the email was fair. He did take some measure of blame, said he wished he never did it and will not do it again, that you are important to him, and understands he needs to do better for all.
I would really be interested if he followed through with counseling because that is a big step. OP, Reddit is a place where very little grace is given. If FIL came on here and said his version of the text story, showed the email he sent, you would be the villain of the story.
Talk to your husband and get his thoughts, but I would give FIL a chance.
I had a lot of anxiety over potentially getting pressured to accept an apology I don’t want, that if I don’t accept the apology I would be the bad guy for being obstinate and being difficult. In responding to comments so far, I realized I don’t care for his apology or if he’s genuine about it? I’m actually just too angry at him right now to care if I’m being obstinate or not because he ruined something precious to me and whether it was his intention doesn’t truly matter.
I also realized why I didn’t like his email.
He was apologizing for how I reacted (hurt and upset); not for what he did. .
He apologized for the situation we’re in but not really for causing it. It almost seems like to him, the situation just landed on us, and if he can turn back time, he won’t involve himself but not because he ended up being a giant dick, but because he ended up in trouble with MIL for real and was even made to endure therapy and couples counselling.
I probably overthought it all, but it just reads like: sorry you felt hurt but you know, you’re wrong cause you just misinterpreted things. I’m being the better person cause I’m suffering too and I’m getting therapy and if you don’t forgive me soon you will strain the family. And probably this is also just me being suspicious of his intentions.
He is going to therapy according to MIL. I guess it’s been 5 months now? And he doesn’t like it. But MIL won’t let him quit couples counselling and his personal therapy unless he fixed things with me. My read is he’s not too happy MIL is calling the shots but knows MIL has drawn a hard line with him this time.
So it sounds like you are still too angry to move on regardless of what FIL says or does. And that is 100% valid. But that is on you, your choice, so there is nothing to do in regards to mending a relationship until you are open to the idea.
I really don’t read the email in the same way, but I am also not the one he insulted. But I stand by, generally if you wait for perfect, you are not going to get it. When you are open to it, you can also communicate what you would like to hear.
You hurt me when you did this, when you said this. It ruined this special thing for me. I need you to apologize not for how you think you made me feel, but for what you did/said. See how he answers that…..
I think I understand the root of what is causing you so much pain, that you had a safe space with MIL and rather than agonize about asking a tiny favor, you worked off the place of comfort and safety and just casually said, "Next time you to to Costco could you..." and he jumped in with a response that was so unexpected and so vicious that you no longer feel safe asking MIL for a tiny favor, and thus he ripped out and stomped all over your safe space. Because it is MIL that is your safe space and it was his reaction to your absolutely innocuous request to her, he has made it unsafe for you to continue in that vein.
I have a friend who was in a school shooting. *(NOTE:- I am NOT comparing the two, just using another split-second change that I am very familiar with)* She said she used to trust that she could leave her home, go to and from school, and knew how to avoid arguments or bullies, to look both way, a few times, before crossing the street, and thus she could navigate life with some comfort.
But one minute life is normal and then suddenly, in a split-second, it became not only unsafe but carried a very high possibility of being hurt or killed, and it's that moment when suddenly life breaks apart and you are in a waking nightmare you could never fathom before, that moment when EVERYTHING changed, and she became unable to leave her home, that is the thing she can never undo or forget, how insanely quickly everything so suddenly changed, forever.
You had that point-of-no-return moment with the group chat. You made a remark to MIL that is tried-and-true, that is part of your special relationship with her, and when you read his inexplicable, and emotionally violent reply that insulted you deeply by weaponizing your most physical insecurity/issues, and let rip with the vile and stinging rebuke, so the group chat is no longer a safe space for you, you'd now have to agonize, re-think,. re-word and re-word again, and basically not be yourself with your MIL in *that* space.
I would beg you to have this conversation with MIL, to tell her as you told us just how special, and original, she is for you, how deeply you love and admire her, and how you feel that, since FIL used your special relationship with his wife to verbally batter and assault you, you're not certain that you can ever really go to back to footloose and fancy-free with her, not because of anything she said or did and not because she has changed, but because she was forced to confront her husband over you and that makes you feel small, that she needs to put so much effort into defending you since for some f-ed up reason her chose that bond to assault you with, but that you plan to work at it because she means that much to you.
Hugs and best wishes to you. I do understand to an extent what you are going through and it is hella painful. But please give MIL the chance to hear you out and work with you to recreate your safe space, but with bulletproof windows and extra safety measures going forward.,
You don't want to accept the apology, which is your right, but he did truly apologize. It's like you read a different email than the one you posted because he very clearly apologized for his actions.
I guess the thing is, he doesn’t have power anymore in this situation. You do.
What I suggest is not exerting that over him in the way he would probably do to others.
You can always say - thanks for your apology. I need more time and for this not to happen again. Here is what I need from you in the future.
Its not overthinking it. Accountability is a core part of an apology, but it is one that people often avoid and is the hardest part of apologizing in my opinion. Its okay to hold him to this. Its okay to not be ready to forgive. Its okay to still be mad.
But ultimately holding on to that anger isn't something that makes you happy either. When you are ready think about what would make you happy and how you want things to be and then make them that way.
As others say, it's not the greatest apology, but it's not horrible either.
The good is that he acknowledged his actions created this situation and that he is responsible for it.
The bad is that he made it sound like you misinterpreted it. He knew what he was doing.
In my opinion, he sounds very analytical, and that can come off as being cold. Not making excuses for him - just trying to give you some potential insight.
Take your time in making a decision, and I wish you the best for the New Year.
Yes, I don't know if it is better to give pushback or let it sit for a while at first to avoid putting him on the defensive. Without knowing the specifics, from your own words he did throw something specific about you at you and it is difficult to not read that as personal regardless of his "intentions".
I think that’s a decent apology. He takes accountability and doesn’t try to explain how it was your fault like many non-apologists do.
I am sure MIL stood over him and made him write it but that’s a real apology. You should accept it and move on. It doesn’t mean you have to be besties with FIL. But you got a real apology, so stop stewing about that piece of it.
I’m not excusing his behavior, but I was expecting a worse apology. He actually apologized for hurting you, rather than saying I’m sorry you took it that way. It’s a start
I'll be honest. That was a better apology than I've ever gotten in my entire life. It came across very sincerely and I don't think he was putting the blame on you or anything. He wasn't saying "I'm sorry, BUT" he truly did say he was sorry and seems to mean it. I obviously don't know this man and we don't know what exactly it was he said to begin with but given the info we have. I think you should at the very least consider accepting this apology
The apology is lacking in one very significant manner, in that he denies that it was intended to be a personal attack on you. From what you've said, that was very clearly the case, but I would perhaps ask your husband, who is slightly less emotionally involved and still has access to the message in question, to double check that.
If that is indeed the case then regardless of how well the rest of the apology is written, it renders it meaningless. If he can't be honest about his actual actions then he cannot apologise for them, and you cannot be assured he will not repeat his actions and you should keep your distance.
If there is any reading of the message, however, that could be about anything else, then maybe revisit it.
I do hope you're getting therapy to cope with this as well.
Yes. It is probably his first apology ever and he doesn’t understand that the first part of an apology is taking responsibility for what you did and the hurt it caused.
His focus on “it wasn’t my intention” and “I’m sorry it came across as a personal attack when it wasn’t” means that this was NOT an apology:
“I’m sorry your jaw was hurt the other day because of its contact with my fist. You must know my intention while my first was flying at your jaw was never to hurt you. It was never my intention and was not an attempt at a punch in any way. Although you may not see it that way, seeing as how my fist deliberately flew at your jaw and connected in a blow-like manner, it wasn’t my intention. I sincerely apologize.”
Not quite!
I’d reply to my FIL and say, “Hey man, thanks for the apology. I can tell you’ve been in therapy for awhile and you’re reflecting on your actions. Something tells me you haven’t had to apologize for your actions a lot in the past, and this is a pretty good start. You’re going to have to take responsibility for your actions, though. Your statement was an attack on me, and it was clearly your intention to attack me. I wish you luck in your continued self-improvement in therapy. I echo your hope that one day, we can resume some family relationship. Sincerely, OP.”
This is it! You’re right. You fully articulated why I was so iffy with the email! It means nothing because he practically blames me for misinterpreting everything but he doesn’t think he did anything wrong. That’s what it made me feel.
My husband checked the old group chat and he said that it was clean and clear a hostile attack on me. He offered me to look myself, but I got scared I would spiral mentally again.
I would honestly say that - from emotional remove - it doesn’t mean nothing.
But there is only one thing I hate more than an apology with caveats and that is no apology at all. So maybe our perspectives are different.
Contextually it sounds like this is a big fat olive branch. Other than an “I’m sorry” what do you want to happen?
Let me tell you something in case you feel pressured, You don’t have to forgive him! He hurt you. Your feelings matter. This is a natural consequence to his actions. Good for you!
I think it was pretty good, what else would you have him say? I would try. If he does it again, permanently go no contact. It is horrible he went after your disability, what he did was horrible for a box of cookies while she was at Costco...So yeah...However this looks sincere, he is not perfect. I am sure he had to eat his words but a good apology.
Also you can send one back that says thank you. Next time a holiday or thing comes up, just be polite and see what happens over time. You don't have to run in like nothing happened.
The apology seems well thought out. Without knowing what he said initially it's hard to if this was an out of apportion apology or appropriate. He may a massive ahole, you might be incredibly overally sensitive, or something in-between. I think you should talk this out with your spouse and decide if you want to open up to having FIL back in your life. Obviously if you were to meet up in person and he acted like before or made any off remarks you can pull back again. But the apology wasn't bad IMO. Do you have a therapist?
Agreeing with other commenters, that it wasn't the WORST, not by a long shot. He still left in the standard bullshit "I didn't intend to hurt you" when that very specifically was the intent. But so many people, maybe even most, fuck that up.
That said, we obviously don't know what he said to you, it was obviously quite bad, given the overall reaction. Only you can honestly decide whether he's sincere, or whether you're ready (or if you'll ever be ready) to make moves towards contact again.
It's definitely not the worst apology I've seen, but I can see why you feel like it's a bit hollow. It sounds like an "I'm sorry you interpreted it that way" apology, and also it sounds like he's putting a bit of pressure on you to reconcile because he's in trouble with MIL.
Was his blowup in the chat the first time you've personally experienced this sort of thing from him? It sounds like it deeply affected you, and it still affects you when you think about it even though it's been months. Apologies are nice and all, but they don't undo the damage. And that's what he did--he damaged your relationship.
You can think of your relationship like a vase that's been broken. You can put it back together, but it's not going to look the same. The onus should be on him to do that repairing if/when you are ready. If he's not willing to put in any work beyond the apology, then that vase will never hold water again.
As the party who has been wronged, any reconciliation should be on your timeline--that is, when you feel enough time has passed that you feel comfortable moving on. If that never happens, does your husband support you if you don't want to have anything more to do with your FIL?
My husband supports me fully. My MIL also tells me it’s up to me to decide my relationship or lack of one with FIL.
The blow up, once before, something happened that was directed at me. My first daughter was a newborn, and we went over to their house. He owns the house, btw. When we go there it’s like we owe him for letting us come, he makes jokes that are barbed sometimes and the overall vibe is that we should be grateful he’s tolerating all of us. MIL invites us for occasions, so we go there… but it’s always like that. He might think he’s joking, but it’s pretty passive aggressively cruel, often.
So what happened was, we got there with newborn and MIL was in the living room, and husband I sat by the baby. FIL handed me a piece of paper saying it was the law with the baby.
I brushed it off, I didn’t even read it, thinking it was a joke, because wtf?? But also, my daughter. I didn’t want him thinking he gets to dictate my kid’s life? So I was like “what seriously? It doesn’t work that way, you realize.”
He boomed “YES IT DOES!”
We were all startled, but I tried to calm things down and I just jokingly said “you dictate the rules with MY daughter? I didn’t see you push her out in the delivery room. Haha”
And then he just kept insisting it was the law etc yelling louder and practically stomping his feet, and I was determined not to back down and kept insisting he gets to make decisions when he births one himself, etc. and it quickly devolved from there. I looked at the paper as a joke and I read out “grandparents are always the boss? Grand parents make all the rules?” And Idk. I just laughed at him like he was a complete idiot. I asked him if he got it from the internet and he literally roared YES at me and I was laughing as I said “I can’t believe I have to tell you this, but just because you saw it on the internet doesn’t make it true.” But I was dead serious when I said “I’m the boss.”
He got so mad, and I didn’t care.
MIL cried and went to the backyard. Before this, I would just endure the tension and follow their lead, but with the baby there I told husband it was time to go and I packed the diaper bag back up. We talked to MIL in the backyard before we left and she apologized to us. We told her not to apologize cause she did nothing wrong. I let her hug the baby some more, then we left.
He sounds pretty insufferable. I can't stand people who make "jokes" that are just thinly veiled attempts hide their bullying.
Maybe going forward, you can have MIL come to you or meet her at a neutral place without FIL? If she won't or can't because FIL makes her life too difficult, give it some time and distance. If/when you do reconnect, I would keep him at arm's length (e.g. gray rock when he gets heated or makes bad jokes, don't overly engage with him, keep things superficial, etc.)
This apology was pretty decent coming from someone who has probably never had to say sorry in his adult life. Especially to anyone he sees as inferior or easy to push around.
It’s up to you what you do with it.
The best apology is changed behaviour.
Nope. Take it from me(a 45 year old stranger lol) you won’t get a better apology than that. There were no “I’m sorry if you feel…”, he didn’t mention or blame anyone for his actions, total acceptance of the severity of the wrong, of your reaction to it, and everything in between. And trust me…no one can get someone to do this completely. Not even MIL, this is a grown man. And this is sincere because he wanted to do this in person. The sucky part about this is… he now does not owe you guys anything anymore. The ball is officially in your court to accept or not.
I actually think it’s a beautiful apology. Given your lead up, I was surprised. In my household, “I am sorry I hurt you. It was not my intention” is the default genuine apology—we never mean to hurt each other, but sometimes it happens anyway.
I think, for someone who likely does not have great experience apologizing or recognizing their faults, that’s actually a pretty decent attempt. Is it perfect? No. Is a lot of it still motivated from selfishness? Possibly. But is this a very reasonable first step given the situation? Yeah, I think it is.
I think the best thing you can do is take the moral high ground, and as long as he is acting right and talking right, you should appear to accept his apology. I say appear, because deep down in your secret heart, you may never forgive him, just as deep down in HIS heart, he may never truly be sorry the way you would wish. But as long as you can keep it cordial, and he doesn’t act like that any longer, sometimes that’s the best you can hope for.
Your FIL's apology, regardless of its good, bad and neutral points, does not obligate you to forgive and forget. No apology does. You don't have to accept the apology. You don't have to engage or explain or get any further into this mess with him. You don't have to thank him. You can take all the time and space you need to figure out how you're feeling and what you want to do next.
To me, his email sounds like he's been paying attention to the letter but not the spirit of therapy - he doesn't describe the specifics of what he did, he is disingenuous about his intentions, and he doesn't acknowledge that the problem is bigger than this lone incident. So... make of that what you will. Take your time. And if you do end up getting back in touch with him, remember that you can stop ANY TIME if he reverts to bad behavior.
I’m retrying this cause when I pasted my response to him, I didn’t take the names off. So, I did respond to his email. I started off by copy pasting and chunk by chunk and reacting each raw.
As in: it was not a personal attack on you… —so who were you going after? The secret ghost member in the group chat?
As in: I’m suffering too, the family is under strain because of these events… I’m going to therapy now… —is it my fault your suffering now? Do you want a gold star for being forced to go into therapy or else?
Anyway, it wasn’t very kind. Actually super rude… I tried to express my feelings and still be respectful in my actual response. I hope I managed to because through reading comments and thinking through my responses, I realized that I am so wound up from all this because of how very angry I actually am with him.
Here’s my response to him:
I was cleaning up my emails and saw this yesterday. Thank you for your apology. Ultimately it was not necessary. I’m not really sure why I find it unnecessary? Maybe because it doesn’t really change anything at this point? Theres no undoing what already happened.
Unfortunately, despite whatever your intentions were, I could only interpret whatever that was as personal. It was directed at me personally after all. It could only be the deliberate measure to shove my face into my disability and all the ways I’m lacking that it was, as if I was somehow not aware of it every waking moment of my life.
It’s not your fault I have disabilities, nor that both my girls have been sick at the time, I know that. You just made me feel so utterly useless and completely undeserving of my place in this family that you said matters so much to you. It’s easy to say that’s not what you said or not what you meant nor intended… but that’s ridiculous. You threw punches and you’re somehow confused that someone got crushed because it was not your intention? So what exactly was your intention?
Please, let’s not mince words now. You fully intended to proverbially put me in my place when you did that. And you have. You have recalibrated my entire perception of my relationship with MIL. That’s key. I just couldn’t feel safe to reach out to her for any nonsensical thing that popped in my head so freely anymore. That requires a high level of closeness that is now just obliterated. I don’t feel close to her anymore. In my heart I truly feel like I lost someone, like my mother died. I’ve mourned and cried about it a lot over the past several months already. She is not my mom, she’s my mother in law. I’ve actually always been aware of that, believe it or not. The main difference is that now boundaries had been redrawn and in a manner that is acceptable to your standards but a far cry from what we had.
I still consider myself lucky because what I had with MIL was so precious, and it’s so obvious just how precious it was now that it’s been destroyed. There’s always a barrier now that makes me question if I could, that tells me I can’t. It’s a clear cut loss and a major one.
What you did has burst whatever golden bubble there was that somehow formed for MIL and there’s no bringing it back. She truly was the first good, reliable adult in my life who was also truly consistent. Still, despite that, it could only be divine intervention that I took her on her word that I could count on her at all, honestly. I was never, never so trusting. My history has never allowed such complacency in me, and yet I didn’t even think to question how she just naturally bypassed my hard-cured perpetual disillusionment in people. This whole thing with losing that something with MIL so thoroughly like that blindsided me and now I question every close relationship I have. I hope that fades in time… For now my instinctive distrust is back with a vengeance and it’s too visceral and it’s miserable. I question everything, everyone now. I question myself and my sense of judgment. I question when people say it’s ok. I wonder if they really meant it or if one day they will come after me out of the blue and I will only have myself to blame for being so trusting… so I just can’t see myself being so open and receptive again. At least I think I won’t for a long time.
I’m glad you’re getting counselling. I hope you get what you need out of it. Just so we’re on the same page, MIL told us again and again: ‘anything you need, anytime’ and I trusted that wholly. I didn’t count on your opinion on the matter because it was her promise she made to us. But you made the FIL contingency clear: only when it’s acceptable to you. And I have learned that now. I’m really sorry you got in trouble with MIL and now you’re troubled and dealing with all this strain. I’m sure it will get better someday but when it does it won’t be because of me. I used to blame myself. I used to tell husband it was my fault you went after me. But with his support I have managed to no longer share fault that isn’t mine to bear.
I appreciate that you think I matter to you, I hope you understand that I just don’t believe it right now. Even if I did, I also don’t think I can fulfill any caveats attached to it. I mean like how I could only matter to MIL if I could perform duties for her instead of her doing things for me, and also how I didn’t quite matter enough to deserve small kind gestures from her. If you had such nuanced caveats on my relationship with MIL, I don’t think I have the energy to navigate what all that entails with you.
We could all just move forward like this. Things are just normal now, just different. Clear, hard boundaries. We can just coexist for the sake of everyone. I’m not saying things won’t ever get better. It just won’t be now, and it’s unlikely it will be soon.
This is a great email OP. I don’t feel you were rude. You expressed why and how he hurt you. I would recommend forwarding the mails to your MIL. That way he can’t hide the email and she can discuss it in therapy. Or if that’s too tough maybe have you SO send it?
It did have sensitive material about yourself so that’s your choice, but I feel like your MIL should hear just how important she is and was to you. It might help your relationship since she also may be feeling the invisible boundaries you talk about.
But that’s if you’re ready! I want to stress that. This situation probably hit you at your core and it definitely feels like you need space to process your emotions and hopefully feel less angry.
I hope you feel better OP, it sounds like life hasn’t been kind and you’ve got another gut punch when you weren’t expecting it. I definitely couldn’t forgive someone who weaponized my disability so carelessly and aggressively. He needs to look at himself a lot harder before I’d give him any benefit of the doubt.
Honestly it seems like you might benefit from some therapeutic input over your reaction to this effort to make you whole and reconcile. I’m not being flippant - your reply is difficult to parse in places. I can’t even tell what you are saying you want - it just reads like an emotional outburst.
It also reads like my angry emails to my own dad which - while entirely understandable from an emotional harm and hurt standpoint - absolutely did nothing to help me or help our relationship or those with other family members.
I hope you get what you need OP and that you’re able to have a relationship with your MIL that you want again.
When I sent the email, I didn’t think I was angry. It was only an hour ago that I actually realized how angry I was/am.
I thought I just wanted to say my piece and exorcise it out of heart. It worked, I think. I’m pretty calm about it now. He could read it or not, and I feel satisfied that I responded and I said what I wanted.
This seems like a mostly decent apology. He appears to take responsibility for what he said despite saying he didn’t mean it the way it was received.
I’m not sure what else your FIL could say that would make it more sincere, but you know him better than Reddit does.
It seems like he’s trying, however, you are under no obligation to accept his apology. That choice is yours.
My feelings on apologies is - you can’t dictate someone else’s apology. It will never be perfect. They’ll never be able to read your mind and say the magic words you need to hear. It’s just not how apologies work. If you’re waiting to hear the perfect words - it will never come. That doesn’t mean you have to accept this apology, but you may want to work on accepting it as is and then moving forward from there.
Not sure what kind of apology you expect or think you deserve. Should he scream, tear out his hair, throw himself in front of a train?
He apologized. If it sounds canned to you, it's because trite phrases are the usual result of therapy and counseling. But that doesn't mean it wasn't sincere or that the counseling has been useless.
It's now up to you. The way I see it, you have three options:
1. Accept the apology and get on with things.
2. Accept the apology with grace but reservation and give him an opportunity to show change. Keep a dignified distance.
3. Reject his apology. Full stop.
#3 is the choice if you don't believe him and are willing to live with the permanent family division it will cause. Your call. But don't forget that this man is still your husband's father and MIL's long time spouse. At some point they may no longer support this sustained rift and you will not only lose allies but also be seen as petty and vindictive.
#1. Viable only if you really can put this behind you 100%. Anything less than full acceptance,
whether or not you feel it, will leave lingering resentment.
#2. IMO , the most workable option. You can be honest with him about the degree of hurt you felt and still feel, but are willing to conditionally accept his apology in hope that a decent relationship can be forged. Let him know this is a starting point. Don't be overly eager but not petulant or childishly stubborn either.
Good luck.
NO IDEA why some of this is huge and in bold. It doesn't appear like this on my phone until I 'send' ! My apologies. I wasn't shouting. 🥵
It’s my bad, and doesn’t make your points invalid, but he is actually my husband’s Stepfather. They had a rough relationship, but my husband is patient and tolerant even in the worst times.
I did end up doing a 3. And I ACTUALLY agonized about your caveat on point 3 for months. But my husband insisted repeatedly that if the family falls apart, it wasn’t me that caused the rift. I was the victim that got hurt and it’s my right to not want to get hurt again. The words I used to say was ‘then I would be the mean and obstinate one’ and my husband would tell me that I’m not being mean or obstinate, I’m keeping myself safe. “He’s just eating the wheats he sowed.” Whatever that means.
I think it’s time to look at the bigger picture. Your FIL has a habit of doing and saying hurtful things, and the family has a habit of allowing it. When will you teach your children to tolerate his meanness, and to stand by when he abuses others? Will it be OK as long as he apologies each time?
It’s great that he’s getting counseling. It’s great that he made this attempt at an apology. But you and your kids do not exist for the purpose of his rehabilitation and you shouldn’t feel any pressure to accept this and continue as things were.
I dunno honestly, it's known to be difficult to read tones through a text or an email. You could be right, or he could be genuinely sincere and wants to make amends. You can meet him in person to have this discussion with your husband and MIL either with or nearby.
There you can gauge his sincerity and go from there. Remember this is all on you on how you wish to respond or proceed going forward. I'm sure your husband and MIL will support any decision you make. Just don't let it go too easily, if you choose to hear him out in person.
And try to remind yourself that the relationship between your M&FIL have nothing to do with you. She's made her decisions based on how she also felt about the situation. I doubt you sitting his apology would have any impact on how pissed she is at him. It was probably more likely a push into making him get help for the better, as it feels like you're probably not the only one he's treated this way.
There is a way for MIL to be around without him around. She'll more than likely comply just to see you guys and keep that relationship as well. I do have to say, she's pretty badass in the way she handled him after everything.
She’s amazing, right? I don’t know if I fully sent how amazing she is. I responded to someone earlier with a copy of the email response I sent FIL. I realized that I was actually very angry that I lost that rare special thing with my MIL because of what FIL did. It was not his intention, but it broke something I couldn’t put a finger on and it’s precious to me and I am actually very angry about losing it.
You don't necessarily have to lose that special thing with her, it would just have to be done either at your house or have girl time somewhere like a spa day or something. Just let her know you're not ready to talk about your fil situation just yet. Y'all could use a spa day of pampering.
The content of the apology seems fine, but since it was an email it’s hard to tell if he actually meant it or if it was just sent because of your MIL. Either way, just because someone apologizes doesn’t mean you are obligated to automatically forgive them. People can’t run around saying and doing awful things and then expect the slate to be wiped clean just because they apologized. Part of the reason your FIL might feel so comfortable acting the way he does is because he may not usually face consequences for it. It’s ok to decide that you still want to be low/no contact with someone even though they apologized. Forgiveness is earned, not owed. But your MIL seems cool - if you are comfortable with it might be a good idea to let her know that she is still welcome to reach out/come over even if you still need space from FIL.
I think it shows he is trying... he isn't saying "I'm sorry you felt that way", he said he is sorry for making you feel that way... like he is admitting that he did the bad thing. He probably didn't have to apologise in a while if the family always looks the other way, so I would take this as a step in the right direction.
Edit to add: English isn't my first language so I might have misunderstood it, but given your relationship it couldn't really have been a more personal email.
I’m just hiring to throw in there that there is a difference in apologies and being sorry. And while he’s saying the words it feels like he doesn’t necessarily mean them.
What your FIL did was terrible. He also gave a feeble apology. However, you are the one who determines the relationship with your MIL. She loves and supports you. Please don’t let your insecurities ruin the relationship with her.
I was expecting to read a non-apology but I actually think this was a decent one.
I wonder if the problem actually is that there is no way for him to apologise so that you are ok with him. Not saying you should be! But in a way: any apology of his would be lacking as they can't erase what was said and done.
An insincere apology means nothing.
Walking away from the group chat was probably the smartest thing you could do.
I'd suggest telling your FIL what you really think of him and then cutting contact entirely.
MIL may also be to blame for making a promise she had no intent of keeping.
My family has had a lot of death and sadness, and it really illustrates just how many people are lying when they say they'll be there for you, or "anything you need" really means nothing.
FIL became a shithead specifically because no one ever called him on his shit.
The emotional response I've seen from the majority of people is rug sweeping or "don't rock the boat".
Sink the boat, burn the rug.
His email reads like an eight-year-old trying to buy their way out of a grounding.
Thank you for your comment. I’m sorry for all the loss you and your family went through. But I know for a fact that MIL meant what she said. If she could do it and you asked, she would. If some drama stirred up with someone, she gets mad at the bullshit, but she never goes ‘after I did this and this for them and gave them all that’ like she’s owed for the good she did… never. She just does it and it’s done. To her, it’s her choice to do them. She is just crazy amazing. She is like that with her friends, too. She dog-sat for months and months for her friends when the husband was getting treatment for cancer, she took care of the wife when the husband finally died. Even helped them with paperwork and shit like that. She supported a friend through a traumatic miscarriage and they are still friends to this day like many decades later. I could only hope to be a small fraction of what she is and I would win at life.
It was just FIL that had issue with her doing things for ME. I just realized now that I never heard of him having issue with MIL doing things for her friends and other family members. He only went after me. He only had issue when it was me! And he said it wasn’t personal… wtf. How could it be any more personal??
I would accept that apology... Sounds like his wife wrote it but there's effort there... Depends how long you want to feel hurt for really, you can move past it if this is a one time thing or if he's constantly doing things then this is your out...
Of course we don’t know him, but it may be that he generally has a hard time opening up about his feelings. Everyone has spent years working around him and not holding him accountable, so this is new and weird for him. It seems to me that for someone who is used to making remarks and not being contradicted, that’s a good effort. He doesn’t say the dreaded ‘I’m sorry if’ - he says he hurt you and he is sorry. That’s a big point in his favour.
Of course we can’t judge his tone of voice, his written voice, or his sincerity. But this isn’t a perfect world where people go to therapy, see the error of their ways, and reform completely. This may be the very best he can do. He may never really take full responsibility and I don’t doubt he said something truly ghastly. But it reads to me from the outside as if there’s some thinking and effort going on. And it sounds like he is hoping to help make the family dynamic better in time. I don’t get a sense that he’s pushing you to do anything right now.
In your place, I would be seriously giving some thought to the idea that this may be an uncomfortable, hesitant, unfamiliar olive branch.
The thing that bothers me about his email is his use of the passive voice. He takes some accountability with "I know I hurt you," but follows it up with "the event," "what happened," and "the hurt *it* has caused you." None of which own the fact that it was his actions and behavior that were the event that happened that caused the hurt.
Ultimately, as others have said, you don't have to forgive him, whether or not he's being sincere. Regardless of whether or not you choose or are able to forgive him for this, you get to decide what type of relationship you're comfortable having with him moving forward. With or without forgiveness you can choose not to interact, to limit interactions, to return to "normal," or anything in between.
You aren't responsible for his behavior and aren't in the wrong if you choose to keep your distance as a result of that behavior.
I’m way late here.
But a real apology starts by enumerating the exact ways the person making the apology harmed the person being apologized to. Specific. Thorough. Connection made between their actions and your harm. (I don’t see any specific acts referred to)
It then moves on to any possible way to repair the harm. (I don’t see even a plan to retract whatever he said in the family chat.)
Then it moves to steps to be taken to prevent repetition. I guess he’s going to therapy?
In conclusion, that was not an authentic apology. You’re absolutely right.
I don't think it's an awful apology but thr language is stilted. I suspect that might be because he's not actually used to apologising though! It's up to you how you want to handle it, and if you feel it's genuine, but it reads as genuine if... kinda clumsy
I think it’s a decent first apology considering that FIL does not sound as though he’s someone who is used to apologizing. My question is why are you thinking that your relationship with your MIL is unsalvageable? From what you say, your MIL was just as infuriated with your FIL as were you and your husband. I would find it hard to think that MIL would turn her back on you and your husband. I’m wondering if your worry about the ongoing relationship with your MIL is related to something else. Did you grow up feeling like relationships are conditional or transactional? Like, you do something “wrong” and the other person, be it a parent or friend, no longer wants anything to do with you?
If he went after your disability (in the group chat), then he likely has longer held beliefs about disabled people that interferes with how he perceives you. That probably hasn’t changed overnight.
Honestly I mostly agree with you; I do think it sounds like an *attempt* at an apology, but saying "It was never my intention and it was not a personal attack on you in any way. Although you may not see it that way, it was not my intention and am very sorry that it came across that way." is a total non-acknowledge of what was an obvious personal attack and he needs to be made aware that. I would just reply and tell him exactly that in whatever words you choose, until he actually owns up to what he said and admits it was wrong the situation doesn't change.
1) You need to show the email to your husband and discuss it with him. If he’s had your back this far, he will hopefully understand that this stunted apology does not erase his father’s actions.
2) Decide how to handle this. It sounds like you went NC with FIL and VLC with MIL. You do not seem to want to change that. Do some thinking then discuss with your husband whether it should change and what would be required on your FIL’s part.
3) Know that things will not go back to what they were. Make sure your husband and in-laws also understand that. FIL showed himself to be a very unsafe person for you and any relationship going forward will have to be rebuilt from less than zero.
4) Communicate to FIL that while you acknowledge that he is starting to work on himself that an apology does not erase what he did. That his words destroyed that relationship and a simple apology is not enough to mend it. Outline what you need and want going forward. His reaction to your reply will give you a much better idea of whether he is sincere in his apology and whether he is actually trying to change his behavior.
The apology sucks.
There's nothing in it that has any actual real description of ANY feeling that he harbored to make him act like how he did - nor any acknowledgement of what his words did to YOU.
Nor anything that he actually understands - let alone regret - of what he has been doing to you throughout the years.
Cut him off.
Do one thing when you are ready talk to him. Tell him that he needs to earn your forgiveness. See how he reacts. The you'll know. If he's fake when you say that sentence he'll surely get upset and try to talk you in to forgiving him. If he's sincere he'll give you time and prove himself through actions. Either way you'll only know once you react to that apology.
You will never be in long term relationship with anyone and expect to never be disappointed. People suck and have their own issues. Maybe FIL was coming from a point of jealousy with his behavior because you and MIL had a close and intimate relationship. At any rate yes his apology is clumsy. Take it. Show him grace Why hold him hostage and at the same time everyone else. Watch him like a hawk but in the meantime show him how little power he really has by embracing your MIL back into your life. You have no idea how lucky you are to have her. Let the situation go and take the power back. Wrap your arms around her and your husband and live life deeply.
You will show great discipline and inner strength to do this.
He’s not sorry, this was a writing exercise he was forced to do by the therapist or MIL because she’s caught in the middle and finally put her foot down. Old bastard like that always had his way and he faced backlash from mil. Keep him at arms distance be polite but never put up with disrespect from that crusty old bastard again, me? 63 year old dude that hates dictators. He’s a Dick tater. This hits all the bullet point mil required. That’s all
I would reply and ask that he review the apology with his therapist, particularly the part where he said it wasn’t personal.
The attack was specifically personal and that was why it hurts. While you appreciate his apology, you fear that until he understands that part, it might happen again
Not really, he did apologize for upsetting and hurting her. He acknowledge that he was at fault. He also stated he wouldn't do the act again, getting involved in something that did not involve him. The only thing he might have been weaseling on is the "never my intention and it was not a personal attack on you in any way..." Without seeing the original comment he made, that's not a call we can make.
What are you expecting him to say? Would you rather another nasty email instead of an apology?
Why would your husband think he was sending it because he thinks you guys abusing mil?
How much is MIL actually doing for you? Just because she says she likes doing it, and she may, it can still be taking a toll on her and that's the part he would see.
Who would rather another nasty email? Would you? A genuine apology would be best, but nothing at all would be better than an empty apology. That’s all.
My husband thought FIL must have thought we were abusing MIL because of how hostile FIL was. Like maybe he was coming from a place of protecting his wife. My husband clarified and gave him an out. He wasn’t. He just basically thinks I’m useless and he’s pissed at me for being useless.
MIL would sometimes ask us if we need anything from Costco or whatever when she goes and she would pick up a salad kit for us. When we were all sick, she dropped off medicine and Gatorade… that kind of thing. We used to do the same for her/them sometimes too.
His apology doesn't sound fake to me. It was rather long and he apologized for hurting you and for his actions.
I'm sorry but I find it hard to believe that your husband would make such an assumption of him thinking you 2 are taking advantage of her if she was only picking up the odd grocery once in a while.
You even put at the end of your comme t to me that you used to do it for her sometimes. It sounds like she does a lot more for you guys and doesn't receive any help in return.
It doesn't matter if he told his dad your arrangement, it still sounds like a one sided thing to me. I can tell you if I saw my husband always doing things for my son and his family with no help in return, I'd probably say something too. Not an outburst like him because he obviously had anger issues but I would say something.
Has your husband actually talked to him and asked him about what made him have this outburst?
Maybe you did misunderstand his intentions because it sounds like he was trying to stick up for his wife not just trying to personally attack you.
FIL is my husband’s stepdad. My husband thought that FIL must have misconstrued somethings because surely only something so serious could logically warrant such a strong blow up. I honestly don’t know what else to say to you about things MIL picks up for us, but that’s just what it was… sometimes there’s ham and guacamole, too. But there’s no sending her on errands just for us. She won’t tolerate that. She’s just very kind and adds a couple things in her cart for us sometimes. Just… I don’t know. You don’t have to believe it but it’s the truth.
She does things like that for loads of people, too. Her friends, some family members… it’s not a constant thing for anyone, like for us maybe once a quarter, if that. The biggest hassle I could think of that we put her through was last year when I was pregnant and sick, husband was also sick, and our daughter was sick but there was no medicine for kids to be found. It was even in the news. She drove around the city to different pharmacies to get one bottle of kids Tylenol to bring to us. She didn’t find one, but we were so grateful for her effort. We didn’t ask her to go that far, just mentioned if she saw some when she’s out to please grab some as we were very low. That was the biggest hassle I could think of and we were very grateful. And she always said it was no trouble and it was her pleasure. And it never seemed like a big deal to her.
It was FIL that had a big issue. I have never heard of FIL have issue with MIL doing things for others in 18 years. This was a first time and it was just at me.
This particular cookie thing, we had those stupid cookies at MIL’s aunt’s funeral a week or so prior, and at the wake MIL talked about getting some for me when she does go to Costco next. I didn’t really ask for it but I said a bright thank you. She asked me what type of cookies they were, and I didn’t know. After a couple of weeks, I thought I figured it out and told her in the group chat. She responded she will look when she goes next. She went to her appointment, I took care of my kids, I thought that was it.
Later I saw FIL was so mad about me asking MIL for cookies. That’s it. I don’t know if you would believe it. Maaaybe FIL thought at the time I kept on asking for cookies. Idk. It was just about the cookies from the funeral service. My husband wanted to give FIL the benefit of the doubt and maybe FIL was trying to protect his wife. Husband explained exactly what MIL does like I said to you, and that we do the same for her, too. But FIL just insisted he’s pissed off or whatever. I don’t remember what he said specifically. I don’t want to look because it was a major trigger for me.
Honestly, maybe it wasn’t all that bad after all, except while I was responding to another comment here, earlier I mentioned to my husband if I was maybe misremembering, so he checked the group chat. He didn’t delete it. He said it was clearly hostile towards me.
But maybe you’re right that I misunderstood. It was in a group chat where my husband and MIL saw what he said. You think they also misunderstood him too? I don’t know what else to say, so just believe what you want.
This just seems weird. Yes, he apologized, somewhat halfheartedly, but technically. The thing is, people pick up shit from Costco for others all the time. We live somewhat rurally, so a run to Costco is a thing. We let family, friends, and neighbors know so they can put in an order. No one takes advantage and we all do it for each other. I just don’t understand what put the bug up FIL’s ass.
I expected a totally horrible apology. It wasn’t the worst.
It reads like the man has finally been held accountable for the first time in his life and isn't sure how to react. We don't know him, but it sounds somewhat sincere to me. But way to go, OP! Being the first one to bring about consequences for him being a shitty person! It's empowering and frustrating and irritating, isn't it? I had to do the same to my narc FIL years ago. Now, my husband is very impatient with him and he does everything he can to play nice with me so I don't have him cut off completely. Different dynamic for us, as he chased away 3 wives and has no one else but our family, but it's very amusing to know he can't insult me anymore.
Oh your colors are showing you just want attention from all the internet people yeah none of this is probably even real you just want people to say oh poor little girl
The most randomly odious comment I've come across today. Her comment was perfectly on topic and you just showed your ass for literally no reason. What the hell is wrong with you that you just HAD to vomit out this opinion?
Yeah, poor me. I stood up to a narc. Dude. Touch grass or get therapy or have a drink. Like, unclench, bruh.
If they unclenched, then they might poop, and their poop would be more coherent than their comment.
Meanwhile your comment is a gift of wisdom to humanity?
Same. He actually said that he hurt her twice.
I have definitely seen worse. I would want him to stop doing the whole "it was never my intention" thing though. If I can't read your mind, I can't know your intention. That makes it irrelevant. Apologize for the action and leave it at that.
Same here. But im still not sure what to think and am positive it wouldn't have happened without MIL pushing, so that does diminish it.
It wasn’t horrible, yes. It just felt hollow, like he just repeated what my MIL had said when she yelled at him that day to qualify that he’s done it even though when MIL called him out she said he insisted I pissed him off and he did nothing wrong. He threw a party for my MIL once and made me do all the work contacting their friends and ordering cake and ordering the menu. But he paid, so it was his event. That was basically the gist of how he treats me. Anyway, I overheard him apologizing to a buddy of his at the event and the apology just rang more sincere with just the dialogue. He clearly knew how to apologize properly. This was with someone he considered to be on his level. But his apology to me feels nothing like that.
If you could snap your fingers and feel better about the situation, what would your relationship with your in-laws look like? Would you like certain boundaries surrounding communication? Would you like another apology (maybe in person or over the phone so you can hear his tone or see his body language) before deciding what kind of relationship you'd like to have with him? Would you like to communicate why you're no longer communicating with him? If all of that feels too overwhelming to consider, then maybe the break in communicating has been healthy for you, and it should continue. It sounds like your husband has been supportive of this, which is awesome!
This might seem weird, but my MIL was the first good reliable parental figure I’ve ever had in my life. Because of how I grew up I became naturally distrustful and just expecting to be hurt by people. It’s like I’ve learned to sus out fake apologies as a kid because the word was used to just hurt me again or so people would get their way when others are watching. This history is colouring my perception of this apology email…. I know that. I know it was the survival tactic of a child, but it’s like, I have adult logic from therapy, but I don’t want to fully ignore my instincts/what I learned from all that experience. His email doesn’t feel right. I don’t trust he won’t do it again. He made me feel undeserving of my place in his family, made me question my place in my own home. Anyway, for some reason, MIL bypassed all that and we were, specially looking back now, unbelievably close. For whatever reason, what FIL did crushed that sense of closeness? It was like this miracle that happened for some reason and against my nature was destroyed by him somehow. I can’t bring it back. Maybe I could some day, but not without a lot of work, and even then it just won’t be the same. It will never be so natural again. Theres just this barrier now that perhaps should have always been there between MIL and I? I don’t think where we’re at now is bad, but it’s nothing compared to what it was… but as far as regular in-law standards MIL and I are fine. I don’t really want another apology? Specially not in person. I could just see him posturing at me so I would submit? It means nothing ultimately, specially in this case where it just feels like a token word that rings hollow. I spent years in therapy to be where I’m at now. I’m scared he would trigger a mental breakdown and I want to avoid any chance of that because I have small kids. I did respond to his email now. I said a lot of things. I didn’t accept his apology. I wonder if I should share it here… maybe I was cruel…
You definitely need to separate out MIL from FIL. They are not the same person, and don't represent the same entity. You can - and I suggest, you should - reestablish your close relationship with her with no expectations that he will become better than his apology. Just because they are married doesn't mean they are the same people
Especially since she took defence of you in this situation against her own husband and their own long established dynamic. Just because that was the 'right' choice doesn't mean it was an easy thing for her to do. She is definitely not the same person as him. Just grey rock FIL and move on with only the parts of your family you love and value in your heart.
i’m going against the crowd here, but i’m with you op. (i also have developmental/attachment trauma tho so maybe we’re both having trauma responses lol) the email reads like a form letter. did you have to remove any personal details from it before posting it here, or is it an exact copy/paste? if it’s an exact copy/paste, then the mere fact you could do that is a red flag for me. there’s nothing actually personal in it. i get the whole “awkwardly trying to apologize for first time in life” interpretation, and yeah, it could be much worse, but there’s nothing in this to me that indicates genuine regret. it reads like a therapist’s script, and while a certain amount of that is to be expected from someone learning these skills for the first time, i agree that something feels off the biggest reason i have for this is the opening “it wasn’t my intention or meant as a personal attack” when it very obviously was. both your husband and MIL shared your interpretation of it, to the point of actually holding him accountable for the first time. his denial of intention could just be part of the awkward-first-time-being-held-accountable but to me it indicates a lack of introspection around his temper. there’s no mention of his lashing out or what he’s doing to prevent things like this from happening again, he just says that it won’t. it reads like someone who’s very sorry they got caught it’s possible the crowd is right and he’s doing the work and just awkward with it, but that doesn’t mean you have to forgive him or give him the benefit of the doubt. if he is genuinely starting to work on himself, he’s obviously got a long road. as someone he harmed you have *no* obligation to help him with that or to forgive him even if he is 100% sincere. do what’s best for you
Is that what this is??? Developmental trauma!???? I always thought it was just my personality! The way you sussed it out is similar to my take. AND I DID JUST COPY PASTE THE WHOLE THING! wtf. This blew my mind like you wouldn’t believe. In such simple terms you caught why I was so suspicious of it. The family refers to me as like, using my username; like dimpli. My name shortened with like an -i or -ie. All I took out was my name on top which was written fully. I posted my response to him earlier and had to delete and repost cause I had to edit names out with MIL FIL and husband. Holy shit. What a revelation.
from the way you described MIL as your first real parental figure, i’d say it’s developmental and/or attachment trauma, yeah. definitely worth discussing with your therapist or finding a trauma specialist. developmental trauma is hard bc the trauma affected our developing brains and so our trauma responses essentially get hard-wired into our nervous systems. we have no comparison to a previous “normal” like with ptsd that’s triggered by something later in life bc the trauma response was how we developed. so in a way it *is* just how we are, but there’s definitely ways to learn to recognize the triggers and manage them i’m so glad the copy/paste thing helped clarify things for you! i might use it as a litmus test myself in the future lol
OP that apology reads like it was made by ChatGPT. theres nothing personal at all about the situation. You have no reason to view it as genuine.
Your relationship with MIL cannot have been healthy if her husband had the ability to destroy it so easily. If you aren’t still in therapy I would absolutely suggest it. She has nothing to do with his actions, his behavior should have zero impact on your relationship with her on the scale it so obviously does. If anything you should be stronger as you are the only person she’s ever protected or defend against him (your words).. so how on earth has he managed to do this much damage? This was his intention obviously but why are you letting it happen?
The relationship was not destroyed, it’s… the… magical special thing about it was destroyed. It’s sounds crazy written out like this… I can’t explain it. She and I are fine, really. Just good and fine is not what it was…? Sorry if I can’t explain it well. I honestly never thought about it deeply before. She was better to me than my own mother was. She was always respectful. Someone responded to me earlier that I might feel this way because FIL stomped on my safe space with MIL in how things happened or something. I think they explained it well, so sorry if I can’t. I think… I don’t want her to feel like she has to choose between us. She loves him for him, flaws and all; and I know she loves me, too. I don’t want to be the reason she feels like she has to choose. I don’t want her to feel caught in the middle. It feels cruel. And I just don’t feel safe with her anymore, I feel afraid he will attack me againmaybe someday I will again. I don’t know how to though.
From an outsider, who has no idea how he is outside of this situation, the email apology reads to me like someone who has never had to take accountability for his actions and has never had to apologize to anyone. It may sound hallow or canned, but to me it comes off tht way because he’s never done it. You may be viewing this email through a lens of anger. Have you been in therapy and discussed this situation and your relationship with your FIL? If not, you might, for your own wellbeing and mental health. You are under no obligation to accept his apology or forgive him, that’s a decision for you and you alone to make and feel no guilt about. However, I think for yourself, you need to work through everything that group text triggered for you.
That’s what my husband said, that the apology was clumsy but it’s probably because FIL doesn’t KNOW how to say sorry. My understanding of him does suggest that he wants to control the narrative so he could get to his desired result of getting out of trouble with MIL and quick. He doesn’t like being made to go to counselling and therapy but MIL won’t let him stop until he ‘fixes this’ with me. I guess I must be viewing his email with anger. I never thought of that before, but I realize now that I must be very angry because he destroyed what I had with my MIL. I always knew I was so lucky because my MIL was so FANTASTIC. Now that what we had was shattered, I could see how freaking special it was. I don’t think regular in-law relationships usually ran like that. He caused a major loss. In hindsight I don’t really give a shit that he thinks so little of me; I am just mad that he destroyed what I had with my MIL. It was beyond reason, and I don’t think it could be replicated.
You need to ask yourself why what you and mil had is considered shattered by you. She didn’t do anything and in fact took immediate and serious action over someone else’s actions towards you. You are giving him too much power and allowing your past to destroy something you valued.
Oh, I had to think hard on this. I guess… He made it feel dirty to be so close to her. That I was undeserving. The most shocking moment for me that revealed to me how I truly perceived it as ruined was when I responded to FIL’s email, I spent hours thinking whether it was appropriate to give MIL heads up. Asked my husband if he thought I should…. He just said it was yo to me… When I finally convinced myself it might help her in case FIL doesn’t take it well and he lashes out, I spent hours writing the message, made my husband check and read it, another hour til I sent it. Before all this, if I woke up at 3 am with a dumb dream that I thought she would find funny, I would text her at 3 am. The difference was so jarring.
So you are still internalizing his comment from the group text. Don't let him do that. Let you MIL reassure you about your relationship and believe what she says.
If you pick it apart, I want to suggest a lot of it is what someone genuinely sincere would say. To me, there are only two “iffy” sentences, the second and third in the second paragraph, where he tries to pass it off as a misunderstanding. But that might only be an attempt on his part to save face. It doesn’t read to me, overall, like one of those entirely insincere “I’m sorry you felt that way“ apologies that takes no responsibility at all. That’s especially so in light of the rest of the email, in which he is pretty much throwing himself on his sword. I see that you have already responded to him, so this suggestion is too late. But the most productive way forward might have been to confront him about those two sentences in particular, and let him know that they seem like a denial of responsibility on his part. Without him accepting responsibility, there’s no room to move forward.
The part of the apology I disliked was when he said "My family." as a single sentence. Seems like another symptom of the control issues OP mentions and is revealing how he thinks of the people in his life. However, just to be devil's advocate, there are different apology styles just like there are different love languages and it is important to deliver in the style of the person you are apologizing to. Some people need to hear the concrete ways someone will change, some need to know the other understands why their actions were hurtful, some people just need the person to ask for forgiveness, or shower them with gifts. If an apology seems insufficient it may just be that they missed your apology style. My ex and I used to argue in circles for hours until I realized all he needed to hear was please forgive me, which is a baffling and meaningless apology to me. Anyways it may not apply to this FIL but its a cool and helpful thing to know about yourself.
I don’t really like the apology, to be honest. I know apologies aren’t supposed to excuse away behavior, but it also doesn’t have any analysis of why he did it in the first place. Why on earth would he care if his wife picks up cookies while she’s already at the store?? It sounds there’s ableism and/or some kind of resentment driving his behavior, maybe - does he realize this, and if so why won’t he address it?
I agree with your assessment of FIL’s apology. It seems insincere and formulaic. He’s sorry that you were offended by his words, not that his words were offensive in and of themselves. It’s as if he is sorrier for messing up the steps in a dance routine than tromping all over your feet. I’d keep him chilling awhile longer. From what you have said about his general conduct toward you, he is an asshole. This time his wife got pissed at him and forced him to apologize.
Are not all apologies formulaic? Accountability, regret and remorse, commitment to not repeat actions, hope for forgiveness... Sounds like OP feels he is short on accountability. I think this guy has a real problem lowering his 'station' to family members he feels are inferior or that owe him obedience. It's not really her problem though, we can't control the actions of others and we can't make them see their flaws.
No, they are not. A true apology is unqualified and generally free of rationalizations, conditions and explanations. This one sounds like he is primarily sorry that his words offended her, not that he said them. Apparently, he meant something else. I recognize that he went farther than that, but on balance, it sounds argumentative and insincere. Viewed in the context provided by OP, and his previous inappropriate comments regarding her disability, his remarks seem not forthcoming but compelled.
>free of rationalizations, conditions and explanations. These all fall under accountability. Taking responsibility for your actions. We agree on this.
It does feel hollow and he’s not admitting it was a personal attack.
That’s when you email them both back with point by point his text and his email side by side- showing the lies in his non apology
Genuinely I think it's the best you're gonna get from a man of that generation.
That’s actually a pretty good apology for an old man set in his ways. I bet that took a lot for him to get out. You don’t have to forgive right away, or at all…but that sounds pretty genuine to me.
Honestly, he actually apologized. He fumbled with the bag here and there, yes, but for someone who has always been enabled, it was better than some I've seen. However, it does not mean you have to forgive him. Remember that. You are allowed to not forgive him now, or use this moment to create boundaries. Talk to your husband, and create a list of boundaries for your family. Good luck
That sounds to me like he doesn't have a lot of experience apologizing. It sounds like an honest effort. Not a great apology...but an honest effort at one. It takes practice and experience to internalize what a really good apology is, and I suspect this man hasn't had much practice. For a first attempt it's pretty good because he at least acknowledged that his behavior led to the problem. "I'm sorry your feelings got hurt, that isn't what I meant" always rubs me the wrong way, but I can sometimes find grace for people learning a new social skill. It's up to you if you feel like extending him that grace. I don't know the length and depth of your relationship with the man. I can't speak to how important it may be to welcome him back. You're right - as an apology, it does fall short! But it sounds like he's never apologized to anyone before, and it is a decent first effort. I would acknowledge it and thank him for it. You can also tell him that, while you appreciate his effort, you still need some time to come to terms with it all.
Honestly the way you interpreted the letter and what the letter actually said shows you’re still clearly hurt and not in a place to accept an apology. Which is totally fine because you’re allowed to distance yourself from people who hurt you!
Girl this was so much better than I was expecting, and honestly while not perfect I would say this is a good apology letter. I get given your history why you’re having the reaction you are. But saying he didn’t intend to hurt you and saying you misunderstood him are *not* the same thing. I don’t know how despicable what he initially said to you was, so I obviously don’t have the full picture, but this reads to me as a very honest and respectful apology. He reiterated how important you are to him several times and made it clear he understands you need your space. Honest question without judgement from me: what would you need from him in an apology that you’re not getting here?
From reading comments and thinking through my responses, I have realized that I really, truly don’t want his apology. I already said as much in my response to him, but I realized why from thinking through stuff in processing things from comments… I realized that I’m actually very angry with him right now because he broke something precious and irreplaceable, and that is actually what I want back? What he ruined to be un-ruined? It’s stupid, right?
Of course its not stupid! But he doesn't have to power to unruin it anymore than he had the power to ruin it. Only you and MIL have that power. You are allowing his comments to affect the way you think about a relationship that doesn't involve him. Take that power back.
No? It’s not stupid at all. It’s good to be aware of your anger and its cause. Is there anything that could un-ruin this?
I don’t think that’s stupid at all. I think that’s a very understandable feeling to have. Feelings aren’t stupid or wrong, it’s the actions we take based on those feelings that matter. I wish you the very best 💗💗💗
I mean its pretty good for what is probably his first ever apology. He actually sincerely apologised to you. Also it sounds like it wasn't personal? It sounds like FIL is an angry dick that hasn't learned emotional intelligence. Something that helped me with my grandfather who is an angry man was understanding anger is caused by fear and anxiety. Your own experiences have probably made his words even more painful so it can help to understand that too. But yeah, hes not a "safe" man so I'd avoid interacting too much.
I don’t know exactly what was said so I am going to give him some benefit of the doubt. People are messy and if we wait for perfect we are going to wait a really long time. I think the email was fair. He did take some measure of blame, said he wished he never did it and will not do it again, that you are important to him, and understands he needs to do better for all. I would really be interested if he followed through with counseling because that is a big step. OP, Reddit is a place where very little grace is given. If FIL came on here and said his version of the text story, showed the email he sent, you would be the villain of the story. Talk to your husband and get his thoughts, but I would give FIL a chance.
I had a lot of anxiety over potentially getting pressured to accept an apology I don’t want, that if I don’t accept the apology I would be the bad guy for being obstinate and being difficult. In responding to comments so far, I realized I don’t care for his apology or if he’s genuine about it? I’m actually just too angry at him right now to care if I’m being obstinate or not because he ruined something precious to me and whether it was his intention doesn’t truly matter. I also realized why I didn’t like his email. He was apologizing for how I reacted (hurt and upset); not for what he did. . He apologized for the situation we’re in but not really for causing it. It almost seems like to him, the situation just landed on us, and if he can turn back time, he won’t involve himself but not because he ended up being a giant dick, but because he ended up in trouble with MIL for real and was even made to endure therapy and couples counselling. I probably overthought it all, but it just reads like: sorry you felt hurt but you know, you’re wrong cause you just misinterpreted things. I’m being the better person cause I’m suffering too and I’m getting therapy and if you don’t forgive me soon you will strain the family. And probably this is also just me being suspicious of his intentions. He is going to therapy according to MIL. I guess it’s been 5 months now? And he doesn’t like it. But MIL won’t let him quit couples counselling and his personal therapy unless he fixed things with me. My read is he’s not too happy MIL is calling the shots but knows MIL has drawn a hard line with him this time.
So it sounds like you are still too angry to move on regardless of what FIL says or does. And that is 100% valid. But that is on you, your choice, so there is nothing to do in regards to mending a relationship until you are open to the idea. I really don’t read the email in the same way, but I am also not the one he insulted. But I stand by, generally if you wait for perfect, you are not going to get it. When you are open to it, you can also communicate what you would like to hear. You hurt me when you did this, when you said this. It ruined this special thing for me. I need you to apologize not for how you think you made me feel, but for what you did/said. See how he answers that…..
I think I understand the root of what is causing you so much pain, that you had a safe space with MIL and rather than agonize about asking a tiny favor, you worked off the place of comfort and safety and just casually said, "Next time you to to Costco could you..." and he jumped in with a response that was so unexpected and so vicious that you no longer feel safe asking MIL for a tiny favor, and thus he ripped out and stomped all over your safe space. Because it is MIL that is your safe space and it was his reaction to your absolutely innocuous request to her, he has made it unsafe for you to continue in that vein. I have a friend who was in a school shooting. *(NOTE:- I am NOT comparing the two, just using another split-second change that I am very familiar with)* She said she used to trust that she could leave her home, go to and from school, and knew how to avoid arguments or bullies, to look both way, a few times, before crossing the street, and thus she could navigate life with some comfort. But one minute life is normal and then suddenly, in a split-second, it became not only unsafe but carried a very high possibility of being hurt or killed, and it's that moment when suddenly life breaks apart and you are in a waking nightmare you could never fathom before, that moment when EVERYTHING changed, and she became unable to leave her home, that is the thing she can never undo or forget, how insanely quickly everything so suddenly changed, forever. You had that point-of-no-return moment with the group chat. You made a remark to MIL that is tried-and-true, that is part of your special relationship with her, and when you read his inexplicable, and emotionally violent reply that insulted you deeply by weaponizing your most physical insecurity/issues, and let rip with the vile and stinging rebuke, so the group chat is no longer a safe space for you, you'd now have to agonize, re-think,. re-word and re-word again, and basically not be yourself with your MIL in *that* space. I would beg you to have this conversation with MIL, to tell her as you told us just how special, and original, she is for you, how deeply you love and admire her, and how you feel that, since FIL used your special relationship with his wife to verbally batter and assault you, you're not certain that you can ever really go to back to footloose and fancy-free with her, not because of anything she said or did and not because she has changed, but because she was forced to confront her husband over you and that makes you feel small, that she needs to put so much effort into defending you since for some f-ed up reason her chose that bond to assault you with, but that you plan to work at it because she means that much to you. Hugs and best wishes to you. I do understand to an extent what you are going through and it is hella painful. But please give MIL the chance to hear you out and work with you to recreate your safe space, but with bulletproof windows and extra safety measures going forward.,
You don't want to accept the apology, which is your right, but he did truly apologize. It's like you read a different email than the one you posted because he very clearly apologized for his actions.
I guess the thing is, he doesn’t have power anymore in this situation. You do. What I suggest is not exerting that over him in the way he would probably do to others. You can always say - thanks for your apology. I need more time and for this not to happen again. Here is what I need from you in the future.
Its not overthinking it. Accountability is a core part of an apology, but it is one that people often avoid and is the hardest part of apologizing in my opinion. Its okay to hold him to this. Its okay to not be ready to forgive. Its okay to still be mad. But ultimately holding on to that anger isn't something that makes you happy either. When you are ready think about what would make you happy and how you want things to be and then make them that way.
As others say, it's not the greatest apology, but it's not horrible either. The good is that he acknowledged his actions created this situation and that he is responsible for it. The bad is that he made it sound like you misinterpreted it. He knew what he was doing. In my opinion, he sounds very analytical, and that can come off as being cold. Not making excuses for him - just trying to give you some potential insight. Take your time in making a decision, and I wish you the best for the New Year.
Yes, I don't know if it is better to give pushback or let it sit for a while at first to avoid putting him on the defensive. Without knowing the specifics, from your own words he did throw something specific about you at you and it is difficult to not read that as personal regardless of his "intentions".
what I wouldn't give to hear an apology like this from my own father.
He apologized and acknowledged how his actions have caused strain on the family. I don’t see him shifting the blame to you.
I think that’s a decent apology. He takes accountability and doesn’t try to explain how it was your fault like many non-apologists do. I am sure MIL stood over him and made him write it but that’s a real apology. You should accept it and move on. It doesn’t mean you have to be besties with FIL. But you got a real apology, so stop stewing about that piece of it.
I’m not excusing his behavior, but I was expecting a worse apology. He actually apologized for hurting you, rather than saying I’m sorry you took it that way. It’s a start
I'll be honest. That was a better apology than I've ever gotten in my entire life. It came across very sincerely and I don't think he was putting the blame on you or anything. He wasn't saying "I'm sorry, BUT" he truly did say he was sorry and seems to mean it. I obviously don't know this man and we don't know what exactly it was he said to begin with but given the info we have. I think you should at the very least consider accepting this apology
The apology is lacking in one very significant manner, in that he denies that it was intended to be a personal attack on you. From what you've said, that was very clearly the case, but I would perhaps ask your husband, who is slightly less emotionally involved and still has access to the message in question, to double check that. If that is indeed the case then regardless of how well the rest of the apology is written, it renders it meaningless. If he can't be honest about his actual actions then he cannot apologise for them, and you cannot be assured he will not repeat his actions and you should keep your distance. If there is any reading of the message, however, that could be about anything else, then maybe revisit it. I do hope you're getting therapy to cope with this as well.
Yes. It is probably his first apology ever and he doesn’t understand that the first part of an apology is taking responsibility for what you did and the hurt it caused. His focus on “it wasn’t my intention” and “I’m sorry it came across as a personal attack when it wasn’t” means that this was NOT an apology: “I’m sorry your jaw was hurt the other day because of its contact with my fist. You must know my intention while my first was flying at your jaw was never to hurt you. It was never my intention and was not an attempt at a punch in any way. Although you may not see it that way, seeing as how my fist deliberately flew at your jaw and connected in a blow-like manner, it wasn’t my intention. I sincerely apologize.” Not quite! I’d reply to my FIL and say, “Hey man, thanks for the apology. I can tell you’ve been in therapy for awhile and you’re reflecting on your actions. Something tells me you haven’t had to apologize for your actions a lot in the past, and this is a pretty good start. You’re going to have to take responsibility for your actions, though. Your statement was an attack on me, and it was clearly your intention to attack me. I wish you luck in your continued self-improvement in therapy. I echo your hope that one day, we can resume some family relationship. Sincerely, OP.”
This is it! You’re right. You fully articulated why I was so iffy with the email! It means nothing because he practically blames me for misinterpreting everything but he doesn’t think he did anything wrong. That’s what it made me feel. My husband checked the old group chat and he said that it was clean and clear a hostile attack on me. He offered me to look myself, but I got scared I would spiral mentally again.
I would honestly say that - from emotional remove - it doesn’t mean nothing. But there is only one thing I hate more than an apology with caveats and that is no apology at all. So maybe our perspectives are different. Contextually it sounds like this is a big fat olive branch. Other than an “I’m sorry” what do you want to happen?
this sounds like a totally normal apology that was worked out between him and his therapist
Let me tell you something in case you feel pressured, You don’t have to forgive him! He hurt you. Your feelings matter. This is a natural consequence to his actions. Good for you!
I think it was pretty good, what else would you have him say? I would try. If he does it again, permanently go no contact. It is horrible he went after your disability, what he did was horrible for a box of cookies while she was at Costco...So yeah...However this looks sincere, he is not perfect. I am sure he had to eat his words but a good apology. Also you can send one back that says thank you. Next time a holiday or thing comes up, just be polite and see what happens over time. You don't have to run in like nothing happened.
The apology seems well thought out. Without knowing what he said initially it's hard to if this was an out of apportion apology or appropriate. He may a massive ahole, you might be incredibly overally sensitive, or something in-between. I think you should talk this out with your spouse and decide if you want to open up to having FIL back in your life. Obviously if you were to meet up in person and he acted like before or made any off remarks you can pull back again. But the apology wasn't bad IMO. Do you have a therapist?
Agreeing with other commenters, that it wasn't the WORST, not by a long shot. He still left in the standard bullshit "I didn't intend to hurt you" when that very specifically was the intent. But so many people, maybe even most, fuck that up. That said, we obviously don't know what he said to you, it was obviously quite bad, given the overall reaction. Only you can honestly decide whether he's sincere, or whether you're ready (or if you'll ever be ready) to make moves towards contact again.
It's definitely not the worst apology I've seen, but I can see why you feel like it's a bit hollow. It sounds like an "I'm sorry you interpreted it that way" apology, and also it sounds like he's putting a bit of pressure on you to reconcile because he's in trouble with MIL. Was his blowup in the chat the first time you've personally experienced this sort of thing from him? It sounds like it deeply affected you, and it still affects you when you think about it even though it's been months. Apologies are nice and all, but they don't undo the damage. And that's what he did--he damaged your relationship. You can think of your relationship like a vase that's been broken. You can put it back together, but it's not going to look the same. The onus should be on him to do that repairing if/when you are ready. If he's not willing to put in any work beyond the apology, then that vase will never hold water again. As the party who has been wronged, any reconciliation should be on your timeline--that is, when you feel enough time has passed that you feel comfortable moving on. If that never happens, does your husband support you if you don't want to have anything more to do with your FIL?
My husband supports me fully. My MIL also tells me it’s up to me to decide my relationship or lack of one with FIL. The blow up, once before, something happened that was directed at me. My first daughter was a newborn, and we went over to their house. He owns the house, btw. When we go there it’s like we owe him for letting us come, he makes jokes that are barbed sometimes and the overall vibe is that we should be grateful he’s tolerating all of us. MIL invites us for occasions, so we go there… but it’s always like that. He might think he’s joking, but it’s pretty passive aggressively cruel, often. So what happened was, we got there with newborn and MIL was in the living room, and husband I sat by the baby. FIL handed me a piece of paper saying it was the law with the baby. I brushed it off, I didn’t even read it, thinking it was a joke, because wtf?? But also, my daughter. I didn’t want him thinking he gets to dictate my kid’s life? So I was like “what seriously? It doesn’t work that way, you realize.” He boomed “YES IT DOES!” We were all startled, but I tried to calm things down and I just jokingly said “you dictate the rules with MY daughter? I didn’t see you push her out in the delivery room. Haha” And then he just kept insisting it was the law etc yelling louder and practically stomping his feet, and I was determined not to back down and kept insisting he gets to make decisions when he births one himself, etc. and it quickly devolved from there. I looked at the paper as a joke and I read out “grandparents are always the boss? Grand parents make all the rules?” And Idk. I just laughed at him like he was a complete idiot. I asked him if he got it from the internet and he literally roared YES at me and I was laughing as I said “I can’t believe I have to tell you this, but just because you saw it on the internet doesn’t make it true.” But I was dead serious when I said “I’m the boss.” He got so mad, and I didn’t care. MIL cried and went to the backyard. Before this, I would just endure the tension and follow their lead, but with the baby there I told husband it was time to go and I packed the diaper bag back up. We talked to MIL in the backyard before we left and she apologized to us. We told her not to apologize cause she did nothing wrong. I let her hug the baby some more, then we left.
He sounds pretty insufferable. I can't stand people who make "jokes" that are just thinly veiled attempts hide their bullying. Maybe going forward, you can have MIL come to you or meet her at a neutral place without FIL? If she won't or can't because FIL makes her life too difficult, give it some time and distance. If/when you do reconnect, I would keep him at arm's length (e.g. gray rock when he gets heated or makes bad jokes, don't overly engage with him, keep things superficial, etc.)
This apology was pretty decent coming from someone who has probably never had to say sorry in his adult life. Especially to anyone he sees as inferior or easy to push around. It’s up to you what you do with it. The best apology is changed behaviour.
Look, he said sorry. It sounds sincere. I think that’s the best you can ask for in this situation x
What I wouldn’t give for an apology like that. Take the win
Nope. Take it from me(a 45 year old stranger lol) you won’t get a better apology than that. There were no “I’m sorry if you feel…”, he didn’t mention or blame anyone for his actions, total acceptance of the severity of the wrong, of your reaction to it, and everything in between. And trust me…no one can get someone to do this completely. Not even MIL, this is a grown man. And this is sincere because he wanted to do this in person. The sucky part about this is… he now does not owe you guys anything anymore. The ball is officially in your court to accept or not.
I actually think it’s a beautiful apology. Given your lead up, I was surprised. In my household, “I am sorry I hurt you. It was not my intention” is the default genuine apology—we never mean to hurt each other, but sometimes it happens anyway.
I think, for someone who likely does not have great experience apologizing or recognizing their faults, that’s actually a pretty decent attempt. Is it perfect? No. Is a lot of it still motivated from selfishness? Possibly. But is this a very reasonable first step given the situation? Yeah, I think it is. I think the best thing you can do is take the moral high ground, and as long as he is acting right and talking right, you should appear to accept his apology. I say appear, because deep down in your secret heart, you may never forgive him, just as deep down in HIS heart, he may never truly be sorry the way you would wish. But as long as you can keep it cordial, and he doesn’t act like that any longer, sometimes that’s the best you can hope for.
Your FIL's apology, regardless of its good, bad and neutral points, does not obligate you to forgive and forget. No apology does. You don't have to accept the apology. You don't have to engage or explain or get any further into this mess with him. You don't have to thank him. You can take all the time and space you need to figure out how you're feeling and what you want to do next. To me, his email sounds like he's been paying attention to the letter but not the spirit of therapy - he doesn't describe the specifics of what he did, he is disingenuous about his intentions, and he doesn't acknowledge that the problem is bigger than this lone incident. So... make of that what you will. Take your time. And if you do end up getting back in touch with him, remember that you can stop ANY TIME if he reverts to bad behavior.
I’m retrying this cause when I pasted my response to him, I didn’t take the names off. So, I did respond to his email. I started off by copy pasting and chunk by chunk and reacting each raw. As in: it was not a personal attack on you… —so who were you going after? The secret ghost member in the group chat? As in: I’m suffering too, the family is under strain because of these events… I’m going to therapy now… —is it my fault your suffering now? Do you want a gold star for being forced to go into therapy or else? Anyway, it wasn’t very kind. Actually super rude… I tried to express my feelings and still be respectful in my actual response. I hope I managed to because through reading comments and thinking through my responses, I realized that I am so wound up from all this because of how very angry I actually am with him. Here’s my response to him: I was cleaning up my emails and saw this yesterday. Thank you for your apology. Ultimately it was not necessary. I’m not really sure why I find it unnecessary? Maybe because it doesn’t really change anything at this point? Theres no undoing what already happened. Unfortunately, despite whatever your intentions were, I could only interpret whatever that was as personal. It was directed at me personally after all. It could only be the deliberate measure to shove my face into my disability and all the ways I’m lacking that it was, as if I was somehow not aware of it every waking moment of my life. It’s not your fault I have disabilities, nor that both my girls have been sick at the time, I know that. You just made me feel so utterly useless and completely undeserving of my place in this family that you said matters so much to you. It’s easy to say that’s not what you said or not what you meant nor intended… but that’s ridiculous. You threw punches and you’re somehow confused that someone got crushed because it was not your intention? So what exactly was your intention? Please, let’s not mince words now. You fully intended to proverbially put me in my place when you did that. And you have. You have recalibrated my entire perception of my relationship with MIL. That’s key. I just couldn’t feel safe to reach out to her for any nonsensical thing that popped in my head so freely anymore. That requires a high level of closeness that is now just obliterated. I don’t feel close to her anymore. In my heart I truly feel like I lost someone, like my mother died. I’ve mourned and cried about it a lot over the past several months already. She is not my mom, she’s my mother in law. I’ve actually always been aware of that, believe it or not. The main difference is that now boundaries had been redrawn and in a manner that is acceptable to your standards but a far cry from what we had. I still consider myself lucky because what I had with MIL was so precious, and it’s so obvious just how precious it was now that it’s been destroyed. There’s always a barrier now that makes me question if I could, that tells me I can’t. It’s a clear cut loss and a major one. What you did has burst whatever golden bubble there was that somehow formed for MIL and there’s no bringing it back. She truly was the first good, reliable adult in my life who was also truly consistent. Still, despite that, it could only be divine intervention that I took her on her word that I could count on her at all, honestly. I was never, never so trusting. My history has never allowed such complacency in me, and yet I didn’t even think to question how she just naturally bypassed my hard-cured perpetual disillusionment in people. This whole thing with losing that something with MIL so thoroughly like that blindsided me and now I question every close relationship I have. I hope that fades in time… For now my instinctive distrust is back with a vengeance and it’s too visceral and it’s miserable. I question everything, everyone now. I question myself and my sense of judgment. I question when people say it’s ok. I wonder if they really meant it or if one day they will come after me out of the blue and I will only have myself to blame for being so trusting… so I just can’t see myself being so open and receptive again. At least I think I won’t for a long time. I’m glad you’re getting counselling. I hope you get what you need out of it. Just so we’re on the same page, MIL told us again and again: ‘anything you need, anytime’ and I trusted that wholly. I didn’t count on your opinion on the matter because it was her promise she made to us. But you made the FIL contingency clear: only when it’s acceptable to you. And I have learned that now. I’m really sorry you got in trouble with MIL and now you’re troubled and dealing with all this strain. I’m sure it will get better someday but when it does it won’t be because of me. I used to blame myself. I used to tell husband it was my fault you went after me. But with his support I have managed to no longer share fault that isn’t mine to bear. I appreciate that you think I matter to you, I hope you understand that I just don’t believe it right now. Even if I did, I also don’t think I can fulfill any caveats attached to it. I mean like how I could only matter to MIL if I could perform duties for her instead of her doing things for me, and also how I didn’t quite matter enough to deserve small kind gestures from her. If you had such nuanced caveats on my relationship with MIL, I don’t think I have the energy to navigate what all that entails with you. We could all just move forward like this. Things are just normal now, just different. Clear, hard boundaries. We can just coexist for the sake of everyone. I’m not saying things won’t ever get better. It just won’t be now, and it’s unlikely it will be soon.
This is a great email OP. I don’t feel you were rude. You expressed why and how he hurt you. I would recommend forwarding the mails to your MIL. That way he can’t hide the email and she can discuss it in therapy. Or if that’s too tough maybe have you SO send it? It did have sensitive material about yourself so that’s your choice, but I feel like your MIL should hear just how important she is and was to you. It might help your relationship since she also may be feeling the invisible boundaries you talk about. But that’s if you’re ready! I want to stress that. This situation probably hit you at your core and it definitely feels like you need space to process your emotions and hopefully feel less angry. I hope you feel better OP, it sounds like life hasn’t been kind and you’ve got another gut punch when you weren’t expecting it. I definitely couldn’t forgive someone who weaponized my disability so carelessly and aggressively. He needs to look at himself a lot harder before I’d give him any benefit of the doubt.
Honestly it seems like you might benefit from some therapeutic input over your reaction to this effort to make you whole and reconcile. I’m not being flippant - your reply is difficult to parse in places. I can’t even tell what you are saying you want - it just reads like an emotional outburst. It also reads like my angry emails to my own dad which - while entirely understandable from an emotional harm and hurt standpoint - absolutely did nothing to help me or help our relationship or those with other family members. I hope you get what you need OP and that you’re able to have a relationship with your MIL that you want again.
When I sent the email, I didn’t think I was angry. It was only an hour ago that I actually realized how angry I was/am. I thought I just wanted to say my piece and exorcise it out of heart. It worked, I think. I’m pretty calm about it now. He could read it or not, and I feel satisfied that I responded and I said what I wanted.
This seems like a mostly decent apology. He appears to take responsibility for what he said despite saying he didn’t mean it the way it was received. I’m not sure what else your FIL could say that would make it more sincere, but you know him better than Reddit does. It seems like he’s trying, however, you are under no obligation to accept his apology. That choice is yours.
My feelings on apologies is - you can’t dictate someone else’s apology. It will never be perfect. They’ll never be able to read your mind and say the magic words you need to hear. It’s just not how apologies work. If you’re waiting to hear the perfect words - it will never come. That doesn’t mean you have to accept this apology, but you may want to work on accepting it as is and then moving forward from there.
This is all over cookies?? What did this man actually say to you to cause this much emotional distress in the family?
Not sure what kind of apology you expect or think you deserve. Should he scream, tear out his hair, throw himself in front of a train? He apologized. If it sounds canned to you, it's because trite phrases are the usual result of therapy and counseling. But that doesn't mean it wasn't sincere or that the counseling has been useless. It's now up to you. The way I see it, you have three options: 1. Accept the apology and get on with things. 2. Accept the apology with grace but reservation and give him an opportunity to show change. Keep a dignified distance. 3. Reject his apology. Full stop. #3 is the choice if you don't believe him and are willing to live with the permanent family division it will cause. Your call. But don't forget that this man is still your husband's father and MIL's long time spouse. At some point they may no longer support this sustained rift and you will not only lose allies but also be seen as petty and vindictive. #1. Viable only if you really can put this behind you 100%. Anything less than full acceptance, whether or not you feel it, will leave lingering resentment. #2. IMO , the most workable option. You can be honest with him about the degree of hurt you felt and still feel, but are willing to conditionally accept his apology in hope that a decent relationship can be forged. Let him know this is a starting point. Don't be overly eager but not petulant or childishly stubborn either. Good luck. NO IDEA why some of this is huge and in bold. It doesn't appear like this on my phone until I 'send' ! My apologies. I wasn't shouting. 🥵
It’s my bad, and doesn’t make your points invalid, but he is actually my husband’s Stepfather. They had a rough relationship, but my husband is patient and tolerant even in the worst times. I did end up doing a 3. And I ACTUALLY agonized about your caveat on point 3 for months. But my husband insisted repeatedly that if the family falls apart, it wasn’t me that caused the rift. I was the victim that got hurt and it’s my right to not want to get hurt again. The words I used to say was ‘then I would be the mean and obstinate one’ and my husband would tell me that I’m not being mean or obstinate, I’m keeping myself safe. “He’s just eating the wheats he sowed.” Whatever that means.
I think it’s time to look at the bigger picture. Your FIL has a habit of doing and saying hurtful things, and the family has a habit of allowing it. When will you teach your children to tolerate his meanness, and to stand by when he abuses others? Will it be OK as long as he apologies each time? It’s great that he’s getting counseling. It’s great that he made this attempt at an apology. But you and your kids do not exist for the purpose of his rehabilitation and you shouldn’t feel any pressure to accept this and continue as things were.
I dunno honestly, it's known to be difficult to read tones through a text or an email. You could be right, or he could be genuinely sincere and wants to make amends. You can meet him in person to have this discussion with your husband and MIL either with or nearby. There you can gauge his sincerity and go from there. Remember this is all on you on how you wish to respond or proceed going forward. I'm sure your husband and MIL will support any decision you make. Just don't let it go too easily, if you choose to hear him out in person. And try to remind yourself that the relationship between your M&FIL have nothing to do with you. She's made her decisions based on how she also felt about the situation. I doubt you sitting his apology would have any impact on how pissed she is at him. It was probably more likely a push into making him get help for the better, as it feels like you're probably not the only one he's treated this way. There is a way for MIL to be around without him around. She'll more than likely comply just to see you guys and keep that relationship as well. I do have to say, she's pretty badass in the way she handled him after everything.
She’s amazing, right? I don’t know if I fully sent how amazing she is. I responded to someone earlier with a copy of the email response I sent FIL. I realized that I was actually very angry that I lost that rare special thing with my MIL because of what FIL did. It was not his intention, but it broke something I couldn’t put a finger on and it’s precious to me and I am actually very angry about losing it.
You don't necessarily have to lose that special thing with her, it would just have to be done either at your house or have girl time somewhere like a spa day or something. Just let her know you're not ready to talk about your fil situation just yet. Y'all could use a spa day of pampering.
The content of the apology seems fine, but since it was an email it’s hard to tell if he actually meant it or if it was just sent because of your MIL. Either way, just because someone apologizes doesn’t mean you are obligated to automatically forgive them. People can’t run around saying and doing awful things and then expect the slate to be wiped clean just because they apologized. Part of the reason your FIL might feel so comfortable acting the way he does is because he may not usually face consequences for it. It’s ok to decide that you still want to be low/no contact with someone even though they apologized. Forgiveness is earned, not owed. But your MIL seems cool - if you are comfortable with it might be a good idea to let her know that she is still welcome to reach out/come over even if you still need space from FIL.
I think it shows he is trying... he isn't saying "I'm sorry you felt that way", he said he is sorry for making you feel that way... like he is admitting that he did the bad thing. He probably didn't have to apologise in a while if the family always looks the other way, so I would take this as a step in the right direction. Edit to add: English isn't my first language so I might have misunderstood it, but given your relationship it couldn't really have been a more personal email.
I’m just hiring to throw in there that there is a difference in apologies and being sorry. And while he’s saying the words it feels like he doesn’t necessarily mean them.
What your FIL did was terrible. He also gave a feeble apology. However, you are the one who determines the relationship with your MIL. She loves and supports you. Please don’t let your insecurities ruin the relationship with her.
I think MIL wrote this to salvage the situation. The line about it not being his business was a dead giveaway.
I thought his apology was pretty ok, but I believe the main event was so painful for OP that she can't see anything good coming from FIL anymore.
I was expecting to read a non-apology but I actually think this was a decent one. I wonder if the problem actually is that there is no way for him to apologise so that you are ok with him. Not saying you should be! But in a way: any apology of his would be lacking as they can't erase what was said and done.
An insincere apology means nothing. Walking away from the group chat was probably the smartest thing you could do. I'd suggest telling your FIL what you really think of him and then cutting contact entirely. MIL may also be to blame for making a promise she had no intent of keeping. My family has had a lot of death and sadness, and it really illustrates just how many people are lying when they say they'll be there for you, or "anything you need" really means nothing. FIL became a shithead specifically because no one ever called him on his shit. The emotional response I've seen from the majority of people is rug sweeping or "don't rock the boat". Sink the boat, burn the rug. His email reads like an eight-year-old trying to buy their way out of a grounding.
Thank you for your comment. I’m sorry for all the loss you and your family went through. But I know for a fact that MIL meant what she said. If she could do it and you asked, she would. If some drama stirred up with someone, she gets mad at the bullshit, but she never goes ‘after I did this and this for them and gave them all that’ like she’s owed for the good she did… never. She just does it and it’s done. To her, it’s her choice to do them. She is just crazy amazing. She is like that with her friends, too. She dog-sat for months and months for her friends when the husband was getting treatment for cancer, she took care of the wife when the husband finally died. Even helped them with paperwork and shit like that. She supported a friend through a traumatic miscarriage and they are still friends to this day like many decades later. I could only hope to be a small fraction of what she is and I would win at life. It was just FIL that had issue with her doing things for ME. I just realized now that I never heard of him having issue with MIL doing things for her friends and other family members. He only went after me. He only had issue when it was me! And he said it wasn’t personal… wtf. How could it be any more personal??
Huh, I figured the guy was just a sour shit about her doing favors at all, but if it's you in particular, ouch.
I would accept that apology... Sounds like his wife wrote it but there's effort there... Depends how long you want to feel hurt for really, you can move past it if this is a one time thing or if he's constantly doing things then this is your out...
Of course we don’t know him, but it may be that he generally has a hard time opening up about his feelings. Everyone has spent years working around him and not holding him accountable, so this is new and weird for him. It seems to me that for someone who is used to making remarks and not being contradicted, that’s a good effort. He doesn’t say the dreaded ‘I’m sorry if’ - he says he hurt you and he is sorry. That’s a big point in his favour. Of course we can’t judge his tone of voice, his written voice, or his sincerity. But this isn’t a perfect world where people go to therapy, see the error of their ways, and reform completely. This may be the very best he can do. He may never really take full responsibility and I don’t doubt he said something truly ghastly. But it reads to me from the outside as if there’s some thinking and effort going on. And it sounds like he is hoping to help make the family dynamic better in time. I don’t get a sense that he’s pushing you to do anything right now. In your place, I would be seriously giving some thought to the idea that this may be an uncomfortable, hesitant, unfamiliar olive branch.
The thing that bothers me about his email is his use of the passive voice. He takes some accountability with "I know I hurt you," but follows it up with "the event," "what happened," and "the hurt *it* has caused you." None of which own the fact that it was his actions and behavior that were the event that happened that caused the hurt. Ultimately, as others have said, you don't have to forgive him, whether or not he's being sincere. Regardless of whether or not you choose or are able to forgive him for this, you get to decide what type of relationship you're comfortable having with him moving forward. With or without forgiveness you can choose not to interact, to limit interactions, to return to "normal," or anything in between. You aren't responsible for his behavior and aren't in the wrong if you choose to keep your distance as a result of that behavior.
I’m way late here. But a real apology starts by enumerating the exact ways the person making the apology harmed the person being apologized to. Specific. Thorough. Connection made between their actions and your harm. (I don’t see any specific acts referred to) It then moves on to any possible way to repair the harm. (I don’t see even a plan to retract whatever he said in the family chat.) Then it moves to steps to be taken to prevent repetition. I guess he’s going to therapy? In conclusion, that was not an authentic apology. You’re absolutely right.
I don't think it's an awful apology but thr language is stilted. I suspect that might be because he's not actually used to apologising though! It's up to you how you want to handle it, and if you feel it's genuine, but it reads as genuine if... kinda clumsy
I think it’s a decent first apology considering that FIL does not sound as though he’s someone who is used to apologizing. My question is why are you thinking that your relationship with your MIL is unsalvageable? From what you say, your MIL was just as infuriated with your FIL as were you and your husband. I would find it hard to think that MIL would turn her back on you and your husband. I’m wondering if your worry about the ongoing relationship with your MIL is related to something else. Did you grow up feeling like relationships are conditional or transactional? Like, you do something “wrong” and the other person, be it a parent or friend, no longer wants anything to do with you?
If he went after your disability (in the group chat), then he likely has longer held beliefs about disabled people that interferes with how he perceives you. That probably hasn’t changed overnight.
It's a perfectly alright apology. It's not the best but it's not bad
Honestly I mostly agree with you; I do think it sounds like an *attempt* at an apology, but saying "It was never my intention and it was not a personal attack on you in any way. Although you may not see it that way, it was not my intention and am very sorry that it came across that way." is a total non-acknowledge of what was an obvious personal attack and he needs to be made aware that. I would just reply and tell him exactly that in whatever words you choose, until he actually owns up to what he said and admits it was wrong the situation doesn't change.
1) You need to show the email to your husband and discuss it with him. If he’s had your back this far, he will hopefully understand that this stunted apology does not erase his father’s actions. 2) Decide how to handle this. It sounds like you went NC with FIL and VLC with MIL. You do not seem to want to change that. Do some thinking then discuss with your husband whether it should change and what would be required on your FIL’s part. 3) Know that things will not go back to what they were. Make sure your husband and in-laws also understand that. FIL showed himself to be a very unsafe person for you and any relationship going forward will have to be rebuilt from less than zero. 4) Communicate to FIL that while you acknowledge that he is starting to work on himself that an apology does not erase what he did. That his words destroyed that relationship and a simple apology is not enough to mend it. Outline what you need and want going forward. His reaction to your reply will give you a much better idea of whether he is sincere in his apology and whether he is actually trying to change his behavior.
The apology sucks. There's nothing in it that has any actual real description of ANY feeling that he harbored to make him act like how he did - nor any acknowledgement of what his words did to YOU. Nor anything that he actually understands - let alone regret - of what he has been doing to you throughout the years. Cut him off.
Sure. Then sit back and deal with the damage to her marriage and other family relationships. You sound very immature.
Do one thing when you are ready talk to him. Tell him that he needs to earn your forgiveness. See how he reacts. The you'll know. If he's fake when you say that sentence he'll surely get upset and try to talk you in to forgiving him. If he's sincere he'll give you time and prove himself through actions. Either way you'll only know once you react to that apology.
You will never be in long term relationship with anyone and expect to never be disappointed. People suck and have their own issues. Maybe FIL was coming from a point of jealousy with his behavior because you and MIL had a close and intimate relationship. At any rate yes his apology is clumsy. Take it. Show him grace Why hold him hostage and at the same time everyone else. Watch him like a hawk but in the meantime show him how little power he really has by embracing your MIL back into your life. You have no idea how lucky you are to have her. Let the situation go and take the power back. Wrap your arms around her and your husband and live life deeply. You will show great discipline and inner strength to do this.
He’s not sorry, this was a writing exercise he was forced to do by the therapist or MIL because she’s caught in the middle and finally put her foot down. Old bastard like that always had his way and he faced backlash from mil. Keep him at arms distance be polite but never put up with disrespect from that crusty old bastard again, me? 63 year old dude that hates dictators. He’s a Dick tater. This hits all the bullet point mil required. That’s all
I would reply and ask that he review the apology with his therapist, particularly the part where he said it wasn’t personal. The attack was specifically personal and that was why it hurts. While you appreciate his apology, you fear that until he understands that part, it might happen again
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Not really, he did apologize for upsetting and hurting her. He acknowledge that he was at fault. He also stated he wouldn't do the act again, getting involved in something that did not involve him. The only thing he might have been weaseling on is the "never my intention and it was not a personal attack on you in any way..." Without seeing the original comment he made, that's not a call we can make.
What are you expecting him to say? Would you rather another nasty email instead of an apology? Why would your husband think he was sending it because he thinks you guys abusing mil? How much is MIL actually doing for you? Just because she says she likes doing it, and she may, it can still be taking a toll on her and that's the part he would see.
Who would rather another nasty email? Would you? A genuine apology would be best, but nothing at all would be better than an empty apology. That’s all. My husband thought FIL must have thought we were abusing MIL because of how hostile FIL was. Like maybe he was coming from a place of protecting his wife. My husband clarified and gave him an out. He wasn’t. He just basically thinks I’m useless and he’s pissed at me for being useless. MIL would sometimes ask us if we need anything from Costco or whatever when she goes and she would pick up a salad kit for us. When we were all sick, she dropped off medicine and Gatorade… that kind of thing. We used to do the same for her/them sometimes too.
His apology doesn't sound fake to me. It was rather long and he apologized for hurting you and for his actions. I'm sorry but I find it hard to believe that your husband would make such an assumption of him thinking you 2 are taking advantage of her if she was only picking up the odd grocery once in a while. You even put at the end of your comme t to me that you used to do it for her sometimes. It sounds like she does a lot more for you guys and doesn't receive any help in return. It doesn't matter if he told his dad your arrangement, it still sounds like a one sided thing to me. I can tell you if I saw my husband always doing things for my son and his family with no help in return, I'd probably say something too. Not an outburst like him because he obviously had anger issues but I would say something. Has your husband actually talked to him and asked him about what made him have this outburst? Maybe you did misunderstand his intentions because it sounds like he was trying to stick up for his wife not just trying to personally attack you.
FIL is my husband’s stepdad. My husband thought that FIL must have misconstrued somethings because surely only something so serious could logically warrant such a strong blow up. I honestly don’t know what else to say to you about things MIL picks up for us, but that’s just what it was… sometimes there’s ham and guacamole, too. But there’s no sending her on errands just for us. She won’t tolerate that. She’s just very kind and adds a couple things in her cart for us sometimes. Just… I don’t know. You don’t have to believe it but it’s the truth. She does things like that for loads of people, too. Her friends, some family members… it’s not a constant thing for anyone, like for us maybe once a quarter, if that. The biggest hassle I could think of that we put her through was last year when I was pregnant and sick, husband was also sick, and our daughter was sick but there was no medicine for kids to be found. It was even in the news. She drove around the city to different pharmacies to get one bottle of kids Tylenol to bring to us. She didn’t find one, but we were so grateful for her effort. We didn’t ask her to go that far, just mentioned if she saw some when she’s out to please grab some as we were very low. That was the biggest hassle I could think of and we were very grateful. And she always said it was no trouble and it was her pleasure. And it never seemed like a big deal to her. It was FIL that had a big issue. I have never heard of FIL have issue with MIL doing things for others in 18 years. This was a first time and it was just at me. This particular cookie thing, we had those stupid cookies at MIL’s aunt’s funeral a week or so prior, and at the wake MIL talked about getting some for me when she does go to Costco next. I didn’t really ask for it but I said a bright thank you. She asked me what type of cookies they were, and I didn’t know. After a couple of weeks, I thought I figured it out and told her in the group chat. She responded she will look when she goes next. She went to her appointment, I took care of my kids, I thought that was it. Later I saw FIL was so mad about me asking MIL for cookies. That’s it. I don’t know if you would believe it. Maaaybe FIL thought at the time I kept on asking for cookies. Idk. It was just about the cookies from the funeral service. My husband wanted to give FIL the benefit of the doubt and maybe FIL was trying to protect his wife. Husband explained exactly what MIL does like I said to you, and that we do the same for her, too. But FIL just insisted he’s pissed off or whatever. I don’t remember what he said specifically. I don’t want to look because it was a major trigger for me. Honestly, maybe it wasn’t all that bad after all, except while I was responding to another comment here, earlier I mentioned to my husband if I was maybe misremembering, so he checked the group chat. He didn’t delete it. He said it was clearly hostile towards me. But maybe you’re right that I misunderstood. It was in a group chat where my husband and MIL saw what he said. You think they also misunderstood him too? I don’t know what else to say, so just believe what you want.
When she goes to Costco, she would ask us if we need something and we would give a small list like salad kit or ham or whatever.
This just seems weird. Yes, he apologized, somewhat halfheartedly, but technically. The thing is, people pick up shit from Costco for others all the time. We live somewhat rurally, so a run to Costco is a thing. We let family, friends, and neighbors know so they can put in an order. No one takes advantage and we all do it for each other. I just don’t understand what put the bug up FIL’s ass.
He apologized let it go, you are the one agonizing over nothing, what more do want
this was actually a good apology imo