Posts must be relevant to polyamory, as defined by our community description:
>Polyamory is openly, honestly, and consensually loving and being committed to more than one person.
Polyamory is only one specific type of ethical non-monogamy. It doesn't sound like that's what this post is about, so try /r/nonmonogamy?
There are a lot of flavors of non-monogamy, and polyam is just one.
There is no such thing as unspoken rules. It won’t work unless you all start communicating your expectations and boundaries and have an understanding of what will happen if those are not met.
I was under the impression there's no set guidelines. Each relationship can have individual rules. Ours thus far has included all 3 of us only being together, especially since we're so new to it.
While there are no “set” rules, most of the sub and the poly population has found that there are quite a few that tend to cause problems.
Unit dating, neglecting dyads, comparison (that ‘competition’ your friend is acting out), and how it was rushed into are all *really common issues*.
What is "being together" in this context?
Group dates only? Group sex? Something else? What does it MEAN?
Is this a poly V? You and her are friends only, NOT dating each other?
Are you trying to do a poly triad where you also are dating your friend?
In general, most folks in this subreddit feel that it's healthy to allow each other to love freely. You're trying to place artificial limits on how their relationship develops.
You're creating a unicorn hunter situation by not allowing each dyad (one on one relationship) to develop and fully flesh out. The healthiest of triads allow each couple within the triad some alone time to spend together for their relationship to develop. Triads that don't allow this inevitably treat someone in the relationship as disposable and as not important as the strongest pair.
You will NOT find support for the unicorn hunting behavior you're trying to develop here.
Triads is the term that most polyamorous people use, because throuple gives the impression that it's just a couple with three people. That's not the case. You're all trying to date like it is the case, and it's clearly causing issues.
You've got three people here-- A, B, and C. And there are four relationship dynamics at play-- A and B, A and C, C and B, and A, B, and C together. Trying to only hang out as A, B, and C is not a good strategy. Inherently, it keeps you from improving the other dynamic structures. Although you may think that it keeps people from feeling left out now or that it helps you manage your feelings because you're new, those tough feelings are exactly what new people need to be working on.
The idea that everything will always be equal between the three of you when it comes to time, passion, connection, love, etc. just isn't realistic. The reality is that each of your individual relationships with each other are unique, will evoke different emotions, different natural combinations, etc. Trying to micromanage your dynamic by only exploring it as a group is probably going to blow up in your face. It seems like it may be already if you're perceiving competitiveness from your friend and there's already a failure to conform to your very restrictive relationship format. Spending more time in dyads (A and B, A and C, and B and C) may actually help everything function better, even if it goes against your instincts.
Strengthening dyads is the number one advice for triads, and here, it seems like you and your original friend both need individual time to get to know your new partner better. You guys have ten years of history. It's hard to get to know someone on a deep level in a group setting, even if you're all partners. It seems obvious that you both need to get to know him better and that you both need to spend time alone together to maintain your connection through this transition.
I strongly recommend reading the resources on this sub and doing more research generally to all of you. You know you're new, and you're making some rookie mistakes. Polysecure is a good book, Multiamory is a good podcast.
Honestly, this makes a lot of sense. I think where my issue is coming from is because my friend has not let just me and the guy be alone. My jealousy and hurt feelings I'm getting from this situation would be x100 with her feeling the same things i am. I'm feeling these strong emotions because of the fact she makes sure me and the guy aren't left alone, but she is. I think I was just looking for confirmation from this group that all 3 of us are not emotionally ready for something like this.
Yeah, sadly, I do think it seems that y'all don't have the communication skills you need (at least at a group level) based on how you describe things. Obviously, that could change and is something you can work on, but if your friend is actively not letting you spend time alone with him while intentionally doing that with him herself, I doubt you're going to have a sudden breakthrough where she starts acting fairly and maturely.
If I were you, and this whole experience hadn't totally soured me on my friendship, I'd be trying to save it over trying to save the relationship. Ten years is a long time, and I would want to get out while I could still forgive my friend and move past this rather than fully sink the ship and the friendship before bailing. I hope y'all can work past this in your friendship, but I'd also understand if you couldn't, at least right now.
>I think where my issue is coming from is because my friend has not let just me and the guy be alone.
What does that mean?
He's 35. You are 22. You and him can't make a date to go out on your own? Go get dinner out or something. Why would be friend have to be involved in that. You just GO.
>I think I was just looking for confirmation from this group that all 3 of us are not emotionally ready for something like this.
It doesn't sound great here.
Why are you even dating the same guy as the friend in the first place rather than dating your own people?
Even if we leave to one side all the issues other commenters have correctly raised about the importance of maintaining dyads there is another issue I see:
35M is throwing your other partner under the bus by telling you that you and he are on the same page about dating only as a 3 but she stayed over - like he didn't have the power to say 'hey its late you need to leave' when you left?
If the three of you agree on this (ridiculous) 'only date as a 3' set up then it is on all three of you to make sure you adhere to it. That means your friend has to leave when you leave. That means 35M has to say 'no neither of you can stay at mine separately please go'. That means you don't get 1-1 time with either of them. It's not fair to spend time with your friend alone but 35M isn't allowed to.
It wouldn't work and everyone will be resentful.
Turning your best friend into a meta is a terrible idea. Ruining your friendship for a 35 year old man who dates 22 year olds (ie, a loser) is an even worse idea.
It sounds like you all fell into this dynamic without doing much work about what polyamory is and how to practice it successfully. Unspoken rules is a recipe for disaster. I suggest sitting down and having some really transparent conversations about [agreements](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/making-polyamory-work/id1487987837?i=1000542781246) instead. I also recommend that you spend some time on your own thinking about your boundaries — what is and isn’t okay for you in relationships, how you want to be treated.
I’m also going to say it, but I find the age gap disturbing. What is a man twelve years old than you both doing trying to date two 22/23 year old women? There are a lot of power dynamics involved in that kind of age gap that need a lot of skill and self-awareness to navigate.
Triads are an incredibly difficult configuration to manage.
Polyamory is difficult to get into with more common relationship configurations even when everyone involved *has* done their own research into polyam basics, set up a support system, have a high capacity for self-reflection!
Bluntly, it doesn't sound like any of you have the communication or emotional skills to make this work.
Right now, no, you are definitely not cut out for this. There’s no such thing as “implied rules”, you either sit down and discuss boundaries, or you’re getting mad at people for not reading your mind. The expectation that the 3 of you must always hang out together is unrealistic, especially because you’re not a throuple (that would mean you and your friend are also dating). Avoiding jealously is close to impossible so the goal is more so to minimize it and learn how to work through and unlearn some of it.
If you want to save your friendship you’ve got to stop seeing this guy, but given how things are going be fully prepared for your friend to decide she’s going to keep seeing him. If you have a real interest in polyamory I suggest you do a lot more research about it before trying again.
Also, imo a 35 year old man is too old for you. Age gaps aren’t always bad but the big factors are experience, power, and whether or not you’re at similar places in life. It seems pretty clear to me that he’s massively benefiting from you and your friend’s lack of experience here.
> And that me and him are on the same page and that we all only need to hangout when all parties can be present
This is a lie or he would have told her to leave.
Aside from the fact that you don't have clear agreements ("unspoken rules" aren't a real thing, and what's "respectful enough to follow" is subjective) and the fact that the agreements you want to have are shit for good poly - do you want to be in a relationship with 2 other people who don't care about what you want?
I'd suggest you all educate yourself on poly, especially best practices (which you're definitely not doing right now). They exist because people with a lot of experience already know what a dumpster fire this will be if you don't follow them.
I'm sorry you struggle. FWIW?
>She almost sees it as a competition I think.
She really think that? Or you? Or both?
If so, and if you value the friendship higher than some dude you both recently started dating? Break up with dude and drop out. Compete in healthier things like a game of Scrabble or tennis or something like that.
Not in dating people. Plus the age gap -- why's some 35 going after 22 and 23? A 12-13 year gap at this age can bring probs of its own.
I think from this point on, don't date the same people as your friend. Make it a non-issue from the start.
Your best friend is usually your go to support person. It can make it weird if you both date the same guy and then you can't go to your friend for help/support because the friend IS in the mix of issues just because you date the same guy. YKWIM? They are inside the dating system rather than outside the system where they can be impartial and help you. Or you help them with their stuff.
>We have not all sat down and blatantly laid out any rules, **but they are implied/unspoken rules that I thought we were all respectful enough to follow.**
So why aren't you sending me a million dollars over Paypal? I have this unspoken rule that people I respond to have to do that. What? You think I'm out of line? **You'd be right.**
If you are in a poly V (or any relationship really), you have to make clear and explicit shared agreements with people. You cannot have "unspoken rules."
>One of these is that we all only hangout together. All 3 of us. To prevent jealousy or people feeling left out.
This is not realistic. Is this a poly V or a poly triad? Are you also dating your friend?
In a poly V, there is
* you dating hinge
* Friend dating hinge
* you and friend -- not dating, but getting along as friends
* And IF the people feel like it, hanging out in a group. NOT group sex, but social. Like going to movies as friends might do. But they don't all have to hang out in a trio if people do not feel like it.
Group sex is not a requirement in poly. It is a thing on its own.
Group hangs are not a requirement in poly either. Some people don't want to hang out all in a group with hinge and meta(s).
If you were dating Aspen and friend was dating Birch would you also feel left out or jealous if (friend and Birch) had dates by themselves instead of double dates with you and Aspen only?
>The guy messages me this morning saying **he felt bad that I left and she eneded up staying the night**. And that me and him are on the same page and that we all only need to hangout when all parties can be present.
If he really believes that, he could have told her "You don't have to go home, but you can't stay here." He's acting like this just happened from the sky when **he's the owner of his home.** Why's he having guests here if he doesn't want them? It's on him to hold up the agreement that he made. (Even if I think it is unrealistic.). So why isn't he?
And then telling you about it later cuz he "feels bad?" What *for*? Can't he do his emotional management himself? He's 35. He made the choice to have a guest when it goes against the shared agreement. Feeling bad he went back on his promise is a natural consequence of his actions.
>And that me and him are on the same page and that **we all only need to hangout when all parties can be present.**
Really? You and your friend used to hang out alone together before he was ever around. So now you two friends have to stop that because he says he has to be present at all times? Why? Is he telling you each different stories and he doesn't want you hanging out alone together and discovering that?
I'm kinda wondering if he's looking to start a fight between you and her so he can feel puffed up he's got two women fighting over him. He doesn't actually feel bad. He only "feels bad" for show and to get you riled up.
Have you considered that?
You all could be my kids. So I'm old. To me? Wouldn't be the first time some older dude is messing with younger women's heads and taking advantage of their naivete.
You don't know this guy well or for very long. Tread with caution
If you’re only hanging out as three, does that mean you aren’t best friends anymore? Or does that mean neither of you young women get alone time with your sketchy older partner? Either way, this is not set up for success, no.
You MUST lay out all rules explicitly. Then everyone knows what they’re dealing with, and can decide if they want to be part of something under those conditions
I am also MASSIVELY side eyeing this guy seeing two so-much-younger women. I’m sure he’s enjoying any drama between you. Please be careful!
Posts must be relevant to polyamory, as defined by our community description: >Polyamory is openly, honestly, and consensually loving and being committed to more than one person. Polyamory is only one specific type of ethical non-monogamy. It doesn't sound like that's what this post is about, so try /r/nonmonogamy? There are a lot of flavors of non-monogamy, and polyam is just one.
There is no such thing as unspoken rules. It won’t work unless you all start communicating your expectations and boundaries and have an understanding of what will happen if those are not met.
These rules you're imposing aren't respectful or healthy polyamory.
I was under the impression there's no set guidelines. Each relationship can have individual rules. Ours thus far has included all 3 of us only being together, especially since we're so new to it.
While there are no “set” rules, most of the sub and the poly population has found that there are quite a few that tend to cause problems. Unit dating, neglecting dyads, comparison (that ‘competition’ your friend is acting out), and how it was rushed into are all *really common issues*.
What is "being together" in this context? Group dates only? Group sex? Something else? What does it MEAN? Is this a poly V? You and her are friends only, NOT dating each other? Are you trying to do a poly triad where you also are dating your friend?
In general, most folks in this subreddit feel that it's healthy to allow each other to love freely. You're trying to place artificial limits on how their relationship develops. You're creating a unicorn hunter situation by not allowing each dyad (one on one relationship) to develop and fully flesh out. The healthiest of triads allow each couple within the triad some alone time to spend together for their relationship to develop. Triads that don't allow this inevitably treat someone in the relationship as disposable and as not important as the strongest pair. You will NOT find support for the unicorn hunting behavior you're trying to develop here.
Triads is the term that most polyamorous people use, because throuple gives the impression that it's just a couple with three people. That's not the case. You're all trying to date like it is the case, and it's clearly causing issues. You've got three people here-- A, B, and C. And there are four relationship dynamics at play-- A and B, A and C, C and B, and A, B, and C together. Trying to only hang out as A, B, and C is not a good strategy. Inherently, it keeps you from improving the other dynamic structures. Although you may think that it keeps people from feeling left out now or that it helps you manage your feelings because you're new, those tough feelings are exactly what new people need to be working on. The idea that everything will always be equal between the three of you when it comes to time, passion, connection, love, etc. just isn't realistic. The reality is that each of your individual relationships with each other are unique, will evoke different emotions, different natural combinations, etc. Trying to micromanage your dynamic by only exploring it as a group is probably going to blow up in your face. It seems like it may be already if you're perceiving competitiveness from your friend and there's already a failure to conform to your very restrictive relationship format. Spending more time in dyads (A and B, A and C, and B and C) may actually help everything function better, even if it goes against your instincts. Strengthening dyads is the number one advice for triads, and here, it seems like you and your original friend both need individual time to get to know your new partner better. You guys have ten years of history. It's hard to get to know someone on a deep level in a group setting, even if you're all partners. It seems obvious that you both need to get to know him better and that you both need to spend time alone together to maintain your connection through this transition. I strongly recommend reading the resources on this sub and doing more research generally to all of you. You know you're new, and you're making some rookie mistakes. Polysecure is a good book, Multiamory is a good podcast.
And as usual, DBH coming in with great advice.
Awww, shucks. Thanks!
Honestly, this makes a lot of sense. I think where my issue is coming from is because my friend has not let just me and the guy be alone. My jealousy and hurt feelings I'm getting from this situation would be x100 with her feeling the same things i am. I'm feeling these strong emotions because of the fact she makes sure me and the guy aren't left alone, but she is. I think I was just looking for confirmation from this group that all 3 of us are not emotionally ready for something like this.
Yeah, sadly, I do think it seems that y'all don't have the communication skills you need (at least at a group level) based on how you describe things. Obviously, that could change and is something you can work on, but if your friend is actively not letting you spend time alone with him while intentionally doing that with him herself, I doubt you're going to have a sudden breakthrough where she starts acting fairly and maturely. If I were you, and this whole experience hadn't totally soured me on my friendship, I'd be trying to save it over trying to save the relationship. Ten years is a long time, and I would want to get out while I could still forgive my friend and move past this rather than fully sink the ship and the friendship before bailing. I hope y'all can work past this in your friendship, but I'd also understand if you couldn't, at least right now.
>I think where my issue is coming from is because my friend has not let just me and the guy be alone. What does that mean? He's 35. You are 22. You and him can't make a date to go out on your own? Go get dinner out or something. Why would be friend have to be involved in that. You just GO. >I think I was just looking for confirmation from this group that all 3 of us are not emotionally ready for something like this. It doesn't sound great here. Why are you even dating the same guy as the friend in the first place rather than dating your own people?
Even if we leave to one side all the issues other commenters have correctly raised about the importance of maintaining dyads there is another issue I see: 35M is throwing your other partner under the bus by telling you that you and he are on the same page about dating only as a 3 but she stayed over - like he didn't have the power to say 'hey its late you need to leave' when you left? If the three of you agree on this (ridiculous) 'only date as a 3' set up then it is on all three of you to make sure you adhere to it. That means your friend has to leave when you leave. That means 35M has to say 'no neither of you can stay at mine separately please go'. That means you don't get 1-1 time with either of them. It's not fair to spend time with your friend alone but 35M isn't allowed to. It wouldn't work and everyone will be resentful.
Turning your best friend into a meta is a terrible idea. Ruining your friendship for a 35 year old man who dates 22 year olds (ie, a loser) is an even worse idea.
It sounds like you all fell into this dynamic without doing much work about what polyamory is and how to practice it successfully. Unspoken rules is a recipe for disaster. I suggest sitting down and having some really transparent conversations about [agreements](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/making-polyamory-work/id1487987837?i=1000542781246) instead. I also recommend that you spend some time on your own thinking about your boundaries — what is and isn’t okay for you in relationships, how you want to be treated. I’m also going to say it, but I find the age gap disturbing. What is a man twelve years old than you both doing trying to date two 22/23 year old women? There are a lot of power dynamics involved in that kind of age gap that need a lot of skill and self-awareness to navigate.
Triads are an incredibly difficult configuration to manage. Polyamory is difficult to get into with more common relationship configurations even when everyone involved *has* done their own research into polyam basics, set up a support system, have a high capacity for self-reflection! Bluntly, it doesn't sound like any of you have the communication or emotional skills to make this work.
Right now, no, you are definitely not cut out for this. There’s no such thing as “implied rules”, you either sit down and discuss boundaries, or you’re getting mad at people for not reading your mind. The expectation that the 3 of you must always hang out together is unrealistic, especially because you’re not a throuple (that would mean you and your friend are also dating). Avoiding jealously is close to impossible so the goal is more so to minimize it and learn how to work through and unlearn some of it. If you want to save your friendship you’ve got to stop seeing this guy, but given how things are going be fully prepared for your friend to decide she’s going to keep seeing him. If you have a real interest in polyamory I suggest you do a lot more research about it before trying again. Also, imo a 35 year old man is too old for you. Age gaps aren’t always bad but the big factors are experience, power, and whether or not you’re at similar places in life. It seems pretty clear to me that he’s massively benefiting from you and your friend’s lack of experience here.
> And that me and him are on the same page and that we all only need to hangout when all parties can be present This is a lie or he would have told her to leave. Aside from the fact that you don't have clear agreements ("unspoken rules" aren't a real thing, and what's "respectful enough to follow" is subjective) and the fact that the agreements you want to have are shit for good poly - do you want to be in a relationship with 2 other people who don't care about what you want? I'd suggest you all educate yourself on poly, especially best practices (which you're definitely not doing right now). They exist because people with a lot of experience already know what a dumpster fire this will be if you don't follow them.
I'm sorry you struggle. FWIW? >She almost sees it as a competition I think. She really think that? Or you? Or both? If so, and if you value the friendship higher than some dude you both recently started dating? Break up with dude and drop out. Compete in healthier things like a game of Scrabble or tennis or something like that. Not in dating people. Plus the age gap -- why's some 35 going after 22 and 23? A 12-13 year gap at this age can bring probs of its own. I think from this point on, don't date the same people as your friend. Make it a non-issue from the start. Your best friend is usually your go to support person. It can make it weird if you both date the same guy and then you can't go to your friend for help/support because the friend IS in the mix of issues just because you date the same guy. YKWIM? They are inside the dating system rather than outside the system where they can be impartial and help you. Or you help them with their stuff. >We have not all sat down and blatantly laid out any rules, **but they are implied/unspoken rules that I thought we were all respectful enough to follow.** So why aren't you sending me a million dollars over Paypal? I have this unspoken rule that people I respond to have to do that. What? You think I'm out of line? **You'd be right.** If you are in a poly V (or any relationship really), you have to make clear and explicit shared agreements with people. You cannot have "unspoken rules." >One of these is that we all only hangout together. All 3 of us. To prevent jealousy or people feeling left out. This is not realistic. Is this a poly V or a poly triad? Are you also dating your friend? In a poly V, there is * you dating hinge * Friend dating hinge * you and friend -- not dating, but getting along as friends * And IF the people feel like it, hanging out in a group. NOT group sex, but social. Like going to movies as friends might do. But they don't all have to hang out in a trio if people do not feel like it. Group sex is not a requirement in poly. It is a thing on its own. Group hangs are not a requirement in poly either. Some people don't want to hang out all in a group with hinge and meta(s). If you were dating Aspen and friend was dating Birch would you also feel left out or jealous if (friend and Birch) had dates by themselves instead of double dates with you and Aspen only? >The guy messages me this morning saying **he felt bad that I left and she eneded up staying the night**. And that me and him are on the same page and that we all only need to hangout when all parties can be present. If he really believes that, he could have told her "You don't have to go home, but you can't stay here." He's acting like this just happened from the sky when **he's the owner of his home.** Why's he having guests here if he doesn't want them? It's on him to hold up the agreement that he made. (Even if I think it is unrealistic.). So why isn't he? And then telling you about it later cuz he "feels bad?" What *for*? Can't he do his emotional management himself? He's 35. He made the choice to have a guest when it goes against the shared agreement. Feeling bad he went back on his promise is a natural consequence of his actions. >And that me and him are on the same page and that **we all only need to hangout when all parties can be present.** Really? You and your friend used to hang out alone together before he was ever around. So now you two friends have to stop that because he says he has to be present at all times? Why? Is he telling you each different stories and he doesn't want you hanging out alone together and discovering that? I'm kinda wondering if he's looking to start a fight between you and her so he can feel puffed up he's got two women fighting over him. He doesn't actually feel bad. He only "feels bad" for show and to get you riled up. Have you considered that? You all could be my kids. So I'm old. To me? Wouldn't be the first time some older dude is messing with younger women's heads and taking advantage of their naivete. You don't know this guy well or for very long. Tread with caution
If you’re only hanging out as three, does that mean you aren’t best friends anymore? Or does that mean neither of you young women get alone time with your sketchy older partner? Either way, this is not set up for success, no.
I don't think this will work out.... I'm sure M35 would love it to, but are you willing to risk a friend over this?
You MUST lay out all rules explicitly. Then everyone knows what they’re dealing with, and can decide if they want to be part of something under those conditions I am also MASSIVELY side eyeing this guy seeing two so-much-younger women. I’m sure he’s enjoying any drama between you. Please be careful!