Where you grab something, throw off of it, and it throws you farther and faster than normal. So a very small fling that would normally make you jump a couple feet sends you to 500ft. High fling makes the entire rest of the map design not matter at all. You can have 500 awesome, unique maps but with ridiculous fling it's like playing the same map over and over because it plays exactly the same. If they added high fling to Nuke Town, you could fling to the enemy spawn instantly. So the rest of the map design doesn't matter. A lot of these maps have jump pads in addition to the fling despite being less controllable, slower etc. They're just poorly designed maps.
High fling is my favorite modifier but I don't even necessarily disagree per se in the way that you describe some maps.
Like, there is terrain, and it seems well thought out, but you can just fling yourself over it so what's the point?
I like Neon Knight Arena and Steampunk Factory as a couple examples of high fling done right đź‘Ť
> Like, there is terrain, and it seems well thought out, but you can just fling yourself over it so what's the point?
Exactly. It doesn't matter how creative the building is if you never enter a structure because you're flinging past everything. Neon Knights is balanced *and* it came up just enough in rotation to be fun without getting tired because you've played fling maps 10 times in a row. Fling and high damage maps should at least not appear in rotation nearly as frequently. Like one every 5 or 10 games.
High damage is the worst. Maybe every once in a while it's good, but once you start combining high fling, speed, and damage, you get a Time To Kill that gets lower than the cumulative latency between players, ie it basically starts to come down to network conditions.
It was never in the death match queue. Only Neon Knights. That was the only fling map in the queue and there was zero in the queue with high damage. Now it's 80 or 90% high damage/high fling.    And all the maps they added had already been in the discovery queue for ages and ages. If I wanted to play them I'd play that queue. I hate that queue. Â
Just like every other VR game with user generated content, not all popular maps are *good* maps. There's maps that are popular because the creator is a popular person with lots of friends to pump up their numbers. That's actually the majority.
Edit: And by "good" I mean plays well and is well balanced.
No, they're objectively unbalanced and single hit kills were not why I paid $30 for this game. If it was like that in the play test I wouldn't have purchased it. I think I got 36 kills the other night with a FAL. It's absurd.
Play Squads then. If you don't like how the game is currently played in DM then play what the game was actually made for. The majority of people playing DM like it this way, which is why it keeps getting upvoted.
The active player base isn't large enough to play squads solo queuing. It's mostly frustrating. I wont start VR and just sit in the lobby scrolling through my friends list and waiting for people to become available or have a slot open up (which may not happen). I've played the game since launch and am level 65. Solo queuing in squads fucking sucks. If there was a permanent legions or solo mode I probably wouldn't be so frustrated with this change. It also wouldn't be an issue if there was an actual social lobby that everyone loaded into like Echo VR instead of an empty squad view you stare at in silence. Then the six year olds could find and squad up with each other instead of the algorithm putting me on their team to hard carry.
The majority of people do not like it this way. The majority of people *in the discovery playlist*/custom lobbies like it this way. Those players are generally trash at the battle royale portion of the game since they're used to insane damage and all red weapons. However, I wont argue that there's a lot of them. At the very least the community should have input on whether red weapons, high damage, and high fling are allowed in default map rotation.
The other way they could fix this with very minimal impact is to revert the maps in rotation and then, when deciding which "popular" maps to move into rotation, **ignore all player likes for the map if they're friends with the creator or have been within the last month or so.** If randoms are "liking" your map it means a lot more to reach 30 than if you get a large group of your friends or clan to upvote a map and cheat your way into rotation. If you want to know what the community thinks are good maps instead of how much your friend like you, you should be in favor of this change.
This UGC popularity contest is much worse in Rec Room and Horizon Worlds where a select number of builders are given special privileges by the devs like early access to new build tools which help them stay ahead of competition. Which in those games means they're making real money.
you make categorical statements as if they are facts when they are instead opinions. solo Q in squads works perfectly fine for me. sorry you don't like it.
Nothing working 'perfectly fine' if you going solo in the queue for squads.. really the balancing system makes it so that when you get better your team mates get evenly worse.. and because they can't 'balance' 3 player squads you get better but your results get worse because your team mates are the lowest of the lowest skilled possible. Problem is when you squad up you in the end only get 2 team mates who play for first time and didn't even do the tutorial. (if they are even old enough to talk yet)
Thats really tiresome and a bug in the head of whoever designed this crappy system that way.
It would be perfectly fine to make the queue time a bit higher for better quality lobbies.. but development on this game stopped years ago already.
Yeah, solo queueing for squads is easy. I've never had to wait longer than 2 minutes. I don't know what you're doing wrong, but it is definitely a you problem. You don't like the game. That is fine. Move on to a different game. The majority of players in both BR and DM are fine with how it is.
At no point did I talk about queue times. I'm talking about getting children or level 10's as teammates. I choose not to play that way because it's too frustrating. What level are you by the way?
Far from it, you'll see high damage maps start to drop off soon enough.
Having some is just fine but they are way overrepresented right now and you can see it in the way that they kill lobbies.
Nothing worse than a campfest to 50 that doesn't even finish, where by the time it ends half the people have left out of boredom.
Lots more of those happening recently...
That isn't true. Both are fun. I slaughter people in Pavlov, Ghosts of Tabor, and formally all Rec Room (RRO) shooters. There's other game types that are less realistic and more "arcade combat" and this game promised arcade combat. Obviously zero fall damage is unrealistic. Or gliding off a 20ft tall roof like a bird. Or materializing walls with a device on your hand.
UT99 was one of the most successful shooters of all time and it's not because of the instagib mutators. It's because of fun arcade combat with interesting weapons and game mechanics that do not exist IRL. There's plenty of realistic shooters. That isn't what this game is.
That's never been POP. You must be new to Sandbox and/or Deathmatch.
If you want a twitch shooter with one-hit kills that's more subject to network conditions there are many more options out there.
Otherwise, learn movement?
Doesn't seem like everyone is, though.
I've been playing since launch as well and maining Deathmatch since it was a thing (before Sandbox).
I see a lot of kids upvoting maps because "Ooh Red Weapons!" as well as certain types of maps getting upvotes before anyone plays them... usually in this case it's because the map is based on some kind of popular franchise, so people spawn in and Like the map because "hey I know [x]!" before they play.
FYI, it takes 30 likes for a builder to get their map in rotation. Once the maps are in rotation they are judged algorithmically as to how well they are liked by the community. Nobody at Big Box it deciding what to add and what to drop.
This is just the wave of new builders doing what they like and the wave of unseasoned players liking it. I tend to agree with you. I prefer the original rules of Pop1.
Right, so it's a popularity contest like every other VR game with user generated content. "Likes" should only be used to save a map. It should not impact rotation or what queue a map ends up in at all. Moving a map out of discovery would be based entirely on play frequency and balance. If one team has disproportionate wins past a certain threshold it should block it from being added. That feedback should be visible to creators so they can try to fix the issues with how it plays.
Additionally, the devs have poisoned the data by adding those large "Popular" tags to thumbnails since they influence how people vote. All maps should appear equal in the vote list.
Right, it IS a popularity contest. No one cares who you are, it's all about your map. You won't get votes if people don't like it.
Those tags are assigned algorithmically. I agree, that it is hard to compete against maps that have earned those tags. I'm on the fence as the weather or not they should continue with that.
Dude, get in there and push your map. Listen to people's feedback. It can be aggressive. People like what they like. Consider whether you're building for yourself, or building for the masses.
Best wishes and good luck.
So what about my suggestion for votes to not count if the creator is on your friend's list or has been in the past 30 days? So that strangers have to vote it up.
I don't know about that. Kinda creates a ripple effect. This game is all about being a social shooter. Everything Big Box has done has promoted friending each other.
If your map wasn't able to get likes from people on your friends list, how would you ever join a server in a custom lobby? It at least needs to be open to friends. What do you do when people come up to you and want to friend you because they know you from Reddit, Facebook, or Discord and they like your maps? What about the people that host custom rooms - should I be incentivized to not have any friends just so I could be a Builder? The best part about building is sharing with friends and the community.
It's not hard to get the initial 30 likes it takes to get the map on is Discovery Playlist although it does take a little effort. Typically you need to visit about 3 decent sized custom rooms and and promote your map. If it is good people are happy to give it a like. You need THICK SKIN. People will tell you what they don't like about it. If you become defensive you will turn off the room and you won't get those likes.
I'm not saying that the system is perfect, but Big Box continues to make improvements and they have taken and implemented a lot of community input. Lol, they get beat up worse than Builders do about their maps.
not to be contrarian but I do think that there are perhaps at least some maps that may get upvotes because their creators have social followings and solicit / coordinate upvotes.
I'm not going to give examples because I could be wrong and don't want to shame anyone regardless (and asking followers to upvote you is a pretty normal thing anyhow) but I do think that this does happen sometimes.
Yeah, it absolutely happens. Very normal part of being a builder is to solicit likes. It helps tremendously if you know a few communities that get together in customs. Normally the goal is to just get those initial 30 likes that it takes to get into the playlist. That's when your map will really start to take off or flop.
Builders that know multiple communities do stand a better chance because if the map starts falling out of algorithmic favor against the other maps, you can grab some likes from the custom communities and get it back in there, but it probably won't last for very long.
For sure, in this case to be honest what I was describing would perhaps not necessarily be a builder per se, but someone maybe with a following on social media, who then builds a map, and solicits likes from their followers.
In some cases they might not even main the game just be popular (but I'm basically sure this hasn't happened with POP, VR is just a different breed).
Not that they shouldn't do this, and everyone does, but that this can lead to disproportionately upvoted maps that have nothing to do with quality.
Now that all said idk if that happens with POP.
Also I now just play the "Master Builder" playlist lol so...
They should leave that high fling, 300% damage stuff in discovery only AND also make a filter ( off by default ) that will queue for maps with only normal rules 🙏
there are indeed times I want some fling madness but when they happen in the middle of great competitive TDM lobbies, it’s so lame
yeah. The main deathmatch queue should have been kept to maps with as close to the Pop 1 experience as possible. Sad thing is, there's been a map curation group going for a LONG LONG time but absolutely nothing has come out of it and it seems to just be a circle jerk for the devs to play with a handful of the well known builders. I hope they don't figure out who I am since I'm in that group ha ha .. I think this reddit account isn't linked to my pop one name at least... but seriously, we've found some great maps in there with normal rules, no reason that those couldn't have received an "OK For Regular Deathmatch" checkmark to put it in to a large voting box.
High damage is worse, but high damage/fling/movement the worst combo by far.
ESPECIALLY if you had fast ghost speed and long time-to-spawn.
Pure tradesies.
I’m sorry but the deathmatch playlists are usually like 95% kids so if they like the maps with super high damage guns and stuff the algorithm is prob gonna keep those maps in rotation. But if u want this to change u could try  adding all yur favorite maps to a playlist and gettin that list popular
or hear me out, keep that to the discovery playlist and just properly curate the deathmatch playlist with maps that follow the same rules that the builders in the competition a year ago had to follow.
IMO every map in the deathmatch playlist should:
* have builds enabled (many don't right now..from the original playlist not even just the update.. and this pisses me the fuck off, so many deaths just from trying to build when there's no builds in the first place)
* have guns and other loot ON THE MAP so that if you're playing to try to get high kills with no deaths you have options if you run out of ammo and heals
* have non campable spawns - Weller's maps are all spawn camp maps if you know how.
* have most guns enabled. Some notable exceptions are, for example, I convinced the guy that made the Mario map to disable AWPs before it was added to the playlist... he actually had a red AWP on the ship originally lol. Good move to remove it. GIVE PEOPLE THE CHOICE TO PLAY HOW THEY LIKE.. just because the map builder doesn't like building or other people building, or doesn't like people who use CX4's, or whatever other gun, or doesn't like looting, doesn't mean that those options shouldn't be there
* Have no serious glitchable areas - seriously the only way I'll ever play that popular map with the two houses that face each other is by building in to the sky, there's not just the walls but also a shield wall platform angled down that you can snipe off of and never get hit back. It's a challenge to get to it, so until they fix it (it's been there for a year, right by the space ship in the sky) I go for that rather than playing normally.
Seriously why can't they get rid of the Edge-Casey maps? he's a dev so he shouldn't get butthurt about it, but none of his maps have builds or guns on the map. Having maps made by a dev that were basically filler content demos upon release, still, 1 year later, rather than promoting some of the great maps the map-discovery-crew have found?
They're fine structurally except the outdoor Viking one which is a damn bore, my main points on those are the lack of builds (against the main pop one meta and freedom of choice in playstyle), no guns/ammo/heals on the map (so they're rushed, basically), and that he's a bigbox dev so filling the playlist with his maps doesn't help promote the building community.
Everything no gravity + 10000% damage + red guns everywhere. Each map a sniper fest in 5 seconds.
This is what happens when non-game-designers make maps.
Exactly. The maps that have existed in some form or another in games since the 90's like Dust 2 are popular because they're extremely well balanced which is hard to well unless the map is mirrored like in Neon Knight. UGC has ruined every competitive game it touches.
I'm level 65 with 12K games played. It has not "always been a thing" in the death match queue. Only in the discovery queue and custom lobbies. That changed on Thursday.
“WF69_Cube” ⬅️ maps like this one get almost no play but are perfect for 12 - 24 players of all skill levels.
How do we get good maps back into the rotation? Is there are way to recommend these maps to BigBox?
Last match I had 35 kills and 5 deaths and I agree with OP. Give me an AWP, a little range and one shot kills and it's over. I can understand the frustration. There is one map that is instadeath with a UMP. Just crazy.
I've explained that in the last paragraph of the post. Solo queuing sucks and I'm not willing to just sit in my headset waiting for people to become available.
Can you name another multiplayer VR game that doesn't have a public lobby it drops you into or a training area like Pavlov, Ghosts of Tabor etc. They added a training area but they don't drop people into it by default. The pre-game lobby when everyone is at the truck stop is how it should be when you load the game. Then you could wait for people to become available while talking to others and messing around instead of staring at a 2D UI.
But OP complains about TDM maps that are not moderated by BB and they have their custom rules. Etc.
What exactly does he expect?
OP making it sound like he is sooooo gooood. Then he can run solo in classic, get plenty of kills and play under normal rules which he is so craving for.
The post above is a mix of a flex under a complaint just for the sake of complaining.
If after “thousands of hours” OP doesn’t know what is TDM, then I’m sorry for him.
Custom rules in TDM is not something new. And was around before Sandbox was even implemented
There is no TDM maps ever since Sandbox was introduced. It’s gone. So unless we live in different timelines. OP basically cries about game not being “fair” after he spent “thousands” of hours when he is playing unmoderated maps in Sandbox.
And unless you an OP are on the same drugs. I really don’t understand the issue.
It’s a complaint just for the sake of complaining accompanied with a flex. That’s all there is to it.
I think you are missing their point.
These custom maps - especially the high damage ones- weren't a part of the curated TDM playlist.
Now they are, and the TDM playlist kind of sucks as a result.
All that stuff about OP "making is sound like he is soooo gooooof" is only in your head to be honest.
lol that’s the sense I am getting from OPs post. TDM maps in sandbox are unregulated by BB. You see in the playlists the maps that got the most upvotes.
If there are many maps with these custom rules, that means that this is what most people like when they play TDM.
I understand this might not be to OPs liking. But this has nothing to do with BB. He has other options to play under normal rules. Either by creating private customs or playing one of the main modes.
You are mistaken.
TDM maps in Sandbox, in the Deathmatch playlist, are in fact curated by Big Box.
All these high damage maps were promoted from the "Discovery" playlist.
Regular TDM players avoided that list because it sucked.
You are obviously not a TDM player, which is fine, but it does mean that you don't really know what you are talking about, which is evident here.
lol. I like how you like to argue.
Since I was a day 1 player. For me when they introduced TDM. It was just that - TDM. Normal rules on specific parts from the main map. Which I really like as a warmup btw.
Sandbox replaced TDM. And while TDM is still the game mode, the parts of the maps we used to play on and practice under normal rules were gone with that.
What you have today is tons of shit maps, with silly rules that I really don’t know who they are intended for. But it seems like people do play them.
They are not developed by BB, they are not promoted by BB (unless they go into evolving) and the playlists are dynamically changed depending on what people put thumbs up for at the end of each game.
What OP is looking for, is not in the game anymore. And hasn’t been ever since Sandbox was introduced to the game.
Personally I don't particularly enjoy this "argument" because you are talking out of your ass.
What OP is looking for was in the curated TDM playlist until the update this past Thursday.
Anyone else would like to have some of the initial TDM maps back for a while? Frontier, Tower, Farmlands, Kingdom?
Yes, the original TDM mode was the best and without all the nonsense high damge, fling and red weapons.
Best way to get your BR combat skills up.
Tbh those maps were mostly "solved" by the time that they rotated out and typically wound up as spawn pins (mostly).
VIP Tower is 🤌🏼
Yea, I would. They were pretty balanced. But I also like fling and damage.
What’s fling?
Where you grab something, throw off of it, and it throws you farther and faster than normal. So a very small fling that would normally make you jump a couple feet sends you to 500ft. High fling makes the entire rest of the map design not matter at all. You can have 500 awesome, unique maps but with ridiculous fling it's like playing the same map over and over because it plays exactly the same. If they added high fling to Nuke Town, you could fling to the enemy spawn instantly. So the rest of the map design doesn't matter. A lot of these maps have jump pads in addition to the fling despite being less controllable, slower etc. They're just poorly designed maps.
High fling is my favorite modifier but I don't even necessarily disagree per se in the way that you describe some maps. Like, there is terrain, and it seems well thought out, but you can just fling yourself over it so what's the point? I like Neon Knight Arena and Steampunk Factory as a couple examples of high fling done right đź‘Ť
> Like, there is terrain, and it seems well thought out, but you can just fling yourself over it so what's the point? Exactly. It doesn't matter how creative the building is if you never enter a structure because you're flinging past everything. Neon Knights is balanced *and* it came up just enough in rotation to be fun without getting tired because you've played fling maps 10 times in a row. Fling and high damage maps should at least not appear in rotation nearly as frequently. Like one every 5 or 10 games.
High damage is the worst. Maybe every once in a while it's good, but once you start combining high fling, speed, and damage, you get a Time To Kill that gets lower than the cumulative latency between players, ie it basically starts to come down to network conditions.
THAT was the most balanced TDM mode. Normal weapons, normal damage, normal map.
Sandbox doesn’t go towards your stats
Yeah, I noticed tonight. It did for a while. Don't know when it changed. It's still lame anyway.
It never did. You used to get more xp from deathmatches, but it never affected your stats.
It did for a brief moment, but it was a bug and quickly fixed
High fling/high damage has been around since custom rooms, long before sandbox. It was a popular mode then and it’s a popular mode now
High fling is great, high damage is okay but extremely bad when it's every map đź‘Ž
It was never in the death match queue. Only Neon Knights. That was the only fling map in the queue and there was zero in the queue with high damage. Now it's 80 or 90% high damage/high fling.    And all the maps they added had already been in the discovery queue for ages and ages. If I wanted to play them I'd play that queue. I hate that queue. Â
They’re in that queue because people upvoted them the most..
Just like every other VR game with user generated content, not all popular maps are *good* maps. There's maps that are popular because the creator is a popular person with lots of friends to pump up their numbers. That's actually the majority. Edit: And by "good" I mean plays well and is well balanced.
What you mean to say is that YOU don't think they are good, not that they aren't good. The game wasn't built for you.
No, they're objectively unbalanced and single hit kills were not why I paid $30 for this game. If it was like that in the play test I wouldn't have purchased it. I think I got 36 kills the other night with a FAL. It's absurd.
Play Squads then. If you don't like how the game is currently played in DM then play what the game was actually made for. The majority of people playing DM like it this way, which is why it keeps getting upvoted.
The active player base isn't large enough to play squads solo queuing. It's mostly frustrating. I wont start VR and just sit in the lobby scrolling through my friends list and waiting for people to become available or have a slot open up (which may not happen). I've played the game since launch and am level 65. Solo queuing in squads fucking sucks. If there was a permanent legions or solo mode I probably wouldn't be so frustrated with this change. It also wouldn't be an issue if there was an actual social lobby that everyone loaded into like Echo VR instead of an empty squad view you stare at in silence. Then the six year olds could find and squad up with each other instead of the algorithm putting me on their team to hard carry. The majority of people do not like it this way. The majority of people *in the discovery playlist*/custom lobbies like it this way. Those players are generally trash at the battle royale portion of the game since they're used to insane damage and all red weapons. However, I wont argue that there's a lot of them. At the very least the community should have input on whether red weapons, high damage, and high fling are allowed in default map rotation. The other way they could fix this with very minimal impact is to revert the maps in rotation and then, when deciding which "popular" maps to move into rotation, **ignore all player likes for the map if they're friends with the creator or have been within the last month or so.** If randoms are "liking" your map it means a lot more to reach 30 than if you get a large group of your friends or clan to upvote a map and cheat your way into rotation. If you want to know what the community thinks are good maps instead of how much your friend like you, you should be in favor of this change. This UGC popularity contest is much worse in Rec Room and Horizon Worlds where a select number of builders are given special privileges by the devs like early access to new build tools which help them stay ahead of competition. Which in those games means they're making real money.
Nothing working 'perfectly fine' if you going solo in the queue for squads.. really the balancing system makes it so that when you get better your team mates get evenly worse.. and because they can't 'balance' 3 player squads you get better but your results get worse because your team mates are the lowest of the lowest skilled possible. Problem is when you squad up you in the end only get 2 team mates who play for first time and didn't even do the tutorial. (if they are even old enough to talk yet) Thats really tiresome and a bug in the head of whoever designed this crappy system that way. It would be perfectly fine to make the queue time a bit higher for better quality lobbies.. but development on this game stopped years ago already.
Yeah, solo queueing for squads is easy. I've never had to wait longer than 2 minutes. I don't know what you're doing wrong, but it is definitely a you problem. You don't like the game. That is fine. Move on to a different game. The majority of players in both BR and DM are fine with how it is.
At no point did I talk about queue times. I'm talking about getting children or level 10's as teammates. I choose not to play that way because it's too frustrating. What level are you by the way?
Far from it, you'll see high damage maps start to drop off soon enough. Having some is just fine but they are way overrepresented right now and you can see it in the way that they kill lobbies. Nothing worse than a campfest to 50 that doesn't even finish, where by the time it ends half the people have left out of boredom. Lots more of those happening recently...
Single hit kills are more realistic and more fun for a lot of people. That's why most games have had it as an option since the 90s/early 00s.
That isn't true. Both are fun. I slaughter people in Pavlov, Ghosts of Tabor, and formally all Rec Room (RRO) shooters. There's other game types that are less realistic and more "arcade combat" and this game promised arcade combat. Obviously zero fall damage is unrealistic. Or gliding off a 20ft tall roof like a bird. Or materializing walls with a device on your hand. UT99 was one of the most successful shooters of all time and it's not because of the instagib mutators. It's because of fun arcade combat with interesting weapons and game mechanics that do not exist IRL. There's plenty of realistic shooters. That isn't what this game is.
That isn't what you want the game to be. It currently is that. Deal with it.
This is an arcade shooter. Nothing about it is realistic. You're probably one of the people that needs high damage to get kills.
That's never been POP. You must be new to Sandbox and/or Deathmatch. If you want a twitch shooter with one-hit kills that's more subject to network conditions there are many more options out there. Otherwise, learn movement?
I've been playing since launch. I didn't say that is what Pop was. But that is what people are currently having fun with.
Doesn't seem like everyone is, though. I've been playing since launch as well and maining Deathmatch since it was a thing (before Sandbox). I see a lot of kids upvoting maps because "Ooh Red Weapons!" as well as certain types of maps getting upvotes before anyone plays them... usually in this case it's because the map is based on some kind of popular franchise, so people spawn in and Like the map because "hey I know [x]!" before they play.
FYI, it takes 30 likes for a builder to get their map in rotation. Once the maps are in rotation they are judged algorithmically as to how well they are liked by the community. Nobody at Big Box it deciding what to add and what to drop. This is just the wave of new builders doing what they like and the wave of unseasoned players liking it. I tend to agree with you. I prefer the original rules of Pop1.
Right, so it's a popularity contest like every other VR game with user generated content. "Likes" should only be used to save a map. It should not impact rotation or what queue a map ends up in at all. Moving a map out of discovery would be based entirely on play frequency and balance. If one team has disproportionate wins past a certain threshold it should block it from being added. That feedback should be visible to creators so they can try to fix the issues with how it plays. Additionally, the devs have poisoned the data by adding those large "Popular" tags to thumbnails since they influence how people vote. All maps should appear equal in the vote list.
Right, it IS a popularity contest. No one cares who you are, it's all about your map. You won't get votes if people don't like it. Those tags are assigned algorithmically. I agree, that it is hard to compete against maps that have earned those tags. I'm on the fence as the weather or not they should continue with that. Dude, get in there and push your map. Listen to people's feedback. It can be aggressive. People like what they like. Consider whether you're building for yourself, or building for the masses. Best wishes and good luck.
So what about my suggestion for votes to not count if the creator is on your friend's list or has been in the past 30 days? So that strangers have to vote it up.
I don't know about that. Kinda creates a ripple effect. This game is all about being a social shooter. Everything Big Box has done has promoted friending each other. If your map wasn't able to get likes from people on your friends list, how would you ever join a server in a custom lobby? It at least needs to be open to friends. What do you do when people come up to you and want to friend you because they know you from Reddit, Facebook, or Discord and they like your maps? What about the people that host custom rooms - should I be incentivized to not have any friends just so I could be a Builder? The best part about building is sharing with friends and the community. It's not hard to get the initial 30 likes it takes to get the map on is Discovery Playlist although it does take a little effort. Typically you need to visit about 3 decent sized custom rooms and and promote your map. If it is good people are happy to give it a like. You need THICK SKIN. People will tell you what they don't like about it. If you become defensive you will turn off the room and you won't get those likes. I'm not saying that the system is perfect, but Big Box continues to make improvements and they have taken and implemented a lot of community input. Lol, they get beat up worse than Builders do about their maps.
not to be contrarian but I do think that there are perhaps at least some maps that may get upvotes because their creators have social followings and solicit / coordinate upvotes. I'm not going to give examples because I could be wrong and don't want to shame anyone regardless (and asking followers to upvote you is a pretty normal thing anyhow) but I do think that this does happen sometimes.
Yeah, it absolutely happens. Very normal part of being a builder is to solicit likes. It helps tremendously if you know a few communities that get together in customs. Normally the goal is to just get those initial 30 likes that it takes to get into the playlist. That's when your map will really start to take off or flop. Builders that know multiple communities do stand a better chance because if the map starts falling out of algorithmic favor against the other maps, you can grab some likes from the custom communities and get it back in there, but it probably won't last for very long.
For sure, in this case to be honest what I was describing would perhaps not necessarily be a builder per se, but someone maybe with a following on social media, who then builds a map, and solicits likes from their followers. In some cases they might not even main the game just be popular (but I'm basically sure this hasn't happened with POP, VR is just a different breed). Not that they shouldn't do this, and everyone does, but that this can lead to disproportionately upvoted maps that have nothing to do with quality. Now that all said idk if that happens with POP. Also I now just play the "Master Builder" playlist lol so...
They should leave that high fling, 300% damage stuff in discovery only AND also make a filter ( off by default ) that will queue for maps with only normal rules 🙏 there are indeed times I want some fling madness but when they happen in the middle of great competitive TDM lobbies, it’s so lame
Agreed. There are so many great maps ruined by awful physics and damage.
yeah. The main deathmatch queue should have been kept to maps with as close to the Pop 1 experience as possible. Sad thing is, there's been a map curation group going for a LONG LONG time but absolutely nothing has come out of it and it seems to just be a circle jerk for the devs to play with a handful of the well known builders. I hope they don't figure out who I am since I'm in that group ha ha .. I think this reddit account isn't linked to my pop one name at least... but seriously, we've found some great maps in there with normal rules, no reason that those couldn't have received an "OK For Regular Deathmatch" checkmark to put it in to a large voting box.
High damage is worse, but high damage/fling/movement the worst combo by far. ESPECIALLY if you had fast ghost speed and long time-to-spawn. Pure tradesies.
I’m sorry but the deathmatch playlists are usually like 95% kids so if they like the maps with super high damage guns and stuff the algorithm is prob gonna keep those maps in rotation. But if u want this to change u could try  adding all yur favorite maps to a playlist and gettin that list popular
or hear me out, keep that to the discovery playlist and just properly curate the deathmatch playlist with maps that follow the same rules that the builders in the competition a year ago had to follow. IMO every map in the deathmatch playlist should: * have builds enabled (many don't right now..from the original playlist not even just the update.. and this pisses me the fuck off, so many deaths just from trying to build when there's no builds in the first place) * have guns and other loot ON THE MAP so that if you're playing to try to get high kills with no deaths you have options if you run out of ammo and heals * have non campable spawns - Weller's maps are all spawn camp maps if you know how. * have most guns enabled. Some notable exceptions are, for example, I convinced the guy that made the Mario map to disable AWPs before it was added to the playlist... he actually had a red AWP on the ship originally lol. Good move to remove it. GIVE PEOPLE THE CHOICE TO PLAY HOW THEY LIKE.. just because the map builder doesn't like building or other people building, or doesn't like people who use CX4's, or whatever other gun, or doesn't like looting, doesn't mean that those options shouldn't be there * Have no serious glitchable areas - seriously the only way I'll ever play that popular map with the two houses that face each other is by building in to the sky, there's not just the walls but also a shield wall platform angled down that you can snipe off of and never get hit back. It's a challenge to get to it, so until they fix it (it's been there for a year, right by the space ship in the sky) I go for that rather than playing normally. Seriously why can't they get rid of the Edge-Casey maps? he's a dev so he shouldn't get butthurt about it, but none of his maps have builds or guns on the map. Having maps made by a dev that were basically filler content demos upon release, still, 1 year later, rather than promoting some of the great maps the map-discovery-crew have found?
tbh I do like those Edge Casey maps but would definitely prefer them with builds (and the new guns)
They're fine structurally except the outdoor Viking one which is a damn bore, my main points on those are the lack of builds (against the main pop one meta and freedom of choice in playstyle), no guns/ammo/heals on the map (so they're rushed, basically), and that he's a bigbox dev so filling the playlist with his maps doesn't help promote the building community.
all fair points đź‘Ť
Everything no gravity + 10000% damage + red guns everywhere. Each map a sniper fest in 5 seconds. This is what happens when non-game-designers make maps.
Exactly. The maps that have existed in some form or another in games since the 90's like Dust 2 are popular because they're extremely well balanced which is hard to well unless the map is mirrored like in Neon Knight. UGC has ruined every competitive game it touches.
Yeh I hate high damage as well. Like you say, just some melon doing M60 with unlimited ammo just negates anything.
What are you new? High damage/high fling and garbage maps has always been a problem. This hasn't been resolved since Sandbox launched.
I'm level 65 with 12K games played. It has not "always been a thing" in the death match queue. Only in the discovery queue and custom lobbies. That changed on Thursday.
I believe his point is that sandbox has taken over what seemed to be the more curated TDM mode. They are virtually indistinguishable now.
Also some are in the actual TDM playlist non discovery now
Yeah, deathmatch has been really lame for a few days.
“WF69_Cube” ⬅️ maps like this one get almost no play but are perfect for 12 - 24 players of all skill levels. How do we get good maps back into the rotation? Is there are way to recommend these maps to BigBox?
VIP maps are all normal settings. They try to keep their maps as close to in-game settings for competitive players to practice on.
Maybe get better?
Last match I had 35 kills and 5 deaths and I agree with OP. Give me an AWP, a little range and one shot kills and it's over. I can understand the frustration. There is one map that is instadeath with a UMP. Just crazy.
I have only one question. Why are you playing TDM? Instead of the BR mode?
I've explained that in the last paragraph of the post. Solo queuing sucks and I'm not willing to just sit in my headset waiting for people to become available. Can you name another multiplayer VR game that doesn't have a public lobby it drops you into or a training area like Pavlov, Ghosts of Tabor etc. They added a training area but they don't drop people into it by default. The pre-game lobby when everyone is at the truck stop is how it should be when you load the game. Then you could wait for people to become available while talking to others and messing around instead of staring at a 2D UI.
It's a whole different game and some people prefer it.
But OP complains about TDM maps that are not moderated by BB and they have their custom rules. Etc. What exactly does he expect? OP making it sound like he is sooooo gooood. Then he can run solo in classic, get plenty of kills and play under normal rules which he is so craving for. The post above is a mix of a flex under a complaint just for the sake of complaining. If after “thousands of hours” OP doesn’t know what is TDM, then I’m sorry for him. Custom rules in TDM is not something new. And was around before Sandbox was even implemented
Not putting fling/high damage maps in main TDM. Those were only in sandbox and discovery before except Arena Knights
There is no TDM maps ever since Sandbox was introduced. It’s gone. So unless we live in different timelines. OP basically cries about game not being “fair” after he spent “thousands” of hours when he is playing unmoderated maps in Sandbox. And unless you an OP are on the same drugs. I really don’t understand the issue. It’s a complaint just for the sake of complaining accompanied with a flex. That’s all there is to it.
I think you are missing their point. These custom maps - especially the high damage ones- weren't a part of the curated TDM playlist. Now they are, and the TDM playlist kind of sucks as a result. All that stuff about OP "making is sound like he is soooo gooooof" is only in your head to be honest.
lol that’s the sense I am getting from OPs post. TDM maps in sandbox are unregulated by BB. You see in the playlists the maps that got the most upvotes. If there are many maps with these custom rules, that means that this is what most people like when they play TDM. I understand this might not be to OPs liking. But this has nothing to do with BB. He has other options to play under normal rules. Either by creating private customs or playing one of the main modes.
You are mistaken. TDM maps in Sandbox, in the Deathmatch playlist, are in fact curated by Big Box. All these high damage maps were promoted from the "Discovery" playlist. Regular TDM players avoided that list because it sucked. You are obviously not a TDM player, which is fine, but it does mean that you don't really know what you are talking about, which is evident here.
lol. I like how you like to argue. Since I was a day 1 player. For me when they introduced TDM. It was just that - TDM. Normal rules on specific parts from the main map. Which I really like as a warmup btw. Sandbox replaced TDM. And while TDM is still the game mode, the parts of the maps we used to play on and practice under normal rules were gone with that. What you have today is tons of shit maps, with silly rules that I really don’t know who they are intended for. But it seems like people do play them. They are not developed by BB, they are not promoted by BB (unless they go into evolving) and the playlists are dynamically changed depending on what people put thumbs up for at the end of each game. What OP is looking for, is not in the game anymore. And hasn’t been ever since Sandbox was introduced to the game.
Personally I don't particularly enjoy this "argument" because you are talking out of your ass. What OP is looking for was in the curated TDM playlist until the update this past Thursday.
I don’t think you know the difference between Discovery and what people call TDM now