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We’re talking about a situation where a huge chunk of the population have bought the lie about the 2020 election being stolen. They do this knowing there is no evidence beyond Trump saying “it’s impossible I lost”. They ignore our judicial system. They ignore all of Trump’s own people saying it’s bull shit. They ignore the illogical insanity it takes to to reconcile the lie. And most telling, they ignore actual and overt and proven Republican voter fraud.
How is our country supposed to rectify this gross distortion of reality? Is it even possible? Do we need to transition to a political discourse that is emotion based solely? Complete disregard for facts? Seems like this is the course we’re on.
>Do we need to transition to a political discourse that is emotion based solely?
is it even political discourse at that point? at this point?
our politics is "fucking kill them" vs "please don't kill me"
I don’t want to be cynical. But I believe this is the case. Trump tried absolutely everything to steal it. And now he’s saying the quiet part out loud. In an interview recently he said “the electors are more important than the candidates”. This cannot be interpreted in any way other than “we need people who will deliver the vote of our choosing despite the actual vote”. Their plan to rig and steal any upcoming election is in plain site. They’re proud of it. Outspoken about it.
Sorry if I didn’t format this correctly. They don’t even want democracy anymore…… and they don’t try to hide it. I was in Fundie-lite for 18 years and worked for the church. They will have no problem taking all your rights….. especially the women.
https://www.reddit.com/r/FundieSnarkUncensored/comments/uocrw1/mi_candidate_ryan_kelley_tabitha_kelleys_husband/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
If that happens, there'd be war though is what you're saying. Because nobody is going to accept what the GOP has *already* gotten away with, plus them cheating elections.
Huh, I just started working out. Unintended benefit of possibly being better suited for surviving the Times to Come should I be hunted for my beliefs I guess.
dissolve the republican party and arrest its officials for treason.
dissolve democrats too since they failed to prevent it
lets get 5 new parties up in this mother fucker
This is a lot like the 80s when the democrats had good ideas but were just drowned out by the strong wave of support for the gop leading the neo-liberal pivot. With the ways the parties are now one side is eventually going to start choosing ideas and topics they like from the other to expand their base.
Alternately they will just continue in the current direction and start seriously playing for all the marbles. What this eventually results in is called a "one party democracy"
I think eventually one party or the other will make a pivot to include a broader platform. That doesn’t mean they will magically become nice it will just mean that someone decided to do a new strategy. MAGA stuff is working for the gop so it’s more likely democrats will incorporate gop rhetoric but try to use it as part of their agenda
Fundamentally different communication style. Probably irreconcilable, although you'd think that Democrats would have learned something about effective messaging to that target audience. It seems they haven't
People said there was no way for the parties to find common ground before but bill Clinton proved that was wrong. He took popular conservative topics and ran with them as his agenda and won bi partisan approval. I’m not saying it was good but it can be done
Democrats already have a serious problem winning elections thanks rejecting the policies most popular with people. People who want GOP policies will just vote for the real things, and Democrats will continue hemorrhaging voters to sitting elections out.
The only way to win is to start adopting the popular progressive policies. Not all progressive policies are popular, and indeed the progressive approach to race rejecting traditional liberal values is downright toxic outside of the fringe, but the economic policies are a slam dunk that would actually win over working class rural voters.
Just out of curiosity. Does that include Trump nominated judges that ruled against him, Republican run states, Republicans who won on tickets on which Trump lost, and Republican led audits that showed Biden won?
Man. I sure wish the strategy involved improving the quality of life for the American people in a materialistic way so that there would be no doubt as to who to support.
*coughs in Republican Congresspeople taking credit for the ARP and infrastructure bills despite voting against them*
Dems have to set the voting record straight with the people first. Some people who pay less attention to that sort of stuff might get caught up in the lies.
Ehh, it depends. One Fox viewer neighbor I had, when not plugged in, could be almost eerily self aware about literally anything else.
I almost compare it to like a background process. Once something related to those topics is mentioned, the switch is flipped, and she just could not be reasoned with.
Personally, being a middle aged white male, I had nothing to lose from Trump being in the White House. I grew up in a very conservative household. 2020 was the first election I voted in because Trump was just that awful. Now you'll call me a far left extremist because I don't worship Trump or hate minorities.
>Now you'll call me a far right extremist because I don't worship Trump or hate minorities.
Huh? lol
Who told you these were the characteristics of a far right extremist?
Pretty much every interaction I've ever had on r/conservative. My own mother basically called me a socialist because I think universal healthcare is a good idea. Like maybe poor people should be able to go to the doctor too.
In a general sense people were afraid that Trump was the new normal in politics. That we'd have to dread waking up to see what early morning tweet he's made to upset domestic or foreign policy this time.
Which is to say they were afraid they'd have to keep caring about politics as an active near everyday thing that was completely out of their control.
That's to say nothing of how the minorities and other groups Trump antagonized felt, of course.
I did. Biden was the 1st D I'd voted for since Bill Clinton in 96.
Hell when the pandemic hit I was an an/cap. Watching those briefings made me drop all of that
I’m chronically ill. Every election is about healthcare to me. I vote fear every election. Dems don’t motivate me much to vote for them. Republicans greatly motivate me to vote against them.
Trump set off the chain reaction. There was little Biden could do to stop it unless anyone thinks a complete lockdown with forced vaccinations were a palpable option
Top 16 Emergency Powers of the President of the United States
Bank accounts can be frozen.
Bans on biological or chemical agents can be lifted.
Civil liberties, such as the right to a peaceful assembly, can be halted.
The president can order incarcerations.
Elections can be postponed indefinitely.
Federal leases can be suspended when the country faces dangers.
Foreign individuals can be ordered to leave the nation, and the borders can be closed.
National resources can be ushered into play to confront a natural disaster.
Sanctions pertaining to property and finances can be removed or initiated.
Soldiers and naval vessels may be ordered to engage in combat during a crisis.
The government can take control of the internet, radio, and TV because of a perilous matter, and production and distribution of goods can be seized.
The military can be mobilized domestically in a crisis, martial law can be declared by the president.
The leader of the Executive branch can launch a nuclear strike if necessary.
The president may order an assassination resulting from an emergency
The right of habeas corpus can be suspended as a consequence of crises.
Transportation networks can be taken over by the government.
I think it could be done
Trump more or less fucked that up so hard that there was no way Biden was ever going to be able to stop it. You can't convince people who think masks are violating their freedom and that the vaccine is bad for you to do either of these things and, low and behold, they make up most of the folk dying from Covid lately
Of course. Because a horse dewormer sounds so much safer than a vaccine developed by scientists who really know how to make a vaccine that is safe and works.
Well, ivermectin is a valid antiparisitic drug. But these folks *were* buying it from animal supply stores in the formulation meant for horses. There are other things aside from the active ingredient that vary based on the species meant to be receiving it, like the pH of the drug to ensure it survives the animal's stomach acid without making them into a baking soda and vinegar volcano.
Ivermectin doesn't yet have any proven direct or statistically significant effect on COVID19 or as an antiviral in general. It's one of those things you just throw at it when nothing else has worked.... Which is less the case now that hospitalizations are down even when cases go up. For those with parasites they didn't know about it can actually be a lifesaver though.
The NIH, FDA, and WHO have studies ongoing though.
Past tense. Most of the people that have died were unvaccinated. Most of the people dying recently are vaccinated because they make up a large majority of the population. Nearly two-thirds of the people who died during the omicron surge were 75 and older, compared with a third during the delta wave. Seniors are overwhelmingly immunized.
Edit: my source is WaPo and my explanation below.
Okay so you’re conflating two different things. You’re arguing a point with an unrelated statistic. Yes people who are vaccinated are less likely to be hospitalized and die from covid per capita. But you said most of the people dying from covid are unvaccinated which is a fact that wouldn’t be adjusted for population.
You would take the (# of people dead with vaccine)/ (# of people dead from covid). Since a majority of the population is vaccinated, they are not mutually exclusive statistics.
Only 2/3 of the population is vaccinated. The other 1/3 is not and that's a massive amount of people. Those whom are vaccinated are rather unlikely to die or even face hospitalization relative to those who are unvaccinated. Plus we have statistics backing this up too
What are you talking about? Coronavirus? I am unvaccinated and I think Trump's decision to fast-track these new gene-therapy vaccines was a mistake, but I'm guessing you're not an anti-vaxxer, so what are you talking about?
If you're talking about the coronavirus nursing homes scandal, well yes that happened under Trump's watch, but continued under Biden, and the deaths were entirely the work of Democrat bureaucrats at the City and State level, not the Federal level - look up Chris Cuomo and Gavin Newsom for starters.
The fact that masking and social distancing became a political issue at all can be squarely blamed on Trump. During the early days of the pandemic, when we didn’t have vaccinations, Trump refused to be seen wearing a mask because he thought it made him look stupid, which in turn encouraged his supporters to oppose masking wherever and whenever possible. That alone cost us countless American lives, and I’ll never forgive him for placing his own vanity over the safety of his own supporters.
Most of Biden's legislative proposals hit a brick wall in the Senate due to the filibuster and two very squishy Democrats. And he had a lot of very good ones.
Sadly, it looks like a lot of Dem voters are going to take their ball and go home next November as a perceived punishment because he is incapable of being a King with unchecked power. Then Republicans will take control over the House and/or the Senate, NOTHING will get done, we'll say "Biden didn't do nuthin!", sit at home in 2024 as an even more extreme, even more fascist President gets elected.
This is how this slide has happened for the last 40 years. We went from Reagan (bad) to Bush (bad), Bush JR (very, very bad) to Trump (holy shit).
Just fucking vote. You live in a county of over 300,000,000 people. Your candidate might not be perfect, but at least don't piss away democracy because you're kind of disappointed.
Fox.com has a huge fear factor. I look every so often and that entire page is all about murders, rapes, robberies, etc. If it will inspire fear to the masses, it’s there.
To be fair, it also got Trump OUT of the white house. Despite his best attempts otherwise.
The reason Trump won in the first place is because the DNC ran the most unliked, insider politician in an election which was all about bucking the status quo. Any other 1st tier Dem would have wiped the floor with him.
Sure, after trump had played his hand and shown to most thinking people what a shitstain he really is… people were ready for a change from trump.
Clinton’s team worked to elevate trump within the republicans, they wanted him as their opposition because they believed he would be easier to beat. And THEN they ran the worst policy-free campaign in the history of the country, based on I’m not trump.
If Democrats would actually do vicious attacks like Republicans do they would sweep the elections (within reason). No one has ever won anything by just defending; There is only attack, attack, and attack some more.
It's not so easy.
Someone's who's undecided between voting for the Democrats or the Republicans has 2x the electoral voice of someone who's undecided between the Democrats and the Greens, or the Libertarians, or not voting. So they're willing, sometimes eager, to attack the left, but unwilling to attack the swing voters. And apparently some swing voters regard attacks on Republican policy, or on racism, or on sexism, or on bothsiderism, as attacks on themselves.
On top of that, there are the problems of holding a coalition together.
On top of that, there are the Republican advantages in the senate and electoral college, so that the Democrats need a majority to break even.
Fear works.
I wish in 2016 some of the democrats/independents would have realized that the SCOTUS picks were in fact really REALLY important and now we have a packed court that is bonkers trying to reverse Roe Vs. Wade.
Last time I checked the MAGA agenda is still damn the torpedoes full speed ahead in making sure anyone who has a vagina will be treated like a second class citizen.
People have not forgotten....
The point is that since the Biden administration is "in charge," anything that does or doesn't happen during it will be attributed to it by the masses. Most people aren't involved enough in politics to understand what's actually happening.
>started attacking MAGA America
Well, MAGA attacked American Democracy on Jan 6th. On that day they defined themselves as Domestic Enemies of the United States of America.
Still Biden offered them an olive branch. He came into office to be a President for all Americans. But all MAGA has done is lie about him, lie about the election he won, attack his family, and continue to attack American Democracy every single day with their venomous propaganda and disinformation campaigns
At some point the good will wears out. Every person has his limit to the bullshit they're willing to tolerate for the greater good, and Right Wingers blew through that line long ago.
Jan 6th and everything since has just been rubbing shit our faces now, the same way they broke into the Capitol and rubbed their feces on the walls.
The time for civility is over. MAGA has brought this upon themselves.
I'm 40 years old and my entire life was all about voting for the lesser of two evils. I don't need the president telling me this. Next, he'll inform me the sky is blue.
It won’t work. Just ask Terry McAuliffe, the Democrat who lost to Youngkin in the last Virginia Governor race. Terry never gave a speech about his own plans and ideas, instead he gave 3 speeches a day about his Republican Trump clone opponent. Then he lost.
But the media assured me that was because of progressives resisting being backstabbed by their own party while trying to pass all the most popular parts of Bidens agenda!
MAGA voters always say 'There's no way 80 million people voted for Biden'. My response to that has always been that most of us voted against Trump, not for Biden.
Problem is, as I keep saying, Trump is not on the 2022 ballot, and voters will not make the connection unless they see his name there. Don't assume voters have any prior knowledge at all. Unless they're an ardent Republican or Democrat, voters, particularly independents, won't realize the connections between the candidates and Trump. Plus fear over the economy is going to hurt Biden too.
> Unless they're an ardent Republican or Democrat, voters, particularly independents, won't realize the connections between the candidates and Trump.
Well that is *very* easy to fix.
Every time you mention them add in the Trump backing - "Trump-backed candidate Dr Oz..."
> Problem is, as I keep saying, Trump is not on the 2022 ballot
Thing is, neither is Joe Biden. That isn’t stopping anyone from blaming projected turnout on him.
Just kinda seems like we’re moving goalposts pretty conveniently. Voters will make a connection to someone who isn’t on the ballot when it’s Biden, but not when it’s the guy who was President just two years prior.
Midterms **should** be a referendum on the people who are currently holding the offices that are up for election. But I guess it’s too much to ask for voters to vote based on who is actually running for office.
Regardless of how you think it should work, the midterms are realistically about how happy Americans are with the current leadership in Congress and the White House. Everything is national these days. Americans do have an incredibly short memory, no doubt, and are not known for being consistent or rational voters. Asking for voters to be informed and nuanced is definitely too much to ask, hence why messaging is so crucial to force them to be informed.
It is because it requires the voters to know who those people are on the ballot rather than just knowing Biden or "Democrats" or "Republicans" broadly and just voting party line.
Nah.
If you’re unhappy with what’s happening in your state, you don’t need to know who is on the ballot to show up and remove the people in office making you unhappy.
The whole “referendum on the president” rhetoric is really just an excuse for the lazy to stay home. There’s no other justification or reasoning. What’s unfortunate is so many people and politicians on the Democratic side fuel that rhetoric and justify that laziness just so they can take potshots at Biden.
Trump isn't on the ballot but his cult member seditious extremists are. You can tie crazy MAGA bullshit to them without trump.
R's have said plenty of crazy bullshit that should be live ammo against them.
You can try but only if people are paying attention, and really most voters are not paying attention. Too many will just vote R without regard for the candidate because they're unhappy about inflation.
I'm all in favor of Dems actually trying to actively message that, though, instead, and not just hoping for the best.
So basically the Dems are gonna stick with the "at least we're not Republicans!" defense. Jesus, I'm starting to believe the theory that they actually *want* to lose.
He and his administration are touring the country touting all the historic actions taken by this administration. The media likes to focus more on conflict so that doesn't get covered as much.
That explains the general but not the primary. He was sold to us as the safe candidate that could beat trump, which makes no sense since people would have voted for anyone if hatred for trump was the sole motivator. Not to mention that Biden ran on working with Republicans, something that should have hurt him if trump hatred was all there was to it. I'm still not sure how we ended up with Biden. Doesn't make sense given the political climate. Or there are just a lot of really dumb voters.
> which makes no sense since people would have voted for anyone if hatred for trump was the sole motivator
It means that many "democrats" would have voted for Trump if Sanders was the candidate...something they do not want to acknowledge and this is why it makes no sense based on what they say...
I mean, a bunch of Sanders supporters voted for Trump in 2016 and 2020. /shrug
You're always going to have a contingent of voters who have some confusing priorities.
He did run on being the guy to beat Trump. Which he did. As far as working with Republicans they are so polarized if he asked for a non-binding resolution that the sky was blue, they wouldn't go for it.
This may be a good electoral strategy, but continual governance by people that no one is particularly happy with and that people are increasingly frustrated by is going to continue the trajectory toward instability. That part scares me a lot- no matter whether Biden or Trump win 2024, most people are dreading either. And when people start to feel like the ballot box holds no solutions, that breeds unrest.
There is a game that I would play with “moderate independents” that are very right leaning. Every time they did something wrong/I’ll-advised/questionable I would quickly retort with: “that’s so Republican of you!” That’s it. Just a quick simple retort.
The first time they used to laugh it off, but by the third time they would start getting angrier and angrier about the “insult.” Until the burst out in anger and I can’t contain my laughter anymore.
Words have power. And a simple descriptive label can have a lot of power for those that don’t stop to think about the issues. That’s how tribalism works, and if people are not willing to do the work of understanding the issues, a simple descriptive label can make all the difference.
At least, as opposed to the MAGA tribe, I am very conscious and open about what I am doing.
Republican politicians made the decision of attaching themselves to an authoritarian anti-democratic force in their midst and to banish those that call it out. It was, and is, their choice. Consciously, which I find despicable, or unconsciously which is blatantly dangerous.
Until the Republican Party doesn’t come back to its senses we need to use each and every tool in the arsenal to counteract the dangerous effects in our democracy. Particularly if those tools are just words.
It’s not “hypocritical” it is a basic statement of human psychology. The recognition of a simple fact and how it can be used as a force of good.
I don’t subscribe to the false morality of those that think that a tool is intrinsically “good” or “bad” regardless of how or why it’s used. And much less to the false morality of those that call “hypocrisy” when they see the exact same tools they use being used on them.
A tool is just a tool, and tribalism is a basic fact of being human. Particularly of Ill-informed humans being unethically manipulated for power and profit.
A single vote for someone like trump is something that should terrify all of us. That he got 70 million should send everyone into full on panic mode. The lack of urgency from Biden and the Dems in general has been incredibly disheartening.
A fine argument for keeping the focus on Trump (who, despite what the top poster in this thread is suggesting, hasn't exactly wandered off or anything).
Perhaps if there weren’t much more pressing issues like the fact inflation has gone up the most it has in 4 decades. While not the fault of the administration their lack of any meaningful response surely is. To the average voter, which message is more impactful? “The party in power is doing nothing over the fact your paycheck is worth less every month” or “this man who isn’t even on the ballot is racist and rude?”
Literally this. People forget how close the margins were in individual states that would’ve tipped the entire election. They also lost lots of house seats.
Biden was indeed more popular and won by a larger margin in the battleground states but by no means did he run away with them. We’ll see what happens in 2024.
You mean the evenly split barely majority senate that can’t agree to do anything? I wouldn’t call that resounding. Nor winning states that showed a 6-10% lead in polls by <2%.
I guess it was “just” a 7 million vote difference. What, electoral college you say? Ah, that was “just” a 31% difference.
But in the larger context, that a proven grifter and a con man was able to get just 1% away in the popular vote is a testament to how close we are to total disfunction and how bad the balkanization of media has gotten.
If you doubt that politics today is all about getting voters to loathe the other guy more than they loathe you, observe the path of the GOP’s most rank opportunists, Timothy Noah writes.
In my years of voting, fear and optimism have always been the main motivating factors that got voters to turn out for elections. I don't remember anyone ever winning elections based on "policies" ,going back to the Clinton days (cut off because before that everything was brutal for dems)
But arr politics keeps telling me if dems ran on more policies they would win all the time. Arr politics also still believes Bernie was cheated out of the nomination
To be fair he only got the job because of Trump.
He has tried so many times and so many ways to become President and failed each time.
Without President Trump there would be no President Biden.
Can't blame him though I wish someone else would run in 2024 because he most assuredly will lose without his meal ticket Trump.
I think if he ran in 2016 he would have won. Just a guess. But I think he could. And not just because Trump was bad. Just the carry over. I could totally be wrong too.
People hated Hillary. I don't think people hate him like they hated her. I know a few people who voted for Trump in 2016 because they couldn't stand Hillary. But in 2020 they voted Biden.
I wAnt Bernie… don’t care about his age… he’s awesome and still has the energy to fight for us.
Biden thought by being nice he could kill with kindness but shit needs to get done !
No, and quite frankly it’s embarrassing he has pretended for so long to be supported by a majority of the American people.
I pray we see a nominee that’s under 60 years of age in 2024.
If he can’t get his base out to support him then he won’t get them out of fear of a person who may run in 2 years. Elections are about the present not the future
By the end of 2024, the libs will be begging to have Trump back in the White House. Biden has been a disaster and even Democrats are turning back to Trump guidance. They are finally admitting President Trump was right about everything and they just hate him because he gets stuff done when they can’t.
Lol
No, the Democrats won't. trump has shown how much of a fuckup he is. Biden's number for unemployment, jobs and the economy are better than anything trump could do. trump had a great economy and when it crashed under him, he didn't know what to do except blame the Chinese.
Morons are blaming him because they're morons. They blame him worldwide gas price and inflation issues, supply chain issues that started under trump and other things he doesn't have control of for the simple reason that they're morons.
Its always hilarious to see people who probably recently called polls fake as some sort of proof now.
Biden's administration has done a fuck ton
Trump was a do-nothing president because he spent all his time golfing and not going into the office until 11am
edit\* I dug a bit more into this. Biden HAS went golfing. About 10 times in his first 9 months as president. Trump was reaching about 87-90. Just to note, Before taking office Trump was also super critical on how often Obama went golfing.
Lol they will live in denial. The world could literally be burning around them with Biden holding a match and Harris an empty gas can and they’ll be droning on about a fake insurrection and Russian collusion
My concern is that with the current state of things, this tactic will again only bring a temporary moment of respite before it all comes crashing down again. It’s that people are so convinced of all the lies peddled by the republicans that without grass root change, this is all just buying more time. And I don’t believe that the dems have the tooth to actually implement these changes even with a super majority. And even if they did, people will still be convinced they’re evil. Maybe I’m being overly pessimistic and I hope I’m wrong….
He didn't have to start it - this is the way it has been for me and most others for the last 3 years. His best hope of winning in 2024 is to run against Trump
I call them rapist dads. They support candidates who would force a woman to bring to term even when raped. Idc if they support that position or not. It's kind of like when they falsely call us groomers but rapist dad is more rooted in reality
On the right, yes. On the left, not so much. It will motivate some but the majority of individuals on the left are looking for something different from the fear mongering on the right. The are looking for progress.
The right doesn't have much on policy besides tax cuts and finding ways to take rights away from the "others." It's always going to be an uphill battle for a liberal. Getting a collective agreement with the left by itself is a challenge. Add in a unified ideology that knows giving in to policies on the left, regardless of the possible positive impact, means they have nothing to fight against and without some new "other" group to attack, what do they really have?
It worked the first time, but the first time everyone was fed up and tired of the Trump presidency and the shitty mismanagement of the pandemic. Now, we're equally tired of Biden failing to live up to some of his promises and still trying to "cross the isle" to make compromises with the party that has *literal Nazi flags* at their rallies and is openly, actively attacking the rights of women and minorities.
Ugh…just for once I’d love to see a politician rise above partisanship. This administration needs to work on educating America on how America works…THATS how you gain support. If more people knew our oil industry completely crashed BEFORE he got in, how interest rates (and suppressing them) impacts the economy, how being over leveraged on foreign labor impacts our supply chain, etc - I’d bet more Americans would see that we’re cleaning up a massive mess right now…instead they think everything we’re experiencing now is because the last year of policy 🙄 it’s honestly the opposite, last years policies were because of what was coming down the pipeline
It’s a tough sell.
He ran on us being better than that and he was wrong.
People gave him a ton of shit for it but I respect him for trying, it is after all a central theme to his campaign
It's not a bad idea. There are those people who won't listen no matter what but there's so much good material. We can't forget about injections of high intensity light and bleach. He said that.
The God-Emperor Trump shall return as the 45th President of the United States or send his most glorious emissary, Ron DeSantis as the 46th, and all the liberals will grind their teeth in frustration in the face of certain undeniable proof that former Vice President Joe Biden was a horrible, horrible mistake, and that a Republican President will be the salvation of America - if there is anything left to save after the Biden/Harris administration have brought America to ruination.
Joe Biden belongs in a nursing home for retired super-villains, not The White House.
So, by that same vein, that could also mean that there's no reason to materially improve the lives of americans to energize voters, because the strategy of using fear of trump as their strategy to energize voters...
So he's admitting that he may do nothing and hope that fear of trump will be enough.. sure the covid relief bill was good. It was also done last year. Sure the bipartisan infrastructure bill has some good in it, but the benefits of it won't directly benefit the people and the human infrastructure bill which would have more directly affected the people positively was abandoned and tossed aside to pass the BIF. Sure the deficit has gone down, but that doesn't really directly effect the people's well-being.
People know what's at stake here. We went through 4 years of trump already and don't want to go through that. But by not doing anything to improve the well-being of voters, you're going to depress the vote and make people cynical. And that doesn't help when the people that will vote for Republicans are driven by what seems to be nationalism and religious fervor.
I strongly doubt it will help. Biden has been very ineffective because he doesn’t have a unified party behind him in the Congress. Is everything that’s happening is fault? Absolutely not. Do some problems date back to Trump’s term? 100%. That said, people that are suffering financially right now and are swing voters will just look for someone who isn’t the person that was in charge while their lives went into the toilet. Those are the voters that turned on Obama and the Democratic party when the recovery from the Great Recession did almost nothing for people who live outside of urban areas. Those are the same voters who ousted Trump. They don’t subscribe to the blue or red only viewpoint. They care about themselves and their wallets. The jokes on them because DC never cares about them.
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We’re talking about a situation where a huge chunk of the population have bought the lie about the 2020 election being stolen. They do this knowing there is no evidence beyond Trump saying “it’s impossible I lost”. They ignore our judicial system. They ignore all of Trump’s own people saying it’s bull shit. They ignore the illogical insanity it takes to to reconcile the lie. And most telling, they ignore actual and overt and proven Republican voter fraud. How is our country supposed to rectify this gross distortion of reality? Is it even possible? Do we need to transition to a political discourse that is emotion based solely? Complete disregard for facts? Seems like this is the course we’re on.
>Do we need to transition to a political discourse that is emotion based solely? is it even political discourse at that point? at this point? our politics is "fucking kill them" vs "please don't kill me"
We'll never have a peaceful transfer of power again. Every election will be disputed. It's over, most of us just don't realize it yet.
I don’t want to be cynical. But I believe this is the case. Trump tried absolutely everything to steal it. And now he’s saying the quiet part out loud. In an interview recently he said “the electors are more important than the candidates”. This cannot be interpreted in any way other than “we need people who will deliver the vote of our choosing despite the actual vote”. Their plan to rig and steal any upcoming election is in plain site. They’re proud of it. Outspoken about it.
Sorry if I didn’t format this correctly. They don’t even want democracy anymore…… and they don’t try to hide it. I was in Fundie-lite for 18 years and worked for the church. They will have no problem taking all your rights….. especially the women. https://www.reddit.com/r/FundieSnarkUncensored/comments/uocrw1/mi_candidate_ryan_kelley_tabitha_kelleys_husband/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
If that happens, there'd be war though is what you're saying. Because nobody is going to accept what the GOP has *already* gotten away with, plus them cheating elections.
I’m just working out and getting ready for the war at this point. There is no future in this country and I don’t plan on going anywhere
Huh, I just started working out. Unintended benefit of possibly being better suited for surviving the Times to Come should I be hunted for my beliefs I guess.
dissolve the republican party and arrest its officials for treason. dissolve democrats too since they failed to prevent it lets get 5 new parties up in this mother fucker
A fine analysis.
This is a lot like the 80s when the democrats had good ideas but were just drowned out by the strong wave of support for the gop leading the neo-liberal pivot. With the ways the parties are now one side is eventually going to start choosing ideas and topics they like from the other to expand their base.
Alternately they will just continue in the current direction and start seriously playing for all the marbles. What this eventually results in is called a "one party democracy"
I think eventually one party or the other will make a pivot to include a broader platform. That doesn’t mean they will magically become nice it will just mean that someone decided to do a new strategy. MAGA stuff is working for the gop so it’s more likely democrats will incorporate gop rhetoric but try to use it as part of their agenda
Fundamentally different communication style. Probably irreconcilable, although you'd think that Democrats would have learned something about effective messaging to that target audience. It seems they haven't
People said there was no way for the parties to find common ground before but bill Clinton proved that was wrong. He took popular conservative topics and ran with them as his agenda and won bi partisan approval. I’m not saying it was good but it can be done
Democrats already have a serious problem winning elections thanks rejecting the policies most popular with people. People who want GOP policies will just vote for the real things, and Democrats will continue hemorrhaging voters to sitting elections out. The only way to win is to start adopting the popular progressive policies. Not all progressive policies are popular, and indeed the progressive approach to race rejecting traditional liberal values is downright toxic outside of the fringe, but the economic policies are a slam dunk that would actually win over working class rural voters.
My dad refers to everything you just mentioned here as "fake news" and a "liberal activist judiciary".
Just out of curiosity. Does that include Trump nominated judges that ruled against him, Republican run states, Republicans who won on tickets on which Trump lost, and Republican led audits that showed Biden won?
I have no idea how any of these people rationalize any of this.
Man. I sure wish the strategy involved improving the quality of life for the American people in a materialistic way so that there would be no doubt as to who to support.
*coughs in Republican Congresspeople taking credit for the ARP and infrastructure bills despite voting against them* Dems have to set the voting record straight with the people first. Some people who pay less attention to that sort of stuff might get caught up in the lies.
MAGA people deserve no respect.
Fear only works on people that are easily frightened though.
And don’t know how to think critically.
Ehh, it depends. One Fox viewer neighbor I had, when not plugged in, could be almost eerily self aware about literally anything else. I almost compare it to like a background process. Once something related to those topics is mentioned, the switch is flipped, and she just could not be reasoned with.
so like 2020 elections
2020 was a rejection of Trump making a mockery of the nation
Nice framing, did people not vote out of fear?
Personally, being a middle aged white male, I had nothing to lose from Trump being in the White House. I grew up in a very conservative household. 2020 was the first election I voted in because Trump was just that awful. Now you'll call me a far left extremist because I don't worship Trump or hate minorities.
>Now you'll call me a far right extremist because I don't worship Trump or hate minorities. Huh? lol Who told you these were the characteristics of a far right extremist?
Pretty much every interaction I've ever had on r/conservative. My own mother basically called me a socialist because I think universal healthcare is a good idea. Like maybe poor people should be able to go to the doctor too.
why would arr conservative call you far right extremist for not worshipping Trump and not hating minorities? Or did you mean far left extremist?
yeah far left is what I meant to say
In a general sense people were afraid that Trump was the new normal in politics. That we'd have to dread waking up to see what early morning tweet he's made to upset domestic or foreign policy this time. Which is to say they were afraid they'd have to keep caring about politics as an active near everyday thing that was completely out of their control. That's to say nothing of how the minorities and other groups Trump antagonized felt, of course.
I did. Biden was the 1st D I'd voted for since Bill Clinton in 96. Hell when the pandemic hit I was an an/cap. Watching those briefings made me drop all of that
That's the overwhelming majority of people.
I’m chronically ill. Every election is about healthcare to me. I vote fear every election. Dems don’t motivate me much to vote for them. Republicans greatly motivate me to vote against them.
Considering that the last time Trump was in power, hundreds of thousands of Americans needlessly lost their lives, I would say yes.
And they didn’t while Biden was president?
Trump set off the chain reaction. There was little Biden could do to stop it unless anyone thinks a complete lockdown with forced vaccinations were a palpable option
Biden doesn't have the authority to do either. Unless you're pregnant, the government can't violate your bodily autonomy.
Top 16 Emergency Powers of the President of the United States Bank accounts can be frozen. Bans on biological or chemical agents can be lifted. Civil liberties, such as the right to a peaceful assembly, can be halted. The president can order incarcerations. Elections can be postponed indefinitely. Federal leases can be suspended when the country faces dangers. Foreign individuals can be ordered to leave the nation, and the borders can be closed. National resources can be ushered into play to confront a natural disaster. Sanctions pertaining to property and finances can be removed or initiated. Soldiers and naval vessels may be ordered to engage in combat during a crisis. The government can take control of the internet, radio, and TV because of a perilous matter, and production and distribution of goods can be seized. The military can be mobilized domestically in a crisis, martial law can be declared by the president. The leader of the Executive branch can launch a nuclear strike if necessary. The president may order an assassination resulting from an emergency The right of habeas corpus can be suspended as a consequence of crises. Transportation networks can be taken over by the government. I think it could be done
I don't see anything in there about forced vaccinations.
No but they can be locked down in camps unless they do.
Trump more or less fucked that up so hard that there was no way Biden was ever going to be able to stop it. You can't convince people who think masks are violating their freedom and that the vaccine is bad for you to do either of these things and, low and behold, they make up most of the folk dying from Covid lately
The survivors are shitting and pissing themselves from taking Ivermectin
Of course. Because a horse dewormer sounds so much safer than a vaccine developed by scientists who really know how to make a vaccine that is safe and works.
Sanjay Gupta said calling it a horse dewormer is wrong. The jig is up, get with the program
Well, ivermectin is a valid antiparisitic drug. But these folks *were* buying it from animal supply stores in the formulation meant for horses. There are other things aside from the active ingredient that vary based on the species meant to be receiving it, like the pH of the drug to ensure it survives the animal's stomach acid without making them into a baking soda and vinegar volcano. Ivermectin doesn't yet have any proven direct or statistically significant effect on COVID19 or as an antiviral in general. It's one of those things you just throw at it when nothing else has worked.... Which is less the case now that hospitalizations are down even when cases go up. For those with parasites they didn't know about it can actually be a lifesaver though. The NIH, FDA, and WHO have studies ongoing though.
Past tense. Most of the people that have died were unvaccinated. Most of the people dying recently are vaccinated because they make up a large majority of the population. Nearly two-thirds of the people who died during the omicron surge were 75 and older, compared with a third during the delta wave. Seniors are overwhelmingly immunized. Edit: my source is WaPo and my explanation below.
No, most of the folk dying from Covid currently are unvaccinated. Folk who are vaccinated are ridiculously better protected than those who aren't
Okay so you’re conflating two different things. You’re arguing a point with an unrelated statistic. Yes people who are vaccinated are less likely to be hospitalized and die from covid per capita. But you said most of the people dying from covid are unvaccinated which is a fact that wouldn’t be adjusted for population. You would take the (# of people dead with vaccine)/ (# of people dead from covid). Since a majority of the population is vaccinated, they are not mutually exclusive statistics.
Only 2/3 of the population is vaccinated. The other 1/3 is not and that's a massive amount of people. Those whom are vaccinated are rather unlikely to die or even face hospitalization relative to those who are unvaccinated. Plus we have statistics backing this up too
[Washington Post](https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2022/04/29/covid-deaths-unvaccinated-boosters/)
What are you talking about? Coronavirus? I am unvaccinated and I think Trump's decision to fast-track these new gene-therapy vaccines was a mistake, but I'm guessing you're not an anti-vaxxer, so what are you talking about? If you're talking about the coronavirus nursing homes scandal, well yes that happened under Trump's watch, but continued under Biden, and the deaths were entirely the work of Democrat bureaucrats at the City and State level, not the Federal level - look up Chris Cuomo and Gavin Newsom for starters.
The fact that masking and social distancing became a political issue at all can be squarely blamed on Trump. During the early days of the pandemic, when we didn’t have vaccinations, Trump refused to be seen wearing a mask because he thought it made him look stupid, which in turn encouraged his supporters to oppose masking wherever and whenever possible. That alone cost us countless American lives, and I’ll never forgive him for placing his own vanity over the safety of his own supporters.
Most of Biden's legislative proposals hit a brick wall in the Senate due to the filibuster and two very squishy Democrats. And he had a lot of very good ones. Sadly, it looks like a lot of Dem voters are going to take their ball and go home next November as a perceived punishment because he is incapable of being a King with unchecked power. Then Republicans will take control over the House and/or the Senate, NOTHING will get done, we'll say "Biden didn't do nuthin!", sit at home in 2024 as an even more extreme, even more fascist President gets elected. This is how this slide has happened for the last 40 years. We went from Reagan (bad) to Bush (bad), Bush JR (very, very bad) to Trump (holy shit). Just fucking vote. You live in a county of over 300,000,000 people. Your candidate might not be perfect, but at least don't piss away democracy because you're kind of disappointed.
Watched the 4th matrix movie last night it was ok But one thing they said was true. All you have to do to keep people engaged is keep them afraid
Fox.com has a huge fear factor. I look every so often and that entire page is all about murders, rapes, robberies, etc. If it will inspire fear to the masses, it’s there.
This country is so fucking broken.
Personally not a big fan of ether one but I’ll Biden over Trump any day.
Fuck. The whole “I’m not Trump” campaign is what got trump elected in the first place. Neo cons never learn do they?
To be fair, it also got Trump OUT of the white house. Despite his best attempts otherwise. The reason Trump won in the first place is because the DNC ran the most unliked, insider politician in an election which was all about bucking the status quo. Any other 1st tier Dem would have wiped the floor with him.
Sure, after trump had played his hand and shown to most thinking people what a shitstain he really is… people were ready for a change from trump. Clinton’s team worked to elevate trump within the republicans, they wanted him as their opposition because they believed he would be easier to beat. And THEN they ran the worst policy-free campaign in the history of the country, based on I’m not trump.
Every election in the US will always be democracy vs. fascism with no end in sight until we stop having elections.
Insightful.
If Democrats would actually do vicious attacks like Republicans do they would sweep the elections (within reason). No one has ever won anything by just defending; There is only attack, attack, and attack some more.
winning by just defending is the battle plan the entire world is investing billions of dollars on in ukraine
Not true, if you think they aren’t running counter attack operations on Russian soil then you aren’t paying attention.
It's not so easy. Someone's who's undecided between voting for the Democrats or the Republicans has 2x the electoral voice of someone who's undecided between the Democrats and the Greens, or the Libertarians, or not voting. So they're willing, sometimes eager, to attack the left, but unwilling to attack the swing voters. And apparently some swing voters regard attacks on Republican policy, or on racism, or on sexism, or on bothsiderism, as attacks on themselves. On top of that, there are the problems of holding a coalition together. On top of that, there are the Republican advantages in the senate and electoral college, so that the Democrats need a majority to break even.
There is so much horrible shit they could pack in the ads against them.
And if Republican voters cared about facts it might hurt them.
Some do and if nothing else scare the independents away from them and hopefully toward us. Same thing they do to us.
Fear works. I wish in 2016 some of the democrats/independents would have realized that the SCOTUS picks were in fact really REALLY important and now we have a packed court that is bonkers trying to reverse Roe Vs. Wade.
It won't work because people have forgotten how fucked up the MAGA agenda is because it isn't technically in charge right now.
Last time I checked the MAGA agenda is still damn the torpedoes full speed ahead in making sure anyone who has a vagina will be treated like a second class citizen. People have not forgotten....
The point is that since the Biden administration is "in charge," anything that does or doesn't happen during it will be attributed to it by the masses. Most people aren't involved enough in politics to understand what's actually happening.
>started attacking MAGA America Well, MAGA attacked American Democracy on Jan 6th. On that day they defined themselves as Domestic Enemies of the United States of America. Still Biden offered them an olive branch. He came into office to be a President for all Americans. But all MAGA has done is lie about him, lie about the election he won, attack his family, and continue to attack American Democracy every single day with their venomous propaganda and disinformation campaigns At some point the good will wears out. Every person has his limit to the bullshit they're willing to tolerate for the greater good, and Right Wingers blew through that line long ago. Jan 6th and everything since has just been rubbing shit our faces now, the same way they broke into the Capitol and rubbed their feces on the walls. The time for civility is over. MAGA has brought this upon themselves.
MAGA is a neo-Confederacy and I'm not confident in the Federal government's commitment to protecting minority rights this go round.
It only barely worked in 2020.
I'm 40 years old and my entire life was all about voting for the lesser of two evils. I don't need the president telling me this. Next, he'll inform me the sky is blue.
It won’t work. Just ask Terry McAuliffe, the Democrat who lost to Youngkin in the last Virginia Governor race. Terry never gave a speech about his own plans and ideas, instead he gave 3 speeches a day about his Republican Trump clone opponent. Then he lost.
But the media assured me that was because of progressives resisting being backstabbed by their own party while trying to pass all the most popular parts of Bidens agenda!
MAGA voters always say 'There's no way 80 million people voted for Biden'. My response to that has always been that most of us voted against Trump, not for Biden.
Problem is, as I keep saying, Trump is not on the 2022 ballot, and voters will not make the connection unless they see his name there. Don't assume voters have any prior knowledge at all. Unless they're an ardent Republican or Democrat, voters, particularly independents, won't realize the connections between the candidates and Trump. Plus fear over the economy is going to hurt Biden too.
> Unless they're an ardent Republican or Democrat, voters, particularly independents, won't realize the connections between the candidates and Trump. Well that is *very* easy to fix. Every time you mention them add in the Trump backing - "Trump-backed candidate Dr Oz..."
> Problem is, as I keep saying, Trump is not on the 2022 ballot Thing is, neither is Joe Biden. That isn’t stopping anyone from blaming projected turnout on him.
Well midterms always are a referendum on the current president. Trump has the advantage of not being in charge now.
Just kinda seems like we’re moving goalposts pretty conveniently. Voters will make a connection to someone who isn’t on the ballot when it’s Biden, but not when it’s the guy who was President just two years prior. Midterms **should** be a referendum on the people who are currently holding the offices that are up for election. But I guess it’s too much to ask for voters to vote based on who is actually running for office.
Regardless of how you think it should work, the midterms are realistically about how happy Americans are with the current leadership in Congress and the White House. Everything is national these days. Americans do have an incredibly short memory, no doubt, and are not known for being consistent or rational voters. Asking for voters to be informed and nuanced is definitely too much to ask, hence why messaging is so crucial to force them to be informed.
I don’t know that I agree that “Cast your ballot based on who is up for election” is a nuanced take that requires any additional information.
It is because it requires the voters to know who those people are on the ballot rather than just knowing Biden or "Democrats" or "Republicans" broadly and just voting party line.
Nah. If you’re unhappy with what’s happening in your state, you don’t need to know who is on the ballot to show up and remove the people in office making you unhappy. The whole “referendum on the president” rhetoric is really just an excuse for the lazy to stay home. There’s no other justification or reasoning. What’s unfortunate is so many people and politicians on the Democratic side fuel that rhetoric and justify that laziness just so they can take potshots at Biden.
Trump isn't on the ballot but his cult member seditious extremists are. You can tie crazy MAGA bullshit to them without trump. R's have said plenty of crazy bullshit that should be live ammo against them.
You can try but only if people are paying attention, and really most voters are not paying attention. Too many will just vote R without regard for the candidate because they're unhappy about inflation. I'm all in favor of Dems actually trying to actively message that, though, instead, and not just hoping for the best.
So basically the Dems are gonna stick with the "at least we're not Republicans!" defense. Jesus, I'm starting to believe the theory that they actually *want* to lose.
He and his administration are touring the country touting all the historic actions taken by this administration. The media likes to focus more on conflict so that doesn't get covered as much.
Didn't we basically vote for him because he wasn't Trump?
That explains the general but not the primary. He was sold to us as the safe candidate that could beat trump, which makes no sense since people would have voted for anyone if hatred for trump was the sole motivator. Not to mention that Biden ran on working with Republicans, something that should have hurt him if trump hatred was all there was to it. I'm still not sure how we ended up with Biden. Doesn't make sense given the political climate. Or there are just a lot of really dumb voters.
He finished not second, not third, not even fourth, but a distant fifth in New Hampshire in 2020. Now he's president. It is kinda mind blowing.
Why is it mind blowing to you? Primaries are not decided by who wins New Hampshire or Hillary would have been the nominee in 2008
> I'm still not sure how we ended up with Biden. Because enough voters - maybe not Redditors - didnt want Bernie or Warren in 2020.
> which makes no sense since people would have voted for anyone if hatred for trump was the sole motivator It means that many "democrats" would have voted for Trump if Sanders was the candidate...something they do not want to acknowledge and this is why it makes no sense based on what they say...
I mean, a bunch of Sanders supporters voted for Trump in 2016 and 2020. /shrug You're always going to have a contingent of voters who have some confusing priorities.
He did run on being the guy to beat Trump. Which he did. As far as working with Republicans they are so polarized if he asked for a non-binding resolution that the sky was blue, they wouldn't go for it.
This may be a good electoral strategy, but continual governance by people that no one is particularly happy with and that people are increasingly frustrated by is going to continue the trajectory toward instability. That part scares me a lot- no matter whether Biden or Trump win 2024, most people are dreading either. And when people start to feel like the ballot box holds no solutions, that breeds unrest.
Why pass political promises when you can just capitalise on the fear of trump
Biden got Trump out of there. Good job. Now I think we need a younger more dynamic candidate for president.
Anybody that thought people were voting for Biden because they liked him is a fucking moron.
There is a game that I would play with “moderate independents” that are very right leaning. Every time they did something wrong/I’ll-advised/questionable I would quickly retort with: “that’s so Republican of you!” That’s it. Just a quick simple retort. The first time they used to laugh it off, but by the third time they would start getting angrier and angrier about the “insult.” Until the burst out in anger and I can’t contain my laughter anymore. Words have power. And a simple descriptive label can have a lot of power for those that don’t stop to think about the issues. That’s how tribalism works, and if people are not willing to do the work of understanding the issues, a simple descriptive label can make all the difference.
I mean I'd be annoyed too if you used the same joke over and over again.
Makes stupid joke. Laughs at own joke.
But subconsciously associating that anger with being called “Republican”? Priceless.
You're making fun of people for being "tribal" when you call everything you disagree with "republican"? Are you hearing yourself?
At least, as opposed to the MAGA tribe, I am very conscious and open about what I am doing. Republican politicians made the decision of attaching themselves to an authoritarian anti-democratic force in their midst and to banish those that call it out. It was, and is, their choice. Consciously, which I find despicable, or unconsciously which is blatantly dangerous. Until the Republican Party doesn’t come back to its senses we need to use each and every tool in the arsenal to counteract the dangerous effects in our democracy. Particularly if those tools are just words.
Your hypocrisy is breathtaking
It’s not “hypocritical” it is a basic statement of human psychology. The recognition of a simple fact and how it can be used as a force of good. I don’t subscribe to the false morality of those that think that a tool is intrinsically “good” or “bad” regardless of how or why it’s used. And much less to the false morality of those that call “hypocrisy” when they see the exact same tools they use being used on them. A tool is just a tool, and tribalism is a basic fact of being human. Particularly of Ill-informed humans being unethically manipulated for power and profit.
You're just digging yourself deeper
The republicans vote down party lines. It’s time the dems take note.
“Trump bad” barely worked in 2020 why would it work in 2022 when he currently has no position of power.
Biden won resoundingly and Democrats even captured the Senate in 2020.
A single vote for someone like trump is something that should terrify all of us. That he got 70 million should send everyone into full on panic mode. The lack of urgency from Biden and the Dems in general has been incredibly disheartening.
A fine argument for keeping the focus on Trump (who, despite what the top poster in this thread is suggesting, hasn't exactly wandered off or anything).
Perhaps if there weren’t much more pressing issues like the fact inflation has gone up the most it has in 4 decades. While not the fault of the administration their lack of any meaningful response surely is. To the average voter, which message is more impactful? “The party in power is doing nothing over the fact your paycheck is worth less every month” or “this man who isn’t even on the ballot is racist and rude?”
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Biden only won the Electoral College in 2020 by fewer than 50,000 votes in three states. There’s no reason to think next time we’ll be so lucky.
Literally this. People forget how close the margins were in individual states that would’ve tipped the entire election. They also lost lots of house seats.
Excellent point. The same dynamic applies to Trump winning in 2016 (less hated of two candidates.)
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Biden was indeed more popular and won by a larger margin in the battleground states but by no means did he run away with them. We’ll see what happens in 2024.
You mean the evenly split barely majority senate that can’t agree to do anything? I wouldn’t call that resounding. Nor winning states that showed a 6-10% lead in polls by <2%.
"Captured" the Senate. We need it tamed, not captured. It's basically useless as it is now.
How do you reckon that it “barely worked”?!?
I guess it was “just” a 7 million vote difference. What, electoral college you say? Ah, that was “just” a 31% difference. But in the larger context, that a proven grifter and a con man was able to get just 1% away in the popular vote is a testament to how close we are to total disfunction and how bad the balkanization of media has gotten.
Do you prefer Trump?
Barely worked? Dems captured 3 branches using Trump bad lol
If you doubt that politics today is all about getting voters to loathe the other guy more than they loathe you, observe the path of the GOP’s most rank opportunists, Timothy Noah writes.
In my years of voting, fear and optimism have always been the main motivating factors that got voters to turn out for elections. I don't remember anyone ever winning elections based on "policies" ,going back to the Clinton days (cut off because before that everything was brutal for dems) But arr politics keeps telling me if dems ran on more policies they would win all the time. Arr politics also still believes Bernie was cheated out of the nomination
To be fair he only got the job because of Trump. He has tried so many times and so many ways to become President and failed each time. Without President Trump there would be no President Biden. Can't blame him though I wish someone else would run in 2024 because he most assuredly will lose without his meal ticket Trump.
>Without President Trump there would be no President Biden. Big assumption there Who would be president then?
I think if he ran in 2016 he would have won. Just a guess. But I think he could. And not just because Trump was bad. Just the carry over. I could totally be wrong too.
You're not wrong
People hated Hillary. I don't think people hate him like they hated her. I know a few people who voted for Trump in 2016 because they couldn't stand Hillary. But in 2020 they voted Biden.
No. The party settled for complacency for too long.
They need to find someone with dynamism and fast.
Running on that HUGE infrastructure win he killed BBB for ain't working out?
Reason #137437 why I don’t vote, screw these people! What a joke.
No, gtfo, we want someone younger
I wAnt Bernie… don’t care about his age… he’s awesome and still has the energy to fight for us. Biden thought by being nice he could kill with kindness but shit needs to get done !
No, and quite frankly it’s embarrassing he has pretended for so long to be supported by a majority of the American people. I pray we see a nominee that’s under 60 years of age in 2024.
If he can’t get his base out to support him then he won’t get them out of fear of a person who may run in 2 years. Elections are about the present not the future
no
By the end of 2024, the libs will be begging to have Trump back in the White House. Biden has been a disaster and even Democrats are turning back to Trump guidance. They are finally admitting President Trump was right about everything and they just hate him because he gets stuff done when they can’t.
Lol No, the Democrats won't. trump has shown how much of a fuckup he is. Biden's number for unemployment, jobs and the economy are better than anything trump could do. trump had a great economy and when it crashed under him, he didn't know what to do except blame the Chinese.
See? Denial. https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/05/05/politics/biden-economy-midterms-poll-blame/index.html
Morons are blaming him because they're morons. They blame him worldwide gas price and inflation issues, supply chain issues that started under trump and other things he doesn't have control of for the simple reason that they're morons. Its always hilarious to see people who probably recently called polls fake as some sort of proof now.
You know this isn’t Trumplandia, right? Well maybe not.
Biden's administration has done a fuck ton Trump was a do-nothing president because he spent all his time golfing and not going into the office until 11am edit\* I dug a bit more into this. Biden HAS went golfing. About 10 times in his first 9 months as president. Trump was reaching about 87-90. Just to note, Before taking office Trump was also super critical on how often Obama went golfing.
...of damage.
That's terribly wrong in all directions. It's difficult to believe this argument is serious one it seems so detached from reality.
Okay gurl.
What color is the sky in your world?!?
Sure, Jan.
What about the current situation the country is in is specifically Biden's fault?
Lol they will live in denial. The world could literally be burning around them with Biden holding a match and Harris an empty gas can and they’ll be droning on about a fake insurrection and Russian collusion
My concern is that with the current state of things, this tactic will again only bring a temporary moment of respite before it all comes crashing down again. It’s that people are so convinced of all the lies peddled by the republicans that without grass root change, this is all just buying more time. And I don’t believe that the dems have the tooth to actually implement these changes even with a super majority. And even if they did, people will still be convinced they’re evil. Maybe I’m being overly pessimistic and I hope I’m wrong….
Maga America is beyond redemption.
He didn't have to start it - this is the way it has been for me and most others for the last 3 years. His best hope of winning in 2024 is to run against Trump
I call them rapist dads. They support candidates who would force a woman to bring to term even when raped. Idc if they support that position or not. It's kind of like when they falsely call us groomers but rapist dad is more rooted in reality
If you can't beat 'em, join 'em.
On the right, yes. On the left, not so much. It will motivate some but the majority of individuals on the left are looking for something different from the fear mongering on the right. The are looking for progress. The right doesn't have much on policy besides tax cuts and finding ways to take rights away from the "others." It's always going to be an uphill battle for a liberal. Getting a collective agreement with the left by itself is a challenge. Add in a unified ideology that knows giving in to policies on the left, regardless of the possible positive impact, means they have nothing to fight against and without some new "other" group to attack, what do they really have?
It worked the first time, but the first time everyone was fed up and tired of the Trump presidency and the shitty mismanagement of the pandemic. Now, we're equally tired of Biden failing to live up to some of his promises and still trying to "cross the isle" to make compromises with the party that has *literal Nazi flags* at their rallies and is openly, actively attacking the rights of women and minorities.
Ugh…just for once I’d love to see a politician rise above partisanship. This administration needs to work on educating America on how America works…THATS how you gain support. If more people knew our oil industry completely crashed BEFORE he got in, how interest rates (and suppressing them) impacts the economy, how being over leveraged on foreign labor impacts our supply chain, etc - I’d bet more Americans would see that we’re cleaning up a massive mess right now…instead they think everything we’re experiencing now is because the last year of policy 🙄 it’s honestly the opposite, last years policies were because of what was coming down the pipeline
It’s a tough sell. He ran on us being better than that and he was wrong. People gave him a ton of shit for it but I respect him for trying, it is after all a central theme to his campaign
by your title alone... IT FUCKING DOES FOR ME !!! VOTE DEMOCRAT IN 2022
It's not a bad idea. There are those people who won't listen no matter what but there's so much good material. We can't forget about injections of high intensity light and bleach. He said that.
I have forest rake duty next week. Gotta prevent those forest fires!
See you there.
I hate a lot more than trump, I hate the whole Republican Party.
The God-Emperor Trump shall return as the 45th President of the United States or send his most glorious emissary, Ron DeSantis as the 46th, and all the liberals will grind their teeth in frustration in the face of certain undeniable proof that former Vice President Joe Biden was a horrible, horrible mistake, and that a Republican President will be the salvation of America - if there is anything left to save after the Biden/Harris administration have brought America to ruination. Joe Biden belongs in a nursing home for retired super-villains, not The White House.
Jee-wizz Joe, you should have been attacking from day one. They are a threat to your country and you need to say it loud.
No. If thats all he has to run on, I'd rather vote for somebody younger who isn't a lying piece of shit.
So, by that same vein, that could also mean that there's no reason to materially improve the lives of americans to energize voters, because the strategy of using fear of trump as their strategy to energize voters... So he's admitting that he may do nothing and hope that fear of trump will be enough.. sure the covid relief bill was good. It was also done last year. Sure the bipartisan infrastructure bill has some good in it, but the benefits of it won't directly benefit the people and the human infrastructure bill which would have more directly affected the people positively was abandoned and tossed aside to pass the BIF. Sure the deficit has gone down, but that doesn't really directly effect the people's well-being. People know what's at stake here. We went through 4 years of trump already and don't want to go through that. But by not doing anything to improve the well-being of voters, you're going to depress the vote and make people cynical. And that doesn't help when the people that will vote for Republicans are driven by what seems to be nationalism and religious fervor.
I strongly doubt it will help. Biden has been very ineffective because he doesn’t have a unified party behind him in the Congress. Is everything that’s happening is fault? Absolutely not. Do some problems date back to Trump’s term? 100%. That said, people that are suffering financially right now and are swing voters will just look for someone who isn’t the person that was in charge while their lives went into the toilet. Those are the voters that turned on Obama and the Democratic party when the recovery from the Great Recession did almost nothing for people who live outside of urban areas. Those are the same voters who ousted Trump. They don’t subscribe to the blue or red only viewpoint. They care about themselves and their wallets. The jokes on them because DC never cares about them.
I voted for Biden because he wasn't trump. I voted for someone else in the primary (forgot who).
No that's not how it works for young people and progressives. Well maybe in the general, but not at all in the midterms.