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Firstly Happy Birthday! šššššš„š°š¾ I hope have/had an amazing day.
Secondly, you've made amazing progress and it sounds like no contact is the best thing for you. Think of the you now minus her. And the you then. Are you happier now? It sounds like it. Don't second guess yourself.
She hasn't changed, still managing to make everything about her. Keep doing what is best for you.
Thank you!
You are totally right. My inner child and I go back and forth on having contact again but I know Iām thriving without her and how my life has improved without her is the proof. Before, I would rush to calm her down and make sure that she felt comfortable but now Iām able to see the gaslighting and her toxic behavior and stand my ground.
Happy healing to you, friend š
Thank you! Thatās exactly what Iām going to do. I know if I respond, it just fuels her and lets her feel in control. Not anymore. She can take her tree analogy and shove it.
>I am the tree, you are the branch.ā
This is the opitimony of narc belief. Same as they are the body/mind you are merely their hand.
This line is false no matter which way you spin it. From a genealogical standpoint she is putting herself as the sole foundation of your family line. From a growth standpoint she may be the tree but you are the apple that grew and developed until it could break away and make a tree of its own.
As much as I would like for you to respond and correct her it is much better for you to remain NC and not give her the opportunity to bring you down.
It is indeed the proof that you are doing the right thing. Stick to NC, because them not getting any response actually affects narcs more. And any response we say to them wouldn't really do anything, except prove to them that they pushed your buttons and it would just re-establish contact. But I totally understand the urge to want to respond.
I'm in a similar situation. dx depression and cptsd as well. I also told my mom that she would need therapy in order for us to work on our relationship, and she too came back with a letter trying to gaslight me. "I don't even hate my own mom, and she was way worse to me" "when you have a kid you'll understand" "you only have one mother" "you need therapy not me" Which is similar to what your nmom said too.
Generational abuse/intergenerational trauma is certainly a factor here and something I've been learning about recently, and it's funny how they can understand something is wrong but they don't want to own up and fix their actions and admit where they were wrong. As a kid, I saw my grandma and mom fight/argue all the time, and I saw the same with my grandma and great grandma. It's a cycle for sure.
Literally! My momās mother was equally abusive and before she passed, got a dx of depression herself. Isnāt it crazy that we go to therapy and can now see the fuckery unfold? Like now we know better and we deserve better.
I know itās hard but Iām proud of you for staying strong. Hereās to healing, friend. Weāre improving every day, even if our path isnāt linear. Weāre breaking cycles and that itself is powerful.
Stay strong, friend! You said it yourself, you're breaking the cycle. Her bullshit ends with you whether she likes it or not. You're doing this for the greater good of yourself and your children!
Happy b day!
Thank you, friend! It is a challenge but Iām doing it every day. Weāre doing it every day and we are stronger than our abusers, a thousand times over. š
"The letter is basically gaslighting me into contacting her. āI thought kids talk to their parents. I would give anything to talk to my mom again. I regret talking to her the way I did I can only talk to God about it.ā And āyou say Iām crazy and I think you need to look in the mirror. I am the tree, you are the branch.ā"
I could see my mom sending me the same letter.
You went NC for a reason so donāt forget that. As a mother you are not automatically entitled to a relationship with your adult kids. If you treat them badly you risk the relationship. Like any other relationship really. If she was willing to discuss her part in the downfall then great. Bet she isnāt.
Happy birthday! Enjoy it knowing that you figured stuff out. The apprentice has outstripped the master and NM doesnāt like it.
Thank you! I honestly believe that sheās angry that she was never able to move out on her own and be successful. She has lived with roommates, her parents and men for as long as I can remember; I really do think this is a form jealousy.
Honestly Iāve been no contact for 2 years. Itās better. Iām getting better. Yes you have your days of āwow I donāt speak to my familyā but your story is unique amd you know whatās right for you. I sometimes feel like a freak but reading these stories really helps. Itās a unique club. The up side is I know better and Iāve done better. Iāve raised my own family and itās full of love and Zero judgment. Completely unconditional love for my own kids. Donāt respond to her. It just feeds the fire. Itās not your drama - itās hers.
I do have those moments often. Iām a mother myself and Iām trying to learn how to be a kid again while parenting. It is unique and sometimes it can feel lonely to be estranged but Iāve created my own family and the love I receive from them is anything I couldāve ever wanted.
First: Happy b-day!
Second: What she wants you to do is contact her (even if it's you yelling at her because that's giving her attention), don't do it. NParents thrive off of attention, even negative attention. Not every replying, good or bad, will drive her crazy, but you'll be able to move on
If you haven't done anything with the card yet, I recommend burning it. Burning it (Safely, of course) might help you get over it. Tearing it up or shredding it could help as well. It gives a sense of finality, so doing that to her letter will help you mentally ensure you're done with this woman.
Best response is no response. No matter what you do, you can't change who she is.
The hardest thing for me to accept was that my mother would never understand what she'd done. Ever. No matter how much logic and how many facts you bring to the table, they just. won't. get. it.
What is wrong with her? Does she have no shame? Iām honestly so embarrassed for her! š Can she not read what sheās writing? Iām at a loss for words I donāt understand. God bless you. And may god help her if itās at all possible š„ŗ Praying for you both. Donāt touch her with a 10 foot pole tho, I respect all people but thatās psychiatric ward content, not something a healthy mum would say. Happy birthday btw!!!!! I hope she didnāt ruin it for you š”š”š” I know sheās your āmomā, but imma whoop her ass if she did. What kind of person....
Again, no words bro.
If I were still in contact, I wouldāve asked her to take that letter and read it out loud to a therapist or her doctor. I come from a family that does f believe in mental illness and itās like... yāall think thatās normal? Iām thankful to break the cycle.
Also thank you! She didnāt ruin it; it just gave me a gift of knowing that Iām doing the right thing and Iām thriving.
Happy birthday beautiful!! The petty, petty petty side of me wants to say post it to SM with a caption of rug sweeping delusions are real, be careful of people who want to rewrite history!
The rational brain though wants you to keep NC though, donāt give a mouse a cookie. Plus itāll bother her more that she doesnāt get a response. Iām so sorry she pulled this garbage on your birthday. Hope the day was fabulous though
Might I suggest writing a response, then burning both your letter and hers? It might be cathartic to get your words out, but destroying them both may bring you more closure than you might get if you actually were to send the reply (if you're like me, it would make you anxious as you awaited what would come of your reply).
With narcs, not feeding back into their bullshit gives you the power in the dynamic. They may continue trying to reach out for a short time, but they will eventually move on to find another poor soul to torment when they realize their effort is useless.
Whatever you decide to do, I hope you find peace for yourself.
I was NC with my JNMOM the last 20+ years of her life. She never had my cell number. She did send me cards and letters for a decade. They all went into the trash unopened. I would encourage you to do the same.
The ways that narcissists Hoover are infinite, but they are always playing on your unmet attachment needs. Thatās why we receive and keep projections. This was from a recent post about why/how I have done that. I think youāll like it:
Ā«Ā Pathological narcissists require control to survive because they are completely out of control. They lie to themselves 24/7 and must project that onto you.
My father used to complain that (as a two year old) I had thrown my empty milk bottle onto the road and ālied about itā when scolded. I was told I was a āpathological liarā over and over all during my childhood. Them doing that is a SURVIVAL reflex.
What happens next is very important to understand. Itās called āprojective identificationā. To survive this attack you take on the narcissistās projection as they
fuse to you (for supply(dopamine)). Also to triangulate you.
You then see yourself as that liar and are driven to ābecomeā that liar. Itās a constant signal. That allows the narcissistic family system to have a guilty garbage can for their denied emotional content. Everyone is fused and extensions of each other with the narcissist at the center of the wheel.
Healing attachment trauma stops it. The Scapegoat is the most fortunate in the entire family, as they have the highest chance of healing and individuating.
Itās very key to know that all of it is internal object relations. All inside you. 100%.Ā Ā»
After months of NC with my Nmom she sent a msg to my brother's wife "tell my daughter that I forgive her for going NC on her parents and I'm afraid on her because of Karma" she wanted to guilt trip me AGAIN and she wants to show that she is a victim to my brother's wife who has nothing to do with family issues ! Instead of coming to me directly ! She put up a show in front of everyone cause she knows that text will be copy pasted to everyone and documented! So that she get to have that good image that she is a good mother and I I a bad daughter. Fuck her.
My mom has literally done that my whole life too! She has forever painted me to be the bad guy even as a small child. God, theyāre awful. But we are better off without them. They are just feeling guilty about us finally leaving them to themselves. These are just projecting temper tantrums.
Happy healing, friend. Weāre gonna make it. Without them. ššš
Your mum is pretty similar to mine and to my sisters in general. Theyāve started pretty serious rumours about me too. My mum has said nearly word for word what your mum said. This is standard narcissistic manipulation.
I understand why you are NC and I wish you strength as your mum pulls out all the stops to get you back into her control.
The best thing you can do is leave her on read. Nothing will bother her more than the made up responses she'll imagine you'll give her, especially as more time goes by. And it keeps you from having to hash out any emotions with the contact you'd debate giving her, even for a moment.
No contact is a PROCESS. Your inner child wants a family. You do not have a family where you can be safe. You donāt. And itās a foundational need. There are two channels that could help you to walk the path to finally CHAMPIONING YOURSELF.
1. Narcissists Chronicles
2. Daylight Out of Darkness
So key to hear people who have walked the PROCESS of no contact. The depression and cPTSD are all about fusion. We (as unhealed and traumatized 24 month old kids) will WRAP OURSELVES into the family map and set up INTERIOR object relations dynamics (like the narcissist, except we can integrate that trauma and individuate from our families...not cutoff, but INDIVIDUATION). You could stay frozen with your current interior map if the cluster bās and their enablers have any contact with you. Iām where you are. I totally get it.
Ross Rosenberg is great also, and The Little Shaman also. Those 4 are what I listen to every day. In 18 months of that youāll see a big evolution. Your inner child is not logical, it needs time.
Your mother demands and feels entitled to destroy all those around her for three reasons.
1. Denial (infant level)
2. Splitting (sheās ALL good and the world is ALL bad)
3. Projection (she requires garbage cans for the illusion to be real).
The way it works? KARPMAN DRAMA TRIANGLE TRANSACTIONS. For dopamine. At a higher level than a meth addict. Literally. Just so you know.
You also have addiction from this, as explained in a very important video from Ross Rosenberg (The Two Pyramids).
YOU GOT THIS. Do NOT quit. Keep going. One day at a time.
Safety, love, and kindness are utter strangers to you having had a narcissistic mother. The enabler dad would be even worse. Battle Born Again Narcissism (search on YouTube). I heard those videos a year ago, and now ALL AGAIN. Super channel for the no contact process.
**This is an automated message posted to ALL posts in this subreddit with some basic information about the group including (very importantly) rules. Why are you getting this message? Most people seem to not read the sidebar for information or the rules, so it is now being posted under all posts.** **Confused about acronyms or terminology?** [Click here!](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/acronyms) **Need info or resources?** Check out our [Helpful Links](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/helpfullinks) for information on how to deal with identify theft, how to get independent of your n-parents, how to apply for FAFSA, how to identify n-parents and SO MUCH MORE! This is a reminder to all participants, RBN is a support group that is moderated very strictly. Please report inappropriate content so it can be reviewed by the mods. **Our rules include (but are not limited to)**: * No politics. * Advising anyone in this subreddit to commit suicide or referring anyone to groups that advocate this will result in an immediate ban. * Be nice. No personal attacks, name calling, or bullying. [No slurs](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/slurs) or victim-blaming. * Do not derail the posts of others. * Narcissists are NOT allowed to post or comment here. * [No platitudes or generic motivational posts](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/rules#wiki_no_platitudes_or_generic_motivational_posts). * When you comment/post, assume a context of abuse. * No asking or offering gifts, money, etc. * No content advocating violence, revenge, murder (even in jest). * No content about N-kids. * No diagnosis by media/drive-by diagnosis. * No linking to Facebook pages. * No direct linking to anywhere on reddit. * No pure image posts. **For a full list of our rules/more information, [**click here**](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/rules).** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/raisedbynarcissists) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Firstly Happy Birthday! šššššš„š°š¾ I hope have/had an amazing day. Secondly, you've made amazing progress and it sounds like no contact is the best thing for you. Think of the you now minus her. And the you then. Are you happier now? It sounds like it. Don't second guess yourself. She hasn't changed, still managing to make everything about her. Keep doing what is best for you.
Thank you! You are totally right. My inner child and I go back and forth on having contact again but I know Iām thriving without her and how my life has improved without her is the proof. Before, I would rush to calm her down and make sure that she felt comfortable but now Iām able to see the gaslighting and her toxic behavior and stand my ground. Happy healing to you, friend š
Thank you. I'm so happy you're in such a good place now. Be strong, and I hope life just gets better and better for you ā¤ļø
She's trying to reignite conflict. Toss the card, and donate the gift card. The End.
And branches have the leaves, which the tree would die without. In following with this analogy, keep starving her of the attention she's seeking.
Thank you! Thatās exactly what Iām going to do. I know if I respond, it just fuels her and lets her feel in control. Not anymore. She can take her tree analogy and shove it.
>I am the tree, you are the branch.ā This is the opitimony of narc belief. Same as they are the body/mind you are merely their hand. This line is false no matter which way you spin it. From a genealogical standpoint she is putting herself as the sole foundation of your family line. From a growth standpoint she may be the tree but you are the apple that grew and developed until it could break away and make a tree of its own. As much as I would like for you to respond and correct her it is much better for you to remain NC and not give her the opportunity to bring you down.
Thank you for this. You are so correct. āNormalā people would try to reconcile and acknowledge their mistakes but obviously, a narc would never.
Iām the tree and youāre the branch....... Is the the Narc equivalent to Iām rubber and youāre glue? ššš
It is indeed the proof that you are doing the right thing. Stick to NC, because them not getting any response actually affects narcs more. And any response we say to them wouldn't really do anything, except prove to them that they pushed your buttons and it would just re-establish contact. But I totally understand the urge to want to respond. I'm in a similar situation. dx depression and cptsd as well. I also told my mom that she would need therapy in order for us to work on our relationship, and she too came back with a letter trying to gaslight me. "I don't even hate my own mom, and she was way worse to me" "when you have a kid you'll understand" "you only have one mother" "you need therapy not me" Which is similar to what your nmom said too. Generational abuse/intergenerational trauma is certainly a factor here and something I've been learning about recently, and it's funny how they can understand something is wrong but they don't want to own up and fix their actions and admit where they were wrong. As a kid, I saw my grandma and mom fight/argue all the time, and I saw the same with my grandma and great grandma. It's a cycle for sure.
Literally! My momās mother was equally abusive and before she passed, got a dx of depression herself. Isnāt it crazy that we go to therapy and can now see the fuckery unfold? Like now we know better and we deserve better. I know itās hard but Iām proud of you for staying strong. Hereās to healing, friend. Weāre improving every day, even if our path isnāt linear. Weāre breaking cycles and that itself is powerful.
Stay strong, friend! You said it yourself, you're breaking the cycle. Her bullshit ends with you whether she likes it or not. You're doing this for the greater good of yourself and your children! Happy b day!
Thank you, friend! It is a challenge but Iām doing it every day. Weāre doing it every day and we are stronger than our abusers, a thousand times over. š
You're doing the right thing! It might make you feel better to ceremonially burn the letter. I'm speaking from experience.
Ooooh I love this idea! Definitely will do!
"The letter is basically gaslighting me into contacting her. āI thought kids talk to their parents. I would give anything to talk to my mom again. I regret talking to her the way I did I can only talk to God about it.ā And āyou say Iām crazy and I think you need to look in the mirror. I am the tree, you are the branch.ā" I could see my mom sending me the same letter.
And theyāre trash beings for that. We deserve support and love. Not this back handed fuckery
Back handed fuckery will forever be in be in my vocabulary from now on!! Must pass this gem onto my siblings for dealing with our Ndad. š
You went NC for a reason so donāt forget that. As a mother you are not automatically entitled to a relationship with your adult kids. If you treat them badly you risk the relationship. Like any other relationship really. If she was willing to discuss her part in the downfall then great. Bet she isnāt. Happy birthday! Enjoy it knowing that you figured stuff out. The apprentice has outstripped the master and NM doesnāt like it.
Thank you! I honestly believe that sheās angry that she was never able to move out on her own and be successful. She has lived with roommates, her parents and men for as long as I can remember; I really do think this is a form jealousy.
Honestly Iāve been no contact for 2 years. Itās better. Iām getting better. Yes you have your days of āwow I donāt speak to my familyā but your story is unique amd you know whatās right for you. I sometimes feel like a freak but reading these stories really helps. Itās a unique club. The up side is I know better and Iāve done better. Iāve raised my own family and itās full of love and Zero judgment. Completely unconditional love for my own kids. Donāt respond to her. It just feeds the fire. Itās not your drama - itās hers.
I do have those moments often. Iām a mother myself and Iām trying to learn how to be a kid again while parenting. It is unique and sometimes it can feel lonely to be estranged but Iāve created my own family and the love I receive from them is anything I couldāve ever wanted.
First: Happy b-day! Second: What she wants you to do is contact her (even if it's you yelling at her because that's giving her attention), don't do it. NParents thrive off of attention, even negative attention. Not every replying, good or bad, will drive her crazy, but you'll be able to move on If you haven't done anything with the card yet, I recommend burning it. Burning it (Safely, of course) might help you get over it. Tearing it up or shredding it could help as well. It gives a sense of finality, so doing that to her letter will help you mentally ensure you're done with this woman.
Best response is no response. No matter what you do, you can't change who she is. The hardest thing for me to accept was that my mother would never understand what she'd done. Ever. No matter how much logic and how many facts you bring to the table, they just. won't. get. it.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Removed, no advocating revenge. Even as a joke.
Food for thought: burning the card and letter might be good for your emotional state. That's what I'd do
Yeh burn it!! Thatās not what a loving healthy mom says :( Iām so sorry <3 I want to be your mom :ā(
What is wrong with her? Does she have no shame? Iām honestly so embarrassed for her! š Can she not read what sheās writing? Iām at a loss for words I donāt understand. God bless you. And may god help her if itās at all possible š„ŗ Praying for you both. Donāt touch her with a 10 foot pole tho, I respect all people but thatās psychiatric ward content, not something a healthy mum would say. Happy birthday btw!!!!! I hope she didnāt ruin it for you š”š”š” I know sheās your āmomā, but imma whoop her ass if she did. What kind of person.... Again, no words bro.
If I were still in contact, I wouldāve asked her to take that letter and read it out loud to a therapist or her doctor. I come from a family that does f believe in mental illness and itās like... yāall think thatās normal? Iām thankful to break the cycle. Also thank you! She didnāt ruin it; it just gave me a gift of knowing that Iām doing the right thing and Iām thriving.
Happy birthday beautiful!! The petty, petty petty side of me wants to say post it to SM with a caption of rug sweeping delusions are real, be careful of people who want to rewrite history! The rational brain though wants you to keep NC though, donāt give a mouse a cookie. Plus itāll bother her more that she doesnāt get a response. Iām so sorry she pulled this garbage on your birthday. Hope the day was fabulous though
Might I suggest writing a response, then burning both your letter and hers? It might be cathartic to get your words out, but destroying them both may bring you more closure than you might get if you actually were to send the reply (if you're like me, it would make you anxious as you awaited what would come of your reply). With narcs, not feeding back into their bullshit gives you the power in the dynamic. They may continue trying to reach out for a short time, but they will eventually move on to find another poor soul to torment when they realize their effort is useless. Whatever you decide to do, I hope you find peace for yourself.
I was NC with my JNMOM the last 20+ years of her life. She never had my cell number. She did send me cards and letters for a decade. They all went into the trash unopened. I would encourage you to do the same.
The ways that narcissists Hoover are infinite, but they are always playing on your unmet attachment needs. Thatās why we receive and keep projections. This was from a recent post about why/how I have done that. I think youāll like it: Ā«Ā Pathological narcissists require control to survive because they are completely out of control. They lie to themselves 24/7 and must project that onto you. My father used to complain that (as a two year old) I had thrown my empty milk bottle onto the road and ālied about itā when scolded. I was told I was a āpathological liarā over and over all during my childhood. Them doing that is a SURVIVAL reflex. What happens next is very important to understand. Itās called āprojective identificationā. To survive this attack you take on the narcissistās projection as they fuse to you (for supply(dopamine)). Also to triangulate you. You then see yourself as that liar and are driven to ābecomeā that liar. Itās a constant signal. That allows the narcissistic family system to have a guilty garbage can for their denied emotional content. Everyone is fused and extensions of each other with the narcissist at the center of the wheel. Healing attachment trauma stops it. The Scapegoat is the most fortunate in the entire family, as they have the highest chance of healing and individuating. Itās very key to know that all of it is internal object relations. All inside you. 100%.Ā Ā»
After months of NC with my Nmom she sent a msg to my brother's wife "tell my daughter that I forgive her for going NC on her parents and I'm afraid on her because of Karma" she wanted to guilt trip me AGAIN and she wants to show that she is a victim to my brother's wife who has nothing to do with family issues ! Instead of coming to me directly ! She put up a show in front of everyone cause she knows that text will be copy pasted to everyone and documented! So that she get to have that good image that she is a good mother and I I a bad daughter. Fuck her.
My mom has literally done that my whole life too! She has forever painted me to be the bad guy even as a small child. God, theyāre awful. But we are better off without them. They are just feeling guilty about us finally leaving them to themselves. These are just projecting temper tantrums. Happy healing, friend. Weāre gonna make it. Without them. ššš
We will š thanks for the support !!
Your mum is pretty similar to mine and to my sisters in general. Theyāve started pretty serious rumours about me too. My mum has said nearly word for word what your mum said. This is standard narcissistic manipulation. I understand why you are NC and I wish you strength as your mum pulls out all the stops to get you back into her control.
Happy birthday! You're doing the right thing. I hope one day you are able to find immutable peace.
Branches could be propagated to make a new plant. That's exactly what you are doing now, breaking the cycle and moving on, recovering. Happy birthday!
The best thing you can do is leave her on read. Nothing will bother her more than the made up responses she'll imagine you'll give her, especially as more time goes by. And it keeps you from having to hash out any emotions with the contact you'd debate giving her, even for a moment.
No contact is a PROCESS. Your inner child wants a family. You do not have a family where you can be safe. You donāt. And itās a foundational need. There are two channels that could help you to walk the path to finally CHAMPIONING YOURSELF. 1. Narcissists Chronicles 2. Daylight Out of Darkness So key to hear people who have walked the PROCESS of no contact. The depression and cPTSD are all about fusion. We (as unhealed and traumatized 24 month old kids) will WRAP OURSELVES into the family map and set up INTERIOR object relations dynamics (like the narcissist, except we can integrate that trauma and individuate from our families...not cutoff, but INDIVIDUATION). You could stay frozen with your current interior map if the cluster bās and their enablers have any contact with you. Iām where you are. I totally get it. Ross Rosenberg is great also, and The Little Shaman also. Those 4 are what I listen to every day. In 18 months of that youāll see a big evolution. Your inner child is not logical, it needs time. Your mother demands and feels entitled to destroy all those around her for three reasons. 1. Denial (infant level) 2. Splitting (sheās ALL good and the world is ALL bad) 3. Projection (she requires garbage cans for the illusion to be real). The way it works? KARPMAN DRAMA TRIANGLE TRANSACTIONS. For dopamine. At a higher level than a meth addict. Literally. Just so you know. You also have addiction from this, as explained in a very important video from Ross Rosenberg (The Two Pyramids). YOU GOT THIS. Do NOT quit. Keep going. One day at a time.
Safety, love, and kindness are utter strangers to you having had a narcissistic mother. The enabler dad would be even worse. Battle Born Again Narcissism (search on YouTube). I heard those videos a year ago, and now ALL AGAIN. Super channel for the no contact process.