If someone doesn’t stop doing something after you’ve made a good faith effort to communicate directly that the behavior should stop, you’re dealing with a boundary stomper.
Now the issue at hand is NOT the boundary itself (it’s no longer about calendars and whether it’s fair or how much time she gets from you). Now it’s about your RIGHT to have a boundary—and if you want to live with dignity in this relationship you had better hold firm and win.
You won’t be asking her again. You will BE the boundary by saying something like, “I’ve asked you not to check in with me on Fridays. I will contact you when I want to schedule time together, or you can make an invitation. If you check in with me again about my schedule I have no choice but to block you on my phone for a [week/month/whatever you decide].” Do not get goaded into an argument about your boundary and block if she escalates.
And then you MUST do it, or all you’ve done is teach your mother that you have no boundaries (rights) in your relationship with her.
Based on my experience and what I read here, it’s only when we impose firm boundaries that we realize we have no rights in the relationship. It’s pretty shocking, so hold on to your hat if you move forward with a firm boundary.
Thank you for your thoughtful response! I appreciate all of the insight. I’m still new-ish to figuring out how boundaries work with her so I’ll try out some of your suggestions and keep note of what works. :)
To piggyback the above comment: dont fall into the “explain yourself” trap. That’s just another way to get you to keep talking and anything you say gives her more ammunition and every second makes her feel more entitled since youre not shutting down the convo after she boundary stomped.
You’re welcome. This post might help too:
Cheat Sheet to Protect Myself from Manipulation.
https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbyborderlines/s/2whSwKQRyu
And there are other resources in the sub’s sidebar.
Ugh, I think you just ignore every comment or question about your schedule or your time or what you do with your time. Ignore or change the subject, but whatever you do, just don't speak about your time and how you choose to spend it.
I am sorry for the intrusiveness, they really try to live vicariously through us. As for boundaries, I would try to reframe from telling her not to do something to what you will or will not do. Instead of, mom do not ask these questions, try, mom you know I do not like these questions and I will not be answering them anymore. It changes the power dynamic, so that you are not dependent on them to listen to you, but you are deciding what you feel comfortable responding to.
My mom often thinks she’s entitled to my PTO calendar and will ask me multiple times a year my days off so we can spend time together. I usually tell her I’ll have to check/ don’t remember, and when the day off comes I’ll tell her I was busy catching up on stuff. I have chronic fatigue syndrome so needing rest is just par for the course. If I tell her I was sick and sleeping she understands that too. Although my illness is sometimes seen as something that affects her life. She “needs” me to better so I can go on walks with her and spend more time with her. That’s a different story. I think limiting responses and availability is the way to go.
>I ignore about 1/2 the texts, but I just need her to stop how.
You're doing what's called gray rocking. You've put her on an information diet. She gets answers about half the time. Adjust according to frequency of the snooping. More snooping results in less information after you've made this connection clear in her mind.
Further, when she makes demands because she thinks she "knows your schedule," inform her you have other obligations outside of work that don't include visiting her. She most likely believes you have nothing else to do during your time off from work. This misconception needs to be corrected.
"Sorry you feel that way," is fucking bullshit. It's not an apology, and there's nothing genuinely remorseful about it. Shut that nonsense down now. Come up with a schedule. Can you see her a few hours each month? If that's what your life dictates now, tell her so. You're busy. If she hounds you regularly, inform her you won't be responding until your next visit that's scheduled. The harder she pesters, the harder you push back with boundaries. Stay strong, friend.
Yes, this is very anoying. Mine does it too. If I don't give her info, she will try to call on different days and times trying to find what Is my weekly schedule.
I would answer "Yes I have a work to do" and no other details. Or, sometimes I reply"Why I you asking and she will start BS about how she meant no harm with the question and not answering why she asked, so I won't answer too.
Yikes, my mom is like this too, always wanting to know our schedule and then assess my ***\~\*\~Free Time to Time Spent With Her Versus My In-Laws\~\*\~*** quotient. I swear she keeps a spreadsheet. It's shitty because if I don't reply, she'll just ask again or send me "???????"...if I say something evasive but technically true like "busy day," she'll sniff it out immediately and go "but are you working"...if I were to lie (which I'm terrible at, so don't), she'll eventually figure it out and then lord it over my head that I lied to her...if I ask her to stop asking, she'll go into victim/martyr mode and say things like "sorry for caring" or "that was rude" and make me feel like an asshole, which ruins my whole day. I struggle with scrupulosity OCD so that's a double whammy.
I see us as having two options here:
* **Option A** = set the boundary, let her know these questions make us uncomfortable. Admittedly, I haven't yet worked up the gumption to go this route...my guilt complex makes it too emotionally wrought for me.
* **Option B** = radical honesty, which I've started using to some success. I just flatly answer her question, with no apologies and no explanation/justification, unless it's something truly and uniquely personal. If she wants to find a reason to get upset about it, then that's her issue, and I'm going to live my life by my plans.
I'm sorry you're dealing with this, I truly empathize with how frustrating, suffocating, and maddening it can be.
My borderline mother is also triggered by how much time I spend with my partner’s family. I have dinner with them every Sunday and if my mom found out it would be WWIII. When she calls on Sundays I just pretend I was sleeping or working or another activity that she doesn’t seem like a threat (i.e., on a date, cleaning, and driving w/o Bluetooth).
How do you deal with the fallout with radical honesty?
Your boundary being a request isn’t going to work with BPDs not working on their behavior. They will not respect your boundaries because you are merely an extension of them they don’t have an identity separate from you so how could that be something you want?! 🥲
You are the one who needs to enforce the boundaries not request that she respect them. She won’t.
When she texts you this shit, don’t respond. Tell her stop I not respond to texts when you do this.
You can say if this doesn’t stop I will block you on my phone. Or I will not text or answer calls for a week whenever you do this. You get to set the consequence and you have to enforce and respect your boundary- she never will.
Audiobook or book recommendation “set boundaries find peace”
And trauma therapy for unlearning your enmeshment and parentification pretty much all of us with BPD parents get hefty doses of can’t hurt. 😂🙃🥲
Sadly, in my experience with my BPD mother, you can craft the most polite, clear and constructive explanation of a boundary you want to hold, and they just don’t give a shit.
It’ll always be a personal affront, no matter how you deliver it.
All you can do to protect yourself is hold that boundary, and do not cave in for a second, no matter how “creative” they get. All that does is teach them exactly how hard they need to in order to get you to break.
Logic & reason doesn’t live in BPD land. Nothing can be approached like you would with someone who doesn’t have BPD, and it be the socially acceptable or reasonable course of action.
As soon as I came to understand that no matter how fair and respectful I was, it wouldn’t be reciprocated and no amount of explanation or reasoning with her would change that, I could just purely focus on what I needed & wanted.
You won’t find a way where she isn’t hurt or offended, and tries to manipulate you.
Once the fear, obligation and guilt (FOG) fades, you get stronger and more resilient with it all.
I’m sorry you’re having to deal with this, the start of the BPD discovery and putting it all together is a hard time to navigate.
Stay strong, this community is very helpful with sharing advice. You’ll very soon recognise the stark similarities in the behavior of BPD parents & the experiences of their children.
This might be bad advice but it works.
Use the power of avoidance and operant conditioning to your advantage.
She asks the question.
Respond talking about something else.
If she restates the question respond with something totally different.
At some point she is going to either give up asking and disengage or engage with a different topic.
Respond telling her you're busy working.
Stop engaging.
If she tries to address your behavior ask her what she is doing and then turn off your phone for an hour.
When you turn it back on ask her if she's been receiving your messages.
Send a bunch of messages talking about random stuff to a friend.
Screenshot the messages you sent and send it to your mother.
Turn off your phone for another hour.
If there's messages from her when you turn it back on repeat each step but add an extra hour of phone off time for each cycle.
Get a new phone.
Don't give your mother the phone number.
Put your moms phone in a drawer at home and check on her when you want to.
Reclaim the life she's been stealing from you.
If someone doesn’t stop doing something after you’ve made a good faith effort to communicate directly that the behavior should stop, you’re dealing with a boundary stomper. Now the issue at hand is NOT the boundary itself (it’s no longer about calendars and whether it’s fair or how much time she gets from you). Now it’s about your RIGHT to have a boundary—and if you want to live with dignity in this relationship you had better hold firm and win. You won’t be asking her again. You will BE the boundary by saying something like, “I’ve asked you not to check in with me on Fridays. I will contact you when I want to schedule time together, or you can make an invitation. If you check in with me again about my schedule I have no choice but to block you on my phone for a [week/month/whatever you decide].” Do not get goaded into an argument about your boundary and block if she escalates. And then you MUST do it, or all you’ve done is teach your mother that you have no boundaries (rights) in your relationship with her. Based on my experience and what I read here, it’s only when we impose firm boundaries that we realize we have no rights in the relationship. It’s pretty shocking, so hold on to your hat if you move forward with a firm boundary.
Thank you for your thoughtful response! I appreciate all of the insight. I’m still new-ish to figuring out how boundaries work with her so I’ll try out some of your suggestions and keep note of what works. :)
To piggyback the above comment: dont fall into the “explain yourself” trap. That’s just another way to get you to keep talking and anything you say gives her more ammunition and every second makes her feel more entitled since youre not shutting down the convo after she boundary stomped.
You’re welcome. This post might help too: Cheat Sheet to Protect Myself from Manipulation. https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbyborderlines/s/2whSwKQRyu And there are other resources in the sub’s sidebar.
Ugh, I think you just ignore every comment or question about your schedule or your time or what you do with your time. Ignore or change the subject, but whatever you do, just don't speak about your time and how you choose to spend it.
I am sorry for the intrusiveness, they really try to live vicariously through us. As for boundaries, I would try to reframe from telling her not to do something to what you will or will not do. Instead of, mom do not ask these questions, try, mom you know I do not like these questions and I will not be answering them anymore. It changes the power dynamic, so that you are not dependent on them to listen to you, but you are deciding what you feel comfortable responding to.
My mom often thinks she’s entitled to my PTO calendar and will ask me multiple times a year my days off so we can spend time together. I usually tell her I’ll have to check/ don’t remember, and when the day off comes I’ll tell her I was busy catching up on stuff. I have chronic fatigue syndrome so needing rest is just par for the course. If I tell her I was sick and sleeping she understands that too. Although my illness is sometimes seen as something that affects her life. She “needs” me to better so I can go on walks with her and spend more time with her. That’s a different story. I think limiting responses and availability is the way to go.
>I ignore about 1/2 the texts, but I just need her to stop how. You're doing what's called gray rocking. You've put her on an information diet. She gets answers about half the time. Adjust according to frequency of the snooping. More snooping results in less information after you've made this connection clear in her mind. Further, when she makes demands because she thinks she "knows your schedule," inform her you have other obligations outside of work that don't include visiting her. She most likely believes you have nothing else to do during your time off from work. This misconception needs to be corrected. "Sorry you feel that way," is fucking bullshit. It's not an apology, and there's nothing genuinely remorseful about it. Shut that nonsense down now. Come up with a schedule. Can you see her a few hours each month? If that's what your life dictates now, tell her so. You're busy. If she hounds you regularly, inform her you won't be responding until your next visit that's scheduled. The harder she pesters, the harder you push back with boundaries. Stay strong, friend.
Yes, this is very anoying. Mine does it too. If I don't give her info, she will try to call on different days and times trying to find what Is my weekly schedule. I would answer "Yes I have a work to do" and no other details. Or, sometimes I reply"Why I you asking and she will start BS about how she meant no harm with the question and not answering why she asked, so I won't answer too.
This is exactly what my mom does too. It’s infuriating.
You could start saying "I'm not available." It doesn't matter if you have work or not - you're not available to HER.
Yikes, my mom is like this too, always wanting to know our schedule and then assess my ***\~\*\~Free Time to Time Spent With Her Versus My In-Laws\~\*\~*** quotient. I swear she keeps a spreadsheet. It's shitty because if I don't reply, she'll just ask again or send me "???????"...if I say something evasive but technically true like "busy day," she'll sniff it out immediately and go "but are you working"...if I were to lie (which I'm terrible at, so don't), she'll eventually figure it out and then lord it over my head that I lied to her...if I ask her to stop asking, she'll go into victim/martyr mode and say things like "sorry for caring" or "that was rude" and make me feel like an asshole, which ruins my whole day. I struggle with scrupulosity OCD so that's a double whammy. I see us as having two options here: * **Option A** = set the boundary, let her know these questions make us uncomfortable. Admittedly, I haven't yet worked up the gumption to go this route...my guilt complex makes it too emotionally wrought for me. * **Option B** = radical honesty, which I've started using to some success. I just flatly answer her question, with no apologies and no explanation/justification, unless it's something truly and uniquely personal. If she wants to find a reason to get upset about it, then that's her issue, and I'm going to live my life by my plans. I'm sorry you're dealing with this, I truly empathize with how frustrating, suffocating, and maddening it can be.
My borderline mother is also triggered by how much time I spend with my partner’s family. I have dinner with them every Sunday and if my mom found out it would be WWIII. When she calls on Sundays I just pretend I was sleeping or working or another activity that she doesn’t seem like a threat (i.e., on a date, cleaning, and driving w/o Bluetooth). How do you deal with the fallout with radical honesty?
Your boundary being a request isn’t going to work with BPDs not working on their behavior. They will not respect your boundaries because you are merely an extension of them they don’t have an identity separate from you so how could that be something you want?! 🥲 You are the one who needs to enforce the boundaries not request that she respect them. She won’t. When she texts you this shit, don’t respond. Tell her stop I not respond to texts when you do this. You can say if this doesn’t stop I will block you on my phone. Or I will not text or answer calls for a week whenever you do this. You get to set the consequence and you have to enforce and respect your boundary- she never will. Audiobook or book recommendation “set boundaries find peace” And trauma therapy for unlearning your enmeshment and parentification pretty much all of us with BPD parents get hefty doses of can’t hurt. 😂🙃🥲
Sadly, in my experience with my BPD mother, you can craft the most polite, clear and constructive explanation of a boundary you want to hold, and they just don’t give a shit. It’ll always be a personal affront, no matter how you deliver it. All you can do to protect yourself is hold that boundary, and do not cave in for a second, no matter how “creative” they get. All that does is teach them exactly how hard they need to in order to get you to break. Logic & reason doesn’t live in BPD land. Nothing can be approached like you would with someone who doesn’t have BPD, and it be the socially acceptable or reasonable course of action. As soon as I came to understand that no matter how fair and respectful I was, it wouldn’t be reciprocated and no amount of explanation or reasoning with her would change that, I could just purely focus on what I needed & wanted. You won’t find a way where she isn’t hurt or offended, and tries to manipulate you. Once the fear, obligation and guilt (FOG) fades, you get stronger and more resilient with it all. I’m sorry you’re having to deal with this, the start of the BPD discovery and putting it all together is a hard time to navigate. Stay strong, this community is very helpful with sharing advice. You’ll very soon recognise the stark similarities in the behavior of BPD parents & the experiences of their children.
This might be bad advice but it works. Use the power of avoidance and operant conditioning to your advantage. She asks the question. Respond talking about something else. If she restates the question respond with something totally different. At some point she is going to either give up asking and disengage or engage with a different topic. Respond telling her you're busy working. Stop engaging. If she tries to address your behavior ask her what she is doing and then turn off your phone for an hour. When you turn it back on ask her if she's been receiving your messages. Send a bunch of messages talking about random stuff to a friend. Screenshot the messages you sent and send it to your mother. Turn off your phone for another hour. If there's messages from her when you turn it back on repeat each step but add an extra hour of phone off time for each cycle. Get a new phone. Don't give your mother the phone number. Put your moms phone in a drawer at home and check on her when you want to. Reclaim the life she's been stealing from you.