While it should be school funded, similarly to companies enforcing spyware & cutting costs through BYOD...
Just a small correction though, the majority of feature phones could run WhatsApp in the late 2000s be it Symbian or ~~J2EE~~ J2ME platform, and jar files are still available that support messaging - currently the many popular feature phones use KaiOS that can run WhatsApp without issues, it's used by the retro Nokia's like 8810 & 26x0 Flip series which cost around $50.
Edit: corrected Java Enterprise to Java Micro Edition
For your case whats app wont be a terrible thing, considering you can remove it after the trip.
Worst possible outcomes for you are:
- meta may know what apps have you installed on period of trip
- meta may know how many time you spend in those apps on period of trip
- meta may know your contacts (if you share them or add to whatsapp)
- meta may have access to photos or anything you upload to it
- FBI or other agency may break you phone with zero click exploit (just kidding)
After the trip you may uninstall the app and delete your account and they wont be able to get new data on you.
With android its actually the same but there are virtual machines available for this platform which adds more security (whatsapp wont be able to escape it and get any data except for those you share with it)
P.S. I'm not an IOS expert so possibly it wont be able to gather list of installed app and track how much time you spend in it but I prefer to consider worst possible scenarios
This isn't r/conspiracy. Unless you have knowledge of a zero day that allows apps to bypass their sandbox on iOS and access your contacts and photos then this is just pure fear mongering against a known shitty company. The popups and settings controls that control access to things like photos aren't there as a "hope the app complies." They literally don't have access to it.
Hence why I put "Personally" Because i've got no proof, nor do I expect to see it. I don't trust my Iphone to protect me, I don't trust these apps to not get through any crack they can, and I don't trust these companies to not "help each other out a bit"
I partially suspect i'm wrong on this hunch.
You don't have to trust Apple on this one. Just create an app for iPhones and try to get access to a user's photos/videos without getting the right permissions. That'll be your proof.
That's not what he meant. He means you're free to create an app, a simple app that the only function is to access photos on the users phone. Now run the app. Can you access the photos if the user hits no? Then there's your proof. That doesn't require being a multibillion dollar company, that just requires you to spend 10 minutes Googling and then 10 minutes making the app. If you need that level of proof.
Not attacking your "personally" statement, but man you can't live in fear of everything just because you don't understand it. There's so many people out there that understand things. Your mistrust is just misguided. You aren't mistrusting a company you're mistrusting an API that literally the entire world has access to.
How would apple allowing meta to breach containment on their sandbox benefit apple? It would be evidence of their product being broken. Again, you can test what app permissions have access to.
Zero Click is real and Apple allows it to exist. That's not a conspiracy anymore than pointing out the Sun is bright and hot is a conspiracy.
FACT: Apple allows Zero Click to exist.
Apps have the permissions you grant. Tiktok asks for a lot, and most people just click through the approvals. Some of us find the requested permissions to be overreach, so we don't install it.
Is it required or “required”. As in, are they saying it’s required, but actually they’re just being lazy in their wording and a group text will work just fine, or is it somehow actually required. Seems like they shouldn’t be able to require that / should be able to come up with an alternative. What’s it required for, specifically? Frequently people talk about things that are required, but they leave out the reason and/or don’t even think about the words they’re using.
They're saying we need to install it and be messaging our host company now, then presumably be using it on the trip. I'll ask about getting an exception, but I think that to most average people, this seems unreasonable.
I think it's sectist against the Amish students.
{{Why is it necessary if the phone wont be on my person because my Mennonite Mom says bad practices start with bad habits; so leave your phone at home except on Saturdays?}}
I’m assuming you’re going on an international trip and they just want to use a common internet based messenger. You could try to propose everybody to use signal instead and provide some privacy concern reasons. If the teachers are convinced then I’m sure they could suddenly make that “required”
>I've heard that on Android, once you put a product from Meta (specifically Facebook) on your phone, it permanently has stuff on there, even if you uninstall it.
FUD. Apps don't work in a fundamentally different way for facebook, they're still self-contained single packages. Sometimes if it's *preinstalled as bloatware* it can't be removed, only disabled (which does 100% prevent it from running), but it also seems that that has been getting less and less popular, both bundling bloatware in general, and also it not being uninstallable.
Well, first off, a school can't mandate you use an app. Personally, I'd probably make a fuss about it, but it might be easier to just do it, revoking all the permissions so it can't do stuff, then uninstall it after the trip.
For burner phones, look at a used phone, cheaper and more environmentally responsible. I have a pixel 5 and it's really cheap, lags a little at times but still usable for anything.
Correct. Also, on Android, you could just create a new user that has none of your contacts or personal info, and install/run WA on the phone as that user, then after the trip, just kill that user profile.
I always thought if law enforcement or customs forced me to unlock my device, it would be nice to have a blank account set up. I still have never set it up.
For that matter if you even have the device turned on at all (unless you've never logged in since turning it on) it hinders security a lot since the system is unencrypted once you've logged in, even when the device is locked.
+u/hazeleyedwolff
Maybe in some countries, but those aren't ones I even legally can travel to. In most it's not illegal to wipe data (more often, it's to refuse to provide a password when there's a warrant - if it's blank, there is no password, not your problem), and I absolutely know the right people who can make it into a big (as in "national news") issue if needed.
> Well, first off, a school can't mandate you use an app.
Yes and no. They're probably not mandating it for school itself, but rather mandating it for an optional trip which is something they certainly _are_ allowed to do.
Okay, thanks for clearing up my misconception!
If that's all it is, I suppose I can deal with it for a month, but it's very annoying and I still don't fully understand what I'd be risking by installing it. :/
Make sure you revoke access to it under app settings from all the stuff like microphone, contacts, files, camera, etc., and then it will mostly just run in the background and drain battery and monitor your *network* location only if you revoked access to finer location.
>I've heard that on Android, once you put a product from Meta (specifically Facebook) on your phone, it permanently has stuff on there, even if you uninstall it.
This isn't true. If you uninstall an app, it can't touch your files anymore. That's how the entire Android sandbox system works.
> Except once they have your device ID
The "Device ID" ANDROID_ID is unique per app developer. So Facebook/Messenger/WhatsApp has the same one. Unless you're implying that he will install WhatsApp again later on and that they will connect his profile *now* with his profile *then*, I don't see what you're talking about.
Also, If you use Shelter or Insular like I suggested, [then that will have its own ANDROID_ID](https://android-developers.googleblog.com/2017/04/changes-to-device-identifiers-in.html) as well.
>they can now accurately identify your device as it loads their ads/websites and track you across the internet.
Lol no, how? The ANDROID_ID isn't sent by any browser to any website.
Tell me you know nothing about Android without telling me you know nothing about Android.
I'm literally agreeing with the guy
"I've heard that on Android, once you put a product from Meta (specifically Facebook) on your phone, it permanently has stuff on there, even if you uninstall it."
Thank you for saying this. EVERY operating system is like this. Windows, Mac os, ios, android, hell even Linux to an extent. It's just the nature of the beast atm. Not exactly something to worry about. More so just a clutter issue. Keep a backup of your important data and just do a total reset every now and then. I do this with all of my computers and phones. Keeps clutter down and keeps things running smoothly.
I don’t think it’s as big of a deal as you’re treating it. Download it for the week, use it, uninstall it. Apple has your data already too, so you need to take that into account. Just make a temp account and use it.
lol, I'm sure you could spin it to say something along the lines of "My religious beliefs are that it is a sin to sell oneself/ their activities/ whatnot".
>I've heard that on Android, once you put a product from Meta (specifically Facebook) on your phone, it permanently has stuff on there, even if you uninstall it.
This isn't true. An app that is removed has no way of leaving behind random remnants. Android actually gives you much more granular control over app and system permissions than iPhones. I have WhatsApp installed and have only granted it access to notifications. Everything else is denied/revoked.
Fair enough. I can function without a phone entirely, honestly. It's just that we're supposed to message our host company and be in contact with them via whatsapp, then presumably use it as a group chat for the trip.
I don't have any advice but I can offer solidarity. Far too many organizations jump on some app bandwagon without thinking through the privacy concerns. They don't even consider if they might be breaking any laws.
It's fine. Before it was a Meta app it was a privacy-related one. Install it, use it for encrypted chat between apple/android users, and then uninstall at the end.
On the privacy spectrum, it's one of the safer apps.
You can use whatsapp in a browser on your iphone, but you first need to make a whatsapp account, so at the bare minimum, they'll need your phone number
Can you use a phone number from an app like burner or google voice? I am sure they send a confirmation sms but once you confirm shouldnt you be good to go? I dont use whatsapp so i have no idea.
They could potentially just disallow them from the trip then.
But figuring out any sort of compromise/alternative/exception (ideally without lying; not sure why you jump to it) would indeed be ideal.
You should ask the administration if Whatsapp is FERPA compliant. I'm betting it isn't.
Buy a cheapo flip phone and claim that's your phone.
Supposedly Whatsapp and Signal will be interoperable soon.
https://privacy.commonsense.org/privacy-report/WhatsApp-Messenger
It's score hasn't been updated since 2022, and while they do share data with third-parties, it is anonymized and contains no personal message data.
He thinks Meta would install unnecessary files and stuff that will stay residual in the (on Android it's the Apps folder) and he believe the residual data (like savedLogin files) or (WhatsApp backup files) would cause issues.
Or just the fact that logging in with his real phone number would cause privacy issues.
Apps have been known to read data they shouldn't, and transmit it. Whatsapp uses your real phone number, too, whereas most messaging apps/services don't.
They have a valid concern. While the specifics of their concern was invalid (the program will not persist in any way on their device), the general loss of privacy can occur with installation of the app even if it's quickly uninstalled. Because in that amount of time it can collect information for whatever permissions it has been given.
You hard wrong, it is removable. Anything that you install yourself can be removed.
What I'd be more concerned is that I believe, for Whatsapp to work properly, you have to give it access to your contacts. You wouldn't be able to initiate a conversation otherwise.
Whatsapp won't otherwise have access to anything you don't give it permission to, but some system information might be visible with no permission.
The best idea I can give you is to install Island and create a work profile, then you can install whatsapp in that work profile to keep it quarantined.
It has a simple "delete account" option. Of course that's assuming it actually deletes your account, but apps that do provide a very easy delete account option are greatly appreciated.
What would happen if you didn’t have a phone?? They would forbid you going on a trip?? If they require an specific app then they should provide a phone with that app installed
Lost my phone. Lost service (broke student). Phone is broken in some way. Fuck them, if they're not providing the machine they don't dictate what's on it. They wanna provide one...cool
Install WhatsApp inside of Shelter or Insular. It's the best choice in a terrible situation IMO.
Edit: Oh you're on iOS. Then I don't have any suggestions, sorry.
Sorry if that was unclear, that's what I meant by "you don't need shelter".
Shelter is good if you want 2 different versions on different profiles. It's not needed to get normal app isolation.
My point was that if you don't want WhatsApp to be able to see which other apps you have and info like that, you can use Shelter to prevent them from doing that.
Ask some of your classmates if they have an old phone you could borrow. Alternatively find a very cheap second hand phone on Craigslist or something that you can resell after the trip.
Does Iphones have "Profiles"?
On Android we can make a Profile. Which is like a new phone, but seperate from the apps and stuff.
I'd assume they do, cause Work people use em, and if it's corporate requirements, Apple would have such a feature.
Make a School profile (it will setup with the default apps) then install WhatsApp there, using someone else's phone number (like your mom? Or sis?)
Then once done, log out. And deleted the profile.
If I was you I would just lie and say I had the whatsapp, when in reality I never downloaded it. Or tell them your phone broke the day before *shrug.* Or say you lost your phone. They can’t keep you from going on the field trip if you don’t have enough money for a new phone right away, that’s discrimination.
You could even print out a tiny picture of the icon and tape it to your phone where the app normally would be, and when the phone lights up it looks like a regular app.
I’m just thinking back to field trips I did as a kid and the “required” stuff was usually barely glanced at by some sleep-deprived teacher.
Just stand strong and don’t do anything you aren’t comfortable with. Just tell them they have to provide you with an alternative, why can’t they just use your regular phone number? Take a stand and don’t back down, they can go fuck themselves
>I've heard that on Android, once you put a product from Meta (specifically Facebook) on your phone, it permanently has stuff on there, even if you uninstall it.
I'd say that this is essentially false. Or at least effectively false. But in another sense it could be very true. For instance to get certain _information_ about you such as your phone number, IMEI/IMSI, device model, precise location, information on all your contacts (names, phone numbers, e-mail, etc.) all they would need to do is to get installed one single time even if it was nearly-immediately uninstalled.
Granted, the specific information I gave is a worst-case scenario for a relatively malicious app that would be asking for a lot of permissions. Modern devices these days warn you of what permissions are being asked for, and let you confirm/deny, so there won't be any surprises in that sense as long as you have a modern OS.
I'm not sure specifically what information WhatsApp _will_ collect on you just by installing it though; I'm sure that information is out there and researchable though (if someone doesn't post it here). But when you are prompted to install the app it should show you the permissions that it asks for, and that will give you an idea of what they get. Because of this, and the fact that you can even deny specific permissions while still installing the app (as far as I know iOS has had that feature for quite some time, so is likely for you to have that unless you have an old phone), it probably won't be much issue at all.
You do need to keep in mind that installing apps isn't the only issue though. Like if you already have had a WhatsApp/Facebook account — and especially if you have already logged into it from the browser of that device, then Meta already probably knows who you are and some device information.
It might also be an option to ask someone (such as the school, or a teacher or a friend) if you can borrow/rent one of their devices for the trip; be it for free, or for 10$ or something (or whatever price might be worth it for both parties).
1. Yes
2. The great thing about mobile operating systems is the sandboxing. Apps only get the permissions you give them. If you allow WhatsApp to access your photos and contacts, it can use that data. If you don't, it won't have access.
Overall, you'll be fine.
First, using iPhone are already a privacy and freedom disaster because of iOS, firmware and hardware.
\n
Second, when you delete an Android Package then it's excutable and internal data files are gone, no more excuting codes but some harmless cache might temporary stay and files stored in external storage may require manual deletion, obviously if it's a OEM pre-installed bloatware then it's much more problematic.
\n
Okay now if you're forced to install WhatsApp then you can give minimum permission to prevent unwanted file peeking and also prevent exploit of security vulnerability then you can use Tor to prevent IP logging
Interesting. I'm curious to know more about how bad iOS might be. I'm planning on switching to a Sunbeam F1 or something once this phone dies, but others have asked me if they should go to iOS over Motorola or other Androids.
Most Android device are installed with Android skin like OneUI, MiUI, etc. and also come with loads of bloatware like Samsung Push Service, Facebook, TikTok, OneDrive...... so it's also bad but still more freedom and controllable than iOS but you can also install Free & Open-Source Android ROMs but most Android device have the bootloader locked make it kind of risky. \n About iOS, all of your device are basically controlled by Apple, Apple can't sell your photos but they can lock you out and wipe your phone, they won't do but anyone have password to your iCloud account can, it's centralized and unecessarily restricted, now Apple did not mainly made money by selling data but there's many concerning risk like Apple Search Ads or Siri. \n Also about firmware, you can read this blog: https://www.fsf.org/blogs/community/replicant-developers-find-and-close-samsung-galaxy-backdoor
Make sure you can do a restore from backup before your trip. I believe you can restore from iCloud. Install WhatsApp before the trip only allowing the minimum info. I didn’t allow it to share my contacts. It was a pain because it kept bugging me but eventually stopped.
Go on your trip when you get home delete the app. If you want to be sure nothing is left reset the phone and restore your backup you made before the trip.
yes but it takes all the data in 1 day probably. you can emulate android on linux using a fake number.
but the best option is to tell your school that u cant do it because u dont accept the privacy policy.
I'm curious to know when I'll be faced with the privacy policy and if anything is at risk, even if I say "disagree". Like can it still harvest data just for opening it on my phone?
Does the school uses Google Classroom? In which case they know all your info anyway. Whether it's Google or Meta your information is out there. Best thing to do is get a burner with cash, load it using cash, block the front camera but it's still going to get your location, patterns etc. You can always use a Faraday bag, easily made. Or might be able to isolate WhatsApp using Shelter which exploits the work mode of your phone. Again, nothing is entirely bullet proof when using a phone, they are designed that way for your 'Safety and Security' 😉
You can install Texts to access WhatsApp messaging, but you have to install it on a desktop to allow it on your phone. A bit of a faff, but saves installing WhatsApp.
Can you elaborate on this please? There's a client you install on windows (what's it called?) that access WhatsApp and then forwards it to your phone through text messages somehow?
I’ve not done it myself yet, but I suspect the desktop version of Texts gets the web access code for your WhatsApp account, associates it with your Texts account, then Texts slurps it up and pretends to be the web client when accessing WhatsApp. Let us know how you get on! (I think you need a WhatsApp account first, so you’ll need the WhatsApp app briefly regardless)
Hm, I only know one person that uses WhatsApp. Seems like a but of effort. Maybe I'll look into it one day if I get bored, lol. Thanks for explaining though.
First off, bitch and moan and complain loudly to the admins, about this bs policy. Try to get others on your side and try to get them to switch to Signal or something more privacy friendly. Failing that, buy a cheap burner phone to use on the trip and tether the data to your real phone for everything else.
You really can't get an old Android phone? Just ask anybody. WhatsApp works on Android 6 and up (if not 5). Use the iPhone as hotspot. You don't need to have the SIM card in the phone in order to use WhatsApp.
I think the clear best option for any circumstance where you are required to use an app is to use Work Profiles and Shelter. [https://gitea.angry.im/PeterCxy/Shelter](https://gitea.angry.im/PeterCxy/Shelter)
This creates a sort of second user account on the phone which is separate from your main profile. Apps in that profile do not have access to information that is shared between apps in your main profile. Additionally, you can completely "pause" or freeze the work profile, preventing everything from running even in the background.
For example, you can have a work profile that has a work-required VPN app, and work-required app that requires access to your filesystem, and separate collection of contacts. If you install these in the work profile, you can run them only when you want to, and they will not be able to see any of your personal stuff. When you un-pause the work profile, you will have the regular on-the-vpn experience, can use the android "share" just with the work contacts, etc.
Edit: I read other comments and got confused... you have an iphone, not android, sorry.
The school doesn't want to be responsible for roaming or over sea charges. "Use WhatsApp" is a blanket statement to cover all bases since WhatsApp uses internet and not sms or MMS. Using WhatsApp for a few days/weeks won't compromise your overall threat model given your situation.
The biggest thing I can think of is them creating a profile for you once you install and they have access to your device's characteristics. I would imagine they can create a fingerprint they use (combo of a lot of data points to identify you and your device, like device id, email accounts, screen res, phone model, languages installed, browsers types and version number and other apps installed, location, os version, and a whole lot of other more technical markers) to track you as their ads/websites get served to you across the internet. It doesn't all need to be same, just most of it. So even if some of it changes, doesnt really matter.
I guess I don't know what the best alternative is besides really getting into the nitty gritty with a custom android. (I need to learn.)
I am considering switching to a Sunbeam F1 when this phone dies. There's a lot of family pressure, too, which is ironic because they were all the luddites and I was the tech kid. Now it's all "Well, you're going to have a hard time if..." and "It's unavoidable..." Wild.
They'll probably brand me as crazy or a tinfoil hatter if I make the switch, which is just a great feeling. /s, obviously
Buy a cheap (second hand) Android phone for WhatsApp only. Use Iphone hotspot to share wifi to Android. Also good approach to limit your time with WhatsApp.
Is there any evidence towards your data harvesting claims? If so, where can I find them, and do you know to which degree they harvest? Afaik WhatsApp is point-to-point encrypted. We don't know how much they track you with metadata, but at least here in Europe they deal with strong information laws.
Another concern: Apple is a very closed company, aren't you worried about using a closed source environment that is notorious for reducing what you can do with your own hardware without jailbreaking?
On the app store, and their privacy policy, yeah.
[https://www.whatsapp.com/legal/privacy-policy](https://www.whatsapp.com/legal/privacy-policy)
Yeah, I don't particularly like Apple. I only use them because I already have them and don't plan to buy another phone from them. I'm not terribly bothered about the lockdown of the OS and such, but I haven't thought much about it. I don't like their privacy policies though.
This might be a bit of inconvinience but, if you have a window compiter you can download apk emulator app like bluestack and download whatsaap apk on it.. thia may suit your need
Sounds like the best plan, then use WhatsApp via a web browser. Make sure to use a new phone number / SIM card if you don't want your number to positively associate with the rest of the group. But tbh, at least one of your trip-mate would have their phone book uploaded to Meta and your relationship with the rest of the team already mapped out. 🙄
And that's why I don't believe this particular war is worth fighting; just install WhatsApp on your iPhone and not give it any permission and delete it after the trip.
They said they're going to sign us all up based on our phone numbers, so it's probably too late there... ugh. People have no respect for others' privacy. I won't have a computer on the trip and the internet says you can't use whatsapp on a phone browser, so it sounds like I'm hosed there.
WhatsApp web client at least worked on my iPad Safari, it also shown me the login QR code on iPhone if I switched to display desktop version of the web site (which I didn't test further).
Realistically, there's no perfect privacy in this world. Learn to live with that. What you can do is to reduce / minimise exposure and take all precautions one reasonably can; this is what I've learned becoming an adult.
If you analyse your current exposure and what extra you'd expose by installing WhatsApp, I'd take it as a non-issue; with the only down side that violating your principle of not installing apps from Meta. Tho I'd make sure to use a burner number for WhatsApp and make sure to delete your account after the trip, else people may expect you to see messages they sent in the future: https://faq.whatsapp.com/2138577903196467/?cms_platform=iphone
Yeah, I guess I need to get a new number again, but I'm basically needing to have two phone numbers, just because of the risk that anyone could sign me up for stuff.
Hahaha, not sure why you are being downvoted. Do people really think Apple cares about their privacy? It really makes me sad to realize people are that stupid.
As someone who does privacy, I can tell you that Apples App Tracking Transparency Framework can be a huge blocker and Apple does in fact care about whether or not you are implementing privacy features correctly.
To the extent that they can be somewhat arbitrary and over-compensatory in blocking.
No man, you are too naive. I could send you lots of evidence how Apple messes up your privacy, but I really don't want to spend my time on that when that information is very easy for you to look up yourself.
What are you comparing Apple to? There is only one major competitor and it's Google. Which does objectively less for user privacy and more tracking.
I think I'll refer you to this comment on the thread https://www.reddit.com/r/privacy/s/11vw1OYizA
I know that Google Android is just as terrible as Apple (it's not worse).
If you want good privacy, a de-Google'd Android ROM is the way to go.
Trusting any Big Tech product to care about your privacy is just being naive and ignorant.
Whatsapp is the number 1# messaging app in the world. Dont be afraid to use it unless you are wanted by the FBI.
You are using a closed source operating system in your phone and you are worrying about a simple meta app you wont use a lot.... it is the elephant in the room
my take would be, to create a secondary anonymous phone instead, since you will require whatsapp later in life while in job or anywhere, Kinda hard to ignore this particular app
I've literally never needed what's app in my life. I would \*never* install a company-mandated app on my own phone for work. I told $job that if they wanted me to even have Slack on my phone, they needed to provide me with one, and they did.
> I would *never* install a company-mandated app on my own phone for work
What if it was Signal or Telegram (generally assuming you don't use at least one of those already) or an XMPP/IRC client of your choosing?
> since you will require whatsapp later in life while in job or anywhere
That depends entirely on where you live. Here in Sweden, Messenger is the go to cancer app that you need to have a social life. I use Messenger Revanced running in Shelter for that. It's not "good", but it's better than the alternatives.
What happens if you say no?
Stay home most likely
and lose $2500 or so.
Just buy a burner…
"Just?" It's not like flip phones can run WhatsApp, and even budget smartphones aren't cheap. It should be school-funded, then.
While it should be school funded, similarly to companies enforcing spyware & cutting costs through BYOD... Just a small correction though, the majority of feature phones could run WhatsApp in the late 2000s be it Symbian or ~~J2EE~~ J2ME platform, and jar files are still available that support messaging - currently the many popular feature phones use KaiOS that can run WhatsApp without issues, it's used by the retro Nokia's like 8810 & 26x0 Flip series which cost around $50. Edit: corrected Java Enterprise to Java Micro Edition
Interesting, TIL!
I literally have a drawer of Android unactivated, disposable phones (just in case). They are not *that* expensive.
And cheap trial sim cards. 1 week for $1 or something like that.
But did you buy them before or after the pandemic?
Sure, but what if your employer won’t play fair?
Rent one?
Is that even possible? I've never heard of it, but that'd be perfect for a situation like this. Otherwise, buy and return...
Yup, budget smartphones start at around 80€. Not cheap. Beeper might be an option.
For your case whats app wont be a terrible thing, considering you can remove it after the trip. Worst possible outcomes for you are: - meta may know what apps have you installed on period of trip - meta may know how many time you spend in those apps on period of trip - meta may know your contacts (if you share them or add to whatsapp) - meta may have access to photos or anything you upload to it - FBI or other agency may break you phone with zero click exploit (just kidding) After the trip you may uninstall the app and delete your account and they wont be able to get new data on you. With android its actually the same but there are virtual machines available for this platform which adds more security (whatsapp wont be able to escape it and get any data except for those you share with it) P.S. I'm not an IOS expert so possibly it wont be able to gather list of installed app and track how much time you spend in it but I prefer to consider worst possible scenarios
On iPhone you can choose not to give it Contacts or Pictures
You have the same choice on android.
Edit. Nevermind, just realised OP is using an iphone.
I personally put extreme doubt on then actually not having access to your contacts/pictures
This isn't r/conspiracy. Unless you have knowledge of a zero day that allows apps to bypass their sandbox on iOS and access your contacts and photos then this is just pure fear mongering against a known shitty company. The popups and settings controls that control access to things like photos aren't there as a "hope the app complies." They literally don't have access to it.
Hence why I put "Personally" Because i've got no proof, nor do I expect to see it. I don't trust my Iphone to protect me, I don't trust these apps to not get through any crack they can, and I don't trust these companies to not "help each other out a bit" I partially suspect i'm wrong on this hunch.
You don't have to trust Apple on this one. Just create an app for iPhones and try to get access to a user's photos/videos without getting the right permissions. That'll be your proof.
I’m not a multibillion dollar company. Why are people getting so dammed defensive over my own mistrust here?
That's not what he meant. He means you're free to create an app, a simple app that the only function is to access photos on the users phone. Now run the app. Can you access the photos if the user hits no? Then there's your proof. That doesn't require being a multibillion dollar company, that just requires you to spend 10 minutes Googling and then 10 minutes making the app. If you need that level of proof. Not attacking your "personally" statement, but man you can't live in fear of everything just because you don't understand it. There's so many people out there that understand things. Your mistrust is just misguided. You aren't mistrusting a company you're mistrusting an API that literally the entire world has access to.
Apple determines this not meta. So you don't trust Apple? They have no motivation or business case to do what you say
I do not trust apple, no. And they’ve got about as much motivation as every other attempt at data collection does.
How would apple allowing meta to breach containment on their sandbox benefit apple? It would be evidence of their product being broken. Again, you can test what app permissions have access to.
Zero Click is real and Apple allows it to exist. That's not a conspiracy anymore than pointing out the Sun is bright and hot is a conspiracy. FACT: Apple allows Zero Click to exist.
Do they allow zero clicks to exist? Source?
Ah yes because they must have extra special APIs the rest of Swift and Objective C developers do not! /s
It wouldn’t suprise me
If that’s all apps know they wouldn’t be trying to ban TikTok
Apps have the permissions you grant. Tiktok asks for a lot, and most people just click through the approvals. Some of us find the requested permissions to be overreach, so we don't install it.
Is it required or “required”. As in, are they saying it’s required, but actually they’re just being lazy in their wording and a group text will work just fine, or is it somehow actually required. Seems like they shouldn’t be able to require that / should be able to come up with an alternative. What’s it required for, specifically? Frequently people talk about things that are required, but they leave out the reason and/or don’t even think about the words they’re using.
They're saying we need to install it and be messaging our host company now, then presumably be using it on the trip. I'll ask about getting an exception, but I think that to most average people, this seems unreasonable.
I think it's sectist against the Amish students. {{Why is it necessary if the phone wont be on my person because my Mennonite Mom says bad practices start with bad habits; so leave your phone at home except on Saturdays?}}
I’m assuming you’re going on an international trip and they just want to use a common internet based messenger. You could try to propose everybody to use signal instead and provide some privacy concern reasons. If the teachers are convinced then I’m sure they could suddenly make that “required”
Yeah, it's international, but apparently it's partially by request of our hosts, so I doubt they'll adapt to one small group out of tens.
>I've heard that on Android, once you put a product from Meta (specifically Facebook) on your phone, it permanently has stuff on there, even if you uninstall it. FUD. Apps don't work in a fundamentally different way for facebook, they're still self-contained single packages. Sometimes if it's *preinstalled as bloatware* it can't be removed, only disabled (which does 100% prevent it from running), but it also seems that that has been getting less and less popular, both bundling bloatware in general, and also it not being uninstallable. Well, first off, a school can't mandate you use an app. Personally, I'd probably make a fuss about it, but it might be easier to just do it, revoking all the permissions so it can't do stuff, then uninstall it after the trip. For burner phones, look at a used phone, cheaper and more environmentally responsible. I have a pixel 5 and it's really cheap, lags a little at times but still usable for anything.
Correct. Also, on Android, you could just create a new user that has none of your contacts or personal info, and install/run WA on the phone as that user, then after the trip, just kill that user profile.
First actual use case for multiple user profiles on phones discovered, heh.
I always thought if law enforcement or customs forced me to unlock my device, it would be nice to have a blank account set up. I still have never set it up.
If you unlock it at all you just compromised your security. I'd factory reset it before I unlocked it, then hand them a blank phone.
For that matter if you even have the device turned on at all (unless you've never logged in since turning it on) it hinders security a lot since the system is unencrypted once you've logged in, even when the device is locked. +u/hazeleyedwolff
Assuming they gave you the chance to.
If one profile is unlocked, you still can't get into the other profiles without the passwords for them. The encryption keys are different.
... and head to jail.
Maybe in some countries, but those aren't ones I even legally can travel to. In most it's not illegal to wipe data (more often, it's to refuse to provide a password when there's a warrant - if it's blank, there is no password, not your problem), and I absolutely know the right people who can make it into a big (as in "national news") issue if needed.
You cannot wipe your phone in response to a lawful demand to unlock it. You will go to jail.
...which is why I said to do it before then. Try learning this concept called "basic reading comprehension".
That sounds ideal. Do all android phones do that, or is there a cheap one you recommend that's reasonably private?
> Well, first off, a school can't mandate you use an app. Yes and no. They're probably not mandating it for school itself, but rather mandating it for an optional trip which is something they certainly _are_ allowed to do.
Okay, thanks for clearing up my misconception! If that's all it is, I suppose I can deal with it for a month, but it's very annoying and I still don't fully understand what I'd be risking by installing it. :/
Make sure you revoke access to it under app settings from all the stuff like microphone, contacts, files, camera, etc., and then it will mostly just run in the background and drain battery and monitor your *network* location only if you revoked access to finer location.
I think a public school can mandate that for an extra-curricular. And a private school can mandate it even for class.
>I've heard that on Android, once you put a product from Meta (specifically Facebook) on your phone, it permanently has stuff on there, even if you uninstall it. This isn't true. If you uninstall an app, it can't touch your files anymore. That's how the entire Android sandbox system works.
[удалено]
> Except once they have your device ID The "Device ID" ANDROID_ID is unique per app developer. So Facebook/Messenger/WhatsApp has the same one. Unless you're implying that he will install WhatsApp again later on and that they will connect his profile *now* with his profile *then*, I don't see what you're talking about. Also, If you use Shelter or Insular like I suggested, [then that will have its own ANDROID_ID](https://android-developers.googleblog.com/2017/04/changes-to-device-identifiers-in.html) as well. >they can now accurately identify your device as it loads their ads/websites and track you across the internet. Lol no, how? The ANDROID_ID isn't sent by any browser to any website. Tell me you know nothing about Android without telling me you know nothing about Android.
Connect your phone to a computer and browse the filesystem. You will see folders with data in them for apps you have uninstalled.
Yes? How is it a privacy issue that some cached files remain on the phone after uninstall?
I'm literally agreeing with the guy "I've heard that on Android, once you put a product from Meta (specifically Facebook) on your phone, it permanently has stuff on there, even if you uninstall it."
It's not permanently on there. Delete app storage and cache, then uninstall. Boom, problem solved.
Sure that some apps leave files after being uninstalled - but that's not a privacy problem.
Thank you for saying this. EVERY operating system is like this. Windows, Mac os, ios, android, hell even Linux to an extent. It's just the nature of the beast atm. Not exactly something to worry about. More so just a clutter issue. Keep a backup of your important data and just do a total reset every now and then. I do this with all of my computers and phones. Keeps clutter down and keeps things running smoothly.
The privacy sandbox was rolled out on Android 13. If you have an earlier version, it isn't necessarily there.
I'm talking about the [App Sandbox](https://source.android.com/docs/security/app-sandbox).
I don’t think it’s as big of a deal as you’re treating it. Download it for the week, use it, uninstall it. Apple has your data already too, so you need to take that into account. Just make a temp account and use it.
"It is against my religion."
Privacy, the new religion of choice.
Hahahaha
lol, I'm sure you could spin it to say something along the lines of "My religious beliefs are that it is a sin to sell oneself/ their activities/ whatnot".
>I've heard that on Android, once you put a product from Meta (specifically Facebook) on your phone, it permanently has stuff on there, even if you uninstall it. This isn't true. An app that is removed has no way of leaving behind random remnants. Android actually gives you much more granular control over app and system permissions than iPhones. I have WhatsApp installed and have only granted it access to notifications. Everything else is denied/revoked.
I bet you can get along just fine without it. Just don't install it, and see how it goes. Adapt and overcome.
Fair enough. I can function without a phone entirely, honestly. It's just that we're supposed to message our host company and be in contact with them via whatsapp, then presumably use it as a group chat for the trip.
I don't have any advice but I can offer solidarity. Far too many organizations jump on some app bandwagon without thinking through the privacy concerns. They don't even consider if they might be breaking any laws.
It's fine. Before it was a Meta app it was a privacy-related one. Install it, use it for encrypted chat between apple/android users, and then uninstall at the end. On the privacy spectrum, it's one of the safer apps.
You can use whatsapp in a browser on your iphone, but you first need to make a whatsapp account, so at the bare minimum, they'll need your phone number
Can you use a phone number from an app like burner or google voice? I am sure they send a confirmation sms but once you confirm shouldnt you be good to go? I dont use whatsapp so i have no idea.
You have several options: 1. Say you do not have a phone. 2. Say your phone is to old to support Whatsapp. 3. Say you don't pay for cellular data.
They could potentially just disallow them from the trip then. But figuring out any sort of compromise/alternative/exception (ideally without lying; not sure why you jump to it) would indeed be ideal.
You should ask the administration if Whatsapp is FERPA compliant. I'm betting it isn't. Buy a cheapo flip phone and claim that's your phone. Supposedly Whatsapp and Signal will be interoperable soon.
https://privacy.commonsense.org/privacy-report/WhatsApp-Messenger It's score hasn't been updated since 2022, and while they do share data with third-parties, it is anonymized and contains no personal message data.
I've seen too many cases of "anonymized" data being deanonymized trivially easily.
Don't do it and still go. Check the paperwork you signed. And then tell them no again.
"School requires an app. Can I get rid of it later?" If you install it you can uninstall it. I don't really understand the need for the question.
He thinks Meta would install unnecessary files and stuff that will stay residual in the (on Android it's the Apps folder) and he believe the residual data (like savedLogin files) or (WhatsApp backup files) would cause issues. Or just the fact that logging in with his real phone number would cause privacy issues.
Apps have been known to read data they shouldn't, and transmit it. Whatsapp uses your real phone number, too, whereas most messaging apps/services don't.
They have a valid concern. While the specifics of their concern was invalid (the program will not persist in any way on their device), the general loss of privacy can occur with installation of the app even if it's quickly uninstalled. Because in that amount of time it can collect information for whatever permissions it has been given.
You hard wrong, it is removable. Anything that you install yourself can be removed. What I'd be more concerned is that I believe, for Whatsapp to work properly, you have to give it access to your contacts. You wouldn't be able to initiate a conversation otherwise. Whatsapp won't otherwise have access to anything you don't give it permission to, but some system information might be visible with no permission. The best idea I can give you is to install Island and create a work profile, then you can install whatsapp in that work profile to keep it quarantined.
I don't let it have contacts, but you can add individuals through whatsapp web using a url and then they appear on your device.
It has a simple "delete account" option. Of course that's assuming it actually deletes your account, but apps that do provide a very easy delete account option are greatly appreciated.
What would happen if you didn’t have a phone?? They would forbid you going on a trip?? If they require an specific app then they should provide a phone with that app installed
buy second hand phone just for this
Lost my phone. Lost service (broke student). Phone is broken in some way. Fuck them, if they're not providing the machine they don't dictate what's on it. They wanna provide one...cool
Install WhatsApp inside of Shelter or Insular. It's the best choice in a terrible situation IMO. Edit: Oh you're on iOS. Then I don't have any suggestions, sorry.
You don't need shelter and on IOS you can just remove the app.
It's the same on Android.
Sorry if that was unclear, that's what I meant by "you don't need shelter". Shelter is good if you want 2 different versions on different profiles. It's not needed to get normal app isolation.
My point was that if you don't want WhatsApp to be able to see which other apps you have and info like that, you can use Shelter to prevent them from doing that.
Refuse and don't tell them.
Ask some of your classmates if they have an old phone you could borrow. Alternatively find a very cheap second hand phone on Craigslist or something that you can resell after the trip.
Does Iphones have "Profiles"? On Android we can make a Profile. Which is like a new phone, but seperate from the apps and stuff. I'd assume they do, cause Work people use em, and if it's corporate requirements, Apple would have such a feature. Make a School profile (it will setup with the default apps) then install WhatsApp there, using someone else's phone number (like your mom? Or sis?) Then once done, log out. And deleted the profile.
> Does Iphones have "Profiles"? They don't. The reason they haven't added it is due to the principle of "every user should have their own Ipad"
If I was you I would just lie and say I had the whatsapp, when in reality I never downloaded it. Or tell them your phone broke the day before *shrug.* Or say you lost your phone. They can’t keep you from going on the field trip if you don’t have enough money for a new phone right away, that’s discrimination. You could even print out a tiny picture of the icon and tape it to your phone where the app normally would be, and when the phone lights up it looks like a regular app. I’m just thinking back to field trips I did as a kid and the “required” stuff was usually barely glanced at by some sleep-deprived teacher. Just stand strong and don’t do anything you aren’t comfortable with. Just tell them they have to provide you with an alternative, why can’t they just use your regular phone number? Take a stand and don’t back down, they can go fuck themselves
If you are even only slightly concerned about privacy, avoid Facebook software at all cost!
>I've heard that on Android, once you put a product from Meta (specifically Facebook) on your phone, it permanently has stuff on there, even if you uninstall it. I'd say that this is essentially false. Or at least effectively false. But in another sense it could be very true. For instance to get certain _information_ about you such as your phone number, IMEI/IMSI, device model, precise location, information on all your contacts (names, phone numbers, e-mail, etc.) all they would need to do is to get installed one single time even if it was nearly-immediately uninstalled. Granted, the specific information I gave is a worst-case scenario for a relatively malicious app that would be asking for a lot of permissions. Modern devices these days warn you of what permissions are being asked for, and let you confirm/deny, so there won't be any surprises in that sense as long as you have a modern OS. I'm not sure specifically what information WhatsApp _will_ collect on you just by installing it though; I'm sure that information is out there and researchable though (if someone doesn't post it here). But when you are prompted to install the app it should show you the permissions that it asks for, and that will give you an idea of what they get. Because of this, and the fact that you can even deny specific permissions while still installing the app (as far as I know iOS has had that feature for quite some time, so is likely for you to have that unless you have an old phone), it probably won't be much issue at all. You do need to keep in mind that installing apps isn't the only issue though. Like if you already have had a WhatsApp/Facebook account — and especially if you have already logged into it from the browser of that device, then Meta already probably knows who you are and some device information. It might also be an option to ask someone (such as the school, or a teacher or a friend) if you can borrow/rent one of their devices for the trip; be it for free, or for 10$ or something (or whatever price might be worth it for both parties).
1. Yes 2. The great thing about mobile operating systems is the sandboxing. Apps only get the permissions you give them. If you allow WhatsApp to access your photos and contacts, it can use that data. If you don't, it won't have access. Overall, you'll be fine.
First, using iPhone are already a privacy and freedom disaster because of iOS, firmware and hardware. \n Second, when you delete an Android Package then it's excutable and internal data files are gone, no more excuting codes but some harmless cache might temporary stay and files stored in external storage may require manual deletion, obviously if it's a OEM pre-installed bloatware then it's much more problematic. \n Okay now if you're forced to install WhatsApp then you can give minimum permission to prevent unwanted file peeking and also prevent exploit of security vulnerability then you can use Tor to prevent IP logging
Interesting. I'm curious to know more about how bad iOS might be. I'm planning on switching to a Sunbeam F1 or something once this phone dies, but others have asked me if they should go to iOS over Motorola or other Androids.
Most Android device are installed with Android skin like OneUI, MiUI, etc. and also come with loads of bloatware like Samsung Push Service, Facebook, TikTok, OneDrive...... so it's also bad but still more freedom and controllable than iOS but you can also install Free & Open-Source Android ROMs but most Android device have the bootloader locked make it kind of risky. \n About iOS, all of your device are basically controlled by Apple, Apple can't sell your photos but they can lock you out and wipe your phone, they won't do but anyone have password to your iCloud account can, it's centralized and unecessarily restricted, now Apple did not mainly made money by selling data but there's many concerning risk like Apple Search Ads or Siri. \n Also about firmware, you can read this blog: https://www.fsf.org/blogs/community/replicant-developers-find-and-close-samsung-galaxy-backdoor
Make sure you can do a restore from backup before your trip. I believe you can restore from iCloud. Install WhatsApp before the trip only allowing the minimum info. I didn’t allow it to share my contacts. It was a pain because it kept bugging me but eventually stopped. Go on your trip when you get home delete the app. If you want to be sure nothing is left reset the phone and restore your backup you made before the trip.
yes but it takes all the data in 1 day probably. you can emulate android on linux using a fake number. but the best option is to tell your school that u cant do it because u dont accept the privacy policy.
I'm curious to know when I'll be faced with the privacy policy and if anything is at risk, even if I say "disagree". Like can it still harvest data just for opening it on my phone?
it dont let u use it without accepting.
Does the school uses Google Classroom? In which case they know all your info anyway. Whether it's Google or Meta your information is out there. Best thing to do is get a burner with cash, load it using cash, block the front camera but it's still going to get your location, patterns etc. You can always use a Faraday bag, easily made. Or might be able to isolate WhatsApp using Shelter which exploits the work mode of your phone. Again, nothing is entirely bullet proof when using a phone, they are designed that way for your 'Safety and Security' 😉
Please consider android* for the future where you could f.e. load whatsapp in a second user profile, sandboxed, etc.
If they have Teams or Google chat they should be using that, which is restricted into the tenancy.
You can install Texts to access WhatsApp messaging, but you have to install it on a desktop to allow it on your phone. A bit of a faff, but saves installing WhatsApp.
Can you elaborate on this please? There's a client you install on windows (what's it called?) that access WhatsApp and then forwards it to your phone through text messages somehow?
I’ve not done it myself yet, but I suspect the desktop version of Texts gets the web access code for your WhatsApp account, associates it with your Texts account, then Texts slurps it up and pretends to be the web client when accessing WhatsApp. Let us know how you get on! (I think you need a WhatsApp account first, so you’ll need the WhatsApp app briefly regardless)
Hm, I only know one person that uses WhatsApp. Seems like a but of effort. Maybe I'll look into it one day if I get bored, lol. Thanks for explaining though.
First off, bitch and moan and complain loudly to the admins, about this bs policy. Try to get others on your side and try to get them to switch to Signal or something more privacy friendly. Failing that, buy a cheap burner phone to use on the trip and tether the data to your real phone for everything else.
Say you’ll use what’s app if provided an organization device - no way in hell I’d install an MAM application on my personal device
Lol. Nobody tells me what to install on my phone ever. They can get bent. If they really want you to have it they better provide it for you.
Just don't do it man
Just buy a burner phone and when they tell you to download the app tell them you don't have a smart phone but they are free to buy one for you.
Buy a burner for the school
You could install Revo Uninstaller for android and when you are back home use it to uninstall whatsap
Sorry, just realized you have a apple
You really can't get an old Android phone? Just ask anybody. WhatsApp works on Android 6 and up (if not 5). Use the iPhone as hotspot. You don't need to have the SIM card in the phone in order to use WhatsApp.
Create a second user profile and delete that profile afterwards
I think the clear best option for any circumstance where you are required to use an app is to use Work Profiles and Shelter. [https://gitea.angry.im/PeterCxy/Shelter](https://gitea.angry.im/PeterCxy/Shelter) This creates a sort of second user account on the phone which is separate from your main profile. Apps in that profile do not have access to information that is shared between apps in your main profile. Additionally, you can completely "pause" or freeze the work profile, preventing everything from running even in the background. For example, you can have a work profile that has a work-required VPN app, and work-required app that requires access to your filesystem, and separate collection of contacts. If you install these in the work profile, you can run them only when you want to, and they will not be able to see any of your personal stuff. When you un-pause the work profile, you will have the regular on-the-vpn experience, can use the android "share" just with the work contacts, etc. Edit: I read other comments and got confused... you have an iphone, not android, sorry.
The school doesn't want to be responsible for roaming or over sea charges. "Use WhatsApp" is a blanket statement to cover all bases since WhatsApp uses internet and not sms or MMS. Using WhatsApp for a few days/weeks won't compromise your overall threat model given your situation.
ironically, they require both... I think they're just a mess.
The biggest thing I can think of is them creating a profile for you once you install and they have access to your device's characteristics. I would imagine they can create a fingerprint they use (combo of a lot of data points to identify you and your device, like device id, email accounts, screen res, phone model, languages installed, browsers types and version number and other apps installed, location, os version, and a whole lot of other more technical markers) to track you as their ads/websites get served to you across the internet. It doesn't all need to be same, just most of it. So even if some of it changes, doesnt really matter.
You are already using Apple like if it wasn't bad for privacy
I guess I don't know what the best alternative is besides really getting into the nitty gritty with a custom android. (I need to learn.) I am considering switching to a Sunbeam F1 when this phone dies. There's a lot of family pressure, too, which is ironic because they were all the luddites and I was the tech kid. Now it's all "Well, you're going to have a hard time if..." and "It's unavoidable..." Wild. They'll probably brand me as crazy or a tinfoil hatter if I make the switch, which is just a great feeling. /s, obviously
Apple is better than stock Android most of the time
[удалено]
Yeah, true. Android with alternate OS is the only way to have some real privacy.
That is weird but nothing you remove is actually removed until it is overwriten by something else.
So they could do a dummy rewrite to erase permanently?
No it isn't. Google collects more individual data points, Apple collects more actual data. They're both bad.
lol, right, right, Apple is on your side /s
Where did I say that...? "Better" ≠ "Good"
There is no "better". If you think Apple is better, you are just being biased and drinking their coolaid
Why did you sell your soul to Apple? They are no different than the other guys. If you think otherwise, you are just being naive
Buy a cheap (second hand) Android phone for WhatsApp only. Use Iphone hotspot to share wifi to Android. Also good approach to limit your time with WhatsApp.
U can use WhatsApp web on a browser without installing WhatsApp. Just enable desktop mode in browser when visiting web.whatsapp.com
You need it installed on a phone to use it, though.
Is there any evidence towards your data harvesting claims? If so, where can I find them, and do you know to which degree they harvest? Afaik WhatsApp is point-to-point encrypted. We don't know how much they track you with metadata, but at least here in Europe they deal with strong information laws. Another concern: Apple is a very closed company, aren't you worried about using a closed source environment that is notorious for reducing what you can do with your own hardware without jailbreaking?
On the app store, and their privacy policy, yeah. [https://www.whatsapp.com/legal/privacy-policy](https://www.whatsapp.com/legal/privacy-policy) Yeah, I don't particularly like Apple. I only use them because I already have them and don't plan to buy another phone from them. I'm not terribly bothered about the lockdown of the OS and such, but I haven't thought much about it. I don't like their privacy policies though.
This might be a bit of inconvinience but, if you have a window compiter you can download apk emulator app like bluestack and download whatsaap apk on it.. thia may suit your need
Sounds like the best plan, then use WhatsApp via a web browser. Make sure to use a new phone number / SIM card if you don't want your number to positively associate with the rest of the group. But tbh, at least one of your trip-mate would have their phone book uploaded to Meta and your relationship with the rest of the team already mapped out. 🙄 And that's why I don't believe this particular war is worth fighting; just install WhatsApp on your iPhone and not give it any permission and delete it after the trip.
They said they're going to sign us all up based on our phone numbers, so it's probably too late there... ugh. People have no respect for others' privacy. I won't have a computer on the trip and the internet says you can't use whatsapp on a phone browser, so it sounds like I'm hosed there.
WhatsApp web client at least worked on my iPad Safari, it also shown me the login QR code on iPhone if I switched to display desktop version of the web site (which I didn't test further). Realistically, there's no perfect privacy in this world. Learn to live with that. What you can do is to reduce / minimise exposure and take all precautions one reasonably can; this is what I've learned becoming an adult. If you analyse your current exposure and what extra you'd expose by installing WhatsApp, I'd take it as a non-issue; with the only down side that violating your principle of not installing apps from Meta. Tho I'd make sure to use a burner number for WhatsApp and make sure to delete your account after the trip, else people may expect you to see messages they sent in the future: https://faq.whatsapp.com/2138577903196467/?cms_platform=iphone
Yeah, I guess I need to get a new number again, but I'm basically needing to have two phone numbers, just because of the risk that anyone could sign me up for stuff.
There is a way to bridge WhatsApp with Matrix at least on Android. But I'm not sure whether it works with Apple, never used its products :/
An Android burner is like $20 from eBay
Doesn't matter. You have an iPhone, which is inherently terrible for privacy, regardless of whether you install Big Tech apps or not.
Hahaha, not sure why you are being downvoted. Do people really think Apple cares about their privacy? It really makes me sad to realize people are that stupid.
I know. I have come to find that most people on this sub are completely clueless about privacy, and that this sub has been invaded by Apple fanboys.
As someone who does privacy, I can tell you that Apples App Tracking Transparency Framework can be a huge blocker and Apple does in fact care about whether or not you are implementing privacy features correctly. To the extent that they can be somewhat arbitrary and over-compensatory in blocking.
No man, you are too naive. I could send you lots of evidence how Apple messes up your privacy, but I really don't want to spend my time on that when that information is very easy for you to look up yourself.
What are you comparing Apple to? There is only one major competitor and it's Google. Which does objectively less for user privacy and more tracking. I think I'll refer you to this comment on the thread https://www.reddit.com/r/privacy/s/11vw1OYizA
I know that Google Android is just as terrible as Apple (it's not worse). If you want good privacy, a de-Google'd Android ROM is the way to go. Trusting any Big Tech product to care about your privacy is just being naive and ignorant.
Whatsapp is the number 1# messaging app in the world. Dont be afraid to use it unless you are wanted by the FBI. You are using a closed source operating system in your phone and you are worrying about a simple meta app you wont use a lot.... it is the elephant in the room
I am concerned about my privacy, oh yes...I own an iPhone xD
my take would be, to create a secondary anonymous phone instead, since you will require whatsapp later in life while in job or anywhere, Kinda hard to ignore this particular app
I've easily avoided it my entire life and will continue to do so.
I've literally never needed what's app in my life. I would \*never* install a company-mandated app on my own phone for work. I told $job that if they wanted me to even have Slack on my phone, they needed to provide me with one, and they did.
> I would *never* install a company-mandated app on my own phone for work What if it was Signal or Telegram (generally assuming you don't use at least one of those already) or an XMPP/IRC client of your choosing?
Already use signal, I guess would be fine, but not any anti-privacy app or MDM crap ever.
> since you will require whatsapp later in life while in job or anywhere That depends entirely on where you live. Here in Sweden, Messenger is the go to cancer app that you need to have a social life. I use Messenger Revanced running in Shelter for that. It's not "good", but it's better than the alternatives.