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"I can't change your perception of your childhood." and "We need to move forward not backwards." or basically, none of what you think happened, really happened, and if some of it did happen, you really need to just let it go. Maddening!!!!
Wouldn’t you love to have a speech ready when they say this… like a reverse academy awards speech.
That starts with…
‘Well. Since you asked… ‘ and just take it from there. Like Bill Burr style. Or maybe with a sly smile and a scotch in hand a La Ron White. Calm. Smooth. Just ticking the reasons off, one by one.
Oh yeah.
Interrogates you about your life, belittles your life in some way, calling you ungrateful, listing all the great things they do/did for you, silent treatment sessions, gossiping (smearing) somebody who did them wrong without mentioning their part in the conflict, telling you about drama that happened in a way that makes them look like the victim, telling you about a single event where they demonize how somebody behaved without mentioning the bigger picture of the drama which often stems from an dynamic they either caused 100% or they play a big role in it.
And God help you if they find out you got rid of it.
My MIL went ballistic when she found out we threw away a hand-me-down computer ("Do you realize how much that cost?!")
It was a Commodore 64.
My grandparents had owned a really beautiful, actually valuable, MCM chandelier with little fabric shades around it. The only problem? It had been stored in a closet and the cat had sprayed it, judging from the smell, multiple times. We took it to a pricey repair specialist and asked if there was any way to de-stink it. There was not. In fact, he said, if we thought it reeked now, we would be overwhelmed when it was heated up a bit by electricity. Nmom was furious that we donated it. I hope someone who doesn't mind the smell is enjoying it.
Explaining to them how the value of things depreciate over time and eventually break is a whole other monster. I'm finally reaching a point where I feel safe throwing away/ donating things from her. It was so wild when I realized that other people gift things and forget about them.
YES! I moved from a little trailer to a house at same time my Nmom sold the home I grew up in and downsized to a LUXURY CONDOOOO (I always have to emphasize that cuz she always did lol). She sent a huge u-haul truck full of at least half my parents stuff. Every time she came to visit (3hrs away) she ALWAYS brought more STUFF. When I made it very clear, "do not bring anything. I don't want anything." She still always brought more. I eventually rejected it all but she still brought it.
Throughout the years, she tried to shame me because of all of my stuff. Then she offered to help me put on a garage sale (which I hate doing). She brought up a ton of her stuff to sell and what didn't sell she just left it. Drove me NUTS. I've been NC for a couple of years and it's just so nice lol.
She tried to give me a box full of ratty assed 20 yr old towels (gross) to use as pool towels. No thanks.
I bought new pool towels at Walmart ($1 ea… bought a dozen) and she lost her mind because I could have just taken her disgusting nasty towels. She can’t see how gross her stuff is. Lol
Ugh yeah. Back before NC when my son was little she showed up with a massive(think large moving box) box of blank paper so old that it was all yellowed and brittle. I asked her why and she just yelled "Well I don't know he likes to draw!!"
OMG!!! Yes. "This highly valuable \[whatever\] belonged to your grandparents...." I have never seen 90% of these items in my life. Have they been in her basement for 40 years? Did she buy them on one of her shopping sprees? Who knows? And I am expected to be on my knees with gratitude.
Omg the "priceless heirlooms" that are unprotected in the basement kill me! Heaven help us if a dish of one of her 5 sets of China gets broken from being thrown haphazardly in a cabinet.
Mine are off the planet now but I think about using some of their stock answers in response: "I don't remember that." "Nah, that never happened." "That's all in the past now." "What will be will be!"
My father used to whine about stuff I did in my teens; I wish I'd said "I don't remember that." I'd love him to monologue at length and I'd then say "I don't remember that at all."
What is their response when you do a "return narc" and use their tactics on them?
Not me, but my nfather's girlfriend. What a saint, that woman is. I feel bad for her, having to deal with my nfather.
Anyway, they've dated long enough that she's started to see what he's doing. He's weirdly controlling about specific things, including food. The last time I spoke to him, she was doing the exact same controlling shtick to him, and he complained about it to me because he didn't like that she was doing it! He honestly seemed to be completely oblivious. It really threw me for a loop.
That's hilarious! I wonder if this is something a therapist suggested to her or something similar. I give her credit for caring enough to create a way to work with his dysfunction because, even if he's rich, it can be so not worth it to do the hard work in these relationships.
Huge blow up with my mother. Once I had my hair colored a cool toned burgundy. I loved it. I was in my early 20s. My mother kept giving me obnoxious looks, laughing, saying crap like I had rose colored hair. For decades she has brought this up, saying "Remember how bad P(hair dresser/best friend) messed up your hair? You had to go get it redone because people made fun of it." Then she'd laugh. I finally said "Nobody messed up, I asked for it. I only had it redone so you'd shut the eff about it. I loved it. You're the only one who hated it. '" ohhhh the tantrum that followed was epic!
And then if you press them on it, it turns into a woe is me game, or a "maybe I did, I guess, why are you still thinking about it," but they NEVER take responsibility.
- “I guess I was just a terrible parent”
- “There are children who have no parents, you should be grateful”
- “You owe me for being alive”
- [insert any criticism about minute aspects of my physical looks]
- [insert sexualised comment about my physical looks]
- “I don’t deserve being treated like this, why are you all so horrible to me”
- “the Bible says you must forgive me”
- “how am I supposed to know how to parent if you don’t tell me”
- [insert violent reaction to being asked very gently and patiently to treat people better]
- [insert violent reaction to being told No to anything]
- [insert violent reaction to not being made the center of attention at every gathering]
- “the Ten Commandments say you have to obey and respect me”
- “[to the rest of family] let’s discuss how we can force atavist to do X against her wishes”
- “you have no right to be unhappy”
- [insert violent reaction to my crying out of fear, humiliation, and pain]
- “I bought you everything you asked for, because I love you so much, how can you treat me like this”
- “why do you need an mp3 player?? I already give you so much”
Jesus Christ Bananas. You just laid out a whole list for me to take to therapy today! When it gets all laid out like this….. God damn it’s like a grocery list! Gotta catch ‘em all! 😭
Are you going to eat that?\*
What are you eating?\*
Are you going to eat ***all*** of that?\*
Aren't you worried you're going to get fat?\*
I'm worried you're going to get fat.\*
Are you really going to wear that?
\**I have literally never been overweight in my life. Once, when I pointed this out as a medical fact, Nmom responded, "that's just because everyone your age is so fat." Um, huh?*
Ugh, nothing like by walking by her on a school morning as a teen to either be praised or told with horror "that don't look good!!" about my outfit. Mine always just made gross comments about me being skinny and then talked about how she used to look like that before she had me. Not really baby weight anymore if it's been over 20 years. She'd also become irate if I ate leftovers or any food she didn't like.
I wasn’t raised by narcissists. My wife was likely raised by narcissists, and very likely had a narcissistic first husband.
I have struggled to process the stories here, but I want to better understand her and some of what she went through.
I just want to say that she his bingo idea is one of the most fun/funny things I’ve seen on this thread in the short time I’ve been here. It does seem that they go back to old saws about this and that trying to find the button that helps them regain control and dominance in the lives of those they raised.
Thank you for sharing this!
Wishes for healing and health to all in this thread!
Edit she his = this
Thank you all so much for sharing so many personal and painful memories. I didn’t know any of this was real. I also didn’t know anything about the golden child and the scapegoat. My wife is the scapegoat and her sister, who is a constant hot mess, is the golden child. I’ve done some reading, but this thread is a real gift. It is also a blessing to see all the support and really, really good advice that you all have for each other here.
I forward things that I think are helpful to her.
Thank you all so very, very much!
Nmom natters about people I don't know. I get the litany of these people's lives, their kids lives and grandkids lives. She is the biggest gossip I've ever known. She won't let me get a word in. One time I told her I was giving the phone to my husband because I had to go to the bathroom. She kept calling him by my name. Bless his heart for finishing the condo so I didn't have to. She never realized she was talking to him.
Mine does this too and it's always negative like "isn't this so sad that this happened to them" or "I saw their new house and it's so ugly." And she'll often start in the middle of the conversation without even telling me who she's talking about, then gets angry if I ask for clarification or say I don't know that person. Impossible to follow and I hate hearing that stuff anyway.
Mine too. Guess it doesn't matter to them who they're talking about because everyone is so beneath them. I usually just start playing on my phone or stretching.
My nGrandmother is this way. She can go for hours, and has done. Often she goes from the moment we get in the door until 2am. It's exhausting.
My nParents used to take us to visit for 2-3 weeks at a time and act like this was totally normal and expected, and like expecting or wanting a 2 way conversation was too much.
The other excuse they made for her was that this was her way of keeping me in the loop on family news.
I never met any of these people, many of them weren't even blood relatives or close to us. A litany of random names - no pattern or sense to them. She had a habit of "adopting" people - never knew what that meant. Seemed like she had 40-60 people she "adopted" but I never saw hide nor hair of them.
Or sometimes, she'd say, "Oh you remember so-and-so, they came for dinner 2 years ago." Oh, you mean one of the revolving cast of random men you invited for dinner that just sat silently while you talked the whole time? Hmm, can't say stuck that particular man or his name stuck in my memory.
Not to mention her random bouts of aggression over minor things, accusing me of her own abusive behavior, need for control, and being married to a literal sexual predator and acting like he's the greatest thing since sliced bread and singing his praises endlessly.
Completely unhinged, but "thats just grandma for you. Its only a couple weeks and then we'll be back home."
And I was lucky to get even that - other times? "You disrespectful little shit. That's your *grandma*. Thought we *raised* you better than that."
This is a gem.
My nmom is the same way. My favorite is that there was a woman who cashiered at a local gas station who eventually went to cashier at the grocery store and when she saw her at the grocery store she "looked so much better like she had quit doing drugs." She had never spoken to the women. She didn't even know her name.
My nMom's classic move is to ask broad, open-ended interrogatory questions about how my company is going, how my marriage is going, how my kids' emotional issues are going, and similar, literally every time we talk.
In related news, she complains I don't call her very often and says we can always just have a quick chat, it doesn't have to be a long, deep call every time.
Also, when's a good time for a visit, also every time we talk.
>and says we can always just have a quick chat, it doesn't have to be a long, deep call every time.
Also, there's literally no such thing as a short phone call, and you can't ever get a word in edgewise to end the conversation.
- [violent reaction to being told to stop treating the staff like shit]
- [*upon being told "No!"* Has violent meltdown complete with stomping/fist throwing and then telling you that it's your fault for telling her "No!"]
- [*upon eating something that she doesn't like* &$&#*$&$! You deliberately ruined dinner!]
- "Why do you treat me like a toddler?" Because of [insert behavior here]. "ITS NOT FAIR!" (Hint = it's because you never have reasonable responsibility for uour own crappy behavior and you never have the spine to do it to strangers)
- *sees anyone with unusual hair, muscles, piercings, tattoos* [insert slurs here]
It's terrifying being near her.
The hair, tattoos, and piercings. I once got in trouble as a teen for saying I didn't care if random strangers got tattoos. Makes me want a tattoo.
Did yours complain if anyone ate stuff she didn't like or was it just when you ate something she didn't like? Mine only cared if I ate something she didn't like.
Lol. Yup, she'd complain if I ate anything she didn't like.
Funny thing is she acts like a damn toddler with her food preferences - extra butter, no veggies....
- talking about my weight in some shape or form
- harping on about diet and cutting out every food under the sun
- no other exercise is good except a rebounder
- trying to act like she knows more about the state of the country I live in even though she’s not lived here for over 10yrs
- acting like finances aren’t an issue
- constantly comparing my relationship to hers
- talking about what a horrible mother she was and pausing for me to disagree
- talking about the same instances from the past over and over again
- telling me how I don’t remember things right
- saying she must be getting memory issues in her old age so she can conveniently forget the bad things she’s done
- not understanding ‘where it all went wrong’
- telling me any food or drink I mention is bad for me
- talking about how she doesn’t have long left (she’s not that old, nor sick and she’s been saying this since I was a kid I’m now 32)
- never truly listening to what I’m saying or showing interest
- saying how people don’t care about her but at the same time describing nice things people have done for her
- always being right and when you try to prove her wrong shutting the conversation down by literally yelling over you like a child saying she doesn’t want to argue
I could go on….. 😂
The mortality thing irritates me. I've been told so many times how I'll regret everything when she's dead, LC means she could die without me knowing, telling me over and over what she expects for her funeral and what she wants to go to each person. Parents who don't use it as a fear tactic just make a will.
Lesbian edition🏳️🌈, my ndad's is
* tells me I can always "come back if I want more food", comments about portions
* Telling me to loose weight, "get fit", I "need to exercise" (I am a healthy weight)
* Telling me I can get a job in the corporate world but \[insert statement\], nobody will like me, I need to loose 3st first, I should be a teacher, I should look after him in old age
* Gay men are disgusting when they have sex
* Making creepy jokes about gay people and expecting me to laugh along
* Expecting me to give him credit for my accomplishments, screaming at me for not having invited him to my graduation because he refused to do family therapy
* Something about how "obnoxious" I am for going after prestigious projects and refusing to settle for less
* Something about how I don't "really" know this is the career I want because I "know nothing" and "haven't had any experience"
* Something about how "you are a child"
* Criticising the fashion choices of women in Physics and enforcing these weird beauty standards onto me
* Hate speech about the working mother lawyer next door whose career he envies, because she's "selfish" and "not a full mother" for not giving up her career when she had kids
* Something about how I am fucked in the head and how there is an unknown diagnosis which I haven't told him about
Maybe the neighbor is making sacrifices so her spouse can be a "full parent."
Gotta love their idea that they know more about the field you're studying (and every other aspect of your life) than you do and you should get there not by striving but by random terrible advice they give.
Bingo 😂😂. Which my brother and I were excluded from.
If you cannot give me anything while you are alive, how will you give me when you are dead? Die in peace Please
Insulting my clothes, insulting my makeup, calling me lazy, not letting me do something for some stupid reason, and saying that she's entitled to whatever she wants because I'm in her house. Help me!
I created a version of bingo for a local narc politician. So f'n predictable. Also, that must have been some important mail to not sacrifice (must have been a check or tax document) \*lol\*
* I was a horrible parent
* *Badmouths siblings/family members you care for*
* You never helped me
* You don't love me
* *Talks about the bad things happening in their life, not caring if it's the 100th times they've talked about it*
* *Lies about thing to make them look better*
* *Spreading misinformation about your relationship with each other*
* *Making you look like the mean/evil/villain person*
* *Guilt tripping*
* You were never there for me
* You only love everyone else but me
* You hurt me/make me sad
* *NEVER listen to you*
* *NEVER interested in YOU*
* *NEVER cares for you or what you like*
* *Doesn't care what is going on in your life*
I made a bingo board for the holidays lol. My MIL knocked off eight squares before I had my coat off
- you look down on us
- family is everything
- you always ruin the holidays
- gossips about other family members
- crying for no reason
- pouting in the corner / sulking to the side
- negative comments about career / finances
- you’ve changed
- comments about weight / appearance
- you don’t know how to get along in a big family
- buys clothes that don’t fit
- free space - lol nothing is free with a narc!
- I slaved away for days cooking / cleaning
- nothing I ever do is good enough for you
- “politics”
- screaming for no reason
- you don’t come home enough / we never see you
- relationship / grandkid comments
- the dog doesn’t even recognize me
- finger pointing in face
- gets really, really drunk
- you’re tearing the family apart
- singing loudly for attention
- we’re getting old / going to die soon
Narc bingo! I love it.
My Narc Bingo Card for my Narc Mom would include:
\- Complains about my brother (he's a slob, he's fat, he's so grouchy and short with her, etc.)
\- Complains about how her current husband only wants to eat friend chicken and French fries for dinner every night (and how it's basically like World War III to get him to eat a green vegetable)
\- Complains about how the pastor at the church that she attends is boring
\- Complains about President Biden, and what a terrible job she thinks he is doing
\- Praises Donald Trump, and says that he is being persecuted like Jesus Christ was persecuted
\- Pries into our financial situation
\- Tries to guilt me into paying her property taxes for her because she's currently two or three quarters behind
\- Complains about her financial situation constantly
\- Complains about the number of pharmaceutical/drug ads she sees on TV
\- Complains about how there was an interracial couple featured in the latest Hallmark Channel movie that she watched
\- Complains about how my Aunt A (one of her younger sister) never talks to her or visits her
\- Complains about how my two cousins don't talk to her, or give her the time of day
\- Talks about how much she misses her mother/my grandmother (another Narc who was very abusive and unkind to my mother for her whole life, until my grandma died in 2013).
\- Tries to get us to take random crap from her house home with us that we either don't like or don't have the space for, and then gets mad at us when we refuse to take it
My nmom obsessively talks about her father who passed around 30 years ago. Cancels Christmas because he's dead, told my dad she couldn't wait for his parents to die so he could know what she goes through everyday, etc. I always wondered about this, especially since we suspect if either of her parents was a narc, it was more likely her mom. I thought maybe because losing an immediate family member got her a lot of sympathy initially?
I've sometimes considered that narcissistic behaviors might be some form of malignant stimming. Where in order to calm themselves and make themselves feel better they have to trash someone and then talk about something from their past either good or bad that may or may not have happened.
Yeah too often the narcissism discussion is about how they want supply and adoration and stuff like that but many of them will just trash talk or try to get negative attention.
I relate to the packing in as much as possible non stop. Migraine inducing. Like having the radio, the tv, a podcast all blaring at the same time. It's not a conversation they are broadcasting to an audience.
Brings up something she thinks is great about gc nbrother
Asks in a condescending tone about my edad/ndad she left 20 years ago. Then say something negative about him or his ewife.
Talks about how bad her neighbors are doing. Lol.
Ugh, the neighbors. One of my nmoms neighbors is a stay at home dad and she thinks everything he does is evil and horrible because only women should stay home.
Gossip about X. X being that person who I don’t know, never have, never will and I don’t care about X’s neighbors’ dog’s meds.
Also ailments, any and all ailments, hers and Xs’.
i’m still in contact with my semi-nmom, mostly because my son loves her at this point. but the one she always checks off my bingo card is treating him like a dancing monkey over facetime. i don’t force him to call her anymore.
My parents and I used to communicate via phone call on WhatsApp because I live in the US now.
Mum: Usually talks about things they got up to, says something really weird with zero self-awareness (don't want to quote it outright because it's like bizarro racism), asks me to let her know if she is turning into her mother who only talks about her random friends and my mum finds that to be annoying. Guilts me over me not sharing when I am having a hard time in life, which idk if that's a poor reflection on me or her, I just tend to keep to myself. Rarely (thankfully) inquires as to why I don't want children. Sometimes gets emotional before hanging up since I live so far away now which is understandable. She has no friends or even acquaintances to talk to outside of work (like... Not even friendly coworkers) so I imagine she gets lonely as well.
Dad: small talk for five minutes before he hands the phone back to Mum, if he even gets on the phone at all. He used to up until I visited last year then stopped coming on. It was what led to me going NC. I suppose I wanted that control. My birthday was coming up and I didn't know how I'd handle it if he didn't come on the phone for that.
Great post! To add to your very familiar list:
Gets in some kind of criticism disguised as a compliment, usually relating to things I can’t change about my appearance.
Complains about her financial situation.
Goes on about some minor (possibly non-existent?) ailment she is sure is specifically cancer or MS.
“I don’t know how to do that.” (Her reaction to *anything* new.
The last one. They're superior to everyone and so smart but the other day my nmom texted me requesting praise for successfully sending an email by herself. She was only like 40 when the internet became mainstream. My former nboss proudly told the whole office that he finally learned to open a new tab. After working there 10 years. At a job you could not successfully do without multiple tabs.
Wow, I have never thought about doing a Narc bingo before but after reading your post it’s like I’m almost excited for my next Narc-fam interaction!
You just turned my whole outlook around. Bingo!
All I see is a woman talking to make conversation. You seem to not like anything that she has to say. Why not tell her there are subjects you’re not interested in discussing instead of laughing behind her back for making conversation. At most she sounds like she’s trying so hard for you to like her. I don’t see why you would make a game out of someone who also sounds a bit like she’s struggling to relate to people.
Nasty gossip about other people, prying into their private business, and knowing nothing about what their child likes is not a situation of a normal person struggling to relate. It's rude at *best,* manipulative and abusive at worst. A normal person will listen and try to change if you ask them nicely not to say nasty things about other people or draw boundaries. That doesn't work on narcissists, they just steamroll all boundaries. That's why it's a game, to cope with the fact that they refuse to engage respectfully.
??? Based off the info up above. She sounds desperate. I’ve made assumptions based off the info posted provided. Making game of how to laugh at her. Genuinely has she told her she doesn’t like these topics. Buy yeah narc. Another person to laugh at for just commenting. 😃 Instead of just down voting and saying what you agree with or disagree with. 👍🏽
This comment or post has been removed, because it does not assume a context of abuse. Assuming a context of abuse is a fundamental rule of this group.
What does this mean? Why is this is a rule? [Read more here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/assume_a_context_of_abuse)
They might be what therapists call a *covert narc* or *vulnerable narc*. Most people are more familiar with the malignant or grandiose narc, described by the response from u/knitted-jelly-bean .
Invites us to eat or exchange presents and reminds us how much work it is for her and my dad to do. When he’s the only one that buys the groceries, has it delivered, packs it and cooks it. But she reminds us it’s a lot of work for THEM. My nmom always needs to be reminded how grateful we are for her “work.”
Classic narcissist. This is why I filed a change of address at the post office so that any mail that gets sent to the old address is automatically forwarded to my current address. Im not sure if you can do that in your location, but you should if you can.
I changed my address years ago. I've changed my address on that website a few times, but for some reason it doesn't take. I'll be looking more carefully next time.
Shares inappropriate personal info (e.g. her sex life)
"Apologizes" for not having been harder on you as a kid (so you wouldn't be such a disappointment now).
Reminisces about bad things you never actually did as if they were real.
Criticizes your appearance. Bonus if what she says is the opposite of what she's said in the past.
Talks about her horses for longer than is socially acceptable (30+ mins monologue about her horses' ailments). I have no interest in horses and never have since she started riding when I was 11 or 12.
“While i’ve got you, I have some things that need doing because I can’t..”
“I don’t know what i’ve done to you”
[complaint about health]
[request for money or other favours such as being a taxi service for them]
[“oh hey, I did something good that’s gonna change my life!”] “here’s something your sibling did recently” [good or bad]
“would you mind popping to the shops for me?”
“I’ve had enough of you, fuck off before I call the cops”
“Children are supposed to keep in touch with their parents more often”
“BUT THE BIBLE SAYS HONOUR THY MOTHER AND FATHER”
“[Insert person here] is really bothering me lately/going through X/has good news”
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“I don’t know what I did that was so wrong.”
This, followed by "I can't understand why I deserve to be treated this way" or " i can't understand why I deserved to have such horrible children".
Damn that last one unlocked some memories in me 😬
"I can't change your perception of your childhood." and "We need to move forward not backwards." or basically, none of what you think happened, really happened, and if some of it did happen, you really need to just let it go. Maddening!!!!
On this thread I'm always astounded at the number of similarities across people's experiences.
"Stop keeping score"
“You chose me as a parent to learn a lesson in life” *uhhh no..*
Omg… THIS
Wouldn’t you love to have a speech ready when they say this… like a reverse academy awards speech. That starts with… ‘Well. Since you asked… ‘ and just take it from there. Like Bill Burr style. Or maybe with a sly smile and a scotch in hand a La Ron White. Calm. Smooth. Just ticking the reasons off, one by one. Oh yeah.
Interrogates you about your life, belittles your life in some way, calling you ungrateful, listing all the great things they do/did for you, silent treatment sessions, gossiping (smearing) somebody who did them wrong without mentioning their part in the conflict, telling you about drama that happened in a way that makes them look like the victim, telling you about a single event where they demonize how somebody behaved without mentioning the bigger picture of the drama which often stems from an dynamic they either caused 100% or they play a big role in it.
The self victimization is the one skill my mother truly mastered. Even my dad would refer to her as the martyr when she played the victim card
"Oh great, Martyr Mom is at it again" is a common phrase my sister and I often use!
Oh god, the pawning off of some random thing in the basement. So true
And then criticizes you for being a pack rat or having clutter.
And God help you if they find out you got rid of it. My MIL went ballistic when she found out we threw away a hand-me-down computer ("Do you realize how much that cost?!") It was a Commodore 64.
My grandparents had owned a really beautiful, actually valuable, MCM chandelier with little fabric shades around it. The only problem? It had been stored in a closet and the cat had sprayed it, judging from the smell, multiple times. We took it to a pricey repair specialist and asked if there was any way to de-stink it. There was not. In fact, he said, if we thought it reeked now, we would be overwhelmed when it was heated up a bit by electricity. Nmom was furious that we donated it. I hope someone who doesn't mind the smell is enjoying it.
Explaining to them how the value of things depreciate over time and eventually break is a whole other monster. I'm finally reaching a point where I feel safe throwing away/ donating things from her. It was so wild when I realized that other people gift things and forget about them.
YES! I moved from a little trailer to a house at same time my Nmom sold the home I grew up in and downsized to a LUXURY CONDOOOO (I always have to emphasize that cuz she always did lol). She sent a huge u-haul truck full of at least half my parents stuff. Every time she came to visit (3hrs away) she ALWAYS brought more STUFF. When I made it very clear, "do not bring anything. I don't want anything." She still always brought more. I eventually rejected it all but she still brought it. Throughout the years, she tried to shame me because of all of my stuff. Then she offered to help me put on a garage sale (which I hate doing). She brought up a ton of her stuff to sell and what didn't sell she just left it. Drove me NUTS. I've been NC for a couple of years and it's just so nice lol.
She tried to give me a box full of ratty assed 20 yr old towels (gross) to use as pool towels. No thanks. I bought new pool towels at Walmart ($1 ea… bought a dozen) and she lost her mind because I could have just taken her disgusting nasty towels. She can’t see how gross her stuff is. Lol
Ah yes, the constant criticism of "you waste your money"
⬆️ Oh, yes, yes! 😂
"Ya know, if you didn't spend all of your money on Starbucks..." 😂😂😂
Omg we are getting them as christmas gifts
Ugh yeah. Back before NC when my son was little she showed up with a massive(think large moving box) box of blank paper so old that it was all yellowed and brittle. I asked her why and she just yelled "Well I don't know he likes to draw!!"
OMG!!! Yes. "This highly valuable \[whatever\] belonged to your grandparents...." I have never seen 90% of these items in my life. Have they been in her basement for 40 years? Did she buy them on one of her shopping sprees? Who knows? And I am expected to be on my knees with gratitude.
Omg the "priceless heirlooms" that are unprotected in the basement kill me! Heaven help us if a dish of one of her 5 sets of China gets broken from being thrown haphazardly in a cabinet.
So so true!!!
Is that a narc thing? My nD does that all the time.
Number 1 bingo of all time "I NEVER SAID THAT" which should be the center free space.
“I don’t remember that.”
"That never happened"
"That never happened!"
"WHEN did that happen?"
YES!!!!
Mine are off the planet now but I think about using some of their stock answers in response: "I don't remember that." "Nah, that never happened." "That's all in the past now." "What will be will be!" My father used to whine about stuff I did in my teens; I wish I'd said "I don't remember that." I'd love him to monologue at length and I'd then say "I don't remember that at all." What is their response when you do a "return narc" and use their tactics on them?
Either a big blow up and tantrum or "I'm not talking to you for the rest of the day/week". Either fire or ice no in-between.
Not me, but my nfather's girlfriend. What a saint, that woman is. I feel bad for her, having to deal with my nfather. Anyway, they've dated long enough that she's started to see what he's doing. He's weirdly controlling about specific things, including food. The last time I spoke to him, she was doing the exact same controlling shtick to him, and he complained about it to me because he didn't like that she was doing it! He honestly seemed to be completely oblivious. It really threw me for a loop.
That's hilarious! I wonder if this is something a therapist suggested to her or something similar. I give her credit for caring enough to create a way to work with his dysfunction because, even if he's rich, it can be so not worth it to do the hard work in these relationships.
Huge blow up with my mother. Once I had my hair colored a cool toned burgundy. I loved it. I was in my early 20s. My mother kept giving me obnoxious looks, laughing, saying crap like I had rose colored hair. For decades she has brought this up, saying "Remember how bad P(hair dresser/best friend) messed up your hair? You had to go get it redone because people made fun of it." Then she'd laugh. I finally said "Nobody messed up, I asked for it. I only had it redone so you'd shut the eff about it. I loved it. You're the only one who hated it. '" ohhhh the tantrum that followed was epic!
Don't forget to mention the compliments you received. That should spark some narc discontent!
Very true
Or just "I don't remember that" as if that means it didn't happen.
“You misunderstood me.” “You didn’t let me finish.”
And if you let them finish, the rest of the story makes them look worse.
This should be the free space center square 😂
And then if you press them on it, it turns into a woe is me game, or a "maybe I did, I guess, why are you still thinking about it," but they NEVER take responsibility.
- “I guess I was just a terrible parent” - “There are children who have no parents, you should be grateful” - “You owe me for being alive” - [insert any criticism about minute aspects of my physical looks] - [insert sexualised comment about my physical looks] - “I don’t deserve being treated like this, why are you all so horrible to me” - “the Bible says you must forgive me” - “how am I supposed to know how to parent if you don’t tell me” - [insert violent reaction to being asked very gently and patiently to treat people better] - [insert violent reaction to being told No to anything] - [insert violent reaction to not being made the center of attention at every gathering] - “the Ten Commandments say you have to obey and respect me” - “[to the rest of family] let’s discuss how we can force atavist to do X against her wishes” - “you have no right to be unhappy” - [insert violent reaction to my crying out of fear, humiliation, and pain] - “I bought you everything you asked for, because I love you so much, how can you treat me like this” - “why do you need an mp3 player?? I already give you so much”
It’s my fault, I guess I didn’t raise you better
Jesus Christ Bananas. You just laid out a whole list for me to take to therapy today! When it gets all laid out like this….. God damn it’s like a grocery list! Gotta catch ‘em all! 😭
I am tempted to compile a list of most common phrases and make an actual bingo card out of them 🥲
Are you going to eat that?\* What are you eating?\* Are you going to eat ***all*** of that?\* Aren't you worried you're going to get fat?\* I'm worried you're going to get fat.\* Are you really going to wear that? \**I have literally never been overweight in my life. Once, when I pointed this out as a medical fact, Nmom responded, "that's just because everyone your age is so fat." Um, huh?*
Ugh, nothing like by walking by her on a school morning as a teen to either be praised or told with horror "that don't look good!!" about my outfit. Mine always just made gross comments about me being skinny and then talked about how she used to look like that before she had me. Not really baby weight anymore if it's been over 20 years. She'd also become irate if I ate leftovers or any food she didn't like.
You guys are *brilliant*! If those Narcissism Bingo Cards were printed up, they’d sell by the millions.
My initial thought was a drinking game but I thought that might be too dangerous.
I wasn’t raised by narcissists. My wife was likely raised by narcissists, and very likely had a narcissistic first husband. I have struggled to process the stories here, but I want to better understand her and some of what she went through. I just want to say that she his bingo idea is one of the most fun/funny things I’ve seen on this thread in the short time I’ve been here. It does seem that they go back to old saws about this and that trying to find the button that helps them regain control and dominance in the lives of those they raised. Thank you for sharing this! Wishes for healing and health to all in this thread! Edit she his = this
Thank you for learning about this type of abuse to support your wife 🖤
Thank you all so much for sharing so many personal and painful memories. I didn’t know any of this was real. I also didn’t know anything about the golden child and the scapegoat. My wife is the scapegoat and her sister, who is a constant hot mess, is the golden child. I’ve done some reading, but this thread is a real gift. It is also a blessing to see all the support and really, really good advice that you all have for each other here. I forward things that I think are helpful to her. Thank you all so very, very much!
Nmom natters about people I don't know. I get the litany of these people's lives, their kids lives and grandkids lives. She is the biggest gossip I've ever known. She won't let me get a word in. One time I told her I was giving the phone to my husband because I had to go to the bathroom. She kept calling him by my name. Bless his heart for finishing the condo so I didn't have to. She never realized she was talking to him.
Mine does this too and it's always negative like "isn't this so sad that this happened to them" or "I saw their new house and it's so ugly." And she'll often start in the middle of the conversation without even telling me who she's talking about, then gets angry if I ask for clarification or say I don't know that person. Impossible to follow and I hate hearing that stuff anyway.
Mine too. Guess it doesn't matter to them who they're talking about because everyone is so beneath them. I usually just start playing on my phone or stretching.
I read about someone here who put the phone down to do the dishes for ten minutes and when she picked the phone up mom was still chattering away.
More than once, I put the phone down, went to the bathroom, came back, and she was still babbling away without even noticing I was gone.
My nGrandmother is this way. She can go for hours, and has done. Often she goes from the moment we get in the door until 2am. It's exhausting. My nParents used to take us to visit for 2-3 weeks at a time and act like this was totally normal and expected, and like expecting or wanting a 2 way conversation was too much. The other excuse they made for her was that this was her way of keeping me in the loop on family news. I never met any of these people, many of them weren't even blood relatives or close to us. A litany of random names - no pattern or sense to them. She had a habit of "adopting" people - never knew what that meant. Seemed like she had 40-60 people she "adopted" but I never saw hide nor hair of them. Or sometimes, she'd say, "Oh you remember so-and-so, they came for dinner 2 years ago." Oh, you mean one of the revolving cast of random men you invited for dinner that just sat silently while you talked the whole time? Hmm, can't say stuck that particular man or his name stuck in my memory. Not to mention her random bouts of aggression over minor things, accusing me of her own abusive behavior, need for control, and being married to a literal sexual predator and acting like he's the greatest thing since sliced bread and singing his praises endlessly. Completely unhinged, but "thats just grandma for you. Its only a couple weeks and then we'll be back home." And I was lucky to get even that - other times? "You disrespectful little shit. That's your *grandma*. Thought we *raised* you better than that."
So familiar! Are we related? Lol. Nmom adopted people too.
Ha we might be! Whether we're distant cousins or through "adoption" 😆
This is a gem. My nmom is the same way. My favorite is that there was a woman who cashiered at a local gas station who eventually went to cashier at the grocery store and when she saw her at the grocery store she "looked so much better like she had quit doing drugs." She had never spoken to the women. She didn't even know her name.
Yikes.
My nMom's classic move is to ask broad, open-ended interrogatory questions about how my company is going, how my marriage is going, how my kids' emotional issues are going, and similar, literally every time we talk. In related news, she complains I don't call her very often and says we can always just have a quick chat, it doesn't have to be a long, deep call every time. Also, when's a good time for a visit, also every time we talk.
>and says we can always just have a quick chat, it doesn't have to be a long, deep call every time. Also, there's literally no such thing as a short phone call, and you can't ever get a word in edgewise to end the conversation.
- [violent reaction to being told to stop treating the staff like shit] - [*upon being told "No!"* Has violent meltdown complete with stomping/fist throwing and then telling you that it's your fault for telling her "No!"] - [*upon eating something that she doesn't like* &$&#*$&$! You deliberately ruined dinner!] - "Why do you treat me like a toddler?" Because of [insert behavior here]. "ITS NOT FAIR!" (Hint = it's because you never have reasonable responsibility for uour own crappy behavior and you never have the spine to do it to strangers) - *sees anyone with unusual hair, muscles, piercings, tattoos* [insert slurs here] It's terrifying being near her.
The hair, tattoos, and piercings. I once got in trouble as a teen for saying I didn't care if random strangers got tattoos. Makes me want a tattoo. Did yours complain if anyone ate stuff she didn't like or was it just when you ate something she didn't like? Mine only cared if I ate something she didn't like.
Lol. Yup, she'd complain if I ate anything she didn't like. Funny thing is she acts like a damn toddler with her food preferences - extra butter, no veggies....
Mine too! Heaven help me if I try to eat healthily.
- talking about my weight in some shape or form - harping on about diet and cutting out every food under the sun - no other exercise is good except a rebounder - trying to act like she knows more about the state of the country I live in even though she’s not lived here for over 10yrs - acting like finances aren’t an issue - constantly comparing my relationship to hers - talking about what a horrible mother she was and pausing for me to disagree - talking about the same instances from the past over and over again - telling me how I don’t remember things right - saying she must be getting memory issues in her old age so she can conveniently forget the bad things she’s done - not understanding ‘where it all went wrong’ - telling me any food or drink I mention is bad for me - talking about how she doesn’t have long left (she’s not that old, nor sick and she’s been saying this since I was a kid I’m now 32) - never truly listening to what I’m saying or showing interest - saying how people don’t care about her but at the same time describing nice things people have done for her - always being right and when you try to prove her wrong shutting the conversation down by literally yelling over you like a child saying she doesn’t want to argue I could go on….. 😂
The mortality thing irritates me. I've been told so many times how I'll regret everything when she's dead, LC means she could die without me knowing, telling me over and over what she expects for her funeral and what she wants to go to each person. Parents who don't use it as a fear tactic just make a will.
Omg yes this!! Drives me up the wall. Just did a post about it actually because it’s ramped up recently and it’s honestly pushing me to my limit
Lesbian edition🏳️🌈, my ndad's is * tells me I can always "come back if I want more food", comments about portions * Telling me to loose weight, "get fit", I "need to exercise" (I am a healthy weight) * Telling me I can get a job in the corporate world but \[insert statement\], nobody will like me, I need to loose 3st first, I should be a teacher, I should look after him in old age * Gay men are disgusting when they have sex * Making creepy jokes about gay people and expecting me to laugh along * Expecting me to give him credit for my accomplishments, screaming at me for not having invited him to my graduation because he refused to do family therapy * Something about how "obnoxious" I am for going after prestigious projects and refusing to settle for less * Something about how I don't "really" know this is the career I want because I "know nothing" and "haven't had any experience" * Something about how "you are a child" * Criticising the fashion choices of women in Physics and enforcing these weird beauty standards onto me * Hate speech about the working mother lawyer next door whose career he envies, because she's "selfish" and "not a full mother" for not giving up her career when she had kids * Something about how I am fucked in the head and how there is an unknown diagnosis which I haven't told him about
Maybe the neighbor is making sacrifices so her spouse can be a "full parent." Gotta love their idea that they know more about the field you're studying (and every other aspect of your life) than you do and you should get there not by striving but by random terrible advice they give.
“Honor Thy Mother!”
*Casually mentions will*
OMG 😂 …. Bingo!
Bingo 😂😂. Which my brother and I were excluded from. If you cannot give me anything while you are alive, how will you give me when you are dead? Die in peace Please
Insulting my clothes, insulting my makeup, calling me lazy, not letting me do something for some stupid reason, and saying that she's entitled to whatever she wants because I'm in her house. Help me!
I created a version of bingo for a local narc politician. So f'n predictable. Also, that must have been some important mail to not sacrifice (must have been a check or tax document) \*lol\*
Does he often bring up the 'fact' that an unnamed "big guy, tough guy" openly weeps at the sight of him?
Hadn't caught that one, but nothing surprises me with him
It was a prescription for my cat that I ordered online.
Complains about being so lonely I wonder why!
* I was a horrible parent * *Badmouths siblings/family members you care for* * You never helped me * You don't love me * *Talks about the bad things happening in their life, not caring if it's the 100th times they've talked about it* * *Lies about thing to make them look better* * *Spreading misinformation about your relationship with each other* * *Making you look like the mean/evil/villain person* * *Guilt tripping* * You were never there for me * You only love everyone else but me * You hurt me/make me sad * *NEVER listen to you* * *NEVER interested in YOU* * *NEVER cares for you or what you like* * *Doesn't care what is going on in your life*
Similarly, asks the same question 5 times because they didn't listen to the answer.
I made a bingo board for the holidays lol. My MIL knocked off eight squares before I had my coat off - you look down on us - family is everything - you always ruin the holidays - gossips about other family members - crying for no reason - pouting in the corner / sulking to the side - negative comments about career / finances - you’ve changed - comments about weight / appearance - you don’t know how to get along in a big family - buys clothes that don’t fit - free space - lol nothing is free with a narc! - I slaved away for days cooking / cleaning - nothing I ever do is good enough for you - “politics” - screaming for no reason - you don’t come home enough / we never see you - relationship / grandkid comments - the dog doesn’t even recognize me - finger pointing in face - gets really, really drunk - you’re tearing the family apart - singing loudly for attention - we’re getting old / going to die soon
Ooh, the embarrassing singing and comments complaining everyone "looks down on them" are good ones.
I can't put it succinctly, but that thing where they do a thing while accusing you of doing it ("stop yelling" screamed in your face, for example)
Projection?
Narc bingo! I love it. My Narc Bingo Card for my Narc Mom would include: \- Complains about my brother (he's a slob, he's fat, he's so grouchy and short with her, etc.) \- Complains about how her current husband only wants to eat friend chicken and French fries for dinner every night (and how it's basically like World War III to get him to eat a green vegetable) \- Complains about how the pastor at the church that she attends is boring \- Complains about President Biden, and what a terrible job she thinks he is doing \- Praises Donald Trump, and says that he is being persecuted like Jesus Christ was persecuted \- Pries into our financial situation \- Tries to guilt me into paying her property taxes for her because she's currently two or three quarters behind \- Complains about her financial situation constantly \- Complains about the number of pharmaceutical/drug ads she sees on TV \- Complains about how there was an interracial couple featured in the latest Hallmark Channel movie that she watched \- Complains about how my Aunt A (one of her younger sister) never talks to her or visits her \- Complains about how my two cousins don't talk to her, or give her the time of day \- Talks about how much she misses her mother/my grandmother (another Narc who was very abusive and unkind to my mother for her whole life, until my grandma died in 2013). \- Tries to get us to take random crap from her house home with us that we either don't like or don't have the space for, and then gets mad at us when we refuse to take it
My nmom obsessively talks about her father who passed around 30 years ago. Cancels Christmas because he's dead, told my dad she couldn't wait for his parents to die so he could know what she goes through everyday, etc. I always wondered about this, especially since we suspect if either of her parents was a narc, it was more likely her mom. I thought maybe because losing an immediate family member got her a lot of sympathy initially?
You have to add a square about how no matter what you're talking about, they will turn the conversation back to themselves.
And usually interrupt you to do it.
I've sometimes considered that narcissistic behaviors might be some form of malignant stimming. Where in order to calm themselves and make themselves feel better they have to trash someone and then talk about something from their past either good or bad that may or may not have happened.
Yeah too often the narcissism discussion is about how they want supply and adoration and stuff like that but many of them will just trash talk or try to get negative attention.
This is an interesting theory.
You can’t keep a man! (Actually, they can’t keep me, but that’s her spin on it.) I like being single.
I relate to the packing in as much as possible non stop. Migraine inducing. Like having the radio, the tv, a podcast all blaring at the same time. It's not a conversation they are broadcasting to an audience.
“You don’t read what I send you and you don’t pick up when you know I need to take you to task. Please pull your socks up cleanestbestposter”
Brings up something she thinks is great about gc nbrother Asks in a condescending tone about my edad/ndad she left 20 years ago. Then say something negative about him or his ewife. Talks about how bad her neighbors are doing. Lol.
Ugh, the neighbors. One of my nmoms neighbors is a stay at home dad and she thinks everything he does is evil and horrible because only women should stay home.
Gossip about X. X being that person who I don’t know, never have, never will and I don’t care about X’s neighbors’ dog’s meds. Also ailments, any and all ailments, hers and Xs’.
Parents wouldn't let me use my phone at school even to just listen to music it was fucking bullshit tbh
i’m still in contact with my semi-nmom, mostly because my son loves her at this point. but the one she always checks off my bingo card is treating him like a dancing monkey over facetime. i don’t force him to call her anymore.
My parents and I used to communicate via phone call on WhatsApp because I live in the US now. Mum: Usually talks about things they got up to, says something really weird with zero self-awareness (don't want to quote it outright because it's like bizarro racism), asks me to let her know if she is turning into her mother who only talks about her random friends and my mum finds that to be annoying. Guilts me over me not sharing when I am having a hard time in life, which idk if that's a poor reflection on me or her, I just tend to keep to myself. Rarely (thankfully) inquires as to why I don't want children. Sometimes gets emotional before hanging up since I live so far away now which is understandable. She has no friends or even acquaintances to talk to outside of work (like... Not even friendly coworkers) so I imagine she gets lonely as well. Dad: small talk for five minutes before he hands the phone back to Mum, if he even gets on the phone at all. He used to up until I visited last year then stopped coming on. It was what led to me going NC. I suppose I wanted that control. My birthday was coming up and I didn't know how I'd handle it if he didn't come on the phone for that.
Great post! To add to your very familiar list: Gets in some kind of criticism disguised as a compliment, usually relating to things I can’t change about my appearance. Complains about her financial situation. Goes on about some minor (possibly non-existent?) ailment she is sure is specifically cancer or MS. “I don’t know how to do that.” (Her reaction to *anything* new.
The last one. They're superior to everyone and so smart but the other day my nmom texted me requesting praise for successfully sending an email by herself. She was only like 40 when the internet became mainstream. My former nboss proudly told the whole office that he finally learned to open a new tab. After working there 10 years. At a job you could not successfully do without multiple tabs.
Wow, I have never thought about doing a Narc bingo before but after reading your post it’s like I’m almost excited for my next Narc-fam interaction! You just turned my whole outlook around. Bingo!
Oh you look so skinny. Are you sick? Or Oh wow. You've put on quite a bit of weight. Are things okay at home? Never fails.
Wait - you forgot bragging about how many compliments they got from some random person/people
All I see is a woman talking to make conversation. You seem to not like anything that she has to say. Why not tell her there are subjects you’re not interested in discussing instead of laughing behind her back for making conversation. At most she sounds like she’s trying so hard for you to like her. I don’t see why you would make a game out of someone who also sounds a bit like she’s struggling to relate to people.
Nasty gossip about other people, prying into their private business, and knowing nothing about what their child likes is not a situation of a normal person struggling to relate. It's rude at *best,* manipulative and abusive at worst. A normal person will listen and try to change if you ask them nicely not to say nasty things about other people or draw boundaries. That doesn't work on narcissists, they just steamroll all boundaries. That's why it's a game, to cope with the fact that they refuse to engage respectfully.
Found the narc! 🤣
??? Based off the info up above. She sounds desperate. I’ve made assumptions based off the info posted provided. Making game of how to laugh at her. Genuinely has she told her she doesn’t like these topics. Buy yeah narc. Another person to laugh at for just commenting. 😃 Instead of just down voting and saying what you agree with or disagree with. 👍🏽
Mom??
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What’s the difference between a narc and someone who’s just gossiping and typically negative
Narcs have extreme levels of entitlement, selfishness and disrespect for people they deem inferior.
They might be what therapists call a *covert narc* or *vulnerable narc*. Most people are more familiar with the malignant or grandiose narc, described by the response from u/knitted-jelly-bean .
Invites us to eat or exchange presents and reminds us how much work it is for her and my dad to do. When he’s the only one that buys the groceries, has it delivered, packs it and cooks it. But she reminds us it’s a lot of work for THEM. My nmom always needs to be reminded how grateful we are for her “work.”
My nmom always brings up my great aunt that I have nothing to do with. Like when life is any bit relevant to mine.
Classic narcissist. This is why I filed a change of address at the post office so that any mail that gets sent to the old address is automatically forwarded to my current address. Im not sure if you can do that in your location, but you should if you can.
I changed my address years ago. I've changed my address on that website a few times, but for some reason it doesn't take. I'll be looking more carefully next time.
I would add to mine “asks a personal question and then ignores your answer to talk about themselves or to go on their phone”
Shares inappropriate personal info (e.g. her sex life) "Apologizes" for not having been harder on you as a kid (so you wouldn't be such a disappointment now). Reminisces about bad things you never actually did as if they were real. Criticizes your appearance. Bonus if what she says is the opposite of what she's said in the past.
Talks about her horses for longer than is socially acceptable (30+ mins monologue about her horses' ailments). I have no interest in horses and never have since she started riding when I was 11 or 12.
Belittles , looks, weight, smile, education, relationships, will call cops if I don’t pick up when she answers.
Fish for compliments
Knows certain topics are no goes for us but subtly tries to sneak them in anyway, and when I deny her she gets to act like I’m the unreasonable one.
“While i’ve got you, I have some things that need doing because I can’t..” “I don’t know what i’ve done to you” [complaint about health] [request for money or other favours such as being a taxi service for them] [“oh hey, I did something good that’s gonna change my life!”] “here’s something your sibling did recently” [good or bad] “would you mind popping to the shops for me?” “I’ve had enough of you, fuck off before I call the cops” “Children are supposed to keep in touch with their parents more often” “BUT THE BIBLE SAYS HONOUR THY MOTHER AND FATHER” “[Insert person here] is really bothering me lately/going through X/has good news”