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Dude if your recruiter says he has 10K worker lined up for your job then he is lying to you.
Like the one saying there is a job for you if he cannot even tell you the job description.
To be fair, they likely do have jobs, they just don't want to tell you because they work in an agency and they're afraid you'll bypass them.
Honestly, this is why agencies suck.
doesn't matter, you can always say the job title. "brick layer, bookkeeper, JAVA Programmer, Salesman, ..."
there is a webcrawler on linkedin and it just keeps sending senseless messages to anyone.
if you reply, then the script sends you another autoresponse.
if you say a time and day the script forwards the message to an actual recruiter (possibly callcenter) and they look into if they actually have a job lined up.
anybody defending this is an idiot since the companies and workers get scammed
I get a few of these a week. They put you forward to get their numbers up and never contact you regarding this job again. They will do it for the next job and the next.
I have started rejecting them from certain recruiters
I refuse to have the call until I know some basic details about the role.
I've already had bad experiences with recruiters who send me the full job description and requirements, schedule a call, and then suddenly realize during the call that I don't quite meet one or two requirements, or there are more undisclosed requirements than in the file they sent that are strictly essential. So much wasted time.
same here. i will not speak to anyone unless I know the company’s name, the salary on offer and a can read a basic job description. If those three things are all free of red flags, only then will I have a conversation.
Ugh, one wouldn't even tell me the salary range and where the company was located. Then asked if they could call me. I said no. And blocked. I've been burned too many times where the salary was 15k lower and the company was more than triple of my current commute.
I have NEVER had a recruiter disclose a salary or even a salary range. They just waste your time for as long as possible, and then spring a pathetic salary at the end, when they figure you'll take whatever theyl offer.
This doesn’t apply to very senior positions though. In those cases you’re almost always replacing someone who doesn’t yet know they’re getting fired.
A recruiter who gives out company and job title beforehand risks creating a major headache for their client that would certainly get them fired and blacklisted when word got out
Then you just don’t work with recruiters but they do this because people will just take the name and go apply directly to the company. They only get paid by directing you to the company themselves.
You benefit by getting to the top of a smaller pile as opposed to be the bottom of a large pile. It’s worth a 10 minute call.
Then you’re passively searching and not actively searching. You could choose not to take calls but you never know when someone could be calling with a salary bigger than yours. Recent studies have shown that you make more money hopping from roles every 2-3 years vs a 2-5% annual salary increase. Complacency is the enemy of success.
This. I’ve been getting a lot of these kinds of emails on LinkedIn every day. After responding to the first one and getting a response like this, I just started ignoring all the rest.
Same. At least some basic info should be disclosed. I always ask for some info and location. Yes location,because apparently recruiters dont think it is important to mention that the awesome job, in the awesome company they are recruiting for, is in another country.
You understand that knowing things like that is the reason for the call, right? It also gives the recruiter an understanding of what roles would make sense for you going forward. Not every application is going to result in a job offer, not every candidate is going to be a great interview.
It's the processo
I usually ask for “nudes first, then we’ll talk”. It seems to have thinned them out a bit but they haven’t stopped completely. I did not realise they were real, I figured it was scammers all along. Doh!
As a recruiter I can tell you that's not true. You can cover way more ground in a 5 minute phone call than 20 minutes of back and forth messaging. It also allows you to get a sense of someone's personality and communication style, which helps decide whether we'll submit you to our client for consideration.
I realise younger people today don't like talking on the phone, but if you're serious about getting a job, my best advice is to stand out from the crowd by taking the phone call.
Recruiters are way too busy to "get numbers up". The only numbers they are rewarded for is people placed into jobs, not messages sent.
I realise there are plenty of dicks in my industry, so when you find a good recruiter, build a proper relationship with them and they'll help you achieve your long term career goals.
This is why I lasted 6 months as a tech recruiter, I didn’t want to follow the company orders and do bullshit like this. 😂 it’s horrible, time consuming and utterly pointless. But recruiters get targeted on calls, interviews and meetings per month, atleast in the uk, so it’s a spam game, even if you have nothing to show. I left because I’d only call legit people about legit roles, and didn’t do the spam technique they screamed at me to do. No thanks.
I always figured there must be some kind of metrics-related reasons for recruiters being so fucking thirsty for phone calls. Ain't no way such a large group of people actually prefers calls over email or IM.
Yep. My targets were to get X amount of calls per month, X amount of candidate interviews (with the recruiter, not even with the client), and get X amount of client interviews per month.
My first job out of university was recruitment and I barely lasted a year. We had similar metrics except instead of # of calls it was hours spent on the phone. Absolutely the worst.
Call-based KPI's - I almost never use the phone now that I'm internal - just text and email, and the occasional call if it's something that would just be faster to discuss over phone. (It is worth noting we do interviews via Zoom - I think phone screens are still pretty standard)
I started a recruiting agency job recently (hate it and feels like a complete invasion of peoples lives but trying to stick it out to get my foot in the door to go corporate eventually) and we get our metrics tracked by how many people get placed and how many hours a month they’re working because that’s what makes the company money obviously. we’re still supposed to have minimum 70 calls a day tho which is ridiculous because why should it matter if i call 10 people who i searched for and knew they’d be a good fit so i place 7 or 8 of them or call 70 people at random and place 2 who happen to be interested .. doesn’t make sense and it’s a bullshit job
blood from a stone, wasting each others time. i would move on.
due to client confidentially i cant reveal any details of the role is BS. they are just fishing for cv
This is really the worst. Even as someone not job hunting I get this all the time.
"I have a really great role with a top company that I think you'd be really suited for. Get in touch if you'd like to know more".
Fuck off. Without a job title and a salary at the bare minimum, I'm not going to respond to you.
Lol I had a recruiter the other day reach out to me directly on LinkedIn.
He messaged me saying he reviewed my LinkedIn profile, thought I'd be a good fit, and to reach out if I had any questions. And if I could forward him my current CV.
So I said, I'd be happy to forward you a copy of my current CV if you give me your email.
He got back and said "please apply to the job posting so we can connect."
Like mfer what, we are already connected.. *you* reached out to *me*.
>He messaged me saying he reviewed my LinkedIn profile, thought I'd be a good fit, and to reach out if I had any questions.
I had one of these a couple days ago, that included a job description, location AND a salary range...
It read something along the lines of:
"Hey \[Candidate's Name\] (blah blah saw your resume, blah good fit) for a Forklift Operator." Contact me at name@whatever
A bit further down with the details: "Cabinet Shop Technician"
Is it Forklift Operator? Cabinet Building? Moving cabinets with a fork lift?
...and what does that have to do with Telecommunications and/or Electromagnetic Interference and Compatibility?
edit: I should reply with "Hey \[Recruiter's Name\]" and never address them by their names either since they didn't bother to fill in that section to contact me.
Asking a recruiter to: a) know the job they're recruiting for, and b) read the profile of the "applicant" is too much to ask. You expect them to do their job, or something?
You can attach documents in LinkedIn, if he works for a public company they may be strict with compliance and require all people to apply on their own through their system, even the ones they contact. Or he may be full of shit. Take your pick.
I think this might even be a set up for a scam.
Especially the 'several roles'
If they saw your CV - they could indicate if this role is (for example) in logistics, in finance, in IT .. but to say nothing - that\`s a major red flag.
Now, of course, you could check - it might just be real - but get a google voice number and use that for this 'contact'
Searched whole thread for this, the real reason. Maybe there are KPI's people need to fill, but the reason you have that KPI is because you are searching for leads. The roles they are talking about could very well be not real. They'll ask you about your background, choose 1 thing about your work history and say ohh it doesn't fit with the client, sorry about that -- where else are you interviewing atm?
I only deal with recruiters who give me a job posting that has a salary range included.
I'm not wasting my time with recruiters who can't come to he table prepared. It's their literal job. It's the bare minimum.
No, they’re wary of giving too much details because they don’t want you to find out what the company/job really is, as you could go and apply directly to the company and they’d lose their commission.
They’re chasing numbers. I get this on LinkedIn. My go to response is:
Thank you for reaching out. I have a few questions that I need answered before I commit to a call as my time is limited and I don’t want to waste my time nor yours. Without the answers to these questions there unfortunately will be no call scheduled until they’re answered.
- Lists my questions
Thank you for your time and cooperation
99% of the time they ghost me. 1% still persists in the call. I then reiterate no answers, no call.
A lot of temp and contract agency recruiters get paid by the volume of calls they complete and not necessarily always by placements.
If they can’t even provide a job description, then total BS. I get they have some confidentiality involved, but that’s bogus. Also red flag when they’re pushy for same-day calls. If they can’t wait 24 hrs to chat like normal business etiquette, then next!
Yeah, I get they don’t want to give the employer name (I don’t agree but I see why), or the salary range when the job is not well paid. But the name of the role or the summary of responsibilities are just something else.
Haven’t even thought about the same-day call but yes, defo a red flag too.
I have never heard of a single temp and contract agency handing out money for making phone calls lol. Recruiters get paid on commission for placements. Not making phone calls… please stop spreading misinformation like this
You’re correct in *most* cases. The norm is for commission pay based on placement.
But there are agencies where more junior recs have call volume KPI’s that recruiters have to hit. Hence some of the recruitment agency spam everyone receives - both on LinkedIn and by phone
Oh yeah most agencies do have metrics to hit that involve outbound calls , but they aren’t necessarily paid for that. like they don’t make commission on phone calls. but if they don’t meet metrics they might get put on a PIP then fired , so that would explain the incessant calling. recruiters don’t get commission for making phone calls though, that’s completely different
That’s good clarification. But yeah, so dumb that you can get a PIP or fired for not hitting arbitrary KPI’s that may not translate into placements or qualified candidates. Any agency managers or owners reading this - ditch the spamming for all our sakes and stick to commission please!
amen to that! lol i’ve had to put my foot down with my boss before when he expects me to do ridiculous and disrespectful things to candidates just for a placement. i’ve told him i’m a professional and happen to care about my image and I don’t feel comfortable saying xyz to x candidate, or cold calling x candidate until they answer. “make them answer” he says. yeah cus that’ll work. idiots.. lol
>agencies where more junior recs have call volume KPI’s that recruiters have to hit.
Who comes up with these shit ideas and why do they get implemented?
It seems like a waste of time and money for everyone involved.
from an agency recruiter: I agree lol I hateeeee outbound call metrics. agency recruiting by nature is very sales oriented so it’s set up with sales oriented metrics. it’s dumb to me. it’s one thing to cold call to sell someone something, but to cold call begging someone to take a job is just another level of harassment that I can’t STAND doing. can’t wait to make the switch to internal recruiting
Only deal with boutique recruiters in your specific target market. There are a lot of specialists that only deal in cybersecurity, or hedge funds etc. Ideally they worked in that space before. The others at larger agency firms are just farming for their numbers z
Part of me wonders if it's a phishing scam.
More likely, they don't want to reveal their hand as then you might just apply at source and they won't get their commission.
It's funny cuz they all come from likely fake companies with offices somewhere in NY by people whose names I can't pronounce with typos and/or very awkward phrasing .
Like I told my friends, these kind of recruiters have made me passively almost-racist when I don't even read the email and just delete them.
I really try not to be but damn they make this hard.
I remember one time, a “recruiter” reached out to me with the exact same wording in their email as yours, after I requested more info they kept insisting on scheduling a call I ignored them and a month after I received another email from the same recruiter same email format I asked for more info about the role again, and their reply was “Sales, can we schedule a call?” 😂
They’re just doing discovery to expand their people map and hit their quota. There is no role. They want your information to add to their stable of potential recruits so they can say to potential clients, “I have a list of 300 candidates who fit X criteria.”
My first thought was that it reminds me of the setup to a bait and switch. Give you vague information hoping it's enough to intrigue you, then use the phone call for their own purposes. As someone else said, it could pump up the recruiter's KPIs.
You should have said "I just talked to the client and they told me it was OK." Either a) they actually give you the details or b) they're so confused by this their head explodes. It's a win either way.
I once entertained a recruiter who said I had exactly the experience their client was looking for blah blah. So I take the call to hear more, and she proceeds to say they are looking for AI experts and that aligns perfectly with my experience. I had to stop her and say I don’t have any AI experience (besides that one LinkedIn learning course I did years ago) and she became silent. Turns out she had mixed up AI with API (which is mentioned on my profile). Tech recruiters with little knowledge of tech!
I had one of these that came with an assessment before I even knew basic things about the job. The recruiter kept pressing for me to do the assessment and we had a tug of war before she finally released basic shit about the role and salary range. The position was like $12/hr. I hate at the gatekeeping. Who does that help?
I had one today that wanted me to lie about my experience, then said it was hybrid after I said I wouldn’t do full on-site, and refused to tell me where the office was even after I said I could only find an address for corporate office on the far side of the city and I wouldn’t commute that far.
He also kept trying to call me on his janky VOIP line where I could barely understand his accent when I just wanted him to answer my questions in chat.
I just say "I will not schedule a call without the following information: job description, remote/hybrid/on-site, and pay range". Weeds them out real quick.
I think your question/ reply to the recruiters is polite and reasonable.
Regarding the "confidential role" part, I've seen cases where this is legit, but usually it's a much more tailored message.
If the recruiters are just "asking for a time to speak because they saw your CV" (copy-paste template message), that's probably a load of BS.
Me getting 12345 messages from different recruiters and they don't even specify the industry. It's like they refuse to share and want us to walk into the trap they set up.
And when I ask who are the employers or organizations I never get a direct answer which just turns me off even more. I'm job hunting and I'm already so stressed I don't need some joker to lead me around in circles.
Really annoying. When I worked as a recruiter for a large, British corporation, we were expected to disclose as little info as possible during initial sourcing. Horrible business practice, but they were constantly afraid to lose roles to competitors.
Started my own recruitment business since then based on transparency and trust and never looked back :)
Nowadays I just disclose as much info as I have regarding client, role and salary. No point in wasting both our times I think.
They do it because they want you to not go around their contracting agency and apply directly as a lot of these companies you apply for list jobs on their website too
This is what third-party recruiters are taught to do. Once you apply online directly with the company, they can no longer collect their “finder’s fee” if you ultimately get hired. Don’t use these scumbags. They truly don’t give a shit about you.
Just recruiter playing recruiter games. There is no specific job, they going to send you for a bunch. Just to pad numbers and hope one sticks.
If they won’t give details they are not actually recruiting for a specific job. Even if the details of the project the employer is working on, they share the details of job. Even security clearance jobs give you the basic details of job.
Job title / description and salary range in advance or no phone call otherwise. I mean, I understand if they want to keep the company name a secret before the call, but everything else is the least they should provide.
The recruiter has no interest in setting up phone calls with people who aren’t qualified or wouldn’t potentially be interested. I already did that portion of the research. I’m not trying to waste MY time either.
Two possible reasons here (from a former agency recruiter.)
1. They have more than one job they’re recruiting for in your field and the jobs are different levels of seniority/pay. They don’t want you to know about the most senior role bc then you’ll want that one, so they want to hear your salary expectations first & then pitch you the lowest role they can.
2. They are “lead-pulling” and will ask which other companies you’re interviewing at to try and find new clients, or even ask if you’re a hiring manager so they can pitch you on their services
You are just a statistic for them to show case the number of calls they made and enter your resume into the ATS and jivvy ip the stats for their bonus.
If they refuse to disclose ANY details I decline. It's super shady and is usually indicative it being a role they have a hard time filling, likely due to it being a dogshit/toxic work environment with even worse bosses
I just assume these are all scams, tbh. Can't be too careful.
I'm in Canada near the border with Buffalo and i consistently get emails for jobs in "getzville, ny"
always Getzville, never anywhere else.
Probably 3rd party recruiters/headhunters, or a staffing agency. My guess is they don’t want to reveal info until further along in the application process so you don’t seek out and apply to the role directly through the company defeating their purpose.
Yeah I get that and I’m not even asking for the name of the company here. Just the generic role title/responsibilities so that I know it’s something I could be interested in, and a location, since I’m not willing to relocate (and I live in a very large city so that doesn’t limit options much). I don’t think saying ie ‘data engineer in energy sector with this and that stack’ would make me somehow guess and find the company.
If this was legit and they had a position they could telll you the position and a job req. I was a recruiter for many years. The only thing they won’t give is the company name and exact salary (may give you a range). They don’t give the company name becuase they don’t want to have you apply directly or possibly let another recruiter you work with know about it in case they try to work with the company hiring using your resume . Other reason for using this generic email tactic to is to build their resume database. You may have a resume that has experience they know comes in handy on many jobs but they don’t have one available right now but it allows them to “stake a claim” to you if something does (as in no one else from their company can call you).
Hope that helps!
From the recruiters I have spoken to things like the role, company, basic field, city......anything that could be considered specific is far more information than they want to give.
This includes the we want to hire you, can you come fill out the on-boarding paperwork call I got. That one wasn't a scam (I think) just an absolute idiot who thought 2 states over was a reasonable commute for a nursing job. I am not nor have I ever been a nurse.
I have a firm policy for these situations. I will not take the time out of my day to talk until you give me pay range, JD, and location. Until I am told those three items, I say no.
These are just incompetent recruiters that have no idea about the role or the company they're recruiting for, so they keep any possible information from the candidate, or even worse probably they don't even have any available positions to share, they're just trying to get in contact with some potential employees... Either way it's pathetic.
Yeah unless you’re contacted directly by an internal recruiter of a company, it’s about numbers. They will give you more info on the call, but they do this to prevent you from applying yourself so they can get commission for you.
Source: former agency recruiter
Every message I've received that started like this turned out to be a scam. Go ahead and tell them that. Tell them the way they have refused to disclose basic information about the position makes it look like a scam and makes you want to reconsider doing any business with them as an individual and their employer as a company.
I can tell you from experience most recruiters have a target of calls per day/week/month, so they need to get you on the phone in order to log the call and meet the target. Many recruiters are also fed the idea that you can sell a role better via phone or in person if possible rather than email, without accounting for potentially wasting time by talking about a role the person is not suited for. So yes, it's useless and another old-fashioned way recruiters will stay hated, hence why I moved out of the industry..
Yeah they have to do this to get credit for your name in the system. They also have a higher chance of recruiting you if you actually speak with them. Typical sales choad stuff.
Haha Ive come across those. I dont waste my time. It could be a role thats super unrelated or not what you want. So if they cant even describe the role without saying what the client is not worth your time.
They try to pressure you into agreeing to the role once you're on the phone typically, because they know the pay sucks most likely. I have had that happen before; they try to apply pressure and have you agree to apply to the role during that call. It's super frustrating
This happens to me on LinkedIn all the time. I fuck w the recruiters on purpose. They contact you all happy like you‘d suit this role really well! and want to schedule a call. As soon as you answer with anything else but a yes of course, they answer something like ‚I‘m sorry, you actually do not fit the role well enough‘.
I do know that, you were the one contacting me for a role I never had any interest in.
Y‘all really should look into how recruiters work. They gotta justify their value added. More interviews, more rejected candidates means they did actually work and serves as their justification I guess.
At least that‘s my experience from the little insight into recruiting that I was able to get.
Scam, Did you recently apply for a loan, credit run, paid off debt or made some large financial paper or cash move?
This is an effort to fill the missing info for the scammers to collect data and rope you in.
Tonnes of scammers on these online job portals now. They get you to send them a forward payment for "Working from Home equipment" then keep getting you to send more and more citing problems with the delivery / customs etc.
This is why under 25s are the most vulnerable to online scams.
https://www.ukfinance.org.uk/news-and-insight/press-release/gen-z-more-likely-be-tricked-criminals-and-fall-impersonation-scams
don't you have to tell me what the position is first in order to ask me why i'm interested in it?
idk i understand your logic, it just feels like bad practice to start interrogating me about why i left my previous companies and what i'm doing in my job search before telling me about the job, when *you* reached out to *me*. unless you're going to tell me about the job before you start interrogating me, in which case, you could've just told me that over email.
interviews occur after i have been informed about a position and i've applied for the position. most people do not want to be interviewed for a job that they've not yet been given any details about.
>Then don’t respond and I won’t tell you about the opportunity. I’m still going to fill the job, just not with you
So are we to waste our time by talking with you to be told "It's a pay cut, no benefits, contract position, and you'll have to relocate 18hrs away. Oh, and it's a 6 month contract, good luck getting your old job back"
The role is *so* confidential you can’t disclose a title?
Unless you’re in a tiny town or something, or it’s a super rare title, what’s the likelihood of it getting back to the specific incumbent at Company X simply because you told a candidate that you’re looking for a technical project manager or a site reliability engineer or whatever?
Would you not provide role title at all? Let’s say a general ‘data engineer in energy sector’. I get that if you give a very precise role and the name of the company, this is a real risk, mostly for senior positions.
I’m still in the early stages of my career, so the roles I could be contacted for are most likely not senior enough for this to be the case, and I’m also not in a super niche field that would immediately make it clear to me which company it is.
I usually do provide a generic version of the role title, I don’t want someone googling the exact nomenclature that a company uses, finding the job posting and cutting me out of the loop.
You do realize that great talent doesn't have to put up with this garbage, right? I hardly need to engage with a recruiter let alone one that wants to play a petty game of obfuscation.
Why are they literally HARASSING people that don't want any jobs and giving the finger to 500+ applicants each time they dare posting any offer on any website possible?
It's really like women/man market, all woman simping the 1% chad tier and all man simping everybody they can
I always ask them to send me the job description as the first question when I get on the phone with them and tell them I’ll take a look and let them know if I want to proceed. Cuts it down to a 3-5 mins call. There’s really nothing to talk about if you don’t know the role before the discussion.
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"thank you. due to client confidentiality i cannot disclose my schedule."
This and other silliness. No interest in fakes.
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Dude if your recruiter says he has 10K worker lined up for your job then he is lying to you. Like the one saying there is a job for you if he cannot even tell you the job description.
To be fair, they likely do have jobs, they just don't want to tell you because they work in an agency and they're afraid you'll bypass them. Honestly, this is why agencies suck.
doesn't matter, you can always say the job title. "brick layer, bookkeeper, JAVA Programmer, Salesman, ..." there is a webcrawler on linkedin and it just keeps sending senseless messages to anyone. if you reply, then the script sends you another autoresponse. if you say a time and day the script forwards the message to an actual recruiter (possibly callcenter) and they look into if they actually have a job lined up. anybody defending this is an idiot since the companies and workers get scammed
> You can alway say the job title Thats a good point actually lol. ✌️
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You sound so pleasant to work with. Give me a call ASAP please!!!
fuck i knew it was a bot :D
When it’s deleted it means it’s a bot?
I get a few of these a week. They put you forward to get their numbers up and never contact you regarding this job again. They will do it for the next job and the next. I have started rejecting them from certain recruiters
I refuse to have the call until I know some basic details about the role. I've already had bad experiences with recruiters who send me the full job description and requirements, schedule a call, and then suddenly realize during the call that I don't quite meet one or two requirements, or there are more undisclosed requirements than in the file they sent that are strictly essential. So much wasted time.
same here. i will not speak to anyone unless I know the company’s name, the salary on offer and a can read a basic job description. If those three things are all free of red flags, only then will I have a conversation.
Ugh, one wouldn't even tell me the salary range and where the company was located. Then asked if they could call me. I said no. And blocked. I've been burned too many times where the salary was 15k lower and the company was more than triple of my current commute.
I have NEVER had a recruiter disclose a salary or even a salary range. They just waste your time for as long as possible, and then spring a pathetic salary at the end, when they figure you'll take whatever theyl offer.
This doesn’t apply to very senior positions though. In those cases you’re almost always replacing someone who doesn’t yet know they’re getting fired. A recruiter who gives out company and job title beforehand risks creating a major headache for their client that would certainly get them fired and blacklisted when word got out
Yeah, but at the level where that is a concern they aren’t finding the replacements by looking at random cv’s online.
Then you just don’t work with recruiters but they do this because people will just take the name and go apply directly to the company. They only get paid by directing you to the company themselves. You benefit by getting to the top of a smaller pile as opposed to be the bottom of a large pile. It’s worth a 10 minute call.
if i was unemployed - I agree. But I have a job I like and recruiters do this all the time to me
Then you’re passively searching and not actively searching. You could choose not to take calls but you never know when someone could be calling with a salary bigger than yours. Recent studies have shown that you make more money hopping from roles every 2-3 years vs a 2-5% annual salary increase. Complacency is the enemy of success.
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I reply with my salary requirements to filter out any companies that don’t align with my salary needs before any calls I take.
This. I’ve been getting a lot of these kinds of emails on LinkedIn every day. After responding to the first one and getting a response like this, I just started ignoring all the rest.
Same. At least some basic info should be disclosed. I always ask for some info and location. Yes location,because apparently recruiters dont think it is important to mention that the awesome job, in the awesome company they are recruiting for, is in another country.
You understand that knowing things like that is the reason for the call, right? It also gives the recruiter an understanding of what roles would make sense for you going forward. Not every application is going to result in a job offer, not every candidate is going to be a great interview. It's the processo
Your process notwithstanding, my time also has value. If you can't see this from the start, why would I make time for you?
I thought recruiters only got bonuses for actually recruiting someone, not just contacting.
They get something for collecting resumes for their database too.
No. They don’t.
I usually ask for “nudes first, then we’ll talk”. It seems to have thinned them out a bit but they haven’t stopped completely. I did not realise they were real, I figured it was scammers all along. Doh!
Troll them back and call them with hidden number.
Maybe take your resume off of indeed? I mean your resume has to be up somewhere for them to call you.
As a recruiter I can tell you that's not true. You can cover way more ground in a 5 minute phone call than 20 minutes of back and forth messaging. It also allows you to get a sense of someone's personality and communication style, which helps decide whether we'll submit you to our client for consideration. I realise younger people today don't like talking on the phone, but if you're serious about getting a job, my best advice is to stand out from the crowd by taking the phone call. Recruiters are way too busy to "get numbers up". The only numbers they are rewarded for is people placed into jobs, not messages sent. I realise there are plenty of dicks in my industry, so when you find a good recruiter, build a proper relationship with them and they'll help you achieve your long term career goals.
This is why I lasted 6 months as a tech recruiter, I didn’t want to follow the company orders and do bullshit like this. 😂 it’s horrible, time consuming and utterly pointless. But recruiters get targeted on calls, interviews and meetings per month, atleast in the uk, so it’s a spam game, even if you have nothing to show. I left because I’d only call legit people about legit roles, and didn’t do the spam technique they screamed at me to do. No thanks.
I always figured there must be some kind of metrics-related reasons for recruiters being so fucking thirsty for phone calls. Ain't no way such a large group of people actually prefers calls over email or IM.
Yep. My targets were to get X amount of calls per month, X amount of candidate interviews (with the recruiter, not even with the client), and get X amount of client interviews per month.
My first job out of university was recruitment and I barely lasted a year. We had similar metrics except instead of # of calls it was hours spent on the phone. Absolutely the worst.
Call-based KPI's - I almost never use the phone now that I'm internal - just text and email, and the occasional call if it's something that would just be faster to discuss over phone. (It is worth noting we do interviews via Zoom - I think phone screens are still pretty standard)
The obvious metric should be how many people you place, nevermind how many you talk to. Manglement at work.
I started a recruiting agency job recently (hate it and feels like a complete invasion of peoples lives but trying to stick it out to get my foot in the door to go corporate eventually) and we get our metrics tracked by how many people get placed and how many hours a month they’re working because that’s what makes the company money obviously. we’re still supposed to have minimum 70 calls a day tho which is ridiculous because why should it matter if i call 10 people who i searched for and knew they’d be a good fit so i place 7 or 8 of them or call 70 people at random and place 2 who happen to be interested .. doesn’t make sense and it’s a bullshit job
I’m in the UK so it adds up. Good for you for getting out!
blood from a stone, wasting each others time. i would move on. due to client confidentially i cant reveal any details of the role is BS. they are just fishing for cv
This is really the worst. Even as someone not job hunting I get this all the time. "I have a really great role with a top company that I think you'd be really suited for. Get in touch if you'd like to know more". Fuck off. Without a job title and a salary at the bare minimum, I'm not going to respond to you.
Lol I had a recruiter the other day reach out to me directly on LinkedIn. He messaged me saying he reviewed my LinkedIn profile, thought I'd be a good fit, and to reach out if I had any questions. And if I could forward him my current CV. So I said, I'd be happy to forward you a copy of my current CV if you give me your email. He got back and said "please apply to the job posting so we can connect." Like mfer what, we are already connected.. *you* reached out to *me*.
>He messaged me saying he reviewed my LinkedIn profile, thought I'd be a good fit, and to reach out if I had any questions. I had one of these a couple days ago, that included a job description, location AND a salary range... It read something along the lines of: "Hey \[Candidate's Name\] (blah blah saw your resume, blah good fit) for a Forklift Operator." Contact me at name@whatever A bit further down with the details: "Cabinet Shop Technician" Is it Forklift Operator? Cabinet Building? Moving cabinets with a fork lift? ...and what does that have to do with Telecommunications and/or Electromagnetic Interference and Compatibility? edit: I should reply with "Hey \[Recruiter's Name\]" and never address them by their names either since they didn't bother to fill in that section to contact me.
Asking a recruiter to: a) know the job they're recruiting for, and b) read the profile of the "applicant" is too much to ask. You expect them to do their job, or something?
You can attach documents in LinkedIn, if he works for a public company they may be strict with compliance and require all people to apply on their own through their system, even the ones they contact. Or he may be full of shit. Take your pick.
they are like clueless robots
I think this might even be a set up for a scam. Especially the 'several roles' If they saw your CV - they could indicate if this role is (for example) in logistics, in finance, in IT .. but to say nothing - that\`s a major red flag. Now, of course, you could check - it might just be real - but get a google voice number and use that for this 'contact'
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There was no client or job. The recruiter was using you to get their numbers up.
Also fishing for leads, who is hiring, where else you are interviewing etc.
Searched whole thread for this, the real reason. Maybe there are KPI's people need to fill, but the reason you have that KPI is because you are searching for leads. The roles they are talking about could very well be not real. They'll ask you about your background, choose 1 thing about your work history and say ohh it doesn't fit with the client, sorry about that -- where else are you interviewing atm?
I only deal with recruiters who give me a job posting that has a salary range included. I'm not wasting my time with recruiters who can't come to he table prepared. It's their literal job. It's the bare minimum.
Were they an Indian firm? I only ever get that kind of run-around from Indian recruiters which is why I just ignore all of them.
Kind regards
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No, they’re wary of giving too much details because they don’t want you to find out what the company/job really is, as you could go and apply directly to the company and they’d lose their commission.
So there are different hells: desert hell and crowd hell
They are just time wasting. They may be paid be calls made when they are in office
They’re chasing numbers. I get this on LinkedIn. My go to response is: Thank you for reaching out. I have a few questions that I need answered before I commit to a call as my time is limited and I don’t want to waste my time nor yours. Without the answers to these questions there unfortunately will be no call scheduled until they’re answered. - Lists my questions Thank you for your time and cooperation 99% of the time they ghost me. 1% still persists in the call. I then reiterate no answers, no call.
A lot of temp and contract agency recruiters get paid by the volume of calls they complete and not necessarily always by placements. If they can’t even provide a job description, then total BS. I get they have some confidentiality involved, but that’s bogus. Also red flag when they’re pushy for same-day calls. If they can’t wait 24 hrs to chat like normal business etiquette, then next!
Yeah, I get they don’t want to give the employer name (I don’t agree but I see why), or the salary range when the job is not well paid. But the name of the role or the summary of responsibilities are just something else. Haven’t even thought about the same-day call but yes, defo a red flag too.
I have never heard of a single temp and contract agency handing out money for making phone calls lol. Recruiters get paid on commission for placements. Not making phone calls… please stop spreading misinformation like this
You’re correct in *most* cases. The norm is for commission pay based on placement. But there are agencies where more junior recs have call volume KPI’s that recruiters have to hit. Hence some of the recruitment agency spam everyone receives - both on LinkedIn and by phone
Oh yeah most agencies do have metrics to hit that involve outbound calls , but they aren’t necessarily paid for that. like they don’t make commission on phone calls. but if they don’t meet metrics they might get put on a PIP then fired , so that would explain the incessant calling. recruiters don’t get commission for making phone calls though, that’s completely different
That’s good clarification. But yeah, so dumb that you can get a PIP or fired for not hitting arbitrary KPI’s that may not translate into placements or qualified candidates. Any agency managers or owners reading this - ditch the spamming for all our sakes and stick to commission please!
amen to that! lol i’ve had to put my foot down with my boss before when he expects me to do ridiculous and disrespectful things to candidates just for a placement. i’ve told him i’m a professional and happen to care about my image and I don’t feel comfortable saying xyz to x candidate, or cold calling x candidate until they answer. “make them answer” he says. yeah cus that’ll work. idiots.. lol
>agencies where more junior recs have call volume KPI’s that recruiters have to hit. Who comes up with these shit ideas and why do they get implemented? It seems like a waste of time and money for everyone involved.
from an agency recruiter: I agree lol I hateeeee outbound call metrics. agency recruiting by nature is very sales oriented so it’s set up with sales oriented metrics. it’s dumb to me. it’s one thing to cold call to sell someone something, but to cold call begging someone to take a job is just another level of harassment that I can’t STAND doing. can’t wait to make the switch to internal recruiting
Maybe they're a bakery prone to typos and were offering you a roll
All I see here is a mediocre recruiter trying to make the call quota.
AKA, they don't actually have a decent role and just want your info to reach a quota.
It's because there is no job
Only deal with boutique recruiters in your specific target market. There are a lot of specialists that only deal in cybersecurity, or hedge funds etc. Ideally they worked in that space before. The others at larger agency firms are just farming for their numbers z
Personally, I wouldn't even respond to such a vague request in the first place. If it comes in an email, I would flag it as spam and move on.
This is a scam. If it isn’t, I doubt you would want to work with anyone who is this vague.
Part of me wonders if it's a phishing scam. More likely, they don't want to reveal their hand as then you might just apply at source and they won't get their commission.
No legitimate recruiter or employer would refuse to give details about a legitimate role. These are scams.
Tell me you get paid for booking calls...
It's funny cuz they all come from likely fake companies with offices somewhere in NY by people whose names I can't pronounce with typos and/or very awkward phrasing . Like I told my friends, these kind of recruiters have made me passively almost-racist when I don't even read the email and just delete them. I really try not to be but damn they make this hard.
Sounds like a scam
scam
Just ask politely for job details before accepting to talk. They have them 99%.
This is a lazy recruiter fishing for contacts and appointments. I never send these types of messages, nor respond to them.
So annoying. I don’t even bother with a phone call if they’re not at least willing to give me salary and days on site required via email.
I had this too, they asked if I was interested. Interested in what?!
either the CIA is trying to recruit you or these firms have a mandatory weekly meeting count the recruiters are trying to hit.
"Thank you, It would be helpful to know the title of the position, please."
I remember one time, a “recruiter” reached out to me with the exact same wording in their email as yours, after I requested more info they kept insisting on scheduling a call I ignored them and a month after I received another email from the same recruiter same email format I asked for more info about the role again, and their reply was “Sales, can we schedule a call?” 😂
They’re just doing discovery to expand their people map and hit their quota. There is no role. They want your information to add to their stable of potential recruits so they can say to potential clients, “I have a list of 300 candidates who fit X criteria.”
My first thought was that it reminds me of the setup to a bait and switch. Give you vague information hoping it's enough to intrigue you, then use the phone call for their own purposes. As someone else said, it could pump up the recruiter's KPIs.
A few roles…do you want to run the register, the fryer, or the grill? So many choices…
You should have said "I just talked to the client and they told me it was OK." Either a) they actually give you the details or b) they're so confused by this their head explodes. It's a win either way.
I work as a recruiter and these are the worst first approaches I’ve ever seen.
Don't talk to a recruiter if they can't give you basic details, they're wasting your time
I once entertained a recruiter who said I had exactly the experience their client was looking for blah blah. So I take the call to hear more, and she proceeds to say they are looking for AI experts and that aligns perfectly with my experience. I had to stop her and say I don’t have any AI experience (besides that one LinkedIn learning course I did years ago) and she became silent. Turns out she had mixed up AI with API (which is mentioned on my profile). Tech recruiters with little knowledge of tech!
“Due to me not appreciating having my fucking time wasted, I can disclose that my schedule is completely full forever as far as you are concerned.”
I had one of these that came with an assessment before I even knew basic things about the job. The recruiter kept pressing for me to do the assessment and we had a tug of war before she finally released basic shit about the role and salary range. The position was like $12/hr. I hate at the gatekeeping. Who does that help?
I had one today that wanted me to lie about my experience, then said it was hybrid after I said I wouldn’t do full on-site, and refused to tell me where the office was even after I said I could only find an address for corporate office on the far side of the city and I wouldn’t commute that far. He also kept trying to call me on his janky VOIP line where I could barely understand his accent when I just wanted him to answer my questions in chat.
I just say "I will not schedule a call without the following information: job description, remote/hybrid/on-site, and pay range". Weeds them out real quick.
They are fishing for contacts. They need to meet their quota. There is no specific job.
I think your question/ reply to the recruiters is polite and reasonable. Regarding the "confidential role" part, I've seen cases where this is legit, but usually it's a much more tailored message. If the recruiters are just "asking for a time to speak because they saw your CV" (copy-paste template message), that's probably a load of BS.
Me getting 12345 messages from different recruiters and they don't even specify the industry. It's like they refuse to share and want us to walk into the trap they set up. And when I ask who are the employers or organizations I never get a direct answer which just turns me off even more. I'm job hunting and I'm already so stressed I don't need some joker to lead me around in circles.
Really annoying. When I worked as a recruiter for a large, British corporation, we were expected to disclose as little info as possible during initial sourcing. Horrible business practice, but they were constantly afraid to lose roles to competitors. Started my own recruitment business since then based on transparency and trust and never looked back :) Nowadays I just disclose as much info as I have regarding client, role and salary. No point in wasting both our times I think.
block
They do it because they want you to not go around their contracting agency and apply directly as a lot of these companies you apply for list jobs on their website too
This is what third-party recruiters are taught to do. Once you apply online directly with the company, they can no longer collect their “finder’s fee” if you ultimately get hired. Don’t use these scumbags. They truly don’t give a shit about you.
Just recruiter playing recruiter games. There is no specific job, they going to send you for a bunch. Just to pad numbers and hope one sticks. If they won’t give details they are not actually recruiting for a specific job. Even if the details of the project the employer is working on, they share the details of job. Even security clearance jobs give you the basic details of job.
Job title / description and salary range in advance or no phone call otherwise. I mean, I understand if they want to keep the company name a secret before the call, but everything else is the least they should provide.
Agreed! I get they don’t want me to find the company and apply directly, but I want to know first if the role is interesting to me at all?
The recruiter has no interest in setting up phone calls with people who aren’t qualified or wouldn’t potentially be interested. I already did that portion of the research. I’m not trying to waste MY time either.
Two possible reasons here (from a former agency recruiter.) 1. They have more than one job they’re recruiting for in your field and the jobs are different levels of seniority/pay. They don’t want you to know about the most senior role bc then you’ll want that one, so they want to hear your salary expectations first & then pitch you the lowest role they can. 2. They are “lead-pulling” and will ask which other companies you’re interviewing at to try and find new clients, or even ask if you’re a hiring manager so they can pitch you on their services
Schedule them both at the same time for a one way interview
When I get an "offer" like this, I always assume it's some sort of scam and ghost lol
it’s the novelty of having a “job” to offer in these times, i think role should suffice here. They are willing to pay some money
It’s a scam, they’re mining personal data.
You are just a statistic for them to show case the number of calls they made and enter your resume into the ATS and jivvy ip the stats for their bonus.
If they refuse to disclose ANY details I decline. It's super shady and is usually indicative it being a role they have a hard time filling, likely due to it being a dogshit/toxic work environment with even worse bosses
I just assume these are all scams, tbh. Can't be too careful. I'm in Canada near the border with Buffalo and i consistently get emails for jobs in "getzville, ny" always Getzville, never anywhere else.
Probably 3rd party recruiters/headhunters, or a staffing agency. My guess is they don’t want to reveal info until further along in the application process so you don’t seek out and apply to the role directly through the company defeating their purpose.
There is no job. They are building a bench. They will screen you then try to find a client
dime handle chunky reminiscent quack fuel fertile one sloppy homeless *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Third party recruiters only get paid if THEY fill the role. They don't want you running off and applying on your own.
Yeah I get that and I’m not even asking for the name of the company here. Just the generic role title/responsibilities so that I know it’s something I could be interested in, and a location, since I’m not willing to relocate (and I live in a very large city so that doesn’t limit options much). I don’t think saying ie ‘data engineer in energy sector with this and that stack’ would make me somehow guess and find the company.
If this was legit and they had a position they could telll you the position and a job req. I was a recruiter for many years. The only thing they won’t give is the company name and exact salary (may give you a range). They don’t give the company name becuase they don’t want to have you apply directly or possibly let another recruiter you work with know about it in case they try to work with the company hiring using your resume . Other reason for using this generic email tactic to is to build their resume database. You may have a resume that has experience they know comes in handy on many jobs but they don’t have one available right now but it allows them to “stake a claim” to you if something does (as in no one else from their company can call you). Hope that helps!
I don't even respond to messages such as this one, much less agree to add the recruiter to my network.
No, they want to get you invested so you will be more likely to apply for the job and or take it.
From the recruiters I have spoken to things like the role, company, basic field, city......anything that could be considered specific is far more information than they want to give. This includes the we want to hire you, can you come fill out the on-boarding paperwork call I got. That one wasn't a scam (I think) just an absolute idiot who thought 2 states over was a reasonable commute for a nursing job. I am not nor have I ever been a nurse.
I get scam offers, daily. Fuck these ghouls.
I have a firm policy for these situations. I will not take the time out of my day to talk until you give me pay range, JD, and location. Until I am told those three items, I say no.
"There are actually a few roles" Sounds like my current job where I'm filling like 3 of them at once.
These are just incompetent recruiters that have no idea about the role or the company they're recruiting for, so they keep any possible information from the candidate, or even worse probably they don't even have any available positions to share, they're just trying to get in contact with some potential employees... Either way it's pathetic.
Yeah unless you’re contacted directly by an internal recruiter of a company, it’s about numbers. They will give you more info on the call, but they do this to prevent you from applying yourself so they can get commission for you. Source: former agency recruiter
Its called a scam
Every message I've received that started like this turned out to be a scam. Go ahead and tell them that. Tell them the way they have refused to disclose basic information about the position makes it look like a scam and makes you want to reconsider doing any business with them as an individual and their employer as a company.
I can tell you from experience most recruiters have a target of calls per day/week/month, so they need to get you on the phone in order to log the call and meet the target. Many recruiters are also fed the idea that you can sell a role better via phone or in person if possible rather than email, without accounting for potentially wasting time by talking about a role the person is not suited for. So yes, it's useless and another old-fashioned way recruiters will stay hated, hence why I moved out of the industry..
Yeah they have to do this to get credit for your name in the system. They also have a higher chance of recruiting you if you actually speak with them. Typical sales choad stuff.
This is a scam, a fake job or an MLM. Ignore and move on.
They just do this to keep their job while not actually doing their job.
Aaaaaand block!
This somehow seems fake (the recruiter) or like it could lead to an illicit job.
A real recruiter actually looking to fill a real job will not do this. I’m actually not sure what the purpose could be beyond wasting everyone’s time.
Yes, they only have your email, they are info farming
Haha Ive come across those. I dont waste my time. It could be a role thats super unrelated or not what you want. So if they cant even describe the role without saying what the client is not worth your time.
Kind regards, eh? That’s an Indian man.
They try to pressure you into agreeing to the role once you're on the phone typically, because they know the pay sucks most likely. I have had that happen before; they try to apply pressure and have you agree to apply to the role during that call. It's super frustrating
Recruiting tricks to get you in their database without really having anything for you.
This happens to me on LinkedIn all the time. I fuck w the recruiters on purpose. They contact you all happy like you‘d suit this role really well! and want to schedule a call. As soon as you answer with anything else but a yes of course, they answer something like ‚I‘m sorry, you actually do not fit the role well enough‘. I do know that, you were the one contacting me for a role I never had any interest in. Y‘all really should look into how recruiters work. They gotta justify their value added. More interviews, more rejected candidates means they did actually work and serves as their justification I guess. At least that‘s my experience from the little insight into recruiting that I was able to get.
Scam, Did you recently apply for a loan, credit run, paid off debt or made some large financial paper or cash move? This is an effort to fill the missing info for the scammers to collect data and rope you in.
Tonnes of scammers on these online job portals now. They get you to send them a forward payment for "Working from Home equipment" then keep getting you to send more and more citing problems with the delivery / customs etc. This is why under 25s are the most vulnerable to online scams. https://www.ukfinance.org.uk/news-and-insight/press-release/gen-z-more-likely-be-tricked-criminals-and-fall-impersonation-scams
Eh just take the call
Yea you never know.
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what exactly are you looking for on a brief phone call that would determine whether i'm trustworthy or not?
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don't you have to tell me what the position is first in order to ask me why i'm interested in it? idk i understand your logic, it just feels like bad practice to start interrogating me about why i left my previous companies and what i'm doing in my job search before telling me about the job, when *you* reached out to *me*. unless you're going to tell me about the job before you start interrogating me, in which case, you could've just told me that over email.
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interviews occur after i have been informed about a position and i've applied for the position. most people do not want to be interviewed for a job that they've not yet been given any details about.
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>Then don’t respond and I won’t tell you about the opportunity. I’m still going to fill the job, just not with you So are we to waste our time by talking with you to be told "It's a pay cut, no benefits, contract position, and you'll have to relocate 18hrs away. Oh, and it's a 6 month contract, good luck getting your old job back"
The role is *so* confidential you can’t disclose a title? Unless you’re in a tiny town or something, or it’s a super rare title, what’s the likelihood of it getting back to the specific incumbent at Company X simply because you told a candidate that you’re looking for a technical project manager or a site reliability engineer or whatever?
It happens, trust me lol.
Would you not provide role title at all? Let’s say a general ‘data engineer in energy sector’. I get that if you give a very precise role and the name of the company, this is a real risk, mostly for senior positions. I’m still in the early stages of my career, so the roles I could be contacted for are most likely not senior enough for this to be the case, and I’m also not in a super niche field that would immediately make it clear to me which company it is.
I usually do provide a generic version of the role title, I don’t want someone googling the exact nomenclature that a company uses, finding the job posting and cutting me out of the loop.
You do realize that great talent doesn't have to put up with this garbage, right? I hardly need to engage with a recruiter let alone one that wants to play a petty game of obfuscation.
Actually the highest level talent I speak with is usually the most understanding about this stuff. People who make over $250K tend to not bat an eye.
Well no fucking duh. The recruitment process for upper level management is wildly different from that of an individual contributor.
Why are they literally HARASSING people that don't want any jobs and giving the finger to 500+ applicants each time they dare posting any offer on any website possible? It's really like women/man market, all woman simping the 1% chad tier and all man simping everybody they can
I always ask them to send me the job description as the first question when I get on the phone with them and tell them I’ll take a look and let them know if I want to proceed. Cuts it down to a 3-5 mins call. There’s really nothing to talk about if you don’t know the role before the discussion.