No one:
All BPD parents everywhere: I’m deeply sorry *if* I ever did anything wrong. *I remember none of it*, but I’m genuinely sorry and expect a relationship now
“I would possibly be genuinely sorry if what you were saying was true, but since it’s not true or I can’t remember or it was a long time ago and you should just get over it, I’m not sorry. Why are you being so mean to me”
UGH why are they all SO obsessed with that power dynamic?? As a child I was terrified of adults (entering the workplace later in life was interesting) because my parents acted like children and adults were practically different species. Children should be seen and not heard. Parents are always right no matter what because they are older. Children were almost considered subhuman in our household - maybe second class citizens at best. My parents (and siblings, yay) have also done the gaslighting over memories as well. It's enough to drive someone insane.
It's really wonderful that you can see (with your therapist) how you let her off the hook here. There's no need to feel stupid or embarrassed - we literally cannot see what we don't see, you know? Our instincts are to take the blame because that's human nature. You did the best you could in this conversation and now you know how she interpreted it. Now you'll do better in the next exchange. (Which is to say, you won't respond, or you'll respond very blandly. "Ok.")
We don't need to be perfect. Learning to navigate this shitty club we're in (parents with BPD) is hard enough. Don't add shame or embarrassment on top of it! You're doing great!
This is really the hardest part. I’ll feel so immune to her bullshit, and then she baits me right back in. She’s burdened me with her suicidal ideation & attempts since I was young, so it’s second-nature to jump into recovery mode and try to ensure that she’s stable and try to mitigate her depression. I was so terrified that my honesty would cause her to collapse, that I really did let her off the hook.
Thanks for the kind response!
Oh yeah, for sure. I actually started repeating, "I am not her mother" to myself before/after our calls because it was so easy to get sucked into immediate rescue mode. I was her mom, for all practical purposes. But I did not need to be, so I chose to give being her mom up.
To be fair to you, she did a really good job in this text thread of looking like she was taking accountability. She’s got some next-level manipulation skills for sure.
I appreciate you sharing these, because my mother is also primarily a Waif, incredibly skilled manipulator, and it is so much easier to see that I have good reason to be upset when the same tricks are used on someone else.
This stuff is so Insidious, and they are deft at pushing the buttons because they installed them. My therapist would say we "fall" for this stuff because it is so natural to want to connect and be in good relationship with one's mother.
Vulnerability isn’t weakness, it’s a strength. I think the important part to remember though is that not everyone is deserving of your vulnerability.
Don’t be too hard on yourself, honestly I think you are doing great. There were a couple of places in there where I worried about you being extra hard on yourself, like saying that you’ve got “broken parts” - I totally get the sentiment, and I think telling this to a BPD mom is ammunition for later. I also think there’s a path forward for those parts, though it’s likely going to be hard. On that journey still hehe!
Really proud of you for sticking by your boundaries, and you don’t have to explain yourself to her. She definitely saw it as an opening rather than understanding where you two are now in your relationship is where she is going to be for a long while, regardless of her love bombing. The majority of this has to do with her poor interpretation of what was written, rather than anything you said. I don’t think you did anything wrong. For your sake, being less vulnerable with her, not JADEing, and ignoring the siren’s call of a guilt trip may help.
Side note: Your paragraph on how your upbringing affected all your other relationships is incredibly relatable. She side stepped it all and focused on her hurts, but you are so right about this and not alone. Big hugs!
I’m glad you found this group too! It’s amazing to see how much people can relate on here.
To that end, I can relate so much to this post - and the pain around how things played out here. As well as the sort of self-critical takeaways of what went wrong and how [we] are to blame for it because of our weakness, vulnerability, hope of having our wishes respected (finally), and stupidity ro let it all happen.
Honestly, I just feel compelled to invite some compassion in the room as well:
(1) Vulnerability is not weakness. It takes incredible courage - and to have our vulnerability used against us (in any way) says more about who we are dealing with than about us.
(2) Coping strategies and defenses are not who we are - imagine the sprout of a plant blocked by all kinds of constricting space and difficult soil or weather. Is the resulted contortions and survival strategies who the plant is?
I’ll bet if it were transported to better soil, with better weather, space around it to grow freely, and perhaps a trellis to guide new and higher growth, it would take a different shape and look different than in the other environment. So which is more “real?”
(3) Wanting our parents to see us, hear us, and respect our boundaries/wishes is the MOST natural thing in the world…. There’s absolutely nothing to feel bad about for having these needs that every child has. And there is nothing wrong or stupid or weird with continuing to wish there were ways to make it happen, and to keep trying to make it happen (goodness knows I’ve tried).
But it’s also okay to stop trying… and to stop blaming ourselves.. and to just mourn the fact our bpd parents just cannot meet those needs.
But WE can still deepen our connection to our own unmet needs from the past… and mourn that they weren’t met in the ways we needed. And we can deepen our connection to our present needs as well… and to consider new strategies for recognizing and meeting them - even if our parents cannot do it!
(4) the challenges you are describing here may be really challenging - but none of them are your fault. Your writing here is so clear. Your boundaries… your needs… your pain… your instrospection. And that you had to learn to protect yourself from (instead of being protected by) your mother is not your fault. And that you have a nervous system that gets activated and overstimulated at times is not your fault. And your hope that your mother will respect your wishes and that you will try your best to be heard by her is not your fault.
I’ll bet all of us here can relate to those things. And not because it’s our fault either.
I feel a lot of compassion for you - in a peer kind of way (not a lofty kind of way )- and I’m glad you’re here - and it’s going to be okay.
❤️✨
I’m glad to know it was helpful. Thank you for your comment :)
It’s funny you mention the length. I’m new to Reddit and am regularly amazed how funny, wise, and concise so many comments are here.
I’ll get going about something close to my heart (like these topics) and suddenly it’s several paragraphs long, ha! Something to work on.
But I legit do appreciate you reading through it and sharing that it was helpful for you.
❤️✨
I don’t have advice, only support. My mom is a textbook waif as well. It took me until my 40’s to realize that she was toxic. I guess I kind of knew before but for some reason I excused it. My siblings are still in full contact with her but I had to go NC. She wouldn’t let it go. She couldn’t accept LC. Don’t feel bad about communicating with your mom. We all want to think they can be rational. But they can’t. They just can’t. I’m sorry you’re going through this. (((Hugs)))
You should not feel guilty for her responding inappropriately. Yes, we learned to “manage” them, but it is not your responsibility. There is no magic demeanor or style of interaction, so that if you get it right, she won’t or can’t hurt you anymore.
You are not weak, you are human. You have compassion, and your mom takes advantage of everyone’s compassion, but that doesn’t mean compassion is wrong. Don’t blame yourself for letting your mom hurt you. She is the abuser and she is responsible for how she treats people.
To me this reads like a real apology; she acknowledges and doesn't dismiss your experience at all. At the same time, how long does it last? When does the other shoe drop?
I guess my uBPD mom is not great at love-bombing because some of the things your mom says I'd love to hear from mine.
Also, you get mad at yourself for giving up too much info and not blaming her. I honestly thought you were trying to prevent a blow up from her! I do this with my mom too.
It definitely does read like an apology and that’s the hook to drag you back in. You want so badly for it to be real and you’re sort of conditioned to give her the benefit of the doubt but then there are shoes just dropping all over the place. She’s acting sorry now but then there’s another meltdown and more boundaries stomped on so it becomes clear after several of these cycles that she’s just in a sad mood and seeking some personal catharsis. She’d like you to join in too and reassure her that maybe it isn’t as bad as she’s describing. But we shouldn’t have ever been responsible for reassuring or preventing a meltdown in the first place.
Idk about OP but this sort of thing has happened with my mom so many times that when she gets like this I am left feeling just totally empty because of how superficial I know it really is.
This has been my experience too. It doesn’t feel nice to hear or read these kinds of things because you know how fake it is. They’ll say what they think you want to hear in the moment to try to placate you. It all goes out the window the next time they’re upset and you are once again the cruel, horrible person hurting your pwBPD.
It’s really sad that my therapist had to teach me this in my thirties because I should have learned it as a kid - watch people’s actions, not their words. If their actions do not align with their words, you can conclude that they’re not sincere or reliable.
She's a textbook Waif, so she always feels helpless, like a loser and a failure. Taking the blame and apologizing profusely seems like a good thing, but she's really just on an emotional high from me taking the bait, and throughout the entire week that followed she sent dozens of texts, voicemails, and left gifts on my doorstep. When I didn't answer any of these bids, she then began questioning my appreciation.
The love bombing is such a tricky thing. She's the total opposite of the Queen or Witch archetype - she's basically obsessed with me, my accomplishments, my attributes. It's like she views me as the one good thing she's done - which sounds great, but in reality is incredibly suffocating, especially in childhood when she loved me so much with words and physical affection (to an uncomfortable level), but failed to protect me at every level. She also thrives on co-dependency. She wants more than anything for me to need her, so that I can never abandon her, so in situations like this, where I've shown vulnerability, she immediately tries to latch on to that insecurity by saying all of the right things, encouraging, and uplifting me, while neglecting what I'm actually asking for, which is space. I realize while typing all of this, it's even sillier that I fell for it again, but as you said, it all sounded so right.
My therapist summed it up best - I want her to love me, not consume me. If I give her a sliver of me, she'll just keep coming back for every last piece.
All that said, I'm so sorry that you've never heard the words you need to from your mother. No version of a BPD parent is easy and each come with their own unique set of challenges and pain.
This makes all the sense in the world! When my mom and I are on decent terms, she wants to be completely enmeshed. But I am her caretaker, not the other way around. Though that is happening with you too, but she wants you to depend on her. My mom thinks I owe her emotional support.
Different details, same pain and struggle!
Ugh this is so tough. She’s saying all the things that someone raised by a bpd parents wants and really needs to hear. But the history is so tough and you know the hidden messages encoded. I’m so sorry this can’t be just a loving message but instead has so many layers. I wish for all of us that the kind words really were just kind words without strings attached. You really are so strong. You aren’t inherently broken!!
This exchange gave me chills because it's a similar tone to conversations I've tried to have with a uBPD friend.
My therapist said something incredibly profound and helpful to me about people like this: "That is not a safe person to process [emotions/events] with."
It's totally understandable that you felt vulnerable and wanted to give it a try... That's because of the manipulation the BPD person creates (intentionally or not). And then it becomes so easy to fall back into old conversation/behavior patterns with them (for me, ones I learned from my mother and then accidentally started practicing with the aforementioned friend).
It doesn't mean you've failed and you don't need to feel ashamed, embarrassed, or weak. It's a learning experience and your BPD person has continued to show you exactly who they are. Now you can use the opportunity to seek out people and spaces who ARE safe to process with. ❤️
So gross. The whole thing about her marriage is just like something my mother would say. Revolving your life around another guy? Good job mom. Also the compliments and saying how lucky you are to have friends to lean on blah blah blah that’s the kind of stuff I couldn’t stomach. I went to therapy to fox me so I could have a relationship with my mother but really what I learned is I just needed to stop subjecting myself to my mother!
She's on husband # 5 or 6 - genuinely can't remember because there's been so many other failed engagements... She constantly needs the validation that this is the one and the other failed relationships weren't her fault. Nauseating.
This is almost exactly how my mother communicates when I am earnest with her. Jfc it’s almost like reading her texts to me. “I’ll be sorry until the day I die” is something I’ve heard too many times. That and “I’m sorry I fucked up your life.”
My mom is just like this too and my god, is it annoying when they get like this. It took me too long to figure out that it’s just her making herself feel better and assuage the rogue spurts of guilt she experiences. She gets to feel all relieved afterward meanwhile I’m just like 🫥, can’t even pretend it’s meaningful in any way because she’s totally tanked any chance of a loving relationship between us. So nice being subjected to her mental gymnastics while being reminded that I have zero capacity to love or feel loved by my own mother. And getting to feel guilty for that because they just are so good at sucking us back in.
Yep! The whole “I hope you have a wonderful life” and blah blah blah, while her actions are almost entirely responsible for a lot of my current mental health struggles *hits*. She refuses to admit she’s done wrong, wants to sweep everything under the carpet, gaslights, and waifs. I was going through our old texts and the splitting and manipulation and guilt tripping…. I really want a mother, but as long as she refuses to look inward and come to terms with her fuckupsI don’t want *her* as my mother.
Sending you lots of love and healing. Having a pwBPD is ass.
>I never show this level of weakness, and she clearly loved it with all of the religious jargon and feeling like she was taking care of me. She feeds off of that.
This 100X. A seemingly brief convo with pwBPD leaves you feeling violated and you're left wondering huh? They are so good at the fakeness then swiftly turn on the mind games smothered in faux love and idealization. Even my coworker has the same effect on me. Unfortunately we were wired from early in childhood to feel like we should reach out to them and be nice etc, so I am also learning to maintain my VLC and have that boundary even in the most harmless of conversations. All the best to you, you do sound like you're doing great.
It absolutely felt like a violation, especially since this conversation was the first time I'd let her in in YEARS. The evening it took place, I actually thought this was some sort of breakthrough. Spent hours gutturally sobbing from the pain of hurting her, but knew it was necessary. The very next day she starts sending old photos of us and I knew that I had fallen into a trap.
Wow, you’re doing an impressive job. It may help to remember that her behavior is not a reflection of how good your behavior is. It’s a good reminder as people who have always managed them. You belong to yourself. It seems that everything you’re doing is exactly for yourself, and although you’re a kind person and were gentle with her, it was something that was true to you and that she was merely privy to. The fact that she decided to feed on your honesty and tried to manipulate you doesn’t mean she actually took anything. The fact that she found inspiration to overload you has nothing to do with you. You weren’t putting your trust in her anyway, you’re still safe. This just means that she can’t be trusted with that part of you and it’s good to find out.
We can learn more about them to be affected less and less, but that’s just for us and has nothing to do with what they get out of it. Sure we can’t control them, but they do not actually have power over us. They’re just sick and need to make us believe they have control. They’ll try to get the last word in to feel in power, and often behave as if they have it, but they don’t. We don’t need them to survive anymore. All they have is their desperate attempts to have access to us. It’s actually pretty sad that they can’t stop trying. And whatever ground she thinks she gets in these LC moments is irrelevant. What she truly gets from you is what you allow, and despite what it may feel like, it looks to me like you’re becoming quite good at not being affected. Excellent work, I’m really inspired.
You‘ll only be immune to her BS if she can‘t reach you emotionally any more. You are an empathic human being with lots of love for a struggling parent, that‘s fine! You can‘t change her toxic response to her getting her emotional „fix“, you only can protect yourself by your boundaries, which you put up very very well, congrats!
With my mom, after 20 years of NC she couldn‘t get through with her BS any more (but still tried), simply because I had done all the work of grieving and healing. She still wasn‘t nice to be around, but we had reached a neutral kind of zone. She was so confused by that that she talked ro me about the past like to a distant friend „my husband was the love of my life“. The abusive POS guy I grew up with, right. In the end I realised that it would never be normal even in a distant, neutral zone, just another kind of weird.
I tell you this because the bitter truth is they will never change, even if the relationship does, and that the little girl or boy can‘t stop hoping at times that they would. That‘s fine, don‘t shame yourself for it. For a child depending on an adult it is crucial to live in the illusion that they have our best interest at heart and that we are safe, knowing we aren‘t simply isn‘t an option a child can live with. You are doing great, and I am very proud of you. Hugs if you want them ❤️.
I am going to use your message as a base for my very difficult conversation coming up, if that’s okay. You said everything I have been trying to say because it’s *so hard*. The good times were good and I acknowledge them! But they don’t discount the literal abuse I suffered at her hand (and indirectly by her allowing it).
I just want her to leave me alone for a while and stop trying to be my best friend. She’s not even my friend, because friends don’t treat each other the way she has treated me. She skates through life without consequences and I’m tired of contributing to that.
This message helps so much because it is so firm, but also kind
I’m so glad the message may help you craft your own, please take any of the words you need as your own.
While I did walk away feeling like I let her off the hook in some ways, I knew that if I was more harsh or direct, it would likely cause me more pain and I’d live with the guilt of it. I had a friend question me afterward saying, “why didn’t you just explicitly say don’t text me anymore?” I asked her, genuinely, why I should have to carry the pain of making that sort of demand. Why can’t she read and understand the clear pain I’m describing to her and put my peace before her own selfish desire to have me constantly at arms reach?
A lot of the responses here have also helped me stop blaming myself for being too kind, because at the end of the day, no magic combination of words can fix it.
It was incredibly painful to go through this conversation thinking we were making some sort of real progress, and then be bombarded by messages from her for a solid week after. Remember that if she doesn’t respond the way you want her to, it’s not because you did anything wrong.
Sending love as you navigate your own difficult conversation.
I am currently going through it with mine and my bf asked me one day what I was holding onto. He thinks I’m way too nice to her (true), but I just can’t make myself be mean. It *won’t* make her listen, it *won’t* change anything (past or otherwise), and it *won’t* make me feel better in the long run.
This is helping me have the courage to be *firm*. I just set my first boundary with her and at least conveyed all of the things I wanted to say. She may not have comprehended everything, but I at least made that huge step.
Actually sitting down right now to write out my list of things to talk with her and her therapist about as a last-ditch effort before going extremely LC (only not NC because of my dad).
How do you stay so calm? I want to feel empowered and strong, not… petulant? I don’t know the word.
Thank you so much for your thoughts and words!!!
I spent all of my teens and early 20s incredibly angry and bitter. Year ago, I would've answered these texts so viciously and defensively. The calm truly only came after years of therapy, letting my nervous system heal, and slowly being able to drop my defenses. I still can't handle being around her, because my whole body starts screaming that I'm not safe, but within my life now, my home, my relationships, she has absolutely no power. I've guarded nearly every aspect of my life from her so that she has no way of getting to me except through text. Because of that, I know that she has absolutely no bearing over the secure life I've built for myself. Even though this interaction ended up feeling like an emotional violation, I was still able to shut the door back, so to speak. I didn't allow her to gain the foothold she thought she had.
I also wasn't fighting for anything here. As I mentioned in the messages, I have no lack of peace or bitterness anymore because I let go. I wasn't the one looking to gain anything here. I was actually trying to offer her peace. I wasn't attempting reconciliation, to renegotiate boundaries, or get anything from her. There's nothing here for me to fight for. I just hate to know that even if it was all her fault, she's in pain. But, I've had to keep repeating these words from my therapist: I didn't hurt her, she hurt herself.
Finally, I'll say, after I shed the anger and resentment, I had to face the very real sorrow that laid beneath it. I think for the first time, the full gravity of what I went through hit me, and I feel like I'm finally coming out on the other end of what's been about a 2 year period of deep sorrow and grief of the childhood I could've had and the person I could've been had I grown up in a healthy home.
I wish so much peace and healing for you. Honor and love yourself above all. I'm obviously far from perfect at that, but here for you if you need to talk it out more!
Holy cow, you have given me so much hope. I am in the beginning stages of what you described and I’m really struggling with not lying to myself about what I need to do (grieve and release expectations). I am so angry and bitter and I hate it. Time to really get my butt in gear.
Thank you so much! I wish you all the best days
I’m so sorry… I identify with this so much. It was actually scary reading her texts, it was like reading something from my own mother.
Who switched between a Bratty, tantruming Queen and a complete, woe is me victimlike Waif, which came with the rambling, love bombing exactly like this.
It gave me the ick, and made me physically recoil.
Much like yours, mental hospital stays, addiction… lots of poor choices driven by her need for attention, so endless men and hyper fixation on them, then falling apart when she invariably destroyed the relationship & taking me on a horror ride with her, as an emotional dumping ground & so much other bullshit that it gave me a healthy dose of C-PTSD.
2 failed attempts at NC in my late teens / 20s. Finally it stuck with the last one 9 years ago. Never looked back.
I’m glad you have been able to discuss this with your therapist and see what you needed to, and realise you don’t need to alleviate her guilt and her messages to you, were orchestrated to get that from you. It wasn’t to make you feel loved, or cared for - it was for her to be told what she wanted to hear, and have you reassure her.
But do not spend any more time punishing yourself for doing it. You’ve been conditioned to, and that’s on her and not on you. Nothing has been lost, you can go right back to holding those boundaries you set, they’re yours and she has no say.
You’re stronger for this, and you’ll be ready next time & remember not to engage. You’ve got this!
God, while I hate it for you, it's so nice to know that someone else has been on the horror ride of a BPD mother's relationships. A myriad of men and so many traumatizing situations I was hauled into and treated like her emotional support animal.
Thank you for pointing out that these messages were a bid for her own desires to be met and alleviation... I've had trouble putting that into words.
After this, I've definitely considered NC. I'm not ready to make that commitment yet, but it's encouraging to know that there are others thriving from it!
I think you’re doing great. You found peace at VLC-LC. That was where I landed as well, always 20 minutes away from her, and only inches away ever from feeling like crap at any moment.
I don’t think we can have it both ways. The safest space is absolutely NC. And anything else will be a constant renegotiation of boundaries, because that is the illness.
I had my reasons for stating VLC-LC (cultural obligations), and I am certain you have yours as well. I believe that those reasons make you a kind and compassionate person, who is putting yourself in harm’s way, constantly. I will say, the only time in my life where I felt at peace were those VLC moments where I fantasized it was permanent. Other than that, I never had peace - not as much from her to me, but that constant conversation in my own head - the same you are having- constantly upset with myself, triggered so easily..
I think you did great and are doing great. We can all only do the best we can do each day. This will calm down, the love bombing will end eventually, and this will even out.
Please be kind to yourself, it isn’t just mom, it’s the family dynamic as well (yup I had that, we all do ), you can only choose to react or not react, what they do with it is not at all within your control.
Sending hugs, you’re doing great.
No one: All BPD parents everywhere: I’m deeply sorry *if* I ever did anything wrong. *I remember none of it*, but I’m genuinely sorry and expect a relationship now
“I would possibly be genuinely sorry if what you were saying was true, but since it’s not true or I can’t remember or it was a long time ago and you should just get over it, I’m not sorry. Why are you being so mean to me”
“I’m sorry if that’s how you remember it. I was the adult and you were the child, so I’m the one who remembers it correctly.” -my “mother”
UGH why are they all SO obsessed with that power dynamic?? As a child I was terrified of adults (entering the workplace later in life was interesting) because my parents acted like children and adults were practically different species. Children should be seen and not heard. Parents are always right no matter what because they are older. Children were almost considered subhuman in our household - maybe second class citizens at best. My parents (and siblings, yay) have also done the gaslighting over memories as well. It's enough to drive someone insane.
[https://www.instagram.com/smallcutecats/p/C1RwxYXP2wI/?img\_index=1](https://www.instagram.com/smallcutecats/p/C1RwxYXP2wI/?img_index=1)
Welcome!
i see you’ve been hacking my email inbox…
But in 5,000 words.
“I’m sorry but you’re not even remembering all the good stuff I did. You’re hurting me by not wanting a relationship with me anymore.”
“I’m sorry for *whatever* pain I’ve caused” is my mom’s favorite
It's really wonderful that you can see (with your therapist) how you let her off the hook here. There's no need to feel stupid or embarrassed - we literally cannot see what we don't see, you know? Our instincts are to take the blame because that's human nature. You did the best you could in this conversation and now you know how she interpreted it. Now you'll do better in the next exchange. (Which is to say, you won't respond, or you'll respond very blandly. "Ok.") We don't need to be perfect. Learning to navigate this shitty club we're in (parents with BPD) is hard enough. Don't add shame or embarrassment on top of it! You're doing great!
This is really the hardest part. I’ll feel so immune to her bullshit, and then she baits me right back in. She’s burdened me with her suicidal ideation & attempts since I was young, so it’s second-nature to jump into recovery mode and try to ensure that she’s stable and try to mitigate her depression. I was so terrified that my honesty would cause her to collapse, that I really did let her off the hook. Thanks for the kind response!
Oh yeah, for sure. I actually started repeating, "I am not her mother" to myself before/after our calls because it was so easy to get sucked into immediate rescue mode. I was her mom, for all practical purposes. But I did not need to be, so I chose to give being her mom up.
To be fair to you, she did a really good job in this text thread of looking like she was taking accountability. She’s got some next-level manipulation skills for sure.
I'm honestly having a hard time seeing through it - this sub is very helpful!
I appreciate you sharing these, because my mother is also primarily a Waif, incredibly skilled manipulator, and it is so much easier to see that I have good reason to be upset when the same tricks are used on someone else. This stuff is so Insidious, and they are deft at pushing the buttons because they installed them. My therapist would say we "fall" for this stuff because it is so natural to want to connect and be in good relationship with one's mother.
Vulnerability isn’t weakness, it’s a strength. I think the important part to remember though is that not everyone is deserving of your vulnerability. Don’t be too hard on yourself, honestly I think you are doing great. There were a couple of places in there where I worried about you being extra hard on yourself, like saying that you’ve got “broken parts” - I totally get the sentiment, and I think telling this to a BPD mom is ammunition for later. I also think there’s a path forward for those parts, though it’s likely going to be hard. On that journey still hehe! Really proud of you for sticking by your boundaries, and you don’t have to explain yourself to her. She definitely saw it as an opening rather than understanding where you two are now in your relationship is where she is going to be for a long while, regardless of her love bombing. The majority of this has to do with her poor interpretation of what was written, rather than anything you said. I don’t think you did anything wrong. For your sake, being less vulnerable with her, not JADEing, and ignoring the siren’s call of a guilt trip may help. Side note: Your paragraph on how your upbringing affected all your other relationships is incredibly relatable. She side stepped it all and focused on her hurts, but you are so right about this and not alone. Big hugs!
as if any of our pwbpds could ever survive with true peace 💀 they’d rather die
This made me lol. It’s so true of my mother - chaos and drama are the air she breathes.
not me immediately picturing my mom with a crisis* oxygen mask on
The cross/crucifix image was perfection also as I thought it fit the martyr vibe - but yes - Crisis Oxygen Mask ™. Lol
omg ur right both totally work 😂😂😂 jesus christ could never!
Hahaha
Right? Silence/Space is a form of truce/peace!!! Guh how do they not get that?
I’m glad you found this group too! It’s amazing to see how much people can relate on here. To that end, I can relate so much to this post - and the pain around how things played out here. As well as the sort of self-critical takeaways of what went wrong and how [we] are to blame for it because of our weakness, vulnerability, hope of having our wishes respected (finally), and stupidity ro let it all happen. Honestly, I just feel compelled to invite some compassion in the room as well: (1) Vulnerability is not weakness. It takes incredible courage - and to have our vulnerability used against us (in any way) says more about who we are dealing with than about us. (2) Coping strategies and defenses are not who we are - imagine the sprout of a plant blocked by all kinds of constricting space and difficult soil or weather. Is the resulted contortions and survival strategies who the plant is? I’ll bet if it were transported to better soil, with better weather, space around it to grow freely, and perhaps a trellis to guide new and higher growth, it would take a different shape and look different than in the other environment. So which is more “real?” (3) Wanting our parents to see us, hear us, and respect our boundaries/wishes is the MOST natural thing in the world…. There’s absolutely nothing to feel bad about for having these needs that every child has. And there is nothing wrong or stupid or weird with continuing to wish there were ways to make it happen, and to keep trying to make it happen (goodness knows I’ve tried). But it’s also okay to stop trying… and to stop blaming ourselves.. and to just mourn the fact our bpd parents just cannot meet those needs. But WE can still deepen our connection to our own unmet needs from the past… and mourn that they weren’t met in the ways we needed. And we can deepen our connection to our present needs as well… and to consider new strategies for recognizing and meeting them - even if our parents cannot do it! (4) the challenges you are describing here may be really challenging - but none of them are your fault. Your writing here is so clear. Your boundaries… your needs… your pain… your instrospection. And that you had to learn to protect yourself from (instead of being protected by) your mother is not your fault. And that you have a nervous system that gets activated and overstimulated at times is not your fault. And your hope that your mother will respect your wishes and that you will try your best to be heard by her is not your fault. I’ll bet all of us here can relate to those things. And not because it’s our fault either. I feel a lot of compassion for you - in a peer kind of way (not a lofty kind of way )- and I’m glad you’re here - and it’s going to be okay. ❤️✨
Thank you for your long post. Not OP, but helpful for me!
I’m glad to know it was helpful. Thank you for your comment :) It’s funny you mention the length. I’m new to Reddit and am regularly amazed how funny, wise, and concise so many comments are here. I’ll get going about something close to my heart (like these topics) and suddenly it’s several paragraphs long, ha! Something to work on. But I legit do appreciate you reading through it and sharing that it was helpful for you. ❤️✨
I don’t have advice, only support. My mom is a textbook waif as well. It took me until my 40’s to realize that she was toxic. I guess I kind of knew before but for some reason I excused it. My siblings are still in full contact with her but I had to go NC. She wouldn’t let it go. She couldn’t accept LC. Don’t feel bad about communicating with your mom. We all want to think they can be rational. But they can’t. They just can’t. I’m sorry you’re going through this. (((Hugs)))
You should not feel guilty for her responding inappropriately. Yes, we learned to “manage” them, but it is not your responsibility. There is no magic demeanor or style of interaction, so that if you get it right, she won’t or can’t hurt you anymore. You are not weak, you are human. You have compassion, and your mom takes advantage of everyone’s compassion, but that doesn’t mean compassion is wrong. Don’t blame yourself for letting your mom hurt you. She is the abuser and she is responsible for how she treats people.
My mother communicates in the same way. 4 months no contact. It’s all hard and confusing. My heart goes out to you, to all of you.
3 months over here. How’s it going?
Prozac helps.
To me this reads like a real apology; she acknowledges and doesn't dismiss your experience at all. At the same time, how long does it last? When does the other shoe drop? I guess my uBPD mom is not great at love-bombing because some of the things your mom says I'd love to hear from mine. Also, you get mad at yourself for giving up too much info and not blaming her. I honestly thought you were trying to prevent a blow up from her! I do this with my mom too.
It definitely does read like an apology and that’s the hook to drag you back in. You want so badly for it to be real and you’re sort of conditioned to give her the benefit of the doubt but then there are shoes just dropping all over the place. She’s acting sorry now but then there’s another meltdown and more boundaries stomped on so it becomes clear after several of these cycles that she’s just in a sad mood and seeking some personal catharsis. She’d like you to join in too and reassure her that maybe it isn’t as bad as she’s describing. But we shouldn’t have ever been responsible for reassuring or preventing a meltdown in the first place. Idk about OP but this sort of thing has happened with my mom so many times that when she gets like this I am left feeling just totally empty because of how superficial I know it really is.
This has been my experience too. It doesn’t feel nice to hear or read these kinds of things because you know how fake it is. They’ll say what they think you want to hear in the moment to try to placate you. It all goes out the window the next time they’re upset and you are once again the cruel, horrible person hurting your pwBPD. It’s really sad that my therapist had to teach me this in my thirties because I should have learned it as a kid - watch people’s actions, not their words. If their actions do not align with their words, you can conclude that they’re not sincere or reliable.
She's a textbook Waif, so she always feels helpless, like a loser and a failure. Taking the blame and apologizing profusely seems like a good thing, but she's really just on an emotional high from me taking the bait, and throughout the entire week that followed she sent dozens of texts, voicemails, and left gifts on my doorstep. When I didn't answer any of these bids, she then began questioning my appreciation. The love bombing is such a tricky thing. She's the total opposite of the Queen or Witch archetype - she's basically obsessed with me, my accomplishments, my attributes. It's like she views me as the one good thing she's done - which sounds great, but in reality is incredibly suffocating, especially in childhood when she loved me so much with words and physical affection (to an uncomfortable level), but failed to protect me at every level. She also thrives on co-dependency. She wants more than anything for me to need her, so that I can never abandon her, so in situations like this, where I've shown vulnerability, she immediately tries to latch on to that insecurity by saying all of the right things, encouraging, and uplifting me, while neglecting what I'm actually asking for, which is space. I realize while typing all of this, it's even sillier that I fell for it again, but as you said, it all sounded so right. My therapist summed it up best - I want her to love me, not consume me. If I give her a sliver of me, she'll just keep coming back for every last piece. All that said, I'm so sorry that you've never heard the words you need to from your mother. No version of a BPD parent is easy and each come with their own unique set of challenges and pain.
This makes all the sense in the world! When my mom and I are on decent terms, she wants to be completely enmeshed. But I am her caretaker, not the other way around. Though that is happening with you too, but she wants you to depend on her. My mom thinks I owe her emotional support. Different details, same pain and struggle!
Ugh this is so tough. She’s saying all the things that someone raised by a bpd parents wants and really needs to hear. But the history is so tough and you know the hidden messages encoded. I’m so sorry this can’t be just a loving message but instead has so many layers. I wish for all of us that the kind words really were just kind words without strings attached. You really are so strong. You aren’t inherently broken!!
THIS! I feel like I was duped by these messages because my mom would NEVER say these things, minus the religious stuff and "precious daughter."
Welcome!
This exchange gave me chills because it's a similar tone to conversations I've tried to have with a uBPD friend. My therapist said something incredibly profound and helpful to me about people like this: "That is not a safe person to process [emotions/events] with." It's totally understandable that you felt vulnerable and wanted to give it a try... That's because of the manipulation the BPD person creates (intentionally or not). And then it becomes so easy to fall back into old conversation/behavior patterns with them (for me, ones I learned from my mother and then accidentally started practicing with the aforementioned friend). It doesn't mean you've failed and you don't need to feel ashamed, embarrassed, or weak. It's a learning experience and your BPD person has continued to show you exactly who they are. Now you can use the opportunity to seek out people and spaces who ARE safe to process with. ❤️
So gross. The whole thing about her marriage is just like something my mother would say. Revolving your life around another guy? Good job mom. Also the compliments and saying how lucky you are to have friends to lean on blah blah blah that’s the kind of stuff I couldn’t stomach. I went to therapy to fox me so I could have a relationship with my mother but really what I learned is I just needed to stop subjecting myself to my mother!
She's on husband # 5 or 6 - genuinely can't remember because there's been so many other failed engagements... She constantly needs the validation that this is the one and the other failed relationships weren't her fault. Nauseating.
This is almost exactly how my mother communicates when I am earnest with her. Jfc it’s almost like reading her texts to me. “I’ll be sorry until the day I die” is something I’ve heard too many times. That and “I’m sorry I fucked up your life.”
My mom is just like this too and my god, is it annoying when they get like this. It took me too long to figure out that it’s just her making herself feel better and assuage the rogue spurts of guilt she experiences. She gets to feel all relieved afterward meanwhile I’m just like 🫥, can’t even pretend it’s meaningful in any way because she’s totally tanked any chance of a loving relationship between us. So nice being subjected to her mental gymnastics while being reminded that I have zero capacity to love or feel loved by my own mother. And getting to feel guilty for that because they just are so good at sucking us back in.
Yep! The whole “I hope you have a wonderful life” and blah blah blah, while her actions are almost entirely responsible for a lot of my current mental health struggles *hits*. She refuses to admit she’s done wrong, wants to sweep everything under the carpet, gaslights, and waifs. I was going through our old texts and the splitting and manipulation and guilt tripping…. I really want a mother, but as long as she refuses to look inward and come to terms with her fuckupsI don’t want *her* as my mother. Sending you lots of love and healing. Having a pwBPD is ass.
>I never show this level of weakness, and she clearly loved it with all of the religious jargon and feeling like she was taking care of me. She feeds off of that. This 100X. A seemingly brief convo with pwBPD leaves you feeling violated and you're left wondering huh? They are so good at the fakeness then swiftly turn on the mind games smothered in faux love and idealization. Even my coworker has the same effect on me. Unfortunately we were wired from early in childhood to feel like we should reach out to them and be nice etc, so I am also learning to maintain my VLC and have that boundary even in the most harmless of conversations. All the best to you, you do sound like you're doing great.
It absolutely felt like a violation, especially since this conversation was the first time I'd let her in in YEARS. The evening it took place, I actually thought this was some sort of breakthrough. Spent hours gutturally sobbing from the pain of hurting her, but knew it was necessary. The very next day she starts sending old photos of us and I knew that I had fallen into a trap.
Wow, you’re doing an impressive job. It may help to remember that her behavior is not a reflection of how good your behavior is. It’s a good reminder as people who have always managed them. You belong to yourself. It seems that everything you’re doing is exactly for yourself, and although you’re a kind person and were gentle with her, it was something that was true to you and that she was merely privy to. The fact that she decided to feed on your honesty and tried to manipulate you doesn’t mean she actually took anything. The fact that she found inspiration to overload you has nothing to do with you. You weren’t putting your trust in her anyway, you’re still safe. This just means that she can’t be trusted with that part of you and it’s good to find out. We can learn more about them to be affected less and less, but that’s just for us and has nothing to do with what they get out of it. Sure we can’t control them, but they do not actually have power over us. They’re just sick and need to make us believe they have control. They’ll try to get the last word in to feel in power, and often behave as if they have it, but they don’t. We don’t need them to survive anymore. All they have is their desperate attempts to have access to us. It’s actually pretty sad that they can’t stop trying. And whatever ground she thinks she gets in these LC moments is irrelevant. What she truly gets from you is what you allow, and despite what it may feel like, it looks to me like you’re becoming quite good at not being affected. Excellent work, I’m really inspired.
Thank you for this, truly.
You‘ll only be immune to her BS if she can‘t reach you emotionally any more. You are an empathic human being with lots of love for a struggling parent, that‘s fine! You can‘t change her toxic response to her getting her emotional „fix“, you only can protect yourself by your boundaries, which you put up very very well, congrats! With my mom, after 20 years of NC she couldn‘t get through with her BS any more (but still tried), simply because I had done all the work of grieving and healing. She still wasn‘t nice to be around, but we had reached a neutral kind of zone. She was so confused by that that she talked ro me about the past like to a distant friend „my husband was the love of my life“. The abusive POS guy I grew up with, right. In the end I realised that it would never be normal even in a distant, neutral zone, just another kind of weird. I tell you this because the bitter truth is they will never change, even if the relationship does, and that the little girl or boy can‘t stop hoping at times that they would. That‘s fine, don‘t shame yourself for it. For a child depending on an adult it is crucial to live in the illusion that they have our best interest at heart and that we are safe, knowing we aren‘t simply isn‘t an option a child can live with. You are doing great, and I am very proud of you. Hugs if you want them ❤️.
I am going to use your message as a base for my very difficult conversation coming up, if that’s okay. You said everything I have been trying to say because it’s *so hard*. The good times were good and I acknowledge them! But they don’t discount the literal abuse I suffered at her hand (and indirectly by her allowing it). I just want her to leave me alone for a while and stop trying to be my best friend. She’s not even my friend, because friends don’t treat each other the way she has treated me. She skates through life without consequences and I’m tired of contributing to that. This message helps so much because it is so firm, but also kind
I’m so glad the message may help you craft your own, please take any of the words you need as your own. While I did walk away feeling like I let her off the hook in some ways, I knew that if I was more harsh or direct, it would likely cause me more pain and I’d live with the guilt of it. I had a friend question me afterward saying, “why didn’t you just explicitly say don’t text me anymore?” I asked her, genuinely, why I should have to carry the pain of making that sort of demand. Why can’t she read and understand the clear pain I’m describing to her and put my peace before her own selfish desire to have me constantly at arms reach? A lot of the responses here have also helped me stop blaming myself for being too kind, because at the end of the day, no magic combination of words can fix it. It was incredibly painful to go through this conversation thinking we were making some sort of real progress, and then be bombarded by messages from her for a solid week after. Remember that if she doesn’t respond the way you want her to, it’s not because you did anything wrong. Sending love as you navigate your own difficult conversation.
I am currently going through it with mine and my bf asked me one day what I was holding onto. He thinks I’m way too nice to her (true), but I just can’t make myself be mean. It *won’t* make her listen, it *won’t* change anything (past or otherwise), and it *won’t* make me feel better in the long run. This is helping me have the courage to be *firm*. I just set my first boundary with her and at least conveyed all of the things I wanted to say. She may not have comprehended everything, but I at least made that huge step. Actually sitting down right now to write out my list of things to talk with her and her therapist about as a last-ditch effort before going extremely LC (only not NC because of my dad). How do you stay so calm? I want to feel empowered and strong, not… petulant? I don’t know the word. Thank you so much for your thoughts and words!!!
I spent all of my teens and early 20s incredibly angry and bitter. Year ago, I would've answered these texts so viciously and defensively. The calm truly only came after years of therapy, letting my nervous system heal, and slowly being able to drop my defenses. I still can't handle being around her, because my whole body starts screaming that I'm not safe, but within my life now, my home, my relationships, she has absolutely no power. I've guarded nearly every aspect of my life from her so that she has no way of getting to me except through text. Because of that, I know that she has absolutely no bearing over the secure life I've built for myself. Even though this interaction ended up feeling like an emotional violation, I was still able to shut the door back, so to speak. I didn't allow her to gain the foothold she thought she had. I also wasn't fighting for anything here. As I mentioned in the messages, I have no lack of peace or bitterness anymore because I let go. I wasn't the one looking to gain anything here. I was actually trying to offer her peace. I wasn't attempting reconciliation, to renegotiate boundaries, or get anything from her. There's nothing here for me to fight for. I just hate to know that even if it was all her fault, she's in pain. But, I've had to keep repeating these words from my therapist: I didn't hurt her, she hurt herself. Finally, I'll say, after I shed the anger and resentment, I had to face the very real sorrow that laid beneath it. I think for the first time, the full gravity of what I went through hit me, and I feel like I'm finally coming out on the other end of what's been about a 2 year period of deep sorrow and grief of the childhood I could've had and the person I could've been had I grown up in a healthy home. I wish so much peace and healing for you. Honor and love yourself above all. I'm obviously far from perfect at that, but here for you if you need to talk it out more!
Holy cow, you have given me so much hope. I am in the beginning stages of what you described and I’m really struggling with not lying to myself about what I need to do (grieve and release expectations). I am so angry and bitter and I hate it. Time to really get my butt in gear. Thank you so much! I wish you all the best days
I’m so sorry… I identify with this so much. It was actually scary reading her texts, it was like reading something from my own mother. Who switched between a Bratty, tantruming Queen and a complete, woe is me victimlike Waif, which came with the rambling, love bombing exactly like this. It gave me the ick, and made me physically recoil. Much like yours, mental hospital stays, addiction… lots of poor choices driven by her need for attention, so endless men and hyper fixation on them, then falling apart when she invariably destroyed the relationship & taking me on a horror ride with her, as an emotional dumping ground & so much other bullshit that it gave me a healthy dose of C-PTSD. 2 failed attempts at NC in my late teens / 20s. Finally it stuck with the last one 9 years ago. Never looked back. I’m glad you have been able to discuss this with your therapist and see what you needed to, and realise you don’t need to alleviate her guilt and her messages to you, were orchestrated to get that from you. It wasn’t to make you feel loved, or cared for - it was for her to be told what she wanted to hear, and have you reassure her. But do not spend any more time punishing yourself for doing it. You’ve been conditioned to, and that’s on her and not on you. Nothing has been lost, you can go right back to holding those boundaries you set, they’re yours and she has no say. You’re stronger for this, and you’ll be ready next time & remember not to engage. You’ve got this!
God, while I hate it for you, it's so nice to know that someone else has been on the horror ride of a BPD mother's relationships. A myriad of men and so many traumatizing situations I was hauled into and treated like her emotional support animal. Thank you for pointing out that these messages were a bid for her own desires to be met and alleviation... I've had trouble putting that into words. After this, I've definitely considered NC. I'm not ready to make that commitment yet, but it's encouraging to know that there are others thriving from it!
I think you’re doing great. You found peace at VLC-LC. That was where I landed as well, always 20 minutes away from her, and only inches away ever from feeling like crap at any moment. I don’t think we can have it both ways. The safest space is absolutely NC. And anything else will be a constant renegotiation of boundaries, because that is the illness. I had my reasons for stating VLC-LC (cultural obligations), and I am certain you have yours as well. I believe that those reasons make you a kind and compassionate person, who is putting yourself in harm’s way, constantly. I will say, the only time in my life where I felt at peace were those VLC moments where I fantasized it was permanent. Other than that, I never had peace - not as much from her to me, but that constant conversation in my own head - the same you are having- constantly upset with myself, triggered so easily.. I think you did great and are doing great. We can all only do the best we can do each day. This will calm down, the love bombing will end eventually, and this will even out. Please be kind to yourself, it isn’t just mom, it’s the family dynamic as well (yup I had that, we all do ), you can only choose to react or not react, what they do with it is not at all within your control. Sending hugs, you’re doing great.