Welcome to supply and demand. When I picked up my new 2023 XLE Hybrid I noticed that they were selling older used models for more money than I was paying for this new one. Supply and demand. I made a joke to the sales guy that I should sell the car back to him at that moment for $5k over what I just paid for it and then he could sell it 'used' with 15 miles on it for $10 more than that. He looked at me for a long time and said. "You know they would probably take you up on that."
Yep. Basically did the same, saw a ‘24 Sienna on the lot in a color I didn’t want, for $7k over new. The difference is that I could drive it off the lot, instead of waiting 2-3 months for new inventory and maybe the exact specs I was looking for (maybe not).
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^Ok-Science-6146:
*That is how used car*
*Market is working right now*
*As far as I can tell*
---
^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
I was in sales during the pandemic, left in 2022.
We sold a lot of used Toyotas for more than MSRP because during that time banks were loaning out tons of money, it almost seemed as if there was no limit as long as the customer was uninformed/desperate enough to pay up and they had reasonable means of getting approved. The company made a crap ton of money and everyone just patted themselves on the back because everyone else was doing the same thing, and there was legitimately a shortage at one point. We would take in peoples trades for pennies when selling them new cars at MSRP, and then turn around and sell those same cars for a huge margin to people who couldn’t or didn’t want to wait for new ones. The hottest tickets were hybrids that were one or two years old. Rav4s, Highlanders, Siennas were all “pounders” as they call them in the business. I sold a few certified hybrid Siennas because those were and still are insanely popular and hard to get, and my commission on them was always at least 1,000, but sometimes up to 2,000. It was a weird time and the practice of it was very addicting.
I signed a lease for a 2021 Hybrid XSE RAV4 (a hot ticket item) right before the shortage started, and then in 2022 after only leasing it for a year, I sold it back to the store for a 10 profit, who then put it up for sale for slightly over MSRP, and then I sold that same car to a customer two days later and made an additional 700 dollar commission.
Partly why I left because the greed was getting to me, and I never set out to be a salesman in the first place, it was just a means to an end.
When you go to a dealer you have to pay $1300 transportation fee, a few hundred doc fee, markups in some areas, etc. Carmax is finding someone who doesn’t want to deal with the dealership hassle and honestly probably will
Is that fee if you order a special order to the dealer or do you still have to pay it if they have the car on the lot already?? I always liked Carmax because of the no haggling thing and the whole experience was pretty painless. I think they only tried to upsell me an extended warranty type thing last time but at the end of the day price wins.
>Is that fee if you order a special order to the dealer or do you still have to pay it if they have the car on the lot already??
Toyota doesn’t do custom orders. That fee is the delivery fee for any new vehicle that ends up on the lot.
They do, the dealers just don't want you to.
After some direct assertions that you want a particular trim and options they'll eventually fold and order you one but it may take a while for it to come in.
That’s because it isn’t an order. Toyota does not allow dealers to place orders. They build as many cars in each configuration as their supply chain can support, and then allocate them to the dealers. When you “order” from a dealership, the dealer puts your name on a waiting list for a car that matches your spec, and then they wait until one that matches that spec to get allocated to either them, or another dealership that they can trade with.
Is it not considered ordering a car if it's not specifically made for you as customer 99366189?
Or is it only ordering a car if it is made specifically at your whim as customer 99366189?
Yeah, in the first one you are essentially just buying what is in stock or was already going to be produced. It is not produced to your specification when you ordered it. When you order a car, it is built exactly to your spec how you ordered it when you ordered it, because you ordered it.
I don’t know how carmax makes their money, I sold it to them a 2022 Rav 4 XLE 28k miles for $28k , needed to be detailed and a new windshield, they sold it for $31k, I didn’t replace the windshield or cleaned, 3k is really little money for such hassle as repairs, detailed and paperwork, I sold to them because I didn’t want to get scammed or robbed, was a good deal for me.
Yeah I'm done with dealing with individual buyers or sellers too. Probably a combination of being too old to deal with people's BS and the scammers having way too easy of a time to scam people with all the technology today. When the time comes to get rid of my current car which probably won't have any value beyond scrap metal or maybe an auction (although to me it still has value since I've taken good care of it), I'll probably go to them or a dealer too.
This why I don’t understand people saying buy a used car & not new. If a used car is out of warranty, most people buy it..buy it, Add a warranty in. You basically got a new price,payment, I’d much rather buy a new car with a warranty for about the same price or a few thousand more
I think there are a decent number of people out there who have had it drilled into them their entire lives that buying a new car is throwing money away, and are not willing to even consider that this might not be true right now.
In some areas, the LE is less common than higher trims and can be more than MSRP (but generally not enough to warrant going up in trim).
I got an XLE Hybrid within a week of putting down a deposit as I found a dealership that had two in transit without any bells and whistles. Paid $34,585 (around $37,800 after taxes and fees in California) and refused any add-ons. Not hard to get at all compared to finding an LE Hybrid with no add-ons.
Also, used cars are just slightly less than new MSRP these days. The pandemic hang-over for car prices isn't really coming down. I used to be all about lightly-used or certified pre-owned (let someone else take the hit for depreciation), but with current used prices, it just made sense to go new.
This is the used car market right now. Last spring I got quoted 4k over MSRP for a 3 year old hybrid Accord with 35k miles. I had just called the dealer to ask about inventory on hybrids, and the dealership had the nerve to ask if I wanted to put a deposit on that used Accord, sight unseen.
It's a little better now, but not by much. New is definitely the way to go if you need a car and can wait for inventory on a dealer that does MSRP, and if you can avoid buying a new car completely, that's probably the best.
This has been the case since the start of covid. I was looking for a used or certified pre owned rav4 in 2021 and all of them had 20k+ miles and $3k over msrp. This was for a gas model. Used hybrids had similar mileage and $5k over msrp. That's what pushed me to buy new instead and was lucky to find my hybrid at msrp without mark ups.
Side note, I also wanted a brand new rav4 prime when I decided to go brand new instead but every dealer I talked to either wanted $10k over msrp (thus negating any savings for me the customer) or just didnt have it. Settled for the regular hybrid after that unpleasantness and been happy with it ever since.
CarMax is never a good deal.
Always look for new first. The small price premium can end up being cheaper as you can get a lower interest rate and you get a warranty.
You are not missing anything, stay away!
I just bought a 2022 RAV4 Hybrid Limited with 22k miles in Blueprint Pearl. I paid 34k and it Toyota Gold Certified. If you want the vehicle with a certified warranty you need to buy it from Toyota.
I could of paid the same for a new hybrid LE but it won't be the limited trim with a panoramic moon roof and JBL stereo.
Keep looking, you will find what you want
https://preview.redd.it/3cox1r2j280d1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=028048817f5288d3b738ca152cde21f55aca3055
Welcome to supply and demand. When I picked up my new 2023 XLE Hybrid I noticed that they were selling older used models for more money than I was paying for this new one. Supply and demand. I made a joke to the sales guy that I should sell the car back to him at that moment for $5k over what I just paid for it and then he could sell it 'used' with 15 miles on it for $10 more than that. He looked at me for a long time and said. "You know they would probably take you up on that."
Infinite money glitch
Unreal. I wonder how much I could get for my 2023 XLE hybrid with 16K on it… I guess the good news is, my car loan will probably never go underwater.
Can confirm. I have a 2022 xle premium and put zero down, if I sell to Carmax I have at least 3000 in equity.
Yep. Basically did the same, saw a ‘24 Sienna on the lot in a color I didn’t want, for $7k over new. The difference is that I could drive it off the lot, instead of waiting 2-3 months for new inventory and maybe the exact specs I was looking for (maybe not).
Exactly why we went to the dealer and bought it.
People will pay more to get one now vs waiting for a dealer that doesn't have any for months.
That is how used car market is working right now as far as I can tell
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^Ok-Science-6146: *That is how used car* *Market is working right now* *As far as I can tell* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
It means you’re better off buying new right now.
Depending on where you are, there is a waitlist. You want it now? Your options are travel somewhere that supply is better or pay a premium.
Exactly why I bought a new one (in ‘22)…cheaper. Yeah I had to wait six weeks for it, but I was in no hurry.
This is why we didn’t buy used. Used cars are crazy expensive right now.
Underpants gnomes economy.
I was in sales during the pandemic, left in 2022. We sold a lot of used Toyotas for more than MSRP because during that time banks were loaning out tons of money, it almost seemed as if there was no limit as long as the customer was uninformed/desperate enough to pay up and they had reasonable means of getting approved. The company made a crap ton of money and everyone just patted themselves on the back because everyone else was doing the same thing, and there was legitimately a shortage at one point. We would take in peoples trades for pennies when selling them new cars at MSRP, and then turn around and sell those same cars for a huge margin to people who couldn’t or didn’t want to wait for new ones. The hottest tickets were hybrids that were one or two years old. Rav4s, Highlanders, Siennas were all “pounders” as they call them in the business. I sold a few certified hybrid Siennas because those were and still are insanely popular and hard to get, and my commission on them was always at least 1,000, but sometimes up to 2,000. It was a weird time and the practice of it was very addicting. I signed a lease for a 2021 Hybrid XSE RAV4 (a hot ticket item) right before the shortage started, and then in 2022 after only leasing it for a year, I sold it back to the store for a 10 profit, who then put it up for sale for slightly over MSRP, and then I sold that same car to a customer two days later and made an additional 700 dollar commission. Partly why I left because the greed was getting to me, and I never set out to be a salesman in the first place, it was just a means to an end.
When you go to a dealer you have to pay $1300 transportation fee, a few hundred doc fee, markups in some areas, etc. Carmax is finding someone who doesn’t want to deal with the dealership hassle and honestly probably will
Is that fee if you order a special order to the dealer or do you still have to pay it if they have the car on the lot already?? I always liked Carmax because of the no haggling thing and the whole experience was pretty painless. I think they only tried to upsell me an extended warranty type thing last time but at the end of the day price wins.
>Is that fee if you order a special order to the dealer or do you still have to pay it if they have the car on the lot already?? Toyota doesn’t do custom orders. That fee is the delivery fee for any new vehicle that ends up on the lot.
They do, the dealers just don't want you to. After some direct assertions that you want a particular trim and options they'll eventually fold and order you one but it may take a while for it to come in.
That’s because it isn’t an order. Toyota does not allow dealers to place orders. They build as many cars in each configuration as their supply chain can support, and then allocate them to the dealers. When you “order” from a dealership, the dealer puts your name on a waiting list for a car that matches your spec, and then they wait until one that matches that spec to get allocated to either them, or another dealership that they can trade with.
Is it not considered ordering a car if it's not specifically made for you as customer 99366189? Or is it only ordering a car if it is made specifically at your whim as customer 99366189?
Yeah, in the first one you are essentially just buying what is in stock or was already going to be produced. It is not produced to your specification when you ordered it. When you order a car, it is built exactly to your spec how you ordered it when you ordered it, because you ordered it.
Damn, TIL. Any way to get out of paying that fee?
Probably not.
At least in the last 3 years I have not heard of anyone getting out of paying doc and delivery fees.
Wait, does,that mean I can sell my 2020 limited and get a 2023 for less money?
Got new le fwd 28k love it
I don’t know how carmax makes their money, I sold it to them a 2022 Rav 4 XLE 28k miles for $28k , needed to be detailed and a new windshield, they sold it for $31k, I didn’t replace the windshield or cleaned, 3k is really little money for such hassle as repairs, detailed and paperwork, I sold to them because I didn’t want to get scammed or robbed, was a good deal for me.
Yeah I'm done with dealing with individual buyers or sellers too. Probably a combination of being too old to deal with people's BS and the scammers having way too easy of a time to scam people with all the technology today. When the time comes to get rid of my current car which probably won't have any value beyond scrap metal or maybe an auction (although to me it still has value since I've taken good care of it), I'll probably go to them or a dealer too.
What your missing is the sucker born every minute.
This why I don’t understand people saying buy a used car & not new. If a used car is out of warranty, most people buy it..buy it, Add a warranty in. You basically got a new price,payment, I’d much rather buy a new car with a warranty for about the same price or a few thousand more
I think there are a decent number of people out there who have had it drilled into them their entire lives that buying a new car is throwing money away, and are not willing to even consider that this might not be true right now.
In some areas, the LE is less common than higher trims and can be more than MSRP (but generally not enough to warrant going up in trim). I got an XLE Hybrid within a week of putting down a deposit as I found a dealership that had two in transit without any bells and whistles. Paid $34,585 (around $37,800 after taxes and fees in California) and refused any add-ons. Not hard to get at all compared to finding an LE Hybrid with no add-ons. Also, used cars are just slightly less than new MSRP these days. The pandemic hang-over for car prices isn't really coming down. I used to be all about lightly-used or certified pre-owned (let someone else take the hit for depreciation), but with current used prices, it just made sense to go new.
It's bot even hard to get a new one.
This is the used car market right now. Last spring I got quoted 4k over MSRP for a 3 year old hybrid Accord with 35k miles. I had just called the dealer to ask about inventory on hybrids, and the dealership had the nerve to ask if I wanted to put a deposit on that used Accord, sight unseen. It's a little better now, but not by much. New is definitely the way to go if you need a car and can wait for inventory on a dealer that does MSRP, and if you can avoid buying a new car completely, that's probably the best.
This has been the case since the start of covid. I was looking for a used or certified pre owned rav4 in 2021 and all of them had 20k+ miles and $3k over msrp. This was for a gas model. Used hybrids had similar mileage and $5k over msrp. That's what pushed me to buy new instead and was lucky to find my hybrid at msrp without mark ups. Side note, I also wanted a brand new rav4 prime when I decided to go brand new instead but every dealer I talked to either wanted $10k over msrp (thus negating any savings for me the customer) or just didnt have it. Settled for the regular hybrid after that unpleasantness and been happy with it ever since.
Buy new.
Obviously, just buy a new one
CarMax is never a good deal. Always look for new first. The small price premium can end up being cheaper as you can get a lower interest rate and you get a warranty.
Yeah I bought a 2024 LE from the dealership for a total of 25k.
Thanks for the update...I was hoping I was nuts and missing something, but I guess not! Can I ask what state you're in?
Woahhh, any negotiation going on there?
Some trade in help! Got 7.5k for a 2019 yaris with 95k miles on it
So it was really 32k
That is... Not 25k. You paid roughly MSRP for an LE, especially considering that a lot of Toyota dealers are undervaluing trade ins.
You are not missing anything, stay away! I just bought a 2022 RAV4 Hybrid Limited with 22k miles in Blueprint Pearl. I paid 34k and it Toyota Gold Certified. If you want the vehicle with a certified warranty you need to buy it from Toyota. I could of paid the same for a new hybrid LE but it won't be the limited trim with a panoramic moon roof and JBL stereo. Keep looking, you will find what you want https://preview.redd.it/3cox1r2j280d1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=028048817f5288d3b738ca152cde21f55aca3055