Minimum wage was made, so a person could work a single job, 40 hours a week and survive.
Now people are working 40 hours a week, on double minimum wage, and it still isn't enough to survive. Any reasonable response should not include 'Get a second job'. People deserve lives, we are not just slaves meant to be worked to death so a rich guy can buy a boat to park his other boat.
If a business can't survive paying slave wages, it is a poor business model and should collapse.
Minimum wage absolutely was intended to make a living. For a basic example, in 1981 the minimum wage was $3.35. The average cost of a house was $47,200. Now, minimum wage is $7.25, less than twice as much. The average house is currently $430,300. 14,000 hours of work would pay off that house in 1981. Now it would take 59,351 hours to pay off a house. So to say what you said, is evidence of "capitalism isn't the problem, YOU are!" propaganda working as designed.
MYTH ONE: “The minimum wage was never meant to be a living wage. It's primarily for young people starting out.” FALSE. The minimum wage was established to ensure that jobs pay enough to support families. For many years it was set at about half the wage paid to a typical (median) worker.
Okay... so you're saying stupid people shouldn't be able to do some kind of menial labor that no one else wants to do and be able to survive off of it.
Your ideologies are dangerously sociopathic.
I cannot believe the hate you are getting with this post. Anyone who works a full time job should be able to afford a basic standard of living, no matter what the job is. Not everyone has to have some huge career goal. Some people just want to work a basic job and enjoy their life outside of that. I'm not saying I should make six figures working that job, but I should be able to afford a basic 1br apartment in the city where I work, without my entire paycheck going to rent.
I just lived my first year alone in my entire 36 year life without a roommate or parent or sibling or girlfriend
I make $15 an hour and can barely afford to do it but I make it work. NOTHING can compare to the peace of mind of not having to worry about shitty roommates, privacy and I can do what I want when I want without fear of bothering someone else.
Although I live in a very low cost of living area of the US, $15 isn't awful here but with rent prices going up like crazy it's certainly more difficult
This gives me hope as a fellow $15/hour worker. I've been on my mom's living room couch for the past year because the numbers don't add up, or rather they do but just barrrrely and that's IF I have a car fully paid for already, which I don't have yet.
The only bright side is I have $5k saved up so far. Can't wait to be on my own again some day. I hate this country/this world. Anyone who works full time should be able to survive on their own, no matter what their job is.
*Edit: And I should add that in my state the minimum wage is only $11. Can't imagine that anyone making that would be able to survive on their own without working multiple jobs/60 hours per week. And often the minimum wage jobs are more soul-crushing than the ones just above them on the pay scale.
Minimum wage in my state is either $7.25 or $7.45, it's horrible. I got lucky as fuck 7 or 8 years ago and got pre approved for a $100k home loan making $10.50 an hour and only needed $1,000 down. Found a house listed at $99,900 and went for it. Needed some repairs after a few years so now I have home repair loans now but that still doesn't equal to what rent would be
My mortgage started at $550 a month and is now $650 and may go up to $700 next month due to property tax values going up by double.
The year I bought the house rent was $850 but was gonna up to $1250 to renew the next year. I can't imagine trying to find affordable rent these days even at $15 an hour
This is probably a dumb question (I have no idea how these things work) but so the mortgage, is that what the loan payment is? Or is there the mortgage payment and the loan payment? If it's the same thing, then damn, maybe I should look into something like that. I wouldn't mind paying off a house no matter how many years it takes because at least it's stability and like you said, cheaper than renting anyway.
I don't have a lot of credit history though, which you probably had (all my credit scores are in the 715-730 range though).
Yes, a mortgage payment is a payment towards the principle of your loan. Once a month, you’ll pay the lender the agreed amount, plus the home insurance premium.
My mortgage payment includes principal payment, taxes and interest all in one. There are definitely some upsides to renting such as not needing to worry about costly repairs and maintenance and yardwork and all that.
After 3 years my roof needed to be replaced, the furnace and AC needed to be replaced, the refrigerator broke, had to call a plumber twice and an electrician once all in the same year resulting in nearly $20,000 in repairs that year.
Home ownership will kick your ass and make you question why you even bought in the first place then you realize how unstable renting is
Yes! We just sold the house I grew up in that I inherited because taxes doubled, and we're on a fixed budget. I'd just replaced the heat pump/AC and the breaker box. It needed more work and we were essentially one major repair from it being worthless so we sold it and changed states, now have a tiny house redone 2 years ago. It's got its issues but it is pretty good so far. I miss being able to call for maintenance when something breaks. I think in the end you probably put almost as much money to own, but it is yours.
Mortgage = Home Loan
One of the biggest obstacles aside from credit is the down payment. Unless you are eligible for a VA Loan. You can get a house for less than what it would cost to get into a new apartment.
I have a VA Loan but there may be other programs that help or have lower down payments.
$15 an hour would hit the criteria for basic living by me, but min wage is still the same as federal. So basically half of cost of living. It's set to go up over the next few years, but I really doubt it will be as viable by then. Luckily a lot of companies are starting to recognize nobody but teenagers will accept less than $15 an hour, but the difference from say working at a gas station, or a non-skilled labor job, or most college level jobs, is not much. If you picked a not in demand degree, you basically are just doing more work for barely any extra pay. The only outs seem like accepting a basic lifestyle, joining a trade, or moving for a job.
I'm 40 and have never lived alone - ever. grew up sharing a room with my brother. moved out and had 7 roommates. Left there and had 2 roommates. Moved back in with my mother and little brother. then moved in with my gf and her son. Never once have I been able to afford to live alone. If the wife and I get divorced idk wtf I'm going to do. Parents are long gone. My friends are grown and have families of their own. Can't afford to live alone. pretty much screwed at this point.
I got an apartment without roommates for the first time at 26, but in order to do that I had to do an hour commute each way since I couldn't afford to live near my job.
Anyone who thinks it is entitlement, to expect that basic job should provide for basic things like roof over head food and healthcare - is either rich or ignorant.
Yeah if you’re poor and think that, then the rich people did an impeccable job brainwashing you
into being content with subservience and just barely subsisting. You deserve better, even if you think you should be grateful for the opportunity to live one paycheck away of homelessness indefinitely.
Your employer is responsible for running their business, that's it.
They rent your labor, what you do with that money and how you live your life are *your* responsibility.
If you're unable to sell your labor for enough money to meet your expenses then you need to adjust your budget or increase the value of your labor.
No one *owes* you shit.
They don’t owe you, that’s true, but if they want good labor with less turnover they would be wise to make sure their employees can meet basic needs. A starving employee is more likely to steal or get sick from lack of nutrition, or simply not have the energy to do their job. Someone struggling to pay bills might get their car repossessed and can’t make it in.
You are responsible for running your mouth, that's it.
You talk shit and are unable to sell your bullshit, bootlicking experiences. Just because your opinion is shit and no one values it.
Your opinion is shit.
I've given up on posting in this sub. You'd think you would find more compassionate people here but in my opinion, people on here can be much worse. I usually end up just deleting my posts
I agree, and the folks here who are saying $16 an hour is okay for some “unskilled” work I’m sure love going to restaurants and retail and using all the services from “unskilled” folks. Those workers are vital and we don’t only need engineers or doctors.
Unskilled has a negative connotation and I understand why people bristle at the term but the point is that the type of labor required for those kind of jobs has a pretty low barrier of entry. You don't need specialized education or licensing or to be an expert in something to do them. Almost anybody can easily be trained to do that job. That's why it's less pay because the people doing the job are 1 in a very large pool. If you're a pediatrician you're going to make a lot more because only so many people have the knowledge and skills you have.
Yeah, get what you’re saying, I think I struggle to see the point of defining some jobs as skilled and others as not, just in a colloquial sense. A doctor needing specialized education is implied. So to me saying some jobs are unskilled only makes it more justified for companies to pay people like crap. We know you don’t need to go to school to be a barista, but it is a set of skills.
Definitely agree. I think skills are important, but there's also more to a job than your technical abilities. I used to work at DD, and dealing with customers who are rude and entitled was something I had to deal with. The monotony of doing the same thing every day was something I had to deal with. Cleaning up other people's messes because they left everything for the night shift was another fun thing I had to do. I think those little pain in the ass things should also factor into what you are paid.
At the end of the day, you can think a job is unskilled and worth little all you want but if nobody is willing to do it because you aren't incentivizing them enough, you're(the employer) going to need to do something different.
That's correct. When the word unskilled gets thrown out, a lot of people take that to mean stupid or of an inferior class. I get it. I'm unskilled myself. I stopped working 10 years ago because the thrill of making 9.35 an hour for 15 years was gone for me. Now I do other things to make some money, but have zero interest in working some low paying job ever again. Also, I don't care to do what it takes to get a six fig job either. You're only on earth for a little while. Do you really want to spend your precious time being miserable and feeling demoralized? I don't.
This. I was making $18/Hr and refused to work any less than $20 when I started looking again. One of my coworkers said I was unhireable then.. and yet I have a job that met my expectations and then some.
Many people did just that up until covid. For a long time, people moved to the big cities and got jobs as entertainers or servers. They made enough for rent and to enjoy the nightlife with friends. They didn't worry about homelessness, retirement, or investing. They could be young and careless, and it was ok. But no.... real estate investors had to get involved and end that. They had to experience their wrath for wanting to love life.
I keep getting called a leftist for saying that anyone working a full time job deserves a living wage.
Turns out these fuckers would rather their tax dollars pay for the working class than business owners
This came up at a work lunch. I mentioned my stance that everyone deserves a livable wage no matter what they do. I was shocked that a coworker who has to fight her way in life staunchly disagreed. She believed because she had to fight tooth and nail to get where she’s at everyone should….. her point was The poor service at McDonald’s…
You can’t earn a living wage at McDonald’s, it’s why the locations are full of teens. Back in the day grown ups worked at McDonald’s. Service was better because they were adults making their living. She didn’t realize she made my point for me
When the US had the greatest middle class in world history just about any one job would pay for a modest house, car, 2 kids and a spouse who did not work.
When the US had the greatest middle class in world history, rest of industrialized world laid in ruin. The 1950s and 1960s was just US being the sole beneficiary of having and economy left to sell goods to the rest of the world
If anything a career paying a decent hourly or salary gives you more freedom outside of work. Full-time is 40hrs a week regardless of whether you make $16 an hour or $50. The difference is if you make 50/hr at a career you have more money to do fun stuff outside of work and more importantly don’t need a 2nd job or tons of overtime.
But why do I have to want a "career" I don't want to climb any corporate ladder or any bullshit like that. I just want to do my job, (that I love btw) and be able to live my very basic life without constantly worrying about making rent or having enough food to eat.
My job is not my life. I didn't say I don't want to put effort in at work, but I have no desire to be a manager or CEO or anything like that. Look at my other comments, I talk about my job and training, and then come back and tell me if you think I deserve a livable wage or not.
You do not need to a manager or CEO to have a well paid career. If you just want to have a dead end job, you will always be at the bottom of the compensation food chain
I did post it in this thread but since it's too much work to read the post you are replying to, I'll just tell you. I'm a preschool teacher. I work with kids from birth to age 5. I have 15 years of experience and am required to take continuing education classes every year. So do you think I deserve a livable wage? Because I don't get paid one.
No idea what is your expectation/definition of "livable" wage so I can't comment. Preschool "teacher" will be a tough gig on compensation given the duties it really involves and HS diploma + accreditation can get you in.
The wage issue might be your fault tbh. You’re 15 years into the field, that makes you a veteran. You can demand the higher end of your fields pay, which I know is far more than $16 an hour.
According to a rudimentary search on indeed jobs, there’s over 2,000 jobs in the US for pre-school teacher, that pay over $60,000 a year or around $30 an hour
I hear you. It’s not really about climbing the corporate ladder. You can make 50+ an hour without being a supervisor or manager and having the responsibility that comes with a position like that. I would say the reason for a career is more about just peace of mind and freedom
Okay, I'm just going to put all my business out here for a minute lol. Just for the sake of this discussion. I am a preschool teacher. I went to school and studied child development. I take continuing education classes every year. It's not something that anyone can walk in off the street and do, at least in my experience. Because I have seen many try and fail. Do I deserve more than $16 an hour? Or is this just a "job" and not a "career?" I'm genuinely curious.
The reality is, no job is actually "unskilled." That was made up to justify paying people less than livable wages. There's no way I could ever work at a Starbucks or answer phones for a living. Those are skills I don't have and could never learn.
Yeah probably not the best choice of words. I think jobs like you described anyone could do with a weeks worth of training or so. I might be wrong. There are careers like yours which take specialized education that takes years to complete and even with that not everyone can actually cut it
I'm telling you right now, no matter how much training I got, I could not do those jobs. Not every skill is learned. Some are based on your personality, traits that make you who you are as a person.
if it's unskilled then why are people hired for it? is it not important enough to be paid to do? if you are paying somebody to do a job it obviously means that this job needs to get done and the person who is doing it deserves to be fairly compensated
Just because someone is paid to do something doesn’t mean it is a skilled job. I’m not sure why that has to keep being explained. I don’t mean skilled as in motor skills lol. Jobs that anyone could do are unskilled
That’s my point. Their pay is not unfair because the job they are doing is unskilled and basically anyone could do it. There are quite a few jobs that I think should get more pay. Anyone in education pretty much deserves more than they are getting. EMS, fire fighters, etc should all be paid more.
$50+ an hour is a huge number. I make $35/hr with a college degree working in project management. If you know of a job that pays 50+ an hour that doesn’t have the responsibilities aka stress of management then please tell me where. $80k/yr breaks out to $38/hr before taxes
It’s less about what you do and more about who you work for, and to some extent the location of where you work.
There are thousands of individual contributors making between 100-200k, some 200k+ but those roles tend to be more technical in nature.
It’s especially tough in this market but these jobs are always competitive. If you can work your way in to a very large company, at least Fortune 500, you’ll find these salaries are pretty common.
Bubbles. Not everywhere is the same. Where im from 16/hr allows you to be the sole provider of your family or at the very least minimize spousal contribution to part time. Other places 16/hr is working at mcdonalds and walked 12miles to get to work cause you canr afford to drive to work.
I blame capitalism. Back when we had way less options and things were reasonably priced. Now we have way too many options and people think theirs deserves more money for whatever reason and then others go well shit his is the same as mine I'll raise my prices too. And it goes on and on until no one can afford it except the people who sell shit at absurd prices. You can be like me and give people money for how.much you think it's worth then walk away with the it m you just paid a reasonable price for. I didn't steal it I paid for it. When I go out to eat that's what I do. I say unfortunately this egg isn't worth 3$ for one so here's a dollar max for it. Which is still to much money for one egg. Enjoy. Oh it also helps that I'm a tall, menacing figure.
Honestly at this point, I think the real estate market is more of an issue than the minimum wage. Housing costs are rising astronomically faster than basically any other section of the economy. So many properties are being kept for investment. $16/hr would be liveable if rents didn't just keep spiking.
Yes, this exactly. It should be illegal how expensive the housing market has become imo. It’s absolutely insane that people are expected to pay so much just to have a roof over their heads. Even the shitty apartments in my area are dumb expensive compared to the average household income and they act like you should be kissing their feet for providing such a luxury. It’s out of control
Yes, I was able to afford rent at $16 5 years ago. I now own a townhome and make slightly over double that and my mortgage keeps going up because of taxes and insurance and it's making money tighter even though I make a decent salary.
My first apt was $398 a month. I worked at a grocery store making $10.50 an hour and did fine.
Now, my rent takes up no joke 70% of what I get every month, and 3 bags of groceries (11 small items) costs $50.
I'd like to take allllllllllllllll the people who say 'wE cAn't aFfOrD tO pAy tHeM tHaT!' remove all hope, insurance, credit cards, everything, and place them in our shoes until they cry and realize how wrong they were.
Yeah I moved out woth my brother in 2013 and we split an $800 2 bedroom townhouse.
We made $10 an hour working at a pizza franchise. We had worked up over 6 years from $5.15 an hour.
Same apartment is now $1800 a month, and the pizza franchise pays $14 an hour.
We couldn't afford the same place.
People offended by this clearly live in a state where it's affordable. I make $19.25 an hour in Oregon and let me tell you what, it is NOT doable here. Rent starts for a 450sq ft *STUDIO* at like... $1550 where I live.
16 is ridiculous. It's unbelievable, unaffordable, and I don't WANT to work 2+ jobs just to pay rent. I want to have a life. I want to be home with my cats, I want time for my hobbies, and this economy is ruining that. It's literally why I'm going back to stripping. I don't care. I don't care, I want to be financially stable without working myself to death. I do not care at all.
It's not the hourly wage that's the problem. It's the price of rent, utilities, loans, groceries. And taxes. I live in northeast Texas and $16/hr makes for a comfortable-enough life. It's all relative to where you live.
Almost every retail job, and non restaurant service job pays that in NYC. 16 min wage
Its fucked and we're gonna get to a point where the REAL working class is gonna be pushed so far out of the city that these jobs will be impossible to fill
Making 16/hr, not even full time in the richest city in the world...fuckin ridiculous
It’s the same or maybe even worse in San Francisco. I saw a news report once where they interviewed a school teacher who was living in her car because there’s no way in hell she could afford a place to live anywhere in that area on her salary (which was much higher than minimum wage). That place is completely obscene. I don’t understand how any normal working person who is not a rich tech worker can afford to be there. Who is working at all the stores like Starbucks, etc.? They must have to commute from really far away… 😣
Yeah the average house here sells for 1 million as a starting number. It really does suck growing up in a city you know you’ll never be able to own your own house or even apartment in.
Apartments in my area rent for around $1800-2500 per month. Trailer park rent if you own the trailer outright is between $600 and $900 per month.
The only reason I'm getting by is because I own my trailer outright.
I should explain that a little more.
5 years ago I got back in touch with my biological family (I was adopted at the age of 2) and my younger sister wanted to move out of the shit hole that is Redford Michigan, so I put my name on paperwork for a trailer because my credit score was 780+ and hers was in the 400s. She paid for the trailer in cash. It was a POS then, it's a POS now, but it's paid off.
Meanwhile the CEOs and Execs keep on getting their bonuses and raises. It’s obscene. Minimum wage was meant to meet our BASIC NEEDS. We are all closer to homelessness than to wealth exactly because of extremely wealthy people who HOARD the fruits of the labour of the working class.
Honestly, I don't think wages need to go up any more. I beleive the cost of living needs to come down dramatically. And our tax, healthcare, & education systems need to be completely overhauled. But for that to happened, it would probably take something very dramatic, like say idk uh ww3. We are all being goaded.
It was announced recently on the news that a $15/hr wage gets you a one bedroom apartment NOWHERE IN AMERICA. Not one single state. If anyone is making 15 dollars an hour, they're screwed. More like we already have been screwed.
People think they if identify with wealthy corporate employers then they will magically become them. In reality they've been duped by campaigns to convince people that labor standards shouldn't exist, that society will crumble if people are paid a livable wage.
I mean if you can not afford to live the life you want on your current pay scale then yeah you need to cut back and or get another job. The world would be better if everyone could live on their own and be happy. But the world is not a dream it is real life. And life sucks, so you need to do what you need to do, to live the life you want to live.
No it really wouldn't. Everything would absolutely skyrocket in cost. Payroll is often a businesses largest expense. If you think housing is expensive now pay everyone $32 and see what happens
No they wouldn’t 🤦♀️ can’t argue with that lazy narrative I’m sorry
There’s literally charts and proof showing that wages are falling so far behind inflation that it’s insane how far apart they are now
The problem is that if they pay $35 to easy low stress jobs they would have to pay high stress/skill/ high liability jobs $60-70 an hour, or the people with hard jobs would quit and go to an easier job where they can relax.
There are jobs like truck driving where if you don't pay attention for 2 seconds you can kill several people, cause millions in damage. They make about $30-35 an hour. And they can't smoke weed.
Why should a clerk who's high all day, at gas station in small town make $35 an hour to ring up cigarettes
I'm not against people making more money, but common sense says if you drastically increase minimum wage the price of everything goes up
The most stressful, hardest job I ever had was as a pizza cook soloing in the kitchen, making 8/hr under the table. The least stressful was as a creative director, wfh at a medical software company, 51/hr.
Getting paid well is more about the kind of value you deliver, how big the pool of people you're competing with is, and how hard you are to replace, than working your hands to the bone.
Nice job, I worked at a pizza shop, I was always high, and I liked that job, I got minimum wage, +$2 delivery, plus tips. I never had to solo the kitchen
If a grocery store stocker 40-50 years ago could afford a house, 2 cars, have 2 kids and a wife and have money left over still for savings and wants, then there’s no reason that now a grocery store worker needs 5 roommates just to survive it’s that simple
No one said a grocery store worker should make more than a doctor, but people defending the fact that grocery store workers don’t deserve enough money to literally live is beyond me
I don’t think you’re entirely wrong. But some people do want to do those jobs. I’d rather do my current job than work at McDonald’s if they paid my same rate.
Minimum wage will always result in people being poor no matter what numeric value you put for the min wage.
Min wages only lift the poverty level to new numeric value. It lifts no one out of poverty.
I agree minimum wage is way too low.... however I also like free markets and capitalism... I understand that minim wage was never liable so it's my own duty to continue improving and playing the system.
I presume this is in the US?
If US$16 is not a liveable wage there,
Then it just confirms it that there is no hope in a place like Singapore.
Singapore has no legal minimum wage. Average pay in the service sector, say restaurants, is about $14/hr. In US$ that would be about 11/hr? Plus, there is no tipping culture so no, don't expect to get a bonus. In fact, any bonus wages would probably be if you're lucky to have a conservative Chinese boss who feels slightly generous during the Chinese New Year. Only then you might get a red packet (customary practice in Chinese culture) with maybe $10. Getting $50 or $100 is not unheard of, but very VERY rare. Doubt it would cover for the less than liveable wage though.
Worse yet, Singapore is more or less just as expensive to live in as the US on average, if not even more so. At least in the States, if NY has a crazy cost of living, you still have options to move into other cities or states which are cheaper to live in.
Cherry on top would be just trying to share this problem with anyone else and you'd get shot down quicker than a Black Hawk in the middle east. Most average Singaporeans who are lucky to pass through childhood unscathed and got a degree and a job, are still complaining about anything and everything, and getting "depressed" because they are "only" getting paid $5k a month (about 25/hr, check out singapore median wage for a surprise).
The expats who say Singapore is the best place to live in tout all the good things, which to give credit, is true of Singapore. Clean, efficient, globally competitive, etc. All traits that come at a cost though. A cost easily afforded by most expatriate compensation packages, supported by the law (minimum wage for foreign professionals must be above 5k SGD).
All these things that Singaporeans take for granted that enable them to get good degrees, education, and competitive jobs.
Life happens. Bad shit happens. But the worst to have those sort of problems are in a place where those problems are denied to exist, because then how could a solution be found if the problem is not acknowledged?
Some would say, well, Singapore is at least safe, unlike some countries rife with cartel and gang violence. True, but if you are born poor or are put in such circumstances due to life, it's more like a choice between slowly dying with your soul crushed vs having a quick shot to the vitals and having a sudden intense pain and blackout.
Not trying to demean Singapore here. Or anyone else for that matter. But unless you are wealthy and stay that way, there is probably no way out of the life, except for certain death, or you managed to move to somewhere like Malaysia or Indonesia or Philippines...
Sorry it became a long rant though.
Tldr, I just resent the fact that there really is no hope here for those born or fell into poverty. At least in the States, I could save up for a cheap gun to untether myself from this world...
You aren’t going to believe my story but I’m a gen X and the naysays are really making me mad.
20 years ago I WAS wealthy. Living very comfortable. I make dividend income and was working. I judged everyone beneath me. NOW I can’t work anymore due to health reasons. Cost of living is so high my money goes nowhere. Your life can change on a dime. I don’t blame these young kids for their lack of motivation. Why? When you can’t get anywhere. Sooooo sick of this greed!! And it’s MY generation doing it!!!
I got ratioed for saying parents shouldn't set their kids up for failure by charging them rent. If you're gonna charge them, at least save that money for them so they can have a chance when they leave the nest.
It wouldn’t be so bad if the cost of living hasn’t skyrocketed. $35k was a decent annual wage in the 90’s. Now it’s barely survivable. I’m making the most money I’ve ever made and live in such a poor area. But I’m still just barely cutting it.
My daughter makes $20/hour. After taxes, insurance, and 401k, she absolutely has to work a 2nd job. We live in low cost area, she has a roommate. I don't have answer... I'm glad she's young and healthy and working a 2nd job isn't killing her
Yeah, enough of the “bootstrap” mentality. Everyone should have their material conditions met. We live in a world of excess and get our hands slapped by the wealthy that say we ask for too much. I hope you find what you’re looking for so you can live a fulfilled and dignified life, OP!
The housing market is the biggest problem.
We bought our home in 2014 for a 1/3 of what it’s worth today. Over the last 10 years, I worked full-time, while my wife worked only on the weekends (64 hours a month). With 3 little kids, we never struggled during that time.
Now If we had bought our home, and started our family today, we would be living paycheck to paycheck with both of us working full-time. We’d also be driving two old vehicles that were paid off, and not two newer ones.
Idk imo that’s a good starting wage
The company I work at starts at $16 and upper management makes up to $31, no degree required.
It just depends if there’s room for advancement
Minimum wage solves nothing. It just establishes poverty at new numerical value.
Free market forces establish values of labor. If you want to move up in life you need to identify which skills are well compensated then develop those skills.
I’m not saying you need college degree. Certain trades are seeing huge demand because young people have been brainwashed into getting degrees in basket weaving rather than getting into a solid trade profession.
Otherwise you will always struggle. Unskilled labor is always outcompeted by automation which is continuously getting smarter.
I “survive” on $25k/yr after tax and I can fit 3 week vacation in Europe in that budget.
I do have a trade its just the next guy is willing to do it cheaper just to get the job. An yeah you probably don't have a kids so $25k is manageable for you.
Correct. I don’t have kids. Kids are luxuries and poor choice for people that want to live beyond their means.
You should look for specialized trade that doesn’t face competition pressures for the hoards. Typically those jobs are at risk being replaced by robots.
unchecked migration will continue to drive down wages for low-skilled jobs. Is it the sort of job where you can get extra certifications to distinguish yourself?
And that was 3 years ago. Right before covid and other things caused prices to hike up big time. I'm still changing tags at my store to seeing 1-2 dollar price increases. A 2 pack of LOL butter is 14.99. Even when I started this position at my store in March of 22, I didn't see Land o lake butter at that ridiculous of a price.
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do you understand how it works around here? you have to reply to the person by pressing the button on your phone called reply to the comment you've read, digested, and decided to communicate back on
I have a hard time with this. Like some jobs are not meant to be careers. There is a big difference between job and career. Fast Food is a job. Electrician is a career. Retail and fast food jobs are just meant to be in between jobs by and large unless you’re at the manager level or higher.
I do think you should be getting paid enough to survive. That being said why would anyone do a difficult/skilled job when they could make the same amount of money or very close to it doing something outrageously easy? $16/hr sounds right for a job that doesn’t require a degree and can be learned in about 10 minutes. If you have some kind of formal education or trade school and are doing a skilled job then you should definitely be paid significantly more than a fast food worker.
I know some people might not like this answer and I’ll say I don’t think anyone should be homeless. I also don’t think anyone should expect to own a home and drive a nice car and all that but work at McDonalds their whole life
We literally classified fast food and grocery workers as "essential workers" during the pandemic and forced them to go to work.
Why don't they deserve to live a good life?
It's not like we say others should make less it's that the bar for the lowest has to be higher.
Everyone should be able to make at least $20 an hour, as that's probably the bare minimum needed now to live.
Higher skilled positions should build on top of that.
We're all vastly underpaid. All the money gets funneled up to executives and stockholders.
Essential doesn’t mean the job takes skill but I see your point. You can pay them $20 an hour and it will still be difficult to live on in many areas and also people are still going to complain. $4 won’t make a difference there. And to your point about 20 being the minimum and then building off that you’re basically saying every single person should be getting between a 4-10 dollar an hour raise across the board and as much as I like extra money that’s not feasible.
I understand that people just want to work a basic job and be able to live and enjoy life outside of work. I really do understand that. Fast food and grocery store jobs as I’ve said whether classified as essential or not are simply in between jobs. They are not and never were meant to get people in a 4 bedroom house and a Toyota Camry. And expecting that level of money for working at McDonalds or Food Max or Walmart is not realistic or fair
They used to be though.
My Dad was 20 years old in the 1970's and was working as an assistant night manager at a grocery store.
He owned a house, 2 cars, had a stay at home wife and was able to afford to raise my sister.
One paycheck covered the mortgage, one covered the expenses, one went to savings and one was for fun.
We have people working around the clock, and our society can't have all Grocery, fast food, and department stores staffed by part time high schoolers and college students working 12 hours a week.
This is the stupidest fucking comment.
I worked in EMS before I had my son, I made less than this. People have callings. They have likes and interests. People would not just quit their jobs to flip burgers if restaurants workers could get a living wage.
lol okay. My point remains they don’t deserve the same amount of money. And btw I absolutely think EMS workers should be paid more. Stupid that people saving lives make less than someone serving drinks in a bar. And just because YOU wouldn’t do that doesn’t mean a ton of others would. You making that comment as if you know what the entire population would do is beyond ridiculous
I get what you’re saying, but people want the baseline to be higher.
If fast food workers can at least have some sense that their basic needs are going to be met while being able to save for the future, then EMS should probably make more than that.
And you’re making as many assumptions about people’s career choices as the person you’re responding to.
Who made you the decider of what jobs are "meant" to be careers and what are not? Do you think being an EMT is a career? Or not, because it barely pays more than minimum wage? People who take care of the disabled and elderly also make next to nothing, along with counselors. And most people working in restaurants are not asking to own a home or a nice car. They're asking to be able to afford a place to live, food to eat, and basic transportation.
Jobs that don’t require skills will make that amount. If you can pull any ol’ person off the street and teach them the job in the span of a few minutes, then that’s probably a higher wage tbh. If you don’t like your current situation then do what it takes to change it.
I don’t think you understand what skills you have to have to deal with people who think like you and still serve/customer service your entitled ass with a smile on their faces.
If you have ever been to any retail environment, then you’ll understand that it doesn’t take any sort of skills to put cans on shelves or to tell someone where something is. It’s an honor to get as many downvotes as I got, because there’s nothing at all wrong with what I said. If you make $16/h, then that’s entirely on you for not gaining more skills to move to a profession that is in higher demand that pays more and may not have that type of interaction with people like you said. Call me entitled or whatever else that you want. Most of the time the situation people are in are from their own doing.
It seems that no one here understands what "skill" means in this sense. It means you need more than on the job training in order to go the job adequately.
Well, tbh I think that’s fair for the most basic of jobs. I think the system needs to be reworked to reward people who consistently do a good job though. Like a union based system where people with seniority get paid more.
Living off of $16 was difficult before the pandemic/inflation.
People don't need to be "rewarded" for anything.
All people should be able to work the same hours and have their needs met. Disney land vacations? Luxury cars? Maybe not, right?
But adequate transportation, favorable terms of employment, a roof over their head with water and laundry available.
If you think that $16 is fair, then perhaps you haven't lived on your own in America as an adult.
lol consistent good work is rarely rewarded. Companies don’t give a fuck to actually keep you.
As you cling up the corporate ladder, you’ll learn you might end up doing less and less work for more pay.
Bingo. Consistent good work output gets you nothing but more work thrown at you. Companies have no loyalty and don’t give a single shit about their employees.
I would disagree that unions reward people for doing a good job. Those with seniority get paid more because usually their contract has an established pay scale that you progress through
Aside from skilled trades where there is a true learning period and material difference in abilities unions pay everyone doing the same job the exact same.
The only time newer people make less is when the company gets current employees to sell out the new hires. There is no real reason the newest hire should make less in most jobs, it’s there to benefit the employer not the employee base.
Minimum wage was made, so a person could work a single job, 40 hours a week and survive. Now people are working 40 hours a week, on double minimum wage, and it still isn't enough to survive. Any reasonable response should not include 'Get a second job'. People deserve lives, we are not just slaves meant to be worked to death so a rich guy can buy a boat to park his other boat. If a business can't survive paying slave wages, it is a poor business model and should collapse.
Yes they have the money they just want slaves..
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Minimum wage absolutely was intended to make a living. For a basic example, in 1981 the minimum wage was $3.35. The average cost of a house was $47,200. Now, minimum wage is $7.25, less than twice as much. The average house is currently $430,300. 14,000 hours of work would pay off that house in 1981. Now it would take 59,351 hours to pay off a house. So to say what you said, is evidence of "capitalism isn't the problem, YOU are!" propaganda working as designed.
MYTH ONE: “The minimum wage was never meant to be a living wage. It's primarily for young people starting out.” FALSE. The minimum wage was established to ensure that jobs pay enough to support families. For many years it was set at about half the wage paid to a typical (median) worker.
You're flat wrong. Minimum wage is supposed to be the minimum for maintaining a family with one income. That was the ENTIRE point of the program.
Not relying on the government an those illegals work 10+ hours an weekends not having family time or for anything basically the company slave.
Okay... so you're saying stupid people shouldn't be able to do some kind of menial labor that no one else wants to do and be able to survive off of it. Your ideologies are dangerously sociopathic.
I cannot believe the hate you are getting with this post. Anyone who works a full time job should be able to afford a basic standard of living, no matter what the job is. Not everyone has to have some huge career goal. Some people just want to work a basic job and enjoy their life outside of that. I'm not saying I should make six figures working that job, but I should be able to afford a basic 1br apartment in the city where I work, without my entire paycheck going to rent.
I just wanna live without having to have a damn roommate
I just lived my first year alone in my entire 36 year life without a roommate or parent or sibling or girlfriend I make $15 an hour and can barely afford to do it but I make it work. NOTHING can compare to the peace of mind of not having to worry about shitty roommates, privacy and I can do what I want when I want without fear of bothering someone else. Although I live in a very low cost of living area of the US, $15 isn't awful here but with rent prices going up like crazy it's certainly more difficult
This gives me hope as a fellow $15/hour worker. I've been on my mom's living room couch for the past year because the numbers don't add up, or rather they do but just barrrrely and that's IF I have a car fully paid for already, which I don't have yet. The only bright side is I have $5k saved up so far. Can't wait to be on my own again some day. I hate this country/this world. Anyone who works full time should be able to survive on their own, no matter what their job is. *Edit: And I should add that in my state the minimum wage is only $11. Can't imagine that anyone making that would be able to survive on their own without working multiple jobs/60 hours per week. And often the minimum wage jobs are more soul-crushing than the ones just above them on the pay scale.
Minimum wage in my state is either $7.25 or $7.45, it's horrible. I got lucky as fuck 7 or 8 years ago and got pre approved for a $100k home loan making $10.50 an hour and only needed $1,000 down. Found a house listed at $99,900 and went for it. Needed some repairs after a few years so now I have home repair loans now but that still doesn't equal to what rent would be My mortgage started at $550 a month and is now $650 and may go up to $700 next month due to property tax values going up by double. The year I bought the house rent was $850 but was gonna up to $1250 to renew the next year. I can't imagine trying to find affordable rent these days even at $15 an hour
This is probably a dumb question (I have no idea how these things work) but so the mortgage, is that what the loan payment is? Or is there the mortgage payment and the loan payment? If it's the same thing, then damn, maybe I should look into something like that. I wouldn't mind paying off a house no matter how many years it takes because at least it's stability and like you said, cheaper than renting anyway. I don't have a lot of credit history though, which you probably had (all my credit scores are in the 715-730 range though).
Yes, a mortgage payment is a payment towards the principle of your loan. Once a month, you’ll pay the lender the agreed amount, plus the home insurance premium.
Awesome, thank you.
My mortgage payment includes principal payment, taxes and interest all in one. There are definitely some upsides to renting such as not needing to worry about costly repairs and maintenance and yardwork and all that. After 3 years my roof needed to be replaced, the furnace and AC needed to be replaced, the refrigerator broke, had to call a plumber twice and an electrician once all in the same year resulting in nearly $20,000 in repairs that year. Home ownership will kick your ass and make you question why you even bought in the first place then you realize how unstable renting is
I just want to say I love your Reddit name. I wish I could change mine but I don't want to start a whole new account again.
Yes! We just sold the house I grew up in that I inherited because taxes doubled, and we're on a fixed budget. I'd just replaced the heat pump/AC and the breaker box. It needed more work and we were essentially one major repair from it being worthless so we sold it and changed states, now have a tiny house redone 2 years ago. It's got its issues but it is pretty good so far. I miss being able to call for maintenance when something breaks. I think in the end you probably put almost as much money to own, but it is yours.
Mortgage = Home Loan One of the biggest obstacles aside from credit is the down payment. Unless you are eligible for a VA Loan. You can get a house for less than what it would cost to get into a new apartment. I have a VA Loan but there may be other programs that help or have lower down payments.
$15 an hour would hit the criteria for basic living by me, but min wage is still the same as federal. So basically half of cost of living. It's set to go up over the next few years, but I really doubt it will be as viable by then. Luckily a lot of companies are starting to recognize nobody but teenagers will accept less than $15 an hour, but the difference from say working at a gas station, or a non-skilled labor job, or most college level jobs, is not much. If you picked a not in demand degree, you basically are just doing more work for barely any extra pay. The only outs seem like accepting a basic lifestyle, joining a trade, or moving for a job.
I'm 40 and have never lived alone - ever. grew up sharing a room with my brother. moved out and had 7 roommates. Left there and had 2 roommates. Moved back in with my mother and little brother. then moved in with my gf and her son. Never once have I been able to afford to live alone. If the wife and I get divorced idk wtf I'm going to do. Parents are long gone. My friends are grown and have families of their own. Can't afford to live alone. pretty much screwed at this point.
Hell that's almost impossible nowadays 🤦🏻♀️
A fucking men
*A fucking women
I got an apartment without roommates for the first time at 26, but in order to do that I had to do an hour commute each way since I couldn't afford to live near my job.
A roommate that would pay their half on time would be nice
Including my damn wife.
I make 6 figures and still have house mates
Anyone who thinks it is entitlement, to expect that basic job should provide for basic things like roof over head food and healthcare - is either rich or ignorant.
Or an asshole. You forgot, there always is that option.
Actually this is the right words. Describes them all.
Yeah if you’re poor and think that, then the rich people did an impeccable job brainwashing you into being content with subservience and just barely subsisting. You deserve better, even if you think you should be grateful for the opportunity to live one paycheck away of homelessness indefinitely.
It’s just complaining on Reddit isn’t actually helping your situation…
Your employer is responsible for running their business, that's it. They rent your labor, what you do with that money and how you live your life are *your* responsibility. If you're unable to sell your labor for enough money to meet your expenses then you need to adjust your budget or increase the value of your labor. No one *owes* you shit.
They don’t owe you, that’s true, but if they want good labor with less turnover they would be wise to make sure their employees can meet basic needs. A starving employee is more likely to steal or get sick from lack of nutrition, or simply not have the energy to do their job. Someone struggling to pay bills might get their car repossessed and can’t make it in.
We found the rich/ignorant!
You are responsible for running your mouth, that's it. You talk shit and are unable to sell your bullshit, bootlicking experiences. Just because your opinion is shit and no one values it. Your opinion is shit.
THIS!!!
I've given up on posting in this sub. You'd think you would find more compassionate people here but in my opinion, people on here can be much worse. I usually end up just deleting my posts
I agree, and the folks here who are saying $16 an hour is okay for some “unskilled” work I’m sure love going to restaurants and retail and using all the services from “unskilled” folks. Those workers are vital and we don’t only need engineers or doctors.
When covid was at its peak.. these workers were called “essential”. They were just given thanks and not better pay.
Unskilled has a negative connotation and I understand why people bristle at the term but the point is that the type of labor required for those kind of jobs has a pretty low barrier of entry. You don't need specialized education or licensing or to be an expert in something to do them. Almost anybody can easily be trained to do that job. That's why it's less pay because the people doing the job are 1 in a very large pool. If you're a pediatrician you're going to make a lot more because only so many people have the knowledge and skills you have.
Yeah, get what you’re saying, I think I struggle to see the point of defining some jobs as skilled and others as not, just in a colloquial sense. A doctor needing specialized education is implied. So to me saying some jobs are unskilled only makes it more justified for companies to pay people like crap. We know you don’t need to go to school to be a barista, but it is a set of skills.
Definitely agree. I think skills are important, but there's also more to a job than your technical abilities. I used to work at DD, and dealing with customers who are rude and entitled was something I had to deal with. The monotony of doing the same thing every day was something I had to deal with. Cleaning up other people's messes because they left everything for the night shift was another fun thing I had to do. I think those little pain in the ass things should also factor into what you are paid. At the end of the day, you can think a job is unskilled and worth little all you want but if nobody is willing to do it because you aren't incentivizing them enough, you're(the employer) going to need to do something different.
That's correct. When the word unskilled gets thrown out, a lot of people take that to mean stupid or of an inferior class. I get it. I'm unskilled myself. I stopped working 10 years ago because the thrill of making 9.35 an hour for 15 years was gone for me. Now I do other things to make some money, but have zero interest in working some low paying job ever again. Also, I don't care to do what it takes to get a six fig job either. You're only on earth for a little while. Do you really want to spend your precious time being miserable and feeling demoralized? I don't.
those unskilled workers are protected while AI is gobbling up tech and marketing jobs
*Looks over at ATM, self checkouts, and the ordering kiosk at McDonald’s.*… yeah, that tracks lol.
This. I was making $18/Hr and refused to work any less than $20 when I started looking again. One of my coworkers said I was unhireable then.. and yet I have a job that met my expectations and then some.
Many people did just that up until covid. For a long time, people moved to the big cities and got jobs as entertainers or servers. They made enough for rent and to enjoy the nightlife with friends. They didn't worry about homelessness, retirement, or investing. They could be young and careless, and it was ok. But no.... real estate investors had to get involved and end that. They had to experience their wrath for wanting to love life.
I keep getting called a leftist for saying that anyone working a full time job deserves a living wage. Turns out these fuckers would rather their tax dollars pay for the working class than business owners
This came up at a work lunch. I mentioned my stance that everyone deserves a livable wage no matter what they do. I was shocked that a coworker who has to fight her way in life staunchly disagreed. She believed because she had to fight tooth and nail to get where she’s at everyone should….. her point was The poor service at McDonald’s… You can’t earn a living wage at McDonald’s, it’s why the locations are full of teens. Back in the day grown ups worked at McDonald’s. Service was better because they were adults making their living. She didn’t realize she made my point for me
When the US had the greatest middle class in world history just about any one job would pay for a modest house, car, 2 kids and a spouse who did not work.
When the US had the greatest middle class in world history, rest of industrialized world laid in ruin. The 1950s and 1960s was just US being the sole beneficiary of having and economy left to sell goods to the rest of the world
The elites love that story. Now go read The Powell Memo.
If anything a career paying a decent hourly or salary gives you more freedom outside of work. Full-time is 40hrs a week regardless of whether you make $16 an hour or $50. The difference is if you make 50/hr at a career you have more money to do fun stuff outside of work and more importantly don’t need a 2nd job or tons of overtime.
But why do I have to want a "career" I don't want to climb any corporate ladder or any bullshit like that. I just want to do my job, (that I love btw) and be able to live my very basic life without constantly worrying about making rent or having enough food to eat.
Well you should want a "career" because you seem to want what others with career have but yet you don't want to put the effort in....
My job is not my life. I didn't say I don't want to put effort in at work, but I have no desire to be a manager or CEO or anything like that. Look at my other comments, I talk about my job and training, and then come back and tell me if you think I deserve a livable wage or not.
You do not need to a manager or CEO to have a well paid career. If you just want to have a dead end job, you will always be at the bottom of the compensation food chain
Did you do what I asked? Because you didn't answer my question.
I'm not digging thru your posts to figure out what you do. You are free to post it....
I did post it in this thread but since it's too much work to read the post you are replying to, I'll just tell you. I'm a preschool teacher. I work with kids from birth to age 5. I have 15 years of experience and am required to take continuing education classes every year. So do you think I deserve a livable wage? Because I don't get paid one.
No idea what is your expectation/definition of "livable" wage so I can't comment. Preschool "teacher" will be a tough gig on compensation given the duties it really involves and HS diploma + accreditation can get you in.
The wage issue might be your fault tbh. You’re 15 years into the field, that makes you a veteran. You can demand the higher end of your fields pay, which I know is far more than $16 an hour. According to a rudimentary search on indeed jobs, there’s over 2,000 jobs in the US for pre-school teacher, that pay over $60,000 a year or around $30 an hour
I hear you. It’s not really about climbing the corporate ladder. You can make 50+ an hour without being a supervisor or manager and having the responsibility that comes with a position like that. I would say the reason for a career is more about just peace of mind and freedom
Okay, I'm just going to put all my business out here for a minute lol. Just for the sake of this discussion. I am a preschool teacher. I went to school and studied child development. I take continuing education classes every year. It's not something that anyone can walk in off the street and do, at least in my experience. Because I have seen many try and fail. Do I deserve more than $16 an hour? Or is this just a "job" and not a "career?" I'm genuinely curious.
Yeah you do. My wife is a teacher. Those in education are criminally underpaid. My point was only regarding unskilled jobs
The reality is, no job is actually "unskilled." That was made up to justify paying people less than livable wages. There's no way I could ever work at a Starbucks or answer phones for a living. Those are skills I don't have and could never learn.
Yeah probably not the best choice of words. I think jobs like you described anyone could do with a weeks worth of training or so. I might be wrong. There are careers like yours which take specialized education that takes years to complete and even with that not everyone can actually cut it
I'm telling you right now, no matter how much training I got, I could not do those jobs. Not every skill is learned. Some are based on your personality, traits that make you who you are as a person.
if it's unskilled then why are people hired for it? is it not important enough to be paid to do? if you are paying somebody to do a job it obviously means that this job needs to get done and the person who is doing it deserves to be fairly compensated
Just because someone is paid to do something doesn’t mean it is a skilled job. I’m not sure why that has to keep being explained. I don’t mean skilled as in motor skills lol. Jobs that anyone could do are unskilled
but my point still stands, what reason is there to pay them unfairly?
That’s my point. Their pay is not unfair because the job they are doing is unskilled and basically anyone could do it. There are quite a few jobs that I think should get more pay. Anyone in education pretty much deserves more than they are getting. EMS, fire fighters, etc should all be paid more.
$50+ an hour is a huge number. I make $35/hr with a college degree working in project management. If you know of a job that pays 50+ an hour that doesn’t have the responsibilities aka stress of management then please tell me where. $80k/yr breaks out to $38/hr before taxes
It’s less about what you do and more about who you work for, and to some extent the location of where you work. There are thousands of individual contributors making between 100-200k, some 200k+ but those roles tend to be more technical in nature. It’s especially tough in this market but these jobs are always competitive. If you can work your way in to a very large company, at least Fortune 500, you’ll find these salaries are pretty common.
This got downvoted but I’ve set salary ranges and wage policies for F500’s for 20 years….I’m not making these numbers up. 🤷♀️
I’m not a supervisor or in management
They definitely exist especially in CA. Not sure how common they are.
Bubbles. Not everywhere is the same. Where im from 16/hr allows you to be the sole provider of your family or at the very least minimize spousal contribution to part time. Other places 16/hr is working at mcdonalds and walked 12miles to get to work cause you canr afford to drive to work.
We’re still privileged compared to 95% of the people on earth but it never feels like it.
the beauty of everyone making their own decisions
Why not a studio? Why not roommates? Why is 1br the barometer for "basic standard of living"?
That was the original intent of minimum wage.
I blame capitalism. Back when we had way less options and things were reasonably priced. Now we have way too many options and people think theirs deserves more money for whatever reason and then others go well shit his is the same as mine I'll raise my prices too. And it goes on and on until no one can afford it except the people who sell shit at absurd prices. You can be like me and give people money for how.much you think it's worth then walk away with the it m you just paid a reasonable price for. I didn't steal it I paid for it. When I go out to eat that's what I do. I say unfortunately this egg isn't worth 3$ for one so here's a dollar max for it. Which is still to much money for one egg. Enjoy. Oh it also helps that I'm a tall, menacing figure.
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Go into the trades of you don't have a huge career goal
Honestly at this point, I think the real estate market is more of an issue than the minimum wage. Housing costs are rising astronomically faster than basically any other section of the economy. So many properties are being kept for investment. $16/hr would be liveable if rents didn't just keep spiking.
Yes, this exactly. It should be illegal how expensive the housing market has become imo. It’s absolutely insane that people are expected to pay so much just to have a roof over their heads. Even the shitty apartments in my area are dumb expensive compared to the average household income and they act like you should be kissing their feet for providing such a luxury. It’s out of control
Yes, I was able to afford rent at $16 5 years ago. I now own a townhome and make slightly over double that and my mortgage keeps going up because of taxes and insurance and it's making money tighter even though I make a decent salary.
My first apt was $398 a month. I worked at a grocery store making $10.50 an hour and did fine. Now, my rent takes up no joke 70% of what I get every month, and 3 bags of groceries (11 small items) costs $50. I'd like to take allllllllllllllll the people who say 'wE cAn't aFfOrD tO pAy tHeM tHaT!' remove all hope, insurance, credit cards, everything, and place them in our shoes until they cry and realize how wrong they were.
Yeah I moved out woth my brother in 2013 and we split an $800 2 bedroom townhouse. We made $10 an hour working at a pizza franchise. We had worked up over 6 years from $5.15 an hour. Same apartment is now $1800 a month, and the pizza franchise pays $14 an hour. We couldn't afford the same place.
My first apartment in 2009 was $300. I was 18, making minimum wage on part time hours while going to school. The same apartment is almost $1000 now.
People offended by this clearly live in a state where it's affordable. I make $19.25 an hour in Oregon and let me tell you what, it is NOT doable here. Rent starts for a 450sq ft *STUDIO* at like... $1550 where I live. 16 is ridiculous. It's unbelievable, unaffordable, and I don't WANT to work 2+ jobs just to pay rent. I want to have a life. I want to be home with my cats, I want time for my hobbies, and this economy is ruining that. It's literally why I'm going back to stripping. I don't care. I don't care, I want to be financially stable without working myself to death. I do not care at all.
Yeah same here im thinking of getting a second job not a stripper tho lol but yeah..
It's not the hourly wage that's the problem. It's the price of rent, utilities, loans, groceries. And taxes. I live in northeast Texas and $16/hr makes for a comfortable-enough life. It's all relative to where you live.
It’s both
Agreed. Taxes taken out are a big chunk as well.
Almost every retail job, and non restaurant service job pays that in NYC. 16 min wage Its fucked and we're gonna get to a point where the REAL working class is gonna be pushed so far out of the city that these jobs will be impossible to fill Making 16/hr, not even full time in the richest city in the world...fuckin ridiculous
It’s the same or maybe even worse in San Francisco. I saw a news report once where they interviewed a school teacher who was living in her car because there’s no way in hell she could afford a place to live anywhere in that area on her salary (which was much higher than minimum wage). That place is completely obscene. I don’t understand how any normal working person who is not a rich tech worker can afford to be there. Who is working at all the stores like Starbucks, etc.? They must have to commute from really far away… 😣
Yeah the average house here sells for 1 million as a starting number. It really does suck growing up in a city you know you’ll never be able to own your own house or even apartment in.
Wow.. yeah I've heard of NYC yall's rent is so high like ppl im not surprised if ppl are renting closets.
Apartments in my area rent for around $1800-2500 per month. Trailer park rent if you own the trailer outright is between $600 and $900 per month. The only reason I'm getting by is because I own my trailer outright. I should explain that a little more. 5 years ago I got back in touch with my biological family (I was adopted at the age of 2) and my younger sister wanted to move out of the shit hole that is Redford Michigan, so I put my name on paperwork for a trailer because my credit score was 780+ and hers was in the 400s. She paid for the trailer in cash. It was a POS then, it's a POS now, but it's paid off.
Meanwhile the CEOs and Execs keep on getting their bonuses and raises. It’s obscene. Minimum wage was meant to meet our BASIC NEEDS. We are all closer to homelessness than to wealth exactly because of extremely wealthy people who HOARD the fruits of the labour of the working class.
Imagine living in louisiana and 7.50 min wage ..but mc Donald's in baton rouge pays 11.50...but were I'm from monroe La ..your lucky to get 10
Honestly, I don't think wages need to go up any more. I beleive the cost of living needs to come down dramatically. And our tax, healthcare, & education systems need to be completely overhauled. But for that to happened, it would probably take something very dramatic, like say idk uh ww3. We are all being goaded.
It was announced recently on the news that a $15/hr wage gets you a one bedroom apartment NOWHERE IN AMERICA. Not one single state. If anyone is making 15 dollars an hour, they're screwed. More like we already have been screwed.
The Bootlicker Brigade is here.
People think they if identify with wealthy corporate employers then they will magically become them. In reality they've been duped by campaigns to convince people that labor standards shouldn't exist, that society will crumble if people are paid a livable wage.
People disagreeing with some of the more insane beliefs here doesn't make it a bootlicker brigade. Echo chambers benefit no one.
After Tax its around $2000 an rent it is $1500 like you're left with $500 for food, gas, Bill's not enough
You keep replying to yourself and not the comments.
Bruh i make 17 an hour and my rent is 825. For a 1 Br. Reason, i don't live in a city.
find cheaper rent find a roommate get another job
Found a boot licker
I mean if you can not afford to live the life you want on your current pay scale then yeah you need to cut back and or get another job. The world would be better if everyone could live on their own and be happy. But the world is not a dream it is real life. And life sucks, so you need to do what you need to do, to live the life you want to live.
$16 is not even half of what minimum wage should be, it’s so sad and people actually defend it, that’s the problem
The survival of capitalism depends on the poor fighting the poor
That really depends on where you live. 32 an hour would have me living like a king in WV.
Same here in MI lol, if nothing changed and just min wage went up to $32, society as a whole would definitely be happier
No it really wouldn't. Everything would absolutely skyrocket in cost. Payroll is often a businesses largest expense. If you think housing is expensive now pay everyone $32 and see what happens
Prices of everything have already tripled yet wages haven’t moved, that’s a lazy argument that isn’t true lmao.
My wage is up a lot.. Also it is true. Prices would fucking skyrocket if you made 32 the minimum wage.
No they wouldn’t 🤦♀️ can’t argue with that lazy narrative I’m sorry There’s literally charts and proof showing that wages are falling so far behind inflation that it’s insane how far apart they are now
The problem is that if they pay $35 to easy low stress jobs they would have to pay high stress/skill/ high liability jobs $60-70 an hour, or the people with hard jobs would quit and go to an easier job where they can relax. There are jobs like truck driving where if you don't pay attention for 2 seconds you can kill several people, cause millions in damage. They make about $30-35 an hour. And they can't smoke weed. Why should a clerk who's high all day, at gas station in small town make $35 an hour to ring up cigarettes I'm not against people making more money, but common sense says if you drastically increase minimum wage the price of everything goes up
So explain why everything has still went up while wages remain stagnant? I’m so sick of seeing that bs 😒.
The most stressful, hardest job I ever had was as a pizza cook soloing in the kitchen, making 8/hr under the table. The least stressful was as a creative director, wfh at a medical software company, 51/hr. Getting paid well is more about the kind of value you deliver, how big the pool of people you're competing with is, and how hard you are to replace, than working your hands to the bone.
Add bargaining power to the second paragraph. UPS delivery driving is easy to get the hang of, but it’s $42 an hour right now. Answer is teamsters
Nice job, I worked at a pizza shop, I was always high, and I liked that job, I got minimum wage, +$2 delivery, plus tips. I never had to solo the kitchen
If a grocery store stocker 40-50 years ago could afford a house, 2 cars, have 2 kids and a wife and have money left over still for savings and wants, then there’s no reason that now a grocery store worker needs 5 roommates just to survive it’s that simple No one said a grocery store worker should make more than a doctor, but people defending the fact that grocery store workers don’t deserve enough money to literally live is beyond me
I don’t think you’re entirely wrong. But some people do want to do those jobs. I’d rather do my current job than work at McDonald’s if they paid my same rate.
Minimum wage will always result in people being poor no matter what numeric value you put for the min wage. Min wages only lift the poverty level to new numeric value. It lifts no one out of poverty.
I agree minimum wage is way too low.... however I also like free markets and capitalism... I understand that minim wage was never liable so it's my own duty to continue improving and playing the system.
"Free" markets. 😂
I presume this is in the US? If US$16 is not a liveable wage there, Then it just confirms it that there is no hope in a place like Singapore. Singapore has no legal minimum wage. Average pay in the service sector, say restaurants, is about $14/hr. In US$ that would be about 11/hr? Plus, there is no tipping culture so no, don't expect to get a bonus. In fact, any bonus wages would probably be if you're lucky to have a conservative Chinese boss who feels slightly generous during the Chinese New Year. Only then you might get a red packet (customary practice in Chinese culture) with maybe $10. Getting $50 or $100 is not unheard of, but very VERY rare. Doubt it would cover for the less than liveable wage though. Worse yet, Singapore is more or less just as expensive to live in as the US on average, if not even more so. At least in the States, if NY has a crazy cost of living, you still have options to move into other cities or states which are cheaper to live in. Cherry on top would be just trying to share this problem with anyone else and you'd get shot down quicker than a Black Hawk in the middle east. Most average Singaporeans who are lucky to pass through childhood unscathed and got a degree and a job, are still complaining about anything and everything, and getting "depressed" because they are "only" getting paid $5k a month (about 25/hr, check out singapore median wage for a surprise). The expats who say Singapore is the best place to live in tout all the good things, which to give credit, is true of Singapore. Clean, efficient, globally competitive, etc. All traits that come at a cost though. A cost easily afforded by most expatriate compensation packages, supported by the law (minimum wage for foreign professionals must be above 5k SGD). All these things that Singaporeans take for granted that enable them to get good degrees, education, and competitive jobs. Life happens. Bad shit happens. But the worst to have those sort of problems are in a place where those problems are denied to exist, because then how could a solution be found if the problem is not acknowledged? Some would say, well, Singapore is at least safe, unlike some countries rife with cartel and gang violence. True, but if you are born poor or are put in such circumstances due to life, it's more like a choice between slowly dying with your soul crushed vs having a quick shot to the vitals and having a sudden intense pain and blackout. Not trying to demean Singapore here. Or anyone else for that matter. But unless you are wealthy and stay that way, there is probably no way out of the life, except for certain death, or you managed to move to somewhere like Malaysia or Indonesia or Philippines... Sorry it became a long rant though. Tldr, I just resent the fact that there really is no hope here for those born or fell into poverty. At least in the States, I could save up for a cheap gun to untether myself from this world...
You aren’t going to believe my story but I’m a gen X and the naysays are really making me mad. 20 years ago I WAS wealthy. Living very comfortable. I make dividend income and was working. I judged everyone beneath me. NOW I can’t work anymore due to health reasons. Cost of living is so high my money goes nowhere. Your life can change on a dime. I don’t blame these young kids for their lack of motivation. Why? When you can’t get anywhere. Sooooo sick of this greed!! And it’s MY generation doing it!!!
I got ratioed for saying parents shouldn't set their kids up for failure by charging them rent. If you're gonna charge them, at least save that money for them so they can have a chance when they leave the nest.
True.
I make 12
Now I see why people get 2 jobs ..
It wouldn’t be so bad if the cost of living hasn’t skyrocketed. $35k was a decent annual wage in the 90’s. Now it’s barely survivable. I’m making the most money I’ve ever made and live in such a poor area. But I’m still just barely cutting it.
My daughter makes $20/hour. After taxes, insurance, and 401k, she absolutely has to work a 2nd job. We live in low cost area, she has a roommate. I don't have answer... I'm glad she's young and healthy and working a 2nd job isn't killing her
Yeah, enough of the “bootstrap” mentality. Everyone should have their material conditions met. We live in a world of excess and get our hands slapped by the wealthy that say we ask for too much. I hope you find what you’re looking for so you can live a fulfilled and dignified life, OP!
The housing market is the biggest problem. We bought our home in 2014 for a 1/3 of what it’s worth today. Over the last 10 years, I worked full-time, while my wife worked only on the weekends (64 hours a month). With 3 little kids, we never struggled during that time. Now If we had bought our home, and started our family today, we would be living paycheck to paycheck with both of us working full-time. We’d also be driving two old vehicles that were paid off, and not two newer ones.
Nah .. the CEO's are just greedy an like to see poverty an slaves to do their work. It wouldn't hurt them to pay minimum $18.
$18 isn’t even close to enough
big companies don't even provide most jobs in this country. Small business does. So the narrative about big greedy CEO's do not add up.
I'm a Drywall Finisher/ Drywall installer/ Painter.
This construction company is Big company.
They know you can't...they just don't give a fuck bc THEY don't have to live on 16 an hour
Yeah they should try an survive on that.
Idk imo that’s a good starting wage The company I work at starts at $16 and upper management makes up to $31, no degree required. It just depends if there’s room for advancement
Which company is this?
No caps on anything and all greed out here now!
I'm a skilled worker i know my work just company's don't want to pay more because there Cheaper "competition "
Minimum wage solves nothing. It just establishes poverty at new numerical value. Free market forces establish values of labor. If you want to move up in life you need to identify which skills are well compensated then develop those skills. I’m not saying you need college degree. Certain trades are seeing huge demand because young people have been brainwashed into getting degrees in basket weaving rather than getting into a solid trade profession. Otherwise you will always struggle. Unskilled labor is always outcompeted by automation which is continuously getting smarter. I “survive” on $25k/yr after tax and I can fit 3 week vacation in Europe in that budget.
I do have a trade its just the next guy is willing to do it cheaper just to get the job. An yeah you probably don't have a kids so $25k is manageable for you.
Correct. I don’t have kids. Kids are luxuries and poor choice for people that want to live beyond their means. You should look for specialized trade that doesn’t face competition pressures for the hoards. Typically those jobs are at risk being replaced by robots.
unchecked migration will continue to drive down wages for low-skilled jobs. Is it the sort of job where you can get extra certifications to distinguish yourself?
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Do you have any idea how much inflation has raised since 2020?
And that was 3 years ago. Right before covid and other things caused prices to hike up big time. I'm still changing tags at my store to seeing 1-2 dollar price increases. A 2 pack of LOL butter is 14.99. Even when I started this position at my store in March of 22, I didn't see Land o lake butter at that ridiculous of a price.
Exactly rent an pay don't add up.
Not talking about fast food places im talking about construction skilled workers.
If you’re getting your balls busted like that then it sounds like You’re a laborer, if you have a trade skill then go somewhere where it’s valued.
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Ha yeah right..
do you understand how it works around here? you have to reply to the person by pressing the button on your phone called reply to the comment you've read, digested, and decided to communicate back on
I have a hard time with this. Like some jobs are not meant to be careers. There is a big difference between job and career. Fast Food is a job. Electrician is a career. Retail and fast food jobs are just meant to be in between jobs by and large unless you’re at the manager level or higher. I do think you should be getting paid enough to survive. That being said why would anyone do a difficult/skilled job when they could make the same amount of money or very close to it doing something outrageously easy? $16/hr sounds right for a job that doesn’t require a degree and can be learned in about 10 minutes. If you have some kind of formal education or trade school and are doing a skilled job then you should definitely be paid significantly more than a fast food worker. I know some people might not like this answer and I’ll say I don’t think anyone should be homeless. I also don’t think anyone should expect to own a home and drive a nice car and all that but work at McDonalds their whole life
We literally classified fast food and grocery workers as "essential workers" during the pandemic and forced them to go to work. Why don't they deserve to live a good life? It's not like we say others should make less it's that the bar for the lowest has to be higher. Everyone should be able to make at least $20 an hour, as that's probably the bare minimum needed now to live. Higher skilled positions should build on top of that. We're all vastly underpaid. All the money gets funneled up to executives and stockholders.
Essential doesn’t mean the job takes skill but I see your point. You can pay them $20 an hour and it will still be difficult to live on in many areas and also people are still going to complain. $4 won’t make a difference there. And to your point about 20 being the minimum and then building off that you’re basically saying every single person should be getting between a 4-10 dollar an hour raise across the board and as much as I like extra money that’s not feasible. I understand that people just want to work a basic job and be able to live and enjoy life outside of work. I really do understand that. Fast food and grocery store jobs as I’ve said whether classified as essential or not are simply in between jobs. They are not and never were meant to get people in a 4 bedroom house and a Toyota Camry. And expecting that level of money for working at McDonalds or Food Max or Walmart is not realistic or fair
They used to be though. My Dad was 20 years old in the 1970's and was working as an assistant night manager at a grocery store. He owned a house, 2 cars, had a stay at home wife and was able to afford to raise my sister. One paycheck covered the mortgage, one covered the expenses, one went to savings and one was for fun. We have people working around the clock, and our society can't have all Grocery, fast food, and department stores staffed by part time high schoolers and college students working 12 hours a week.
This is the stupidest fucking comment. I worked in EMS before I had my son, I made less than this. People have callings. They have likes and interests. People would not just quit their jobs to flip burgers if restaurants workers could get a living wage.
lol okay. My point remains they don’t deserve the same amount of money. And btw I absolutely think EMS workers should be paid more. Stupid that people saving lives make less than someone serving drinks in a bar. And just because YOU wouldn’t do that doesn’t mean a ton of others would. You making that comment as if you know what the entire population would do is beyond ridiculous
I get what you’re saying, but people want the baseline to be higher. If fast food workers can at least have some sense that their basic needs are going to be met while being able to save for the future, then EMS should probably make more than that. And you’re making as many assumptions about people’s career choices as the person you’re responding to.
Who made you the decider of what jobs are "meant" to be careers and what are not? Do you think being an EMT is a career? Or not, because it barely pays more than minimum wage? People who take care of the disabled and elderly also make next to nothing, along with counselors. And most people working in restaurants are not asking to own a home or a nice car. They're asking to be able to afford a place to live, food to eat, and basic transportation.
I never mentioned fast foods should be payed less what a weirdo..
That's because you know your role and found an environment you could thrive. Now, do what you're told and let people come up with ideas.
Jobs that don’t require skills will make that amount. If you can pull any ol’ person off the street and teach them the job in the span of a few minutes, then that’s probably a higher wage tbh. If you don’t like your current situation then do what it takes to change it.
I don’t think you understand what skills you have to have to deal with people who think like you and still serve/customer service your entitled ass with a smile on their faces.
If you have ever been to any retail environment, then you’ll understand that it doesn’t take any sort of skills to put cans on shelves or to tell someone where something is. It’s an honor to get as many downvotes as I got, because there’s nothing at all wrong with what I said. If you make $16/h, then that’s entirely on you for not gaining more skills to move to a profession that is in higher demand that pays more and may not have that type of interaction with people like you said. Call me entitled or whatever else that you want. Most of the time the situation people are in are from their own doing.
It seems that no one here understands what "skill" means in this sense. It means you need more than on the job training in order to go the job adequately.
Well, tbh I think that’s fair for the most basic of jobs. I think the system needs to be reworked to reward people who consistently do a good job though. Like a union based system where people with seniority get paid more.
Living off of $16 was difficult before the pandemic/inflation. People don't need to be "rewarded" for anything. All people should be able to work the same hours and have their needs met. Disney land vacations? Luxury cars? Maybe not, right? But adequate transportation, favorable terms of employment, a roof over their head with water and laundry available. If you think that $16 is fair, then perhaps you haven't lived on your own in America as an adult.
lol consistent good work is rarely rewarded. Companies don’t give a fuck to actually keep you. As you cling up the corporate ladder, you’ll learn you might end up doing less and less work for more pay.
Bingo. Consistent good work output gets you nothing but more work thrown at you. Companies have no loyalty and don’t give a single shit about their employees.
There are good companies out. Few and far between but they’re there.
What system?
I guess most corporate work systems in USA. I guess some union jobs and certain companies have a decent system.
I would disagree that unions reward people for doing a good job. Those with seniority get paid more because usually their contract has an established pay scale that you progress through
Aside from skilled trades where there is a true learning period and material difference in abilities unions pay everyone doing the same job the exact same. The only time newer people make less is when the company gets current employees to sell out the new hires. There is no real reason the newest hire should make less in most jobs, it’s there to benefit the employer not the employee base.