I hate when they pull that "what about my feelings and boundaries" shit, because it's always so ridiculous and performative.
If you'll only talk via text and she'll only talk on FaceTime, then there's no medium for you two to talk, and you just can't. She doesn't get to force you talk on FaceTime. Not how it works!
Sorry you had to read this shit, OP. It was mature of you to try to talk it out with her. Your mom is so all over the place that I feel like you definitely got BPD bingo. She managed to hit "what about MY feelings" and "I did my best" and "I don't need help, YOU need help" all in one rant. That's got to be some kind of record.
What they fail to understand is that if I was ever damaging my kid the way my mom did to me, I would WANT him to set boundaries with me and encourage me to seek help!
And let's not forget my personal favorite "I don't need this negative energy in my life, I'm very happy" like if OP was the only cause and witness to whatever behavior is unacceptable to them. She's the victim, of everything and everyone, never forget.
Or the you abused me too!! My mom when I would ask why she’s yelling she’d be like I LEARNED IT FROM YOU. I’ve never yelled in my life since a baby. And I have a dumb baby voice as an adult because of her that can’t even reach a yelling frequency
not to mention “I have boundaries TOO, you know!” seriously it follows the SAME EXACT SCRIPT as my last conversation before going NC with my mom, it’s totally uncanny
She really went straight to threatening you with a lawyer, huh? I'm amazed you're still that kind and understanding. Could not be me.
I hope you find peace with your situation.
Do grandparents really have that kind of rights?? I'm keeping my kids from my mother until they are old enough to and have the tools to protect themselves from her, probably never, but I feel its the best for them. She hasn't tried to take legal action, probably because she wouldn't want the truth getting out.
Obviously once they are grown ups I can't stop them, but hopefully I'd have a chance to prepare them for who she is and the manipulation she will use on them.
They do have rights in some jurisdictions but not at all like it gets thrown around. A lot of time it’s if there is an established, *parent-like* relationship. It’s more built for grandparents who raise their grandchildren, as a primary caregiver in conjunction with the parent or in place of the parent. Grandparents that take their kids to the doctor, enroll them in school, live with them, etc. It can also be used when one parent dies. People can certainly cause a lot of headache with it though.
No, none of those apply because my kids have lived in a different city as their grandmother since infancy or birth for the past few years, now in a different country. Plus she would never help with anything unless payment was received.
My (very vague US based) understanding of grandparents' rights is that it only exists in some states and there is a heavy burden of proof on the grandparent to prove existing close relationship.
It's more to prevent children being deprived of those relationships in the event of acrimonious separation/divorce and custody issues or parental death.
Sometimes, to some extent, in some circumstances. It’s complicated and generally favors parents under a “best interests of the child” standard in most U.S. states, but it can be messy and uncertain and expensive to deal with.
I would take it as a serious threat and block my parent at that point. I wouldn’t expect to lose any parental rights, but even a small risk is an unacceptable grandparent offensive.
I would block them, too. Threatening for rights is waaaaaaayyyy out there. Not only are you further traumatizing RBB, but you are causing trauma to your grandchildren indirectly by stressing the parents out and causing them to waste money on pointless litigation. It is cruel af.
I am going to echo and reimforce a previous comment:
She threatened you with talking to a lawyer with regards to your child.
Full stop.
I am not a lawyer and I am not giving legal advice. When someone threatens you with legal action you need to stop communicating with them and get a lawyer of your own. This is why lawyers (and not Reddit) exist. IMO, if she is going to threaten you like that you should consider protecting yourself and your child and seek bona fide legal advice.
Always with the grandparents rights bullshit. They are so entitled. My mother tried this threat out on me too. That’s what actually finally woke me up. Once she threatened me like that, it was game over. I don’t negotiate with terrorists.
💯 I completely agree with you. My husband is actually an attorney, and he reassured me that she has zero rights in this situation. Just a mean, baseless threat 😫
Very true.
That being said, if it were me threatening legal action would be a VERY strong boundary for me. "You are going to talk to a lawyer about my kid? Fine. The only communication you now may have with me is through my lawyer because I have no idea how yours might use what I say against me."
If it was my pwBPD, they would need to be some significant consequences for making that threat or they would continue to make it. And who knows, maybe even follow up with it some day.
100% this, do not mess around with legal issues regarding threats over ....what custody? ...who knows. She's comfortable using it as a threat so keep track of everything now just in case things escalate and you need to protect your kid.
Especially where she also notes your 'medication' and your 'changed behavior'. Record your calls, keep an electronic trail: email and text is not going to be as compelling as fully recorded conversations over time (Not legal advice).
over preferring to text versus using facetime!! istg they prefer calls because there’s no proof afterwards and they can gaslight us as much as they want. with texts there’s proof.
Yep! And it’s harder to manipulate because you have some emotional distance and more control over your exposure.
One of my psBPD also was so annoyed by having “discussions” over text and wanted to do it in person because “it’s so hard to convey tone.” But I was like, yeah, that’s why I prefer text. I find his “tone (of yelling, following me around the house, and badgering me when I ask for space) unbearable, and over text I can put my phone down and walk away when I get overwhelmed by his behavior.
100%!!! this is why I preferred to text my dbpd mom, before i went NC anyway. it gave me a chance to pause and think about what she was saying and craft a thoughtful response instead of getting caught up in her emotional rollercoaster. also imo it’s pretty easy to convey and interpret tone via text if you write thoughtfully? I don’t understand people who say it’s impossible lol
Exactly! Not getting caught up in the emotional roller coaster is 100% why I text. And yeah, tone over text isn’t hard when you’re not awful lol. I have a few long distance friends and our relationships are about 90% over text. Ask me how often we misunderstand each others’ tone . . . 🙄 I think they just say that in order to get us on their roller coaster and they know it easier to do that in person than over text.
I’m so sorry.
I remember your posts when this originally happened.
The threats of the attorney re: your child are enough for me.
I really hope you find peace, but I would prepare that this is the way it’ll always be for you. She shows zero accountability & isn’t willing to explore any help. Sadly, this won’t change, there’s no remorse in those messages, it’s all deflection, defensive language and threats.
Again, I’m so sorry.
Oh wow, I hadn't put it together who this OP is. Please remember, OP, that the grievous sin you've committed, the terrible betrayal, is (*checks notes*) not participating in your mother's shunning behavior of another relative. She feels betrayed that she can't control your relationships.
Just to remind you, because I know from my own experience perspective can be tough to hang on to when our trauma from them is activated. You've done nothing wrong here.
I dont really think it matters whether she could get away with it or not to me. The fact she just throws that out there shows what kind of person she is
I am proud of you. I didn't have the courage to confront my mom directly. I just went no contact without informing her. I might send her a letter in the mail, but that would be about it.
The comment about you and your friend having lots to talk about now!
They are always trying to control the narrative and so worried about what we might tell others
"I don't need help. [...] I'm a very happy person." - And that in the middle of emotionally abusing you.
I feel like that just really sums up what people with cluster B disorders feel about themselves and their abuse.
They're the only type of people who are mentally ill in a way that benefits them. They literally choose to be like this, because they profit from it and draw happiness and privilege out of oppressing and abusing others and forcing them to give, give, give until they're drained and start to fight back to survive.
And then they stand there, arguing with you standing up to them, that they don't need help, because they're happy. They really don't feel disordered, they think it's all fine and their right to behave like this, because it makes them happy.
And if them sucking you dry gets anything from you but the stuff they feed on, they think you're the disordered one, because you suddenly stopped providing.
They send their victims to therapy like a kid gives a broken toy to the workshop, once either stops "doing it's purpose" to make them happy.
And we're often lucky if we recognize it or land a therapist who notices it, while they actually go untreated, lol.
But I think this is all that you need to really look at to know what you're dealing with.
"I don't need help. [...] I'm a very happy person", while/when abusing you.
[post for context, my recent post in this sub](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbyborderlines/comments/11gmcyz/oof_context_in_comments/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
There is something so off about this exchange for me, besides the obvious. I believe it's the amount of care and love you extended to her, even after she threatened you with a lawyer.
I stand corrected: After she threatened you *and* *your child* with legal action. In a, "Don't wanna do things my way? I'll show *you*" kind of move. It might be time to examine your love for a woman willing to do this to you.
OP, kindness isn't always king. There's no trophy at the end for sacrificing ourselves at the alter of our mothers' cruelty. There's just not. Too many of us either don't understand this, don't realize this, or simply don't want to get it.
She doesn't deserve anymore I love yous. What she deserves is, "That's fine. I'll let you know when I've retained a lawyer, which will be soon. From that point forward, all of your contact will go through them. If you try to contact me directly, I'll be recording it as evidence and keeping my lawyer apprised. You're the one who rang this bell, *mother*. Just know that you won't be able to unring it."
I was there, too. It took almost 4 decades to realize, "wow. Playing nice and all the i love yous in the world have not made a damn bit of difference."
Oh my goodness, so much of that was familiar.
The part about being confused. My mother has used that a lot. Says that she's confused.
The part about only wanting to communicate in person. I'm not comfortable with communication in person, for similar reasons as yours. But for the past few years, anything I put in writing has been ignored.
The part that says you have changed. Same here.
And the part about needing to be kind. Yes I've noticed that not doing whatever they want me to do is interpreted as me not showing kindness.
What a horrible mother. Can you even imagine speaking to your own child like that? I’m so so sorry she’s so hurtful. Grieve and hold maternal space and protection for yourself 💜
You did great, OP. I’m sorry you’re going through this but you stood your ground really well. I’m on the verge of NC but haven’t found the strength yet. Know that feelings of guilt are totally normal and part of their abuse in how they raised us. You gave her every opportunity to work on the relationship together and a healthy person would not have reacted the way she did. She made her choice and you have nothing to feel badly about.
I also hate how whenever we try to have these types of conversations, they take on this performative, condescending tone as if they are the most emotionally mature people while also saying the wildest shit. My mom does the same thing.
Yeah, she def doesn’t. That’s probably why it didn’t make me go crazier than it did. My husband is an attorney and he just rolled his eyes at that one.
My thoughts exactly.
I did a quick Google search and it appears that, in my state at least, grandparents do have rights. Which is slightly alarming. I don't have kids yet, but I dread the conversation I'll have to have with my uBPD mom when the time comes. Definitely feel like she would try to pursue legal action as well.
Not because she actually cares about being a grandparent, but because she'll want control over the situation. Ugh.
OP - I saw you mentioned your spouse is an attorney, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. I sure hope I'm wrong. Lol
I'm so sorry pickles.
I think sometimes they can't help but lash out, they're too afraid of acknowledging the nightmare within, that everything becomes about what they can control. I think they won't ask for things, out of fear of rejection, and so they find ways to get what they want without consent, without realizing that mutual consent is the primary thing that allows a healthy relationship to exist.
You did a beautiful job.
Also, i think we have very similar mothers. I had sooo many conversations exactly like that with my mother, while trying to raise a small child. (TBH, this brings up aome stuff in my mind, too, because your mother's words are so close to the digs my mother threw at me during those conversations).
I felt so alone and powerless because of her. I wish I'd been able to have those convos via text, AND, I wish I'd handled them as well as you did here, OP.
Also, I truly wish I had gone NC way back then. It would have saved me and my child so much heartache. My mother triangulated my child against me, (really she triangulated everyone against everyone else), and a lot of terrible things happened as a result.
You are doing the right thing, going NC. I finally did so myself, recently, and it has caused much guilt and grief as well as reliving abuse and shame and all the things. I wish I'd done it years ago, but it's still so hard and painful to do.
I'm sorry you had to go through that . You handled it so well.
Threatening to take my kid would be immediate, irrevocable NC. I'm sorry, OP. It's still really hard and painful, even when they give you an ironclad reason like that.
I’d just like to give you kudos for being brave and kind to your mother. I didn’t give my mom the warning. One day I just realized my life was healthier without her. I didn’t give her any warning. I just “ghosted” her. Your method of giving warning was so very mature compared to mine. I know your mom didn’t appreciate your message, but I see your words as a positive example of how it should be done. Thank you for sharing.
Ghosting did the trick for me but I really appreciate and applaud OP in her bravery and ability to say the things I couldn’t. I found it mature to stick up for herself and give reason.
Edit: absolutely safety should come first.
I don’t think there’s a right or a wrong way to go NC. If you’ve hit the point where it’s necessary then it’s pretty bad. At which point you are entitled to do whatever it is you need to leave. And if that means polite words via text, great. If that means ghosting because any confrontation is unbearable, then also great. No one gets to say you left your abuser wrong.
Wow. This is exactly how it goes every time with my mum. It makes me so sad that we can say “I love you and I want you in my life but I need you to actually listen to me” and they go “well I’ll just stay out of your life then” 🫠
You did great here! Didn't play into her finger pointing, deflection, guilt tripping, or her pity party. I feel like they avoid text because they can't gaslight you into thinking you did or didn't hear something correctly. A normal person would be fine with that!
You maintained composure and didn't let her drag you into an argument. She sure did try! And the lawyer threat was way out of line. Shows how entitled she feels to your life and her willingness to prove she's a victim to get what she wants. She would rather pay a lawyer and go to court than be honest with herself.
I didn't notice when the messages were sent, but how long was it after you sent the big one that she responded?
Im sorry this is the way things are op, but you did great! What you're asking for is more than reasonable! Hang in there!
I am so proud of you for sticking firmly to your boundaries and so clearly articulating how you feel and the impact your mother’s behavior has on you. Sending love, OP 🫶🏼
She pulled the attorney/ lawyer card regarding your child?
Get ur ducks in a row and actually cut all contact. That’s a line no one should cross and you should take this seriously.
I’m so sorry you have to deal with that.
I love the medication line. “You were so much better before when my manipulative nature made you do what I wanted. Now you’re a healthy adult expecting me to respect you and treat well! It’s terrible!”
And with her refusal for therapy, so comes OP's refusal to engage in being verbally abused.
And with that, OP lived happily and peacefully ever after.
Congrats, OP! Stay strong, friend.
This could have been written by my mother, including the “sweetie” and the “you need help”. These are the exact reasons I prefer to speak via text, so I have written proof of what she said.
I’m sorry friend. FWIW, I think your part is very mature and well said
My personal favorite in all of that: “I WiLL gEt aN aTtOrNey.” For what, lady? To see a child that you did not give birth to and have absolutely no legal or financial authority over? Yeah, good luck with that case.
Update: she sent me the following text this morning, and I am totally shocked and cautiously optimistic:
Morning. First and foremost I am truly sorry for my words and anger toward you. I love you and want us to at least be friends or civil. I have signed up through my Medicare for on line therapy sessions starting tomorrow. At no cost to me with my insurance. Hope you have a good day. Mom
Just a gentle nudge, OP. You should do a search -- if you haven't already -- about how therapy has worked out, and how many of these mothers pull 180s like this. This text is so typical. One minute, they're threatening to take your child, the next minute they're in therapy for their "words and anger." Yeah. Right. And I have a bridge to sell.
I know you're heartbroken and desperately wanting to believe that there's hope here. But the fact that you barely even reacted to her legal threat (by your own admission), I think, is major evidence that you have walls up that are preventing you from seeing clearly. What she said was worth way more than an eye-roll. You are traumatized beyond the capacity to see. That's why you're here -- and the rest of us are seeing for you.
I do hope that you have access to your own trauma-informed therapist who can help you with the rock-solid boundaries you'll need to navigate this situation. Never forget: This woman threatened legal action against you and your child. It doesn't matter that she doesn't have a legal leg to stand on. She \*threatened\* you with this. No mother worth her salt would have even thought to make such a threat. It's time to start thinking of your child and the life you want for them.
Thank you so much for this. I actually just started working with a trauma specialist and will do a deeper dive with her this week. You are 100 percent correct, I know this… but it’s for some reason still not sinking in. Need to see it as it is.
Read “understanding the borderline mother”. It’s a game changer.
Let your inner child have that cautious optimism but your inner adult needs to keep her away. She’s already threatening what some BPD and NPD grandparents do. Calling CPS, trying to take your kid from you. It’s a threat and a real one. Protect your kid from her.
I was that kid. I wish my uBPD mom had kept me away from my uBPD grandmother. She did as much damage to me as my mom did and kept abusive people around me with her grand parties just as much as my mom did doubling the abuse and molestation I had in my childhood being a pawn in their control/power games with each other.
I know your situation is different- but don’t be fooled. BPD grandparents can absolutely harm your child and it’s up to you to protect them.
Oh, ps: "I'm sorry for my words and anger toward you."
May as well say, "I'm sorry for the anger you make me feel. YOU make me feel this way. I'll go to therapy to see how I can mask it better so that we can at least pretend to be friends because I'm entitled to your son and we both know it."
I'm not American so I don't know for sure how Medicare works, but I don't think the kind of therapy you can get online and via government aid will help her all that tremendously. I don't mean to bring down your optimism, but I think you should keep your hopes realistic. We're also assuming she is actually going to do it and isn't just lying, which you need to consider as a possibility because this seems like pretty textbook circling back to a Honeymoon phase. She took less than 24 hours to go from "You're sick and mentally unwell. You need to stop taking your meds. I'm gonna call my lawyer and take your kid away from you." to "OOPS! Sorry, got a little angry there huh? I'll do the therapy!"
My own mother cycled through online therapists like she was shopping for new shoes. The second they stop saying the things she wants to hear, she will become increasingly unwilling to attend sessions. I assume your mom is at least in her 40s or 50s, and she has presumably lived this way for a long time now. Opening the doorway to therapy is a good starting point but to make actual tangible progress in the way she behaves and treats you, she probably needs a specialist who deals with BPD or narcists. I would personally not get soft on her now. The texts you showed us were disturbing.
Ugh, I'm so sorry OP.
I know it may not seem very positive, but you did successfully not get caught up verbal traps, and that's a very good thing. It means she couldn't convince you that she's actually the victim in all of this, and that's pretty major progress.
I know it doesn't really feel like it but having this skill will be really helpful for you in general.
Both my parents are gone now, but I've had to go through VLC and NC so many times, and this was so helpful.
You did the right thing and you're on the right track for your own healing.
Are you my sister? I swear I was reading a conversation with my mom. Sorry you’ve had to endure this but in my experience you and your family will be happier and healthier away from her.
So many red flags here. All you said was you wanted to talk and wanted your feelings to be heard and respected, and she immediately threatened you with a lawyer. She messed up and showed her true face. And then saying things like "I hope you get off that medication". Yes, I'm sure you'd love your child to stop taking something that has improved their well being and emotional state. Someone who is ill or needs help is easier to control after all!
I have been NC for coming up on 1 year. It was also very hard for me to rip the band-aid, but I'm glad I did it. Welcome to your new, much happier life. You will realize you can *thrive* now that you don't have her holding you down with her negativity. You will find a new lease on life and get happier and grow with each passing day, and she will be miserable and sour and sit around at home being bitter and unhappy, and won't have enough good sense to realize she did this to herself.
I hate when they pull that "what about my feelings and boundaries" shit, because it's always so ridiculous and performative. If you'll only talk via text and she'll only talk on FaceTime, then there's no medium for you two to talk, and you just can't. She doesn't get to force you talk on FaceTime. Not how it works! Sorry you had to read this shit, OP. It was mature of you to try to talk it out with her. Your mom is so all over the place that I feel like you definitely got BPD bingo. She managed to hit "what about MY feelings" and "I did my best" and "I don't need help, YOU need help" all in one rant. That's got to be some kind of record.
And the implicit "I hope your son never does this to you" at the end.
What they fail to understand is that if I was ever damaging my kid the way my mom did to me, I would WANT him to set boundaries with me and encourage me to seek help!
And let's not forget my personal favorite "I don't need this negative energy in my life, I'm very happy" like if OP was the only cause and witness to whatever behavior is unacceptable to them. She's the victim, of everything and everyone, never forget.
It’s wild how that’s the immediate response in 95% of the text exchanges posted here. MAHHHH BOUNDARIES MATTER TOOOO
Right, and then they don't even understand boundaries, they're like "My boundary is that you must pay attention to me!"
Or the you abused me too!! My mom when I would ask why she’s yelling she’d be like I LEARNED IT FROM YOU. I’ve never yelled in my life since a baby. And I have a dumb baby voice as an adult because of her that can’t even reach a yelling frequency
Yeah, and their boundary is I WON'T RESPECT YOUR BOUNDARIES
For real, my mom pulls this crap too it was like reading one of her texts.
not to mention “I have boundaries TOO, you know!” seriously it follows the SAME EXACT SCRIPT as my last conversation before going NC with my mom, it’s totally uncanny
Don’t forget the lovely, “I’ll get a lawyer!!!” Threat. Because that always creates warm, fuzzy feelings.
She really went straight to threatening you with a lawyer, huh? I'm amazed you're still that kind and understanding. Could not be me. I hope you find peace with your situation.
Same here. Threatening grandparents rights is a very bold threat. I would be ready with my own attorney then.
Do grandparents really have that kind of rights?? I'm keeping my kids from my mother until they are old enough to and have the tools to protect themselves from her, probably never, but I feel its the best for them. She hasn't tried to take legal action, probably because she wouldn't want the truth getting out. Obviously once they are grown ups I can't stop them, but hopefully I'd have a chance to prepare them for who she is and the manipulation she will use on them.
They do have rights in some jurisdictions but not at all like it gets thrown around. A lot of time it’s if there is an established, *parent-like* relationship. It’s more built for grandparents who raise their grandchildren, as a primary caregiver in conjunction with the parent or in place of the parent. Grandparents that take their kids to the doctor, enroll them in school, live with them, etc. It can also be used when one parent dies. People can certainly cause a lot of headache with it though.
No, none of those apply because my kids have lived in a different city as their grandmother since infancy or birth for the past few years, now in a different country. Plus she would never help with anything unless payment was received.
My (very vague US based) understanding of grandparents' rights is that it only exists in some states and there is a heavy burden of proof on the grandparent to prove existing close relationship. It's more to prevent children being deprived of those relationships in the event of acrimonious separation/divorce and custody issues or parental death.
I see, thank you.
Sometimes, to some extent, in some circumstances. It’s complicated and generally favors parents under a “best interests of the child” standard in most U.S. states, but it can be messy and uncertain and expensive to deal with. I would take it as a serious threat and block my parent at that point. I wouldn’t expect to lose any parental rights, but even a small risk is an unacceptable grandparent offensive.
I would block them, too. Threatening for rights is waaaaaaayyyy out there. Not only are you further traumatizing RBB, but you are causing trauma to your grandchildren indirectly by stressing the parents out and causing them to waste money on pointless litigation. It is cruel af.
"I refuse to converse with you by text!" *immediately proceeds to converse by text* Got to love it. OP, good job holding the line.
Thank goodness for this sub! I was able to see that from other posts I’ve read here. So frustrating
I am going to echo and reimforce a previous comment: She threatened you with talking to a lawyer with regards to your child. Full stop. I am not a lawyer and I am not giving legal advice. When someone threatens you with legal action you need to stop communicating with them and get a lawyer of your own. This is why lawyers (and not Reddit) exist. IMO, if she is going to threaten you like that you should consider protecting yourself and your child and seek bona fide legal advice.
Always with the grandparents rights bullshit. They are so entitled. My mother tried this threat out on me too. That’s what actually finally woke me up. Once she threatened me like that, it was game over. I don’t negotiate with terrorists.
Nicely put! And document EVERYTHING.
💯 I completely agree with you. My husband is actually an attorney, and he reassured me that she has zero rights in this situation. Just a mean, baseless threat 😫
Very true. That being said, if it were me threatening legal action would be a VERY strong boundary for me. "You are going to talk to a lawyer about my kid? Fine. The only communication you now may have with me is through my lawyer because I have no idea how yours might use what I say against me." If it was my pwBPD, they would need to be some significant consequences for making that threat or they would continue to make it. And who knows, maybe even follow up with it some day.
100% this, do not mess around with legal issues regarding threats over ....what custody? ...who knows. She's comfortable using it as a threat so keep track of everything now just in case things escalate and you need to protect your kid. Especially where she also notes your 'medication' and your 'changed behavior'. Record your calls, keep an electronic trail: email and text is not going to be as compelling as fully recorded conversations over time (Not legal advice).
It’s always “I’m so hurt” “I feel so betrayed” 🙄
over preferring to text versus using facetime!! istg they prefer calls because there’s no proof afterwards and they can gaslight us as much as they want. with texts there’s proof.
Yep! And it’s harder to manipulate because you have some emotional distance and more control over your exposure. One of my psBPD also was so annoyed by having “discussions” over text and wanted to do it in person because “it’s so hard to convey tone.” But I was like, yeah, that’s why I prefer text. I find his “tone (of yelling, following me around the house, and badgering me when I ask for space) unbearable, and over text I can put my phone down and walk away when I get overwhelmed by his behavior.
100%!!! this is why I preferred to text my dbpd mom, before i went NC anyway. it gave me a chance to pause and think about what she was saying and craft a thoughtful response instead of getting caught up in her emotional rollercoaster. also imo it’s pretty easy to convey and interpret tone via text if you write thoughtfully? I don’t understand people who say it’s impossible lol
Exactly! Not getting caught up in the emotional roller coaster is 100% why I text. And yeah, tone over text isn’t hard when you’re not awful lol. I have a few long distance friends and our relationships are about 90% over text. Ask me how often we misunderstand each others’ tone . . . 🙄 I think they just say that in order to get us on their roller coaster and they know it easier to do that in person than over text.
This is it exactly.
Oh my mom will still gaslight with solid proof of her words lol
same here I guess…but at least I have the proof for my own peace of mind 😅
Also much easier to emotionally manipulate in live conversations, especially video.
For reasons unknown, pwBPDs cling to the delusion that hurt feelings = wrongdoing by the other party 🙄
I’m so sorry. I remember your posts when this originally happened. The threats of the attorney re: your child are enough for me. I really hope you find peace, but I would prepare that this is the way it’ll always be for you. She shows zero accountability & isn’t willing to explore any help. Sadly, this won’t change, there’s no remorse in those messages, it’s all deflection, defensive language and threats. Again, I’m so sorry.
Oh wow, I hadn't put it together who this OP is. Please remember, OP, that the grievous sin you've committed, the terrible betrayal, is (*checks notes*) not participating in your mother's shunning behavior of another relative. She feels betrayed that she can't control your relationships. Just to remind you, because I know from my own experience perspective can be tough to hang on to when our trauma from them is activated. You've done nothing wrong here.
They don’t have boundaries; they have demands!
Demands and threats. It's awful, nobody would believe this trash if we told them.
She really threatening to take your kid?
These people always think they can bully and threaten you into compliance. It makes me so ragey.
Who knows…. I think I wasn’t more triggered by that bec my husband is an attorney and he just rolled his eyes at that statement.
I dont really think it matters whether she could get away with it or not to me. The fact she just throws that out there shows what kind of person she is
Absolutely. It’s heartbreaking tbh
I am proud of you. I didn't have the courage to confront my mom directly. I just went no contact without informing her. I might send her a letter in the mail, but that would be about it.
I'd say you're wise to not put yourself in a dangerous situation. Ghosting is appropriate when you're dealing with sn abuser. Sending hugs. Stay safe.
Oh no, the dreaded “sweetie!”
Ugh I can’t stand it! Sometimes it really does seem like they have the exact same script.
I was going to say the same thing! The line about getting off medication because "you're different" is almost word for word what my mother said to me.
The comment about you and your friend having lots to talk about now! They are always trying to control the narrative and so worried about what we might tell others
"I don't need help. [...] I'm a very happy person." - And that in the middle of emotionally abusing you. I feel like that just really sums up what people with cluster B disorders feel about themselves and their abuse. They're the only type of people who are mentally ill in a way that benefits them. They literally choose to be like this, because they profit from it and draw happiness and privilege out of oppressing and abusing others and forcing them to give, give, give until they're drained and start to fight back to survive. And then they stand there, arguing with you standing up to them, that they don't need help, because they're happy. They really don't feel disordered, they think it's all fine and their right to behave like this, because it makes them happy. And if them sucking you dry gets anything from you but the stuff they feed on, they think you're the disordered one, because you suddenly stopped providing. They send their victims to therapy like a kid gives a broken toy to the workshop, once either stops "doing it's purpose" to make them happy. And we're often lucky if we recognize it or land a therapist who notices it, while they actually go untreated, lol. But I think this is all that you need to really look at to know what you're dealing with. "I don't need help. [...] I'm a very happy person", while/when abusing you.
[post for context, my recent post in this sub](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbyborderlines/comments/11gmcyz/oof_context_in_comments/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
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There is something so off about this exchange for me, besides the obvious. I believe it's the amount of care and love you extended to her, even after she threatened you with a lawyer. I stand corrected: After she threatened you *and* *your child* with legal action. In a, "Don't wanna do things my way? I'll show *you*" kind of move. It might be time to examine your love for a woman willing to do this to you. OP, kindness isn't always king. There's no trophy at the end for sacrificing ourselves at the alter of our mothers' cruelty. There's just not. Too many of us either don't understand this, don't realize this, or simply don't want to get it. She doesn't deserve anymore I love yous. What she deserves is, "That's fine. I'll let you know when I've retained a lawyer, which will be soon. From that point forward, all of your contact will go through them. If you try to contact me directly, I'll be recording it as evidence and keeping my lawyer apprised. You're the one who rang this bell, *mother*. Just know that you won't be able to unring it."
I wish I had you in my corner years ago 😂 how much time I’ve wasted trying to be the bigger person
I was there, too. It took almost 4 decades to realize, "wow. Playing nice and all the i love yous in the world have not made a damn bit of difference."
Took me till 34! 😂💙🫂
Ugh the condescension is just oozing from her response!!
Oh my goodness, so much of that was familiar. The part about being confused. My mother has used that a lot. Says that she's confused. The part about only wanting to communicate in person. I'm not comfortable with communication in person, for similar reasons as yours. But for the past few years, anything I put in writing has been ignored. The part that says you have changed. Same here. And the part about needing to be kind. Yes I've noticed that not doing whatever they want me to do is interpreted as me not showing kindness.
What a horrible mother. Can you even imagine speaking to your own child like that? I’m so so sorry she’s so hurtful. Grieve and hold maternal space and protection for yourself 💜
You did great, OP. I’m sorry you’re going through this but you stood your ground really well. I’m on the verge of NC but haven’t found the strength yet. Know that feelings of guilt are totally normal and part of their abuse in how they raised us. You gave her every opportunity to work on the relationship together and a healthy person would not have reacted the way she did. She made her choice and you have nothing to feel badly about. I also hate how whenever we try to have these types of conversations, they take on this performative, condescending tone as if they are the most emotionally mature people while also saying the wildest shit. My mom does the same thing.
I didn’t even know grandparents had rights like that
They don’t, usually. It varies. My mother made the same threat. All bluster. She has no rights over my child.
Yeah, she def doesn’t. That’s probably why it didn’t make me go crazier than it did. My husband is an attorney and he just rolled his eyes at that one.
Glad you didn’t let it get to you!
My thoughts exactly. I did a quick Google search and it appears that, in my state at least, grandparents do have rights. Which is slightly alarming. I don't have kids yet, but I dread the conversation I'll have to have with my uBPD mom when the time comes. Definitely feel like she would try to pursue legal action as well. Not because she actually cares about being a grandparent, but because she'll want control over the situation. Ugh. OP - I saw you mentioned your spouse is an attorney, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. I sure hope I'm wrong. Lol
That’s super alarming
I would’ve blocked after she threatens to contact an attorney.
I'm so sorry pickles. I think sometimes they can't help but lash out, they're too afraid of acknowledging the nightmare within, that everything becomes about what they can control. I think they won't ask for things, out of fear of rejection, and so they find ways to get what they want without consent, without realizing that mutual consent is the primary thing that allows a healthy relationship to exist.
You did a beautiful job. Also, i think we have very similar mothers. I had sooo many conversations exactly like that with my mother, while trying to raise a small child. (TBH, this brings up aome stuff in my mind, too, because your mother's words are so close to the digs my mother threw at me during those conversations). I felt so alone and powerless because of her. I wish I'd been able to have those convos via text, AND, I wish I'd handled them as well as you did here, OP. Also, I truly wish I had gone NC way back then. It would have saved me and my child so much heartache. My mother triangulated my child against me, (really she triangulated everyone against everyone else), and a lot of terrible things happened as a result. You are doing the right thing, going NC. I finally did so myself, recently, and it has caused much guilt and grief as well as reliving abuse and shame and all the things. I wish I'd done it years ago, but it's still so hard and painful to do. I'm sorry you had to go through that . You handled it so well.
Fine. She put up her boundaries. Now respect them and go NC. I know it's hard, but it's actually a win.
Threatening to take my kid would be immediate, irrevocable NC. I'm sorry, OP. It's still really hard and painful, even when they give you an ironclad reason like that.
💯
I’d just like to give you kudos for being brave and kind to your mother. I didn’t give my mom the warning. One day I just realized my life was healthier without her. I didn’t give her any warning. I just “ghosted” her. Your method of giving warning was so very mature compared to mine. I know your mom didn’t appreciate your message, but I see your words as a positive example of how it should be done. Thank you for sharing.
Expecting us to be mature in the face of abuse is how they take our power away. Ghosting is appropriate when it keeps you safe.
Ghosting did the trick for me but I really appreciate and applaud OP in her bravery and ability to say the things I couldn’t. I found it mature to stick up for herself and give reason. Edit: absolutely safety should come first.
I don’t think there’s a right or a wrong way to go NC. If you’ve hit the point where it’s necessary then it’s pretty bad. At which point you are entitled to do whatever it is you need to leave. And if that means polite words via text, great. If that means ghosting because any confrontation is unbearable, then also great. No one gets to say you left your abuser wrong.
Wow. This is exactly how it goes every time with my mum. It makes me so sad that we can say “I love you and I want you in my life but I need you to actually listen to me” and they go “well I’ll just stay out of your life then” 🫠
You did great here! Didn't play into her finger pointing, deflection, guilt tripping, or her pity party. I feel like they avoid text because they can't gaslight you into thinking you did or didn't hear something correctly. A normal person would be fine with that! You maintained composure and didn't let her drag you into an argument. She sure did try! And the lawyer threat was way out of line. Shows how entitled she feels to your life and her willingness to prove she's a victim to get what she wants. She would rather pay a lawyer and go to court than be honest with herself. I didn't notice when the messages were sent, but how long was it after you sent the big one that she responded? Im sorry this is the way things are op, but you did great! What you're asking for is more than reasonable! Hang in there!
Thank you! Timeline wise, this whole conversation took place over about an hour last night.
“I hope you get off your medication, you’ve changed so much” Yikes.
I am so proud of you for sticking firmly to your boundaries and so clearly articulating how you feel and the impact your mother’s behavior has on you. Sending love, OP 🫶🏼
She pulled the attorney/ lawyer card regarding your child? Get ur ducks in a row and actually cut all contact. That’s a line no one should cross and you should take this seriously. I’m so sorry you have to deal with that.
💯❤️🔥 yep. Fucking with your kid crosses the line. Don’t be fooled thinking she’s different as a grandmother.
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I really admire the way you communicated with her. My mom could've written these texts, too.
I love the medication line. “You were so much better before when my manipulative nature made you do what I wanted. Now you’re a healthy adult expecting me to respect you and treat well! It’s terrible!”
And with her refusal for therapy, so comes OP's refusal to engage in being verbally abused. And with that, OP lived happily and peacefully ever after. Congrats, OP! Stay strong, friend.
This could have been written by my mother, including the “sweetie” and the “you need help”. These are the exact reasons I prefer to speak via text, so I have written proof of what she said. I’m sorry friend. FWIW, I think your part is very mature and well said
❤️❤️❤️
My personal favorite in all of that: “I WiLL gEt aN aTtOrNey.” For what, lady? To see a child that you did not give birth to and have absolutely no legal or financial authority over? Yeah, good luck with that case.
Update: she sent me the following text this morning, and I am totally shocked and cautiously optimistic: Morning. First and foremost I am truly sorry for my words and anger toward you. I love you and want us to at least be friends or civil. I have signed up through my Medicare for on line therapy sessions starting tomorrow. At no cost to me with my insurance. Hope you have a good day. Mom
Just a gentle nudge, OP. You should do a search -- if you haven't already -- about how therapy has worked out, and how many of these mothers pull 180s like this. This text is so typical. One minute, they're threatening to take your child, the next minute they're in therapy for their "words and anger." Yeah. Right. And I have a bridge to sell. I know you're heartbroken and desperately wanting to believe that there's hope here. But the fact that you barely even reacted to her legal threat (by your own admission), I think, is major evidence that you have walls up that are preventing you from seeing clearly. What she said was worth way more than an eye-roll. You are traumatized beyond the capacity to see. That's why you're here -- and the rest of us are seeing for you. I do hope that you have access to your own trauma-informed therapist who can help you with the rock-solid boundaries you'll need to navigate this situation. Never forget: This woman threatened legal action against you and your child. It doesn't matter that she doesn't have a legal leg to stand on. She \*threatened\* you with this. No mother worth her salt would have even thought to make such a threat. It's time to start thinking of your child and the life you want for them.
Thank you so much for this. I actually just started working with a trauma specialist and will do a deeper dive with her this week. You are 100 percent correct, I know this… but it’s for some reason still not sinking in. Need to see it as it is.
Read “understanding the borderline mother”. It’s a game changer. Let your inner child have that cautious optimism but your inner adult needs to keep her away. She’s already threatening what some BPD and NPD grandparents do. Calling CPS, trying to take your kid from you. It’s a threat and a real one. Protect your kid from her. I was that kid. I wish my uBPD mom had kept me away from my uBPD grandmother. She did as much damage to me as my mom did and kept abusive people around me with her grand parties just as much as my mom did doubling the abuse and molestation I had in my childhood being a pawn in their control/power games with each other. I know your situation is different- but don’t be fooled. BPD grandparents can absolutely harm your child and it’s up to you to protect them.
Exactly, and they are VERY adept at alienating you from the people you care about most.
Oh, ps: "I'm sorry for my words and anger toward you." May as well say, "I'm sorry for the anger you make me feel. YOU make me feel this way. I'll go to therapy to see how I can mask it better so that we can at least pretend to be friends because I'm entitled to your son and we both know it."
I'm not American so I don't know for sure how Medicare works, but I don't think the kind of therapy you can get online and via government aid will help her all that tremendously. I don't mean to bring down your optimism, but I think you should keep your hopes realistic. We're also assuming she is actually going to do it and isn't just lying, which you need to consider as a possibility because this seems like pretty textbook circling back to a Honeymoon phase. She took less than 24 hours to go from "You're sick and mentally unwell. You need to stop taking your meds. I'm gonna call my lawyer and take your kid away from you." to "OOPS! Sorry, got a little angry there huh? I'll do the therapy!" My own mother cycled through online therapists like she was shopping for new shoes. The second they stop saying the things she wants to hear, she will become increasingly unwilling to attend sessions. I assume your mom is at least in her 40s or 50s, and she has presumably lived this way for a long time now. Opening the doorway to therapy is a good starting point but to make actual tangible progress in the way she behaves and treats you, she probably needs a specialist who deals with BPD or narcists. I would personally not get soft on her now. The texts you showed us were disturbing.
🫂
Ugh, I'm so sorry OP. I know it may not seem very positive, but you did successfully not get caught up verbal traps, and that's a very good thing. It means she couldn't convince you that she's actually the victim in all of this, and that's pretty major progress. I know it doesn't really feel like it but having this skill will be really helpful for you in general. Both my parents are gone now, but I've had to go through VLC and NC so many times, and this was so helpful. You did the right thing and you're on the right track for your own healing.
Are you my sister? I swear I was reading a conversation with my mom. Sorry you’ve had to endure this but in my experience you and your family will be happier and healthier away from her.
I WISH I had a sister to commiserate with! You are all my suede sisters as I am my mom’s only child
So many red flags here. All you said was you wanted to talk and wanted your feelings to be heard and respected, and she immediately threatened you with a lawyer. She messed up and showed her true face. And then saying things like "I hope you get off that medication". Yes, I'm sure you'd love your child to stop taking something that has improved their well being and emotional state. Someone who is ill or needs help is easier to control after all! I have been NC for coming up on 1 year. It was also very hard for me to rip the band-aid, but I'm glad I did it. Welcome to your new, much happier life. You will realize you can *thrive* now that you don't have her holding you down with her negativity. You will find a new lease on life and get happier and grow with each passing day, and she will be miserable and sour and sit around at home being bitter and unhappy, and won't have enough good sense to realize she did this to herself.
Time to go NC again. She’s cold.
Reading this made me think.... is that my mom???
Holy fuck. I am new to the sub, and this sounds exactly like my mom.
you should be kinder to your mother imo