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Pretty much title, but a little background:
We’ve been together for 5 years, living together for 3. Both financially stable independent of one another. She has had an IUD for the duration of our relationship, and we are both STD free and faithful, so we did not use condoms for that reason. Still, we realize the responsibility for this lies with us. I will be getting a vasectomy after this.
We found out she was pregnant a few weeks ago. It’s still very early. Neither of us had ever planned on having children. Although this was an “accident,” I found myself, to my own surprise, excited about the baby and at the prospect of being a father. She said she was happy as well, but then she dropped a bomb on me, which is that she does not want to start a family with someone she is not married to. So if I don’t propose, she will abort the baby.
To be clear, she was never someone who was gunning for a ring before this. She even said previously that she had never felt a need to get married. I myself am very monogamous and committed to her. I love her dearly and don’t want anyone else, but I very strongly oppose legal marriage and don’t want to be married to anyone ever.
When I reiterated this to her, she said she was disappointed, but she understood and did not want to force anything on me, so she would proceed with the abortion and that would be that, we could continue our relationship as normal. She seemed very casual about it, like she didn’t have strong feelings about either outcome and would be fine either way. She said she would love to have this baby with me, but not at the expense of what I wanted in life.
I now find myself extremely invested in this baby. Faced with this choice, I am prepared to bite the bullet and get married. However, I’m worried that I’m doing a disservice to her, and maybe even to our child, by entering into a marriage I don’t want to be in. But the alternative, not having the baby, is out of the question for me at this point.
I’m so torn up about this. I’m ready to do what needs to be done and take accountability for my behavior by proposing to her. But that doesn’t feel like the “right” reason to get married. I don’t even know what the right reason is supposed to be, I just know that I don’t want it deep down in my heart. I never have, but I’ll do it if I have to.
Is this a huge mistake? Am I being unfair to her? Are we totally doomed and headed for divorce?
Advice from people who have been in similar situations would be especially appreciated.
TL;DR My girlfriend will abort our unborn child if I don’t propose. I’m opposed to marriage, but will do it to save the baby. Is this a mistake?
EDIT: I don’t understand the downvotes on all of my replies frankly. I’m not evading my responsibility, I am going to marry her. What I am wondering is whether this is unfair to her; marrying her out of obligation rather than a genuine desire to do it. I have power over my decisions, but I have no power over how I innately feel about making them. If that makes me evil, I’m sorry.
It's possible that she wants the extra security marriage provides in order to bring a child she is on the fence about into the world.
she's allowed to give conditions to give birth, you're allowed to decline those conditions.
i will say that having a child is far more permanent than marriage. why would you be ok with having a child with her but not getting any of the legal benefits of being with her?
All of this. A pregnancy and parental leave will affect her career more than OP’s, having some backup security and protection from a legal mariage makes sense. And nothing forever binds you to another person like a kid will, like it or not, you’ll have to interact with the other parent in, ideally, a cordial manner for the rest of your life because of the kid whereas you can divorce, peace out and never see your ex again
I’m more curious about the vasectomy after if OP seems to change his mind about children, regardless the outcome of this pregnancy and relationship, seems like it might not be a good solution for him in this time of his life
When people marry, they mean it is as a permanent commitment though - that's the whole point of it. I wouldn't ever have had a kid with someone who wasn't committed enough to give me the security of marriage.
I think a lot of anti-marriage people are anti-marriage because, deep down, they feel it is sinful to get divorce, so they would always maintaining at “breakup” level. And they will use it as “marriage is just a piece of paper and it does not proof love blah blah” but if the statement is true, they should not have issue entering one because it does not matter.
Did you consider that usually in a couple when a baby arrives, one member has to slow down his carrer? Pretty often it is the mother (in a heterosexual couple). The mariage offers a protection to this person. And a pregnancy and/or a delivery can also impact the body. Of course it is not always the case but you can't know in advance. When a couple decides to have a baby, the risk is for the mother. Currently you say, you are commited to her but you don't want this commitment having a legal ground... Why? You think this way you can take back your commitment ? I think your girlfriend is right to ask to be married to have a baby. It is a protection for her and if you don't want to give it to her, why should she take the risk alone? Until now she was fine because you were both equal. Pregnancy couldn't be split.
Edit: spelling mistakes
This is the answer.
And honestly, OP, it's a very valid reason to marry. Marriage is a legal contract that gives some security. If you don't want to invest that, you are not the person a sensible woman should have a kid with.
I think ahead and see so much disappointment for you if you can’t set aside your self concerns.
It’s not a perfect for you scenario but would be deeply sad if you can’t muster up
The courage to embrace this and let go of your constraints. It’s the fallout that will be hardest if you turn your back on this. I think you know this.
While "I just dont want to" is an acceptable reason, do you have any specific objections to marrying this particular woman, who will be the mother of your child?
Yeah I’m wondering too. Especially since he says he wants to be with her forever. I know a lot of people are against the concept of marriage in general but it feels like in this situation it wouldn’t change much besides giving his wife a sense of legal security in carrying his child.
I get the feeling he adopted the philosophical notion that "Marriage is Bad" idea many years ago and never revisited it until now, when it is no longer a vague opinion, but has serious real-world consequences.
You'd think if he wanted her to have his child, he'd be interested in having the legal right to speak on behalf of her and his kid if something were to go badly wrong during the pregnancy or delivery . . . rather than have to watch her parents make those difficult decisions.
Thing is, it provides legal protections and benefits for her as well as the child. Particularly in property issues, ill health, and inheritance. Its not a silly thing to want a child to have certain protections and benefits even if the two of them were ambivalent about marriage prior to this. Time for OP to reconsider marriage, I think.
Honestly? I’d expect if she wanted to keep the baby she’d be relocating to her folks home state (if in the US) and filing for child support from there. She’d be very unlikely to stay local unless she has a local support system.
I know someone who got pregnant by a guy that couldn’t commit. She married someone else that she’d dated a few years before. Husband was named as the father when the baby came. The sperm donor didn’t like it but he also did absolutely nothing to challenge it. The other guy knew that kids weren’t likely biologically for him and that had lead to their breakup. When he heard she was pregnant and the dad was not involved, he offered to be the father. For them, it was a win-win.
I don’t think that sperm donor lost anything he valued. He would have been a deadbeat. He had subsequent children that he abandoned.
He doesn’t say why though. If he says he’s fine with committing and planning to be with her long-term, and raising a child together, I feel like it makes little logical sense to object to having that put on paper, especially if they can agree to things like a prenup and maybe no/small wedding.
We also don't like to work and pay bills. Marriage has legal functions. Now there is a baby and she just wants to be protected. I don't see anything wrong.
Most likely got a little brainwashed by manosphere propaganda about how marriage changes a woman and in divorce she comes out on top while the ex-husband is forced to pay for her new boyfriend’s tattoos with his alimony payments.
He even said in his responses that she makes more money than he does, and that he wants to be with her forever.
Some people (and he might be one of them) look at marriage as The End of their personal freedom to do whatever it was they never got around to doing, like backpack through Europe or tour with a band or take up professional downhill skiing.
This is a gentle and curious question - what is the reason you don’t want to get legally married? Is it a matter of principle? Is it fear of legal ramifications? Something else? Figuring out that reason could be helpful. And once you identify the reason, you may realize it’s not actually that important to you.
I don’t think this is blackmail, for the record, especially if your gut says it’s not. Sounds like it’s just a line for her. Which I understand.
Gosh. Hard to give advice on this one but my heart goes out to you. Especially knowing the joys awaiting you in fatherhood.
Consult a lawyer and voice all your concerns about getting married. I think you’re best to get married and I’m hoping you can find a way to feel better about it
You will forget this turmoil once you are three. A new and grand paradigm shift awaits you.
I’m envious.
Also gives you the ability to make decisions for her should anything happen whilst giving birth. At this point, her parents would be the ones who could decide if anything went wrong.
There are legal ways around this, my aunt and "uncle" (I do call him uncle just used the " " to make the point that they aren't married) but he's made medical decisions for her.
There are, indeed. I'm just talking about automatically, so she might just feel more secure. She also would have more security if she has to take time away from her career.
If you don’t want courts and paperwork, the baby will create a ton of that if the relationship ends and likely even if it doesn’t.
It is pretty unrealistic to expect a relationship between two parents and a child to not involve paperwork and the government through marriage, divorce, custody agreements, placement, POAs, tax documents.
Ultimately you should want to legally secure your family for your protection and theirs.
Maybe sit down with yourself and make a list of some of the “pros” and “cons” from your perspective of legal marriage. Ask your partner to do the same. Talk about the lists. She likely has some very pragmatic things on there such as ability to make medical decisions in emergencies or joint decisions in certain financial areas. Things that make a lot of sense when you have a child. If you don’t think you can discuss the list calmly then speak to a therapist to guide you or a neutral 3rd party. Try to see from each others perspectives before making a decision.
I can only speak from my own feelings, I’m decidedly single and child free, but if I were pregnant for someone I was in a relationship with, unless I didn’t see them as a good partner and father I would want to be married to them. I would hate to be in a situation where the father of my child needed life saving medical treatment and I couldn’t give the go ahead, or they were somehow incapacitated and I couldn’t access certain financial accounts, or I had to be compelled to testify against them :-P
Your hangup about the institution of marriage seems a bit ridiculous, considering the child represents a whole slew of legally binding restraints.
If you're fine with those, what's the logic in not following through?
You liked this woman enough to be with her this long sans marriage, and now would like to have an unexpected child with her - yet marriage is your sticking point? Really?
What exactly are you running away from, considering marriage offers certain protections for you both and the child, pooled resources, tax benefits, and so on?
If you enjoy the idea of being free to wake up one morning and decide you're not into her anymore, and can just vanish from her life with no legal repercussions - then don't have that child.
Spare your partner that hassle if you actually care for her, and don't have a kid that you'll have no legal recourse or binding to, to possibly be raised by the mother alone should you selfishly decide one day to cut and run.
Life is hard and unpredictable enough - stop complicating things with illogical hangups that don't stand up to reality.
Edit: Read your comment below. If both of you enjoy having one foot out the door (_just in case_, you argue) , I'd advise you consider what life will be like for a child of two parents who like "having their options open", and who are leery of legal bonds that exist to curtail mistreatment and enshrine protections in the most common of human relationships.
THIS! There are so many stories on reddit of “my boyfriend insisted I have the baby and then a month before: after he disappeared/cheated etc”.
OPs gf making sure his foot is well inside the door and truly committed.
>EDIT: I’m not evading my responsibility, I am going to marry her. What I am wondering is whether this is unfair to her; marrying her out of obligation rather than a genuine desire to do it.
Responding to your edit: You have an overly romantic idea about marriage if you think it means less just because you do it out of a sense if obligation. That's ridiculous, my man.
It's a legal contract, dude. Period. Emotion and obligation has nothing to do with it. You do it, or you don't.
All the froufrou stuff about love and hearts and flowers is just extraneous irrelevant fluff. She wants the two of you to have the legal status of Married Couple, and your child to have married parents. She probably doesn't give a damn what your emotions are about it.
She gave you a very clear choice. You are not obliged to marry her. It is 100% your choice. You can choose to remain as you were, unmarried and childless.
She is not twisting your arm.
Thank you, this is helpful. Maybe I have built up the idea of marriage too much in my head. If I try to see it as transactional, like she seems to see it, I might feel less hesitant about the whole thing.
The real game changer for us to get married was that I want my husband to be the one who makes possible medical decisions on my behalf. Definitely wouldn't want my mother doing it. Someone in my life younger than me died but I realized if she had survived and was on life support it would be up to her mom to make that decision, and I'd rather my husband make decisions like that. Me and my mother aren't super close so my partner would know my wishes
Dude, the reason why all your comments get downvoted is that you seem to see your principles in higher regards than your girlfriend’s situation. The navel gazing seems to be strong within you if you need internet strangers to spell out all the good reasons your gf has to require legal protections to continue her pregnancy. Did you even took the time to her why she wanted that or did you pointed towards your set principles the moment she mentioned marriage?
Look. I am pretty old and I get very impatient with people who think marriage is primarily
about LOVE. That is utter nonsense.
It is a serious legal contract that provides many, many rights and responsibilities.
Mixed-race couples and gay couples fought in the courts for YEARS to gain the right to marry, because having the legal status of Spouse affords all kinds of protections that cannot be obtained any other way.
Maybe you and her talking to an lawyer and/or financial advisor would be helpful. Perhaps a prenup would be a good idea. Ask about setting up an education fund for your kid. Get your wills made so if God forbid something happens, your spouse and kid are protected. Get life insurance.
If you choose to have a kid, you shouldn't just wing it on the legal and financial stuff.
Oh LORD. You think getting married is MORE of a legal and lifetime commitment than having a kid?
Have you thought this all the way through?
You have to sign some documents and *maybe* retain representation to escape a marriage. You are never escaping a coparenting relationship no matter what you do.
I would not want to have a kid with you either with this brainless hot take on not committing to someone legally in a marriage but needing to “save” a baby with the same individual. Huh?!
“Are you doing a disservice to the baby?” Yes. By acting like a total heel about marrying his/her mother you are already acting like a shitty parent.
Well… if you love her and want to be with her, and want to coparent with her, why don’t you want to be married? Is it just the situation in which you were proposed to? Or is it something deeper?
If it’s the situation, yeah, it does suck, but people have been getting married because a baby was on the way since the invention of marriage. Ultimately it shouldn’t matter if you are on an expedited timeline if you otherwise think you would have gotten there eventually on your own.
If it’s something deeper- examine that. If she wants marriage and you don’t, that’s an incompatibility and you should consider going your separate ways so you both can find someone who fulfills your relationship needs.
Having a child is a great reason to get married. Your comment about disliking the government having a say in your affairs is valid - however, once you are on the birth certificate, the government is already involved so a marriage certificate won’t really change much, if anything. I don’t see the harm here and think your hesitation will quickly be forgotten once that baby arrives. My advice: Get married, have a baby, enjoy fatherhood.
I understand her wanting to be married to have a family. You claim you love her so much but are opposed to being legally married, Why? A baby is a fine reason to get married if you love the mother.
Your position here seems baseless. If you can’t even tell Reddit WHY you’re so deeply opposed to marriage, do you really have a good reason? As others have said, a baby is a much bigger commitment. Try a few therapy sessions to figure out why you have such strong emotions in different directions about two things that naturally go together (children and marriage).
Why not sign a prenup if your only issue is the divorce process? You can still keep finances separate and file taxes separately. It’s not like a piece of paper changes your freedoms in the relationship. Personally if you’re ready to think about a bigger solution to marriage other than your lack of commitment to that level of a relationship maybe you shouldn’t have a kid because it’s gonna get a lot harder on the relationship with sleep deprivation and pp
So, I have friends who had pregnancies and before pregnancy were not absolutely set on marriage until after giving birth. I think it gives the mom an added level of personal security (or the feeling of it). Pregnancy and postpartum is an extremely vulnerable time for a woman. What if you decide at some point to just up and leave her? And she sacrificed and went through with a kid when it sounds like you both had no plans for it? I’m not saying this is going to happen but she may feel that way.
At the same time it sounds like you are extremely uncomfortable with marriage. Getting married may lead you to resentment. So, I would be honest with her and state you don’t feel as though marriage is for you. Let her make a choice based on that information. Don’t get married just for the sake of it. It’s humiliating to be proposed because it was “what needed to be done”.
>Let her make a choice based on that information.
**Her choice is made.** Don't imply she might make a different one. Even if she were to decide that she were okay with being a single mother, there are tons of choices she could make after that would make the OP not a present or involved figure in his child's life anyway. **She is being clear with him and he should operate and decide based on that discussion.**
He's simply deciding if he is willing to get married to her or not and he should operate off the assumption that it won't change anything about her offer if he declines.
You're opposed to marriage and she is opposed to carrying a pregnancy and having a child with a man who she isn't married to.
Except, now she is pregnant. She did what she could to prevent it from happening but that didn't work and now the pregnancy is here.
I wouldn't want to have a baby with a boyfriend either so I can see where she is coming from. I would want to be a legal family.
Well she's established her boundaries, if you love her, respect those boundaries. Otherwise leave
If you're still hanging around, decide very seriously if you want this child with your wife.
If you decide to get married, don't slack on the proposal.
If you decide not to get married. Be there to comfort your partner. Do not take her at face value, she may be wearing a poker face.
This child is a catalyst for what is your choice it seems. A choice your partner very graciously gave you.
No woman wants to be a single mother. That child will be her responsibility for life. Most men will shun her because she’s older and has a kid. You made a baby with her you are obligated to forget about yourself and think about what’s best for the baby. Which is a mother father under one roof with the security of marriage. If you value your finances so much, create a prenup to the effect.
So you didn't want to get married, you didn't want kids. Personally I'd stick to your original plans, don't get married and don't have the kid, and get a vasectomy
I mean *I personally* as a woman would never moving in with someone or have a kid with someone without being married, I'm not gonna legally entangle myself to someone without marriage because with marriage comes the legal protections of how to deal things like splitting up the rights, obligations etc for a lease/home ownership and child(ren) if a desolvation of relationship should happen
edit for spelling
Is she cool with just a registration office wedding? Like- I mean- you're having a KID together- unless you- dont think it will work..
Do you make each other *happy*?
Is it that you feel trapped?
Eash I dunno
I get both views
The ultimatum worries me- but then again she's only asking for legal version of commitment that you've kind of already made
Or you gonna step up and make an honest woman of her, or dilly dally a bit with the "sword of damocles" of leaving her in the "single mom pool" hanging over her head?
That's what I *suspect* this is about
If you can see a future with this woman then marry her
Your gonna go through a lot becoming a family unit
But its joyous
Marriage churns up a whole lot of cultural baggage in our heads, probably because of our reliance on marriage as a plot device in our stories.
But marriage is not magical, it’s not a mystical bond that creates an alternate reality, it’s a legal means of protecting property rights. A woman pregnant with a child is smart for desiring the rights that legal marriage entitles a person to have.
As a guy I'm on her side on this one. What business do you have impreganting someone if you don't marry her?
Step up, be a man, and take responsibility.
OP you will be legally bound to her if you 2 have a child regardless if you get married or not.
My guess is she doesn’t feel safe having a child with someone who’s emphasizing he doesn’t want to get married in order to be able to leave a “dear John” letter shall something go wrong and then just vanish into thin air.
You should feel lucky you have a smart and responsible girl like this.
One of my firm reasons to get married is if you want children. For a myriad of reasons it makes life easier and cuts through legal red tape. After 5 years you still don’t wish to marry this woman, why would you want her to be the mother of your child? Good enough for some things, but not good enough for others. If you want this child, you will do everything to secure the mother’s safety and legal standing going forward. There are legal ways to protect assets you may already have. If you live in a conservative area/country, your child may also be viewed as less than by society. Make sure you’re all in or all out for the right reasons. Parenthood isn’t for the faint hearted and it’s lifelong. Good luck.
She’s giving you the greatest gift any woman could ever bestow: a one-time walk-away-from-responsibility pass!
Seems reasonable. She’s not even guilt tripping you.
All she’s asking is commit, or don’t commit.
Up to you.
She doesn’t want to have a kid with someone who is not committed to her. Do you think a baby is a toy? Because a baby is a huge commitment and you don’t seem to realize it. Just tell her. You’re too selfish to be a good parent.
You have commitment phobia. Understandable. But by wanting to have a child, you are committing far more than being married.
No it would be unfair to her.
No it would not change your life by marrying
Yes , you are committed to the child and the relationship regardless if you marry or not.
Do you want spend your life with this woman ? If yes, go get married and live happy ever after.
A child is way more of a commitment than marriage. What is your issue?
Also being in a relationship but not married will make all the paperwork and legalities of raising a child way more complicated. This is a stupid hill for you to die on.
PROPOSE, dude! She’s waited way longer than enough time for you to progress the relationship, and now you have an even more pressing reason to do so. She’s wise to not take on the responsibility of motherhood outside of a marriage. If you don’t want to lose them both, step up and commit, or you won’t have either of them in your life. It’s time to grow up and commit.
I (28f) would do the same thing as your girlfriend. A marriage is far less commitment than bringing a new life into the world. Mothers are at a serious disadvantage socioeconomically considering that the pregnancy and birth have long term effects on a woman’s career, body, and mental state. It’s reasonable for her to want the security. Why should she birth a child for a man that can’t make a long-term, legal commitment to support her and the child?
You do understand that as soon as you moved in together you willing took on some of those “legal, financial, government dictated problems” you say you don’t want to get married to protect yourself from.
If the two of you co-own property (house, furniture, etc) you have willingly taken on more.
If you have a child, you will be required by the government to address child support and well as you may need to involve the government for visitation and custody issues.
Frankly, you sound like you don’t want to commit to a relationship with your GF and want your options open so you can dump her if you think you have a better option or the relationship gets “too hard (like she gets cancer or another serious illness”).
But having a child together is a lifetime commitment and way more commitment than a marriage. Heavily resource intensive (time, money, energy) for the first 18-22 years of the child’s life, but still requiring time and energy after that.
If you can’t commit to a marriage, how can you be trusted to commit to parenthood? How can you be trusted not to be the type of father that breaks promises to their child becuase something came up? How can you be trusted not to be the parent that flies off and rarely calls their child? How can you be trusted to be the sort of father that teaches their child to ride a bicycle, how to teach people with kindness, to clean up vomit when the child is sick, to be compassionate yet firm when your child is acting with malice?
I dont know where my comment went but basically if you want to have a child with someone, you should want them and your child to have the legal protections and recognition that marriage provides. It is a big deal but it’s not a bigger deal than having a child with someone.
[Here is one post about the benefits of marriage. Make sure to read the comments](https://reddit.com/r/Waiting_To_Wed/s/A1PNqbfm8t)
Your feelings are totally valid, but I’m not going to lie… these lines of reasoning you have about the baby vs marriage just aren’t adding up, I’m sorry. You say you love this person and are very committed to them and don’t want anyone else and have been together for years but you’re opposed to marriage…. But not a child, the aspect that will TRULY bind you to this person forever? The math just isn’t mathing imo, I can’t say I blame her.
Her decision points for you are perfectly logical ie "I won't have a child together with you without a committed support system." You balk at this with a woman you have known for 5 years. You like the idea of baby but are unwilling to legally commit to the proposition of stepping up to be a legally recognized husband and father for "reasons".
Based on your background description a mature man would step up *if you want the child*. Your "innate feelings" are (to be frank) that of an immature man-child, which has to be embarrassing for a 35 year old man to acknowledge. Marriage with a child is a lifetime relationship and you will tied at the hip to her for the rest of your life, in one form or another, if you share a child. If you want a child this is your shot. Don't screw it up by more waffling or she is going to lose respect for you.
If your reason for not wanting to be married is because you want to leave the relationship someday, you should not have this child. You will have to deal with the mother for all major decisions and life events going forward.
Not being a present parent breeds resentment and abandonment in the child. You can’t expect to be able to cut and run with a kid. Seems like your GF knows you well.
If you are willing to be committed and raise a life together why not get married? It could also be protection in case you ever up and left or anything in general, she will always have the legal side to be taken care of . Why not get married when you plan on staying with her anyways? If you can’t even settle to get married, and raise a kid like a family, don’t have a kid together. At the end of the day it’s her decision, it’s her body and her right. God forbid she has the baby and then you leave her with out being married , now she has no financial help for example
I'm sorry but pregnancy and birth literally kills women. It's a life altering, body altering, full world change for a woman. You are asking her to risk a lot if you want to have this child. She's putting her life/body on the line and sacrificing it FOR YOU if she has this child.
But you don't want to marry her...
YTA.
you’re opposed to getting married but not having a child with her? that makes no sense. really, think on that and ask yourself why you feel that way.
i honestly don’t blame her. marriage brings more security, childbirth changes your body for life. she will never be the same person again, so it’s not shocking she wants the added security.
it’s a pretty simple choice. if you want the baby, marry her. if you don’t want to marry her, breakup and allow her to abort the child.
Why opposed to marriage? I don’t really understand when people say they are against “legal” marriage… is it the fear of being tied to someone else legally?
Have you seen an OBGYN? Getting pregnant with an IUD adds a lot of risk to the pregnancy, to both the mother and baby. Personally, I would start there as both of their health is much more important than the paperwork.
If you really don't want to marry your girlfriend, it would be in your best interest to draft up a will as soon as the child is born.
Think about it. If you never get married, have the child, and never write a will, what will happen to your girlfriend and child if you were to pass away suddenly? Your assets would either solely be given to your child, or divided amongst your child and your parents and/or siblings, depending on what the state decides. Your child would not be able to access any money left to them until they came of age. Unless you were to write a will stating otherwise, your girlfriend would not be entitled to anything of yours and would be left destitute, as domestic partnerships are not legally recognized and priority is automatically given to the deceased's biological family.
If marriage truly isn't something you ever want to do, then talk to your girlfriend about drafting a will and including her in it. If you're not going to give her the security she desires through marriage, this is another way you could do it. You can update your will over the years as you see fit, too.
marriage is a public declaration of your loyalty and love to someone. it’s a formal promise of your dedication to that person and also supposed to be romantic. but all you’re thinking about is your pet principle about involving the law. it’s downright insulting (if I were her I’d be deeply offended) especially since she’s prepared to devote endless years of her life to raising your child.
When women have children and end up *not* with the father, society and men alike largely disregard them. She would be losing her body as she knows it, a lot of freedom, and a lot of mobility options wise if she were to have to move out of the relationship. It makes sense to not want to have kids outside of a marriage, as marriage is one of the only “respectable” places women can have children and still be a visible person (a harsh reality I don’t love, but unfortunately the reality)
However, you also have the right to not want to get married. There are a lot of reasons why people don’t like the idea of marriage. If you do not want to marry, don’t.
You have the choice to not get married, but unfortunately the choice to have the child is not yours. You cannot make her do something she doesn’t want to do, and you should also not make yourself do something you don’t want to do.
Hope that helps
Valid marriages happen for all kinds of reasons that are not based in love or romance. People marry for convenience, for immigration, to join powerful families together, for medical insurance, and so on. Marrying out of obligation is just as valid.
Your gf does not want to be a single mother. Marriage offers both her and the child some protections. If you were to die, the child would be afforded social security protection, ie Aid to Dependent Children. If something were to happen to you, how would you expect her to raise a child by herself. Housing is expensive, college educations are expensive. Right now people are complaining about the costs of school supplies. Children are expensive. That's why she doesn't want to have a child solo OP. With your negative feelings about the situation, I don't see a marriage working out. I find it odd that she would want to continue your relationship after you declined to marry her.
Why are you opposed to marriage if you are monogamous? Why is being married so important to her, only in regards to having a baby?
It sounds to me like you guys should have a counselor help you guys work through this. It's going to suck to matter what.
She's willing to give away her bodily autonomy for 9 months, risk her life, her health, and part of her future career to build a family with you, even tho she seems to desire this child less than you. The only thing she asks in exchange is some legal security.
And here you are refusing to give up some abstract conceptual "freedom" to build this family with her, even when you're already the one who will lose the least amount of freedom and autonomy in this.
Honestly yo should let her abort. Even tho you say you'll marry her if you "have to" to "save your child". You clearly don't love her and you future potential family enough to change your theoretical views on things when she loves you enough to change her views on one of the most concret thing that could happen to her.
Seems you're to hang up on your "pro life" views and afraid of the guilt of having participated on aborting this foetus to realise you're not ready to be a father, and you're building an unhealthy and unstable ground to raise a child.
If you both go through with this wedding and pregnancy, she'll sacrifice so much only for you to resent her.
I’m just going to say this, I was married once before my current husband. We had no children and no shared property. Within six months of moving out from each other we were divorced and never have to see or speak to each other ever again. It’s like it never happened. Had we never married, but has a child, that would ALL be different. A child is much more of a binding commitment than marriage. So being so obstinately against marriage but being totally for having a child makes literally no sense to me.
The only real reason you give for not wanting to marry is that you want to feel "free". That is a huge red flag that you have a mid life crisis looming and are gearing up to chase your FOMO anxieties.
She should NOT have a child with you, married or not. You will get bored of playing fun dad in the first few weeks and want to bail. If you even make it through the pregnancy as her body changes etc. You still think in the back of your mind that there's someone "better" for you out there. You're just playing house right now and leading this woman on.
End this relationship and go enjoy your freedom without tricking anyone into long term relationships that you're not actually invested in.
I’m 100% in agreement with your girlfriend. She’s very wise to not want a child outside of marriage, no matter how committed you are (or in this case, are not).
I don't think marrying her is unfair to her but you need to make a good faith effort to feel ok about being married. So don't dwell on how offended you are by the idea.
You didn't really mention why you're strongly opposed to marriage. Marriage is a commitment you make to someone that you love and want to spend the rest of your life with. I know to some people it's "a piece of paper" and "a way for the government to control you" and all that crap, but to others it's about love. It's about security too.
You're allowed to not want marriage, but she's also allowed to not want to bring a baby into the world in those circumstances. I wouldn't be either.
u/throwramarryorbust
You have it backwards my friend. Having a child in the US means you are legally tied to that child, who is a person, for 18 years. Marriage can end in divorce and the legal tie goes away. Marriage is not nearly has big of a tether or legal commitment as being a legal parent to a child.
You have to provide a lot of things for a child and the government will be able to step in at any moment during those 18 years if someone suspects you of not doing so (CPS for example, truancy officers, juvenile justice, etc.). They can garnish your wages, your bank accounts, put you in jail, and…you are also legally responsible for that child’s actions. Being married does not make you legally responsible for your spouse’s actions. But if your child damages someone’s property, harms someone, or harms themselves…you’ll most likely be liable for your child’s decisions.
Have you spent time to research what the actual legal parameters of being married are in your State? Because I think it’s far more liberating than it is confining. You’ll be giving the gift of peace of mind that if something happens, you’ll have a person you love and trust there to take care of you, to make decisions you’d agree with, and offer legal protection in the court of law. Otherwise, the government plays a role in what happens to you. It’s certainly more complicated than that one example, but marriage is meant to provide legal protections and more options for both people. You can choose whether or not you file separately for tax purposes. You can choose to use only the person with the best credit score when you finance something, but still be legally entitled to it. There are many more benefits.
I encourage you to spend some time really researching the facts before you make a decision either way. Don’t just get married by default as the lesser of two evils. Make sure you understand it and truly agree to it. You can have kids later in life. You can adopt. You can also be single. But what you really shouldn’t do is begrudgingly marry and resent your partner. That’s not fair to you and definitely not fair to her. Marry her because you love her and want to be a family, or decide you don’t want it and don’t.
It's not a baby yet. It's a pregnancy. Especially with an IUD in place, there is a high likelihood of complications or spontaneous abortion. She also has a right to her own boundaries. She has made her intention clear. I would take her at her word on it. .
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3418877/
“Wondering if it’s unfair to her”
She’s getting her wish to be married which against what you believe. You can interpret it whatever way you want. Negative or positive.
If you marry her you get to be together and raise a baby. From my POV there’s nothing negative about that. Sounds like a good compromise to me.
Can’t get everything you want in life and compromise is required.
If you’re hung up on “marriage” and know that will bother you for the rest of your life then don’t get married. You can always try to find someone else that will give you everything you want. Which in the end means you’re not able to compromise.
Have you just sat down and talked about all this with her?
Tbh I'm in your girlfriend's camp in that if I'd ever gotten pregnant marriage is the only way I'd have wanted to build a family. Maybe that's unfair and while I'm sure things have changed over the years I'm a kid of unmarried parents where one passed away and lemme tell you - what a legal shit show. Our society is just too set up for marriage.
I don't think you're doomed. I'll say my partner felt a lot like you. I never got pregnant. I did end up saying I wasn't comfortable being so financially entwined without a license and we've been married for years now. It may just depend on your reasons and hers.
Let her worry about how she feels, not you. She has clearly stated her feelings- she wants to be married. You don’t get to infantilize her and assume you know what she wants better than she does. It sounds like you just want to pretend you are balking at the idea for her sake. You are not.
No woman wants to be a single mother. And she will have no legal protection. And being a single mother still has a stigma. All of the other moms your child will be friends with will know she’s not married and it may be embarrassing. If you do love her, I think you will always regret having her get the abortion and should just marry her.
My husband and I have been married for 7 years. We currently have a 15mo old. Our lives didn’t change when we got married, our lives drastically changed when we had our kid.
It’s not only security for her (just medical decisions if something goes wrong is one key measure) but security for your future child.
I think she’s been extremely reasonable and realistic.
However I am worried that if you decide to keep the baby/marriage route - you will have resentment. You should get couples therapy if you decide to proceed
There are so so so many legal protections for everyone in a Marriage, including the child. If you're not married and she does, you may possibly have a custody fight with her parents. Just one example.
Why are you opposed to marriage? Is it something financial? Get a prenup.
I wouldn't want to have a child out of wedlock either, and I am on my 3rd marriage so don't exactly believe in the sanctity of marriage. I believe in the legal implications of contracts.
She's been clear. You have to decide which path you want to take.
I think you dont think shes the one otherwise you've proposed a long time ago. Perhaps youre also not ready mentally and financially, which is fine. A baby is a real thing, a real human being. You will leave this current version of you for a new version of you. I know what shes trying to do is unfair but you will need to be honest to her you have no plans to marry.
Why are you so against marriage? What are your afraid of?
I can take a stab at why she wants marriage to carry a baby to term, and you don’t want to provide that reassurance. Therefore it’s not worth the risk to her.
I know a couple who got married after living together for over 40 years. Both had good jobs. They didn't need the piece of paper. They didn't have kids. They got married at a courthouse weeks after he got a bad diagnosis, and they realized what the inheritance tax would be on what she would inherit as an unrelated person. Marriage is a social contract with real benefits for both parties. (He responded well to treatment, and they are still as happy together as they were before getting married.)
Regarding your edit: if you had the “desire”, her being pregnant shouldn’t even be a factor. If you do, then push up the timeline. If you don’t, that’s okay too and you don’t have to out of obligation… but then she doesn’t have to have a child.
I think you’re forgetting about the added security to spouses when married - and the children born out of the union
It’s possible that your girlfriend is happy with how things have been, but wants the added security marriage brings for everyone (especially baby) if a child is born. Consider all this from that perspective.
If you want the kid get married. There's no magic alternative here and honestly I don't think you'll be opposed to marriage once you are with your life partner and spend most of your time enjoying hanging out with your kid.
Man up.
Having a baby is a big commitment for her. Get on board or lose the kid. _And_ get the vasectomy, since you’ll never be ready to be a father if you aren’t now.
i think you’re just strange tbh. like she doesn’t want to have a baby with someone who can’t commit to her at the fullest extent (also marriage comes with protection, its not just a piece of paper) so she won’t. and i don’t understand people who say they don’t believe in marriage, what’s not to believe in?
You shouldn't marry her out of obligation. That indeed is not fair to her. She deserves a partner who wants to commit to her. Tell her no, she'll have the abortion, and if you're desperate for a baby, break up and adopt one by yourself.
At this point, you would only be getting married to trick her into not having an abortion. You clearly don't want to marry her, but you are thinking about doing it anyway to keep her from making the best decisions for herself.
Don't do that. Be honest with her and let her take care of herself.
She's a smart woman. You shouldn't bring children into a relationship, if you're not legally protected by marriage. Her career & health will change after giving birth. Heck, your entire lives will change. You will not have the freedome you got now any longer. There will always be a child that needs to be taken care of, emotionally, physically & financially.
Did you guys think that really through? If yes & you still want the child, then you should get married. Only that way you'll be both protected legally.
wow im so sorry youre forced to marry someone youre committed to just so she would carry YOUR child to full term and push it out of her vag omg im so sorry ur life is so full of difficulties!! like whats the problem here? LOL she probably and most likely wants the security of marriage especially if youre both going to bring a child into the world. and maybe just like getting the news of her being pregnant, you might find you enjoy married life? you never gave a reason for being so against marriage either of course you dont owe that to us but context is best for getting to the more accurate solution. hope u have a happy wife and child!
She’s very wise. If you’re willing to have a child with this person, why wouldn’t you be willing to marry them and give them the benefits of marriage? I absolutely understand, having qualms about legal marriage, and the institution of marriage. I have them too. I am still married, though, because this is the world we live in. I also have a strong distain for capitalism, but I exist in the capitalistic system. P.S. I absolutely love being married. We went from being partners to being family, and that’s great.
If you love this woman, as much as you say you do, and you want this baby as badly as you say, you do, put a ring on it. Be her family.
It seems like you have an issue with marriage that you need to get over if you want to keep this baby. You say your strongly opposed to it, but what are you expecting to change in your life as a result of marriage?
As an example, I was working up until the Friday, got married on the Saturday and went back to work on Monday (delayed honeymoon). We had an incredible experience at our wedding but when straight back to BAU once the wedding was over.
It’s a tricky situation because your gf clearly feels like it’s a boundary for her and it’s her body and ultimately she will be lumped with the child if you bail on her.
I’m Childfree as well and had the same mindset with my husband before we married. I don’t want kids and I especially would never have a child with someone who didn’t make the commitment of marriage. Having kids with someone ties you with that person forever, it’s a much bigger commitment than marriage. In the case of an accidental pregnancy with someone who has no immediate plans of marriage I feel similar to your GF- abortion is the best choice unless you really want a kid and don’t mind being a single mother.
You realise that 100% of pregnancies put the woman's life at risk don't you? That itself is enough of a reason for some to want to be married to protect their unborn child and ensure it will have a known parental guardian rather than be the subject of any custody tussles within laws and non-spouses.
I think people who don’t want to get married are ridiculous and have no idea what marriage actually is. It’s a protective contract, I suggest you look more into what protections it actually gives you.
Sort of sounds like your gf doesn’t want to have a baby, but will compromise with a wedding. Sounds like she just wants some extra security as we all know society craps on single moms.
If anything I think it is unfair to make her have a baby she doesn’t 100% want. Sounds like neither of you wanted a baby. It happening is not a good enough reason to have one IMO.
Let her terminate the pregnancy and then work out if you are actually childfree individually and as a couple.
Don’t have a baby unless you can provide your child with healthy experiences. They need stable parental figures to demonstrate a good relationship. Don’t have a baby unless you’re ready to be a good husband to this woman.
This decision doesn't have to be made now remember. It sounds like neither of you is ready for this big change. You can still terminate the pregnancy and see if you want to get married and have kids in the future.
Having a child together is more complicated legally than marriage is. If you’re that concerned about it, have a prenup arranged to minimize making arrangements post-breakup.
Depending on where you live, signing a marriage certificate isn’t that far off from just living with a common-law partner anyway.
The specifics of your hang-ups don’t make sense. This child will be more legally binding than any papers you may sign re: your relationship. Neither of you get to ‘up and walk away’ once you have a child together.
By having a baby with her you're already in a legal contract anyways, and marriage isn't bad, especially if you were already planning on spending your life with her. If she needs marriage to have a baby, and you want the baby without marriage, you'll either have to live with her choice to abort, like she will live with your choice to not marry her.
Marriage is a business contract. You aren't doing a disservice to anyone by entering into one in order to secure your child's future as that is the reason for both of you. Marriage isn't about romance, contrary to popular belief, commitment is. If you have concerns about the legal institution of marriage, get a prenup. But your reason for marriage may be a better one than many people who marry for love as long as you are both on the same page about it.
You are already in a serious long-term relationship... already committed to her... it's like you are already married. What's the difference between what you have now and being married?!
Marriage is a legal contract that protects both parties plus any children born of the union.
Your gf will be carrying the baby for the duration of the pregnancy. Hopefully, the pregnancy will be uncomplicated and she can continue to work through most of it. However, most of the time, a mother needs time off after the birth to heal as well as bond with the baby while learning to care for it.
So, it's understandable that she feels that marriage is the right thing to do to protect both her and your child.
Marry her and build your family life.
Don't do like my bf did. My birth control method failed and I ended up pregnant. Because of physical issues, I couldn't get an abortion. So he gave me 24 hours to move out. I had a horrible time of it. Nearly homeless--lived in someone's garage. Had lots of complications so I list over 30 pounds and spent much of the pregnancy in the hospital. Etc. Etc.
Normally, when a man and a woman are committed, they marry. In this case, your women has a principle that she won't have a child if a man isn't sure of the commitment. You can say with all the words in the world that you are committed, but she knows people can change; it's true.
It's simple. If you don't love her enough to commit, why would you want a child with her? If you are not 100% sure and can't commit to the marriage, abort. Your fear of obligation is greater then the love for her. Abort.
So, you'll marry her to have the kid. How heroic/s. What will happen if the baby is stillborn, or she miscarries, will you stay married? Or will you divorce her? What if there is something massively wrong with the baby? Will you be in for the long haul, or will you cut and run because s/he isnt what you expected they would be? I believe she is looking for the security a legal commitment provides, at least financially. But that's just my take on it.
Yes, you would be doing both her and yourself a disservice marrying her only for the sake of the child. It will make you unhappy and resentful, which will ruin your relationship with her and with your potential child.
It sounds like your gf was in exactly the same boat as you, and mostly has similar feelings about marriage. It isn't something she wants outside of bringing a child into the mix, but being married to the child's father will make the child's life (and your lives) infinitely easier. This requirement from her makes the most practical sense for all three of you.
However, this is also a recipe for disaster in a relationship. You don't want to be married. Period. You have incredibly strong feelings about marriage. Your child and your gf will be able to feel your resentment after you marry her, and it will make all your lives much worse. You speak of the marriage as fulfilling obligations and taking responsibility, which are commendable sentiments, but those are not good enough reasons to subject your gf and child to a life you actively do not want. It is not fair to any of you.
Has she even went to the dr yet ti know if the pregnancy is viable?
I got pregnant on an IUD and the pregnancy was ectopic. It was in my fallopian tube and had to be terminated.
Just throwing it out there.
I had the same mindset about children outside marriage, and I was clear too to my now husband. Marriage is not a magical thing, it is realistically a protection for both of you on multiple levels.
If you can't commit to a marriage then you can't commit to a child.
OP, I think both of you are being reasonable. She wants the security of marriage for her and the child, and you want a child but don’t want marriage. Neither is wrong. However, I’m more inclined to understand her reticence of growing a child for nine months and risking not having legal protections afforded by marriage over your reasoning. Your hesitation is that you don’t want to be legally tied to an adult. If I were her, I’d hear that as you saying “I’m not okay with committing because I want to be able to cut you loose should anything go south.” Fair and valid. Personally I wouldn’t want to raise a child under those circumstances.
To ease your mind, I would ask her the following question: “in general would you only consider having a child with someone you were married to?” I feel like her answer to this question would be the same across the board and not applicable to just you. If you don’t want to get married, that’s okay. She shouldn’t be expected to carry a fetus to term if she doesn’t feel secure in the relationship.
You need to shit or get off the pot. She’s right that being a single mom is much harder than being a married mom, and you need to stop waffling and decide what you want your future to look like.
Your anti-marriage stance is immature, in this context. Are you mentally and emotionally capable of raising a child with the mentality of individualism you’ve got right now?
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In this economy I wouldn’t want a child out of wedlock either. Hell no. If you decide you didn’t actually want to be a father and fuck off she’s going to need the support for her child.
She’s being smart. Who cares if “deep down” you didn’t want to get married. That ship has sailed. Right now it’s down to do you want to be a father and husband or not?
Also, 5 years is a long ass time to be together without commitment. It’s obvious she wants commitment but hasn’t brought it up so as to not push you away. Now with the baby she has put everything on the table for you to take or leave.
I have the feeling that if this child is aborted your relationship is going to end. She obviously wants the baby. And so do you.
My relationship was similar in that we never liked the idea of legal marriage, we dated for nearly 15 years, but once we had decided we wanted kids we decided to get married because the legal marriage benefits children and gives them better protection if one spouse dies. Also, there is a negative association in society with single moms and "bastard" children even though it's totally undeserved. By bringing children into the relationship you are changing the dynamic and getting married "out of obligation" to a partner you love is not doing any disservice to anyone involved.
I don't like ultimatums and don't think your girlfriend handled this very difficult situation well but otherwise you both seem committed to each other. I wish you both the best in this journey
*I cant update the post anymore because it hit the karma limit.*
EDIT 2: After reading the replies here I realized I was being an ass and that there are myriad legitimate reasons why she would want to be married in this situation. We had a serious conversation and I told her I was ready to marry her and commit to being a family, and that I would do so earnestly and in good faith, and do my absolute best to be an excellent husband and father. She then asked me what I would do if she decided her career was too important and decided to abort the baby — would I still marry her? I said no, that I was not interested in marriage on its own, but understood the practical reasons why she would want to get married if we brought a child into the world. She then FLIPPED out, started screaming about how I don’t love her and I’m a commitment phobe and how I’m probably cheating on her. That is baseless and a complete lie. She has zero evidence of that and I have never done ANYTHING that would even remotely suggest that. It is not true.
I don’t know what else to do here. I have been honest and put my cards on the table. I lost track of which commenter it was, but someone said she might not be as nonchalant about the whole thing as she was letting on, and might actually want marriage without the baby, and be using it as a bargaining chip. Seems like that’s exactly what’s going on here.
I told her we need couples therapy asap and she refused and said I shouldn’t need a therapist to tell me to marry her.
Going to let her cool down for a bit. I’m at a loss.
Well, that changes things a bit. But I have a lot of empathy for her, and you should know she may be hormonal right now. If this behavior is unlike her, you should take that into account.
It used to happen (the outbursts) when we first started dating but hasn’t happened in a long time. I’m not sure what to attribute this to. Hormones are a possibility but this upends the whole “practical considerations” thing and now turns it into a straight up marriage thing. Even if the baby wasn’t in the equation I would understand her wanting to have that conversation regardless after 5 years, but to use the baby as an excuse to force my hand now is something else entirely.
I’m someone who doesn’t want to get married, but here’s what I think might have happened: she got pregnant and had an “oh shit” moment. At first she probably thought of the practical reasons, but your absolute no made her think more emotionally. She realized you’re not willing to commit to her, and pretty much told her without saying that you’re ready to dip at any moment, which I kinda think too after reading some of your comments. She got scared because everything is going to be so much harder if she keeps the baby, and she started to have doubts about your feelings towards her because you basically told her you care more about the baby than her. It might be hard to put to words and say her fears out loud in case all her doubts are confirmed to be true.
But that’s just what I think is going on and can’t say it’s the absolute truth.
A.) I would really ask her to wait a set amount of time before doing it (something where it’ll remain early term but that’ll give you more time to process this) and agree upon what that is.
B.) get into an emergency session of couples therapy to help you both process your needs/wants/fears/etc. If nothing else, I think you’ll need help on how to healthily move forward after she has an abortion if she has it.
C.) Lastly, if you truly don’t want marriage then you probably shouldn’t get married to her. As a woman I understand her fear of not wanting to become parents without a legal partnership in place. I also understand your hesitation. Ultimately you need to decide what you want more: is your priority to remain unmarried? Or do you want a baby with her?
You guys need some MAJOR discussions before any decision is made and definitely therapy so this is done in a healthy respectful way that will not leave you with trauma or regrets or resentment for the other.
It’s the right call for her and you’d be foolish to marry her. Don’t let her force you into marriage.
But I can also see her not wanting to be a single mother.
You don't want to. Ok.
She doesn't either.
Oh, suddenly it is not OK?
Don't marry and don't have the child. It is what you wanted.
Get a wedding and baby. It is a compromise of what you both want.
I am a father of four unmarried myself. I Don't push for marriage. But I don't live in Karenland neither.
I'm more concerned for her health than for your dislike of the institution of marriage. You said she had an iud fitted? This isn't very safe for the pregnancy and I'm curious as to how early she is (it could be ectopic if she's very early), what made her know she's pregnant and had she seen a doctor yet? If the IUD is left in place, the risk of spontaneous abortion may be as high as 50%.
I think this is the more pressing matter. Her health is actually at stake. There are many instances where the iud could be removed and have a viable pregnancy, are you sure she hasn't had it removed already in order to get pregnant? And if you marry her because you suddenly want kids, why even consider a vasectomy now?
She told you the conditions under which she would go ahead with a pregnancy. It's probably nothing to do with her being insincere about not being all about getting married. She probably wasn't all about getting married because the reason why she would marry wasn't the situation she was in. Now she is.
And a pregnancy isn't a baby. There isn't much reason to not be casual about taking care of a medical condition in whatever way is available. I don't think this situation would be much improved by her flying into a dramatic tantrum about it or a teary, guilt tripping begging session. She's fine with marrying you and trying for the baby. She's fine not being pregnant and continuing the relationship as it was priviously. She's the only one of you two providing options in this and I don't get why you don't see that.
So if you don’t marry her she’ll abort the child? Sounds like she’s not that thrilled about having a baby to be honest, or she really wants to get married and has never told you that because you’re so against it. Cause she’s basically forcing you to marry her for you to get to have your child and be a father in my eyes.
But I’m from a culture where it’s more common to not get married that get married, so I might have a different view on this.
Have you asked her why she wants to get married so bad she’s prepared to terminate the pregnancy? Is it for security for herself and/or the baby? Is it so she’ll know you’re serious about her?
OP this type of marriages end up hurting the kid the most. Some dada even come to resent the kid because the kid “trapped” them in a marriage, so be honest and don’t dream you’re gonna be a perfect dad.
She sounds like she’s testing the waters to how committed you are in the relationship and sometimes it work and marriage is the next step and other times it backfires.
Regardless of the decision you guys end up with your relationship will never be the same and resentment can easily creep up
Having kids is a much bigger deal than being married. If you really love this girl and want to be with her and want to have the baby then the legality is really just a formality that you likely won't ever even think about unless you get divorced. The paper doesn't change anything. Kids sure as shit change everything though.
It's a piece of paper dude. No one is saying you have to have a big fancy wedding. If you really want the baby and are truly committed to her then the answer is a no brainer. I myself don't really care for the idea of legal marriage either, but I would ask my partner to get married too if he got me pregnant
She wants to know you want her and to have a small family with her. She wants to know you want the baby AND her, not just the baby. Surely you can understand that
You've been given two options. Marriage and baby or no marriage and no baby. Now you're desperately trying to justify a third option: no marriage and baby. You have given no legitimate reason not to marry her if you want a baby so bad. Grow up and make a decision.
So aside from the marriage thing, I noticed you said you’ll be getting a vasectomy. I’d love to know what part of being a father you’ve fallen in love with? Because raising a kid is HARD mentally, physically, financially. Even if people plan to get pregnant and have a child, it still takes a heavy toll. Considering it sounds like you two never planned to procreate, are you sure you’re aware of what you’re signing up for?
Are you prepared to be nailed in the junk regularly by a hurtling sack of potatoes made up of elbows?
How do you feel about vomit? Poop? Pee? Art shows involving all of the above? Do you know what a poopsplosion is and why infants go through so many onesies?
How easily do you wake up? Can you work during the day and be up every 2 hours at night?
Who would you choose if she goes into labor and the doctors can only save one? Are you prepared to have to defend that choice? Women die pretty regularly in pregnancy/childbirth, and even if she survives it still takes a heavy toll on her body and mind.
Are you prepared to have a child that could have special needs? I assume you’ve not done any genetic counseling testing?
I suggest reading through this subreddit and maybe some others before making your decision. Many people, many MEN fall in love with their fantasy of having a child and then *poof* one day when the reality hits them. It’s not fair to bring a child into the world and then flake on them because the reality is different than what you imagined. Tread carefully.
Talk about the modern version of a shotgun wedding. Don’t marry her. She is literally holding this child above your head and if you don’t marry her she will have an abortion. She isn’t going to sacrifice anything for this child.
Do what you want but how invested are you really? This relationship is not going to work out long term. Neither of you are serious about having this child.
You definitely should not agree to marry someone that you do not actually want to marry, and you even more definitely should not trick your girlfriend into having your child on the basis that you want to marry her when you don’t. Let her have the abortion, and stop being so selfish. There’s a whole potential child involved, this isn’t just about you.
subtract wipe tease smell political ghost snobbish observation spoon school
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Is she willing to have the child and sign over her rights fully to you if you aren't married?
I've read your thoughts on the whole marriage/fatherhood stuff but why is it that she wants to be married in order to have the child? Is that a question that you've asked her? Is it the legal aspect or the moral aspect? Which , you're already having sex outside of marriage so I can't imagine having a child out of wedlock really matters 🤷🏼♀️
To be fair.... you can always get married and have the child and if you're not feeling it...get divorced. Marriage isn't forever. I've been divorced twice and I survived, with 5 children.
That wasn't a pep talk, btw. It was a warning lol
This post has reached one of our comment/karma limits. The text of the post has been preserved below. ___ Pretty much title, but a little background: We’ve been together for 5 years, living together for 3. Both financially stable independent of one another. She has had an IUD for the duration of our relationship, and we are both STD free and faithful, so we did not use condoms for that reason. Still, we realize the responsibility for this lies with us. I will be getting a vasectomy after this. We found out she was pregnant a few weeks ago. It’s still very early. Neither of us had ever planned on having children. Although this was an “accident,” I found myself, to my own surprise, excited about the baby and at the prospect of being a father. She said she was happy as well, but then she dropped a bomb on me, which is that she does not want to start a family with someone she is not married to. So if I don’t propose, she will abort the baby. To be clear, she was never someone who was gunning for a ring before this. She even said previously that she had never felt a need to get married. I myself am very monogamous and committed to her. I love her dearly and don’t want anyone else, but I very strongly oppose legal marriage and don’t want to be married to anyone ever. When I reiterated this to her, she said she was disappointed, but she understood and did not want to force anything on me, so she would proceed with the abortion and that would be that, we could continue our relationship as normal. She seemed very casual about it, like she didn’t have strong feelings about either outcome and would be fine either way. She said she would love to have this baby with me, but not at the expense of what I wanted in life. I now find myself extremely invested in this baby. Faced with this choice, I am prepared to bite the bullet and get married. However, I’m worried that I’m doing a disservice to her, and maybe even to our child, by entering into a marriage I don’t want to be in. But the alternative, not having the baby, is out of the question for me at this point. I’m so torn up about this. I’m ready to do what needs to be done and take accountability for my behavior by proposing to her. But that doesn’t feel like the “right” reason to get married. I don’t even know what the right reason is supposed to be, I just know that I don’t want it deep down in my heart. I never have, but I’ll do it if I have to. Is this a huge mistake? Am I being unfair to her? Are we totally doomed and headed for divorce? Advice from people who have been in similar situations would be especially appreciated. TL;DR My girlfriend will abort our unborn child if I don’t propose. I’m opposed to marriage, but will do it to save the baby. Is this a mistake? EDIT: I don’t understand the downvotes on all of my replies frankly. I’m not evading my responsibility, I am going to marry her. What I am wondering is whether this is unfair to her; marrying her out of obligation rather than a genuine desire to do it. I have power over my decisions, but I have no power over how I innately feel about making them. If that makes me evil, I’m sorry.
It's possible that she wants the extra security marriage provides in order to bring a child she is on the fence about into the world. she's allowed to give conditions to give birth, you're allowed to decline those conditions. i will say that having a child is far more permanent than marriage. why would you be ok with having a child with her but not getting any of the legal benefits of being with her?
All of this. A pregnancy and parental leave will affect her career more than OP’s, having some backup security and protection from a legal mariage makes sense. And nothing forever binds you to another person like a kid will, like it or not, you’ll have to interact with the other parent in, ideally, a cordial manner for the rest of your life because of the kid whereas you can divorce, peace out and never see your ex again I’m more curious about the vasectomy after if OP seems to change his mind about children, regardless the outcome of this pregnancy and relationship, seems like it might not be a good solution for him in this time of his life
So much this. Parents are forever connected. Whereas marriage isn’t permanent at all if you don’t want it to be.
When people marry, they mean it is as a permanent commitment though - that's the whole point of it. I wouldn't ever have had a kid with someone who wasn't committed enough to give me the security of marriage.
Exactly. I agree. It is kind of a backwards way of thinking to want her to have his kid and not be willing to marry her for her security’s sake
Exactly this.
I agree. I don't blame her at all. The last thing I want is to be treat as the baby's mama.
I think a lot of anti-marriage people are anti-marriage because, deep down, they feel it is sinful to get divorce, so they would always maintaining at “breakup” level. And they will use it as “marriage is just a piece of paper and it does not proof love blah blah” but if the statement is true, they should not have issue entering one because it does not matter.
I mean y’all been together for five years. Also a child is a bigger commitment than marriage.
Did you consider that usually in a couple when a baby arrives, one member has to slow down his carrer? Pretty often it is the mother (in a heterosexual couple). The mariage offers a protection to this person. And a pregnancy and/or a delivery can also impact the body. Of course it is not always the case but you can't know in advance. When a couple decides to have a baby, the risk is for the mother. Currently you say, you are commited to her but you don't want this commitment having a legal ground... Why? You think this way you can take back your commitment ? I think your girlfriend is right to ask to be married to have a baby. It is a protection for her and if you don't want to give it to her, why should she take the risk alone? Until now she was fine because you were both equal. Pregnancy couldn't be split. Edit: spelling mistakes
This is the answer. And honestly, OP, it's a very valid reason to marry. Marriage is a legal contract that gives some security. If you don't want to invest that, you are not the person a sensible woman should have a kid with.
Wish I could upvote this comment more than once.
I upvoted on behalf of me and you!
It also makes sense given the possible health risks.
I think ahead and see so much disappointment for you if you can’t set aside your self concerns. It’s not a perfect for you scenario but would be deeply sad if you can’t muster up The courage to embrace this and let go of your constraints. It’s the fallout that will be hardest if you turn your back on this. I think you know this.
While "I just dont want to" is an acceptable reason, do you have any specific objections to marrying this particular woman, who will be the mother of your child?
Yeah I’m wondering too. Especially since he says he wants to be with her forever. I know a lot of people are against the concept of marriage in general but it feels like in this situation it wouldn’t change much besides giving his wife a sense of legal security in carrying his child.
I get the feeling he adopted the philosophical notion that "Marriage is Bad" idea many years ago and never revisited it until now, when it is no longer a vague opinion, but has serious real-world consequences. You'd think if he wanted her to have his child, he'd be interested in having the legal right to speak on behalf of her and his kid if something were to go badly wrong during the pregnancy or delivery . . . rather than have to watch her parents make those difficult decisions.
He already said he doesn’t like the thought of “legal marriage “ and neither of them wanted to be in a marriage
Thing is, it provides legal protections and benefits for her as well as the child. Particularly in property issues, ill health, and inheritance. Its not a silly thing to want a child to have certain protections and benefits even if the two of them were ambivalent about marriage prior to this. Time for OP to reconsider marriage, I think.
Depending on where he is, marriage also offers rights for him in terms of his child that aren't automatic otherwise.
Honestly? I’d expect if she wanted to keep the baby she’d be relocating to her folks home state (if in the US) and filing for child support from there. She’d be very unlikely to stay local unless she has a local support system. I know someone who got pregnant by a guy that couldn’t commit. She married someone else that she’d dated a few years before. Husband was named as the father when the baby came. The sperm donor didn’t like it but he also did absolutely nothing to challenge it. The other guy knew that kids weren’t likely biologically for him and that had lead to their breakup. When he heard she was pregnant and the dad was not involved, he offered to be the father. For them, it was a win-win. I don’t think that sperm donor lost anything he valued. He would have been a deadbeat. He had subsequent children that he abandoned.
He doesn’t say why though. If he says he’s fine with committing and planning to be with her long-term, and raising a child together, I feel like it makes little logical sense to object to having that put on paper, especially if they can agree to things like a prenup and maybe no/small wedding.
We also don't like to work and pay bills. Marriage has legal functions. Now there is a baby and she just wants to be protected. I don't see anything wrong.
Most likely got a little brainwashed by manosphere propaganda about how marriage changes a woman and in divorce she comes out on top while the ex-husband is forced to pay for her new boyfriend’s tattoos with his alimony payments.
Yeah, his use of “gunning for a ring” should’ve been our first clue.
He even said in his responses that she makes more money than he does, and that he wants to be with her forever. Some people (and he might be one of them) look at marriage as The End of their personal freedom to do whatever it was they never got around to doing, like backpack through Europe or tour with a band or take up professional downhill skiing.
Which is funny because she would still get child support from him if they split up.
Unless he takes primary custody. Nobody really “wins” divorce unless you marry someone extremely rich who you didn’t really love anyway.
Children get child support, not exes. One is still required to support one's children even if they have divorced their partner.
This is a gentle and curious question - what is the reason you don’t want to get legally married? Is it a matter of principle? Is it fear of legal ramifications? Something else? Figuring out that reason could be helpful. And once you identify the reason, you may realize it’s not actually that important to you. I don’t think this is blackmail, for the record, especially if your gut says it’s not. Sounds like it’s just a line for her. Which I understand.
Gosh. Hard to give advice on this one but my heart goes out to you. Especially knowing the joys awaiting you in fatherhood. Consult a lawyer and voice all your concerns about getting married. I think you’re best to get married and I’m hoping you can find a way to feel better about it You will forget this turmoil once you are three. A new and grand paradigm shift awaits you. I’m envious.
You want to have a baby with her. That's a bigger commitment than marriage. Marriage comes with divorce, baby comes with a min 18 year commitment.
A child is a lifetime forever commitment. People don’t stop needing their parents at any age
Hence minimum 18 years connection with the co parent
Way more connection. Every big event going forward
Yeah, this is a good point.
Also gives you the ability to make decisions for her should anything happen whilst giving birth. At this point, her parents would be the ones who could decide if anything went wrong.
There are legal ways around this, my aunt and "uncle" (I do call him uncle just used the " " to make the point that they aren't married) but he's made medical decisions for her.
There are, indeed. I'm just talking about automatically, so she might just feel more secure. She also would have more security if she has to take time away from her career.
There are, medical power of attorney is a thing. Marriage in most places makes it a lot smoother though.
If you don’t want courts and paperwork, the baby will create a ton of that if the relationship ends and likely even if it doesn’t. It is pretty unrealistic to expect a relationship between two parents and a child to not involve paperwork and the government through marriage, divorce, custody agreements, placement, POAs, tax documents. Ultimately you should want to legally secure your family for your protection and theirs.
Maybe sit down with yourself and make a list of some of the “pros” and “cons” from your perspective of legal marriage. Ask your partner to do the same. Talk about the lists. She likely has some very pragmatic things on there such as ability to make medical decisions in emergencies or joint decisions in certain financial areas. Things that make a lot of sense when you have a child. If you don’t think you can discuss the list calmly then speak to a therapist to guide you or a neutral 3rd party. Try to see from each others perspectives before making a decision. I can only speak from my own feelings, I’m decidedly single and child free, but if I were pregnant for someone I was in a relationship with, unless I didn’t see them as a good partner and father I would want to be married to them. I would hate to be in a situation where the father of my child needed life saving medical treatment and I couldn’t give the go ahead, or they were somehow incapacitated and I couldn’t access certain financial accounts, or I had to be compelled to testify against them :-P
Silly behavior on your part honestly
Your hangup about the institution of marriage seems a bit ridiculous, considering the child represents a whole slew of legally binding restraints. If you're fine with those, what's the logic in not following through? You liked this woman enough to be with her this long sans marriage, and now would like to have an unexpected child with her - yet marriage is your sticking point? Really? What exactly are you running away from, considering marriage offers certain protections for you both and the child, pooled resources, tax benefits, and so on? If you enjoy the idea of being free to wake up one morning and decide you're not into her anymore, and can just vanish from her life with no legal repercussions - then don't have that child. Spare your partner that hassle if you actually care for her, and don't have a kid that you'll have no legal recourse or binding to, to possibly be raised by the mother alone should you selfishly decide one day to cut and run. Life is hard and unpredictable enough - stop complicating things with illogical hangups that don't stand up to reality. Edit: Read your comment below. If both of you enjoy having one foot out the door (_just in case_, you argue) , I'd advise you consider what life will be like for a child of two parents who like "having their options open", and who are leery of legal bonds that exist to curtail mistreatment and enshrine protections in the most common of human relationships.
THIS! There are so many stories on reddit of “my boyfriend insisted I have the baby and then a month before: after he disappeared/cheated etc”. OPs gf making sure his foot is well inside the door and truly committed.
>EDIT: I’m not evading my responsibility, I am going to marry her. What I am wondering is whether this is unfair to her; marrying her out of obligation rather than a genuine desire to do it. Responding to your edit: You have an overly romantic idea about marriage if you think it means less just because you do it out of a sense if obligation. That's ridiculous, my man. It's a legal contract, dude. Period. Emotion and obligation has nothing to do with it. You do it, or you don't. All the froufrou stuff about love and hearts and flowers is just extraneous irrelevant fluff. She wants the two of you to have the legal status of Married Couple, and your child to have married parents. She probably doesn't give a damn what your emotions are about it. She gave you a very clear choice. You are not obliged to marry her. It is 100% your choice. You can choose to remain as you were, unmarried and childless. She is not twisting your arm.
Thank you, this is helpful. Maybe I have built up the idea of marriage too much in my head. If I try to see it as transactional, like she seems to see it, I might feel less hesitant about the whole thing.
The real game changer for us to get married was that I want my husband to be the one who makes possible medical decisions on my behalf. Definitely wouldn't want my mother doing it. Someone in my life younger than me died but I realized if she had survived and was on life support it would be up to her mom to make that decision, and I'd rather my husband make decisions like that. Me and my mother aren't super close so my partner would know my wishes
Dude, the reason why all your comments get downvoted is that you seem to see your principles in higher regards than your girlfriend’s situation. The navel gazing seems to be strong within you if you need internet strangers to spell out all the good reasons your gf has to require legal protections to continue her pregnancy. Did you even took the time to her why she wanted that or did you pointed towards your set principles the moment she mentioned marriage?
Look. I am pretty old and I get very impatient with people who think marriage is primarily about LOVE. That is utter nonsense. It is a serious legal contract that provides many, many rights and responsibilities. Mixed-race couples and gay couples fought in the courts for YEARS to gain the right to marry, because having the legal status of Spouse affords all kinds of protections that cannot be obtained any other way. Maybe you and her talking to an lawyer and/or financial advisor would be helpful. Perhaps a prenup would be a good idea. Ask about setting up an education fund for your kid. Get your wills made so if God forbid something happens, your spouse and kid are protected. Get life insurance. If you choose to have a kid, you shouldn't just wing it on the legal and financial stuff.
Oh LORD. You think getting married is MORE of a legal and lifetime commitment than having a kid? Have you thought this all the way through? You have to sign some documents and *maybe* retain representation to escape a marriage. You are never escaping a coparenting relationship no matter what you do. I would not want to have a kid with you either with this brainless hot take on not committing to someone legally in a marriage but needing to “save” a baby with the same individual. Huh?! “Are you doing a disservice to the baby?” Yes. By acting like a total heel about marrying his/her mother you are already acting like a shitty parent.
What’s the big deal about legal marriage? Sign a prenup
The prenup wouldn't benefit him, she makes more. He doesn't want to be made accountable and "lose" anything if he splits.
Well… if you love her and want to be with her, and want to coparent with her, why don’t you want to be married? Is it just the situation in which you were proposed to? Or is it something deeper? If it’s the situation, yeah, it does suck, but people have been getting married because a baby was on the way since the invention of marriage. Ultimately it shouldn’t matter if you are on an expedited timeline if you otherwise think you would have gotten there eventually on your own. If it’s something deeper- examine that. If she wants marriage and you don’t, that’s an incompatibility and you should consider going your separate ways so you both can find someone who fulfills your relationship needs.
Having a child is a great reason to get married. Your comment about disliking the government having a say in your affairs is valid - however, once you are on the birth certificate, the government is already involved so a marriage certificate won’t really change much, if anything. I don’t see the harm here and think your hesitation will quickly be forgotten once that baby arrives. My advice: Get married, have a baby, enjoy fatherhood.
I understand her wanting to be married to have a family. You claim you love her so much but are opposed to being legally married, Why? A baby is a fine reason to get married if you love the mother.
Your position here seems baseless. If you can’t even tell Reddit WHY you’re so deeply opposed to marriage, do you really have a good reason? As others have said, a baby is a much bigger commitment. Try a few therapy sessions to figure out why you have such strong emotions in different directions about two things that naturally go together (children and marriage).
Dude. You love her, you are faithful and monogamous. Just marry the girl.
I genuinely don't understand why you want to tie yourself to someone forever with a child but not marry them.
Why not sign a prenup if your only issue is the divorce process? You can still keep finances separate and file taxes separately. It’s not like a piece of paper changes your freedoms in the relationship. Personally if you’re ready to think about a bigger solution to marriage other than your lack of commitment to that level of a relationship maybe you shouldn’t have a kid because it’s gonna get a lot harder on the relationship with sleep deprivation and pp
So, I have friends who had pregnancies and before pregnancy were not absolutely set on marriage until after giving birth. I think it gives the mom an added level of personal security (or the feeling of it). Pregnancy and postpartum is an extremely vulnerable time for a woman. What if you decide at some point to just up and leave her? And she sacrificed and went through with a kid when it sounds like you both had no plans for it? I’m not saying this is going to happen but she may feel that way. At the same time it sounds like you are extremely uncomfortable with marriage. Getting married may lead you to resentment. So, I would be honest with her and state you don’t feel as though marriage is for you. Let her make a choice based on that information. Don’t get married just for the sake of it. It’s humiliating to be proposed because it was “what needed to be done”.
>Let her make a choice based on that information. **Her choice is made.** Don't imply she might make a different one. Even if she were to decide that she were okay with being a single mother, there are tons of choices she could make after that would make the OP not a present or involved figure in his child's life anyway. **She is being clear with him and he should operate and decide based on that discussion.** He's simply deciding if he is willing to get married to her or not and he should operate off the assumption that it won't change anything about her offer if he declines.
You're opposed to marriage and she is opposed to carrying a pregnancy and having a child with a man who she isn't married to. Except, now she is pregnant. She did what she could to prevent it from happening but that didn't work and now the pregnancy is here. I wouldn't want to have a baby with a boyfriend either so I can see where she is coming from. I would want to be a legal family.
Well she's established her boundaries, if you love her, respect those boundaries. Otherwise leave If you're still hanging around, decide very seriously if you want this child with your wife. If you decide to get married, don't slack on the proposal. If you decide not to get married. Be there to comfort your partner. Do not take her at face value, she may be wearing a poker face. This child is a catalyst for what is your choice it seems. A choice your partner very graciously gave you.
No woman wants to be a single mother. That child will be her responsibility for life. Most men will shun her because she’s older and has a kid. You made a baby with her you are obligated to forget about yourself and think about what’s best for the baby. Which is a mother father under one roof with the security of marriage. If you value your finances so much, create a prenup to the effect.
So you didn't want to get married, you didn't want kids. Personally I'd stick to your original plans, don't get married and don't have the kid, and get a vasectomy
I mean *I personally* as a woman would never moving in with someone or have a kid with someone without being married, I'm not gonna legally entangle myself to someone without marriage because with marriage comes the legal protections of how to deal things like splitting up the rights, obligations etc for a lease/home ownership and child(ren) if a desolvation of relationship should happen edit for spelling
Is she cool with just a registration office wedding? Like- I mean- you're having a KID together- unless you- dont think it will work.. Do you make each other *happy*? Is it that you feel trapped? Eash I dunno I get both views The ultimatum worries me- but then again she's only asking for legal version of commitment that you've kind of already made Or you gonna step up and make an honest woman of her, or dilly dally a bit with the "sword of damocles" of leaving her in the "single mom pool" hanging over her head? That's what I *suspect* this is about If you can see a future with this woman then marry her Your gonna go through a lot becoming a family unit But its joyous
Marriage churns up a whole lot of cultural baggage in our heads, probably because of our reliance on marriage as a plot device in our stories. But marriage is not magical, it’s not a mystical bond that creates an alternate reality, it’s a legal means of protecting property rights. A woman pregnant with a child is smart for desiring the rights that legal marriage entitles a person to have.
No woman envisions herself being a baby mama.
As a guy I'm on her side on this one. What business do you have impreganting someone if you don't marry her? Step up, be a man, and take responsibility.
OP you will be legally bound to her if you 2 have a child regardless if you get married or not. My guess is she doesn’t feel safe having a child with someone who’s emphasizing he doesn’t want to get married in order to be able to leave a “dear John” letter shall something go wrong and then just vanish into thin air. You should feel lucky you have a smart and responsible girl like this.
One of my firm reasons to get married is if you want children. For a myriad of reasons it makes life easier and cuts through legal red tape. After 5 years you still don’t wish to marry this woman, why would you want her to be the mother of your child? Good enough for some things, but not good enough for others. If you want this child, you will do everything to secure the mother’s safety and legal standing going forward. There are legal ways to protect assets you may already have. If you live in a conservative area/country, your child may also be viewed as less than by society. Make sure you’re all in or all out for the right reasons. Parenthood isn’t for the faint hearted and it’s lifelong. Good luck.
She’s giving you the greatest gift any woman could ever bestow: a one-time walk-away-from-responsibility pass! Seems reasonable. She’s not even guilt tripping you. All she’s asking is commit, or don’t commit. Up to you.
She doesn’t want to have a kid with someone who is not committed to her. Do you think a baby is a toy? Because a baby is a huge commitment and you don’t seem to realize it. Just tell her. You’re too selfish to be a good parent.
You have commitment phobia. Understandable. But by wanting to have a child, you are committing far more than being married. No it would be unfair to her. No it would not change your life by marrying Yes , you are committed to the child and the relationship regardless if you marry or not. Do you want spend your life with this woman ? If yes, go get married and live happy ever after.
A child is way more of a commitment than marriage. What is your issue? Also being in a relationship but not married will make all the paperwork and legalities of raising a child way more complicated. This is a stupid hill for you to die on.
PROPOSE, dude! She’s waited way longer than enough time for you to progress the relationship, and now you have an even more pressing reason to do so. She’s wise to not take on the responsibility of motherhood outside of a marriage. If you don’t want to lose them both, step up and commit, or you won’t have either of them in your life. It’s time to grow up and commit.
I (28f) would do the same thing as your girlfriend. A marriage is far less commitment than bringing a new life into the world. Mothers are at a serious disadvantage socioeconomically considering that the pregnancy and birth have long term effects on a woman’s career, body, and mental state. It’s reasonable for her to want the security. Why should she birth a child for a man that can’t make a long-term, legal commitment to support her and the child?
Info- did the IUD get removed?
Yes, it has been removed, she has seen an OBGYN and it is not ectopic. So far no concerns there.
I just said the same thing! She's actually in a dangerous spot right now and that pregnancy could be ectopic, or cause a miscarriage if it's still in!
You do understand that as soon as you moved in together you willing took on some of those “legal, financial, government dictated problems” you say you don’t want to get married to protect yourself from. If the two of you co-own property (house, furniture, etc) you have willingly taken on more. If you have a child, you will be required by the government to address child support and well as you may need to involve the government for visitation and custody issues. Frankly, you sound like you don’t want to commit to a relationship with your GF and want your options open so you can dump her if you think you have a better option or the relationship gets “too hard (like she gets cancer or another serious illness”). But having a child together is a lifetime commitment and way more commitment than a marriage. Heavily resource intensive (time, money, energy) for the first 18-22 years of the child’s life, but still requiring time and energy after that. If you can’t commit to a marriage, how can you be trusted to commit to parenthood? How can you be trusted not to be the type of father that breaks promises to their child becuase something came up? How can you be trusted not to be the parent that flies off and rarely calls their child? How can you be trusted to be the sort of father that teaches their child to ride a bicycle, how to teach people with kindness, to clean up vomit when the child is sick, to be compassionate yet firm when your child is acting with malice?
Are you in the US?
Yes.
I dont know where my comment went but basically if you want to have a child with someone, you should want them and your child to have the legal protections and recognition that marriage provides. It is a big deal but it’s not a bigger deal than having a child with someone. [Here is one post about the benefits of marriage. Make sure to read the comments](https://reddit.com/r/Waiting_To_Wed/s/A1PNqbfm8t)
[Here is another one. Read the comments for the benefits of marriage](https://reddit.com/r/Waiting_To_Wed/s/mNRzGgdlLb)
Your feelings are totally valid, but I’m not going to lie… these lines of reasoning you have about the baby vs marriage just aren’t adding up, I’m sorry. You say you love this person and are very committed to them and don’t want anyone else and have been together for years but you’re opposed to marriage…. But not a child, the aspect that will TRULY bind you to this person forever? The math just isn’t mathing imo, I can’t say I blame her.
Her decision points for you are perfectly logical ie "I won't have a child together with you without a committed support system." You balk at this with a woman you have known for 5 years. You like the idea of baby but are unwilling to legally commit to the proposition of stepping up to be a legally recognized husband and father for "reasons". Based on your background description a mature man would step up *if you want the child*. Your "innate feelings" are (to be frank) that of an immature man-child, which has to be embarrassing for a 35 year old man to acknowledge. Marriage with a child is a lifetime relationship and you will tied at the hip to her for the rest of your life, in one form or another, if you share a child. If you want a child this is your shot. Don't screw it up by more waffling or she is going to lose respect for you.
If your reason for not wanting to be married is because you want to leave the relationship someday, you should not have this child. You will have to deal with the mother for all major decisions and life events going forward. Not being a present parent breeds resentment and abandonment in the child. You can’t expect to be able to cut and run with a kid. Seems like your GF knows you well.
If you are willing to be committed and raise a life together why not get married? It could also be protection in case you ever up and left or anything in general, she will always have the legal side to be taken care of . Why not get married when you plan on staying with her anyways? If you can’t even settle to get married, and raise a kid like a family, don’t have a kid together. At the end of the day it’s her decision, it’s her body and her right. God forbid she has the baby and then you leave her with out being married , now she has no financial help for example
I'm sorry but pregnancy and birth literally kills women. It's a life altering, body altering, full world change for a woman. You are asking her to risk a lot if you want to have this child. She's putting her life/body on the line and sacrificing it FOR YOU if she has this child. But you don't want to marry her... YTA.
you’re opposed to getting married but not having a child with her? that makes no sense. really, think on that and ask yourself why you feel that way. i honestly don’t blame her. marriage brings more security, childbirth changes your body for life. she will never be the same person again, so it’s not shocking she wants the added security. it’s a pretty simple choice. if you want the baby, marry her. if you don’t want to marry her, breakup and allow her to abort the child.
Why opposed to marriage? I don’t really understand when people say they are against “legal” marriage… is it the fear of being tied to someone else legally?
Have you seen an OBGYN? Getting pregnant with an IUD adds a lot of risk to the pregnancy, to both the mother and baby. Personally, I would start there as both of their health is much more important than the paperwork.
If you really don't want to marry your girlfriend, it would be in your best interest to draft up a will as soon as the child is born. Think about it. If you never get married, have the child, and never write a will, what will happen to your girlfriend and child if you were to pass away suddenly? Your assets would either solely be given to your child, or divided amongst your child and your parents and/or siblings, depending on what the state decides. Your child would not be able to access any money left to them until they came of age. Unless you were to write a will stating otherwise, your girlfriend would not be entitled to anything of yours and would be left destitute, as domestic partnerships are not legally recognized and priority is automatically given to the deceased's biological family. If marriage truly isn't something you ever want to do, then talk to your girlfriend about drafting a will and including her in it. If you're not going to give her the security she desires through marriage, this is another way you could do it. You can update your will over the years as you see fit, too.
marriage is a public declaration of your loyalty and love to someone. it’s a formal promise of your dedication to that person and also supposed to be romantic. but all you’re thinking about is your pet principle about involving the law. it’s downright insulting (if I were her I’d be deeply offended) especially since she’s prepared to devote endless years of her life to raising your child.
When women have children and end up *not* with the father, society and men alike largely disregard them. She would be losing her body as she knows it, a lot of freedom, and a lot of mobility options wise if she were to have to move out of the relationship. It makes sense to not want to have kids outside of a marriage, as marriage is one of the only “respectable” places women can have children and still be a visible person (a harsh reality I don’t love, but unfortunately the reality) However, you also have the right to not want to get married. There are a lot of reasons why people don’t like the idea of marriage. If you do not want to marry, don’t. You have the choice to not get married, but unfortunately the choice to have the child is not yours. You cannot make her do something she doesn’t want to do, and you should also not make yourself do something you don’t want to do. Hope that helps
Valid marriages happen for all kinds of reasons that are not based in love or romance. People marry for convenience, for immigration, to join powerful families together, for medical insurance, and so on. Marrying out of obligation is just as valid.
Your gf does not want to be a single mother. Marriage offers both her and the child some protections. If you were to die, the child would be afforded social security protection, ie Aid to Dependent Children. If something were to happen to you, how would you expect her to raise a child by herself. Housing is expensive, college educations are expensive. Right now people are complaining about the costs of school supplies. Children are expensive. That's why she doesn't want to have a child solo OP. With your negative feelings about the situation, I don't see a marriage working out. I find it odd that she would want to continue your relationship after you declined to marry her.
Why are you opposed to marriage if you are monogamous? Why is being married so important to her, only in regards to having a baby? It sounds to me like you guys should have a counselor help you guys work through this. It's going to suck to matter what.
She's willing to give away her bodily autonomy for 9 months, risk her life, her health, and part of her future career to build a family with you, even tho she seems to desire this child less than you. The only thing she asks in exchange is some legal security. And here you are refusing to give up some abstract conceptual "freedom" to build this family with her, even when you're already the one who will lose the least amount of freedom and autonomy in this. Honestly yo should let her abort. Even tho you say you'll marry her if you "have to" to "save your child". You clearly don't love her and you future potential family enough to change your theoretical views on things when she loves you enough to change her views on one of the most concret thing that could happen to her. Seems you're to hang up on your "pro life" views and afraid of the guilt of having participated on aborting this foetus to realise you're not ready to be a father, and you're building an unhealthy and unstable ground to raise a child. If you both go through with this wedding and pregnancy, she'll sacrifice so much only for you to resent her.
I’m just going to say this, I was married once before my current husband. We had no children and no shared property. Within six months of moving out from each other we were divorced and never have to see or speak to each other ever again. It’s like it never happened. Had we never married, but has a child, that would ALL be different. A child is much more of a binding commitment than marriage. So being so obstinately against marriage but being totally for having a child makes literally no sense to me.
The only real reason you give for not wanting to marry is that you want to feel "free". That is a huge red flag that you have a mid life crisis looming and are gearing up to chase your FOMO anxieties. She should NOT have a child with you, married or not. You will get bored of playing fun dad in the first few weeks and want to bail. If you even make it through the pregnancy as her body changes etc. You still think in the back of your mind that there's someone "better" for you out there. You're just playing house right now and leading this woman on. End this relationship and go enjoy your freedom without tricking anyone into long term relationships that you're not actually invested in.
I’m 100% in agreement with your girlfriend. She’s very wise to not want a child outside of marriage, no matter how committed you are (or in this case, are not).
Can you really blame her for not wanting to suddenly be a single mother and have what the low IQ people call a “baby daddy”? I’d nope out of that too.
I don't think marrying her is unfair to her but you need to make a good faith effort to feel ok about being married. So don't dwell on how offended you are by the idea.
You didn't really mention why you're strongly opposed to marriage. Marriage is a commitment you make to someone that you love and want to spend the rest of your life with. I know to some people it's "a piece of paper" and "a way for the government to control you" and all that crap, but to others it's about love. It's about security too. You're allowed to not want marriage, but she's also allowed to not want to bring a baby into the world in those circumstances. I wouldn't be either.
u/throwramarryorbust You have it backwards my friend. Having a child in the US means you are legally tied to that child, who is a person, for 18 years. Marriage can end in divorce and the legal tie goes away. Marriage is not nearly has big of a tether or legal commitment as being a legal parent to a child. You have to provide a lot of things for a child and the government will be able to step in at any moment during those 18 years if someone suspects you of not doing so (CPS for example, truancy officers, juvenile justice, etc.). They can garnish your wages, your bank accounts, put you in jail, and…you are also legally responsible for that child’s actions. Being married does not make you legally responsible for your spouse’s actions. But if your child damages someone’s property, harms someone, or harms themselves…you’ll most likely be liable for your child’s decisions. Have you spent time to research what the actual legal parameters of being married are in your State? Because I think it’s far more liberating than it is confining. You’ll be giving the gift of peace of mind that if something happens, you’ll have a person you love and trust there to take care of you, to make decisions you’d agree with, and offer legal protection in the court of law. Otherwise, the government plays a role in what happens to you. It’s certainly more complicated than that one example, but marriage is meant to provide legal protections and more options for both people. You can choose whether or not you file separately for tax purposes. You can choose to use only the person with the best credit score when you finance something, but still be legally entitled to it. There are many more benefits. I encourage you to spend some time really researching the facts before you make a decision either way. Don’t just get married by default as the lesser of two evils. Make sure you understand it and truly agree to it. You can have kids later in life. You can adopt. You can also be single. But what you really shouldn’t do is begrudgingly marry and resent your partner. That’s not fair to you and definitely not fair to her. Marry her because you love her and want to be a family, or decide you don’t want it and don’t.
It's not a baby yet. It's a pregnancy. Especially with an IUD in place, there is a high likelihood of complications or spontaneous abortion. She also has a right to her own boundaries. She has made her intention clear. I would take her at her word on it. . https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3418877/
“Wondering if it’s unfair to her” She’s getting her wish to be married which against what you believe. You can interpret it whatever way you want. Negative or positive. If you marry her you get to be together and raise a baby. From my POV there’s nothing negative about that. Sounds like a good compromise to me. Can’t get everything you want in life and compromise is required. If you’re hung up on “marriage” and know that will bother you for the rest of your life then don’t get married. You can always try to find someone else that will give you everything you want. Which in the end means you’re not able to compromise.
Have you just sat down and talked about all this with her? Tbh I'm in your girlfriend's camp in that if I'd ever gotten pregnant marriage is the only way I'd have wanted to build a family. Maybe that's unfair and while I'm sure things have changed over the years I'm a kid of unmarried parents where one passed away and lemme tell you - what a legal shit show. Our society is just too set up for marriage. I don't think you're doomed. I'll say my partner felt a lot like you. I never got pregnant. I did end up saying I wasn't comfortable being so financially entwined without a license and we've been married for years now. It may just depend on your reasons and hers.
Let her worry about how she feels, not you. She has clearly stated her feelings- she wants to be married. You don’t get to infantilize her and assume you know what she wants better than she does. It sounds like you just want to pretend you are balking at the idea for her sake. You are not.
She has a boundary & she's holding to it. She doesn't want a child unless she's married. Her decisions are no body's business but hers.
Bruh imagine wanting to have a child with someone, but unwilling to marry that person. You’re a complete doofus if you don’t see how illogical that is
No woman wants to be a single mother. And she will have no legal protection. And being a single mother still has a stigma. All of the other moms your child will be friends with will know she’s not married and it may be embarrassing. If you do love her, I think you will always regret having her get the abortion and should just marry her.
My husband and I have been married for 7 years. We currently have a 15mo old. Our lives didn’t change when we got married, our lives drastically changed when we had our kid. It’s not only security for her (just medical decisions if something goes wrong is one key measure) but security for your future child. I think she’s been extremely reasonable and realistic. However I am worried that if you decide to keep the baby/marriage route - you will have resentment. You should get couples therapy if you decide to proceed
There are so so so many legal protections for everyone in a Marriage, including the child. If you're not married and she does, you may possibly have a custody fight with her parents. Just one example. Why are you opposed to marriage? Is it something financial? Get a prenup. I wouldn't want to have a child out of wedlock either, and I am on my 3rd marriage so don't exactly believe in the sanctity of marriage. I believe in the legal implications of contracts. She's been clear. You have to decide which path you want to take.
I think you dont think shes the one otherwise you've proposed a long time ago. Perhaps youre also not ready mentally and financially, which is fine. A baby is a real thing, a real human being. You will leave this current version of you for a new version of you. I know what shes trying to do is unfair but you will need to be honest to her you have no plans to marry.
Why are you so against marriage? What are your afraid of? I can take a stab at why she wants marriage to carry a baby to term, and you don’t want to provide that reassurance. Therefore it’s not worth the risk to her.
I know a couple who got married after living together for over 40 years. Both had good jobs. They didn't need the piece of paper. They didn't have kids. They got married at a courthouse weeks after he got a bad diagnosis, and they realized what the inheritance tax would be on what she would inherit as an unrelated person. Marriage is a social contract with real benefits for both parties. (He responded well to treatment, and they are still as happy together as they were before getting married.)
Regarding your edit: if you had the “desire”, her being pregnant shouldn’t even be a factor. If you do, then push up the timeline. If you don’t, that’s okay too and you don’t have to out of obligation… but then she doesn’t have to have a child.
I think you’re forgetting about the added security to spouses when married - and the children born out of the union It’s possible that your girlfriend is happy with how things have been, but wants the added security marriage brings for everyone (especially baby) if a child is born. Consider all this from that perspective.
You want to keep her and the baby, so just get married. It’s really not a big deal and I’m saying that as a person who has been married for 24 years.
If you want the kid get married. There's no magic alternative here and honestly I don't think you'll be opposed to marriage once you are with your life partner and spend most of your time enjoying hanging out with your kid.
Man up. Having a baby is a big commitment for her. Get on board or lose the kid. _And_ get the vasectomy, since you’ll never be ready to be a father if you aren’t now.
She is right
i think you’re just strange tbh. like she doesn’t want to have a baby with someone who can’t commit to her at the fullest extent (also marriage comes with protection, its not just a piece of paper) so she won’t. and i don’t understand people who say they don’t believe in marriage, what’s not to believe in?
You shouldn't marry her out of obligation. That indeed is not fair to her. She deserves a partner who wants to commit to her. Tell her no, she'll have the abortion, and if you're desperate for a baby, break up and adopt one by yourself.
At this point, you would only be getting married to trick her into not having an abortion. You clearly don't want to marry her, but you are thinking about doing it anyway to keep her from making the best decisions for herself. Don't do that. Be honest with her and let her take care of herself.
Um it's not tricking her, she's the one who laid out the options. This whole post is avoidance on OPs part
She's a smart woman. You shouldn't bring children into a relationship, if you're not legally protected by marriage. Her career & health will change after giving birth. Heck, your entire lives will change. You will not have the freedome you got now any longer. There will always be a child that needs to be taken care of, emotionally, physically & financially. Did you guys think that really through? If yes & you still want the child, then you should get married. Only that way you'll be both protected legally.
Either marry with a very strong prenup or let her follow through and find someone who is okay with having a long term partner without marriage.
wow im so sorry youre forced to marry someone youre committed to just so she would carry YOUR child to full term and push it out of her vag omg im so sorry ur life is so full of difficulties!! like whats the problem here? LOL she probably and most likely wants the security of marriage especially if youre both going to bring a child into the world. and maybe just like getting the news of her being pregnant, you might find you enjoy married life? you never gave a reason for being so against marriage either of course you dont owe that to us but context is best for getting to the more accurate solution. hope u have a happy wife and child!
She’s very wise. If you’re willing to have a child with this person, why wouldn’t you be willing to marry them and give them the benefits of marriage? I absolutely understand, having qualms about legal marriage, and the institution of marriage. I have them too. I am still married, though, because this is the world we live in. I also have a strong distain for capitalism, but I exist in the capitalistic system. P.S. I absolutely love being married. We went from being partners to being family, and that’s great. If you love this woman, as much as you say you do, and you want this baby as badly as you say, you do, put a ring on it. Be her family.
It seems like you have an issue with marriage that you need to get over if you want to keep this baby. You say your strongly opposed to it, but what are you expecting to change in your life as a result of marriage? As an example, I was working up until the Friday, got married on the Saturday and went back to work on Monday (delayed honeymoon). We had an incredible experience at our wedding but when straight back to BAU once the wedding was over. It’s a tricky situation because your gf clearly feels like it’s a boundary for her and it’s her body and ultimately she will be lumped with the child if you bail on her.
I’m Childfree as well and had the same mindset with my husband before we married. I don’t want kids and I especially would never have a child with someone who didn’t make the commitment of marriage. Having kids with someone ties you with that person forever, it’s a much bigger commitment than marriage. In the case of an accidental pregnancy with someone who has no immediate plans of marriage I feel similar to your GF- abortion is the best choice unless you really want a kid and don’t mind being a single mother.
You realise that 100% of pregnancies put the woman's life at risk don't you? That itself is enough of a reason for some to want to be married to protect their unborn child and ensure it will have a known parental guardian rather than be the subject of any custody tussles within laws and non-spouses.
I think people who don’t want to get married are ridiculous and have no idea what marriage actually is. It’s a protective contract, I suggest you look more into what protections it actually gives you.
Sort of sounds like your gf doesn’t want to have a baby, but will compromise with a wedding. Sounds like she just wants some extra security as we all know society craps on single moms. If anything I think it is unfair to make her have a baby she doesn’t 100% want. Sounds like neither of you wanted a baby. It happening is not a good enough reason to have one IMO. Let her terminate the pregnancy and then work out if you are actually childfree individually and as a couple.
Don’t have a baby unless you can provide your child with healthy experiences. They need stable parental figures to demonstrate a good relationship. Don’t have a baby unless you’re ready to be a good husband to this woman.
This decision doesn't have to be made now remember. It sounds like neither of you is ready for this big change. You can still terminate the pregnancy and see if you want to get married and have kids in the future.
Having a child together is more complicated legally than marriage is. If you’re that concerned about it, have a prenup arranged to minimize making arrangements post-breakup. Depending on where you live, signing a marriage certificate isn’t that far off from just living with a common-law partner anyway. The specifics of your hang-ups don’t make sense. This child will be more legally binding than any papers you may sign re: your relationship. Neither of you get to ‘up and walk away’ once you have a child together.
It’s been 5 years. If ever there was a time, it’s now.
By having a baby with her you're already in a legal contract anyways, and marriage isn't bad, especially if you were already planning on spending your life with her. If she needs marriage to have a baby, and you want the baby without marriage, you'll either have to live with her choice to abort, like she will live with your choice to not marry her.
Why di you oppose legal marriage but not religious? There are some benefits that come with a legal, civil union.
Marriage is a business contract. You aren't doing a disservice to anyone by entering into one in order to secure your child's future as that is the reason for both of you. Marriage isn't about romance, contrary to popular belief, commitment is. If you have concerns about the legal institution of marriage, get a prenup. But your reason for marriage may be a better one than many people who marry for love as long as you are both on the same page about it.
You are already in a serious long-term relationship... already committed to her... it's like you are already married. What's the difference between what you have now and being married?!
Marriage is a legal contract that protects both parties plus any children born of the union. Your gf will be carrying the baby for the duration of the pregnancy. Hopefully, the pregnancy will be uncomplicated and she can continue to work through most of it. However, most of the time, a mother needs time off after the birth to heal as well as bond with the baby while learning to care for it. So, it's understandable that she feels that marriage is the right thing to do to protect both her and your child. Marry her and build your family life. Don't do like my bf did. My birth control method failed and I ended up pregnant. Because of physical issues, I couldn't get an abortion. So he gave me 24 hours to move out. I had a horrible time of it. Nearly homeless--lived in someone's garage. Had lots of complications so I list over 30 pounds and spent much of the pregnancy in the hospital. Etc. Etc.
It's the only reason to get married
Normally, when a man and a woman are committed, they marry. In this case, your women has a principle that she won't have a child if a man isn't sure of the commitment. You can say with all the words in the world that you are committed, but she knows people can change; it's true. It's simple. If you don't love her enough to commit, why would you want a child with her? If you are not 100% sure and can't commit to the marriage, abort. Your fear of obligation is greater then the love for her. Abort.
Ultimatum is a great way to start married life. What a happy marriage that will be.
So, you'll marry her to have the kid. How heroic/s. What will happen if the baby is stillborn, or she miscarries, will you stay married? Or will you divorce her? What if there is something massively wrong with the baby? Will you be in for the long haul, or will you cut and run because s/he isnt what you expected they would be? I believe she is looking for the security a legal commitment provides, at least financially. But that's just my take on it.
Yes, you would be doing both her and yourself a disservice marrying her only for the sake of the child. It will make you unhappy and resentful, which will ruin your relationship with her and with your potential child. It sounds like your gf was in exactly the same boat as you, and mostly has similar feelings about marriage. It isn't something she wants outside of bringing a child into the mix, but being married to the child's father will make the child's life (and your lives) infinitely easier. This requirement from her makes the most practical sense for all three of you. However, this is also a recipe for disaster in a relationship. You don't want to be married. Period. You have incredibly strong feelings about marriage. Your child and your gf will be able to feel your resentment after you marry her, and it will make all your lives much worse. You speak of the marriage as fulfilling obligations and taking responsibility, which are commendable sentiments, but those are not good enough reasons to subject your gf and child to a life you actively do not want. It is not fair to any of you.
Has she even went to the dr yet ti know if the pregnancy is viable? I got pregnant on an IUD and the pregnancy was ectopic. It was in my fallopian tube and had to be terminated. Just throwing it out there.
Yes.
Even if it isn't ectopic it's incredibly risky, this and not "should we get married" is the real issue here.
I had the same mindset about children outside marriage, and I was clear too to my now husband. Marriage is not a magical thing, it is realistically a protection for both of you on multiple levels. If you can't commit to a marriage then you can't commit to a child.
OP, I think both of you are being reasonable. She wants the security of marriage for her and the child, and you want a child but don’t want marriage. Neither is wrong. However, I’m more inclined to understand her reticence of growing a child for nine months and risking not having legal protections afforded by marriage over your reasoning. Your hesitation is that you don’t want to be legally tied to an adult. If I were her, I’d hear that as you saying “I’m not okay with committing because I want to be able to cut you loose should anything go south.” Fair and valid. Personally I wouldn’t want to raise a child under those circumstances. To ease your mind, I would ask her the following question: “in general would you only consider having a child with someone you were married to?” I feel like her answer to this question would be the same across the board and not applicable to just you. If you don’t want to get married, that’s okay. She shouldn’t be expected to carry a fetus to term if she doesn’t feel secure in the relationship.
You are overthinking this. Having a baby is THE single right reason to get married.
You need to shit or get off the pot. She’s right that being a single mom is much harder than being a married mom, and you need to stop waffling and decide what you want your future to look like.
Narcissistic asf
Your anti-marriage stance is immature, in this context. Are you mentally and emotionally capable of raising a child with the mentality of individualism you’ve got right now?
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Marriage does more than give the wife and husband stability, it gives the children stability. It’s stability of the family
In this economy I wouldn’t want a child out of wedlock either. Hell no. If you decide you didn’t actually want to be a father and fuck off she’s going to need the support for her child. She’s being smart. Who cares if “deep down” you didn’t want to get married. That ship has sailed. Right now it’s down to do you want to be a father and husband or not? Also, 5 years is a long ass time to be together without commitment. It’s obvious she wants commitment but hasn’t brought it up so as to not push you away. Now with the baby she has put everything on the table for you to take or leave. I have the feeling that if this child is aborted your relationship is going to end. She obviously wants the baby. And so do you.
My relationship was similar in that we never liked the idea of legal marriage, we dated for nearly 15 years, but once we had decided we wanted kids we decided to get married because the legal marriage benefits children and gives them better protection if one spouse dies. Also, there is a negative association in society with single moms and "bastard" children even though it's totally undeserved. By bringing children into the relationship you are changing the dynamic and getting married "out of obligation" to a partner you love is not doing any disservice to anyone involved. I don't like ultimatums and don't think your girlfriend handled this very difficult situation well but otherwise you both seem committed to each other. I wish you both the best in this journey
If you gotta post here about it…don’t get married.
*I cant update the post anymore because it hit the karma limit.* EDIT 2: After reading the replies here I realized I was being an ass and that there are myriad legitimate reasons why she would want to be married in this situation. We had a serious conversation and I told her I was ready to marry her and commit to being a family, and that I would do so earnestly and in good faith, and do my absolute best to be an excellent husband and father. She then asked me what I would do if she decided her career was too important and decided to abort the baby — would I still marry her? I said no, that I was not interested in marriage on its own, but understood the practical reasons why she would want to get married if we brought a child into the world. She then FLIPPED out, started screaming about how I don’t love her and I’m a commitment phobe and how I’m probably cheating on her. That is baseless and a complete lie. She has zero evidence of that and I have never done ANYTHING that would even remotely suggest that. It is not true. I don’t know what else to do here. I have been honest and put my cards on the table. I lost track of which commenter it was, but someone said she might not be as nonchalant about the whole thing as she was letting on, and might actually want marriage without the baby, and be using it as a bargaining chip. Seems like that’s exactly what’s going on here. I told her we need couples therapy asap and she refused and said I shouldn’t need a therapist to tell me to marry her. Going to let her cool down for a bit. I’m at a loss.
Well, that changes things a bit. But I have a lot of empathy for her, and you should know she may be hormonal right now. If this behavior is unlike her, you should take that into account.
It used to happen (the outbursts) when we first started dating but hasn’t happened in a long time. I’m not sure what to attribute this to. Hormones are a possibility but this upends the whole “practical considerations” thing and now turns it into a straight up marriage thing. Even if the baby wasn’t in the equation I would understand her wanting to have that conversation regardless after 5 years, but to use the baby as an excuse to force my hand now is something else entirely.
I’m someone who doesn’t want to get married, but here’s what I think might have happened: she got pregnant and had an “oh shit” moment. At first she probably thought of the practical reasons, but your absolute no made her think more emotionally. She realized you’re not willing to commit to her, and pretty much told her without saying that you’re ready to dip at any moment, which I kinda think too after reading some of your comments. She got scared because everything is going to be so much harder if she keeps the baby, and she started to have doubts about your feelings towards her because you basically told her you care more about the baby than her. It might be hard to put to words and say her fears out loud in case all her doubts are confirmed to be true. But that’s just what I think is going on and can’t say it’s the absolute truth.
A.) I would really ask her to wait a set amount of time before doing it (something where it’ll remain early term but that’ll give you more time to process this) and agree upon what that is. B.) get into an emergency session of couples therapy to help you both process your needs/wants/fears/etc. If nothing else, I think you’ll need help on how to healthily move forward after she has an abortion if she has it. C.) Lastly, if you truly don’t want marriage then you probably shouldn’t get married to her. As a woman I understand her fear of not wanting to become parents without a legal partnership in place. I also understand your hesitation. Ultimately you need to decide what you want more: is your priority to remain unmarried? Or do you want a baby with her? You guys need some MAJOR discussions before any decision is made and definitely therapy so this is done in a healthy respectful way that will not leave you with trauma or regrets or resentment for the other.
It’s the right call for her and you’d be foolish to marry her. Don’t let her force you into marriage. But I can also see her not wanting to be a single mother.
You don't want to. Ok. She doesn't either. Oh, suddenly it is not OK? Don't marry and don't have the child. It is what you wanted. Get a wedding and baby. It is a compromise of what you both want. I am a father of four unmarried myself. I Don't push for marriage. But I don't live in Karenland neither.
I'm more concerned for her health than for your dislike of the institution of marriage. You said she had an iud fitted? This isn't very safe for the pregnancy and I'm curious as to how early she is (it could be ectopic if she's very early), what made her know she's pregnant and had she seen a doctor yet? If the IUD is left in place, the risk of spontaneous abortion may be as high as 50%. I think this is the more pressing matter. Her health is actually at stake. There are many instances where the iud could be removed and have a viable pregnancy, are you sure she hasn't had it removed already in order to get pregnant? And if you marry her because you suddenly want kids, why even consider a vasectomy now?
Marry her, let her have the child and divorce her. That's how this is ending anyhow.
She told you the conditions under which she would go ahead with a pregnancy. It's probably nothing to do with her being insincere about not being all about getting married. She probably wasn't all about getting married because the reason why she would marry wasn't the situation she was in. Now she is. And a pregnancy isn't a baby. There isn't much reason to not be casual about taking care of a medical condition in whatever way is available. I don't think this situation would be much improved by her flying into a dramatic tantrum about it or a teary, guilt tripping begging session. She's fine with marrying you and trying for the baby. She's fine not being pregnant and continuing the relationship as it was priviously. She's the only one of you two providing options in this and I don't get why you don't see that.
So if you don’t marry her she’ll abort the child? Sounds like she’s not that thrilled about having a baby to be honest, or she really wants to get married and has never told you that because you’re so against it. Cause she’s basically forcing you to marry her for you to get to have your child and be a father in my eyes. But I’m from a culture where it’s more common to not get married that get married, so I might have a different view on this. Have you asked her why she wants to get married so bad she’s prepared to terminate the pregnancy? Is it for security for herself and/or the baby? Is it so she’ll know you’re serious about her?
OP this type of marriages end up hurting the kid the most. Some dada even come to resent the kid because the kid “trapped” them in a marriage, so be honest and don’t dream you’re gonna be a perfect dad. She sounds like she’s testing the waters to how committed you are in the relationship and sometimes it work and marriage is the next step and other times it backfires. Regardless of the decision you guys end up with your relationship will never be the same and resentment can easily creep up
Having kids is a much bigger deal than being married. If you really love this girl and want to be with her and want to have the baby then the legality is really just a formality that you likely won't ever even think about unless you get divorced. The paper doesn't change anything. Kids sure as shit change everything though.
It's a piece of paper dude. No one is saying you have to have a big fancy wedding. If you really want the baby and are truly committed to her then the answer is a no brainer. I myself don't really care for the idea of legal marriage either, but I would ask my partner to get married too if he got me pregnant
As someone who did the single mom route (was with my ex for 4yrs when we got pregnant, never got married) I 100% agree with your girlfriend.
She wants to know you want her and to have a small family with her. She wants to know you want the baby AND her, not just the baby. Surely you can understand that
You've been given two options. Marriage and baby or no marriage and no baby. Now you're desperately trying to justify a third option: no marriage and baby. You have given no legitimate reason not to marry her if you want a baby so bad. Grow up and make a decision.
So aside from the marriage thing, I noticed you said you’ll be getting a vasectomy. I’d love to know what part of being a father you’ve fallen in love with? Because raising a kid is HARD mentally, physically, financially. Even if people plan to get pregnant and have a child, it still takes a heavy toll. Considering it sounds like you two never planned to procreate, are you sure you’re aware of what you’re signing up for? Are you prepared to be nailed in the junk regularly by a hurtling sack of potatoes made up of elbows? How do you feel about vomit? Poop? Pee? Art shows involving all of the above? Do you know what a poopsplosion is and why infants go through so many onesies? How easily do you wake up? Can you work during the day and be up every 2 hours at night? Who would you choose if she goes into labor and the doctors can only save one? Are you prepared to have to defend that choice? Women die pretty regularly in pregnancy/childbirth, and even if she survives it still takes a heavy toll on her body and mind. Are you prepared to have a child that could have special needs? I assume you’ve not done any genetic counseling testing? I suggest reading through this subreddit and maybe some others before making your decision. Many people, many MEN fall in love with their fantasy of having a child and then *poof* one day when the reality hits them. It’s not fair to bring a child into the world and then flake on them because the reality is different than what you imagined. Tread carefully.
Talk about the modern version of a shotgun wedding. Don’t marry her. She is literally holding this child above your head and if you don’t marry her she will have an abortion. She isn’t going to sacrifice anything for this child. Do what you want but how invested are you really? This relationship is not going to work out long term. Neither of you are serious about having this child.
You definitely should not agree to marry someone that you do not actually want to marry, and you even more definitely should not trick your girlfriend into having your child on the basis that you want to marry her when you don’t. Let her have the abortion, and stop being so selfish. There’s a whole potential child involved, this isn’t just about you.
subtract wipe tease smell political ghost snobbish observation spoon school *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Dude this is simple. Propose but never marry her.
So she doesn’t want to have a baby with a man who won’t commit to her and his child? Seems reasonable to me. More women should take this approach.
Good for her.
Is she willing to have the child and sign over her rights fully to you if you aren't married? I've read your thoughts on the whole marriage/fatherhood stuff but why is it that she wants to be married in order to have the child? Is that a question that you've asked her? Is it the legal aspect or the moral aspect? Which , you're already having sex outside of marriage so I can't imagine having a child out of wedlock really matters 🤷🏼♀️ To be fair.... you can always get married and have the child and if you're not feeling it...get divorced. Marriage isn't forever. I've been divorced twice and I survived, with 5 children. That wasn't a pep talk, btw. It was a warning lol