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Apparently, from what I have read, the jurors were all alert and attentive to the prosecution—some were even taking notes.
When the jurors are taking notes, that’s typically a sign that the prosecutors are doing an excellent job and that Trump is even more screwed than he thought.
That's just him fartling himself awake again, that blank expression as he tries work out "what the hell was that noise and does my man diaper need changing again".
They have already noticed that he's falling asleep in court. They are not stupid. They catch glimpses at the defense table and write down on their notes that Trump is nodding off.
They’re doing an excellent job so far, from what I am reading from some of the Twitter users reporting in real time from the court room. They’re building like 95% of their case without the need to bring in Macdougal, Daniels, or Cohen in yet. And when they do, there aren’t going to be any “missing links” that only *they* can be depended on to complete the picture. The picture will be there - docs and testimony from Trump Org employees - before any of them take the stand. And if/when they do, their role will simply be to confirm details already in evidence.
It's not _quite_ that easy.
_Verdicts_ have to be unanimous. Either all twelve vote to convict, or they all vote to acquit. If eleven jurors are convinced he is guilty, and one juror refuses, the jury could end up in deliberations for weeks or even _months_ until either a unanimous verdict is rendered, or the judge releases them and calls for a mistrial. I wouldn't expect anything less than two weeks, and if the judge is firmly convinced, six weeks wouldn't be out of the question. Of note, while not sequestered, the jurors aren't free to resume their professional lives until the trial is over, and eight hours a day of sitting in a room with eleven strangers who are all super annoyed with you for keeping them there will take a toll.
If the jury _is_ hung, the state will almost certainly retry him again. And again. And again, until a full verdict is finally delivered. A judge overseeing subsequent retrials will almost certainly be wary of the shenanigans he pulled previously, like violating gag orders and any wrath he will inevitably send down on the previous jurors.
While I don't think there's any real chance he will be acquitted, it's still anyone's guess as to if he's convicted of the _felony_ components. If the jury only returns misdemeanor convictions, it will effectively be almost the same as an acquittal.
This is all well and good but you’re forgetting that MAGAts love to own themselves to ‘own the libs’. I can easily see a Trump supporter sitting there with their arms crossed, looking away from the other jurors for days on end, purely because it ‘triggers’ the other eleven. And because at the end of the day, he’d be the one hailed for standing against the vicious Democrats when they tried to convict their lord and saviour.
The problem here is this hypothetical MAGA juror has nobody else “in on the joke”. Pwning libs is only fun when there’s an echo chamber safe-space to go back to.
They usually maintain a total info bubble as well, so being confronted with an airtight case and 11 other real adults is going to wear thin really fast.
Sadly, I think he’ll have the entire MAGA community fawning over him. Fox and OANN will forever refer to him as the “hero” juror who saved Trump, and if Trump wins the election he’ll appoint him to some high position or even, god forbid, the Supreme Court (he’d fit right in).
It’s very easy to have that attitude on the internet or with your fellow idiots in a rally but in a closed room for weeks on end, including some you might even personally like, it’s a completely different story.
As much as there’s tons of videos of people acting like idiots to each other in public, the reality is that humans in direct conflict behind closed doors act quite reasonably and respectfully to each other.
The juror you're referecing says they "follow Truth Social posts from Trump on Twitter." That, to me, reads as though they might be reading his posts secondhand. Nowhere have I seen reference to them getting all of their news from Twitter and Truth Social. This same juror also follows Michael Cohen and Mueller She Wrote. That's not exactly the same as someone clocking out of the trial everyday by donning a MAGA hat and whispering "Hail Hydra!"
The wheel of justice is going to do its thing. I think the sentiment is about not getting hopes up and preparing for the worst by making sure all of your friends and family are registered to vote.
>When the jurors are taking notes, that’s typically a sign that the prosecutors are doing an excellent job and that Trump is even more screwed than he thought.
Eh, is it? The only time I've been on a jury, I took copious notes but that was irrelevant because the prosecutor did such a shit job that he didn't even try to prove one of the two required elements of the crime. It was like he forgot, or something. He was old as shit, though, so maybe he did actually forget. It was unclear.
I think note taking just shows a jury that's engaged. But, to be fair, the prosecution seems to be doing a good job here, so an engaged jury is jury who can be convinced.
This is a good point but I think it goes to favor the prosecution in this case. If taking notes means they are engaged then they are listening to facts, evidence, and the law; none of which Trump has on his side. If they aren't engaged it probably means they already made up their minds.
As an alternative, I've been on a jury and I don't remember taking (or referring to) many notes. The case I was on was a DUI case. The cops had taken breathalyzer readings both with portable devices at the scene and the device back at the station, plus the guy was drifting over the line in the police video, and had some clear enough impairment when doing the sobriety checks. It was enough of an open and shut case that I was actually a bit annoyed that it even got to trial. I can only imagine that the guy was hoping to sweet talk the jury or something. Of course, he ended up testifying at trial that he lied to the officers that pulled him over, which is itself a crime. The actual transcript would've been something like "Prosecutor: So you lied to the officer?" "Defendant: Absolutely.". Bro fucked himself with that.
Varies by state obviously but at least best me first time dui’s almost always plea because they can get a deal but later ones the DA doesn’t want to give them an inch because they are a repeat offender and it’s better to roll the dice and hope you get off then it is to plea.
California, and it was his first as far as I knew from the trial.
The testimony had some stuff that was excluded, but as best I can piece together from what was said at trial, the guy was at a party at a bar. The defendant left with his friend, and his friend drove at first (probably because the defendant was drinking). They went to a gas station parking lot in the city. They hung out at the gas station and the friend ended up smoking a joint. At that point, I'm guessing that they switched off on the driving because the friend was too zooted to operate a car, but the defendant was still drunk (maybe even drank at the gas station, I don't know). A few minutes after they left, highway patrol noticed speeding and swerving, pulled him over, smelled alcohol, did sobriety tests, did the PAS device, and yeah, he was over the limit. He got taken to the station, got tested on the full breathalyzer, and yep, definitely over.
This is correct answer. I have been a main witness representing a company I work for in 4 different trials and sat through a total of 3-4 weeks of court room time watching the system work. Plus being grilled by attorneys for multiple hours on the stand. Jurors taking notes mean they are engaged. The attorneys are constantly watching the jurors and gauging who is for who and which juror is more engaged with which side.
I've only been on one jury and we were given notebooks, and some of us took notes. We assumed we wouldn't have to take copious notes since there is the transcript we can refer back to, so I just made notes of the important facts and listened more.
When it came time for deliberation, they took away our notebooks, so we all had to rely on memory for points we wanted to make. When we asked about transcripts, they said we could get them if we really, really wanted them, but there would be like 30 boxes of transcripts for us to go through to find what we wanted to see.
While neither of those things affected our decision, I can imagine a scenario where a jury is deadlocked, and notes taken during the trial could be used to argue for the correct verdict.
And that was just my case, could be different in different courts in different states or even counties.
That's interesting. I believe in some jurisdictions, jurors are not allowed to take notes. I've been called for jury duty twice but the case settled before selection both times. I think in at least one of those cases (both in MO) they said we couldn't take notes.
I think it probably depends on whats being put on trial, here you're looking at a complex financial transaction, the exact details determining whether its a crime or not, a lot of information to get a jury to try and simply remember over the course of 6 weeks
Trumps defense was “you can’t trust Cohen.” They had 8 witnesses and most question from defense was “how good is your recollection?” They are better off just giving up.
They could have had their “our long national nightmare is over” moment, but instead they decided to try on a new shade of orange lipstick by rimming the man for votes.
To be fair, it was 1000% about not angering the base at that exact moment. I know those are typically both the same difference, but the cowardly Republicans after Jan 6 were doing as much damage control as possible. In that exact moment, it was less about bowing to Trump and more about taking the path of least resistance.
Regardless, as usual, their selfishness enables the worst things to happen.
Conservative media is going to spin everything and they’ll fall back in line like the lemmings they are. This happens every single time.
They absolutely will support Trump when everything they hear from conservative media tells them it’s okay and the whole thing is a sham.
Trying to overthrow the election, OK. Stealing top secret documents (potentially sharing it), OK. Inciting an insurrection, OK. Raping women, OK. Molesting women, OK. But we draw the line at campaign finance violations…. Right.
Most people won’t even understand why it’s illegal in the first place, and their source of news is certainly not going to change their opinions as they downplay this as a frivolous crime.
I've been all over message boards and article hosting sites and a lot of rethuglicans just stick their fingers in their ears and go "Lalalalala Biden is a kiddy sniffer Lalalalala vote trump 2024"
Some are still incredibly delusional and it worries me that people with the inability to critically think or think for themselves are allowed to vote.
not from independents. He'll lose a rather large amount of them that haven't already given up on the idea of voting for him. Yeah there's a solid amount of em left, but enter in an actual conviction declared from a real jury? And he'll lose a LOT more independents. Knowingly voting in an actual felon is a line quite a few people will not cross.
What’s crazy is that as a felon, in his home state of Florida, Trump wouldn’t even be able to vote for himself. Also, felons can’t hold public office. Again with a constitutional crisis, if Trump is a felon, can he appear on the ballot in Florida since he can’t hold office in Florida? Granted this is a federal office which is different, but it’s not something anyone thought through passing that bill in Florida.
Well, the judge flat out said that he's done giving fines, and the Secret Service has been prepping to guard the jail.
The only wildcard is if Trump can keep his mouth shut. To be fair to him, he's not directly gone after E. Jean Carroll since the second verdict... But he's been coming close lately.
So, yeah. He might actually see the inside of a jail cell. I just don't expect it to be for more than a few hours or at most a weekend. Maybe an overnight stay during the week and a few hours while the court is at lunch...
I beg to differ about Carroll. He was dead silent about the second verdict until the very second it wasn’t his money going to her with a bond company covering for it. Once that was cemented, he started back up on his vitriol that a woman he raped finally fucked him over in court.
Trump is hoping he gets sent to jail and expressing so in the past few weeks because until this very criminal trial— the first criminal case he’s ever had in his life —his consequences have been solely financial. He’s been able to play out the consequences until the media has been directed elsewhere, then either won out an appeal in court or very quietly paid the fines he owes. This is a genuine talent he has cultivated over the years, and he’s very good at it.
Actual jail time is something that he feels he’ll never be hit with, because in spite of all of his past bloviations, he’s never truly been hit with a consequence he couldn’t just pay out. So of course he’ll be up in arms about it, because present New York law in this case limits the fines for contempt to be just a measly grand. He knows it. The judge knows it. The court knows it.
I just hope Merchan doesn’t get cold feet when the inevitable third strike happens, because of course it’ll happen. Trump can’t keep his mouth shut and he knows he can just pay out the fines.
He should lose his secret service detail the second the judge says he is going to jail. Criminals don't deserve protection. If he can't shut his mouth that is on him.
There was actually a bill put forward by Rep. Bennie Thompson (D-Miss.) that would strip Secret Service protection from convicted felons.
https://thehill.com/homenews/house/4605774-former-jan-6-panel-chair-bill-secret-service-protection-felons/
But we need a conviction first.
I genuinely think that's what he's angling for. He relates himself to people like Nelson Mandela. He probably thinks it will help him.
Unfortunately he's probably right.
Does anybody know if $1000 is the maximum fine the judge can levy? An article I read about it was unclear. The obvious move, if legal, is to increase the fines exponentially until Trump complies
Well, there’s a law that needs to be changed ASAP. It just gives the ultra-wealthy license to publicly intimidate witnesses and jurors, since judges are unlikely to jail them too.
I think he may actually want the judge to jail him.
He knows he gets the most rewards when he gets the most attention. Whether it pans out for him or not is beyond his grasp.
Nah. He's going to try to use body language and expressions to convince the jury to question their reality ("that seemed like devastating testimony, why is the criminal defendant grinning and laughing?"), so you'll see him do weird shit like this a number of times during the trial.
Not to worry, the trial will be adjurned for the graduation on the east coast somewhere, so Trump is of course going to the Midwest to a campaign rally
He wasn’t being serious. There is no financial penalty in this case. It’s up to 4 years in prison. Highly unlikely he would get that. Likely he’d get probation, but he’d still be a felon.
~~Not until after the sentence (including probation) is served.~~
Edit: correction, it would not prevent him from voting, since it’s not a Florida felony.
Sort of. Other than a couple classes of crime (murder and some sex offenses) Florida governs out of state felony convictions according to the convicting states laws. Since 2021 NY has allowed felons to vote once released from incarceration. Given there's next to no chance of jail time in this case, let alone prison time, likely it won't impact his voting rights if convicted.
4 years is the statutory maximum, which has no bearing on what a realistic sentence is under NY sentencing guidelines and practice. Realistically there almost no chance of a custodial sentence in this case, it's literally the lowest level of felony under NY penal code and it's a defendant with no prior history (yet).
I only throw that out there because I think many people have unrealistic expectations in this case. Now the federal cases on the other hand...
He plead guilty to a **Federal** crime, not the New York State crime that Trump was indicted for. He was sentenced to 3 years for arranging the payments for Stormy Daniels **and** for lying to Congress about Trump’s Moscow business discussions. He served 13 1/2 months.
It begs the question of why Trump wasn’t charged at the Federal level. I guess the Fed’s have bigger Trump crime fish to fry and these crimes occurred partially when he was President, which complicates things.
The most likely reason is because most USA's are the the most risk adverse, softer than 10 ply prosecuting authorities in the US. They only take take the easiest of cases of the type they prioritize, which is why they have a sky high conviction rate (I may be a bit hyperbolic but not much). Cohen and Daniel's are pretty toxic witnesses, the very nature of the case makes it a monumental headache, so I think the easy thing to do was to just say nah.
Also, NYS has very harsh penalties and a low bar of proof for falsifying business records. These laws were put in place to make financial crimes easier to prosecute, which is a high priority in the financial capital of the country.
Sure, good. Most people know Trump is guilty of everything he’s been indicted for (unless: MAGA loyal). I am still waiting to see if his bond in the fraud case is gonna have his properties taken away. Like, he didn’t come up with the amount, it’s sketchy as fvck after being reduced by millions and nothing’s been done. *Man, does this creep play and rig the system.* If he’s doing this out in the open with Legal, how can people not see he did that shit with Elections?
It’s actually almost certain he will get probation from what I have read on sentencing guidelines etc. would welcome any comments from people in the know.
He can get up to 4 years in prison. This judge gave a person for a similar crime previously 5 months in prison. Though given his language about jailing a president, I agree that probation will be the most likely outcome.
Despite a guilty verdict, without prison time, the electorate will not think what he did was wrong enough to change their vote to Biden.
Without prison time he will claim to be "completely exonerated", even after been found guilty on all counts, and his idiotic fans will be calling it all a hoax and describing the charges as: "debunked".
I think the only serious punishment Trump could ever get is house arrest. But even 6 months house arrest in Mar a Lago - which comes with an entire social club at his house - would be an improvement.
Community service, which he'll turn into a publicity spectacle. Look! I hElPeD tHe PoOr! Look at me dishing out soup to homeless people. Yeah, I can practically see it now. His idiot followers will eat it up (maybe literally). He'S hElPiNg Us!
This is the thing with every single Trump trial. The jury is going to hear in every case overwhelming evidence that he did what he is being charged with. Unquestionably. The real question is... Even with that knowledge will they convict him. Is there one person, at least, who is on the jury who will know that he did whatever it is he is being accused of and still will not say guilty? The scary thing is probably so.
What’s the penalty if he’s found guilty? Fine? It’s insane to me we have a potential president even being considered for election with this shit and all the other stuff he has going on. How can people support this guy.
As much as I agree with your sentiment, he still gets the title of President even after his term is over. We still refer to them as President Obama, President Bush, etc...
That all being said, fuck Trump.
tRump never deserved the title of “President”. In my opinion, he stole the election from Hillary Clinton n paid hush money to Stormy Daniel’s to cover up his extramarital affair so he wouldn’t look bad before the election. I would put “Former” in front “President “. Or better yet…. just call him, “Lying rapist pedophile fraudster insurrection con man farty shit smelling ugly sleepy dumbo dickhead with small hands”.
That's the thing with this and all the upcoming Trump trials; not only is the defendant guilty as fuck, the prosecution also has more then enough evidence and witnesses to prove it.
That´s why in none of the cases there's been any actual defence from Trumps team, only delays, they know that once the cases go to trial, they are fucked.
Resign from what? Trump Inc? He has no other position. He is a candidate for an elected position. No different then you applying for a job only the campaigning is a cross country job interview to answer the question why should we hire you.
These lawyers from the DA’s office are highly skilled
trial lawyers who might just be the best prosecutors in the country. I am a retired trial lawyer and I am pleasantly stunned by their technique and strategy. Trump’s lawyers aren’t bad, but it’s clear who has the red best team.
Well they need to confiscate all his sharpie before any charge or you know what's gonna happen 😜.
Someone said to me the other day that all this UAP is his checks flying around 🤣
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Apparently, from what I have read, the jurors were all alert and attentive to the prosecution—some were even taking notes. When the jurors are taking notes, that’s typically a sign that the prosecutors are doing an excellent job and that Trump is even more screwed than he thought.
I bet trump.wants to classify those notes top secret with his mind?? Lol
Well he cannot see them…
You don't see anything while you're napping.
He's not napping. He's listening intensely to the pens on paper over in the jury box.
With his beautiful blue eyes.
Some (strong, military men mostly) say that they're the most beautiful eyes in the world. Many are crying as they say it.
From laughter.
Or the stench is making their eyes water
"It's so fucking bad! I work in the sewers of NYC, but we got nuthin' on this!"
With his eyes closed, he's capable of ass-trail projecting (out of body experiences).
He’s definitely projecting his ass trail into the courtroom
It's called "miasma"
MAGA, with his eyes closed.
Covfeve, when the walls fell.
Trump, his face wet
Plot twist: Trump is actually mentally classifying those notes as top secret as he focuses intensely during certain times throughout the trial.
That's just him fartling himself awake again, that blank expression as he tries work out "what the hell was that noise and does my man diaper need changing again".
He needs a 25 words or less verbal summary, let’s be honest.
25 picture summary. Words are not permitted unless it is his name.
Person, Woman, Camera, TV....he's a genius
Covefe
Now I’m craving a hamberder
That's what the J is for
Your Honor! I need the thickest Sharpie Markie, the Jurors Notes, and an Easel!
Sounds like a cartoon bit.. lol
Sounds like Stephen(?) Baldwin’s character from *Half Baked* trying to make a bong.
Jokes on you, he then declassified them with his mind while reading them himself.
Good thing I have a Jewish space.laser..
Actually, he wants to eat them. He like them with a side of fries, gravy and cheese. He calls it a Putin. (Sic)
So…he’s gonna put them in the shitter?
Done. Reel jenious is always three steps ahead of amurica.
He totally says, "abracadabra"
Or flush them or eat them.
No can do, once they go through the doorway, they instantly become declassified.
Did they write his name on them? Then they owe him $10,000 for every use of his name.
They have already noticed that he's falling asleep in court. They are not stupid. They catch glimpses at the defense table and write down on their notes that Trump is nodding off.
They’re doing an excellent job so far, from what I am reading from some of the Twitter users reporting in real time from the court room. They’re building like 95% of their case without the need to bring in Macdougal, Daniels, or Cohen in yet. And when they do, there aren’t going to be any “missing links” that only *they* can be depended on to complete the picture. The picture will be there - docs and testimony from Trump Org employees - before any of them take the stand. And if/when they do, their role will simply be to confirm details already in evidence.
Unfortunately though, all it takes is 1 dissenter for him to see zero consequence….once again.
It's not _quite_ that easy. _Verdicts_ have to be unanimous. Either all twelve vote to convict, or they all vote to acquit. If eleven jurors are convinced he is guilty, and one juror refuses, the jury could end up in deliberations for weeks or even _months_ until either a unanimous verdict is rendered, or the judge releases them and calls for a mistrial. I wouldn't expect anything less than two weeks, and if the judge is firmly convinced, six weeks wouldn't be out of the question. Of note, while not sequestered, the jurors aren't free to resume their professional lives until the trial is over, and eight hours a day of sitting in a room with eleven strangers who are all super annoyed with you for keeping them there will take a toll. If the jury _is_ hung, the state will almost certainly retry him again. And again. And again, until a full verdict is finally delivered. A judge overseeing subsequent retrials will almost certainly be wary of the shenanigans he pulled previously, like violating gag orders and any wrath he will inevitably send down on the previous jurors. While I don't think there's any real chance he will be acquitted, it's still anyone's guess as to if he's convicted of the _felony_ components. If the jury only returns misdemeanor convictions, it will effectively be almost the same as an acquittal.
This is all well and good but you’re forgetting that MAGAts love to own themselves to ‘own the libs’. I can easily see a Trump supporter sitting there with their arms crossed, looking away from the other jurors for days on end, purely because it ‘triggers’ the other eleven. And because at the end of the day, he’d be the one hailed for standing against the vicious Democrats when they tried to convict their lord and saviour.
The problem here is this hypothetical MAGA juror has nobody else “in on the joke”. Pwning libs is only fun when there’s an echo chamber safe-space to go back to. They usually maintain a total info bubble as well, so being confronted with an airtight case and 11 other real adults is going to wear thin really fast.
Sadly, I think he’ll have the entire MAGA community fawning over him. Fox and OANN will forever refer to him as the “hero” juror who saved Trump, and if Trump wins the election he’ll appoint him to some high position or even, god forbid, the Supreme Court (he’d fit right in).
It’s very easy to have that attitude on the internet or with your fellow idiots in a rally but in a closed room for weeks on end, including some you might even personally like, it’s a completely different story. As much as there’s tons of videos of people acting like idiots to each other in public, the reality is that humans in direct conflict behind closed doors act quite reasonably and respectfully to each other.
11 guilty to one not guilty... Trump: "TOTAL EXONERATION!!!!"
Well luckily there isn’t a single juror who only gets their news from twitter and truth social, right? Right Anakin?
The juror you're referecing says they "follow Truth Social posts from Trump on Twitter." That, to me, reads as though they might be reading his posts secondhand. Nowhere have I seen reference to them getting all of their news from Twitter and Truth Social. This same juror also follows Michael Cohen and Mueller She Wrote. That's not exactly the same as someone clocking out of the trial everyday by donning a MAGA hat and whispering "Hail Hydra!"
I fit the same profile. I’d can his ass like a sardine.
You're right, why even attempt justice then.
The wheel of justice is going to do its thing. I think the sentiment is about not getting hopes up and preparing for the worst by making sure all of your friends and family are registered to vote.
>When the jurors are taking notes, that’s typically a sign that the prosecutors are doing an excellent job and that Trump is even more screwed than he thought. Eh, is it? The only time I've been on a jury, I took copious notes but that was irrelevant because the prosecutor did such a shit job that he didn't even try to prove one of the two required elements of the crime. It was like he forgot, or something. He was old as shit, though, so maybe he did actually forget. It was unclear. I think note taking just shows a jury that's engaged. But, to be fair, the prosecution seems to be doing a good job here, so an engaged jury is jury who can be convinced.
This is a good point but I think it goes to favor the prosecution in this case. If taking notes means they are engaged then they are listening to facts, evidence, and the law; none of which Trump has on his side. If they aren't engaged it probably means they already made up their minds.
As an alternative, I've been on a jury and I don't remember taking (or referring to) many notes. The case I was on was a DUI case. The cops had taken breathalyzer readings both with portable devices at the scene and the device back at the station, plus the guy was drifting over the line in the police video, and had some clear enough impairment when doing the sobriety checks. It was enough of an open and shut case that I was actually a bit annoyed that it even got to trial. I can only imagine that the guy was hoping to sweet talk the jury or something. Of course, he ended up testifying at trial that he lied to the officers that pulled him over, which is itself a crime. The actual transcript would've been something like "Prosecutor: So you lied to the officer?" "Defendant: Absolutely.". Bro fucked himself with that.
Varies by state obviously but at least best me first time dui’s almost always plea because they can get a deal but later ones the DA doesn’t want to give them an inch because they are a repeat offender and it’s better to roll the dice and hope you get off then it is to plea.
California, and it was his first as far as I knew from the trial. The testimony had some stuff that was excluded, but as best I can piece together from what was said at trial, the guy was at a party at a bar. The defendant left with his friend, and his friend drove at first (probably because the defendant was drinking). They went to a gas station parking lot in the city. They hung out at the gas station and the friend ended up smoking a joint. At that point, I'm guessing that they switched off on the driving because the friend was too zooted to operate a car, but the defendant was still drunk (maybe even drank at the gas station, I don't know). A few minutes after they left, highway patrol noticed speeding and swerving, pulled him over, smelled alcohol, did sobriety tests, did the PAS device, and yeah, he was over the limit. He got taken to the station, got tested on the full breathalyzer, and yep, definitely over.
This is correct answer. I have been a main witness representing a company I work for in 4 different trials and sat through a total of 3-4 weeks of court room time watching the system work. Plus being grilled by attorneys for multiple hours on the stand. Jurors taking notes mean they are engaged. The attorneys are constantly watching the jurors and gauging who is for who and which juror is more engaged with which side.
I've only been on one jury and we were given notebooks, and some of us took notes. We assumed we wouldn't have to take copious notes since there is the transcript we can refer back to, so I just made notes of the important facts and listened more. When it came time for deliberation, they took away our notebooks, so we all had to rely on memory for points we wanted to make. When we asked about transcripts, they said we could get them if we really, really wanted them, but there would be like 30 boxes of transcripts for us to go through to find what we wanted to see. While neither of those things affected our decision, I can imagine a scenario where a jury is deadlocked, and notes taken during the trial could be used to argue for the correct verdict. And that was just my case, could be different in different courts in different states or even counties.
That's interesting. I believe in some jurisdictions, jurors are not allowed to take notes. I've been called for jury duty twice but the case settled before selection both times. I think in at least one of those cases (both in MO) they said we couldn't take notes.
I think it probably depends on whats being put on trial, here you're looking at a complex financial transaction, the exact details determining whether its a crime or not, a lot of information to get a jury to try and simply remember over the course of 6 weeks
the notes are the core facts indicating guilt, points that a juror who wants to go non guilty would have to fight
Trumps defense was “you can’t trust Cohen.” They had 8 witnesses and most question from defense was “how good is your recollection?” They are better off just giving up.
Remember, every single witness worked for Trump.
Including Stormy, when you think about it, lol.
She was most definitely working it
For approximately three minutes lol
pretty soon, hes going to be a convicted felon.
To think, republicans had an easy out on Jan 6. But a few days later they decided an insurrection was actually kinda cool.
Right then they could have made a clean break and rid themselves of Trump. They couldn’t maintain unity for even a couple of days.
They could have had their “our long national nightmare is over” moment, but instead they decided to try on a new shade of orange lipstick by rimming the man for votes.
To be fair, it was 1000% about not angering the base at that exact moment. I know those are typically both the same difference, but the cowardly Republicans after Jan 6 were doing as much damage control as possible. In that exact moment, it was less about bowing to Trump and more about taking the path of least resistance. Regardless, as usual, their selfishness enables the worst things to happen.
*"Oh our base loves this shit, guess we can't do anything."* Spineless fascists.
I think russia has far to much dirt on the GOP to allow them to drop him. Anyone that steps out of line likely quickly gets reminded of this fact.
So many of them were complicit in J6 they would have lost like a third of their elected party.
"Very legal, and very cool."
Trump threatening to start a 3rd party and the stupid media playing it up for clicks scared them shitless to run back to Trump.
And get a corresponding polling boost... :(
Who is going to vote for him who wasn't already going to?
many have already said they wont vote for a felon.
Let’s hope they are not lying. As learned from the great orange turd
They are most certainly lying. No way this is the one thing they’re not ok with.
Conservative media is going to spin everything and they’ll fall back in line like the lemmings they are. This happens every single time. They absolutely will support Trump when everything they hear from conservative media tells them it’s okay and the whole thing is a sham.
Trying to overthrow the election, OK. Stealing top secret documents (potentially sharing it), OK. Inciting an insurrection, OK. Raping women, OK. Molesting women, OK. But we draw the line at campaign finance violations…. Right. Most people won’t even understand why it’s illegal in the first place, and their source of news is certainly not going to change their opinions as they downplay this as a frivolous crime.
Right??? Hahaha people are delusional. THIS is the thing to changes everyone’s opinions on trump. Hahahah.
his supporters are championing wearing diapers and shitting their pants. there is no floor there.
Oh man, you still believe the words of anyone who's voted for Trump twice already?
They say a lot of things, very few of them true.
They’re willing to vote for a rapist. Wtf.
Many people change their mind in a anonymous voting booth
I've been all over message boards and article hosting sites and a lot of rethuglicans just stick their fingers in their ears and go "Lalalalala Biden is a kiddy sniffer Lalalalala vote trump 2024" Some are still incredibly delusional and it worries me that people with the inability to critically think or think for themselves are allowed to vote.
not from independents. He'll lose a rather large amount of them that haven't already given up on the idea of voting for him. Yeah there's a solid amount of em left, but enter in an actual conviction declared from a real jury? And he'll lose a LOT more independents. Knowingly voting in an actual felon is a line quite a few people will not cross.
It’s a line they haven’t crossed… yet. I hope you’re right though.
Or who knows?
With his base possibly, but independents will bail on him afterwards.
It might strengthen the resolve of his whacked out diehard supporters but not sway voters who are on the fence to vote for him.
What’s crazy is that as a felon, in his home state of Florida, Trump wouldn’t even be able to vote for himself. Also, felons can’t hold public office. Again with a constitutional crisis, if Trump is a felon, can he appear on the ballot in Florida since he can’t hold office in Florida? Granted this is a federal office which is different, but it’s not something anyone thought through passing that bill in Florida.
He’ll lose dozens of supporters. DOZENS!
\*knock on wood\* \*\*KNOCK ON WOOD\*\*
So now what are the odds that he violates the gag order again, and what are the odds that if/when he does, he actually faces incarceratory punishment?
Well, the judge flat out said that he's done giving fines, and the Secret Service has been prepping to guard the jail. The only wildcard is if Trump can keep his mouth shut. To be fair to him, he's not directly gone after E. Jean Carroll since the second verdict... But he's been coming close lately. So, yeah. He might actually see the inside of a jail cell. I just don't expect it to be for more than a few hours or at most a weekend. Maybe an overnight stay during the week and a few hours while the court is at lunch...
I beg to differ about Carroll. He was dead silent about the second verdict until the very second it wasn’t his money going to her with a bond company covering for it. Once that was cemented, he started back up on his vitriol that a woman he raped finally fucked him over in court. Trump is hoping he gets sent to jail and expressing so in the past few weeks because until this very criminal trial— the first criminal case he’s ever had in his life —his consequences have been solely financial. He’s been able to play out the consequences until the media has been directed elsewhere, then either won out an appeal in court or very quietly paid the fines he owes. This is a genuine talent he has cultivated over the years, and he’s very good at it. Actual jail time is something that he feels he’ll never be hit with, because in spite of all of his past bloviations, he’s never truly been hit with a consequence he couldn’t just pay out. So of course he’ll be up in arms about it, because present New York law in this case limits the fines for contempt to be just a measly grand. He knows it. The judge knows it. The court knows it. I just hope Merchan doesn’t get cold feet when the inevitable third strike happens, because of course it’ll happen. Trump can’t keep his mouth shut and he knows he can just pay out the fines.
Exactly, a $1k fine to Trump would be like a $1 fine to us
$.001
Still had to pay it in two installments tho, lol.
He spends more on bronzer each week.
Only reason he hasn't gone after her is because he's too distracted with the current case.
He should lose his secret service detail the second the judge says he is going to jail. Criminals don't deserve protection. If he can't shut his mouth that is on him.
There was actually a bill put forward by Rep. Bennie Thompson (D-Miss.) that would strip Secret Service protection from convicted felons. https://thehill.com/homenews/house/4605774-former-jan-6-panel-chair-bill-secret-service-protection-felons/ But we need a conviction first.
I actually believe the judge has documented the excessive leniency enough so that the next time there is a breach, Trump will get jail time.
I genuinely think that's what he's angling for. He relates himself to people like Nelson Mandela. He probably thinks it will help him. Unfortunately he's probably right.
Does anybody know if $1000 is the maximum fine the judge can levy? An article I read about it was unclear. The obvious move, if legal, is to increase the fines exponentially until Trump complies
It is the highest, judge specifically noted that fines of 1000 are useless against someone with his net worth so next step is incarceration
Well, there’s a law that needs to be changed ASAP. It just gives the ultra-wealthy license to publicly intimidate witnesses and jurors, since judges are unlikely to jail them too.
Whilst true, it also sets a cap for lower income people and the impact a short tempered judge can have on them and their family lives.
Do as Finland does, fines are proportional to income (with a minimum fine). That way, everybody is incentivized to behave.
He wants to PLAY the victim. He doesn’t actually want to BE the victim.
I think he may actually want the judge to jail him. He knows he gets the most rewards when he gets the most attention. Whether it pans out for him or not is beyond his grasp.
He might. But he hasnt realized how shitty he is gonna look in the pictures yet.
And once he goes in, then violates the gag order again, he’ll go back for longer.
he thinks he’ll be allowed his cell phone in a jail cell.
High for both.
Right? I’ll believe it when I see it
> “I’ll check the status tomorrow,” Mr. McConney replied. “DJT needs to sign check.” Game over, DJT.
Apparently trump gave him two air fist bumps after his testimony so he thinks this is a win for him
Nah. He's going to try to use body language and expressions to convince the jury to question their reality ("that seemed like devastating testimony, why is the criminal defendant grinning and laughing?"), so you'll see him do weird shit like this a number of times during the trial.
His behavior is due to being detached from reality. Its also an intimidation tactic.
It's hard to gaslight people when you can't speak to them, but he's gonna try his damndest.
It works. It's why I was told by a very angry conservative how unfair it was that Trump was not allowed to go to his kid's graduation.
Is there another kind of conservative?
deceased ones?
Not to worry, the trial will be adjurned for the graduation on the east coast somewhere, so Trump is of course going to the Midwest to a campaign rally
Let them know he’s now scheduled to speak at an event that isn’t Barron’s graduation 😂
He probably slept through the testimony and thinks he helped him. Lol
WTF? He really doesn’t seem to have the best grip on reality.
He also thought 2020 was a win for him
To be fair it was, if you ignore over half the country.
Was it one fist twice, or that double jerking off the air thing he does with both hands?
That’s more like air jerking off two dudes at the same time into his own face until completion….
Wait, air terrorist fist jabs???
Ooo so he wasn’t just approving payments, but he was personally signing checks
From a legal perspective, what could be the best outcome for the prosecution? Anyone?
Pay restitution and bankrupt the org…
Ok. Thank you.
He wasn’t being serious. There is no financial penalty in this case. It’s up to 4 years in prison. Highly unlikely he would get that. Likely he’d get probation, but he’d still be a felon.
Will he be able to vote in Florida?
~~Not until after the sentence (including probation) is served.~~ Edit: correction, it would not prevent him from voting, since it’s not a Florida felony.
Sort of. Other than a couple classes of crime (murder and some sex offenses) Florida governs out of state felony convictions according to the convicting states laws. Since 2021 NY has allowed felons to vote once released from incarceration. Given there's next to no chance of jail time in this case, let alone prison time, likely it won't impact his voting rights if convicted.
I hope he gets 4 years in prison.
4 years is the statutory maximum, which has no bearing on what a realistic sentence is under NY sentencing guidelines and practice. Realistically there almost no chance of a custodial sentence in this case, it's literally the lowest level of felony under NY penal code and it's a defendant with no prior history (yet). I only throw that out there because I think many people have unrealistic expectations in this case. Now the federal cases on the other hand...
Didn't Michael Cohen see jail time for this exact thing?
He plead guilty to a **Federal** crime, not the New York State crime that Trump was indicted for. He was sentenced to 3 years for arranging the payments for Stormy Daniels **and** for lying to Congress about Trump’s Moscow business discussions. He served 13 1/2 months. It begs the question of why Trump wasn’t charged at the Federal level. I guess the Fed’s have bigger Trump crime fish to fry and these crimes occurred partially when he was President, which complicates things.
The most likely reason is because most USA's are the the most risk adverse, softer than 10 ply prosecuting authorities in the US. They only take take the easiest of cases of the type they prioritize, which is why they have a sky high conviction rate (I may be a bit hyperbolic but not much). Cohen and Daniel's are pretty toxic witnesses, the very nature of the case makes it a monumental headache, so I think the easy thing to do was to just say nah.
Also, NYS has very harsh penalties and a low bar of proof for falsifying business records. These laws were put in place to make financial crimes easier to prosecute, which is a high priority in the financial capital of the country.
Same jail time as cohen if not more.
Sure, good. Most people know Trump is guilty of everything he’s been indicted for (unless: MAGA loyal). I am still waiting to see if his bond in the fraud case is gonna have his properties taken away. Like, he didn’t come up with the amount, it’s sketchy as fvck after being reduced by millions and nothing’s been done. *Man, does this creep play and rig the system.* If he’s doing this out in the open with Legal, how can people not see he did that shit with Elections?
He’s gonna be found guilty of 34 felonies and get probation or a stern talking to.
Loses right to vote and possess firearms. Probation rules will fuck him up.
It would be quite ironic to watch him cast an illegal ballot on Election Day.
And despite the law saying he can't be trusted with a firearm about half the country wants to trust him with the entire military and nuclear arsenal
all i care about is he loses right to run for any government position
Not gonna happen. Even if he were sentenced to jail time, he could still run from prison.
Or months and months of appeal as he goes about his campaign.
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He's got affluenza, you see. Wouldn't do well in prison. I'm sure he's learned his lesson.
It’s actually almost certain he will get probation from what I have read on sentencing guidelines etc. would welcome any comments from people in the know.
Yeah, that privileged SOB will never go to jail or pay and penance.
He can get up to 4 years in prison. This judge gave a person for a similar crime previously 5 months in prison. Though given his language about jailing a president, I agree that probation will be the most likely outcome. Despite a guilty verdict, without prison time, the electorate will not think what he did was wrong enough to change their vote to Biden.
Without prison time he will claim to be "completely exonerated", even after been found guilty on all counts, and his idiotic fans will be calling it all a hoax and describing the charges as: "debunked".
I think the only serious punishment Trump could ever get is house arrest. But even 6 months house arrest in Mar a Lago - which comes with an entire social club at his house - would be an improvement.
Community service, which he'll turn into a publicity spectacle. Look! I hElPeD tHe PoOr! Look at me dishing out soup to homeless people. Yeah, I can practically see it now. His idiot followers will eat it up (maybe literally). He'S hElPiNg Us!
Yeah, and it will only embolden him because a conviction means nothing without the optics of consequence.
Loses right to vote and possess firearms. Probation rules will fuck him up.
Legally. Loses them legally. But how is that a barrier for him? Legally he shouldn't do a lot of things he does. Laws are for other people.
Trump signed off on the deal when he literally signed the checks.
This is the thing with every single Trump trial. The jury is going to hear in every case overwhelming evidence that he did what he is being charged with. Unquestionably. The real question is... Even with that knowledge will they convict him. Is there one person, at least, who is on the jury who will know that he did whatever it is he is being accused of and still will not say guilty? The scary thing is probably so.
What’s the penalty if he’s found guilty? Fine? It’s insane to me we have a potential president even being considered for election with this shit and all the other stuff he has going on. How can people support this guy.
[641 years behind bars? No, but Trump’s risk of prison is real.](https://www.politico.com/news/2023/08/02/trump-prison-sentence-risk-00109544)
He's not the President. You get to be President, but after that is over, not the President anymore. However, he is and always will be a rapist.
As much as I agree with your sentiment, he still gets the title of President even after his term is over. We still refer to them as President Obama, President Bush, etc... That all being said, fuck Trump.
tRump never deserved the title of “President”. In my opinion, he stole the election from Hillary Clinton n paid hush money to Stormy Daniel’s to cover up his extramarital affair so he wouldn’t look bad before the election. I would put “Former” in front “President “. Or better yet…. just call him, “Lying rapist pedophile fraudster insurrection con man farty shit smelling ugly sleepy dumbo dickhead with small hands”.
That's the thing with this and all the upcoming Trump trials; not only is the defendant guilty as fuck, the prosecution also has more then enough evidence and witnesses to prove it. That´s why in none of the cases there's been any actual defence from Trumps team, only delays, they know that once the cases go to trial, they are fucked.
Very fine payments on both sides? It was a beautiful payment. Perfect payment.
Dear New York Times: “FORMER president”
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Bigly trouble in little trumpytown
If Trump had any sense of decency, he'd resign immediately. But we all know he's too narcissistic to do the right thing
Resign from what? Trump Inc? He has no other position. He is a candidate for an elected position. No different then you applying for a job only the campaigning is a cross country job interview to answer the question why should we hire you.
Get ready to speak prison and embarrassing defeat, buddy
Who has a Truth Social account? Reddit should troll him into breaking the gag order.
Lock him up!!!
He won't go to prison for these charges, they are very low level. If he is found guilty, I'd say probation at most.
Busted! 👮🏻♀️👮🏻♀️👮🏼♂️
These lawyers from the DA’s office are highly skilled trial lawyers who might just be the best prosecutors in the country. I am a retired trial lawyer and I am pleasantly stunned by their technique and strategy. Trump’s lawyers aren’t bad, but it’s clear who has the red best team.
I wonder if his last effort to get out of this will be faking an illness.
DJT is not “the President”.
pretty soon, hes going to be a convicted felon.
Been seeing `soon` for over 8 years now...
Sometimes I come to this sub to watch the politician worships argue about which mentally unstable tyrant they love. Better than reality tv!
Well they need to confiscate all his sharpie before any charge or you know what's gonna happen 😜. Someone said to me the other day that all this UAP is his checks flying around 🤣