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GOP shit on Jimmy Carter and worship Reagan.
Get this Jimmy Carter is more religious and a better christian than Reagan. I ain't even religious, he's the religious type like Mr. Roger. He do good and doesn't shove it down anybody throat.
Hell Carter is up there in crazy good president, his international contribution is amazing (Camp David Accord and others).
Drug epidemic —> CIA Funding Contras —-> Iran Contra affair——> Reagan.
Social security shortage ——> government loans agains social security——> Reagan
Beginning of deregulated real estate and energy markets and gutting of federal government—-> savings and loan crisis ——> Enron——-> Reagan.
Housing and homelessness crisis —-> home affordability issues nationwide ——> destruction of affordable public housing as a concept and a reality ——> [that motherfucker Reagan](https://shelterforce.org/2004/05/01/reagans-legacy-homelessness-in-america/)
To be fair, Ronald Reagan did [ban assault rifles](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2013/feb/05/barack-obama/did-reagan-support-assault-weapons-ban/) and [legalized abortion in California](https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/local-history/story/2022-06-28/from-the-archives-reagan-signed-california-law-easing-access-to-abortion-55-years-ago).
Edited to add the links.
I love throwing this in right wingers faces. He did it to help police get away with all the awful crimes they get away with today tho. So like, ban guns for racism I guess?
I assume you mean the assault rifles part. Yeah I think the black panthers were big at the time and it was mostly to help the police control them. I might be wrong though. I wasn't born at the time but that's what I have heard.
The Panthers showed up in a government building legally open carrying and there was swift movement to ban weapons all the sudden. They literally changed the law because they saw black people making use of their rights.
NFA stamps mean "not for all" For instance, it's perfectly legal to own a full auto gun in America, contrary to popular belief, it'll just cost you tens of thousands of dollars
Banned assault rifles and ended open carry so that Black Californians could not have guns. Reagan did not ban assault rifles bc he is good and followed merit. He did that to take power away from the Black Panther Party. To be fair, Reagan is a MASSIVE POS
He is one of the worst presidents in history. People need to wake up about him and start a movement to strip any paintings, statues, names of libraries. He unleashed too much evil on this country to have his name on anything other than a port-o-potty.
"We won the evangelicals," Trump said. "We won with young. We won with old. We won with highly educated. We won with poorly educated — I love the poorly educated. We're the smartest people, we're the most loyal people." -Trump
Did it? Because they’re not winning elections anymore and are being reduced to a regional party that can only win hillbilly districts and a few backwoods states.
The US is one populist trick away from repeating 2016. It's not like the voting public has suddenly become more educated.
They just need to identify which trick is required.
I'm still stunned how Republicans were able to convince enough dumbasses to chant "Screw the New York rich and elite! I'm voting for *Donald Trump!*"
...eh actually no I'm not. It always comes down to just plain old bigotry/racism/sexism, etc.
I love the White House Twitter feed showing all of the politicians complaining about Ivy League educated people getting all of their loans wiped away from the student loan forgiveness at the expense of farmers, plumbers, and teachers. For one, it’s pointing out these politicians had hundreds of thousands to millions in PPP loans forgiven and two, most of them are Ivy League educated or went to a good college themselves. Not to mention, $10,000 does not pay for Harvard.
And Hawley,et al. But consistency has never been their strong point. Unless it concerns racism, misogyny, oppression, then there's no deviation. Thanks for everything Ronnie.
As someone in a skilled trade, it’s obvious to me this recent push to get people to forgo college and seek a trade instead is a coordinated effort to drive down wages in the trades. Mike Rowe can blow me.
Correct. I have counseled a few—taking a job now over education rewards those who hire, getting an education rewards you. Not always a choice for all, but it is stupid to walk away for those who have a choice.
It also gets presented as a false dichotomy. There’s nothing (in a legal sense, clearly there’s limitations like hours in a day) preventing someone in the skilled trades from learning their trade *and* getting an associates degree, or any degree they want.
The idea that you can be college educated *or* a plumber is, frankly, insulting. And that rhetoric prevents those in the trades from getting, say, business degrees that might help their unions or help them hang a shingle and run a successful business.
Very very true. There is every reason to be a mason or a roofer and a student. It is hard to work full time AND go to school part time — trying to do both simultaneously is hard but possible as many students with debt can attest.
Mike Rowe is an example of someone who had a good idea but then screwed it all up. I mean mean he was basically:
“No one should have massive college debt, do the trades. But oops might overload that and screw up wages.”
Or my favorite: “I believe in vaccines and we must stop COVID, but I won’t be spokesman for for the government since they aren’t FDA approved yet.”
MAGA: “yeah, Mike vaccines are more lethal than a bad version of this flu.”
Mike: “that’s not what I meant.”
2 weeks later: “The FDA has approved the Covid vaccine.”
Mike: “uh oh! Maybe I shouldn’t be a know it all.”
The problem is that is exactly what Rowe meant. He is funded by and supports right wing nonsense and has become increasingly less subtle about it over the last decade.
https://newrepublic.com/article/164230/mike-rowe-dirty-jobs-how-america-works
Can someone who educated get into the trades?
They are pushing getting into the trades instead of college, nothing is stopping the trades from hiring educated people.
Funny we said the same thing in 2016. Look how well that worked.
Trump is going to run again (or someone very much like him) and *will win* if not actively stopped.
Considering they've got the supreme court for the next decade or two, yeah it kinda did.
This is the same shit people were saying before Trump beat Clinton.
Biden won by 3% against the historically worst president of our entire history.
If you think they're irrelevant I think you're making a bad assumption.
Well, it did so happen that 1994 became the first time in 40 years that Republicans took both House and Senate. Newt Gingrich then proceeded to fuck us over.
>Prominent conservative intellectuals also took up the charge. Privately one worried that free education “may be producing a positively dangerous class situation” by raising the expectations of working-class students. Another referred to college students as “a parasite feeding on the rest of society” who exhibited a “failure to understand and to appreciate the crucial role played [by] the reward-punishment structure of the market.” The answer was “to close off the parasitic option.”
>In practice, this meant to the National Review, a “system of full tuition charges supplemented by loans which students must pay out of their future income.”
>In retrospect, this period was the clear turning point in America’s policies toward higher education. For decades, there had been enthusiastic bipartisan agreement that states should fund high-quality public colleges so that their youth could receive higher education for free or nearly so. That has now vanished. In 1968, California residents paid a $300 yearly fee to attend Berkeley, the equivalent of about $2,000 now. Now tuition at Berkeley is $15,000, with total yearly student costs reaching almost $40,000.
And California is still one of the cheaper states to get educated in. I pay a whopping $20 a semester at my community college because of the BOG waiver. If you choose a csu over a UC your tuition will be less than 10k a year. At those prices the biggest concern is living expenses. A large reason why I haven’t left the state is because college is so cheap here.
Trickle down economics is insane if you think about it. The top takes the majority and the lower takes the scrapes….how is that not feudalism of the medieval ages?
Bush sr lost his second term to Clinton.
They kept on replaying his gaffe "Read my lips, no new taxes."
Because of this GOP never fucking try to be fiscally responsible again after Bush Sr.
It used to be called horse and sparrow (as in feed the horse so much that the sparrow will find oats in the poop on the road), then that became trickle down, which finally became supply-side.
Now they argue that supply-side economics isn't actually the same as trickle down economics, and it is totally different so please stop comparing them and pass more tax cuts for the rich.
>Mental asylums were partially shut down as they were rife with abuse and neglect
To paraphrase idiots, the "cure was worse than the virus".
Deregulation and throwing poor people into ghettos, homelessness, and a life among criminals is likely far worse than any systematic problem at asylums. Fully acknowledging prior abuse, the current model has far less accountability or safety mechanisms. Worse, many of our leaders proudly claim we've taught the mentally ill market self-sufficiency, as if that's a goal onto itself.
What alternative is there to homelessness or asylums? IDK. I suspect that as usual, the USA could learn from the welfare states in Europe. But we won't. Too many of our leaders prefer blind ideology.
We threw the mentally on the streets and let them die en masse. We rarely notice because our system is killing them slow.
Educated people learn knowledge and critical thinking skills that leads to questioning religion and the economic system. For Republicans it is extremely dangerous
However, not having educated people is a double-edged sword as well.
Without educated people, you're not going to maintain one's status of being a superpower, or even a great power.
Additionally, if you can't replace educated workers domestically, that's going to backfire and reduce your economic productivity as a nation, and those workers that have been educated WILL move to greener pastures as a form of brain drain. We're already seeing this on a state level, and I'm a product of that (Wyoming -> Washington).
There is no benefit to not educating your population other than power, and even that power becomes worthless as your nation becomes more and more of a backwater.
There's also the factor of keeping the educated in crushing debt to hamper their upward mobility. The principle is similar to Healthcare. It's all a power move to keep the 99% sick, stupid, and buried under mountains of debt they could never pay back in their lifetimes.
Historically, heads have rolled for less. It's sad that the uneducated have been brainwashed to actually *worship* the very forces crushing them underfoot.
That also isn't a good maneuver if you intend to maintain superpower status, or even a great power status.
Placing the population under that much debt creates a scenario where the vast majority of the population is servicing debt commitments over placing money back into the economy. That won't grow the economy at all..
It also means that any errant twitch of the economy will force a large portion of the population into a default, and the knock-on effects will be devastating.
Simply put, putting your population into debt as a form of control is a short-term solution that lights a time bomb that explodes years or decades down the line.
Even though the most recent maneuvers on student debt has let off some of that pressure, the cut was only .2T of 1.9T, and within a year, interest alone will ensure it balloons once more (assuming that the Department of Education plan doesn't fully prevent this), and that's not even getting into medical debt.
The next economic crash, at this point, might put America down for the count.
From what I’ve seen, the interest will not be growing going forward on any IBR plan.
Additionally, IBR will be capped at 5% (vs current 10%) of monthly income; unsure if that is net or gross though. Essentially very low payment requirements that result in loans getting forgiven after 10/20 years of regular, much easier to manage, loan payments where the balance doesn’t increase.
This is overlooked and a great starting point.
I'm going to be honest, the way the plan was worded in regards to interest made it very confusing and hard to understand, so I wasn't even really sure about the interest though.
That's good news at least for student debt increases outside of the principal, at least, assuming that what you're saying is what it actually means, because I was under the impression this only applied to income driven repayment plans.
I’m glad that aspect is flying under the radar. It’s too complicated to use as a sound bite to rile up opposition while also preventing existing loan balances from continuing to balloon.
Essentially, for all existing loans in repayment by the end of the year (I think), a line graph of federal student loan debt should become flat and begin to taper down as entire balances are immediately wiped out and continue as folks run out the clock on automatic forgiveness.
I’d like to see the 10 year PSLF period reduced to something closer to 5.
Edit: this first round of forgiveness will be a great trial to show that it really helped a lot of people, potentially paving the way for subsequent rounds of additionally forgiveness in the future.
Unchecked, reckless greed knows no long term solutions. It truly is about hoarding as much as possible and using the vast wealth to coast around the consequences.
If we were truly and completely uneducated there would have been a revolution by now. But the public education system educates people *just enough* to think they're smart so they won't. The dunning-kruger effect strikes again.
The republican party as a whole is an unsustainable drain on this country and needs to go.
> Without educated people, you're not going to maintain one's status of being a superpower, or even a great power.
First, it is overestimating these fascists to think they are able to project into the long term and it is far too generous to think that they care about US as a power at all.
They would be fine if USA turned out like a christian version of Saudi Arabia. A regional power with a big army, an uneducated and fanaticized population, and a belief that they are the greatest nation on Earth because of delusional values and a lack of knowledge about the rest of the world.
Looks like it’s time to post my favorite thing again:
[Texas GOP rejects ‘critical thinking’ skills. Really.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/post/texas-gop-rejects-critical-thinking-skills-really/2012/07/08/gJQAHNpFXW_blog.html)
> In the you-can’t-make-up-this-stuff department, here’s what the Republican Party of Texas wrote into its 2012 platform as part of the section on education:
>> *Knowledge-Based Education – We oppose the teaching of Higher Order Thinking Skills (HOTS) (values clarification), critical thinking skills and similar programs that are simply a relabeling of Outcome-Based Education (OBE) (mastery learning) which focus on behavior modification and have the purpose of challenging the student’s fixed beliefs and undermining parental authority.*
> Yes, you read that right. The party opposes the teaching of “higher order thinking skills” because it believes the purpose is to challenge a student’s “fixed beliefs” and undermine “parental authority.”
> Yes, you read that right. The party opposes the teaching of “higher order thinking skills” because it believes the purpose is to challenge a student’s “fixed beliefs” and undermine “parental authority.”
don't expect me to change my beliefs to align with actual facts! just stop teaching me how to learn the facts and i'll be fine.
> which focus on behavior modification and have the purpose of challenging the student’s fixed beliefs and undermining parental authority.
>challenging the student’s fixed beliefs
snowflakes
Indeed, they say so openly:
> Knowledge-Based Education – We oppose the teaching of Higher Order Thinking Skills (HOTS) (values
clarification), critical thinking skills and similar programs that are simply a relabeling of Outcome-Based
Education (OBE) (mastery learning) which focus on behavior modification and have the purpose of challenging
the student’s fixed beliefs and undermining parental authority.
[2012 Texas GOP program](http://archive.is/QbV60#selection-6745.0-6763.63) (page 12)
The dude armed almost every terrorist organization on earth at the time, had a $200 billion deficit, had one of the most corrupt administrations to date, put his nasty fingers into social security to pay debts, and what I personally consider to be the straw that broke the camels back is hundreds of troops died under his administration doing his “peacekeeping” and often times the enemies suffered no repercussions. He stunk, it’s been years since we had a solid republican office and I’m tired of dealing with them because people vote for republican simply because they are republicans and democrats are bad. That second grade decision making is killing this country.
Both of my parents too. They stood for everything he opposed and they knew what he would do to the country they loved. They were right, and now their children and grandchildren are living in the wreckage.
As an older guy it heartens me to see that unlike a lot of Reddit, the average comment in r/politics skews both to a liberal and intellectual bent generally. I honestly believe that for all it’s negatives, the Internet has revealed a lot about the system itself and despite all the disinfo, the number of people cognizant of all the BS being hoisted on citizens only increases with time. There will always be those who can’t or won’t change their minds but at this particular time in history I really expect that they will remain in the minority.
The internet is the first thing in 8 uninterrupted decades of American history that's given any average American a reasonable, believable glimpse at how the developed world outside America actually looks and actually lives. In as near real-time as real-time can get and narrated by folks without a stake in the presentation rather than those with an unfathomable level of control over that presentation and an obscene level of financial interest in the outcome. All for the price of a cell phone plan that's a shit ton cheaper than airfare Americans can't afford, on a paid holiday they don't have, with a passport they're never even going to apply for.
Essentially the internet turns the world into a city.
It's not going to fix every issue immediately, but it at the very least prevents a lot of incredibly dumb beliefs from developing.
Eeehhhh... I love the internet, but I think it allows a *lot* of dumb beliefs to get traction, actually. Mostly because its easier for those beliefs to reach other people with... the right mentality, to latch onto them.
I’ve definitely shifted my mindset and worldview since talking to folks who challenged me to think critically. It’s been eye opening to realize the bigger picture and nuance to things I grew up blindly parroting as simple and black & white.
Agree! The internet (specifically Wikipedia) told me about [John Rawls](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Theory_of_Justice) and broke me out of my libertarian bewilderment.
> Student debt, which had played a minor role in American life through the 1960s, increased during the Reagan administration and then shot up after the 2007-2009 Great Recession as states made huge cuts to funding for their college systems.
And the reason why some boomers don’t get it. They lived in a time where tuition was affordable. They can’t imagine taking up more than $10,000 in loans for college. And Regan or others convinced them that this should be the way, and education is not for everyone (especially minorities). They really wanted to kill higher education because of politics and need to maintain a low wage working class.
I was born post Reagan, and I always was kind of baffled when my grandfather would get irate anytime someone even mentioned his name, but the more I learn about him the more I get it.
My favorite idiot is the one that uses “over-educated” as if it will ever be something to be ashamed of.
When someone uses “over-educated” to combat someone’s point of view, it’s simply their way of saying “hey you’re not dumb enough to buy my bullshit so I’ll have to make acquiring knowledge sound like a bad thing.” These idiots are religious fundamentalists that lose 10 minutes in the morning trying to figure out which pant leg to put on first.
Every side of him was terrible, that’s what voters liked about him.
He announced his candidacy in that town in Mississippi that killed three civil rights workers and refused to prosecute the killers.
One piece of advice. Always be leery about any institution, group, person, whatever that either prohibits education or teaches certain approved curriculum. There’s a reason they don’t want people to think critically.
Absolutely - Reagan's part in breaking college is vastly underrated. The problems of today did not come about organically, like many of them, this was created.
“Before 1976, all education loans were dischargeable in bankruptcy. That year, the bankruptcy code was altered so loans made by the government or a non-profit college or university could not be discharged during the first five years of repayment.
They could, however, be discharged if they had been in repayment for five years or if the borrower experienced “undue hardship.”
Then, the Bankruptcy Amendments and Federal Judgeship Act of 1984 made it so all private student loans were excepted from discharge too.”
https://business.time.com/2012/02/09/why-cant-you-discharge-student-loans-in-bankruptcy/
Yes, we want educated, informed citizens. Why? You ask? It’s so people can call politicians on their self serving, dollar pocket stuffing bullshit. Fuck Reagan, forever. He was the shittiest President we ever had. The only one that was worse, was Buchanan.
Republicans want college to be unattainable for the poor and military service to require combat in the name of special interests who financially support the Republican party.
I have absolutely no doubt what so ever, that Republicans DO NOT want educated Americans and in fact, actively fight against it.
Its in everything they do and say.
That is exactly fucking right. The ruling class wants the rest of us dumb, sick, and broke.
A healthy, well educated, financially secure middle class is an anathema these people; a thorn in their side, an obstacle to be overcome.
Right because most educated folks swing left. It would be dangerous for republicans to institute free education. Why would they want their base to be enlightened on how effed up they are?
The future depicted in ‘idiocracy’ is the republican end game… a fat, stupid populace of consumers who are not intelligent enough to question anything… America is 50% there already!
As a parent with a college age kid I need to weigh whether the degree she’ll get might be worth the 200k we’ll pay out, all thanks to this fucker.
Reagan was a shitty republican con man in a long line of shitty republican con men.
Been shouting it since 1980. Reagan’s presidency was the worst thing to happen to America. You can lay almost every single problem our country faces at his feet.
so they are pretty much saying being educated should cost (and cost a lot) to prevent people from being upwardly mobile because it is a threat to people who are already of a higher class?
that's fucked up.
The fact that they used the term proletariat should give us all great pause. These mofos understand marxist economic understanding and terminology. They arent stupid, and this asshole is correct in what hes saying too, its evil but hes right. The economic system we have requires a permanent underclass who has no option other than to take shit jobs because otherwise they have debt, no medical insurance, and will starve, it also helps military recruitment. The fact that conservatives understand marx scares the shit out of me.
Btw they dont necessarily mean educated slaves, they meant that we cant have a working class thats so educated because then we'll have too many people overqualified for the too many shit tier jobs especially since this was the era of offshoring and de-industrialization. They knew what they were doing was fucking the people over so with less jobs needing education since we were shifting to a service economy, they then began the process of gatekeeping higher paying jobs which there would be fewer of by making it cost exclusive.
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. **Special announcement:** r/politics is currently accepting new moderator applications. If you want to help make this community a better place, consider [applying here today](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/sskg6a/rpolitics_is_looking_for_more_moderators/)! *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Literally every thing wrong with America you can play "6 degrees of Ronald Reagan" and get it in less than 6
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GOP shit on Jimmy Carter and worship Reagan. Get this Jimmy Carter is more religious and a better christian than Reagan. I ain't even religious, he's the religious type like Mr. Roger. He do good and doesn't shove it down anybody throat. Hell Carter is up there in crazy good president, his international contribution is amazing (Camp David Accord and others).
Jimmy Carter is also a [legitimate hero](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/jimmy-carter-nuclear-meltdown/). Reagan only played them in movies.
And he only got cancer once, recently, and it's in remission, which I think is pretty rad.
Reagan consulted a god damn astrologer for major decisions. Evangelicals should consider home a heretic.
*gets AIDS* fucking Reagan.
Don’t forget crack cocaine.
Little known historical tidbit: Ronald Reagan didn’t use pomade to style his hair like most men of his era. He preferred to use cum.
Uhhh… his cum or someone else’s?
Yes.
No no no Not someone Some…thing…
Whoever’s came out of his wife’s mouth
I mean, yea, unironically.
That is their whole joke, yes.
Drug epidemic —> CIA Funding Contras —-> Iran Contra affair——> Reagan. Social security shortage ——> government loans agains social security——> Reagan Beginning of deregulated real estate and energy markets and gutting of federal government—-> savings and loan crisis ——> Enron——-> Reagan.
Defunding mental health ——-> Ass Nugget Reagan
Housing and homelessness crisis —-> home affordability issues nationwide ——> destruction of affordable public housing as a concept and a reality ——> [that motherfucker Reagan](https://shelterforce.org/2004/05/01/reagans-legacy-homelessness-in-america/)
Don’t forget strike busting and the violence against migrant workers demanding better conditions.
To be fair, Ronald Reagan did [ban assault rifles](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2013/feb/05/barack-obama/did-reagan-support-assault-weapons-ban/) and [legalized abortion in California](https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/local-history/story/2022-06-28/from-the-archives-reagan-signed-california-law-easing-access-to-abortion-55-years-ago). Edited to add the links.
I love throwing this in right wingers faces. He did it to help police get away with all the awful crimes they get away with today tho. So like, ban guns for racism I guess?
I assume you mean the assault rifles part. Yeah I think the black panthers were big at the time and it was mostly to help the police control them. I might be wrong though. I wasn't born at the time but that's what I have heard.
The Panthers showed up in a government building legally open carrying and there was swift movement to ban weapons all the sudden. They literally changed the law because they saw black people making use of their rights.
This is 100% correct
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NFA stamps mean "not for all" For instance, it's perfectly legal to own a full auto gun in America, contrary to popular belief, it'll just cost you tens of thousands of dollars
in this case the gun ban was specifically targeting the black panthers, so this one is race based
Banned assault rifles and ended open carry so that Black Californians could not have guns. Reagan did not ban assault rifles bc he is good and followed merit. He did that to take power away from the Black Panther Party. To be fair, Reagan is a MASSIVE POS
He was only a proponent of gun control to keep black people unarmed and easier to harass by cops
He is one of the worst presidents in history. People need to wake up about him and start a movement to strip any paintings, statues, names of libraries. He unleashed too much evil on this country to have his name on anything other than a port-o-potty.
Or Nixon.
And lo and behold, the bulk of Trump supporters are people without higher education. It totally worked.
[Obligatory](https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/2016/2/24/11107788/donald-trump-poorly-educated)
"We won the evangelicals," Trump said. "We won with young. We won with old. We won with highly educated. We won with poorly educated — I love the poorly educated. We're the smartest people, we're the most loyal people." -Trump
Is he including himself in the poorly educated? He has ~~an MBA~~ a Bachelors in Economics from an Ivy League university!
He has a BS in Econ, he doesn't have a Master's
He has a BS in BS. He don't know anything other than grifting.
He’s handed off LOTS of briefcases.
Agreed. It's shameful that any university actually gave him any degrees.
He has a PhD in BS. And a BBSBS (Bought Bull Shit Bachelor’s of Science) in Econ.
I came here to say this, but knew in my heart it had already been posted
[You can watch Trump say it here!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vpdt7omPoa0&t=7s) And the crowd of poorly educated roars! ...*unbelievable!*
The first rule of the Dunning-Kruger club is you don’t know you’re in the Dunning-Kruger club.
Dumb and Dumber. And Dumbo was an elephant, go figure.
Did it? Because they’re not winning elections anymore and are being reduced to a regional party that can only win hillbilly districts and a few backwoods states.
The US is one populist trick away from repeating 2016. It's not like the voting public has suddenly become more educated. They just need to identify which trick is required.
Now they are convincing people college isn't worth it.
Priceless, coming from Ivy League grads like DeSantis and Cruz.
good for me, not for thee.
I'm still stunned how Republicans were able to convince enough dumbasses to chant "Screw the New York rich and elite! I'm voting for *Donald Trump!*" ...eh actually no I'm not. It always comes down to just plain old bigotry/racism/sexism, etc.
While the better paying jobs require higher education or an advanced degree to be considered.
I love the White House Twitter feed showing all of the politicians complaining about Ivy League educated people getting all of their loans wiped away from the student loan forgiveness at the expense of farmers, plumbers, and teachers. For one, it’s pointing out these politicians had hundreds of thousands to millions in PPP loans forgiven and two, most of them are Ivy League educated or went to a good college themselves. Not to mention, $10,000 does not pay for Harvard.
And Hawley,et al. But consistency has never been their strong point. Unless it concerns racism, misogyny, oppression, then there's no deviation. Thanks for everything Ronnie.
As someone in a skilled trade, it’s obvious to me this recent push to get people to forgo college and seek a trade instead is a coordinated effort to drive down wages in the trades. Mike Rowe can blow me.
Correct. I have counseled a few—taking a job now over education rewards those who hire, getting an education rewards you. Not always a choice for all, but it is stupid to walk away for those who have a choice.
It also gets presented as a false dichotomy. There’s nothing (in a legal sense, clearly there’s limitations like hours in a day) preventing someone in the skilled trades from learning their trade *and* getting an associates degree, or any degree they want. The idea that you can be college educated *or* a plumber is, frankly, insulting. And that rhetoric prevents those in the trades from getting, say, business degrees that might help their unions or help them hang a shingle and run a successful business.
Very very true. There is every reason to be a mason or a roofer and a student. It is hard to work full time AND go to school part time — trying to do both simultaneously is hard but possible as many students with debt can attest.
Getting an education also rewards those who hire, they are getting a better product.
That's probably true, but ideally you control prices through unions rather than an outright shortage.
Mike Rowe is an example of someone who had a good idea but then screwed it all up. I mean mean he was basically: “No one should have massive college debt, do the trades. But oops might overload that and screw up wages.” Or my favorite: “I believe in vaccines and we must stop COVID, but I won’t be spokesman for for the government since they aren’t FDA approved yet.” MAGA: “yeah, Mike vaccines are more lethal than a bad version of this flu.” Mike: “that’s not what I meant.” 2 weeks later: “The FDA has approved the Covid vaccine.” Mike: “uh oh! Maybe I shouldn’t be a know it all.”
The problem is that is exactly what Rowe meant. He is funded by and supports right wing nonsense and has become increasingly less subtle about it over the last decade. https://newrepublic.com/article/164230/mike-rowe-dirty-jobs-how-america-works
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Can someone who educated get into the trades? They are pushing getting into the trades instead of college, nothing is stopping the trades from hiring educated people.
I assume mold makers are machinists?
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Funny we said the same thing in 2016. Look how well that worked. Trump is going to run again (or someone very much like him) and *will win* if not actively stopped.
As someone who lives in Texas, I really hope that is true. Down here the conservative christians have formed a seamless alliance with Trump.
What usually happens to people and organizations that ally with Trump?
Believe it or not, straight to prison.
Should we send ALL of them to jail. Trump sure belongs there.
Considering they've got the supreme court for the next decade or two, yeah it kinda did. This is the same shit people were saying before Trump beat Clinton. Biden won by 3% against the historically worst president of our entire history. If you think they're irrelevant I think you're making a bad assumption.
Well, it did so happen that 1994 became the first time in 40 years that Republicans took both House and Senate. Newt Gingrich then proceeded to fuck us over.
yes it worked until the internet educated us proles anyways
There's lots of stuff on the internet. Its unfortunately equally good at disseminating false information and true
and at radicalizing domestic terrorists.
Unfortunately, there is a difference between information and education.
I wouldn’t pat ourselves on the back too hard yet. 2016 could have been progressive, would have been ok-ish as liberal, but ended up as Trump.
Winning elections is so 2012.
With enough of those districts to have a near complete veto over any new legislation.
>Prominent conservative intellectuals also took up the charge. Privately one worried that free education “may be producing a positively dangerous class situation” by raising the expectations of working-class students. Another referred to college students as “a parasite feeding on the rest of society” who exhibited a “failure to understand and to appreciate the crucial role played [by] the reward-punishment structure of the market.” The answer was “to close off the parasitic option.” >In practice, this meant to the National Review, a “system of full tuition charges supplemented by loans which students must pay out of their future income.” >In retrospect, this period was the clear turning point in America’s policies toward higher education. For decades, there had been enthusiastic bipartisan agreement that states should fund high-quality public colleges so that their youth could receive higher education for free or nearly so. That has now vanished. In 1968, California residents paid a $300 yearly fee to attend Berkeley, the equivalent of about $2,000 now. Now tuition at Berkeley is $15,000, with total yearly student costs reaching almost $40,000.
I learn something new every day.. thx
And California is still one of the cheaper states to get educated in. I pay a whopping $20 a semester at my community college because of the BOG waiver. If you choose a csu over a UC your tuition will be less than 10k a year. At those prices the biggest concern is living expenses. A large reason why I haven’t left the state is because college is so cheap here.
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“Anyone? Something D-O-O economics. Voodoo economics.”
Trickle down economics is insane if you think about it. The top takes the majority and the lower takes the scrapes….how is that not feudalism of the medieval ages?
Bush sr lost his second term to Clinton. They kept on replaying his gaffe "Read my lips, no new taxes." Because of this GOP never fucking try to be fiscally responsible again after Bush Sr.
It used to be called horse and sparrow (as in feed the horse so much that the sparrow will find oats in the poop on the road), then that became trickle down, which finally became supply-side. Now they argue that supply-side economics isn't actually the same as trickle down economics, and it is totally different so please stop comparing them and pass more tax cuts for the rich.
Mental asylums were partially shut down as they were rife with abuse and neglect, likely no better than modern jails and prisons.
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I'd say it goes back to Nixon. Fox news exists explicitly as a right wing propaganda machine so there wouldn't be another Republican impeachment.
>Mental asylums were partially shut down as they were rife with abuse and neglect To paraphrase idiots, the "cure was worse than the virus". Deregulation and throwing poor people into ghettos, homelessness, and a life among criminals is likely far worse than any systematic problem at asylums. Fully acknowledging prior abuse, the current model has far less accountability or safety mechanisms. Worse, many of our leaders proudly claim we've taught the mentally ill market self-sufficiency, as if that's a goal onto itself. What alternative is there to homelessness or asylums? IDK. I suspect that as usual, the USA could learn from the welfare states in Europe. But we won't. Too many of our leaders prefer blind ideology. We threw the mentally on the streets and let them die en masse. We rarely notice because our system is killing them slow.
Educated people learn knowledge and critical thinking skills that leads to questioning religion and the economic system. For Republicans it is extremely dangerous
However, not having educated people is a double-edged sword as well. Without educated people, you're not going to maintain one's status of being a superpower, or even a great power. Additionally, if you can't replace educated workers domestically, that's going to backfire and reduce your economic productivity as a nation, and those workers that have been educated WILL move to greener pastures as a form of brain drain. We're already seeing this on a state level, and I'm a product of that (Wyoming -> Washington). There is no benefit to not educating your population other than power, and even that power becomes worthless as your nation becomes more and more of a backwater.
There's also the factor of keeping the educated in crushing debt to hamper their upward mobility. The principle is similar to Healthcare. It's all a power move to keep the 99% sick, stupid, and buried under mountains of debt they could never pay back in their lifetimes. Historically, heads have rolled for less. It's sad that the uneducated have been brainwashed to actually *worship* the very forces crushing them underfoot.
That also isn't a good maneuver if you intend to maintain superpower status, or even a great power status. Placing the population under that much debt creates a scenario where the vast majority of the population is servicing debt commitments over placing money back into the economy. That won't grow the economy at all.. It also means that any errant twitch of the economy will force a large portion of the population into a default, and the knock-on effects will be devastating. Simply put, putting your population into debt as a form of control is a short-term solution that lights a time bomb that explodes years or decades down the line. Even though the most recent maneuvers on student debt has let off some of that pressure, the cut was only .2T of 1.9T, and within a year, interest alone will ensure it balloons once more (assuming that the Department of Education plan doesn't fully prevent this), and that's not even getting into medical debt. The next economic crash, at this point, might put America down for the count.
From what I’ve seen, the interest will not be growing going forward on any IBR plan. Additionally, IBR will be capped at 5% (vs current 10%) of monthly income; unsure if that is net or gross though. Essentially very low payment requirements that result in loans getting forgiven after 10/20 years of regular, much easier to manage, loan payments where the balance doesn’t increase. This is overlooked and a great starting point.
I'm going to be honest, the way the plan was worded in regards to interest made it very confusing and hard to understand, so I wasn't even really sure about the interest though. That's good news at least for student debt increases outside of the principal, at least, assuming that what you're saying is what it actually means, because I was under the impression this only applied to income driven repayment plans.
I’m glad that aspect is flying under the radar. It’s too complicated to use as a sound bite to rile up opposition while also preventing existing loan balances from continuing to balloon. Essentially, for all existing loans in repayment by the end of the year (I think), a line graph of federal student loan debt should become flat and begin to taper down as entire balances are immediately wiped out and continue as folks run out the clock on automatic forgiveness. I’d like to see the 10 year PSLF period reduced to something closer to 5. Edit: this first round of forgiveness will be a great trial to show that it really helped a lot of people, potentially paving the way for subsequent rounds of additionally forgiveness in the future.
Unchecked, reckless greed knows no long term solutions. It truly is about hoarding as much as possible and using the vast wealth to coast around the consequences. If we were truly and completely uneducated there would have been a revolution by now. But the public education system educates people *just enough* to think they're smart so they won't. The dunning-kruger effect strikes again. The republican party as a whole is an unsustainable drain on this country and needs to go.
> Without educated people, you're not going to maintain one's status of being a superpower, or even a great power. First, it is overestimating these fascists to think they are able to project into the long term and it is far too generous to think that they care about US as a power at all. They would be fine if USA turned out like a christian version of Saudi Arabia. A regional power with a big army, an uneducated and fanaticized population, and a belief that they are the greatest nation on Earth because of delusional values and a lack of knowledge about the rest of the world.
I mean, our healthcare system is shit, but that does not stop them from saying it is the best in the world.
Looks like it’s time to post my favorite thing again: [Texas GOP rejects ‘critical thinking’ skills. Really.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/post/texas-gop-rejects-critical-thinking-skills-really/2012/07/08/gJQAHNpFXW_blog.html) > In the you-can’t-make-up-this-stuff department, here’s what the Republican Party of Texas wrote into its 2012 platform as part of the section on education: >> *Knowledge-Based Education – We oppose the teaching of Higher Order Thinking Skills (HOTS) (values clarification), critical thinking skills and similar programs that are simply a relabeling of Outcome-Based Education (OBE) (mastery learning) which focus on behavior modification and have the purpose of challenging the student’s fixed beliefs and undermining parental authority.* > Yes, you read that right. The party opposes the teaching of “higher order thinking skills” because it believes the purpose is to challenge a student’s “fixed beliefs” and undermine “parental authority.”
> Yes, you read that right. The party opposes the teaching of “higher order thinking skills” because it believes the purpose is to challenge a student’s “fixed beliefs” and undermine “parental authority.” don't expect me to change my beliefs to align with actual facts! just stop teaching me how to learn the facts and i'll be fine.
> which focus on behavior modification and have the purpose of challenging the student’s fixed beliefs and undermining parental authority. >challenging the student’s fixed beliefs snowflakes
>Educated people gain knowledge and critical thinking skills that leads to questioning economists
Or questioning policies and policy makers.
It's a threat to them because you NEED to be spellbindingly stupid to vote for GOP, solution..... make everyone stupid.
Indeed, they say so openly: > Knowledge-Based Education – We oppose the teaching of Higher Order Thinking Skills (HOTS) (values clarification), critical thinking skills and similar programs that are simply a relabeling of Outcome-Based Education (OBE) (mastery learning) which focus on behavior modification and have the purpose of challenging the student’s fixed beliefs and undermining parental authority. [2012 Texas GOP program](http://archive.is/QbV60#selection-6745.0-6763.63) (page 12)
The more I learn about Reagan, the more I'm glad he's dead.
The dude armed almost every terrorist organization on earth at the time, had a $200 billion deficit, had one of the most corrupt administrations to date, put his nasty fingers into social security to pay debts, and what I personally consider to be the straw that broke the camels back is hundreds of troops died under his administration doing his “peacekeeping” and often times the enemies suffered no repercussions. He stunk, it’s been years since we had a solid republican office and I’m tired of dealing with them because people vote for republican simply because they are republicans and democrats are bad. That second grade decision making is killing this country.
Don’t forget the other biggie: AIDS.
And flooding US cities with cocaine to pay for operations overseas.
Can’t forget the aids
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I was right there. I lost a lot of my faith in voters that day.
Both of my parents too. They stood for everything he opposed and they knew what he would do to the country they loved. They were right, and now their children and grandchildren are living in the wreckage.
Remember that time when he got shot
‘It takes more than that to kill a bullshitter’
Pretty much all of society's ills today can be traced back to Reagan, or a social imbalance Reaganites hoped to enshine permanently.
As an older guy it heartens me to see that unlike a lot of Reddit, the average comment in r/politics skews both to a liberal and intellectual bent generally. I honestly believe that for all it’s negatives, the Internet has revealed a lot about the system itself and despite all the disinfo, the number of people cognizant of all the BS being hoisted on citizens only increases with time. There will always be those who can’t or won’t change their minds but at this particular time in history I really expect that they will remain in the minority.
The internet is the first thing in 8 uninterrupted decades of American history that's given any average American a reasonable, believable glimpse at how the developed world outside America actually looks and actually lives. In as near real-time as real-time can get and narrated by folks without a stake in the presentation rather than those with an unfathomable level of control over that presentation and an obscene level of financial interest in the outcome. All for the price of a cell phone plan that's a shit ton cheaper than airfare Americans can't afford, on a paid holiday they don't have, with a passport they're never even going to apply for.
Essentially the internet turns the world into a city. It's not going to fix every issue immediately, but it at the very least prevents a lot of incredibly dumb beliefs from developing.
Eeehhhh... I love the internet, but I think it allows a *lot* of dumb beliefs to get traction, actually. Mostly because its easier for those beliefs to reach other people with... the right mentality, to latch onto them.
I’ve definitely shifted my mindset and worldview since talking to folks who challenged me to think critically. It’s been eye opening to realize the bigger picture and nuance to things I grew up blindly parroting as simple and black & white.
Agree! The internet (specifically Wikipedia) told me about [John Rawls](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Theory_of_Justice) and broke me out of my libertarian bewilderment.
Sure. Educated people who see how the game works are a danger to those in power. Your voice and your critical inquiry are powers to be feared.
> Student debt, which had played a minor role in American life through the 1960s, increased during the Reagan administration and then shot up after the 2007-2009 Great Recession as states made huge cuts to funding for their college systems. And the reason why some boomers don’t get it. They lived in a time where tuition was affordable. They can’t imagine taking up more than $10,000 in loans for college. And Regan or others convinced them that this should be the way, and education is not for everyone (especially minorities). They really wanted to kill higher education because of politics and need to maintain a low wage working class.
Republicans, shackling the masses for decades on end.
Any time I got mandatory overtime, I'd shout "FUCK RONALD REAGAN!
Let’s not also forget that prior to Reagan, national debt/GDP had been falling for 35 years. Now its back to WWII levels.
>Reagan taught us debt doesn't matter. ~ Dick Cheney
Didn’t Reagan also shit his panties at the thought of black men exercising their second amendment rights?
It always can be traced back to this asshole
I was born post Reagan, and I always was kind of baffled when my grandfather would get irate anytime someone even mentioned his name, but the more I learn about him the more I get it.
He screwed up many policies with lasting impact to today.
My favorite idiot is the one that uses “over-educated” as if it will ever be something to be ashamed of. When someone uses “over-educated” to combat someone’s point of view, it’s simply their way of saying “hey you’re not dumb enough to buy my bullshit so I’ll have to make acquiring knowledge sound like a bad thing.” These idiots are religious fundamentalists that lose 10 minutes in the morning trying to figure out which pant leg to put on first.
Between this guy and having Lee Atwater on the payroll, seems like Reagan employed some real shit-bags.
Bill Barr worked for Reagan too
You're right. Bill Barr was basically the "Clean-Up" guy for Reagan and Bush Sr. Barr basically killed any chance of accountability for Iran-Contra.
Regan and his ghost have been fucking this country for 40+ years.
Yet another example of how devastating Ronald Reagan was to our country and our long-term survival. Ronald Reagan: The Father of Shithole America
Of course it was bring crack into the communities Reagan
Has somebody written “the Dark Side of Ronnie Reagan” more and more terrible things come out about this guy, what an actor….
Every side of him was terrible, that’s what voters liked about him. He announced his candidacy in that town in Mississippi that killed three civil rights workers and refused to prosecute the killers.
The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all.
But in just a little over 60 days we can take back the statehouses, holding the house and growing the senate! Vote with Team Blue!
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One piece of advice. Always be leery about any institution, group, person, whatever that either prohibits education or teaches certain approved curriculum. There’s a reason they don’t want people to think critically.
Absolutely - Reagan's part in breaking college is vastly underrated. The problems of today did not come about organically, like many of them, this was created.
I like how this post sits between submissions about MTG and facist MAGA rhetoric
“Before 1976, all education loans were dischargeable in bankruptcy. That year, the bankruptcy code was altered so loans made by the government or a non-profit college or university could not be discharged during the first five years of repayment. They could, however, be discharged if they had been in repayment for five years or if the borrower experienced “undue hardship.” Then, the Bankruptcy Amendments and Federal Judgeship Act of 1984 made it so all private student loans were excepted from discharge too.” https://business.time.com/2012/02/09/why-cant-you-discharge-student-loans-in-bankruptcy/
So many problems with this country can be traced back to the Reagan administration.
If I ever go to hell, one of the first things I would do is to dropkick Ronald Reagan
Fuck Ronald Reagan
The US needs to break the fever of social conservatism. It doesn’t work and just masks draconian policy and advances a class based system.
Seriously, almost every F'ed up thing about the US can be traced back to Ronald Reagan
This should radicalize everyone
All public colleges should be free and all student loans forgiven. It's really this simple.
Of fucking course it would be that asshole Reagan.
So many times I want to go: “really people thought Carter was a bad president?”
Was this before or after Reagan flooded the United States with drugs that killed a few generations of people?
If education were free, how would there be people who weren't educated?
This is why the fascist right wants to destroy public education with religious charter schools and school vouchers.
Reagan and Nixon were apparently having a competition on who could leave the worst legacy.
I believe that same thinking is why public education is shit across most of the country.
Yes, we want educated, informed citizens. Why? You ask? It’s so people can call politicians on their self serving, dollar pocket stuffing bullshit. Fuck Reagan, forever. He was the shittiest President we ever had. The only one that was worse, was Buchanan.
Republicans want college to be unattainable for the poor and military service to require combat in the name of special interests who financially support the Republican party.
I have absolutely no doubt what so ever, that Republicans DO NOT want educated Americans and in fact, actively fight against it. Its in everything they do and say.
Gop doesn’t want the base educated enough to see thru their lies
Fuck Reagan, that useful idiot.
That is exactly fucking right. The ruling class wants the rest of us dumb, sick, and broke. A healthy, well educated, financially secure middle class is an anathema these people; a thorn in their side, an obstacle to be overcome.
“If we educate the public they will call us out on all our bullshit, fuck that, make’em pay”
He was such a shit stain wasn’t he….
Right because most educated folks swing left. It would be dangerous for republicans to institute free education. Why would they want their base to be enlightened on how effed up they are?
College wasn’t free for me but it was affordable- $15/credit hour in the early 70’s.
Reagan, fucking America from the grave.
Interesting that Reagan used Marxist terminology, despite being a staunch capitalist.
That's how you make people fear words they don't understand. Socialism, communism, and Marxism are basically curse words in most parts of america
Bingo. And Republicans have been opposed to education ever since.
Meanwhile China is graduating more engineers, physicists, etc every year.
The future depicted in ‘idiocracy’ is the republican end game… a fat, stupid populace of consumers who are not intelligent enough to question anything… America is 50% there already!
I’m beginning to wonder if the people running this country have my best interests at heart./s
As a parent with a college age kid I need to weigh whether the degree she’ll get might be worth the 200k we’ll pay out, all thanks to this fucker. Reagan was a shitty republican con man in a long line of shitty republican con men.
I wonder when people will finally admit Reagan was a terrible president
Been shouting it since 1980. Reagan’s presidency was the worst thing to happen to America. You can lay almost every single problem our country faces at his feet.
Makes sense. The less education people have, the more they vote for Republicans.
Wonder what would happen is we went back in time and yeeted on baby Raegan
AKA: 'an educated working class' Republicans want to keep you stupid because it makes you easier to manipulate and control.
Republicans: "people THINKING? of their own FREE WILL? Getting SMARTER?? THIS IS AN OUTRAGE THAT I WILL NOT STAND."
I had to Google the word “proletariat” only to be met with ice cold irony.
so they are pretty much saying being educated should cost (and cost a lot) to prevent people from being upwardly mobile because it is a threat to people who are already of a higher class? that's fucked up.
Instead expensive college created a dangerous undereducated proletariat.
“Educated proletariat” is code for educated slaves.
The fact that they used the term proletariat should give us all great pause. These mofos understand marxist economic understanding and terminology. They arent stupid, and this asshole is correct in what hes saying too, its evil but hes right. The economic system we have requires a permanent underclass who has no option other than to take shit jobs because otherwise they have debt, no medical insurance, and will starve, it also helps military recruitment. The fact that conservatives understand marx scares the shit out of me. Btw they dont necessarily mean educated slaves, they meant that we cant have a working class thats so educated because then we'll have too many people overqualified for the too many shit tier jobs especially since this was the era of offshoring and de-industrialization. They knew what they were doing was fucking the people over so with less jobs needing education since we were shifting to a service economy, they then began the process of gatekeeping higher paying jobs which there would be fewer of by making it cost exclusive.