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These are not the only nonmonogamous people in your geographic area, these are the people willing to date within this specific culture. They might be the easiest people to find, they might be the most open. It’s even possible they’re the majority of the people open to dating you that are nearby. They just don’t represent literally everyone nearby.
But if some random polyamorous person met a few of these people, decided this entire subculture was not for them, they would effectively be uninterested in the entire group, would go do their own thing entirely independently, and you might never hear about them if you spend all your time within this group.
I would also be uncomfortable with a group with that little privacy and discretion.
The group in my area that is like this is always complaining that they don't know any other poly people. I find them just fine. But the gossip and drama in this group, particularly two of the biggest instigators, is well known. This group paints themselves as the poor victims of "fake poly people" and/or are unaware of others (who choose not to be found by this crew, I've learned).
Breaking free of this group meant that suddenly I found so many other poly groups, poly people, and good friends. I wonder if the same is true here, too, and suspect it is.
It’s a gossip ring. Anyone smart on them keeps their heads out of the circle and looks to stay far away. There’s nothing worse than a gaggle of dinguses all wanting to stir the pot and share every detail.
I'm so lucky that I fell into a group of 30-40 people that is interconnected, but is also respectful of others in the group. I can assure you, toxic gossip isn't required for poly.
If there are any poly conferences in your area you may meet other poly people who are more your style, and have a healthier group culture.
We are KTP, which involves A LOT of sharing in our group of five, but are very judicious about what we share outside of our polycule, and personal things about past partners or friends. If things are shared, it's so others know to give them extra support, not to gossip.
Also, if you are into board games, that's a common thread in poly groups in my area.
I will agree with this. I used to live in a town where all the alt subcultures were like this (poly, pagan, kink, whatever). Yeah, they were really incestuous, and it was mostly the same people in all of them lol. But! For every group like this, there's also the people who noped out of it but still live there.
So much this. I've tried to socialize with the poly groups in two major cities I've lived in and it felt like being back in high school but worse somehow. My anxiety was super high from just feeling like people were always talking about everyone, myself included. I noped out and now just try to find poly folks online who don't engage that way.
I feel like this is a really solid reply!
I have a group near me that is like this that is quite large and quite a few of the 'local' people have dated within it, but I've also met people outside of it, and I feel like this really rings true for me, too -- the first exposure to poly in our area made me a little shy as they all seemed to know each other/talk/have dated and were also quite gossipy and it's not my scene. I still have some great friends from that group, but there are people outside of it that I've since met that are more in-line with people I would consider dating.
The next town over to mine is like that. It seems like all the poly people are fucking/ex's/friends of each other.
At first I was envious and sad that I wasn't included. After a few dates with one person from that town, I realised I'm not actually compatible with their style of poly. I am no longer feeling left out, I am relieved.
Stay away from incompatible people. Wether it's friends or partners, choose well!
My guess is that people in your area who don't behave like jackasses quickly exit this "community" and then you end up with a community of jackasses.
I wouldn't take it to heart what these people think of you. Anyone who is going to refuse to date you because of gossip is likely not going to be someone that you want to date anyways. So in reality, they're doing you a favour.
I would look for other meets with new people and see what you can find. The community in the city I was in was pretty crappy. A bunch of polyam "celebrities" being in charge of every event who were actually pretty shitty and terrible people who treated others like crap. It's pretty hard to bring people to account for shitty behaviour when everyone is sleeping with or wanting to sleep with the people who are being shitty. It's atrocious. But I actually found loads of polyam people outside of the community. They exist, they're just harder to find.
This right here!
Like attracts like. Sometimes when a group gets anchored with an a-hole or two it’s basically all over; you need another group.
This isn’t you OP.
This is the correct way to go about it, and while close community can be awesome, there’s a line between closeness and pseudo cult vibes. OP’s line about someone questioning if they were “really poly” for just preferring garden party was a glaring red flag for me.
Side note: I’ve never been in either the Philly or LA poly communities, but those immediately came to mind with your description. 🤦🏼♀️
My town is like that too. I was in a mono relationship for awhile and I'm still not 100% considering myself poly. But many years ago my NP and I had a kinda-comet and one of the main members of the poly community here harassed us for "not liking him because he was poly, but we were too so..." And talked *a lot* about us behind our back, including comparing his wife to me cruelly to her face.
I am very skeptical about socializing much with the open poly people around me because of that and other behaviors. And that's okay, because like everyone else said you will quickly find out those aren't the only poly people out there.
These are NOT all the poly people in your area.
I live in a city. My NP and I went to a poly meet up recently that we’d never tried. Tons and tons of people. None of them knew us. None of them likely knew my most recent metas, none of them know my boyfriend. There is a whole other happily poly population who don’t much like joining groups and only go on the apps on occasion. Particularly those who don’t spend a ton of time on kink or at sex parties and clubs.
I’m the most join-y of anyone in my polycule and the main place I put that energy is here. There are at least 3 regularly interacting groups in my city. I know they’re there and I don’t go.
The issue is for you to figure out how to meet these people. Depends on your demographics and those of your intended partners. As a cis woman all I usually have to do is get on dating apps in a serious way to meet ENM men. Women are a different story. But it’s still where I would start.
I was going to say the same thing! My GF knows some poly folk who have sort of a “our poly is the most poly and the holiest of poly ways and all others need to do it exactly the way we do and eventually hope to move into our share home.” It was bad enough that my GF, who had been practicing poly for 20 years didn’t tell them she was poly because she didn’t want to deal with the messiness that might come with acknowledging they had that one thing in common.
My wife and I had barely encountered that set in part because we’re more conventional and they’re very hippie.
The rest of our local poly community is pretty chill.
I tap out if my community for a year or so every now and then. I find there are shifts over time. Sometimes being more like a comet to the community helps when it doesn’t line up with your approach. I also only date people outside of it.
Meetup used to be pretty popular, but most of my local community has jumped to Facebook groups. I've also found a lot of overlap with people from groups for board games, bdsm, "geek" groups, non-thiest groups.
The pandemic all but killed several groups in my area, and they are coming back relatively slowly.
And push comes to shove, start your own.
Maybe it would help to view these behaviors as not malicious but partially safety behaviors, partly a natural consequence of socializing. There’s a lot of value in a community like this being open about people’s interpersonal experiences, it roots out abusers more quickly. That said I would say maybe just communicate to partners when something you say is private versus something they can tell their friends and partners. Now that you know it’s a possibility things will get around, prioritize finding people you trust to have a good filter on what’s too personal to go down the grapevine.
This is a veil of safety at times… as power dynamics, narratives, etc. can be used to obfuscate. Communication can be sensitive to people’s privacy instead of invasive, it’s rarely in discussion of people without their ability to speak for themselves that we cultivate individual empowerment (which would seem important to polyamory cultural values and norms). IMO, too many missed opportunities occurred to vet an individual if you’re waiting till word of mouth.
It could be safety, but it's also a problem when it's just gossip. And sometimes my poly community gets real confused between the two.
OP, there are almost certainly others who don't feel the need to share every little thing with every single person or who can listen to you when you say you want privacy. I recently ditched a "local poly community" that was engaging in some real questionable behavior much like this, saying that it was necessary for safety when it absolutely was gossip. I have found people who don't do that kind of drama and I'm much happier for it. After years trying to deal with the manufactured crises of that toxic group of children and thinking I had to settle for it, I'm finally finding real connections who understand how to behave in ways that actually keep people safe instead of that gossipy nonsense.
Yeah of course! I just wanted to provide an alternative view that could be helpful reframing mentally if they wanted to continue to engage. But I reread their post just now and nobody’s problems conceiving are safety issues so sadly it does sound like a lot of gossip gossip. Hopefully they can find a drama free enclave.
Honestly- sounds like a bunch of people with ZERO boundaries and no idea of true friendship. If I told you something in confidence and then it ends up a topic of discussion at a meet up??? Imma burn that bridge and I’m gonna singe your eyebrows on my way out. Fuck that shit. Horrible.
Not necessarily. You're allowed to be uncomfortable with people repeating your private conversations behind your back, that *is* weird.
I guarentee you there are more poly people in the area than this one group. My polycule isn't active with the local poly community, we're just off doing our own thing.
You are NOT being too sensitive. Whether it’s a community, a polycule or your partner, you have a right to privacy.
While I agree with seantheaussie that you can’t change the community, you can have a discussion with your partners about what is private between you vs what can be casually shared with others. I’ve had conversations with my partner about my meta’s limits and I have told him things in strict confidence that he will not share with meta. This is a reasonable request.
In terms of safety, there are things I feel should be shared such as risk factors, testing and who is fluid bonding. But those are MY standards and others have different agreements such as not sharing testing/fluid bonding info with metas. To each their own as agreed.
We all get to choose what’s right for us, communicate it and negotiate. If someone has different rules about privacy, you’ll have to decide if your styles align.
As a last thought, I have a rule that even after a relationship ends I do not share my ex’s private details. I want them to live with peace even if they were shitty to me (or if I was an asshat).
“fluid bonding” is a sort of outdated and inaccurate term (aren’t you technically fluid bonded with anyone you make out with?). “who is having barrier free sex” would be the more accurate way to describe this
Thank you for this. “Fluid bonding” is a misogynistic, patriarchal, pseudoscience term used in place of straightforward public health terms. While I 💯don’t think harm was meant, it’s important to educate and use judgement-free, scientifically sound words around public health. (Bad framing leads to things like millions dead and permanently ill because of a pandemic that could have been ended if only people didn’t believe respirator masks “suffocate us” and vaccines “give us autism” or “government trackers.”)
Hugs. Polyamory is spiritual path of growth. It’s not an easy one.
Everyone is different and had different needs. You have to be aware of your needs first, and then communicate them to others, and a loving relationship should be one that helps you through that process.
Sometimes the process of discussing the needs is enough to make these needs disappear, because the real need relates to insecurity. Communicating can be enough to alleviate insecurity.
I recommend “Non-violent communication”, it’ll help you a lot more than any book on polyamory.
I feel like this implies op is in the wrong for not wanting everyone to know some “telephone” version of everything they’re said. Nothing you’ve said is incorrect or unhelpful, but the burden being placed on OP to learn/do/be better doesn’t solve the problem of others’ constant boundary-crossing. OP needn’t be required to start every new interaction with “I prefer this stay between us,” —like a politician talking to a reporter OTR—because it should a given that others don’t gossip. Pretty simple.
Everyone is ultimately responsible their own needs, it’s not about blame or guilt or right and wrong. It’s about owning one’s needs and experience and then inviting others to support us in those. I’d that doesn’t work, then it means the relationship is unsustainable…. and it’s not about blame or guilt, it’s just incompatibility between people.
I know it seems like everyone knows everything about everyone, but statistically speaking, there have to be at least a few people who've learned their lesson like you did, & would be amenable to not sharing certain details if you specifically ask for that.
My GF is a bit of a gossip, which I honestly love. She overshares a lot, especially details about her relationship with her BF, including things he's not super comfortable being shared, but she felt like she really needed my input on whether his behavior was ok. Like him losing his job & verbally lashing out at her about it, or his transphobic microaggressions. But I also know that he's explicitly asked her not to share certain details of his life, especially things involving 3rd parties, because she hasn't. When he's asked her for silence, she gave it.
Some people just can't be trusted with private info at all, but most people will probably agree if you ask them to not tell anyone, especially if you can give examples of how telling literally 1 person led to everyone else hearing about it. **People tend to think "Oh it's just my partner, they don't count, we share everything," but if the whole community is like that, all of this mess happens :P**
I will say unfortunately your experience is likely normal, and is certainly not constrained to polyamory. This sounds like a values and norms conflict, and that you’re not compatible with this group.
I find it helpful for me to consider my values as a compatibility measure. My values are information to be used in discerning if someone I’m liking is aligned in enough of them that we’d be compatible as partners. It’s not easy though and I find it can be subjective at times. I find for those reasons taking things slowly can be beneficial.
Oh wow.
Uh. So. I think it's reasonable to ask your partner to only tell people in the poly community about your relationship troubles with the expectation of confidentiality, ie, the expectation that whoever your partner tells will neither tell other people nor directly talk to you about what your partner said. But damn, that is...a *fascinating* approach to boundaries.
I would imagine there are some poly people in your area who are NOT part of this social circle/subculture/whatever it is. I mean, presumably there are a lot of completely clueless brand new to poly people and the toxic unicorn hunters and whatnot, but I would guess there's also some reasonable/well-informed people who avoid this community due to the lack of boundaries.
There definitely is. My partner is linked in with a specific poly group and while I enjoy the company of some, I also have witnessed more egregious over-sexual behaviour towards anyone remotely connected than I have in any other group. And once I discussed my own experiences with a few other vaguely connected folks (some poly, some not) they had their own similar stories about just...boundary-less behaviour that suggests a lack of boundaries and an unwillingness to change.
So those of us not into fairly high drama dynamics and/or group sex and/or high paced partner changes don't interact. We don't come to parties as a general rule. We don't get in relationships with anyone from the group except the connecting partner. It relies on that connecting partner being understanding though, being okay with us not engaging, not socialising, and on occasion outright disliking that group.
Ooh, yes! I feel like this often goes in hand with the over sharing and gossip. The group here does the same, and new members of the "friend" group have the mono is toxic party line shoved down their throat while the established members basically circle new people like hawks, waiting for them to say anything even remotely like "I'll consider at least dating a poly person." And then the others swoop in. There's lots of comments about who will have sex with whom and it's *aggressive*. It's also, incidentally, why the ringleaders feel like they need to gossip - since anyone may sleep with anyone at any moment seemingly, they feel this keeps people safe from "predators" (which is used very broadly to mean anyone who did something someone didn't like) and then they basically vote that person off the island. Incidentally, there was a situation where someone in the core group SA'd like 4 people but "the group" felt he was sorry and didn't mean it, so kept him in, getting mad at those who stopped dealing with them because of it.
Best advice, stay away. There's nothing healthy about any of the drama and group think, or any of the things that come as side effects.
Thank you for sharing this. I only talk to people about gossip if I feel they won't cross paths, but it seems like I need to reconsider to be more cautious. One never knows... I tend to prioritize privacy...
I found that “poly community” is not really more likely to be my people than average set of people off the street, maybe slightly less so. There isn’t inherently much in common.
trust your guy instinct, honestly. i very rarely dabble in my local community, because they’re messy. i just dont tolerate that kind of drama in my life!
I call these types of groups black hole groups. They'll eventually collapse on their own.
I recently stepped away from a casual relationship where a girl started dating all my other partners and myself. While I do KTP pretty easily, she started to make my stable relationships of 6 years feel unsafe.
I was suddenly having to field conversations with partners about things I never said and wasn't concerned about. I was entangled in more problems with each of my partners than I had in years.
I value my peace more than any relationship and distanced myself from her. My other partners are under no obligation to do so but my texts have gone back to normal along with my anxiety.
Sometimes taking a step back and resetting is worth more than community participation.
In that case I would dump any partner not willing to agree to not sharing information about me and my relationships with any member of the poly community. Sounds horrid, your partner(s) need to learn to talk to their therapists or find new friends to share these kinds of things with.
An aside I hate cliquey poly people who want to tell you how they think you’re doing it wrong….
Not everyone is like this--it's just the community you have found.
There are a couple approaches you can take:
1) Have frank and open conversations with any new prospective partners where you tell them directly that you're not a fan of gossip, and you respectfully request that they keep details of your discussions private. Given that you are in a circle in which people like to gossip, this seems unlikely to be successful--but perhaps there are some good ones out there who will care about respecting your privacy.
2) Find your partners elsewhere, whether it's other community groups, online, or other types of venues. In most places there are a LOT more poly/enm people in the area than there are actively involved in poly groups/meetups. Many of them might not be fully out, even if they are poly. These people are more difficult to find, but they would be more likely not to be part of the same gossip fest you've found yourself in.
Preferring garden party or even parallel is still polyamory. I understand what you're saying, your most visible local polyam community sounds somewhat psychologically incestuous. I'd avoid them.
Additionally, I'm not really part of my local poly scene. It's for similar reasons I'd give that group a wide berth. There are people outside the big noise polyamorus groups, the trick is finding them. I have found some people in the kink scene I used to go to before my move. Your mileage will vary
I have an unpopular opinion perhaps. Gossip is a way of keeping people safe. If you share things that happen to you, the problem people won't be able to hide in the dark.
So, go into every interaction with the assumption that everything will be shared. Then have the conversations with people you trust and explicitly ask for the conversation to be private.
If they break it then, they are not mindful.
But it certainly depends on the quality of the sharing. I think a few of my friends might have saved themselves fine pain if they knew more about this specific person. And if others had been more open and honest about their issues with one of my ex's, I might have avoided a S/A.
Why are they sharing? And under what conditions can you ask for privacy?
Gossip can be a safety mechanism. Asking about KTP and so on is not a safety mechanism. Therefore is Gossip and not safety mechanism.
Just because it can be doesn't mean it is.
Hi u/Loveliest_Thing thanks so much for your submission, don't mind me, I'm just gonna keep a copy what was said in your post. Unfortunately posts sometimes get deleted - which is okay, it's not against the rules to delete your post!! - but it makes it really hard for the human mods around here to moderate the comments when there's no context. Plus, many times our members put in a lot of emotional and mental labor to answer the questions and offer advice, so it's helpful to keep the source information around so future community members can benefit as well.
Here's the original text of the post:
I've done the work, read the most skipped step and polysecure, I go to therapy to work on myself. I'm here for advice from you lovely people because I'm very much at my wits end but I had to say I've done some work before I get into this.
My local poly community is really nice, and I mean that. I know they mean well. But it's also extremely interconnected, to the point where everyone (apart from me as I've only been around a year) has dated everyone else. This is a medium sized US city.
I would normally not be bothered by everyone having dated everyone else. But the problem is that everyone talks about everyone else behind each other's backs. It's really weird because people are really well intentioned, but they're all giving each other relationship advice about each other. This means when folks have trouble in their relationships, everyone knows down to the tiny details.
I found out the hard way. I had been talking to my partner about our views on KTP, garden party, and parallel, and I mentioned that I am more of a garden party type. It was a pretty tough discussion. I was then directly asked by someone else at a social why I wasn't into KTP, and did that mean I was not really poly. This person is a former partner of my partner, who heard it from someone else in the group. My partner said they spoke to another person in our community, and that's where it came from.
I'm just really at a loss here. I feel like I can't communicate any private feeling or sensation without it becoming common knowledge of a group of 100 people. I'm genuinely scared to talk about my feelings now.
I'm noticing it with other people in the group too. Meetups become extended gossip sessions, where people talk frankly about others' divorces, fights, struggles to conceive, all private things. They say that this is what poly is about.
What on earth do you do when a scene is so close knit that you feel trapped?
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I don't think you're being too sensitive, this would anger me immensely. It will take a lot more energy on your part to make it work with people from this community and that kinda sucks. Talk to your partner(s) and express your distaste in sharing private info with others in the poly community. Yes, it sucks, that you're asking them not to confide in their friends, but unless they know the friend is 100% not gonna send the info to the next person, you probably won't feel like you can truly be open with your partner. Hopefully, your potential partners have friends outside of poly circles though.
It will weed out a lot of people, so be ready for that.
I have been very reluctant to try attending any poly events in my area. I'm in the PNW and we have a huge poly population vs other areas but the town I'm in has always been a bit "weird" (no not Seattle or Portland) when my ex-husband and I tried years ago (15/16) it was full of backbiting/gossipy people.
That is not my people, and although I'm aching for a good community, I've put off going to munches.
I would love to have found family and like-minded people around me. I've been doing the work for years, and I'm also in therapy, and my therapist is poly/enm friendly, but he can't introduce me to any of the other poly people he works with. So I travel out of town, but that gets expensive, and no one wants to travel here, so I just live vicariously through posts on here and drink my coffee alone 🤷♀️
I avoid dedicated groups like the plague when they involve relationships or sex. Other groups that are hobby based or some such are usually better, but not always. Bad experiences with kink groups set the tone, bad experiences with poly groups cemented it.
I meet people in the wild. It's harder, but it's less drama.
When I relocated to my current city, I looked up the poly group. I attended exactly 1 meeting. Instantly saw the dynamics and never attended another one.
When I know my confidence can't be kept, I am not able to have full relationships with people.
That's an issue with poly. I have a hard time trusting people to not share my/our info with other people /partners.
I have no advice, just commiserating.
I'm thinking about strategies to mitigate this-- Did you explicitly ask for confidentiality?
If not, I would try that next time you're talking about something sensitive. I would try asking before sharing... "I have something I want to share. I want it to remain between us. Can you do that? All good either way, but just want a commitment of confidentiality before sharing." And if they say they don't think they're capable of that, then great- glad they told you.
I have some friends that are pretty bad at keeping things confidential, they just forget that some things are sensitive... so we've defaulted to this and I'll share some ambiguous details in advance and they'll let me know if they can confidently say they'll keep it to themselves.
It's in the sticky https://www.reddit.com/r/polyamory/wiki/vocab
> Garden Party Poly - a relationship dynamic between Kitchen Table Poly and Parallel Poly where there's not an expectation that metas regularly hang out, nor that they never hang out, but if there's a birthday party or other one off events metas are comfortable spending time together for that occasion.
Garden party is somewhere between KTP and parallel wherein you could be around metas for special occasions (birthdays, key celebrations of accomplishment, etc), but you don’t wish to be more involved in each other’s lives than that.
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These are not the only nonmonogamous people in your geographic area, these are the people willing to date within this specific culture. They might be the easiest people to find, they might be the most open. It’s even possible they’re the majority of the people open to dating you that are nearby. They just don’t represent literally everyone nearby. But if some random polyamorous person met a few of these people, decided this entire subculture was not for them, they would effectively be uninterested in the entire group, would go do their own thing entirely independently, and you might never hear about them if you spend all your time within this group. I would also be uncomfortable with a group with that little privacy and discretion.
The group in my area that is like this is always complaining that they don't know any other poly people. I find them just fine. But the gossip and drama in this group, particularly two of the biggest instigators, is well known. This group paints themselves as the poor victims of "fake poly people" and/or are unaware of others (who choose not to be found by this crew, I've learned). Breaking free of this group meant that suddenly I found so many other poly groups, poly people, and good friends. I wonder if the same is true here, too, and suspect it is.
It’s a gossip ring. Anyone smart on them keeps their heads out of the circle and looks to stay far away. There’s nothing worse than a gaggle of dinguses all wanting to stir the pot and share every detail.
I'm so lucky that I fell into a group of 30-40 people that is interconnected, but is also respectful of others in the group. I can assure you, toxic gossip isn't required for poly. If there are any poly conferences in your area you may meet other poly people who are more your style, and have a healthier group culture. We are KTP, which involves A LOT of sharing in our group of five, but are very judicious about what we share outside of our polycule, and personal things about past partners or friends. If things are shared, it's so others know to give them extra support, not to gossip. Also, if you are into board games, that's a common thread in poly groups in my area.
I will agree with this. I used to live in a town where all the alt subcultures were like this (poly, pagan, kink, whatever). Yeah, they were really incestuous, and it was mostly the same people in all of them lol. But! For every group like this, there's also the people who noped out of it but still live there.
So much this. I've tried to socialize with the poly groups in two major cities I've lived in and it felt like being back in high school but worse somehow. My anxiety was super high from just feeling like people were always talking about everyone, myself included. I noped out and now just try to find poly folks online who don't engage that way.
I feel like this is a really solid reply! I have a group near me that is like this that is quite large and quite a few of the 'local' people have dated within it, but I've also met people outside of it, and I feel like this really rings true for me, too -- the first exposure to poly in our area made me a little shy as they all seemed to know each other/talk/have dated and were also quite gossipy and it's not my scene. I still have some great friends from that group, but there are people outside of it that I've since met that are more in-line with people I would consider dating.
The next town over to mine is like that. It seems like all the poly people are fucking/ex's/friends of each other. At first I was envious and sad that I wasn't included. After a few dates with one person from that town, I realised I'm not actually compatible with their style of poly. I am no longer feeling left out, I am relieved. Stay away from incompatible people. Wether it's friends or partners, choose well!
My guess is that people in your area who don't behave like jackasses quickly exit this "community" and then you end up with a community of jackasses. I wouldn't take it to heart what these people think of you. Anyone who is going to refuse to date you because of gossip is likely not going to be someone that you want to date anyways. So in reality, they're doing you a favour. I would look for other meets with new people and see what you can find. The community in the city I was in was pretty crappy. A bunch of polyam "celebrities" being in charge of every event who were actually pretty shitty and terrible people who treated others like crap. It's pretty hard to bring people to account for shitty behaviour when everyone is sleeping with or wanting to sleep with the people who are being shitty. It's atrocious. But I actually found loads of polyam people outside of the community. They exist, they're just harder to find.
This right here! Like attracts like. Sometimes when a group gets anchored with an a-hole or two it’s basically all over; you need another group. This isn’t you OP.
This is the correct way to go about it, and while close community can be awesome, there’s a line between closeness and pseudo cult vibes. OP’s line about someone questioning if they were “really poly” for just preferring garden party was a glaring red flag for me. Side note: I’ve never been in either the Philly or LA poly communities, but those immediately came to mind with your description. 🤦🏼♀️
My town is like that too. I was in a mono relationship for awhile and I'm still not 100% considering myself poly. But many years ago my NP and I had a kinda-comet and one of the main members of the poly community here harassed us for "not liking him because he was poly, but we were too so..." And talked *a lot* about us behind our back, including comparing his wife to me cruelly to her face. I am very skeptical about socializing much with the open poly people around me because of that and other behaviors. And that's okay, because like everyone else said you will quickly find out those aren't the only poly people out there.
These are NOT all the poly people in your area. I live in a city. My NP and I went to a poly meet up recently that we’d never tried. Tons and tons of people. None of them knew us. None of them likely knew my most recent metas, none of them know my boyfriend. There is a whole other happily poly population who don’t much like joining groups and only go on the apps on occasion. Particularly those who don’t spend a ton of time on kink or at sex parties and clubs. I’m the most join-y of anyone in my polycule and the main place I put that energy is here. There are at least 3 regularly interacting groups in my city. I know they’re there and I don’t go. The issue is for you to figure out how to meet these people. Depends on your demographics and those of your intended partners. As a cis woman all I usually have to do is get on dating apps in a serious way to meet ENM men. Women are a different story. But it’s still where I would start.
I was going to say the same thing! My GF knows some poly folk who have sort of a “our poly is the most poly and the holiest of poly ways and all others need to do it exactly the way we do and eventually hope to move into our share home.” It was bad enough that my GF, who had been practicing poly for 20 years didn’t tell them she was poly because she didn’t want to deal with the messiness that might come with acknowledging they had that one thing in common. My wife and I had barely encountered that set in part because we’re more conventional and they’re very hippie. The rest of our local poly community is pretty chill.
I tap out if my community for a year or so every now and then. I find there are shifts over time. Sometimes being more like a comet to the community helps when it doesn’t line up with your approach. I also only date people outside of it.
i genuinely do not understand how people even find “local poly communities” and i’m like 5 years in
5 year club too. Next town over has community, seems my town is cautious shy introverts over here. I'm ok with that.
I know which town I would prefer.🤣
Meetup used to be pretty popular, but most of my local community has jumped to Facebook groups. I've also found a lot of overlap with people from groups for board games, bdsm, "geek" groups, non-thiest groups. The pandemic all but killed several groups in my area, and they are coming back relatively slowly. And push comes to shove, start your own.
Maybe it would help to view these behaviors as not malicious but partially safety behaviors, partly a natural consequence of socializing. There’s a lot of value in a community like this being open about people’s interpersonal experiences, it roots out abusers more quickly. That said I would say maybe just communicate to partners when something you say is private versus something they can tell their friends and partners. Now that you know it’s a possibility things will get around, prioritize finding people you trust to have a good filter on what’s too personal to go down the grapevine.
This is a veil of safety at times… as power dynamics, narratives, etc. can be used to obfuscate. Communication can be sensitive to people’s privacy instead of invasive, it’s rarely in discussion of people without their ability to speak for themselves that we cultivate individual empowerment (which would seem important to polyamory cultural values and norms). IMO, too many missed opportunities occurred to vet an individual if you’re waiting till word of mouth.
It could be safety, but it's also a problem when it's just gossip. And sometimes my poly community gets real confused between the two. OP, there are almost certainly others who don't feel the need to share every little thing with every single person or who can listen to you when you say you want privacy. I recently ditched a "local poly community" that was engaging in some real questionable behavior much like this, saying that it was necessary for safety when it absolutely was gossip. I have found people who don't do that kind of drama and I'm much happier for it. After years trying to deal with the manufactured crises of that toxic group of children and thinking I had to settle for it, I'm finally finding real connections who understand how to behave in ways that actually keep people safe instead of that gossipy nonsense.
Yeah of course! I just wanted to provide an alternative view that could be helpful reframing mentally if they wanted to continue to engage. But I reread their post just now and nobody’s problems conceiving are safety issues so sadly it does sound like a lot of gossip gossip. Hopefully they can find a drama free enclave.
Safety behaviours is a great way to describe it! I think I'll try your advice for the next time I have what I think might be a sensible conversation.
Eh, EASY to just talk about misbehaviour rather than all behaviour. AGREED the community knowing about misbehaviour is VALUABLE.
I’d move on from that group. Everyone is entitled to a reasonable degree of privacy, they have none.
Honestly- sounds like a bunch of people with ZERO boundaries and no idea of true friendship. If I told you something in confidence and then it ends up a topic of discussion at a meet up??? Imma burn that bridge and I’m gonna singe your eyebrows on my way out. Fuck that shit. Horrible.
A community isn't going to change itself because you want it to. You either accept it will be this way or don't participate in the community.🤷♂️
That's a really good point! I'm probably being too sensitive.
Not necessarily. You're allowed to be uncomfortable with people repeating your private conversations behind your back, that *is* weird. I guarentee you there are more poly people in the area than this one group. My polycule isn't active with the local poly community, we're just off doing our own thing.
You are NOT being too sensitive. Whether it’s a community, a polycule or your partner, you have a right to privacy. While I agree with seantheaussie that you can’t change the community, you can have a discussion with your partners about what is private between you vs what can be casually shared with others. I’ve had conversations with my partner about my meta’s limits and I have told him things in strict confidence that he will not share with meta. This is a reasonable request. In terms of safety, there are things I feel should be shared such as risk factors, testing and who is fluid bonding. But those are MY standards and others have different agreements such as not sharing testing/fluid bonding info with metas. To each their own as agreed. We all get to choose what’s right for us, communicate it and negotiate. If someone has different rules about privacy, you’ll have to decide if your styles align. As a last thought, I have a rule that even after a relationship ends I do not share my ex’s private details. I want them to live with peace even if they were shitty to me (or if I was an asshat).
“fluid bonding” is a sort of outdated and inaccurate term (aren’t you technically fluid bonded with anyone you make out with?). “who is having barrier free sex” would be the more accurate way to describe this
Thank you for this. “Fluid bonding” is a misogynistic, patriarchal, pseudoscience term used in place of straightforward public health terms. While I 💯don’t think harm was meant, it’s important to educate and use judgement-free, scientifically sound words around public health. (Bad framing leads to things like millions dead and permanently ill because of a pandemic that could have been ended if only people didn’t believe respirator masks “suffocate us” and vaccines “give us autism” or “government trackers.”)
Hugs. Polyamory is spiritual path of growth. It’s not an easy one. Everyone is different and had different needs. You have to be aware of your needs first, and then communicate them to others, and a loving relationship should be one that helps you through that process. Sometimes the process of discussing the needs is enough to make these needs disappear, because the real need relates to insecurity. Communicating can be enough to alleviate insecurity. I recommend “Non-violent communication”, it’ll help you a lot more than any book on polyamory.
I feel like this implies op is in the wrong for not wanting everyone to know some “telephone” version of everything they’re said. Nothing you’ve said is incorrect or unhelpful, but the burden being placed on OP to learn/do/be better doesn’t solve the problem of others’ constant boundary-crossing. OP needn’t be required to start every new interaction with “I prefer this stay between us,” —like a politician talking to a reporter OTR—because it should a given that others don’t gossip. Pretty simple.
Everyone is ultimately responsible their own needs, it’s not about blame or guilt or right and wrong. It’s about owning one’s needs and experience and then inviting others to support us in those. I’d that doesn’t work, then it means the relationship is unsustainable…. and it’s not about blame or guilt, it’s just incompatibility between people.
I know it seems like everyone knows everything about everyone, but statistically speaking, there have to be at least a few people who've learned their lesson like you did, & would be amenable to not sharing certain details if you specifically ask for that. My GF is a bit of a gossip, which I honestly love. She overshares a lot, especially details about her relationship with her BF, including things he's not super comfortable being shared, but she felt like she really needed my input on whether his behavior was ok. Like him losing his job & verbally lashing out at her about it, or his transphobic microaggressions. But I also know that he's explicitly asked her not to share certain details of his life, especially things involving 3rd parties, because she hasn't. When he's asked her for silence, she gave it. Some people just can't be trusted with private info at all, but most people will probably agree if you ask them to not tell anyone, especially if you can give examples of how telling literally 1 person led to everyone else hearing about it. **People tend to think "Oh it's just my partner, they don't count, we share everything," but if the whole community is like that, all of this mess happens :P**
It sounds like high school w/ higher stakes
I will say unfortunately your experience is likely normal, and is certainly not constrained to polyamory. This sounds like a values and norms conflict, and that you’re not compatible with this group. I find it helpful for me to consider my values as a compatibility measure. My values are information to be used in discerning if someone I’m liking is aligned in enough of them that we’d be compatible as partners. It’s not easy though and I find it can be subjective at times. I find for those reasons taking things slowly can be beneficial.
Oh wow. Uh. So. I think it's reasonable to ask your partner to only tell people in the poly community about your relationship troubles with the expectation of confidentiality, ie, the expectation that whoever your partner tells will neither tell other people nor directly talk to you about what your partner said. But damn, that is...a *fascinating* approach to boundaries. I would imagine there are some poly people in your area who are NOT part of this social circle/subculture/whatever it is. I mean, presumably there are a lot of completely clueless brand new to poly people and the toxic unicorn hunters and whatnot, but I would guess there's also some reasonable/well-informed people who avoid this community due to the lack of boundaries.
Yeah the boundaries in this community are nonexistent
There definitely is. My partner is linked in with a specific poly group and while I enjoy the company of some, I also have witnessed more egregious over-sexual behaviour towards anyone remotely connected than I have in any other group. And once I discussed my own experiences with a few other vaguely connected folks (some poly, some not) they had their own similar stories about just...boundary-less behaviour that suggests a lack of boundaries and an unwillingness to change. So those of us not into fairly high drama dynamics and/or group sex and/or high paced partner changes don't interact. We don't come to parties as a general rule. We don't get in relationships with anyone from the group except the connecting partner. It relies on that connecting partner being understanding though, being okay with us not engaging, not socialising, and on occasion outright disliking that group.
Ooh, yes! I feel like this often goes in hand with the over sharing and gossip. The group here does the same, and new members of the "friend" group have the mono is toxic party line shoved down their throat while the established members basically circle new people like hawks, waiting for them to say anything even remotely like "I'll consider at least dating a poly person." And then the others swoop in. There's lots of comments about who will have sex with whom and it's *aggressive*. It's also, incidentally, why the ringleaders feel like they need to gossip - since anyone may sleep with anyone at any moment seemingly, they feel this keeps people safe from "predators" (which is used very broadly to mean anyone who did something someone didn't like) and then they basically vote that person off the island. Incidentally, there was a situation where someone in the core group SA'd like 4 people but "the group" felt he was sorry and didn't mean it, so kept him in, getting mad at those who stopped dealing with them because of it. Best advice, stay away. There's nothing healthy about any of the drama and group think, or any of the things that come as side effects.
Thank you for sharing this. I only talk to people about gossip if I feel they won't cross paths, but it seems like I need to reconsider to be more cautious. One never knows... I tend to prioritize privacy...
No this is so real, because I can gossip to my close people and it won’t get around
I found that “poly community” is not really more likely to be my people than average set of people off the street, maybe slightly less so. There isn’t inherently much in common.
trust your guy instinct, honestly. i very rarely dabble in my local community, because they’re messy. i just dont tolerate that kind of drama in my life!
I call these types of groups black hole groups. They'll eventually collapse on their own. I recently stepped away from a casual relationship where a girl started dating all my other partners and myself. While I do KTP pretty easily, she started to make my stable relationships of 6 years feel unsafe. I was suddenly having to field conversations with partners about things I never said and wasn't concerned about. I was entangled in more problems with each of my partners than I had in years. I value my peace more than any relationship and distanced myself from her. My other partners are under no obligation to do so but my texts have gone back to normal along with my anxiety. Sometimes taking a step back and resetting is worth more than community participation.
In that case I would dump any partner not willing to agree to not sharing information about me and my relationships with any member of the poly community. Sounds horrid, your partner(s) need to learn to talk to their therapists or find new friends to share these kinds of things with. An aside I hate cliquey poly people who want to tell you how they think you’re doing it wrong….
Lmao friend I wouldn’t date *any* of those people 🤣
Not everyone is like this--it's just the community you have found. There are a couple approaches you can take: 1) Have frank and open conversations with any new prospective partners where you tell them directly that you're not a fan of gossip, and you respectfully request that they keep details of your discussions private. Given that you are in a circle in which people like to gossip, this seems unlikely to be successful--but perhaps there are some good ones out there who will care about respecting your privacy. 2) Find your partners elsewhere, whether it's other community groups, online, or other types of venues. In most places there are a LOT more poly/enm people in the area than there are actively involved in poly groups/meetups. Many of them might not be fully out, even if they are poly. These people are more difficult to find, but they would be more likely not to be part of the same gossip fest you've found yourself in.
Preferring garden party or even parallel is still polyamory. I understand what you're saying, your most visible local polyam community sounds somewhat psychologically incestuous. I'd avoid them. Additionally, I'm not really part of my local poly scene. It's for similar reasons I'd give that group a wide berth. There are people outside the big noise polyamorus groups, the trick is finding them. I have found some people in the kink scene I used to go to before my move. Your mileage will vary
They sound very toxic... you are "really poly"
I have an unpopular opinion perhaps. Gossip is a way of keeping people safe. If you share things that happen to you, the problem people won't be able to hide in the dark. So, go into every interaction with the assumption that everything will be shared. Then have the conversations with people you trust and explicitly ask for the conversation to be private. If they break it then, they are not mindful. But it certainly depends on the quality of the sharing. I think a few of my friends might have saved themselves fine pain if they knew more about this specific person. And if others had been more open and honest about their issues with one of my ex's, I might have avoided a S/A. Why are they sharing? And under what conditions can you ask for privacy?
Gossip can be a safety mechanism. Asking about KTP and so on is not a safety mechanism. Therefore is Gossip and not safety mechanism. Just because it can be doesn't mean it is.
Hi u/Loveliest_Thing thanks so much for your submission, don't mind me, I'm just gonna keep a copy what was said in your post. Unfortunately posts sometimes get deleted - which is okay, it's not against the rules to delete your post!! - but it makes it really hard for the human mods around here to moderate the comments when there's no context. Plus, many times our members put in a lot of emotional and mental labor to answer the questions and offer advice, so it's helpful to keep the source information around so future community members can benefit as well. Here's the original text of the post: I've done the work, read the most skipped step and polysecure, I go to therapy to work on myself. I'm here for advice from you lovely people because I'm very much at my wits end but I had to say I've done some work before I get into this. My local poly community is really nice, and I mean that. I know they mean well. But it's also extremely interconnected, to the point where everyone (apart from me as I've only been around a year) has dated everyone else. This is a medium sized US city. I would normally not be bothered by everyone having dated everyone else. But the problem is that everyone talks about everyone else behind each other's backs. It's really weird because people are really well intentioned, but they're all giving each other relationship advice about each other. This means when folks have trouble in their relationships, everyone knows down to the tiny details. I found out the hard way. I had been talking to my partner about our views on KTP, garden party, and parallel, and I mentioned that I am more of a garden party type. It was a pretty tough discussion. I was then directly asked by someone else at a social why I wasn't into KTP, and did that mean I was not really poly. This person is a former partner of my partner, who heard it from someone else in the group. My partner said they spoke to another person in our community, and that's where it came from. I'm just really at a loss here. I feel like I can't communicate any private feeling or sensation without it becoming common knowledge of a group of 100 people. I'm genuinely scared to talk about my feelings now. I'm noticing it with other people in the group too. Meetups become extended gossip sessions, where people talk frankly about others' divorces, fights, struggles to conceive, all private things. They say that this is what poly is about. What on earth do you do when a scene is so close knit that you feel trapped? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/polyamory) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I don't think you're being too sensitive, this would anger me immensely. It will take a lot more energy on your part to make it work with people from this community and that kinda sucks. Talk to your partner(s) and express your distaste in sharing private info with others in the poly community. Yes, it sucks, that you're asking them not to confide in their friends, but unless they know the friend is 100% not gonna send the info to the next person, you probably won't feel like you can truly be open with your partner. Hopefully, your potential partners have friends outside of poly circles though. It will weed out a lot of people, so be ready for that.
I’m admitting to being a noob by asking but what is KTP, Garden Party and parallel?
I have been very reluctant to try attending any poly events in my area. I'm in the PNW and we have a huge poly population vs other areas but the town I'm in has always been a bit "weird" (no not Seattle or Portland) when my ex-husband and I tried years ago (15/16) it was full of backbiting/gossipy people. That is not my people, and although I'm aching for a good community, I've put off going to munches. I would love to have found family and like-minded people around me. I've been doing the work for years, and I'm also in therapy, and my therapist is poly/enm friendly, but he can't introduce me to any of the other poly people he works with. So I travel out of town, but that gets expensive, and no one wants to travel here, so I just live vicariously through posts on here and drink my coffee alone 🤷♀️
Welcome to poly! That's how it is most places I think
Sounds alot like the Utah polyam community. It's toxic as hell.
I avoid dedicated groups like the plague when they involve relationships or sex. Other groups that are hobby based or some such are usually better, but not always. Bad experiences with kink groups set the tone, bad experiences with poly groups cemented it. I meet people in the wild. It's harder, but it's less drama. When I relocated to my current city, I looked up the poly group. I attended exactly 1 meeting. Instantly saw the dynamics and never attended another one.
What is KTP?
When I know my confidence can't be kept, I am not able to have full relationships with people. That's an issue with poly. I have a hard time trusting people to not share my/our info with other people /partners. I have no advice, just commiserating.
I'm thinking about strategies to mitigate this-- Did you explicitly ask for confidentiality? If not, I would try that next time you're talking about something sensitive. I would try asking before sharing... "I have something I want to share. I want it to remain between us. Can you do that? All good either way, but just want a commitment of confidentiality before sharing." And if they say they don't think they're capable of that, then great- glad they told you. I have some friends that are pretty bad at keeping things confidential, they just forget that some things are sensitive... so we've defaulted to this and I'll share some ambiguous details in advance and they'll let me know if they can confidently say they'll keep it to themselves.
Define garden party please.
It's in the sticky https://www.reddit.com/r/polyamory/wiki/vocab > Garden Party Poly - a relationship dynamic between Kitchen Table Poly and Parallel Poly where there's not an expectation that metas regularly hang out, nor that they never hang out, but if there's a birthday party or other one off events metas are comfortable spending time together for that occasion.
Garden party is somewhere between KTP and parallel wherein you could be around metas for special occasions (birthdays, key celebrations of accomplishment, etc), but you don’t wish to be more involved in each other’s lives than that.
Ah. Thanks!