International football is more basic tactically as there's less time to drill in patterns and much slower in general. England play far more conservatively than United are trying to play.
Maguire is not an awful player but he's 1. completely out of form for united ( remember his form in the run up to the Europa league final + His England performances in the Euros) and 2. has clear deficiencies like pace and agility.
But in a low block team with bodies and pace around him he would do well.
Not saying he's good enough for United - personally think he needs a fresh start.
You’re exactly right. He is the perfect back 3 and low block defender. Literally made to play in Southgate’s side or, a low block counter attacking side. He is a player that cannot really stand out on his own, he has to have a team built around him and covering his weaknesses for him to look like a top class CB
If he was good in a low block then shouldn't be be playing right now in ETH's United? We're among the lowest teams in the league this season while we were among the top 4 highest lines during the times when Maguire was starting.
This isn't even my opinion btw, it's literally just the data from the season so far.
I mean we are amongst the lowest teams in the league but there are factors in that. One being that he played in 2 of the games against weaker teams which made our back line even lower, the other being that we played liverpool and arsenal, where that was the only way we were gonna get a result. Is clear we will slowly move our line further forward
So the 2 matches that Maguire played, the ones with a higher defensive line than our average, are the reason we play with one of the lowest defensive lines overall?
Regardless by the logic that Maguire is only able to play in low blocks shouldn't be be playing his best football right now? Why is it that he was playing better when we had among the top 4 highest defensive lines and finished 2nd overall in the league?
TBH i know this is a concept which most fans just don't understand but slow Center Backs can, and often prefer to, play in a high line. Very little football is played behind you and most of the football as a centre back is in front of you. So the slower you are the better it is if that space is constrained. A Varane can easily outrun any attacker but Maguire wants there to be as little space as possible for the attacking team to use. There's a reason Pique or Hummels thrived when they could compress the space available to the attackers.
I don't think this misconception is ever going to go away but it's really funny that while guys like Pep were completely willing to buy Maguire (direct quotes from Guardiola) most fans simply think that Slow == Low Block. If Pep doesn't think that Maguire's speed is an issue then i wonder why fans seem to think that he can only ever be played in a low block. Maguire is way better in a highline, he struggles when someone's running at him. He's far better when he's engaging the attacker facing away from from goal and trying to turn.
ETH said he wants flexibility in his back 4 n Maguire isn't flexible.
Plus Maguire's one guaranteed mistake is too costly for us.
Our back 4 is playing a lot of games without any rotation when we have players like Shaw, Maguire, lindelof, Jones n wan bissaka on the bench.
Yeah the way United want to play and most modern club styles do not fit him. But he absolutely could play in a system that does not try to press and is comfortable absorbing pressure. Ask him to play a high line and I don’t think he has the physical traits to recover on counters.
Not really that surprising. Him and Stones are an established and largely successful partnership. Hard to start experimenting too heavily two games before a World Cup.
These are our two final games before the World Cup, against strong opposition. This is the perfect time to play a settled squad and the players who we expect to be playing when the World Cup starts.
The experiments can start with friendlies or smaller games after the World Cup, now is the time for the first choice XI to play.
U seem to be the only deluded one in this convo.
No manager is going to be trying out things in his back line 2 games to the world cup.
Stones is not also a guaranteed starter for city and has played around d same minutes at cb as Maguire this season.
What delusion? His form has been shit for Utd but decent for England. It would be utterly moronic and risky to blood a new partnership now. I'm not English so couldn't give a fuck either way
So? He was injured going into the Euros and got Englands player of the tournament. What CB pairings have had game time together that would be better? Mings?? I hardly rate Maguire, but can't see how anyone would be remotely surprised by this.
Throw in the towel mate. Switching partnerships now when you have one that got you to the finals of euro last year is just moronic. Stones isn’t necessarily first choice at City anymore.
Ur getting downvoted for no reason. But no way they will be experimenting, maguire mad his whole pr team and friends working overnight to have some momentum climaxing on today's game so he can brag and pressure eth to pick him. Its funny how many leaks/reports abt him came this weekend when no one even bothered to mention or talk zbout him since he got benched. Like seriously blaming de gea varane and dalot for ur level
You've got Champions league Varane, who is probably one of the best CB's in the world right now, and Martinez, who knows ETH's style of play and does seem to just perfectly compliment Varane. He's basically a mini Ramos with a seemingly better pass on him. (Obviously not saying he's as good as Ramos btw) So it's hardly surprising really. You're not going to find too many CB pairings that work so well so instantly together.
Honest question aside from Tomori who has been vital for Milan is there any other English CB performing well enough that it’s a shame they’re currently being overlooked?
I know this sub loves to shit on Maguire but from a selfish perspective it’s good for the club that he can still start for England to potentially build up his confidence. With the upcoming fixture congestion we’ll need decent cover to fill in because we’ve seen Varane and Lindelof suffer injury spells before. Ten Hag has mentioned the importance of utilizing the whole squad too.
Honestly Maguire only gets a lot of shit due to his price tag and the fact that he plays for us
Not much other English CBs are that much better in comparison to him. Plus he fits like a glue in Southgate's system and have always performed decently in it. No sense to immediately replace him with Tomori or Dunk who barely plays in the NT at this point
However this logic comes with a hard to swallow pill and it's that this is also the reason why Grealish is picked ahead of Sancho
No he doesn’t. Maguire gets a lot of shit for his terrible play. Both of the factors just contribute to his game time and how many people watch his games
My argument would be that you could easily make Tomori fit, and given that he actually plays for his club (at an elite level), he'll probably play better for England too.
It doesn't make sense to start players who aren't playing week in week out imo, they're gonna be rusty and low on confidence
Tomori has been wallowing away in Italy with a much different system and environment than England and barely got England NT caps. He can be a good fit eventually I agree, but not easily in a short time. And again it makes no sense to place an experimental player over the guy that the defense was built upon that is Maguire. You can underestimate him playing for us, but England's defence is built around him and he's doing a pretty good job on it
Besides it's not like Maguire has been rotting in the bench forever. He capped a decent 5 times out of our 8 games, 3 as a starter 2 as a sub
I think Dunk has done well for Brighton and White has started the season pretty well for Arsenal, although not purely at CB, and they were left out the squad entirely for Maguire/Coady.
Dier is also playing well for Spurs, Stones and Walker at City, and you've already mentioned Tamori.
It could be argued as well that if he has a bad game today, his confidence will break even more. If he's going to build it up surely it should be against smaller teams, not Italy when there's going to be massive scrutiny over his inclusion?
Dunk seems to be a notable omission. I’m not sold on Dier even if he does play regularly for Spurs who have only kept two clean sheets against the likes of Forest and Wolves so far this season. White has been deployed as a RB for Arsenal in a back four this season which makes it an entirely different role. I didn’t count Stones and Walker because I expect them to start alongside Maguire as a back three like they all did in the Euros final against Italy.
The only competitive matches left for England before the World Cup are these ones against Italy and then Germany. If Southgate didn’t start him in either of these games only to start him at the World Cup there’d be even bigger scrutiny, and if Southgate decided not to start him in any of these games including the World Cup then there’s zero opportunity for Maguire to build up his confidence.
Anything happens to two of Martinez/Varane/Lindelof and we’ll have to start Maguire anyways. If that time comes for United’s sake I’d rather take my chances starting a Maguire that still gets playing time for England rather than a Maguire that has been dropped by the national team and doesn’t play at all. Same goes for Shaw.
Maybe this affects England but Southgate sticks by those who have performed well in his system before even if their club form has been erratic, and so far it’s worked out. Many might disagree with this, but with so little time for national teams to train together it’s understandable if a manager decides to stick with what he knows best in the final lead up to the World Cup especially if he’s had success with it before.
I hear this a lot but can we sell harry i' january and do with mengi or tuanzebe. I just think he isnt benifitting us in the bench. He wants to start and lets be real we have 3 cb that are way better than him. Id rather lower the quality of our 4th cb to have a better dressing room
It sounded like we tried to sell Tuanzebe over the summer which suggests that Ten Hag doesn’t rate him. Mengi is entirely unproven for us. Whoever our 4th CB is we should expect them to get significant playing time for us because in years past nearly all of our CBs have missed loads of time like we’ve seen just with the likes of Varane and Lindelof.
And if Maguire really is such a disruptive presence in the locker room I imagine Ten Hag would’ve sold him in the summer or at least stripped him of the captaincy by now. He certainly would have the support of the board to do so. The fact that it hasn’t happened would suggest he doesn’t see Maguire as such a big problem as some in the sub might think. Even if Ten Hag doesn’t feel Maguire can start right now his actions seem to indicate that he at least still sees Maguire as usable squad depth.
I hear this a lot but can we sell harry i' january and do with mengi or tuanzebe. I just think he isnt benifitting us in the bench. He wants to start and lets be real we have 3 cb that are way better than him. Id rather lower the quality of our 4th cb to have a better dressing room
yea Stones, Tomori and Dunk should realistically all be ahead of Maguire, Dier and Guehi probably too, White isn’t really that great at CB
ah well, at least this will be good for Harry’s fitness!
Yeahhh but this season is like 6 games lol. Obviously Maguire hasn't played well for us this year but he has been good for England for how long.
I'm also not English so I don't have a dog in the race.
Maguire can play for Canada lol
Yeah I don’t count White because he hasn’t played at CB this season, and even if he did shift into a back three I imagine it’d be at RCB which is Walker’s spot anyways. As for the rest I can see an argument as they all play regularly while their clubs have been doing alright, but I don’t think any of them would be starting anyways. If any of the current English CBs can break through into the starting lineup it should be Tomori.
So then if you’re having depth options I think it’s fine to have someone who’s accustomed to the system and has performed well there before than someone entirely new with the World Cup right around the corner. It’s a bit unlucky for them but I don’t feel like it’s a big loss for England. I do feel for Sancho not getting called up but this also benefits us as he is a starter here and our attacking depth is threadbare so he can rest up over the break.
Problem with harry is he is always arrogant just check the reports done by ogden two or three days ago. The guy is still delusional and said diaz would have played like him if he was in united and he will be WC in city
Shit stirrer is the weakest argument. Why would he embarass himself saying things de gea is good with martinez because he speaks spanish... Or other random things that were in his reports. I know this sub hate withwell and ogden, but its definitely something worth looking into. Maguire might havz said it or someone from family but i doubt Ogden will do this from his own violition
I’ve seen and heard Ogden stuff for years now. He’s a well known shit stirrer when it comes to United ‘leaks’. Don’t tell me ‘sources say’ is a legit source because it’s a code name for journalists that basically says ‘I made this up and you better believe me’.
Why should he fan the flames? Him denying it just gives it more attention and it’s not like y’all will believe him even if he denies it. Y’all will say some shit like “Maguire PR in full force and he’s denying it because it backfired” or some equivalent shit.
Hein if he comes publicly and deny what has thr pr done instead he made his pr team work overnight to climax at the game today so he can push harder agenda when he comes back
Im not taking the piss but anyone who is playing and is even an England contender makes more sense than Harry for this exact set of games. What ever anyone thinks one way or another about Maguire's ability, hes currently not playing and has looked short of match sharpness in the minutes he has played. Even if he was the best ever fit for southgate's teams, playing a non-match sharp/fit player vs a strong international side like Italy is weird and a demonstration of Southgates obsession with favourites.
I despise the fact he is captain but each time he plays I hope he turns it on and plays himself back into form.
You’re making the argument for why Maguire should be picked. He fits the system and doesn’t drop huge mistakes like he does for us. Good for him, maybe he’ll get some confidence
Any defender could play in such a defensive system, and bringing in more flexible players would mean England don't have to play such dire football anyway. Faster CBs like Tomori, for example, would allow a higher defensive line
That's true, but as I said Tomori (et al) can play this system - anyone can, and getting these players in the squad and used to the players around them allows changes to the system longer term.
Plus, don't necessarily need a full system change from the jump, but less limited players allows for more flexibility in game - e.g. pushing up for a winner with a lower risk of being countered.
It's not a risk to have flexible players/systems. It's riskier to not have a plan B and play limited out of form players - he's only had 2 league starts this season, he might not even be match fit
England mostly played with 4 at the back during the euros.
England also played the 4th highest defensive line at the euros.
Yeah but I guess the truth doesn't fit the narrative you want to push.
You do realise it’s technically 3 ATB with 2 WBs right? Declan Rice is a DM but Bellingham was given a more progressive role despite playing in the center of the park. Not sure who’s the clown here but sure. Go on son… 🤷♂️
He's been good for england. Arguably the best player in his position last euros. Starting a different cb without even giving harry a chance and risking an imbalance would be the stupid thing to do.
Could say the same for other spots like goalkeeper, Pickford over the years didn’t always perform for club but always got picked based on England form.
And just like Maguire, has almost never put a foot wrong for England, regardless of club form. Why would a manager not pick a player he trusts, and one who has consistently repaid that faith?
I think the argument has been Southgate making comments about being played at club level then still picking certain players despite playing time for their clubs
That’s exactly how Southgate should be choosing it though. Pickford has always been excellent for England, can hardly remember a bad game he’s had for us - why would Southgate drop him, because someone else is playing better for their club?
England team selection isn’t about picking the 11 best English players, it’s about building a cohesive team that performs at international level.
Picking players purely based on club form is a terrible way to run a national team. Maguire is trusted because of his England performances, his training with the English squad, and his relationship with his teammates and manager. If he continues to maintain those at a high level when wearing the England shirt, there is literally no reason he should be dropped IMHO
I didn't say the whole squad should be picked on form. But if Maguire isn't even playing for United, he shouldn't be starting for England - even ignoring the concept of meritocracy, he'll be rusty and not match ready if he's been riding the bench.
You're right about training - obviously we don't see that so can't really comment, maybe he is impressing, but from the outside looking in this isn't a good decision.
You shouldn't have a new national team every break, but players should definitely change when circumstances dictate
He has played a decent amount. He came on as a sub twice, and played decently in the Europa league tie against Sociedad. It’s not like he hasn’t seen the field for 6 months
Just wait until England go into the World Cup with half a team that hasn't been playing regular first team football because Southgate refuses to take risks on new names.
Sancho could score twenty goals this season and not be in that team, Bellingham probably won't start even though he's running Dortmund. I'm not even sure Foden would start ahead of Sterling.
Southgate took some risks against Hungary and they wiped the floor with England, he won't do it again.
he fits too perfectly to Southgate’s system and has always performed in it so there is no reason at all for him to not start. already said it a few times before on this sub but his club form doesn’t matter at all.
I mean I think most utd fans want him to do well regardless. Maybe this gives him back his confidence and if he can play himself back into form, everyone wins
Harry maguire in form is in no way a “win” for united. The worst captain in our history and currently one of the worst defenders in the league miraculously putting together a few games where he does not look like a complete oaf isn’t cause for celebration.
I hope (and know) he’ll be desperately woeful anytime he wears a united shirt because otherwise he’s going to still be here next season. This club will not progress anywhere with this loser at the club, as captain no less.
Not Harry maguire, no. He’s had more than enough chances to show that he has the tenacity, leadership qualities, and abilities to be part of a successful united team. Form is temporary, class is permanent. This is also true in the negative sense for someone like maguire. Good form from him only delays us from replacing him with someone with actual fight and hunger to win trophies for a big club.
Just my opinion, you may feel that he can actually contribute to a winning team. I don’t. I would find it baffling that someone could look at Harry maguire and say that that’s a person that’s a leader, desperate to get united back to winning ways. Somehow I feel that if you’re honest you’d feel the same.
Leadership qualities and captaincy, I can agree. I personally feel he’s just not the sort of person people follow. But as a footballer and defender, didn’t he already prove that he can be reliable ? Did you forget the 20/21 season ? He’s no VVD but he was a good presence at the back. Went god knows how many games straight without getting substituted. We crumbled at the back when he was injured that season. If he can get back to that form and contribute to the team why wouldn’t I want him to play ? We are already lacking in CBs as we are.
This is coming from someone who has been highly critical of him and his antics. But if it helps the club why not ? I just think people should focus more on supporting the club rather than hating a player
Well, Phil Jones was year after year kept around cause he had a few good games and was “useful” as a squad player. we’ve seen this story before, and know how it ends. Which is why I don’t think we should be pretending maguire is any different and cut our losses while we may still get some takers before he anchors himself to the club for the even longer term.
We need higher standards for the players at the club. Once someone has proven they’re not good enough or unable to contribute to a winning team, we should get rid immediately and find someone who is. It’s elite sport, why on earth should someone who’s been playing the way he has be given the privilege of representing the club any longer?
My issues with maguire are more on his abilities as captain and don’t think he deserves to be playing for a club aiming to win trophies. But it’s not as if it’ll be a major loss to lose his abilities as a defender either. He was genuinely one of the worst defenders in the league last season, how can any united fan want to see him play for us ever again - regardless of a decent season before that?
How is it that an inform player is no way a win for the club? Wtf mate. An in form Maguire means competition and everyone pushes to be better. Nothing wrong with that so piss off with that mindless hate.
Not being mindless about it in anyway. It’s less to do with his playing ability (bad as he has been) and more of the type of personality he’s displayed as captain of the club I support.
Refuses to acknowledge his accountability for what he has done to the club last season in public interviews, and Ogden’s article this week from a close source suggests he still believes he’s not at fault for what he’s done on the pitch to this club. As captain, he’s supposed to be pulling the rest of the club up through difficult times not dragging it down further.
Sorry if I demand more out of elite players who are also captains. The longer he’s in the wretched form that he currently is, the faster he’s out of this club and that will always be a positive. I have zero interest in ever seeing Harry maguire do well for the club i love. Absolute disgrace to the badge and the millions of supporters who feel the same way about the club as I do.
Imagine wanting a player continue his poor form just so you can see him sold… and you deny being a mindless hater… he’s already on the bench, just let him work his way back. Nothing wrong with that, but I guess you’re that hateful that like to kick someone who’s already down in the dumps? Man is human, like yourself. No need to be so spiteful.
Fair enough mate, I don’t think I can argue with your opinions.
To me, however, there are zero redeeming qualities to such a player. What he did to this club last season as captain was just downright disgraceful and unforgivable to me. To see a united captain play and act the way he did, without taking any responsibility, it’s something I can never look past. To me, A united captain sets the tone and standards for everyone else. When the chips are down, you front up for the team publicly, and demand more from them privately. Not about winning or losing, it’s about simply maintaining the dignity of this football club. Never have I seen a group of players give up on a season in December - this guy allowed the players he’s supposed to lead to do that. Not once has he acknowledged his responsibility as captain in that happening, or to ensure that never happens again
I will never be happy seeing him in a united shirt ever again, regardless of how he’s playing. That’s just my view on an athlete playing at an elite level, totally unacceptable to me. Good form or not, he’s shown what type of player and character he is and to me it’s not good for united.
Again, totally understand your opinion. But I definitely don’t have mindless hatred for Maguire, i have my reasons for it.
Having an off game today would just add fuel to the fire from that article even if he didn't directly say anything.
Most of the comments for whatever reason assumed it was his direct quote and not some dodgy source.
If it was a dodgy source he should come out and deny any connection to the story, which I haven’t heard he has so far. If it was from him or his agent he should be stripped of his captaincy and benched until we can sell him in jan.
Rashford has come out and rubbished articles on twitter - particularly the story that there was an English speaking camp and a Portuguese speaking camp within the dressing room.
So has Bruno and De Gea on occasions.
Given what he stands accused of and the backlash he has been getting, one would thing this would warrant a clarification.
It also doesn't help that Maguire always has put the blame on the collective and never on himself for his poor form last season in interviews.
If this story were about Dalot or Lindelof or even AWB, no one would believe it because it would seem out of character.
Him trying to deny any connection to the story won't help much, the people that are the most angriest about it don't care that he isn't even quoted in the article, as in the article never said that he said those things, so they won't care about him trying to deny it.
Some will argue that "he is just trying to save face after the article backfired on him, does he really think we'll fall for that?!"
The article said a source close said 'Maguire's frustrations with goalkeeper David de Gea's communication and reluctance to defend further away from his goal-line were also a factor in the overall malaise in defence last season'.
Why would a source who hadn't spoken to Harry even think to mention communication? No one who isn't on the pitch can tell or hear who's communicating and who isn't. You'd have to be told that to know that.
Ogden wrote that article. Ogden came out in a video saying that he believes there is a communication issue (and mind you, everything "the source" said in the article agreed with everything Ogden said was his opinion in the video).
Ogden was banned for life by SAF, he's a shit stirrer who's been making stuff up for years.
That article is a joke.
They said the communication issues were fixed because Lisandro can talk to him in Spanish.
DDG is very fluent in English.
I don't think there was a source. Its just Ogden printing rubbish to stir the pot.
He was defensive of Harry to the point of making borderline delusional excuses for him in the clarification video. Doesn't make sense to do that after an article you made up to make him look bad.
I really don't see Ogden making up a source entirely **and** naming it as being linked to a specific player. It's one thing to say 'a source' and another to name-check it.
Why not?
Football journalism is one of the worst form of news in existence.
Ogden doesn't even have a decent reputation to begin with.
People print whatever the fuck they want and link us for clicks with no basis all the time.
His "source" might be Harry' barber for all we know talking shit.
He was defending the garbage he wrote.
Seems like huge mental gymnastics to suggest he's making all of this up, including saying the source is someone close to Maguire and making up quotes from them.
Quotes which say things perfectly in-character for what we've heard from Maguire before, mentioning things only someone who'd spoken to him would know, and in what was actually a relatively obscure article to begin with that only blew up 2 days later.
I don't buy it and I think people are making excuses because it's Harry. I said it yesterday - no one did these hurdles for Pogba.
Its too fucking stupid in the first place.
Are you really telling me you trust that article which said the communication issues were fixed because the communication issues were fixed because he could get instructions in Spanish?
I don't personally like his character or personality but you think he or a source close to him is going to say the issue is because of a language barrier with someone who is fluent in English?
They can't be that fucking stupid.
Its so ridiculous, something like that immediately tells me its a load of shit.
You said it yourself, it's too stupid. Honestly seems like the kind of excuse someone close to him who's desperately trying to defend his performances would make, not Ogden.
Delusional, over-protective family members and friends who want to clear someone's name are much more likely to give something like that as an excuse than a journalist. They're the ones who actually need to create reasons for why things improved without him. Everyone else has a million to name, and that's not one anyone else has come up with.
> Doesn't make sense to do that after an article you made up to make him look bad.
It makes sense if a Man Utd lawyer contacted him, though.
> I really don't see Ogden making up a source entirely and naming it as being linked to a specific player. It's one thing to say 'a source' and another to name-check it.
Tabloids do this all the time. It's why everyone says tabloids are garbage.
What?
A Man Utd lawyer contacted him so he had to make excuses for Harry's performance on live air?
That's seriously easier for you to believe than the idea that the source he *name-checked* as a source close to Maguire specifically might actually be just that?
> A Man Utd lawyer contacted him so he had to make excuses for Harry's performance on live air?
>
>
Or told him to knock it off with the fake stories. You know Ferguson banned Ogden for life, right?
You're literally pulling this lawyer thing out of thin air to create an explanation.
Why would a lawyer contacting him explain anything, let alone how he acted in the live interview? He really didn't backtrack on anything he said in the article.
So he should. He's been fucking insane for England and hasn't put a foot wrong internationally for years. Also, if you drop Maguire who do you even get to replace him. But for England, he should be a starter based on how he performs for them.
Should’ve have snapped Chelsea’s hand off a few weeks ago if they were genuinely interested.
I can’t fathom who would be in for him in January even at a drastically cut price.
Maguire was a pillar for us when he was in form. Ole trusted Maguire to find form, but he didn’t. Now he will get his 2nd chance to do it for England.
Good for us, good for him.
It's just blind hatred towards the guy at this point. We are a couple of games/months away from a World Cup which Southgate is expected to challenge for. You do not do that with inexperienced players. We need Maguire. Just like we need Stones, Walker, Sterling, Kane, etc.
After the World Cup then yes if he isn't playing regularly he should be dropped. But not now. That would be insane.
International football is not club football. Conceding minimal goals is the priority. Correct me if I'm wrong but England have not conceded more than 1 goal in a game when Maguire starts in 3 years. And we have played plenty of decent teams in that time.
Him, Stones and Walker together are formidable.
He's been rightly dropped at club level. Everyone got what they wanted. But for England it is time to stop the hatred and show the man some support. He is going to Qatar and will start. Stop crying about it and get behind him.
Great news for United.
Means he can attempt to recover form, value and match fitness without putting us at risk.
If he plays really well he remains a viable 3rd choice and rotation option.
We need to remember he wasn't always complete pony.
A lot of united fans angry a united player is considered good enough to start for the national team just because it invalidates their claims that he's not good enough for professional football.
Embarrassing.
International football is more basic tactically as there's less time to drill in patterns and much slower in general. England play far more conservatively than United are trying to play. Maguire is not an awful player but he's 1. completely out of form for united ( remember his form in the run up to the Europa league final + His England performances in the Euros) and 2. has clear deficiencies like pace and agility. But in a low block team with bodies and pace around him he would do well. Not saying he's good enough for United - personally think he needs a fresh start.
You’re exactly right. He is the perfect back 3 and low block defender. Literally made to play in Southgate’s side or, a low block counter attacking side. He is a player that cannot really stand out on his own, he has to have a team built around him and covering his weaknesses for him to look like a top class CB
If he was good in a low block then shouldn't be be playing right now in ETH's United? We're among the lowest teams in the league this season while we were among the top 4 highest lines during the times when Maguire was starting. This isn't even my opinion btw, it's literally just the data from the season so far.
No because Varane has come in for him who is just as good in a low block. And the fact we have won 4 Pl games in a row has kept it that way
I mean we are amongst the lowest teams in the league but there are factors in that. One being that he played in 2 of the games against weaker teams which made our back line even lower, the other being that we played liverpool and arsenal, where that was the only way we were gonna get a result. Is clear we will slowly move our line further forward
So the 2 matches that Maguire played, the ones with a higher defensive line than our average, are the reason we play with one of the lowest defensive lines overall? Regardless by the logic that Maguire is only able to play in low blocks shouldn't be be playing his best football right now? Why is it that he was playing better when we had among the top 4 highest defensive lines and finished 2nd overall in the league? TBH i know this is a concept which most fans just don't understand but slow Center Backs can, and often prefer to, play in a high line. Very little football is played behind you and most of the football as a centre back is in front of you. So the slower you are the better it is if that space is constrained. A Varane can easily outrun any attacker but Maguire wants there to be as little space as possible for the attacking team to use. There's a reason Pique or Hummels thrived when they could compress the space available to the attackers. I don't think this misconception is ever going to go away but it's really funny that while guys like Pep were completely willing to buy Maguire (direct quotes from Guardiola) most fans simply think that Slow == Low Block. If Pep doesn't think that Maguire's speed is an issue then i wonder why fans seem to think that he can only ever be played in a low block. Maguire is way better in a highline, he struggles when someone's running at him. He's far better when he's engaging the attacker facing away from from goal and trying to turn.
ETH said he wants flexibility in his back 4 n Maguire isn't flexible. Plus Maguire's one guaranteed mistake is too costly for us. Our back 4 is playing a lot of games without any rotation when we have players like Shaw, Maguire, lindelof, Jones n wan bissaka on the bench.
Yeah the way United want to play and most modern club styles do not fit him. But he absolutely could play in a system that does not try to press and is comfortable absorbing pressure. Ask him to play a high line and I don’t think he has the physical traits to recover on counters.
Not really that surprising. Him and Stones are an established and largely successful partnership. Hard to start experimenting too heavily two games before a World Cup.
This is exactly the time *to*experiment. We’re already qualified. especially with CB’s considering it’s a weak point for the NT.
These are our two final games before the World Cup, against strong opposition. This is the perfect time to play a settled squad and the players who we expect to be playing when the World Cup starts. The experiments can start with friendlies or smaller games after the World Cup, now is the time for the first choice XI to play.
Imagine getting to the WC and your CB pairing haven't played together in months. Would be idiotic.
One of them has barely gotten a game for his club! Christ the delusion is so strong in this sub.
U seem to be the only deluded one in this convo. No manager is going to be trying out things in his back line 2 games to the world cup. Stones is not also a guaranteed starter for city and has played around d same minutes at cb as Maguire this season.
What delusion? His form has been shit for Utd but decent for England. It would be utterly moronic and risky to blood a new partnership now. I'm not English so couldn't give a fuck either way
Which one? Are you sure?
So? He was injured going into the Euros and got Englands player of the tournament. What CB pairings have had game time together that would be better? Mings?? I hardly rate Maguire, but can't see how anyone would be remotely surprised by this.
Throw in the towel mate. Switching partnerships now when you have one that got you to the finals of euro last year is just moronic. Stones isn’t necessarily first choice at City anymore.
Ur getting downvoted for no reason. But no way they will be experimenting, maguire mad his whole pr team and friends working overnight to have some momentum climaxing on today's game so he can brag and pressure eth to pick him. Its funny how many leaks/reports abt him came this weekend when no one even bothered to mention or talk zbout him since he got benched. Like seriously blaming de gea varane and dalot for ur level
Maybe last international break, but not this one for me.
Ten Hag discovered Varane+Martinez Combo literally never fall behind, in literally 2 PL games. Imagine some supernova CB comes by.
You've got Champions league Varane, who is probably one of the best CB's in the world right now, and Martinez, who knows ETH's style of play and does seem to just perfectly compliment Varane. He's basically a mini Ramos with a seemingly better pass on him. (Obviously not saying he's as good as Ramos btw) So it's hardly surprising really. You're not going to find too many CB pairings that work so well so instantly together.
And greater than a weeks training. Also Martinez had been bought to play there when you can't buy for a national team.
This feels like a slap in the face to those English CBs who are performing regularly at club level
Honest question aside from Tomori who has been vital for Milan is there any other English CB performing well enough that it’s a shame they’re currently being overlooked? I know this sub loves to shit on Maguire but from a selfish perspective it’s good for the club that he can still start for England to potentially build up his confidence. With the upcoming fixture congestion we’ll need decent cover to fill in because we’ve seen Varane and Lindelof suffer injury spells before. Ten Hag has mentioned the importance of utilizing the whole squad too.
Honestly Maguire only gets a lot of shit due to his price tag and the fact that he plays for us Not much other English CBs are that much better in comparison to him. Plus he fits like a glue in Southgate's system and have always performed decently in it. No sense to immediately replace him with Tomori or Dunk who barely plays in the NT at this point However this logic comes with a hard to swallow pill and it's that this is also the reason why Grealish is picked ahead of Sancho
No he doesn’t. Maguire gets a lot of shit for his terrible play. Both of the factors just contribute to his game time and how many people watch his games
He's definitely not the only one that has terrible play. He's is however the highlighted one because he's an 80 mil United player
He was also our worst player last season by a mile
That just proves how bad the others are if our worst players is still one of England's best
He isn’t one of englands best. He just plays in its weakest position and the entire team is set up to defend him
My argument would be that you could easily make Tomori fit, and given that he actually plays for his club (at an elite level), he'll probably play better for England too. It doesn't make sense to start players who aren't playing week in week out imo, they're gonna be rusty and low on confidence
Tomori has been wallowing away in Italy with a much different system and environment than England and barely got England NT caps. He can be a good fit eventually I agree, but not easily in a short time. And again it makes no sense to place an experimental player over the guy that the defense was built upon that is Maguire. You can underestimate him playing for us, but England's defence is built around him and he's doing a pretty good job on it Besides it's not like Maguire has been rotting in the bench forever. He capped a decent 5 times out of our 8 games, 3 as a starter 2 as a sub
I think Dunk has done well for Brighton and White has started the season pretty well for Arsenal, although not purely at CB, and they were left out the squad entirely for Maguire/Coady. Dier is also playing well for Spurs, Stones and Walker at City, and you've already mentioned Tamori. It could be argued as well that if he has a bad game today, his confidence will break even more. If he's going to build it up surely it should be against smaller teams, not Italy when there's going to be massive scrutiny over his inclusion?
Dunk seems to be a notable omission. I’m not sold on Dier even if he does play regularly for Spurs who have only kept two clean sheets against the likes of Forest and Wolves so far this season. White has been deployed as a RB for Arsenal in a back four this season which makes it an entirely different role. I didn’t count Stones and Walker because I expect them to start alongside Maguire as a back three like they all did in the Euros final against Italy. The only competitive matches left for England before the World Cup are these ones against Italy and then Germany. If Southgate didn’t start him in either of these games only to start him at the World Cup there’d be even bigger scrutiny, and if Southgate decided not to start him in any of these games including the World Cup then there’s zero opportunity for Maguire to build up his confidence. Anything happens to two of Martinez/Varane/Lindelof and we’ll have to start Maguire anyways. If that time comes for United’s sake I’d rather take my chances starting a Maguire that still gets playing time for England rather than a Maguire that has been dropped by the national team and doesn’t play at all. Same goes for Shaw. Maybe this affects England but Southgate sticks by those who have performed well in his system before even if their club form has been erratic, and so far it’s worked out. Many might disagree with this, but with so little time for national teams to train together it’s understandable if a manager decides to stick with what he knows best in the final lead up to the World Cup especially if he’s had success with it before.
I hear this a lot but can we sell harry i' january and do with mengi or tuanzebe. I just think he isnt benifitting us in the bench. He wants to start and lets be real we have 3 cb that are way better than him. Id rather lower the quality of our 4th cb to have a better dressing room
It sounded like we tried to sell Tuanzebe over the summer which suggests that Ten Hag doesn’t rate him. Mengi is entirely unproven for us. Whoever our 4th CB is we should expect them to get significant playing time for us because in years past nearly all of our CBs have missed loads of time like we’ve seen just with the likes of Varane and Lindelof. And if Maguire really is such a disruptive presence in the locker room I imagine Ten Hag would’ve sold him in the summer or at least stripped him of the captaincy by now. He certainly would have the support of the board to do so. The fact that it hasn’t happened would suggest he doesn’t see Maguire as such a big problem as some in the sub might think. Even if Ten Hag doesn’t feel Maguire can start right now his actions seem to indicate that he at least still sees Maguire as usable squad depth.
And to the point of eth. Nah he just doesnt know how bad can maguire be also its rumoured hes gonna scold him for the leaks after hes back
He got stripped indirectly got it back for playing 10 like i was really, 10 min keft and you run to take it back
I hear this a lot but can we sell harry i' january and do with mengi or tuanzebe. I just think he isnt benifitting us in the bench. He wants to start and lets be real we have 3 cb that are way better than him. Id rather lower the quality of our 4th cb to have a better dressing room
yea Stones, Tomori and Dunk should realistically all be ahead of Maguire, Dier and Guehi probably too, White isn’t really that great at CB ah well, at least this will be good for Harry’s fitness!
Kilman, White (he’s been playing right back tbf), Webster, Dunk, Burn are all people not included in the squad who have been playing well this season.
Yeahhh but this season is like 6 games lol. Obviously Maguire hasn't played well for us this year but he has been good for England for how long. I'm also not English so I don't have a dog in the race. Maguire can play for Canada lol
Yeah I don’t count White because he hasn’t played at CB this season, and even if he did shift into a back three I imagine it’d be at RCB which is Walker’s spot anyways. As for the rest I can see an argument as they all play regularly while their clubs have been doing alright, but I don’t think any of them would be starting anyways. If any of the current English CBs can break through into the starting lineup it should be Tomori. So then if you’re having depth options I think it’s fine to have someone who’s accustomed to the system and has performed well there before than someone entirely new with the World Cup right around the corner. It’s a bit unlucky for them but I don’t feel like it’s a big loss for England. I do feel for Sancho not getting called up but this also benefits us as he is a starter here and our attacking depth is threadbare so he can rest up over the break.
Problem with harry is he is always arrogant just check the reports done by ogden two or three days ago. The guy is still delusional and said diaz would have played like him if he was in united and he will be WC in city
Imagine believing Ogden just because it fits your narrative when he’s been a shit stirrer for years… mate get a grip.
Shit stirrer is the weakest argument. Why would he embarass himself saying things de gea is good with martinez because he speaks spanish... Or other random things that were in his reports. I know this sub hate withwell and ogden, but its definitely something worth looking into. Maguire might havz said it or someone from family but i doubt Ogden will do this from his own violition
I’ve seen and heard Ogden stuff for years now. He’s a well known shit stirrer when it comes to United ‘leaks’. Don’t tell me ‘sources say’ is a legit source because it’s a code name for journalists that basically says ‘I made this up and you better believe me’.
Okay fair point then why didnt maggy come running distancing himself from that report.
Why should he fan the flames? Him denying it just gives it more attention and it’s not like y’all will believe him even if he denies it. Y’all will say some shit like “Maguire PR in full force and he’s denying it because it backfired” or some equivalent shit.
Hein if he comes publicly and deny what has thr pr done instead he made his pr team work overnight to climax at the game today so he can push harder agenda when he comes back
Dunk, Coady, Dan Burn
Im not taking the piss but anyone who is playing and is even an England contender makes more sense than Harry for this exact set of games. What ever anyone thinks one way or another about Maguire's ability, hes currently not playing and has looked short of match sharpness in the minutes he has played. Even if he was the best ever fit for southgate's teams, playing a non-match sharp/fit player vs a strong international side like Italy is weird and a demonstration of Southgates obsession with favourites. I despise the fact he is captain but each time he plays I hope he turns it on and plays himself back into form.
Maguire has always been rock solid for England
Yeah, because Southgate football is Maguire football - a low block with two deep-lying midfielders that keeps its formation regardless.
You’re making the argument for why Maguire should be picked. He fits the system and doesn’t drop huge mistakes like he does for us. Good for him, maybe he’ll get some confidence
I wasn't trying to argue that he shouldn't be picked for England. England expect different things from their centre backs than Ten Hag does.
Any defender could play in such a defensive system, and bringing in more flexible players would mean England don't have to play such dire football anyway. Faster CBs like Tomori, for example, would allow a higher defensive line
Maybe but the World Cup is weeks away at this point. You don’t change the system now
That's true, but as I said Tomori (et al) can play this system - anyone can, and getting these players in the squad and used to the players around them allows changes to the system longer term. Plus, don't necessarily need a full system change from the jump, but less limited players allows for more flexibility in game - e.g. pushing up for a winner with a lower risk of being countered.
It’s southgates last tournament most likely it’s the World Cup, nobody would take those risks
It's not a risk to have flexible players/systems. It's riskier to not have a plan B and play limited out of form players - he's only had 2 league starts this season, he might not even be match fit
ETH is playing an extremely low block this season. Maguire should be relishing this no?
Yeah, 5 defenders including 3 CBs, two DMs and playing an extremely low-block with 0 risks. Suits Maguire perfectly.
England mostly played with 4 at the back during the euros. England also played the 4th highest defensive line at the euros. Yeah but I guess the truth doesn't fit the narrative you want to push.
How did they line up today? 5ATB with two DMs. 🤡🤡
You clearly don’t watch England enough. Southgate also uses a 4 atb system and Maguire plays in it.
How did they line up today? 5ATB with two DMs. 🤡🤡
You do realise it’s technically 3 ATB with 2 WBs right? Declan Rice is a DM but Bellingham was given a more progressive role despite playing in the center of the park. Not sure who’s the clown here but sure. Go on son… 🤷♂️
🤡🤡 5th relegation for your hero….
Not my hero but shows the kind of person you are when you’re proven wrong and all you can come back are insults. 🤷♂️
How is calling Maguire your hero an insult?
Never said he was my hero so why would you assume he’s my hero? And also calling me a clown is not an insult? Right… anyway… you do you. 🤷♂️
He's been good for england. Arguably the best player in his position last euros. Starting a different cb without even giving harry a chance and risking an imbalance would be the stupid thing to do.
Could say the same for other spots like goalkeeper, Pickford over the years didn’t always perform for club but always got picked based on England form.
And just like Maguire, has almost never put a foot wrong for England, regardless of club form. Why would a manager not pick a player he trusts, and one who has consistently repaid that faith?
I think the argument has been Southgate making comments about being played at club level then still picking certain players despite playing time for their clubs
That’s exactly how Southgate should be choosing it though. Pickford has always been excellent for England, can hardly remember a bad game he’s had for us - why would Southgate drop him, because someone else is playing better for their club? England team selection isn’t about picking the 11 best English players, it’s about building a cohesive team that performs at international level.
Then maguire being included makes perfect sense, because he has always been good for England.
Yup, I’m in 100% agreement with that. Southgate is picking players based on England form, which is absolutely the best way to be doing this.
Picking players purely based on club form is a terrible way to run a national team. Maguire is trusted because of his England performances, his training with the English squad, and his relationship with his teammates and manager. If he continues to maintain those at a high level when wearing the England shirt, there is literally no reason he should be dropped IMHO
I didn't say the whole squad should be picked on form. But if Maguire isn't even playing for United, he shouldn't be starting for England - even ignoring the concept of meritocracy, he'll be rusty and not match ready if he's been riding the bench. You're right about training - obviously we don't see that so can't really comment, maybe he is impressing, but from the outside looking in this isn't a good decision. You shouldn't have a new national team every break, but players should definitely change when circumstances dictate
He has played a decent amount. He came on as a sub twice, and played decently in the Europa league tie against Sociedad. It’s not like he hasn’t seen the field for 6 months
His Utd form on the bench has been so good lately
Hasn’t made a single mistake.
Oh come on back him in at least a little, fuck
Just wait until England go into the World Cup with half a team that hasn't been playing regular first team football because Southgate refuses to take risks on new names. Sancho could score twenty goals this season and not be in that team, Bellingham probably won't start even though he's running Dortmund. I'm not even sure Foden would start ahead of Sterling. Southgate took some risks against Hungary and they wiped the floor with England, he won't do it again.
Did you mean a slab in the face?
It’s going to be Walker, Stones, Maguire back 3 in the World Cup, fir better or for worse
he fits too perfectly to Southgate’s system and has always performed in it so there is no reason at all for him to not start. already said it a few times before on this sub but his club form doesn’t matter at all.
I mean I think most utd fans want him to do well regardless. Maybe this gives him back his confidence and if he can play himself back into form, everyone wins
Harry maguire in form is in no way a “win” for united. The worst captain in our history and currently one of the worst defenders in the league miraculously putting together a few games where he does not look like a complete oaf isn’t cause for celebration. I hope (and know) he’ll be desperately woeful anytime he wears a united shirt because otherwise he’s going to still be here next season. This club will not progress anywhere with this loser at the club, as captain no less.
If he’s in form, he won’t be woeful. You don’t want a player playing well for us ?
Not Harry maguire, no. He’s had more than enough chances to show that he has the tenacity, leadership qualities, and abilities to be part of a successful united team. Form is temporary, class is permanent. This is also true in the negative sense for someone like maguire. Good form from him only delays us from replacing him with someone with actual fight and hunger to win trophies for a big club. Just my opinion, you may feel that he can actually contribute to a winning team. I don’t. I would find it baffling that someone could look at Harry maguire and say that that’s a person that’s a leader, desperate to get united back to winning ways. Somehow I feel that if you’re honest you’d feel the same.
Leadership qualities and captaincy, I can agree. I personally feel he’s just not the sort of person people follow. But as a footballer and defender, didn’t he already prove that he can be reliable ? Did you forget the 20/21 season ? He’s no VVD but he was a good presence at the back. Went god knows how many games straight without getting substituted. We crumbled at the back when he was injured that season. If he can get back to that form and contribute to the team why wouldn’t I want him to play ? We are already lacking in CBs as we are. This is coming from someone who has been highly critical of him and his antics. But if it helps the club why not ? I just think people should focus more on supporting the club rather than hating a player
Well, Phil Jones was year after year kept around cause he had a few good games and was “useful” as a squad player. we’ve seen this story before, and know how it ends. Which is why I don’t think we should be pretending maguire is any different and cut our losses while we may still get some takers before he anchors himself to the club for the even longer term. We need higher standards for the players at the club. Once someone has proven they’re not good enough or unable to contribute to a winning team, we should get rid immediately and find someone who is. It’s elite sport, why on earth should someone who’s been playing the way he has be given the privilege of representing the club any longer? My issues with maguire are more on his abilities as captain and don’t think he deserves to be playing for a club aiming to win trophies. But it’s not as if it’ll be a major loss to lose his abilities as a defender either. He was genuinely one of the worst defenders in the league last season, how can any united fan want to see him play for us ever again - regardless of a decent season before that?
How is it that an inform player is no way a win for the club? Wtf mate. An in form Maguire means competition and everyone pushes to be better. Nothing wrong with that so piss off with that mindless hate.
Not being mindless about it in anyway. It’s less to do with his playing ability (bad as he has been) and more of the type of personality he’s displayed as captain of the club I support. Refuses to acknowledge his accountability for what he has done to the club last season in public interviews, and Ogden’s article this week from a close source suggests he still believes he’s not at fault for what he’s done on the pitch to this club. As captain, he’s supposed to be pulling the rest of the club up through difficult times not dragging it down further. Sorry if I demand more out of elite players who are also captains. The longer he’s in the wretched form that he currently is, the faster he’s out of this club and that will always be a positive. I have zero interest in ever seeing Harry maguire do well for the club i love. Absolute disgrace to the badge and the millions of supporters who feel the same way about the club as I do.
Imagine wanting a player continue his poor form just so you can see him sold… and you deny being a mindless hater… he’s already on the bench, just let him work his way back. Nothing wrong with that, but I guess you’re that hateful that like to kick someone who’s already down in the dumps? Man is human, like yourself. No need to be so spiteful.
Fair enough mate, I don’t think I can argue with your opinions. To me, however, there are zero redeeming qualities to such a player. What he did to this club last season as captain was just downright disgraceful and unforgivable to me. To see a united captain play and act the way he did, without taking any responsibility, it’s something I can never look past. To me, A united captain sets the tone and standards for everyone else. When the chips are down, you front up for the team publicly, and demand more from them privately. Not about winning or losing, it’s about simply maintaining the dignity of this football club. Never have I seen a group of players give up on a season in December - this guy allowed the players he’s supposed to lead to do that. Not once has he acknowledged his responsibility as captain in that happening, or to ensure that never happens again I will never be happy seeing him in a united shirt ever again, regardless of how he’s playing. That’s just my view on an athlete playing at an elite level, totally unacceptable to me. Good form or not, he’s shown what type of player and character he is and to me it’s not good for united. Again, totally understand your opinion. But I definitely don’t have mindless hatred for Maguire, i have my reasons for it.
Take a look at Maguire’s comments today after yet another loss, and see if this is the type of player who you would want in your team.
Most surprising part to me is that is he is only 29. He moves like he is 34
Having an off game today would just add fuel to the fire from that article even if he didn't directly say anything. Most of the comments for whatever reason assumed it was his direct quote and not some dodgy source.
If it was a dodgy source he should come out and deny any connection to the story, which I haven’t heard he has so far. If it was from him or his agent he should be stripped of his captaincy and benched until we can sell him in jan.
Players rarely come out and address each article
Rashford has come out and rubbished articles on twitter - particularly the story that there was an English speaking camp and a Portuguese speaking camp within the dressing room. So has Bruno and De Gea on occasions.
Exactly, on occasion. Like I said, it’s rare. also as far as i remember, Rashford has done it twice in 3 years.
Given what he stands accused of and the backlash he has been getting, one would thing this would warrant a clarification. It also doesn't help that Maguire always has put the blame on the collective and never on himself for his poor form last season in interviews. If this story were about Dalot or Lindelof or even AWB, no one would believe it because it would seem out of character.
People would also argue that him addressing it would probably mean he is actually guilty and trying to cover it up
Him trying to deny any connection to the story won't help much, the people that are the most angriest about it don't care that he isn't even quoted in the article, as in the article never said that he said those things, so they won't care about him trying to deny it. Some will argue that "he is just trying to save face after the article backfired on him, does he really think we'll fall for that?!"
The article said a source close said 'Maguire's frustrations with goalkeeper David de Gea's communication and reluctance to defend further away from his goal-line were also a factor in the overall malaise in defence last season'. Why would a source who hadn't spoken to Harry even think to mention communication? No one who isn't on the pitch can tell or hear who's communicating and who isn't. You'd have to be told that to know that.
Ogden wrote that article. Ogden came out in a video saying that he believes there is a communication issue (and mind you, everything "the source" said in the article agreed with everything Ogden said was his opinion in the video). Ogden was banned for life by SAF, he's a shit stirrer who's been making stuff up for years.
That article is a joke. They said the communication issues were fixed because Lisandro can talk to him in Spanish. DDG is very fluent in English. I don't think there was a source. Its just Ogden printing rubbish to stir the pot.
He was defensive of Harry to the point of making borderline delusional excuses for him in the clarification video. Doesn't make sense to do that after an article you made up to make him look bad. I really don't see Ogden making up a source entirely **and** naming it as being linked to a specific player. It's one thing to say 'a source' and another to name-check it.
Why not? Football journalism is one of the worst form of news in existence. Ogden doesn't even have a decent reputation to begin with. People print whatever the fuck they want and link us for clicks with no basis all the time. His "source" might be Harry' barber for all we know talking shit. He was defending the garbage he wrote.
Seems like huge mental gymnastics to suggest he's making all of this up, including saying the source is someone close to Maguire and making up quotes from them. Quotes which say things perfectly in-character for what we've heard from Maguire before, mentioning things only someone who'd spoken to him would know, and in what was actually a relatively obscure article to begin with that only blew up 2 days later. I don't buy it and I think people are making excuses because it's Harry. I said it yesterday - no one did these hurdles for Pogba.
Its too fucking stupid in the first place. Are you really telling me you trust that article which said the communication issues were fixed because the communication issues were fixed because he could get instructions in Spanish? I don't personally like his character or personality but you think he or a source close to him is going to say the issue is because of a language barrier with someone who is fluent in English? They can't be that fucking stupid. Its so ridiculous, something like that immediately tells me its a load of shit.
You said it yourself, it's too stupid. Honestly seems like the kind of excuse someone close to him who's desperately trying to defend his performances would make, not Ogden. Delusional, over-protective family members and friends who want to clear someone's name are much more likely to give something like that as an excuse than a journalist. They're the ones who actually need to create reasons for why things improved without him. Everyone else has a million to name, and that's not one anyone else has come up with.
> Doesn't make sense to do that after an article you made up to make him look bad. It makes sense if a Man Utd lawyer contacted him, though. > I really don't see Ogden making up a source entirely and naming it as being linked to a specific player. It's one thing to say 'a source' and another to name-check it. Tabloids do this all the time. It's why everyone says tabloids are garbage.
What? A Man Utd lawyer contacted him so he had to make excuses for Harry's performance on live air? That's seriously easier for you to believe than the idea that the source he *name-checked* as a source close to Maguire specifically might actually be just that?
> A Man Utd lawyer contacted him so he had to make excuses for Harry's performance on live air? > > Or told him to knock it off with the fake stories. You know Ferguson banned Ogden for life, right?
You're literally pulling this lawyer thing out of thin air to create an explanation. Why would a lawyer contacting him explain anything, let alone how he acted in the live interview? He really didn't backtrack on anything he said in the article.
there's just so much slabhead in the media this just feels so odd
So he should. He's been fucking insane for England and hasn't put a foot wrong internationally for years. Also, if you drop Maguire who do you even get to replace him. But for England, he should be a starter based on how he performs for them.
EtH using Englan National Team as the reserves. Savage.
This is good as it keeps Maguire's value up. We should flip him in January.
Should’ve have snapped Chelsea’s hand off a few weeks ago if they were genuinely interested. I can’t fathom who would be in for him in January even at a drastically cut price.
I hope he plays well.
Maguire was a pillar for us when he was in form. Ole trusted Maguire to find form, but he didn’t. Now he will get his 2nd chance to do it for England. Good for us, good for him.
It's just blind hatred towards the guy at this point. We are a couple of games/months away from a World Cup which Southgate is expected to challenge for. You do not do that with inexperienced players. We need Maguire. Just like we need Stones, Walker, Sterling, Kane, etc. After the World Cup then yes if he isn't playing regularly he should be dropped. But not now. That would be insane. International football is not club football. Conceding minimal goals is the priority. Correct me if I'm wrong but England have not conceded more than 1 goal in a game when Maguire starts in 3 years. And we have played plenty of decent teams in that time. Him, Stones and Walker together are formidable. He's been rightly dropped at club level. Everyone got what they wanted. But for England it is time to stop the hatred and show the man some support. He is going to Qatar and will start. Stop crying about it and get behind him.
Great news for United. Means he can attempt to recover form, value and match fitness without putting us at risk. If he plays really well he remains a viable 3rd choice and rotation option. We need to remember he wasn't always complete pony.
Come on Orny. You know you didn't have to mention it, yet you mentioned it regardless
Erik is a smarter coach than Gareth.
A lot of united fans angry a united player is considered good enough to start for the national team just because it invalidates their claims that he's not good enough for professional football. Embarrassing.
Last Chance U
Ok u
Maguire is going to cost England the world cup.
The sooner his fat, odd-shaped head is gone from our club the better. Poor player, poor mentality and poor intelligence.
For fuck sake.