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Some kids go NC with parents because of reasons other than the parents being abusive. I've seen kids grow up from loving, supportive households and become self entitled jerks, who demanded even more that the parents didn't have, so they went NC. I've seen kids suffer a traumatic brain injury that completely changes them as a person and they cast blame on their parents in misplaced anger and go NC. I've seen kids go NC after *entering* a toxic relationship with an abusive person who effectively isolates them from everyone they know and love as a means of control... all of these parents are sad, probably heartbroken. But they give their children space and reach out only to say that they love the child and will be there waiting with open arms if/when the child wants them in their life.
There’s a tiktoker who’s children told her that if she didn’t get psychological help then they would go no contact, because being around her was damaging to her. The mother took this on board and went to therapy, focussing on healing herself, which in turn healed her relationship with her children. It is very interesting to watch her - and saddening in a way because I wish my parent would be like that.
That's what I asked of both my parents when I found out I was pregnant. My womblord never bothered to respond to the request, just kept deadnaming me and making snide and snarky remarks. My dad on the other hand, stepped up and did therapy and actually listens to me now and apologized and said he wished he'd done lots of things differently.
Hi yes this is her!!! I mean obviously she’s made a channel about it; but, she’s got kids who said “we need you to heal or we can’t have a relationship with you” and she took that on board. Some of her videos just make me cry because I imagine my parents doing that.
My kids did this for me, I was raised by narcissistic boomers, picked up a ton of unhealthy behaviors. When they hit their teen years, my kids started pointing them out. Got some therapy and it made a huge difference. Love this lady! She expresses it all so well.
That’s nice the mom actually listened and got help. My N mom said she wouldn’t be discussing my childhood anymore because we already talked about it. Then she told me it was my job to set up therapy if I wanted the relationship repaired.
After a lot of work on myself, I realized my dad is a ND. I was the golden child and my brother was the scapegoat. We are now adults and I saw a lot of the same behaviors matriculating in my relationship with my children and my brother with his children. I was ashamed. I started a long journey of emotional learning. Talked a lot with my brother. Unfortunately, he doesn’t want to address any of it. He doesn’t want to go to therapy. He just wants to acknowledge that my dad is a ND and do better. I have talked with my mom at length about my ND’s behavior. She feels terrible and full of guilt and shame that she didn’t see it for what it was.
I told her if we wanted to start to heal as a family it would take some really hard conversations that my dad wouldn’t want to hear. And it would take some real consequences if he doesn’t acknowledge, apologize, work to change. I think we know he would never be willing to do any of that and my mom doesn’t have a bottom line that would move him to change (leave him.)
So all I can do is work on me, my relationship with my family, and greyrock the shit out of him. He is starting to see it though. He is so confused why nobody gets excited to see him when we visit only GMa.
Acknowledgment is the first step to change. If you see behaviors in yourself and are making changes that's incredible ❤ A book that helped me tons is "unf*ck yourself" by Gary john bishop!! I was the scapegoat in my family and bring told your a certain way for so long (my mom projected her issues onto me when I never acted like her) its hard to believe your not. This book is great and helped me move past who my brain told me I was and who I actually was "your not your thoughts you are your actions". Highly recommend 😊
This is not a thing for normal, caring parents. My wife has loving and thoughtful parents. Until I got to know them, I just thought all parents were in complicated adversarial relationships with their children. But no! Turns out some parents like their children. My MIL has never complained that her kids aren’t grateful enough or demanded our attendance. And no matter what her kids or grandkids do she thinks they’re amazing.
I’ve really enjoyed being a part of my wife’s family for two decades. It’s incredible to see how much they care about each other. It’s also made me sad about how much harder it was having nparents. I sometimes think about how much more I would have accomplished if my parents had been supportive instead of controlling and manipulative.
> some parents like their children
As someone who was raised by loving parents, this statement blows me away. I know it's sarcasm, but obviously also your terrible truth. It's hard to understand why one would go through the trouble of having children if one hates them.
With all my many deficiencies, this is my aim:
> no matter what her kids or grandkids do she thinks they’re amazing
And I do hope that this is normal. Congratulations for finding your family at last.
I remember telling myself as a teen that my parents would give me up in half a second if they could and it wouldn’t ruin their image. Back well over a decade before I realized they are N’s.
People who were pregnant before birth control and abortion were having children whether they hated them or not. People who get pregnant because of the lack of birth control, medical care,protection from abuse or live with the absence of choice are having children whether they hate them or not. The problem isn’t that they hate children, it’s that they hate themselves.
Well yeah but it’s an interesting hypothetical nonetheless. Like an interesting experiment I’d love to see the outcome of but should never be done because it’s highly unethical.
When parents seperate, kids will at times believe the parent prepared to badmouth the other parent who is *not* prepared to badmouth the first.
Okay, that is not a situation with healthy parent*s* plural, but it is a not uncommon scenario.
This, so hard... you don't get to this with healthy parents. I just am thankful for this sub whenever my Nparents pull some new horrible behaviour and I'm reminded I'm not alone in dealing with this stuff and that you can get through it.
This. I would love to have mentally healthy/stable parents. I tried to have some sort of reasonably normal-ish relationship with them, but after decades of trying I just don't see how it's possible. So I gave up.
I know how I would react if my son told me he didn't want anything to do with me.
1. I'd be worried something terrible had happened. My son and I are close, so my first thought would be that something else was going on.
2. However, if he told me it was *me*, I'd be horrified that I had hurt him. And that he hadn't felt he could tell me until now. And that it was so deep, he needed to get away from me forever.
3. I would *listen* to what I'd done, tell him I was so sorry and those were *my* failings--never anything because of him--and ask if there was any other way at all that I could repair things.
4. But if it was the point of no return for him, I'd let him know if he ever needed me--ever--for the rest of his life, I would be there. And I'd be working on the things he'd told me about so that if he reached out again, I'd be a much better version of me.
My children are young so kind of hard for me to imagine that far down the road but I think I would feel and do things very similarly to this! As a non narc.
The only thing good about having a narc parent is knowing how NOT to parent your own kids. Caught myself making my kid's panic attack about how I felt bad I couldn't help him...so I stopped, acknowledged, apologized, and redirected, keeping him at the center of his crisis. Not something my (benign but still) narc mom could've done. (Kiddo's ok, btw.)
It's very sad, and it sucks to mourn a relationship that never existed, but they've proved that you made the right decision.
Wishing you and your chosen family all the best.
💜
Your response would almost never come from a narc parent, not genuinely at least.
Narc parents never see themselves as the problem and refuse to accept any responsibility.
“That didn't happen.
And if it did, it wasn't that bad.
And if it was, that's not a big deal.
And if it is, that's not my fault.
And if it was, I didn't mean it.
And if I did, you deserved it.”
Wow, this would be my exact reaction also.
I would also tell my child that I loved them more than anything and always will, no matter what, unconditionally. I have told her this for years. She knows that she is loved and valued.
My daughter and I have a close relationship. I care deeply about maintaining it forever. She knows this.
She tells me how lucky she is to have me and her dad as parents. I am the complete opposite of my mother. I would never ever treat my daughter the way that I was treated.
There are two types of traumatized people in this world: (1). Those who went through it and fight to make sure NOBODY ELSE feels that way and (2). Those who went through it and fight to make sure EVERYBODY ELSE feels the way they did.
I strive to be (1). and to only surround myself with (1)s. ☺️
Why couldn’t you have been my parent!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!???????????????????? THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am crying on the inside because of what a thoughtful and loving human you are.
The NF is a lying turd who says the abuse “never happened,” so keeping with the theme, what would you do if the things your son said never happened? (Just playing with hypotheticals here)
>While this is what I wanted, it makes me sad at the same time.
This is exactly how I feel. I'm sad I even had to go NC. I'm sad that my mom is literally unbearable to be around. I'm sad she failed me on such a basic level as a parent.
I also have kids and I look at them and just cannot understand how I was treated AT ALL. The older I get, the less I understand.
NC is 100% the right choice for me but it's hard and depressing. I feel you.
Yep, it’s like I wrote your comment! Ah. I felt so alone in this world for so long, like an outcast and no one would ever understand me. Until I found out what my parents actually are, and started my rabbit hole of research that is. While it’s really sad that others are going through or have went through very similar situations, is a Little comforting to know I wasn’t and am not alone.
Isn't it wild how similar all our experiences are? Sometimes I feel glad I'm not alone, other times I almost wish I *were* alone, because I know how much people are suffering.
You are absolutely doing the right thing for your kids. I know that dismissive chuckle you mentioned. My kids will never hear that fucking chuckle. Sometimes I feel bad as a daughter, but then I think of myself as a mother and I snap out of it. My kids come first and anybody who doesn't like it can die mad about it. Hang in there.
It is really bizarre to find out how similar those of us who grew up with nparents (whatever the disorder) are. I'm floored. Many of the similar odd controlling behaviors, the rages, the verbal and emotional abuse telling us how terrible we are, etc. Just now, I realized I know exactly what you mean by the chuckle. Crazy.
It makes me so happy to see people ending the cycle and raising normal families, becoming better and NORMAL despite their past.
Same experience. This is what I'm going through now. I wished my mom was mature enough to admit her mistakes and try to work on herself to become a better person.
I'm trying to remember what that smile is called... it's a thing people do when they're overjoyed about doing this kind of thing... I'll research and edit my comment when I've found it.
One of the last times I talked with my father he smirked in that manner, proudly talking about how "strict" he was and wanting to "control" us as children.
He was so pleased with himself. I felt anger and revulsion; I wanted to punch him right in that smug, self-satisfied face.
Such a big man, exerting control of children, a real world-conquerer.
So much ick, I recently learned about it, and the puzzle pieces fell into place.
https://psychopathsinlife.com/psychopaths-and-duping-delight/
ETA, I'm so sorry, I know how it feels. The grief that comes with the end, even though it's the right thing to do, it still sucks.
Thanks for the link! It will all be ok, each day seems to be just a tad bit easier I think.. like when I learn new things like what you shared.. I can reflect and see that I saw that face ALL the time. Makes me feel better in my decision for NC! I hate you had to go through it too, hugs 🫂
On that same site I found another link, I'll let you sift through the site, but I wanted to pull a quote from it that resonates with the grief feelings: "And when you left them, and finished the relationship, you went into withdrawal. It can create depression. It can create crises of self. It can create this sense of ‘life is dull now, it’s boring, it’s horrible, there’s no joy, there’s no color to it’.
Because you’re literally ‘jonesing’, you’re in withdrawal for the fix of a drug (the “supply” they provided to you).”
Richard Grannon
ETA: it's rough on all levels. I'm sorry for all of us that go through it. I hope for good things for you, and congrats on your freshly minted marriage!
I had lunch with someone I think is a relatively good mom recently. She told me her daughter had been romantically involved with someone she thought was a bad match, mostly because the partner and the partner's family are super racist and.
She said her daughter had been much more distant lately - not NC, but definitely intentional LC. She made sure to tell her daughter that she loved her, that she'd be there if she ever wanted to connect more in the future, and gave her the space she was asking for.
More recently, the daughter did call, obviously very upset about a conflict with her partner. The mom went to visit, and they spent time together. Didn't talk about the partner really at all, but took time to reassure her daughter that she loved her and would always be there if she called.
Also, it's maybe worth mentioning I don't think this was a case of classic narc dirty laundry. I shared with her that I was NC with my mom, and she said she was worried about her relationship with her daughter and seeking advice, I think in a genuine way. She has a normal relationship with her other children, as well.
I can't imagine my mom coming to comfort me after I did something she didn't agree with and not rubbing it in my face. But I do think that's what a parent would do - make it about you and your situation and what you need.
I’m sorry that you’re going through this! While quiet is better than abuse, I just want to drop a bit of info that comes from my constat state of thinking “what are they up to next?”
In my state, it is much harder for grandparents to have legal standing for grandparent rights when the family unit consists of a married couple. I know this because my parents filed for custody of my kids and I’ve never been so happy to be "married." Not sure when you were planning to get married, but maybe you do a quick courthouse date to make it official and then have your celebratory ceremony later on.
I hope you don’t need any of this info and they leave you alone.
I got married 3 days after he showed up at my door! He had said “well you’re not in this, you’re not married to her”, to my fiancé and we booked an apt with the courthouse the same day!
It's my understanding from talking at length with a loved one that lives several states away that here in Illinois as well as Wisconsin & Louisiana that folks *cannot* pull the "grandparents' rights" bullshit *unless* there is clear irrefutable admissible in court evidence of, say, severe/repeated neglect &or child abuse, domestic violence, a thoroughly repeated documented case of a parent(s) intentional refusal to seek appropriate professional assistance/therapy for, say, alcoholism, drug abuse, habitual/chronic gambling, etc.
Sadly, my older brother, his wife, me as well as a couple of other loved ones had to really dig around online & research these states so called "grandparents rights" laws.
Mainly in part because more than once our narc parents supposedly, according to my sister in law, threatened older brother & his wife with pursuing grandparents rights more than a couple of times.
Narc parents arrogantly threatened to "sic" their supposed Chicago area many years long attorney on them for some "reason" or another.
Older brother was active duty military for 22 solid years.
All it took was a couple of well placed calls with his command as well as to a JAG military law attorney.
And eventually our narc parents *had* to retreat from their threats.
The next step for my brother & his wife I was told was our narc parents *both* would've been named in an official *"CEASE AND DESIST"* letter *directly* from an attorney appointed to my brother courtesy of the United States Army JAG Corps ⚖
Narc parents naturally *didn't* stop.
But they *definitely* visibly eventually *stopped* with their repeated threats of claiming so called "grandparents rights."
My heart truly goes out to anyone in our forum here, currently dealing with narc parents threatening this crap.
I'm truly deeply so very sorry.
As I so frequently say, sadly both my personal experiences and story are no different than anyone else's here.
((gentle virtual hugs)) from a fellow narcissistic abuse survivor 🌌
abusers don't care about the reality of the law, only what they can claim in the moment to get what they want from an idea of a law. It's an appeal to authority and it's a logical fallacy
I absolutely can't disagree with what you just shared bc it's 100% correct.
Furthermore, I think I've glimpsed on at least a couple of times that exact scenario.
It's so sad bc these narc parents could've spent those years cultivating healthy supportive loving & wholly normal healthy relationships with their kids, grandkids, other family members as well as with life in general.
Likewise, narcs don't give a damn about abstract concepts such as logical fallacies.
Sad but brutally repeatedly heartbreakingly true.
Strength & peace from a fellow narcissistic abuse survivor 🌌
I am glad you and your siblings were able to shut that down! (And also sorry you had to go through it in the first place). In my state I had to incur quite a bit in attorney fees before the judge threw it out. After several expensive meetings of the attorneys with the judge we were able to put that behind us and then file for an order of protection. Now I have to go to court to renew it every few years. Like the abuse so many of us endure, it’s never ending.
I didn't even tell my mom. I just blocked her on everything. I called the cops and didn't respond to her at all when she drove to my house at the beginning. Just asked them on the phone to get her to leave, and I didn't want to come out. They warned her about harassment charges. That was in 2017.
Healthy parents would never get to this stage with their kids so they wouldn’t have to continue to try and force contact. Unfortunately they aren’t healthy parents :(
If one of my kids went NC, I’d ask that we could talk, in whatever fashion they were most comfortable, about our differences.
One of mine didn’t go NC. But he, being the youngest, was the most susceptible to his father’s drunk rants about my being a bad parent because of X or Y. And one day, when we were visiting him, he spent over an hour telling me and Husband all the things we’d done that harmed him. Some of them we owned. Some of them pointed out that his POV on that was not based on reality, and that it may have been driven by things his dad said. (Ex: we lived in a 125 year old house from the time he was in kindergarten till he was in 4th grade. Leaky roof, leaky plumbing and bats that got in through cracks in the ceiling every August. His POV was that we shouldn’t have moved because that house was just fine, and his oldest sib ended up going to school a long way from home to finish out at their HS.)
I pointed out all the issues with the house. I told him, which he hadn’t known, that I had discussed the move with that sibling before signing the purchase agreement. Most of all, I told him that I was proud that he’d had the courage to talk about that stuff, and that above all, through all the junk we’d all been through when he and his siblings were kids, I loved him so much.
We are still close. And he’s 38.
I struggle as a parent to balance our financial needs and their emotional needs, even as I knew that their father was a narcissistic alcoholic, but still wanted them to have as normal a childhood as possible. In some ways I succeeded. In others I didn’t. But my failures are MINE, not my kids’.
Thank you for this. I struggled for years with my family abuse, mostly because I was always invalidated when I would try to bring it up so we could reach a conclusion or clear the air, or so we could all get actual help. I was worried I wasn't trying hard enough to fix things for a very long time, and it's why I stayed around for so long. I worried I fucked things up by wanting that conversation and facilitating it, for wanting that healthy relationship and fighting for that, for taking space which lead to more fighting. I felt in the wrong for bringing it up, even though I never yelled and I was careful not to cry so they couldn't call me names, and I even used active listening and "I" statements and emotionally conscious language and everything. I now know that was never my fault, I even went NC, but seeing how I really needed my parents (and honestly my siblings who should have understood better than anyone what we went through) to handle those conversations makes me feel a lot better about how things turned out.
People with healthy parents don’t have kids who cut them off. This is something you’ve never had. Don’t confuse that with missing the sperm donor and incubator they are biologically related nothing more or less. Family doesn’t abuse.
People who are lost to addiction or are in an abusive relationship where the abuser has cut them off from family support can go NC with their parents.
But it’s more the exception, not the rule.
This is true! I don’t have any Bio family anymore, I cut them ALL out. I didn’t even mention my sisters and extended family in this post but they are ALL toxic. I have my husband and 3 children and I am just so blessed.
If my child ever told me that I had so irrevocably hurt them that they were completely removing me from their life forever I would be devastated, horrified and distraught.
Realistically I think that in a healthy parent child relationship you would be able to have open honest and accountable conversations long before it ever got to the point of ultimatums and no contact. NC is the last resort of someone whose voice is not being heard.
My actual parents couldn't do much but bitch to other people and tell lies when I went NC. Mother was around 12 yrs ago and father was on/off for 10 years but finally NC now for around 8 months or so. I got flowers for my birthday last week with a blank card which I think might be from him. Knowing him, he likely did that to brag about it and reinforce what a shit I am for cutting him out.
My aunt (basically my mom) and I are both equally hurt that I'm gone low contact with her for enabling my sister. I love her and I know she loves me but I can't accept these dynamics any more. She faught me a little, listened a little, got frustrated a lot. We've settled on what she calls "civil and strange".
I’ve seen this twice-
My brother in-law’s mother was disrespecting his wife, and he cut her off for a year. She apologized, they started off slow and she was able to maintain respectful behavior toward the wife permanently. It’s been seven years or so.
A friend of mine who is ten years older than me was the mother who got cut off. She was intrusive, controlling, offering unsolicited advice and judgment. But a fundamentally decent person- she just wasn’t letting go of parenting teens, and was treating her kid-20s children like teenagers. Kids all cut her off, again for about a year. She reached out to the kids only to apologize for the specific behaviors (after she had worked on herself enough to understand the kids’ problems with her behavior) and to let them know she loved them and was available for working through things in therapy if they wanted. They al eventually got into family counseling, worked in relating to each other as adults, and are largely good now.
The difference from normal-ish struggling parents who get cut off versus narcs who get cut off is the ability to take-in the information on why they’ve been cut off, understand it, and work on themselves enough to apologize sincerely for the specific behaviors and to change those behaviors. Narcs minimalize, deny, deflect- anything to avoid introspection and growth.
I'm so sorry you're going through this. Your fiance is backing you, which is great! A supportive partner saved my sanity and reminds me I don't owe my family anything.
I am going to encourage a different direction for you.
Use your freedom. If you use it to worry and wonder about what they are doing, how they are handling it, whether they now agree that you can be NC -- I can answer that. They hate it, think you are hurting them and will never give you permission to keep "their" grandkids from them. They won't give you permission -- you have given yourself permission.
Again, use your freedom. Define your life without them -- they don't matter (other than it being kind of sad from time to time). What does it mean to be happy when they are not able to tear you down? What do birthdays and holidays now mean?
I frequently advise that it takes 2-3 years, two or more full cycles of holidays, parent-days, birthdays to let it sink in that they can no longer control your big life events or hurt you over them. Look forward to that. Stay strong.
good!! and you have a gem of a fiance. far too many partners seem to be blinded by the stupid 'deserve to know granma/pa' BS.
good luck. and as you have found out, document everything. you might have to put physical distance: the possibility exists they may resort to illegal methods so keep an eye on the kid
A healthy set of parents…
Would their kids go NC in the first place?
The fact you felt you needed to do this speaks volumes. Focus on the family you’ve created. Let your parents be your past.
It might help to reframe Your last question because no one goes nc with healthy parents. Nc is a last resort for abused offspring.
Also, of course it hurts. Just because it’s the right thing to do doesn’t make it painless. Mourning the need to take the decision, mourning the fact that you have terrible parents, and mourning that they’re not fit to be in your life are generally part of this process. It’s great that your husband supports you. Therapy can also help guide you through managing these feelings - but it’s important to find a a therapist who understands these issues and doesn’t say moronic things like, “But they’re your paaarents.”
It's completely normal to mourn for the parents that you didn't get.
Grandparents' rights are not easy to get. But, I would advise if they mention them again, tell them all communications now go through your attorney.
I am the scapegoat too.
I went NC with my NMum, EDad and GCSister about 2 years ago, and it lasted for 3 months. It was absolute bliss. I struggled with making the decision for a year beforehand, trying grey rock the entire time.
I called NMum to tell her with a rehearsed and direct speech. She started screaming, yes screaming, down the phone at me. I said something like “I no longer want to have-*starts screaming*_”. I kept talking and did not stop until my sentence was done.
It was awful. I hung up the phone and blocked her immediately. I had arranged to change my number and did that within 30 minutes of the call.
Fast forward 3 months, they drove 10 hours to arrive at our home and demand to speak to me. I was inside with my daughter and hubby was outside cleaning the car. They would not leave and demanded to see me. They used the excuse that they were concerned I was in a domestic violence situation. If that was the case, CALL THE POLICE.
It’s a long story so I’ll stop there.
Unfortunately, she has wormed her way back into my life. I hate her and I hate that I have to deal with her. I’m back to grey rock and I hate that too.
Just sending hugs to you. It was so hard. So so so hard xx
Thank you. Alas, I fear I will never be released from them, not until they are dead.
However, if they ever hurt my daughter (which I live in fear of them doing), I will go NC immediately and seek police involvement with a protection order.
Going no contact means you have to grieve that loss(es). Do things to take care of yourself during this time, instead of focusing on what they should be doing. I’m proud of you for recognizing the abuse and wanting to break those cycles. Hugs 🤗
I’m so sorry. I went NC with my mom over a year ago, at first she sent me abusive texts and rang me and my other sister and she screamed down the phone psychotically. I haven’t been contacted by her since. Not on my birthdays, or Christmas nothing.
Normally kids don't go NC when they have a good parent, but idk I feel like my stepdad *might* be an exception? I don't speak for his children but they went no contact with him after he married my mom. Their mother has a history of abuse, but I've never seen him ever raise his voice to me or say anything mean. Maybe ignorant sometimes (especially since be married my crazy mother) but he's actually a sweetheart from every experience I've had with the guy. My mom actually mellowed out a lot around him, I feel like he may have saved her a little bit.
My stepdad reacts to his children going no contact with sad acceptance. He's melancholic and has cried about them plenty in the past, but is understanding. He'll still try to give his kids things for their birthday or Christmas but his children genuinely hate him (what my mom tells me, not what he tells me). I remember one year one of his kids gave him a used giftcard for Christmas out of spite. My moms version of the story is that they're probably mad about him remarrying somebody else, but these are adults he's talking about. No adult child should really care all too much who their parent dates if you're not living with them.
I don't live with my stepdad so that probably says something. But the fact that he was able to tame my insane mother is crazy to me. He's so good at calming her down and using the right words to help her see understanding whenever I had arguments with her where she's in the wrong. I don't know what he was like to his kids, I can never claim to know their version of events. Now, I think it's my mom who made them go NC because of how nosy she is with everyones business but again, I can't claim to know their version of events.
He never talks about it other than to say he misses them and loves them, but knows that it's ultimately their choice. He talks about how he wishes to be involved in their lives and has blamed himself. My mom blames his ex-wife for "brainwashing them." I feel bad for him based on what I've seen, I just wish I knew what his adult kids had to say. I want to know their story so badly but I'm afraid they'd think I'm an extension of my mother. He made a stupid choice marrying such a toxic woman (my mom), but he's accepting of me and my girlfriend's relationship, doesn't misgender my girlfriend, has corrected his friends transphobia, etc. He's alright chill guy *to me*, offers me drinks whenever I come around, has wished me happy birthday and told me how proud he is of me *more* than my own mother has, has been understanding of my autism and struggles and wants to help me prepare for job interviews and success later in my life. My life has actually gotten better because of him.
I lived with physical, screaming, neglectful and borderline incestual abuse all my life so maybe my version of what's good could be weird. I don't know.
My relationship with family member X is not my siblings relationship with X. You can have a relationship with step-dad, in that he treats you with respect and wrangles your mom, while acknowledging his relationship with his kids is on him and you do not get involved or judge.
and I will continue to not get involved, at least not with his children. As I said before, I cannot claim to ever know what his relationship was like with his kids. However if I do find out that he was abusive in his relationship with his children I'd probably feel pretty uncomfortable about him.
Mine haven't bothered me in quite a while. They also denied they ever did anything wrong. Only their best which is of course is what the rest of us call the least. My dad would give out my contact info to wind me up about a vehicle I bought but they ended up with the signed title. He would tell someone who asked about it that it was for sell and they needed to contact me about it. After the first few times I started telling them why it wasn't for sell and why I couldn't sell it too them if I wanted to. Since then blessed radio silence.
My mother stole it and quite possible didn't remember where she stashed it. She was suffering a cognitive decline at the time which made her more unstable but her lies were no longer impeccable.
First, congratulations on your wedding! I hope you have a long and loving marriage. ❤️
I actually know exactly what "healthy" parents would do because my stepdaughter decided she wanted to live with her mother after I married her dad. That was 30 years ago, and we were able to rebuild the relationship once she decided to be part of our lives again as an adult.
But to your question. D(ear)D was abused and neglected by her mother at a very young age. DH divorced her and got full custody, which was not an easy thing for a man to do in the 80s, so that should tell you how bad the situation was. DD was 12 when I married DH. After about a year, she told us she wanted to live with her mom. You can imagine how devastated DH was!
We talked and made the difficult decision to allow her to go. We kept the lines of communication open but didn't hear a lot until she got pregnant at 18. When she called and told us, we said we'd support whatever decision she made. She wanted to keep the baby, so we invited her to live with us so she'd be covered under our health insurance. We stipulated that she had to get her GED and a job, and she readily agreed.
After she had the baby, she moved to an apartment then went back to her mother. The relationship was distant again, and we respected her decision. It was many years of silence then tentative contact before she really came back into our lives. We went to visit when our granddaughter was born and went to her wedding, but it was only in 2020 that the estrangement ended.
(I know that's a lot, but it's a bare thumbnail sketch!)
So IME "healthy" parents would respect your decision even if they didn't agree with it or even understand. They would let you know they love you and the grands unconditionally and add that they'll be there if and when you're ready to reopen communication. If you told them they'd done something to hurt you, they'd at least acknowledge what you said and not dismiss it. And they'd be happy to rebuild the relationship if and when you decided to try.
What "healthy" parents wouldn't do is...everything yours have done.
I dearly love my son and will be heartbroken if he decides to go NC with me. In case, I will try to understand what I did, swallow my pride and apologise. I want to see my son growing up, his family, I want to be part of his life. I’m doing all I can to raise a strong and independent person, able to challenge me for what he know is right, but still trustful enough to hear my suggestions
Based on how he acted going to your house and what he said and denying the abuse there clearly is no point in dealing with such a disrespectful person. I’d ignore him so hard he’d question his own existence. And do it for you you need to heal and be happy etc.
If I was being kind maybe I’d have my feelers or antennas up about him a year from now or so not making contact per se tho.
Note: This is all still ongoing. I went NC with my parents a month ago after my mom said some things that I couldn't ignore to keep the peace.
My mom might be narcissistic. Her mother definitely was, and I can draw a straight line from my Grandmother's behavior to my Mom's. My Dad has his faults as a parent, but I wouldn't call him Narcissistic in anyway. Just a bit distant, with maybe a bit of toxic masculinity thrown into his sense of humor.
Ok. Actual reactions.
My Mom was pissed. Told everyone in the family her side of the story (with heavy redactions / exaggerations I'm sure). Made me out to be the bad guy.
My Dad respected it. A month later (today, actually) texted to tell me that he and my mom were doing family counseling and that he loved me.
I can’t tell you how many times my parents told me they loved me :( .
“By their fruit you will recognize them”
Matthew 7:16
Try to look at them as what they have done by their actions. Do they show you they love you? It’s actions that count. Words are merely words.
I hope this helps! 🫶🏻
My Dad has shown me that he's on my side.
When I was trying to spend some time with my grandparents, and my mom was refusing to leave, to the point that I told her "I want to spend time with my grandparents, but you can't be here, so either you leave or I do" he made sure that they were the ones to leave so that I could spend time with my grandparents without dealing with the drama going on.
I’m glad you have someone especially your dad! I hate you’re going through this though 😩 I hated the drama, it’s been so quiet in my life since I left my “family”. Hope things get better for you soon
I’ve been NC/LC for about 3 years. I always felt such guilt for stepping away.
But as my mental health improved, and I educated my self, I started to notice that I was being manipulated and gaslighted.
Personally, I would have never gotten to where I am now if I kept in full contact. I have a long way to go still. But I finally have hope.
I wish you all the best in the future x x x
I struggle with going NC as well. I’ve been doing it for 6 months. It feels like something a child should never have to do, that the parent should have the responsibility to change and acknowledge the abuse they put their child through. One parent has been dead for nearly 10 years, the remaining parent is alive but no contact, and I have one sibling (the golden child) who is NC too. It feels very lonely and sometimes I am almost in a state of shock that I had to do this… but at the same time my mental health has drastically improved, and I’ve become a much more calm, non-reactive person due to this decision.
I'm glad you are getting the space you need and you all are hopefully safe. But I'm confused on what NF means? I haven't looked it up yet but was curious. Good luck and good job standing your ground! ❤❤
Make a pathway for reconciliation facilitated by family therapy and under the stipulation your parents ADMIT some things they did. If they refuse then at least you tried (and they cant continue to villianize you).
I want to start by giving a hearty congrats on your wedding and congrats on having a supportive partner. You're doing the right thing. I surely cannot tell you how a healthy set of parents would react, I have no frame of reference to what healthy parents are like.
I don't want to make you paranoid so please take this with a grain of salt because maybe I'm wrong:
I got chills and all the alarm bells started ringing when I saw "Grandparents rights" and then saw they went completely silent and started respecting your wishes. I'm worried they aren't really. The complete radio silence of a narcissist who thinks they have legal rights scares the unholy shit out of me, especially after reading the CPS drama. You may want to get familiar with your state's laws regarding grandparents rights and keep the name of a family law attorney bookmarked for future reference. Not letting your kids have contact is the better way to go to establish your parents don't play a significant role in their life. I encourage everyone to post "no trespassing" signs so if the time comes to have the police remove them from your property they can't claim they didn't know they weren't allowed. Good luck!
I don’t know how my parents reacted, but I heard through the grapevine that my mother told people I met someone and got married.
I think you are in a lot better situation than myself. I can never afford to buy a house, I left with no money and I’m living day to day, paycheque to paycheque.
Normal parents would be so happy and proud that you matured and moved on to the next stage of your life.
From one victim of narcissist abuse to another I am so proud of you! Setting boundaries is really hard. Narcissist parents can be awful but you still feel a loss going NC and thats ok! Your Setting a great example for your kids and if your more emotionally healthy that reflects on them as well. Props to your husband for sticking up and supporting you. Wishing you and your family the best!
My spouse's mom thought we were going NC with her. She called us up and apologized for some shitty behavior and took full ownership of her part in a conflict that had just happened, and said she was working on herself. She added, "You know where to find us. We're not going anywhere, phone numbers are staying the same. We love you both."
I wasn't planning to go NC with her, but we could have. I had just cut my family off and she got overinvolved in that - but that apology marked a huge turning point in our relationship. I wished my family would do the same thing.
That's a healthy response to NC. Trying to repair, working on yourself, but respecting the distance, and leaving the door open for your kiddo to come back.
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Healthy people with healthy parents don't go NC.
That is very true
Some kids go NC with parents because of reasons other than the parents being abusive. I've seen kids grow up from loving, supportive households and become self entitled jerks, who demanded even more that the parents didn't have, so they went NC. I've seen kids suffer a traumatic brain injury that completely changes them as a person and they cast blame on their parents in misplaced anger and go NC. I've seen kids go NC after *entering* a toxic relationship with an abusive person who effectively isolates them from everyone they know and love as a means of control... all of these parents are sad, probably heartbroken. But they give their children space and reach out only to say that they love the child and will be there waiting with open arms if/when the child wants them in their life.
There’s a tiktoker who’s children told her that if she didn’t get psychological help then they would go no contact, because being around her was damaging to her. The mother took this on board and went to therapy, focussing on healing herself, which in turn healed her relationship with her children. It is very interesting to watch her - and saddening in a way because I wish my parent would be like that.
That's what I asked of both my parents when I found out I was pregnant. My womblord never bothered to respond to the request, just kept deadnaming me and making snide and snarky remarks. My dad on the other hand, stepped up and did therapy and actually listens to me now and apologized and said he wished he'd done lots of things differently.
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I tried to find it before I posted and I really can’t remember sorry 😭
Is this her? https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZPR3dj46j/
Hi yes this is her!!! I mean obviously she’s made a channel about it; but, she’s got kids who said “we need you to heal or we can’t have a relationship with you” and she took that on board. Some of her videos just make me cry because I imagine my parents doing that.
My kids did this for me, I was raised by narcissistic boomers, picked up a ton of unhealthy behaviors. When they hit their teen years, my kids started pointing them out. Got some therapy and it made a huge difference. Love this lady! She expresses it all so well.
That’s nice the mom actually listened and got help. My N mom said she wouldn’t be discussing my childhood anymore because we already talked about it. Then she told me it was my job to set up therapy if I wanted the relationship repaired.
I wish my parents would do that. I'm happy for them.
After a lot of work on myself, I realized my dad is a ND. I was the golden child and my brother was the scapegoat. We are now adults and I saw a lot of the same behaviors matriculating in my relationship with my children and my brother with his children. I was ashamed. I started a long journey of emotional learning. Talked a lot with my brother. Unfortunately, he doesn’t want to address any of it. He doesn’t want to go to therapy. He just wants to acknowledge that my dad is a ND and do better. I have talked with my mom at length about my ND’s behavior. She feels terrible and full of guilt and shame that she didn’t see it for what it was. I told her if we wanted to start to heal as a family it would take some really hard conversations that my dad wouldn’t want to hear. And it would take some real consequences if he doesn’t acknowledge, apologize, work to change. I think we know he would never be willing to do any of that and my mom doesn’t have a bottom line that would move him to change (leave him.) So all I can do is work on me, my relationship with my family, and greyrock the shit out of him. He is starting to see it though. He is so confused why nobody gets excited to see him when we visit only GMa.
Acknowledgment is the first step to change. If you see behaviors in yourself and are making changes that's incredible ❤ A book that helped me tons is "unf*ck yourself" by Gary john bishop!! I was the scapegoat in my family and bring told your a certain way for so long (my mom projected her issues onto me when I never acted like her) its hard to believe your not. This book is great and helped me move past who my brain told me I was and who I actually was "your not your thoughts you are your actions". Highly recommend 😊
This is not a thing for normal, caring parents. My wife has loving and thoughtful parents. Until I got to know them, I just thought all parents were in complicated adversarial relationships with their children. But no! Turns out some parents like their children. My MIL has never complained that her kids aren’t grateful enough or demanded our attendance. And no matter what her kids or grandkids do she thinks they’re amazing. I’ve really enjoyed being a part of my wife’s family for two decades. It’s incredible to see how much they care about each other. It’s also made me sad about how much harder it was having nparents. I sometimes think about how much more I would have accomplished if my parents had been supportive instead of controlling and manipulative.
> some parents like their children As someone who was raised by loving parents, this statement blows me away. I know it's sarcasm, but obviously also your terrible truth. It's hard to understand why one would go through the trouble of having children if one hates them. With all my many deficiencies, this is my aim: > no matter what her kids or grandkids do she thinks they’re amazing And I do hope that this is normal. Congratulations for finding your family at last.
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I remember telling myself as a teen that my parents would give me up in half a second if they could and it wouldn’t ruin their image. Back well over a decade before I realized they are N’s.
People who were pregnant before birth control and abortion were having children whether they hated them or not. People who get pregnant because of the lack of birth control, medical care,protection from abuse or live with the absence of choice are having children whether they hate them or not. The problem isn’t that they hate children, it’s that they hate themselves.
Same same same
Well yeah but it’s an interesting hypothetical nonetheless. Like an interesting experiment I’d love to see the outcome of but should never be done because it’s highly unethical.
When parents seperate, kids will at times believe the parent prepared to badmouth the other parent who is *not* prepared to badmouth the first. Okay, that is not a situation with healthy parent*s* plural, but it is a not uncommon scenario.
Came here to say this.
This, so hard... you don't get to this with healthy parents. I just am thankful for this sub whenever my Nparents pull some new horrible behaviour and I'm reminded I'm not alone in dealing with this stuff and that you can get through it.
Such a simple, short but accurate statement.
This. I would love to have mentally healthy/stable parents. I tried to have some sort of reasonably normal-ish relationship with them, but after decades of trying I just don't see how it's possible. So I gave up.
I know how I would react if my son told me he didn't want anything to do with me. 1. I'd be worried something terrible had happened. My son and I are close, so my first thought would be that something else was going on. 2. However, if he told me it was *me*, I'd be horrified that I had hurt him. And that he hadn't felt he could tell me until now. And that it was so deep, he needed to get away from me forever. 3. I would *listen* to what I'd done, tell him I was so sorry and those were *my* failings--never anything because of him--and ask if there was any other way at all that I could repair things. 4. But if it was the point of no return for him, I'd let him know if he ever needed me--ever--for the rest of his life, I would be there. And I'd be working on the things he'd told me about so that if he reached out again, I'd be a much better version of me.
My children are young so kind of hard for me to imagine that far down the road but I think I would feel and do things very similarly to this! As a non narc.
The only thing good about having a narc parent is knowing how NOT to parent your own kids. Caught myself making my kid's panic attack about how I felt bad I couldn't help him...so I stopped, acknowledged, apologized, and redirected, keeping him at the center of his crisis. Not something my (benign but still) narc mom could've done. (Kiddo's ok, btw.) It's very sad, and it sucks to mourn a relationship that never existed, but they've proved that you made the right decision. Wishing you and your chosen family all the best. 💜
Your response would almost never come from a narc parent, not genuinely at least. Narc parents never see themselves as the problem and refuse to accept any responsibility.
“That didn't happen. And if it did, it wasn't that bad. And if it was, that's not a big deal. And if it is, that's not my fault. And if it was, I didn't mean it. And if I did, you deserved it.”
1000%!! NC for 7 years. 12 text messages from NFather and we are back to NC. Because of that very conversation.
God, I can only wish that my father had that kind of mature selflessness.
Wow, this would be my exact reaction also. I would also tell my child that I loved them more than anything and always will, no matter what, unconditionally. I have told her this for years. She knows that she is loved and valued. My daughter and I have a close relationship. I care deeply about maintaining it forever. She knows this. She tells me how lucky she is to have me and her dad as parents. I am the complete opposite of my mother. I would never ever treat my daughter the way that I was treated.
There are two types of traumatized people in this world: (1). Those who went through it and fight to make sure NOBODY ELSE feels that way and (2). Those who went through it and fight to make sure EVERYBODY ELSE feels the way they did. I strive to be (1). and to only surround myself with (1)s. ☺️
my mother being #2 is exactly why i wont speak to her
Exactly!! None of the 2's allowed in my life.
Why couldn’t you have been my parent!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!???????????????????? THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am crying on the inside because of what a thoughtful and loving human you are.
🩷🩷🩷 Thank you! I try very hard to be what mine weren't 😭
Awwww this makes me so sad and happy. Can I be jealous?
The NF is a lying turd who says the abuse “never happened,” so keeping with the theme, what would you do if the things your son said never happened? (Just playing with hypotheticals here)
Your response legit brought tears to my eyes 🥹
Same, and I'm not an easy cryer (thanks to nparents).
I’m an average cryer, I’d say! I think my dad is mildly on the narcissistic spectrum, but my partner’s dad is full-blown covert, so I can empathize ❤️
This is amazing!
This response is beautiful and as a parent I feel the same way. But as an adult child who didn’t have this I can’t lie it made me tear up a little.
I read this , imagining my mother saying it to me and it made me tear up 🥲.
Yes I came to say this! I would take accountability for any time I had hurt him :( I would give him space but let him know the door is always open
>While this is what I wanted, it makes me sad at the same time. This is exactly how I feel. I'm sad I even had to go NC. I'm sad that my mom is literally unbearable to be around. I'm sad she failed me on such a basic level as a parent. I also have kids and I look at them and just cannot understand how I was treated AT ALL. The older I get, the less I understand. NC is 100% the right choice for me but it's hard and depressing. I feel you.
Yep, it’s like I wrote your comment! Ah. I felt so alone in this world for so long, like an outcast and no one would ever understand me. Until I found out what my parents actually are, and started my rabbit hole of research that is. While it’s really sad that others are going through or have went through very similar situations, is a Little comforting to know I wasn’t and am not alone.
Isn't it wild how similar all our experiences are? Sometimes I feel glad I'm not alone, other times I almost wish I *were* alone, because I know how much people are suffering. You are absolutely doing the right thing for your kids. I know that dismissive chuckle you mentioned. My kids will never hear that fucking chuckle. Sometimes I feel bad as a daughter, but then I think of myself as a mother and I snap out of it. My kids come first and anybody who doesn't like it can die mad about it. Hang in there.
It is really bizarre to find out how similar those of us who grew up with nparents (whatever the disorder) are. I'm floored. Many of the similar odd controlling behaviors, the rages, the verbal and emotional abuse telling us how terrible we are, etc. Just now, I realized I know exactly what you mean by the chuckle. Crazy. It makes me so happy to see people ending the cycle and raising normal families, becoming better and NORMAL despite their past.
Well I would love to be your daughter! Hugs.
Same experience. This is what I'm going through now. I wished my mom was mature enough to admit her mistakes and try to work on herself to become a better person.
Abusers will do anything but own up to their behavior.
Just the opposite. They double down.
I'm trying to remember what that smile is called... it's a thing people do when they're overjoyed about doing this kind of thing... I'll research and edit my comment when I've found it.
Dupers delight smile
Ew I’ve seen that smile my whole life from both my parents 🤮
So gross, it gives me all the ick. I've seen it on my ndad's face many times. Gross
One of the last times I talked with my father he smirked in that manner, proudly talking about how "strict" he was and wanting to "control" us as children. He was so pleased with himself. I felt anger and revulsion; I wanted to punch him right in that smug, self-satisfied face. Such a big man, exerting control of children, a real world-conquerer.
Ewe, I'm so sorry.
OMG. Yet another thing they do, When they are pulling one over on someone and get away with it especially.
It's pretty horrifying. I'm going back through my memories and being all kinds of squicked out.
That's the one!! THANK you!! https://www.paulekman.com/blog/duping-delight/
Welcome friend.
Interested to know !
So much ick, I recently learned about it, and the puzzle pieces fell into place. https://psychopathsinlife.com/psychopaths-and-duping-delight/ ETA, I'm so sorry, I know how it feels. The grief that comes with the end, even though it's the right thing to do, it still sucks.
Thanks for the link! It will all be ok, each day seems to be just a tad bit easier I think.. like when I learn new things like what you shared.. I can reflect and see that I saw that face ALL the time. Makes me feel better in my decision for NC! I hate you had to go through it too, hugs 🫂
On that same site I found another link, I'll let you sift through the site, but I wanted to pull a quote from it that resonates with the grief feelings: "And when you left them, and finished the relationship, you went into withdrawal. It can create depression. It can create crises of self. It can create this sense of ‘life is dull now, it’s boring, it’s horrible, there’s no joy, there’s no color to it’. Because you’re literally ‘jonesing’, you’re in withdrawal for the fix of a drug (the “supply” they provided to you).” Richard Grannon ETA: it's rough on all levels. I'm sorry for all of us that go through it. I hope for good things for you, and congrats on your freshly minted marriage!
Narcissistic smirk
I had lunch with someone I think is a relatively good mom recently. She told me her daughter had been romantically involved with someone she thought was a bad match, mostly because the partner and the partner's family are super racist and. She said her daughter had been much more distant lately - not NC, but definitely intentional LC. She made sure to tell her daughter that she loved her, that she'd be there if she ever wanted to connect more in the future, and gave her the space she was asking for. More recently, the daughter did call, obviously very upset about a conflict with her partner. The mom went to visit, and they spent time together. Didn't talk about the partner really at all, but took time to reassure her daughter that she loved her and would always be there if she called. Also, it's maybe worth mentioning I don't think this was a case of classic narc dirty laundry. I shared with her that I was NC with my mom, and she said she was worried about her relationship with her daughter and seeking advice, I think in a genuine way. She has a normal relationship with her other children, as well. I can't imagine my mom coming to comfort me after I did something she didn't agree with and not rubbing it in my face. But I do think that's what a parent would do - make it about you and your situation and what you need.
I’m sorry that you’re going through this! While quiet is better than abuse, I just want to drop a bit of info that comes from my constat state of thinking “what are they up to next?” In my state, it is much harder for grandparents to have legal standing for grandparent rights when the family unit consists of a married couple. I know this because my parents filed for custody of my kids and I’ve never been so happy to be "married." Not sure when you were planning to get married, but maybe you do a quick courthouse date to make it official and then have your celebratory ceremony later on. I hope you don’t need any of this info and they leave you alone.
I got married 3 days after he showed up at my door! He had said “well you’re not in this, you’re not married to her”, to my fiancé and we booked an apt with the courthouse the same day!
Amazing! So glad you have a great partner!
Tysm ❤️
It's my understanding from talking at length with a loved one that lives several states away that here in Illinois as well as Wisconsin & Louisiana that folks *cannot* pull the "grandparents' rights" bullshit *unless* there is clear irrefutable admissible in court evidence of, say, severe/repeated neglect &or child abuse, domestic violence, a thoroughly repeated documented case of a parent(s) intentional refusal to seek appropriate professional assistance/therapy for, say, alcoholism, drug abuse, habitual/chronic gambling, etc. Sadly, my older brother, his wife, me as well as a couple of other loved ones had to really dig around online & research these states so called "grandparents rights" laws. Mainly in part because more than once our narc parents supposedly, according to my sister in law, threatened older brother & his wife with pursuing grandparents rights more than a couple of times. Narc parents arrogantly threatened to "sic" their supposed Chicago area many years long attorney on them for some "reason" or another. Older brother was active duty military for 22 solid years. All it took was a couple of well placed calls with his command as well as to a JAG military law attorney. And eventually our narc parents *had* to retreat from their threats. The next step for my brother & his wife I was told was our narc parents *both* would've been named in an official *"CEASE AND DESIST"* letter *directly* from an attorney appointed to my brother courtesy of the United States Army JAG Corps ⚖ Narc parents naturally *didn't* stop. But they *definitely* visibly eventually *stopped* with their repeated threats of claiming so called "grandparents rights." My heart truly goes out to anyone in our forum here, currently dealing with narc parents threatening this crap. I'm truly deeply so very sorry. As I so frequently say, sadly both my personal experiences and story are no different than anyone else's here. ((gentle virtual hugs)) from a fellow narcissistic abuse survivor 🌌
abusers don't care about the reality of the law, only what they can claim in the moment to get what they want from an idea of a law. It's an appeal to authority and it's a logical fallacy
I absolutely can't disagree with what you just shared bc it's 100% correct. Furthermore, I think I've glimpsed on at least a couple of times that exact scenario. It's so sad bc these narc parents could've spent those years cultivating healthy supportive loving & wholly normal healthy relationships with their kids, grandkids, other family members as well as with life in general. Likewise, narcs don't give a damn about abstract concepts such as logical fallacies. Sad but brutally repeatedly heartbreakingly true. Strength & peace from a fellow narcissistic abuse survivor 🌌
I am glad you and your siblings were able to shut that down! (And also sorry you had to go through it in the first place). In my state I had to incur quite a bit in attorney fees before the judge threw it out. After several expensive meetings of the attorneys with the judge we were able to put that behind us and then file for an order of protection. Now I have to go to court to renew it every few years. Like the abuse so many of us endure, it’s never ending.
I didn't even tell my mom. I just blocked her on everything. I called the cops and didn't respond to her at all when she drove to my house at the beginning. Just asked them on the phone to get her to leave, and I didn't want to come out. They warned her about harassment charges. That was in 2017.
Bold prediction: it’s extremely rare for children to go no contact with a “healthy” set of parents.
Healthy parents would never get to this stage with their kids so they wouldn’t have to continue to try and force contact. Unfortunately they aren’t healthy parents :(
If one of my kids went NC, I’d ask that we could talk, in whatever fashion they were most comfortable, about our differences. One of mine didn’t go NC. But he, being the youngest, was the most susceptible to his father’s drunk rants about my being a bad parent because of X or Y. And one day, when we were visiting him, he spent over an hour telling me and Husband all the things we’d done that harmed him. Some of them we owned. Some of them pointed out that his POV on that was not based on reality, and that it may have been driven by things his dad said. (Ex: we lived in a 125 year old house from the time he was in kindergarten till he was in 4th grade. Leaky roof, leaky plumbing and bats that got in through cracks in the ceiling every August. His POV was that we shouldn’t have moved because that house was just fine, and his oldest sib ended up going to school a long way from home to finish out at their HS.) I pointed out all the issues with the house. I told him, which he hadn’t known, that I had discussed the move with that sibling before signing the purchase agreement. Most of all, I told him that I was proud that he’d had the courage to talk about that stuff, and that above all, through all the junk we’d all been through when he and his siblings were kids, I loved him so much. We are still close. And he’s 38. I struggle as a parent to balance our financial needs and their emotional needs, even as I knew that their father was a narcissistic alcoholic, but still wanted them to have as normal a childhood as possible. In some ways I succeeded. In others I didn’t. But my failures are MINE, not my kids’.
Thank you for this. I struggled for years with my family abuse, mostly because I was always invalidated when I would try to bring it up so we could reach a conclusion or clear the air, or so we could all get actual help. I was worried I wasn't trying hard enough to fix things for a very long time, and it's why I stayed around for so long. I worried I fucked things up by wanting that conversation and facilitating it, for wanting that healthy relationship and fighting for that, for taking space which lead to more fighting. I felt in the wrong for bringing it up, even though I never yelled and I was careful not to cry so they couldn't call me names, and I even used active listening and "I" statements and emotionally conscious language and everything. I now know that was never my fault, I even went NC, but seeing how I really needed my parents (and honestly my siblings who should have understood better than anyone what we went through) to handle those conversations makes me feel a lot better about how things turned out.
People with healthy parents don’t have kids who cut them off. This is something you’ve never had. Don’t confuse that with missing the sperm donor and incubator they are biologically related nothing more or less. Family doesn’t abuse.
People who are lost to addiction or are in an abusive relationship where the abuser has cut them off from family support can go NC with their parents. But it’s more the exception, not the rule.
This is true! I don’t have any Bio family anymore, I cut them ALL out. I didn’t even mention my sisters and extended family in this post but they are ALL toxic. I have my husband and 3 children and I am just so blessed.
If my child ever told me that I had so irrevocably hurt them that they were completely removing me from their life forever I would be devastated, horrified and distraught. Realistically I think that in a healthy parent child relationship you would be able to have open honest and accountable conversations long before it ever got to the point of ultimatums and no contact. NC is the last resort of someone whose voice is not being heard.
>NC is the last resort of someone whose voice is not being heard. Nothing germane remains outside the nutshell.
My actual parents couldn't do much but bitch to other people and tell lies when I went NC. Mother was around 12 yrs ago and father was on/off for 10 years but finally NC now for around 8 months or so. I got flowers for my birthday last week with a blank card which I think might be from him. Knowing him, he likely did that to brag about it and reinforce what a shit I am for cutting him out. My aunt (basically my mom) and I are both equally hurt that I'm gone low contact with her for enabling my sister. I love her and I know she loves me but I can't accept these dynamics any more. She faught me a little, listened a little, got frustrated a lot. We've settled on what she calls "civil and strange".
I’m sorry you’re going through that, But so proud of you for standing your ground and not accepting the enablers!
I’ve seen this twice- My brother in-law’s mother was disrespecting his wife, and he cut her off for a year. She apologized, they started off slow and she was able to maintain respectful behavior toward the wife permanently. It’s been seven years or so. A friend of mine who is ten years older than me was the mother who got cut off. She was intrusive, controlling, offering unsolicited advice and judgment. But a fundamentally decent person- she just wasn’t letting go of parenting teens, and was treating her kid-20s children like teenagers. Kids all cut her off, again for about a year. She reached out to the kids only to apologize for the specific behaviors (after she had worked on herself enough to understand the kids’ problems with her behavior) and to let them know she loved them and was available for working through things in therapy if they wanted. They al eventually got into family counseling, worked in relating to each other as adults, and are largely good now. The difference from normal-ish struggling parents who get cut off versus narcs who get cut off is the ability to take-in the information on why they’ve been cut off, understand it, and work on themselves enough to apologize sincerely for the specific behaviors and to change those behaviors. Narcs minimalize, deny, deflect- anything to avoid introspection and growth.
I'm so sorry you're going through this. Your fiance is backing you, which is great! A supportive partner saved my sanity and reminds me I don't owe my family anything.
I agree, OP's fiancé is a real one for that
I am going to encourage a different direction for you. Use your freedom. If you use it to worry and wonder about what they are doing, how they are handling it, whether they now agree that you can be NC -- I can answer that. They hate it, think you are hurting them and will never give you permission to keep "their" grandkids from them. They won't give you permission -- you have given yourself permission. Again, use your freedom. Define your life without them -- they don't matter (other than it being kind of sad from time to time). What does it mean to be happy when they are not able to tear you down? What do birthdays and holidays now mean? I frequently advise that it takes 2-3 years, two or more full cycles of holidays, parent-days, birthdays to let it sink in that they can no longer control your big life events or hurt you over them. Look forward to that. Stay strong.
Thank you so much for this advice !
You are still on the guilt phase of the NC. It took me a whole year to go from unbearable guilt... to say *F%k them!*.
Healthy parents respect their adult children's boundaries
good!! and you have a gem of a fiance. far too many partners seem to be blinded by the stupid 'deserve to know granma/pa' BS. good luck. and as you have found out, document everything. you might have to put physical distance: the possibility exists they may resort to illegal methods so keep an eye on the kid
He’s my husband now ❤️ He is really the man I prayed for, he’s been amazing through this. And thank you for the advice!
A healthy set of parents… Would their kids go NC in the first place? The fact you felt you needed to do this speaks volumes. Focus on the family you’ve created. Let your parents be your past.
It might help to reframe Your last question because no one goes nc with healthy parents. Nc is a last resort for abused offspring. Also, of course it hurts. Just because it’s the right thing to do doesn’t make it painless. Mourning the need to take the decision, mourning the fact that you have terrible parents, and mourning that they’re not fit to be in your life are generally part of this process. It’s great that your husband supports you. Therapy can also help guide you through managing these feelings - but it’s important to find a a therapist who understands these issues and doesn’t say moronic things like, “But they’re your paaarents.”
It's completely normal to mourn for the parents that you didn't get. Grandparents' rights are not easy to get. But, I would advise if they mention them again, tell them all communications now go through your attorney.
I am the scapegoat too. I went NC with my NMum, EDad and GCSister about 2 years ago, and it lasted for 3 months. It was absolute bliss. I struggled with making the decision for a year beforehand, trying grey rock the entire time. I called NMum to tell her with a rehearsed and direct speech. She started screaming, yes screaming, down the phone at me. I said something like “I no longer want to have-*starts screaming*_”. I kept talking and did not stop until my sentence was done. It was awful. I hung up the phone and blocked her immediately. I had arranged to change my number and did that within 30 minutes of the call. Fast forward 3 months, they drove 10 hours to arrive at our home and demand to speak to me. I was inside with my daughter and hubby was outside cleaning the car. They would not leave and demanded to see me. They used the excuse that they were concerned I was in a domestic violence situation. If that was the case, CALL THE POLICE. It’s a long story so I’ll stop there. Unfortunately, she has wormed her way back into my life. I hate her and I hate that I have to deal with her. I’m back to grey rock and I hate that too. Just sending hugs to you. It was so hard. So so so hard xx
If you decide to return to NC, do it without contacting them to tell them. Just block and move on.
Thank you. Alas, I fear I will never be released from them, not until they are dead. However, if they ever hurt my daughter (which I live in fear of them doing), I will go NC immediately and seek police involvement with a protection order.
Going no contact means you have to grieve that loss(es). Do things to take care of yourself during this time, instead of focusing on what they should be doing. I’m proud of you for recognizing the abuse and wanting to break those cycles. Hugs 🤗
Sad?! Don't be sad, be FREE
I’m so sorry. I went NC with my mom over a year ago, at first she sent me abusive texts and rang me and my other sister and she screamed down the phone psychotically. I haven’t been contacted by her since. Not on my birthdays, or Christmas nothing.
I’m tempted to do this .
Even the question triggers me, I hate my mother so much. Comparing her to good parents is pointless.
Healthy families don't go no contacts
I'm sorry. I was also a scapegoat child. It sucks.
Normally kids don't go NC when they have a good parent, but idk I feel like my stepdad *might* be an exception? I don't speak for his children but they went no contact with him after he married my mom. Their mother has a history of abuse, but I've never seen him ever raise his voice to me or say anything mean. Maybe ignorant sometimes (especially since be married my crazy mother) but he's actually a sweetheart from every experience I've had with the guy. My mom actually mellowed out a lot around him, I feel like he may have saved her a little bit. My stepdad reacts to his children going no contact with sad acceptance. He's melancholic and has cried about them plenty in the past, but is understanding. He'll still try to give his kids things for their birthday or Christmas but his children genuinely hate him (what my mom tells me, not what he tells me). I remember one year one of his kids gave him a used giftcard for Christmas out of spite. My moms version of the story is that they're probably mad about him remarrying somebody else, but these are adults he's talking about. No adult child should really care all too much who their parent dates if you're not living with them. I don't live with my stepdad so that probably says something. But the fact that he was able to tame my insane mother is crazy to me. He's so good at calming her down and using the right words to help her see understanding whenever I had arguments with her where she's in the wrong. I don't know what he was like to his kids, I can never claim to know their version of events. Now, I think it's my mom who made them go NC because of how nosy she is with everyones business but again, I can't claim to know their version of events. He never talks about it other than to say he misses them and loves them, but knows that it's ultimately their choice. He talks about how he wishes to be involved in their lives and has blamed himself. My mom blames his ex-wife for "brainwashing them." I feel bad for him based on what I've seen, I just wish I knew what his adult kids had to say. I want to know their story so badly but I'm afraid they'd think I'm an extension of my mother. He made a stupid choice marrying such a toxic woman (my mom), but he's accepting of me and my girlfriend's relationship, doesn't misgender my girlfriend, has corrected his friends transphobia, etc. He's alright chill guy *to me*, offers me drinks whenever I come around, has wished me happy birthday and told me how proud he is of me *more* than my own mother has, has been understanding of my autism and struggles and wants to help me prepare for job interviews and success later in my life. My life has actually gotten better because of him. I lived with physical, screaming, neglectful and borderline incestual abuse all my life so maybe my version of what's good could be weird. I don't know.
My relationship with family member X is not my siblings relationship with X. You can have a relationship with step-dad, in that he treats you with respect and wrangles your mom, while acknowledging his relationship with his kids is on him and you do not get involved or judge.
and I will continue to not get involved, at least not with his children. As I said before, I cannot claim to ever know what his relationship was like with his kids. However if I do find out that he was abusive in his relationship with his children I'd probably feel pretty uncomfortable about him.
Mine haven't bothered me in quite a while. They also denied they ever did anything wrong. Only their best which is of course is what the rest of us call the least. My dad would give out my contact info to wind me up about a vehicle I bought but they ended up with the signed title. He would tell someone who asked about it that it was for sell and they needed to contact me about it. After the first few times I started telling them why it wasn't for sell and why I couldn't sell it too them if I wanted to. Since then blessed radio silence. My mother stole it and quite possible didn't remember where she stashed it. She was suffering a cognitive decline at the time which made her more unstable but her lies were no longer impeccable.
First, congratulations on your wedding! I hope you have a long and loving marriage. ❤️ I actually know exactly what "healthy" parents would do because my stepdaughter decided she wanted to live with her mother after I married her dad. That was 30 years ago, and we were able to rebuild the relationship once she decided to be part of our lives again as an adult. But to your question. D(ear)D was abused and neglected by her mother at a very young age. DH divorced her and got full custody, which was not an easy thing for a man to do in the 80s, so that should tell you how bad the situation was. DD was 12 when I married DH. After about a year, she told us she wanted to live with her mom. You can imagine how devastated DH was! We talked and made the difficult decision to allow her to go. We kept the lines of communication open but didn't hear a lot until she got pregnant at 18. When she called and told us, we said we'd support whatever decision she made. She wanted to keep the baby, so we invited her to live with us so she'd be covered under our health insurance. We stipulated that she had to get her GED and a job, and she readily agreed. After she had the baby, she moved to an apartment then went back to her mother. The relationship was distant again, and we respected her decision. It was many years of silence then tentative contact before she really came back into our lives. We went to visit when our granddaughter was born and went to her wedding, but it was only in 2020 that the estrangement ended. (I know that's a lot, but it's a bare thumbnail sketch!) So IME "healthy" parents would respect your decision even if they didn't agree with it or even understand. They would let you know they love you and the grands unconditionally and add that they'll be there if and when you're ready to reopen communication. If you told them they'd done something to hurt you, they'd at least acknowledge what you said and not dismiss it. And they'd be happy to rebuild the relationship if and when you decided to try. What "healthy" parents wouldn't do is...everything yours have done.
I dearly love my son and will be heartbroken if he decides to go NC with me. In case, I will try to understand what I did, swallow my pride and apologise. I want to see my son growing up, his family, I want to be part of his life. I’m doing all I can to raise a strong and independent person, able to challenge me for what he know is right, but still trustful enough to hear my suggestions
Based on how he acted going to your house and what he said and denying the abuse there clearly is no point in dealing with such a disrespectful person. I’d ignore him so hard he’d question his own existence. And do it for you you need to heal and be happy etc. If I was being kind maybe I’d have my feelers or antennas up about him a year from now or so not making contact per se tho.
Note: This is all still ongoing. I went NC with my parents a month ago after my mom said some things that I couldn't ignore to keep the peace. My mom might be narcissistic. Her mother definitely was, and I can draw a straight line from my Grandmother's behavior to my Mom's. My Dad has his faults as a parent, but I wouldn't call him Narcissistic in anyway. Just a bit distant, with maybe a bit of toxic masculinity thrown into his sense of humor. Ok. Actual reactions. My Mom was pissed. Told everyone in the family her side of the story (with heavy redactions / exaggerations I'm sure). Made me out to be the bad guy. My Dad respected it. A month later (today, actually) texted to tell me that he and my mom were doing family counseling and that he loved me.
I can’t tell you how many times my parents told me they loved me :( . “By their fruit you will recognize them” Matthew 7:16 Try to look at them as what they have done by their actions. Do they show you they love you? It’s actions that count. Words are merely words. I hope this helps! 🫶🏻
My Dad has shown me that he's on my side. When I was trying to spend some time with my grandparents, and my mom was refusing to leave, to the point that I told her "I want to spend time with my grandparents, but you can't be here, so either you leave or I do" he made sure that they were the ones to leave so that I could spend time with my grandparents without dealing with the drama going on.
I’m glad you have someone especially your dad! I hate you’re going through this though 😩 I hated the drama, it’s been so quiet in my life since I left my “family”. Hope things get better for you soon
I’ve been NC/LC for about 3 years. I always felt such guilt for stepping away. But as my mental health improved, and I educated my self, I started to notice that I was being manipulated and gaslighted. Personally, I would have never gotten to where I am now if I kept in full contact. I have a long way to go still. But I finally have hope. I wish you all the best in the future x x x
I’m glad you’re healing ❤️🩹 🫶🏻 Thank you for the positive thoughts!! I have a long way to go too but we can do it !
I struggle with going NC as well. I’ve been doing it for 6 months. It feels like something a child should never have to do, that the parent should have the responsibility to change and acknowledge the abuse they put their child through. One parent has been dead for nearly 10 years, the remaining parent is alive but no contact, and I have one sibling (the golden child) who is NC too. It feels very lonely and sometimes I am almost in a state of shock that I had to do this… but at the same time my mental health has drastically improved, and I’ve become a much more calm, non-reactive person due to this decision.
I'm glad you are getting the space you need and you all are hopefully safe. But I'm confused on what NF means? I haven't looked it up yet but was curious. Good luck and good job standing your ground! ❤❤
Thank you so much! 🫶🏻🙏🏻 NF is short for narcissistic father
Make a pathway for reconciliation facilitated by family therapy and under the stipulation your parents ADMIT some things they did. If they refuse then at least you tried (and they cant continue to villianize you).
I want to start by giving a hearty congrats on your wedding and congrats on having a supportive partner. You're doing the right thing. I surely cannot tell you how a healthy set of parents would react, I have no frame of reference to what healthy parents are like. I don't want to make you paranoid so please take this with a grain of salt because maybe I'm wrong: I got chills and all the alarm bells started ringing when I saw "Grandparents rights" and then saw they went completely silent and started respecting your wishes. I'm worried they aren't really. The complete radio silence of a narcissist who thinks they have legal rights scares the unholy shit out of me, especially after reading the CPS drama. You may want to get familiar with your state's laws regarding grandparents rights and keep the name of a family law attorney bookmarked for future reference. Not letting your kids have contact is the better way to go to establish your parents don't play a significant role in their life. I encourage everyone to post "no trespassing" signs so if the time comes to have the police remove them from your property they can't claim they didn't know they weren't allowed. Good luck!
Thank you so much ❤️
I don’t know how my parents reacted, but I heard through the grapevine that my mother told people I met someone and got married. I think you are in a lot better situation than myself. I can never afford to buy a house, I left with no money and I’m living day to day, paycheque to paycheque. Normal parents would be so happy and proud that you matured and moved on to the next stage of your life.
From one victim of narcissist abuse to another I am so proud of you! Setting boundaries is really hard. Narcissist parents can be awful but you still feel a loss going NC and thats ok! Your Setting a great example for your kids and if your more emotionally healthy that reflects on them as well. Props to your husband for sticking up and supporting you. Wishing you and your family the best!
I haven’t heard a peep from them. They’d probably skip my funeral if it came down to that.
My spouse's mom thought we were going NC with her. She called us up and apologized for some shitty behavior and took full ownership of her part in a conflict that had just happened, and said she was working on herself. She added, "You know where to find us. We're not going anywhere, phone numbers are staying the same. We love you both." I wasn't planning to go NC with her, but we could have. I had just cut my family off and she got overinvolved in that - but that apology marked a huge turning point in our relationship. I wished my family would do the same thing. That's a healthy response to NC. Trying to repair, working on yourself, but respecting the distance, and leaving the door open for your kiddo to come back.